Speaker 1: Hey everyone, I'm so excited because we're going to be
Speaker 1: adding a really special offering onto the back of my
Speaker 1: solo episodes on Fridays. The Daily Jay is a daily
Speaker 1: series on Calm and it's meant to inspire you while
Speaker 1: outlining tools and techniques to live a more mindful, stress
Speaker 1: free life. We dive into a range of topics and
Speaker 1: the best part is each episode is only seven minutes long,
Speaker 1: so you can incorporate it into your schedule no matter
Speaker 1: how busy you are. As a dedicated part of the
Speaker 1: on Purpose community, I wanted to do something special for
Speaker 1: you this year, so I'll be playing a handpicked Daily
Speaker 1: Jay during each of my Friday podcasts. This week, we're
Speaker 1: tackling the topic of mindset and how to approach life
Speaker 1: with focus, perspective, and positivity. Of course, if you want
Speaker 1: to listen to The Daily Jay every day, you have
Speaker 1: to subscribe to Calm, So go to calm dot com
Speaker 1: forward slash j for forty percent off your membership today.
Speaker 2: Hi that season, Welcome to a brand new almost adulting,
Speaker 2: the largest self love podcast and movement, your number one
Speaker 2: destination for personal growth and mental health. I'm your big
Speaker 2: sister and your host Bioletta. So our guest today is
Speaker 2: Jay Shaddy. He is the number one New York Times
Speaker 2: best selling author of the books Think Like a Monk
Speaker 2: and his newest one, which we'll discuss today, A Rules
Speaker 2: of Love. He's also the host of the award winning
Speaker 2: podcast On Purpose and Chief Purpose officer of Calm Welcome.
Speaker 1: Hey, thank you so much for having me. It's so
Speaker 1: nice to be in your home. I appreciate it. Thank
Speaker 1: you for being so welcoming and gracious.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I also love that your eyes match. You're
Speaker 2: sure looks really good.
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 2: You know, only two percent of people in the world
Speaker 2: have green eyes.
Speaker 1: I did not know that. Is that true?
Speaker 2: Are you joking?
Speaker 1: I genuinely did not know that.
Speaker 2: Oh. I just assume anyone agreed you were part of
Speaker 2: the two percent?
Speaker 1: Yeah, my wife, Oh, you're right, Okay, do you have
Speaker 1: green eyes?
Speaker 2: Maybe? God? Okay, then it would just seemed like everyone has. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's so funny. I actually not know that. I feel
Speaker 2: like normally people with a blue or green eyes were like,
Speaker 2: look in my eyes.
Speaker 1: It's so funny. I feel like when you grow up
Speaker 1: with something, whether it's eyes or a skill, or whatever
Speaker 1: it maybe you don't notice it, like you don't notice
Speaker 1: it as much when you have something. You notice it
Speaker 1: when other people notice it, because yeah, you kind of
Speaker 1: see as normal.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I guess I guess you're right. That's true.
Speaker 2: All right, So I'm just shallow, not cool? No, okay,
Speaker 2: So before we dive into your book, which we have
Speaker 2: here if you're watching the video, this is right here.
Speaker 2: It's an awesome book and I've been loving it. But
Speaker 2: before we dive into the book, I thought it'd be
Speaker 2: nice to kind of get to know you, since on
Speaker 2: your show a lot of the time you dive into
Speaker 2: your guests, So I thought this was finding that.
Speaker 1: Let's do it.
Speaker 2: Your journey has taken you from being a monk to
Speaker 2: becoming a popular motivational speaker, New York Times bestselling author,
Speaker 2: and I was kind of wondering, how did you make
Speaker 2: that transition and what was the biggest challenge you would
Speaker 2: say that you face during that process.
Speaker 1: I mean, the transition is like you're looking at like
Speaker 1: ten years, you know, of time in between. So I
Speaker 1: left the monastery exactly ten years ago right now, and
Speaker 1: so the journey you see is like it looks quick
Speaker 1: online sometimes, but then the actual journey is so much
Speaker 1: more slower and harder. And I'd said the transition happened
Speaker 1: in so many different phases, and that's kind of how
Speaker 1: I think a lot of our life transitions happened. So
Speaker 1: when I left the monastery, I ended up moving back
Speaker 1: in with my parents in London, and for like twelve
Speaker 1: months I was just struggling to find work. No one
Speaker 1: wanted to hire someone who had been a monk before.
Speaker 1: People were like, what are your transferable skills? Sitting still
Speaker 1: and being silent, Like, we don't need that, right, And
Speaker 1: so I just spent a lot of time like trying
Speaker 1: to find myself again, reconnect again. I'd forgotten how to
Speaker 1: do small talk. This would have been really tough for
Speaker 1: me to do like I would have. I didn't know
Speaker 1: who the Prime Minister of England was. I didn't know
Speaker 1: who won the World Cup. I didn't know what the
Speaker 1: latest movies were or music was. I had no idea,
Speaker 1: And so there was a whole period that was just reconnecting.
Speaker 1: And so the version of me you see today is
Speaker 1: like going back to being myself and reconnected again. But
Speaker 1: at that time, there was this whole phase of just
Speaker 1: reintegration and reconnecting with society. And then after that, I
Speaker 1: went back into the world of work, which really helped
Speaker 1: me kind of get a sense of what was going
Speaker 1: on and how things were. And then after working in
Speaker 1: the corporate world for around two three years, that's when
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't feel like this is my purpose.
Speaker 1: I don't feel like this is what I was meant
Speaker 1: to do. I feel like I had that experience because
Speaker 1: I wanted to share what I'd learned to help people.
Speaker 1: I've learned all these amazing techniques like meditation and mindfulness,
Speaker 1: and I've learned so many disciplines, and I've learned so
Speaker 1: much incredible wisdom from this experience. My goal must be
Speaker 1: to have to share it with people, right And I
Speaker 1: was sharing it while I was working in the companies
Speaker 1: and everything. So the biggest challenge I'd say I've had,
Speaker 1: which I think hopefully will relate to the people that
Speaker 1: are watching and listening right now, is allowing yourself to change,
Speaker 1: allowing your self to say I want to be more. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's okay to want to transform and change and grow.
Speaker 1: I don't have to stay stuck. I don't have to
Speaker 1: stay the same. If I don't want to. And I
Speaker 1: think that's the greatest challenge that you go through, is
Speaker 1: allowing yourself, giving yourself the permission to be more of who.
Speaker 2: You are, right Because normally before you make that decision
Speaker 2: or say that to yourself, a lot of times people
Speaker 2: first look at that as failure. They think, oh, I
Speaker 2: failed exactly, versus saying I'm allowed to change my mind anytime,
Speaker 2: or I'm allowed to wake up today and decide that
Speaker 2: this is not enough for me. So how do you
Speaker 2: kind of switch from feeling like a failure or not
Speaker 2: enough versus being like, no, this is just you know,
Speaker 2: rock bottom, just only up from here.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I look at it as how much time
Speaker 1: we have, right, Like, I think that a lot of
Speaker 1: us don't recognize a lot of us now today feel like, gosh,
Speaker 1: I'm getting old. And it's like we're not even that old, right, true,
Speaker 1: Like you're in your thirties, your forties, or even your fifties,
Speaker 1: and if you're in your twenties, definitely definitely not. And
Speaker 1: if you're in your teens, you're definitely not. And it's
Speaker 1: like we start putting this timeline and deadline on where
Speaker 1: we're at, and I kind of look at life and
Speaker 1: go There is no timeline or deadline. There is no schedule,
Speaker 1: and I think we think about life as a schedule
Speaker 1: because someone in our life told us go to college,
Speaker 1: get a good job, get married, buy a house, like whatever.
Speaker 1: It is. Right, there was this laid out plan, and
Speaker 1: we're measuring ourselves according to that plan, as opposed to saying,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, there is no plan. I can only
Speaker 1: live my life. And so I think we have to
Speaker 1: disconnect from society's approach to what life should look like
Speaker 1: and recognize there is no should look like. There's only
Speaker 1: the life you want to live.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I agree, over the course of your career, of
Speaker 2: everything you've done. But would you say the worst advice
Speaker 2: you've ever gone.
Speaker 1: Ah, that's a good question. I'd actually say it applies
Speaker 1: to that. The worst advice I've ever got is you're
Speaker 1: too old, you're too young, you're too early, you're too late,
Speaker 1: you're too underco you too overqualified. I feel like we
Speaker 1: put these extremes on we put these limits, boundaries, deadlines,
Speaker 1: schedules onto people, and I think that's bad advice. The
Speaker 1: amount of people that have said to me, Jay, I
Speaker 1: think you're too old to be doing this, or you're
Speaker 1: too young to be doing this, or Jay, you know what,
Speaker 1: you're just too underqualified for this role. Like I think
Speaker 1: I've heard that so many times, and I think we
Speaker 1: start to internalize these statements and then we give up
Speaker 1: on our dreams or the things that are important to us.
Speaker 1: And I think we live in a world right now
Speaker 1: where I see you know, you see seventy year old YouTubers,
Speaker 1: you see you know, you see ten year old YouTubers.
Speaker 1: You see people doing things as in when they want
Speaker 1: and can, And I think we've changed. I think the
Speaker 1: world has shifted and changed where like someone may say, well,
Speaker 1: I wanted to be an athlete and I'm too old
Speaker 1: to be a premier league football player. Sure, but that
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you can't play football on the weekends or
Speaker 1: the evenings, or it doesn't stop you from doing what
Speaker 1: you want to do. And I think that's the worst
Speaker 1: advice that I've ever heard of, Like, it's not going
Speaker 1: to work. That's not a good idea. It's only not
Speaker 1: a good idea if you don't try it out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean my mom, whenever I'm afraid of doing anything,
Speaker 2: my mom always taught me that I'm only quote unquote
Speaker 2: a loser because I've always get scared of being a loser.
Speaker 2: If I fail people, everyone will know. But she said,
Speaker 2: you're only a loser if you don't try. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: I agree. Do you feel that sometimes when people give
Speaker 2: you that advice you're too young or too old this,
Speaker 2: and that is because they're projecting because they're scared they
Speaker 2: can never do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it comes and I have compassion for
Speaker 1: that because I think we all project our limits onto
Speaker 1: other people, and we all project our insecurities onto other people.
