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Speaker 1: So I was in college, but it was the summer

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Speaker 1: of my sophomore year or freshman year, and I had

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Speaker 1: gone to a BBD concert and met Jeff Dyson, who

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Speaker 1: was one of the new editions. He had long time

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Speaker 1: been a new addition bodyguard. He was on the road

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Speaker 1: with BBD.

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Speaker 2: Last time on waiting for Impact. My friend Scott and

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Speaker 2: I found out we were one degree of separation closer

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Speaker 2: to sudden impact than we ever knew we were. We

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Speaker 2: have a friend who was a recording artist in Michael Bivens'

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Speaker 2: East Coast family and you know her too. It's twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty one Emmy nominee if that's Nicole Brown.

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Speaker 1: And I told him, I say, I want to sing

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Speaker 1: for Michael bibbns. Can you please let me backstage?

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Speaker 2: Like me in nineteen ninety one, if that had big dreams,

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Speaker 2: but unlike me, she knew how to manifest them.

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Speaker 1: And he was like, I cannot let you backstage, but

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Speaker 1: I can tell you that they're staying at the Sheridan

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Speaker 1: in Cauiahaga Falls. So if you happen to show up,

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Speaker 1: you know at the Sheridan. You didn't hear it from me.

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Speaker 1: To this day, I know Jeff. Now you know Jeff

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Speaker 1: and our friends now. And to this day he says

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Speaker 1: he doesn't know why he did it. He was just like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know something about you. Just felt like I was

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Speaker 1: supposed to help you.

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Speaker 2: Evett loved Michael Biffins, She loved New Addition, she loved

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Speaker 2: Belle Bivdevaux, and she loved to sing. So she found

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Speaker 2: Michael Bivens and she sang.

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Speaker 1: And so I went to that hotel, stayed in the

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Speaker 1: lobby until four o'clock in the morning when BBD came

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Speaker 1: to the hotel and I followed Michael Bibbins around and

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Speaker 1: I was like, mister Bifman's massing for you, mister Biman's

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Speaker 1: massing for you, mister Bimin's messing for you.

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Speaker 3: And then finally he was like, oh gosh, like just sing.

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Speaker 4: He was mad.

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Speaker 3: I was mad, like it had been at an opus

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Speaker 3: to get to this moment.

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Speaker 2: That's the thing about taking big swings. Sometimes they're mortifying,

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Speaker 2: but sometimes they actually work.

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Speaker 1: He finally let me sing for him and asked for

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Speaker 1: my number, and then called me the next day and

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Speaker 1: invited me to be a part of the East Closet family.

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Speaker 2: We're going to talk to a vete, Nicole Brown, about

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Speaker 2: her time in the Coast Family, about what it was

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Speaker 2: like to wait for your moment in the spotlight as

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Speaker 2: a singer, and about what you do when it never comes,

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Speaker 2: And we're going to find out what she knows about

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Speaker 2: sudden Impact.

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Speaker 5: Also, we'll talk to Karen Kilgareth. She and I were

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Speaker 5: leading more or less the.

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Speaker 2: Same life back in nineteen ninety one, So we're going

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Speaker 2: to talk about what she learned that got her to

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Speaker 2: where she is now. And we're going to talk about

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Speaker 2: another big thing we have in common, a pivotal career

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Speaker 2: moment that involves losing a big contest on national TV.

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Speaker 2: This is Waiting for Impact, a Dave Holmes passion project.

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Speaker 2: So here's where we left off. As I began my

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Speaker 2: search for Sudden Impact, my friend and fellow pop culture

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Speaker 2: obsessive Scott Gimple, found a nineteen ninety two music video

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Speaker 2: from the East Coast Family, a group of pop, R

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Speaker 2: and B and hip hop artists signed by Michael Bivens

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Speaker 2: to his record label biv ten, a subsidiary of Motown.

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Speaker 2: The song and video are called one four All four

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Speaker 2: to one. By the way, the title of that song

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Speaker 2: never gets any easier to say. You always have to

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Speaker 2: kind of prepare your mouth, but it is what we

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Speaker 2: would now call a posse track. There are rap moments

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Speaker 2: from Mark Finesse, from two young kids called ten ten

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Speaker 2: who have their suspenders on backwards a little like the

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Speaker 2: other young rap duo of the time, Chris Cross, probably

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Speaker 2: a coincidence, and from mc brains who would go on

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Speaker 2: to have a top forty hit later in nineteen ninety

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Speaker 2: two called Uchi Couci. There are moments that are sung

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Speaker 2: by a big frat boy looking guy named Hayden with

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Speaker 2: a sport coat slung over his shoulder, and by a

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Speaker 2: group called White Guys whytgi Ze who look a little

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Speaker 2: like Sudden Impact. And then there's a young woman with

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Speaker 2: a clear and beautiful voice and a warm and familiar smile.

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Speaker 2: She goes by the single name Yvette Vete Nicole Brown Sunday.

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Speaker 4: I can't stress you just how my job just dropped.

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Speaker 2: My friend Scott, who we met in the last episode,

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Speaker 2: is the chief content officer for the Walking Dead universe,

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Speaker 2: and a Vett is a Walking Dead super fan. Vette

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Speaker 2: and Scott, as we learned, are real friends in real life.

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Speaker 2: But this is a part of her story that he

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Speaker 2: didn't know anything about. And we now have the connection

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Speaker 2: to the East Coast family and maybe sudden impact that

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Speaker 2: we've been looking for a backstage pass, if you will.

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Speaker 2: So I asked Scott to reach out to a vet

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Speaker 2: to see if she'd be interested in opening up about

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Speaker 2: her life in the East Coast family. And while we

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Speaker 2: waited for an answer, I wanted to go a little

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Speaker 2: bit deeper into the early nineties and what life was

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Speaker 2: like for a young dreamer back then. And I know

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Speaker 2: someone who I bet has some very good insights. What

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Speaker 2: was Karen's nineteen ninety one esthetic talk?

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Speaker 5: What's you wearing.

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Speaker 6: At Jesus H, I'll tell you, I'll tell you it's

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Speaker 6: not good news.

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Speaker 2: That is Karen Kilgareff. She's a comedian, a writer, the

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Speaker 2: co host of My Favorite Murder, and the co founder

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Speaker 2: of Exactly Right, the network i'm doing this podcast on.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety one, Karen was working a look.

