WEBVTT - Fractured FIRE: Early Retirement, Not So Hot Right Now! #536 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.000 Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt, 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:06.960 and today we're discussing fractured fire, early retirement, not so 0:00:07.080 --> 0:00:29.120 hot right now. That's right, It is not so hot 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:32.760 right now. But yeah, we are talking about fire, financial independence, 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:35.280 retire early in the fire movement. Not so hot, but 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:38.760 the weather outside most the heat wave fire. That is 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:40.839 definitely something that is going on right now. So I mean, 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:44.120 we are continuing our conversation about fire. We talked with 0:00:44.320 --> 0:00:48.080 Sam the financial Samurai earlier this week, and this is 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:51.440 something we like to coincide with Independence Day that having 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:53.840 been Monday, and we're going to continue the conversation a 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:56.440 little bit more on this Wednesday episode. We're gonna talk 0:00:56.480 --> 0:01:00.560 about fire in the midst of the market today and 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:03.320 how it is that folks are experiencing it, as well 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:06.680 as just some some thoughts that we have in particular 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:10.560 about the r E part of fire, the retire earlier part. 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:13.000 We're gonna talk a lot about work today. I'm looking 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:15.200 forward to that discussion, buddy. That's right. So it's and 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:17.400 part of it is like the current economic situation, how 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:19.319 does that impact the movement as a whole. We're gonna 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:21.039 talk about that. We're also gonna talk about maybe the 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:22.880 things that we like the most about fire. So it's 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:25.479 not all going to be like hating. There's gonna be yeah, 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:28.360 we're not gonna hate. Hopefully a balanced perspective here. Absolutely. Hey, 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:30.600 real quick though, I cannot remember if we mentioned this 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:33.520 on the show, but I had listed a sofa that 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:35.280 we had. This is, by the way, This is a 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:38.520 sofa we've that we had for close to ten years, 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:41.280 and we are selling it. I mean we sold it, 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:42.880 I will say, because we already got the money for it. 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:45.160 We sold it for almost what we paid for it. 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:47.680 That's inflation right there. But I just know that, like 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:50.160 it's crazy. First of all, it makes the new alternative 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:53.160 is twice as one. Exactly, it makes me want to 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:55.520 continue to buy like quality goods. It was interesting, is 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:58.600 this is the first more expensive piece of furniture that 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:00.680 Kate and I ever purchased. And even the time, we're like, 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:02.840 we looked at each other before we click purchase, because 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:05.480 even back then it was an online purchase and we said, 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:07.400 are we really about to spend this much money on 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:09.799 a sofa? But we knew lose quality was made of leather. 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:12.320 It was solid. Uh and sure enough, man, the value 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:14.840 of that thing is held up. We are certainly happy 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:16.359 about that. But what I wanted to talk to you 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:18.920 about is the fact that I listed this sofa. I 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:22.320 listed it on Facebook marketplace, and a lady bought it. 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.560 She sent me money via zel, so the money was 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:28.200 sitting there in my account, and I asked her, Hey, 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:30.400 all right, let let me know when you are able 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:31.959 to come by and pick it up. And she's like, 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:33.840 all right, I'm, you know, scheduling some stuff with the movers. 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:37.600 I'll let you know. It's been weeks since, uh, we 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:40.079 have had that interaction, and I've reached out to her 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:43.840 and we still have the sofa. Honestly, I'm getting kind 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:45.760 of tired of it. I'm I'm tired of this thing 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:48.120 sitting around. Uh. It does not have a place in 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:50.560 the new house. But what say you, Joel, Yeah, I mean, 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:52.839 that's that's a good question. You've already had to move 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:55.040 this couch when you were hoping they would come before 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:59.320 you left, exactly before you moved. So luckily no swent 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:01.040 off my back. We the movers and they're like, oh, yeah, 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:03.080 no problem. Yeah, they threw it in there. Um. I 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:05.920 was hoping actually that they would come right before we moved, 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:07.400 and so it was like literally one of the last 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:09.959 things they put it on the on the actual truck. Okay, 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:13.400 well yeah, the tough thing is like there's nowhere inside 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:15.400 the house for it, so leaving it on the covered 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:18.280 porch and like letting them know, hey, this is no 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.400 longer in a climate controlled space and uh and really 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:22.799 it's up to you to pick it up start making 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:25.360 it look less attractive for them to leave it with 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:27.320 me longer. But I would also I would give them 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:29.200 a deadline. I'd say, like, listen, there's there's a week 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:31.440 before So if I do that, that's a tough thing. 