WEBVTT - Mike Pence Talks Tariffs, Russia/Ukraine War 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.400 Joining us now for reaction to that and much more 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:05.240 employes to say, is the former Vice President of the 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:08.239 United States, Mike Pence. Vice President Pence, thank you so 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:09.560 much for being here. 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:10.960 Thank you both for having me on. 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:13.440 I want to start with one of these top stories 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:15.160 that we're following today, which has to do with the 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:18.880 pressure campaign from the White House when it comes to 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:22.239 the Federal Reserve. And now you told Bloomberg Television last 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:24.040 month that the President ought to be able to express 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:25.880 himself when it comes. 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:26.479 To the FED. 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:28.600 But I want to get your thoughts on these latest 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:32.360 allegations against FED Governor Lisa Cook. What's your level of 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:35.400 concern now with that all when it comes to central 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:39.479 bank independence as we see the scrutiny Widen Well, certainly. 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:42.680 I think it'd be appropriate for Lisa Cook to respond 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:44.880 to the allegations that have been made. I know the 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:48.879 President's called on her to resign, but she has a 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:50.360 right to defend herself. 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:50.600 I do. 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:52.600 I did read today that. 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:57.560 Federal Home Loan has found more than twenty two thousand 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:02.440 Americans that have filed mortgages, aims, and two residences at 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:05.679 the same time, and so I think she should answer 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:07.720 for that. Have a chance to answer for it. But 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:12.000 what I hope is that the effort to push out 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:15.000 another member of the Federal Reserve isn't just simply part 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:18.840 and parcel of an effort to get Jerome Powell, who 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:23.920 our administration appointed as a Federal Reserve chair to to 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:27.399 lower interest rates or otherwise take action that that would 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:32.600 not otherwise be justified. I understand the President's frustration with 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:34.480 Chairman Powell, and he's. 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:35.920 Entitled to speak out about that. 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:39.920 But my hope is that these latest allegations are not 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:45.160 simply part of that overall pressure campaign and can be 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:48.520 given and afforded the due process that they deserve. 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:52.200 Mister Vice President, we'd like to turn to another topic 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:55.320 we've been covering very closely this week, of course, that 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:58.400 is the question of the President's effort to end the 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:02.480 war in Ukraine through a settlement between Voladimir Zelenski, the 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:05.440 president of Ukraine, and his Russian counterpart. 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:07.600 You have met Vladimir. 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:10.600 Putin before, do you believe that President Trump is perhaps 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:13.240 putting too much trust in the Russian leader and his 0:02:13.360 --> 0:02:14.480 willingness to end the war. 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:19.560 Well, I haven't met Vladimir Putin, and it's clear to 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:25.120 me that Putin doesn't want peace. Putin wants Ukraine. And 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:31.160 I commend President Trump for continuing to pursue peace in 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:36.320 Ukraine today he is quite frankly surrounded by a lot 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:39.720 of isolationist voices in and outside the administration that frankly 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:43.480 would have cut Ukraine off a long time ago. And 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:46.639 so I'm grateful to President has stayed after it. I'm 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:50.639 grateful that he renewed military support, and I commend him 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:53.720 for meeting with President Putin and meeting with President Zelenski 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:56.280 and our European allies. But Michael, I think one thing 0:02:56.360 --> 0:03:00.880 is missing, and that is I believe the time has 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:04.960 come for the United States Senate to enact those strong 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:09.640 secondary sanctions against Russia and send them to the President's desk. 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:13.959 I believe that would strengthen the president's hand. With a 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:17.760 waiver authority are that are built into those sanctions, the 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:19.400 President could implement them or. 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:21.079 Not implement as he saw fit. 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:26.360 But my deep conviction, having studied Vladimir Putin and having 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:28.840 spoken to him and told him things he didn't want 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:32.959 to hear, Putin's not going to stop until he stopped. 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:36.880 So while the President continues, on one hand, on a 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:41.240 vigorous track of diplomacy. I think the time has come 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:43.760 for the US Senate to put on the President's desk 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:46.920 those strong secondary sanctions that will make it clear to 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:51.960 Vladimir Putin and to the Russians that unless they choose 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:55.480 the pathway of peace through diplomacy, we will continue to 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.160 provide military support and we will pass the kind of 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.080 secondary sanctions that will literally break their economy. 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:01.760 What about so. 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:05.000 Called secondary tariffs against China? Would you be in favor 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:08.600 of the administration moving towards that against Beijing, like we've 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:11.440 seen them take against India, even if some of the 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:13.880 argument has been that they haven't done that yet because 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.040 they don't want to risk the trade talks that are 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:17.279 happening right now with China. 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:20.760 Well, I have to tell you that the secondary sanctions 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:25.000 against China and other countries that are essentially fueling the 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:29.560 Russian war machine, sanctions that five hundred percent would have 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:32.640 a devastating effect on the Russian economy. 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:33.480 Now, I have. 