1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Masters in 2 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: Business with Barry Ritholts on Bloomberg Radio. 3 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 2: This week on the podcast, I have an extra special guest. 4 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 2: Stephanie Dresher is Chief Client and Product development Officer at 5 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 2: private investment giant Apollo. She's been there for over twenty years. 6 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 2: She spent a decade before that doing alternatives at JP Morgan. 7 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 2: What a fascinating person. Apollo runs eight hundred and forty 8 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:43,519 Speaker 2: billion dollars in client assets, and she has really not 9 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 2: over overseen the wealth division, but also worked on a 10 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 2: variety of geographies, new products. She's on everybody's Best off list, 11 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 2: She's been on the Baron's Women and Financial List, sits 12 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 2: inception every year. I thought this conversation was fascinating. If 13 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 2: you're remotely interested in private equity, private debt, private credit, 14 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 2: private infrastructure, you'll find this conversation absolutely fascinating. With no 15 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 2: further ado Apollos, Stephanie Drescher, Stephanie Dresher, Welcome to Bloomberg. 16 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 3: Thank you, Mary, happy to be here, Happy to have you. 17 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 2: So we're going to get into Apollo when your investment 18 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 2: philosophy in a bit, but before we do. I just 19 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 2: have to start with your background. Bachelors in Barnard at 20 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 2: Columbia MBA from Columbia Business School. What was the original 21 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 2: career plan? 22 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 3: I did always have finance in my sites, so undergrad 23 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 3: it was econ and psych. I joke that I use 24 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 3: the psych in my day to day field way more 25 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 3: than the econ RaSE days. But there was always a 26 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 3: draw towards doing something in the financial kind of arena, 27 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 3: interest in markets and the like. So very early internships 28 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 3: led me down that path. 29 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 2: And I read somewhere in your background that you were 30 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 2: particularly inspired to go into finance by your grandmother. Tell 31 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 2: us about that. 32 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 3: That is true. So my father's mother live with us 33 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 3: for a time, and I believe or not, she was 34 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 3: born in the very very late eighteen hundreds, and while 35 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 3: her brother went on to become a doctor, she kept 36 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 3: out it an eighth grade education, and so the power 37 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 3: of education was always a core value and a focus 38 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 3: of hers and my family. And she used to read 39 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 3: the Wall Street Journal cover to cover every day, super smart, 40 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 3: loved tracking stocks, and so we started to track stocks together. 41 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 3: And how old were you at this time? Oh, I 42 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 3: don't know, maybe twelve, Okay, and in a very high 43 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 3: time way. We would put it up on the refrigerator 44 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 3: and kind of see the changes and the holdings that 45 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 3: she had in her portfolio and sometimes overlapped with that 46 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 3: of my parents. That was the early. 47 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 2: Start, so you get an MBA from Columbia. JP Morgan 48 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 2: was the first job right out of school. 49 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 3: It was although there was a mentor right prior to 50 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 3: the JP Morgan opportunity that, believe it or not, I 51 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 3: started babysitting for this family and I didn't know what 52 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 3: the mother did day to day until after a period 53 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 3: of time of babysitting. She looked at me and she said, 54 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,119 Speaker 3: I think your babysitting days are over. And I said, 55 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 3: I don't know what you're trying about. And she said, 56 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 3: I run a women led healthcare consulting firm. Would you 57 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 3: like an internship? And I practically fell off my chair 58 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:57,839 Speaker 3: and I said, I would love an internship. 59 00:03:58,240 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 2: How old are you at this time? 60 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 3: It was like late high school, maybe early college, early 61 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 3: early and it was the most amazing kind of opportunity 62 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 3: that someone could give me, right just seeing a professional 63 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 3: organization do its thing and all the analysis and client 64 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 3: relationship management that went into that so while I decided 65 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 3: that healthcare wasn't my thing and consulting wasn't my thing, 66 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 3: it was very an easy bridge to JP Morgan and 67 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 3: the finance field. 68 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 2: So when you started JP Morgan, what was the role, 69 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 2: how did you what areas were you toiling in? 70 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 3: So I started with a rotational opportunity, which was terrific. 71 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 3: I had everything from fixed income research to private banking 72 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 3: in Geneva. 73 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 2: Did you go to Switzerland? 74 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 3: I did? Yeah. For about six months, I realized that 75 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 3: I needed to buy all of my groceries during the 76 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 3: day because it was closed by the time I got 77 00:04:56,040 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 3: out of work, and then I liked to travel on weekends. Importantly, though, 78 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 3: and seriously, it was a terrific time in my life 79 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 3: to be more aware of time zones and cultural nuances 80 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 3: and really see kind of a client perspective outside of 81 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:17,119 Speaker 3: New York and the US. 82 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 2: It's a big world. 83 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 3: Totally, yet it also can feel so small once you 84 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 3: start to travel and live elsewhere. So that was a 85 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 3: terrific opportunity. And then ultimately out of that rotational program, 86 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 3: ended up in alternatives within the private bank, and then 87 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 3: we were off to the races. 88 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 2: So alternatum's way back then, but before we leave Switzerland, 89 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 2: I recall a vacation not too long ago to Lake 90 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 2: Geneva and what's amazing, And we were in this hotel 91 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 2: that used to be a castle, and like, you think 92 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,799 Speaker 2: you have some understanding of the Gilded Age and old 93 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 2: money and then you see no, no, we mean five 94 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 2: hundred years. Yeah, it's just such a different io, so 95 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 2: different than here. Yeah, really really amazing. So you're in 96 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 2: the Alts group at JP Morgan. You stay at JP 97 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 2: Morgan for a decade, tell us a little bit about 98 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 2: the work you did there. 