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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: This is Wall Street Week. I'm David Weston bringing you

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Speaker 2: stories of capitalism. This week Tales of Second Acts. Netflix

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Speaker 2: founder Read hastings from the top of his Powder Mountain,

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Speaker 2: where he is building a private ski resort for those

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Speaker 2: looking for a little less traffic on the slopes. But

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Speaker 2: we start with the story of reflection, reflecting back on

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Speaker 2: a time only five short years ago when the coronavirus

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Speaker 2: caused one of the deadliest pandemics in human history. But

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Speaker 2: with the world back to normal, we can now reflect

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Speaker 2: on what has changed, what has not, and how the

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Speaker 2: world can better prepare itself for the next time.

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Speaker 3: I have decided to take several strong but necessary actions

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Speaker 3: to protect the health and well being of all Americans.

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Speaker 3: We have issued guidance on school closures, social distancing, and

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Speaker 3: reducing large gatherings.

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Speaker 2: Most of us remember where we were in mid March

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Speaker 2: of twenty twenty, a time of empty streets, lockdowns, and

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Speaker 2: economic turmoil. The S and P five hundred slumped close

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Speaker 2: to twenty percent in one month. The US economy simply

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Speaker 2: came to a stop almost overnight, and initial jobless claims

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Speaker 2: surged to more than six million in a matter of weeks.

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Speaker 4: This blows away even the forecasts, almost six point seven

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Speaker 4: million this week. It just goes to point out how

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Speaker 4: bad this is for the overall US economy.

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Speaker 5: Well, the global economy, of course, including the US and Europe,

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Speaker 5: got a huge shock.

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Speaker 2: Torsten Slock is Apollo's chief economist.

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Speaker 5: The shock created quite some significant changes for different sectors

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Speaker 5: because when you sut me hat in twenty nineteen that

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Speaker 5: the way the economy was working with services playing a

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Speaker 5: certain role, goods playing a certain role, and from one

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Speaker 5: day to the other, goods played a much much bigger

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Speaker 5: role because we were sitting at home ordering things online

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Speaker 5: and services. We couldn't go out to restaurants, we couldn't

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Speaker 5: go to theme parks, we couldn't travel suddenly got a

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Speaker 5: huge decline. That change, of course, played a significant role

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Speaker 5: in how the economy responded.

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Speaker 2: You can sanitizer two of the sectors affected were travel.

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Speaker 6: Pretty much every aspect of travel change. I mean, it

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Speaker 6: went off a cliff for quite a while.

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Speaker 2: And healthcare.

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Speaker 7: You know, I always say trust is the currency of

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Speaker 7: public health, and right now it's bankrupt.

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Speaker 2: Healthcare was where we all were focused in the spring

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Speaker 2: of twenty twenty. Doctor Charity Dean is now CEO and

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Speaker 2: co founder of the Public Health Company, but in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty she was the assistant director of the California Department

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Speaker 2: of Public Health. She was one of the very first

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Speaker 2: to see COVID nineteen for what it was and could become,

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Speaker 2: and became a major figure in the Michael Lewis book

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Speaker 2: The Premonition, a Pandemic Story.

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Speaker 7: The COVID response was a massive systems failure on every level,

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Speaker 7: across national security, across civilian public health, across the great

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Speaker 7: American companies that hold up our economy. We did not

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Speaker 7: actually have the capabilities to respond to it. And my

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Speaker 7: view of that gets clearer and clearer five years later,

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Speaker 7: as I understand just how deep that devastation was. I

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Speaker 7: still believe that the gift of COVID is it exposed

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Speaker 7: the problems so that we Americans could do what we

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Speaker 7: do best, and that is innovate solutions. I think Americans

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Speaker 7: learned a tough lesson that is, no one's coming to

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Speaker 7: save you.

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Speaker 2: A twenty twenty three Gallup poll found that Americans trust

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Speaker 2: in the medical system fell in the years following COVID

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Speaker 2: from forty four percent in twenty twenty one to thirty

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Speaker 2: four percent two years later.

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Speaker 7: The tension between civil liberties and providing for the common

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Speaker 7: defense of Americans is the oldest tension in public health,

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Speaker 7: as old as our country. For since there were vaccines,

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Speaker 7: there's been the argument over vaccine mandates. I am not

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Speaker 7: afraid of that debate because it's the right debate to have,

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Speaker 7: protecting individual's right to choose versus protecting the whole. I

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Speaker 7: massively support vaccine requirements for kiddos entering public schools. Why

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Speaker 7: because the kids that are vulnerable, they have a right

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Speaker 7: to an education that is safe. They have a right

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Speaker 7: to attend school and not worry they're going to get

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Speaker 7: infected by measles because someone else wasn't vaccinated. Having said that,

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Speaker 7: Americans questioning a vaccine mandate during COVID, I think that's

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Speaker 7: just very American. It's who we are at our core.

