WEBVTT - Instant Reaction: Hunter Biden Found Guilty

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<v Speaker 1>This is breaking new use from Bemberg.

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<v Speaker 2>Hunter Biden has been convicted of gun charges by a

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<v Speaker 2>jury in the Delaware trial. The jury took three hours

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<v Speaker 2>to reach the verdict against the President's son, Junius. Now

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<v Speaker 2>is June Grasso, Bloomberg's legal analyst, June, what do you

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<v Speaker 2>make of this ruling today?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I'm surprised he came in so fast, But there

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<v Speaker 1>was a lot of evidence that the prosecution presented that

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<v Speaker 1>Hunter Biden was addicted to drugs around the time at

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<v Speaker 1>least that he filled out that form. The only hope

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<v Speaker 1>I think that the defense had was jury nullification, the

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<v Speaker 1>jury saying that, you know, there are a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>jurors about four I think it is, who have family

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<v Speaker 1>members who are addicted, and they heard for a week

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<v Speaker 1>about Hunter Biden's you know, descent into addiction and how

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<v Speaker 1>it took him and members of some of the members

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<v Speaker 1>of his family down. So, if those jurors had felt

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<v Speaker 1>some sympathy for Hunter Biden and decided that they didn't

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<v Speaker 1>want to follow the strict instructions, the defense had given

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<v Speaker 1>them some outs to say that he didn't knowingly check

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<v Speaker 1>the box that said I'm not a drug addict. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not addicted to drugs. I'm not using drugs. And there

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<v Speaker 1>were some technical arguments they could have, you know, clung to,

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<v Speaker 1>but the prosecution just presented a mountain of evidence, including

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<v Speaker 1>hunter Biden's own words in his memoir, including testimony from

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<v Speaker 1>his ex wife and ex lovers. And it turned out

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<v Speaker 1>that the daughter's testimony, which the defense presented, sort of

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<v Speaker 1>backfired on them because on cross examination they presented her

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<v Speaker 1>with some text messages that showed that around the time

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<v Speaker 1>that the gun was purchased, Hunter Biden was not available.

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<v Speaker 1>He wanted to get his car at two am. It

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<v Speaker 1>was very suspicious sounding, sort of sounding like what a

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<v Speaker 1>drug addict would do. So I think, you know, the

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<v Speaker 1>prosecution had a mountain of evidence. What are next steps here?

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<v Speaker 1>I guess sentencing, sentencing, There'll be a probation report, sentencing.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's it's anyone's guess with the sentencing, because

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think, you know, he could get I believe

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<v Speaker 1>it's twenty five years, but I don't, you know, think

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<v Speaker 1>the judge would give him that. I mean, this is

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<v Speaker 1>a crime where no one was injured at all. There's

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<v Speaker 1>no victim in this crime. He's the only victim really

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<v Speaker 1>of his drug addiction, and then there'll be a pellet issues.

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<v Speaker 1>Then there are some very strong appellate issues because the

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<v Speaker 1>Fifth Circuit, which is a conservative circuit, since the Supreme

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<v Speaker 1>Court's landmark decision in the New York gun case, has

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<v Speaker 1>said that this law is unconstitutional. The law that makes

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<v Speaker 1>it that doesn't allow someone who is a felon or

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<v Speaker 1>you know, addicted to drugs to have a weapon. So

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<v Speaker 1>there's that.

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<v Speaker 3>Do we know what the timetable is for sentencing?

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<v Speaker 1>No, the judge will announce the sentencing timetable. It depends.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know about Delaware, I mean New York. It's

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<v Speaker 1>usually within a month or so.

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<v Speaker 3>But do we know when the judge would announce that

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<v Speaker 3>or is that to be determined at this point?

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<v Speaker 1>The judge usually when he takes the or she this

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<v Speaker 1>case takes the jury vertic will announce the sentencing date.

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<v Speaker 1>But again, you know, I'm not sure what's going to

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<v Speaker 1>happen in this case. Why was this case braud who

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<v Speaker 1>brought this case? Well, that is a big question.