99 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 3: So it was very early days of speaking to families 100 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 3: around the world, the ultra high network. Clients of JP 101 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 3: Morgan thought the role of alternatives in their portfolio, and 102 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 3: I remember distinctly speaking about the core and satellite within 103 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 3: alternatives now kind of private markets as our nomenclature. But 104 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 3: it gave me such a great perspective in terms of 105 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 3: the educational kind of foundation that we needed to set 106 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 3: first with those clients. And I see it now continuing 107 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 3: to play out. But my time at JP Morgan, and 108 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 3: it was a very fast ten ten years and an 109 00:06:53,080 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 3: amazing kind of training ground, was kind of assessment of 110 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 3: all the different private market strategies from private equity to 111 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 3: hedge funds to credit, and the seat was a combination 112 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 3: of the buyside, so kind of due diligence on the 113 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 3: managers we were going to put on platform and then 114 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 3: the cell side in terms of the educational component to 115 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 3: the end banker and client. Super Fun traveled around the 116 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 3: world speaking about how alts could factor in to return 117 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 3: profiles and diversifications, smoother volatility, all at a time when 118 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 3: private equity was not on the front page. Yeah, every day. 119 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 3: It was very early. 120 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 2: Let's contextualize a little bit. This is the mid to 121 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 2: late nineties and early two thousands. The stock market was 122 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 2: just screaming high or double digits, especially the last four 123 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 2: years of the nineties. What was it like then? How 124 00:07:55,480 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 2: receptive was the audience to you should consider the private markets? 125 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 2: How how much smaller was the whole space back then? 126 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was very early days and a very small fraction. 127 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 3: I remember, you know, if we if we launched kind 128 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,239 Speaker 3: of one manager a quarter, it was a big deal. 129 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 3: Now I feel like there are probably dozens kind of 130 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 3: on the shelf available for for clients every every day, 131 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 3: every quarter. The but the transformation was starting to take 132 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 3: hold where there were especially the large families, recognizing the 133 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 3: return potential that a manager in alternatives could provide in 134 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,959 Speaker 3: their portfolio, and they didn't want to rely. It was 135 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 3: very early, but they saw that they didn't want to 136 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:57,719 Speaker 3: rely exclusively on public market exposure. So you know, when 137 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 3: we look at actually the percentage is in kind of 138 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 3: large family office clients today it matches or frankly exceeds 139 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 3: that of an institution, but it's still they started at 140 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 3: the ultra high net worth end so much earlier, kind 141 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 3: of back in those days than most in wealth. So 142 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 3: I think there were the likes of a JPMorgan client 143 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 3: base and a select number of other private banks did 144 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 3: start early in showcasing these opportunities, and the adoption as 145 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 3: I traveled around the world was strong, but it was 146 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 3: still kind of storytelling and a lot of niche opportunities. 147 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 3: Where I feel like we fast forward to today, people 148 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 3: recognize that private market solutions can play both the core 149 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 3: and satellite in their portfolios. It relates to a compliment 150 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 3: to the public market exposure. 151 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 2: So you join Apollo in two thousand and four, I'm 152 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 2: kind of curious a few years earlier we have the 153 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,199 Speaker 2: dot com implosion. A few years later, we have the 154 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 2: Great Financial Crisis. I hate when people call these, you know, 155 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 2: once a century events because it seemed to happen a 156 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 2: lot more frequently than that. But how significant were those 157 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 2: giant public events to telling the story of, hey, here's 158 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,439 Speaker 2: some private market investments that you don't have the same 159 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:32,199 Speaker 2: sort of volatility and regular you know explosions. 160 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, you're you're right. They were such an incredibly 161 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 3: important backdrop to why alternatives, why private markets? And in fact, 162 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 3: when I was still in my seat at JP Morgan, 163 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 3: but Apollo was offering then our private equity flagship fund five, 164 00:10:53,559 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 3: the dot com boom was just at its tail and 165 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 3: was starting to fracture. You saw the signs, and Apollo 166 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 3: came onto the platform and was talking a value story, 167 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:15,680 Speaker 3: and for the first several weeks there wasn't as much 168 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 3: take up, and then as the market started to change dramatically, 169 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 3: there was this wake up call of whoa, you know what, 170 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 3: let's look at value again, And that kind of was 171 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 3: the tell end of the of the story for that fundraise. 172 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 3: Back around the two thousand period, fast forward to the 173 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 3: Great Financial Crisis, it was such an incredible time at 174 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 3: that point, I was already in my apollo seat to 175 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 3: see the investment committee dynamic, and you know, there were 176 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 3: moments that, thankfully because we were so steeped on the 177 00:11:55,520 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 3: credit side in addition to obviously our view of private equity, 178 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:05,439 Speaker 3: where we could back up the truck on certain credits 179 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 3: with conviction. And I look back now with honestly such 180 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 3: pride for the decisions that were made in that period 181 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 3: of time, and frankly many subsequently during moments of dislocation 182 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:25,439 Speaker 3: where they make it look so easy on the investment side, 183 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 3: but it actually takes so much work and rigor to 184 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 3: be in position to make those big investment calls in 185 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 3: those moments in time. But it served us incredibly well 186 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 3: and continues to even Liberation Day. Right post when the 187 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 3: market started to move materially, there wasn't that much time 188 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 3: within forty eight hours were there was kind of a 189 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:59,559 Speaker 3: correction from the volatility that we saw on household issuers 190 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 3: and names. But thankfully, based on our scale and knowledge 191 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:08,199 Speaker 3: of those capital structures, we were able to put about 192 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 3: twenty five billion of dollars to work in just a 193 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 3: few days, and we're one of the biggest market participants 194 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 3: during that moment of dislocation. 195 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 2: You know, you mentioned high conviction investments. I recall in 196 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 2: the mid to late two thousands, people tossed around the 197 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 2: phrase toxic assets, and my attitude was always, there's no 198 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 2: such thing as toxic assets. There are only toxic prices. 199 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 2: Everything discounted enough eventually becomes attractive. 200 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 3: Look, we are one of our kind of taglines that 201 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,079 Speaker 3: you'll hear internally and externally is purchase price matters. 202 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent. What you pay for something is 203 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 2: going to have a giant impact on what the subsequent returns. 