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Speaker 7: We're rebels fighting for our freedom, fighting for our individual

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Speaker 7: Liberty's it founded this country. So I'm not afraid of

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Speaker 7: that discussion. And I understand American parents who are hesitant

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Speaker 7: lost faith in public health. All of my kids are vaccinated,

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Speaker 7: and so am I. You know, the question of employer

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Speaker 7: vaccine mandates or military vacks. I will leave that to

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Speaker 7: those more qualified to answer those questions, Secretary Hegseth than

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Speaker 7: others who are running those departments. But I'm not surprised

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Speaker 7: that that became a question in Americans' minds, because it's

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Speaker 7: the right debate to have.

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Speaker 2: Ultimately, we were relieved to some extent from the pandemic

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Speaker 2: by the development of a new vaccine and a new

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Speaker 2: platform for a vaccine. Science really stepped up in the

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Speaker 2: private sector stepped up in the end. Where are we

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Speaker 2: today though on vaccines? That became a political issue in

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Speaker 2: and of itself, and even as today we even new

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Speaker 2: Secretary of Health right is really skeptical of vaccines. We

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Speaker 2: have a measles problem right now because of small children

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Speaker 2: not getting evaculated. Where are we with our confidence in vaccinations?

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Speaker 8: Yeah?

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Speaker 7: I love this topic because it's the juicy one, and

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Speaker 7: most people are afraid to talk about it. The Americans

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Speaker 7: developed a distrust of what they were to from public

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Speaker 7: health officials about the safety of the COVID vaccine, and

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Speaker 7: I understand they want to protect their children and they

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Speaker 7: want to make the best decisions. And for parents, it's

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Speaker 7: hard to do that when you don't know who to trust.

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Speaker 7: But make no mistake, the COVID vaccine saved millions and

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Speaker 7: millions of lives, not because it prevented all infections, but

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Speaker 7: because it prevented people from dying. Instead of dying they

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Speaker 7: got really sick, or instead of getting really sick, they

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Speaker 7: had a minor cough, and so it saved millions of lives.

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Speaker 7: Operation Warp Speed that was led by the first Trump

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Speaker 7: administration is one of the greatest successes of public private

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Speaker 7: collaboration in American history. What they pulled off, that's phenomenal,

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Speaker 7: and I think we can replicate that across a number

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Speaker 7: of areas.

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Speaker 8: How do we restore.

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Speaker 7: Americans trust in what public health officials tell them about vaccines? Transparency,

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Speaker 7: sharing the science, answering the questions.

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Speaker 2: If Americans have struggled to regain their trust in the

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Speaker 2: health health care system, They've shown little trouble rediscovering their

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Speaker 2: zest for travel. TSA checkpoint volume has rebounded to higher

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Speaker 2: levels than before the pandemic. Brian Kelly is the founder

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Speaker 2: of The Points Guy and author of the book How

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Speaker 2: to Win at Travel.

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Speaker 6: There were multiple days in twenty twenty four where there

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Speaker 6: were over three million passengers going through the tsa record

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Speaker 6: setting numbers. I think the biggest thing is business travel.

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Speaker 6: There was such a huge block of Monday to Thursday

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Speaker 6: consultants and salespeople and traveling for every meeting via plane,

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Speaker 6: and that has not returned. Now business travel has returned

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Speaker 6: in different ways and more conferences, but that has impacted

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Speaker 6: pricing because the consumer. Throughout the pandemic, there were amazing

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Speaker 6: deals to get premium economy and get a taste of

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Speaker 6: business class at a fraction of the cost. And I

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Speaker 6: think what happened is consumers got used to sitting up

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Speaker 6: front at those discounted rates, and now that those rates

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Speaker 6: have come up, they're still not as high is what

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Speaker 6: they used to charge business travelers. So consumers are taking

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Speaker 6: fewer trips but spending a lot more. That's one of

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Speaker 6: the biggest trends. We've seen the re emergence of multi

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Speaker 6: generational family trips where people are spending a lot. Even

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Speaker 6: though there has been a call back to office, so

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Speaker 6: many people still have those flexible work environments and are

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Speaker 6: working from abroad. So while traditional business travel has not

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Speaker 6: bounced back at the same levels, it just looks different

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Speaker 6: these days.

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Speaker 2: While the pandemic changed the way the consumer traveled. It

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Speaker 2: also changed the way companies operate, such as hotels.

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Speaker 6: Many mid tier hotels have gotten rid of daily housekeeping

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Speaker 6: and gotten rid of room service and stocking mini bars.