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<v Speaker 2>Or two.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, this is a this is a special council,

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<v Speaker 1>And what happened was he was investigating this for quite

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<v Speaker 1>some time they had reached a deal. Hunter Biden and

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<v Speaker 1>the Special UH Counsel's office weiss they'd reached a deal

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<v Speaker 1>in which he wouldn't serve any jail time and he

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<v Speaker 1>would also settle the California tax case. When it came

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<v Speaker 1>to this judge, they went to court. They expected the

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<v Speaker 1>deal to you know, be announced and informalized, and the

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<v Speaker 1>judge found some problems with the way the deal was structured,

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<v Speaker 1>and it just blew up there in the courtroom. The

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<v Speaker 1>judge said that, you know, there's something wrong, and then

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<v Speaker 1>the defense said, well, we're not going to plead guilty

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<v Speaker 1>if this, that, and the other. It just blew up,

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<v Speaker 1>and so at that point they decided to go to trial.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's all about a special counsel who has been

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<v Speaker 1>appointed to oversee the Hunter Biden cases. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>we've seen that special counsel often feel that if they

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<v Speaker 1>don't bring cases, if they don't win cases, then what

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<v Speaker 1>are they there for.

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<v Speaker 3>Do you expect that the Biden administration would make any

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<v Speaker 3>sort of comment on this.

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<v Speaker 1>The President has already said that he will not He

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<v Speaker 1>could pardon his son, but he has said that he

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<v Speaker 1>will not pardon his son. That he'll accept the jury's verdict.

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<v Speaker 1>So I don't know if you're gonna hear anything more

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<v Speaker 1>than that. The first lady has been at the trial

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<v Speaker 1>almost every day. She flew to France to be with

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<v Speaker 1>her husband and then she came back, and so they've

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<v Speaker 1>had an incredibly large family gatherings there and apparently, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>crowding the courtroom to the point where the Secret Service

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<v Speaker 1>didn't know where to sit. So and they've had prayers,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, sort of prayer gather rings in the mornings.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, Joe, to stay right there. For political reaction,

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<v Speaker 2>we can bring in Jeannie Shane Zeno, Bloomer Politics contributor

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<v Speaker 2>and senior democracy fellow with the Center for the Study

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<v Speaker 2>of the Presidency and Congress. Jennie, thanks so much for

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<v Speaker 2>joining us here. What's the political repercussions here for President Biden.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, you know, the easy answer is, we really don't know,

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<v Speaker 4>because this is the first time we have had a

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<v Speaker 4>president's child who, while they are sitting as president, has

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<v Speaker 4>faced criminal charges and of course now been found guilty.

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<v Speaker 1>So that is one thing. But we have seen some

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<v Speaker 1>polling on this.

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<v Speaker 4>For instance, Emerson did a poll and they found similar

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<v Speaker 4>to the reaction to Trump's conviction that about six or

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<v Speaker 4>seven out of ten American voters said it wouldn't impact

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<v Speaker 4>their vote whatsoever. But that left about a quarter of

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<v Speaker 4>Americans saying it might impact them. And in this case,

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<v Speaker 4>about eleven percent of those were Democrats. And in an

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<v Speaker 4>election this tight, if you see drop off of eleven percent,

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<v Speaker 4>potentially that can have an impact. So there is an

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<v Speaker 4>electoral impact that we're going to see how that sort

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<v Speaker 4>of comes out in the wash by the time we

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<v Speaker 4>get to November. The other part of this, though, is,

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<v Speaker 4>as June knows, Hunter Biden is facing other charges this fall,

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<v Speaker 4>potentially before the election in California that could have an impact.

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<v Speaker 4>And of course there's a very personal impact on the

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<v Speaker 4>President and the first Lady. I think we undercount how

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<v Speaker 4>much of a toll this takes on a father or

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<v Speaker 4>a mother, a parent in this case, and how that

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<v Speaker 4>can impact a candidate running for office on top of

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<v Speaker 4>trying to serve as president of the United States. So

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<v Speaker 4>all of those are real repercussions.

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<v Speaker 3>Here all right.

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<v Speaker 2>Also on right now, I want to bring in Joe Matthew,

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<v Speaker 2>co host a Balance of Power from Washington, DC. Joe,

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<v Speaker 2>what's the feeling within DC about this hold, the legal

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<v Speaker 2>issues facing the president's son here and how they're being pursued.

