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Speaker 1: Verse one, then two, three, four, up to eleven and

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Speaker 1: possibly more women asleep in their own apartments when suddenly

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Speaker 1: they are attacked by a man with a pillow case

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Speaker 1: over his head. Slits cut the pillowcase for his eyes, bound,

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Speaker 1: tortured and raped repeatedly. Will DNA catch the pillowcase Rapist?

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Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, This is Crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The Rape

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Speaker 1: Criman Center calls the pillowcase rapist a crafty criminal who's

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Speaker 1: thrilled to pieces. He hasn't been caught in five years.

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Speaker 1: Police say they expect the recent listening we'll make him

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Speaker 1: more cautious, but they don't believe it'll stop him. The

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Speaker 1: pillowcase Rapist terrorized more than forty women from South Miami

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Speaker 1: to Deerfield Beach, and no one covered the case more

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Speaker 1: closely than former Miami Herald reporter and author Edna wu Kannan.

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Speaker 1: She even included him in her first novel. It appears

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Speaker 1: at this writing that the pillowcase Rapist has not struck

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Speaker 1: since the attached the quick witted woman Victim number forty four.

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Speaker 1: You're hearing our friends at WPLG Local ten ABC reporter

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Speaker 1: Ian Margol the pillow case rapist. Why is he called

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Speaker 1: the pillowcase rapist with forty plus victims? And how has

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Speaker 1: he gotten away with that? IMC. Grace, This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. Take a listen to this.

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Speaker 1: According to records leading back to nineteen eighty one, the

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Speaker 1: pillowcase rapist was a suspect who used a pillowcase, a towel,

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Speaker 1: or a shirt to conceal his identity while breaking into

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Speaker 1: homes and raping women in South Florida. For years, that

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Speaker 1: case not going anywhere until this weekend, with the arrest

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Speaker 1: of a six year old sex offender right here in

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Speaker 1: Brevard County. Now, this is all according to a Miami

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Speaker 1: Herald reports, take a look. Six year old Robert Eugene

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Speaker 1: Cohler was arrested Saturday. According to jail records, he was

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Speaker 1: arrested at his home in Palm Bay for an out

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Speaker 1: of county warrant being held right now in the Brevard

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Speaker 1: County jail. The Miami Herald reporting believe he is the

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Speaker 1: pillowcase rapist. The Miami Herald reporting the pillowcase rapist attacked

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Speaker 1: at least forty four women from nineteen eighty one to

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six. The case, involving local and state authorities

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Speaker 1: and a task force to find the pillowcase rapist, was

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Speaker 1: disbanded in nineteen eighty seven. No breaks in that case

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Speaker 1: until now, and what a break it is again? I

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Speaker 1: Meanancy graces his crime stories. Thank you for being with us. Typically,

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Speaker 1: the so called pillowcase rapists would hide his identity with pillowcases, towels,

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Speaker 1: or shirts before he would attack his victims. How did

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Speaker 1: he get away with it for so long? In fact,

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Speaker 1: he was even a registered sex offender. His name Robert

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Speaker 1: Eugene Kohler Robert Eugene Koehler, and he's suspected in being

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Speaker 1: a killer in a high profile case where batting was

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Speaker 1: used to hide his face. Kohler already had a sex

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Speaker 1: battery conviction in Palm Beach County. But how did he

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Speaker 1: manage to get away with this many crimes for this long?

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Speaker 1: With me an all star panel? Renowned attorney Jason Ocean's

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Speaker 1: Joining me from New York. Cloyd Steiger, Seattle, PD twenty

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Speaker 1: two years in homicide, author of Seattle's Forgotten serial Killer,

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Speaker 1: Gary Jean Grant at Kloyd Steiger dot com Joseph Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My

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Speaker 1: Feet on Amazon. Karen Stark, psychologist, joining us from Manhattan

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Speaker 1: at Karen Stark dot com. Cheryl a point genetic genealogist

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Speaker 1: The gene Hunter. But right now to Levi page climb

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Speaker 1: online dot com investigative reporter Levi start at the beginning

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Speaker 1: with the first victim, Well Nancy. The m O of

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Speaker 1: the pillowcase rapists is that he would break into homes

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Speaker 1: or apartments of his victims. He had a pillowcase and

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Speaker 1: he would cover their face and they couldn't get a

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Speaker 1: good look at him. But some of his victims reported

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Speaker 1: seeing a man wearing a mask with islets cut out

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Speaker 1: of it, made from what looked like a pillowcase, and

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Speaker 1: he would rape them using a knife like object, and

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Speaker 1: before leaving the scene, he would take items from their

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Speaker 1: apartments or town homes, like jewelry or their underwear. And

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Speaker 1: he preyed on women in Miami Dad in Broward County, Florida.