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Speaker 6: You know, originally those were cut in the name of safety,

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Speaker 6: but I think a lot of that is actually out

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Speaker 6: of cost cutting. A lot of the industry saw an

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Speaker 6: opportunity to cut back on their services that they offer

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Speaker 6: and get consumers used to it. You know, at the

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Speaker 6: highest end of luxury there has been pushed back and

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Speaker 6: you know from my experience staying at ultra five star hotels,

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Speaker 6: things are even better pre pandemic, But in that three

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Speaker 6: and four star hotel, they have gotten consumers use to

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Speaker 6: not getting daily housekeeping or at least having to request

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Speaker 6: it in the name of safety. And it has shown

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Speaker 6: that hotel companies are doing incredible They're all growing at

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Speaker 6: rapid rates.

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Speaker 2: Kelly says the growing push to require workers to return

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Speaker 2: to the office will only help business travel, but Slock

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Speaker 2: warns there's still a long way to go. If we

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Speaker 2: go back five years, almost all of us were working

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Speaker 2: from home, something that I don't know we'd thought about before.

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Speaker 2: How much to change the working patterns and the uses

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Speaker 2: of offices and getting together in the office place.

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Speaker 5: And this is really important today in particular for commercial

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Speaker 5: estate an office, including here in Manhattan, because there are

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Speaker 5: studies by Nick Bloom, who's a professor at Stanford, who

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Speaker 5: shows that today, if you look at the data, we

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Speaker 5: still only have fifty percent of the work week, meaning

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Speaker 5: and the office relative to what we had in twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 5: So that's another way of saying that when you measure

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Speaker 5: how many people swipe their cards going into office buildings,

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Speaker 5: not only in Manhattan but across the country, you have

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Speaker 5: that we are still only an occupant to rate on

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Speaker 5: a weekly basis, that is fifty percent of what it

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Speaker 5: was in twenty nineteen. And that has had indications for

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Speaker 5: if we don't come as much into the office, of course,

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Speaker 5: then we don't go and eat lunch in the middle

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Speaker 5: of the day. We don't at the same time commute.

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Speaker 5: Therefore we don't use public transportation. So measures of public transportation,

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Speaker 5: including in New York City, are still only for example,

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Speaker 5: subway usage, it's only around two thirds of where it

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Speaker 5: was in twenty nineteen. So working from home has definitely

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Speaker 5: changed in a lot of different ways, and there's also

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Speaker 5: a huge blossoming academic literature about does that mean that

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Speaker 5: productivity is lower or does it actually mean that productivity is.

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Speaker 2: Higher, Whether working from home is more productive or less productive,

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Speaker 2: it does affect employment in all the business's ancillary to

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Speaker 2: the office buildings, So there are employment ratifications of working from.

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Speaker 5: Home absolutely, and that's also why you have seen a

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Speaker 5: shift also on a sixer bases there that there's still

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Speaker 5: some challenges exactly in everything. If you use to buy

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Speaker 5: something when you're to work, then people just now at

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Speaker 5: home all day long and they're not having lunch, they're

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Speaker 5: maybe not shopping the same patterns that day before, maybe

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Speaker 5: they buy things more online, which is exactly what all

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Speaker 5: the trends are showing. It is the case also that

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Speaker 5: now it's more possible for people to get a job remotely.

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Speaker 5: So that's why if you look at some of the

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Speaker 5: job openings, they have been putting more in the postings

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Speaker 5: that there is much more significant now number of job

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Speaker 5: posting that's asked for. Job can also be done remotely.

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Speaker 2: But it wasn't just different sectors that were affected in

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Speaker 2: different ways. It was different countries too.

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Speaker 9: I would say there was just a good old fashioned

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Speaker 9: policy mistake.

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Speaker 10: Sweden was the odd man out during the pandemic.

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Speaker 2: And that is where we turn next, from New Zealand

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Speaker 2: to Sweden. Countries pursued very different strategies in responding to

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Speaker 2: the pandemic. Where has that left them five years later?

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Speaker 2: That's next on Wall Street Week. When COVID nineteen hit

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Speaker 2: five years ago, cities and states and entire countries simply

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Speaker 2: shut down schools, businesses, public events. But not every government

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Speaker 2: took the same approach. Some what a very different way.

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Speaker 3: I will soon be taken emergency action which is unprecedented

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Speaker 3: to provide financial relief.

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Speaker 9: We will close our border to any non residents and

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Speaker 9: citizens attempting to travel here.

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Speaker 6: You're not telling people to stay indoors.

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Speaker 2: Tourist and slock is Apollo's chief economist. Looking back on it,

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Speaker 2: can we see that one worked better than the other?

