WEBVTT - Amanda Knox Wants Us to Move On 0:00:14.916 --> 0:00:36.956 Pushkin. When I was told you're guilty and you're sentenced 0:00:36.956 --> 0:00:41.156 to twenty six years, I mean everything I thought to 0:00:41.196 --> 0:00:44.796 be true about the world collapsed in on itself and 0:00:45.276 --> 0:00:50.676 I had this kind of quick an adaptation in my 0:00:50.756 --> 0:00:55.316 mind where I thought, oh, I'm not this lost tourist 0:00:55.836 --> 0:00:59.916 who's waiting to go home. I am a prisoner. Like 0:00:59.996 --> 0:01:02.756 this isn't just a thing that is happening to me. 0:01:02.796 --> 0:01:05.676 This is my life, and whether or not it's based 0:01:05.716 --> 0:01:09.556 in truth, this defines me. I've just been defined killer. 0:01:10.596 --> 0:01:13.796 That's Amanda Knox describing the moment when an Italian court 0:01:13.836 --> 0:01:16.876 found her guilty of a heinous crime she did not commit, 0:01:17.436 --> 0:01:20.996 the murder of her roommate, Meredith Kircher. Amanda was just 0:01:21.116 --> 0:01:24.396 twenty years old when this all unfolded. She spent four 0:01:24.516 --> 0:01:27.796 years in an Italian prison before she was finally exonerated 0:01:28.036 --> 0:01:31.796 and allowed to return home to America, but the reality 0:01:31.836 --> 0:01:34.356 of what she faced upon her return was not at 0:01:34.396 --> 0:01:38.396 all what she expected. When I first came home, I 0:01:38.596 --> 0:01:41.236 thought that I was going to get to have the 0:01:41.396 --> 0:01:47.076 life that I had left behind back that once this 0:01:47.196 --> 0:01:49.516 is all worked out and everyone agrees that I'm innocent, 0:01:49.676 --> 0:01:52.076 then I get to go back to my life that 0:01:52.396 --> 0:01:56.476 I lost that was on pause, and I realized that 0:01:56.476 --> 0:02:02.756 that life didn't exist anymore. On today's episode, what happens 0:02:02.796 --> 0:02:07.916 when the world simply won't let you move on? I'm 0:02:07.956 --> 0:02:11.156 Maya Shunker. This is a slight change of plans, a 0:02:11.236 --> 0:02:13.956 show about who we are and who we become in 0:02:13.996 --> 0:02:20.276 the face of a big change, you know, to begin 0:02:20.316 --> 0:02:22.876 with it, it's so interesting. Typically for a guest with 0:02:23.356 --> 0:02:25.436 your story, you know, I would do the work of 0:02:25.436 --> 0:02:28.196 trying to figure out, Okay, how do I summarize for 0:02:28.236 --> 0:02:31.116 the listener what it is that this person has gone through. 0:02:31.996 --> 0:02:34.556 But because so many people have tried to appropriate your 0:02:34.596 --> 0:02:36.796 story over the years, I don't want to do that. 0:02:37.316 --> 0:02:40.196 I want this, Amanda. I want to hear your story 0:02:40.316 --> 0:02:44.036 in your words, absolutely, and thank you for that. When 0:02:44.076 --> 0:02:46.516 I was twenty years old, I decided that I wanted 0:02:46.516 --> 0:02:49.556 to study abroad. I ended up choosing a program and 0:02:49.556 --> 0:02:54.676 a really small, ancient city in the middle of Italy 0:02:54.796 --> 0:03:00.596 called Perusia. I moved into an apartment in a small 0:03:00.636 --> 0:03:04.756 house overlooking this beautiful valley with three other young women, 0:03:05.716 --> 0:03:09.996 two Italian girls and a British stud who was just 0:03:10.116 --> 0:03:13.916 like a year older. Than me named Meredith, and the 0:03:13.996 --> 0:03:17.836 day after Halloween, on November first, I was hanging out 0:03:17.876 --> 0:03:23.716 with my new like love fling of five days, Rafaeli Solecho, 0:03:23.916 --> 0:03:28.876 and Meredith was home alone and a local burglar named 0:03:28.956 --> 0:03:32.636 Rudy Giday broke into our home and raped and murdered 0:03:32.636 --> 0:03:38.436 her and then fled the country. And I discovered all 0:03:38.436 --> 0:03:40.316 of this by coming home the next day to take 0:03:40.356 --> 0:03:43.756 a shower and noticing that our home was in disarray. 0:03:44.316 --> 0:03:48.196 I had I brought Raphaeli over, we called the police together. 