204 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,079 Speaker 3: I'm going to be totally and you know that that does. 205 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 3: It does require discipline, especially when multiples are going to 206 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 3: kind of stratospheric levels. But you know it has that 207 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 3: strategy has borne out in a very kind of productive 208 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 3: and successful way for us maintaining that discipline. But as 209 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 3: you're saying, like spotting those moments where investments are mispriced 210 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 3: or not well understood, and being willing to deal with 211 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 3: that complexity at the right place, at the right price 212 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 3: in order to generate the outcome we want. 213 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 2: Really really interesting coming up, we continue our conversation with 214 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 2: Stephanie Dresher, Apollo's chief client and Product development officer, discussing 215 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 2: her career at Apollo. I'm very ritults. You're listening to 216 00:14:46,040 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 2: Master's in Business on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Barry Ridolts. You're 217 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 2: listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My extra 218 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 2: special guest this week is Stephanie Dresher. She is Apollo's 219 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 2: Chief Client and Product Development Officer. Apollo runs about eight 220 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 2: hundred and forty billion dollars in client assets, So I 221 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 2: love this title, but I got to think people are wondering, 222 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 2: what's a day in the life of Apollo's chief Client 223 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 2: and Product development officer? Like it sounds like that's a 224 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 2: really wide bit of land. 225 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 3: It's it's a fun job. So I've been at Apollo 226 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 3: now twenty one years, and when I first started, I 227 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 3: built out the institutional side of the business globally, so 228 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 3: sovereign well funds think the dB public pension plans, and 229 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 3: that was very much our core client base with an 230 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 3: episodic offering through a private bank or a wire from 231 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 3: time to time. As that market evolved and matured into 232 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 3: a very robust global business there, it was clear to 233 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 3: Mark Rowan now CEO and I that at some point 234 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 3: complementing that institutional business with a wealth strategy was in 235 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 3: our future. We wanted to make sure, though, that we 236 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 3: chose the right moment to really lean in to wealth 237 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 3: because it does take a massive commitment, and I'm sure 238 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 3: we'll talk more about it. So in my role, I 239 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 3: am fortunate enough to build out our business as it 240 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 3: relates to our client set of offerings, our product development, 241 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 3: as well as our partnerships with our distributors, with our investors, 242 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 3: and just making sure that as we continue to innovate, 243 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:04,199 Speaker 3: wet our clients where they are and often kind of 244 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,120 Speaker 3: co author the types of offerings that are most meaningful 245 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 3: to them. So in any given day, I get to 246 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 3: think about our set of products and what we're innovating. 247 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 3: I get to speak with our clients and partners existing 248 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 3: and prospects. I manage a large group of people and 249 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 3: our talent, and I lean in with a very keen 250 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 3: focus on culture, which means a lot to me. 251 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 2: So that's really interesting. How would you describe Apollo's culture 252 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 2: and what do you do to help shape that? 253 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 3: So, look, since the day I join, there have been 254 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 3: certain common themes to our culture which I think have 255 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 3: always kind of propelled us forward as a firm now public, 256 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 3: but very much feels like a partnership. And the first 257 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 3: one is making sure that we continue to innovate, to 258 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 3: feel very entrepreneurial, and to empower our people to kind 259 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 3: of find those opportunities and pursue them in an appropriate way. 260 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 3: We manage the firm as a meritocracy, so we want 261 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 3: to give people responsibility and let them kind of really 262 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 3: kind of have the greatest impact that they can for 263 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,400 Speaker 3: their own professional careers as well as for the firm. 264 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 3: And we want to have a winning high performance culture, 265 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 3: meaning you know, even with all the success that we've had, 266 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 3: we want to maintain that, propel it forward and continue 267 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 3: that high level of performance. And importantly, we do it together, 268 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 3: so it's not about any one person. I often say 269 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 3: to my team, you know, it's we, not me, And 270 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 3: that's really powerful. So when we bring everything that Apollo 271 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 3: has to offer, we call it kind of the one 272 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 3: Apollo to any client situation or any goal. We can 273 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 3: use that power of the firm to be successful and 274 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:09,719 Speaker 3: to allow us all to win. 275 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 2: Really really interesting, you know. So the biggest complaint I 276 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 2: heard from various corporate executives during the pandemic was how 277 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 2: do we maintain the corporate culture We've spent so much 278 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 2: time and energy trying to build over the years. Suddenly 279 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 2: everybody's at home on a zoom call in their pajamas. 280 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 2: How do you maintain corporate culture like that? 281 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,959 Speaker 3: It is it's so important, frankly, whether we're all in 282 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 3: the office to maintain that culture or certainly the challenges 283 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 3: during during the pandemic making sure certainly during that during 284 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 3: kind of that COVID period of creating forums, even if 285 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 3: it was remote, to maintain the connectivity was really important 286 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 3: to have different I remember many different kind of lunchtime 287 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 3: meetings that we would have on Zoom, or our family 288 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 3: community group would have different webinars where it was the 289 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 3: employee as parent and then their children frankly were involved 290 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 3: as well. So I think it's kind of forced fostering 291 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 3: that sense of community, even if it is in fact remote. 292 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 3: And then thankfully once in office. I know, as I 293 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:32,479 Speaker 3: was passing through the sixth floor here at Bloomberg, I 294 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 3: saw the very deliberate kind of floor plan that you 295 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 3: have and food and beverage kind of accessible to employees. 296 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,880 Speaker 2: Everybody has to go through six It causes all these 297 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 2: random meetings that you have. Oh, I haven't seen all 298 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 2: the time. How's everything going? Because everybody shows up for 299 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:50,360 Speaker 2: coffee or. 300 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 3: Treats totally and we have the same So ours is 301 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 3: on the eighth floor. But we call it the casual collision, 302 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 3: and that's really important to our culture to kind of 303 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 3: show up certainly as soon as we could do do 304 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 3: so from a practical perspective and allow for that collaboration, 305 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 3: it's super important for people to share and get to 306 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 3: the best answer possible together. 