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Speaker 5: Well, I do think we can conclude now. Of course,

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Speaker 5: we all had to make sure that the health was

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Speaker 5: the number one priority, But there were certainly also different countries,

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Speaker 5: including New Zealand and Sweden, that also took different approaches

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Speaker 5: and therefore ended up having also different outcomes. And it

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Speaker 5: has generally been the case today now that we know

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Speaker 5: that the pandemic quote unquote only lasted for somewhat limited time,

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Speaker 5: that it did turn out to be a better situation

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Speaker 5: to have allowed more flexibility and not be so rigid

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Speaker 5: in terms of what the health restrictions were.

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Speaker 2: Sweden is one that took that less restrictive approach, avoiding

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Speaker 2: lockdown measures and letting people decide for themselves, an approach

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Speaker 2: that was ridiculed around the world.

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Speaker 10: As a Swede, I felt quite attacked and harassed during

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Speaker 10: the pandemic, and both foreign friends and media constantly got

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Speaker 10: in touch asking me, are you all crazy over there

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Speaker 10: in Sweden? And we got it from I mean from

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Speaker 10: all sides of the political spectrum as well, people saying

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Speaker 10: that Sweden's a cautionary tale. I read that in the

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Speaker 10: New York Times, and President Donald Trump at the time

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Speaker 10: said that, look, Sweden is suffering tremendously. Hundreds of thousands

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Speaker 10: of Americans would die if we do what the Swedes do.

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Speaker 10: So we were basically not very popular at that time,

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Speaker 10: and it felt like we had to defend ourselves. I

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Speaker 10: think many people had invested interest in explaining the Swedish

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Speaker 10: model a failure before we saw the.

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Speaker 2: Results, and the results, as it turned out, were better

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Speaker 2: than expected. Johann Norberg is a senior fellow at the

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Speaker 2: Cato Institute. His report on Sweden's pandemic response found that

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Speaker 2: we're models forecast a death toll of more than eighty

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Speaker 2: thousand by July twenty twenty. Sweden had suffered fewer than

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Speaker 2: six thousand by that point.

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Speaker 10: Other aspect is what is what the Swedish Public Health

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Speaker 10: Agency said, Yes, we might have more cases and deaths

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Speaker 10: early on in Sweden, but this will even out in

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Speaker 10: the long run, because no country can completely shut itself

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Speaker 10: off unless they're a tiny island far away from everything.

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Speaker 10: And this is exactly what happened. If you look at

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Speaker 10: total cumulative excess deaths during the whole pandemic period, Sweden

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Speaker 10: came out with one of the lowest excess death rates

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Speaker 10: all over Europe and less than half of the excess

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Speaker 10: death rate of Britain and the United States. So I

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Speaker 10: think in the end, when we look at the numbers,

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Speaker 10: when we look at the data, I think even some

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Speaker 10: of the opponents of the Swedish model would say that, yeah,

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Speaker 10: we didn't risk people's lives. In fact, it worked out

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Speaker 10: better than in most other rich countries.

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Speaker 2: Half a world away. New Zealand took yet a third approach.

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Speaker 2: It locked down its borders and implemented strict lockdown measures

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Speaker 2: to avoid community transmission. Suffering just twenty five deaths from

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Speaker 2: COVID in twenty twenty, but it meant the country was

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Speaker 2: effectively shut off from the rest of the world. Sharon

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Speaker 2: Zohlner is the chief economist for New Zealand at ANZ Bank.

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Speaker 9: It was chaos when COVID first had, of course, like

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Speaker 9: it was everywhere, massive uncertainty about what was going to happen.

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Speaker 9: We saw a crash in business confidence, We saw monetary

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Speaker 9: policy ease dramatically, and of course we had the.

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Speaker 11: Wage subsidies rolled out very quickly.

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Speaker 9: Of course, inevitably it was a bit slap dash, but

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Speaker 9: I think probably the single biggest forecasting mistake we all made,

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Speaker 9: the government, the Reserve Bank, private sector was underestimating just

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Speaker 9: how effective.

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Speaker 11: Those wage subsidies were going to be. Essentially, we were thinking.

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Speaker 9: Of COVID as primarily a big negative shock to demand,

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Speaker 9: that it was going to destroy confidence, that we were

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Speaker 9: at risk of a depression.

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Speaker 11: God of course, the GDP numbers were all over the place.

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Speaker 9: You hit pause on an economy and you get crazy

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Speaker 9: things like a GDP falling twenty percent in a quarter.

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Speaker 9: But what we learned ultimately was that those numbers didn't

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Speaker 9: mean anything. All our models saying if GDP does this,

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Speaker 9: then house prices will do that, or GDP does that employment,

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Speaker 9: this will happen to employment, they all broke immediately, of course,

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Speaker 9: because this wasn't a normal slowdown in GDP. It was

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Speaker 9: an artificial stop and then a restart, and then a

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Speaker 9: stop and then a restart. The data, of course, was pandemonium,

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Speaker 9: and it was easy with hindsight to spot the mistakes

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Speaker 9: that were made. But essentially it boils down to diagnosing

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Speaker 9: COVID as primarily a demand shock.