Speaker 1: It's like if your friend says to you, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: thinking about moving country and you've thought about it before,
Speaker 1: but you don't think it's a good idea or you're
Speaker 1: scared about it now. When they say, you go, oh no, no,
Speaker 1: but have you thought about this, this and this, and
Speaker 1: you like, you give them your thought process and they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but those are not things I worry about. So I
Speaker 1: think a lot of us, when we're giving advice or
Speaker 1: receiving advice, need to recognize we need to not project
Speaker 1: our insecurities and our issues onto other people. And saying,
Speaker 1: when you hear advice from other people, make sure that
Speaker 1: you're not just adopting their insecurities and their issues. You
Speaker 1: have to filter that out for yourself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. When my family and I won the
Speaker 2: Green Card lottery, all of our family members sold us
Speaker 2: not to move. It would be so stupid from my
Speaker 2: father this age. He was in his fifties, and thank god,
Speaker 2: my dad didn't listen, and he moved our family to
Speaker 2: the US, and then everyone else wanted to follow our
Speaker 2: footsteps afterwards.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. That's a great example, right, And I think
Speaker 1: that happens with everything. It's like your friend says to you,
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm thinking of quitting my job, and
Speaker 1: I want to start a podcast, or I want to
Speaker 1: you know, whatever it may be. Now, you've also got
Speaker 1: to understand that when your friend projects their issues and insecurities,
Speaker 1: we shouldn't be upset about that. It's just someone trying
Speaker 1: to care for you and they're trying to show you
Speaker 1: love or they're looking out for you. And often thinking
Speaker 1: it through is actually pretty helpful. Because I also think
Speaker 1: we live in a world that you know, I feel
Speaker 1: like we also just take these big rush changes as well,
Speaker 1: Like I think a lot of us are also living
Speaker 1: the other extreme, where it's like, Oh, I'm just going
Speaker 1: to do it anyway, it doesn't matter. Yeah, And it's like,
Speaker 1: maybe the middle approach is better. Like when I was
Speaker 1: trying to find my passion in my purpose, I was
Speaker 1: also working a day job that paid my bills, and
Speaker 1: I spend my evenings and weekends doing what I love.
Speaker 1: And I think that that transition's healthy because it provides safety,
Speaker 1: it provides support, Whereas if I would have just thrown
Speaker 1: everything away and made this jump, maybe it wouldn't have
Speaker 1: worked because you don't create great work out of scarcity.
Speaker 1: You don't create great work out of fear and insecurity. Oh.
Speaker 2: I like that. That is a really good point. Also,
Speaker 2: like the fact that you looked at the other perspective
Speaker 2: of the fact that your friends or your family all
Speaker 2: that they're not coming from a bad place when they're
Speaker 2: giving you quote nquote poor advice. They're actually coming because
Speaker 2: that's all they know and they're just trying to be helpful.
Speaker 2: That's a nice perspect I just.
Speaker 1: Want to live with no bidterness in my heart. You know,
Speaker 1: I made that commitment a long time ago. I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to live having bitter feelings or negative
Speaker 1: feelings towards any person or any group of people, because
Speaker 1: it doesn't carry me well, Like, it doesn't make me
Speaker 1: feel good to walk around with a bitter heart.
Speaker 2: I like that, and I know you focus a lot
Speaker 2: about that, and I've spoken about that on my podcast
Speaker 2: as well, that people don't understand how much negative emotions
Speaker 2: can actually affect your to day life.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. I think there's three things that I talk
Speaker 1: about which I learned during my time in the monastery.
Speaker 1: It's in my first book, Think like a Monk. Our
Speaker 1: teachers would call it the cancers of the mind. And
Speaker 1: so they said, complaining, comparing, and criticizing with the cancers
Speaker 1: of the mind. When we complain reoccurringly, we lose control
Speaker 1: of the situation. When you're complaining, you're basically saying I
Speaker 1: can't influence this. So when you lose influence, you lose
Speaker 1: your ability to transform your life. When you compare, you're
Speaker 1: setting yourself up for failure. Because here's the thing. If
Speaker 1: you feel ahead of other people, you'll always feel behind
Speaker 1: other people in both ways. So if you're like I'm
Speaker 1: now feeling ahead of the pack, that means one day
Speaker 1: you'll feel behind. If you're saying now I'm number one,
Speaker 1: one day you'll feel like number two. And so when
Speaker 1: we place these comparisons, we think when we're at the top,
Speaker 1: it will feel amazing. It won't because if you lived
Speaker 1: your life on comparison, even if you're at the top,
Speaker 1: you're now insecure and unsettled because you're like, what if
Speaker 1: I lose this spot? And so comparing and then criticizing
Speaker 1: is probably the most obvious one out of all of them. Like,
Speaker 1: I remember when we were kids, we would watch people
Speaker 1: on TV, me and my friends, and we'd laugh at like,
Speaker 1: how's that person on TV? They're not even talented? Like
Speaker 1: who are they? Who do they think they are? But
Speaker 1: then what were we doing? We were just sitting on
Speaker 1: our couches. So I remember being that kid where we
Speaker 1: were just so critical of other people. And as time's
Speaker 1: gone on, I realized that but that person tried. They
Speaker 1: put themselves out there. Yes they may be made mistakes,
Speaker 1: Yeah they're probably not perfect, but at least they put
Speaker 1: themselves out there, whereas I'm sitting on the couch, you know,
Speaker 1: criticizing and so removing, complaining, comparing and criticizing. Now, that
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you can't open up to your friends. It
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you can't share how you feel like. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying you can't do any of that stuff, but
Speaker 1: I'm just saying being mindful of that can help.
Speaker 2: How do we then shift our mindset from being negative
Speaker 2: to weak? Because it's easier said than done to be like,
Speaker 2: oh today, I'm happy and everything's going to be good.
Speaker 2: And people, I think put too much weight on emotions
Speaker 2: in general. They think being sad or angry at whatever
Speaker 2: it is is negative, it's bad versus just passing emotion.
Speaker 2: So how do you kind of able to shift those feelings?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I feel like there's there's four things that
Speaker 1: we're experiencing at any moment, our thoughts, our actions, our feelings,
Speaker 1: and that in a sense of knowing that we all have.
Speaker 1: So you have your thinking, your behaving, your feeling, and
Speaker 1: your knowing. And what you just said is, and I
Speaker 1: agree with you, we place way too much emphasis on
Speaker 1: our feelings. And our feelings are like you just said,
Speaker 1: they're near, they can move, they can pass, they're here,
Speaker 1: they're gone. They change. But the way you change your
Speaker 1: feelings is not with how you feel. The way you
Speaker 1: change your feelings is by how you think, how you
Speaker 1: act and how you know, And so I spend more
Speaker 1: time trying to think. Am I happy with the thoughts
Speaker 1: in my head? Not? Am I feeling happy? Oh?
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 1: Am I happy with what I do with my day?
Speaker 2: Not?
Speaker 1: Am I feeling happy? Because if I change my thoughts
Speaker 1: and I change my actions, I will change how I feel.
Speaker 1: But I'm not going to change my feelings by my feelings.
Speaker 2: That's really interesting. That's a really good perspective.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah, I've been really spending a lot of
Speaker 1: time on that recently because I agree with you so
Speaker 1: much that I wake up feeling tired. Sometimes I wake
Speaker 1: up feeling like, oh I don't want to get up today.
Speaker 2: I have those feelings, those.
Speaker 1: Feelings, Yeah, I genuinely do, and I realized, but that feeling,
Speaker 1: I can't do anything with it. All I can do
Speaker 1: is accept it. I'm not going to pretend it's not there.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to pretend to be positive. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to say I'm Jay Shelley. I have to pretend
Speaker 1: to be positive. That's not going to help anyone. And
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say to anyone, Hey, just say something positive, dear,
Speaker 1: so I'll be happy. That doesn't work. That's toxic positivity.
Speaker 1: And so what I would suggest is focus on let
Speaker 1: me change my thoughts and let me change my actions.
Speaker 1: So if I now change my thought to be I
Speaker 1: am tired, but I will sleep early tonight. Right, I
Speaker 1: am feeling a bit upset this morning, I'll reflect for
Speaker 1: a few minutes today in journal to figure out what's
Speaker 1: going on. Right, all of a sudden, I've changed my
Speaker 1: thought from being I'm tired to I'm tired and I'll
Speaker 1: sleep early. And I've added a behavior which means my
Speaker 1: thoughts and behaviors will change how I feel.
Speaker 2: I love that, right, so, and as a solution, because
Speaker 2: I think a lot of times we don't realize that
Speaker 2: whatever we're feeling has to do with other things. Like
Speaker 2: for the longest time, I was anxious with driving, and
Speaker 2: I kept thinking it was because I was just scared
Speaker 2: of driving. And then I really sat I went backwards
Speaker 2: to figure out why am I so scared of driving?
Speaker 2: And I realized because when I get on the road,
Speaker 2: on the freeway specifically, I have no control over other people.
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, it's my control issues. And
Speaker 2: then once I processed, okay, I cannot control other people,
Speaker 2: I can control myself in my car. So once I
Speaker 2: came to that process, I realized, I'm not scared of driving.
Speaker 2: I'm just a control freak and I need to get
Speaker 2: over it.
Speaker 1: That's a great example, And that's a great example if
Speaker 1: you have to change your thoughts in order to change
Speaker 1: how you feel. You can't just say I'm going to
Speaker 1: be a good driver. I love driving. Everything's okay, Like
Speaker 1: you can't just say that. It doesn't solve the problem.
Speaker 1: So I love that example. That's a great.
Speaker 2: Example, right, But I don't think I always realize that.
Speaker 2: That's how I think. So I love the everything that
Speaker 2: you said because it's a reminder from myself because a
Speaker 2: lot of times I can be in my feelings and
Speaker 2: I love Yeah, I love the processing backwards. Okay, what
Speaker 2: can I do? What actions can I take to change this?
Speaker 2: I love that. So then, what would you say, in
Speaker 2: the course of your career, the best advice you've ever gone?
Speaker 2: I mean you have so many, that's a good.
Speaker 1: Guy, best advice I've ever got, and I want to
Speaker 1: give you something really special and thoughtful. So let me think.
Speaker 2: By the way, we have the same editor, so he
Speaker 2: knows exactly how to cut everything.