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Speaker 6: Because I was out of the house and I could so.

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Speaker 6: First of all, I died my hair black, like the

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Speaker 6: second I got a chance to. That was incredibly like invigorating,

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Speaker 6: and like, you know, I know what I want.

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Speaker 4: I dyed my hair black. I was pale as a ghost.

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Speaker 2: Karen's a friend of mine now, but in nineteen ninety

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Speaker 2: one we were strangers leading very similar lives.

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Speaker 6: I started working at the Gap, and that really, that

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Speaker 6: felt bad, That felt real goad.

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Speaker 5: Again, we're on parallel tracks.

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Speaker 4: Did you work at that?

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Speaker 5: I did? I ever the winner of Navy and White Cap?

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Speaker 5: I was there. What is white cap? I asked, I

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Speaker 5: said white. It's just a different word for white.

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Speaker 6: It's a way to say white and really set yourself apart.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety one, in separate malls, in separate cities,

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Speaker 2: two thousand miles away from each other, Karen and I

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Speaker 2: were doing the same thing, suffering through eight hour shifts,

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Speaker 2: pushing pocket t shirts and high waisted jeans, listening to

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Speaker 2: four or five spins per day of that corporate mixtape,

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Speaker 2: dreaming about the lives and careers we would have someday,

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Speaker 2: lives and careers we couldn't even picture because they didn't

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Speaker 2: even really exist yet. Back then, we were on the outside,

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Speaker 2: with our noses pressed up against the glass. Right now,

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Speaker 2: Karen is a big deal, like few other people I know.

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Speaker 2: She went out and got her life. But in nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety one. We were both very busy daydreaming about what

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Speaker 2: our lives in the future could look like, and we

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Speaker 2: were both hard at work fucking up our lives in

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Speaker 2: the present.

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Speaker 5: Who was Karen Kilgareth in the summer of nineteen ninety.

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Speaker 4: One, Oh god, well, I just turned twenty one.

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Speaker 5: Oh boy.

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Speaker 6: I was living in Sacramento at the time. I had

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Speaker 6: flunked out of Sacramento State University.

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Speaker 4: Congratulations, thank you so much. Not easy to do.

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Speaker 6: Took medication, and it took a real know how and perseverance.

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Speaker 4: To be asked to leave a state school.

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Speaker 6: That was basically took all comers and didn't give a shit.

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Speaker 5: Now, once again Karen and I were leading parallel lives there.

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Speaker 5: We'll get into that shortly.

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Speaker 2: But in order to give her life some direction and

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Speaker 2: stop feeling bad about failing out of school, Karen tried

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Speaker 2: something new.

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Speaker 6: The good part about this era was just before it,

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Speaker 6: when I was twenty, I started doing stand up comedy

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Speaker 6: as a desperate move to stop being such a loser

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Speaker 6: who had flugged out of school and just had and

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Speaker 6: basically was kind of going nowhere in the Central Valley.

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Speaker 6: So I think by the time my twenty first birthday

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Speaker 6: rolled around, I had felt that I had actually begun

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Speaker 6: on my path toward my dream, which was always kind

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Speaker 6: of a secret, Like I really knew I wanted to

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Speaker 6: be a stand up comedian for a long time, but

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Speaker 6: I I just didn't believe I would ever do it.

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Speaker 6: And then this kind of amazing combination of good and

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Speaker 6: bad things happened, and then I.

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Speaker 4: Got to start.

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Speaker 2: Karen transferred to Sacramento City College, where she met some

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Speaker 2: cool artsy kids from the theater department. Can't you just

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Speaker 2: see them? Her new friends were more edgy and mature.

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Speaker 2: It was a new, better support system and like any

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Speaker 2: good nineties arty kids, we have to imagine them smoking

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Speaker 2: clothes at night.

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Speaker 5: She's beginning to do stand up, but in the daytime

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Speaker 5: it's the gap.

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Speaker 4: There is an oppressive feeling.

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Speaker 6: I used to get in the middle of like an

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Speaker 6: eight hour shift, you know, the mixtape that would play

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Speaker 6: and it would be on like the fourth cycle, where

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Speaker 6: I You'd just be going a little bit crazy and

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Speaker 6: I would be standing there kind of staring at like

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Speaker 6: the fluorescent lights, going how much longer are you going

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Speaker 6: to do this?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 4: Is this going to be the rest of your.

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Speaker 6: Life, because because there's part of you that was at

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Speaker 6: least brave enough to get on that stage until of

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Speaker 6: what are now some of the worst jokes of all time.

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Speaker 6: But you know, like I did have that leg up

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Speaker 6: that that I had done. So there was a little

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Speaker 6: bit in me that was like, but I think I

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Speaker 6: can do something. I don't think I should have to

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Speaker 6: work at the gap for the rest of my life.

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Speaker 6: But then there was parts of some of the time

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Speaker 6: when I was there where I was just like, I

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Speaker 6: can't breathe, and I'm going to be here forever.

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Speaker 2: I know that, feeling extremely well, and I remember that

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Speaker 2: what I wanted from life back then was vague. I

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Speaker 2: wanted to express myself, make a mark on the world somehow.

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Speaker 2: I wonder what did she want back then?

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Speaker 6: I think fame the idea, the made up childhood idea

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Speaker 6: of what fame is and what and what all that

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Speaker 6: kind of glory would be.

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Speaker 5: What is that child version of fame.

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Speaker 6: I think it's like it's like entering anywhere through double

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Speaker 6: doors and like putting your hands out in front of

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Speaker 6: me is literally like the It's kind of that kind

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Speaker 6: of like as if you'd go into restaurants that only

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Speaker 6: had double doors and do like hello everyone.

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Speaker 4: There was just here.

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Speaker 6: Oh h yes, it's me, I'm here waving as you

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Speaker 6: eat dinner kind of idea. I think that was that

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Speaker 6: was part of it, but I do think it was

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Speaker 6: holding my own with men who do comedy.

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Speaker 2: Karen was learning stand up, finding her place in the

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Speaker 2: Bay Area comedy scene, looking for clues.