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Speaker 11: It was not.

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Speaker 9: It was primarily a supply shock once you take into

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Speaker 9: account the wage subsidy.

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Speaker 11: So essentially people were sitting at home.

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Speaker 9: They figured out that their jobs were safe, they worked

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Speaker 9: out that they were very bored, and the interest rates

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Speaker 9: were the lowest we've ever seen. The housing markets started

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Speaker 9: to take off and everyone went internet shopping, and we

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Speaker 9: saw as well as just a surgeon demand, we saw

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Speaker 9: a big substitution from services to goods, so you couldn't

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Speaker 9: go on holiday to Fiji, so you got a SPA instead.

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Speaker 2: New Zealand spent close to twenty billion dollars between twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty and twenty twenty one in a wage subsidy program

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Speaker 2: that supported forty seven percent of its jobs.

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Speaker 9: The first lockdowns were incredibly expensive, of course, the fiscal policy,

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Speaker 9: but they were hugely successful. They bought us a year

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Speaker 9: of normality that other economies didn't have. But I would

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Speaker 9: say there was just a good old fashioned policy mistake

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Speaker 9: from Firstcoo policy and Mountrey policy.

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Speaker 11: If you look at First School policy.

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Speaker 9: Other countries also went all out with the wage subsidies

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Speaker 9: and a big surgeon spending, but then they wound it

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Speaker 9: back very quick.

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Speaker 11: We didn't.

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Speaker 9: We didn't have to because our government debt was very

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Speaker 9: low to start with in an international comparison. We also

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Speaker 9: had a left leaning government. They had pre funded using

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Speaker 9: that long long large scale asset programs. They had money

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Speaker 9: sitting there saying what shall I do with this? And

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Speaker 9: they had a very very ambitious reform program and a

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Speaker 9: whole lot of areas nothing to do with COVID. So

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Speaker 9: the fiscal policy remained extremely expansionary four years. So at

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Speaker 9: the same time that the private sector demand was very

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Speaker 9: very strong because of the super low interest rates, and

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Speaker 9: so we had pro cyclical fiscal policy. We had Mountree

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Speaker 9: and fiscal policy ultimately working against each other. Once you know,

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Speaker 9: Montree policy is a lot quicker to turn, and so

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Speaker 9: the reserve banks like oops, okay, Inflation is an awful

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Speaker 9: lot higher than we thought. The economy is actually a

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Speaker 9: lot more overheated than we thought. We need to change direction.

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Speaker 9: Fiscal policies are much much slower ship to turn, even

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Speaker 9: if all your weight's on the wheel, and it wasn't.

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Speaker 11: So essentially, for quite a long period.

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Speaker 9: You had monte and fiscal policy working against each other.

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Speaker 9: Of course, we've had a doozy of a recession. We've

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Speaker 9: had a very large recession last year, so fiscal policy

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Speaker 9: has also started to turn, but we're still forecasting.

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Speaker 11: Deficits on all the metrics for years to come. So essentially,

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Speaker 11: the main.

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Speaker 9: Difference between the economy before COVID and now is that

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Speaker 9: our government debt is broadly doubled. So it still looks

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Speaker 9: quite reasonable in an international comparison, but our entire country

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Speaker 9: is built on a fault line. There's nowhere in New

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Speaker 9: Zealand that is really safe from that risk, and then

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Speaker 9: we've got more extreme weather happening as well, and we've

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Speaker 9: got an infrastructure deficit, we've got an aging population like everywhere,

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Speaker 9: so we've got some significant medium term fiscal challenges.

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Speaker 2: COVID eventually did break through New Zealand's borders in early

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, and the death toll spiked just as

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Speaker 2: other countries like Sweden were emerging from the worst of it.

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Speaker 10: Sweden is a small and very trade dependent country, so

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Speaker 10: when the rest of the world suffers and locks down,

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Speaker 10: the Swedish economy suffers two But the decline in Sweden

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Speaker 10: was much more shallow than in other places, and the

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Speaker 10: recovery was much quicker. Interestingly, when we looked at the

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Speaker 10: end of twenty twenty one where economies were compared to

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Speaker 10: the forecasts before the pandemic, then we could see that

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Speaker 10: by the end of twenty twenty one, the world economy

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Speaker 10: was three percent smaller than forecasts that expected. The UR

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Speaker 10: economy was bit more than two percent smaller, the US

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Speaker 10: economy was one point two percent smaller. The Swedish economy

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Speaker 10: was actually zero point four percent bigger than the forecasts

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Speaker 10: from the oezed the IMF expected before the pandemic, So

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Speaker 10: it tells you that my staying open, by not shutting

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Speaker 10: down society, we save the economy.