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, Oh, I love No, you can leave this
Speaker 1: in there. I like the reality of me thinking about
Speaker 1: something because I really want to honor it's a great question,
Speaker 1: and I don't just want to say something. It's like,
Speaker 1: I'd rather give you something that I really really feel
Speaker 1: is the best advice I've ever heard. I remember sitting
Speaker 1: with one of my mentors once he passed away from
Speaker 1: stage four brain cancer around three years ago, and losing
Speaker 1: him was tough because he was the first person i'd
Speaker 1: call when something good happened, and he'd be the person
Speaker 1: I want to share it with. And I remember, years
Speaker 1: before my external online journey happened, before people were aware
Speaker 1: of my work, I was sitting with him and I
Speaker 1: said to him, I said, I have so many ideas,
Speaker 1: and I have so many things I want to do,
Speaker 1: and I don't know where to start. And I think
Speaker 1: this is a common thing that I hear a lot
Speaker 1: of people say to me today, where it's like I
Speaker 1: could start a company, I can start this. I want
Speaker 1: to write a book, I want to do a podcast,
Speaker 1: I want to do social media. Whatever. It is that
Speaker 1: people have so many ideas, but it's like where do
Speaker 1: I start. And he said to me Jay. He said,
Speaker 1: he said start everything. He said open every door, and
Speaker 1: he said doors will naturally start to close or some
Speaker 1: won't open. Just keep walking through the ones that stay open.
Speaker 1: And if I look at the last five years of
Speaker 1: my life, seven years of my life that I've been
Speaker 1: doing this online externally, I can honestly say that that's
Speaker 1: all I've done. I've knocked on every door. Some have opened,
Speaker 1: some haven't, and some have opened and then later closed,
Speaker 1: and I've just kept walking through the ones that stay open.
Speaker 1: And the reason why I think it's the best advice
Speaker 1: I ever received is we often paralyze ourselves with procrastination
Speaker 1: of choice of what do I do, Where do I start,
Speaker 1: what's the perfect route, what's the perfect path, what's the
Speaker 1: right thing for me to do? And it's like you
Speaker 1: have no idea. You can only try everything and see
Speaker 1: what feels right and see what stays open. But it's
Speaker 1: not up to you to figure it out in your
Speaker 1: head what your purpose is. I think a lot of
Speaker 1: us are trying to figure out our passion, our purpose,
Speaker 1: our career path, our hobbies, everything in our head. And
Speaker 1: it's like you're not going to figure out in your head.
Speaker 1: You're going to see it unfold in front of you.
Speaker 1: And so I'd say that was the best advice I
Speaker 1: ever heard.
Speaker 2: That is actually beautiful, amazing advice, and I think it's
Speaker 2: always inspiring. I mean, you know in the back of
Speaker 2: your head that every person that you look up to,
Speaker 2: or every person that's out there that seems very successful,
Speaker 2: you know in the back of your head, oh, they
Speaker 2: must have failed once or twice, but you forget. So
Speaker 2: it's interesting whenever when I hear you speak and then
Speaker 2: you mentioned, oh, a lot of doors have closed, and
Speaker 2: then I just keep going for the ones to open.
Speaker 2: You're like, right, of course, I forget that for a second.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that pleased everyone. I can honestly say, with
Speaker 1: every person I know that is massively successful, and every
Speaker 1: person that I've worked with or coached or had on
Speaker 1: the podcast or whatever it may be, every single one
Speaker 1: of those people will say that they still have doors
Speaker 1: closed on them. So to speak of myself, there are
Speaker 1: people who are far more prolific in their fields that
Speaker 1: still go through the same thing. And I think that
Speaker 1: that actually is the reminder. Like to me, I love
Speaker 1: studying people's lives that I love, and I encourage everyone
Speaker 1: who admires anyone. Don't just watch that person's TV show
Speaker 1: and movie, don't just listen to their music, study their life, right,
Speaker 1: study their life, actually look at how they lived. So
Speaker 1: for me, I grew up studying Steve Jobs's life because
Speaker 1: I was a big fan of Steve Jobs. And if
Speaker 1: you look at the amount of failure that guy has
Speaker 1: had is insane. Like he got kicked out of his
Speaker 1: own company. Imagine building Apple and being kicked out of
Speaker 1: the company you build. I don't think there's a bigger
Speaker 1: failure than that, or a bigger rejection than that. Then
Speaker 1: he went and built Pixar and then went back to Apple. Like,
Speaker 1: it's an incredible story. And I think when you uncover that,
Speaker 1: you go, oh, well, if that hapen to Steve Jobs,
Speaker 1: then it's okay. If it happens to me, right, and
Speaker 1: you get used to it.
Speaker 2: I love that. Yeah, I love that you forget. Especially
Speaker 2: with social media now, a lot of times people just
Speaker 2: focus on everyone's highlight reels and they forget all the
Speaker 2: failing because no one's really gonna sit there, like, hey, guys,
Speaker 2: today really sucked. So like I haven't showered in four
Speaker 2: days anyway, by my book, like you're not gonna you know,
Speaker 2: it's hard to always be that open.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And also I think, like, stop just following people
Speaker 1: on Instagram, stop just watching people's TV shows, stop just
Speaker 1: watching people's movies, and listen to people's music. Study the
Speaker 1: lives of the people you love and admire. Study their lives,
Speaker 1: and that will inform your life's path so much more
Speaker 1: genuinely and authentically. Instead of just watching and following people,
Speaker 1: let's start understanding them so that we can follow in
Speaker 1: their footsteps in our own way, in our own lives.
Speaker 2: I like that. That's part of taking a chance on
Speaker 2: your own life versus just living through someone else's life exactly.
Speaker 2: I really like that. Okay, so then, what's one advice
Speaker 2: you've gone over the course of your career that you
Speaker 2: wish you would have listened to earlier?
Speaker 1: Oh? Great questions? All right, and I'm pronouncing your name Violetta.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, Violetta Violet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, no, I like saying it like I said.
Speaker 1: I all, I remember from my Russian classes thre Ust
Speaker 1: three minas Jay, that's so good. I remember. This is
Speaker 1: really embarrassing, but I was fifteen years old, so I
Speaker 1: was fifteen years old. When we studied Russian in school,
Speaker 1: we learned how to speak and write. I could speak
Speaker 1: and write fluently for that year, and we went to
Speaker 1: Russia on a school trip. So I went to Saint
Speaker 1: Petersburg in Moscow.
Speaker 2: I'm from Saint petersh Way.
Speaker 1: It's beautiful, like I loved. I literally fell in love
Speaker 1: with the Russia when I visited that.
Speaker 2: I always say thank you. People tell me where I'm
Speaker 2: farm as beautiful as if like I created it. I'm like,
Speaker 2: thank you so much.
Speaker 1: I get that. And and this is the embarrassing part.
Speaker 1: I used to think I was really cool when I
Speaker 1: was fifteen and walk around telling young girls that I
Speaker 1: saw that that they were really beautiful in Russian, and
Speaker 1: I thought they'd find me cute. But then I realized
Speaker 1: that the language I was using was more telling them
Speaker 1: that they look like a beautiful building. Like It's more
Speaker 1: like it's the language. So you can translate this for
Speaker 1: me and say, if I'm saying it, I still remember it.
Speaker 1: It's that strong, it's toy orchin crassy boy? Am I
Speaker 1: saying that? What am I actually saying?
Speaker 2: No, you're saying it, but you're saying it to a boy.
Speaker 1: Right, Oh, Wow, there we go. Even better, there we go.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: You're saying it to a boy.
Speaker 1: You actually say that, Okay, and you said boy boy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like you're either saying it to a boy,
Speaker 2: you're saying it to an object.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. All right. Anyway, there's my embarrassing story from you.
Speaker 2: Still in Russia.
Speaker 1: No, I can't. I can't. I wish I could. I
Speaker 1: didn't have. Again, it comes down to any skill in
Speaker 1: the world. I didn't have Russian, like I didn't have
Speaker 1: any friends that spoke the language. I didn't you know.
Speaker 1: But anyway, I digress. Your question was not telling me
Speaker 1: embarassing stories.
Speaker 2: About big secret. I can't write or read in Russian,
Speaker 2: but people always forget that, so they'll write to me
Speaker 2: listeners and things like that. I'll write to me in
Speaker 2: Russian and then I asked my mom what it means,
Speaker 2: and then I respond to them in Russian, and my
Speaker 2: mom actually has been writing it for me because some
Speaker 2: people don't actually know that I can't read. Itsh it's embarrassing.
Speaker 1: I get that, I get Yeah.
Speaker 2: Sorry, your question was what advice that I wish.
Speaker 1: I practiced sooner?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think there's something really interesting about speed and pace
Speaker 1: in life and especially career. As you asked a question
Speaker 1: about career. When you're starting out, you have to make
Speaker 1: a lot of quick decisions and you have to move
Speaker 1: quite fast in order to get something off the ground.
Speaker 1: But that comes with a lot of mistakes and baggage,
Speaker 1: and sometimes you set yourself up for issues in the future.
Speaker 1: And I found that I'm happy I started fast, but
Speaker 1: I think as things grew fast as well, I wish
Speaker 1: I slowed down earlier to really take the time to
Speaker 1: be really mindful about certain career choices and about even
Speaker 1: the people you invite into your life through work and careers.
Speaker 1: And so I think sometimes when you're moving fast, you
Speaker 1: like you just work with everyone, you work with anyone.
Speaker 1: You just want to get on with it. You want
Speaker 1: to get going. People would always say your team is
Speaker 1: the most important thing. The people around you the most
Speaker 1: important thing. And today I am so grateful for the
Speaker 1: amazing team I have around me, and He's in the room,
Speaker 1: and a bunch of incredible people that I have in
Speaker 1: my team who I'm so proud of. But I think
Speaker 1: that the idea of being selective and thoughtful wasn't always
Speaker 1: there for me because you're just trying to move and
Speaker 1: get stuff done, and I think there's a time and
Speaker 1: place for that. I'm not saying you shouldn't be that way,
Speaker 1: because in the beginning you just got to go with it.
Speaker 1: But I wish I started thinking about that earlier. And
Speaker 1: I'm glad I figured it out now, but I wish
Speaker 1: I could I could have thought about that even earlier.
