Speaker 1: Joining us now for reaction to that and much more
Speaker 1: employes to say, is the former Vice President of the
Speaker 1: United States, Mike Pence. Vice President Pence, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for being here.
Speaker 2: Thank you both for having me on.
Speaker 1: I want to start with one of these top stories
Speaker 1: that we're following today, which has to do with the
Speaker 1: pressure campaign from the White House when it comes to
Speaker 1: the Federal Reserve. And now you told Bloomberg Television last
Speaker 1: month that the President ought to be able to express
Speaker 1: himself when it comes.
Speaker 2: To the FED.
Speaker 1: But I want to get your thoughts on these latest
Speaker 1: allegations against FED Governor Lisa Cook. What's your level of
Speaker 1: concern now with that all when it comes to central
Speaker 1: bank independence as we see the scrutiny Widen Well, certainly.
Speaker 3: I think it'd be appropriate for Lisa Cook to respond
Speaker 3: to the allegations that have been made. I know the
Speaker 3: President's called on her to resign, but she has a
Speaker 3: right to defend herself.
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 2: I did read today that.
Speaker 3: Federal Home Loan has found more than twenty two thousand
Speaker 3: Americans that have filed mortgages, aims, and two residences at
Speaker 3: the same time, and so I think she should answer
Speaker 3: for that. Have a chance to answer for it. But
Speaker 3: what I hope is that the effort to push out
Speaker 3: another member of the Federal Reserve isn't just simply part
Speaker 3: and parcel of an effort to get Jerome Powell, who
Speaker 3: our administration appointed as a Federal Reserve chair to to
Speaker 3: lower interest rates or otherwise take action that that would
Speaker 3: not otherwise be justified. I understand the President's frustration with
Speaker 3: Chairman Powell, and he's.
Speaker 2: Entitled to speak out about that.
Speaker 3: But my hope is that these latest allegations are not
Speaker 3: simply part of that overall pressure campaign and can be
Speaker 3: given and afforded the due process that they deserve.
Speaker 4: Mister Vice President, we'd like to turn to another topic
Speaker 4: we've been covering very closely this week, of course, that
Speaker 4: is the question of the President's effort to end the
Speaker 4: war in Ukraine through a settlement between Voladimir Zelenski, the
Speaker 4: president of Ukraine, and his Russian counterpart.
Speaker 2: You have met Vladimir.
Speaker 4: Putin before, do you believe that President Trump is perhaps
Speaker 4: putting too much trust in the Russian leader and his
Speaker 4: willingness to end the war.
Speaker 3: Well, I haven't met Vladimir Putin, and it's clear to
Speaker 3: me that Putin doesn't want peace. Putin wants Ukraine. And
Speaker 3: I commend President Trump for continuing to pursue peace in
Speaker 3: Ukraine today he is quite frankly surrounded by a lot
Speaker 3: of isolationist voices in and outside the administration that frankly
Speaker 3: would have cut Ukraine off a long time ago. And
Speaker 3: so I'm grateful to President has stayed after it. I'm
Speaker 3: grateful that he renewed military support, and I commend him
Speaker 3: for meeting with President Putin and meeting with President Zelenski
Speaker 3: and our European allies. But Michael, I think one thing
Speaker 3: is missing, and that is I believe the time has
Speaker 3: come for the United States Senate to enact those strong
Speaker 3: secondary sanctions against Russia and send them to the President's desk.
Speaker 3: I believe that would strengthen the president's hand. With a
Speaker 3: waiver authority are that are built into those sanctions, the
Speaker 3: President could implement them or.
Speaker 2: Not implement as he saw fit.
Speaker 3: But my deep conviction, having studied Vladimir Putin and having
Speaker 3: spoken to him and told him things he didn't want
Speaker 3: to hear, Putin's not going to stop until he stopped.
Speaker 3: So while the President continues, on one hand, on a
Speaker 3: vigorous track of diplomacy. I think the time has come
Speaker 3: for the US Senate to put on the President's desk
Speaker 3: those strong secondary sanctions that will make it clear to
Speaker 3: Vladimir Putin and to the Russians that unless they choose
Speaker 3: the pathway of peace through diplomacy, we will continue to
Speaker 3: provide military support and we will pass the kind of
Speaker 3: secondary sanctions that will literally break their economy.
Speaker 2: What about so.
Speaker 1: Called secondary tariffs against China? Would you be in favor
Speaker 1: of the administration moving towards that against Beijing, like we've
Speaker 1: seen them take against India, even if some of the
Speaker 1: argument has been that they haven't done that yet because
Speaker 1: they don't want to risk the trade talks that are
Speaker 1: happening right now with China.
Speaker 3: Well, I have to tell you that the secondary sanctions
Speaker 3: against China and other countries that are essentially fueling the
Speaker 3: Russian war machine, sanctions that five hundred percent would have
Speaker 3: a devastating effect on the Russian economy.
Speaker 2: Now, I have.
