WEBVTT - Before Science

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff

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<v Speaker 1>Works dot com. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow

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<v Speaker 1>your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb, and i'm putely

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<v Speaker 1>Douglas Julie, who was the first scientist, who indeed, in fact,

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<v Speaker 1>when did the term scientists even get into a lexicon.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what we're going to talk about here, this idea

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<v Speaker 1>that science and philosophy they have been strange bedfellows for

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<v Speaker 1>a very long time. They've had the symbiotic relationship, and

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<v Speaker 1>at one point they were pretty much interwoven. And so

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<v Speaker 1>we're gonna tease this idea of science and scientists out today. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>because obviously we've always been curious as a species. We've

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<v Speaker 1>always gazed up into the sky and wondered what's going

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<v Speaker 1>on there, or gazed out into the dark beyond the

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<v Speaker 1>campfire and wondered exactly how that worked, looked at our

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<v Speaker 1>own bodies and tried to figure out what was wrong

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<v Speaker 1>with this and how we might fix the problems. But

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<v Speaker 1>there is a certain point in the past one can

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<v Speaker 1>argue in which we can really say that the the

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<v Speaker 1>the scientist emerges from culture and and it's not just

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<v Speaker 1>a matter of being curious, and it's not just a

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<v Speaker 1>matter of even engaging in investigations, in experiments in an

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<v Speaker 1>attempt to understand these things. But there's actually a split

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<v Speaker 1>when people start becoming scientists and wielding science in an

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<v Speaker 1>attempt to understand the world around us and better the

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<v Speaker 1>world around us. Right, there's a formalizing of the physical

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<v Speaker 1>sciences that is really the term actually a scientists is

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<v Speaker 1>only one d and eighty years old. And um, we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to explore this concept through a TED talk by

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<v Speaker 1>Professor Laura Snyder. She's a Fulbright scholar and professor of

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<v Speaker 1>philosophy at St. John's University, and she gives us rousing

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<v Speaker 1>TED talk, a rousing Ted talking imagine about the origins

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<v Speaker 1>of this term and tying it back to this idea,

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<v Speaker 1>this central idea that science is not just for scientists.

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<v Speaker 1>So she gives a very nice wide angle view of

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<v Speaker 1>how the physical sciences that we think about today or

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<v Speaker 1>scientists really owe a lot of its success um to

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<v Speaker 1>a night back in eighteen thirty three. Yes, but well

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<v Speaker 1>we'll discuss that later. First, I think we should talk

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<v Speaker 1>about this, uh idea of a philosophical breakfast club at

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<v Speaker 1>Snyder terms. Um, this this meeting of the minds where

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<v Speaker 1>the seeds of the modern concepts of science were first cultivated. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>early nineteenth century, and you had four high school students

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<v Speaker 1>who were forced to stay in Saturday school all day

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<v Speaker 1>by the that's not breakfast club right now. This breakfast

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<v Speaker 1>club consisted of four individuals though, and they were Charles

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<v Speaker 1>Babbage of the Babbage Engine, you know, first mechanical calculator

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<v Speaker 1>and prototype of the modern computer. John Herschel, astronomer, also

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<v Speaker 1>co invented photography. It's say, Richard Jones, the economist, and

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<v Speaker 1>William Hewell noted scientists at the time. That's right, And

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<v Speaker 1>I just wanted to add to that Babbage, of course,

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<v Speaker 1>that he, you know, the first prototype of the modern computer.

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<v Speaker 1>He was also aided by the first computer programmer at

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<v Speaker 1>A Lovelace. And this may have actually her inclusion in

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<v Speaker 1>this may have actually colored the more participation of women

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<v Speaker 1>later on in these societies, um or science societies, I

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<v Speaker 1>should say, but we'll get to that first. I wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to say that these guys who would meet for breakfast

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<v Speaker 1>and discuss science and what was wrong with it and

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<v Speaker 1>what was right about it and what they needed to do,

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<v Speaker 1>they really contributed a lot to sort of the foundation

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<v Speaker 1>of what we think of as modern science today. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>they were really laying it out, picking it apart. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>assuming they were having some caffeinated beverages in there to

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<v Speaker 1>to stoke things and get things going, because they were

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<v Speaker 1>a very energetic group of people, not only in their

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<v Speaker 1>their outside lives but also just in this uh this

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<v Speaker 1>called breakfast club. Is they're they're laying the groundwork for

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<v Speaker 1>really what we think of a science today. When people say, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>I love science, or they're going to a tumbler page

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<v Speaker 1>about about effing loving science, it's kind of worn out

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<v Speaker 1>of their discussions about what what works, what has worked

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<v Speaker 1>in other areas, and what is going to work best

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<v Speaker 1>moving forward. Yeah, and we're talking about eighteen thirteen UM,

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<v Speaker 1>and they are discussing some principles here, like the scientific method,

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<v Speaker 1>although at this point it was not called the scientific

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<v Speaker 1>method um exclusively. It was more of the inductive method.

