1 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: Welcome back to I Do Part two. I'm one of 2 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: your celebrity mentors, Alexinapola from the Real Houses of Miami, 3 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: and today I wanted to check in with someone I've 4 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: had on the podcast before. She's a psychologist who does 5 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,919 Speaker 1: extensive work in the area of relationships, helping couples as 6 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: well as individuals in all areas of life before marriage, 7 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: during the marriage, separated, divorced, and high conflict divorce. Today, 8 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: it's kind of like I'm getting my own private session. 9 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: I don't know about that. I am a little bit scared. 10 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie. But once again, Hi, doctor Hillary. 11 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: It's so nice to see you again. 12 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 2: Nice to see you again too. I'm glad we could 13 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 2: come back together to chat. 14 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: Yes, I'm a little scared. I'm a little free because 15 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 1: this is I feel like this is like a live 16 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: session with like a lot of people, and I'm used 17 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: to like private sessions. 18 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 19 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, hopefully you'll make me feel, you know, at ease 20 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: and calm and not nervous, and I can open up 21 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: as much as I need to. 22 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean ground rules for any session, whether 23 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 2: other people are listening or not, is to only go 24 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 2: towards places that feel safe and comfortable. And you know, 25 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 2: I always like to think of it as like the 26 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 2: just right challenge. You can like go as far as 27 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 2: you think it's comfortable with just maybe pushing yourself a 28 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 2: little bit in terms of vulnerability and exposure for the 29 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 2: purposes of growth. But I got you. I'll make sure 30 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,559 Speaker 2: that it feels okay and look out for signs if. 31 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: It's not okay. Thank you for that. 32 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 2: Last time we met, we were talking a lot about 33 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 2: dating and relationships, and I'd love to get sort of 34 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 2: a state of the union in terms of where you 35 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 2: are and if that still remains kind of a a 36 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 2: central theme for you. 37 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: Well, I feel like relationships have always been a big 38 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: part of my life. I feel like I've been married 39 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: my whole adult life, so as I said, for me, 40 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: they've always been important. But this time that I've been 41 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 1: on my own has honestly been so good for me. 42 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: I've discovered so much about myself and so much self 43 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: awareness and self love, and you know, just reflecting on why, 44 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: you know, my adult life and my adult relationships have 45 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: been the way that they've been, you know, I want 46 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: to see only the positive because I am an optimistic 47 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: and I continue to believe in love and I think 48 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: that that's one of my things that I love to heart. 49 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: But you know, I'm also proud of it. You know, 50 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 1: I don't want to change, you know. I like the 51 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: way I am. I'm just, like I said, more confident, 52 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: I know what I want, I know myself worth. You know, 53 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: sometimes it's you know, it's scary to be alone, and 54 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: I think it's not because you need that male partner. 55 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: You just don't know any other way of being, which 56 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: is kind of like, you know, my adult life that 57 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: have always been in a relationship and married. 58 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, it's interesting. I work with a 59 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 2: lot of female clients who talk about this sort of 60 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 2: I don't know, internal and also societal dilemma of like 61 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 2: wanting to love love, wanting to be in love, wanting 62 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 2: a partnership, and this pull around whether or not that's 63 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 2: an okay thing or an empowered thing, or a sign 64 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 2: of weakness. And I love that you're identifying and owning 65 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:36,240 Speaker 2: with the desire for connection and partnership. I think that's 66 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 2: amazing and lovely and not only should there not be 67 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 2: shame in it, we should be able to identify and 68 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 2: declear that for ourselves. It is part of why we 69 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 2: exist is to be in connection and community with other people, 70 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 2: and romantic love is an enormous part of that. And 71 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 2: so I think for you leaning into that is lovely 72 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 2: and amazing. It's just trying to and it's a big 73 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 2: thing and a big pursuit of trying to tease out 74 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 2: what parts of that process have not worked for you, 75 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 2: you know, what parts of that process has led you 76 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 2: to relationships that ultimately aren't resident and to think about 77 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 2: continuously how you want to show up differently or more 78 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 2: expansively moving forward. So I'm curious how that process has 79 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 2: been and if that process has expanded since you've been alone. 80 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, for me, love has always been It's 81 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 1: so my relationships have never ended because of lack of love. 82 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: And that's very important, you know, to distinguish, because I 83 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: feel like a lot of relationships either go apart or 84 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 1: you love each other, but not like in a romantic 85 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: or passionate way, and you know, you just don't, you know, 86 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: you're not in love anymore. But you know, my all 87 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: my relationships have been filled with lots of love, and 88 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: that's why I think I still hold on to that, 89 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: you know, to the idea of love because I know 90 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: how important love is and how great you can be 91 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: if you love the right way and you receive the 92 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: love back in the same way. So yeah, that's why 93 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: I'm still you know, happy and you know, and optimistic, 94 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: and I believe that everybody should be. Like, my happiness 95 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: doesn't depend on that person or on the relationship, because 96 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: I've always been a happy person. You know, I just 97 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: want that person to compliment, you know, my world, and 98 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: you know, to compliment me and to make me feel 99 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: emotionally safe and to be at peace. And you know, 100 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 1: I feel like we love differently in different stages of 101 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: our lives. And that's the stage that I'm at now. 102 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like I have all these tools 103 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: now with like being older and all the lessons that 104 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: have gone through and have so much wisdom that like 105 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm I'm ready now. I wish I 106 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 1: would have had all these tools, you know, back in 107 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: the day, and maybe I would still be married, you know. 108 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: To The first to follow is because you know, I 109 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: feel like a lot of times, you know, you don't 110 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: have those tools, especially if you're you know, you're younger 111 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: like I was. 112 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 2: What are sort of the tools that you've curated that 113 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 2: make you feel more solid now. And then part two 114 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 2: of my question is where are the arenas if any 115 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 2: of deficits where you still feel like you need to 116 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 2: shore up to be prepared and ready for connection. 