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Speaker 1: This is in South Florida, and law enforcement claims that

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Speaker 1: this rapist had forty four victims in the eighties and

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Speaker 1: he singled out one apartment complex in Broward County, and

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Speaker 1: he had five victims one particular apartment complex there. His victims,

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Speaker 1: most of them were young, single professionals. Their occupations ranged

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Speaker 1: from flight attendants, a teacher, health spot instructor, models, nurses,

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Speaker 1: even an insurance executive. But there was one attack Nancy

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Speaker 1: that broke the mold. And this was his last known

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Speaker 1: attack in the eighties, and it was an eighty two

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Speaker 1: year old woman who was described as frell And even

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Speaker 1: though she was older than the rest of his victims,

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Speaker 1: her account matched their stories to a t. He used

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Speaker 1: a pillowcase, he covers his head, had icelets cut out.

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Speaker 1: He used clothing to cover up their face during the rape.

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Speaker 1: But what is extraordinary is Nancy. This eighty two year

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Speaker 1: old woman chased him out of her home using a

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Speaker 1: dishtal rack. And South Florida was living in fear Nancy

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Speaker 1: in the eighties with this maniac on the loose. And

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Speaker 1: what's really scary is Nancy. At one crime scene, he

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Speaker 1: left behind underwear that did not belong to the victim.

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Speaker 1: And one of the underwear was a little a pair

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Speaker 1: of underwear that a little girl would wear. Oh no,

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Speaker 1: because that suggests to me that there are child victims.

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Speaker 1: You know, Decloyd Steiger, thirty six years Seattle, PG homicide detective.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing to me and confounding. Clearly this guy is

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Speaker 1: from the Miami Dade and Prowurd area. Because all of

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Speaker 1: his victims are right there in that cluster of three

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Speaker 1: major Florida counties. It's hard for me to believe that

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Speaker 1: he would drive a long distance to come repeatedly to

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Speaker 1: the same tri county area. So that gives me a

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Speaker 1: clue right there. Yeah, there's the thing called geographical profiling,

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Speaker 1: and I think if you look at this cause history,

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Speaker 1: you're going to find that he either lived or worked

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Speaker 1: very close to the complex that Levi I mentioned where

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Speaker 1: five rapes happened, and had some reason to be in

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Speaker 1: the others. Although as he gets better in his practice

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Speaker 1: he might prow out a little bit. But I think

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Speaker 1: you're right, he's going to be in that area and

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Speaker 1: from that area to Karen Start, New York psychologist, Karen,

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Speaker 1: what does it mean to you that he would use

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Speaker 1: a pillowcase over his head with the eyes cut out. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think that that was his version of a nask

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Speaker 1: Nancy and he didn't go to a lot of trouble

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Speaker 1: to try and get something that would really be the

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Speaker 1: kinds of thing that other people who would be in

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Speaker 1: that position would use. He would just take what was convenient,

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Speaker 1: a pillowcase, nick two slips, and that was it. But

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Speaker 1: he was very smart because he also covered the face

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Speaker 1: of the victim. Take a listen. So, with the assistance

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Speaker 1: of the Bavard County Sheriff's office, he was taken into custody.

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Speaker 1: Kohler was then transported here to Miami, where yesterday a

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Speaker 1: judge issued a search warrant to collect DNA directly from him,

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Speaker 1: where they swapped his mouth at the jail. That DNA

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Speaker 1: sample was taken directly to the crime laboratory where analysts

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Speaker 1: worked literally all through last night to be able to

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Speaker 1: make and confirm one the color is the source of

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Speaker 1: that male DNA that was found in so many of

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Speaker 1: those pillowcase rapists cases. Wow, So it ended up being

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Speaker 1: a matter of genetics. But speaking of MS to Joseph

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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, forensics expert, what about the fact that many

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Speaker 1: people believe the pillowcase rapist went silent because the last

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Speaker 1: victim saw his face. I think that it is significant

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Speaker 1: it would kind of knock him back out of his

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Speaker 1: comfort zone. As Cloyd had mentioned just a second ago,

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Speaker 1: this goes to kind of geographic sourcing relative to him

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Speaker 1: watching the area, of him being familiar with it, and

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Speaker 1: he may even be very familiar with the motives of

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Speaker 1: the police or the drivers of the police. How are

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Speaker 1: they investigating this case, So he may have dropped off

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Speaker 1: of the map, or there's another possibility he could very

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Speaker 1: well have changed his m in the way he was

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Speaker 1: handling things. There might not be connectivity quite established yet

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Speaker 1: between older cases and newer cases, so that remains to

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Speaker 1: be seen. I think that it's very troubling what Levi

