1 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: It's that time of year again, Mistletoe, Santa Claus being 2 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: crosby on heavy rotation in the soaper household and the 3 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: holiday shopping season. And with every year that goes by, 4 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: it becomes more and more likely that you'll be spending 5 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: more of your hard earned dollars on a little site 6 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: called Amazon dot com. Yes, Alexa has been playing a 7 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: lot of being crosby in our household. And if you're 8 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: a vendor who sells on Amazon, this is an all 9 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,479 Speaker 1: important time of year for your business. You're hoping for 10 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: a rush of Christmas sales and you'll be doing everything 11 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: you can to make sure that customers browsing on Amazon 12 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: can find your goods. And occasionally people go to really 13 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: really extreme lengths to try to get that edge over 14 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: all the other vendors competing for business. That's what our 15 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: story is about today, the rough and tumble vendor on 16 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: vendor hand to hand click to click combat going on 17 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: behind the scenes at Amazon Marketplace. Yeah, things like pumping 18 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: your customer reviews with five star ray eetings is a 19 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: way to game the algorithm and appear higher in the 20 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: list of search results when customers are looking for a 21 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: given product and counterfeiting popular items. That's something else that 22 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: happens all the time. We'll tell you about Amazon's never 23 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: ending quest to shut down this activity. It's like an 24 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: epic game of whack a mole, where just as Amazon 25 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: manages to crack down on one kind of bad behavior, 26 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: another practice springs up in its place. But first, let's 27 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: explain what exactly is Amazon Marketplace. Yeah, the name might 28 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: not sound familiar, but if you shopped on Amazon, chances 29 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: are you've already browsed products being sold on the marketplace. 30 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: Amazon operates like a traditional retailer such as Walmart or Target. 31 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: They buy things in bulk at wholesale prices and resell 32 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: them to shoppers. But it also operates like a consignment shop. 33 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: It lets more than two million merchants post their own 34 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: things on its site and give Amazon a cut of 35 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: each sale. That's the marketplace and is a major part 36 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: of Amazon's business. By letting third party merchants sell goods 37 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: on its marketplace, Amazon has been able to expand that's 38 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: inventory far more quickly than it would have been able 39 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: to if it operated only as a traditional retailer that 40 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 1: buys stocks and then sells its own merchandise. In an 41 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: annual letter to shareholders, CEO Jeff Bezos said that marketplace 42 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: sales account for nearly half of all units sold on Amazon. Yeah, 43 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: the marketplace is fifteen years old, but because of the 44 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: way all the search results in Amazon are listed, it's 45 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 1: not always clear which items are being sold by Amazon 46 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: and which are being sold by independent merchants. A lot 47 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: of our listeners probably buy from marketplace every week and 48 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: and may not even know they're doing it right, But 49 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: one of the best ways you can tell that a 50 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,119 Speaker 1: given product is coming from the marketplaces by the customer reviews. 51 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: It's hard to overstate just how important these reviews are 52 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: for vendors, how much lots of great reviews helps them 53 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: boost sales, and how much negative reviews can really sink 54 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: a product. Reviews are the currency of Amazon. That's right. 55 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: Amazon really can't afford for shoppers to stop trusting the 56 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: authenticity of reviews. A recent report from the research from 57 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: feedwisor found that nine of Amazon shoppers wouldn't buy a 58 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 1: product at all if at a fewer than three stars. 59 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of incentive to try to gain 60 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: the system, especially on Amazon, which drives so much more 61 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: commerce than other sites, and that's where all these underhanded 62 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,119 Speaker 1: tactics really come into play. At stake are the billions 63 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: of dollars people spend on Amazon Marketplace every year, and 64 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: as we do more and more of our shopping on 65 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: the internet, the stakes are really only getting higher. I'm 66 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: Brad Stone and I'm Spencer Soper, and in this week's 67 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: episode of Decryptid, we'll hear from some of the people 68 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: who make Amazon Marketplace work. We'll hear from a vendor, 69 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: someone who has faced threats to his business because of copycats, 70 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: as well as one of Amazon's top reviewers to understand 71 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: just how influential those customer reviews can be. And we'll 72 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: off to the businesses trying to spot and stop customers 73 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: from getting duped by the fake reviews. Let's start by 74 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: taking a trip to South Carolina. Come in, all right, 75 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: so you're ready to talk Amazon reviews