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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

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Speaker 2: Let's break down the presidential debate from last night with

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Speaker 2: Vivek Ramaswami, a former Republican candidate himself. He joins me

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Speaker 2: now from Atlanta. Mister Ramaswami, good morning to you this

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Speaker 2: Morningberg Technology. We're a technology show, and I've wanted to

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Speaker 2: ask you to come on following the debate because of

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Speaker 2: your background, because of the reporting of your relationship with

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Speaker 2: former President Trump and the Trump campaign team. But we

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Speaker 2: should talk about last night, So the floor is yours.

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Speaker 2: Your reaction to that debate.

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Speaker 3: Well, look, I was in Atlanta last night, got back

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Speaker 3: to my home in Columbus today, and after sleeping on it,

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Speaker 3: my conclusion is the same as what we saw last night,

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Speaker 3: which is this was sad for the United States of

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Speaker 3: America to see the current President, Joe Biden in the

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Speaker 3: mental state that he is actually in.

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Speaker 4: There was a lot of joking.

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Speaker 3: About drug testing or were they going to drug him up?

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Speaker 3: It looked more like he had a lobotomy, and I

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Speaker 3: just think that that's a sad thing, speaking as an

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Speaker 3: American regardles of partisanship, when you think about the country

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Speaker 3: that has produced the greatness of innovation and the leaders

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Speaker 3: leading companies in the private sector. To see the person

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Speaker 3: who's leading the federal government himself be as absent as

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Speaker 3: he was yesterday, I think is really a damning indictment

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Speaker 3: of the.

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Speaker 4: Modern Democratic Party the president.

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Speaker 2: Yep, mister Ramswami, may I just jump in, and it's

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Speaker 2: interesting that that you ran as as a president's candidate

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Speaker 2: for the Republican Party. You you're representing former President Trump,

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Speaker 2: but you started by speaking about President Biden's performance.

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Speaker 1: Many are frustrated this morning.

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Speaker 2: That we actually didn't hear any answers to the questions

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Speaker 2: posed to former President Trump about what he would do

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Speaker 2: if re elected, what some of his policy platforms were.

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Speaker 2: What did you learn about what former President Trump might

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Speaker 2: do were he to be re elected to the White House.

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Speaker 3: Well, he asked me about my impressions, and I think

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Speaker 3: the number one most salient thing about the debate for

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Speaker 3: anybody who watched it was in need the surprise of

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Speaker 3: Biden's performance, which is why I can't on it in

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Speaker 3: response to your question, But I agree with you it's

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Speaker 3: much more productive to talk about the policy vision of

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Speaker 3: the man who's likely to be the next president, which

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Speaker 3: is Donald Trump, and I think one of the things

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Speaker 3: we took away from yesterday was talking about the revival

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Speaker 3: of American success and a focus on the economy. The

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Speaker 3: fact of the matter is President Trump, I think demonstrated

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Speaker 3: that despite being a member of a different economic class

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Speaker 3: than most Americans, is a billionaire, he is still somebody

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Speaker 3: who understands prices have gone up but wages have remained flat.

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Speaker 3: And I think that part really landed. I wish the

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Speaker 3: debate had gone into greater depth on policy. Frankly, if

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Speaker 3: Biden had shown up with greater mental acuity, we might

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Speaker 3: have had that opportunity. In many cases, the things he

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Speaker 3: said were incoherent. That stopped that debate for me as

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Speaker 3: useful as it could. But what do we learned last

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Speaker 3: night and then the combination of recent speeches that President

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Speaker 3: Trump has given. Economic growth is a core objective for

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump. That's not a left leaning message or right

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Speaker 3: leaning message. Economic growth is an inherent and worthy objective.

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Speaker 3: From bringing down the tax burden to the regulatory burden,

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Speaker 3: to drilling for oil and natural gas and increasing the

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Speaker 3: supply of energy to bring down costs, those are core

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Speaker 3: issues that I think matter not only to business owners,

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Speaker 3: and economically minded voters. It's a factor that matters to

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Speaker 3: all voters. And that was one of the more powerful

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Speaker 3: things that came out of last night was the discussion

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Speaker 3: about the economy and the economic vision for the.

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Speaker 4: Next four years.

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Speaker 2: Mister ramswamme, may I just point out what you said

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Speaker 2: on prices and also wage inflation. You said prices have

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Speaker 2: gone up, what wages have remained flat? That is no

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Speaker 2: longer true if you look today. We saw inflation in

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Speaker 2: May down fractionally, almost comman to be, but wages were

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Speaker 2: up seven tenths of a percent. I just want to

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Speaker 2: get the latest dates to me out.

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Speaker 3: Let me just comment on that in direct response to

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Speaker 3: so your numbers, guy, I like that, as you well know.

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Speaker 4: I believe you well know.