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Speaker 1: I had mentioned relative to the underwear of the small child.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of unlikely, but I think that's something that

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Speaker 1: needs to be considered. Crime stories with Meancy Grace. The

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Speaker 1: authorities say that Robert Color used a pillow case, a

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Speaker 1: T shirt or a talent to conceal his identity. He

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Speaker 1: allegedly assaulted more than forty women in nineteen eighty one.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty six, at their town homes and at

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Speaker 1: their apartments. He was arrested at his home in Pombay

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Speaker 1: and brought back here to Miami Day, Prosecutors and victims

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Speaker 1: of forty four sex crimes have been waiting nearly forty

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Speaker 1: years for the arrest of the suspected pillowcase rapist. The

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Speaker 1: sixty year old Pombay resident has his sexual offense history

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Speaker 1: in South Florida. Robert Kohler has been a registered sex

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Speaker 1: offenders since in nineteen ninety one conviction in Palm Beach County.

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Speaker 1: Now he's accused of dozens of sexual assaults from the

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighties. Miamie Date Police suspect Kohler as a serial

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Speaker 1: rapist who used a pillowcase to blindfold his victims. In

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six, the Associated Press called the pillowcase rapist

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Speaker 1: the most hunted man in South Florida history. You are

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Speaker 1: hearing our friends joining us from CBS Miami. That was

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Speaker 1: Peter Dianche speaking finally a guy in custody. Now he's

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Speaker 1: up in his sixties. I don't get it, Leavi Page.

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Speaker 1: If he isn't his sixties, how was he when all

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Speaker 1: of these rapes were occurring, Nancy, He was in his

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Speaker 1: twenties and thirties while he committed these rapes. Wow, what

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Speaker 1: does that say to you? Karen Stark psychologists joining us

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Speaker 1: that he has been doing this now for forty years

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Speaker 1: and starting in his early twenties. Well, it shows exactly

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Speaker 1: what you would expect in this kind of profile, that

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Speaker 1: once he begins to do it, he can't stop himself.

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Speaker 1: And question is did he get worse? Did he did

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Speaker 1: he start to have fantasies about doing more harm if

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Speaker 1: he's doing it for so many years, But it doesn't

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Speaker 1: surprise me that he keeps on. Guys, we were talking

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Speaker 1: about a guy called the Pillow Case rapist. Now, what

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Speaker 1: about the evidence including a dungeon in progress found at

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Speaker 1: his residence? What can that reveal about his mindset? But

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Speaker 1: how did the case get cracked to start with? Take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at Local ten ABC. They

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Speaker 1: have late now DNA to twenty five different rape cases

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Speaker 1: from South Miami to Deerfield. This is forty years in

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Speaker 1: the making, and tonight, with no bond, the alleged Pillowcase

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Speaker 1: rapist is in custody here Robert Kohler. It took a

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Speaker 1: matter of minutes for the appearance of a man police

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Speaker 1: have wanted thirty six years. Robert Kohler transferred from Revard

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Speaker 1: County suspected as the notorious pillowcase rapist, suspected in fact,

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Speaker 1: in dozens of rapes with similar ms, covering victim's faces

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Speaker 1: with material like pillowcases. Miami Dade's new police director was

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Speaker 1: in high school at the time. The whole department, the

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Speaker 1: community was mobilized. A lot of sweat and tears were

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Speaker 1: put into those cases, and this guy was eluding it.

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Speaker 1: The arrest wore in details how evidence from a rape

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Speaker 1: in northwest Miami Dade in December nineteen eighty three became

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Speaker 1: a DNA match in January twenty twenty. I want to

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Speaker 1: focus right now on what was found in his home.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to w f LA news. Found within

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Speaker 1: one of those safes were a number of items of

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Speaker 1: women's jewelry, things that looked like trinkets, possibly souvenirs if

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Speaker 1: you will, of his prior offenses. In addition, what was

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Speaker 1: found in one of those safes was a metal nail

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Speaker 1: file that was wrapped in a protective covering, which seemed

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Speaker 1: like a strange object to hide away in a safe, unless,

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Speaker 1: of course, it was the weapon that the offender had used.