117 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I feel like a lot of the 118 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: deficit that I had previously, you know, in the past, 119 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: besides you know, being younger and you know, naive not 120 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 1: knowing so much about myself was this time around. I 121 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: really dove into myself and into just finding out why 122 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: I am the way I am and why my relationships 123 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: were going maybe not the way I wanted them to go. 124 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 1: So I found out a lot about you know, they 125 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: call it now childhood trauma, but you know, I want 126 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: to call it like childhood experience. You know, like your 127 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: parents did the best that they could, and you know, 128 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: my parents loved me tremendously, but you know, I do 129 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 1: now realize that I did have childhood trauma. My parents 130 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 1: were divorced. That had a lot to do with it. 131 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 1: I feel like my parents had, especially my father, was 132 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: a love that was like conditional, like if I was 133 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: a good girl and I got eight pluses and I 134 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 1: you know, and I never got in trouble and I was, 135 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: you know, like you know, doing amazing in school and 136 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: at home and behave and respect. So they would give 137 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: me everything, you know, either materialistic wise, or they would 138 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: show me love. But the moment that I got in 139 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: trouble where I did something that they didn't like or 140 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: didn't align with their values, they would punish me, and 141 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: they would punish me by withdrawing that love and affection. 142 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 1: So in a way I thought it was okay because 143 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: it was my dad and he can do it. But 144 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: then I feel like I've had that pattern with men 145 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: in my life as well, that I think it's you know, 146 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: it's okay. So I found out a lot this time 147 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: because I've had I've given time to myself. I feel 148 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: like a lot of women when you know, we go 149 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: through these you know, separations if you want to call them, 150 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: you know, from our spouses. We we never really do 151 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: work in ourselves, you know. We either start going out 152 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: with our friends, we start drinking, we start you know, 153 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: doing things that really but we shouldn't really be doing 154 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,560 Speaker 1: to deal with the pain instead of grieving it, you know, 155 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: and sitting with yourself, reading the books, talking to life 156 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: coaches and this time, I really did it for myself, 157 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: and other times I've never given myself that time a 158 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: bond from one relationship to the other. And I feel 159 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: like a lot of women do that because of different reasons, right, 160 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: not only because all we're scared to be alone or like, 161 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: you know, I know that a lot of people say that. 162 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: For me, it wasn't that. For me, it was just 163 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: a way of like trying to fall that find that 164 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: love again, right, like, so it could replace what I 165 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: had before, you know, with the new person. 166 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. There, You're alluding to some important concepts. But one 167 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 2: thing in my world we call repetition compulsion, right, And 168 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 2: when we have a version of childhood traumas you alluded to, 169 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 2: childhood experiences that were tricky or difficult to absorb and 170 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 2: created certain patterns or beliefs about ourselves, we have an 171 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 2: internal edict to repeat that pattern repetition compulsion, in order 172 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 2: to potentially get a different outcome. So if we had 173 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 2: a withholding father or a father that loved with condition 174 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,479 Speaker 2: or loved in a way that was sort of true. 175 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: That it was okay. I mean, I'm saying I got 176 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: so much love. I think I got so much love. 177 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 1: I grew up in an environment that was very like 178 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: with My dad adored us. But that's the way that 179 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: he showed us. He showed me his love. Yes, know 180 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: that he would have killed for us, like my mother 181 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 1: and father literally spent other life fighting for us to 182 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: hillary because there were both doctors that were both divorced. 183 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: They both wanted us to live with them, so it 184 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: was all they spent other lives fighting for our love. 185 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 2: Yes. 186 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: And then I had a very nurturing grandmother. Thank god, 187 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: I might were Cuban descent. So my grandmother was like 188 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 1: the mother and our family, and she gave up her 189 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: life from my sister and I my brother, so she 190 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: gave us all the love no matter what we did 191 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 1: wrong or not. You know, she would still, you know, 192 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: give us that love that we needed and wanted. So 193 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: you know, it was never like lack of love. I 194 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: think because our parents didn't have both tools either. So 195 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: now I like overcompensate. Not with my kids. I'm like, 196 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: I give them so much love, you know, but in 197 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: a different way, you know, I show them even if 198 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: they mess up, I still got you, I still love you, 199 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:08,959 Speaker 1: I still give you a kiss. I'm may be mad 200 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: at you, but I'm still going to tell you I 201 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: love you, and I'm still going to give you that 202 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: hug that they need. So I heard a lot from that. 203 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're talking with such an important kind of nuanced 204 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,960 Speaker 2: component and family systems, which is your your family. It 205 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 2: sounds like was filled with so much love. You understood 206 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 2: you were loved, You understood that your parents did everything 207 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 2: for you, work to support you, and once you grow 208 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 2: and expand, and the other thing that was true at 209 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 2: the same time is there was some tricky dynamics that 210 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 2: had you thinking about yourself and about love in certain 211 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 2: ways that impacted you moving forward. And so it's interesting 212 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 2: that people who come from childhood's where there wasn't traumas 213 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 2: people often say with like a capital tee, there's nothing 214 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 2: like identifiable that happened, sort of feel like, well, wait, 215 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 2: what's wrong with me? Why am I not getting relationships right? 216 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 2: Nothing really happened to me, and as a result, have 217 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 2: a hard time understanding how they move through relationships at 218 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 2: times to their own detriment. And so you're bringing up 219 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 2: something so important, which is that you can have a 220 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 2: family that's like full of love and support and loyalty 221 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,599 Speaker 2: and trust in all the things, but still have complex, 222 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 2: even insidious dynamics that impact how you move through the 223 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 2: world and how you see love. And that's sort of 224 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 2: what you were describing, And so perhaps there's a part 225 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 2: of you that saw love as being conditional, that you 226 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 2: had to be perfect or show up in a particular 227 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 2: way in order to be valuable and be worthy of 228 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 2: a certain kind of love. And it's not that your 229 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 2: parents weren't loving, it just happened to be a particular 230 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 2: dynamic because you said, no one comes to parenting with 231 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 2: all the tools. We all have things to learn, and 232 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 2: this was one of your parents perhaps you know, blind 233 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:56,320 Speaker 2: spots or ways that they move through the family dynamics. 234 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 2: So it's really lovely that you've taken the time to 235 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 2: figure out particularly what's going on for you, so you 236 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 2: don't have the compulsion, as I was alluding to before, 237 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,439 Speaker 2: to repeat the pattern. 