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Speaker 1: M Hey everybody, it's your old pal Josh. For this

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Speaker 1: week's s Y s K Selects. I've chosen our two

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Speaker 1: thousand nineteen episode a brief overview of punk rock. And

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Speaker 1: it's just that. And I'd say we did a pretty

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Speaker 1: good job for a couple of squares, a couple of

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Speaker 1: uptight weirdos, you know what I mean. So I hope

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Speaker 1: you enjoy this brief overview of punk rock because we

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Speaker 1: did Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. Hey, I'm welcome to the podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Thrash Core back. I'm already

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Speaker 1: regretting this. There's Chuck Bryan over there, Charles W. Chuck Bryan,

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Speaker 1: There's Jerry drewome Roland and uh, like I said, I'm Josh.

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Speaker 1: This is stuff you should know. Hey, ho, let's go exactly.

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Speaker 1: I want to issue a c A off the top

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Speaker 1: here too. Fans of punk music, get ready to be

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Speaker 1: mad at us. Yeah, please don't beat this up though. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: here's the thing. Punk It's sort of like the hip

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Speaker 1: Hop episode. It's not just music, it's a culture. It's

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Speaker 1: a movement, and it is so there are so many tentacles,

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Speaker 1: alternative tentacles, so many subgenres, so many like the more

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Speaker 1: I started getting into it, I was like, why are

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Speaker 1: we even doing this in a single episode? I had

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Speaker 1: the same feeling because it can only disappoint. But we're

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Speaker 1: doing anything. There's a lot of people out there who

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Speaker 1: don't know squad about punk. We're gonna be like, cool,

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Speaker 1: I'm punk now, I get it, and the people who

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Speaker 1: are punked now we're gonna love us for it. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, there are certainly podcast I'm sure

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Speaker 1: that are dedicated to the history of punk right now,

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Speaker 1: I know. And the thing is is with a big

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Speaker 1: distinction here between the hip hop episode in this episode

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Speaker 1: is that the hip hop episode doesn't beat you up

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Speaker 1: if you show up to which there shows and you're

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Speaker 1: not wearing the right thing. That's true. Punk's kind of

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Speaker 1: protective of punk, which makes sense because that's pretty punk,

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Speaker 1: right like you kinda you can't allow for commercialization of

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Speaker 1: punk or else it stops being punk. So by definition

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Speaker 1: it has to be vigilantly defended and protected. But the

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Speaker 1: irony of the whole thing is when you do that,

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Speaker 1: you actually strangle it from becoming anything ever, and you

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Speaker 1: kind of killed punk, strangling in the cradle the End. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I listened to a lot of music while researching this,

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Speaker 1: and there's just so many things that could possibly fall

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Speaker 1: under the banner of punk, and probably so many real

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Speaker 1: punk fans that will fight you on any of them

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Speaker 1: if you say, like, you know, the Talking Heads were punk,

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Speaker 1: Television was punk, not really, but were a new wave

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, the New York Dolls, I was

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Speaker 1: listening to them proto punk. When you listen to them, though,

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Speaker 1: they sound like sort of like dressed up rock and roll,

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Speaker 1: like rocky horror picture show style, right, But make no

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Speaker 1: bones about it, the New York Dolls were a direct

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Speaker 1: predecessor of punk. Yeah. But then I started listening to

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Speaker 1: things I never listened to growing up at all. Like

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Speaker 1: I wasn't a punk kid, but I saw all the

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Speaker 1: Jackets with Minor Threat and Circle Jerks and Dead Kennedy's

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Speaker 1: on them, and I started listening to that stuff today

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Speaker 1: and I liked a lot of it. Oh, it's good music,

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Speaker 1: and some of it I didn't quite love, Okay, which

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Speaker 1: one I think? You know? My deal is I like

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Speaker 1: vocals and vocalists, and punk is not known for that.

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Speaker 1: But stuff like that had a really unique bent and

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Speaker 1: it wasn't just screaming. I liked a lot more so

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Speaker 1: you like the Misfits a lot. I like the Misfits,

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Speaker 1: I like the dann I like the Circle Jerks. Did

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Speaker 1: not like the Germs. I was never into the Germans.

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Speaker 1: What about the Cramps? Uh, didn't listen to the Cramps yet.

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Speaker 1: They're like rockabilly punk. I'll probably like it. But stuff

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Speaker 1: that had a little more melody, a little more vocal styling,

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Speaker 1: I liked much more than the Germs, which you know,

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Speaker 1: Darby Crash, just it's just screaming things that you can

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Speaker 1: hardly understand. Didn't love Black Flag, What Little Life to

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Speaker 1: listen to? Like the Henry Rawlins black Flag. I listened

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Speaker 1: to a little bit of both. But it's all very

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Speaker 1: interesting to me, and I dig the music for sure. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's hard not to in some way, shape or form

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Speaker 1: like punk when you hear it, like it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: just too it just gets under your skin just too easily,

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Speaker 1: really quickly, and you might not even realize, like you're

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Speaker 1: like your head's like kind of nodding in your knees,

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Speaker 1: like shaking or whatever. But like no matter who you are,

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Speaker 1: punk and get to you like that. Now, whether you're

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Speaker 1: like I'm gonna start buying punk records and like get

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Speaker 1: a mohawk or something like that, that's that's maybe a

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Speaker 1: couple of steps down the road. Most people probably we wouldn't,

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Speaker 1: but I think everybody can appreciate punk on some level.

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Speaker 1: Especially to me. The greatest punk band of all time,

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Speaker 1: and what I would argue would be the first punk

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Speaker 1: band is the Remotes. If you like melody and you

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Speaker 1: like singing, but you also like punk, they've got everything

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Speaker 1: you need. Yeah, And if you like songs that are

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Speaker 1: seconds long, sure, well that was a big thing. Like

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Speaker 1: punk grew out of this idea that led Zeppelin had

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Speaker 1: like eleven minutes songs you're playing on the radio, and

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Speaker 1: guys like the Ramones were like shut up. So they

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Speaker 1: purposefully and deliberately went the opposite way and they started

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Speaker 1: making songs or sometimes less than a minute, like one

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Speaker 1: of the greatest punk songs of all time in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: Circle Jerk's Wasted is like fifty fifty two seconds long,

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Speaker 1: getting get out. It's all you need. He gets the

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Speaker 1: point across. He talks about all the drugs he's on

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Speaker 1: she talks about all the stuff he does when he's

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Speaker 1: on drugs. Unless a minute. Yeah, but I think you

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Speaker 1: bring up an important point is punk was a reaction.

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Speaker 1: It was a reaction to the bloated money and the

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Speaker 1: bloated song links and the arena rock, Cucumber in the pants,

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Speaker 1: hard rock mckeismo getting the ladies. Like this great quote

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Speaker 1: from one of the Ramons, These were kids on the

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Speaker 1: outside and he said, uh, Johnny Ramon in V six

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Speaker 1: and Rolling Stones said, you know, they got together because

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Speaker 1: none of them could get girls, so they all found

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Speaker 1: solace in each other. And he said girls always wanted

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Speaker 1: to go with guys who had corvettes, so we had

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Speaker 1: nothing to do but climb on rooftops and sniff glue.