0:03:48.316 --> 0:03:52.076 The police came and discovered the crime scene, meredith body, 0:03:52.116 --> 0:03:55.516 which fortunately I never had to see in person, but 0:03:55.676 --> 0:04:01.156 unfortunately there was a lot of frantic energy, a lot 0:04:01.156 --> 0:04:04.916 of confusion, a lot of fear in those opening. You know. 0:04:05.676 --> 0:04:09.236 Days after the murder was discovered, it was immediately of 0:04:09.556 --> 0:04:15.516 tremendous public interest. International media was descending upon Perugia, talking 0:04:15.516 --> 0:04:18.916 to any single person that they possibly could. Meanwhile, I'm 0:04:18.956 --> 0:04:21.356 spending hours and hours and hours at the police station 0:04:21.516 --> 0:04:24.396 trying to help the police uncover what happened to my friend. 0:04:24.956 --> 0:04:30.596 And I spent about fifty three hours over five days 0:04:30.796 --> 0:04:34.436 in that police office, being questioned over and over and 0:04:34.596 --> 0:04:37.556 over again, telling them the same story that I've been 0:04:37.596 --> 0:04:40.436 telling them what happened that night as far as I knew, 0:04:40.636 --> 0:04:42.716 and they were telling me that I was wrong, that 0:04:42.876 --> 0:04:48.036 everything that I remembered was wrong, that I was traumatized, 0:04:48.356 --> 0:04:52.796 and that my freedom and my access to my family 0:04:52.836 --> 0:04:56.916 depended upon me remembering something that I couldn't remember. And 0:04:57.316 --> 0:05:01.996 I was alone, I was speaking of foreign language, I 0:05:02.036 --> 0:05:05.036 was without a lawyer. I was asking for my mom, 0:05:05.076 --> 0:05:08.876 I was asking for any help whatsoever, and instead I 0:05:08.876 --> 0:05:12.796 got slapped and screamed at four hours until I was 0:05:12.876 --> 0:05:17.356 willing to sign a statement that they wrote implicating my 0:05:17.476 --> 0:05:20.876 boss Patrick, the Mumba. I caved. It was the only 0:05:20.916 --> 0:05:22.996 thing that made sense to me anymore. I started to 0:05:23.036 --> 0:05:28.556 doubt my own sanity, and I signed those papers and 0:05:29.316 --> 0:05:33.276 they immediately ran off to go arrest my boss Patrick, 0:05:33.796 --> 0:05:37.836 and I was finally left alone to breathe and think 0:05:38.276 --> 0:05:44.916 straight after hours of horrible treatment, and I immediately recanted. 0:05:45.716 --> 0:05:48.476 I told them, oh my god, there's a huge mistake. 0:05:48.636 --> 0:05:51.076 I was under a lot of pressure. I don't actually 0:05:51.476 --> 0:05:55.836 remember witnessing any murder whatsoever. Like they wouldn't listen to me. 0:05:55.996 --> 0:05:58.996 They told me that with time, my memories would come 0:05:59.036 --> 0:06:02.396 back and that I just needed to be quiet, and like, 0:06:02.676 --> 0:06:04.636 just a few days later, I was brought before a 0:06:04.716 --> 0:06:09.236 judge and finally finally told you are under investigation for 0:06:09.276 --> 0:06:14.236 the murder of Meredith Kirture. So there's a few critical 0:06:14.276 --> 0:06:17.556 moments in what you just described that I'm interested to 0:06:17.596 --> 0:06:21.076 hear more about, in particular what your psychology was like 0:06:21.116 --> 0:06:24.036 at the time, as well as how you might think 0:06:24.036 --> 0:06:28.196 differently about that experience now. And the first is, you know, 0:06:28.196 --> 0:06:30.636 when you were trying to be helpful to the police 0:06:30.756 --> 0:06:34.636 right to help identify who the murderer was, they began 0:06:34.756 --> 0:06:39.476 using aggressive interrogation tactics on you. As you said, they 0:06:39.636 --> 0:06:42.956 accused you of having amnesia. It led you to engage 0:06:42.996 --> 0:06:48.596 in false confessions. And I can only imagine how traumatizing 0:06:48.596 --> 0:06:51.676 it is to go through something like that, especially when 0:06:51.676 --> 0:06:55.476 you don't understand that the human mind is in fact 0:06:55.516 --> 0:06:58.156 capable of