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Speaker 2: In the end, it may be hard to be sure

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Speaker 2: which of the range of approaches worked better than others.

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Speaker 2: We'd all rather forget about the pain and uncertainty of

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Speaker 2: five years ago, which may make it hard to anticipate

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Speaker 2: the next one and know which way to go.

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Speaker 10: During the pandemic era, we had more attention paid to

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Speaker 10: Sweden than ever before, I think, and I was constantly

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Speaker 10: asked about what was going on in Sweden, But afterwards

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Speaker 10: not a sound Very few got in touch to see

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Speaker 10: what actually happened, and you're actually one of the few

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Speaker 10: media companies who get in touch to think about. Okay,

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Speaker 10: we all thought that Swedenes were crazy and that everything

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Speaker 10: was going to the dogs. Now five years later, what

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Speaker 10: really happened. You would think that that would be of

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Speaker 10: interest to people, but seems like we just want to

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Speaker 10: forget and move on.

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Speaker 7: More bad, spooky stuff as possible today than ever before.

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Speaker 7: But so is the tooling. I am surrounded by a

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Speaker 7: tribe of people, public servants, some of whom are in government,

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Speaker 7: some of whom are out of government, who are working

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Speaker 7: on building those solutions today, for defense, for health, security,

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Speaker 7: for intelligence, and I am ever full of hope.

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Speaker 2: Coming up, we tell the stories of two very different

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Speaker 2: second acts from highly successful CEOs, starting with Netflix founder

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Speaker 2: Read Hastings and how his quest for smaller crowds on

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Speaker 2: the ski slopes led him to buy an entire mountain.

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Speaker 2: This is a story about second acts, something f Scott

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Speaker 2: Fitzgerald said didn't exist in American lives, but something successful

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Speaker 2: CEOs are pursuing with gusto. Every year, tens of millions

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Speaker 2: of people flocked to hundreds of slopes across the country

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Speaker 2: to satisfy the leg workout they crave all summer long.

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Speaker 2: In the twenty twenty three to twenty four ski season,

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Speaker 2: over sixty million people went skiing and snowboarding across the country,

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Speaker 2: a growth of seven percent over ten years. And as

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Speaker 2: the sport has become more accessible through multi mountain passes

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Speaker 2: and climate change shortens the length of the ski season,

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Speaker 2: more experienced skiers and snowboarders are craving exclusivity.

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Speaker 8: And there's five thousand acres through.

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Speaker 2: Here, something real. Hastings decided to do something about.

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Speaker 8: We're at Powder Mountain. It's ten thousand acres of skiing,

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Speaker 8: one of the largest resorts in the world. Half of

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Speaker 8: it roughly is public and half of it is Powver

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Speaker 8: Haven or a private skiing resort. And it's been tremendously

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Speaker 8: exciting these last two years to be putting this together.

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Speaker 2: You might recognize Hastings from his twenty five year tenure

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Speaker 2: as CEO of Netflix. He joined the board of Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: LP in October of twenty twenty three. Hastings started Netflix

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Speaker 2: back in nineteen ninety seven, growing it from a DVD

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Speaker 2: rental service with two hundred and seventy thousand dollars in

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Speaker 2: annual revenue its first year into a global streaming giant,

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Speaker 2: bringing in thirty three point seven billion dollars. When he

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Speaker 2: stepped down in twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 8: David, we're one of the areas that is a new

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Speaker 8: neighborhood coming. So it's beautiful, aspens, incredible views. There'll be

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Speaker 8: thirty seven lots here. That's our land.

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Speaker 2: But through it all, Hastings maintained his passion for skiing.

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Speaker 2: When did you first ski? Where did you find your

441
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 2: love of skiing?

442
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,199
Speaker 8: Well, I was fortunate that my mom was a skier

443
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 8: and so we skied most years as a Christmas vacation.

444
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 8: But I wasn't a hardcore I wasn't a ski racer,

445
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 8: wasn't all of that. And that was up until I

446
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 8: was twenty or so, and then my twenties that didn't ski,

447
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,919
Speaker 8: and then forties and fifties we had kids and we

448
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 8: had a place in Park City, so that was tremendous.

449
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 8: But again I was, you know, full time in Netflix,

450
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 8: so it was maybe ten days a year of skiing.

451
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 8: What had happened in Park City is long lines, big crowds,

452
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 8: no powder. So we moved here, which is about an

453
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 8: hour away.

454
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 2: Do you remember the first time you came to Powder?

455
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 8: Yeah? Absolutely, It was Christmas in twenty sixteen. Super crowded

456
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 8: in Park City, drove over here and then it was

457
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 8: just wide open, incredible powder. We fell in love with uncrowded,

458
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 8: the high altitude which keeps the snow very good, in

459
00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 8: the community, very warm and generous. Retired from Netflix and

460
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 8: then invested in Powder and eventually started running it.

