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Speaker 1: Novel.

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Speaker 2: Hey listener, here we are at our final episode. If

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Speaker 2: you're concerned that you will miss our music, don't worry.

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Speaker 2: I want to let you know that we've released a

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Speaker 2: Girlfriend's soundtrack, composed by Luisa Gristin and featuring members of

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Speaker 2: Deep Throat Choir. You can listen now on Spotify and

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Speaker 2: other streaming services. You can also purchase the album by

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Speaker 2: going to bandcamp dot com and searching for the Girlfriend's

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Speaker 2: Podcast Soundtrack. All proceeds go to our charity partners at

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Speaker 2: No More. Now for the trigger warning. In this episode,

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Speaker 2: we talk about domestic violence, violence against women, and femicide,

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Speaker 2: and I'll warn you the ending has had our production

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Speaker 2: team in tears, so listen in public at your own risk.

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Speaker 2: But within all that, there's also stories of hope and

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Speaker 2: recovery and a haven for those suffering. And you guessed it,

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Speaker 2: Old Pottymouth is here swearing again. Throughout this series. I

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Speaker 2: told you one story, the story of.

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Speaker 3: Bob and Gail.

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Speaker 2: But the sad fact is Gail's case is one of many.

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Speaker 2: According to the UN, in twenty twenty one, on average,

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Speaker 2: more than five women and girls were killed every hour

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Speaker 2: by their husband, partner, or relative. Now, perhaps murder feels

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Speaker 2: a little unrelatable to you. But before Bob was a murderer,

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Speaker 2: he was an abusive and controlling partner. And those stats

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Speaker 2: are even more frightening. The UN estimates that across our lifetimes,

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Speaker 2: one in three women are subjected to physical or sexual violence.

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Speaker 2: This number hasn't really changed at all in the last decade.

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Speaker 2: Let's take this podcast as an example. Over one third

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Speaker 2: of the women we interviewed for this story have alleged

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Speaker 2: that they've been impacted by gendered violence or emotional abuse.

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Speaker 2: And that's not including the abuse inflicted by Bob.

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Speaker 4: My first husband. He was emotionally abused, not physically, but emotionally,

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Speaker 4: and I wish I had been stronger.

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Speaker 5: You think if you do the right thing, it won't

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Speaker 5: happen again, because you can't believe somebody who loves you

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Speaker 5: is really going to hurt you. And I said to

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Speaker 5: my father, you know you're an abuser, and he said,

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Speaker 5: what are you talking about. I never left a mark

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Speaker 5: on her, And I was like, wait, are you kidding me?

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Speaker 3: Is this really happening?

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Speaker 5: Because that's like a classic abuser.

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Speaker 6: Line was spent over the railing on the side of

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Speaker 6: a boat in the ocean, nothing around us, and I'm

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Speaker 6: telling you, if I would have fallen in, it would

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Speaker 6: have been curtains.

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Speaker 2: It's heartbreaking to me to hear all these incredible women

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Speaker 2: describing the hurt they have suffered. At times, it feels

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Speaker 2: like there's nothing we can do about it. Even Elaine,

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Speaker 2: Gail's sister, battled with that feeling.

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Speaker 7: There's nothing that I could ever do to change the

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Speaker 7: fact that Robert Baron barn killed my sister in July

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Speaker 7: of nineteen eighty five. The question has always been simply,

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Speaker 7: what am I going to do with that?

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Speaker 2: So Elaine pivoted from her original passion of poverty and

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Speaker 2: labor law to family law. That means every day she

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Speaker 2: helps vulnerable women and children escape bad marriages.

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Speaker 7: I do everything in my power control and protect the

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Speaker 7: lives and the wellbeing of my clients with a motivation

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Speaker 7: that far exceeds what a professional motivation should be.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety six, Elaine started working as a consultant

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Speaker 2: for the Pace Women's Justice Center in White Plains, Westchester County.

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Speaker 2: The center offers free legal aid, advice and services to

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Speaker 2: vulnerable women who want to escape their abusive relationship relationships,

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Speaker 2: Like Gail and Bob's. But Elaine never told her friends

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Speaker 2: at the center about her sister because I.

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Speaker 7: Was in the closet. They didn't know until it was

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Speaker 7: on ten ten Wins, you know, BOBBYR and bamandited. I'm

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Speaker 7: driving home from the indictment and I'm realizing I'd better

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Speaker 7: call all these people who think they're my best friends

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Speaker 7: because they're finding out on the news that I had

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Speaker 7: a sister and she was murdered by her husband.