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Speaker 1: The Rams in the nutshell. But if you look at

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven, like the albums that came out in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven, Um, you know you've got the sex

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Speaker 1: Pistols and the Ramons and stuff like that, but you've

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Speaker 1: got Eric Clapton, Slowhand, Fleetwood, Max Rumors, Point of No

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Speaker 1: Return from Kansas, Uh, The Stranger from Billy Joel, which

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Speaker 1: one was that it was one of the great ones,

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Speaker 1: but they all work right right, uh Asia from Uh

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Speaker 1: Steely Dan and like these are like the big chart toppers.

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Speaker 1: And so punk came along and was just like, no,

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Speaker 1: screw all that to heck with you guys. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: what it says. So it was an ethos and a

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Speaker 1: spirit even as much as it was music. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: I think, um, one of the other things that commonly

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Speaker 1: ran across and researching this was that, um, it was

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Speaker 1: not just kind of like rock sucks because it's getting

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Speaker 1: so you know, eleven minutes long per song and there's

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Speaker 1: lots of guitar solos and stuff like that, but also

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Speaker 1: that it was hopelessly commercialized. And so punk was like,

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Speaker 1: there's nothing inherently wrong with rock, it's just gone on

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Speaker 1: this path that it's been on for so long that

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Speaker 1: it's it's just become I think, like you said, bloated, Um,

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Speaker 1: let's take rock back and scrape away all the all

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Speaker 1: the blow and just get back to like the core

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Speaker 1: and the point of it originally, which was rebellion, which

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Speaker 1: is that was what punk was built on in the

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Speaker 1: in the late seventies and the Ramans again, I will

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Speaker 1: go to my grave saying they were officially the first

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Speaker 1: punk band that ever existed, but there were there was

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Speaker 1: music that's that led up to that, immediately before it,

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Speaker 1: and even a decade or so before it that really

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Speaker 1: laid the foundation in the groundwork for for bands like

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Speaker 1: the Ramon and this the punk that that um, the

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Speaker 1: punk music that took off right afterwards. Yeah, and uh,

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Speaker 1: you also got to remember that coming into the early

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Speaker 1: seventies where some of these proto punk bands started, this

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Speaker 1: was coming off of the late sixties and the hippie

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Speaker 1: movement and Nixon and Vietnam, which so all that had

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Speaker 1: proved a failure. Yeah, and and flower power and the

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Speaker 1: peace and love and all that stuff. Uh. There there's

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Speaker 1: still Crisy Stills and Nash and stuff hanging around, but

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Speaker 1: there's also a younger generation that thumb their nose or

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Speaker 1: more specifically their middle finger at that whole generation, right,

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Speaker 1: and that's what sort of birth the punk movement, in

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Speaker 1: the proto punk movement at least, so I saw the

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Speaker 1: earliest proto punk band I could find, um that you

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Speaker 1: could trace a direct line too, is actually from Peru. Okay.

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Speaker 1: They were around in nineteen starting in Los Sakos, s A. I. C. O.

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Speaker 1: S and if you go listen to a Los Sakos song,

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Speaker 1: you will it's quite clear that this was proto punk.

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Speaker 1: Did it have the speed a little bit? Because I

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Speaker 1: think that's a bit of the distinction, Like there was

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Speaker 1: that whole uh Nuggets era garage rock of the sixties.

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Speaker 1: You can hear a little bit of that, but it

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Speaker 1: still didn't have that chugga chugga chugg a speed that

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Speaker 1: punk rock would be known for. You know it did. Yeah, no, um,

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Speaker 1: like another proto punk band that's more garage rock, but

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Speaker 1: kind of some of the sentiments they came up with.

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Speaker 1: The Chocolate Watch band had this anthem called like I'm

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Speaker 1: not like everybody else and it's like real kind of um,

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Speaker 1: it's groovy, but if you listen to the words, it's

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Speaker 1: like those guy's talking about being a punk but it's

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Speaker 1: long before punk. But they're musically they were not punk

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Speaker 1: at all. Losakos was punk like their's Their sound is

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Speaker 1: definitely punk and they were around the same time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the and the specifics of what you're doing musically

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Speaker 1: on a guitar with punk is important, is the down stroke.

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Speaker 1: So you know, it's hard to talk about it without

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Speaker 1: showing you. But if you're playing like a an Eric

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Speaker 1: Clapton rhythm part, it's like, you know, you're stroking down

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Speaker 1: and up ching ching, ching ching. If you're playing punk,

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Speaker 1: you're just going down that ching ching ching ching ching

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Speaker 1: ching ching. Uh. And that's a really, really great impression.

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Speaker 1: And the Ramans made a career out of two or

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Speaker 1: three chords played fast, playing that same rhythm and down

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Speaker 1: stroke over and over and over and over. Like I'm

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Speaker 1: convinced you just did two seconds snippet of a misfit song.

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Speaker 1: I could hear it like playing his day. It's great. Though,

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Speaker 1: I was listening to the stuff that I was like, man,

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Speaker 1: I really like a lot of this and I missed out.

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Speaker 1: So I see myself diving into it again, or diving

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Speaker 1: in for the first time rather. I mean, I know

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Speaker 1: about the Clash and the Ramones and stuff like that

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Speaker 1: for sure, but oh there's like I mean, as you know,

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Speaker 1: a whole world, the whole world. And then the thing

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Speaker 1: about punk is the more like you find, oh I

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Speaker 1: like this band, and then oh that it turns out

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Speaker 1: this guy was used to be in this other band

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Speaker 1: there from the same scene as this other band. It

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Speaker 1: just keeps going and going and going, because one of

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Speaker 1: the through lines of punk is that anybody could be

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Speaker 1: in a punk band. It was super democratized, and the

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Speaker 1: d I Y ethos um was was basically the foundation

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Speaker 1: of punk music. All right, well, let's take a break.

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Speaker 1: We'll go back in time a little bit and talk

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Speaker 1: about New York and London, and then we'll get to that.

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Speaker 1: What I think is kind of the coolest part of

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Speaker 1: this whole thing is that d I Y aesthetic. Okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, so I mentioned London in New York. H

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Speaker 1: I sourced this from a bunch of articles. I can't

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Speaker 1: remember if this was the Pitchfork one or not, but

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Speaker 1: the headline of this part is the Tale of two Cities,

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Speaker 1: New York and l A. I'm sorry New York in London,

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Speaker 1: but l A would come along a bit later with

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Speaker 1: its own scene. And also London gets mentioned here at

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Speaker 1: the expense of Manchester, which I would say is like,

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Speaker 1: that's ground zero next to New York. Right. Also ground zero,

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Speaker 1: which doesn't get nearly enough press is Australia. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: these things were going on in parallel all over the world.

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Speaker 1: That's really interesting to think, like this stuff is happening

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Speaker 1: like almost independently and it was because it's not like

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Speaker 1: someone in Australia heard someone on the internet in nine.