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Speaker 6: The improv was my first one where I got on stage,

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Speaker 6: so it was kind of like the closest one to

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Speaker 6: my heart, and it felt so because it was one

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Speaker 6: of those clubs that was downstairs, so it was really

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Speaker 6: like cellar feeling, which the you know, all the walls

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Speaker 6: were painted black.

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Speaker 4: You could only I could see one top.

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Speaker 6: Matt, the bartender, was really tall and he had like

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Speaker 6: bleach blonde hair, so I would focus on watching his

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Speaker 6: head move during my sets to know whether or not

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Speaker 6: I was doing good. So if he was like doing

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Speaker 6: head bobbing, like laughing, I was like, all right, so

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Speaker 6: I'm fine. Like you know, there's there's all these kind

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Speaker 6: of images in my brain that are seared there forever

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Speaker 6: of how I'm going to do this thing that's really

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Speaker 6: hard and incredibly frightening and make it work. So those

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Speaker 6: magical things are happening to me at night, and then

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Speaker 6: at eleven am, I'd have to show up and fold

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Speaker 6: down a sweater wall or whatever and go back to

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Speaker 6: just being the person that's trying to sell you socks

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Speaker 6: along with your three T shirts. And it was just

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Speaker 6: I was very indignant about the fact that I had

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Speaker 6: to work there, but that also it was such a

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Speaker 6: corporate It was so easy to do things wrong at

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Speaker 6: the Gap. I was wrong all the time. I was

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Speaker 6: always doing it wrong.

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Speaker 5: You know there is one way to fold a pocket too.

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Speaker 4: For real. Yeah, they'll check it.

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Speaker 2: And then a big moment happened on TV. America's Funniest

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Speaker 2: People comes caught.

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Speaker 4: How dare you.

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Speaker 5: Talk about it if you don't want to?

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Speaker 4: Did you do research?

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Speaker 5: I saw it?

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Speaker 2: Let me set the scene. Karen had been getting better

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Speaker 2: at stand up. She had been coming up with a

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Speaker 2: group of friends, Andy Kindler, Vernon Chapman, Brian Possain maybe

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Speaker 2: you've heard of him. She entered a comedy contest at

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Speaker 2: a club in Sacramento, and she made it to the finals.

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Speaker 6: And then and at some point they're the manager of

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Speaker 6: that comedy club was like, hey, America's Funnies people's in

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Speaker 6: town come to Old Sac and they just you're basically

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Speaker 6: just do some jokes on camera.

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Speaker 4: And so one of my.

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Speaker 6: Bits was I was at it was it was my

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Speaker 6: impression of a cheerleader auditioning for a Shakespeare play. So

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Speaker 6: essentially it's a classic fucking hacky stand up thing where

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Speaker 6: you recite something impressive in a different voice. So I

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Speaker 6: was just doing a valley girl voice.

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Speaker 5: Of Richard, I I.

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Speaker 4: I exactly.

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Speaker 6: So yeah, so that's what ended up on America's Funnies People.

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Speaker 2: So I mean the answer is, yes, we are going

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Speaker 2: to listen to some of Karen Kilgarriff on America's Funniest People.

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Speaker 7: I'm presenting my version of a cheerleader auditioning for Shakespeare play. Okay,

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Speaker 7: So like I'm auditioning for this or whatever, and I'm

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Speaker 7: gonna be doing a monologue from like Richard I I I,

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Speaker 7: And like what it is is, I'm lady Annette and

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Speaker 7: like this guy totally killed my husband, Richard, and so

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Speaker 7: he comes to the funeral just to make problems, just

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Speaker 7: like Rick bar did that time of that party when

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Speaker 7: he's gonna throw the keg through the window. Do you

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Speaker 7: remember that? Well, anyway, so like, he totally shows up

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Speaker 7: and I totally get mad and I totally say this

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Speaker 7: to him. I go like, I go like, foul devil

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Speaker 7: for God's sake, Hence in trouble us, not for that's

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Speaker 7: made the happy Earth. Eigeh Hell filled it with cursing

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Speaker 7: cries and deep exclaims. It's not the like to view

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Speaker 7: thy heinous deeds. Behold the pattern.

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Speaker 4: Of your butcheries.

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Speaker 2: Not what she would do now, probably, but it's funny.

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Speaker 2: Her perspective is very clear. If you want to see more,

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Speaker 2: it is on YouTube and it's worth watching. It's like

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Speaker 2: a muppet baby's version of the Karen Kilgarriff We know now.

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Speaker 6: And then I got called by the producers saying do

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Speaker 6: you want to come down to Burbank because you made

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Speaker 6: it to the final three? So all of a sudden,

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Speaker 6: you know, and that I recorded it well in Sacramento

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Speaker 6: and then got into a car accident. My mom's like,

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Speaker 6: that's it, You're moving home. You're just up there fucking around.

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Speaker 6: I moved home and got the call like from my parents' house.

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Speaker 6: So again, basically, after having flunked out, I floated for

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Speaker 6: a little while in this comedy thing that was happening.

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Speaker 6: And then I was like back, moved back in with

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Speaker 6: my parents, so almost like a new low. Then the

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Speaker 6: America's funniest people called, So now I'm back up and

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Speaker 6: like show biz time, and I flew down to that show,

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Speaker 6: sat in the audience was, you know, like the drum

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Speaker 6: roll with the Dave Coolier was one of the hosts.

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Speaker 4: It was like the whole.

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Speaker 5: Thing TV's Calliope.

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Speaker 6: Calliope from Days of Our Lives. It was a dream

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Speaker 6: come true.

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Speaker 2: In the video, Karen is right there in that studio audience,

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Speaker 2: in that very chic Jet Black nineteen ninety one one

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Speaker 2: hair and Karen does not win.

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Speaker 6: I won third prize. A four year old girl beat

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Speaker 6: me and a man. She said a joke. She was

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Speaker 6: what did the farmer say when he lost his tractor?

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Speaker 6: Where's my tractor?

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Speaker 5: Fun?

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Speaker 6: That was?

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Speaker 4: I know. No, she's talented, she was good. She was

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Speaker 4: she deserved it as ten and the man probably. I

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Speaker 4: bet we could track her down to who it is. No,

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Speaker 4: and that girl is Ariana Grande.

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Speaker 2: The guy who won the big prize was a seventy

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Speaker 2: year old guy dressed like a miner from old cowboy movies.