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Speaker 2: When Elaine told her friends at the Women's Justice Center

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Speaker 2: about Gail, they decide I did to name their building

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Speaker 2: Gail's House in her honor. At the naming ceremony, Elaine

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Speaker 2: decorated the tables with Gail's pottery and poems.

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Speaker 1: Friends and family came. Even people who.

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Speaker 2: Worked on her case were there.

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Speaker 7: I'll never forget the naming. We were in a public

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Speaker 7: room called the tutor room at the law school, and

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Speaker 7: as we were almost leaving, a tall, beautiful woman ran

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Speaker 7: in and I happened to be close to the door,

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Speaker 7: and she said to me, where's Lane Gats And I said,

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Speaker 7: I'm a Lane Cats And she said, you changed my life.

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Speaker 7: She said, Gail's story gave me the courage to leave

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Speaker 7: an abusive husband. I'm an immigrant and he was threatening

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Speaker 7: me that I would be deported and I would never

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Speaker 7: see my children again. And you were telling story. Gave

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Speaker 7: me the courage to leave that relationship.

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Speaker 2: And that is why we tell these stories. I wish

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Speaker 2: I could say that now, after all these years, Elaine

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Speaker 2: and everyone else impacted by this case could rest and

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Speaker 2: simply focus on helping others in Gail's honor. But now

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Speaker 2: we've got a new fight on our hands keeping Bob

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Speaker 2: behind bars.

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Speaker 7: I had twenty years of solid peace and it was heavenly.

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Speaker 7: I never thought about Bob for twenty years, and then

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Speaker 7: the paroles process started. I will do anything to him

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Speaker 7: in he is a danger to everybody.

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Speaker 2: I'm Carol Fisher and from the teens at Novel and iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to The girlfriends Our final episode, episode nine.

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Speaker 3: We are a Sisterhood.

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Speaker 2: After Bob was charged with Gail's murder in two thousand,

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Speaker 2: he was incarcerated at Otisville Correctional Facility in Orange County.

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Speaker 2: Over the course of Bob's twenty years sentence, he's under

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Speaker 2: taken anger management courses, helped other prisoners with their studies,

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Speaker 2: and spoken with the prison rabbi. As far as we know,

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Speaker 2: he's only had one altercation in prison, which was right

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Speaker 2: at the start, where he was beaten up by a

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Speaker 2: prisoner who wanted to steal his wedding ring. In those

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Speaker 2: twenty years, you'd hope Bob would have had time to think.

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Speaker 2: Perhaps he would have reached out to Gail's family, but

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Speaker 2: he didn't. Instead, he continued to insist he was innocent.

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Speaker 2: He appealed his case, He refused to be interviewed or

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Speaker 2: to testify at his trial. His silence has been deafening.

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Speaker 2: Then on December thirtieth, twenty twenty, Bob came up for

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Speaker 2: parole and for the first time he spoke and Mindy

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Speaker 2: and I we have the transcripts.

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Speaker 5: All right, so Carol, who are you going to be?

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Speaker 2: So I'm the commissioner.

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Speaker 5: Great, I get to be Bob.

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Speaker 1: Uh huh, yeah, you get to Bob. Okay you ready,

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Speaker 1: I'm ready, Okay.

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Speaker 2: Tell me what happened on July seventh, nineteen eighty five.

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Speaker 2: What happened that led to her death?

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Speaker 3: Sir?

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Speaker 5: What happened was during that weekend. We spent the whole

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Speaker 5: weekend together and we had a pleasant weekend. At the time,

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Speaker 5: I was working about one hundred hours a week, and

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Speaker 5: at my secondary job, I was working about another twenty

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Speaker 5: hours a week. On that morning, we had planned on

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Speaker 5: going to a birthday party for my nephew. My wife

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Speaker 5: told me she did not want to go to the party,

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Speaker 5: and we had an argument about it. It was initially

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Speaker 5: a verbal argument. We were arguing with each other and

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Speaker 5: things escalated. I wanted her to stop yelling at me,

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Speaker 5: and I attacked her.

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Speaker 2: How did you attack her, sir, I strangled her. After

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Speaker 2: you strangled her, what happened, sir?