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<v Speaker 1>And there was also something called the deductive method at

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<v Speaker 1>the time. So scientific method now, you know, there arely

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<v Speaker 1>two hundred years before you have people like Francis Bacon

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<v Speaker 1>that we're proposing an inductive scientific method. You start with

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<v Speaker 1>observation and experiments, and you move on to generalizations about nature,

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<v Speaker 1>formalization of natural laws, and you can always revise how

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<v Speaker 1>to reject the results, right, yeah, yeah, But then eighteen

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<v Speaker 1>o nine you have this economist bed in the name

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<v Speaker 1>of David Ricardo, and he really starts causing some trouble

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<v Speaker 1>because he's saying, oh, actually we should use a deductive

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<v Speaker 1>method in economics, in the in the economic sciences, and

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<v Speaker 1>then various people to Oxford are agreeing with them, and

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<v Speaker 1>they're saying, yeah, actually, you know, maybe the deductive method

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<v Speaker 1>is best, which you just spread at all the science sciences,

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<v Speaker 1>and our friends on the breakfast club here they say,

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely not right, because what we're talking about with the

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<v Speaker 1>deductive method is taking a top down approach. Our general

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<v Speaker 1>general premise has proven out as opposed to just sort

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<v Speaker 1>of taking these observations in this data as you would

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<v Speaker 1>with the inductive method and trying to figure out what

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<v Speaker 1>shakes out of that and continuing to go back to

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<v Speaker 1>those results and revising and rejecting, which is really the

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<v Speaker 1>seeds of what we know of as the scientific method.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, those guys, if they hadn't debated this, if

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<v Speaker 1>they hadn't written very persuasive arguments, persuasive papers about this.

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<v Speaker 1>They may not have influenced as many scientists as they did.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, Charles Darwin is among the group of scientists

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<v Speaker 1>at that time or what's known as natural world hobbyists,

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<v Speaker 1>because they didn't have the term yet to read one

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<v Speaker 1>of the papers and said, ah, yeah, I'm on the

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<v Speaker 1>right path here, and this is how I should conduct

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<v Speaker 1>my research. And of course that's key. They were not

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<v Speaker 1>only simply hanging around having breakfast and discussing these things.

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<v Speaker 1>Then they moved on these ideas, they published their thoughts,

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<v Speaker 1>they spread the word, and they were very vocal to

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<v Speaker 1>their peers. Now, another area where they had a huge

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<v Speaker 1>influence was the kind of establishment of open source science, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>and that this is the idea that that science isn't

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<v Speaker 1>merely for the benefit of a king or a queen.

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<v Speaker 1>It's it's something that can actually benefit everyone, society as

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<v Speaker 1>a whole right, or even one's own personal gain. In

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<v Speaker 1>other words, if you had enough money, if you had

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<v Speaker 1>enough nobility, then you could as a hobby, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>study something and find these results out for yourself and

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<v Speaker 1>and maybe a nobleman's cocktail party whatever that was back

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<v Speaker 1>in the day you could recall everybody with all this information.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, they took information and they felt like it

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<v Speaker 1>was important to spread it to the wider community. In

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<v Speaker 1>a good example of this that Snyder brings out is

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<v Speaker 1>that back in the day, ship captains needed to know

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<v Speaker 1>information about tides in order to safely dock at ports,

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<v Speaker 1>and Harvard Masters would gather this knowledge and sell it

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<v Speaker 1>to the ship captains, which seems kind of crazy to

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<v Speaker 1>us now because this is something that's so like, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>of course we know about all about the tides, but

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<v Speaker 1>Hewell's worldwide study of the tides resulted in public tide

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<v Speaker 1>tables and tidal maps, and then that freely provided the

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<v Speaker 1>Harvard masters knowledge to all ship captains. So it's sort

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<v Speaker 1>of like I think about it now, like you go online,

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<v Speaker 1>you get the weather report for the next ten days.