Speaker 2: I like that. I think that is really good advice
Speaker 2: we do forget to slow down. And I mean I
Speaker 2: think even when I'm asking you a question and you
Speaker 2: take a second to think it through, the atmosphere in
Speaker 2: the room changes, suddenly I slow down and then I
Speaker 2: wait for you to speak. So I just it is
Speaker 2: interesting how slowing down in general is really good.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think we think slowing down means achieving less, Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I don't think that's true. I think slowing down
Speaker 1: can actually make you more impactful. If you look at
Speaker 1: some of the best I'm a big fan of rap
Speaker 1: and hip hop music, or I was growing up at
Speaker 1: least like Kendrick Lamar takes like two to three years
Speaker 1: to create an album like He's slowed down, right, But
Speaker 1: every time it comes out, everyone's really excited and they're pumped,
Speaker 1: and the album's always dope and everyone's like, Wow, that's
Speaker 1: art or that's a masterpiece. And so not everyone's going
Speaker 1: to be okay with waiting three years for an album. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but if that's what you're trying to create, then that's
Speaker 1: what it's going to take.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I like that, and I think it's really important
Speaker 2: for anyone out there, is the slowing down. And then
Speaker 2: I think also there's just that memory of the fact
Speaker 2: that you kind of brush with it in the beginning
Speaker 2: about how in a way, if someone's giving you advice
Speaker 2: and some what you want to hear, it's you may
Speaker 2: just be in the wrong room. I think a lot
Speaker 2: of people stop too fast, you know, they're just instead
Speaker 2: of slowing down, just being like, okay, and I've done
Speaker 2: I've done stand up a while back of one of
Speaker 2: my shows, and I kind of explained that, you know,
Speaker 2: if today no one laughed at my jokes, I'm not
Speaker 2: going to just give up. It just means I was
Speaker 2: in the wrong room and I'm just going to keep
Speaker 2: going to the until I find the right people in
Speaker 2: the right room. So but I like that because I
Speaker 2: have to do with all the doors they close on
Speaker 2: you and open and you're slowing down and find me
Speaker 2: correct teams. So very monk, I'm very bad at slowing down.
Speaker 1: So mine, so am I. I think it's it's the
Speaker 1: pace of the world we live in, right, I think
Speaker 1: even you look at let's look at the creator world
Speaker 1: like you look at someone like mister Beast who shifted
Speaker 1: to being like, I'm only going to create a video
Speaker 1: every month. Most YouTubers up until now thought they had
Speaker 1: to create a YouTube video every day. Right, And here's
Speaker 1: you know, the biggest guy on YouTube of all time going,
Speaker 1: I'm going to create one video a month and it's
Speaker 1: going to be the best video ever. But I'm going
Speaker 1: to make one video a month, or maybe two videos
Speaker 1: a month. But it was different because we grew up,
Speaker 1: Like up until the last couple of years, YouTubers were
Speaker 1: making videos every day.
Speaker 2: Well, it's always someone that starts it. Logan started Itgan, he.
Speaker 1: Did a great job with it. Two when he did that.
Speaker 2: And then he was over it. But then because he
Speaker 2: starts something, then everyone else thinks they have to catch up.
Speaker 2: That's a comparison part exactly. I just have to keep up.
Speaker 2: I have to keep up with people are going to
Speaker 2: forget about me versus I'm here to create art and
Speaker 2: you need to slow down.
Speaker 1: And it may work for that person. Like there are
Speaker 1: certain people who can make incredible things every day. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying there aren't people. I mean there's TV shows,
Speaker 1: there's radio shows that make something amazing every day. I
Speaker 1: think it's about figuring out what you want to make
Speaker 1: and not comparing it. So if you know what you
Speaker 1: want to make, you're not trying to keep up to
Speaker 1: someone else's pace. Yeah, and I think we're trying to
Speaker 1: keep up with someone else's speed rather than setting our
Speaker 1: own pace.
Speaker 2: What's the biggest lie you've ever told yourself?
Speaker 1: Ooh? Or this could go one of two ways. One
Speaker 1: is that I'm not good enough and the other one
Speaker 1: is I am good enough. And I'll explain. So when
Speaker 1: you tell yourself the lie I'm not good enough, a
Speaker 1: lot of us get into that self sabotage critical judgmental behavior.
Speaker 1: We just talked about comparison, complaining and criticizing. Often we complain, compare,
Speaker 1: and criticize more about ourselves than we do anyone else,
Speaker 1: So we look in the mirror. I hate the way
Speaker 1: I look we have a meeting with someone, Oh, they're
Speaker 1: much smarter than I am. We are applying for a
Speaker 1: job or looking for an opportunity, and we think I'm
Speaker 1: not good enough, and we lie to ourselves because we'd
Speaker 1: rather than not put ourselves in the risky position of
Speaker 1: trying and accept failure before someone else rejects us. We
Speaker 1: often feel it's better to reject ourselves than for someone
Speaker 1: to reject us, and then that replays in our minds
Speaker 1: and we keep saying I'm not good enough, and it's
Speaker 1: a lie because you don't know. And when you try something,
Speaker 1: when you give it a go, when you take an opportunity,
Speaker 1: you often realize you're better at things than you imagined.
Speaker 1: You're better at things than you ever thought you could
Speaker 1: be because you tried. And I've had personal experience of that,
Speaker 1: where you know, I was a really shy kid growing up,
Speaker 1: but my parents forced me to go to public speaking
Speaker 1: school when I was eleven years old. And they forced
Speaker 1: me to go because they were scared that I wouldn't
Speaker 1: be confident as a speaker. And they were right because
Speaker 1: before then I used to get When I was seven
Speaker 1: years old, I remember going on stage and the audience
Speaker 1: thought I was not great as a performer as a speaker.
Speaker 2: So you were seven, Yeah, I mean you think you
Speaker 2: would do better.
Speaker 1: Well, let me tell you. Let me tell you what happened.
Speaker 1: Let me tell you the story about what happened. I
Speaker 1: was asked to speak at a school assembly and I
Speaker 1: was asked to speak and sing from my culture, so
Speaker 1: from the Indian culture, and I was dressed in traditional
Speaker 1: Indian clothes. Now growing up, I was overweight and I
Speaker 1: was wearing these clothes and I didn't look so great
Speaker 1: in them, especially in front of the kids at my school.
Speaker 1: So I walked out and all the kids in the
Speaker 1: school started laughing. I then started singing. I do not
Speaker 1: have a good singing voice. I started singing this prayer
Speaker 1: in my language and from where my parents are from,
Speaker 1: and everyone started laughing more Jesus. And then I started
Speaker 1: crying because I felt so embarrassed on stage. And then
Speaker 1: I forgot the words and I looked down and my
Speaker 1: tears had smudged the words, so I completely lost track,
Speaker 1: and then everyone's completely lost it. And then my teacher
Speaker 1: has to come on stage, put an arm around me
Speaker 1: and walk me off, which is even more embarrassing. As
Speaker 1: a seven year old, and so that was my first
Speaker 1: experience of public speaking, and so my parents really want
Speaker 1: me to go to public speaking school. But the point
Speaker 1: is I was nervous to go. But if I never went,
Speaker 1: I'd never be able to do what I do today.
Speaker 1: So you're not going to know until you go, right,
Speaker 1: That's one side. The other lie of why I am
Speaker 1: good enough as a lie I've told myself is I've
Speaker 1: applied for jobs that I don't have the qualifytions for
Speaker 1: I've had and not I've never lied about who I am,
Speaker 1: but I've applied for things that I'm not good enough for,
Speaker 1: or I've reached out to try and make things possible
Speaker 1: because you have to, right, You're not just going to
Speaker 1: sit there and be like, I'm going to wait till
Speaker 1: I have it all together. And so I think it's
Speaker 1: important for people to recognize both of those ways, where
Speaker 1: sometimes you don't have to pretend you're good enough. You
Speaker 1: have to be honest and say, hey, I'm not good enough,
Speaker 1: but I love this opportunity. And I send messages like
Speaker 1: that all the time. I always send people a message saying, hey,
Speaker 1: I know you could do something way bigger than this,
Speaker 1: but this is what my idea is, and I'm okay
Speaker 1: with that.
Speaker 2: That actually reminds me when I was at university and
Speaker 2: we had some exam that I didn't study for and
Speaker 2: everyone else was studying right before the test and they're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you're going to study, and I go no, because you
Speaker 2: know why, I have God. I don't know why I
Speaker 2: said that. In that moment, I said, I'll just say
Speaker 2: a little prayer and I'm going to score it. I'm
Speaker 2: going to get an A. I was overly confident and
Speaker 2: then I did my little prayer. Hey God, if you're listening,
Speaker 2: it's your favorite you like, please give me an a.
Speaker 2: And everyone else studied. I took the test. Guess what happened.
Speaker 2: I failed. So I was like, okay, so that was
Speaker 2: a little too confidence.
Speaker 1: So that's yeah, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's a wonderful I mean, obviously, I'm not
Speaker 2: saying it's great that you got bullied when you were seven,
Speaker 2: but what a wonderful experience that you were able to
Speaker 2: take something like that and now your whole career is
Speaker 2: public speaking.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I always love hearing stories like that that somebody decided
Speaker 2: instead of caring about what everyone else thinks, you're like, Okay,
Speaker 2: you know what, watch me, and then you're like the
Speaker 2: top motivational.
Speaker 1: Speare I'm not yeah, not even you know, like not
Speaker 1: even to I genuinely mean this again, like I never
Speaker 1: do things with the intention of revenge or showing someone
Speaker 1: what I can do, because that means I'm still giving
Speaker 1: them the power and saying that how they feel about
Speaker 1: me is still more important than how I feel about myself.
Speaker 2: I like that. Can you kind of elaborate before we
Speaker 2: dive into your book right now? Can you you kind
Speaker 2: of elaborate really quick about why it's so important to
Speaker 2: forgive people just in your heart, not in general where
Speaker 2: you have to be around them again, but in your
Speaker 2: heart because it eats you up.
Speaker 1: So Yeah, when you carry around unforgiveness in your heart,
Speaker 1: it's so heavy that it blocks energy from the things
Speaker 1: you really care about and want to do. Whereas when
Speaker 1: you choose to forgive, you're almost removing this massive boulder
Speaker 1: that's weighing on your heart, which then frees you up
Speaker 1: to love others and receive more love. And so if
Speaker 1: your hand is holding tightly onto something, there's no space
Speaker 1: to hold on to anything else. And if we're tightly
Speaker 1: holding on too revenge and bitterness and negativity towards someone,
Speaker 1: then there's no open palm for receiving love and connection
Speaker 1: and compassion from someone else. And so, to me, forgiveness
Speaker 1: is not about forgetting and letting go of what the
Speaker 1: other person did or not setting boundaries. Forgiveness is saying
Speaker 1: I want to make space for more love, not less love.
Speaker 2: I like that. But do you think that some people
Speaker 2: they may not realize this, because I think I read
Speaker 2: this research a long time ago. Some speakers said this
Speaker 2: about how they think they don't want to be better,
Speaker 2: They think they don't want to be resempful of feel hate,
Speaker 2: but that's all they know. And sometimes it's scary too.
Speaker 2: If every day I wake up and I'm miserable, I'm
Speaker 2: happy with my life or my purpose now just to
Speaker 2: hate someone else, it's scary then to wake up the
Speaker 2: following day and be like, you know what, today I
Speaker 2: choose love, because then they're like, what am I going
Speaker 2: to do with my life now? If I have so
Speaker 2: much happiness to give instead of hating someone all day?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I forget what book it is and I can't
Speaker 1: remember it. But there's a concept that talks about how
Speaker 1: having a common enemy is often a way to unite people. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and even with ourselves. And so that's what you're referring to.