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Speaker 5: After that, I was frightened about what happened and concerned

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Speaker 5: about what had happened. So I left the apartment and

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Speaker 5: I went for a walk to think about what I

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Speaker 5: should do about it. I was cowardly about it, and

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Speaker 5: I did the wrong thing. I was scared about what happened.

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Speaker 5: I went out and made arrangements to rent an aircraft.

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Speaker 5: I went back to the apartment and brought her out

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Speaker 5: to the airport and put her in the airplane.

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Speaker 2: How did you manage to carry the body out of

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Speaker 2: the apartment.

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Speaker 7: I put her in a duffel bag.

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Speaker 1: Did you just remember her body?

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Speaker 8: Sir?

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Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 2: I did not, So why didn't you just call the police?

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Speaker 5: Because I was frightened, scared and a coward.

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Speaker 2: So you rented a plane and you took her to

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Speaker 2: the airport and you put her on the plane. Is

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Speaker 2: that correct?

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Speaker 7: Yes, that's correct.

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Speaker 1: And then what I went.

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Speaker 5: Flying, I opened the door and then took her body

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Speaker 5: out of the airplane over the ocean.

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Speaker 2: And her body was never recovered.

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Speaker 7: Is that correct? Yes, that's correct.

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Speaker 1: You fucking believe this.

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Speaker 5: I mean, for me, it's like watching the Twin Towers fall.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's just eerie. And because it's him, I

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Speaker 5: don't really even know if it's true.

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Speaker 2: You know, his language in there just sounds so scripted.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I was a coward. I can't imagine him saying that.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 2: But I also want to tell you this, what really

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Speaker 2: got me the most out of this was that, in

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Speaker 2: my mind, mindy, I always thought it was just a

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Speaker 2: tragic accident. The story that I've told myself for years

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Speaker 2: is that he got into an argument with her, things

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Speaker 2: escalated and he pushed her like this was purposeful, Like

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Speaker 2: he fucking strangled her.

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Speaker 5: Yes, it is sickening. It is sickening to me. But

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Speaker 5: to then go and take a walk and think about

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Speaker 5: how to proceed and rent an airplane. That to me

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Speaker 5: is the most sickening thing.

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Speaker 2: And then he went back to his normal life the

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Speaker 2: next day. He just goes back as if everything and.

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Speaker 7: He went to the party.

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Speaker 3: Hey he went to the damn party.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't report her missing right away. I mean, what,

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Speaker 2: Oh my god.

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Speaker 9: And I am horrified, beyond like horrified. I dated him

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Speaker 9: for six months, I slept in the same bed. I

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Speaker 9: allowed him to take my daughter on a ski trip

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Speaker 9: with just her.

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Speaker 2: I am I just couldn't wait to talk to you

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Speaker 2: about this. I am just so disappointed in myself, and

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Speaker 2: I am so fucking angry at him. He's a sick

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Speaker 2: fuck and he deserves to rot in jail for the

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Speaker 2: rest of his freaking life.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, and he should never be allowed out. No, he

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Speaker 5: is a danger to others. I mean, I don't think

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Speaker 5: this shows any remorse.

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Speaker 3: None.

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Speaker 5: I mean, there's no remorse here.

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Speaker 1: None, no remorse.

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Speaker 2: I was scared I did the wrong thing, No shit, asshole.

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Speaker 1: He's just a sick fuck.

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Speaker 2: Bob was not granted parole after his confession in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 2: so he appealed it, had another hearing and lost again,

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Speaker 2: but that doesn't mean he won't be successful.

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Speaker 3: In the future.

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Speaker 2: And that terrifies me. But if it scares me, I

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Speaker 2: can't imagine how Elaine must feel.

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Speaker 5: You know what I would like to do at some

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Speaker 5: point when this is all aired and done.

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Speaker 1: What's that I would like.

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Speaker 7: To meet her sister.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, me too.

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Speaker 7: It would give me a little closure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it would make me feel complete, and I'm wondering

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Speaker 2: if it would be healing for her too.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: After the break, Mindy and I we meet Elaine for

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Speaker 2: the first time.

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Speaker 7: Elaine, Hello, Hi, nice to meet you. Carol and Mindy,

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Speaker 7: Nice to meet you.

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Speaker 5: Elaine.