238 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,439 Speaker 1: Right, because I feel that that's what happens. You got 239 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 1: And they've all been different, they've all had similarities, and 240 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: they've all had differences. But I think that that's really 241 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: like the core of the problem, and I just figured 242 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: that out. So I am like at peace, I feel 243 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,719 Speaker 1: so happy. I'm not even like I'm actually like, I 244 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: love that. Finally, you know, at my age, I got 245 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: to figure this out because some people go on with 246 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: life and they never figure out what triggers them, why 247 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: are the way they are? You know, people just like 248 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: to say, oh no, because you know you're crazy or 249 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:36,679 Speaker 1: you're this, and you're not. 250 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 2: No, you're not. 251 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: You know, you just have to find that time, you 252 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: make the effort. And I really needed to do this 253 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: for myself. So it's a blessing in disguise. You know. 254 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: I just wish, you know, would have been earlier. But 255 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: you know, now I'm at a great stage you know 256 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,239 Speaker 1: in my life. I feel at peace, I have clarity, 257 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: you know, I'm confident and I'm feeling good. So yes, 258 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: I really courage that for every woman. Honestly, I know 259 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: it's a cliche, but you know, you really have to 260 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: do it. You really have to do it, and it's uncomfortable. 261 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:09,959 Speaker 1: You have to sit with yourself and you're going to 262 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: cry and you're going to read things. But you know, 263 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: the more information you know you have, you know, the 264 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: better that the better you feel about yourself. 265 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 2: Yes, I think often we have a propensity to avoid 266 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,439 Speaker 2: that work because there are a lot of tricky feelings 267 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 2: that can come up, including shame and guilt and fear 268 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 2: and anxiety and all the things. And I like to 269 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 2: talk about the notion of integration. Paradoxically, the closer we 270 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 2: go towards those feelings, the more integration that can occur, 271 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 2: and the more we can feel empowered around those feelings. 272 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 2: Meaning they're just a piece of us. They're not all 273 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 2: of us, and they're not something to be afraid of 274 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,559 Speaker 2: or to be avoided. They're to be welcomed in with 275 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 2: softness and care. The parts of us that are insecure, 276 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 2: the parts of us that are scared, that are traumatized, 277 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 2: that are fearful, instead of exigning them off where they 278 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 2: RecA it because we don't have control over them, don't 279 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 2: think about them, don't sort of shape them, We bring 280 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 2: them closer. We make friends with those feelings, and we're 281 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 2: able to recognize it as just a small piece of us. 282 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 2: And it's actually a really empowering process. And the way 283 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 2: you were just talking, and you know, I can see 284 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 2: you right now, I can see you embodying that sort 285 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 2: of that feeling state of having done that kind of work. 286 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I also feel like I don't know about 287 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: other patients that you see. But you know, I feel 288 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: like me in particular. I've always liked to fix people 289 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: and I and you know what, you cannot fix anyone 290 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: that does not want to be fixed and that doesn't 291 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: want to change, and change really doesn't happen, especially later 292 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: on in life, like at our age, and you have 293 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: to fix yourself and save yourself. And you know that's 294 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: that's what you know, I've been doing because I feel 295 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: like I had that. My mom was a psychiatrist, so 296 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: you know, and so I missed her so much because 297 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: she was so therapeutic. You know, she's such a great 298 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: prior to them, by the way, she got to worce 299 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: five times, and she gave able to give great couple therapy, 300 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: and she didn't she believed in divorced for herself, but 301 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: not for other people. You know, obviously it's very complex. 302 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: But and you know, my sister and my brother are 303 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: still married because you know, we lived out you know, 304 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: we lived in over where my mom was married five times, 305 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: so that also impacted us. And but you know, I 306 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: missed her a lot, and I did learn so much 307 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: from her, and then now I'm actually like putting it 308 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: to practice because of that time for myself, and I'm matured. 309 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: You know. That's the other thing, you know, you have 310 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: to like emotionally mature. You know, some people never do that, 311 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: so you stay where you're at. 312 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 2: I really like what you're talking about, which is when 313 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 2: a couple of different concepts. When people show you who 314 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 2: they are, particularly in a romantic contact, you have to 315 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 2: believe them, right, you know, when they show up a 316 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 2: particular way over and over again and show a lack 317 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 2: of capacity or willingness to work through hard times, we 318 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 2: have to believe them. We can't do the heavy lifting 319 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 2: for two people. 320 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: And I love that you use that word capacity because 321 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: my mom would always use that word, and my mom 322 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: would say, you can't even be mad with the person 323 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: or hate them. It's just they do not have the capacity. 324 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: Sometimes you have to move on because they do not 325 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: have the capacity to love you the way you want 326 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: them to love you. So you know, but it's hard, 327 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: you know, it's hard when you realize that, and you know, 328 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: when there's love and you love the person and whatnot. 329 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 2: Incredibly painful. It's a very grief filled process to love 330 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 2: someone and recognize they don't have that capacity, that bandwidth 331 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 2: to meet you there and to have to let it 332 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 2: go in the service of finding someone that can. And 333 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 2: it sounds like that's that's where you've arrived. And I'm 334 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 2: curious as you look towards dating now, what are you 335 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 2: looking for? What have you identified as the kind of 336 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,360 Speaker 2: partner you want, the love languages that resonate with you. 337 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 2: How do you think of it now? 338 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: Well, I'm not there yet. I'm not dating anyone or no, 339 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: am I interesting. I'm dating myself. Like, honestly, I feel 340 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: so good with just being by myself with my children, 341 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 1: you know, the third young men. But to me, they're 342 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: always going to be my kids, and I'm so connected 343 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: to them, so now more than ever, I'm you know, 344 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: closest to both of them. I've always been close, but 345 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: like I said, you know, I feel like because unfortunately 346 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: they've seen me and a lot of dumb times in 347 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: my life, so they're like, you know, stepping up for me. 348 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,360 Speaker 1: So thank goodness that you know that I've had them, 349 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: that I have them. But you know, I just feel 350 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: good with myself, like I feel good, I'm at peace. 351 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,880 Speaker 1: You know, I'm doing things with my family, with my friends, 352 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: and that's just like where I am now and. 353 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,959 Speaker 2: When you think about the possibility of a partner in 354 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 2: the future, are you just leaving that too unfold? 