307 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 2: So I want to talk about the wealth channel, but 308 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 2: before I get there, I have to ask about something 309 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:24,880 Speaker 2: that Apollo does that not every large private markets firm does. 310 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 2: You have talked about realigning the interest of the firm 311 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 2: with clients, making sure that you're on the same side 312 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 2: of trades and towards that end. Apollo is a regular 313 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 2: co investor along with clients in certain projects. 314 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 3: Tell us about that. Yeah, So from a kind of 315 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 3: balance sheet perspective, we are often one of, if not 316 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 3: the largest investor side by side with our third party 317 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:02,400 Speaker 3: clients and the investments and rategies that we manage. So 318 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 3: through our retirement services business a theme as well as 319 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 3: our third party business we invest side by side, and 320 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 3: so the decisions we make on behalf of the balance 321 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:23,439 Speaker 3: sheet are aligned with the outcomes of the strategies in 322 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 3: which we invest their party capital. So we often say, well, 323 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 3: we can't guarantee the outcome, we guarantee a shared outcome, 324 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 3: and that means a lot to us in terms of 325 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 3: our commitment and focus, but also to our clients because 326 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 3: they know how important it is to us in multiple ways. 327 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 2: I would imagine if anybody has hesitation on a investment, 328 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 2: if you see the private equity firm co investing along 329 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 2: with you, that has to be a big confidence driver. 330 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 3: It is, and in certain instances, like when you look 331 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:05,880 Speaker 3: across the industry, a commitment from an asset manager might 332 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 3: be at the two point five percent or three point 333 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 3: five percent. It's it's an outlier if it's a five 334 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 3: percent commitment. 335 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 2: But not double digits exactly. 336 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 3: Where in one strategy of ours, which has a diversified 337 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 3: portfolio of private markets, we are two thirds of that portfolio. 338 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 3: So when we say that it's it's meaningful to our 339 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:37,959 Speaker 3: balance sheet, we mean it. 340 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 2: How does that work in terms of direct stakes and 341 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 2: performance fees? Like if you're most of the invested assets. 342 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 2: That has to have an impact on what the balance 343 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 2: sheet looks like. How do you guys align that? 344 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 3: So, look, we are performance first at the end of 345 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 3: the day. Our our relationships and the trust that we 346 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 3: build are over time through performance and through service. I mean, 347 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 3: we want to make sure that our partners feel our 348 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 3: support in just about every way. So for us, it's 349 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:27,640 Speaker 3: never about a particular fee of one type or another. Ultimately, 350 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 3: we're not focused on an AUM goal. That is the 351 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 3: reward for good performance and as long as we are 352 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 3: making the best investment decisions and showing up frankly as 353 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,439 Speaker 3: a best in class partner for our clients, that is 354 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 3: what drives our business forward. 355 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about the wealth channel, 356 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:53,640 Speaker 2: which is where you focus some of your time early 357 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 2: in your career at Apollo. Tell us how this has 358 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 2: changed over the past twenty years, and tell us a 359 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 2: little bit about what type of clients show up there. 360 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, so, you know, the wealth business I saw certainly 361 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,360 Speaker 3: in my very early days of JP Morgan, but then 362 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,400 Speaker 3: for my first kind of sixteen plus years at Apollo, 363 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 3: the private bank or wire was really more the exception 364 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 3: than the role. It was more of a episodic type 365 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 3: of relationship that all completely transformed into a strategic commitment 366 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 3: from all of us at Apollo starting about four or 367 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,439 Speaker 3: five years ago. So when Mark Rowan took the Reins 368 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 3: as CEO, all the stars aligned to build a wealth 369 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 3: business to complement the institutional and that decision truly needed 370 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,919 Speaker 3: to come from the top CEO on down because it 371 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 3: is strategic, it's not transactional. If you're going to do 372 00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 3: it well, it needs to be a long term commitment 373 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 3: to the channel. And in my view, there are actually 374 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 3: only a small number of firms that can really show 375 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 3: up and do this well in partnership with all the 376 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 3: financial intermediaries involved with wealth. And the reason I say 377 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 3: that is when you look at what's required, it's a 378 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 3: pretty massive lift. You need to make sure that you 379 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 3: build out the right relationships and you need the team 380 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 3: globally in place to do that across channels and geographies. 381 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 3: You need to make sure that the product mix is 382 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 3: extensive enough so that you're relevant as it pertains to 383 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 3: our investment capability, but you want to make sure that 384 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,360 Speaker 3: you're showing up with the right structures for the right clients. 385 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 3: Then there's the educational component there's a service, there's technology. 386 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 3: For example, we have spent actually a billion dollars one 387 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 3: billion dollars from our balance sheet in wealth tech investments 388 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 3: alone to make sure that we're partnering and investing in 389 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,719 Speaker 3: firms that will help the industry. So I think there 390 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 3: are very few that can do that well and truly 391 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,640 Speaker 3: meet the wall clients where with in order to meet 392 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 3: their portfolio needs. 393 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 2: So within that channel, family offices, high net wealth, sovereign 394 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 2: funds are you're also selling through other intermediaries like broker's 395 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 2: firms or rias. 396 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 3: Tell us a little bit about that, yes, So the 397 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 3: channels represented in wealth include the private banks and wires 398 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 3: as one channel, the independence which includes rias and independent 399 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 3: broker dealers. Family office is also kind of under our 400 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 3: wealth umbrella. That's the ultra high net worth space selectively. 