such things, right. I think it is actually 0:06:58.196 --> 0:07:01.916 really hard for most people to appreciate the conditions under 0:07:01.956 --> 0:07:05.716 which they would be likely to generate false memories or 0:07:05.756 --> 0:07:09.716 false confessions. And I think the reason why I feel 0:07:09.716 --> 0:07:11.756 like that's this is such an important part of your 0:07:11.796 --> 0:07:16.316 story to bring to light is that when when you 0:07:16.356 --> 0:07:20.116 are made to question your own sanity, your own ability 0:07:20.316 --> 0:07:26.956 to accurately reason about the world around you. That is damaging. 0:07:27.036 --> 0:07:30.396 That puts you in a state where I imagine it's 0:07:30.436 --> 0:07:34.116 easy to feel broken because you start asking yourself questions 0:07:34.156 --> 0:07:36.876 like how how was I capable of that? How was 0:07:36.916 --> 0:07:41.956 I capable of implicating this totally innocent person? Yeah? Absolutely, um, 0:07:41.996 --> 0:07:46.276 And that's actually a really interesting way of framing that question, 0:07:46.356 --> 0:07:50.916 because of course, going into an interrogation room, you don't 0:07:50.956 --> 0:07:54.716 think I would ever say anything that would that I 0:07:54.756 --> 0:07:57.116 don't know to be true, and that would that would 0:07:57.156 --> 0:08:00.276 implicate me or not be to like you know, that 0:08:00.316 --> 0:08:03.396 could be compromising to oneself, Like that's that is it's 0:08:03.436 --> 0:08:07.516 so counterintuitive. I didn't know that this was possible. I 0:08:07.556 --> 0:08:09.876 didn't even know the police could lie to you like 0:08:09.956 --> 0:08:12.076 I did. I just there was so much I didn't know, 0:08:12.636 --> 0:08:17.516 and I therefore, like my instinct when all of this 0:08:17.956 --> 0:08:21.836 became a catastrophe was to blame myself because I didn't 0:08:21.836 --> 0:08:24.356 know else who else to blame. I didn't know that 0:08:24.396 --> 0:08:29.516 there was a specific police interrogation technique designed to break 0:08:29.556 --> 0:08:33.356 down people to just admit to something. And it wasn't 0:08:33.436 --> 0:08:39.836 until a cognitive scientist who studies false confessions reached out 0:08:39.876 --> 0:08:43.036 to me, and it was while I was still in prison, 0:08:43.156 --> 0:08:46.436 it was after I had been convicted. He didn't share 0:08:46.436 --> 0:08:48.716 any research with me at first. He just said, please 0:08:48.756 --> 0:08:52.316 describe everything you can possibly remember about your interrogation and 0:08:52.356 --> 0:08:54.636 send it to me. So I did, and it was 0:08:54.756 --> 0:08:57.916 it was hard even doing that because it was the 0:08:58.196 --> 0:09:01.236 scariest moment of my life, the most confusing moment of 0:09:01.276 --> 0:09:03.676 my life, and it's the moment of my life that 0:09:03.716 --> 0:09:07.476 I felt the most shame about because I just I 0:09:07.516 --> 0:09:12.076 couldn't explain even to myself why it happened. I honestly couldn't. 0:09:12.076 --> 0:09:13.956 I just felt like there was something wrong with me, 0:09:13.996 --> 0:09:15.516 and I was the only one in the world that 0:09:15.636 --> 0:09:17.836 had that had ever happened too, as far as I knew, 0:09:17.956 --> 0:09:20.916 And of course everyone was judging me as a bad 0:09:20.916 --> 0:09:25.076 person because of it. And then he responded by sending 0:09:25.196 --> 0:09:29.556 me back his research, and his research showed that the 0:09:29.716 --> 0:09:33.956 exact way that they had broken me down was just 0:09:34.116 --> 0:09:38.476 like you know, point for point, just how you break 0:09:38.556 --> 0:09:47.116 down innocent people. And that moment of relief and self 0:09:47.116 --> 0:09:51.556 forgiveness was tremendous for me because it was at that 0:09:51.676 --> 0:09:56.636 point that I really really understood that my wrongful conviction 0:09:56.796 --> 0:09:59.956 wasn't really my fault, that I had been set up, 0:10:00.636 --> 0:10:05.996 and