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Speaker 1: Because many of the victims described the weapon as being

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Speaker 1: a sharp pointy object, something like an ice pick, which

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Speaker 1: a nail file certainly would fit the bill, and so

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Speaker 1: it appeared as though that may also have been a souvenir,

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Speaker 1: if you will, that this man had. In addition, the

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Speaker 1: police found what appeared to be, for lack of a

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Speaker 1: better term, a dungeon in progress. He had excavated a

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Speaker 1: little room underneath the floor of his house that was

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Speaker 1: very disturbing for the investigators to see. And we feared

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Speaker 1: very much that had we not gotten him into custody,

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Speaker 1: that he may have had other plans even worse than

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Speaker 1: what he executed on all of these women. From these cases,

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Speaker 1: a dungeon in progress, jewelry taken from victim saved as mementos. Now,

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Speaker 1: this is a guy that was raising a daughter and

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Speaker 1: son with various girlfriends. Although one neighbor said Erica Winzel quote,

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Speaker 1: I kept him as far away from us as I could,

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Speaker 1: The neighborhood just feels safer now that he's gone. Isn't

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Speaker 1: an unusual Cloyd Steiger that people get a gut instinct

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Speaker 1: on other people and then they turn out to beat predators. Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: this guy as predator written all over him. Everything about him.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure, he fatasized continuously about about these crimes. But

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Speaker 1: you're right, people will get what they call spidey sense

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Speaker 1: that this guy's no good. It makes the hair crawl

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Speaker 1: on their back and so they stay away from the minutes.

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Speaker 1: You should always trust that instinct. Guys, we are talking

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Speaker 1: about the so called Pillow case rapist. But how in

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Speaker 1: the end was he finally caught. I'd like to say

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Speaker 1: it was police work, that it was an epiphany and

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Speaker 1: suddenly everything fit together. But it was good old fashioned science.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. The FDLA began to do

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Speaker 1: familia DNA searchers, which allowed them to identify persons with

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Speaker 1: DNA profiles similar similar to the profile of the offender,

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Speaker 1: so on that theory, such individuals were likely related. So

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Speaker 1: when the son of Robert Kohler was arrested last year

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Speaker 1: for felony domestic violence. Remember demandatory collection of DNA is

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Speaker 1: only required in felony cases, his DNA was entered into

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Speaker 1: the day base and DNA sorry fd determined that the

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Speaker 1: DNA of the sun was so similar to the DNA

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Speaker 1: of the then unknown offender that the offender had to

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Speaker 1: be the man's father. That's from our friends at w

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Speaker 1: FLA News Channel eight. First of all, to Jason Oceans,

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Speaker 1: New York defense attorney joining us from Manhattan. Jason Oceans,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that the defense attorneys are going to try

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Speaker 1: and defeat or suppress any evidence of familial DNA. What

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Speaker 1: I understand is his son was charged on domestic abuse.

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Speaker 1: When his DNA was entered into the system. It was

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Speaker 1: a quasi match, not a direct match, but an associated

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Speaker 1: match to DNA found. I guess sperm of the pillow

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Speaker 1: case rapist. Now, how can the defense attack this and

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Speaker 1: what's the chance they'll win? Nancy, You knows, as science

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Speaker 1: and becomes so much more sophisticated in the ability to

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Speaker 1: really lock it down without defense attorneys being able to

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Speaker 1: dissect it. Because it's brand new, it's unproven, These cases

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Speaker 1: become much harder to isolate. You know the concept of

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Speaker 1: attacking the victims, which is very common in jurisdictions. You're

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Speaker 1: battling science, so you know, the recollection of everyone is

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Speaker 1: going to be off a bit, and I think that's

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Speaker 1: where you can go after you know your pace if

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Speaker 1: you're trying it is the recollection of defendants of victims

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Speaker 1: that are many, many years old. You could certainly cross

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Speaker 1: them very well. But the science probably at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, and the commonality of it in its

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Speaker 1: use and how it was done, it becomes almost, you know,

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Speaker 1: too much of a hill to overcome. To Cheryl a point,

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Speaker 1: joining us genetic genealogist, the gene hunter shared thanks for

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Speaker 1: being with us, Shara. Right now, only a handful of

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Speaker 1: states allow familial DNA defense attorneys arguing that it's a

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Speaker 1: violation of their rights to use this technique. But explain

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Speaker 1: to me, cheryla point, how it works. Let's get an

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Speaker 1: understanding of what familial DNA is, Nancy. Familial DNA is

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Speaker 1: search that law enforcement does through their DNA databases, which

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Speaker 1: are databases like codus, where they actually look for genetic

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Speaker 1: information that's going to ten point a relative of a

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Speaker 1: person that they're looking to identify. So they won't have

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Speaker 1: an exact match to the criminal, but they will have

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Speaker 1: a partial match. And normally that would show you a

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Speaker 1: close family member like a child apparent, And in this case,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly what happened. They were able to find a

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Speaker 1: match to a son like you said, that had been

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Speaker 1: arrested for a felony domestic violence. Towards last year, and

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Speaker 1: there is no doubt that the DNA does not lie.