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:33.639 You can't refund them all their money. Well, I don't 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:34.760 want to, That's the thing. I don't want to go 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:37.200 through the pain of having to relist it because it's 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:41.360 it's just a pain. But would you feel comfortable reselling it, 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:43.640 selling it to somebody else, because that starts to feel 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:46.000 a little dishonest, right, I mean, only if you're going 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:48.240 to refund their money. If you sold it, chances are 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:49.839 you might not get the same price. I mean, there's 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:52.760 all sorts of weirds in there. So I also feel 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:54.600 terrible about sticking like putting it out on the curb 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:56.720 at that point too, right, Because if I give them 0:03:56.720 --> 0:03:59.200 a hard deadline and say, all right, like literally after this, 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:01.080 I'm gonna put it out on the curb, I think 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:03.640 that's the like, the most honest way of going about things. 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:05.240 Because so too, I don't feel like that's a really 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:06.960 crappy thing to have a couch that you pay a 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:08.800 lot of money for putt on the curb exactly. It's 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:10.920 also really crappy to leave someone hanging for weeks and 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:13.360 weeks and weeks when you've bought something but you're not 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:15.120 coming to pick it at track together. And plus you 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:16.680 stick it on the curb. You know somebody's gonna see 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:19.160 that and think, uh, what are you doing? Like is 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:21.920 this for a photo shoot or something? Are you taking 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:24.640 photographs of this sofa and front? Someone's going to grab 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:26.960 it really quickly and they'll be outsolute. A lot of 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:29.480 money with no couch, you're gonna yeah, ye, So, but 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:33.159 maybe make my green slide curb alert, like put that 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:35.839 thing to shame, but maybe that lights to fire under 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:38.159 them the exact fire that's needed to be like, Okay, 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:39.919 we gotta figure this out. We can no longer just 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:42.200 kind of like twiddle our thumbs and hope that at 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:43.880 some point something lands into our lap so we can 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:46.839 pick it up easily. I gave a soft deadline previously, 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:49.080 but I think maybe the next step is to be like, look, 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:51.280 if you don't get it by x dates, I am 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:52.680 going to be forced to put it out on the 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:54.640 curb because literally we want to spend about a month now, 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:57.720 and and that's that's just a lot of time. Yeah, 0:04:57.760 --> 0:04:59.880 it's I think you you are with well within your 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:02.520 at this point, Thank you very much. Curious if you're 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:04.760 gonna be like, sell it again, you're gonna make twice 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:07.080 as much money, that would be That would be terrible, 0:05:07.120 --> 0:05:09.120 I think. I mean, the the only alternative is if 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:11.240 you sold it but then you refunded their money if 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:13.120 it's sold for let's say a different price, or if 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:15.840 you sold it for less and maybe there was a discrepancy, 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:18.000 like you you send them the smaller amount of I 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:19.599 don't know, I mean, like that seems kind of weird. 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:22.360 Would feel I would feel decent about that and be like, hey, sorry, 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:24.360 like someone else bought it, but they bought it for 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:26.680 a hundred bucks less, so I'm sending you back what 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.600 you sent me minus a hundred. I mean, there's no 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:32.720 real great scenario here, it's all. It's also weird because 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:34.920 she never came and saw the thing, and then weird like, 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:38.080 would you drop multiple thousands of dollars? Uh, it's not 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:41.719 like three it's basically for this thing. Would you spend 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:44.560 that much money on a sofa that you've never even 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:46.920 laid eyes on? Highly unlikely. The fact that she I 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:50.200 mean like from article or something, if it was brand new, yeah, absolutely, 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:52.800 but not used. Yeah. I was kind of dumbfounded by 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:54.320 the fact that she just went ahead and sent over 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:55.839 the money, and I'm like, wait a minute, is this 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:58.560 some sort of really fancy scam. But I mean, it's 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:00.160 difficult as far as I know, I haven't heard any 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:03.680 zel scams as far as like false deposits being made 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:06.359 or anything like that. It's not like a forged check 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:09.360 where the funds are going to come back as insufficient, 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:11.320 you know, a week from now, and you've already sent 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:14.000 a real check. To the point to this game, everybody 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:16.320 might have been making in your yeah a long time. 