355 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: As you know. I mean, it hasn't really doubt for me. 356 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: But I'm not giving up on love. Like you know, 357 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: I love love, But like now I know what love 358 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: has to look like for me, you know. I think before, 359 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 1: you know, I didn't really know what love was. 360 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so what so maybe that's the question, what 361 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:20,400 Speaker 2: does it have to look like for you to consider stuffing? 362 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: Well, I think for me it just has to be 363 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: like I have to you know, And it's not we 364 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: have butterflies in your stomach. It's always been for me, 365 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: but you know, and I still wanted to be that, 366 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,640 Speaker 1: you know, because I love that passion, because I'm very passionate. 367 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: But you know, for me, it has to be I 368 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,919 Speaker 1: have to feel emotionally safe. Now I know what that means. 369 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: I never really knew what that meant, by the way, 370 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: so you know, there has to be boundaries, you know, 371 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: which I didn't know that word either, And I know, 372 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: like you know, thank you, I don't like social media, 373 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 1: but there are some positive things about social media, and 374 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: I feel like those things have always existed. We just 375 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 1: didn't have terms for them because all these dew terms 376 00:18:57,920 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: that we talk about now, like I remember my mom 377 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,239 Speaker 1: talking about them, but they were called something else. So 378 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 1: you know, now I know what like what I deserve 379 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: and what I want. I think before it was like 380 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: all over the place because and not because people think, oh, 381 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: you know, your life is like a telenobela, and you're like, 382 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 1: you've always had so much chaos and things happen to you. 383 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: You know, it's that's what I've been attracted. You know, 384 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:22,640 Speaker 1: that's what I attract. You know, that's what I've attracted 385 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 1: in the past. So it's not like I'm at peace. 386 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, very like two, I'm good. But 387 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: then for whatever reasons in my life I've attracted. I 388 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: don't know why I'm attracted to that chaos. I don't 389 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 1: know if it's because it's fun and adventurous or like, 390 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: you know what it is. But again, I really do 391 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: know what it is now, and it's because I always 392 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: see the potential and I like the fact of like 393 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: fixing people, like I want to save people, and I'm 394 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: tired of saving people, like you know, because at the end, 395 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,360 Speaker 1: I have to save myself and that's what I had 396 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: to do, and that's what I've always done, right, saved myself. 397 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean we're here. You know, as a mom, 398 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 1: I can save my children, but I don't think I 399 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: should have to save any man. 400 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 2: It's interesting. I think one one emotional fallout of that 401 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 2: savior complex is really a self abandonment. You know, when 402 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 2: you become so focused on helping someone else evolve or 403 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 2: save them from their own toxicity. The only way we 404 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 2: can do that is to yourself. 405 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,440 Speaker 1: Yes, yourself, absolutely, that's right. And you know what, that's 406 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: not real love. And you really think about it, because 407 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: if you have to give up like who you are 408 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: and your self worth and you know, to save someone else, 409 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: and that person you know can't see it, then that 410 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 1: person doesn't deserve you, and you should not want to 411 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: be with that person. 412 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 2: Right, And by definition, it lacks reciprocity, right, I mean, 413 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 2: if you're if one is interested in emotional connection and 414 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 2: depth and connection, it can only happen if it's reciprocal. 415 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 2: And so if what is in the savior role and 416 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 2: the other is in the role of sort of intermittently 417 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 2: receiving it, of course that isn't the fertile ground to 418 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 2: build that. So it's really glad we're talking about that 419 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 2: because you have to get pretty conscious about recognizing if 420 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 2: you're in that role of quote saving someone or focusing 421 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 2: on someone's potential versus what they're showing you, because the 422 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 2: outcome inevitably is self abandonment. 423 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: That is true. Yeah, I mean we also have to 424 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: be careful with a lot of things. You know. I 425 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: feel like nowadays two you know, you you know, women 426 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:28,919 Speaker 1: and men too. I mean we're also empowered, you know, 427 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: with all this information. You know, I feel like we 428 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: give up sometimes before we should give up. You know, 429 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: that's not who I am obviously. You know, people that 430 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: know me know that I'm like, I give it my all. 431 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: You know, I fight till the end. But you have 432 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: to know, you know how much you're going to fight, 433 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: you know, and like you said, you can't avangage yourself, 434 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 1: you know, to make you know, somebody else happy that 435 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,919 Speaker 1: doesn't really want to be connected and want to do 436 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: the work on their part. 437 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, there's couples that work, and how longevity and 438 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 2: sustainable intermittent but sustainable passion really build an intentional, deliberate 439 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 2: skill set around conflict resolution right around, like how do 440 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 2: we deal with hard things? How do we talk about it? 441 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 2: How do we support each other when we have individual 442 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,679 Speaker 2: or mutual times of stress? You know, how do we 443 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 2: show up? What is the language we use? How do 444 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 2: we recover from a fracture between us? You really have 445 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 2: to get so deliberate and intentional, because when we're triggered, 446 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 2: all of us, we don't show up as our best selves. 447 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 2: So understanding how we show up when we're triggered, Understanding 448 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 2: how our partner shows up when they're triggered, and building 449 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 2: skills to sort ourselves and each other is critical. And 450 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 2: to your point of folks giving up too early, I 451 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 2: think oftentimes it's related to this topic that if you 452 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 2: haven't curated a way of approaching conflict resolution, it's really 453 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,080 Speaker 2: hard to stay together. It can feel quite how. 454 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 1: I feel like that's a problem, Like since the kids 455 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: are little, you know that you have to show your kids, 456 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: you have to give them those skills, you know, And 457 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: I'm guilty as a parent, and I'm sure there's so 458 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: many other listeners that are listening to that that we 459 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: just resolve everything for them, you know, so they don't 460 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: know how to resolve conflict, and I feel that we 461 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,360 Speaker 1: also carry it onto our relationships because if you don't 462 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 1: know how to you know, solve certain things when you're 463 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: a young person, then as you get older, you carry 464 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: it onto everything. You're personal, you're professional. And I think 465 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: that that's what happens, you know with the couples. Like 466 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: you're saying, like there's no repair after the conflict for 467 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: whatever reason. If you had the mom that would stay 468 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: quiet at home and the dad would do whatever, you 469 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: learn that from your mom, So you're like, Okay, well 470 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,239 Speaker 1: maybe I should just stay quiet and not say what 471 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 1: I need to say just to avoid the conflict. So 472 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: it's so complicated. It's really complicated. You just have to 473 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: both want the same thing and put in time and 474 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: the effort and you know, and be able to communicate 475 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,439 Speaker 1: and talk about uncomfortable things. 