461
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 2: You heard that right, Reed love the mountains so much

462
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 2: he bought it. The Netflix tycoon is now taking on

463
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 2: a new challenge, building and partially privatizing a ski resort

464
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 2: community after identifying a part of the market he thought

465
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 2: wasn't being served.

466
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,719
Speaker 8: You're only really making a difference when you're changing the rules.

467
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 8: At Powder were the first one to be fusing private

468
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 8: club skiing and public skiing together. In golf, about twenty

469
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 8: five percent of US golf courses four and sixteen thousand

470
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 8: are private, and that's because you get better tea times,

471
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 8: you get a clubhouse, social interaction. Sometimes they're residential, sometimes not.

472
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 8: But in skiing it's really just been Yellowstone Club and

473
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 8: Wasuchpeaks Ranch. So we're only the third out of five hundred,

474
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 8: so as tremendous demand as people moved to the subscription

475
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 8: club orientation. So changing the ski industry is something that's

476
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 8: the next big challenge.

477
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 2: There was an attempt here on Powder Mount before, which

478
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 2: I think brought you here originally. Why did that one

479
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 2: fail and why is this one different?

480
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 8: You know, that was all public skiing and it's very

481
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 8: difficult to compete with Epic and Icon. Those are really

482
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 8: the transformative forces for high crowded, low cost resorts, and

483
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 8: Powder tried to differentiate but did not have the private skiing.

484
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 8: So I was here just as a member or as

485
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 8: a homeowner and then post Netflix, I had the time

486
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 8: and I had the capital fortunately to really do this transformation.

487
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 2: How do you grow this business?

488
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 8: You know, if I was younger, I might be tempted

489
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 8: to try to replicate this and do in every city

490
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 8: of the Union. But for me, we're just going to

491
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 8: build a one incredible boutique. It's a real estate business.

492
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 8: And the difference here is when the owner operator lives

493
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 8: in the community, it's really driven from the community. So

494
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 8: that's true of Yellowstone, it's true of Powder. We're building

495
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 8: up the clubhouse and the club restaurant and building a

496
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 8: lodge and doing other things to make it so you

497
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 8: can spend a long.

498
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 2: Time Hastings as a real estate team devoted to the mountain.

499
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 2: The first phase of a five to ten year project.

500
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 8: We're really upgrading everything. We expanded land to be able

501
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 8: to fit both a fantastic private skiing experience. And private

502
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 8: skiing is six hundred families get to enjoy five thousand acres.

503
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 8: I mean, it's fantastic. You know, all the people on

504
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 8: the lift because of the clebbiness, there's untracked powdered days

505
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 8: after the last storm. It's fantastic. And then also to

506
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 8: have a really vibrant public resort and we're building that

507
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 8: up over the next five ten years and really to

508
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 8: make powder a sense of curated beauty where art plays

509
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 8: a major role, and so it's the crossover of people

510
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 8: who are enhanced and inspired by art as well as

511
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 8: love the adrenaline of skiing.

512
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 12: So the powder Haven development phasing is at its early infancy.

513
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 12: Although Powder Mountain has been around for over fifty years,

514
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 12: this private portion of the development is really quite new

515
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 12: and we are just starting releasing those units and those

516
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 12: lots right now.

517
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 2: Brooke Hunts is the chief Development and construction officer at

518
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 2: Powder Haven. The exclusive private ski in ski out community

519
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 2: at Powder Mountain.

520
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 12: Powdered Mountain caters to all types of skiers and snowboarders,

521
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 12: from first time skiers through expert who have a passion

522
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 12: and an enjoyment of really the sport in its kind

523
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 12: of more natural forms because currently on the mountain we

524
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 12: have not a lot of amenities and it's more of

525
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 12: a natural what skiing used to be and what people

526
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 12: a lot of people, particularly those with megapasses, say that's

527
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 12: what I love about skiing.

528
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 11: So people that.

529
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 12: Buy into Powder Mountain as a part of the club

530
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 12: will be able to share their homes with others through

531
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 12: an internal rental program. So if you're a guest or

532
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 12: an owner at Powder Mountain, you would be able to

533
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 12: rent sort of take part in a lease program with

534
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 12: other owners, but otherwise know that the membership is closed.

535
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 2: Taking Powder private, even in part, has not been without controversy,

536
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 2: with one snowboarder who's used the public resort for years

537
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 2: telling the Hollywood Reporter that quote, what is happening at

538
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 2: Powder Mountain is awful because of the partial exclusivity. Are

539
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 2: you losing any skiers who really miss the pure public

540
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 2: part of it?