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Speaker 2: Very nice to meet you. I'm a little nervous. I

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Speaker 2: have to tell you, what are you nervous about? Well,

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Speaker 2: I mean we're meeting for the first time, and I'm

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Speaker 2: hosting this podcast. So that's been a real honor during

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Speaker 2: that to get to know Gail, and I've gotten to

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Speaker 2: know you rather well even though we haven't met. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: I just am in all of you. You're an amazing woman,

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Speaker 2: a real inspiration. I just want you to know that,

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Speaker 2: and from the bottom of my heart, I am just

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Speaker 2: so sorry for your loss.

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Speaker 7: Oh that's very sweet of you. I also feel anxiety.

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Speaker 7: I feel the anxiety of every time I do something

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Speaker 7: like this, I have to center myself back in something

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Speaker 7: that's incredibly traumatic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we just Mindy and I just read the transcripts

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Speaker 2: from the prole hearing.

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Speaker 5: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: We read them together.

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Speaker 2: I actually got them a couple of days ago from Anna,

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Speaker 2: and it was a very moving moment for me when

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Speaker 2: I read that. Not that I didn't believe that he

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Speaker 2: murdered Gail, I didn't want to imagine it the way

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Speaker 2: he did.

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Speaker 7: So obviously that he finally confessed was monumental, although I

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Speaker 7: was really annoyed when I read the quote unquote confession.

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Speaker 7: And I don't know if you remember where they read,

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Speaker 7: you know, this is what happened at the trial on

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Speaker 7: July seventh, nineteen eighty five. What happened and he started

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Speaker 7: to go into a story about how hard he works.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, go on.

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Speaker 7: I found it very unsatisfying because I wanted what I

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Speaker 7: would call a full throated confession. And when I read that,

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Speaker 7: it's like the commissioners say, and did you do this?

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Speaker 7: And he's saying yes, And we've never gotten what I

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Speaker 7: would call details. And I remember during the trial when

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Speaker 7: we never thought we would win, saying to Dan and Steve,

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Speaker 7: I'll agree to manslaughter. I'll agree to, you know, a

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Speaker 7: really reduced sentence. I want to know, and as far

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Speaker 7: as I'm concerned, I still don't know.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you're in such a liminal space and have been

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Speaker 5: in one for such a long time. My heart goes

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Speaker 5: out to you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 7: I mean I used to say, I want to know

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Speaker 7: it was she in pain. You know, she had spoken

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Speaker 7: to someone before she died, and the woman said she

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Speaker 7: sounded weird. And I've always wanted to hear that he

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Speaker 7: drugged her, she didn't know what was happening, whereas that

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Speaker 7: he'd have to admit premeditation. But I really do believe

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Speaker 7: there was premeditation. I believe it's a bunch of bullshit

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Speaker 7: that they had a fight. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 7: there's a neighbor who says they fought every Sunday. This

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Speaker 7: one was quiet. I thought they were away for the weekend.

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Speaker 7: I think it's absolute bullshit. Yeah, I've always believed that

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Speaker 7: this was completely premeditated, and therefore I'd like to believe

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Speaker 7: that he drugged her and that she had no idea

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Speaker 7: what was happening To her, right.

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Speaker 10: Right?

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Speaker 7: How long did you date him for?

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Speaker 2: Only for six months? Thank god? But may I just

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Speaker 2: say I had a lot in common with your sister

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Speaker 2: in what way? Well, her love to have fun, her

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Speaker 2: love for people. You described her as being in love

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Speaker 2: with love. That's my whole mantra. I've been married three

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Speaker 2: freaking times, so it could have.

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Speaker 8: Been me and I.

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Speaker 2: You know, those six months, I denied my reality and

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Speaker 2: by the way, he broke up with me and I

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Speaker 2: was upset.

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Speaker 1: But it was a horrible six months.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't that much fun.

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Speaker 1: The flying in the plane was fun. But I was

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Speaker 1: always justifying his behaviors.

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Speaker 2: As any woman does who's with a domestic and the behaviors, Oh,

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Speaker 2: he had a temper, so he was showing.

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Speaker 7: His anger early on in the relationship.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but not to the degree that he did I

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Speaker 2: think with Stephanie, or the degree certainly he did with Gail.

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Speaker 1: But I knew he had a short fuse. Did you

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Speaker 1: ever think he would get convicted?

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Speaker 2: I'd love to hear that part of your experience and thought.

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Speaker 7: I did not think that we would have a conviction.

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Speaker 7: You know, there's a village of women that convicted Bob.