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:38.120 Plenty of reasons to support strong tariffs against China. During 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:41.839 our administration, we changed the national consensus on China. We 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:44.280 imposed two hundred and fifty billion dollars in tariffs, and 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:47.680 we brought China to the negotiating table for that Phase 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:51.880 one trade deal in twenty twenty. So I think we 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:54.800 have to be really strong on China after years of 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:58.159 trade abuses. But otherwise, I believe we ought to be 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:00.640 pursuing free trade with free nations. We ought not to 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:04.359 be We ought not to be cheering on one hundred 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:07.640 and fifty billion dollars in tariff for revenue that's ultimately 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:11.760 paid by American consumers and American businesses. But rather we 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:14.719 ought to be looking to lower tariffs with free nations 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:17.480 around the world. Even while we stand firm with places 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:18.719 like China. 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:20.240 We do want to get to trade. But I have 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:22.599 one other for you when it comes to Russia, because 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:24.840 a large part of the discussion this week has been 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:28.200 around security guarantees. But we've had reporting here at Bloomberg 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:31.560 News that there are doubts growing about what those guarantees 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:33.960 can look like because Russia wants to have a say 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.400 in what those guarantees are going to be. What is 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:40.440 feasible in your view? What can the US push for 0:05:40.600 --> 0:05:45.039 here when it comes to guaranteeing Ukraine's future, particularly when 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:47.880 we know that this will likely be led first by Europe, 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:49.960 but then with the United States backing. 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:54.560 Well, the President's taken NATO membership off the table, which 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:58.680 he's entitled to do. But I don't know why the 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:03.760 United States has given the Russians veto authority over who 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:08.120 joins NATO. That's our security alliance. But be that as 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:13.479 it may, I think the security commitments that we should 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:17.080 make should reflect NATO. They should be in a sense 0:06:18.839 --> 0:06:22.520 like Article five, where the United States provides whatever's appropriate, 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:26.560 not boots on the ground, but the kind of strategic 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:31.760 support that's necessary to ensure that once Vladimir Putin has 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:34.560 stopped that he doesn't go forward at all. 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:35.760 If I can come back. 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:39.159 The reason I'm so confident and so adamant about the 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:42.560 Senate needing to move these secondary sanctions is because it 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:51.440 was back in twenty nineteen that President Airdawan sent the 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:56.760 tanks across the border into Syria. They were raging down 0:06:56.880 --> 0:07:01.400 on top of our Kurdish allies, and President Trump put 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:03.200 me on a plane on Air Force two and sent 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:06.599 me to Turkey to negotiate a ceasefire. And what I 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:10.040 would tell you and your viewers is in that negotiation 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:14.080 with President Airdiwan, what was persuasive to him was the 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:17.520 fact that President Trump had given me a series of 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:21.320 sanctions that would be imposed on members of Air Dewan's 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:25.760 government unless he agreed to a ceasefire to allow us 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:29.760 to evacuate our allies from the border region. As you remember, 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:34.120 we secured that ceasefire, our Kurdish allies were able to 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:38.000 evacuate safely. And that's why I really do believe that 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:41.680 it would strengthen President Trump's hand if when the Senate 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:44.280 comes back, one of their first acts would be to 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:48.360 send those those secondary sanctions, that tough bill to the 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:51.600 President's desk, let him sign it, implement it at his 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:54.840 choosing with the waiver authority. But I really do believe 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:56.360 that at the end of the day, we've got to 0:07:56.440 --> 0:08:00.160 we've got to have that hand reach out in diplomacy 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:04.640 and negotiations, but the other hand, reminding, reminding Vladimir Putin 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:07.840 and the Russians that there will be severe consequences, as 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:11.120 the President said, there would be if the path of 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:12.239 diplomacy fails. 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:14.800 It's the Vice president we wanted to move on to 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:20.360 domestic politics and those questions, and that includes redistricting. It's 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:22.760 been a big topic this week, of course, with what's 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:26.920 happening in Texas and California. As a former Indiana governor, 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:30.040 we do support that happening in the Hoosier State and 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:32.920 what will be the long term implications of this wave 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:34.679 to redrun congressional maps. 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:38.040 Well, Michael, as a former Indiana governor, I'll support with 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:42.400 the current Indiana governor decides as appropriate with our General Assembly. 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:46.240 You know, the Constitution gives the states the authority to 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:49.400 set the time, place, and manner of elections, and I 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:57.680 respect that. I also understand the frustration that the President 0:08:57.720 --> 0:08:59.960 and many Republicans have fell. I mean there were state 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:01.760 it's the President and I have the two times we 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:05.360 ran together one thirty five forty percent of the vote, 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:09.840 and yet the congressional delegation from that state is more 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:12.880 like twenty percent or less. Some states where we enjoyed 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:15.880 thirty five percent support, there are no Republicans in Congress. 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:18.600 You know, there's an old saying that that way you sow, 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:23.120 you reap, and the heavy handedness of many Democrat legislatures 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:26.720 and governors over the years is set into motion this pathway. 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.079 So I'm going to let people Indiana and other legislatures 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:33.040 make those decisions, but at the end of the day, 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:34.280 it'll be the American people that. 