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Speaker 2: He did a strip tease to mc hammers, you can't

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Speaker 2: touch this, and he won ten thousand dollars, but Karen

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Speaker 2: didn't walk away empty handed.

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Speaker 4: I think I got four thousand dollars before taxes.

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Speaker 5: But I mean that's early nineties money. That's not bad.

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Speaker 4: It was, you know what it is.

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Speaker 6: It got me out of my parents' house and into

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Speaker 6: my apartment to moved to San Francisco to work at

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Speaker 6: the Gap and start stand up again with a It

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Speaker 6: basically relaunched my barely having begun stand up career.

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Speaker 5: Where did you see yourself as an adult in that situation?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 4: What did I think I was going to do?

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Speaker 5: Yeah? Where would you have imagined you'd be?

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Speaker 6: Now? Honestly, I kind of like this is the dream.

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Speaker 6: I'm doing it and I'm thrilled and thrilled every day

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Speaker 6: about it.

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Speaker 2: And has a career in comedy looked the way that

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Speaker 2: you imagined it would in nineteen ninety one.

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Speaker 6: The thing that I didn't understand is that everybody that

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Speaker 6: moves to Los Angeles is baseline talented at least one thing.

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Speaker 6: But there is a ton of people here who are

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Speaker 6: insanely talented at like four things. And that I think

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Speaker 6: I had that was the part that I was the

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Speaker 6: most wrong about was Oh, like, I'm super funny, and

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Speaker 6: I know a bunch of really super funny comics, and

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Speaker 6: we're like the funniest people, and it's like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 6: there's actors.

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Speaker 4: Who also are from Broadway who are ten times funnier

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Speaker 4: than you.

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Speaker 6: Like those those lessons as I lived in Los Angeles

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Speaker 6: and became intensely bewildered at the level of true talent

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Speaker 6: that comes to this town and tries to make it.

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Speaker 6: I just wanted it to be like, no, I'm a

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Speaker 6: natural and you know I'm the best or whatever.

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Speaker 4: But it was like quickly learning that, like you.

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Speaker 6: Want to tell yourself that, like those pretty hot girls

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Speaker 6: that are going in just for the ingreen new roles

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Speaker 6: aren't funny, they fucking are. They're funny. They can tap

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Speaker 6: dance and their models, So go fuck yourself, Karen from Petaluma,

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Speaker 6: because your shit ain't flying. You know. There was that

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Speaker 6: lots of adjustments like that that were really bewildering. But

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Speaker 6: then I think, thank God, somewhere along the line that

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Speaker 6: idea came to me is like, if I want to

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Speaker 6: be in this business, I should learn the business so

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Speaker 6: that I know what I'm doing and not just be

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Speaker 6: standing out here trying to be like an actor or

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Speaker 6: a comic, because those people have the least amount of

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Speaker 6: power or control. And that's what led me into writing,

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Speaker 6: and that's what led me into being behind the scenes

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Speaker 6: and learning how it actually works and what the real

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Speaker 6: business is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you've been I mean you've had many, many

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Speaker 2: ups and downs, Like there were things that you know,

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Speaker 2: they're America's funniest people. I mean, it launched a career,

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Speaker 2: but it was you know, you weren't flucked immediately from

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Speaker 2: that to super stardom. So how did you keep What

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Speaker 2: did you tell yourself to keep going?

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Speaker 6: I told myself I was funnier than that four year

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Speaker 6: old girl every goddamn day.

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Speaker 2: I want to get back to something Karen said at

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Speaker 2: the beginning of our conversation. Karen flunked out of college.

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Speaker 2: So did I. I left for college in nineteen eighty

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Speaker 2: nine a place called Holy Cross in Massachusetts. I'd been

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Speaker 2: on the waiting list, and I think that is why

384
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Speaker 2: I was so determined to go there.

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Speaker 5: You don't like me perfect, let me chase you.

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Speaker 2: I got there, I was surrounded by people who looked

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Speaker 2: like they had it together, which I very much did not.

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Speaker 5: People who were good at being normal, which I very

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Speaker 5: much was not.

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Speaker 2: A lot of kids from New England, where making fun

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Speaker 2: of you is how they show affection, but it's also

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Speaker 2: how they make fun of you. Holy Cross is a

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Speaker 2: great place. I did not fit in there. This is

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Speaker 2: the thing I would find out later. Early in the

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Speaker 2: first semester of my freshman year, a bunch of the

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Speaker 2: guys on my hall apparently had a big conversation in

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Speaker 2: the common area about whether I was gay, which I

398
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Speaker 2: very much was and still am, and at the time

399
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Speaker 2: I was very much not ready to deal with it.

400
00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,840
Speaker 2: In this conversation, a classmate from my hometown apparently confirmed

401
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:43,440
Speaker 2: that yes, the general.

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Speaker 5: Word on the street was that I was very gay.

403
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Speaker 2: That kid apparently called another kid from my high school

404
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,760
Speaker 2: who double confirmed it. And if you've worked in journalism,

405
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,080
Speaker 2: you know a fact is not considered credible unless it

406
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:55,520
Speaker 2: can be double verified.

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Speaker 5: So I was out. I was out. Heead now.

408
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Speaker 2: I was not in the common area on my hall

409
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,919
Speaker 2: the day this conversation took place. I wasn't on campus

410
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Speaker 2: at all because I had gone to the local mall

411
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 2: to go to a record store called Sam Goody to

412
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Speaker 2: pick up a cassette that had just been released and

413
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,639
Speaker 2: was sitting on my desk later that day when my

414
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:16,959
Speaker 2: roommates and some of the guys from the hall gathered

415
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Speaker 2: to go get dinner, and that tape was the album

416
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:24,199
Speaker 2: Results by E Liza Minelli, which was produced by the

417
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Speaker 2: Pet Shop Boys and has a Sondheim song on it.

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Speaker 5: So my gainness was now a triple sourced story.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, the guys on my hall, who I thought I'd

420
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Speaker 2: been doing okay with, suddenly.

421
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Speaker 5: Began to keep their distance. That's what life was like.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty nine at a Catholic school, and that's

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Speaker 2: probably why this Catholic school in nineteen eighty nine had

424
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:48,680
Speaker 2: zero out gay students. I was having trouble making friends

425
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Speaker 2: for the first time in my life. What middle aged

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Speaker 2: Dave can see very clearly is what I should have done,

427
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Speaker 2: which to just say, yes, yeah, I'm gay, do you.