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Speaker 7: Three of them are here. Yeah, And I remember feeling

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Speaker 7: that I've got West Coast sisters. I know you guys,

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Speaker 7: Vegas isn't quite the West Coast, but it's certainly not

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Speaker 7: the East coast. All of us, this village of sisters

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Speaker 7: of women were working together. I even remember talking to

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Speaker 7: Dan and Steve when I knew that many of you

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Speaker 7: were flying into New York to testify. You know, what

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Speaker 7: can I do to make their lives easier? So I said,

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Speaker 7: how about childcare? Like they can come with their kids?

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Speaker 7: And I all arranged childcare for everybody. And I wasn't

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Speaker 7: allowed to meet you because there was the whole witness

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Speaker 7: tampering possible problem. But I want both of you to

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Speaker 7: know that I always felt a tremendous kinship, a tremendous appreciation.

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Speaker 7: I always knew that there were so many of us,

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Speaker 7: And in fact, when the jury reached their verdict, they

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Speaker 7: tell the alternate jurors to leave the jury box because

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Speaker 7: they're no longer needed. And I'll never forget this beautiful

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Speaker 7: woman of color who was an alternate jura, sitting down

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Speaker 7: next to me and holding my hand, and it was

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Speaker 7: like she was saying to me in the jury pool,

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Speaker 7: are are with you, So no, I know that was

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Speaker 7: a long answer to you. No, I did not think

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Speaker 7: we were going to get him.

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Speaker 1: And do you think he'll get out?

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Speaker 7: Do I think he's going to get out? The parole

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Speaker 7: process only allows incarceration for up to twenty four months.

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Speaker 7: Up to it is automatically every two years, and it

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Speaker 7: can be less than every two years.

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Speaker 2: By this, Elaine means if a prisoner has served their sentence,

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Speaker 2: they are entitled to a parole hearing every two years,

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Speaker 2: but for a variety of reasons, it can happen sooner.

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Speaker 2: Bob was due to have his next parole hearing a

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Speaker 2: while ago, but for reasons unknown to us, he keeps

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Speaker 2: a journeying it. It really could happen any day now.

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Speaker 7: I know this is going to sound like cruel and

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Speaker 7: inhuman treatment, but for some reason they cannot contact me

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Speaker 7: and tell me that there's been a decision. So I

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Speaker 7: know every month when he's supposed to be there, and

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Speaker 7: I know two weeks later is when the decision can

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Speaker 7: be and I start to call the Office of Victim

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Speaker 7: Services on that day every day until I get an answer.

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Speaker 7: I think that lucky for us. The transcripts of his

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Speaker 7: parole hearings are treasure troves. He's the same sociopathic, psychotic, lying, unremorseful,

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Speaker 7: and in the second hearing, the appeal hearing, one of

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Speaker 7: the commissioners of female went after him for the lying

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Speaker 7: shit he was. He kept saying, you know, I was angry,

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Speaker 7: and she said no, she defied you about smoking, she

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Speaker 7: defied you about going to a birthday party. It was

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Speaker 7: about bullying, violence and control. It wasn't about I'm immature

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Speaker 7: and I made a mistake. And I don't know if

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Speaker 7: he's ever getting out. I hope not, because unfortunately, people

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Speaker 7: like Andy Rosenswig, the chief investigator, has said to me,

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Speaker 7: you're in danger, really yeah, or he's going after my

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Speaker 7: kids to hurt me even more. And he's a tough guy.

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Speaker 7: I mean, I don't think he's saying this to me

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Speaker 7: because he wants to make me afraid.

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Speaker 1: So what can we do to help you keep him in?

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Speaker 7: You can send letters at every parole board hearing.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 7: One of the things that he said at the first

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Speaker 7: parole board hearing that was very aggravating to me was

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Speaker 7: Gail was an anomaly. So if you experienced or anyone

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Speaker 7: you know experienced a violent episode with him. The more

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Speaker 7: of those stories that are given to the parole Board,

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Speaker 7: the more the parole Board says Gail was not the anomaly.

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Speaker 7: It's not a one time thing.

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Speaker 5: In twenty twenty, I stopped practicing critical care medicine and

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Speaker 5: went back to school to become a hospice and palliative

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Speaker 5: care physician.

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Speaker 1: But what I've.

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Speaker 5: Learned in the past years and have thought a lot about.

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Speaker 7: Is.