401 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 3: And then we have geographic focus, you know, outside of 402 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 3: of the US, across EMA, uh and and Asia. The 403 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 3: rest of North America is covered appropriately out of Canada 404 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 3: and lat Ham. So so each of those channels are 405 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 3: are represented. And while each has differences and we definitely 406 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 3: approach them with different resourcing and and commitments, the common 407 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 3: denominator of all of them is helping the intermediary, the 408 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 3: advisor or the banker or the CIO of the family 409 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:52,479 Speaker 3: office either build for retirement in the case of their 410 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 3: underlying client, or build to a certain level of wealth. 411 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 3: And so whether it's you know, a wire like a 412 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 3: UBS or a Morgan Stanley and their set of advisors 413 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 3: or you name kind of an RIA, we want to 414 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 3: show up to that intermediary with offerings that are going 415 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 3: to work for their platform and their their base and 416 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 3: make sure that we can speak to semi liquid as 417 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 3: well as drawdown and really kind of listen closely to 418 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 3: what they're looking to provide their clients. 419 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 2: So the challenge we always see on the RAA side 420 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 2: is on the privates, it seems everything is sort of 421 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 2: a one off and whereas on the public side, the 422 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 2: custodianship is standardized, the reporting is standardized, all the compliance 423 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 2: and due diligence is pretty you know, turnkey tell us 424 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 2: about a the challenges of all the private investments that 425 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 2: may not all be identical, and is there a solution 426 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 2: out there, a platform in development that might make this 427 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 2: more like a turnkey, more public security like than private. 428 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 3: It's a journey, but I think it's already getting better, 429 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 3: and I do see a world where it becomes so 430 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 3: much easier, more efficient to access. And so if we 431 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 3: look at what we're already seeing, you know, when we 432 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 3: think about an interval fund structure where you can buy 433 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 3: many different underlying strategies, it's point and click through an advisor. 434 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,719 Speaker 3: But it's point and click. There isn't kind of the 435 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 3: fullsome subscription process that we've seen. There's innovation which you 436 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 3: know we have worked on in partnership with Statesheet, for example, 437 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 3: where there are ETF structures of which private markets are 438 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 3: a part. And I think the technology is moving from 439 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 3: kind of more of an analog to digital in just 440 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 3: kind of the plumbing in the infrastructure that supports the 441 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 3: private markets overall ecosystem. So there's definitely a lot of 442 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 3: time and effort to try to simplify the processes, and 443 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 3: I think it's going to go hand in hand with 444 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 3: an evolution that's already starting where allocators are looking to 445 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 3: managers like ourselves to not only offer specific parts or 446 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 3: specific strategies, but to increasingly offer more holistic solutions. So 447 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 3: a bundle of private market solutions which could be multi 448 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 3: strategy going to eventually kind of multi strategy, multi manager 449 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 3: as well, which can then be housed not only in 450 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 3: the accounts, brokerage accounts or self directed that we see 451 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 3: so often today, but in a range of pools of 452 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 3: capital and models and a number of discretionary pools of 453 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 3: capital that are highly applicable for private markets. 454 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 2: Really really interesting. Coming up, we continue our conversation with 455 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 2: Stephanie Dresher, Apollos chief Client and Product development Officer, discussing 456 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 2: the state of private markets today. I'm very results you're 457 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 2: listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. I'm Marry Redults. 458 00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 2: You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. My 459 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 2: extra special guest to Stephanie Dresher. She is the chief 460 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 2: Client and Product development Officer at private investment giant Apollo, 461 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 2: helping to oversee eight hundred and forty billion dollars in 462 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 2: client assets. So we're living in a moment where private 463 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 2: credit and private equity they used to be a small niche. 464 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 2: That's no longer the case. Not only are they mainstream, 465 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 2: they're one of the fastest growing parts of the investment world. 466 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 2: Tell us a little bit about what's happening in that 467 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 2: space and what's driving that shift? 468 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's been a transformation in terms of 469 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 3: public and private holdings in a portfolio and what does 470 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 3: it mean to be safe or risky? Think Historically people 471 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 3: have thought that because something was liquid in the public markets, 472 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 3: it was inherently safe or frankly safer, and something less 473 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 3: liquid in the private markets. And as we look at 474 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 3: twenty twenty two and frankly many moments of dislocation in 475 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:13,800 Speaker 3: the public markets, I think there's now a much clearer 476 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 3: recognition that the public markets can be both safe and risky, 477 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 3: as can the private markets. Because when we look at 478 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 3: the public markets, let's say the S and P five hundred, 479 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 3: for example, the performance and frankly moments of underperformance had 480 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,720 Speaker 3: been so concentrated in terms of the attribution to roughly 481 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 3: seven stocks. Sometimes people will say ten stocks. But when 482 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 3: there's so much concentration or frankly, lack of diversification in 483 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 3: the public markets, it creates a moment where people start 484 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 3: to zoom out and say, frankly, what if the toolkit 485 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 3: for my equity piece of the portfolio should have a 486 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 3: combination of both public and private And frankly, what if 487 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 3: my fixed income segment of the portfolio should have both 488 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 3: public and private. Then the toolkit for advisors and for 489 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:21,359 Speaker 3: families is much broader to create that excess return. And 490 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 3: what we've seen is the desire to incorporate the private markets, 491 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 3: not just as an add on to an otherwise traditional 492 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 3: sixty forty portfolio, but rather thinking of it as part 493 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 3: of their core holdings in equity and debt, and now 494 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:45,280 Speaker 3: thinking simply of alternatives as an alternative to public stocks 495 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 3: and bonds. 496 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 2: So sixty forty becomes fifty thirty twenty or sixty twenty 497 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 2: twenty or something along those lines. 498 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, or it could even keep whatever percentages are split 499 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 3: between public, between equity and debt, but have both the 500 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 3: public and private options available within each of those percentages 501 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 3: to maximize the return, to maximize oversification, and to reduce 502 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,760 Speaker 3: the volatility. It's a game changer. It's no longer nice 503 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,399 Speaker 3: to have private markets in a portfolio. It's a need 504 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 3: to have in order to meet the long term financial 505 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:25,800 Speaker 3: goals of the client. 