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Speaker 3: Inflation is accumulative, right, So that is the inflation rate.

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Speaker 3: But inflation over the course of the last several years,

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Speaker 3: you want to look at actual mini consumer goods and

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Speaker 3: products are up by over fifty percent since the.

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Speaker 4: Time Biden took office. How much does a cart and

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Speaker 4: a egg cost, how much does a car cost? How

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Speaker 4: much is your electric bill? Those are undoubtedly higher than

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Speaker 4: when Joe Biden took office.

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Speaker 3: And it is a hard fact that we just have

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Speaker 3: not gone up at the same rate. So I don't

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Speaker 3: want to play this verbal jiu jitsu of the last

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Speaker 3: month's numbers. If you want to get into facts, I'm

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Speaker 3: all in favor of it. Those are the hard, indisputable facts,

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Speaker 3: and we don't have to argue the facts because most

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Speaker 3: Americans who pay those bills already have a deep understanding

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Speaker 3: of that, and I do think that that is going

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Speaker 3: to be a guiding force in what we see this November.

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Speaker 2: Mister Ramasami, you and I both agreed on one thing,

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Speaker 2: which is that we will talk about technology and policy

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Speaker 2: from it. From a technology standpoint, you mentioned energy and

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Speaker 2: oil in particular. One of the things that I reported

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Speaker 2: was that you act as almost an intermediary between former

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Speaker 2: President Trump and Elon Musk, and it seems as if

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Speaker 2: the former president in Elon Musk are now speaking, or

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Speaker 2: at least have spoken. Where do you see them finding

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Speaker 2: middle ground and an influence if former President Trump were

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Speaker 2: to return to the White House.

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Speaker 3: I respect the two of them individually, both as people

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Speaker 3: who have succeeded in this country through the private sector.

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Speaker 3: I think we all share a belief, all three of us,

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Speaker 3: that we need more of those voices in American politics

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Speaker 3: driving change, not as professional politicians, but people who look

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Speaker 3: at political problems through the lens of an entrepreneur and

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Speaker 3: a business leader objectively.

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Speaker 4: And so I think that.

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Speaker 3: That's a common cause that I would say is form

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Speaker 3: my basis for the friendship with both of them.

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Speaker 4: The reality is one.

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Speaker 3: Of the things that we're all rooting for as well

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Speaker 3: is not only an economic revitalization of the US, but

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Speaker 3: a revitalization of innovation in the United States of America.

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Speaker 3: I think we have seen a decline in the rate

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Speaker 3: of innovation in the US, but that is ultimately our

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Speaker 3: competitive advantage in the end is the ultimate innovation and

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Speaker 3: the innovative spark of starting the greatest companies known to mankind,

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Speaker 3: generally here in the United States, which then has collateral

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Speaker 3: benefits of creating jobs and creating wealth. But it's also

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Speaker 3: the founding spark of American exceptionalism. Right Our founding fathers

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Speaker 3: were the likes of Time Thomas Jefferson, who not only

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Speaker 3: wrote the Declaration of Independence, he also invented the swivel

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Speaker 3: chair and the polygraph test.

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Speaker 4: Benjamin Franklin.

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Speaker 3: I think of Elon Musk as a modern Benjamin Franklin

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Speaker 3: type of figure invented the lightning rod and the Franklin stove.

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Speaker 3: Yet these were also the people who led the country

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Speaker 3: politically and set it into motion. So I think we

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Speaker 3: have a chance to revive that seventeen seventy six kind

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Speaker 3: of spirit. And I think there's a role for a

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Speaker 3: modern Washington, a modern Jefferson, a modern Benjamin Franklin. I

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Speaker 3: think in many ways, Donald Trump is stepping up to

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Speaker 3: be the modern George Washington of our time. Elon Musk

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Speaker 3: reminds me of the Benjamin Franklins of their day, and

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Speaker 3: so I think we found different common cause in our

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Speaker 3: love of this country to revitalize that founding spirit, even

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Speaker 3: though each of us have had our own successes separately

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Speaker 3: in the private sector.

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Speaker 4: And I'm biased, but I'm of.

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Speaker 3: The view that we need actually more of those people

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Speaker 3: stepping up to play different roles in defining the future

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Speaker 3: of our politics in America.

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Speaker 2: Mister Ramswami, can I ask, just very quickly, as a

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Speaker 2: matter of checking, have you spoken to the former president

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Speaker 2: since last night?

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Speaker 4: I haven't spoken to him since last night. No.

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Speaker 2: The reason I ask is about your role with him

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Speaker 2: directly and also his team you know, one of the

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Speaker 2: areas of reporting of focuses been discussions you may have

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Speaker 2: had with him around crypto and the role that crypto

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Speaker 2: may play if former President Trump returned to the White House.

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Speaker 2: Could you tell me a bit about that and the

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Speaker 2: conversations that you've had.