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:19.039 It's very seasons. All right, Well, um, good luck with 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:20.600 that one. That sounds like a little bit of a 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.880 money ethical um that we're annoying conundrum, a weird little dilemma. Yeah, alright, 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:26.680 let's move on, Matt. Let's get to the beer mentioned. 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:28.200 The beer we're having on this episode. This one is 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:30.760 called just a Kiss by the Brewery. And when I 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:32.359 when I say the brewery, I always think of like 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:35.640 the Ohio State University UM and because that's just kind 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:38.920 of an interesting name, the brewery, but it's spelled different, 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:41.120 you know, be r u e r y and and 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:44.720 this this in a more European way, right, this this 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:48.120 the brewery has been making awesome beers for a ton 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:50.680 of years now. So yeah, we'll give our thoughts on 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.280 this saison at the end of the episode, but for now, 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:55.440 let's get onto the subject at hand. We are talking 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:59.520 about the Fire movement and how it's being fractured right now. 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:02.119 And Matt made me think that, you know, some things 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:05.440 sound really good until in reality they aren't. Right, my 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:09.160 kids like naming your brewery and the brewery right, you're like, wait, now, 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:12.640 that's just confusing. But my kids, they often tell me 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:15.400 about how they plan to make decisions when they become 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:17.480 adults that are very different than the ones that that 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:19.720 we're making them, my wife and I are making. It's 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:21.600 not surprising. But of course, all the free money they 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:23.760 have on hand, they're gonna spend it at the candy store. 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.120 That's how on their list. They're going to eat ice 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:28.360 cream every night. Right, They're gonna do things a little 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:31.960 differently once they rule the roost. And I don't know 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:33.360 about you, Matt, I thought that way when I was 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:35.720 young too. I think most kids do, right, Um. I 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:38.880 still one of my favorite scenes in all of movie 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.840 history is Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory when they 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:45.480 enter the candy room, and like, I just imagining myself 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:47.800 in that is like, um, it's something I've done for 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:49.720 a lot of years, right, Like, oh wow, how would 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:52.760 you spend thirty minutes? There? You go? Hey wire? But um, 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:58.560 would you kind of float down the chocolate river? Would you? Maybe? 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:00.760 Like that sounds kind of fun? Which one would you be? 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:06.040 All the above? Maybe not Charlie, but yeah, Like, as 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:07.840 you grow older, you start to realize that some of 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.360 those things when you were a kid that you thought 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:13.480 were great, well, there's other constraints maybe that prevent you 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:17.200 from living that life, Like, um, maybe it wasn't just 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:19.400 the rules that your parents had. There were other good reasons. 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:20.840 Now you don't want to rock your teeth out, you 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:22.680 don't want to gain a ton of weight, or you 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:25.560 don't want to eat like crap and feel awful of 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:30.240 adult onset diabetes, exactly, there are other reasons to avoid uh, 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:32.000 eating as much candy as you can. And so what 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:34.240 sounded really good to eight year old me, it's not 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:36.559 necessarily as appetizing to thirty eight year old me, and 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:38.320 I hope the same is true for my kids. But 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:41.200 I think there's something similar happening when it comes to 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:44.240 the Fire movement right now, Right, this idea that sounds 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:47.880 compelling to become financially independent and to retire early when 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:50.680 the market is screaming higher year after year, Well it 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:53.960 doesn't feel the same when we're experiencing a major correction 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:57.240 and inflation soaring at the same time. Like I think 0:08:57.240 --> 0:08:59.760 the Fire movement is grappling with maybe kind of a 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:03.439 new economic reality. Yeah, yeah, So it shouldn't come as 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:06.199 a surprise, right that we're talking about this today during 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:09.199 our how to Money Financial Independence Week. But the market 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.360 has basically been in the red all year long, A 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:16.000 couple of weeks ago, the SMP officially entered into bear 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:19.280 market territory. And if you're someone who is counting on 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:22.200 the returns from the market to provide you with income, 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:24.520 you're probably sweating bullets these days. You're you know, you're 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:27.320 watching your portfolio balance with her like a like a 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:30.360 scorched yard in July. And I'm guessing you're a bit 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.559 more tense these days. Uh. And since you retired early, 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:35.880 you might even be busting out the old rolodex. You 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.760 might be reaching out to old co workers, old bosses 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:41.240 in an effort maybe to secure a spot with your 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:45.000 old employer. As your portfolio is taking a nose dive, 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:47.000 you're trying to remember, how did I how did I 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:48.520 go out? How did I quit? That I burned some 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:50.160 bridges on the way out? That did I throw up 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:51.520 a couple of middle fingers? Is there a way that 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:54.280 I could perhaps come on as a contractor hopefully I 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:56.440 was courteous when I did that. Yeah, but you know, 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:59.439 the idea of fire it still sounds great, But the 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.880 re pity of when or or how you get there, 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:06.080 it sure seems a little more precarious in the present moment. 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:07.760 That's what we want to talk about today. Yeah, I 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:10.600 mean the fire movement. It was certainly looking easier, right. 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:13.840 It seemed like the playbook was pretty simple when and 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:15.880 it literally was easier. Yeah, Like like when we are 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:19.600 seeing close to returns, you know, multiple years, Uh, you're 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:22.760 probably feeling pretty good about your prospects of uh being 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.080 able to achieve the four percent rule within your early 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:27.439 retirement's right, Yeah, by the time within ten years or 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:29.080 something like that. If the market's going up at that 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:32.440 sort of pace during the you know, longest bull market 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:35.280 in US history, it seems a little more achievable. And 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:38.120 I don't think it's coincidental that the movement gained a 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:41.040 lot of traction and additional adherence in the last five 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:43.160 or seven years, right, Um. And that's not to say 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:46.320 that there weren't other people living the quote unquote fire 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:49.600 lifestyle under a different moniker right before that that term 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:53.280 got popularized. Some people definitely were. They were saving huge 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:56.760 chunks of their income. They were proponents of investing a 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:59.680 lot of what they were saving. But the reality is 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:02.360 had a booming stock market made it kind of feel 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:06.240 like fire was reasonably easy to achieve, and it drew 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:10.440 more interest but market volatility was. Although there are people 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:13.480 in the space certainly talking about the reality of market volatility, 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:16.320 a lot of folks in the fire movement hadn't yet 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:18.920 experienced it firsthand, and there's just there's just nothing like 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:21.720 real life experience to mold and shape our views. And 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:25.880 when you actually endure a downturn, when the economic reality 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:28.120 that you've been accustomed to gets upset, the apple car 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:31.280 gets turned over, it's going to impact maybe how you 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.400 view the movement as as a whole exactly. Andy didn't 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:38.080 count because that wasn't I mean, we did drop over, 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:40.559 and so it was a bear market at that point. 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:43.600 It is more than that, actually, but that was you know, 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:46.120 it was a medically induced coma that was an artificial 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.520 little blip, and so we hadn't It was short lived, really, yeah, 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:50.720 it was like like barely a month, and we had 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:52.120 all those things on our mind at that point in time, 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:54.320 whereas right now not not so much exactly. And so 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:57.480 it's been close to fifteen years now since the true 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:01.079 bear market, and so a down arct, this this drunken 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:03.600 net worth maybe that you might be experiencing. This is 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.360 a tough thing to stomach, especially after you just hit 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:09.320 your your fire number and you quit your job. But 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:11.959 it's not just that. At the same time, prices are 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:16.000 going bonkers. We're seeing inflation at the highest it's been 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:19.959 in over forty years. And so, yeah, folks maybe who 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:22.440 retired early to do a bunch of traveling, especially if 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:24.880 you happen to jump on that that van life bandwagon 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:27.120 where you're having to pay for fuel. You're not seeing 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:29.000 your money go quite as far as as you used 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.160 to have. Those projections aren't looking nearly as safe, and 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:35.160 you're spending money, you know, hand over fist when you thought, 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:37.480 this is my guest for what I'm gonna spend in 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:39.959 a month, and it's likely exceeding that by a decent 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:42.520 choking exactly. So basically, your income has gone down, your 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:45.480 expenses have gone up. It's a double whammy. So the 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:48.800 early retiree is going to have to make some tough decisions. 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:51.720 They're gonna have to likely rain in there they're spending 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:54.840 for the time being. Uh, And so early retirement might 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.360 have to look different than previously planned. When inflation is 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:01.600 nearing ten percent. Uh, it's some folks are pushing off 0:13:01.960 --> 0:13:03.959 their fire date or they're they're going back to work 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:07.000 to ensure that they won't run out of money. There 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:10.480 are a confluence of factors that are causing folks to 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.840 rethink everything that's right. Yeah, And I think the thing 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:17.520 about financial freedom is that it needs to be simultaneously 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:20.480 an offensive and a defensive move. Right. It's it's kind 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:23.360 of an offensive strategy in the sense that you are 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:26.760 saving and investing more in order to take control over 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.920 your own financial future. You're you're basically investing in a 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:33.720 way that just exceeds your peers on almost every level, 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:36.840 in an effort to have more control over how you 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:40.560 spend basically every minute going into the future. Uh. In 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:45.040 that post work retire early lifestyle fire devotees, they work 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:48.240 to have an investment portfolio that is twenty times or 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.959 annual expenditures. But what happens if you reach that point 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:53.880 and then a bear market proceeds to tear that plan 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:57.640 apart quickly, bringing you down to something like maybe eighteen 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:00.760 times your annual expenditures. Uh. And that's not what you 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.559 plan for. That's that's where the necessity for a strong 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:06.760 defense comes in, because you can't know in advance when 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:09.240 a market correction is coming. We all know that. I mean, 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:11.760 you know, Robert Kiosaki has been predicting them every single 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.400 year for a decade and he's been wrong until now 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.200 he's like, finally, even even a broken clock is right. 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:21.440 What twice a night might see? Guys, I told you. 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:25.120 But yeah, to be able to fire without stressing, it's 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:27.160 it's it's just crucial to find a way to pad 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:30.240 your portfolio for times like this, as well as allocating 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:32.440 your investments in a way that's not going to derail 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:36.280 those plans. And so it's offensive, it's defensive, but I 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:38.120 think some of the fire proponents they really got the 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:41.960 offensive part of the fire movement down, but maybe maybe 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:44.400 when it came to some of those those defensive moves 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.600 they were lacking. And we all know Matt defense wins championships, right. 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:50.560 I'm just thinking of a swinger's reference. You're talking about, 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:52.360 like the bear ripping up the plan, and I wish 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:54.000 I would have come up with, you know, the Vince 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:55.800 von scene when he's talking about the bunny and how 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:57.720 I don't think I ever saw that movie, dude, everyone, 0:14:57.760 --> 0:14:59.160 I mean, I know it's one of those classics, but 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:01.400 it's definitely a class sick I need to rewatch that. 