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Speaker 1: But there are a couple of bands, one called Cheap

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Speaker 1: Nasties on the Western I think in Perth, and then

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Speaker 1: The Saints, probably the biggest punk band to come out

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Speaker 1: of Australia. This is at the same time that CBGB's

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Speaker 1: uh and the Stooges were like getting big. It's crazy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So the Stooges would technically qualify as proto punk too,

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Speaker 1: but they came from Michigan along with m C five

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Speaker 1: and Death Death is an even earlier proto punk band

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Speaker 1: than the Stages. That documentary is great. I actually I

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Speaker 1: haven't seen that one. Yeah, there's one on death it's

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Speaker 1: just called like a band called death right. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's very like they're amazing and they were, um I

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Speaker 1: think three three African American brothers from Detroit just killing it.

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Speaker 1: Who in like a punk band? Yeah yeah, and this

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Speaker 1: is before the Studges. I think this is before MC five,

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Speaker 1: before Bad Brains for sure for sure. Um, So all

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Speaker 1: of these bands are starting to kind of lay the

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Speaker 1: groundwork and then it's almost like it just kind of ignites,

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Speaker 1: like we're saying in different parts of the world virtually

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Speaker 1: at the same time, which I just find endlessly fascinating. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's what really lends a lot of

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Speaker 1: credence to the fact that it was a movement. It

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Speaker 1: was a feeling people were rebelling against more than anything

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Speaker 1: which can happen parallel in different parts of the country

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Speaker 1: in world. You know, if there's anything that can bring

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Speaker 1: the whole world together, it's disdained for hippies, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think really bring that out. And everybody, did you

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Speaker 1: see the Tarantino movie Yet Once upon a Time, And yes,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of the anti hippies stuffing. It was

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Speaker 1: pretty funny. Yeah, a little some of them are beaten

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Speaker 1: to death literally. Well, I just mean all the DiCaprio

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Speaker 1: stuff was really funny. He did the hippies. But but

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Speaker 1: Tarantino really like pointed out, like you know, the mans

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Speaker 1: and family has been celebrated in romanticized at least in

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Speaker 1: some weird ways. Um, and they should not be. And

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Speaker 1: this is why I think he did a really good

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Speaker 1: job of doing that. Uh So sorry, we're talking about

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Speaker 1: the Stooges in MC five in Michigan. Uh in New

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Speaker 1: York Cities where things really crystallized with the club CBGB,

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Speaker 1: owned by Hilly Crystal. Crystal Crystal, is it crystal? I

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Speaker 1: think so, like Billy Crystal right by Hilly Uh. And

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Speaker 1: originally you know that stands for a country, blue, blue

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Speaker 1: grass and blues, and that was what it was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be when it opened in nineteen seventy. Yeah. But

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Speaker 1: then in about two years the Ramones started playing their

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Speaker 1: talking Heads started playing their in nineteen seventy five, Blondie,

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Speaker 1: Um Television, I think television. I'm okay with them, Like

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Speaker 1: I don't love them, they don't, I don't hate them,

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Speaker 1: but um, they were they were essential to that scene

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Speaker 1: happening um and a lot of people kind of overlook them.

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Speaker 1: I think is like one of the the foundation bands

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Speaker 1: for punk. Yeah, which is interesting, like I mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 1: like it's such different kinds of music, Like I love

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Speaker 1: talking Heads and television and Blondie and the Go Goes

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Speaker 1: and they were all on that early scene. But I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's that's anything like the Misfits or the

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Speaker 1: Damned or the Ramons. No, but the Misfits uh and

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Speaker 1: the Ramones both started their careers at cbgby so it

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Speaker 1: was like the place where punk began in the United States. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but also at Max's Kanzie, Kansas City and New York

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Speaker 1: Legendary Club. This is where like Patti Smith is hanging out,

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Speaker 1: the Velbot Underground is hanging out. Again, they're not punk

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Speaker 1: at all, but they were in that scene, right. And

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Speaker 1: one thing that we're kind of not really mentioning that

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Speaker 1: is a common thread to all these bands, not necessarily music,

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Speaker 1: but heroin was a huge thread. They shared their deep,

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Speaker 1: deep deep love of heroin um in common and that

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Speaker 1: definitely bound them together at CBGB for sure. And that

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Speaker 1: was a huge factor on the early punk scene was heroin,

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Speaker 1: which I mean this is you know, if you remember

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Speaker 1: back just a few years ago, for oxy Cotton turned

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Speaker 1: everybody into junkies in the world. Um, heroin was not

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Speaker 1: a big drug at all, and back then especially it

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Speaker 1: was like you were a total burnout if you were

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Speaker 1: doing heroin, like it was not done. So the fact

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Speaker 1: that these people were like shooting heroin like in the clubs,

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Speaker 1: that was a that was a another kind of badge

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Speaker 1: that they took on. Um that separated them from everybody else. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, even their preference of drugs was super hardcore, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: for sure. Another interesting thing happened early on in ninety

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Speaker 1: seven when these two scenes sort of exported one of

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Speaker 1: their um early UM big bands to play in the

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Speaker 1: other city. Uh. In venty seven, the Damned played in

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Speaker 1: the United States, and less than a year before that,

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Speaker 1: the Ramons had gone to the UK to play shows

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Speaker 1: in London. And that was a big deal because all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden you had these two different scenes swapping bands.

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Speaker 1: Of course, it wasn't anything they planned, but they got

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Speaker 1: a taste of New York City in London with the

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Speaker 1: Ramons in a big, big way, and the same can

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Speaker 1: be said in New York City with the Damned very British.

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Speaker 1: And then a month before the Ramons played in London,

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Speaker 1: in Manchester on June, the sex Pistols had their first show.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of people point to this is this

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Speaker 1: is when UK punk happened. It was this one show

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Speaker 1: at the Lesser Free Trade Hall, which is like a

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Speaker 1: hall might as well be a VFW basically, and that's

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Speaker 1: where the sex Pistols are there first show. But some

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Speaker 1: of the people who were there were so influential, including

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Speaker 1: a seventeen year old Morrissey who went to cover the

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Speaker 1: thing for New Music Express um that that it just

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Speaker 1: spread out like a germ, Like it was the single

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Speaker 1: point that that UK punk spread out from. And this

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Speaker 1: was uh June of ninety and within six months, the

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Speaker 1: major record labels were lining up to sign any and

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Speaker 1: every punk act they could get their hands on. Six

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Speaker 1: months Like That's so not only did it spread and

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Speaker 1: grow in parallel around the world at the same time

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Speaker 1: when it hit the scene, It's hard to overstate how

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Speaker 1: quickly it just blew up, like just from nothing to

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Speaker 1: it in six months. Yeah. I mean, if there's one

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Speaker 1: thing I mean, I don't I don't know about the

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Speaker 1: music industry today, but previous to you know, digital content,

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Speaker 1: the music industry was always there waiting to commodify the

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Speaker 1: next big thing. Yeah, and they did it to punk