Speaker 1: It's why so many yeah, religions, philosophies, brands have a
Speaker 1: common evil so that we can get excited about defeating
Speaker 1: someone and beating someone. And I agree. It's not like
Speaker 1: waking up exactly. It's not waking up and saying I
Speaker 1: choose love and that doesn't exist anymore. It's just saying
Speaker 1: I'm not living to prove or disprove anyone else because
Speaker 1: the only approval that matters is my own. So you're
Speaker 1: just saying I don't want to live to approve or
Speaker 1: disprove anyone else. I only want to live for my
Speaker 1: own approval. It's that decision as opposed to choosing love.
Speaker 2: Do you kind of have some example, an idea of
Speaker 2: how you or a lesson in your time as a
Speaker 2: monk or after it where something kind of shaped your
Speaker 2: perspective on love and relationships.
Speaker 1: I'd say the biggest one was this idea that monks
Speaker 1: didn't wait to receive love. They chose to express love
Speaker 1: or kindness or compassion or joy in every meeting So
Speaker 1: what I found is that monks lived a life of
Speaker 1: love not because people loved them, but because they loved others.
Speaker 1: And I think we think about love as being something
Speaker 1: you get and receive and people give to you, as
Speaker 1: opposed to I can feel love just by being nice
Speaker 1: and kind to someone else, and when I choose to
Speaker 1: do that, I am feeling love. And I think also
Speaker 1: the idea that in the monastery, I felt a lot
Speaker 1: of love from my teachers, I felt a lot of
Speaker 1: love from my peers. I felt a lot of love
Speaker 1: from the people we served. And I think modern society
Speaker 1: has created romantic love and put romantic love on a pedestal.
Speaker 1: So we think that if I have romantic love, then
Speaker 1: my life is perfect, and if I don't have romantic love,
Speaker 1: then I'm not worthy. And as a monk, you don't
Speaker 1: have romantic love. But I felt so much love, which
Speaker 1: made me realize that we shouldn't devalue other forms of love.
Speaker 1: Love for your parents, love for your children, love for
Speaker 1: your friends, love for your family. How can we say
Speaker 1: that there's a hierarchy of love. But I think subconsciously
Speaker 1: we do. I think somewhere in our hearts we believe
Speaker 1: that the epitome of love is between two people who
Speaker 1: romantically love each other. Right, But I would disagree with that.
Speaker 1: I'd say that there are lots of different types of
Speaker 1: love and none of them should be compared to the other.
Speaker 2: I like that because in your book Eight Rules of Love,
Speaker 2: there's two of the rules. One of them do you
Speaker 2: discuss service, what you can do for others? Another one
Speaker 2: you discuss unconditional love, which we're going to dive into,
Speaker 2: because for me, it's hard to see how unconditional love
Speaker 2: is possible. I think people want that, But me personally,
Speaker 2: from my own experience when I've come to unconditional love
Speaker 2: is that love comes. Growing up, it felt like love
Speaker 2: comes with terms and conditions, and if I don't fulfill
Speaker 2: a certain term or people get everything they need for me,
Speaker 2: they leave. So is do you think unconditional love is
Speaker 2: actually realistic? I think, of course you do. Obviously.
Speaker 1: I think unconditional love is real I just don't know
Speaker 1: if it's realistic for two people in a romantic relationship
Speaker 1: as quickly as people want it to.
Speaker 2: Be, Okay, it's quickly. Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 1: So I think that unconditional love is a tall order
Speaker 1: and reciprocal love is more realistic. What you just described
Speaker 1: is transactional love, and below that is no love. So
Speaker 1: if you look at love as layers, when you meet
Speaker 1: someone new, you don't love them and they don't love you.
Speaker 2: You don't know that, I'm kidding.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you don't. What you just talked about is
Speaker 1: what I would call transactional love, where it's like you
Speaker 1: give me what I want, I give you what you want,
Speaker 1: and then we're done with each other, right, And that's
Speaker 1: a lot of people experience that today. Sadly, a lot
Speaker 1: of people that I've been speaking to recently are experiencing
Speaker 1: that sense of immature people who just want to use
Speaker 1: someone's take and they're in their own pain, but that
Speaker 1: doesn't give them an excuse to do that. Higher than
Speaker 1: that is reciprocal love. That means I do nice things
Speaker 1: for you, you do nice things for me, and we
Speaker 1: don't count, but we love each other. And then the
Speaker 1: highest is unconditional love, where I'm ready to do anything
Speaker 1: for you and I don't even care whether you don't
Speaker 1: do anything for me. And that's yeah, exactly in parent love, right,
Speaker 1: is that what you said? Yeah, Like, that's like how
Speaker 1: parents love their kids, for sure, And that's the kind
Speaker 1: of love that exists realistically with unconditional love. But romantic
Speaker 1: love has to go through these levels because you can't
Speaker 1: just skip to unconditional love. We think if you put
Speaker 1: the ring on the finger, or you got married, or
Speaker 1: you moved in you automatically move into unconditional love. And
Speaker 1: that's just not true. And so I would want people
Speaker 1: to just pace themselves better. Don't fall in love too fast,
Speaker 1: because that's why it's called falling in love, because you're
Speaker 1: moving so fast that you can't even walk right, You're
Speaker 1: just falling over yourself. And I think if we move slower,
Speaker 1: maybe we could walk in love a bit longer and
Speaker 1: then maybe learn to run.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you can grow in.
Speaker 1: Love exactly, that's the goal. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Okay, so that conditional love was your number four rule,
Speaker 2: But if you kind of go backwards really quick, because
Speaker 2: many of us grow feeling unloved or we feel like
Speaker 2: we don't actually understand what love is. Many of us
Speaker 2: still don't know definition of love because we think it's
Speaker 2: toxic or based on whatever our parents were. So in
Speaker 2: your first rule, it's in kind of the whole theme
Speaker 2: of around your book. It's idea that love is not
Speaker 2: just an emotion but a skill. And I like that
Speaker 2: because a skill gives me hope that I can. You know,
Speaker 2: the more you do a skill, the more you get
Speaker 2: to learn how to be better. So how can we
Speaker 2: kind of shift our mindset to see love in that way?
Speaker 2: And then what are some practical exercises we can do
Speaker 2: to develop our ability to love as a skill?
Speaker 1: I love that that shows me how thoughtfully you've read
Speaker 1: the book, because that's such a nuanced point, Like that's
Speaker 1: such a subtle point, but it's so important because so
Speaker 1: I love what you said, and you already took the
Speaker 1: words out of my mouth. That love is a skill
Speaker 1: and a practice, which means you can learn to love,
Speaker 1: which means other people can learn to love, and which
Speaker 1: means you can build it as a foundation. If love
Speaker 1: is just a feeling or an emotion, then you're always
Speaker 1: trying to chase it and find it and you don't
Speaker 1: know what it looks like. So here's a habit. Here's
Speaker 1: a couple of habits. Every day, find something you love
Speaker 1: about your body, and it could be Often when people
Speaker 1: think of that, they think I have to think of
Speaker 1: something aesthetic, and I'm like go beyond, think about your organs,
Speaker 1: like your heart is just working away every day with
Speaker 1: no love. When was the last time you showed love
Speaker 1: to your beat heart? And you think about how much
Speaker 1: love you think you give to others and they don't
Speaker 1: give you it in return. That's your heart. Your heart
Speaker 1: is giving love to you every single day by keeping
Speaker 1: you alive. Yet we rarely think of our heart. Think
Speaker 1: about how easy it is to forget about the thing
Speaker 1: that keeps you beating, breathing and alive right like, we
Speaker 1: just forget about it. And that translates into our relationships
Speaker 1: as well. And so the first thing is, every day
Speaker 1: or every week, find one thing you love about your body,
Speaker 1: one thing you like love about your mind, and one
Speaker 1: thing you love about your heart. If you can start
Speaker 1: that practice, you are learning to build self love. That's
Speaker 1: a habit for self love. I'm not telling you to
Speaker 1: say it out loud. I'm not telling you to say
Speaker 1: in the mirror. I'm just saying, can you acknowledge that
Speaker 1: there's so much good here and there's so much worthy
Speaker 1: of love? Now? A habit to love someone else a
Speaker 1: great way is saying I'm going to learn when this
Speaker 1: person needs attention and when they need space. I'm going
Speaker 1: to do a little experiment to say, do I actually
Speaker 1: know this person well enough to know whether they need space?
Speaker 1: Attention awareness? That's love, and that's a habit and a
Speaker 1: skill I can tell. And me and my wife do
Speaker 1: this with each other all the time, Like I'm always
Speaker 1: trying to learn does my wife need me to be
Speaker 1: a fixer or does she need me to be a listener?
Speaker 1: That's love. That's a skill. That's why love is a skill.
Speaker 1: I can learn to know that. And if I'm learning,
Speaker 1: I can ask her, do you want me to be
Speaker 1: a listener right now? Do you want me to be
Speaker 1: a fixer? She just asking that question. It's not complicated,
Speaker 1: and she could say, yeah, I just want you to
Speaker 1: be a listener tonight, or and I need you to
Speaker 1: fix this for me right now. And yesterday she came
Speaker 1: up to him, She's like, I really need to talk
Speaker 1: to about something. I want to figure this out. And
Speaker 1: I was like, great, so we're in fixing mode right
Speaker 1: And then that helps her love you back. And the
Speaker 1: third thing is tell people how you want to be loved.
Speaker 1: I think so often we're scared because we think if
Speaker 1: we tell someone how to love us. It's a weakness.
Speaker 1: But actually, if you tell someone one this is how
Speaker 1: I feel loved, now they get to choose whether they
Speaker 1: want to love you in that way or not. Rather
Speaker 1: than expecting them to read your mind and figure out
Speaker 1: who you are, tell them share with them.
Speaker 2: Right, because you end up setting them up for failure. Oh,
Speaker 2: they don't care and so on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and some people just most people have just not
Speaker 1: been trained to like notice these things. Like people just
Speaker 1: not can't read between the lines.
Speaker 2: Well, normally we assume people love the way we love. Yes,
Speaker 2: we don't realize there's so many different love languages. I mean,
Speaker 2: I grew up half of my life thinking my dad
Speaker 2: didn't love me. And my dad every day did his
Speaker 2: best to show me that he loved me by giving
Speaker 2: me something his father didn't give him, which was a
Speaker 2: roof over my head, and supporting me financially. But I
Speaker 2: never got hugged by him when I never heard the
Speaker 2: words that he loved me. So I'm like, what is
Speaker 2: my dad hate me? When I got older, I realized
Speaker 2: that's all he knew, Like he doesn't know how to
Speaker 2: show love that he did his best. Yeah, and we
Speaker 2: connected again and I feel so always thankful that I
Speaker 2: was able to learn all these different love languages and
Speaker 2: got to learn and give my father and I another chance.