476 00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 2: Well, you start to start saying, right, but I'm curious, 477 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 2: what have you learning about your own approach moving forward 478 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 2: around conflict resolution? What what has like tripped you up 479 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,439 Speaker 2: in the past, and what do you want to bring 480 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 2: to a new relationship. 481 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: Right, Well, I mean I feel like I need to 482 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: be maybe a better listener, you know, and not be 483 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: like so reactive at the moment, you know, because sometimes 484 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: they don't realize that you're reacting to whatever behavior they're 485 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: showing you. But you know, I feel like it's important 486 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 1: to know your you know, your spouse or your partner, 487 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 1: whoever you're in a relationship with, you need to know, 488 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: you need to know them, you know. I feel like 489 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: sometimes we don't know that person enough, so you don't 490 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,439 Speaker 1: know how to like navigate. But I feel it's important 491 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 1: that both people do know each other and respect each other. 492 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 1: And like, I've learned so much even about that, about 493 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: attachment styles, avoidant, anxious. I'm the anxious one, so I'm 494 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: trying not to be so anxious. But you know, so 495 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: I've just like done a lot of reading, a lot 496 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 1: of like you know, coaching and and therapy that really, 497 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: you know, helped me just be better, you know, not 498 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: to be with another man, not to do with anybody else, 499 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: but just with myself. 500 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:07,399 Speaker 2: You know. 501 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm I've learned a lot, and I'm 502 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: very satisfied and grateful that I finally got to a 503 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: good you know, to a good space, you know that 504 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 1: I feel good about myself. 505 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're talking about such a critical piece, which is 506 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 2: when you're in a partnership understanding the other person's style 507 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,239 Speaker 2: during conflict, and that encompasses a lot of things. So 508 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 2: what happens for them when they are in the realm 509 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 2: of conflict? Do they shut down? Do they get more 510 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 2: activated and aggressive? Do they feel vulnerable and fearful of 511 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 2: being abandoned? You know what happens for that person when 512 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 2: they feel threatened through conflict, right, and what happens to 513 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 2: you in the same scenario. And things may be quote complimentary, 514 00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 2: or they may work against each other and having converse 515 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 2: stations with your partner outside of the tricky moment. We 516 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 2: don't try to figure this out while. 517 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: We're fighting exactly. 518 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 2: We figure it out, you know, over a glass of 519 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 2: wine or during a walk on the beach or something 520 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 2: of like, let's really think about what happens for both 521 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 2: of us when we fight. You know, one person says 522 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,360 Speaker 2: they might withdraw. The other person says they might get 523 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 2: heightened and activated and a little more aggressive. Like recognizing 524 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 2: that and saying that vulnerably to the other person is 525 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 2: a really good first start and then asking each other, well, 526 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 2: what do you need in that moment? You know, one 527 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 2: person might need a hand on the knee. One person 528 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 2: might need a ten minute pause, One person might need 529 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 2: words of affirmation. One person might need like a code 530 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 2: word that means we still love each other. Right, that 531 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 2: coming up with a process to address each other's sort 532 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 2: of pain points in this moment, in those moments is 533 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 2: really really important. And then figuring out you alluded to 534 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 2: this earlier around how do you self advocate? How do 535 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 2: you say the how do you say this is what 536 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 2: I need, this is what I want, and I'm not 537 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 2: abandoning my need in this moment, but do it in 538 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 2: a digestible way. And I often talk about the difference 539 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 2: between aggression versus advocacy, so critical, Right, we never have 540 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 2: to say I'm not saying what I need, I'm not 541 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 2: saying what I feel, but we should take responsibility for 542 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 2: how we say it. So message is, you know, always 543 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 2: on point in terms of what our needs are, but 544 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 2: the delivery system has to be curated. 545 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: I'm working on my delivery. You know, I'm under show 546 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: that we all have very poor delivery. Yes, so I'm 547 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 1: definitely working on that. That's very important, and you know, 548 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,439 Speaker 1: I feel also it's important to have that partner if 549 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: it's going to listen to you and validate that, because 550 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of women are afraid, you know, 551 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 1: to actually talk about their emotions. You know, I was 552 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,959 Speaker 1: one of them in different relationships. I've always suffered from 553 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: that too, because you know, I grew up kind of 554 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: like even though my mom was a psychiatrist and people 555 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: would go to her to say their needs and their 556 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: problems and all that, but it was kind of like, 557 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: you know, we couldn't really talk about our feelings and 558 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: our emotions. So I feel like, you know, the older women, 559 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,360 Speaker 1: hopefully their younger generation, they are very you know, out 560 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 1: there and they're very like vocal about, you know, their 561 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,360 Speaker 1: feelings and emotions. But you know, I feel like, as 562 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: you know, older women do maybe be in situations like that, 563 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: whether they're even like afraid, you know, to say anything 564 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: because it's either going to create you know, conflict, or 565 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: they're not going to be you know, their feelings aren't 566 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:26,919 Speaker 1: going to be validated, or they're just going to say, oh, 567 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: I hear, you're overreacting. But whatever, you put up with 568 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: it for such long time, right, some people put up 569 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: with it for a super long time, and then when 570 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 1: they react, it's like, you know, it's a little too late. Yeah, 571 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: it's super important from the beginning right to just be 572 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: who you are, say what you need to say, Like 573 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: you say, the delivery is important and just you know, 574 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 1: you have to get it off your chest. 575 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 2: Yes, I really like to put that under the category 576 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 2: of self advocacy and help people start if it resonates, 577 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 2: starts conceptualizing it is that it really really is it. 578 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 2: It's sharing our feelings, but it's really under the more 579 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 2: holistic umbrella of advocating for ourselves and how we want 580 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 2: to be seen and treated and how we want to 581 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 2: move through the world. And we want to have a 582 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 2: partner that is able to listen to and care about 583 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 2: and respond to our feelings. And our responsibility is to 584 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 2: deliver it in a way that is as I said, digestible. 585 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 2: But their responsibility is to find a way to meet 586 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 2: you there and listen. And that doesn't mean you always 587 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 2: get what you want, but it should mean that more 588 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 2: often than not at least you're getting acknowledged and validated 589 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 2: and really creating that positive feedback loop is like a practice. 