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Speaker 5: Have any questions?

429
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:02,120
Speaker 2: But I didn't. What I did but instead was spiral.

430
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,679
Speaker 2: I was out every night, drinking like a maniac. I

431
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,400
Speaker 2: skipped class on the regular. I was crying for help

432
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,440
Speaker 2: and pretending everything was great all at the same time.

433
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,920
Speaker 2: It was exhausting I didn't do well. A couple weeks

434
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Speaker 2: into the summer of nineteen ninety, after I had finished

435
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,119
Speaker 2: freshman year, I was at my parents' house in Saint Louis.

436
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,439
Speaker 2: I went to check the mailbox and there was a

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Speaker 2: certified mail notice oh one six one Oho the zip

438
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,920
Speaker 2: code of holy Cross, and I just knew I had

439
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 2: never failed at anything in my life, and suddenly there

440
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 2: it was a massive, humiliating public failure.

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00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,200
Speaker 5: Karen puts the feeling into words better than I can.

442
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,360
Speaker 5: Did it feel like flung it out of college? Which

443
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 5: I also did? Oh d oh yeah. Yeah.

444
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:51,639
Speaker 2: After my freshman year Holy Cross in Massachusetts, very conservative

445
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 2: Catholic place where I did not fit in at all,

446
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:59,399
Speaker 2: and they vomited me out very quickly. However, it was

447
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,199
Speaker 2: actually it was like a one year suspension, and so

448
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 2: I did, like go and get my grades up, and

449
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 2: then I went because I felt like I have to

450
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 2: finish what I've started.

451
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 5: I went back, which was a mistake, and.

452
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:13,639
Speaker 2: I delayed my actual maturity by many, many years, and

453
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:18,680
Speaker 2: it was for me very difficult to scrub off the

454
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 2: scent of failure.

455
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, is that does that resonate with you at all?

456
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,959
Speaker 6: A thousand percent yeah, I never saw myself when I

457
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 6: was a child. I was smart and good at school,

458
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 6: always liked it, And that lasted right until seventh grade,

459
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 6: and then it all changed, and along with like puberty

460
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 6: and adolescence came this kind of like I don't I'm

461
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 6: not the smartest one in the class, therefore none of

462
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 6: this is worth my time, or like I can't stand

463
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 6: out and I'm not standing out in the smart way.

464
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 6: I'm not standing out in like the pretty way. I'm

465
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 6: trying to be loud and funny, but that isn't very

466
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,479
Speaker 6: appealing to anyone anymore. Like it was one of those

467
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 6: kinds of things where I just didn't I just didn't

468
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 6: know what I was doing really or how to do anything.

469
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 6: So I didn't see myself as the kind of person

470
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 6: who would like flunk or fail or disappoint her parents.

471
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 6: Same when it started happening, it really did feel like

472
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 6: I'm sliding backwards down a mountain and I can't stop

473
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 6: myself and I can't do anything about it, so I

474
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 6: might as well just stay in bed, drink some beer,

475
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 6: you know what I mean, Like, just dig all the

476
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 6: way into this failure act.

477
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 4: If I'm going to fail.

478
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 2: I definitely got lost in a loser moment for a while.

479
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 2: After this happened, I was able to pull myself out

480
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 2: of the downward spiral eventually, but still, more than three

481
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 2: decades later, the sense of failure is still something I

482
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:41,840
Speaker 2: catch on myself.

483
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 5: It's still my reflex.

484
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 2: To think of myself as a failure, to focus on

485
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 2: the things I haven't succeeded at instead of the things

486
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 2: I have Now, thanks to therapy and the wisdom of age,

487
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,199
Speaker 2: I can shake it off when I feel it on me,

488
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 2: but it gets on me still, and I can't help

489
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 2: but notice something when I look at ut an impact.

490
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 2: Even though that moment in that Motown, Philly video is

491
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,679
Speaker 2: all I ever saw them do, I don't think of

492
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 2: them as failures. What I see is a big launch

493
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,640
Speaker 2: that didn't pan out. What I see is some guys

494
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,640
Speaker 2: who had a plan and it didn't happen, and now

495
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 2: I just want to know what they're doing. I see

496
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 2: them as people who might have succeeded in a way

497
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 2: that I couldn't see, and I want to know what

498
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 2: that way is. I have a certain amount of curiosity

499
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 2: and goodwill for them and for their story that I

500
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 2: can't muster for me or for mine. Maybe that's why

501
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 2: I'm so obsessed.

502
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 5: I want to play something for you.

503
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:41,120
Speaker 2: Okay, it's not America's funniest Thank god, here there they are.

504
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 5: Yes, sudden Impact, Yes, just yeah. Do you remember this

505
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 5: video at all?

506
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 4: Yes?

507
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 6: I do, the Motown Philly video where it's everybody they

508
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 6: go through and it's like a yeah.

509
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 5: It's the East Coast family.

510
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 2: It's perhaps even though they get it to BBC.

511
00:24:58,080 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know the exact part.

512
00:24:59,320 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 5: That's the one.

513
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's this sudden impact. We are we are tracking

514
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 2: them down. Do you have a favorite?

515
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,160
Speaker 6: I mean, if I had to pick, and I love

516
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 6: first of all, this has always lifelong been my favorite

517
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 6: thing of picking a favorite guy in a band. Yes,

518
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 6: and and people fighting about it or discussing it or whatever.

519
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 4: Where I remember I would do like for Duran.

520
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,199
Speaker 6: Duran Obviously John Taylor the guitarist was the hottest and

521
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 6: the one I liked, but that's the one everyone picked.

522
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 6: So I was like, I like Roger the drummer because

523
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 6: I Dave we are so Nate.

524
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 3: Absolute so much.

525
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 5: I yeah, no, absolutely from the jump it was Roger.

526
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 2: Some people divide the world up into astrological signs I

527
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 2: do it by who's your favorite member of Duran Durant?

528
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 2: And I knew Karen was a Roger. All the best

529
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 2: people are Rogers.

530
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 5: Yep.