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<v Speaker 1>You don't have to pay for that. Well, I guess

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<v Speaker 1>in theory you don't have to. Some people would argue

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<v Speaker 1>that via your internet connection you're paying for but this

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<v Speaker 1>is information that's really open to all. But can you

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<v Speaker 1>imagine having to go to a specific person and saying

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<v Speaker 1>I need the weather for the next ten days and

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<v Speaker 1>planning this huge event, and it's the big secret that

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<v Speaker 1>they keep from you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we would live

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<v Speaker 1>in a totally different world. Another thing that they did

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<v Speaker 1>is they began to lobby the government for money for research. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>before this, you had to really fund everything yourself, including

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<v Speaker 1>the equipment that you would use. And the big example

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<v Speaker 1>here would is Babbage's Babbage Engine. They said, they went

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<v Speaker 1>to the to the British government, they said, hey, this

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<v Speaker 1>machine for number crunching would be a huge benefit to

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<v Speaker 1>not not only the government, but also to the people

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<v Speaker 1>in general. Like this, this is a very useful device.

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<v Speaker 1>You should give us some money to make this reality. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And then another thing that they did is that they

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<v Speaker 1>helped to create various scientific societies. So before you know

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<v Speaker 1>the establishment of some of these societies, you had something

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<v Speaker 1>like the Royal Society of London, which was essentially a

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<v Speaker 1>hangout for literary men and nobility. Um. Then they created

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<v Speaker 1>the British Association and that encouraged active researchers who actually

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<v Speaker 1>published their works. Yeah, not just socialites essentially hanging out

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<v Speaker 1>and an old boys society here, but people are actually

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<v Speaker 1>contributing to scientific understanding. And they brought back a Q

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<v Speaker 1>and a session after papers were read. So in other words,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a which I love. They had gotten rid of

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<v Speaker 1>that earlier because we just ungentlemanly, why would you, Why

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<v Speaker 1>would you you muddy the situation by allowing criticism. Just

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<v Speaker 1>just let the man up there, let him share his findings,

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<v Speaker 1>and that'll be the end of it. No, that's not

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<v Speaker 1>how science works. So they brought the Q and A

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<v Speaker 1>sessions back. Yeah, and women were given a foot in

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<v Speaker 1>the door. And you have to wonder again, it's just

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<v Speaker 1>because of Ada Lovelace and some of her work that

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<v Speaker 1>she did with Babbage. This encouraging of everyone to participate

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<v Speaker 1>in science. All Right, we're gonna take a quick break

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<v Speaker 1>and when we come back, we'll discuss a little more

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<v Speaker 1>this birth of the scientists, if you will. All right,

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<v Speaker 1>we are back. The night is j three. There is

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<v Speaker 1>a great gathering of philosophical and scientific minds at the

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<v Speaker 1>British Association for the Advancement of Science. One man dares

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<v Speaker 1>to stand up and wonder why scientists keep calling themselves

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<v Speaker 1>natural philosophers. And that man is Coleridge. Yeah, Yeah, the

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<v Speaker 1>poet Sam Taylor Coleridge. And he's he's basically saying, look,

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<v Speaker 1>you're not philosophers like what I love about this. He's

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<v Speaker 1>basically kind of like trying to break up with the scientists.

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<v Speaker 1>It's kind of a reverse of what you see or

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<v Speaker 1>what what the what we saw World Science Festival this

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<v Speaker 1>year when you had sort of the scientists sort of

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<v Speaker 1>picking on the philosophers and being up in arms against

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<v Speaker 1>the floscos. Here we see a self professed philosopher saying, no,

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<v Speaker 1>this is a philosophy is about armchair stargazing. Basically, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we're not out there digging around in the dirt. This

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<v Speaker 1>is a This is the the occupation of a learned

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<v Speaker 1>man who is just setting among his books and uh

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<v Speaker 1>and and contemplating just how reality works. And you're selling

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<v Speaker 1>it by calling yourself a natural philosophers. Yeah. And now

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<v Speaker 1>the room does not take that kindly. I mean, essentially

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<v Speaker 1>they start doing But he will remember he's been, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>trying to organize this idea of science and scientists for

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<v Speaker 1>nearly twenty years. At this point he stands up. He

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<v Speaker 1>seizes this opportunity and he says, you know, I pretty

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<v Speaker 1>much agree here, and if you'll you'll hear me out.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that he has something to say. He said,

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<v Speaker 1>if philosophers has taken to be too wide and lofty.