Speaker 3: Plenty of reasons to support strong tariffs against China. During
Speaker 3: our administration, we changed the national consensus on China. We
Speaker 3: imposed two hundred and fifty billion dollars in tariffs, and
Speaker 3: we brought China to the negotiating table for that Phase
Speaker 3: one trade deal in twenty twenty. So I think we
Speaker 3: have to be really strong on China after years of
Speaker 3: trade abuses. But otherwise, I believe we ought to be
Speaker 3: pursuing free trade with free nations. We ought not to
Speaker 3: be We ought not to be cheering on one hundred
Speaker 3: and fifty billion dollars in tariff for revenue that's ultimately
Speaker 3: paid by American consumers and American businesses. But rather we
Speaker 3: ought to be looking to lower tariffs with free nations
Speaker 3: around the world. Even while we stand firm with places
Speaker 3: like China.
Speaker 1: We do want to get to trade. But I have
Speaker 1: one other for you when it comes to Russia, because
Speaker 1: a large part of the discussion this week has been
Speaker 1: around security guarantees. But we've had reporting here at Bloomberg
Speaker 1: News that there are doubts growing about what those guarantees
Speaker 1: can look like because Russia wants to have a say
Speaker 1: in what those guarantees are going to be. What is
Speaker 1: feasible in your view? What can the US push for
Speaker 1: here when it comes to guaranteeing Ukraine's future, particularly when
Speaker 1: we know that this will likely be led first by Europe,
Speaker 1: but then with the United States backing.
Speaker 3: Well, the President's taken NATO membership off the table, which
Speaker 3: he's entitled to do. But I don't know why the
Speaker 3: United States has given the Russians veto authority over who
Speaker 3: joins NATO. That's our security alliance. But be that as
Speaker 3: it may, I think the security commitments that we should
Speaker 3: make should reflect NATO. They should be in a sense
Speaker 3: like Article five, where the United States provides whatever's appropriate,
Speaker 3: not boots on the ground, but the kind of strategic
Speaker 3: support that's necessary to ensure that once Vladimir Putin has
Speaker 3: stopped that he doesn't go forward at all.
Speaker 2: If I can come back.
Speaker 3: The reason I'm so confident and so adamant about the
Speaker 3: Senate needing to move these secondary sanctions is because it
Speaker 3: was back in twenty nineteen that President Airdawan sent the
Speaker 3: tanks across the border into Syria. They were raging down
Speaker 3: on top of our Kurdish allies, and President Trump put
Speaker 3: me on a plane on Air Force two and sent
Speaker 3: me to Turkey to negotiate a ceasefire. And what I
Speaker 3: would tell you and your viewers is in that negotiation
Speaker 3: with President Airdiwan, what was persuasive to him was the
Speaker 3: fact that President Trump had given me a series of
Speaker 3: sanctions that would be imposed on members of Air Dewan's
Speaker 3: government unless he agreed to a ceasefire to allow us
Speaker 3: to evacuate our allies from the border region. As you remember,
Speaker 3: we secured that ceasefire, our Kurdish allies were able to
Speaker 3: evacuate safely. And that's why I really do believe that
Speaker 3: it would strengthen President Trump's hand if when the Senate
Speaker 3: comes back, one of their first acts would be to
Speaker 3: send those those secondary sanctions, that tough bill to the
Speaker 3: President's desk, let him sign it, implement it at his
Speaker 3: choosing with the waiver authority. But I really do believe
Speaker 3: that at the end of the day, we've got to
Speaker 3: we've got to have that hand reach out in diplomacy
Speaker 3: and negotiations, but the other hand, reminding, reminding Vladimir Putin
Speaker 3: and the Russians that there will be severe consequences, as
Speaker 3: the President said, there would be if the path of
Speaker 3: diplomacy fails.
Speaker 4: It's the Vice president we wanted to move on to
Speaker 4: domestic politics and those questions, and that includes redistricting. It's
Speaker 4: been a big topic this week, of course, with what's
Speaker 4: happening in Texas and California. As a former Indiana governor,
Speaker 4: we do support that happening in the Hoosier State and
Speaker 4: what will be the long term implications of this wave
Speaker 4: to redrun congressional maps.
Speaker 3: Well, Michael, as a former Indiana governor, I'll support with
Speaker 3: the current Indiana governor decides as appropriate with our General Assembly.
Speaker 3: You know, the Constitution gives the states the authority to
Speaker 3: set the time, place, and manner of elections, and I
Speaker 3: respect that. I also understand the frustration that the President
Speaker 3: and many Republicans have fell. I mean there were state
Speaker 3: it's the President and I have the two times we
Speaker 3: ran together one thirty five forty percent of the vote,
Speaker 3: and yet the congressional delegation from that state is more
Speaker 3: like twenty percent or less. Some states where we enjoyed
Speaker 3: thirty five percent support, there are no Republicans in Congress.
Speaker 3: You know, there's an old saying that that way you sow,
Speaker 3: you reap, and the heavy handedness of many Democrat legislatures
Speaker 3: and governors over the years is set into motion this pathway.
Speaker 3: So I'm going to let people Indiana and other legislatures
Speaker 3: make those decisions, but at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: it'll be the American people that.