531
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 6: I was just like, sure, it's a given you're gonna

532
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 6: like John Taylor. He looks like almost like a big girl,

533
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,640
Speaker 6: which everybody loves in rock and roll, Like there's something

534
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 6: about that that's so soothing to a young girl's soul.

535
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 6: But what's this Italian doing over here? What's this little

536
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 6: guy that's that's holding down a rhythm section.

537
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 5: Who looks a little out of place and uncomfortable.

538
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 4: He looks like he hates it, which I love it.

539
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 2: Yes, And it's so when he becomes the first to leave,

540
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 2: it's not surprising at all.

541
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 4: No, I was proud of him.

542
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, goes and lives on a farm, and it's just like,

543
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 2: I don't guy's cocaine is bad.

544
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 5: Let's not do it anymore.

545
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 6: Guys, you're doing much and you all you now look

546
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 6: like middle aged women.

547
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,199
Speaker 4: Okay, so wait, let me look at this.

548
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 5: Yeah, so I can really see for sure. Yeah, and

549
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 5: you're gonna want to look close.

550
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 6: But did these guys release a video or like, is

551
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 6: there a reference of any kind of me knowing them

552
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 6: that would Okay.

553
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 2: That's the whole thing, is that this is what they did.

554
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 2: Oh so my understanding is that they have continued to

555
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 2: make music in some way or another, but I don't

556
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 2: know where they are. And this was such a massive

557
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 2: like platform to be given really before you've done anything.

558
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 5: And then kind of nothing happened, which is fascinating to me.

559
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 2: And then we get to the points of this show,

560
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 2: which is the point in the Motown Philly video which

561
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 2: I never get.

562
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 5: Tired of looking at.

563
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,199
Speaker 6: I got to pick the guy in the center with

564
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 6: the bow tie, which makes me think he's somehow the

565
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 6: lead made something made or he or he is smart

566
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 6: enough to notice set himself apart.

567
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, Barber streisandstyle.

568
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 2: And it is a tuxedo shirt if you look closely, Okay,

569
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 2: it is a tuxedo shirt. And it's it's definitely it's

570
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 2: an Italian restaurant waiter.

571
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 6: Yeah. I was gonna say, did he have to pick

572
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 6: up a couple tables after this shoot?

573
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 4: And he had to go straight to his dad's restaurant

574
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 4: And it's.

575
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 2: That might have been the take, you know, that might

576
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 2: have been the only take. You know, they're young they're

577
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:55,640
Speaker 2: full of promise. It's nineteen ninety one.

578
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,199
Speaker 5: What advice do you have for Sudden Impact about a

579
00:27:58,280 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 5: life in the arts.

580
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 6: You know, don't be afraid of a safety net if

581
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 6: you have if you have an accounting degree, that's great.

582
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 6: If you don't put all your eggs in one Sudden

583
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 6: Impact basket, which hopefully they didn't. But like that was

584
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 6: the thing that I did, really did learn coming to

585
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 6: Los Angeles as a stand up comedian, that I better

586
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 6: get some other skills going very quickly, like learn learn things.

587
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 6: Have someone teach you how to write sketches, how to

588
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 6: write scripts, how to be an assistant, something else. But

589
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 6: like flexibility, I guess resilience, adaptability would be.

590
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 4: My advice. That's the key.

591
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 2: So maybe the boys of Sudden Impact did just take

592
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 2: a more practical path. Maybe they went back to school,

593
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 2: or maybe they're still grinding.

594
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 5: It out now. I have no idea.

595
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 2: But at long last, after three decades, I know someone

596
00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 2: who might well Sudden Impact have existed in my mind

597
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 2: as a symbol, a moment from a music video, a

598
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 2: mystery I've never known how to solve for a vet

599
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 2: Nicole Brown. They're friends co workers East Coast family, siblings.

600
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 2: You know, a Vet from community, from Drake and Josh,

601
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 2: from generally being the best thing about whatever she's in.

602
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 2: But she's also a singer. She was a part of

603
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 2: Michael Bivens's East Coast Family with Sudden Impact. My friend

604
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 2: Scott put me in touch with Evet. And what's fascinating

605
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 2: is that she got her dream life and then got

606
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 2: a new dream life.

607
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 5: Because she walked up and asked for it.

608
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 2: Karen and I were dreaming and folding denim in nineteen

609
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 2: ninety one, Vet was manifesting.

610
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 5: Did you did you just always want to sing?

611
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 2: Oh?

612
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: Gosh, you couldn't tell me I wasn't going to be

613
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: a singer. I oh, I mean I grew up loving

614
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson and Jackson five, and I.

615
00:29:58,520 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 3: Was I'm not that old.

616
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: Ever I found them they were already grown and as

617
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: they were the Jacksons by the time I was born

618
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: and realized what the Jackson five was and how amazing

619
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 1: it was. And I listened to just a lot of

620
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: old R and B. Like, well, it's old now, but

621
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: it was like eighties R and B when I was

622
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: a kid, and I just loved music and I loved

623
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: singing and I thought I was going to be and

624
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: one of my favorite groups was New Addition, and my

625
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: thought was, if I'm going to marry one of them,

626
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: I need to be on tour with them, and so

627
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: the only way I could ensure that is for me

628
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 1: to sing.

629
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 3: So that was one of the other.

630
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: Reasons why I wanted to be a singer, because I

631
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: wanted to marry somebody. A New Audition, So there you go,

632
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: there's my secret.

633
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 2: New Edition were the biggest boy band since the Jackson five.

634
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 2: They were so big when they fired their manager, he

635
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 2: went out and started a new boy band just out

636
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 2: of spite, and that boy band was New Kids on

637
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 2: the Block.

638
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 5: More on that.

639
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 2: Later, but New Addition were huge in nineteen eighty four.

640
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 2: And like with Duran Duran, you had to have a favorite.

641
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 2: So now it can be told, like who in New

642
00:30:58,280 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 2: Edition I loved?

643
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: I loved Ralph and I loved Michael. Those were my

644
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: two favorites. I love them all, But if I was

645
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: gonna marry someone, who would have been those two?

646
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 5: Okay, so you had a double bias.

647
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I mean Ralph was first and Mike

648
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: was second. And Michael knows this, so I'm not telling

649
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: tales out of school. I'm not he's not finding out

650
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: here that he wasn't.

651
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 3: My favorite.