Speaker 2: And I think that I think so many people in
Speaker 2: this life don't give other people a chance and they
Speaker 2: just assume, Oh, that person doesn't care about me.
Speaker 1: That's so beautiful. That's an amazing reflection. I really appreciate. No,
Speaker 1: I genuinely do. That's that's so great, because, yeah, we
Speaker 1: want to be loved the way we give love, and
Speaker 1: we don't realize there are so many beautiful ways to
Speaker 1: show love to someone and receive love. And actually, if
Speaker 1: you tell someone I only want to be loved this way,
Speaker 1: you miss out on the way they can love you too.
Speaker 2: Oh I like that. I love that a lot. Okay,
Speaker 2: your third rule in your book, you wrote that it's
Speaker 2: about love is that antidote to fear. And we've earlier
Speaker 2: discussed fear. Can you kind of discuss how fear can
Speaker 2: really hold us back from experiencing a connection.
Speaker 1: Fear is just an unformed boundary. So fear is a
Speaker 1: boundary in the making, but it isn't yet a boundary,
Speaker 1: and that's why it's still a fear. And so what
Speaker 1: we have to do is we have to take our
Speaker 1: fears and we have to turn them into principles, agreements,
Speaker 1: and boundaries. So if I have a fear that someone
Speaker 1: may leave me, instead of keeping it that way, I'm
Speaker 1: going to set a boundary saying I'm not going to
Speaker 1: get too close too quick without the person showing me
Speaker 1: they're ready for commitment. Right, I'm not just going to
Speaker 1: make up in my head and pretend what I think
Speaker 1: this relationship should be. So I'm going to change my
Speaker 1: fear into a principle I can live right, as opposed
Speaker 1: to just saying I'm just going to constantly be scared
Speaker 1: of this. For example, if I'm scared that someone doesn't
Speaker 1: love me, I'm going to set an agreement with my
Speaker 1: partner to say every week we do this, this, and
Speaker 1: this because it makes us feel close together, and does
Speaker 1: that person want to commit to that. If they do, great,
Speaker 1: we now have an agreement, which means we don't have
Speaker 1: to hold on to that fear. So we need to
Speaker 1: change our fears into boundaries, agreements, and commitments to each
Speaker 1: other so that both people are not walking around with insecurities.
Speaker 2: Right, Because people get scared to even communicate in that way,
Speaker 2: but at least then you would know if your partner
Speaker 2: is willing to go the extra mile with you or not.
Speaker 2: It's just living in fear.
Speaker 1: Exactly Like I remember when I first met my wife,
Speaker 1: I was scared. I had a fear that the amount
Speaker 1: I care about my purpose could scare someone away. So
Speaker 1: that was my fear. My personal fear was I am
Speaker 1: so committed to the life I want to create and
Speaker 1: build that it may scare someone away. So I said
Speaker 1: that to my wife when we were dating. I said
Speaker 1: to you, I said, my purpose is going to come
Speaker 1: first to me forever because I love it. It's my
Speaker 1: life and soul to help people. Is that okay with you?
Speaker 1: Is that something you're comfortable with? And then we looked
Speaker 1: at what that looks like on a practical level, And
Speaker 1: luckily I have a wife who understands that about me,
Speaker 1: and she said the same thing to me. She said,
Speaker 1: my number one priority is my family. And we had
Speaker 1: that open and honest conversation and because of that, there
Speaker 1: hasn't been this weird feeling when I jump on a
Speaker 1: plane to do something that's my purpose. She's not going
Speaker 1: to me, well why are you going? Where are you going?
Speaker 1: And if she's saying I need to be back with
Speaker 1: my family, I'm not there, going, well, you've been there
Speaker 1: a lot this yet, Like because there's a respect and
Speaker 1: there's an understanding of that's what fuels you. So you
Speaker 1: can turn your fear into a conversation, a principle and
Speaker 1: a boundary and a commitment which frees you. Now, she
Speaker 1: could have said no, Jay, I don't want you to
Speaker 1: live that way, and then we would have figured that
Speaker 1: path out and seen where that would have gone. But
Speaker 1: I think a lot of us are scared, and then
Speaker 1: what we don't realize is we end up living out
Speaker 1: our fears in the future. Right, Yeah, it doesn't go away.
Speaker 2: Like literally, if you say I'm just going to take
Speaker 2: a step back and just in case if they want
Speaker 2: to leave me, then it won't be all in. And
Speaker 2: then because you're not all in, they're thinking, oh, the
Speaker 2: person's notn't.
Speaker 1: Interested exactly, rather than you sharing it, and then.
Speaker 2: All your fears actually come true. I think a lot
Speaker 2: of the time that's what happens.
Speaker 1: Yes, I did it.
Speaker 2: Someone that kept getting scared that someone was going to
Speaker 2: happen during our dating and then we will break up
Speaker 2: because of it. In the end end up breaking up
Speaker 2: because of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. That's it. Yeah, your fear is becoming
Speaker 1: your future for sure.
Speaker 2: I love how well you're and your wife communicate, Like
Speaker 2: I am honestly astonished by it. I mean everything that
Speaker 2: you're saying. There's so many things you're saying. In my brain.
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, I want to like save it,
Speaker 2: press saved so I can remember. It's such good advice
Speaker 2: for people out there who may not have the type
Speaker 2: of relationship theyp with your wife or with other partners,
Speaker 2: or in general, who are currently struggling with loneliness, and
Speaker 2: this book really helps you know to understand all the
Speaker 2: different types of love. What is your message to those
Speaker 2: that may be struggling with loneliness or heartbreak or lack
Speaker 2: of love in their lives.
Speaker 1: Being alone is a great time to get to know
Speaker 1: yourself because when you get with someone else, you often
Speaker 1: start adopting their behaviors, their likes, their patterns. Nothing wrong
Speaker 1: with that, but if you don't know who you are
Speaker 1: in the first place, that's why so many people say
Speaker 1: I lost myself in the relationship right or I forgot
Speaker 1: who I was. But it's like you weren't really you
Speaker 1: are in the beginning, And so being alone after a
Speaker 1: heartbreak is such a great time to get awareness of
Speaker 1: who you are. And I think it's so important to go, well,
Speaker 1: what do I like and what do I not like?
Speaker 1: What kind of life do I want to create, and
Speaker 1: what kind of life do I want to build? What's
Speaker 1: important to me, what's a priority to me, and what
Speaker 1: isn't And when you start taking that interest in yourself,
Speaker 1: most often we don't find ourselves interesting. That's why we
Speaker 1: want someone else in our life to make life interesting.
Speaker 1: But if you learn to become interested in yourself, I
Speaker 1: promise your life will become more interesting and you'll like
Speaker 1: to take joy in your own company. And by the way,
Speaker 1: that applies even if you're in a relationship. Even if
Speaker 1: you're in a relationship, spending time alone is so healthy
Speaker 1: for a sense of self esteem, for a sense of
Speaker 1: self awareness. And so this isn't just a skill that
Speaker 1: you have to practice when you're alone. It's a skill
Speaker 1: you have to practice when you're with someone. If you're
Speaker 1: constantly around someone, you are going to dissolve your identity
Speaker 1: into who they are and who you become in the
Speaker 1: relationship and that's not bad per se, but it's not
Speaker 1: healthy for your own long term. That's why people have
Speaker 1: been married for three decades and one person says, I
Speaker 1: haven't achieved my goals. I don't know who I am.
Speaker 1: It's not because they didn't have a good relationship with
Speaker 1: that person. It's because you didn't have a good relationship
Speaker 1: with yourself. Often when people end up in breakups of divorce,
Speaker 1: it's not because they didn't have a great relationship. It's
Speaker 1: because they didn't have a good relationship with themselves and
Speaker 1: they sacrificed or put aside parts of themselves thinking that
Speaker 1: that made the relationship better, only years later to find
Speaker 1: I wish I didn't do that. So I think those
Speaker 1: times are times to really get to know yourself. And
Speaker 1: the way you get to know yourself is doing things
Speaker 1: by yourself, taking yourself out on dates, going out to
Speaker 1: dinner on your own, going out and finding the friends
Speaker 1: that you want to connect with, going and developing the
Speaker 1: habits and the disciplines and the routines that are fruitful
Speaker 1: for you. If you do that, you start to attract
Speaker 1: the right community around you as well.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people are afraid to take
Speaker 2: a look in the mirror, spend time with themselves because
Speaker 2: zep down, they may not like who they are. And
Speaker 2: I think that's a lot of people's biggest fear that
Speaker 2: what if I get to know myself and I don't
Speaker 2: like that person?
Speaker 1: The best thing is you can change it and you're
Speaker 1: not that person, like you're not You're not the person
Speaker 1: you feel like right now. You're something so much more
Speaker 1: powerful beyond it, beneath it, and you can become anything
Speaker 1: you want to be, like you truly can. And I
Speaker 1: think we if you do get to know yourself and
Speaker 1: you don't like yourself, I promise you another person will
Speaker 1: not solve that or period right, it just won't.
Speaker 2: I like that. From your eight rules, what would you
Speaker 2: say has been over the course of your life the
Speaker 2: hardest rule for you to follow?
Speaker 1: I think the hardest one is always the rule that
Speaker 1: win or lose together. So, because your ego is a daily, weekly, monthly,
Speaker 1: yearly battle, and when your partner is being stubborn and
Speaker 1: you don't want to give it in and you want
Speaker 1: to point them out, or you want to trip them up,
Speaker 1: or you want to call them out, we do that
Speaker 1: and oftentimes I think that's what ruins relationships is our
Speaker 1: partner's trying and we want to act all hard to get,
Speaker 1: and then we try and then they're acting all hard
Speaker 1: to get or we're trying to be nice, but they're
Speaker 1: not being sincerely nice, so we want to call that out.
Speaker 1: Like I think we just call out our partners a lot,
Speaker 1: in a way that we don't do to anyone else, right,
Speaker 1: Like we pick their faults, more, we pick out their insecurities,
Speaker 1: more we dig it, the more we know them better,
Speaker 1: so we know which buttons to push to get a reaction.
Speaker 1: And I think that's sort.
Speaker 2: Of just saying hey, when you're not around, it hurts
Speaker 2: my feelings totally.