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<v Speaker 2>What's the feeling in Washington.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, it depends who you ask, just like anything else.

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<v Speaker 5>If you talk to the Chairman of the Judiciary Committee,

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<v Speaker 5>Jim Jordan, the chair of the Oversight Committee, James Comer,

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<v Speaker 5>they will tell you this is part of the narrative

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<v Speaker 5>that brings you to understand the what they like to

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<v Speaker 5>refer to as the Biden crime family. But every hearing

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<v Speaker 5>that's been held and every attempt to get the president

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<v Speaker 5>involved here has so far fallen flat by this Republican conference,

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<v Speaker 5>And so you know, people are kind of watching this

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<v Speaker 5>from the sidelines. If you ask Democrats, they're outraged, and

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<v Speaker 5>they'll say Donald Trump complains about the weaponization of government

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<v Speaker 5>and the judicial system, and this is it on full display.

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<v Speaker 5>How many people have been tried and convicted on these

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<v Speaker 5>crimes before. But look, you know, it's just another brick

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<v Speaker 5>in the wall. To be honest with you here, it

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<v Speaker 5>kind of depends on what you are looking at, who

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<v Speaker 5>you support, and what the roar shack test is here.

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<v Speaker 5>If you were already upset with Joe Biden, then this

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<v Speaker 5>helps your argument. And if you see a double standard

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<v Speaker 5>with Donald Trump, that's another question here. We have to

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<v Speaker 5>remind ourselves that Hunter Biden is not running for president.

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<v Speaker 3>I want to bring June Grasso back into this conversation.

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<v Speaker 3>What other potential legal issues might Hunter be facing if

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<v Speaker 3>at all.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, he's facing a trial in California over his taxes

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<v Speaker 1>and what he filed on his taxes. That's considered a

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<v Speaker 1>much more substantial case than this one was, because that's

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<v Speaker 1>a case that has been brought before this case over

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<v Speaker 1>the gun charges. It's very rare. No one I've talked

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<v Speaker 1>to knows anyone who's been tried or has represented anyone

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<v Speaker 1>who's been tried on charges like this where you were

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<v Speaker 1>a drug addict, I would say allegedly, But now I

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<v Speaker 1>guess the jury confirmed that you were a drug addict.

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<v Speaker 1>You lied on the form and bought a gun, but

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<v Speaker 1>there was no crime associated with that gun. The gun

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<v Speaker 1>stayed locked away. So it's unusual to bring a federal

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<v Speaker 1>case over something like that. Normally that would be something

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<v Speaker 1>to be pleted out and which, as I explained before,

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<v Speaker 1>what they tried to plead it out here. So and

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<v Speaker 1>he's facing you know, it's three felonies here, so and

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<v Speaker 1>they're all related to this one transaction checking this box.

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<v Speaker 1>It's very unusual to have even people, even some Republicans,

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<v Speaker 1>have come out and said that this is a really

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<v Speaker 1>unusual case.

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<v Speaker 2>Jennie, how do you think the Biden administration and the

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<v Speaker 2>Biden campaign will in fact address this issue going forward

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<v Speaker 2>during the campaign.

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<v Speaker 4>I think they will continue to say that this is

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<v Speaker 4>a very personal and tough issue for the president. He

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<v Speaker 4>loves his son, but he has let the Justice Department

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<v Speaker 4>do its work, obviously unimpeded by the president. And this

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<v Speaker 4>is further proof of the fact that when Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 4>says there is a political persecution of him, that is

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<v Speaker 4>not the case. Because here you have the president's owned

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<v Speaker 4>DOJ prosecuting his son, and now that jury finding him guilty,

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<v Speaker 4>facing potent twenty five years in jail. All of that's

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<v Speaker 4>unlikely obviously, So I think they're going to just make

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<v Speaker 4>that case, and the President has promised not to do

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<v Speaker 4>what he could do, which is pardon his son, although

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<v Speaker 4>I believe that that will be increasingly tough for the

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<v Speaker 4>President as he faces sort of a choice nobody wants

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<v Speaker 4>between their role as a parent and their job as

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<v Speaker 4>leader of the free world. This is very, very tough

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<v Speaker 4>for him.