652
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: New Edition had been put together by music producer Maurice Starr,

653
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 2: who got them in a recording studio, released their debut album,

654
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 2: Candy Girl, and when a couple of the singles started

655
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 2: selling well in Europe, sent them off on a world tour.

656
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 2: They came back from that tour and Star mailed them

657
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 2: a check for their year plus of hard work. That

658
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 2: check was for one dollar and eighty seven cents, not

659
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 2: five checks. One check for them all to split. I

660
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 2: know that doesn't sound like a lot, but adjusted for inflation,

661
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 2: that is.

662
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 5: Yeah.

663
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 2: No, that's still some bullshit. So they fired Maurice Starr.

664
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 2: They moved to MCA Records. They released the album New Edition,

665
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 2: which went double platinum in the States. They released five

666
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 2: more hit albums, and then they took a break. In

667
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 2: the late eighties, the individual New Edition guys began to

668
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 2: go their separate ways. When Bobby Brown went solo, then

669
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 2: his replacement Johnny Gil did the same, then lead singer

670
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 2: Ralph Tresvant. That left the other three Ricky Bell, Michael Bivins,

671
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 2: and Ronnie de Vaux to form Bell biv Davoux, who

672
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 2: blew up in nineteen ninety with the album Poison and Listen.

673
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 2: I tried a lot of things when I was trying

674
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 2: to break into this business, but there is one thing

675
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 2: I never thought of doing, and it's just going up

676
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 2: to my hero and demanding a job. Ivette sang for

677
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 2: Michael Bivins in a hotel lobby and then he called

678
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 2: her up and signed her to his label.

679
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 5: So tell me where you're feeling that in your body

680
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 5: when you get the call.

681
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it's you know, my whole whole everything just

682
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: like lights up at the thought of that. Because one

683
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: thing I didn't tell you about meeting him that Kaihaga

684
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: fall Sheridan was one of those atrium hotels, so like

685
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: the center of the hotel, you can look all the

686
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: way up and see all the floor, so it's like

687
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: a big square and you can look up right. So

688
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 1: every time I asked Mike to sing for me, I

689
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: asked when he walked in the door, when he was

690
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: getting his key from the front desk, as he went

691
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: to the elevator, he said no to me like three times.

692
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: So he got on the elevator and went up to

693
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 1: like the six or seventh floor, and as he gets

694
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: off the elevator, I hear singing coming from the six

695
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: or seventh floor and I look up and there's Michael

696
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: Bibbin's letting somebody sing for So I get on.

697
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 3: The elevator and I punched it.

698
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: I get off the floor and he's just finishing up

699
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: listening to someone that said, you just really messed up

700
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: that I've been asking you, and I really would like

701
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: to sing for.

702
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 3: You, sir, and let me, sir.

703
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: He was like, he's a kid too, I'm like, sir,

704
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 1: and so he said, well, just go on and sing then,

705
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: and so I sang angrily.

706
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 3: He listened angrily.

707
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: He took my number angrily like it was a really

708
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: like contentious, you know situation. But he was like, I

709
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: gotta get her number because she actually can sing, like

710
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: and he was looking for talent.

711
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 2: What's truly wild about this story is if that's absolute

712
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 2: certainty about it, not just now, but then it's not

713
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 2: like she went to apply for a job.

714
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 5: The job was hers and she knew it. She just

715
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 5: went to pick it up.

716
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 3: There's one other thing about it.

717
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: Dave the fall whatever year, I think it was a

718
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: freshman year, sophomore year of college is the same year

719
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: that Michael discovered Boys to Men. And Michael was on

720
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: BT with Boys to Men introducing them to the world.

721
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 1: And I was in college watching BT and I said

722
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: to my roommate, my friend Nikki, I said, he's going

723
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 1: to manage me. I'm like, I'm I'm Michael's going to

724
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 1: manage me.

725
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,959
Speaker 3: And she was like sure. I felt in my heart,

726
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 3: I'm like, he's going to manage me. Like I just knew.

727
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: I didn't know how it was going to happen. I

728
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 1: just knew that he was part of my destiny. Like

729
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,760
Speaker 1: whatever I was going to be in entertainment, that Michael

730
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: Bibbins was part of it.

731
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 3: I can just feel it.

732
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, I can just feel it. And you manifested it.

733
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, or God knew what was going to happen and

734
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: put it in my mind.

735
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 5: So you get signed to Motif ten MM, and then

736
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:49,360
Speaker 5: then what happens.

737
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 1: We do a video, We do a song, and we

738
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 1: do a video and that's where we worked with Well,

739
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: they were they were the white guys by the time

740
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: I did the video.

741
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 3: They started a sudden impact.

742
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I knew sudden impact became white guys and now

743
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 2: I have a thousand more questions for Sudden Impact, Slash White.

744
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,720
Speaker 1: Guys another Bad Creatures, so many great talented people.

745
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 3: We did our.

746
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,720
Speaker 2: Video Bivin's put a Vette Hayden and another singer into

747
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 2: a vocal group together.

748
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 1: We were putting a group called Different and we were

749
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 1: brought out my my junior year, I think, yeah, the

750
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: summer of my junior year of college, we were brought

751
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: out to California school.

752
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 5: Yep in school.

753
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 3: We were brought out to California to record.

754
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: And so I spent the summer of my junior year

755
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 1: out here and we were like just hanging out around

756
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: the pool and going to parties, like we hadn't recorded yet.

757
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,320
Speaker 1: And it was coming up on the middle of August

758
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: and I said to Mike, I said, you know, I

759
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 1: got one more year school, like I'm almost almost have

760
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: my degree, like I need to. I hate to go

761
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: back and do this. And so he was like, we'll

762
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 1: go home, finish your degree. You can come back and

763
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,720
Speaker 1: we'll do it, you know after, And then of course

764
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: by then, you know, the music industry change.

765
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 2: As the early nineties became the mid nineties, popular music

766
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 2: got a little dirtier. I love your Smile by Shenise

767
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 2: became freakd Like Me by Adina Howard mc hammer, whose

768
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety song you Can't Touch This was so wholesome

769
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 2: it won a seventy year old guy ten thousand dollars

770
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 2: on America's Funny As People. By nineteen ninety four, was

771
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 2: doing a song called Pumps on a Bump with a

772
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 2: video that features him in a speedo. The videos on

773
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 2: YouTube watch at your own risk. Sexy Jams was just

774
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 2: not a direction if that wanted to go in. She

775
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 2: wanted to do uplifting, almost gospel style R and B music,

776
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 2: So her time as a singer never really came. Are

777
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,760
Speaker 2: you frustrated during this time, like while you're signed?