Speaker 1: Decide no matter what happens. When it comes to twenty
Speaker 1: twenty six, twenty twenty eight, we know the economy is
Speaker 1: going to remain a top issue for American voters. And
Speaker 1: this week US swybean farmers said that they were near
Speaker 1: a quote trade in financial precipice and cannot survive a
Speaker 1: prolonged trade war, particularly when it comes to China. I've
Speaker 1: learned that Indiana is the top five soybean producing state.
Speaker 1: Are you concerned about farmers and do you think that
Speaker 1: this administration is planning enough ahead to protect US farmers.
Speaker 3: I believe also to believe that trade meets jobs. In
Speaker 3: our administration, whether it was in negotiations with Canada and
Speaker 3: Mexico or in that the strong stand we took with
Speaker 3: China imposing teriffs, it was always a battle about about
Speaker 3: lowering trade barriers and ending subsidies and ending trade abuses.
Speaker 2: My concern about I think it's a concern.
Speaker 3: Of many farmers in Indiana and all across the heartland,
Speaker 3: is that what's emerging from this administration are broad based,
Speaker 3: unilateral tariffs that are being imposed on friend and foe alike.
Speaker 3: And that's that's that's not leverage, that's industrial policy. Uh
Speaker 3: and and I believe you know that history shows and
Speaker 3: and even somebody that knows a little bit about economics
Speaker 3: knows that American companies and American consumers pay American tariffs.
Speaker 2: I mean, some of the countries around the world.
Speaker 3: That export to US will take a small reduction of
Speaker 3: their price, but in the main, Americans pay that cost.
Speaker 3: And it's particularly meaningful for farmers who understand that when
Speaker 3: there's terriffs that are imposed on imported agricultural goods here,
Speaker 3: they always result in retaliation by those markets around the world.
Speaker 3: So again, my belief has always been that free trade
Speaker 3: with free nations. Let's stand strong on trade abusers like
Speaker 3: China around the world, but let's look to lower terraffs,
Speaker 3: lower non terraf barriers.
Speaker 2: And that way we'll win in the city and on
Speaker 2: the farm.
Speaker 4: It's a Vice President. You brought up industrial policy, and
Speaker 4: we wanted to ask you about some headlines that we
Speaker 4: have seen and broken here at Bloomberg News at Bounce
Speaker 4: some industrial policy moves. This includes the possibility that the
Speaker 4: US government may take a stake of up to ten
Speaker 4: percent in Intel Corp. The iconic American chip maker, as
Speaker 4: well as take a fifteen percent cut of sales of
Speaker 4: Nvidia AI chips to China. Were those kinds of ideas
Speaker 4: on the table during your time in the first administration?
Speaker 4: And do you think these things are a good idea
Speaker 4: or a good strategy.
Speaker 3: This was not a strategy that we employed during the
Speaker 3: Trump Pens years. And I have great concerns about having
Speaker 3: the US government take a position with a Golden Chairs
Speaker 3: and Nippon Steel, or just the latest discussions about taking
Speaker 3: a percent of Intel. Now the Navidia agreement is even
Speaker 3: more problematic. I mean, we have export controls in place
Speaker 3: to protect our national security. The limitations on the ability
Speaker 3: of Navidia to sell to chips to China was on
Speaker 3: the basis of our national security. Simply taking fifteen percent
Speaker 3: of those sales doesn't serve our national interests or our
Speaker 3: national security, I would argue, And so I think we
Speaker 3: need to take a step back on all of this.
Speaker 3: I'd encourage the administration, and if I was speaking to
Speaker 3: the President, I'd encourage him to It's time for us
Speaker 3: to think twice state.
Speaker 2: Owned enterprise is not the American way.
Speaker 3: Free enterprise is the American way, and a refereed private
Speaker 3: sector with less taxes and less regulation has created the
Speaker 3: most prosperous economy in the history of the world. And
Speaker 3: if we stay on that path, that'll always be true.
Speaker 1: My ser Vice President, the last minute that we have
Speaker 1: with you, we do want to ask you about news
Speaker 1: of day. I would love your thoughts about President Trump's
Speaker 1: decision to call in the National Guard to Washington, d C.
Speaker 2: Do you think that this was the right move.
Speaker 3: I strongly support the President's decision to use his authority
Speaker 3: under the constitutionnsting with the Home Rule Act to really
Speaker 3: bring safety back to the streets of Washington, d C.
Speaker 3: I know there's a lot of debate about statistics, but
Speaker 3: you know, honestly, if Washington, d C. Was a state
Speaker 3: to have the highest homicide rate in the country, I mean,
Speaker 3: sixteen hundred violent crimes this year alone in a city
Speaker 3: this size is just astounding. And I think I think
Speaker 3: the residents of this city and people around the country
Speaker 3: appreciate the President taking the steps that he's taken to
Speaker 3: create safety on the streets of our nation's capital. And
Speaker 3: I fully support efforts by the President to provide resources
Speaker 3: for states and local communities to make every city in
Speaker 3: every town in America safe.
Speaker 4: Former Vice President Mike Pence, thank you.