that there were a lot of forces at play, 0:10:06.036 --> 0:10:08.196 a lot of people who had, you know, a ton 0:10:08.236 --> 0:10:11.076 of agency in this equation, and I was the least 0:10:11.116 --> 0:10:14.516 among them. I was at the mercy of people who 0:10:14.596 --> 0:10:19.996 were not just taking advantage of me, but actively trying 0:10:19.996 --> 0:10:24.676 to destroy my life. Yeah. I like to talk for 0:10:24.716 --> 0:10:27.036 a bit about the time that you spent in prison, 0:10:27.196 --> 0:10:30.956 because you spent four years in full, but at one 0:10:31.036 --> 0:10:34.516 point you were sentenced to twenty six years in prison. Yes, 0:10:34.836 --> 0:10:39.116 and as an early twenty something, twenty six years is 0:10:39.116 --> 0:10:43.076 like your entire freaking life. It is your entire freaking life. Yes, 0:10:43.956 --> 0:10:47.356 I want to know what was your relationship with Hope 0:10:48.116 --> 0:10:50.716 during your time in prison, And I'm just curious if 0:10:50.716 --> 0:10:53.596 you can dig into that a bit. Yeah, absolutely so. 0:10:53.756 --> 0:10:58.836 And it's interesting how I had like this tremendous shift 0:10:58.916 --> 0:11:01.836 happen because the first two years, while I was still 0:11:01.836 --> 0:11:03.996 on trial and believing that all of this was just 0:11:04.276 --> 0:11:08.996 a huge out of proportion misunderstanding, I was convinced that 0:11:09.196 --> 0:11:12.956 I was going to eventually be going home. And there 0:11:12.956 --> 0:11:15.556 were moments in that time where I was just like, oh, 0:11:15.596 --> 0:11:19.716 my god, you know, I've been here so long, Like 0:11:19.756 --> 0:11:22.356 I missed my twenty first birthday that I you know, 0:11:22.796 --> 0:11:24.916 I had always thought, Oh I would go and have 0:11:24.996 --> 0:11:29.196 a drink with my dad. Nope, that didn't happen. So 0:11:29.396 --> 0:11:32.796 feeling like I was losing really important parts of my life, 0:11:32.796 --> 0:11:37.236 but ultimately thinking this is a really really long nightmare 0:11:37.476 --> 0:11:40.556 that does have an expiration date, and that expiration date 0:11:40.676 --> 0:11:44.756 is the verdict. And my family, especially my mom, very 0:11:44.836 --> 0:11:46.676 much like that was sort of our mantra that there's 0:11:46.716 --> 0:11:50.116 a light at the end of this very long dark tunnel. 0:11:50.476 --> 0:11:57.196 And when I then was told you're guilty and you're 0:11:57.316 --> 0:12:01.876 sentenced to twenty six years, I mean everything I thought 0:12:01.876 --> 0:12:04.756 to be true about the world collapsed in on itself. 0:12:05.876 --> 0:12:09.236 I very much felt like the ground beneath me had 0:12:09.236 --> 0:12:11.356 fallen away and I had nothing to stand on. I 0:12:11.836 --> 0:12:15.156 literally collapsed between you know, my attorneys, and then the 0:12:15.156 --> 0:12:17.156 guards sort of had to carry me out of this 0:12:17.236 --> 0:12:21.596 courtroom where I'm hysterical, like unable to believe what is happening. 0:12:22.236 --> 0:12:27.396 And I had this very very i mean kind of 0:12:27.516 --> 0:12:33.436 quick an adaptation in my mind where I thought, oh, 0:12:33.516 --> 0:12:37.716 I'm not this lost tourist who's waiting to go home. 0:12:38.556 --> 0:12:42.076 I am a prisoner, Like this isn't just a thing 0:12:42.116 --> 0:12:44.916 that is happening to me. This is my life. This 0:12:44.996 --> 0:12:47.716 is my life now, and whether or not it's based 0:12:47.756 --> 0:12:51.596 in truth, this defines me. I've just been defined a killer, 0:12:52.076 --> 0:12:54.996 and I have just been told the only place that 0:12:55.076 --> 0:12:59.276 you belong is behind bars for the majority of your life. 0:12:59.556 --> 0:13:02.756 And all those things that you thought that you would 0:13:02.796 --> 0:13:05.476 get to have in your life, a family, a career, 0:13:05.996 --> 0:13:10.436 the opportunity to be with your family and and watch 0:13:10.476 --> 0:13:13.476 your nephews grow and your kids grow, and all of 0:13:13.476 --> 0:13:15.076 these things that I thought were going to be a 0:13:15.116 --> 0:13:18.236 part of my life were not a part of my life. 0:13:18.436 --> 0:13:20.356 That was never going to be a part of my life. 0:13:21.076 --> 0:13:28.316 And and what is my life? Then? Who am? I? 0:13:29.796 --> 0:13:33.436 And my mom had a very different relationship with Hope 0:13:33.476 --> 0:13:37.916 than I did. She didn't have that shift happen when 0:13:37.916 --> 0:13:40.356 I was convicted. She looked at this and I think 0:13:40.436 --> 0:13:43.196 just out of desperation, like, oh, the tunnel is just 0:13:43.356 --> 0:13:46.196 longer than we thought it was. But you are going 0:13:46.236 --> 0:13:48.196 to get out. You are going to be found innocent, 0:13:48.236 --> 0:13:50.916 You are going to be vindicated. You are innocent. You're 0:13:50.956 --> 0:13:54.396 my daughter, You're going to come home. And after my conviction, 0:13:54.516 --> 0:13:57.676 I wasn't sure about that anymore, like I didn't have 0:13:57.716 --> 0:14:02.396 any reason to believe that anymore. And I ended up 0:14:02.436 --> 0:14:05.716 having really really difficult conversations with her where I said, well, 0:14:06.156 --> 0:14:08.676 I hope that happens, Mom, but if it doesn't, I 0:14:08.716 --> 0:14:13.116 hope that I can achieve this goal in the prison environment. 0:14:13.276 --> 0:14:15.756 Or I hope that one day I'll be able to, 0:14:15.876 --> 0:14:19.036 you know, write about my experience so that i'm you know, 0:14:19.076 --> 0:14:23.716 at least one voice voicing my experience in this huge, 0:14:23.756 --> 0:14:26.356 you know, world of voices who are calling me a murderer, 0:14:27.116 --> 0:14:30.036 and maybe one day it'll matter. I hope that I 0:14:30.276 --> 0:14:32.356 stay healthy. I hope that I don't get sick like 0:14:32.436 --> 0:14:38.116 all these things. And my mom viewed that as a 0:14:38.236 --> 0:14:41.396 kind of mental giving up, like I had given up 0:14:41.436 --> 0:14:44.236 on the fight for my innocence, and I hadn't. It's 0:14:44.276 --> 0:14:48.756 just that I had to live. It was very apparent 0:14:48.796 --> 0:14:51.756 to me that I was not. Like at the end 0:14:51.796 --> 0:14:54.756 of the day, every day I went back to my cell, 0:14:55.196 --> 0:15:00.476 back to my cot and that's where I stayed. Amana, 0:15:00.516 --> 0:15:02.636 how do you get through those days? I mean, you said, 0:15:02.636 --> 0:15:08.196 you're you're having to confront this idea of inhabiting this 0:15:08.316 --> 0:15:11.276 new identity, this identity that's been thrust upon you, which 0:15:11.316 --> 0:15:16.476 is prisoner, and it's it's been unjustifiably thrust upon you. Well, um, 0:15:16.556 --> 0:15:20.036 the first step was acknowledging that this is a community, 0:15:20.516 --> 0:15:23.716 but it is full of a lot of a lot 0:15:23.716 --> 0:15:27.876 of human suffering and a lot of humanity. I lived 0:15:27.916 --> 0:15:32.836 alongside people who had done really horrible things, and these 0:15:32.876 --> 0:15:36.796 were my people, I guess is a way of saying 0:15:36.836 --> 0:15:39.796 it like this, This was my community, whether I liked 0:15:39.796 --> 0:15:44.196 it or not. And I started to realize that I 0:15:44.276 --> 0:15:48.516 wasn't just sort of a separate or a part entity 0:15:48.556 --> 0:15:51.756 of it. I was an integral entity in that community. 0:15:52.276 --> 0:15:55.516 And I started to think about what is my role 0:15:55.636 --> 0:15:59.716 in it? What can what can I do? What is 0:15:59.716 --> 0:16:02.956 the best thing that I can do in that space? 0:16:03.356 --> 0:16:05.916 And so I ended up spending a lot of time 0:16:06.356 --> 0:16:11.236 helping people write letters. Another job was simply acting as translator. 0:16:11.276 --> 0:16:14.476 There was no translator available to any of the prisoners, 0:16:14.516 --> 0:16:18.316 so any prisoners who didn't speak Italian had no way 0:16:18.316 --> 0:16:22.636 of knowing what court documents they were signing, or how 0:16:22.676 --> 0:16:25.396 to tell the doctor that they weren't feeling well, and 0:16:25.476 --> 0:16:29.756 so I was constantly called in to help other prisoners 0:16:30.196 --> 0:16:36.836 understand what was happening and translating for them. What was 0:16:36.836 --> 0:16:39.356 your contact with the outside world like during this time? 0:16:39.396 --> 0:16:44.236 I mean, did you have family and friends, emotional psychological 0:16:44.276 --> 0:16:48.596 support helping to ground you in your new reality. So 0:16:48.796 --> 0:16:51.756 the thing that was the hardest for my family was, 0:16:51.796 --> 0:16:54.436 of course that they at a certain point they couldn't 0:16:54.436 --> 0:16:57.636 hold my hand right like at the end of a visitation. 0:16:57.916 --> 0:17:01.876 They went one way and I went another. And I 0:17:02.076 --> 0:17:05.236 know that like if my mom could have traded places 0:17:05.236 --> 0:17:08.196 with me, she would have in a second, but she couldn't. 0:17:09.316 --> 0:17:12.076 All they could do was try to remind me that 0:17:12.196 --> 0:17:15.436 I didn't belong there, that I had a home and 0:17:15.476 --> 0:17:17.516 I had a life, and I had people who cared 0:17:17.556 --> 0:17:21.276 about me waiting for me. So I had one ten 0:17:21.316 --> 0:17:24.676 minute phone call a week. Every every week, my family 0:17:24.676 --> 0:17:27.236 and friends piled into my mom's house for a six 0:17:27.276 --> 0:17:30.956 am ten minute phone call just to hear my voice 0:17:30.956 --> 0:17:33.636 and let me know that they were they remembered me 0:17:33.756 --> 0:17:39.556 and that they cared about me. And one day I 0:17:39.636 --> 0:17:43.116 was waiting at my cell door like usual, because I 0:17:43.196 --> 0:17:45.636 knew the exact time that I would go and have 0:17:45.716 --> 0:17:53.716 my call and the guard didn't come, and I called 0:17:53.716 --> 0:17:59.996 out a gente la teta guard guard my phone call 0:18:00.676 --> 0:18:04.796 and I called again, No one answered. I called again, 0:18:05.516 --> 0:18:08.756 No one answered. I spent a good half an hour 0:18:10.396 --> 0:18:15.676 getting more and more anxious and miserable and desperate and 0:18:16.156 --> 0:18:20.876 crying and yelling and feeling like a caged animal, until 0:18:21.076 --> 0:18:25.036 finally a guard came up and was like, what the 0:18:25.036 --> 0:18:27.316 hell are you screaming about? And I was like, my 0:18:27.396 --> 0:18:29.916 phone call, my phone call? Have I missed my phone call? 0:18:30.036 --> 0:18:32.716 And they said, we're not doing phone calls today. We're low, 0:18:33.076 --> 0:18:35.876 we're short staffed, we're not doing phone calls today. They 0:18:35.916 --> 0:18:38.676 just approached me and we're like, what are you crying about? 0:18:38.756 --> 0:18:43.236 Like shut up? And that was one of those moments 0:18:43.236 --> 0:18:47.316 where I felt like, Wow, I am sub human right now, 0:18:47.956 --> 0:18:51.596 Like it didn't even occur to them to tell me. 0:18:52.596 --> 0:18:54.796 It didn't occur to them that that would matter to me, 0:18:55.596 --> 0:19:00.396 and it was I had this moment of worry that 0:19:01.356 --> 0:19:04.836 no matter how hard my family and friends tried, our 0:19:04.876 --> 0:19:10.596 lives were diverging so drastically that we would become strangers 0:19:10.636 --> 0:19:13.916 to each other despite our best efforts, just because I 0:19:13.996 --> 0:19:17.676 was living such a different existence than they were, and 0:19:18.076 --> 0:19:23.676 my world and my opportunities and the psychological effort that 0:19:23.716 --> 0:19:26.436 I had to put in to deal with the situation 0:19:26.476 --> 0:19:32.676 that I was in was very different than theirs. Yeah. Yeah, 0:19:32.796 --> 0:19:36.356 can you paint the scene for me of the day 0:19:36.356 --> 0:19:39.396 that you were acquitted? Yes? What was that day? Like? 0:19:41.236 --> 0:19:46.596 That was a really bizarre day that I'll just have 0:19:46.676 --> 0:19:50.316 to describe it to you. So I got up, I 0:19:50.356 --> 0:19:53.076 got dressed, I did the normal going down, get into 0:19:53.076 --> 0:19:55.916 the prison van. I was brought up into the courtroom. 0:19:55.956 --> 0:19:59.036 Everyone had their final word, and the court was dismissed 0:19:59.036 --> 0:20:00.836 for the day, and I was brought back to the 0:20:00.876 --> 0:20:04.596 prison and I knew that it was going to take 0:20:04.636 --> 0:20:07.236 a long time, that I had several hours ahead of 0:20:07.276 --> 0:20:09.956 me of not knowing what was going to happen. I 0:20:10.076 --> 0:20:12.276 tried to distract myself in the meantime, and I had 0:20:12.316 --> 0:20:16.356 a very hard time of it. And ultimately my relief 0:20:16.476 --> 0:20:20.596 came when the prison chaplain, who had become a good 0:20:20.596 --> 0:20:23.116 friend of mine despite the fact that I'm actually, you know, 0:20:23.436 --> 0:20:28.196 an atheist, he invited me down into his office like usual, 0:20:28.396 --> 0:20:33.796 and we played music together. He had this keyboard and 0:20:33.876 --> 0:20:37.716 he taught me how to play and so I started 0:20:37.716 --> 0:20:43.156 playing this song that I had learned, and he surreptitiously 0:20:43.196 --> 0:20:46.436 took out this tape recorder, which he was absolutely not 0:20:46.516 --> 0:20:49.756 allowed to have, and he was like, I really want 0:20:49.756 --> 0:20:52.596 to record you because it's maybe the last time I 0:20:52.636 --> 0:20:58.116 hear your voice. So we sang, we played music together. 0:20:59.236 --> 0:21:02.436 At a certain point, I sat down on the couch 0:21:02.436 --> 0:21:05.276 with him, and you know, he was talking to me 0:21:05.316 --> 0:21:07.676 about how I was feeling and if I was afraid. 0:21:07.756 --> 0:21:10.596 And eventually I went back to my cell, but I 0:21:10.596 --> 0:21:14.196 spent I spent many hours just in the office with him, 0:21:14.236 --> 0:21:20.796 just crying and talking. And then finally in the evening, 0:21:22.196 --> 0:21:29.676 they brought me back in and hearing him say acquitted 0:21:31.036 --> 0:21:40.516 and that she goes free, I I I broke down 0:21:40.556 --> 0:21:43.556 at that moment too, like that I had hoped and 0:21:43.596 --> 0:21:45.916 I was afraid to hope, and so suddenly this hope 0:21:46.236 --> 0:21:49.356 was alive for me again. Suddenly I was like, if 0:21:49.396 --> 0:21:51.636 I'm in this dark tunnel and I've closed my eyes 0:21:51.716 --> 0:21:53.316 to the light that is about to hit me, I 0:21:53.356 --> 0:21:58.636 was suddenly just like flooded with light, and I collapsed again, 0:21:58.756 --> 0:22:02.516 just hysterical, just crying, crying, crying, and to such a 0:22:02.556 --> 0:22:07.396 degree that the guards who were with me. They thought 0:22:07.436 --> 0:22:10.116 that I had misunderstood the verse. They thought that I 0:22:10.156 --> 0:22:12.796 had heard guilty, when in fact I had heard innocence. 0:22:12.796 --> 0:22:14.476 So they were trying to tell me, no, it's okay, 0:22:14.556 --> 0:22:17.516 you won, you won, and I was just like I know, 0:22:17.676 --> 0:22:20.676 I know. And then they brought me back to the 0:22:20.716 --> 0:22:23.516 prison to gather my things, but not in a prison van. 0:22:23.916 --> 0:22:26.276 They put me in a police car where I could 0:22:26.276 --> 0:22:31.196 actually look out the windows and like a person again. 0:22:31.316 --> 0:22:36.356 And as I got back to the prison, like everyone 0:22:36.476 --> 0:22:38.716 was looking out their windows waiting to see it, and 0:22:38.916 --> 0:22:42.796 everyone started banging pots and pans and screaming their heads off, 0:22:43.196 --> 0:22:47.956 just Liberta. And then it was a whole high speed 0:22:48.036 --> 0:22:50.996 chase out of the prison to get to Rome, to 0:22:51.036 --> 0:22:55.716 where my family was, to a secret location. It was 0:22:55.796 --> 0:22:59.876 it was very, very the most Jason Bourne scenario that 0:22:59.876 --> 0:23:06.156 I've ever been in. We'll be back in a moment. 0:23:06.236 --> 0:23:20.316 With a slight change of plans. After spending four years 0:23:20.356 --> 0:23:23.596 behind bars for a crime she didn't commit, Amanda Knox 0:23:23.716 --> 0:23:28.076 was finally exonerated and she soon headed back home to America. 0:23:28.516 --> 0:23:32.596 I was afraid to go to sleep, worried that it 0:23:32.596 --> 0:23:34.796 would mean that I would actually wake up in prison, 0:23:36.076 --> 0:23:38.076 like I had that moment where I was just trying 0:23:38.116 --> 0:23:40.036 to stay awake as long as I could because I 0:23:40.076 --> 0:23:43.116 was like, is this the dream? Am I just having 0:23:43.116 --> 0:23:47.556 the most vivid dream of my life? Or is this real? 0:23:49.276 --> 0:23:54.236 And when I first came home, I thought that I 0:23:54.316 --> 0:23:57.876 was going to get to have the life that I 0:23:57.876 --> 0:24:02.036 had left behind back I thought that, you know, I 0:24:02.076 --> 0:24:07.036 was under that same misconception that once this is all 0:24:07.076 --> 0:24:10.076 worked out and everyone agrees that I'm innocent, then I 0:24:10.236 --> 0:24:12.636 get to go back to being me. I get to 0:24:12.636 --> 0:24:15.356 go back to my life that I lost that was 0:24:15.396 --> 0:24:22.516 on pause, and I slowly realized. I realized that that 0:24:22.596 --> 0:24:25.196 life didn't exist anymore. And the reason I knew it 0:24:25.196 --> 0:24:28.196 didn't exist anymore is because I couldn't go out of 0:24:28.236 --> 0:24:33.156 my apartment building without you know, paparazzi following me to school, 0:24:33.356 --> 0:24:36.356 and I couldn't. But even beyond that, like I also 0:24:36.396 --> 0:24:40.716 couldn't meet people who hadn't heard of me before, like 0:24:41.396 --> 0:24:44.116 you know, people in my classes who were taking pictures 0:24:44.156 --> 0:24:48.356 of me and posting them to social media and saying like, 0:24:48.396 --> 0:24:50.236 oh my god, I'm in you know, look who's in 0:24:50.276 --> 0:24:54.476 my class and the murderer, you know, so I knew that. 0:24:54.596 --> 0:24:59.556 I slowly realized and came to grips with the fact 0:24:59.676 --> 0:25:03.516 that not only was the outside world not going to 0:25:03.596 --> 0:25:07.156 let me go back to my life, but also I 0:25:07.196 --> 0:25:10.876 was living now with experience variances that I couldn't just 0:25:10.996 --> 0:25:13.996 put behind me as if they never happened. Right, I 0:25:13.996 --> 0:25:16.316 had lived four years in prison, and I had been 0:25:16.476 --> 0:25:22.876 on trial for murder, and that, despite all of my 0:25:22.916 --> 0:25:27.196 best efforts, had left an impression on me. And now 0:25:27.276 --> 0:25:31.396 I was really really sensitive to certain things, like I 0:25:31.596 --> 0:25:34.876 to this day, I do not I do not farewell 0:25:35.396 --> 0:25:37.596 when someone accuses me of something that I didn't do, 0:25:37.796 --> 0:25:41.956 even if it's small, because it's just it's it's so 0:25:42.036 --> 0:25:48.556 triggering that I'm very sensitive to it and it hurts 0:25:48.596 --> 0:25:57.476 a lot. So I had to come to an understanding 0:25:57.516 --> 0:26:01.116 that the world was not the same place for me anymore. 0:26:01.556 --> 0:26:04.196 My role in it was not what I thought it 0:26:04.236 --> 0:26:06.916 could be, and I had to figure out what was 0:26:06.956 --> 0:26:10.156 the best thing that I can do and try to 0:26:10.196 --> 0:26:12.956 do it despite the fact that I also knew that 0:26:12.996 --> 0:26:16.636 there were legions of people rooting against me, hoping that 0:26:16.756 --> 0:26:22.196 I would live up to the Foxynoxi narrative that I 0:26:22.236 --> 0:26:25.036 would be just as bad as everyone thought I would be. 0:26:25.636 --> 0:26:28.036 And you are also put back on trial, right, which 0:26:28.076 --> 0:26:33.276 compounds the narrative that people want out of you. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 0:26:33.276 --> 0:26:38.236