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Speaker 1: And in my opinion this in so many cases we're

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Speaker 1: going to see DNA matches to it's going to be

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Speaker 1: a partial match to this son's DNA, and then what

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Speaker 1: needs to be done is the perpetrator's DNA needs to

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Speaker 1: be taken, which I know it was already done, and

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Speaker 1: I believe they already connected them to about twenty five

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Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace. Police say, all these years later,

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Speaker 1: they finally have DNA evidence. They say DNA from a

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Speaker 1: rape KIP for one of the cases matches the DNA

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Speaker 1: of Kohler's son, who was arrested recently. Police say they

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Speaker 1: then matched the son's DNA to his father. Eric and

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Speaker 1: Alex Wenzel watched as police came to their neighborhood to

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Speaker 1: arrest Kohler, and they say they always have some questions

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Speaker 1: about him. I just I just always read him as

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Speaker 1: incredibly predatory. They just, like I said, you know, just

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Speaker 1: the way he looked at people, absolutely horrified. Jennifer Pritchett

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Speaker 1: grew up on Kohler Street in Palm Bay. She remembers

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Speaker 1: as a young girl being warned to stay away from

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Speaker 1: his house. With that many women he's accused of, I

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Speaker 1: cannot believe that it has taken this long to arrest

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Speaker 1: him or find him. It's difficult to hear from the

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Speaker 1: courtroom microphone, but Kohler tells the judge he is not guilty.

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Speaker 1: You are hearing from our friends at CBS Miami. That

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Speaker 1: was Peter Dinch speaking guys. When the neighbors say I

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Speaker 1: wore my children to stay away from him, you know

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Speaker 1: what's freaky about that? My husband, David has relatives in Florida,

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Speaker 1: where doesn't really matter, but they were telling me when

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Speaker 1: we were ready to get together their home. They were

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Speaker 1: pointing across the street and singing, that guy is really

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Speaker 1: weird because one, two, three, and four, and we just

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Speaker 1: stay away from him. And he's always been that way,

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Speaker 1: and the other neighbors have commented on it to them.

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Speaker 1: You know what's amazing. Cloyd Steiger, Seattle PD homicide author

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Speaker 1: Seattle's Forgotten serial killer, Gary Jean Grant. You get a

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Speaker 1: gut feeling, not always, but a lot of times, Like

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Speaker 1: when I would be in court Cloyd twice a week,

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Speaker 1: there'd be in a RAMI calendar at the beginning of

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Speaker 1: the week on Monday, with like one hundred plus new

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Speaker 1: felony cases, we'd usually pick another day during the week

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Speaker 1: as a plea calendar for anybody that wanted to plea,

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Speaker 1: clearing the way for whoever was left standing would be

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Speaker 1: going to trial on the trial calendar in a week.

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Speaker 1: Certain people, certain defendants, you know, no problem, you jack

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Speaker 1: a carfine, you know you got an ounce of pot,

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Speaker 1: who cares blah blah, shoplifted, pay restitution, and you will

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Speaker 1: clear your record. But would be certain people, Cloyd, certain people,

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Speaker 1: and I would lock eyes with them across the courtroom

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Speaker 1: and I would just know. I can't describe it, Cloyd.

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Speaker 1: I would know I'm gonna have to try him because

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Speaker 1: he's not gonna plead, and if he gets out, he's

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Speaker 1: going to kill somebody. It's just a feeling. It's just

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Speaker 1: an instinct. And I didn't really get it that often,

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Speaker 1: you know, but I would get it, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I really believe it is something born of thousands of

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Speaker 1: years of evolution. I can't really describe it, Cloyd, but

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Speaker 1: you probably felt it as a cop, yeah, all the time.

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Speaker 1: And a matter of fact, you don't have to be

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Speaker 1: a cop to feeling you just have to be a person.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's a primal instinct to built into people.

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Speaker 1: That's also built into animals in the wild. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's just that you know your raider goes up because

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Speaker 1: there's something going on there, putting up some vibe. And

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Speaker 1: I completely agree with you guys we are talking about

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Speaker 1: the so called pillowcase rapist, because first thing he would

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Speaker 1: do as his m o as attack the woman with

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Speaker 1: his face covered with a pillowcase, eyes slit in there.

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Speaker 1: And it reminds me just scary pictures that I've seen

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Speaker 1: Karen Starr. If you see that in your home, that

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Speaker 1: the first thing you do is you feel fear there's

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Speaker 1: an intruder in your home. They're masked, all you can

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Speaker 1: see your slits for eyes through a pillowcase. And I

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Speaker 1: guess that was the whole point of it, to instill terror.

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Speaker 1: And I think there's no doubt in my mind, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: if you think about what a pillowcase represents, you know,

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Speaker 1: just the fact that there's this person with this white

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Speaker 1: thing over their head, it's very frightening thing of the clan.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the fact that they would use a sheet

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Speaker 1: something like that where someone's coming in covered up with

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Speaker 1: this white thing over their head, and on top of that,

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Speaker 1: it's somebody who doesn't belong there. So terror, absolute terror

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Speaker 1: and paralysis. It's kind of when you're in a situation

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Speaker 1: like that, it's fight or a fight, and you just

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Speaker 1: free a lot of the times and can't defend yourself.

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Speaker 1: What's amazing is that someone who was eighty two years

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Speaker 1: old was able to fight him off. Yeah, and with

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Speaker 1: a dish towel dispenser. She fought him off with that,

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Speaker 1: and that tells me a lot about him right there.

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Speaker 1: What about it, Joe Scott Morgan, I mean, an eighty

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Speaker 1: two year old woman scared him off. This is after

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Speaker 1: he's raped that we know of forty plus women. But

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Speaker 1: this lady ran him off with a dish towel dispenser.

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Speaker 1: What does that tell you? Well, this guy's sitting on pins,

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Speaker 1: he's he's very cowardly obviously that he would attack, you know, this,

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Speaker 1: this helpless woman in the first place, and he doesn't

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Speaker 1: want to be found out and Nancy as a like

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Speaker 1: a thunderbolt. It's just kind of hit me. Just a

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Speaker 1: few moments ago, I'm you know, we talk about how

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Speaker 1: how young he was. I think that LEVI I had

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Speaker 1: mentioned that earlier when all of this started. Let's reflect

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Speaker 1: back just a second. As he has gotten older, as

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Speaker 1: with you know, a lot of men, he's probably experienced

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Speaker 1: some level of impotence and those things that are driving

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Speaker 1: in his mind that get him so sexually excited, he's

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Speaker 1: not physically capable of carrying out to act. And I

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Speaker 1: think that one of the wait, wait, stop, what did

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Speaker 1: you just say. I've never known you once in life

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Speaker 1: to pause or stutter, but could you repeat what you

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Speaker 1: just said? He's unable to perform? Who's that unable to perform?

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Speaker 1: The rapists that we're talking about? Okay, I thought he

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Speaker 1: left semen. Obviously he performed, Okay, So okay, Joscott, maybe

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Speaker 1: you and I have a different idea about performance. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what you mean by performance. You mean raping

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Speaker 1: somebody getting interaction? What are you talking about a performance?

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Speaker 1: Jo Scott? See you messed with the wrong woman right now.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean he was unable to perform? You

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Speaker 1: make it sound like I'm watching halftime at Super Bowl. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I'm specifically referring to his inability to perform physically, and

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Speaker 1: that's one of the ominous cloud. It's hanging over this,

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Speaker 1: as was mentioned earlier, because he is incapable probably a

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Speaker 1: performance the same level that he had. He's now begun

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Speaker 1: to work on a dungeon in his home because now

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Speaker 1: he wasn't taking people captive. If he is entertaining this thought,

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Speaker 1: he has to spend more time with him, and he's

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Speaker 1: developing this area in his house. This gives it a

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Speaker 1: much more ominous tone where he's at a point where

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Speaker 1: he'll have to spend more time with him in order

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Speaker 1: to facilitate this act as he's attempting to go through.

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, you just made perfect sense now that you

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Speaker 1: you know, Jackie. Why does you interrupt him? You're so rude. See,

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Speaker 1: if you'd let him finish, then we would have known

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Speaker 1: what he was talking about. But no, you had to

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Speaker 1: jump in like a steam locomotive and like cut him off.

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Speaker 1: Are you sorry you interrupted like that? Okay? Good? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: don't let that happen again. So, Joe Scott, I've been

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Speaker 1: thinking about this. Excuse me, Joseph Scott, Morgan, Professor Forensics,

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Speaker 1: Jacksonal State University. Joe Scott, I've been thinking a lot

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Speaker 1: about this dungeon, and I'm sure, Jason Oceans is just

426
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: like trembling with rage because a jury is going to

427
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: think the same thing. Why in the hay is he

428
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,239
Speaker 1: building a dungeon under his house? Yeah, the neighbors had

429
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: a freaky feeling, that's right, and we know why. So

430
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 1: now I get it. Joe Scott, you're saying that he

431
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: no longer wanted to break into somebody's apartment and rape them.

432
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: He wanted to kidnap them, bring them there, and then

433
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 1: what are you going to do with him at the end?

434
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: Just drop him off at the supermarket. He would have

435
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: had to have killed them, Joe Scott. Yeah, you're right,

436
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: and he would have to spend a tremendous amount of

437
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: time and energy. You know, you go back to this

438
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: idea of what he's fysically capable of, incapable of at

439
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 1: this point in his life. Can you imagine trying to

440
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: kidnap somebody, force them into a vehicle, transport them to

441
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 1: this location, and then keep them bound up. We've covered

442
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: hundreds of cases together, Nancy, and we know that many

443
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: times that this whole tying people up thing doesn't work out. Well,

444
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: you think about somebody that's advanced in years now how's

445
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: he going to facilitate this? And so it's a real

446
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: head scratcher that, you know, you have a lot of

447
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: these serial events that I've worked on throughout my career

448
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: where you know, these people they're kind of actively learning

449
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: as they go. It's like this guy just went to

450
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 1: this dead space, this paused, and then now he's going

451
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: to make this big physical leap, And it kind of

452
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: gives you an idea of how just voracious he was.

453
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: He wanted to satisfy these urges crime stories with Nancy Grace.

454
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: He terrorized, literally terrorized women from south of Florida throughout Florida.

455
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: He assaulted them from South Miami all the way up

456
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: to Deerfield Beach. Robert Kohler is accused of raping over

457
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: forty women in the eighties throughout the state of Florida.

458
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: Known in the news as the Pillowcase Rapist, police say

459
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: he used a pillowcase, sometimes a shirt or towel to

460
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: hide his face and his victims. Now, more than thirty

461
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: years later, detectives are tying him to the crimes by

462
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: using his own son's DNA. The key break in this

463
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: case came when Kohler's son was arrested last year, and

464
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: his DNA provided a close familiar match for the unknown rapists.

465
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: Police say DNA from a rape kitch from one of

466
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: the cases matched his son's DNA. Although the sixty year

467
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: olds Pombay resident was a convicted sex offender, the state

468
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: attorney says his crime was committed before there was a

469
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: mandatory collection of DNA from felony criminals joining us from

470
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: CBS Miami that was ambered Diaz. A lot of confusion

471
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: surrounding the pillowcase rapists. We know of at least forty victims.

472
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: And what's amazing is you should see the composite. You

473
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: can look at it yourself at crime online dot Com.

474
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: There is a composite drawing of him given by a

475
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: thirty six year old victim, and it looks identical to

476
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: him at that time, right down to the thin mustache

477
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: over the top of his lip, the no structure, the eyebrows,

478
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: the hair, the everything. Another question I've got, INDI why

479
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: they couldn't find him with that awesome composite is what happened?

480
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: Levipage Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. Isn't it true

481
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: they had Cohler in their colutches? And they let him

482
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: go with no jail time for a ninety one sex

483
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: battery conviction. What they yes, Nancy. In nineteen ninety he

484
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: was actually arrested for raping a woman and played guilty

485
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety one after DNA matched him to that rape,

486
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: and he was sentenced to probation, and his record indicates

487
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: that he violated the probation. He failed to complete a

488
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: psych exam, and he served one hundred and twenty days

489
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: behind bars. Nancy. But here's the details of that rape case,

490
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: and here's why some people are kind of pissed off.

491
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: At three am October fourteenth, nineteen ninety a woman in

492
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: Palm Beach called nine one one. She said she'd been

493
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: raped in her apartment, and she told law enforcement she

494
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: fell asleep. She woke up at three am by a

495
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 1: man in her bedroom and he threatened to kill her

496
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: and said, if you don't struggle, you won't get hurt.

497
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: He removed her clothing, put her arms behind her head,

498
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: placed something over her face, very similar to the other attacks,

499
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: and he raped her. And this account, like I said,

500
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: very similar to the other victims. And Broward and Miami

501
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: Dade counties, And at three thirty am, a police officer

502
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: pulled over Kohler. He was driving a white Camaro. He

503
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,479
Speaker 1: made an illegal U turn and they let him go

504
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: because there was no physical description of the rapist at

505
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: that time. They questioned him at a later date when

506
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: they said, wow, this is weird. When we pulled him over,

507
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: he was sweating, he was nervous, he was acting fidgety.

508
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,479
Speaker 1: He could be this rapist. So they questioned him. They

509
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 1: got his DNA. The DNA matched. But here is where

510
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: people are mad. He was never connected to the other

511
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: rapes in the eighties because they did not enter his

512
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: DNA into a database. And people there say it was

513
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: mandatory that they had to do, so they dropped the ball.