Speaker 1: We we don't want to. We want to say in
Speaker 1: a passive aggressive way.
Speaker 2: Oh, you're with your friends tonight, Okay, I guess that's
Speaker 2: better for you than to hang out with your wife
Speaker 2: exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: We want to say that rather than just saying, hey,
Speaker 1: this week, shall we plan which nights we're going to
Speaker 1: spend together. It's the same thing, but and I think
Speaker 1: that's why win or lose together. It's like, it's really interesting,
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this. We spend so much time
Speaker 1: trying to win someone over and then we want them
Speaker 1: to lose arguments, and it doesn't make any sense, Like
Speaker 1: we spend all this time trying to win someone over,
Speaker 1: to impress them, for them to love us, and then
Speaker 1: we want them to lose. And I wish we could
Speaker 1: just give ourselves and them more grace in relationships, because
Speaker 1: if you win and they lose, you both lose. Right,
Speaker 1: If you lose and they win, you both lose. So
Speaker 1: you have two choices. You either win together or you
Speaker 1: lose together. But if you win and they lose, that's
Speaker 1: a loss. Because you sleep in the same bed, you
Speaker 1: live in the same house, you wake up with that person.
Speaker 1: You're sharing energy now, and whether you like it or not,
Speaker 1: if you're trying to put them down or pick them apart,
Speaker 1: that is going to affect you every day, and you're
Speaker 1: setting yourself up. I don't want to live in a
Speaker 1: house where we hate each other or don't like you
Speaker 1: to each other, or take shots at each other every day.
Speaker 1: I just don't want to live in that environment. Why
Speaker 1: would you put yourself through that. You might as well be.
Speaker 2: Alone, right, right, Because sometimes you can focus so much
Speaker 2: on winning an argument and then that's how you lose
Speaker 2: versus we're arguing, but how can we win together by
Speaker 2: coming to an agreement?
Speaker 1: Yes, we focus so much on winning an argument that
Speaker 1: we often lose the person because of it. And so
Speaker 1: often it's not about you losing the argument and them
Speaker 1: winning either. It's about saying, how do we win together
Speaker 1: because we're on the same team.
Speaker 2: But how can you do that without accidentally giving too
Speaker 2: much of yourself? Because you know how everything you're saying
Speaker 2: is so peaceful and so wonderful. But then sometimes we
Speaker 2: forget that it takes two people to take go. You
Speaker 2: need your partner to be as understanding as you are.
Speaker 2: So what if every day I'm the one that's like,
Speaker 2: it's okay, don't worry about my feelings as long as
Speaker 2: we can win together.
Speaker 1: That's the mistake. That's such great question, And that's the mistake.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying, you say my feelings don't matter, it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter, I'll give in. That's not what winning together
Speaker 1: looks like. Winning doesn't mean tolerance. Winning together doesn't mean
Speaker 1: like you're just tolerant of someone else's issues and things.
Speaker 1: It's creating agreements, commitments and boundaries together, us coming together
Speaker 1: and saying, okay, this is a weekly problem in this house.
Speaker 1: How are we going to solve it? It's not me
Speaker 1: saying you're the issue. You need to change this, you
Speaker 1: need to sort it out. It's saying this is something
Speaker 1: we both disagree on, right, how are we going to
Speaker 1: take care of it? I'll give a silly example. In
Speaker 1: my own house, the bed was never made right, The
Speaker 1: bed was never made My wife wakes up earlier than me,
Speaker 1: so in her head it was my job to make
Speaker 1: the bed. Now I wake up later, but I feel
Speaker 1: like I've got a million things to do, and so
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, well, she can take care of it later on. Now,
Speaker 1: if we never talk about it, this could be an
Speaker 1: issue that lasts for years. And all the studies show
Speaker 1: that most couples argue about the same things for long
Speaker 1: amounts of time. It's not that you have new fights,
Speaker 1: you have the same fights again and again. I'm taking
Speaker 1: a silly example just to help the situation. Now. The
Speaker 1: reason why I don't like doing the bed is because
Speaker 1: we have way too many Christians on that bed. I
Speaker 1: don't need bed pillows. I just need the pillow I
Speaker 1: sleep with and the douvet. She wants the decorative pillows
Speaker 1: on top, so we made an agreement and a commitment
Speaker 1: we would limit the decorative pillows and the last person
Speaker 1: to wake up would do the bed. Oh, and that
Speaker 1: agreement is solved that problem where five out of seven days,
Speaker 1: I'm the last person to get out of bed, and
Speaker 1: so I'll do it, and I'm happy to do it.
Speaker 1: But We've also limited the amount of pillows so that
Speaker 1: I'm not having to like do all this decorative stuff
Speaker 1: that I'm not a huge fan of in the morning
Speaker 1: because it may not be like the right act for me.
Speaker 1: And so I've taken a very silly example. But the
Speaker 1: point is that's what winning together looks like. Winning together
Speaker 1: doesn't look like her saying oh, Jay, it's fine if
Speaker 1: you just want to end exactly, or it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: me saying I'll do all this decorative stuff for you, honey, because.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna pretend, but then I'm going to resent them.
Speaker 1: Why would we do that, right, It's not a compromise.
Speaker 1: It's trying to create a commitment and an agreement together
Speaker 1: that we can both vibe with.
Speaker 2: It would have been funny if you'l like, so now
Speaker 2: every morning iowaka before.
Speaker 1: M Yeah, yeah, so you have to do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that. It's a compromise. Okay, that is
Speaker 2: really good. You heard so many powerful lessons and insights
Speaker 2: in your book. Can you kind of share another lesson
Speaker 2: or piece of advice so you believe that has the
Speaker 2: power to truly transform someone's life beyond everything else you
Speaker 2: already mentioned that I think can help anyone. Well. Wow.
Speaker 1: I think in love and relationships we often ask the
Speaker 1: wrong questions.
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 1: So we often ask questions like are they the right person?
Speaker 1: Are they right for me? Is there someone else? And
Speaker 1: I think those questions have unlimited answers, and they're not
Speaker 1: the right questions because I don't think it's about whether
Speaker 1: someone's right for you. It's whether you both want to
Speaker 1: make it right. Like, there is no pers perfect person,
Speaker 1: there is no perfect partner. There's only the person that
Speaker 1: wants to make it work with you and the person
Speaker 1: you want to make it work with. And if someone
Speaker 1: doesn't want to make it work with you, it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter how perfect you think they are, it's not going
Speaker 1: to work. And we keep asking that question, or we
Speaker 1: keep thinking when we break up with someone, but they
Speaker 1: were perfect, they were the one that was the person
Speaker 1: I wanted to be with And that's real because the
Speaker 1: research shows in science that you're literally when you break
Speaker 1: up with someone, you're detoxing from the relationship as if
Speaker 1: you're craving a drug. It's like detoxing from a drug.
Speaker 1: So you're craving that person, but you're craving the idea
Speaker 1: in your mind of what it looked like, not what
Speaker 1: it actually was, because guess what, that person doesn't actually
Speaker 1: want to be there. And so the biggest advice I
Speaker 1: can give is stop living life in your head and
Speaker 1: how it looks and how you want it to look,
Speaker 1: and start navigating the real world, because I guarantee you
Speaker 1: the real world has more beauty in its beauty, and
Speaker 1: it has more signs in its reality. But the version
Speaker 1: you're living in your mind and your head is going
Speaker 1: to constantly keep perplexing you because you have a projector
Speaker 1: of your ideal life up here and then you have
Speaker 1: the reality of your life down here, and they're never
Speaker 1: going to match. It's never going to match.
Speaker 2: I like that about asking the wrong questions or just
Speaker 2: a thought when you keep playing. So that person was perfect,
Speaker 2: If they were perfect for you, then they would want
Speaker 2: to be with you.
Speaker 1: That's exactly that perfect. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually that reminds me of a long time ago.
Speaker 2: My ex men were together for eight years and when
Speaker 2: we're going through our one million breakup and I was
Speaker 2: sad about it, and I was going through my love
Speaker 2: with drawls, which are like a drug heroin, and I
Speaker 2: kept remembering this one moment that we had the best
Speaker 2: time ever. And I was just giving my friend this
Speaker 2: advice because she's going through it right now, and I said,
Speaker 2: that day we had the best memory. We went to
Speaker 2: Malibur together, then we got massages together, and then we
Speaker 2: had dinner and we made love. It was the best
Speaker 2: stay ever. And then finally I said, let's really go back,
Speaker 2: and I remember I was really thinking more logically, and
Speaker 2: I went back to that day that was my best
Speaker 2: day of a relationship, and it tell me I got
Speaker 2: to see for what it was. When we're having lunch
Speaker 2: in Malibu, my boyfriend's on his phone and he was
Speaker 2: looking and I was like smiling, so happy to be
Speaker 2: there with him, and You're just like, okay, you're almost done,
Speaker 2: are ready? Then we go get massages. He looks at me,
Speaker 2: He's like, you know this was really expensive. Are you
Speaker 2: going to be thankful for this and it's like all
Speaker 2: these little moments, which is funny. You know, I'm I'm
Speaker 2: not in any way blaming him. I'm just mean we
Speaker 2: weren't to match. Yeah, but it's the way I wanted
Speaker 2: to remember that day was as if we were perfect,
Speaker 2: it was beautiful as my person, when in reality, he'd
Speaker 2: I don't think the guy even liked me. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: then dinner again on his phone. So it's not easy
Speaker 2: when you look at things realistically, but I think it
Speaker 2: is so helpful because I was so desperate to be
Speaker 2: loved that I didn't even notice that the person in
Speaker 2: front of me didn't love me.
Speaker 1: Oh, that is so powerful. That is exactly it. We're
Speaker 1: so I'm going to repeat what you just said. We're
Speaker 1: so desperate to be loved that we often don't even
Speaker 1: realize is that the person in front of us doesn't
Speaker 1: even love us, like you just said that, And that
Speaker 1: is so powerful, and it is so true that we're
Speaker 1: making up the story. And it's really interesting. The trick
Speaker 1: of the mind is when you're with someone, you pick
Speaker 1: at all the negatives, but when you break up with someone,
Speaker 1: all you do is remember the positives. Yeah, and our
Speaker 1: mind plays that trick on us. When you're with someone
Speaker 1: every day you're like, oh, they're annoying and they're the
Speaker 1: worst and they don't care about me, and then when
Speaker 1: they break up, you're like, no, no, no, because it
Speaker 1: turns into that craving And so we have to remind
Speaker 1: ourselves of reality. Always focus on the facts. If you
Speaker 1: want the truth, The truth is the facts of what
Speaker 1: was really happening. And if you look at the facts,
Speaker 1: chances are you don't want to be with that person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Or kind of what you said in the beginning
Speaker 2: with how when you're negative, our minds we like ourselves
Speaker 2: or mind place s tricks on us. So if I
Speaker 2: have a completely wonderful relationship with you and then I
Speaker 2: fall into a depression or and I start lying to
Speaker 2: myself thinking that I'm not worthy of love, I'm going
Speaker 2: to go back to our memories to remember something you
Speaker 2: look at me weird or and all that, and I'm
Speaker 2: going to think you don't love me. It's just it's
Speaker 2: really interesting. Okay, So from your book Eight Rules of Love,
Speaker 2: what would you say? I mean, there's so many great
Speaker 2: pieces of advice, but what would you say One of
Speaker 2: the best piece of advice that people can take from
Speaker 2: your book.