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Speaker 3: Some of that started actually after I left the race.

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Speaker 3: I left the race after the Iowa caucus, but before

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Speaker 3: the New Hampshire primary, and I could tell you one

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Speaker 3: part that was sort of totally public on that stage

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Speaker 3: was in New Hampshire, I began my conversations with Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump about why in my campaign I had been opposed

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Speaker 3: to a central bank digital currency as CBDC. And one

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Speaker 3: of the things that impressed me about President Trump was

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Speaker 3: this intellectual curiosity about that issue. I've met a lot

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Speaker 3: of politicians, including Republicans, who have heard the vague acronyms CBDC,

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Speaker 3: but don't know the first thing about what it actually means,

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Speaker 3: but they pretend like they do. Donald Trump was the

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Speaker 3: opposite of that. He actually said, what the heck is that?

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Speaker 3: Tell me what it is? And then he asked, what

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Speaker 3: are the best arguments for why they're actually supporting it?

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Speaker 3: And I thought that was a mark of a good

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Speaker 3: leader who wanted to understand the best arguments for the

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Speaker 3: other side, and later on he said it from the

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Speaker 3: campaign stage and from an event, So I feel comfortable

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Speaker 3: sharing this part of it where he came out then

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Speaker 3: after a thoughtful consideration, after careful study of the issue

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Speaker 3: of his opposition to a central bank digital currency, and

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Speaker 3: he explained why.

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Speaker 4: It's a threat to liberty.

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Speaker 3: The flip side of that is why you might favor

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Speaker 3: decentralization and alternative options from people just staying tethered to

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Speaker 3: the dollar of holding the Fed accountable by having other

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Speaker 3: options in.

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Speaker 4: The marketplace of alternative currencies.

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Speaker 3: So I think there's been a number of productive conversations

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Speaker 3: he and I have had. And one of the things

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Speaker 3: that I look at this for is it's not a sector.

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Speaker 4: I don't look at cryptocurrency as a sector.

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Speaker 3: To the contrary, I look at the first principles of

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Speaker 3: the United States of America, founded on competition and choice

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Speaker 3: and financial freedom, and I think those principles are certainly

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Speaker 3: what motivated my interest in these issues in the campaign,

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Speaker 3: and I think that's what's also helped a lot of

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Speaker 3: my conversations with the President Trump. Is let's start with

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Speaker 3: first principle, what's right for America, not what's good for

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Speaker 3: one sector or another. But then let's adopt the kinds

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Speaker 3: of policies that actually allow America to remain the beachhead

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Speaker 3: of innovation rather than playing from behind.

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Speaker 2: Mister Ramaswami, just one item on the idea. The president

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Speaker 2: has to block anything or anyone from doing CBDC. I

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Speaker 2: think the FED has said clearly many times that it's

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Speaker 2: not going to introduce one unless mandated by Congress. Now

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Speaker 2: that's the Fed's position on that. I want a little

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Speaker 2: bit about artificial and just.

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Speaker 3: Since we're closing the loop on that, Janet Yellen has

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Speaker 3: certainly stood for her advocacy in the executive branch, off

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Speaker 3: in sponsors legislation that goes through Congress.

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Speaker 4: That's other things work in Washington, DC.

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Speaker 3: But I do think it's good to have a president,

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Speaker 3: one way or another that's clear about his position, and

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Speaker 3: I think that Donald Trump adopted the right position in

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Speaker 3: his clarity.

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Speaker 2: I would like to talk about artificial intelligence, and I

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Speaker 2: appreciate that this was not a question posed last night,

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Speaker 2: but any of the policy questions posed weren't really answered

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Speaker 2: by either participant. But when former President Trump was in

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Speaker 2: We weren't talking about the idea of an existential threat

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Speaker 2: from a large language model in the many hundreds of

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Speaker 2: billions of parameters. We weren't talking about the need to

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Speaker 2: regulate AI. So former President Trump doesn't have the experience

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Speaker 2: of that. But do you think that he has the

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Speaker 2: sort of academic study enough or he's thought about it

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Speaker 2: because going into office if he were to regain the

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Speaker 2: White House would be an issue to consider.

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Speaker 3: I do wish this had been a topic both of

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Speaker 3: that debate and even in the Republican primary debates, where

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Speaker 3: this issue did not come up once as well, even

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Speaker 3: though I suggested it many times. It's an important issue

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Speaker 3: for the future, and it falls outside of traditional partisan boundaries, So.

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Speaker 4: I'm glad you're bringing it up.

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Speaker 3: Is President Trump going to claim to be a domain

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Speaker 3: expert in AI or something that he's not a domain

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Speaker 3: expert in knowing that's.

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Speaker 4: What I love about him. But I think he's going

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Speaker 4: to be able.