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Speaker 1: big time. Yeah. So let's talk about this d I

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Speaker 1: Y thing for a little bit. It was really cool

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Speaker 1: this article about these um, these d I Y origins

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Speaker 1: in punk music. What happened was when punk started coming

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Speaker 1: around in the mid nineties seventies. This coincided with a

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Speaker 1: big shift in UH equipment and recording gear and modernizing

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Speaker 1: recording gear among the big labels. Yeah sure, um, and

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Speaker 1: so all of a sudden there was all of this,

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Speaker 1: these rooms and this gear that you could either rent

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Speaker 1: cheap or buy cheap. Yeah, they're old stuff that they

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Speaker 1: didn't need anymore. Yeah, and so punks came along and

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Speaker 1: uh started using it, and the very first punk labels

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Speaker 1: were self started. Miles Copeland started Step Forward, Bob Last

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Speaker 1: started Fast Product, and of course, very famously, Tony Wilson

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Speaker 1: started Factory Records. Yes, dude, which, by the way, see

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Speaker 1: twenty four Party of People. If you never have everybody.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing to see that again. I saw it once

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Speaker 1: when it came out. Yeah, it's a good movie. Um.

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Speaker 1: But it follows this progression of punk into new wave,

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Speaker 1: uh into the eighties. Um. It just does it in

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Speaker 1: a spectacularly great way because it's Steve Coogan who's created

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Speaker 1: so good. But people trace the um punk on record

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Speaker 1: or on recorded tape rather to the very first single

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Speaker 1: they claim very first punk single November seventy six, The

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Speaker 1: Damns New Rows, which I thought that was weird because

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Speaker 1: the Ramones released their album before them, but maybe because

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Speaker 1: they're among were on the label when they released their album.

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Speaker 1: They're saying like this is the first d I Y

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Speaker 1: Maybe when was the Ramons first? Off? I think like

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Speaker 1: the full year before. I'm pretty sure, if not at

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Speaker 1: least seventy six then, but I'm pretty sure seventy five. Well,

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Speaker 1: the Buzz Cox put out an EP and I listened

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Speaker 1: to a lot of that today. I enjoyed that. UM

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Speaker 1: Spiral Scratch was this EP was apparently the first British

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Speaker 1: homemade record and that was a really big deal. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this is a seven. They sold out a thousand copies

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Speaker 1: that they printed, then they went on to sell another

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Speaker 1: sixteen thousand and UM. The influence on Spiral Scratch really

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Speaker 1: spread out and told everyone because they printed it was

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Speaker 1: very cool. They printed on the little record jacket like

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Speaker 1: how much it cost, how they produced it, and what

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Speaker 1: the money was all about for a hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: three pounds, basically saying go do this right, like and

385
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Speaker 1: here's how to do it. Yeah. Um they all all

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Speaker 1: like that kind of set the tone for other records,

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Speaker 1: like other punk bands released their own record. Words also

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Speaker 1: included instructions on the sleeve that the record came in

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Speaker 1: UM and the whole d I Y record released thing

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Speaker 1: that the Buzz Cocks kicked off UM. Other people started

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Speaker 1: to find other ways to to kind of make it

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Speaker 1: so punk could exist outside of the influence of the

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Speaker 1: record companies. Like people would release records in zip block baggies,

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Speaker 1: Like that was the record sleeve that your record came in,

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Speaker 1: and people loved it, Like you didn't. You didn't need

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Speaker 1: like this expensive sleeve for the thing to come in,

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Speaker 1: Like you could just pop it in for in a

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Speaker 1: zip block bag and sell it. It's super punk. And

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Speaker 1: then also, um, if you can form a band that

400
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Speaker 1: it was put like this, like the sex Pistols showed

401
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Speaker 1: that anybody could be in a punk band. You didn't

402
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Speaker 1: even need be very talented, right, you didn't even need

403
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Speaker 1: to know how to play an instrument, um, and you

404
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Speaker 1: could be in a punk band. And the buzz Cocks

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Speaker 1: came along and showed that anybody could us our record.

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Speaker 1: But there's still one very essential ingredient missing, and that

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Speaker 1: was distribution. And like you said, mail order made up

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Speaker 1: for a lot of the Buzzcocks ep UM sales, but

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Speaker 1: they they realized that there were more people out there

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Speaker 1: who wanted this stuff but didn't have a way to

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Speaker 1: get to it. So a what was called the Cartel

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Speaker 1: was formed, which was a group of independent record stores

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Speaker 1: around the UK that would basically serve as a distribution

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Speaker 1: network for these d I Y punk records. So cool um.

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Speaker 1: Not only that, but zines were very important early on

416
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Speaker 1: in the punk and really kind of a lot of

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Speaker 1: music genres. Zines were really big. Which are these, you know,

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Speaker 1: fan made magazines. Yeah, maybe with like photocopy, not even photocopy,

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Speaker 1: like mimiograph stuff. Ye, And you would just pronount your

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Speaker 1: zine and some of these zanes got to be pretty

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Speaker 1: big and they would attach distribution to the zines sometimes

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Speaker 1: and sneak forty not sneaking, but a pack of forty

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Speaker 1: five in the zine. And that's how you could release

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Speaker 1: your stuff. And it was just this uh. Again, it

425
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 1: sounds so trite to say, very punk rock attitude, but

426
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 1: that's exactly what it was. The way they were doing

427
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 1: things was all under the radar, all on their own, uh.

428
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 1: And that changed pretty quickly. It did is because the

429
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 1: big the big players came in. They smelled money, they

430
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 1: smelled something new, the next big thing, and they started

431
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,119
Speaker 1: signing everybody they could left and right. And these punks

432
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 1: were going like nah, bollocks. I don't want your money.

433
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 1: They're like, what if we pay you in heroin? He's

434
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: like okay, yeah, I like you put it that way.

435
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: You could buy drugs with money, right, So um again.

436
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: Within six months of what most people point to as

437
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 1: the source of UK punk, that one specific show by

438
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 1: the sex Pistols, The sex Pistons were so new. Sid

439
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: Vicious wasn't even in the band. He was still Susie

440
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 1: and the Banshee's drummer. He so this is how young

441
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: this stuff was. Within six months, they were signed on

442
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 1: to a major record label. The Clash was signed on

443
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: to a major record label. The Fall, the Jam, the Stranglers,

444
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 1: everybody got signed in this feeding frenzy where everyone who

445
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: had a punk band could get a record deal with

446
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 1: a major label. Six months after, the sex Epistols had

447
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 1: their first show, Yeah, Generation X with a young Billy idol, Uh,

448
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 1: which I did ever do? That? Dancing with Myself was

449
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 1: originally a Generation X song. They released it, then he

450
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: re released it as a solo artist like a year

451
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,400
Speaker 1: later and it became a much bigger hit. Sure, they

452
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: were like thanks a lot, but yeah, sex Pistols went

453
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 1: with E M I. Um, the Stranglers at you A,

454
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: The Clash signed to CBS, the Jam went to Polydor

455
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: Generation X, and Stiff Little Fingers went to Chrysalis and

456
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 1: even the Buzz Cox. They were very quick to hop

457
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: on that train too, with United Artists, which actually that's

458
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: not too bad. You could have signed with worse because

459
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: United Artists was started by Mary Pickford, Douglas Fairbanks, um,

460
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: Charlie Chaplin, indeed W Griffith so that artists could have

461
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 1: more control and ownership over their work. Yeah, I mean

462
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: it was a movie company, and I guess they dabbled

463
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: in records. So one of three things happened basically to

464
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 1: the little d I Y small label movement. Um you

465
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 1: either got Pilford, they'd use one example in Belfast the

466
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: Good Vibrations label. Four of its first six bands were

467
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 1: stolen away or signed away. I guess. So either got

468
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 1: Pilford and then just shut down and gave up um

469
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,520
Speaker 1: or you grew and got bigger to where you were,

470
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 1: you know, like Rough Trade and Factory Records. Those all

471
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: became like bigger independent labels. Yeah, Rough Trade still around.