totally. It's my 76 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: favorite topic and you don't know what to do with me. 77 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 1: That's me arriving in Greenville, South Carolina to meet you 78 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: sell A Houseman. Just Sella is a top reviewer for Amazon, 79 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: and she's even written a book about it called Naked 80 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: Truths about getting Product reviews on Amazon dot com. Seven 81 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: insider tips to boost sales. One of the first things 82 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: to Sella explained to me is why these reviews matter 83 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 1: so much to merchants. A cool side effect of these 84 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: reviews is that sellers can get direct feedback on what 85 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: their customers like and don't like about their products. But 86 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: the real reason is landing a high ranking in Amazon 87 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: search results. Here's Gacella. This is a computer system that 88 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: works purely on algorithms. So the second you go and 89 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 1: buy any product, the sales ranking of this product is 90 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: going to improve. At the same time. You may designed 91 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:27,280 Speaker 1: to review this product. Now it gets a review. And 92 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: here's why this is important. If a product has a 93 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: good sales rank and also a lot of reviews, Amazon's 94 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 1: s c O ranking pushes this product on its own. 95 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: Seeing her in her home in the Greenville suburbs, ge 96 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: Sella comes off like a college professor, passionate about her 97 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: subject matter and eager to share her knowledge. We chatted 98 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: over coffee while her cats lurked nearby, and Gescella told 99 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 1: me that she first got interested in Amazon reviews as 100 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: a book author because she knew they would be key 101 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: to her success. So she figured the best way to 102 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: learn about them was to begin writing them herself. Being 103 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 1: a top reviewer on Amazon has to be a pretty 104 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: odd business to be in. Just Selah told you she 105 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: gets two fifty emails a month from sellers hoping she'll 106 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: write a good review of their products. Yeah, she's become 107 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: quite a magnet. And because she gets pitches from so 108 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: many sellers, she also has some insight on the schemes 109 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: they come up with to help boost their ratings. Here's 110 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: one anecdote she had about how she was approached by 111 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: a Chinese seller. They said, hey, we're going to offer 112 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: you a couple you buy this product for ten percent 113 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: of the price, some of them for one percent of 114 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:40,239 Speaker 1: the price, but you had to buy it was reduced ridiculously, 115 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: and then please review. If they went through the entire 116 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 1: is killed out top reviewers and they offered these some 117 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 1: digital device or Christmas lads in this time of the year, 118 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: they'd suddenly have a huge spike in which they sold 119 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: at one percent of the price, which Amazon ignores, sold 120 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 1: is sold regardless of how much yourself had. A huge 121 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: bag of a hundred and fifty product is coming in 122 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: over three days as a purchase oh, so this is 123 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: a key detail. Even if you buy something at a 124 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: steep discount, Amazon's algorithm does not care exactly. All Amazon 125 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: sees is that you paid for it. It doesn't matter 126 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: how much. Amazon is not a person. That algorithm says, 127 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: oh my god, this book is this product is in demand, 128 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: in demand, in demand, and it shows the same product 129 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: and all kinds of sites as if it were a 130 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: best seller. Other people see this product and they go, 131 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: oh my god, look at that product shoots up and 132 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: regiuss in the best seller category group area of vicinity. 133 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: And now you have the reviews coming in on top 134 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: of it. And that's when everybody else spies. And that's 135 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: why I think that Almason be the way with it, 136 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: because they realized what's happening. Okay, that last point is 137 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: really important. Last month, Amazon changed the rules for customer reviews. 138 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: Now Amazon gets to decide who's allowed to leave what 139 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: they call a quote incentivized review. That's right. Amazon is 140 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: something called the Vine program, and it's Amazon's way of 141 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: deciding which customers can receive promotional products and review them. So, 142 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: if I recall correctly, previously incentivized reviews were allowed, but 143 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: the reviewer had to disclose that they received the product 144 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:35,719 Speaker 1: at a discount for their review. The problem was the 145 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: disclosures were becoming so prolific on the site, so ubiquitous, 146 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: it was actually tough to find that authentic review from 147 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 1: someone who just bought the product with no strings attached exactly. 148 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: And some consumers are actually getting frustrated by seeing all 149 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: of these disclosures about getting free products, and that undermine 150 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: this review system. That's so important because for customers sometimes 151 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: the hardest part about buying something online is not being 152 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 1: able to see it and touch it first. Consumer reviews 153 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: help eliminate that guesswork, but only if they're authentic. And 154 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: we should point out that reviews aren't just important to 155 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: Amazon and their companies like Yelp and trip advisor and 156 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: eBay and open table that rely on customer reviews to 157 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: drive traffic, and they also grapple with complaints about gamesmanship 158 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: and authentic reviews. Yeah, the gamesmanship has been relentless. And 159 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: get this, just weeks after Amazon made those changes, Gessella 160 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: told me sellers are already finding ways around it and 161 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: are trying to keep Amazon in the dark so I 162 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: can approach from a Chinese game up who writes to me, 163 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,559 Speaker 1: please review this product. We will send you a gift card, 164 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: and then we pray that you don't tell. The phrase 165 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: we pray that you don't tell already implies that they 166 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: know they're doing the wrong thing. The same system is 167 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: happening as before. The band that gives me the product, 168 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: the gift card. I I'm buying the product, I'm driving 169 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: up the products rank, and then they want my review 170 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: and basically the same thing happened that before. Now we 171 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: put ourselves into Amazon's position. They probably know them. They 172 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: cannot say we're gonna stop selling gift cards, so that's 173 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 1: not gonna happen. Obviously they cannot. So what they do 174 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: is they come in break to Active and try to 175 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: find these reviews with the algorithm. And that's the only 176 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: thing that they can do. Now. Jo Selah wasn't the 177 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: only one to notice something fishy happening with Amazon's reviews. 178 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: So I took a trip to Brooklyn, New York. I 179 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: just do what I do. SEE have to do what 180 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: I think I can do what I think. I don't 181 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: know what I do. I just do without change. Before 182 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: we were all buying helps from Amazon around this time 183 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: last year, and we kept not noticing that it would 184 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: come really late, or it would come without Amazon packaging, 185 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: or it comes with stamps from foreign countries that we 186 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: didn't realize it was coming. So it looked really weird 187 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 1: and suspicious. That's MINGUI Minx companies called fake Spot. It's 188 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: a website that rates the authenticity of Amazon's product ratings 189 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: and reviews. Basically tells customers whether they can trust the ratings. 190 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 1: So an entire company dedicated to spotting fake ratings and reviews. 191 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,439 Speaker 1: It gives you some sense of just how widespread the 192 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: issue is. If there's a cottage industry developing around online 193 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: customer reviews. Yeah, and the timing of it to fake 194 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: Spot only launched last year, but it's already getting millions 195 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: of users. It works by cutting and pasting the u 196 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 1: r L for an Amazon product into its search engine. Here, 197 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: let me show it to you. Okay, so you've got these. 198 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: You've got an Omega fish oil up on Amazon dot 199 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: com and it's got three two reviews, mostly positive. It 200 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,839 Speaker 1: looks good. So how can fake spot help us? So here, 201 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna cut and paste the u r L for 202 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 1: this product. Go over to fake spot, which looks like 203 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: your normal search engine. You're you're entering the r L 204 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 1: into a search bar and you click analyze Wow, an 205 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 1: F grade of failing grade, just like an F on 206 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: a term fail. The Omega fish oil with three two 207 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: reviews and four and half stars, that those were bogus. Yes, 208 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: So if you just counted on Amazon reviews alone as 209 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: a time strap shopper, you might see those reviews and 210 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: decided to buy the product. But if you take an 211 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: extra step over at fake spot, you might have second thoughts. 212 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: And I picked that Omega three fish oil because Ming 213 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 1: said that healthcare products and beauty products in particular are 214 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: susceptible to fake reviews. My wife is getting all these 215 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: recommendations from our friends and like usually buy this cream 216 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 1: or by that oil. And as we started reading and 217 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: poking through the reviews, we realize that we weren't looking 218 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:03,319 Speaker 1: at reviews with with a more critical eye, and that 219 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: we were just randomly accepting that that five. You know, 220 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: this thing has one or two views and it has 221 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: four stars, it mustn't be good. So we just and 222 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: as you start digging in deeper, as when you realize, oh, 223 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: sometimes people leave a review, it says, oh, I just 224 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 1: got this product, will update my review, you know, once 225 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: I tried the product, but they will