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<v Speaker 1>A turn them by analogy with artists, we may form

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<v Speaker 1>scientists and boom, the term is born. But it's not

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<v Speaker 1>just the term, it's the idea now is taking shape

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<v Speaker 1>and form of that this person who is no longer

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<v Speaker 1>just called a natural world hobbyists like Darwin would have

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<v Speaker 1>been considered world is really like today you say I

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<v Speaker 1>want to be a scientist when you grow up, that's great.

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<v Speaker 1>But if you were to say I want to be

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<v Speaker 1>a natural world hobbyist when I grow up, it would

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<v Speaker 1>be a bit of a of an upset. I think

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<v Speaker 1>parents might weep. Yeah, yeah, get a real job, right, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is an interesting dividing point. And just the

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<v Speaker 1>words we used to describe what we do and and

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<v Speaker 1>and how those words and the definitions of that occupation

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<v Speaker 1>end up defining the movement and uh and you know

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<v Speaker 1>we we we see it continue to stay with with

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<v Speaker 1>science sort of build up like this, uh, like this

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<v Speaker 1>slime mold that moves through the halls of reality. That

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<v Speaker 1>that that based on scientific method and uh and in

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<v Speaker 1>a rigorous experimentation and examination of the natural world attempts

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<v Speaker 1>to understand exactly what environment we're dealing with and sharing

0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:35.800
<v Speaker 1>this information, sharing this information, yeah, with with the greater public. Now,

0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:38.360
<v Speaker 1>what happens that the British Association for the Vancement of

0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.800
<v Speaker 1>Science decided that they would begin to give grant money.

0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:45.040
<v Speaker 1>So it's not just government institutions dealing out grant money.

0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:48.719
<v Speaker 1>Now we actually have you know this, this independent institution,

0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:53.160
<v Speaker 1>um saying that basically on the advice of this philosophical

0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:57.120
<v Speaker 1>breakfast club, these four guys from Cambridge, that they're going

0:12:57.160 --> 0:12:59.800
<v Speaker 1>to start to give grants for research and astronomy. That's

0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:03.760
<v Speaker 1>hides fossil fish and according to Snyder, ship building in

0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:07.240
<v Speaker 1>a lot of different areas. That really began to expand

0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:11.559
<v Speaker 1>everyone's knowledge about the physical world. Yeah. Once again, not

0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:15.480
<v Speaker 1>just the occupation of independently wealthy learned men and not

0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:18.559
<v Speaker 1>simply for the benefit of kings and queens. Yeah. I mean,

0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:22.680
<v Speaker 1>can you imagine a world without this formalized idea of science,

0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:26.800
<v Speaker 1>that these formalized structures and support that are underpinning all

0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.520
<v Speaker 1>of this, I mean, our inventions. You would have to

0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:34.120
<v Speaker 1>wonder how many of those would have been created and supported? Um,

0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:37.400
<v Speaker 1>what sort of data would be shared without this formalized

0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:39.240
<v Speaker 1>system and I feel like we get a glimpse of

0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:41.800
<v Speaker 1>it perhaps sometimes when you look at the outliers, you

0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:45.320
<v Speaker 1>see you glimpse into the world of pseudo science and

0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.080
<v Speaker 1>junk science, and and you get perhaps a glimpse of

0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:49.760
<v Speaker 1>a little more of what the world would be like.

0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:54.120
<v Speaker 1>Uh if we didn't have this tint of science, Erector, well,

0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:56.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean you could say, you could make the point

0:13:56.520 --> 0:14:01.440
<v Speaker 1>here that are a life expectancy is actually directly related

0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.400
<v Speaker 1>to this idea of science coming on board and helping

0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:09.240
<v Speaker 1>to separate pseudoscience from science. Um, so our quality of

0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:13.160
<v Speaker 1>life as well. So it's it's very important this moment

0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.960
<v Speaker 1>back in eighteen thirty three, which really helped the trajectory

0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:19.320
<v Speaker 1>of science that we see today, because we have seen

0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:24.240
<v Speaker 1>incredible things. I mean, she's just in the last thirty years, um,

0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:26.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, this hundred and eighty years since this term

0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:29.960
<v Speaker 1>has been created has seen incredible things as well. Now.

0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:32.800
<v Speaker 1>Laura Snyder in her talk also mentions that this, uh,

0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:36.440
<v Speaker 1>this also inevitably led to a cultural divide. Yeah. She

0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:41.040
<v Speaker 1>says that um, Babbage, Herschel, Jones, and Heuel this philosophical

0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:44.240
<v Speaker 1>breakfast club, they did not foresee this consequence of this

0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:47.880
<v Speaker 1>revolution um, and they would have been really dismayed by

0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:50.680
<v Speaker 1>this disjunction today that we have between science and the

0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:53.600
<v Speaker 1>rest of culture. And she goes on to say that

0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:56.560
<v Speaker 1>it's really shocking to realize that only twenty eight percent

0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:01.320
<v Speaker 1>of American adults have a basic level of science literacy.