472
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 1: Sure they have state of the art, cutting edge bands.

473
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:49,120
Speaker 1: It's great. Um Or they stayed small and just kept

474
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: going right. They went punk and went back underground. Yeah, Like,

475
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 1: so they didn't all go away. They didn't all say,

476
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 1: you know, we're all getting Pilford, so we're just gonna

477
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 1: shut down. They would just find more underground bands and

478
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: go deeper and deeper and deeper. But then, um, something

479
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: happened in nineteen seventy nine, In February of nineteen seventy

480
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: nine that a lot of people point to. Just as

481
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: they point to that first Sex Pistols show as the

482
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: beginning of punk in the UK, they point to the

483
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: death of Sid Vicious as the end of punk, at

484
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 1: least the first wave of punk. His death from a

485
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: heroin overdose um is widely pointed to as as the

486
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 1: death of punk, which is a really dumb thing to say,

487
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: because punk very clearly went on. But what I think

488
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: people are saying, sorry, I guess it's not entirely dumb

489
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: now that I say it out loud, But what people

490
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: are saying is is that punk transformed into something else,

491
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: and that punk really as as it originally existed, was

492
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: only around for about two three years, maybe four or five.

493
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: Some people at a bar right now that are just

494
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 1: saying that over and over again. Punk only the last

495
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: said three years. Okay, well, I agree with you, drunk

496
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: person in this sense, but it's not like punk went away.

497
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: It transformed and became something else. And so what it

498
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: transitioned into is commonly called hardcore hardcore punk, where stuff

499
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: just got faster, louder, a little angrier. Yeah. Um, and

500
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: it just went in in a different direction, predominantly in

501
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: the United States. Yeah, and there were there were a

502
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 1: couple of scenes. Um, the l A scene had already

503
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: sort of been born by the late seventies. Uh, if

504
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: you haven't seen it, The great documentary from Penelope spheris

505
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: The Decline of Western Civilization releasing eighty one, but filmed

506
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: over I think maybe covered the l A scene. And

507
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: that's the germs and uh like I think Blondie and

508
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: the Go Goes and stuff like that, all right, and

509
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: Jerks York the best sets ever in the Decline of

510
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: Western Civilization. Yes, it's very good. And the germs too,

511
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: That's where I was. I was watching some of that

512
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: today and that's when I knew I didn't like the germs, right.

513
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: But Pat Smir of course, the food Fighters, he was

514
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: in the germs. You know he likes money. And also

515
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: if you're like, who's Penelope Spies? You may be familiar

516
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: with their work if you've seen the movie Wayne's World,

517
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: that's right, or the movie Black Sheet, the Chris Farley

518
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: David Spade movie, or The Decline of Western Civilization. I

519
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: think she'd ended up doing like three or four of those, right,

520
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: at least three, because I know she didn't want to metal.

521
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: The second one was metal, which is good too. Yeah,

522
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: that's the only two I saw. Did you ever see

523
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: that documentary about um heavy Metal Parking Lot? Yes, yeah,

524
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: where everybody's smoking PCP at did Judas Priest concert. Ye,

525
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: it's pretty great. Did you know early eighties metal head

526
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: smoked PCP? No, I didn't until a documentary because it

527
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: was quite a surprise. I was scared of all those people. Well,

528
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: they're kind of scary because they were all on PCP,

529
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: especially when you're like eight or ten. Scary. So American. Uh,

530
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: we were talking about the you know, punk bands releasing

531
00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: their own albums. This started happening on the West coast. Um.

532
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: They started forming their own labels even to release their

533
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: albums and sign other like bands like SST very famous

534
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: punk label was started from the guy, the original guy

535
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: from Black Flag, right, yes, uh, what's his name? Greg

536
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: g I N n either again or Jin I'm sorry punkers,

537
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: I know you're mad at me right now that I

538
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: don't know this. Yeah, I think he was like the

539
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: founder of Black Flag Okay, Jello Biafro of course, um

540
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: Dead Kennedy's they formed or he formed Alternative Tentacles. Yeah,

541
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: in nine nine and seventy nine was a big year

542
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: because that's the same year that a band called Bad

543
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: Brains came out and Washington d C. Which I didn't love.

544
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: Did you see the Dave Gold documentary series? So I

545
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: can't remember what it was called, but he did this

546
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: like ten part documentary series where he would do the

547
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: music of a different city and it was really really good,

548
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: except for the last like fifteen minutes of it. He

549
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 1: would get the food Fighters together in a studio and

550
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: they would play like some of those songs, and if

551
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: you're really into the Food Fighters, I imagine you loved

552
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: it all. Not into the Food Fighters, so I would

553
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: just stop it there. But he does Seattle. But what

554
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: got me on this was one of the most interesting

555
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,719
Speaker 1: episodes was the Washington DC episode because I didn't know

556
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: it was such a hardcore scene. Like that's where when

557
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: people talk about hardcore, yeah, they're like, well d C

558
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,479
Speaker 1: is kind of the cradle of it and Bad Brains,

559
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: which my friend Jason Jenkins in college introduced me to,

560
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: and that's when it was like really fast, had a

561
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: little metal edge, but Bad Brains was also started out

562
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,959
Speaker 1: as like jazz fusion and had reggae roots, also African

563
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: American guys. Yeah, and um, really really good stuff. Yeah.

564
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: So you've got at the same time, l A and

565
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: d C as the new like seats of punk music

566
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: in the USA, punk slash, hardcore, and it's going it's

567
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: going like way more hardcore, way more masculine, way more

568
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: macho than the UK went. The UK went a different route.

569
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: They went way more political, way more like class struggle. Um,

570
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: and there's there's definitely lots of political threads that um,

571
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: American punk music went through, but I think the UK

572
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,040
Speaker 1: went to it earlier. Like Crass is a great great

573
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: punk band from the UK. Um, they're kind of like, uh,

574
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: they're just great, check them out. Um, but they were

575
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: doing like anarchy stuff in the seventies. Yeah, the clash

576
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: certainly is notable for their political statement, very political um.