590 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: Weish thinking for them. This is a two way street. 591 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: You know, it's all that we want all this from them, 592 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: and you know, we don't give anything in return. No, 593 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: you have to reciprocate. We have to do the same 594 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: thing for them. 595 00:29:50,800 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 2: That's right. You know, as we're talking about delivery, the 596 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 2: delivery system by which we share our needs. I just 597 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 2: wanted to offer this. I think it's a really important 598 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 2: relationship hack, which is that obviously none of us are 599 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 2: going to deliver our messaging and our needs in a 600 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 2: perfect way every time. Nobody does that. So what do 601 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 2: we do when we've shown up in a way we 602 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 2: don't feel good about? And you know, I just always 603 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 2: like to offer the idea that like we can always 604 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 2: go back, we can always go back, whether it's five 605 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 2: minutes later, an hour later, or like ten days later, 606 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 2: and sort of say, like, you know, we were talking 607 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 2: about that thing, and like my message was on point, 608 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 2: but like the way I said it to you, I 609 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 2: don't I don't feel good about. You know, I just 610 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,400 Speaker 2: wanted to come to you and say I'm really sorry 611 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 2: I raise my voice or have that tone or said 612 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 2: this phrase. That doesn't feel good to you. Right, the 613 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 2: thing I was talking about is still really important to me, 614 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 2: But I'm going to table that for now because I 615 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 2: want you to know I didn't feel good about how 616 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 2: I said it, and that can create a lot of 617 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 2: good will between a couple, and goodwill is such a 618 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 2: critical like fuel for a couple to sustain is to 619 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 2: show up and raise your hand and said, hey, that 620 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 2: was on me, and have that humility and that vulnerability 621 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 2: to do that. And this allows us to not subscribe 622 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 2: to the idea that somehow we always have to get 623 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 2: it right. And so maybe that gives us a little 624 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 2: more confidence to try. 625 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, that's great advice. 626 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know it now. 627 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: I had to learn in the hard way, but that's 628 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 1: really really good advice. 629 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm curious if I mean, obviously some of your 630 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 2: relationships were were in the public eye or at least 631 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 2: somewhat shown on television. 632 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: All of them, all of them have been on the 633 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: public and on TV. 634 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, what how did that add to the 635 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 2: complication of your relationships? 636 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: You know, it's been they're all different, but I feel like, 637 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: you know, once you're you know, once the public has 638 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: you know, access to your to your life or two comments, 639 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: you know, and you have that public scrutiny that you know, 640 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: it's it just becomes so much more worse if you're 641 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: that type of person. You know, I try to not 642 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,360 Speaker 1: read comments. I have very thick skin, and I know 643 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: who I am, and I actually love who I am, 644 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: and I know my family, I know my morals and values. 645 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: But you know, I'm going to show where you know, 646 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: you don't get to see my whole life story. And 647 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: you we're filming for three months, so it's whatever's happening 648 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: at the moment, and there's a lot of holes. You know, 649 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: it's not the complete story. So people just judge you 650 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: or your relationship or your marriage, you know, based on 651 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 1: what they see, which really isn't fair. But you know, 652 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: and it's really hard, you know, having to share, you know, 653 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: Unfortunately I had to share something very difficult for me 654 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,959 Speaker 1: because you know, I love this person. So when you're 655 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: in love with the person and it's not it was 656 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: just really difficult. It's just really difficult. I try for 657 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,239 Speaker 1: it not to affect me because, like I said, I 658 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: know the type of relationship you know that I'm in 659 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: and that I have, and you know the people, the 660 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: men that I've loved, so it's like I don't get 661 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: offended by any of that. Yeah, but definitely it's hard 662 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: because once you're a public person, like everybody has an 663 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: opinion about it, Like everybody talks about Jalo one event. 664 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: I'm like, and you read the comments and it's so 665 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: like heartbreaking. I'm like, you don't even know these people, like, 666 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 1: you don't even know how can you say something you 667 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 1: know so horrific? You know. Unfortunately, there's a lot of 668 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 1: people in the world with a lot of hate that 669 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: don't know what love is. They've never been in a relationship, 670 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: they've never had that love. Because no matter what I 671 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: was telling all my friends that think and divorce, I'm like, 672 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: and they want to talk bad. I'm like, you think 673 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: about the good, you know what I mean? There was 674 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: also good? You know, that's why you love this man. 675 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: So there was also a lot of good. There was 676 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 1: also a lot of love, and you know, that's what 677 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: I like to focus on, you know, on the love 678 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: of it. But it's definitely hard when you are in 679 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: the public eye. 680 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like you've really come to some version 681 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 2: of a reconciliation with it and are able to not 682 00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 2: imbibe all of the public feedback. 683 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, of course absolutely, you know, and there's going 684 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: to be people that you know that that like it. 685 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: You know that are good life on your favorite people 686 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: that are just gonna have an opinion, you know, you 687 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: know how that is. But honestly, I really don't let 688 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,400 Speaker 1: it affect me. You know, I really do care about, 689 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: you know what, my family and my close friends you 690 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,399 Speaker 1: know that have been with me and know more my life. 691 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: Then they're inside of it, you know, to say something. 692 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: But the public that doesn't really know me, that just 693 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: se is like a clip for two minutes, you know 694 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: on TV. I don't care about what they have to say. 695 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: You know, It's my life and I'm going to live 696 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: it the way I want to live it. And I'm 697 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: a good, kind person and I'm a loving person, and 698 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 1: you know, and that's you know I feel you know, 699 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 1: I feel good about you know, myself and whatever choice is. 700 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:42,320 Speaker 1: You know, I've been. 701 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 2: Such a good example of boundaries. I mean, obviously your 702 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 2: your situation is more on a macro scale, but on 703 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 2: a micro scale for anybody listening, it can be triggering, activating. 704 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 2: We can feel super heightened when we hear people have 705 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 2: feedback about us that doesn't feel good, you know, that 706 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 2: isn't well intentioned. And being able to create an internal 707 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 2: boundary if someone that we love and care about and 708 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 2: trust has feedback that they want to offer in a 709 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,240 Speaker 2: kind of respectful way that is very different than someone 710 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 2: doing it in an indirect implicit way or in a 711 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 2: direct aggressive way. And being able to recognize that when 712 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 2: feedback comes through that delivery system, it's not something that 713 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 2: we're responsible to take in in that manner. And really 714 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 2: being able to trust what we know about ourselves and 715 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 2: our intuition about ourselves. 