0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.040
<v Speaker 1>And she's saying, we're talking about questions like did humans

0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:07.960
<v Speaker 1>and dinosaurs inhabit the Earth at the same time, Okay,

0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:09.600
<v Speaker 1>I just want to make sure we're clear on that.

0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:12.920
<v Speaker 1>And what proportion of the Earth is covered in water?

0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:19.760
<v Speaker 1>Now that was like nine nine, so if you're counting

0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:23.320
<v Speaker 1>swimming pools, maybe exactly. But she's saying, you know that

0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:26.080
<v Speaker 1>they did not see that this would happen, that that

0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:29.880
<v Speaker 1>that scientists would become slowly walled off from each other,

0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:32.520
<v Speaker 1>she says, and that's where she comes back to this

0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:36.640
<v Speaker 1>idea that science isn't just for scientists, it is for everyone.

0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:40.440
<v Speaker 1>And that's the lesson that we need to take from

0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:44.080
<v Speaker 1>this historical perspective. Yeah, that science should not be this

0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:47.440
<v Speaker 1>this fortress. Uh. And and then everyone else is living

0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:50.280
<v Speaker 1>outside the walls of it, because then you depend more

0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:53.520
<v Speaker 1>and more on individuals who can communicate between the people

0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:55.680
<v Speaker 1>inside the wall and the people on the outside, and

0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:57.960
<v Speaker 1>you really need more move you need you need those

0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:01.680
<v Speaker 1>open doors of communication. I mean that that's why you

0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.280
<v Speaker 1>see a you know, increased emphasis on storytelling and science.

0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:06.800
<v Speaker 1>Being be able to tell the story of the science,

0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:11.760
<v Speaker 1>be able to communicate to normal individuals outside of the

0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:14.160
<v Speaker 1>science is what you're doing, why it's important, and how

0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:16.600
<v Speaker 1>it benefits everybody. And we've talked about this idea that

0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:20.600
<v Speaker 1>we're all natural scientists anyway, that we are all prepackaged

0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:23.440
<v Speaker 1>and ready to go with science. That you see three

0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:27.440
<v Speaker 1>and four year olds who are like Euclidean geometry masters.

0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:30.280
<v Speaker 1>They're using the dimensions of a wall to navigate space

0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:33.640
<v Speaker 1>and all sorts of different clues from the physical world.

0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:36.560
<v Speaker 1>And that's you know, we have accounting sense even when

0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:40.960
<v Speaker 1>we're we're you know, babies, We can tell if there's

0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:44.400
<v Speaker 1>more in one group or less than another. So again,

0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:48.760
<v Speaker 1>all of this is inherent to us and it should

0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:52.000
<v Speaker 1>not be looked at as being separate from us. Yeah, exactly.

0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:54.600
<v Speaker 1>You know, again, there were there, We've always had people

0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:57.560
<v Speaker 1>who are essentially scientists, way back to the ancient, ancient

0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:02.520
<v Speaker 1>days of humanity. It's us only in relatively recent times

0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:07.280
<v Speaker 1>that we've had a structured system of investigation and experimentation, uh,

0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:10.040
<v Speaker 1>that we actually call science. So should we come up

0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:11.720
<v Speaker 1>with a new term to just sort of merge the

0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:17.960
<v Speaker 1>human and the scientist? I don't know what would that be? Okay,

0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:20.880
<v Speaker 1>uatist sounds good. It sounds a little bit like Hubris.

0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:25.959
<v Speaker 1>But but but I'll accept it. Science the science them

0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:30.480
<v Speaker 1>like science them in the faith. No science and human

0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:32.560
<v Speaker 1>All right. I'll bet you guys out there have better

0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:37.000
<v Speaker 1>recommendations for a word that could encompass all of these ideas.

0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:38.879
<v Speaker 1>And you can let us know by finding us in

0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:40.840
<v Speaker 1>all the usual places where it's Stuff to Blow your

0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:42.960
<v Speaker 1>Mind dot com. That's where we throw all of our

0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:46.240
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0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:49.119
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0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:51.639
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0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:54.280
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0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:56.000
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0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:59.480
<v Speaker 1>us also good old fashioned email, that's right. You can

0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.119
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0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:08.840
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0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:16.920
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