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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George

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Speaker 1: Nordy with Mitch Horowitz. We'll take calls with Mitch next hours.

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Speaker 1: So get ready, all things paranormal. Let's talk about extrasensory perception. Mitch,

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Speaker 1: how do people have this incredible gift? You know, it's remarkable, George.

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Speaker 1: We've got about ninety years of academically based evidence at

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Speaker 1: this point for ESP. It's replicable, it's real, it's statistically bulletproof.

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Speaker 1: And I mentioned earlier in the previous segment that there

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Speaker 1: was a study on precognition at Cornell. That study is

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Speaker 1: now a little over ten years old, and other parallel

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Speaker 1: studies were done because the researcher, to his credit, he

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Speaker 1: opened up his books, he showed his data to everyone.

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Speaker 1: He provided free software and a free instruction manual to

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Speaker 1: any researchers who wanted to replicate the evidence. So we

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Speaker 1: now have a meta analysis, which is a pool of

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Speaker 1: different studies that Encomb is ninety studies at thirty three

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Speaker 1: different labs in fourteen different nations that show his results

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Speaker 1: of precognition to be confirmatory. Now dig this. The critics

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Speaker 1: always say the problem with ESP experiments is they can

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Speaker 1: never be repeated. That is not true. These experiments have

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Speaker 1: been repeated for decades, and this most recent one emanating

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Speaker 1: from Cornell, has been shown to be the real deal

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Speaker 1: in a meta analysis encompassing ninety experiments. This is no joke.

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Speaker 1: ESP is real. Well, my aunt back in the sixties

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Speaker 1: was convinced to that doctor Shafika Corregula who changed her

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Speaker 1: entire practice Mitch from psychiatry to studying telepathy and ESP,

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Speaker 1: and she was totally convinced that this was the real deal. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The thing I'm hoping is that now that the UFO

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Speaker 1: thesis has gone mainstream, it may help us open up

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Speaker 1: some of these other fields because ESP research is actually

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Speaker 1: really inexpensive to do. But regard artless, it's very hard

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Speaker 1: for people to raise money for a Universities don't want

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Speaker 1: to sponsor it, and so forth. It's very difficult for

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Speaker 1: people who were trying to protect their reputations to get

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Speaker 1: involved in these kinds of studies. But I'm hoping that

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Speaker 1: the funding is going to open up and the intellectual

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Speaker 1: atmosphere is also going to loosen up. What about the occult.

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Speaker 1: Tell us about that, well, the occult occult is simply

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Speaker 1: a word that comes from the Latin term occultists, meaning

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Speaker 1: secret or hidden. It was a word that came into

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Speaker 1: use during the Renaissance when people were rediscovering the spirituality

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Speaker 1: of the ancient world. Spirituality of Egypt, Rome, Greece, Persia,

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Speaker 1: and all these priesthoods and mystery religions and initiatory traditions

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Speaker 1: had vanished during the Dark Ages or the early medieval period,

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Speaker 1: and they were trying to figure out what to call

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Speaker 1: this material. So they settled on this term occultists or

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Speaker 1: what we call a cult, just meaning hidden or secret.

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Speaker 1: Didn't have any sinister connotation at all. It was just

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Speaker 1: a neutral term. Over the years, it's taken on a

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Speaker 1: rap but I use it all the time because it

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Speaker 1: has historical integrity, and I don't think we should just

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Speaker 1: give up terms like that to people who use them

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Speaker 1: in a negative way. The Nazis gave it a bad word,

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Speaker 1: didn't they. Yeah, I think that this is an ongoing controversy,

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Speaker 1: and probably the Nazi occult connection gets really exaggerated. I

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Speaker 1: have an essay on medium called the Occult and Fascism,

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Speaker 1: a brief comment, and I try to sort this out

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Speaker 1: because I think it really gets exaggerated. And the fact

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Speaker 1: is most of the people who were considered occultists, who

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Speaker 1: were close to the Third Reich, they were killed. A

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Speaker 1: man who was known as Hitler's astrologer was killed en

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Speaker 1: route to the concentration camp at Buchenwald. Freemasons were jailed,

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Speaker 1: Theosophists were jailed. You know, people think that people at

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Speaker 1: the upper echelons of the Third Reich were dabbling in

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Speaker 1: the occult and yeah, there's some truth to that. There's

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Speaker 1: some truth to that. But the fact is all the

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Speaker 1: involved parties they were killed, they were shunned, they were

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Speaker 1: murder It's overstated. It's overstated, and that's something I write

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Speaker 1: about in that little essay. What does the law of

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Speaker 1: attraction mean? Do you mention? Well, it's funny. It's not

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Speaker 1: a term that I use much myself, because I don't

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Speaker 1: like the implication that we only exist under one mental

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Speaker 1: super law. It may be that consciousness is the ultimate

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Speaker 1: arbiter of reality, and I do personally believe that's true,

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Speaker 1: but there's a lot of intervening laws and forces, and

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Speaker 1: in this world that we live in, we are conscripted

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Speaker 1: to experience many different laws and forces that can seem

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Speaker 1: to disrupt or yet in the way of the law

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Speaker 1: of mental causation, and this shouldn't surprise us. Gravity is

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Speaker 1: a law, it's universal, but you'll experience gravity differently on

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Speaker 1: the Moon than you will on Earth or on Jupiter.

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Speaker 1: Water is always water, but based on surrounding conditions, it

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Speaker 1: can be a vapor, liquid, or ice. So we have

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Speaker 1: understand that these laws, these metaphysical laws, don't necessarily liberate

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Speaker 1: us from surrounding conditions. It's an important concept, But I

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Speaker 1: speak about mental causation hand in hand with other laws

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Speaker 1: that we have to live under, rather than just talking

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Speaker 1: about one mental superlaw, because very frequently we're not able

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Speaker 1: to access that state. You are a believer in positive thinking,

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Speaker 1: aren't you. Absolutely. I think it stands to reason that

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Speaker 1: we do measure events, We do select events through our attitudes,

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Speaker 1: through our psyches, through our natural senses, and I think

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Speaker 1: that actually plays a really concrete role in what happens

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Speaker 1: to us. You know, we've talked a little bit tonight

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Speaker 1: about quantum physics. All the founders of quantum physics back

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Speaker 1: in the day were considered philosophical idealists, so they believed

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Speaker 1: that we lived in a perception based reality. The people

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Speaker 1: who founded what we would consider world class science were

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Speaker 1: believers in perception as a key factor in determining what

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Speaker 1: reality you experienced. So I think the early positive thinkers

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Speaker 1: who were around before quantum physics quantum theory, I think

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Speaker 1: they had a really strong instinct for human nature. So

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Speaker 1: I dig all the early positive mind books. You know,

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Speaker 1: you and I have talked a lot about the Magic

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Speaker 1: of Believing by Bristol, and there's other books like that

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Speaker 1: that I think really had a huge, huge instinct for

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Speaker 1: the greater dimensions of human nature. And I am a believer.

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Speaker 1: What are your thoughts of the afterlife, Niche? That is

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Speaker 1: a really interesting question. You know. First of all, so

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Speaker 1: many people have had near death experiences and there's so

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Speaker 1: much testimony around it that we really have a record,

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Speaker 1: and that's incredibly important. I talk a lot about laboratory

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Speaker 1: based material, but the individual's experience is really really important

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Speaker 1: as well, and I trade never to lose sight of that.

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Speaker 1: It stands to reason that if we can prove the

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Speaker 1: sp in a laboratory setting, we have an extra physical existence.

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Speaker 1: We meet don't understand it. We are kind of on

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Speaker 1: our knees staring through a keyhole. But once you open

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Speaker 1: up the door to ESP and extra physicality, it stands

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Speaker 1: to reason that we have some existence that seems to

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Speaker 1: go beyond the physical. One of your chapters, it's called

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Speaker 1: the Man who destroyed skepticism. Who is that person? That's

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Speaker 1: our old friend James Randy who died. Yeah, James called

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Speaker 1: himself a skeptic. I maintain that James was a pseudo skeptic.

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Speaker 1: James would do injustice to the truth all the time

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Speaker 1: in order to upend some of the very things I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about. He would flat out deny that there was

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Speaker 1: evidence for ESP. He would misrepresent the research, sometimes very flagrantly,

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Speaker 1: of some of the key players. He would humiliate people.

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Speaker 1: He would speak in sound bites, he would speak in sarcasm,

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Speaker 1: rhetorical questions, all the stuff that's now so popular and

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Speaker 1: that runs riot over social media. And I think he

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Speaker 1: was a negative influence on the culture because we do

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Speaker 1: need skepticism. When I talk about all these different topics,

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Speaker 1: I need somebody to be tapping me on the shoulder

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Speaker 1: and saying to me, listen, you got that wrong. It

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Speaker 1: got that wrong. I want people to go into my

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Speaker 1: footnotes call me out if I'm exaggerating. We need skeptics,

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Speaker 1: but James created a very negative kind of pseudo skepticism,

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Speaker 1: and I write about that in the book. Was he

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Speaker 1: a believer in God? Do you know that? I really

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Speaker 1: don't know. I'd he'd have to be here for us

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Speaker 1: to have that exchange. He might have had some kind

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Speaker 1: of belief system, but he was dedicated to a belief

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Speaker 1: system that might be called materialism, which is just that

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Speaker 1: matter creates itself, and that the only game in town

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Speaker 1: is thought, cognition, flesh and bone, and you know, just

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Speaker 1: just common observation, and that anything that went outside of

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Speaker 1: that he considered fantasy. What are your thoughts of curses,

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Speaker 1: Mitch Well? I think that the human mind is very powerful.

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Speaker 1: Is it possible to curse other people? Yes, But I

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Speaker 1: also believe in reciprocity, and anything that we do to

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Speaker 1: another person reverberates back to us. I wouldn't touch any

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Speaker 1: kind of spell work that dealt with curses, and I

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Speaker 1: don't advise anybody to do so. Yeah, you can probably

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Speaker 1: do it, but you're going to suffer a terrible consequence.

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Speaker 1: Believe they're real. I do believe they're real. I think

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Speaker 1: that intention is very, very powerful, and you know, we

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Speaker 1: don't take that into account often enough. These questions come

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Speaker 1: into play most dramatically and when we're dealing with magic,

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Speaker 1: but we have to take into account intention when we're

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Speaker 1: going online. Insulting one another or being sarcastic or what

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Speaker 1: have you makes the individual feel shame, and then in

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Speaker 1: order to overcome the shame, he or she just goes

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Speaker 1: back to the bottle, takes another hit, keeps doing it.

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Speaker 1: That's why we kind of get into these grooves where

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Speaker 1: we're constantly mouthing off in rage all day online and

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Speaker 1: it really degrades us. And I think it degrades us

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Speaker 1: in ways that are much deeper than than we really understand.

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Speaker 1: It hits our self respect. On the top of the cover,

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Speaker 1: there's a little snippet by our friend Jacques Vallet. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate Jacqu's support. Jacques is, as many of

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Speaker 1: the Coast listeners know, as a pioneering computer scientist, and

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Speaker 1: I think today today's greatest living theorist of UFO phenomena.

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Speaker 1: It was really Jacques back in the late nineteen sixties

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Speaker 1: who pioneered the analysis of UFOs being interdimensional and told

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Speaker 1: me one time that there's there's a character in the

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Speaker 1: film Close Encounters that's based on Lacomb. Yeah, Lecombe and

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Speaker 1: and and I got to watch Close Encounters with Jaque,

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Speaker 1: which was exciting. It's kind of like, that's cool. Did

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Speaker 1: he know did he know that character was him? Oh? Yeah, Oh,

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Speaker 1: he knew all about it. Okay. He told me that

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Speaker 1: when he was on the set of Close Encounters, he

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Speaker 1: shared with Steven Spielberg his perspective that UFOs were probably

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Speaker 1: interdimensional versus extra terrestrial, and Spielberg agreed with him. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: what do you think I leaned towards the extra dimensional

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Speaker 1: thesis because our models of extra dimensionality are better developed

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Speaker 1: right now than our models of how craft could travel

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Speaker 1: across such unfathomable distances. I think it's actually easier to

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Speaker 1: defend the interdimensional thesis. They've learned. Are they physical or not? Yes,

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Speaker 1: they are physical. I think because something belongs to a

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Speaker 1: different dimension doesn't mean that it's not as physical and

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Speaker 1: as real as our own voices right now? Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: almost like a multiverse. Yeah, exactly like a multiverse. So

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Speaker 1: it's real, it's just that we're only able to perceive

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Speaker 1: these things at unique moments, were not altogether Sure why,

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Speaker 1: But the perception is absolutely real. There's there's nothing ethereal

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Speaker 1: about it. It's it's physical reality. It just belongs to

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Speaker 1: a different dimension. Fascinating. Sure, what's with us? His websites

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Speaker 1: are linked up at Coast to coastam dot com. His

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Speaker 1: latest book is called Uncertain Places, Essays on Occult and

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Speaker 1: Outsider Experiences. Are you writing another book on the occult?

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Speaker 1: Believe it or not? I am Georgia. I'm determined to

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Speaker 1: beat out Tommy for sleep deprivation. See so you love

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Speaker 1: this stuff? Yeah, I'm writing a book called Modern Occultism

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Speaker 1: that's going to come out next summer, and it's a

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Speaker 1: really epic history of the occult from late Antiquity up

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Speaker 1: through today. And it's very exciting to me because I

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Speaker 1: get to explore the lives, careers ideas of some people

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Speaker 1: I'm really interested in, like Manley P. Hall and metam

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Speaker 1: H people about ski among others. Are you a supporter

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Speaker 1: of witchcraft? Absolutely? I think witchcraft is one of the

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Speaker 1: most exciting developments on the spiritual scene of our generation.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we are witnessing a rebirth and to some

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Speaker 1: degree a reworking of what had been a tradition that

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Speaker 1: was either vanished or was very very deeply underground. And

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Speaker 1: it's incredibly inspiring and heartening to me that we can

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Speaker 1: gather threads from what our ancient ancestors were doing, rework

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Speaker 1: these threads, add to these threads, and create a modern tradition,

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Speaker 1: and it brings meaning to the lives of a lot

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Speaker 1: of people. We're going to take calls next hour with

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Speaker 1: Mitch Horowitz here on coast to coast, So get ready

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Speaker 1: to make your fingers do the walking, and Tom will

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Speaker 1: answer the phones. To be sure. The book on certain places.

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Speaker 1: Where do people get it, Mitch, You can get it

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Speaker 1: on Amazon or anywhere you buy your books. It's in print, digital,

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Speaker 1: and audio. Back to the Quigi board for a second.

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Speaker 1: I'm opposed to the Wuigi board. Still I haven't been convinced.

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Speaker 1: Maybe after reading your book, I will be, but it

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Speaker 1: still scares me a little bit. A lot of scary

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Speaker 1: stories over the Ouiji board, A lot of disturbing things

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Speaker 1: happen over the Ouiji board, but some good things as well.

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Speaker 1: There have been some extraordinary channel teachings, like the Seth teachings,

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Speaker 1: for example that Jane Roberts began handling Overuigi were the

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Speaker 1: Abraham teaching. So these experiments are not without risk. But

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Speaker 1: like all experiments, things can go wrong or there can

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Speaker 1: be extraordinary payoffs extraordinary indeed. But I don't know. Well,

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Speaker 1: I might bring one into the studio one Halloween and

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Speaker 1: maybe we'll go. That happened to me at Saint Louis

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Speaker 1: when I was doing my local show and it shut

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Speaker 1: down everything. We had cart machines, which we used to

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Speaker 1: play our commercials that way. Now everything's computer. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: that jammed up. That didn't work, the lights went out.

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Speaker 1: I had my producer take it out of the room

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Speaker 1: and everything went back on. Now. He gave it to

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Speaker 1: a guy in the newsroom who got fired a couple

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Speaker 1: days later. Wow. And we ran into him at a

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Speaker 1: nightclub about three weeks later and he said, ever since

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Speaker 1: I got that Wuiji board, and he said it in

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Speaker 1: a different phrase, he said, my life has been horrible.

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Speaker 1: All right, we'll scratch that idea. Maybe we'll do Tarot readings. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'd rather do that. Listen to More Coast to Coast

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Speaker 1: a m every week night at one a m. Eastern

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Speaker 1: and go to Coast to coast am dot com for

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Speaker 1: more