778
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 1: And you know, I wasn't frustrated, but I'm someone that

779
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 1: likes to be efficient, and I just felt, like, you know,

780
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: laying out by the pool is fun, and going to

781
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: these parties is fun, and it's great to be around

782
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,359
Speaker 1: Michael and stuff. But my dream, or my mother's dream,

783
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 1: even more than mine, was for me to graduate from college.

784
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,399
Speaker 1: And I wanted that for myself. I wanted that for her,

785
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: and I had put in three good years and I

786
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 1: had scholarships and pill grants, and you know, I really

787
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 1: worked hard. I had work study all through college, so

788
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 1: I earned, you know.

789
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 3: The right to be there.

790
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 1: And I felt like, though it was fun to be

791
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: out in LA, if we're not recording, I don't need

792
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:21,919
Speaker 1: to be here.

793
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 3: I need to be recording.

794
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 1: So it was the frustration of it not being an

795
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,800
Speaker 1: efficient amount of time spent.

796
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:37,280
Speaker 5: So at what point did you say music is not happening.

797
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 1: I've always felt like, you know, you race towards the

798
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 1: thing that's racing towards you, and so music just didn't

799
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: like me that much.

800
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:47,879
Speaker 3: It just wasn't you know.

801
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 1: It thought I was cute, Yeah, but it didn't like

802
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 1: me like that, right where acting loves me, like acting

803
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: things I'm great. And so when I started auditioning for

804
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 1: commercials and that started to take off, I was like, well,

805
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:03,439
Speaker 1: this is what it should be.

806
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 2: The dream of singing receded into the background while the

807
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:10,320
Speaker 2: dream of acting took over. But singing never completely disappeared.

808
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 2: And this is the funny thing, Dave.

809
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: I sing on just about every show I get, every

810
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: show that I've been a series regular on, I've sung

811
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: on every single whie. So the gift is still being

812
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: used and I do a lot of cartoons, a lot

813
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: of kids shows, a lot of cartoons, and I've been

814
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: singing on all of those as well. So it's not

815
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 1: like it's gone. It just didn't manifest in the way

816
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: that I thought it would.

817
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 2: If that is at peace with the way her career

818
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 2: turned out. She didn't get to be a big famous singer,

819
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 2: but it's not because of anything she did or Michael

820
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 2: Bivens did. The world was just a different place back then.

821
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: We were very young and naive and didn't understand what

822
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 1: it was. And I don't know that I don't know

823
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 1: that any of us back then had the killer instinct

824
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: you would need the killer instinct that performers now are

825
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 1: like born with. We didn't have a social media. All

826
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: the meeting is that they had to read. They could

827
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: read up on anybody they wanted, They could find out

828
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 1: about anything, they could put out their own music, like

829
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 1: the world was wide open for that generation, and so

830
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 1: I feel like those of us back in the East

831
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 1: Coast family, we didn't have those those opportunities to figure

832
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: it out. So that's why some of us made it,

833
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 1: and some of us are still trying to get to

834
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: whatever place we wanted to get to because it's just

835
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: not laid out. There was no blueprint back then, like

836
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: it was a record label and that's it. So many

837
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 1: ways to make it now. Yeah, if some an impact

838
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 1: was out right now, they would be they would you know,

839
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 1: be streaming, they'd be on YouTube, they'd be doing TikTok

840
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: videos like we wouldn't know them.

841
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 3: They'd be super duper famous as a.

842
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:47,439
Speaker 5: Boy band right now, right right.

843
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: They just didn't get their shot, right, they get their shot,

844
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:55,359
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, Hayden didn't either. Hayden Heide was such

845
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: a great You need to talk to Hayden.

846
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 2: If you watch that one for all for one video,

847
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,439
Speaker 2: you remember Hayden. He sticks out like a sore thumb,

848
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:05,240
Speaker 2: looks like a frat boy on your college rugby team.

849
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,879
Speaker 5: But that voice. How was this guy not a star? Yeah?

850
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 5: I would love to talk to Hayden. Do you know how?

851
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 3: I sure know how to get you in contact with Hayden?

852
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 5: Not sure would be fantasy?

853
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that would be No.

854
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: You got to talk to Hayden because he's he's first

855
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: of all, he's that's someone I hope puts out an album.

856
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, his voice is he was like a white one.

857
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, incredible voice. I mean, all I've heard is is

858
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 2: you know from No He.

859
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: Had a whole He had a whole album on Motown.

860
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: It never got released. He remade PEG Yes beautiful, Yes,

861
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,919
Speaker 1: amazing version of PEG never came out. It was something

862
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 1: that something happened with the label. I can't remember. But

863
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:46,240
Speaker 1: there's a whole album of music that is done. Hayden's

864
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,760
Speaker 1: album not being released is a tragedy. It's a tragedy

865
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: for music that blue eyed soul. He would have really

866
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: yeah he did. That's a loss for all of us.

867
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,879
Speaker 2: We are one step closer to meeting Sudden Impact. If

868
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 2: that's gonna hook me up with Hayden, another act from

869
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 2: Michael Bivens' East Coast family who could have been huge.

870
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 5: I want to know his.

871
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 2: Story, and not for nothing. He might still be in

872
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 2: touch with Sudden Impact or White Guy's or whatever their

873
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 2: name is. Now we'll talk to him, and we'll take

874
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 2: a deep dive into the pop landscape of nineteen ninety

875
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 2: one and how one procedural change in the way charts

876
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 2: were compiled changed what the entire world listened to with

877
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 2: pop chart columnist.

878
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 5: Chris malanfe That's Next Time on.

879
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:35,839
Speaker 2: Waiting for Impact, a Dave Holmes passion project. This has

880
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 2: been an exactly Right production written by Me Dave Hormelson,

881
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:45,320
Speaker 2: produced by Hannah Kyle Crichton, recorded, mixed and sound designed

882
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:50,000
Speaker 2: by Andrew Epen. Additional engineering and assembly by Annalise Nelson.

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