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Speaker 5: When you speak to someone who's dying, you ask them

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Speaker 5: how their body is, and then you ask them how

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Speaker 5: they are. And we may never find Gail's body, but

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Speaker 5: what an incredible legacy she has been the impetus for.

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Speaker 5: And a legacy is how the people who love you

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Speaker 5: remember you, and you have created an incredible legacy for her.

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Speaker 7: Thank you, mindy Elaine.

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Speaker 2: You've kept her story alive and you've allowed her to

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Speaker 2: help countless numbers of women. And I get ceery as

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Speaker 2: I say that, thank you, and so to think about

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Speaker 2: the number of women that you've helped us far and

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Speaker 2: the number of women.

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Speaker 1: That will be helped in the future.

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Speaker 2: Understanding that domestic violence has absolutely no boundaries.

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Speaker 5: The power dynamic has to change. You know, rape is

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Speaker 5: not a sexual crime. It's a crime of power, which

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Speaker 5: is exactly the way I think about this horribly sad story,

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Speaker 5: because in our own heads, we've created lives and stories

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Speaker 5: around this incident, and it has had an enormous power

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Speaker 5: for all of us. But we have to be united

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Speaker 5: in a common idea that the endpoint is this must stop,

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Speaker 5: This cannot continue.

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Speaker 2: You know, by hosting this podcast, I've really learned to

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Speaker 2: trust my inner voice, listen to my intuition. You know,

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Speaker 2: Gail knew that she was making a big mistake, but

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Speaker 2: Gail never deserve to have a mistake that ended in death,

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Speaker 2: and that could have been me. I didn't listen to

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Speaker 2: my intuition. And you know, when Maya Angela says, you know,

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Speaker 2: and I love that quote, when people show you who

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Speaker 2: they are, believe them. And Bob showed me who he

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Speaker 2: was on the first date, and Bob showed Gail who

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Speaker 2: he was consistently throughout the relationship. Yet she had a

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Speaker 2: lot of reasons for not believing him, or for thinking

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Speaker 2: that she could influence it with a better outcome, and

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Speaker 2: she paid the price for that with her life. And

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Speaker 2: I'm very very fortunate that I did not. I have

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Speaker 2: this mantra that I live by, and I think it's

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Speaker 2: applicable here. For me. I strive to always live my life,

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Speaker 2: perform my life better today than I performed yesterday, and

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Speaker 2: hosting this podcast has allowed me the opportunity to.

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Speaker 11: I'm gonna cry, get to know Gail, get to know Elaine,

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Speaker 11: get to know the family and her friends, and I

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Speaker 11: have a much better understanding that violence against women is

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Speaker 11: an epidemic.

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Speaker 2: It's been a problem, and it continues to be a problem.

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Speaker 1: And that I just want to be part of that solution. Yeah, Elaine, Carol.

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Speaker 2: The Torso, the torso that was found, do you have

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Speaker 2: some thoughts about her?

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Speaker 7: I remember sitting in the hallway at the courthouse after

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Speaker 7: the testified Bob's trial. Charlie Hersh and I were sitting

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Speaker 7: on a bench and I turned to Charlie and I said,

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Speaker 7: are you absolutely sure that this isn't Gail? And he

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Speaker 7: said to me, very unfortunately, I am absolutely sure. And

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Speaker 7: I said to him, and what are you doing to

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Speaker 7: find out who she is so that another family gets

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Speaker 7: peace that I didn't get for so many years? And

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Speaker 7: he said, the best we can with the limited resources

437
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Speaker 7: and information that we have. She is someone who died

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Speaker 7: of violent death, and she was found in May of

439
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 7: nineteen eighty nine, by the way, like two days after

440
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Speaker 7: I got married. The anthropological studies determined that she was

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Speaker 7: probably murdered in early nineteen eighty nine, which was entirely

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Speaker 7: inconsistent with her being Gail. By the way, we all

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Speaker 7: knew that at the time, but she was seemingly Gail's age,

444
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 7: and I feel terrible there's a family out there that

445
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 7: does not have closure.

446
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 12: After the break, we tell you everything we know about

447
00:30:44,520 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 12: the Torso.