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:38.120 Decide no matter what happens. When it comes to twenty 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:41.000 twenty six, twenty twenty eight, we know the economy is 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.040 going to remain a top issue for American voters. And 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:47.240 this week US swybean farmers said that they were near 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:51.840 a quote trade in financial precipice and cannot survive a 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:55.320 prolonged trade war, particularly when it comes to China. I've 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:58.880 learned that Indiana is the top five soybean producing state. 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:01.560 Are you concerned about farmers and do you think that 0:10:01.600 --> 0:10:05.080 this administration is planning enough ahead to protect US farmers. 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:10.080 I believe also to believe that trade meets jobs. In 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:13.040 our administration, whether it was in negotiations with Canada and 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:16.880 Mexico or in that the strong stand we took with 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:20.480 China imposing teriffs, it was always a battle about about 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:26.600 lowering trade barriers and ending subsidies and ending trade abuses. 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:29.960 My concern about I think it's a concern. 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:32.280 Of many farmers in Indiana and all across the heartland, 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:36.600 is that what's emerging from this administration are broad based, 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:40.720 unilateral tariffs that are being imposed on friend and foe alike. 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:45.720 And that's that's that's not leverage, that's industrial policy. Uh 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:50.000 and and I believe you know that history shows and 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:54.359 and even somebody that knows a little bit about economics 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:59.040 knows that American companies and American consumers pay American tariffs. 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:02.079 I mean, some of the countries around the world. 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:06.280 That export to US will take a small reduction of 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:10.000 their price, but in the main, Americans pay that cost. 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:15.040 And it's particularly meaningful for farmers who understand that when 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:19.200 there's terriffs that are imposed on imported agricultural goods here, 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:24.280 they always result in retaliation by those markets around the world. 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:29.280 So again, my belief has always been that free trade 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:32.480 with free nations. Let's stand strong on trade abusers like 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:37.280 China around the world, but let's look to lower terraffs, 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:39.599 lower non terraf barriers. 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:41.800 And that way we'll win in the city and on 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:42.240 the farm. 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.240 It's a Vice President. You brought up industrial policy, and 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:48.040 we wanted to ask you about some headlines that we 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.720 have seen and broken here at Bloomberg News at Bounce 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:54.240 some industrial policy moves. This includes the possibility that the 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:56.520 US government may take a stake of up to ten 0:11:56.600 --> 0:12:00.280 percent in Intel Corp. The iconic American chip maker, as 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:03.679 well as take a fifteen percent cut of sales of 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:07.800 Nvidia AI chips to China. Were those kinds of ideas 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:10.400 on the table during your time in the first administration? 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:13.080 And do you think these things are a good idea 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:14.160 or a good strategy. 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:20.120 This was not a strategy that we employed during the 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:25.040 Trump Pens years. And I have great concerns about having 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:30.320 the US government take a position with a Golden Chairs 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:36.720 and Nippon Steel, or just the latest discussions about taking 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:40.720 a percent of Intel. Now the Navidia agreement is even 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:45.080 more problematic. I mean, we have export controls in place 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:49.280 to protect our national security. The limitations on the ability 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:56.320 of Navidia to sell to chips to China was on 0:12:56.360 --> 0:13:00.360 the basis of our national security. Simply taking fifteen percent 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:03.640 of those sales doesn't serve our national interests or our 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.840 national security, I would argue, And so I think we 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:09.640 need to take a step back on all of this. 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:14.520 I'd encourage the administration, and if I was speaking to 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:17.640 the President, I'd encourage him to It's time for us 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:19.360 to think twice state. 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.880 Owned enterprise is not the American way. 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:27.880 Free enterprise is the American way, and a refereed private 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:31.800 sector with less taxes and less regulation has created the 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.200 most prosperous economy in the history of the world. And 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.760 if we stay on that path, that'll always be true. 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:41.200 My ser Vice President, the last minute that we have 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:43.240 with you, we do want to ask you about news 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:46.480 of day. I would love your thoughts about President Trump's 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:50.120 decision to call in the National Guard to Washington, d C. 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:52.120 Do you think that this was the right move. 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:57.840 I strongly support the President's decision to use his authority 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:02.880 under the constitutionnsting with the Home Rule Act to really 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:07.000 bring safety back to the streets of Washington, d C. 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.680 I know there's a lot of debate about statistics, but 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:14.520 you know, honestly, if Washington, d C. Was a state 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:17.360 to have the highest homicide rate in the country, I mean, 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:23.640 sixteen hundred violent crimes this year alone in a city 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:26.800 this size is just astounding. And I think I think 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.920 the residents of this city and people around the country 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:34.080 appreciate the President taking the steps that he's taken to 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:37.520 create safety on the streets of our nation's capital. And 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:41.720 I fully support efforts by the President to provide resources 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:45.440 for states and local communities to make every city in 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:47.040 every town in America safe. 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.280 Former Vice President Mike Pence, thank you.