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Speaker 3: To attrack the best minds around him to set rational

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Speaker 3: policy that at once allows the US to be a

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Speaker 3: leader in innovation while at the same time acknowledging a

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Speaker 3: different kind of risk than we've faced in the past

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Speaker 3: from different types of generative AI.

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Speaker 4: Personally, one of the things that I think.

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Speaker 3: Makes a lot of sense as a first step rather

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Speaker 3: than creating some sort of central government bureaucracy to handle this,

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Speaker 3: is just treat it the same way you treat other sectors,

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Speaker 3: just in the same way that you're a chemical's manufacturer

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Speaker 3: and you can't dump in somebody else's river.

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Speaker 4: If you're the developer of a.

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Speaker 3: Protocol or an algorithm that has unpredictable but nonetheless realized

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Speaker 3: negative effects, that you're liable for those effects. Basic principles

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Speaker 3: of the law that we already use elsewhere, but to

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Speaker 3: use them in this new domain as well.

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Speaker 4: And what I have seen from.

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Speaker 3: President Trump, it's the same question that came up even

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Speaker 3: in the last topic we discussed, is a level of

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Speaker 3: intellectual curiosity somebody who has been an executive, somebody who,

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Speaker 3: unlike Joe Biden frankly, from seeing what we saw last night,

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Speaker 3: is still intellectually with it enough to be able to

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Speaker 3: go deep on the details, attract the best people, and

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Speaker 3: make the rational policy decision. Not in an ideological or

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Speaker 3: ideologue driven manner when it comes to AI, but in

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Speaker 3: a manner of this it's driven by our actual understanding

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Speaker 3: of the facts, and so I do have confidence in

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Speaker 3: his ability to lead.

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Speaker 2: Here, mister Ramaswami, I'm sorry to instruct you a shorter time,

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Speaker 2: and I want to make the most of it. Have

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Speaker 2: you been asked to submit documentation for vetting for a

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Speaker 2: potential cabinet position in the event of a Trump white House.

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Speaker 4: We've got a lot of conversations about the future.

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Speaker 3: I have not been asked to be the vice president,

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Speaker 3: but whatever it is, I'm going to look at what

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Speaker 3: maximizes impact on the country and how we make sure

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Speaker 3: that second Trump term is as good as it possibly

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Speaker 3: can be. And I am hopeful that we're going to

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Speaker 3: see the strongest ticket not just of this century, but

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Speaker 3: of my lifetime. And I think after last night, we

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Speaker 3: have a unique opportunity in this country.

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Speaker 4: For this not to just be a fifty point one election.

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Speaker 3: We've had a lot of thin margin, thin ice elections.

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Speaker 3: This could be a Reagan nineteen eighty nineteen eighty four

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Speaker 3: style landslide, remixing minorities, Hispanics, Blacks, young people, creating a

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Speaker 3: new coalition in this country that's pro American and goes

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Speaker 3: beyond the boundaries of the traditional Republican Party wall streams

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Speaker 3: from those America First principles that Trump ran on.

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Speaker 1: So that's what I'm rooting for. I appreciate that answer.

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Speaker 2: I am out of time, but I need to ask

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Speaker 2: you about BuzzFeed, but also the idea I'm being told

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Speaker 2: over and over your interests in a media company something

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Speaker 2: like a vice. You know you've been buying up BuzzFeed shares.

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Speaker 2: It's reported your statement, what happens? What are you aiming

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Speaker 2: to do here?

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Speaker 3: Well, look, I'm now the second largest Class A shareholder

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Speaker 3: at BuzzFeed. I've been very public in my letter that

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Speaker 3: this is a company that has struggled and failed for

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Speaker 3: reasons that I still think are fixable.

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Speaker 4: A lot of people know what BuzzFeed is.

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Speaker 3: They don't know what the what the brand actually stands for,

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Speaker 3: and I think they have a historic opportunity to do

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Speaker 3: what many in the mainstream media have an opportunity to do,

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Speaker 3: build a brand centered on trust and the pursuit of

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Speaker 3: truth by saying that you know what we platform all

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Speaker 3: voices left right, doesn't matter across the cultural spectrum, and

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Speaker 3: use that to define a coherent and powerful brand that

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Speaker 3: I think audiences are hungry for, especially of younger audiences

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Speaker 3: today that are sick and tired of yesterday's legacy, but

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Speaker 3: want authenticity, want to trust content creators.

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Speaker 4: So I've given in the context.

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Speaker 3: Of the letter that I sent to their board, I've

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Speaker 3: also proposed three directors.

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Speaker 1: Mister Rames joined the board, a.

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Speaker 4: Direction strategy that I hope will create.

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Speaker 3: The value of a company that sadly has I'm sorry

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Speaker 3: to cut you off.

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Speaker 1: We are out of time. Did that, Ramaswami? Thank you.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg