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Speaker 1: Why from our nations came this budget thing is going

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Speaker 1: to do nothing space forts. I still think it's interesting

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Speaker 1: President Trump not playing his cards yet headlines Policy and Politics,

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Speaker 1: colliding to Sound On with Kevin Currel, the insiders, the influencers,

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Speaker 1: the inside. I would rather see a congressional solution. It's

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Speaker 1: part of my DNA. The Senate map in looks a

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Speaker 1: lot different than it looked in. You really have a

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Speaker 1: divide within Team Trump. The president has to do exactly

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Speaker 1: what people seven here to do, which is to get

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Speaker 1: it done. He's Sound On with Kevin Cyril on Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: one and m h D two. Boltemore the eye word. No,

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Speaker 1: we're not talking about infrastructure. We're talking about impeachment. President Trump,

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Speaker 1: briefly addressing reporters earlier today at the White House, says

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Speaker 1: no deal on infrastructure, Speaker Pelosi unless you stop the investigations.

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Speaker 1: It was a dramatic day field of political theater here

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Speaker 1: in Washington, from the White House to Capitol Hill. We

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Speaker 1: have it all covered. Meanwhile, another busy day for Treasury

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Speaker 1: Secretary Stephen Manustion. He testified before the House Financial Services Committee,

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Speaker 1: Trade Tariffs, US m C, A U S, China, you

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Speaker 1: name it, he had to deal with it. Plus will

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Speaker 1: House Financial Services Committee Chairwoman Maxine Waters get President Trump's

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Speaker 1: tax returns, not if Treasury Secretary Manution has anything to

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Speaker 1: do with it. We're gonna break down all of the politics,

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Speaker 1: all of the policy, and yes, all of the eye

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Speaker 1: word with an all star panel joining us. Coming up

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Speaker 1: in the show via telephone, Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee. She's

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Speaker 1: a Democrat from Texas and a Judiciary Committee member. The

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Speaker 1: eye of the storm, of all of the investigations, and

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Speaker 1: his first time on the program. Douglas Holtz Eakin is

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Speaker 1: the former CBO director and now the president of the

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Speaker 1: American Action Forum. Were thrilled to have him here, as

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Speaker 1: we are with the front of the show, Adam Hodge,

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Speaker 1: former d n C communications director and a former Obama

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Speaker 1: era Treasury Department official. The drama today unfolding all throughout Washington,

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Speaker 1: and it was truly dramatic to watch just the back

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Speaker 1: and forth that unfolded at the White House. President Trump

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Speaker 1: saying that so long as there are investigations in and

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Speaker 1: in Democrats are saying that they are pursuing impeachment or

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Speaker 1: even talking about impeachment, he will not deal with them

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Speaker 1: on issues like infrastructure. Joining us here in studio. Adam Hodge.

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Speaker 1: He is former d n C Communications director. He worked

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Speaker 1: at the Obama Treasury Department. Now he is a senior

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Speaker 1: vice president at s K D Nickerbocker. And his first

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Speaker 1: time on the program. Douglas Holtz Eakin. He's the former

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Speaker 1: CBO director and now president of the American Action Forum,

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Speaker 1: a conservative echo atomic think tank. Here in town. Doug Well,

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Speaker 1: no deal because of talk of the eye word, as

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Speaker 1: the President put it, Yeah, I guess I'm now officially

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Speaker 1: old and jaded. Um. I didn't find any of this

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Speaker 1: particularly surprising. I mean, if you've watched the president in action,

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Speaker 1: he had a little bit of loss in the courts.

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Speaker 1: So he's in this showdown with the Democrats, and what

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Speaker 1: does he do anytime he thinks he's a little bit

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Speaker 1: weaker than he should be. He escalates, And so he

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Speaker 1: set out to just escalate deliberately. He's done it with

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Speaker 1: the Chinese, He's now done it a couple of times

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Speaker 1: with Congress, and he did it in exactly the context

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Speaker 1: that you would expect because he'd like to get U

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Speaker 1: S m c A and he doesn't really need it.

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Speaker 1: The Democrats would like to get infrastructure and they need

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Speaker 1: him to get it, and so this was a disposable day.

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Speaker 1: I mean, so he just blew it up. Adam. I

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Speaker 1: was struck by this because last night President Trump indicating

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Speaker 1: that it was because of U s m c A,

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Speaker 1: was the res in and ratification of U s m

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Speaker 1: c A or and after two point oh was the

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Speaker 1: reason that he wouldn't be able to deal with Democrats.

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Speaker 1: Then we get wind that it was because of impeachment chatter,

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Speaker 1: and in fact get this. We're gonna talk more about

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Speaker 1: Treasury Secretary Manution coming up on the show. But I

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Speaker 1: was outside of the House Financial Services Committee hearing room

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Speaker 1: where Secretary Monution was testifying before Chairwoman Maxine Waters committee.

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Speaker 1: She had to step out of the hearing for this

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Speaker 1: Democratic caucus. Meaning I'm thinking to myself, why is Chairwoman

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Speaker 1: Waters stepping out of the hearing room. Why because they

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Speaker 1: had this caucus meeting talking about impeachment. Then Chuck and Nancy,

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Speaker 1: as the President refers to them, roll up to the

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Speaker 1: White House for seven minutes, as my colleague Jennifer Jacobs

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Speaker 1: reports on the Bloomberg terminal, and well, I'll just let

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Speaker 1: President Trump say how it went down from his perspective.

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Speaker 1: Here's the President speaking in the Rose Garden earlier today,

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Speaker 1: Senny Schumer speaker Pelosi, I want to do infrastructure. I

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Speaker 1: want to do it more than you want to do it.

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Speaker 1: I'd be really good at that. That's what I do.

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Speaker 1: But you know what, you can't do it under these circumstances.

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Speaker 1: The circumstances Adam being the eye word well, and I

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Speaker 1: think what you heard from Nancy Pelosi in Chuck Schummer

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Speaker 1: today when they got back to the Capital was that

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Speaker 1: they just felt from it was clear that this was

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Speaker 1: a set up for them from from the you know,

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Speaker 1: the administration. The fact that they had signs printed ready

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Speaker 1: to go in the in the Rose Garden tells you

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Speaker 1: everything that they said of you know, how the day

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Speaker 1: was going to go. I think the President with felt

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Speaker 1: some heat, and we heard this in the last twenty

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Speaker 1: four hours when he was pressed for details and actually

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Speaker 1: how he would pay for the infrastructure bill, he sort

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Speaker 1: of waved around and then changed the topic because that's

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Speaker 1: a sticky issue for the White House and for the administration.

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Speaker 1: I think you know what Nancy Pelosi in Chuction and

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Speaker 1: the Democrats have said and the trying to show we're

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Speaker 1: willing to cooperate, We're willing to find areas where they

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Speaker 1: can work with the president. That helps give some cover

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Speaker 1: to some of the sort of red state Democrats who

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Speaker 1: want to be able to show that they're willing to

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Speaker 1: cooperate and find areas of cooperation. Um, days like today

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Speaker 1: make it a lot harder for them, uh to sort

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Speaker 1: of come back and and and really negotiate with the

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Speaker 1: President in good faith. And I think the President also

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Speaker 1: very deliberately made Nancy Pelosi's life much more difficult. I

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Speaker 1: mean that was when she came out and said he's

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Speaker 1: involved in the cover up. He thought, Okay, that's a

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Speaker 1: response to the pressures in her caucus. I'll go right

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Speaker 1: after her and see who she's gonna pick you. And

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Speaker 1: that's exactly how he behaves. Douglas Holtz Eke and former

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Speaker 1: CBO director and now president of the American Action Forum,

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Speaker 1: a conservative economic think tank here inside of the belt Way.

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Speaker 1: He's referring to Speaker Pelosi's playing political referee of sorts

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Speaker 1: between progressives in her party about whether to pursue impeachment

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Speaker 1: and Adam, you mentioned the sign. The sign it kind

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Speaker 1: of was a giveaway, folks. I mean, if you're going

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Speaker 1: to act like it's a surprise, maybe not time. I'm

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Speaker 1: sorry that should be funny. But the sign that we're

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Speaker 1: talking about is the President speaks in the Rose Garden

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Speaker 1: behind the Presidential Podium with the Presidential Seal, and there's

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Speaker 1: this like beautifully c span ready sign that says Mueller investigation.

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Speaker 1: By the numbers, thirty million dollars, spent, hundred plus subpoenas,

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Speaker 1: six hundred seventy five days, five plus witnesses, eighteen angry Democrats,

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Speaker 1: no collusion, no obstruction. I mean, it is remarkable. But

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Speaker 1: I do want to just quickly play with Speaker Pelosi said,

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Speaker 1: and then I'll get you guys take because Speaker Pelosi

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Speaker 1: commented on this when she got back to the capital,

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Speaker 1: like literally moments after the President spoke here, Speaker Pelosi,

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Speaker 1: hey just took a pass. And it just makes me

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Speaker 1: wonder why why he did that. In any event, I

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Speaker 1: pray for the President of the United States, and I

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Speaker 1: pray for the United States of America. Prayers at him.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're we're all praying every day and then

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Speaker 1: we wake up, you know, as far as as we

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Speaker 1: go in in the U think it's a little like it.

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Speaker 1: It's a little both sides. It's a little theatrical. We

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Speaker 1: got printed props, prayers come on. I mean, the one

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Speaker 1: thing that I think obviously was that it was not

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Speaker 1: lost in Democrats. The key numbers are missing from the

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Speaker 1: sign over the thirty five people who were indicted as

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Speaker 1: part of the Molar investigation, and the fact that Paul

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Speaker 1: Manafort the assets sees equals thirty five million dollars, so

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Speaker 1: you know, the numbers don't quite add up there. I

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Speaker 1: think the one thing that shouldn't be lost in folks though,

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Speaker 1: because when Nancy Plosi was first elected speaker in in

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Speaker 1: UH two thousand and six, that there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of Democrats clamoring for impeachment about for George Bush down

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Speaker 1: around the Iraq War. She was able to walk a

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Speaker 1: fine line of calling for a real oversight, real investigation

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Speaker 1: into the administration while also passing a minimum wage and

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Speaker 1: doing other legislation. I think that's what you try to

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Speaker 1: see them do that that dance today, and I think

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Speaker 1: you know, coming out of the Caucus meeting, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of fear about impeachment. Coming out you saw a

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Speaker 1: lot of Democrats. Actually some of the air let out

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Speaker 1: of that impeachment balloon. I think there's a little bit

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Speaker 1: more time for that to run out. Smart coming up,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk much more policy now that the political

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Speaker 1: theatrics have uh somewhat been reverberating here inside of the

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Speaker 1: belt Way. Treasury Secretary Steve the Manuition busy day on

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Speaker 1: Capitol Hill panel stays Doug Holtzken and Adam Hodge. You

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Speaker 1: can download the Sound On podcast on Apple iTunes, Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: dot Com, or get the Bloomberg Business app. You can

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Speaker 1: also find us on Radio dot Com, I Heart Radio,

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Speaker 1: and Spotify. I'm Kevin CURRELLI you're listening to Bloomberg one.

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Speaker 1: This is Sound On with Kevin Cyrilling on Bloomberg one

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Speaker 1: and one oh five point seven F M h D

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Speaker 1: two Boltimore. I'm for impeachment. I've always been for impeachment.

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Speaker 1: I've never backed up. I've never changed my mind. I

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Speaker 1: think it should be impeached. Yeah, she thinks he should

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Speaker 1: be impeached. The eye word, the eye word, as President

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Speaker 1: Trump describes it at the White House in the Rose

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Speaker 1: Garden earlier today. That's House Financial Services Committee Chairwoman Maxine

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Speaker 1: Waters doubling down outside of a very very busy day

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Speaker 1: in the House Financial Services Committee hearing room in ray

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Speaker 1: Burns House Office building. I was there. I was there,

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Speaker 1: is all the drama unfolded. I was standing out in

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Speaker 1: the hallway. We're getting ready to go live from Bloomberg Television,

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, like Secretary Monution of the

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Speaker 1: Treasury Department, he's testifying inside of the hearing room, and

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Speaker 1: I look over my shoulder and I'm thinking, Chairwoman Waters,

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Speaker 1: what does she doing? Walking out of his hearing? And

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Speaker 1: she had to go to a Democratic Caucus meeting where

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Speaker 1: Speaker Pelosi convenes it to talk about impeachment chatter. Just

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Speaker 1: like an hour or so before Speaker Pelosi and Senate

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Speaker 1: Minority Leader Chuck Schumer head to the White House for

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Speaker 1: what was supposed to be a bipartisan meaning on infrastructure.

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Speaker 1: It lasted seven minutes. Seven minutes in the White House,

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Speaker 1: President Trump storms out and talking infrastructure is done. The

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Speaker 1: President says he doesn't want to do it because well,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't like the investigations, he doesn't like the impeachment. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: they're talking trade policy, and that's where I want to

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Speaker 1: take this conversation now because enough of the political theater.

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Speaker 1: Doug Holtzken is in the House. He is the president

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Speaker 1: of the American Action Forum UH and the former CBO

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Speaker 1: director UH. And Adam Hodge, former d n C Communications director,

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Speaker 1: now an s v P at s K D. Knickerbocker

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Speaker 1: and previously served in the Obama Treasury Department. So let's

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Speaker 1: walk out, folks. Adam gonna start with you, how do

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Speaker 1: you think the Treasury Secretary handled the pressure and the

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Speaker 1: pushback from Republicans regarding these tariffs. I think what you've

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Speaker 1: seen is, uh, there the Republican members in their own

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Speaker 1: districts are actually hearing from their own constituents. UM. And

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Speaker 1: it's it's not lost on on me, and I'm certainly

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Speaker 1: not lost on a lot of Republicans have got to

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Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable about this fifteen billion dollar bailout for for

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Speaker 1: for farmers. UM. You know, I'm old enough to remember, uh,

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Speaker 1: where a lot of Republicans sort of were had this

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Speaker 1: huge opposition to government investment in government banking and and

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Speaker 1: and and and bailing out. Um. You know, people are

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Speaker 1: on the country. This is a clear fifteen dollar, fifteen

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Speaker 1: billion dollar bailout for farmers as a direct result of

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Speaker 1: Trump's um tariffs and and and his all of the

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Speaker 1: trade policies with China. I'm so glad you brought that up,

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Speaker 1: because that was one of the key moments doubt that

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Speaker 1: I picked up on during the hearing was the Congressman

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Speaker 1: David Kustoff. He is a Republican representing rural Tennessee. His

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Speaker 1: farmers are his constituents, and he asked he used the

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Speaker 1: opportunity in the hearing to ask Secretary Minution about what

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Speaker 1: he should tell his farmers, his constituents, who are Trump supporters,

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Speaker 1: as the congressman, the Republican Congressman Kustoff said, when he

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Speaker 1: asked this question, I want to play for you Secretary

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Speaker 1: Monutions response to take a lesson. If we can get

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Speaker 1: a good deal, it will also be very good for

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Speaker 1: the farmers. I think you know is unfortunately we were

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Speaker 1: on track for that and we've gone backwards. The President

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Speaker 1: and Secretary Perdue are looking at various different programs to

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Speaker 1: make sure as we take in terrorists, we can use

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Speaker 1: some of that money to support the farmers. So I

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Speaker 1: can assure you the President is very focused on this.

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Speaker 1: That's an interesting nuanced point that the Treasury Secretary Doug made,

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Speaker 1: which is, if if we get money from the tariffs,

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Speaker 1: it'll go to the farmers. Is that a good argument? Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's uh, it's cover. It's not a great argument. Um.

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Speaker 1: The President's got a problem in that he keeps saying

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Speaker 1: the tariffs are good for the economy, that's why we

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Speaker 1: grew so fast in the first quarter. But they visibly

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Speaker 1: have to bail out the farmers, which means it can't

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Speaker 1: be that good. And since you're paying those tariffs and

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Speaker 1: I'm paying the tariffs, what they're really saying is, Doug,

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Speaker 1: we'd like you to write a check to the farmers.

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Speaker 1: Is that a problem? And I think that's not gonna

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Speaker 1: last very long. And meanwhile, Adam, while all of this

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Speaker 1: is going on, China has threatened to retaliate on June

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Speaker 1: one with sixty billion dollars I believe worth of terrorists

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Speaker 1: of their own that are specifically targeting the farmers. After

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Speaker 1: the hearing, I asked the Treasury Secretary. I said, Mr Secretary,

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Speaker 1: I mean, is there any end in sight in terms

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Speaker 1: of China retaliation and what's the message to farmers to

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Speaker 1: the business community. And he said, you know, if China

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Speaker 1: wants to have more tariffs. You know, we're going to

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Speaker 1: pressure back harder. So the Treasury Department, President Trump, they're

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Speaker 1: not backing down on this, and they clearly feel that

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Speaker 1: they have the upper hand. And I think what um.

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Speaker 1: The problem for the for the is that markets clearly

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Speaker 1: have have taken a really you know, dim view of

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Speaker 1: the trade war as a whole and the push around tariffs.

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Speaker 1: I think what Secretary Manu is trying to navigate it

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Speaker 1: is just a really tough um you know, uh needle um.

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Speaker 1: The tariffs are proven me really unpopular in a lot

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Speaker 1: of the battleground states. Is Paul. This week, they found

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Speaker 1: that Trump is underwater in key states like Michigan, Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 1: Wisconsin because of this economic policy. The administration wants the

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Speaker 1: Chinese to publicly visibly retreat from the central plank of

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Speaker 1: their economic platform plan. There is no way on God's

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Speaker 1: green Earth the Chinese are going to do that. That

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Speaker 1: would be the end of President Gee's regime. So the

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Speaker 1: only thing that the administration has to try to push

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Speaker 1: toward a big deal is ever higher tariffs. So they

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Speaker 1: will inflict more and more pain on the US economy.

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Speaker 1: In one of view, ways, they say vain pursuit of

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Speaker 1: a big deal with the Chinese. They were in a

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Speaker 1: bad place. I mean, they have written into a box

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Speaker 1: canyon and now they got to get out. I think,

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Speaker 1: and look, we shouldn't be lost that there are some

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Speaker 1: important objectives to try to get China to be a

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Speaker 1: fairer partner. Right. There's stuff on tech transfers that is

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Speaker 1: a big objective of multiple administrations, including the one I

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Speaker 1: served in UM. The problem, I think for a lot

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Speaker 1: of people that tariffs don't seem to be a particularly

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Speaker 1: effective way getting China to move on on those issues.

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Speaker 1: They clearly feel like they have room to stomach a

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Speaker 1: lot of these tariffs, and I just don't see how

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Speaker 1: that actually meets and gets what the objective of the

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Speaker 1: White House. Amen and amen. I mean, no one thinks

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Speaker 1: China is is is a good player in the international

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Speaker 1: stage that needs to change. This strategy doesn't need to

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Speaker 1: be working, though, but they are sticking with it to

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Speaker 1: some great detriment. And Treasury Secretary Stephen Venusian says he

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Speaker 1: told us reporters outside of the hearing and run his

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Speaker 1: way into the hearing, actually that he has no plans

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Speaker 1: as of now to go back to Beijing. Meanwhile, President

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Speaker 1: Trump and President she are still scheduled to come face

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Speaker 1: to face Doug in Osaka, Japan at the So you've

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Speaker 1: been in a million different business meetings where you know,

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Speaker 1: everybody at the staff level agreed, and then they kicked

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Speaker 1: it up the management management said no, well, what are

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Speaker 1: you supposed to do then to put the deal back together?

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Speaker 1: Who is the upper head or the US? I think

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Speaker 1: China has the capacities to wait longer than does any

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Speaker 1: US president. It's not personal, and so that that's a

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Speaker 1: real problem. Again, I think, who do you think? I

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Speaker 1: think that China does a deprehend because they also can

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Speaker 1: see the same poll numbers that that that that we see.

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Speaker 1: And again, this the poll from Quinnipiac that was released

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Speaker 1: yesterday of Americans in Pennsylvania and Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, and

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Speaker 1: Iowa approve of the president's handling of trade, approve of

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Speaker 1: his handling of of China specifically. That is a real

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Speaker 1: problem for President Trump, despite a strong economy on a

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Speaker 1: national level, If voters in those key states really feel

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Speaker 1: like his policy is misguided, He's going to pay a

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Speaker 1: poub you know, and I do want to know I

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Speaker 1: mean a aam you touch on this, but I mean

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Speaker 1: there are several issues in terms of what's being negotiated.

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Speaker 1: Look no further than Huawei that are that there is

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Speaker 1: bipartisan agreement on when it comes to national security. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Republicans and Democrats are very much aligned in terms of

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Speaker 1: the spying threats that Huawei poses to the US. You

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Speaker 1: guys both mentioned the style markets and their reaction to

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Speaker 1: all of this. Uh just even to dig deeper than

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Speaker 1: out of Adam and and coupling this with the polling

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Speaker 1: that has come out. But the stock market, the traders

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Speaker 1: up on the street, Dan not, they're not too happy.

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Speaker 1: US stocks fell Wednesday as trade tensions simmered, with the

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Speaker 1: White House saying to be prepared to blacklist more Chinese

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Speaker 1: technology companies. So the SMB necks falling for the third

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Speaker 1: session in four and tech shares are now under pressure

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Speaker 1: amid the latest developments in the trade war with China. That,

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Speaker 1: of course, according to my colleagues reporting on the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: terminal coming up, Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lane, Democrat from Texas

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Speaker 1: Judiciary Committee member, she's gonna check in with us on

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Speaker 1: the I word impeachment. You can download the sound on

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Speaker 1: podcasts on Apple iTunes and Bloomberg dot com, or by

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Speaker 1: downloading the Bloomberg Business app. You can also find us

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Speaker 1: on Radio dot com, I Heart Radio, and Spotify. Trejury

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Speaker 1: Secretary Revenution was in the hot seat today. Dot cal

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Speaker 1: t can knows a thing or two about testifying before Congress.

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Speaker 1: It's a marathon, not a sprint. I'm Kevin CERELLI Chief

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Speaker 1: Washington correspondent from Bloomberg TV and Radio, and you're listening

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Speaker 1: to Bloomberg. This is sound on with Kevin's really on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg one and one oh five point seven of m

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Speaker 1: h D two Baltimore. I just saw that Nancy Pelosi

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Speaker 1: just before our meeting made a statement that we believe

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Speaker 1: that the President of the United States is engaged in

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Speaker 1: a cover up. Well, it turns out I'm the most

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Speaker 1: and I think most of you would agree to this.

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Speaker 1: I'm the most transparent president probably in the history of

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Speaker 1: this country. That was President Trump speaking earlier today in

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Speaker 1: the Rose Garden, briefly at a press conference where he

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Speaker 1: essentially said no deal, no deal so long as Democrats

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Speaker 1: are investigating him and talked talking about impeachment. Here with

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Speaker 1: me in studio to political policy all stars, Doug this

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Speaker 1: Whole seek and former CBIO director, American Action Forum President

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Speaker 1: now and Adam Hodge, former d n C Coms director.

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Speaker 1: Now he's an s v P at s K D Nickerbocker.

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Speaker 1: He's also worked at the Obama Treasury Department. We were

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Speaker 1: talking earlier, gentlemen about US China trade policy and the

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Speaker 1: policy of all of this. It came up as a

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Speaker 1: hot topic, really the topic to jour with the exception

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Speaker 1: of the tax returns. We'll talk about that coming up.

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Speaker 1: But at the Treasury Secretaries hearing on Capitol Hill today

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Speaker 1: before the House Financial Services Committee, and we were talking

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Speaker 1: about the divide and who has the upper hand and

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Speaker 1: how it's playing politically. But I'm fascinated by how Silicon

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Speaker 1: Valley is being impacted by this, especially given that the

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Speaker 1: Chinese are responding Adam uh targeting where they feel the

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Speaker 1: US is sensitive politically. They targeted agriculture was sixty billion

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Speaker 1: dollars worth. The tariffs that's that are designed to hurt

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Speaker 1: President Trump's base and farmers, and the administration says they're

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Speaker 1: gonna defend them. But now there's text texts are worried

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Speaker 1: because of Huawei and ZT Yeah, and you saw um

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Speaker 1: you know on the street today tech stocks were just

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Speaker 1: buried because they were really worried about I think a

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Speaker 1: couple of things. One, UM, whether China is going to

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Speaker 1: restrict access to key ingredients and medals that they need

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Speaker 1: to make the parts, UM and make the chips that

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Speaker 1: fuel every device that we have in our house and

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Speaker 1: in our pockets. UM. I think the broader issue is

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Speaker 1: sort of what this means for China going forward. And

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Speaker 1: I think again the tech transfer policy issue is another

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Speaker 1: major concern for a lot of these firms who know

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Speaker 1: that they need to find a way to operate in

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Speaker 1: China to meet them sort of margins and benchmarks UH

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Speaker 1: set for their their their growth. It's a real problem

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Speaker 1: for them in in the short term and the long term.

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Speaker 1: And they're turning into the same thing the short term

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Speaker 1: the long term because the President is quite content to

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Speaker 1: have the chaffs in place. That seems pretty clear he

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Speaker 1: leave thinks they're a good thing. Regardless, they might also

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Speaker 1: help get this deal, and he always tells Apple and

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Speaker 1: anyone else wants to listen, they should just move their

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Speaker 1: stuff back to the US and make it here and

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Speaker 1: that I think is how he's held out the allure

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Speaker 1: of these terraces being a great thing for America so

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Speaker 1: to rebuild it. And so the problem with that is

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Speaker 1: it's now become quite clear that they're happy to move

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Speaker 1: to Cambodia or Vietnam, or Mexico or any even a

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Speaker 1: long list of places. So we won't benefit from that.

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Speaker 1: Those companies incur the costs of relocation. That's bad news.

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Speaker 1: So you're seeing them panic completely, and then you just

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Speaker 1: have to go back and explain to the American people,

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Speaker 1: why are we doing this and facing these higher prices,

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Speaker 1: what are we getting exactly? And and they're they're really

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Speaker 1: in a tough place with alan that the sector of

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Speaker 1: Treasury faced. You know the full heat of that at

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Speaker 1: that hearing today. All Right, Doug Holts, you can I've

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Speaker 1: interviewed you for years. Of course, you are the former

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Speaker 1: chief economic policy advisor to the presidential campaign of the

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Speaker 1: late Senator John McCain. You're also a Pittsburgh suburban Pittsburgh native. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that I think you do

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Speaker 1: so well is you can go incredibly into the weeds

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Speaker 1: and then pull out and let's forget about politics for

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Speaker 1: a second, let's forget the occupant of the White House,

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Speaker 1: because this is a battle for the tech future of

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Speaker 1: the world. This is Huawei versus Apple, this is ZT

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Speaker 1: versus some of the crown jewels of American technology. This

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Speaker 1: is a chess game of technological proportions that will play

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Speaker 1: out for decades and decades to come. No, uh, it's

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Speaker 1: very important. A little appreciated part of the reality out

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Speaker 1: there is getting their first means to set the standard.

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Speaker 1: And you know, are we going to have a US

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Speaker 1: standard for what five G looks like? We're going to

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Speaker 1: have a Huawei standard And that's really what this China

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Speaker 1: standard China standard, no question. Um, that's a leg up

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Speaker 1: in in every next step. So the administration is pretty

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00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,199
Speaker 1: clearly you know, engaged in this battle, wants to make

432
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 1: sure there's a U S standard. But again, I think

433
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 1: the missing piece of this strategy is Europeans others who

434
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: would we would want to be on that standard aligning

435
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 1: with the United States. This administration has not recruited them

436
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,160
Speaker 1: as allies, and there's actually distanced them at some unfortunate moments,

437
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 1: and so they can do what they can to slow

438
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 1: down the Chinese standard setting. But they can't fully win

439
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: without getting a little more help. And that's when I

440
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 1: find so fascinating. Coming up, we're gonna talk more politics

441
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: and policy. But that's what I find so fascinating. Was

442
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 1: Emmanuel McCrone, the French president, really not signing with Democrats

443
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 1: in this country. I mean, I interviewed Senator Mark Warner

444
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,199
Speaker 1: and Senator Chris Coon's Democrats from Virginia and Delaware, respectively.

445
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 1: They are some of the top Democrats in the Senate

446
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,719
Speaker 1: relating to foreign relations and intelligence matters, and they are

447
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: in luck step with this administration in terms of the

448
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: national security threats that Chinese telecommunications firms Huawei poses to

449
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: the US. Emmanuel McCrone and France, they're not coming up.

450
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 1: We died much more into politics and policy. Sheila Jackson Lee.

451
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: She's on the House floor speaking, so she's unable to

452
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 1: call in. But the second she steps off, I'm told

453
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: she's gonna call in, Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee. If not,

454
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk twenty chatter. Doug Hole teakns here, Adam

455
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 1: Hodges here, and I'm Kevin Cirelli, Chief Washington correspondent from

456
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 1: Bloomberg TV and Bloomberg Radio. You can download the Sound

457
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 1: On podcast on Apple iTunes, Bloomberg dot Com, or the

458
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,640
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business app. Check us out on Radio dot Com,

459
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and Spotify. You're listening to Bloomberg. This

460
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 1: is Sound On with Kevin Surreally on Bloomberg one and

461
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: one oh five point seven f M h D two

462
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 1: Bosom or I'm Kevin Cirelli, Chief Washington correspondent from Bloomberg

463
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: Television of Bloomberg Radio. The I word we are talking about,

464
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: the eye word, infrastructure or impeachment. President Trump says no

465
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: deal with Democrats so long as impeachment is on the table.

466
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 1: Joining us just off of the House floor where she

467
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 1: was just addressing the House of Representatives is a member

468
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: of the Judiciary Committee, Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee, a Democrat

469
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,479
Speaker 1: from Texas. Congresswoman, I appreciate your time. What is your

470
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 1: response tonight to President Trump saying no deal with Democrats

471
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: given the eye word chatter? Well, you know, we work

472
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 1: for the American people. We uphold the Constitution. We are

473
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: custodians of the rule of law. We say to the

474
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: American people that no one is above the law. We

475
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: understand the emotions of the white House. But as I

476
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: have indicated in my previous interviews and conversations, I have

477
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: no desire to target anyone. This is not a target

478
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: UH effort or a targeted effort. It really is the

479
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 1: responsibility of Congress and the right of Americans UH to

480
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: receive the information and the truth. That is why I

481
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: introduce the Resolution of Investigations, which I believe is the

482
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: best vehicle to be able to work with both sides

483
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: of the owls. Frankly, because who is going to reject

484
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 1: getting all of the information that is necessary a tool

485
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 1: that has been sanctioned by House rules. I'm disappointed, of course,

486
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 1: in the President's response, because I do believe that we

487
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: can work and to do what is right for the

488
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: American people and infrastructure, climate change, protecting their health care.

489
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 1: At the same time, we can do what we're instructed

490
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 1: to do by the Constitution and the roadmap given to

491
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 1: us by the Muller Report. Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee, a

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00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: senior member of the House Judiciary Committee, a Democrat representing

493
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 1: a district in Texas. Congresswoman in terms of there's so much,

494
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: there's so many different investigations going on, Bob Mueller has

495
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: signaled that he wants to testify behind closed doors. Is

496
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 1: there anything that you can do to assure him to

497
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,640
Speaker 1: testify publicly? Well, one of the things that I think

498
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 1: would make Mr Mulla more comfortable is we moved quickly

499
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: the resolution of investigation, which would go to the Rules

500
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: Committee and then ultimately to the floor of the House

501
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: and the um floor of the House. People on the floor,

502
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: of course, would take a vote that would instruct the

503
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: Judiciary Committee to investigate. That gives a further emphasis that

504
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: this is the word of the House of represented. The

505
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: House has spoken, the majority has spoken UH in order

506
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: to provide this information to the American people. I think secondarily,

507
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: I have great respect for UH Director Mala. I have

508
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: been on the Judiciary Committee long enough to have seen

509
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: him before our committee as the FBI director. He is

510
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: a former marine, He is a straight arrow, and I

511
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: understand his desire to be consistent with his beliefs. But

512
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: he wrote a two volume report. One in particular, gave

513
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: a list a litany of nine items that he thought

514
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: might um equal to obstruction of justice, and he ultimately

515
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: fed that the Congress should take this issue up. It's

516
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: his responsibility as an American I believe to publicly say

517
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: to the American people what he knows, and it's our

518
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: responsibility to query him on the facts and to allow

519
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: him to present the facts. I would say nothing more,

520
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: nothing less if there are matters that are classified, Certainly,

521
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: I know the chairman of the committee and the lawyers

522
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: that are working on the committee have always attempted and

523
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: worked in a collegiate and cordial manner, and they would

524
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: work with Direct Demula to ensure that no classified matters

525
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: were presented publicly. We can work a compromise on this

526
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: testimony of Direct Demula, but it's important for the American

527
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: people to hear him. The Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee, I

528
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: want to switch skiers now and talk about US China

529
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: trade policy. Your district representing much of central Houston, really

530
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: impacted by the U. S. China trade talks. How do

531
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: you think the President has been negotiating with the Chinese

532
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: and what are you hearing from your constituents about the

533
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: business and economic impacts. Well, clearly this is hurting not

534
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 1: only the eighteenth Congressional District in Houston, Texas, but it

535
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: is also hurting across the nation, which certainly impacts US

536
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: as farmers are being heard. Certainly produced UM meets UH

537
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: and other produces are certainly part of the whole Texas landscape.

538
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: And frankly, you cannot negotiate if you have no policy,

539
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: if you have no distinct trade policy. I am certainly

540
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: UH not supportive of China's tactics and trade. I'm not

541
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: supportive of their hacking, their stealing of intellectual property. UM.

542
00:30:55,360 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: There UM large imbalance in trade in many instances. But

543
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: the throw it against the wall approach that this administration

544
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: has utilized is not effective. And we can see that

545
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 1: UM two powers we being the largest UM economic entity

546
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: in the world. China approaching or or OR is the

547
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: second UM. It is certainly going to be a one upsmanship.

548
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 1: You never win trade deals per se with one upsmanship.

549
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:25,959
Speaker 1: What we should have done is approached this with the

550
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: best UM list of requirements that we could UH negotiate

551
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: as we have been doing, and then ultimately go to

552
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: the w t O, which we have been successful over

553
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: the last couple of years. President Obama had a lot

554
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,719
Speaker 1: of success in the w t of the World Trade Organization.

555
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: UH exploding explosive, throwing against the wall non existing policies

556
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: does not help my congressional district, nor does it help

557
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: the nation, for it has just laid off seven thousand persons.

558
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: Seven thousands they represent that they were just white column

559
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: but they're human beings with families. They even laid off

560
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 1: people who were just a few months away from retirement.

561
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: That's pretty cruel. And the only thing I can say

562
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: is that, um, this whole cycle of trade UH, and

563
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: this whole disruption in the economy, companies are either taken

564
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: advantage of it or they say that they need to

565
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: do it. This is not the way to negotiate effective,

566
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: long lasting trade policies. Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee. She is

567
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: a senior member of the House Judiciary Committee, a Democratic

568
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: congress member representing parts of Central Houston. I always wish

569
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: there was more time, Congresswoman, especially with you. She's also

570
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: incredibly active on the issue of immigration. We do, not, unfortunately,

571
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: have time to talk about that. Uh. Congresswoman Sheila Jackson

572
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: Lee born and raised in Queens, New York. Her parents

573
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: were both immigrants from Jamaica, and she went on to

574
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: earn a b a. In political science from Yale UH

575
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: and now represents Central Houston. You gotta give me some

576
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: recommendations for some barbecue in Houston. By the way, core Se,

577
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: I would be absolutely delighted. And you've got to I

578
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: don't know, are you there or you have to come down.

579
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: I want to combling to host you and I look

580
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: forward to coming back on the show to talk about

581
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: immigration uh issues. In fact, we were in judiciary as

582
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: we speak a dealing with three immigration bills. Will be

583
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: there too late into the evening marking up that legislation. Well,

584
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: I appreciate the time, especially given the busy, busy schedule

585
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: for you today. That's Congressorman Sheila Jackson Lee and my

586
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: special thanks as well to Doug hole Seeken. What do

587
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: you think of that? Doug? The congress Soran Mikesoft, what

588
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: do you think of that? I thought it was fantastic

589
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: to agree with her on trade. I think you know

590
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 1: what you're doing, Kevin trade. Nothing about me about trade,

591
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: and the congress Woman I was seeing you shake your

592
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: head in agreement on some of the comments that you

593
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 1: made about trade. I am worried about how this ends.

594
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: And um, I don't think it's a lack of a strategy.

595
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: I just think it's the wrong strategy. We're gonna have

596
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: to leave it there, Dog come back for CBIO director,

597
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: president of the conservative think tank American Action Forum, and

598
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: Adam Hodge, friend of the program. Former d n C

599
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: Coms director. That's it for me, Kevin Crelli. Check us

600
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 1: out on the sound on Extra podcast, which we will

601
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: post later. Enjoy this beautiful day, everybody. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg