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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're discussing fractured fire, early retirement, not so

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Speaker 1: hot right now. That's right, It is not so hot

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Speaker 1: right now. But yeah, we are talking about fire, financial independence,

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Speaker 1: retire early in the fire movement. Not so hot, but

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Speaker 1: the weather outside most the heat wave fire. That is

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Speaker 1: definitely something that is going on right now. So I mean,

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Speaker 1: we are continuing our conversation about fire. We talked with

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Speaker 1: Sam the financial Samurai earlier this week, and this is

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Speaker 1: something we like to coincide with Independence Day that having

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Speaker 1: been Monday, and we're going to continue the conversation a

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Speaker 1: little bit more on this Wednesday episode. We're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about fire in the midst of the market today and

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Speaker 1: how it is that folks are experiencing it, as well

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Speaker 1: as just some some thoughts that we have in particular

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Speaker 1: about the r E part of fire, the retire earlier part.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna talk a lot about work today. I'm looking

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Speaker 1: forward to that discussion, buddy. That's right. So it's and

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Speaker 1: part of it is like the current economic situation, how

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Speaker 1: does that impact the movement as a whole. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk about that. We're also gonna talk about maybe the

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Speaker 1: things that we like the most about fire. So it's

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Speaker 1: not all going to be like hating. There's gonna be yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're not gonna hate. Hopefully a balanced perspective here. Absolutely. Hey,

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Speaker 1: real quick though, I cannot remember if we mentioned this

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Speaker 1: on the show, but I had listed a sofa that

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Speaker 1: we had. This is, by the way, This is a

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Speaker 1: sofa we've that we had for close to ten years,

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Speaker 1: and we are selling it. I mean we sold it,

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Speaker 1: I will say, because we already got the money for it.

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Speaker 1: We sold it for almost what we paid for it.

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Speaker 1: That's inflation right there. But I just know that, like

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Speaker 1: it's crazy. First of all, it makes the new alternative

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Speaker 1: is twice as one. Exactly, it makes me want to

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Speaker 1: continue to buy like quality goods. It was interesting, is

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Speaker 1: this is the first more expensive piece of furniture that

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Speaker 1: Kate and I ever purchased. And even the time, we're like,

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Speaker 1: we looked at each other before we click purchase, because

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Speaker 1: even back then it was an online purchase and we said,

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Speaker 1: are we really about to spend this much money on

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Speaker 1: a sofa? But we knew lose quality was made of leather.

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Speaker 1: It was solid. Uh and sure enough, man, the value

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Speaker 1: of that thing is held up. We are certainly happy

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Speaker 1: about that. But what I wanted to talk to you

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Speaker 1: about is the fact that I listed this sofa. I

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Speaker 1: listed it on Facebook marketplace, and a lady bought it.

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Speaker 1: She sent me money via zel, so the money was

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Speaker 1: sitting there in my account, and I asked her, Hey,

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Speaker 1: all right, let let me know when you are able

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Speaker 1: to come by and pick it up. And she's like,

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Speaker 1: all right, I'm, you know, scheduling some stuff with the movers.

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Speaker 1: I'll let you know. It's been weeks since, uh, we

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Speaker 1: have had that interaction, and I've reached out to her

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Speaker 1: and we still have the sofa. Honestly, I'm getting kind

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Speaker 1: of tired of it. I'm I'm tired of this thing

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Speaker 1: sitting around. Uh. It does not have a place in

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Speaker 1: the new house. But what say you, Joel, Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's that's a good question. You've already had to move

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Speaker 1: this couch when you were hoping they would come before

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Speaker 1: you left, exactly before you moved. So luckily no swent

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Speaker 1: off my back. We the movers and they're like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: no problem. Yeah, they threw it in there. Um. I

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Speaker 1: was hoping actually that they would come right before we moved,

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Speaker 1: and so it was like literally one of the last

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Speaker 1: things they put it on the on the actual truck. Okay,

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Speaker 1: well yeah, the tough thing is like there's nowhere inside

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Speaker 1: the house for it, so leaving it on the covered

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Speaker 1: porch and like letting them know, hey, this is no

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Speaker 1: longer in a climate controlled space and uh and really

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Speaker 1: it's up to you to pick it up start making

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Speaker 1: it look less attractive for them to leave it with

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Speaker 1: me longer. But I would also I would give them

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Speaker 1: a deadline. I'd say, like, listen, there's there's a week

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Speaker 1: before So if I do that, that's a tough thing.

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Speaker 1: You can't refund them all their money. Well, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to, That's the thing. I don't want to go

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Speaker 1: through the pain of having to relist it because it's

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Speaker 1: it's just a pain. But would you feel comfortable reselling it,

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Speaker 1: selling it to somebody else, because that starts to feel

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Speaker 1: a little dishonest, right, I mean, only if you're going

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Speaker 1: to refund their money. If you sold it, chances are

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Speaker 1: you might not get the same price. I mean, there's

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Speaker 1: all sorts of weirds in there. So I also feel

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Speaker 1: terrible about sticking like putting it out on the curb

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Speaker 1: at that point too, right, Because if I give them

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Speaker 1: a hard deadline and say, all right, like literally after this,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna put it out on the curb, I think

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Speaker 1: that's the like, the most honest way of going about things.

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Speaker 1: Because so too, I don't feel like that's a really

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Speaker 1: crappy thing to have a couch that you pay a

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Speaker 1: lot of money for putt on the curb exactly. It's

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Speaker 1: also really crappy to leave someone hanging for weeks and

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Speaker 1: weeks and weeks when you've bought something but you're not

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Speaker 1: coming to pick it at track together. And plus you

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Speaker 1: stick it on the curb. You know somebody's gonna see

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Speaker 1: that and think, uh, what are you doing? Like is

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Speaker 1: this for a photo shoot or something? Are you taking

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Speaker 1: photographs of this sofa and front? Someone's going to grab

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Speaker 1: it really quickly and they'll be outsolute. A lot of

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Speaker 1: money with no couch, you're gonna yeah, ye, So, but

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Speaker 1: maybe make my green slide curb alert, like put that

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Speaker 1: thing to shame, but maybe that lights to fire under

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Speaker 1: them the exact fire that's needed to be like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we gotta figure this out. We can no longer just

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Speaker 1: kind of like twiddle our thumbs and hope that at

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Speaker 1: some point something lands into our lap so we can

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Speaker 1: pick it up easily. I gave a soft deadline previously,

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Speaker 1: but I think maybe the next step is to be like, look,

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Speaker 1: if you don't get it by x dates, I am

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Speaker 1: going to be forced to put it out on the

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Speaker 1: curb because literally we want to spend about a month now,

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Speaker 1: and and that's that's just a lot of time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's I think you you are with well within your

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Speaker 1: at this point, Thank you very much. Curious if you're

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Speaker 1: gonna be like, sell it again, you're gonna make twice

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Speaker 1: as much money, that would be That would be terrible,

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Speaker 1: I think. I mean, the the only alternative is if

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Speaker 1: you sold it but then you refunded their money if

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Speaker 1: it's sold for let's say a different price, or if

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Speaker 1: you sold it for less and maybe there was a discrepancy,

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Speaker 1: like you you send them the smaller amount of I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I mean, like that seems kind of weird.

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Speaker 1: Would feel I would feel decent about that and be like, hey, sorry,

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Speaker 1: like someone else bought it, but they bought it for

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Speaker 1: a hundred bucks less, so I'm sending you back what

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Speaker 1: you sent me minus a hundred. I mean, there's no

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Speaker 1: real great scenario here, it's all. It's also weird because

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Speaker 1: she never came and saw the thing, and then weird like,

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Speaker 1: would you drop multiple thousands of dollars? Uh, it's not

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Speaker 1: like three it's basically for this thing. Would you spend

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Speaker 1: that much money on a sofa that you've never even

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Speaker 1: laid eyes on? Highly unlikely. The fact that she I

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Speaker 1: mean like from article or something, if it was brand new, yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: but not used. Yeah. I was kind of dumbfounded by

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Speaker 1: the fact that she just went ahead and sent over

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Speaker 1: the money, and I'm like, wait a minute, is this

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Speaker 1: some sort of really fancy scam. But I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: difficult as far as I know, I haven't heard any

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Speaker 1: zel scams as far as like false deposits being made

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. It's not like a forged check

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Speaker 1: where the funds are going to come back as insufficient,

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Speaker 1: you know, a week from now, and you've already sent

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Speaker 1: a real check. To the point to this game, everybody

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Speaker 1: might have been making in your yeah a long time.

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Speaker 1: It's very seasons. All right, Well, um, good luck with

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Speaker 1: that one. That sounds like a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: money ethical um that we're annoying conundrum, a weird little dilemma. Yeah, alright,

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Speaker 1: let's move on, Matt. Let's get to the beer mentioned.

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Speaker 1: The beer we're having on this episode. This one is

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Speaker 1: called just a Kiss by the Brewery. And when I

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Speaker 1: when I say the brewery, I always think of like

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Speaker 1: the Ohio State University UM and because that's just kind

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Speaker 1: of an interesting name, the brewery, but it's spelled different,

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Speaker 1: you know, be r u e r y and and

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Speaker 1: this this in a more European way, right, this this

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Speaker 1: the brewery has been making awesome beers for a ton

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Speaker 1: of years now. So yeah, we'll give our thoughts on

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Speaker 1: this saison at the end of the episode, but for now,

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Speaker 1: let's get onto the subject at hand. We are talking

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Speaker 1: about the Fire movement and how it's being fractured right now.

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Speaker 1: And Matt made me think that, you know, some things

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Speaker 1: sound really good until in reality they aren't. Right, my

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Speaker 1: kids like naming your brewery and the brewery right, you're like, wait, now,

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Speaker 1: that's just confusing. But my kids, they often tell me

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Speaker 1: about how they plan to make decisions when they become

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Speaker 1: adults that are very different than the ones that that

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Speaker 1: we're making them, my wife and I are making. It's

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Speaker 1: not surprising. But of course, all the free money they

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Speaker 1: have on hand, they're gonna spend it at the candy store.

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Speaker 1: That's how on their list. They're going to eat ice

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Speaker 1: cream every night. Right, They're gonna do things a little

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Speaker 1: differently once they rule the roost. And I don't know

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Speaker 1: about you, Matt, I thought that way when I was

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Speaker 1: young too. I think most kids do, right, Um. I

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Speaker 1: still one of my favorite scenes in all of movie

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Speaker 1: history is Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory when they

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Speaker 1: enter the candy room, and like, I just imagining myself

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Speaker 1: in that is like, um, it's something I've done for

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Speaker 1: a lot of years, right, Like, oh wow, how would

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Speaker 1: you spend thirty minutes? There? You go? Hey wire? But um,

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Speaker 1: would you kind of float down the chocolate river? Would you? Maybe?

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Speaker 1: Like that sounds kind of fun? Which one would you be?

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Speaker 1: All the above? Maybe not Charlie, but yeah, Like, as

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Speaker 1: you grow older, you start to realize that some of

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Speaker 1: those things when you were a kid that you thought

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Speaker 1: were great, well, there's other constraints maybe that prevent you

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Speaker 1: from living that life, Like, um, maybe it wasn't just

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Speaker 1: the rules that your parents had. There were other good reasons.

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Speaker 1: Now you don't want to rock your teeth out, you

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Speaker 1: don't want to gain a ton of weight, or you

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Speaker 1: don't want to eat like crap and feel awful of

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Speaker 1: adult onset diabetes, exactly, there are other reasons to avoid uh,

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Speaker 1: eating as much candy as you can. And so what

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Speaker 1: sounded really good to eight year old me, it's not

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Speaker 1: necessarily as appetizing to thirty eight year old me, and

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Speaker 1: I hope the same is true for my kids. But

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Speaker 1: I think there's something similar happening when it comes to

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Speaker 1: the Fire movement right now, Right, this idea that sounds

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Speaker 1: compelling to become financially independent and to retire early when

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Speaker 1: the market is screaming higher year after year, Well it

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Speaker 1: doesn't feel the same when we're experiencing a major correction

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Speaker 1: and inflation soaring at the same time. Like I think

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Speaker 1: the Fire movement is grappling with maybe kind of a

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Speaker 1: new economic reality. Yeah, yeah, So it shouldn't come as

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Speaker 1: a surprise, right that we're talking about this today during

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Speaker 1: our how to Money Financial Independence Week. But the market

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Speaker 1: has basically been in the red all year long, A

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, the SMP officially entered into bear

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Speaker 1: market territory. And if you're someone who is counting on

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Speaker 1: the returns from the market to provide you with income,

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Speaker 1: you're probably sweating bullets these days. You're you know, you're

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Speaker 1: watching your portfolio balance with her like a like a

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Speaker 1: scorched yard in July. And I'm guessing you're a bit

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Speaker 1: more tense these days. Uh. And since you retired early,

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Speaker 1: you might even be busting out the old rolodex. You

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Speaker 1: might be reaching out to old co workers, old bosses

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Speaker 1: in an effort maybe to secure a spot with your

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Speaker 1: old employer. As your portfolio is taking a nose dive,

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Speaker 1: you're trying to remember, how did I how did I

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Speaker 1: go out? How did I quit? That I burned some

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Speaker 1: bridges on the way out? That did I throw up

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Speaker 1: a couple of middle fingers? Is there a way that

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Speaker 1: I could perhaps come on as a contractor hopefully I

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Speaker 1: was courteous when I did that. Yeah, but you know,

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Speaker 1: the idea of fire it still sounds great, But the

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Speaker 1: re pity of when or or how you get there,

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Speaker 1: it sure seems a little more precarious in the present moment.

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Speaker 1: That's what we want to talk about today. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean the fire movement. It was certainly looking easier, right.

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Speaker 1: It seemed like the playbook was pretty simple when and

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Speaker 1: it literally was easier. Yeah, Like like when we are

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Speaker 1: seeing close to returns, you know, multiple years, Uh, you're

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Speaker 1: probably feeling pretty good about your prospects of uh being

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Speaker 1: able to achieve the four percent rule within your early

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Speaker 1: retirement's right, Yeah, by the time within ten years or

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Speaker 1: something like that. If the market's going up at that

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Speaker 1: sort of pace during the you know, longest bull market

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Speaker 1: in US history, it seems a little more achievable. And

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's coincidental that the movement gained a

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Speaker 1: lot of traction and additional adherence in the last five

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Speaker 1: or seven years, right, Um. And that's not to say

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Speaker 1: that there weren't other people living the quote unquote fire

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Speaker 1: lifestyle under a different moniker right before that that term

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Speaker 1: got popularized. Some people definitely were. They were saving huge

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Speaker 1: chunks of their income. They were proponents of investing a

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Speaker 1: lot of what they were saving. But the reality is

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Speaker 1: had a booming stock market made it kind of feel

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Speaker 1: like fire was reasonably easy to achieve, and it drew

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Speaker 1: more interest but market volatility was. Although there are people

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Speaker 1: in the space certainly talking about the reality of market volatility,

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Speaker 1: a lot of folks in the fire movement hadn't yet

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Speaker 1: experienced it firsthand, and there's just there's just nothing like

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Speaker 1: real life experience to mold and shape our views. And

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Speaker 1: when you actually endure a downturn, when the economic reality

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Speaker 1: that you've been accustomed to gets upset, the apple car

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Speaker 1: gets turned over, it's going to impact maybe how you

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Speaker 1: view the movement as as a whole exactly. Andy didn't

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Speaker 1: count because that wasn't I mean, we did drop over,

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Speaker 1: and so it was a bear market at that point.

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Speaker 1: It is more than that, actually, but that was you know,

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Speaker 1: it was a medically induced coma that was an artificial

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Speaker 1: little blip, and so we hadn't It was short lived, really, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was like like barely a month, and we had

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Speaker 1: all those things on our mind at that point in time,

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Speaker 1: whereas right now not not so much exactly. And so

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Speaker 1: it's been close to fifteen years now since the true

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Speaker 1: bear market, and so a down arct, this this drunken

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Speaker 1: net worth maybe that you might be experiencing. This is

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Speaker 1: a tough thing to stomach, especially after you just hit

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Speaker 1: your your fire number and you quit your job. But

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Speaker 1: it's not just that. At the same time, prices are

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Speaker 1: going bonkers. We're seeing inflation at the highest it's been

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Speaker 1: in over forty years. And so, yeah, folks maybe who

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Speaker 1: retired early to do a bunch of traveling, especially if

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Speaker 1: you happen to jump on that that van life bandwagon

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Speaker 1: where you're having to pay for fuel. You're not seeing

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Speaker 1: your money go quite as far as as you used

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Speaker 1: to have. Those projections aren't looking nearly as safe, and

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Speaker 1: you're spending money, you know, hand over fist when you thought,

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Speaker 1: this is my guest for what I'm gonna spend in

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Speaker 1: a month, and it's likely exceeding that by a decent

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Speaker 1: choking exactly. So basically, your income has gone down, your

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Speaker 1: expenses have gone up. It's a double whammy. So the

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Speaker 1: early retiree is going to have to make some tough decisions.

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Speaker 1: They're gonna have to likely rain in there they're spending

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Speaker 1: for the time being. Uh, And so early retirement might

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Speaker 1: have to look different than previously planned. When inflation is

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Speaker 1: nearing ten percent. Uh, it's some folks are pushing off

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Speaker 1: their fire date or they're they're going back to work

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Speaker 1: to ensure that they won't run out of money. There

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Speaker 1: are a confluence of factors that are causing folks to

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Speaker 1: rethink everything that's right. Yeah, And I think the thing

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Speaker 1: about financial freedom is that it needs to be simultaneously

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Speaker 1: an offensive and a defensive move. Right. It's it's kind

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Speaker 1: of an offensive strategy in the sense that you are

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Speaker 1: saving and investing more in order to take control over

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Speaker 1: your own financial future. You're you're basically investing in a

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Speaker 1: way that just exceeds your peers on almost every level,

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Speaker 1: in an effort to have more control over how you

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Speaker 1: spend basically every minute going into the future. Uh. In

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Speaker 1: that post work retire early lifestyle fire devotees, they work

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Speaker 1: to have an investment portfolio that is twenty times or

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Speaker 1: annual expenditures. But what happens if you reach that point

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Speaker 1: and then a bear market proceeds to tear that plan

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Speaker 1: apart quickly, bringing you down to something like maybe eighteen

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Speaker 1: times your annual expenditures. Uh. And that's not what you

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Speaker 1: plan for. That's that's where the necessity for a strong

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Speaker 1: defense comes in, because you can't know in advance when

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Speaker 1: a market correction is coming. We all know that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, Robert Kiosaki has been predicting them every single

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Speaker 1: year for a decade and he's been wrong until now

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Speaker 1: he's like, finally, even even a broken clock is right.

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Speaker 1: What twice a night might see? Guys, I told you.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, to be able to fire without stressing, it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's just crucial to find a way to pad

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Speaker 1: your portfolio for times like this, as well as allocating

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Speaker 1: your investments in a way that's not going to derail

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Speaker 1: those plans. And so it's offensive, it's defensive, but I

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Speaker 1: think some of the fire proponents they really got the

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Speaker 1: offensive part of the fire movement down, but maybe maybe

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Speaker 1: when it came to some of those those defensive moves

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Speaker 1: they were lacking. And we all know Matt defense wins championships, right.

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Speaker 1: I'm just thinking of a swinger's reference. You're talking about,

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Speaker 1: like the bear ripping up the plan, and I wish

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Speaker 1: I would have come up with, you know, the Vince

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Speaker 1: von scene when he's talking about the bunny and how

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Speaker 1: I don't think I ever saw that movie, dude, everyone,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know it's one of those classics, but

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Speaker 1: it's definitely a class sick I need to rewatch that.

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Speaker 1: So anytime we talk about bear markets moving forward, I

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Speaker 1: can bust out that quote. Um, but I mean, generally speaking,

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Speaker 1: like financial independence, it takes a long time to reach

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Speaker 1: for the average person. You know, like we're talking a

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Speaker 1: decade for some folks. You know, some folks can do

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Speaker 1: it within a shorter number of years, but oftentimes it's

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Speaker 1: gonna take a good bit longer. And while we are

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Speaker 1: all about the pursuit of financial independence on shorter on

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Speaker 1: a truncated timeline, the Fire movement can be a bit

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Speaker 1: extreme for our tastes, and in an environment like the

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Speaker 1: current one, at least a percentage of Fire adherents are

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Speaker 1: having to reconsider the current plans or their timeline. And

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Speaker 1: so we're going to talk about better ways to think

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Speaker 1: about financial independence. We're gonna talk about quitting a job

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Speaker 1: that you don't like, in addition to praising the Fire

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Speaker 1: movement for what it does get right. And we will

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Speaker 1: get to all of that right after this break. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we are back from the break and just kind of

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Speaker 1: kind of set the stage. I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: people maybe who are prominent in the Fire movement, especially

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Speaker 1: people who still make money talking about the Fire movement.

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Speaker 1: Those folks are probably in an O case scenario because

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Speaker 1: they haven't actually bailed from work that provides income altogether.

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Speaker 1: But some of the folks who are on the other

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Speaker 1: side of the or because they had enough of that

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Speaker 1: padding that you talked about before break exactly like you've

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Speaker 1: got the and they and they still live incredibly frugally

357
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Speaker 1: and they have way more money than they'll ever need

358
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Speaker 1: even in a bear market. Yeah, like that padding is

359
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Speaker 1: like you you know, you're you're talking about offense and defense.

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Speaker 1: I feel like offenses investing in earning more defense is

361
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Speaker 1: cutting your expenses, right, because you're trying to cut the

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Speaker 1: defensive move to But like maybe it's the special teams.

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Speaker 1: Is that like the padding there in the middle, Like

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Speaker 1: it's all those small little things in the in between

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Speaker 1: in between you scoring points and in between you keeping

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Speaker 1: your opponent from scoring points on you. I think there

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Speaker 1: are ways to be solidly financially independent and not have

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Speaker 1: a job that's earning money. But it means that you've

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Speaker 1: you've got some good padding in your life, some significant

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Speaker 1: investments in savings. It means that you've got padding, But

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Speaker 1: it also means in all likelihood that you, Yeah, if

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Speaker 1: you've quit your job. That's something that we should talk

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Speaker 1: about now, because you and I were not necessarily in

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Speaker 1: favor of the r E part of fire Right. It's

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Speaker 1: not it's not our favorite, and that is kind of

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Speaker 1: one of those things, like it kind of comes along

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Speaker 1: with the financial independence package when you're talking about this movement,

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Speaker 1: and I think in this movement overall, there's just been

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Speaker 1: too much of an emphasis when it comes to ditching work,

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Speaker 1: and I think that that narrative is shifting at least

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Speaker 1: a little bit. But you know, the concept of working

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Speaker 1: sixty hours a week at a job you don't like

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Speaker 1: for a decade knows to the grindstone or maybe even longer,

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Speaker 1: in order to never have to work again. That still exists.

385
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Speaker 1: There's still people in the movement that kind of think

386
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Speaker 1: about it like that as a way to maybe hate

387
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Speaker 1: your life for a decade so that you can enjoy

388
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Speaker 1: the rest of it. I just think it's a horrible

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Speaker 1: way to live, especially you know, some of those prime

390
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,679
Speaker 1: years where you can be having you know, fun and

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Speaker 1: using your income to you know, do things that you joy. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna give maybe some alternatives to the idea. The

393
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,719
Speaker 1: concept of early retirement and how you should use your

394
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:10,120
Speaker 1: growing nest egg to help you reframe and reconsider how

395
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Speaker 1: you work, when you work, and what kind of work

396
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,720
Speaker 1: it is that you choose to do. Yeah, it's true,

397
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,359
Speaker 1: right that not everybody within the fire community thinks that

398
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,159
Speaker 1: work is bad. It's a good thing. But there's an

399
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,879
Speaker 1: often like subtle and sometimes not so subtle insinuation that

400
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,160
Speaker 1: you've gotta you know, get off that hamster wheel, and

401
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,359
Speaker 1: that your day job is preventing you from living the

402
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,520
Speaker 1: life that you want. If only you had a million

403
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:34,040
Speaker 1: dollars in the bank, you know, you could, you could

404
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:35,919
Speaker 1: ditch it all together. You could be free. But we

405
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,080
Speaker 1: think that the work that you do right, that it

406
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,040
Speaker 1: is adding value to the lives of other people while

407
00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:45,080
Speaker 1: simultaneously rewarding you with money. So you're providing value in

408
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,360
Speaker 1: your you know, through your actions, and you're receiving financial

409
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,280
Speaker 1: or monetary value in return and pursuing financial independence so

410
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,639
Speaker 1: that you can opt to partake and work that is

411
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,560
Speaker 1: more enjoyable and maybe a little bit more meaningful to

412
00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,320
Speaker 1: you that makes sense to us, or even having you know,

413
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,760
Speaker 1: just more savings and investments so that you can opt

414
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:06,160
Speaker 1: to work less but quitting altogether at an early age.

415
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,640
Speaker 1: I think it's it's a misplaced goal because we want

416
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,679
Speaker 1: you to be focused on something else. It's not necessarily

417
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,120
Speaker 1: about trying to leave the rat race, trying to leave

418
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,480
Speaker 1: the job that you have currently as fast as possible.

419
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,600
Speaker 1: I think so much of it comes down to what

420
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:22,919
Speaker 1: it is that you are seeking after. You want to

421
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,000
Speaker 1: have a goal. Yeah. I think often times in the

422
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,159
Speaker 1: fire movement, that is the misplaced goal. It is like, uh,

423
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Speaker 1: an intense dislike of work. The fire number is sort

424
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Speaker 1: of that misplace and it's like, that's how I get

425
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,000
Speaker 1: out of the thing that I hate, when instead we

426
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,800
Speaker 1: would say it's even worth making less money, right, or

427
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,960
Speaker 1: in order to enjoy what you do more, prolonging your

428
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,280
Speaker 1: ability to achieve that elusive fire number. Yeah, I think

429
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,000
Speaker 1: a lot of times the the end result might be

430
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:47,800
Speaker 1: the same, but it's just what it is that you

431
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,240
Speaker 1: focus on, right. It's it's the negative, you know, like

432
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,280
Speaker 1: you cut something out of a sheet of paper. Uh,

433
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,000
Speaker 1: You've got like the positive and the negative. Uh. It's

434
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,920
Speaker 1: oftentimes folks who are focusing on the negative, like that's

435
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,440
Speaker 1: what we want you to avoid doing, and we want

436
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,280
Speaker 1: you to instead focus on the positive parts. Uh, And

437
00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,560
Speaker 1: in the end, we still think that you're gonna potentially

438
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,800
Speaker 1: end up at the same point. You might end up

439
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,240
Speaker 1: at the same point financially, but what your life looks

440
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,080
Speaker 1: like within during the interim, what your life looks like

441
00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,840
Speaker 1: in the meantime, I think that could vary wildly, as

442
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 1: well as your ability to just stay happy while you

443
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,600
Speaker 1: are retired, even if it is early. Yeah, and you

444
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,960
Speaker 1: mentioned going part time just a second ago, you know,

445
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 1: and I think that's actually a really good thing to

446
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 1: to hone in on for a second, because going part time,

447
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,040
Speaker 1: I think it's a great way to think about financial independence, right,

448
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,280
Speaker 1: especially for folks who do feel overworked, who have been

449
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,440
Speaker 1: working fifty sixty weeks. Being able to work twenty hours

450
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,600
Speaker 1: a week instead of that, that seems like a much

451
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,720
Speaker 1: better scenario for so many people. And that is going

452
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,200
Speaker 1: to get people the way there, right, And the thing

453
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,720
Speaker 1: is you don't get there overnight. That's of course true,

454
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,840
Speaker 1: But it's easier to accomplish that than amassing a war

455
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,399
Speaker 1: chest that allows you to retire and then never have

456
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,160
Speaker 1: to earn another dollar for the rest of your life.

457
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,480
Speaker 1: You're still getting some sort of income and some sort

458
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,920
Speaker 1: of fulfillment from that place that work occupies in your life.

459
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 1: And I also like how financial independence may be pursuing

460
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 1: that can allow you to start your own business or

461
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 1: to pursue a career that just doesn't pay us much.

462
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,960
Speaker 1: And instead of that note to the grindstone life for

463
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 1: a decade, right that we were talking about, so that

464
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,720
Speaker 1: you're can eliminate work forever, allowing your net worth to

465
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 1: support your ability to pursue work that you actually care

466
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 1: about that might not be as lucrative. I think that

467
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 1: is a better trade off, right than kind of the

468
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,600
Speaker 1: work as completely as hard as you can until you

469
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:36,880
Speaker 1: finally don't have to work at all anymore. Like it's

470
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 1: it's like a spigot that's either all on or all off,

471
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:40,920
Speaker 1: And I just don't think that's like the best way

472
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,119
Speaker 1: to conceptualize totally. Yeah, there are a lot of in

473
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 1: between points. It doesn't have to be binary. But I

474
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:47,920
Speaker 1: think it can also lead to not only just work

475
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 1: that you find more meaningful or that you're more passionate about,

476
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 1: but it can also lead to you continuing to do

477
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,439
Speaker 1: that work just at a pace of life that you

478
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 1: envisioned for yourself. And so I think I Like. The

479
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:00,199
Speaker 1: reason I say this is because I think a lot

480
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 1: of times there can be so much, maybe an over

481
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 1: emphasis placed on work that's your passion. And I think

482
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,000
Speaker 1: there's a lot of folks out there who might be

483
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 1: listening thinking, yeah, I never found like my like my

484
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 1: passion job, or they're thinking, well, like, I've got this job.

485
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 1: It pays pretty well, I've got pretty good benefits, it's

486
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 1: got good you know, I've got some good flexibility. But

487
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:20,720
Speaker 1: what I say, it's like my passion, I don't, I

488
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:22,200
Speaker 1: don't know, Like what does that look like? I think

489
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:23,680
Speaker 1: there are going to give you enough time to pursue

490
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 1: those passions. On the side, I think if it pays

491
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,560
Speaker 1: enough and offers you enough flexibility, that's a great scenario

492
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 1: for a ton of people. Oh absolutely yeah. And so

493
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: I guess when I'm pointing out though, is that the

494
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 1: way that we view our work I think comes down

495
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 1: oftentimes to just recognizing the value that we are able

496
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 1: to bring to other people's lives, not necessarily ditching that

497
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 1: job for something that we are going to find more passionate. Right, Like,

498
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,440
Speaker 1: it's easy I think for like an E. R doctor

499
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,080
Speaker 1: to say this, I'm making a difference here like, I'm

500
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: literally saving lives, and so in that case, I think

501
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 1: those doctors perhaps don't have to do as much work.

502
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: Uh from what is this work providing for folks? Because

503
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 1: it's very obvious, right, like really you're saving you're saving

504
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: the lives of people, compared to like a window washer,

505
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,640
Speaker 1: where they're like, Okay, how is this making a difference?

506
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 1: And instead of maybe looking down on the work that

507
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,199
Speaker 1: you know you might consider to be menial labor to

508
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 1: instead of look like literally look at the value the

509
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 1: benefit that you're bringing to those around you, or to

510
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 1: your your clients or your customers, or at least to

511
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,639
Speaker 1: your boss who is happy to pay you for the

512
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,199
Speaker 1: work that you're doing. It's more of like this mental

513
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,359
Speaker 1: like kind of mind shift I think that can take

514
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 1: place rather than like this literal career or job shift

515
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 1: in order to find more fulfillment within your work. Yeah,

516
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 1: and I think in in any job you can find

517
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: kind of the way that you can view it as

518
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 1: an act of service. And yes, exactly, even in something

519
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: like pressure washing somebody's right, which I used to do

520
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: when I got my my first full time gig in radio,

521
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 1: I was pressure washing on the side. And there's a

522
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,480
Speaker 1: way that you can view that as just like a

523
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,879
Speaker 1: meaningless task, a job that needs to get done, or

524
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 1: you can view it as like serving someone and helping

525
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 1: them make their how slept better, Like look how clean

526
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 1: this house is? Look how look how nice this driveway is?

527
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:04,920
Speaker 1: Always maybe feel good. After the kids are gonna be

528
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:06,199
Speaker 1: able to come out here, they're gonna sit on this

529
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 1: driveway and it's gonna be so clean, like it's not

530
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: gonna have any more that tree grime or like how

531
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: to driveways get so dirty. I don't even know tree

532
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 1: sap and it's like tree sap, but it's just like

533
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 1: it's like tree dander. It's just like this gunk that

534
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 1: gets on there, you know. But like if you can

535
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: look at it that way, I think I can make

536
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: any job that you're doing, uh seeing much more fulfilling.

537
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: Makes me think of Mike Rowe, who we've talked about

538
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: trying to get on the get on the show before.

539
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 1: But like the ability to find like joy and contentment

540
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: within work that you do, I think more value needs

541
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 1: to be placed on those types of jobs. And so

542
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,120
Speaker 1: we just talked about going part time, and I think

543
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 1: taking a break is another thing that you can consider

544
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: instead of like thinking that you have to quit work

545
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 1: all together, taking an extended period of time off is

546
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: another good way to think about getting away from work,

547
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: but for a period of time, but for a you know,

548
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 1: defined period of time, something like a few months. And

549
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: you know, occasionally our employer is actually willing to give

550
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 1: that to us, like other times they aren't. We actually

551
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,719
Speaker 1: talked about this, that the fact that more companies are

552
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 1: offering sabbaticals just a few months ago on the show,

553
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: and we think that's actually a really cool perk um

554
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 1: that a lot of companies are offering their employees somewhere

555
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 1: between one and three months of of leave, whether it's

556
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: paid or unpaid. But I think those extended times away

557
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 1: from work are good for our brains, are good for

558
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: our bodies, and they often provide some renewed insight for

559
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 1: us into what we want our work lives to look

560
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 1: like moving forward. So um, yeah, instead of like quitting

561
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: and leaving all together, Uh, it's it's a good idea

562
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 1: to see if you can work in an extended breaks,

563
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: some sort of sabbatical so that you can maybe reflect

564
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 1: and get renewed, get some rest, and then you know,

565
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 1: either come back with a renewed passion or maybe just

566
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: kind of yeah, start figuring out how you can pivot

567
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 1: into something else in the future. Yeah, I'll mention too.

568
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: I feel like the word sabbatical is like totally in

569
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 1: vogue right now, like you hear, not only more like

570
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 1: there's more people we know who are using that term,

571
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: but also like was written I think it was in

572
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: like Fortune or something like that. A lot of companies

573
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: are doing it as well, and I like the reason

574
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: I feel like it's overused is because like, really it's

575
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: just a break, like for most folks, but most people

576
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: think of a break as like a week, and it's

577
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: about is like it's a longer break. But I think

578
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,959
Speaker 1: it goes beyond that, and it comes down to the

579
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: intentionality that comes with what you do with that time,

580
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: because I think what's like truly involved is pausing from

581
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: your work but then looking like literally sort of like

582
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: what I was saying earlier, looking back at the work

583
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: that you've done and like reflecting on it and to

584
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 1: realize that like, oh man, this is this is good work,

585
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: like I did a good thing here, but then also

586
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: looking ahead and maybe deciding what do I want that

587
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: you know, the next seven years of my life to

588
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:43,639
Speaker 1: look like, what what is it going to involve? Like,

589
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: what is my career path going to be? Am I

590
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: going to be with the same employer? Is it time

591
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: to you know, hang my own shinkle and go out

592
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: on my own But it is important to note that

593
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 1: that ditching work, Like the reason we're mentioning this is

594
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 1: because we want folks to know that it doesn't have

595
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: to be permanent. You don't have to retire early completely.

596
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: You can just take one these breaks. You could take

597
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: a more intentional sabbatical. For instance, our our buddy Chad Carson,

598
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 1: he moved to another much more affordable country. He's planning

599
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 1: to be there for like six or nine months or

600
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 1: something like that. He's about to do this with his

601
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 1: family for the second time. He's not trying to quit

602
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 1: work all together. But he's all about the exposure and

603
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 1: the sort of the the cultural experience that his family,

604
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: that in particular his kids are going to be able

605
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: to experience. And so we mentioned this because we feel

606
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 1: that seasons of relaxation, of being intentional with where your

607
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: mind is not just thinking about the next project at

608
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 1: work that needs to get accomplished or solved or figured out,

609
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 1: being able to focus on the future, being able to

610
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 1: focus on your family. We think all these things are

611
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 1: are all very important. Yeah, they're all important, But you

612
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: don't have to quit your job altogether and never work

613
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: again in order to get a taste of some of

614
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: the best parts of what early retirement looks like. That's

615
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 1: kind of what we're saying, right, that there are other

616
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: ways to kind of enjoy some of the best parts

617
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: without saying like I gotta have two million dollar portfolio

618
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: a nest egg um in order to even be able

619
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 1: to consider leaving my job. It's like, no, no no, no,

620
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: there are a lot of steps in between, and when

621
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: it's all or none, you're you're maybe putting too much

622
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,159
Speaker 1: emphasis on a movement that could make you unhappy for

623
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: an extended period of time when there are better options

624
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 1: on like this dial, right, you're like, instead of turning

625
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 1: it to ten, turn it to three or five. Switch.

626
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: It's not an on or off switch only. Yeah, and Matt,

627
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 1: you mentioned Chad and his family doing their second sabbatical.

628
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: I did something similar actually when I was like twenty two,

629
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 1: quitting my first job for three months, and I thought

630
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 1: I was just going to use it as an opportunity

631
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: to move out west to a different part of the country,

632
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: but it ended up I moved back down here to

633
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: the southeast. But it was one of those things where

634
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: I didn't even have a ton of money saved up.

635
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: I'd like ten thousand dollars maybe in my bank account,

636
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: and I knew that I could travel cheaply for three

637
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: months on on that money, on that nest egg, and

638
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: I still had some left over at the end. So

639
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: it's one of those things where I think sometimes people

640
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: assume that even for that, they need like some sort

641
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,959
Speaker 1: of massive nest egg hanging out in their saving muse account,

642
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: And I just don't think that's the case. I think

643
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: you can make one of these things happen without necessarily

644
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: upending your life completely or having just a ridiculous amount

645
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: of money on hand. That's true, Yeah, and we should

646
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: really give credit to to to where it's due. A

647
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 1: lot of folks within the Fire movement have talked about

648
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: the problem with the retire early portion of fire, uh,

649
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: And you know, some of this is just a reflection

650
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: of the earlier fire folks and the ensuing branding of Fire,

651
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: But lots of people who are all in on fire

652
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 1: they don't, you know, they don't really choose to walk

653
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: away from work all together. Uh. Like, there are a

654
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,959
Speaker 1: lot of folks who end up starting a blog, who

655
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: start a podcast promoting the tenets of fire to other folks,

656
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: and a lot of those individuals are making a solid

657
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: income from that newfound, enjoyable post retirement work. But retiring

658
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: from work altogether at a young age like that being

659
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: your only goal, that is not what we're trying to

660
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: get folks to do here. And it's not just because

661
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: we want people to work for the rest of their

662
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: lives without actually, you know, quitting work at some point.

663
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: But I think one of the other reasons that I

664
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: think work is at least some work is helpful for

665
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: people is because a lot of folks in the fire

666
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: lifestyle or who have actually pulled the trigger and they

667
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: have retired early. Well, I feel like I've heard a

668
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 1: good number of them say that the fire lifestyle can

669
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: be lonely, and so I think part of what makes

670
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: not working fun is having other enjoyable things to do

671
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: and then other people to do them way. I think

672
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: that's why so many folks within the fire movement have blogs,

673
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: and because they're trying to convert more folks over to

674
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: their side too, over to the dark side perhaps, Uh,

675
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: And I need more daytime pool hang friends. Come join me.

676
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: The water is fine, and I want you to be

677
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: a part of my life. Literally, I've heard folks talk

678
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: about that before. Yeah, because if all your friends are

679
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: still working right early retirement, it kind of can become

680
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: this lonely endeavor. So it's it's truly, it's not just

681
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: the stock market troubles or the reality of inflation that

682
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: makes fire less desirable right now. It's it's the reality

683
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: fire it's not always as rosy as the folks pursuing

684
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: it hoped it would be once they achieve it. And

685
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: so you know, our friend Brandon the mad Fienist, he's

686
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: he's kind of admitted this much that that his fire

687
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: reality was actually a good bit tougher than he dreamed

688
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: it would be. And it actually kind of brings me

689
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: back to our our conversation with Wes Moss back in

690
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 1: the day. Matt he he is mostly focused on helping

691
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: traditional retirees make the transition to retirement in a happy way,

692
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: but he says that the happiest retirees, even the ones

693
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: who bag work early have a slew of what he

694
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: calls corpor suits, which are which are extremely meaningful hobbies.

695
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: But they also have a significant attachment to friends into family.

696
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: They spend a lot of time with them in their

697
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: retired years, and that's just not nearly as possible. It's

698
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: so much harder to do as an early retiree. But

699
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: it's also as much more difficult because of the reality

700
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: that most of your friends are probably still traditionally employee.

701
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: They're still working, and so they're not going to be

702
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: able to hang out with you during the day when

703
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: you want a hiking buddy or someone to play disc

704
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: golf with. And so I think that's one of the

705
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: other things where it might sound nice a ditch work,

706
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: But then when you think about the reality, it's like, well,

707
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: if all my favorite people are still working, um, it

708
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: might it might feel a little more like a prison

709
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: than it does some sort of new found freedom. Yeah,

710
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: so all the more reason to talk about money, to

711
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: talk about personal finances, so that you can win your

712
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: friends over, so that you can all go out and

713
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: do that together. But like we said earlier, you know,

714
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: we're not only going to hate on fire on even

715
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: early retirements. There are some benefits. There are some great

716
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: things that you can do when you retire early. Uh,

717
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: and there are some great overall principles that fire espouses,

718
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: and so we will get to all of those right

719
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: after this break. All right, we are back, Matt. I

720
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: feel like until this point we have been a little

721
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: Debbie downer. We've talked about how fire feels a little

722
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: economically untenable right now, at least for a lot of

723
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: folks who previously had a plan worked out their plan.

724
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: It's a little more difficult these days. For sure. What

725
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: do they say, you make a plan? And God laughs

726
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: that that's one of those things where a lot of

727
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: people in the Fire movement have probably experienced that a

728
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: little bit within the last six months to a year,

729
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: as inflation is soaring and the market is not doing

730
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: so hot. But but the reality is that you and

731
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: I actually love a lot of things about what the

732
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: Fire movement preaches, and and I think it's it's been

733
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. In many ways, it's been

734
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: far more good than it has been bad, and it's

735
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: impacted are thinking insignificant ways. So maybe for a second,

736
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: we can share some of our favorite aspects of fire.

737
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: We can we can end this podcast on a positive note. Totally, man,

738
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: let's do that's. Uh. You know, one of the best

739
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: things about fire is the fact that it stresses a

740
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: high savings rate. Like that is something that we can

741
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: totally get behind. That's something that we prize because traditional

742
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: personal finance folks, they they've often suggested saving Uh, let's

743
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: say ten percent of your income doesn't sound like enough. Yeah, Well,

744
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: while that's the case, Fire uh proponents they like to

745
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: turn that dial up in a big way, something closer

746
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: to five, fifty, even seventy percent of your income. Uh.

747
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: Some firefolks actually do this, and we think that that

748
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 1: can be a really good thing. If you have this

749
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: overarching plan and you know what it is that you

750
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 1: are escaping to, right, like that that you are working towards.

751
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: We want you to reach these varying stages of financial

752
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: freedom well before you you reach actual retirement age as

753
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: defined by the I r S, and a better than

754
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: average savings rate is going to be key to actually

755
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,280
Speaker 1: make this happen. Yeah, Matt. Before I kind of started

756
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: reading some of the fireblogs, I just assumed that I

757
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: was killing it. I like a fift savings right, and

758
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: I thought that was like, there weren't many people out

759
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: there doing much better than that. Then I ran into

760
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 1: some of the firefolks and I saw how much they

761
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: were saving, and I was like, it was a challenge

762
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: to me to do better, And I realized that that

763
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: is one of the best things that Fire has to offer.

764
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 1: It's it's showing a lot of people that there's a

765
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: lot more wiggle room in your budget and there's more

766
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: ability for you to save than maybe you previously thought.

767
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: But the firefolks aren't just saving money. They want people

768
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,760
Speaker 1: to invest their money. And so, yeah, while we agree

769
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: it's not sitting in that saving as accounts earning their

770
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: point nine percent now classically in vts more than what's

771
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 1: like barely more at one point one point two five

772
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: Per's true, Yeah, so it's better at least savings rates

773
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: are going up. Having cash on hand is important, even

774
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: in an environment of high inflation. But but investing allows

775
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 1: your money to work harder for you than you're working

776
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: for it, and that is something the Fire movement understands

777
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: in a big way. And so what happens is compounding

778
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: starts to do the heavy lifting for you. After years

779
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: of dedication to investing and so we would say that

780
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: the movement is also all about simple, low cost methods

781
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: of investing that we love, you know, stacking your money

782
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 1: away into index funds, low cost index funds like the

783
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: Total Stock Market Fund or SMP five fund. But v

784
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 1: o O baby Poo is great VT rates. We've got

785
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 1: FC rocks like those are those are some of our

786
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 1: favorite funds for you to consider investing your money in.

787
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 1: But lots of firefolks they get they even get go

788
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,879
Speaker 1: past that, they get creative by investing in real estate

789
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: or by house hacking as well. And so yeah, the

790
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: desire on behalf of so many in this community to

791
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: invest not just a small fraction of your paycheck, not

792
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: just getting maybe the company match in your four own K,

793
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 1: but to be stuffing huge chunks of your earnings into

794
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,640
Speaker 1: those accounts. That's something that Matt, you and I we

795
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: both get behind in a big way. We think that's

796
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 1: laudable for sure. One of the other core tenants of

797
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,479
Speaker 1: the Fire movement is the fact that by having more

798
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 1: money on hand, that that means you are going to

799
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: have more options at your disposal. Because you know, we'd

800
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 1: say that dishing work altogether in your early thirties that

801
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: like that alone isn't a great goal, But the more

802
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 1: you are able to save, the more choice that you're

803
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 1: going to have over how it is that you spend

804
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: your time. That that's what's gonna allow you to be

805
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 1: able to go from full time to part time. You know,

806
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 1: like that is going to be what allows you to

807
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 1: spend more time with your kids or serving your community.

808
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 1: You know, you can choose to do non work things

809
00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,800
Speaker 1: with your time, whether that's volunteering with the local Habitat

810
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: for Humanity affiliate or you know, serving regularly, say it

811
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: like at a local soup kitchen. There are a million

812
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: different ways that you can make yourself invaluable to your

813
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: community and to your neighbors that don't involve you being compensated.

814
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 1: And so having options allows you to to shift your

815
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: goals as you get older, because you might find that

816
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 1: the things that sounded good in your twenties they're just

817
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 1: not as appetizing in your in your forties. That growing

818
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: nest egg is going to allow you to have the

819
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,399
Speaker 1: freedom to choose your own adventure. Yeah, man, I liked

820
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 1: Miller High Life a lot more in my twenties than

821
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: I do in my late thirties. You know, I'm I

822
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: used to settle for some of that stuff in my

823
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: fridge still dig it just can't do you, Yeah, after

824
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 1: cutting the grass. There is a time and place for

825
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: almost all beer. Yeah, my friend, No, I'm I agree

826
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 1: with you, But I'd rather even have like rather po

827
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: downs and halfway crooks. Ye longer, absolutely for sure that

828
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: being said, you know, just to be able to Yeah,

829
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 1: for pure hydration purposes, Miller, I'll totally do. It's not

830
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,800
Speaker 1: hydrating though, that's the problem. You should drink water instead.

831
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 1: But yeah, your prior change as you get older and

832
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: some of the things that you maybe thought were great,

833
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 1: or you thought the ways in which you are living frugally,

834
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 1: you're gonna kind of do that in perpetuity. Well, you

835
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 1: might want to expand some things as you get older,

836
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: and so you have to think about that on the

837
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 1: front end. Um that the way you live in the

838
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: budget you have now won't stay constant. And we we

839
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: also think, Matt, that that fire can make you a

840
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 1: more productive citizen kind of like you were talking about right,

841
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: like life just isn't all about work, and and the

842
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: Protestant work ethic, it just gets a lot of praise

843
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: right that this country, we do have a problem with

844
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,399
Speaker 1: over work. There's a tendency for people to put too

845
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: much stock in their career and not enough in their

846
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: family at the family and community level. And so it's

847
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: it's it's, uh, you know, we just don't take enough

848
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: breaks in our work. Weeks as a whole are just

849
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: too strenuous. I would say. So being able to work

850
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: less means that you can, like you said, volunteer more.

851
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:51,359
Speaker 1: You know, you can show up at your kids school. Uh,

852
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: you can support the teachers. You know. We we shouldn't

853
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 1: just be working stiffs. We're really I think what we're

854
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: saying in this episode is that we should aim to

855
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: be whole listic citizens who have like the time, the ability,

856
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 1: and the energy to make impacts in other ways rather

857
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: than just at the office. Yeah, and you know, you

858
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: were just mentioning the Protestant work ethic. We I think

859
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 1: the values that Fire espouses are just way better than

860
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: kind of the mainstream American values today, not just in

861
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:20,879
Speaker 1: in how much we work, but also just in how

862
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 1: much crap that we buy for ourselves. Because consumerism, I

863
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 1: think it's the de facto religion of the US, and

864
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 1: Fire is promoting frugality, it's promoting intentionality, and yeah, we're

865
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: we're in the same camp on this one. We believe

866
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: that attempts to rein in spending and to be content

867
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,839
Speaker 1: with less are definitely laudable. And so, you know, please

868
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,280
Speaker 1: don't hear say that the Fire movement is all bad,

869
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 1: because we've you know, we've had some awesome folks like

870
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:46,399
Speaker 1: Mr Carl and Rich and regular Kirsten and Julian, we've

871
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 1: had them on the show. There's some of the biggest

872
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: voices within the Fire movement, and there's a lot that

873
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,240
Speaker 1: we can learn from their experience. But we also believe

874
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 1: that the Fire space also needs maybe a bit more humility. Uh.

875
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,839
Speaker 1: And this giant market correction it seems to be offering

876
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: a dose of it right now. We had the financial

877
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,399
Speaker 1: Samurai you know again on the podcast on Monday, and

878
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,760
Speaker 1: he actually he had this recent post that you should

879
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: check out about the regrets that a bear market can

880
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:16,240
Speaker 1: create in some firefolks, even the ones who are are blogging.

881
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 1: They're out there teaching others about how to achieve financial

882
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: independence and how to retire early. Uh. We will link

883
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 1: to that in the show notes. Uh. But yeah, we

884
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: believe that the pursuit of financial independence is a worthy goal,

885
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: but the goal of of doing all that you can

886
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: in order to achieve not only financial independence but being

887
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 1: able to retire early is a misplaced goal. You know,

888
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:39,439
Speaker 1: we we we want to make sure that you are

889
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: again not just escaping from something, but that you are

890
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: escaping to something, because the end result, like, like I

891
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: was saying earlier, like I think the end result might

892
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 1: be the same where perhaps maybe you aren't working right,

893
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: like maybe you know that you went your life to

894
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: look like actually retiring and working for your local government

895
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: where you know what, you're not making hardly any money

896
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: at all, like not enough of a wage to support

897
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: a typical family. Or maybe you know that you want

898
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 1: your life to look like you being more involved with

899
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: your kids at their school, where you're gonna be helping

900
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: out the teachers and helping out the school board, or

901
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: something like that, where you're always showing up to the

902
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: swim meets. Are friend Maggie, like that is how she

903
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,439
Speaker 1: is spending her time since she's been retired, Or maybe

904
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: like literally it could just be you sitting on a

905
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 1: hammock and reading. I think that's totally fine as long

906
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 1: as you have identified that that is a goal and

907
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 1: that that is something you want to achieve as opposed

908
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 1: to something that you're just trying to escape from. Granted,

909
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: if you've worked really hard and you're the type of

910
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: person who has been able to achieve early retirement, I'm

911
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: not sure if you're going to be super happy without life.

912
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 1: I don't write like there's a certain amount of intentment,

913
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 1: uh that that would require, and folks have varying degrees

914
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,400
Speaker 1: of that. It comes down to to your personality. But

915
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: regardless of what your ultimate goal might be, just make

916
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: sure that you have that identified for yourself and that

917
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 1: will shape everything else that leads to it. Yeah. No,

918
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 1: I think there's there's some great thoughts my friend and

919
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 1: I just you know, I think when the stock market

920
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 1: is in bear market territory and when inflation is just

921
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: running them uck, it's going to change. Of course, everybody,

922
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: the best plans of of folks, they're going to have

923
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: to readjust understandably. So especially if if that's that's the

924
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 1: only goal, right, Like, if they haven't identified an actual

925
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: goal and all they've looked at are the numbers, if

926
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 1: if they only know they're not if all they know

927
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: is that they have to hit x of their annual

928
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 1: expensive if all they know is that they have to

929
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 1: reach the point to where their investments can you know,

930
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: four percent of that can cover their expenses for the year.

931
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: And then the market tanks it completely, It flips your

932
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: world upside down. And it does not surprise me one

933
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: bit that there are folks who are experiencing some sort

934
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 1: of quitters remorse, some great resign resignation remorse, because if

935
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 1: there is a greater goal outside of just the numbers,

936
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 1: I think that could be enough to spur you on

937
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: to continue to do the hard work. But but yeah,

938
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 1: like in the middle of a bear market like this,

939
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,439
Speaker 1: you're probably probably questioning everything if you don't have that right.

940
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 1: I hope that the Fire movement in general use it

941
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: this as like a growing learning moment and like you said,

942
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: maybe I can teach you some humility mature because the

943
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 1: movement as a whole, again, like we said, has so

944
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: many good things going on and has it has really

945
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,359
Speaker 1: accelerated the concept of personal finance and how we talk

946
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: about it. But at the same time, there are a

947
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 1: lot of people who may be bought into something that

948
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 1: now appears to be a bill of goods that they're

949
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 1: gonna have a hard time achieving, and so, uh, maybe

950
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: that isn't actually what you want or need to be

951
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,280
Speaker 1: sold anyway, that's kind of what we're saying. So hopefully

952
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,439
Speaker 1: this episode has made you rethink maybe the concept of fire,

953
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 1: consider your work in a different light, and and think

954
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 1: about other ways to achieve some of those goals, those

955
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,959
Speaker 1: life goals that you have aside from just bagging work

956
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 1: in as little time as humanly possible. Totally all right, man,

957
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: let's get back to the beer that you and I

958
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: enjoyed this episode. This was just a kiss, which that's

959
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 1: a song. Do you know that song? It sounds like

960
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 1: the Killer song, but it's know you're thinking of somebody

961
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 1: told me or that way. Yeah, I just know it's

962
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 1: it's a Lady Annabelle Um or a lady A they

963
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 1: changed their name. Um, it's a it's a song by them.

964
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 1: I don't really know. I just know it's a song

965
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: by them. You know. I went to the high school

966
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: with two of the bandmates, and I did not know

967
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 1: that lived in the same neighborhood as this guy's literally

968
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 1: play guitar next to one of the dudes. I keep

969
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: stepping it up, but it literally dated their sister. No,

970
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 1: but I'm not necessarily gonna recommend that song like I'm

971
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: gonna recommend this beer. Uh, this was a food or

972
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 1: aged says on Ale with orange blossom, flowers and honey.

973
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: I gotta say this is quite the label. It's got

974
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 1: like a ton of bright, sunny, fresh colors going on here. Yeah, well,

975
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 1: just like the beer did. Right. The beer was was floral,

976
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 1: but it was earthy. The orange vibes gave it like

977
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: some brightness but just a can reflects, but just a kiss,

978
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 1: just a little bit. So I I love a good

979
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 1: funky says On. This was less on the funky side,

980
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 1: more on the floral and at tracy side. But um,

981
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 1: you know what, Seeson's are one of those dials that

982
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 1: we don't have enough of. And I really enjoyed this one.

983
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: I thought I had a little bit of oak vibe

984
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 1: coming in as well from that food or not as

985
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: much as I would have loved, but I could have

986
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 1: taken a little bit more, just a kiss of that.

987
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 1: So but overall I'd say, a really good beer. You

988
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: can't not drink this and tell me this isn't refreshing.

989
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:24,839
Speaker 1: First quenching, even though it's even though it's but yeah,

990
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: we will link to some of the different folks who

991
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: we mentioned during this episode. You can find our show

992
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 1: notes up on our website at how the Money dot com.

993
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 1: If you have been listening to the show for a

994
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: while and you have not left us a review, we

995
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: would be incredibly thankful if you did that for us.

996
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: That's not something we've been pushing folks to do recently.

997
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 1: But if you have enjoyed this episode, if you listen

998
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,960
Speaker 1: to the show and you feel like it's able to

999
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: broaden your horizons, if if it's allowed you to think

1000
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: about perhaps work or your money in a different way,

1001
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: we would love for you to share your thoughts and

1002
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 1: share how this podcast has helped you. And you can

1003
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 1: do that at Apple Podcasts or wherever it is that

1004
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,359
Speaker 1: you listen to your podcast real, real quick and easy

1005
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 1: and Spotify. You don't you don't actually get a writer

1006
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 1: of you, but you can leave a star. We just

1007
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: click that star. We appreciate it in advance. But Matt,

1008
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: that's going to do it for this episode. Until next time,

1009
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 1: Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,