577
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: And then you've got like the Six Sex Pistols talking

578
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: about anarchy in the UK. They didn't really mean it,

579
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: they were just saying something right, um. But there were

580
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: a lot of like politically motivated bands in the UK

581
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: in the early seventies that didn't pick up till later

582
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: in the eighties in the US because certainly were not political.

583
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: They were not political. But the other thing, the other

584
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 1: differentiation I saw between UK and US punk was that

585
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,239
Speaker 1: UK punk didn't take itself quite as seriously as the

586
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: US started to in the late seventies early eighties, and

587
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: that this guy I read I think a Guardian article

588
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: trace that back to a love of glam rock. That

589
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: glam rock really led to punk, especially in the UK,

590
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: and if you're into glam rock, you just can't quite

591
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: take anything fully seriously, including punk music and the the US,

592
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: even though punk came out of the New York Dolls

593
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: in part um, which was definitely glam rock, um, it

594
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: just didn't have that that through thread. So it did

595
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: get taken way more seriously and that was a big

596
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 1: part of hardcore and what differentiated it from the earlier

597
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: punk taking things really really seriously and it being a

598
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: little more political than ever before and um angsty against

599
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: things like the boredom of suburban life. Yeah, I mean,

600
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: I think punk is just as important for things that

601
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: it uh inspired that happened afterward as it was the

602
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: actual movement itself, because you can point to stuff in

603
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: Minneapolis like Whosker Do or bands like the Minutemen, who

604
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 1: I loved and they had a very punk sound to them,

605
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 1: and maybe you're even considered punk, probably post punk post

606
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: I think Mini Men are considered punk, but Whosker Do

607
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: would definitely be post post punk, and stuff like Sonic Youth,

608
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 1: which I would call them post punk to post punk,

609
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: straddling into the early grunge though too. Well. Yeah, I

610
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: mean it's like it's hard to it's easy sometimes to

611
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: trace that through line, and sometimes it's really difficult. But

612
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: we want to we want to be able to say, like,

613
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: you know, it went from um from Bad Brains to

614
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: Hoosker Do to Sonic Youth to Nirvana, you know, four

615
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: Degrees of Nirvana three days and they're going, what about us,

616
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: right exactly? Um, but you just you can't. But at

617
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: the same time, you also can't discount the effects that

618
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: these later bands um got from the earth listening to

619
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: the earlier bands that came before him. There's undoubtedly an influence.

620
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: It's just not quite as crisp and clean as as

621
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: we like to make it. Yeah, And it's even argued

622
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 1: in one of these articles that the the birth of

623
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: hardcore came about because, like you kind of teased earlier on,

624
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: because punk, you know, flouts the rules and norms of

625
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: rock and roll. Then they formed their own rules and norms,

626
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: and we're really pretty serious about it, and so hardcore

627
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 1: came along because they didn't quite fit in with that,

628
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:39,240
Speaker 1: the true punk aesthetic. They took punk even further because

629
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 1: punk was being commodified and commercialized otherwise, that's right, which

630
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,800
Speaker 1: would make it kind of easier to break from, especially

631
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,839
Speaker 1: if you just go slightly angrier and faster and louder. Right,

632
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: But you also can look at the stuff like you

633
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: talk about tracing the through line, UM, if you want

634
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,720
Speaker 1: to think about early Manchester and stuff like Joy Division

635
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: that goes to New Order that goes to Orchestral Maneuvers

636
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: in the Dark and Simple Minds and all of a sudden,

637
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: it's a John Hughes soundtrack and it's hard. It's then

638
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: it's like, what is punk about anything? And that like

639
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: sort of softer new wave. But at the same time

640
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: you can also say, well, New Order was just straight

641
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: up new wave, but then new wave caught on and

642
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 1: got commercialized and commodified, and then you end up having

643
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 1: a John Hughes soundtrack because the record labels got ahold

644
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: of the new wave band. Right. So that's kind of

645
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 1: like the story with music is somebody comes up with

646
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: something raw and organic and rebellious, everybody loves it, The

647
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: big guys come along, get their hands on it, co opted,

648
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: commodify it, commercialize it, ruin it, and then some thread

649
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: kind of jumps off of that and it starts something else,

650
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: and the whole thing always it just continues on and

651
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: continues on, except until the mid two thousands when music

652
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,839
Speaker 1: died forever and ever and ever. Alright, well, let's take

653
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: another break here and we'll talk a little bit about

654
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,279
Speaker 1: the end of punk, and before that, maybe we'll hit

655
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: on the fashion of punk. Oh boy, okay, chuck um,

656
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 1: we're talking fashion of punk. Yeah, so, every every genre

657
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: has its own look, well, I cannot remember what it

658
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 1: had to have been. The safety pin short stuff, where

659
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,879
Speaker 1: we talked about Richard Hell being considered the guy who

660
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 1: started the safety pin as a fashion statement. Pretty shut,

661
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: but it was Richard Hell. He was the guitarist for

662
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 1: television and he was like the first guy with the mohawk,

663
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 1: like the Elmer's glue kind of mohawk and safety pins

664
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 1: holding his shirt together, which is I mean, that's quintessential punk.

665
00:37:57,640 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 1: But at the same time, dressing like a Ramon as

666
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: in essential punk too, with like the jeans with the

667
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: knees in it, black jeans Doc Martin's, or Converse low

668
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: tops or Converse high tops. Uh, black biker jacket. Yeah.

669
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: The New York Dolls were very famous for wearing the

670
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: jean jackets super super small. That jokes in this article

671
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: that they could barely fit in them, right. They also

672
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 1: wore super tight lycra shiny pants and stuff too, Yeah,

673
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 1: but they were glam but that it was really those

674
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: black ripped jeans, and this was a time where that

675
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: wasn't like the cool thing to wear if you you

676
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,879
Speaker 1: didn't walk around with holes. And you know, now it's

677
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 1: become a recurring thing in fashion to have holes in

678
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 1: your jeans being cool. At the time, it was not cool.

679
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 1: To admit that you were poor exactly. Man. This was

680
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: like somebody in this article I think from Pitchfork said,

681
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 1: you know, Dee de Ramon had uh um holes in

682
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: the knees of his jeans, not because it was cool,

683
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: but because he didn't have any money for some new

684
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: genes and those his jeans ha had holes in them.

685
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,320
Speaker 1: So that's what he wore. Now you pay like a

686
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 1: hundred or two hundred bucks for genes that have pre

687
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: ripped holes that are just right. Yeah, that's a perfect

688
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,359
Speaker 1: example of the commodity commoditization of punk. Yeah, for sure.

