1
00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,040
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio News.

2
00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:10,280
Speaker 2: Joining us now on Balance of Power live from the

3
00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:14,960
Speaker 2: Munich Security Conference is Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona. Senator,

4
00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,200
Speaker 2: thank you very much for your time in Munich. Last year,

5
00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:22,240
Speaker 2: Vice President JD. Vance sent a very clear message to Europe.

6
00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:24,599
Speaker 2: I would imagine the message you are bringing to those

7
00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:26,880
Speaker 2: gathered there is a bit of a different one. But

8
00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,080
Speaker 2: what can you really tell them and what assurance can

9
00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,240
Speaker 2: that provide them? When you are currently in the minority

10
00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,440
Speaker 2: power in Washington? Are you effectively just telling them hold

11
00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:39,959
Speaker 2: out three more years?

12
00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:40,480
Speaker 3: Well?

13
00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,040
Speaker 4: Kaylee, Yeah, I mean I just got here today. I've

14
00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:49,519
Speaker 4: had multiple meetings with you know, prime ministers, foreign ministers,

15
00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:51,000
Speaker 4: defense ministers.

16
00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:52,320
Speaker 3: You know, many of our allied countries.

17
00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,760
Speaker 4: What I'm hearing from them is, you know, they're they're

18
00:00:55,760 --> 00:01:00,520
Speaker 4: really concerned about some of the actions at this White

19
00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,320
Speaker 4: House has taken over the last year and some of

20
00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,240
Speaker 4: the plans that they've had. I was just meeting with,

21
00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,680
Speaker 4: you know, somebody from Denmark and the discussion, as you

22
00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,160
Speaker 4: might imagine, goes to Greenland and you know, how is

23
00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:20,760
Speaker 4: it that the United States of America made, you know,

24
00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:22,760
Speaker 4: was starting to go down the path of making a

25
00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:27,000
Speaker 4: decision to use force against one of our NATO allies.

26
00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,240
Speaker 3: This is unprecedented. So I'm here.

27
00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,399
Speaker 4: Because these are issues discussed here that I really care about.

28
00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,399
Speaker 4: I'm on the Armed Services and the Intelligence Committee, and

29
00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,480
Speaker 4: I think it's important to send the message that, you know,

30
00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,400
Speaker 4: what this President and White House might believe is not

31
00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,840
Speaker 4: what all Americans believe. And if you go just like

32
00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:54,520
Speaker 4: one level down in the government or maybe two, there

33
00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:59,160
Speaker 4: is a there's a huge difference of opinion on you know,

34
00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,880
Speaker 4: the way we should be treating our allies and that

35
00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:07,120
Speaker 4: we have common adversaries, and that if we continue to

36
00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,200
Speaker 4: as we've had since you know, the nineteen forties, continue

37
00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,680
Speaker 4: to work together, that benefits all of us.

38
00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:21,560
Speaker 1: Senator, you're arriving in Munich as the Pentagon redeploys the

39
00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,919
Speaker 1: USS jerry Ford Carrier Strike Group once again, heading back

40
00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,880
Speaker 1: toward Iran to join the USS Lincoln. From your perch

41
00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,520
Speaker 1: on the Armed Services Committee and as a naval aviator,

42
00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,280
Speaker 1: do you believe that we will strike Iran when that

43
00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:36,760
Speaker 1: carrier strike group gets there.

44
00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,080
Speaker 4: Well, I can't predict what this administration is going to do.

45
00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,040
Speaker 4: I mean, we're at a moment of time with Iran,

46
00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:50,000
Speaker 4: you know right now where they are potentially at a

47
00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:55,440
Speaker 4: tipping point, and we could see a regime, the suppressive

48
00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,360
Speaker 4: regime that has been in place since the late nineteen

49
00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:03,960
Speaker 4: seventy we could see it finally go away and the

50
00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:08,720
Speaker 4: Iranians could build a government that they deserve, and that

51
00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,920
Speaker 4: would be a huge win for the entire reason.

52
00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:13,640
Speaker 3: I mean, just think for a second.

53
00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:18,280
Speaker 4: You know what happens to the Huthis and hesbalah Hamas

54
00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,200
Speaker 4: without the support of the Iranians, the militias in Iraq.

55
00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,040
Speaker 4: So this is a moment in time we got, as

56
00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,280
Speaker 4: you say, we got the Ford battlegroup going over there.

57
00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:31,920
Speaker 4: I also think it's a really hard decision to make,

58
00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,840
Speaker 4: to be especially if we're going to use kinetic action

59
00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:41,040
Speaker 4: against the Iranian regime a second time to try to

60
00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:42,200
Speaker 4: push this in a direction.

61
00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:43,520
Speaker 3: It could backfire.

62
00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,200
Speaker 4: And my biggest concern here with this president is I

63
00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,160
Speaker 4: don't see a guy who brings the right people together

64
00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:55,160
Speaker 4: to get the right information to make informed decisions about anything.

65
00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,960
Speaker 1: Does this mean that we did not totally a blitter

66
00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,000
Speaker 1: rate Iran's nuclear program as the President told.

67
00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:11,840
Speaker 4: Us, that is correct, I mean there was significant damage

68
00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:16,120
Speaker 4: done to the Iranian nuclear program, But what the President

69
00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,560
Speaker 4: said was far from true.

70
00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:20,000
Speaker 3: We did not obliterate it.

71
00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:25,719
Speaker 4: They have the ability to rebuild it, to start enriching uranium.

72
00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:27,600
Speaker 3: And we're going to track this rather closely.

73
00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:32,720
Speaker 4: And you know, having said that, it was an incredibly

74
00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,640
Speaker 4: successful operation. When I was brief by the members of

75
00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:40,159
Speaker 4: the military who actually fly in the planes, you know,

76
00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,760
Speaker 4: the ones that led elements of that strike, they did

77
00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:47,679
Speaker 4: a remarkable job. It almost could not have gone better,

78
00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,320
Speaker 4: you know. But once those bombs, you know, hit the targets,

79
00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,800
Speaker 4: it's not up to the pilots for what happens after that.

80
00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,600
Speaker 4: And we're gonna have to see what the Iranians decide

81
00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,960
Speaker 4: to do here in reconstituting that capability. Are they going

82
00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:04,960
Speaker 4: to rush at some point to get a nuclear weapon

83
00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,760
Speaker 4: or not? Until we know the final outcome, I think

84
00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,120
Speaker 4: it's hard to say whether this was a good decision

85
00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,440
Speaker 4: or not. But I will give the US military a

86
00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:16,840
Speaker 4: tremendous amount of credit.

87
00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,159
Speaker 3: It went exceedingly well.

88
00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,400
Speaker 2: Well. Senator. The man who helps lead the US military,

89
00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,400
Speaker 2: Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, of course, has made an effort

90
00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,160
Speaker 2: to demote you and cut your retirement benefits over the

91
00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,239
Speaker 2: illegal orders video, You and five of your Democratic colleagues

92
00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,120
Speaker 2: participated in a federal judge just yesterday ruled in your favor,

93
00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,680
Speaker 2: saying that that likely violates your First Amendment rights. But

94
00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,560
Speaker 2: the Defense Secretary has said he will appeal this. He says,

95
00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:47,520
Speaker 2: to quote him, sedition is sedition?

96
00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:48,560
Speaker 3: Captain?

97
00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,240
Speaker 2: How far are you anticipating this will go? And how

98
00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,839
Speaker 2: did this become per personal enough that you believe that

99
00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,039
Speaker 2: even if courts continue to rule in your favor on

100
00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,920
Speaker 2: this specific issue, they will come after you in other ways.

101
00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,240
Speaker 4: Well, I mean I said something the President didn't like.

102
00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:07,920
Speaker 4: I said something what was lawful that's in the Uniform

103
00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,960
Speaker 4: Code of Military Justice. And Donald Trump said I should

104
00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:16,359
Speaker 4: be hanged, executed, prosecuted. And then he sicked Pete hegg Seth,

105
00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,840
Speaker 4: the Secretary of Defense, on me, to demote me, take

106
00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,039
Speaker 4: away some of my retirement pay. And sure you, the

107
00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,240
Speaker 4: grand jury didn't indict me a couple days ago.

108
00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,159
Speaker 3: But I don't put anything past these guys.

109
00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:33,560
Speaker 4: You know, the president often doubles down on bad ideas.

110
00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:35,920
Speaker 3: I mean, he has a habit of doing.

111
00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:40,279
Speaker 4: This, so I expect him to continue with this effort.

112
00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,200
Speaker 4: But here's the thing. This is much more important than me.

113
00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,240
Speaker 4: This is about the free speech rights of two million

114
00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:51,440
Speaker 4: retired service members and millions of other Americans who have

115
00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,839
Speaker 4: a right to say what they believe and speak out

116
00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,880
Speaker 4: against the government. And it might sound like a couple

117
00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,360
Speaker 4: days ago when they failed to indict me, that was

118
00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,520
Speaker 4: a good thing, But think about this for a second.

119
00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:08,880
Speaker 4: The President just tried to throw myself and another US

120
00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,120
Speaker 4: Senator and members of the House in prison.

121
00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:14,840
Speaker 3: He's trying to imprison.

122
00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:20,240
Speaker 4: Us because he doesn't like what we're saying. So this

123
00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,920
Speaker 4: is we're getting close here to what we're certainly in

124
00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,800
Speaker 4: an uncharted territory already. But I'm going to continue to

125
00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:33,800
Speaker 4: fight this because this is about the constitution. Something I

126
00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,680
Speaker 4: served in the United States Navy for for twenty five years.

127
00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:37,720
Speaker 3: I went to War four.

128
00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:42,080
Speaker 4: I fought our enemies for our country and our constitution,

129
00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:44,320
Speaker 4: and I'm not going to back down from this president

130
00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:45,120
Speaker 4: or anybody else.

131
00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:49,720
Speaker 2: Well, Senator you referenced that failed grand jury indictment. One

132
00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:51,760
Speaker 2: of your colleagues who appeared in that video alongside you,

133
00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,920
Speaker 2: Senator Lissa Slotkin, has asked the DOJ to confirm whether

134
00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,520
Speaker 2: or not the investigation into the six of you has

135
00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,960
Speaker 2: indeed concluded, have you heard from her? As to web

136
00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,360
Speaker 2: There has been a response to that. Have you yourself heard

137
00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:04,080
Speaker 2: from the DJ in that regard?

138
00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:10,480
Speaker 4: We hear very little from the DJ I think as

139
00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,960
Speaker 4: my office, the last thing we may have heard was

140
00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,760
Speaker 4: that we were not under investigation, and the next thing

141
00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,840
Speaker 4: we find out from the press is the attempted to

142
00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:23,160
Speaker 4: indict us. I mean, this is not how these processes

143
00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:27,080
Speaker 4: are supposed to work. You know, these folks seem to.

144
00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,200
Speaker 3: Not know how to do their jobs.

145
00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:35,320
Speaker 4: And the worst thing about this, though, is the message

146
00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,520
Speaker 4: it sends to the American people that if you speak

147
00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:43,199
Speaker 4: out against this government, this president, the Attorney General, US attorneys,

148
00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:43,719
Speaker 4: they're going.

149
00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:48,120
Speaker 3: To come after you. And that is just fundamentally un Americans.

150
00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,320
Speaker 1: Senator Kelly, when you get back to Washington, it looks

151
00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:54,800
Speaker 1: like the Department of Homeland Security will be closed. It's

152
00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:56,880
Speaker 1: set to shut down tonight, of course, because of the

153
00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:03,200
Speaker 1: dispute over DHS and more specifically restrictions around ICE. When

154
00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:05,280
Speaker 1: you return, we're also going to be talking about the

155
00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,400
Speaker 1: prospect of missed paychecks for folks in the TSA. We're

156
00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,000
Speaker 1: going to be looking at the Coastguard and FEMA. How

157
00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:12,760
Speaker 1: long can Democrats hold the line on this.

158
00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,240
Speaker 4: Well, what we've seen from my sover the past months

159
00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:24,000
Speaker 4: in Minneapolis and other cities is an agency that has

160
00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:28,120
Speaker 4: just run amok and is violating the constitutional rights of

161
00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,040
Speaker 4: thousands and thousands of Americans. We have two dead Americans,

162
00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,040
Speaker 4: we have people that have been beaten up. I have

163
00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,360
Speaker 4: a constituent that was just standing on the sidewalk and

164
00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,400
Speaker 4: a federal agent in a vehicle just Spraser in the

165
00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:43,679
Speaker 4: face with mace. I mean, is what is going on?

166
00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,440
Speaker 4: I mean, this agency needs to be overhauled. People need

167
00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:53,000
Speaker 4: to be fired. Why are they in uniforms that tactical

168
00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:54,680
Speaker 4: operators in Fallujah wear?

169
00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:56,800
Speaker 3: I mean, why don't they wear.

170
00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:00,840
Speaker 4: Named has they seem to not follow a a reasonable

171
00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:06,960
Speaker 4: use of force criteria? The agency needs to be fixed

172
00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:11,040
Speaker 4: in a dramatic way. And until that happens, I mean,

173
00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:15,240
Speaker 4: I am not in favor of funding them beyond what

174
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:19,000
Speaker 4: they what the President gave them, and Republicans in the

175
00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,760
Speaker 4: House and Senate gave them in his big piece of legislation,

176
00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,680
Speaker 4: which was seventy five billion dollars to be spent over

177
00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:25,280
Speaker 4: three years.

178
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:27,479
Speaker 3: You know, they have resources.

179
00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:31,160
Speaker 4: They do not need more resources that will go towards

180
00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,400
Speaker 4: violating the rights of the American people.

181
00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,960
Speaker 1: But of course, says we've established the TSA FEMA Coastguard

182
00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,040
Speaker 1: get penalized by this action as well. Senator, are there

183
00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,240
Speaker 1: talks underway in Munich about crafting a deal? Because we

184
00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,560
Speaker 1: know that negotiations have been underway in the background.

185
00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,480
Speaker 3: What are you hearing? You know, Hey, the Republicans know

186
00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:51,560
Speaker 3: what they need to do here.

187
00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:56,240
Speaker 4: You know, we sent a reasonable proposal to the White House.

188
00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:01,600
Speaker 4: They sent an unreasonable and unseerious response. Yes, you know,

189
00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,280
Speaker 4: and I think at this point many of them realize

190
00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:08,800
Speaker 4: that this situation has gotten out of control and it

191
00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,200
Speaker 4: has to be fixed. So if they would sit down

192
00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:17,680
Speaker 4: with us and seriously consider what we're asking them to

193
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:19,640
Speaker 4: do with this agency.

194
00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,800
Speaker 3: I think we could rather quickly get to a deal.

195
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,640
Speaker 1: Senator Mark Kelly joining us live from the Munich Security Conference. Senator,

196
00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:29,720
Speaker 1: thank you for being here on Bloomberg, and thank you

197
00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:30,400
Speaker 1: for your service.