541
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 8: Probably? You know, it's inevitable that as we change and

542
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 8: add private is going to lose some. But we've made

543
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 8: a big effort to really embrace, to increase compensation for

544
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 8: all the employees. Open up inexpensive nineteen it's nineteen dollars

545
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 8: to ski from four to nine pm. Super popular, you

546
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 8: know in the local high school, that kind of thing.

547
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 8: So you know, we're making big investments in staying accessible

548
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 8: and open for.

549
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 2: People, and other longtime Powder skis like Larry Wolf say

550
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 2: it's worth it.

551
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 13: I think it's a win win. He's made a lot

552
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 13: of improvements that I'm very pleased with. For example, he

553
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 13: said he was going to put in four new lifts

554
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 13: in a year, and he put in four new lifts

555
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 13: in a year. So we now have access to terrain

556
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 13: that was only typically available through a cat skiing or skinning.

557
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 13: You al turnative being owned by large corporations or owned

558
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 13: by people who don't get it. I would ruin the place,

559
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 13: and I think he gets it, and it keeps the

560
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 13: flavor and the spirit of Powder Mountain alive.

561
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 12: The opportunity here is so different and unique. Not only

562
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 12: are we at a slightly different price point than other

563
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 12: private skiing, our skiing is more massive in terms of

564
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 12: sheer magnitude of acreage, but we also have a wide

565
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 12: variety of ability levels. And you're at the top of

566
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 12: the mountain almost all of the day, versus continuing to

567
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 12: return to the bottom every time you finish your day

568
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 12: or start your day. You're doing that at the top

569
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 12: to see sunrise and sunset. I think the inclusion of

570
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 12: the art installation and how unique that is in the

571
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 12: world of skiing and resort, makes us more creative and

572
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 12: hopefully interesting to people.

573
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 2: That type of creativity ultimately reflects Hastings from media mogul

574
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 2: to ski resort oracle. He has drawn from his past

575
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 2: life to pursue his second act, this time without the

576
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 2: same pressure to maximize the bottom line.

577
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 8: But we don't want to be cookie cutter.

578
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 2: And you are investing a lot capital investment into lifts,

579
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 2: facilities here and things like that. How does the money flow?

580
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 2: How do you cover that cost? Well?

581
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 8: When I think about it, I think of sports teams,

582
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 8: and I think of Steve Cohen and the Mets, or

583
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 8: Ryan Smith with a jazz or my friends Steve Bomber

584
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 8: with the Clippers, and that's big money. In comparison, it's

585
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 8: not so much, not as big an investment, but I

586
00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 8: think it's similar for them. It's an expression of joy

587
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 8: and passion and winning and making a contribution to the public.

588
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 8: And for me it's the same kind of thing, but

589
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 8: it's more against skiing instead of those teams. And then

590
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 8: we make money by selling season passes and we make

591
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 8: money by selling real estate. Those are the two big

592
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 8: revenue generators. The value in the long term is unclear

593
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,760
Speaker 8: because other ski mountains haven't had that same track record,

594
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 8: But I would say we're investing, you know, to really

595
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 8: make it a spectacular community experience.

596
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 2: So obviously when you built Netflix, it must have been

597
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 2: all consuming. Does this engage you to the same level?

598
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,240
Speaker 2: Are you as consumers to this as you were with Netflix?

599
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 8: You know, it's different muscles. Netflix was super analytics, super

600
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 8: internet scale strategy. This is more about caring and intimacy

601
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 8: and making people feel good and boutique. So it's a

602
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 8: different skill set. Let's kind of think what makes it fun.

603
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 8: I wouldn't want to go back and try to do

604
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 8: another high scale internet company. How am I ever going

605
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 8: to do better than Netflix? So this is in a

606
00:34:58,600 --> 00:34:59,760
Speaker 8: completely different realm.

607
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 2: Do you have the same sense of purpose about Powder

608
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 2: Mountain as you did about something like Netflix.

609
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 8: It's a very strong sense of purpose to create a

610
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 8: place of incredible beauty that sparks wonder and that people

611
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 8: are talking about for one hundred years. So think of

612
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 8: it as a physical legacy rather than a brand like

613
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 8: Netflix legacy. Part of Netflix success was a very unique

614
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 8: culture that really focused on the high talent people and

615
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 8: giving them freedom to operate. And I have brought that

616
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 8: culture here to Powder Mountain and so for the employees,

617
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 8: it's an incredible opportunity to thrive and to get freedom

618
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 8: and to have responsibility. A difference is it's much more

619
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 8: emphasizing love and emotion and connection, back to the intimacy.

620
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 8: Netflix was around super performance, and Powder is around connection

621
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 8: and sparking wonder we call it.

622
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 2: That does it for us. Here on Wall Street Week,

623
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 2: I'm David Weston. See you next week for more stories

624
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 2: of capitalism