689
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: Uh other you know, in l A, they have their

690
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: own fashion scene going on because it's l A and

691
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 1: they don't have harsh winters and cold, rainy weather, so

692
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 1: they went to the thrift stores and bought things and

693
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,879
Speaker 1: cut them up. And that's where you you never saw

694
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 1: a shirt on a punk in the l A scene

695
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: that didn't have like the net cut out or the

696
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 1: sleeves cut off, or in the case of the Go

697
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: Goes in their earlier punk days, wearing like literal trash

698
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 1: bags as fashion, very funny and blondie too. They all

699
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: had a very like specific aesthetic. In Los Angeles. It's

700
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: interesting that the Go Go started out on the punk

701
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: scene and when they were I think to the casual

702
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 1: music fan, known very much for just sort of a

703
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: bubblegum sing along pop hits, that they had just lovable

704
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 1: as all get out as all get out great songs.

705
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: And Bolen and Carlisle too, like her solo stuff is yeah,

706
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 1: just kiss everybody. You couldn't see that, but that's what

707
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,280
Speaker 1: I gave. But it's that whole pop punk thing, which

708
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 1: is kind of where it started to go bad. You

709
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: could make the case that starting in the beginning of seven,

710
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: when all those first record labels came in, it started

711
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: to go bad then. But hardcore here's this is where

712
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: I This is my reading of this, okay, And I'm

713
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 1: not a punk or even music historian by any stretch

714
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 1: of the imagination, but from what I gathered from this

715
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: research is that early punk got co opted and commodified

716
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: by the record labels immediately hardcore grew out of that.

717
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: Hardcore is way harder to co modify because it's much

718
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 1: more raw than it's much less melodic. It's much more

719
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: in your face and angry than the original punk was.

720
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 1: And it's also jealously guarded and defended by the fans,

721
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 1: where at the beginning of the show we're saying, please

722
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 1: don't beat us up, Like if you go to a

723
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: hardcore show and they think your opposer, like, you may

724
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: get beaten up. If this is the eighties or the nineties,

725
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 1: I don't know if they still do it today. I

726
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: remember feeling that threat. Oh yeah, it was, but the

727
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: punks at the school, like you didn't want to cross him.

728
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: It was part of being a punk, was like you

729
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: beat somebody up to basically defend punk them to keep

730
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:41,439
Speaker 1: it from getting commodified, Like like seeing kids like wear

731
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: Thrasher T shirts today and they have no idea what

732
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: Thrasher is. Like it's like if you did that with

733
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 1: punk in the eighties and nineties, you would get beaten up,

734
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: maybe even at school, definitely at a punk show. And

735
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: so in doing so, they were able to defend hardcore

736
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 1: from commoditization because they kept it their own violently. But

737
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 1: at the same time they also it's kind of like

738
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,839
Speaker 1: how a language evolves the more people speak it and

739
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 1: the more free and easy the rules on it are.

740
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: By by putting these very tight restrictions on what's punk

741
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 1: and what's not punking? Who's allowed to come to a

742
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: punk show, which is super ironic for punks to do.

743
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 1: To come up with all these rules and regulations, they

744
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: kept it from evolving, and they definitely kept it underground.

745
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 1: And it's still around today, but it's the same thing

746
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 1: over and over again because it wasn't allowed to grow

747
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:34,919
Speaker 1: and evolved because the fans have kept it, at least

748
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 1: in America, have kept it underground, uh, purposefully, deliberately, invioluently.

749
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: So punk's killed punk kind of, they would argue, No

750
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 1: punks still around. I go see punk shows all the

751
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 1: time and don't come to it because your opposer and

752
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: will beat you up. So they're still punk. But as

753
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: far as like you and I walking around are concerned,

754
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: punk is dead as a doornail for now. For now, well,

755
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: I mean, I remember when we did our UK tour.

756
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: I remember we're seeing a group of punks in Manchester

757
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 1: that looked like they stepped right out of nine with

758
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: the full spiked mohawks and the leather studded leather collars.

759
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,879
Speaker 1: And I was scared of him then a little bit.

760
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:15,399
Speaker 1: You're like, those are bad kids, are going to try

761
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 1: to get me in town to do a podcast. Right, Well,

762
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 1: what's funny is is that fashion that you're talking about,

763
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:25,840
Speaker 1: that quintessential punk fashion that was a commodification immediately to

764
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: the sex Pistols. Manager used to be the manager of

765
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 1: the New York Dolls, Malcolm McLaren, and he owned a

766
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 1: shop Gonna b d S m Um fashion shop with

767
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: Vivian Westwood in London, and he basically used the sex

768
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,640
Speaker 1: Pistols to promote the fashion he was selling at his shop,

769
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,240
Speaker 1: to make it fashionable so we could sell more clothes.

770
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: This is the manager of the first UK punk band

771
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 1: ever well, and he had put them together, right. It's

772
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 1: not like essentially the sex Pistols all got together because

773
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,399
Speaker 1: they were mates. Like they were formed by a manager. Yes,

774
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 1: by this guy Malcolm. They were the monkeys kind of

775
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: were the monkeys of the punk They were the punkies.

776
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 1: So many people are mad at us right now, for sure,

777
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,280
Speaker 1: but it's true. I mean, go look up your history.

778
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: If your punks are gonna beat us up next time

779
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 1: we go ontoor. Some some thirteen year old just looked

780
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: down at the Sherwin. That's what the sex Pistols are.

781
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 1: I had no idea. Well, it's funny though you talk

782
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: about the the pins and the it was all homemade stuff,

783
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: Like I remember it being a very I mean, I

784
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:27,440
Speaker 1: was certainly way too square, but I remember seeing the

785
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: punks in my school doing stuff to their clothes during

786
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,399
Speaker 1: class and at lunch and thinking it was the coolest thing.

787
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,879
Speaker 1: Whether it was black magic, black sharpie doing the Dead

788
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 1: Kennedy's or the anarchy symbol. Well, the Dead Kennedys did

789
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: have the coolest symbol, right, it was pretty cool. Or

790
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,760
Speaker 1: just fraying their fraying their jackets or adding safety pins.

791
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 1: It was all It was all created out of that

792
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 1: homemade aesthetic sort of like the music and it and

793
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 1: it appealed to me, but I was afraid of it.

794
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: And now that's why I'm just now starting to listen

795
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: to some of this music. Are you going to turn

796
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: all punk now? Maybe? Okay, that would be one of

797
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: the bigger surprises you've ever laid on me, man. But

798
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 1: pop punk we should talk a little bit about. Um

799
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 1: they call it bitter sweet in this article. Um sweet

800
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 1: in the sense that you could get tons of money

801
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 1: and be super famous, but bitter because you know, it's

802
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: spawned a genre that I think a lot of true

803
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: punks really loathe like I think true punks like a

804
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 1: square more than they like blink On indubitably, you know, uh,

805
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 1: and that you know, that whole scene, the Van's Warped

806
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 1: Tour and Ransid and Offspring and Green Day and all

807
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 1: these groups was a part of a big second wave

808
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 1: of these kids who grew up definitely listening to that

809
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 1: stuff and I guess feeling like they were a part

810
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 1: of it. I mean, I'm sure green Day really feels

811
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 1: like they're a punk band and part of a punk movement,

812
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 1: Whereas I remember the first time I heard Green Day

813
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,879
Speaker 1: thinking these are guys pretending to be a punk band,

814
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: which is a really creuddy thing to say, but I