448
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 2: For the best part of a year, my producer Anna

449
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 2: and her team have been trying to confirm the identity

450
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 2: of the torso that was misidentified as Gail. It never

451
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 2: felt right to reduce her existence to a cliffhanger and

452
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 2: just leave it at that. But even after hours and

453
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 2: hours of research and conversations with the Chief Medical Examiner's

454
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 2: office and local police forces, we have not been able

455
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 2: to confirm anything despite several very very promising leads. The

456
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 2: sad fact is trying to identify her really made it

457
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 2: hit home how many other women's stories are out there

458
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 2: not being told. In their search, Anna and our researcher

459
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 2: Maddie have gone through hundreds if not thousands of women's

460
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 2: cases on the Missing Person's database, and that was just

461
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 2: in the state of New York. Sadly, I can't tell

462
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 2: you all of their stories, but I did want to

463
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 2: give them a place in this podcast because they're our

464
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 2: girlfriends too.

465
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,239
Speaker 1: So if you all tell me when you're ready, all

466
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 1: to us up.

467
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 7: Okay, I'm ready, I'm ready, Okay.

468
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 2: These are some of the names of the missing and

469
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 2: murdered women from the state of New York, starting from

470
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 2: July seventh, nineteen eighty five, read to you by myself,

471
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 2: Mindy and Elaine.

472
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 7: Helene Okay, Gail Kats, Rosa Westbrook, Aquila, Hadric Flossi Wilbur,

473
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 7: Olinthia Harper, Helene Rubstein, Tammy McCormick, Candida Hernandez, Rita Fioretti,

474
00:32:52,680 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 7: Cindy Rowl's, Colleen Brooks, Erica fran Olich, Sassin, Eileen Newberger,

475
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 7: Mary Monroe, Francis Peters, Sandra Runkle.

476
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 5: Sharon Pulaski, Gail Richards, Isabelle Rizzo, Francia Penna, Sonia, Archie

477
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 5: Ella Taylor, Elizabeth Mundelli, Shirley Klemngard, and Lubrono, Norma Parkinson,

478
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 5: Monique Santiago.

479
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: Marilyn Mara Wilson.

480
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 7: Marino, Barbara Lane, Jessica Soto, Harriet Hoyt, Nowhen Hagucci.

481
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: Brown, Marie Musselia.

482
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 7: Judith Geron, Ebony Trua, Denise Griffin, Elise Farmer, Leona Rodriguez,

483
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 7: Tanya Blerov, Charmine Smalls, Christa Nicol Belusko, Tiffany Dixon, Tonny

484
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 7: Morgan Show, Mara Rodriguez, Jong Pack, Lena han Enez, Silveria,

485
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 7: Deborah Overbach, Margaret Reilly, Teresa Schroeder.

486
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 2: Glenda Lee's Valentine.

487
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 5: Evelyn Henriquez, Christine Marky.

488
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 13: Suzanne Leol, Arlena Abbas, Elizabeth Bump, Judith Conrado, Stacy Pennant,

489
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:47,280
Speaker 13: Sarah Wood, Tracy Collington, Erica Pavoca, Heidi Allen, Katherine Chiang,

490
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 13: Sandra Sali, Elizabeth.

491
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 7: Busmann, Laura Williams, Jane Kelsey, An, Jeannette Petrowski, Lucy Fuentez,

492
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 7: Charlotte Fuller, Robin Murphy, Joan Adler, Wen Wang, Katherine Minningham,

493
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 7: Sarah Hodgeney, Jennifer Boldock, Andrea Robinson, Sonya, Oliver Lori Bova,

494
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 7: Michelle Isan.

495
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 1: Jennifer Gordon, Richard.

496
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 7: Deine Middleton Camden, Sylvia, Judith Vallos, Cynthia Boehmer, Sylvia Cabden,

497
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 7: leon Anna Savette, Belita Gambrell.

498
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,760
Speaker 1: Kristen Kouka, Frances.

499
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 7: Clark, Irene Silverman, To, Jonna Lupak, Cynthia Quarrels, Patricia Kendary,

500
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 7: Quen Halsberg, Stiana Ignatovich, Debbie Ferris.

501
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 5: Denise Hired, Me, Samea, Helen Young.

502
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 7: Grace Gotamasso, Indira Monteiro, Francois.

503
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 2: Morsanria, Harriet Olson.

504
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 7: Lorraine Gruna, Jennifer cool Ashley, Carol, Patricia Bartza and Tiamanga Plassa.

505
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 2: Jack Dahlia Avria.