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<v Speaker 3>Joe Matthew, Let's bring you back into this conversation because

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<v Speaker 3>when you have an instance here with what's happening with

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<v Speaker 3>President Joe Biden's son Hunter Biden here facing this and

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<v Speaker 3>then Juxta positioned that against what Trump when he was

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<v Speaker 3>just found guilty on all thirty four counts of falcifying

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<v Speaker 3>those business records, At what point, Because you've covered so

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<v Speaker 3>many different election cycles, have you seen a dynamic something

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<v Speaker 3>like this when you have two different nominees facing different

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<v Speaker 3>issues such as the ease that would be never right.

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<v Speaker 5>I figured we are repeatedly and uncharted waters here, and

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<v Speaker 5>I would look back to what June was pointing to.

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<v Speaker 1>There's going to be another trial.

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<v Speaker 5>This is going to be something that involves a subject

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<v Speaker 5>matter when it comes to taxes that will resonate with people.

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<v Speaker 5>He's accused of not paying a million dollars in taxes.

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<v Speaker 5>It's going to bring back to the Barismas story, the

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<v Speaker 5>so called, like I said, Biden crime family that Marjorie

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<v Speaker 5>Taylor Green and others who tried to impeach the president

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<v Speaker 5>like to talk about. And it's going to happen much

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<v Speaker 5>closer to the election day itself. This is going to

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<v Speaker 5>be something that likely takes place in the fall. June

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<v Speaker 5>can probably speak to any efforts to delay that trial,

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<v Speaker 5>But look, people have short memories. Are they going to

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<v Speaker 5>be talking about this when we're in the middle of that?

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<v Speaker 5>So I would point you to the fall, and I

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<v Speaker 5>would also remind you that we don't have a sentencing

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<v Speaker 5>date yet, and it's going to be interesting to see

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<v Speaker 5>the way that lands. Whether this is incarceratory or if

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<v Speaker 5>he faces a fine. That's still a question of course

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<v Speaker 5>for Donald Trump as well.

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<v Speaker 2>So June, I mean, I know we're kind of an

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<v Speaker 2>uncharted territory here as it relates to this type of

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<v Speaker 2>crime followed through to conviction. Are sentencing guidelines any useful

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<v Speaker 2>to observers or how do we think about a potential

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<v Speaker 2>sentence here?

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<v Speaker 4>Well?

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<v Speaker 1>As Genie said, twenty five years is a possible sentence,

0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:14.120
<v Speaker 1>but I can't imagine that the judge would sentenced him

0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:16.360
<v Speaker 1>to that. There's going to be a pre sentence report.

0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:19.959
<v Speaker 1>Of course. The pre sentence report will show that he's

0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:23.800
<v Speaker 1>still facing another trial, and that part of the pre

0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:26.559
<v Speaker 1>sentence report is whether you're addicted to drugs or you

0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:29.760
<v Speaker 1>have any physical limitations. So it's hard for me to

0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:34.240
<v Speaker 1>say to guess what the what the judge will do here.

0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:36.360
<v Speaker 1>I mean, she knows all the facts in the case.

0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.480
<v Speaker 1>She knows that there was a deal that collapsed, and

0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:42.199
<v Speaker 1>so you know, it's just hard to just say, I

0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:42.600
<v Speaker 1>don't know.

0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:45.559
<v Speaker 3>What this judge will do Genie when it comes to

0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:48.800
<v Speaker 3>because you had mentioned pulling before, obviously there's been a

0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:52.400
<v Speaker 3>number of election cycles in the last decade where the

0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:55.240
<v Speaker 3>pulling has been quite off and also tends to be

0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.120
<v Speaker 3>delayed in some ways. How does this potentially complicate some

0:12:58.200 --> 0:12:59.080
<v Speaker 3>things in your mind.

0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:03.040
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's a great question, because this is very complicated.