leave it four stars, 226 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 1: And like, well, you're leaving four stars from a product 227 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: we haven't try it. But I think being in tech, 228 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 1: you're probably trained to think about They started this in 229 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: every all each of us started to see patterns. For example, 230 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: you would see that everybody used the same language to 231 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: describe the product. So for example and beauty, almost every 232 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: review would say with things like oh my skin was 233 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: so soft and supple, or the reviews would all be 234 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: clustered around the same date and no of a suddenly 235 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: look like twenty people dropped the review on this on 236 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 1: one same day. It was like and these were like 237 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,959 Speaker 1: to us early early telltale sigence where something is wrong 238 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: or that the reviewers would leave seemingly long uh reviews 239 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: of the product, but it would make no mention specifically 240 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: of what the product was. It would just say I 241 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: loved it, I use it every day, It's fantastic, O 242 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: I reckon highly recommend everybody use it, with like, well, 243 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: that looks like a review that I'll go right for anything. 244 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: So I found two things interesting here. First, both ming 245 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: and gessella feel like these phony reviews are a fairly 246 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: new thing, like in the last year or two. That's interesting. 247 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: I mean, we've had customer reviews on the internet now 248 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: for twenty years. The probably have been fake reviews all along. 249 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: It's just that the stakes are so high and the 250 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: levels of online commerce are so significant now that the 251 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: problem is getting more attention exactly, becoming more prominent and 252 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: and and not getting washed out. The second thing is 253 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: Ming says, this product market for his business exists because 254 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: consumers are conditioned to respond to and trust products with 255 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: a lot of positive reviews. It's probably similar to the 256 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: Pavlovian response that we experience when we see the word 257 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: sale right. We feel like we're getting a good deal, 258 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: even if the price may not be all that great. 259 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: I fall for it all the time. And fake Spot, 260 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: which has created a hundred and fifty million Amazon reviews 261 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: to date, makes money from ad sales, but only enough 262 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: to maintain its web servers. Min said he and his 263 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: partners have some seed money, and they're primarily focused on 264 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: the product right now, and they worry about monetizing the 265 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: concept later. But here's how this search algorithm actually works. 266 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: The engine does two things. When you click for an analysis. 267 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: It goes and logs every review that the product has. 268 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: So let's say the product has five reviews, for example, 269 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: it will look through all five hundred reviews and then 270 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: at the same time, while I was looking for through 271 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: the reviews, it will then also take the profile of 272 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: each reviewer at all their reviews and his into account. 273 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: If you have a lot of unverified purchases, which our 274 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: purchases made outside of Amazon, but you leave the review 275 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: on Amazon, that's a big telltale sign for us. If 276 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: you have the date cluster thing, and so we have 277 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: things that we put in place to to track aggressive marketing. 278 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: So if you have a lot of date clusters, if 279 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: you have a lot of reviewers, then because we go 280 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: through the history. So let's say you have one reviewer 281 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: that posted a product A, and then as we go 282 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: through a check their history, we noticed that they were 283 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: on products see this category product D the other category 284 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: will know that they were a professional reviewer. Part of 285 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: the problem here has to be that there's just so 286 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: much for the merchants to gain as as well as 287 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: the reviewers who probably are enjoying their their freebees. Exactly, 288 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: they go hand in hand. Me and I talked about 289 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 1: how much the lure of the freebee is driving all 290 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: of this. We checked out the profile of one reviewer 291 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: who was really cleaning up this guy and I won't 292 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: name the name. Look at this review is starting from here. 293 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:07,919 Speaker 1: Here's another one on the twenty four. Here's not a 294 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: one of the twenty four. Here's a not a one 295 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: twenty four. Here's any one twenty four. Here's another one 296 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:17,639 Speaker 1: on the twenty four. So they're reviewing Spatula, pizza cutter, 297 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: garden Staples, EO plugs, Essential Oils, and two days two 298 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: days ago, drinking straws two more days ago. So you 299 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 1: look at this and you already can even if I 300 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: don't know who the person is in real life, I 301 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 1: can make you and I can make it an informed 302 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 1: judgment that says, who has time to sit down and 303 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: write ten reviews on ten different kinds of products in 304 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: ten different categories, And then two days ago did the 305 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: same thing on a bike pump. Who's got room for 306 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: all this? And they're all five stars? Love it? Love it, guys, 307 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: love it. I don't care if they are real people. 308 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: The engine books at this, and the engine will say 309 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: something is wrong with Ultimately, though, is it ever going 310 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: to be possible to catch all the fake reviews? Is 311 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,920 Speaker 1: fake spots algorithm or is Amazon search engine good enough 312 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: to capture all of them? When you're accompany as big 313 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 1: as Amazon, maybe it's like steering at large tanker. There's 314 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: only so much you could do. Fake reviews aren't Amazon's 315 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: only problem. The company is also fighting fake products from 316 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: entering the marketplace. And this is one of those persistent 317 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: issues that can be very difficult to really permanently put 318 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: an end to, but a can dent customer trust in Amazon, 319 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: and it's been in the press recently yet it has 320 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: Most notably, Apple filed the lawsuit last month against an 321 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 1: Amazon merchant that it alleges sold fake Apple products, some 322 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,880 Speaker 1: of them in safe, and Bergen Stocks announced it would 323 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 1: off selling its footwear and Amazon in Now Amazon is 324 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: upping the anti Earlier this month, Amazon filed to lawsuits 325 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: against its own vendors for allegedly selling counterfeits on its site. 326 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 1: This problem isn't just unique to Amazon. In China, Ali 327 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: Baba has had a knockoff problem for years. eBay probably 328 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 1: has just a big of a problem, but it doesn't 329 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: get as much attention, and it's it's it's bad for customers, 330 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: frankly because it hurts the merchants who are trying to 331 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: sell authentic products on sites like Amazon. Yeah. To get 332 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: a better sense of that, I spoke to Brett Rosenswag, 333 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 1: who sells something called the Urban Shelf on Amazon. It's 334 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: a product he invented himself, a small plastic shelf that 335 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: connects to a bed and you can store your cell 336 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 1: phone while it keys and other items close at hand 337 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: while sleeping. See, I'll pull it up here. Oh I see, 338 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: so it so Yeah. Well, so they're trying to disrupt 339 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: the lucrative night table industry, I see, by just replacing 340 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 1: it with this little kind of cafeteria tray thing that 341 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: you'd stick into your bed. Yeah, and I think they're 342 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: they're geared more towards the you know, bachelor or the 343 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: college dorm student, that sort of thing where there might 344 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: not even be room for a night's stance. Okay, So 345 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 1: how's Brett doing with the Urban Shelf? He says, sales 346 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,359 Speaker 1: of the Urban Shelf tend to spike in the summer 347 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: July and August, when students are getting ready for college, 348 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: and sales were growing, but then he noticed copycat products 349 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: selling on Amazon for much less than his Here's Brett 350 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:25,919 Speaker 1: telling me about how he decided to buy one of 351 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 1: these counterfeits to see it for himself. He got it 352 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: shipped to his home. When the package arrived, it actually 353 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: came in a box and the box had our label 354 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: super imposed on the ex chair of the box. So 355 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: they actually gone the distance to construct their own Urban 356 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: Shelf box for the Urban Shelf send it over and 357 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 1: it was also rand wrapped in nice I mean it 358 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: looked very you know, very professional, aside from few spelling 359 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 1: mistakes on there. You know, imitation is a sin, serious 360 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 1: form of flattery. I was a little adder, but at 361 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: the same time I was like, oh, these these rats 362 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 1: just stole my design. I feel I feel cheated. I feel, 363 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:13,439 Speaker 1: you know, like someone took my took kind of like 364 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 1: my baby in and and ran away with it. So now, 365 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 1: Brett said he checks Amazon every day for the Urban Shelf, 366 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: looking to see who's selling it. He keeps an eye 367 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: out for potential fakes. His biggest worries that the fakes 368 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: are inferior, so customers buying them who confused them with 369 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,880 Speaker 1: the original will be displeased and his product will get 370 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,160 Speaker 1: a bad reputation based on the knockle. Has he had 371 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: any success at all trying to keep these copycats off 372 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 1: off the web in general or Amazon in particular. Yeah, 373 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: in Amazon particularly, said he spotted counterfeits about five times 374 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,160 Speaker 1: and that Amazon is generally quick to knock them down 375 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,679 Speaker 1: after he reports them. They have an automated system, and 376 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: he said sometimes he's had to go through that system 377 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: and report the fakes multiple times, but generally Amazon is 378 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: quick to act. Well. At first, I was like, you 379 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: know what, this might go away, and me they just 380 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 1: have a few of them. Then after a month, I 381 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: I still saw that our sales started to dip a 382 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: little bit because people were buying this lower price shell. 383 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: So this got me concerned and we began to figure 384 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: out how to get them off of the listening so 385 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: I had. Eventually I ordered one as a test sample. 386 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: I received it in the mail, I took some pictures, 387 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: I sent it in to Amazon fraud department and ended 388 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: up getting that seller's listing removed. That's the only guaranteed 389 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: way that you can. You can make it happy. You 390 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: can call, you can, you know moan and the emails, 391 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: but they want to see physical evidence of an order, 392 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 1: which is a test by pictures of the fraudulent shell, 393 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:42,719 Speaker 1: pictures of the legitimate product, and actual concrete proof so 394 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: that you're they're not just kicking off some seller by 395 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: word of mouth. Given all these headaches of selling on Amazon, 396 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: it's pretty incredible so many merchants stick to the site. 397 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: But it's also not that surprising. I mean, it speaks 398 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: to how huge Amazon's customer bases and how large the 399 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,120 Speaker 1: commerce on the site is, and the fact that there's 400 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 1: really no other website in the Western world that comes 401 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: close to this kind of traffic. You can say that again, 402 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 1: Amazon attracts three hundred million shoppers and it's marketplace model. 403 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: That's pretty much anyone who wants to sell something get 404 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,199 Speaker 1: access to that giant pool of people. And it is 405 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 1: pretty easy for sellers. I mean, it's much less capital intensive, 406 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: time intensive, resource intensive than say opening up a traditional 407 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 1: brick and mortar store or even launching your own website 408 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: from scratch and then having to go market the site 409 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: yourself on on search engines like Google exactly. And because 410 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: of all that traffic Amazon brings these sellers, the money 411 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: to be made as one of these third party vendors 412 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: can be sizeable. Amazon has said more than seventy thousand 413 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: marketplace entrepreneurs had annual sales exceeding one hundred thousand dollars. 414 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: And there is a whole equosystem of other companies growing 415 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: up around these sellers to support them, to help turn 416 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: their distribution through Amazon into sustainable business. Yeah. In any 417 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: given month, dozens of Amazon merchants can be found sitting 418 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 1: in hotel conference rooms in Las Vegas, Seattle, and Los 419 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: Angeles swapping ideas and listening to consultants discussed strategies. I 420 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: actually caught up with one such consultant, Eric Heller E 421 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: R I C H E L L E R and 422 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: your title with Marketplace Signition CEO and founder. Eric actually 423 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: used to work at Amazon, so he gives his clients 424 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: tips from the inside. At Amazon, Eric used to manage 425 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,400 Speaker 1: the company's merchant strategies, but now he advises them independently 426 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: through his company called Marketplace Ignition. Even when I got there, 427 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:38,479 Speaker 1: in that was well known even then, that idea of 428 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,239 Speaker 1: the virtuous cycle at Amazon of adding selection, and by 429 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 1: adding selection, you add you add traffic because people want that, 430 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: and then you add scale and and you know, add 431 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: nose until you get to the next level, and you 432 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: sort of level up the site and you can lower 433 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 1: price and that will bring more people and start the 434 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: cycle over again. The marketplace was of the ways Amazon 435 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 1: was able to grow its product offering so fast. It 436 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: was really clear even early on that people were always 437 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,360 Speaker 1: searching for items that we just couldn't stop fast enough. 438 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: You know, we started with just books, music and books 439 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: and books music video and the books music video DVD. 440 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: And as we started to just add in, you know, 441 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: let's try and consumer like tracks, let's try that. Thinks 442 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: it was amazing what the search terms would tell you 443 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,400 Speaker 1: people still wanted and you couldn't grow that possibly fast enough. 