506
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 10: Jennifer match Ivy, Mentor, Irena, Trusha, Fritchen Walker, Marri Grlan,

507
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 10: Hailey Wristler, Heather Ballard, Kaylin Martinez.

508
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: Linda Mann, Montoya.

509
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 2: Stevens, Faith Prescott, Alexandria Bolivoy, Thalia Dorses.

510
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 7: Christine Pilhuli.

511
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 2: Shannon Mary, Sunnia Sultana.

512
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 7: Marina, Patricia Banks, Casey, Peterson, Amanda Ki.

513
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 11: Sharon Ross, Kathleen Wayner, Me, Carmini, Amy Goldberg, Rose.

514
00:36:55,320 --> 00:37:03,280
Speaker 14: Marie, Gary Leone, Patricia Cagiso, Arna, Dominique, Patra Catria, Kinwanas,

515
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 14: Pamela ma Lane, April Parker.

516
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 5: Camou, qupt By, Valise Bonilla, Lauren Shay, Rosalina Lafontaines.

517
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 8: Patricia Cabrera, Kaya, Harris, Tunshia camp Fouris, Samuel Lewis, Sophia Lovaina, Kashi, Conda, Holou,

518
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 8: Marrying Kolani, Mogita Rivera, Jamai, Wesleyan.

519
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 5: Serrena, Angela Vershisa.

520
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 7: Mercedes Fashion, Vliah, Maria.

521
00:37:37,120 --> 00:38:39,800
Speaker 15: Brabazon, Heather Coburn, m Farine Bermudas, Heidi shinogs Ni Surrendook Torres.

522
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:45,240
Speaker 2: Korea, Sonia Manic, Mariona Aakar, Narissa.

523
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 8: Comes, Veride, Bata, Shakia, Sound, Jamie and.

524
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 1: Jimenez, Debor Witkowski, Alba.

525
00:38:53,200 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 2: Logos, Cassandra Ramrez, fottom up To, Marenyevs, Rivera.

526
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 16: Skylar, Sithon, Jeannette, Charmela, Vimori Bizarro, Nanez, Prenicia Sarki, Zeta, Casanova, Tina,

527
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 16: John Pierre, Manashi, Babanga, Somarbai, Rita, Hollis, toting Lin, Karima, Melendres,

528
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:28,320
Speaker 16: Tunisia Write, Maya Krey, Fidelina Rablero, Gonzalez.

529
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 7: Louren Lcana, Jessica Lopez, Regina Williams, Sunhi Miller, Laishana Lapkowski,

530
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 7: Tatiana Mohammad, Kai Gorman, Cheyenne Lightfoot, Amaya Rashid, Diina Feinstein,

531
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 7: Nivia Smith, Diana Menjevar tersoas.

532
00:39:54,800 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 2: Brittany Dogado Dogado. If you all made it with us

533
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 2: as far thank you, truth is, we could.

534
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 1: Have kept going.

535
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 7: I'm emotionally drained and I'm in awe of you contextualizing

536
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 7: where my sister stands in the universe.

537
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 1: Thank You.

538
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 2: The Girlfriends is produced by Novel for Ourheart Radio. For

539
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 2: more from novel, visit novel Dot Audio. The series is

540
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 2: hosted by me Carol Fisher and produced by Anna Sinfield.

541
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 2: Our assistant producer is Julian Manu Gera Patten, and our

542
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 2: researcher is Madeline Parr. The editor is Veronica Simmons. Max

543
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 2: O'Brien is our executive producer. Our fact checker is Valeria Rocca.

544
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 2: Production management from Sharie Houston and Charlotte Wolf. Sound design,

545
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 2: mixing and scoring by Daniel Kempsen and Nicholas Alexander.

546
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,320
Speaker 1: Music supervision by Anna Sinfield.

547
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 2: Original music composed by Luisa Gerstein. Story development by Isaac

548
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 2: Fisher Willard Foxton is Creative director of Development. Special thanks

549
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 2: to Shawn Glynn, David Waters, Might Hilly Rowl, Katrina Norvell,

550
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 2: David Wasserman and Beth Anne Mcaluso.

551
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 5: Bah Ah.

552
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:29,800
Speaker 15: Yeah.

553
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,399
Speaker 2: We did reach out to Bob and his legal team

554
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 2: to ask if he'd like to comment on the podcast,

555
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 2: but we never heard back.

556
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:49,800
Speaker 1: Novel