815
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 1: mean it is. It's like, it's totally understandable how you

816
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 1: would think that, but they they are. It is punk

817
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 1: in some way, shape or form. It's punk. The stuff

818
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 1: they're talking about is pretty punk. Um, but punk bands

819
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 1: don't release acoustic songs. Definitely not the first The first

820
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,720
Speaker 1: album Dookie, right, is what we're talking about. I guess

821
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 1: was that the first one? I think so. I just

822
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: remember hearing it and going like, why is that guy

823
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:30,839
Speaker 1: trying to sound British? Well, that's pretty punk. It's very punk, yeah,

824
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: for sure, an American kid trying to sound British so um,

825
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 1: but yeah, I don't. I would guess you're right though

826
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 1: there on Broadway punks for God's sake. Well, yeah, there

827
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: was a brief shining moment where you could have conceivably

828
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,879
Speaker 1: called them a punk band. Here's the thing though, man,

829
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 1: people like money. Yeah, but that's been a through not

830
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 1: just in the punk scene, but but it's just a

831
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: music in general. Although hats off to the punk culture

832
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 1: for keeping it at bay better than anybody ever has

833
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 1: any other genre I would like to hear. I'm sure

834
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 1: there are people listening that Noah, punk bands that did

835
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:10,360
Speaker 1: stick their middle finger up to the money and say nope,

836
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 1: I can tell you one. Fugazi H Well, I love

837
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 1: Fugazi DC or I guess hardcore. Um, and they I

838
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 1: think they formed Discord Records. If not, they're a big

839
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 1: act on Discord Records. And they have done this whole

840
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: d I Y thing, like from the get go. They've

841
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,279
Speaker 1: they've issued the major labels as far as I know

842
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 1: their whole career, and they were extremely successful despite that. Yeah,

843
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: I saw them in Athens once. Oh yeah, what do

844
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:41,840
Speaker 1: you think that was great? This is you know, I

845
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 1: think they got together in the like seven ish and

846
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 1: this was more like Okay, well, they were still huge

847
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 1: and probably bigger. That was when they were at their height,

848
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: I would guess. I mean, technically they had a I

849
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 1: don't know about how it performed on the literal charts,

850
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: but they had that one song that had a big

851
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 1: MTV hit, Waiting Room. Yeah, it's a good song. It's

852
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:06,800
Speaker 1: a really good song. Um. So I just want to

853
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: give some shouts out to anybody who's like, this is

854
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,879
Speaker 1: really interesting. I want to know more. Go listen to

855
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: the Cramps. I would recommend the Cramps, listen to Crass,

856
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:21,879
Speaker 1: Go watch the Decline of Western Civilization. Definitely check out

857
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 1: the Circle Jerks, Um who else, Chuck, I'm gonna say

858
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: that for my picks, Bad Brains, and the Damned. Okay,

859
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 1: I'm gonna toss g g Allen out there, although he

860
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: kind of transcends everything. Just punk and you. We were

861
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 1: sending me some um. I didn't catch any of the names,

862
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:41,800
Speaker 1: but she said there's a big punk scene in Japan still.

863
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,240
Speaker 1: And that was another thing too, is somebody said Punk's

864
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 1: not dying, It's just coming up in other places like

865
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 1: um in Islamic countries, there's a big punk movement. I

866
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 1: saw Mexico has got a big one right now. Apparently

867
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 1: Japan has it. And then there's a whole riot girl

868
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 1: feminist punk that is. Man. If that's not punk out

869
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: like Eastern block punk riot girls, I love it. So

870
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,120
Speaker 1: punk is still alive. Punk not dead. Punk no dead,

871
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 1: Punk's not dead. Okay, if you want to know more

872
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:13,839
Speaker 1: about punk music, go listen to that stuff we just

873
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: told you to go listen to. And since I said

874
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: that's time for listener, man, if you want to learn

875
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 1: more about punk music, you can probably go to literally

876
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 1: any other place other than this episode and learn more

877
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 1: about punk music. If you want to know more about

878
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 1: punk music, go to your local library and read up.

879
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 1: It's fundamental. Al Right, guys, I'm gonna call this poop. Nope,

880
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 1: no poop. On that short stuff about the guy who

881
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 1: didn't eat for a year. Uh, we talked about the

882
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 1: fact that he didn't poop that much, and she said

883
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:48,399
Speaker 1: this is the norm for people with a colostomy or iliostomy.

884
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 1: I had a temporary iliostomy and ostomy connected to the

885
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 1: ilium instead of the colon. Due to crone's complications. My

886
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: colon was completely severed from the rest of my digestive

887
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:02,800
Speaker 1: system during this time and basically sat dormant while food

888
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 1: exited into an ostomy pouch. No food means no poop,

889
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 1: but the body still produces the normal gut stuff like

890
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 1: mucus and cells and needs to evacuate on occasion, which

891
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: I think that's what we talked about. For people with

892
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 1: years about issues such as pain and running to the

893
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: bathroom every thirty minutes. This can be a literal lifesaver. Anyway,

894
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: my colon is currently now reattached to the rest of

895
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: my intestine and my crones is in remission. I had

896
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 1: no idea. So this person had a colostomy and had

897
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 1: it was reversed. Yes, that's I had no idea they

898
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: could do that. Yeah, we should do something on crones

899
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: and just tie all the stuff together. I just wanted

900
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,280
Speaker 1: to give you a little perspective on the topic. Um. Actually,

901
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:46,479
Speaker 1: ostomy's would be an interesting topic for you to tackle.

902
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 1: Thanks for doing the best podcast around. According to my

903
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: podcast app, I've listened to over four hundred episodes. Yikes, Well,

904
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 1: Sonia in Canada, you have another what seven fifty, eight hundred?

905
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:02,280
Speaker 1: What are we up to? Now? What a number of episodes?

906
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 1: Eight fifty we're up to? Like, well, she's listening to

907
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 1: four hundred. Okay, so just do a little math. Oh okay,

908
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:12,320
Speaker 1: hold on, I can do so another like eight hundred

909
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 1: or so. Yeah, I would say something, all right, Well,

910
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 1: you're a third of the way there, keep at it. Yeah, roughly, yeah,

911
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 1: you got a third. And you guys should have just

912
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:23,719
Speaker 1: seen Chuck like look up in the air from the

913
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: side of his eye. She said, we'd love to see

914
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 1: you to the come out to the Prairie provinces. So

915
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 1: I know in Canada we do Toronto and Vancouver, but

916
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:33,320
Speaker 1: there's a lot of country in the middle there that

917
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 1: we should probably go to at some point. In the US,

918
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 1: we'd call them flyover states. In Canada they call it

919
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 1: prairie country. Right. Well, if you want to get in

920
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 1: touch with this, like did Sonia, thanks again, sonja Um,

921
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 1: you can go on to stuff you Should Know dot

922
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 1: com and check out our social links, and you can

923
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 1: also send us an email to stuff podcast at iHeart

924
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 1: radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production

925
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts, my Heart Radio

926
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever

927
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. H