506 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,880 Speaker 2: So one of the things I can't help but notice 507 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 2: over the course of my career, which began more or 508 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,280 Speaker 2: less around the same time as yours in the mid nineties, 509 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 2: is that the total number of public equities has shrunk dramatically. 510 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 2: The Wilshire five thousand is about thirty four hundred stocks, 511 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 2: The S and P five hundred still five hundred and 512 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,279 Speaker 2: two stocks. Because of a shares it's a little over 513 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 2: five hundred. But even the Russell two thousand and some 514 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 2: of the other broader indexes far fewer public names in there. 515 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 2: How much the shrinking of the public float driving activity 516 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 2: onto the private side. 517 00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 3: I think it's very real. You're right, it's about half 518 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,839 Speaker 3: the number of public companies it was, you know, just 519 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 3: you know, even a couple of decades ago. At the 520 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,839 Speaker 3: same time, when when you look at the number of 521 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 3: companies total number of companies globally, ninety percent are in 522 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 3: fact private. So if someone truly wants representative exposure in 523 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:37,360 Speaker 3: their portfolio, it's really hard to rationalize eliminating ninety percent 524 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 3: of the total number of companies out there right and 525 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 3: focusing exclusively on public because it's liquid. Realistically, one needs 526 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 3: to look at what is the return profile goal for 527 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 3: the portfolio, what type of illiquidity can can someone accept, 528 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 3: and then a portfolio that allows for that excess return. 529 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 3: Institutions have realized that now over decades, and they've been 530 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 3: the beneficiaries of that excess return by accepting some amount 531 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 3: of illiquidity. With the advent of new structures in the 532 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 3: private market, certainly for wealth and increasingly even for institutions. 533 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:22,400 Speaker 2: You. 534 00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 3: Can select offerings out there that provide more interim liquidity. 535 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,719 Speaker 3: It's not your ATM, no one should think that it is, 536 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 3: but it provides a much broader suite of solutions across 537 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 3: a range of liquidity profiles, offering far more liquidity than 538 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 3: one would have received in a traditional private equity draw 539 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 3: down structure. In our view, as we develop portfolios with 540 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 3: our clients, depending on what they're looking for in terms 541 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 3: of underlying return and liquidity, we believe there's a role 542 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:13,040 Speaker 3: for a mix of both more liquid private markets structures 543 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 3: as well as draw down depending on the strategy. 544 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 2: So let's talk about liquidly and semi liquidly as well 545 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:26,640 Speaker 2: as illoquidly. The academic perspective has always been, hey, when 546 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 2: you're moving into an ill liquid market, you get the 547 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:34,239 Speaker 2: benefit of the illiquidity premium. It's a smaller market, it's 548 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,319 Speaker 2: less efficient, there's opportunities to create alpha here, but the 549 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,919 Speaker 2: trade off is your money is locked up for three years, 550 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,439 Speaker 2: for five years, for seven years, whatever it is. When 551 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,879 Speaker 2: first with the semi liquid products, are you giving up 552 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 2: some of that upside in exchange for semi liquidity. 553 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,960 Speaker 3: Our view is that the structure and the design should 554 00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 3: marry the underlying assets in the portfolio. 555 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 2: So two year credit notes are going to be more 556 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 2: liquid than perpetual open ended exactly. 557 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,320 Speaker 3: So we have you know, in our view, the strategies 558 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:15,720 Speaker 3: within private markets are so wide ranging, which to your point, 559 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 3: in terms of portfolio construction, you know, our view is 560 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:24,840 Speaker 3: that since a private market holding can span everything from 561 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:30,680 Speaker 3: short term investment grade credit all the way through to 562 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 3: your traditional kind of private equity drawdown, that's a very 563 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 3: wide range. And when you think broadly about that type 564 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:43,840 Speaker 3: of exposure, why shouldn't an allocation in in a portfolio 565 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,840 Speaker 3: be maybe even fifty percent to private markets, just given 566 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:52,239 Speaker 3: the breath and applicability of the underlying assets from the 567 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:56,640 Speaker 3: short dated investment grade credit all the way through to 568 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 3: more traditional private private equity. To your point, there are 569 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,879 Speaker 3: options where private markets can be a part of an 570 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 3: overall portfolio, like an ETF format where it is in 571 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:14,000 Speaker 3: fact daily as part of a broader portfolio, or if 572 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 3: you go to kind of an investment create strategy. It 573 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 3: may be you know, monthly in nature, but you're you're right. 574 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 3: The trade off for stepping out a bit on the 575 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:31,440 Speaker 3: liquidity curve, albeit you know, not too much. Further, is 576 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,680 Speaker 3: a pickup in the access return really interesting? 577 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,000 Speaker 2: You know, I'm not going to quote you exactly, but 578 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:44,560 Speaker 2: I did read something you had said about private credit 579 00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 2: is that you see a full on fundamental rethink taking 580 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:54,160 Speaker 2: place in the space. Explain what you mean by fundamental rethink. 581 00:41:55,719 --> 00:42:02,719 Speaker 4: You know, the the idea of of private markets or 582 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:07,760 Speaker 4: alternative of our alternatives being that very high risk portion 583 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 4: of a portfolio and therefore a small percentage of one's 584 00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,000 Speaker 4: allocation locked up for a long period of time. 585 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:21,719 Speaker 3: That's just no longer the modern thinking of the use 586 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,319 Speaker 3: of private markets in a portfolio. There's no reason right 587 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:29,120 Speaker 3: now why an advisor and a banker can't think in 588 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:33,200 Speaker 3: a far more flexible way that how they are meeting 589 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:38,880 Speaker 3: the need to save for retirement or the ability to 590 00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:47,160 Speaker 3: build wealth with private market structures in mind. So it 591 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:51,280 Speaker 3: kind of goes back to that idea of public markets 592 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:55,600 Speaker 3: being safe and private markets being risky. That's no longer 593 00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:02,279 Speaker 3: kind of the thinking in the market. I think intermediaries 594 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:09,480 Speaker 3: have really challenged that historical way of building portfolios and 595 00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:13,759 Speaker 3: they want the same benefits that the institutions have now 596 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:18,440 Speaker 3: had for decades. The reality is that the size of 597 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:23,120 Speaker 3: the wealth market in terms of assets held by families 598 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:27,399 Speaker 3: by individuals is about the same size as that held 599 00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:32,160 Speaker 3: by institutions, each about one hundred and fifty trillion or so. Globally. 