514
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: Oh dear lord, and I assume after that ninety one

515
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: case where he was convicted on sex battery, he committed

516
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: more rapes after that, it is believed. So Nancy, oh

517
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: my stars to add insult to injury, Cheryl a point,

518
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: get genealogist, the gene hunter. Isn't it mandatory? That? I mean,

519
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: that's why we have a DNA database. We've got a

520
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 1: fingerprint database, we have a DNA database, we have a

521
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: firearm database. Chara, that's the whole point of it. When

522
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: there's a rape, you enter the DNA profile into the database. Nancy, Yes,

523
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: that is the point of it. But unfortunately, there seems

524
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: to be situations when things fall through the cracks, and

525
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: this evidently was one of. You know, if it had

526
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: been mandatory in ninety one, he would have been caught

527
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: then for sure, and again in this situation, and it

528
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: proves how important it is that all of these violent crimes,

529
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: when we have these situations, it needs to be mandatory.

530
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: There needs to be a better protocol. I believe things

531
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: are improving, but through the years, we definitely have had

532
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: situations where things have fallen through the cracks, and this

533
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: is one of them. Unfortunately, you know, I want to

534
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 1: circle back to something off DNA to leave page. What

535
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: can you tell us about the dungeon? Why do they

536
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: think it was a dungeon and not just him building

537
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: a basement? Well, you don't, Nancy, in Florida, they don't

538
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 1: have basement, so that's what's so odd. And it was

539
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: described as a dungeon in progress and it was a

540
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: hollowed out space under his home. Why are you saying,

541
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: or no basements in Florida, they don't have basements in Florida.

542
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: It's not like other other places because you know it floods, hurricanes.

543
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: Let's go out to Oceans one, Jason, Oceans joining me

544
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: out of New York, Jason for a New Yorker, you

545
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: seem to know a lot about basements in Florida. My

546
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 1: brother lived in Orlando for over a decade and a

547
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: half and we've had property down in South Florida for

548
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 1: many years in the family. No basements based on the

549
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 1: water table. They're just not built as part of the structure.

550
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 1: You don't have them. Water table too close to the ground.

551
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: And you know that's why, that's why there are no

552
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 1: basements in Florida. Did not know that little known fact.

553
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: Now I can add that into my you know, my

554
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: encyclopedia facts that I can just pull out whatever I

555
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: need to. Wow. So he's down there digging a dungeon

556
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: that conjures up a lot of horrific images for those

557
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: of you just joining us. After years of investigation, finally

558
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: an arrest of the Pillowcase rapist. And I gotta tell you,

559
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: I know those victims are spitting mad right now because

560
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: this guy was arrested years into his decades of terror

561
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: with a sex battery and he was convicted, but the

562
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:17,720
Speaker 1: cops did not put his DNA into the database. Wow,

563
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 1: you know what about it, Karen start? Why do serial

564
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 1: offenders collect mementos? It's like, Karen, you've seen some of

565
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: my many, many, many scrap bucks I've made for the twins,

566
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,399
Speaker 1: and I put mementos in their tickets, photos, just all

567
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: sorts of memorabilia. Why does serial offenders do that? For

568
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,280
Speaker 1: the same reason that you did it, Nancy, Only yours

569
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: is harmless. It's actually a wonderful thing to recall what happened,

570
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: to have good memories so they'll know in the future.

571
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: That's why serial killers and rapists do the same thing.

572
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: They want to remember what happened, to relive it, actually

573
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: enjoy it, and feel good about their conflict. You know,

574
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: I think it's a way of reliving it and being

575
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: able to not forget any of the details. So, Levi Pace,

576
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 1: let me ask you, after the ninety one conviction on

577
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,800
Speaker 1: sex battery, did he go on to rate more people

578
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 1: after that? There's no reported rapes after that, Nancy, But

579
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: law enforcement in South Florida thinks that it's a possibility,

580
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: and they've created a hotline asking any other victims from

581
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: the eighties or nineties or even after to come forward

582
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 1: because they're trying to collect as many rape victims as

583
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 1: they can to bring as many rape cases forward as possible.

584
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: Just fyi, anyone sentenced to prison for sex battery is

585
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 1: ineligible for good time, and you have to serve the

586
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 1: entirety of your prison sentence day for day. What does

587
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 1: that mean, Jason Nations day for day relative to the

588
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: time back out from when it first happened. So he's

589
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 1: not going to get any credit for any good time

590
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: though now and so it's going to be a full sentence.

591
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 1: They're not going to cut it short. Good time is

592
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 1: usually an incentive for those inside too, you know, work

593
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 1: their sentence off. So it's in a Bureau of Prisons,

594
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: it adds to you know, control and of of the prisoners,

595
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 1: and here it's don't care. So there'll be a lot

596
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: of isolation and any infractions will be dealt with, you know, severely.

597
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. The so called pillowcase rapist

598
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:35,760
Speaker 1: Robert Eugene Cohler now behind bars where he belongs. Nancy

599
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 1: Grace Kron's story signing off Goodbye friend,