444 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 1: What's interesting is that, in comparison with the early days 445 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: of the marketplace, he says he's now seeing online merchants 446 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,400 Speaker 1: paying ever more attention to getting good product reviews. So 447 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: here's another person saying that's a new development. Here he 448 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: is again, we've seen a complete shift over the last 449 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: six to eighteen months where brands will come and we'll 450 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: say you've got to help us with Amazon and say, oh, okay, 451 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: are you having distribution challenges there? And they'd say, no, 452 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: you know, we're being until we need to be more 453 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 1: involved with Amazon because products have bad reviews. So there's 454 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 1: a stat that Amazon talks a lot about. You've seen, 455 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: and it's been around, probably in some form or fashion. 456 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,439 Speaker 1: I can remember um since since I was there, but 457 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: I have seen it recently to that a dollar on 458 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: Amazon Translate send us more than seven dollars off Amazon 459 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: in terms of influence sales. But you know, the good 460 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: the good reviews on Amazon help you elsewhere. I also 461 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 1: asked Eric about preventing fake reviews, something we already heard 462 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 1: Ming and Jocela talking about earlier. Can Amazon ever get 463 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: full control over this? This is always going to be 464 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: bleeding edge and they're gonna be people pushing the edges 465 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: of this system. If you said, do I think that 466 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: at scale this is going to UM, this is going 467 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: to influence UM Amazon to a point where we should 468 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 1: all be concerned. I think Amazon has tamped down on 469 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: the biggest component, and I think there will be some 470 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: of this happening at the peripheral UM. I do think 471 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: it will be harder for someone to get to scale 472 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: using a system. We're getting a gift card. It's just 473 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: hard to get a thousand great reviews that way, you know, 474 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 1: I still think, for example, that there's probably gonna be 475 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: review clubs going on. It'll be hard to track. I 476 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 1: think what you're talking about with gift cards still going 477 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,439 Speaker 1: to be hard to track. And I think further the 478 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: idea that you won't be able to really advertise that 479 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: you're doing that without risking getting a lawsuit from Amazon. 480 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 1: I think we'll will help tamp down some of it 481 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,399 Speaker 1: as well, but I think it will probably continue to 482 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 1: exist and it will be a cat and mouse game. 483 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: So what do you think, Brad, You're gonna take an 484 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: extra critical look at those reviews this year when you 485 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: shot for the Twins on Amazon? Or do you think 486 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: you'll be cutting and pasting U r L s into 487 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: fake Spot? Well? Fake spot is a great tool, and 488 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: I'm appreciative that you pointed it out to US Spencer, 489 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: but I think it's unlikely that Amazon's hundreds of millions 490 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,520 Speaker 1: of customers will will go to another site to bet reviews. 491 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: I mean, I think you know, one of the reasons 492 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,919 Speaker 1: why people do flock to Amazon is because it's simple, 493 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: it's easy to use it, have their payment info stored, 494 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 1: it's one stop shopping, and they never have to leave 495 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: their house. So you know, ultimate the Amazon has to 496 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: keep pursuing these bad actors who exploit its platform, and 497 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: we've seen them make some aggressive changes and big changes 498 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: to the platform. But do you think that they're ever 499 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 1: going to be able to fully contain this problem? Maybe not. 500 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 1: I mean it's like everything on the internet. You know, spam, 501 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,400 Speaker 1: you know, misinformation. It's a cat and mouse game and 502 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: you know, and this is sad to say, but I 503 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 1: think that consumers have to get a little smarter about 504 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 1: online reviews. I mean we can no longer take them 505 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 1: as genuine expressions from other customers. I mean, they are 506 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: what they are, and some reviews might not be authentic. Uh, 507 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 1: some might be gamed, and it might be, in effect, 508 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: just another form of marketing. And that's it for this 509 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: week's episode of decryptod. Thanks for listening, and tell us 510 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: have you ever had an experience with fake reviews or 511 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: products on Amazon? You can write to me on Twitter. 512 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 1: I'm at brad Stone and I'm at Spencer Soper. And 513 00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: if you're not a Twitter user, you can also write 514 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: to our producer or Pio or even better, record a 515 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: voice memo and send it to her at p G 516 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: A D K A R. I at Bloomberg dot net. 517 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: If you haven't already subscribed to our show on iTunes 518 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts, and while you're there, 519 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: please take a moment to leave us an authentic rating 520 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: and review. It really helps. This episode was produced by 521 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: Pia Gutkari aki Eto, Liz Smith and Magnus Hendrickson, and 522 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: Emily Buso edited Spencer Soper's accompanying print story on the 523 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: Amazon Marketplace, which you can check out at Bloomberg dot com. 524 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: Slash Technology Alec McCabe as head of Bloomberg Podcasts. We'll 525 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: see you next week.