600 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:38,000 Speaker 3: The institutions right now have an average allocation of over 601 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:44,800 Speaker 3: twenty percent to private markets. The individual on average three percent. 602 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say single digits, clearly, absolutely, 603 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:52,440 Speaker 2: and all of the when we look at the projections 604 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:56,440 Speaker 2: and a variety of wargame scenarios, this looks like this 605 00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,520 Speaker 2: is going to continue to grow over the next decade. 606 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,279 Speaker 2: The I know this is a speculative question and no 607 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:07,320 Speaker 2: one really knows, but how large can the private markets 608 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,960 Speaker 2: get relative to the public markets? Can they be the 609 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:12,279 Speaker 2: same size eventually? 610 00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:20,040 Speaker 3: Look, our view is that origination is the great differentiator. 611 00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:27,839 Speaker 3: So we focus not as kind of a um as 612 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:32,280 Speaker 3: a limiter, but rather origination and. 613 00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,640 Speaker 2: Maybe to find that because when I hear origination, I'm 614 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,680 Speaker 2: thinking not all private investments are created the same. 615 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:49,440 Speaker 3: Right, It's the ability to create proprietary investment opportunities is 616 00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:55,839 Speaker 3: in our view, a huge differentiator for a platform, and 617 00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:02,239 Speaker 3: we partner with financial intermedia years and that is additive 618 00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:09,440 Speaker 3: in terms of the flow of investment opportunities, but not exclusively. 619 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:14,520 Speaker 3: In fact, over the last almost fifteen years now, we've 620 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:20,680 Speaker 3: built out sixteen proprietary origination engines so that we can 621 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:25,800 Speaker 3: create that investment alpha and house for the benefit of 622 00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:33,120 Speaker 3: our clients, and that proprietary origination fuels are underlying portfolios, 623 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:38,880 Speaker 3: which ultimately, in our view, is critical to delivering on 624 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:39,400 Speaker 3: the return. 625 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,680 Speaker 2: So those sixteen different engines, I'm going to assume they're 626 00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:48,280 Speaker 2: each in a different type of space exactly, So real assets, infrastructure, 627 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:52,480 Speaker 2: private credit, private debt, which isn't always the exact same thing. 628 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,399 Speaker 2: Private equity has got to be many more. What other 629 00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,560 Speaker 2: spaces are you what other geographies are you looking at, 630 00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:03,000 Speaker 2: What other spaces you're looking at? What's the product makes 631 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 2: look like? 632 00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:08,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, So on the origination side, it is quite broad. 633 00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:12,200 Speaker 3: I think everything from fleet finance to. 634 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:17,640 Speaker 2: Fleet jets, ships above. 635 00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:22,760 Speaker 3: And even trucking. You know, there's a whole range in 636 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:29,000 Speaker 3: terms of everything from aviation to kind of ground transport. 637 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:35,239 Speaker 3: There's consumer finance, there's specialty finance, that's there's mortgages. So 638 00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:38,680 Speaker 3: it's it's quite broad in terms of the reach, but 639 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:46,640 Speaker 3: it's it's ultimately originating the investment in what we call 640 00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,120 Speaker 3: kind of the industrial renaissance, and the need for that 641 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:53,759 Speaker 3: private capital is real and additive to to what could 642 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:55,520 Speaker 3: otherwise be found in the public markets. 643 00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,560 Speaker 2: Really really fascinating. But before I get to I only 644 00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,080 Speaker 2: have you for limited amount of time. Before I get 645 00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:05,160 Speaker 2: to my favorite questions, let me just ask you one 646 00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:09,400 Speaker 2: more question. What do you think investors who are looking 647 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:15,640 Speaker 2: at the private markets aren't thinking about or talking about. 648 00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:15,480 Speaker 3: But should be. 649 00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:20,040 Speaker 2: What sort of topics, geographies, policy issues, what's out there 650 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,160 Speaker 2: that is getting overlooked but perhaps shouldn't. 651 00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:30,160 Speaker 3: So what I'm seeing more and more is a global 652 00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:37,799 Speaker 3: trend of the democratization for private markets. And as I 653 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,560 Speaker 3: look at what's happening, certainly in our own backyard in 654 00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:44,279 Speaker 3: terms of the executive orders around four oh one K, 655 00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:51,840 Speaker 3: and then I look to Europe and I see their 656 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:56,719 Speaker 3: regulation around the l TIF two point zero, or I 657 00:47:56,760 --> 00:48:00,239 Speaker 3: look even to the UK and I see REGs in 658 00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:05,759 Speaker 3: the UK and France in terms of certain requirements and 659 00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:10,120 Speaker 3: percentages to private markets in their retirement plans. To me, 660 00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:16,520 Speaker 3: there's a global theme of the desire to allow more 661 00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:24,719 Speaker 3: access of private markets to the individual and through their advisors, 662 00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:31,440 Speaker 3: through the intermediaries, to truly be able to adequately plan 663 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:37,480 Speaker 3: for retirement. And we see obviously the state of kind 664 00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:41,680 Speaker 3: of retirees here in the US, and there's a dire 665 00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:48,799 Speaker 3: need to give them through managed accounts, through target date 666 00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:55,280 Speaker 3: access to investments that will provide that additional access return. 667 00:48:55,960 --> 00:49:00,440 Speaker 3: And you know, as as we think about it, most 668 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:04,319 Speaker 3: of those four oh one k's have time horizons of decades, right, 669 00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,480 Speaker 3: yet the solutions they have available to them are daily 670 00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:14,480 Speaker 3: liquid that mismatch does not need to exist. And you know, 671 00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,759 Speaker 3: with with the changes that we're we're seeing come out 672 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:25,360 Speaker 3: of DC, you know, we're hopeful that the framework for 673 00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:29,319 Speaker 3: the benefit of those retirement plans will continue to be 674 00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:35,879 Speaker 3: one that shifts from the historical view of maximizing those 675 00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:40,399 Speaker 3: pools of capital to the lowest possible fee, to one 676 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:45,719 Speaker 3: where they look to maximize outcome and truly maximize the 677 00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:48,200 Speaker 3: result for those participants. 678 00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:53,600 Speaker 2: Really really very fascinating. Let's jump to our final five 679 00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:56,759 Speaker 2: questions that I ask all of my guests, Starting with 680 00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,920 Speaker 2: tell us about your mentors who helped your career. 681 00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:07,320 Speaker 3: Well, I mentioned in a prior part of our series 682 00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:09,920 Speaker 3: someone that I used to babysit for who gave me 683 00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,600 Speaker 3: my first shot in a healthcare consulting firm, so she 684 00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:18,759 Speaker 3: will remain part of my kind of uh my personal 685 00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:25,399 Speaker 3: advisory board. While at JP Morgan Mary Erdos is kind 686 00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:29,440 Speaker 3: of rock star status in my book and an amazing 687 00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,640 Speaker 3: uh mentor throughout my career. 