716 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: So grateful that I am the way that I am, 717 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: because it's true, it could really affect a lot of people, 718 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,879 Speaker 1: you know, the mental health, because you know, if you're 719 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,120 Speaker 1: reading these things like every day, like the comes the 720 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: moment that you start believing them, you know. But thank 721 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 1: goodness for me that I'm not affected by, you know, 722 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,320 Speaker 1: by those things. But you know, I mean, in general, 723 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: going through anything, you know, in the public eye when 724 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: you're a public person, just makes it even more painful 725 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 1: and more difficult. 726 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 2: One thing that I do regularly has work with couples 727 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 2: that are going through divorces, amicable divorces all the way 728 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 2: to super high conflict divorces and co parenting and kiddos 729 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:18,360 Speaker 2: obviously can be an enormously painful, big issue through the 730 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:24,880 Speaker 2: divorce process. How has parenting and your relationship with your 731 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:26,799 Speaker 2: kids evolved through divorces. 732 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,359 Speaker 1: I've been very fortunate. So the father of my kids is, 733 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 1: you know, an amazing father, and they always taught a 734 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: g re relationship with him. So when I married my 735 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: second husband, Herman, he was like their father. Like my 736 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:41,879 Speaker 1: kids would say, I have two fathers. He was such 737 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 1: an incredible stepfather and they were friendly to so my 738 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 1: kids would say, you know, we're so lucky, you know, 739 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 1: we have two dads, you know. So I felt like 740 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: they had the best of both worlds because like what 741 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 1: Herman could give them, you know, the dad can't give them, 742 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,359 Speaker 1: and when the dad could give them, Herman can give them. 743 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 1: So they literally had two like amazing you know father figures, 744 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: you know, in different ways. And you know, and then 745 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: when I met Todd, my kids were already older, so 746 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:08,720 Speaker 1: it wasn't like it's different. I feel like it's different 747 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,319 Speaker 1: when they're younger than when they're older. And you know, 748 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 1: it just comes to like being like the friend, you 749 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: know what I mean, It's just being a friend. So 750 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,839 Speaker 1: it's my I've been very lucky when it comes with 751 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,759 Speaker 1: the kids, and you know, and the fathers or the 752 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 1: stepfathers if you want to call them, you know, being 753 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 1: you know involved with my kids. It's been about just 754 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: like about love and friendship and just you know going 755 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,879 Speaker 1: out like nobody is like try to outdo the other, 756 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like I just want to 757 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: be your friend. I'm not here to you know, to 758 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,319 Speaker 1: substitute or take away from your dad. You know, We're 759 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 1: just all want to get along and we all want 760 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: to be friends. And that's and that's what it's like. 761 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,080 Speaker 1: That that's what it's been. So thank God that I've 762 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 1: had that. So that's made it so much easier because 763 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 1: that's very difficult. I can imagine for a mom. 764 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,319 Speaker 2: It's a really good template and you're right by definition, 765 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 2: it has a catch of being very difficult and confrontative 766 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 2: for all the parties involved, especially the kids. And so 767 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,319 Speaker 2: I think when the new person, the new partner and 768 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,799 Speaker 2: new stepparent, et cetera, comes into the picture, taking on 769 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 2: the sort of role that you were describing as you know, 770 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 2: a friend, a positive presence, you know, like any community 771 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 2: member might be in a family unit, I think is 772 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 2: a really good place to start, and if it evolves 773 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 2: from there, that's amazing and beautiful and fortunate. And if 774 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 2: it just remains and I put justin quotes because it's amazing, 775 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,479 Speaker 2: but as a as a a trust and safe other 776 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,399 Speaker 2: that's part of your community, that that's an enormous win 777 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:37,480 Speaker 2: given the scenario. 778 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's very complex, so that we can 779 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,880 Speaker 1: talk about all days. Really, it's so like situational, like 780 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,799 Speaker 1: it depends on you know, everybody has a different circumstance, 781 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: a different situation, you know, backstory, past history. I mean, 782 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,319 Speaker 1: it's very you know, but luckily for me, for me 783 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 1: it was it's been very very good. 784 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm aware that your son was 785 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 2: in an accident a number of years back. How is 786 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 2: he sharing me at this point? 787 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 1: Weok, oh, No, he's twenty eight years old. He's doing amazing. 788 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: He has a brain injury, so he suffers from aphasia 789 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 1: and he has a communication disorder. So something like that. 790 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 1: Families that have gone through something like that, it changes 791 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 1: the whole dynamics of your family and of your relationship. 792 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 1: So I was married to herman at the time, and 793 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,239 Speaker 1: he couldn't have been better than what he was. He 794 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: was an incredible man, and it brought us together as 795 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 1: a family more, but it also created distance in my 796 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:43,359 Speaker 1: relationship with him because Frankie became my priority. I mean, 797 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: I didn't you know, I was in a hospital for 798 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 1: almost a year. I came back home and we had 799 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,319 Speaker 1: our room upstairs and Frankie had his room downstairs, and 800 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,800 Speaker 1: I wanted to see with Frankie. I've never left Frankie's side, 801 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,280 Speaker 1: so it's like I didn't realize what I was doing 802 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 1: right like as a woman, because I needed to save 803 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 1: my son. And he was so good that he was 804 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:02,279 Speaker 1: okay with it. You know, he's like, no, you know, 805 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,799 Speaker 1: it's okay. I understand, but you know, it's hard. You know, 806 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,880 Speaker 1: it's hard being in a situation like that. And unfortunately, 807 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,240 Speaker 1: families that have gone through something like that, if they're listening, 808 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: they can relate to this. And because you know, you 809 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 1: do become closer in so many ways because we did. 810 00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 1: And by the way, with the father too, it's like, 811 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: you know, we have the father, the stepfather, and we 812 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,319 Speaker 1: became so close. But you know, as a couple, we 813 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 1: became distant because my head was not there. You know, 814 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 1: I just couldn't function and I was afraid that I 815 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,720 Speaker 1: slept upstairs and you know, Frank he and the moon downstairs, 816 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,040 Speaker 1: anything would happen, I wouldn't hear, so it just you know, 817 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,840 Speaker 1: it affected our relationship as a couple eventually. 818 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,000 Speaker 2: I really appreciate you talking about this. It is true 819 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,040 Speaker 2: you kind of alluded to this that when a family 820 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,280 Speaker 2: system goes through a trauma like that, it can often 821 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:58,200 Speaker 2: result in a divorce because the family system is as 822 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,399 Speaker 2: you knew that, it sort of obliteratedcommodate the trauma. I mean, 823 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 2: and as a mother of a young son that you 824 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 2: had another choice. Of of course, you were going to 825 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,839 Speaker 2: be by by his side. And you know, I often 826 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 2: called it like the land of bad choices. You're either 827 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,840 Speaker 2: not with your son every moment, or you're not tending 828 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:21,080 Speaker 2: to your primary romantic relationship as you want to or should, 829 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,399 Speaker 2: and you have to prioritize your son, who's ailing at 830 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,680 Speaker 2: that time. But it's I'm glad we're having this dialogue because, 831 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:30,759 Speaker 2: like you were mentioning, of course you're in trauma, you're 832 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,680 Speaker 2: in crisis. You're not reflecting on the impact. 833 00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:36,600 Speaker 1: My whole family was affected. I wasn't even focusing on 834 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,040 Speaker 1: my son Peter that also was crying out for help. 835 00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: It's like your whole family falls apart. 836 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,880 Speaker 2: That's right. And look, when trauma happens, it's going to 837 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,759 Speaker 2: have an impact and there's nothing we can do to 838 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,720 Speaker 2: pre prepare for it. But I like that we're talking 839 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:56,040 Speaker 2: about it because when someone is going through a chronic trauma, 840 00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,440 Speaker 2: like I imagine you were, because the recovery I'm sure was extensive, 841 00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 2: you know, being able to include in your paradigm eventually 842 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,920 Speaker 2: when your system returns somewhat from fight or flight around like, 843 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,880 Speaker 2: what's happening to our overall family system? And how can 844 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:10,640 Speaker 2: I attend to it? 845 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:13,920 Speaker 1: And it wasn't even his biological son, even though he 846 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,319 Speaker 1: for him it was like his son, like Frankie was 847 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,799 Speaker 1: his son, but you know, so he was so good 848 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,399 Speaker 1: that it wasn't even like his biological son. And he 849 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,560 Speaker 1: was there just like the goad and you know, and 850 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 1: that's not what we got divorced, you know. But like 851 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,719 Speaker 1: I said, when it was time to focus on my marriage, 852 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,600 Speaker 1: it was kind of like too late, yeah, because you know, 853 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,400 Speaker 1: I had saved Frankie. You know, I had saved my 854 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,480 Speaker 1: other son, Peter. I was trying to save my I 855 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,680 Speaker 1: had to save him. I was like, okay, like what 856 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:42,160 Speaker 1: about me? You know what I mean, it was like 857 00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,480 Speaker 1: it was it was too too much. Yeah, And I've 858 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,840 Speaker 1: never gone to therapy that like fixed myself, like oh my, 859 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,319 Speaker 1: you know, like the kind of therapy. Actually just went 860 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,920 Speaker 1: to therapy once after my father passed away. That was 861 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:56,799 Speaker 1: really the first time in my life and it was 862 00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:01,439 Speaker 1: really difficult. I was twenty three years old and I yeah, 863 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,360 Speaker 1: that to me was very very bad. It was my 864 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 1: first trauma and that was really the only time that 865 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:07,920 Speaker 1: my mom's like I can't even help you, like I 866 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,600 Speaker 1: need to send you to psychiatrists and and whatnot. But 867 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:13,440 Speaker 1: back in the day didn't want that many therapists. There 868 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,839 Speaker 1: was more psychiatrists. You know, they would medicate you, which 869 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,400 Speaker 1: you know, my mom didn't want, so we never really 870 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:20,799 Speaker 1: did that. But it was it was tough. 871 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:26,800 Speaker 2: I'm I'm struck and impressed by your ability to self 872 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:30,520 Speaker 2: reflect and your level of insight. Not that therapy is 873 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,239 Speaker 2: the only way to get there, it's not, but you've 874 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:37,080 Speaker 2: really done some extensive, intentional, deliberate work. It's obvious from 875 00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:38,480 Speaker 2: the way that you're talking about it. 876 00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 1: Well, thank you all. I like, if I would have 877 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,040 Speaker 1: met you, then maybe I would have gone to you, 878 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:44,759 Speaker 1: because I like it if you got back to me, 879 00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,799 Speaker 1: I feel like I've gone I have tried it, but 880 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,319 Speaker 1: I felt like I go talk to Hillary and then 881 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,640 Speaker 1: I'm like pouring like my heart out and just talking 882 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,280 Speaker 1: and saying then it's you kind of like going back 883 00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,799 Speaker 1: to that pain right that you lived and I don't 884 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,080 Speaker 1: want to we visit that pain again. I was there, 885 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,959 Speaker 1: I suffered it, I write about it, so I feel 886 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,080 Speaker 1: like I'm on the other side. And then, you know, 887 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,920 Speaker 1: we they want to know like since you started your childhood, 888 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,160 Speaker 1: what do you you know? And to me, I don't 889 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,880 Speaker 1: see like progress, And then I haven't had somebody like 890 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,879 Speaker 1: you that you know that communicates. Also like you're giving 891 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:19,879 Speaker 1: me you know, it's a conversation. You know. I feel 892 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 1: like they're just like writing you want to know everything 893 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,279 Speaker 1: about me? And then I'm like, okay, well do you 894 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,160 Speaker 1: have anything to say, like what's wrong with me? Like 895 00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,920 Speaker 1: how can you help me? Yeah? 896 00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I'm actually really glad you're saying that, 897 00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:35,840 Speaker 2: because I think one thing that you need to speaking 898 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,080 Speaker 2: about advocacy. You really need to be an advocate for yourself. 899 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,720 Speaker 2: If you're interested in therapy and you're pursuing a therapeutic connection, 900 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:47,799 Speaker 2: that interviewing therapists is okay and recommend it. You know, 901 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,239 Speaker 2: you really want to find someone that resonates with your 902 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,760 Speaker 2: particular style and that feels right, as you just alluded 903 00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:56,959 Speaker 2: to you. Obviously, the goal is to go into things 904 00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:01,080 Speaker 2: that are hard and painful, and there's quote right way 905 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,960 Speaker 2: for a therapist to operate, I mean, except obvious limits. 906 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,759 Speaker 2: But finding someone that works the way that makes you 907 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:13,600 Speaker 2: feel the most comfortable is really important. And interviewing one, two, three, 908 00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,799 Speaker 2: four therapists is not only okay but recommend until you 909 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:18,799 Speaker 2: find someone that resonates. So I'm actually glad you brought 910 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:19,160 Speaker 2: that up. 911 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:21,279 Speaker 1: I'm happy to know that. 912 00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:27,120 Speaker 2: I'm so glad that we got to talk today again. Yes, 913 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,360 Speaker 2: I hope we get to do another check and sometime soon. 914 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,359 Speaker 1: I feel like we need to. Now I'm more thank 915 00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:38,279 Speaker 1: you for making me feel comfortable, and it was really 916 00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:39,160 Speaker 1: nice talking to you. 917 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,960 Speaker 2: It was really nice talking to you too, Okay. 918 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:45,080 Speaker 1: Doctor Hillary. This has been incredible for me just to 919 00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:49,120 Speaker 1: have a conversation and to get more clarity on what 920 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,879 Speaker 1: is important in life, what's important in my life, what's 921 00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:54,920 Speaker 1: important in all you listeners that are listening, what's important 922 00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,640 Speaker 1: in your life? Are you wanting to get clear on 923 00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:01,200 Speaker 1: what you want and deserving your next relationship. We can 924 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,680 Speaker 1: help with that. Call us or email us. All the 925 00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,040 Speaker 1: information is in the show notes. Follow us on socials. 926 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,120 Speaker 1: Make sure to rate and review the podcasts I Do 927 00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,560 Speaker 1: Part two and iHeart podcasts. Or falling in love is 928 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:14,640 Speaker 1: the main objective