0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:06.480
<v Speaker 4>You're asking people what they may do in November if

0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.960
<v Speaker 4>a hypothetical child of a president gets convicted, which has

0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:12.720
<v Speaker 4>now happened in the last few minutes. So it's it's

0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:16.160
<v Speaker 4>hard to know if people will, to Joe's point, remember

0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:19.440
<v Speaker 4>all of this come November, and it will truly impact

0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.560
<v Speaker 4>what they do in the polls. Certainly the Biden team

0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.120
<v Speaker 4>is hoping it does not, but the fact that he

0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:27.760
<v Speaker 4>is coming up with his other trial, which is obviously

0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:32.000
<v Speaker 4>much more damaging if it goes forward in California would

0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:35.400
<v Speaker 4>potentially make the numbers we're seeing worse. But what we've

0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:38.880
<v Speaker 4>seen so far is Emerson saying about eleven percent of

0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:42.800
<v Speaker 4>Democrats say they will not vote for Joe Biden as

0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:44.839
<v Speaker 4>a result of this. So I don't know if we

0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:47.319
<v Speaker 4>could take that to the polls as they will, but

0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.959
<v Speaker 4>you know, that's what the numbers are saying. And you know,

0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:54.599
<v Speaker 4>one interesting thing to note is that Donald Trump, he

0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:58.840
<v Speaker 4>has not been talking about this as a you might expect,

0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:01.199
<v Speaker 4>like as he would make maybe the Barisma case or

0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:04.559
<v Speaker 4>the tax case. He's been talking about it sort of empathetically,

0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.560
<v Speaker 4>talking about his brother who was an alcoholic and died.

0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:10.520
<v Speaker 4>I suspect when we get to the next trial, the

0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:13.400
<v Speaker 4>rhetoric from Trump and the right will be much more

0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:17.360
<v Speaker 4>difficult and tough on Joe Biden and much more reminiscent

0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:20.280
<v Speaker 4>of what they were saying and using Hunter Biden as

0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:23.440
<v Speaker 4>a lightning rod, but on this because it involves addiction,

0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:24.800
<v Speaker 4>they haven't been quite.

0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:26.080
<v Speaker 1>As tough Joe.

0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:30.480
<v Speaker 2>Is this the new normal in Washington, DC? Where past

0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:35.000
<v Speaker 2>presidents relatives of current presidents are being sued and taken

0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:35.440
<v Speaker 2>a court?

0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:37.480
<v Speaker 3>And is this the new normal?

0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:38.960
<v Speaker 1>It feels like it.

0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:41.240
<v Speaker 5>I thought impeachment was the new normal, but I guess

0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:43.600
<v Speaker 5>we're just doing this in criminal court now. I think

0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:45.200
<v Speaker 5>you just have to think about it, though, and say, like,

0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.360
<v Speaker 5>which battle are we talking about? We keep focusing on

0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:49.320
<v Speaker 5>November here for good reason. We're in the throes of

0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:52.240
<v Speaker 5>an historic election cycle. But let's talk about the way

0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:55.920
<v Speaker 5>the campaigns might hear who won the day. Donald Trump

0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:58.800
<v Speaker 5>probably did, because otherwise we'd be talking about his first

0:14:59.040 --> 0:14:59.760
<v Speaker 5>meeting ever with a.

0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:03.520
<v Speaker 1>Pro bation officer yesterday. He had to sit for that virtual.

0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.720
<v Speaker 5>Interview for half an hour, and it will not really

0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:09.240
<v Speaker 5>be talked about now because of Joe Biden's son. But

0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:11.160
<v Speaker 5>when you talk about who's going to win the month

0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:13.640
<v Speaker 5>or the season, we have to factor in a lot

0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:17.080
<v Speaker 5>of other things here, including Donald Trump's own sentencing, the

0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:19.960
<v Speaker 5>debate that's coming up just a couple of weeks away,

0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:21.800
<v Speaker 5>never mind the conventions that are going to follow it.

0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:23.840
<v Speaker 5>So we do want to take it one step at

0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.240
<v Speaker 5>a time here, and you could probably say pretty easily

0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:28.280
<v Speaker 5>that this is a win for Trump. Be curious to

0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:30.320
<v Speaker 5>see what he says. To Genie's point, He's been a

0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:32.880
<v Speaker 5>little bit careful with this one because of the personal

0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:34.560
<v Speaker 5>nature of this trial and that will look a lot

0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:35.600
<v Speaker 5>different in the next one.

0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:38.520
<v Speaker 1>This is breaking you whose from Lumberg