688 00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:33,640 Speaker 2: Uh. 689 00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:37,960 Speaker 3: And then you know many at Apollo that I won't 690 00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,440 Speaker 3: name because I want to embarrass them, but that have 691 00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:44,719 Speaker 3: been incredible sponsors of my career with a lot of 692 00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:48,360 Speaker 3: opportunities just to continue to grow and develop as a professional. 693 00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,000 Speaker 2: Let's talk about books. What are you reading? What are 694 00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:54,239 Speaker 2: some of your favorites so well? 695 00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:58,840 Speaker 3: In terms of what I'm reading right now, there's a 696 00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:03,160 Speaker 3: book called Such Good People, which I will give a disclaimer. 697 00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:08,360 Speaker 3: It's written by Amy Bloomfeldt, and she is a great 698 00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:12,200 Speaker 3: close friend from college, and it's a great read. And 699 00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:14,279 Speaker 3: so I'm at the end and I don't want it 700 00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:18,680 Speaker 3: to end. So that's that's a great one. I was 701 00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:21,120 Speaker 3: actually just away this weekend and I have to say 702 00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,040 Speaker 3: I was struck where I was in the Berkshires, and 703 00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:30,080 Speaker 3: I was struck by the fall foliage and beautiful coming in. 704 00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:33,000 Speaker 3: I live and work in New York City, so seeing 705 00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:36,239 Speaker 3: those surroundings and being back in nature, it did make 706 00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:40,040 Speaker 3: me think of Emerson and Thoreau, who I did love, 707 00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:43,240 Speaker 3: and it's been a while since I've I read their works, 708 00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:46,719 Speaker 3: but it inspired me to go back and dust that off. 709 00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,480 Speaker 2: Let's talk about what's keeping you entertained these days? What 710 00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:54,240 Speaker 2: are you streaming or listening to other than you? Well, 711 00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,359 Speaker 2: this doesn't count us. Give us a different. 712 00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,160 Speaker 3: One, okay, Well, when that is top of mine and 713 00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:07,280 Speaker 3: who we actually just had participate live at a client 714 00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:12,840 Speaker 3: forum of ours is doctor David Sinclair of life Span, 715 00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:19,839 Speaker 3: and he is affiliated with Harvard, and his work fascinates 716 00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:21,120 Speaker 3: me in terms. 717 00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:22,960 Speaker 2: Of I. 718 00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:29,160 Speaker 3: Love that. That's a different one and I love that 719 00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:31,760 Speaker 3: professor as well in terms of the value of happiness 720 00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:33,120 Speaker 3: at different stages of our lives. 721 00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:33,680 Speaker 2: I love that. 722 00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,960 Speaker 3: But this actually relates to longevity more in terms of 723 00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:42,680 Speaker 3: genetics and all the research and science and even drug 724 00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:48,040 Speaker 3: development that is going into the kind of health and 725 00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:50,000 Speaker 3: wellness from a longevity. 726 00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,400 Speaker 2: The health Span study is that what they yes. 727 00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,680 Speaker 3: Exactly and research that they're already doing in terms of 728 00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,840 Speaker 3: eyes that could have applicability to many other parts of 729 00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,680 Speaker 3: our bodies. So I just find it kind of a 730 00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:04,399 Speaker 3: fascinating field that I think will develop so much over time. 731 00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,520 Speaker 3: And of course, from our work perspective, as I think 732 00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:11,120 Speaker 3: frankly of the work of both of those Harvard professors 733 00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:15,080 Speaker 3: and doctors. Now, how does it tie into the high 734 00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,600 Speaker 3: performance culture and mindset that we have as a farm Like, 735 00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:22,439 Speaker 3: how do we take that thinking and try to think 736 00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:24,120 Speaker 3: about our own employees over time? 737 00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:29,080 Speaker 2: And our final two questions, what sort of advice would 738 00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,840 Speaker 2: you give to a recent college grad interest in the 739 00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:37,920 Speaker 2: career in investing privates alternative investings? What's your advice? 740 00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:41,960 Speaker 3: Well, first off, go for it, because I think it's 741 00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:47,239 Speaker 3: there's still so much growth ahead. And I would just 742 00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:55,239 Speaker 3: say stay curious because you know, as as we think 743 00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:59,359 Speaker 3: about kind of the innovation that's happening just about from 744 00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:05,720 Speaker 3: every of product innovation and channels, and frankly even applicability 745 00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:11,360 Speaker 3: of AI to what we do today, if you're tuned 746 00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:16,480 Speaker 3: in from a curiosity perspective coupled with kind of strong 747 00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:21,400 Speaker 3: work ethic, I think that's a winning recipe. 748 00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:24,160 Speaker 2: And our final question, what do you know about the 749 00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:28,840 Speaker 2: world of alternative and private market investing today? Would have 750 00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:31,560 Speaker 2: been useful thirty years ago or so when you were 751 00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:32,960 Speaker 2: first getting started. 752 00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:35,799 Speaker 3: Well, no fun if you have the answer key right. 753 00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:43,240 Speaker 3: But look, I would say the one thing that stays 754 00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:49,960 Speaker 3: the same is change, and to embrace that and to 755 00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:54,480 Speaker 3: be flexible, to recognize that there will be so much 756 00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:58,719 Speaker 3: evolution and change that continues in front of us from 757 00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:04,000 Speaker 3: an industry and certain as someone starting if someone's starting 758 00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:08,680 Speaker 3: out now, to kind of enjoy that ride and recognize 759 00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:13,000 Speaker 3: that there will be many chapters that unfold and the 760 00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,520 Speaker 3: best we can kind of try to see where that 761 00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:22,680 Speaker 3: puck is going, but certainly and embrace that there's so 762 00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,240 Speaker 3: much more innovation and opportunity to come. 763 00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:30,760 Speaker 2: Really really interesting. Thank you, Stephanie for being so generous 764 00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:31,440 Speaker 2: with your time. 765 00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:32,920 Speaker 3: We have been. 766 00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:38,120 Speaker 2: Speaking with Stephanie Dresher, Apollo's chief client and product development Officer. 767 00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:42,040 Speaker 2: If you enjoy this conversation, check out any of the 768 00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,640 Speaker 2: five hundred and eighty nine we've done over the previous 769 00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:50,960 Speaker 2: eleven and a half years. You can find those at iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, Bloomberg, 770 00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:54,719 Speaker 2: wherever you find your favorite podcast, and be sure and 771 00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:58,840 Speaker 2: check out my new book, How Not to Invest The ideas, numbers, 772 00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:02,400 Speaker 2: and behavior that destroys wealth and how to avoid them 773 00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:05,880 Speaker 2: wherever you get your books at. I would be remiss 774 00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:07,920 Speaker 2: if I didn't thank the Cracked team that helps put 775 00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:13,719 Speaker 2: these conversations together each week. Alexis Noriega is my video producer. 776 00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:18,400 Speaker 2: Sean Russo is my researcher. Anna Luke is my producer. 777 00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:22,439 Speaker 2: Sage Bauman is the head of podcasts at Bloomberg. I'm 778 00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:26,640 Speaker 2: Barry Rudoltz. You've been listening to Masters in Business on 779 00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:32,880 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Radio