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.320 So anytime we talk about bear markets moving forward, I 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.880 can bust out that quote. Um, but I mean, generally speaking, 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:10.680 like financial independence, it takes a long time to reach 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:12.840 for the average person. You know, like we're talking a 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.480 decade for some folks. You know, some folks can do 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:18.240 it within a shorter number of years, but oftentimes it's 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:21.000 gonna take a good bit longer. And while we are 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:24.480 all about the pursuit of financial independence on shorter on 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:27.560 a truncated timeline, the Fire movement can be a bit 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.840 extreme for our tastes, and in an environment like the 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:33.840 current one, at least a percentage of Fire adherents are 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:37.000 having to reconsider the current plans or their timeline. And 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:38.920 so we're going to talk about better ways to think 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:42.160 about financial independence. We're gonna talk about quitting a job 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:45.560 that you don't like, in addition to praising the Fire 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:48.000 movement for what it does get right. And we will 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:59.960 get to all of that right after this break. Okay, 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:02.440 we are back from the break and just kind of 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:04.000 kind of set the stage. I think a lot of 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:07.880 people maybe who are prominent in the Fire movement, especially 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.840 people who still make money talking about the Fire movement. 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:13.520 Those folks are probably in an O case scenario because 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:17.280 they haven't actually bailed from work that provides income altogether. 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:19.200 But some of the folks who are on the other 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:22.040 side of the or because they had enough of that 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:24.560 padding that you talked about before break exactly like you've 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:27.240 got the and they and they still live incredibly frugally 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:29.360 and they have way more money than they'll ever need 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:30.960 even in a bear market. Yeah, like that padding is 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:33.560 like you you know, you're you're talking about offense and defense. 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:37.120 I feel like offenses investing in earning more defense is 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:39.640 cutting your expenses, right, because you're trying to cut the 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.080 defensive move to But like maybe it's the special teams. 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:44.120 Is that like the padding there in the middle, Like 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:46.640 it's all those small little things in the in between 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.440 in between you scoring points and in between you keeping 0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:52.440 your opponent from scoring points on you. I think there 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.880 are ways to be solidly financially independent and not have 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:58.960 a job that's earning money. But it means that you've 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:01.880 you've got some good padding in your life, some significant 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:04.479 investments in savings. It means that you've got padding, But 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:07.720 it also means in all likelihood that you, Yeah, if 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:09.800 you've quit your job. That's something that we should talk 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:12.040 about now, because you and I were not necessarily in 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:14.560 favor of the r E part of fire Right. It's 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:16.720 not it's not our favorite, and that is kind of 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:19.119 one of those things, like it kind of comes along 0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:22.000 with the financial independence package when you're talking about this movement, 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:24.640 and I think in this movement overall, there's just been 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:27.240 too much of an emphasis when it comes to ditching work, 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:30.320 and I think that that narrative is shifting at least 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:33.000 a little bit. But you know, the concept of working 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:35.320 sixty hours a week at a job you don't like 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:39.920 for a decade knows to the grindstone or maybe even longer, 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.760 in order to never have to work again. That still exists. 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.160 There's still people in the movement that kind of think 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:47.520 about it like that as a way to maybe hate 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:49.000 your life for a decade so that you can enjoy 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:50.879 the rest of it. I just think it's a horrible 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:53.639 way to live, especially you know, some of those prime 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:56.679 years where you can be having you know, fun and 0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:01.080 using your income to you know, do things that you joy. So, yeah, 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:04.399 we're gonna give maybe some alternatives to the idea. The 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:06.719 concept of early retirement and how you should use your 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:10.120 growing nest egg to help you reframe and reconsider how 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:12.720 you work, when you work, and what kind of work 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:14.720 it is that you choose to do. Yeah, it's true, 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:18.359 right that not everybody within the fire community thinks that 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:21.159 work is bad. It's a good thing. But there's an 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.879 often like subtle and sometimes not so subtle insinuation that 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:28.160 you've gotta you know, get off that hamster wheel, and 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:30.359