Speaker 1: I think I would say overall, I think we've touched
Speaker 1: on some really beautiful points in the book. And the
Speaker 1: biggest thing I'd say is the book's about every stage
Speaker 1: of love, how to find it, how to keep it,
Speaker 1: and how to let it go. And I think that
Speaker 1: I tried to write a book that was for everyone
Speaker 1: at every stage of a relationship, almost like a map.
Speaker 1: And if someone wants to talk about and think about
Speaker 1: love in a more systematic, in a more scientific, and
Speaker 1: in a more step by step way, then this book
Speaker 1: is great. If someone wants to talk about love in
Speaker 1: a more practical, real way, then this book is great
Speaker 1: for you because I'm not trying to talk about love
Speaker 1: with this ethereal concept or this fluffy woo woo thing.
Speaker 1: It's like, I'm just laying it out as it is.
Speaker 1: And if someone wants to help going through a breakup,
Speaker 1: if someone wants help because they're just about to move
Speaker 1: in with someone, if someone wants to help figure out
Speaker 1: being alone, this book covers the best research, the best wisdom,
Speaker 1: and the best ideas, not just from me, but from
Speaker 1: And this is what I keep reminding everyone when I'm
Speaker 1: putting a book together. I'm not just sharing things that
Speaker 1: I know that would be limited. I go out there
Speaker 1: and research and curate so I find science, I find wisdom,
Speaker 1: I find real life stories. I interview people, I look
Speaker 1: at research and studies like it's all curated to give
Speaker 1: you a really complete picture.
Speaker 2: And I think one thing from this whole interview that
Speaker 2: I really liked. When you're discussing you and your wife
Speaker 2: is that it seems that you never stop learning about her.
Speaker 2: And I think that's one thing that people to understand
Speaker 2: when it comes to love, that you're always as long
Speaker 2: as you continue to be curious about your partner how
Speaker 2: to grow, that's a successful partnership.
Speaker 1: Right, Love means to learn. Love means that I will.
Speaker 1: If you love something, it means you will never stop
Speaker 1: learning about it. When someone says I love football or basketball,
Speaker 1: what does that mean? It means they're always learning about it.
Speaker 1: What happened this week? R What did the player do?
Speaker 1: That player got injured, This happened that person scored? Like
Speaker 1: it's constant. Right, That's what love is. If you love
Speaker 1: your garden, you take care of it every day. If
Speaker 1: you love your home, you take care of every item
Speaker 1: every day. But with our partners. We say we love them,
Speaker 1: but we take care of them once a year, and
Speaker 1: that doesn't make any sense. That's not love, that's ownership.
Speaker 2: I like that analogy and I like that comparison also,
Speaker 2: then with yourself, because that's another thing. I love myself yesterday.
Speaker 2: How can I hate myself today?
Speaker 1: Exactly right.
Speaker 2: One of the biggest things I struggle with is focusing
Speaker 2: on my progress over perfection because I'm a perfectionist, which
Speaker 2: sets me up to failure obviously. So how can we
Speaker 2: shift our mindset and embrace this philosophy and what would
Speaker 2: you say some practical steps we can take towards our
Speaker 2: goals with just you know, not being a perfectionist.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I think we have to come at
Speaker 1: it from the point of view that perfection doesn't exist.
Speaker 1: And I think the fact that we even think perfection
Speaker 1: exists is partly the problem because it gives you something
Speaker 1: to work towards. But when you realize perfection doesn't exist.
Speaker 1: But there's a great book called flow and flow state
Speaker 1: is all about when you feel like you're in the zone.
Speaker 1: So musicians or rappers or swimmers or singers when they're
Speaker 1: like fully zoned in, like if you watched Elvis, or
Speaker 1: you watch Beyonce, or you watch your favorite athlete, you
Speaker 1: can tell they're in the zone that's called flow state.
Speaker 1: And they say flow state is when your challenge meets
Speaker 1: your skill. So when your skill and your challenge meet
Speaker 1: and are aligned, that's when you experience flow. But most
Speaker 1: of us experience one or the other. We experience our
Speaker 1: challenge above our skill. That's really depressing, it's disheartening, it
Speaker 1: makes us feel unworthy. Or we experience our skill above
Speaker 1: our challenge that makes us feel bored, it makes us
Speaker 1: for lethargic, just feel complacent. So what I say to
Speaker 1: people is if you want to feel progress and not
Speaker 1: work on perfection, just focus on making your skill and
Speaker 1: your challenge a line and that will create such a
Speaker 1: powerful mode to help you focus on your skill and
Speaker 1: your challenge, not on perfectional progress, and it gives you
Speaker 1: something worthy to focus on. So that's what I always
Speaker 1: focus on. If I find something too easy, I'm like,
Speaker 1: what challenge do I need to take on? And if
Speaker 1: I find something really hard, I'm like, what skill don't
Speaker 1: I have? So I'm not worried about perfectional progress. I'm
Speaker 1: more worried about my skill and my challenge, Well.
Speaker 2: I have a question. Yeah, is there something that I
Speaker 2: should be asking you that I haven't asked you?
Speaker 1: No, I think you have asked brilliant questions. This has
Speaker 1: been such a fun conversation. I've answered so many questions
Speaker 1: that I've never been asked before. That's credit to you
Speaker 1: and your research and preparation. And I've had such a
Speaker 1: good time talking to you.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, thank you. Let's close this with your message
Speaker 2: of love and connection over the course of your career,
Speaker 2: over the course of this book. I think it's phenomenal
Speaker 2: and it's so powerful. So what advice last advice do
Speaker 2: you have for those who may be struggling to cultivate
Speaker 2: meaningful connections in their lives and what can they do
Speaker 2: to kind of deepen the connections they already have.
Speaker 1: Connect with people who want to connect with you. I
Speaker 1: think most of our issues come when we're trying to
Speaker 1: connect with people who don't want to connect with us, right,
Speaker 1: And I promise you you may think you make effort
Speaker 1: with people who don't make effort with you. I promise
Speaker 1: you there are people who make effort with you that
Speaker 1: you don't make effort with. I guarantee you there are
Speaker 1: people there that text you more than you text them,
Speaker 1: but you don't want to text with them. You want
Speaker 1: to text with someone else. And we live in this
Speaker 1: world where we are constantly chasing, pursuing, wanting to be
Speaker 1: around different people. But there are people who love you
Speaker 1: right now that you're disconnected from, and so connect with
Speaker 1: people who want to connect with you. Make an effort
Speaker 1: with people who make an effort with you. Sure, make
Speaker 1: new efforts and try and connect with new people, but
Speaker 1: don't chase someone who's clearly showing you that they don't
Speaker 1: have space for you in their life. That doesn't make
Speaker 1: them a bad person, they just don't have time right now.
Speaker 2: I like that. It's kind of it's your childhood trauma.
Speaker 2: You're chasing that I love you didn't get as a child.
Speaker 2: And then it's talked about a long time ago, where
Speaker 2: you spend your whole life thinking people don't love you,
Speaker 2: and then when you actually pay attention, you realize all
Speaker 2: these people around you do love you. They've been trying
Speaker 2: to show you love. And you said, you're like, why
Speaker 2: doesn't that person out life?
Speaker 1: Yes, that's often what our life is. That is exactly
Speaker 1: what it is. We're looking at the one person that
Speaker 1: we want love from, as opposed to looking at the
Speaker 1: ten people are showing us love.
Speaker 2: How do we stop then and become aware? Because self
Speaker 2: awareness is not easy, How do you finally like, you
Speaker 2: know what enough? I don't want to chase this person anymore.
Speaker 2: They don't love me.
Speaker 1: It will only happen the more you connect with the
Speaker 1: people who do love you, you'll naturally feel it. You'll
Speaker 1: feel less needy, you feel less fomo, you'll feel less disconnected.
Speaker 1: So it's not about I think sometimes we think I
Speaker 1: have to disconnect first to connect somewhere else. It's the
Speaker 1: other way around. If I go and connect with the
Speaker 1: people I want to connect with, who naturally disconnect from
Speaker 1: the people that I don't need it.
Speaker 2: So you have to unlearn your all behavior in a way,
Speaker 2: because if actually thinking chasing someone, that's what love is
Speaker 2: versus this person's saying. If I'm so used to only
Speaker 2: chasing love, if you're sitting next to me and you're
Speaker 2: showing me love, I'm not going to understand.
Speaker 1: This is love. That you've just hit the nail on
Speaker 1: the head. That's exactly.
Speaker 2: It's all because of your book.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, But that's exactly it that we have
Speaker 1: that is so well said. We've conditioned ourselves to believe
Speaker 1: that love is chasing someone, which means even when the
Speaker 1: most loving person is sitting right next to us. Or
Speaker 1: we've convinced ourselves that love means fixing someone, and so
Speaker 1: we keep finding people to fix. Or we've convinced ourselves
Speaker 1: that love means saving someone, so we keep finding someone
Speaker 1: to save, and so we keep looking for someone to fix,
Speaker 1: someone to save, someone to chase, not realizing that love
Speaker 1: men who's willing to sit with me right now and
Speaker 1: be present.
Speaker 2: I agree because, like I said in the past, when
Speaker 2: I grew up with my parents, we're all together. My
Speaker 2: mom showed me so much love. She's the most loving
Speaker 2: person of ever in my life. My dad didn't, and
Speaker 2: I chase that so much, and my mom would show
Speaker 2: me love. I thought, that's so weak. She cries so easily.
Speaker 2: She's overly loving. And my father forget who my birthday was,
Speaker 2: and I was like, that's my hero.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly exactly, and we get trained. That's a perfect example.
Speaker 2: Okay, so where can people find you?
Speaker 1: You can find me in my new book, of Course,
Speaker 1: with a great Place, which is eight rules of love
Speaker 1: dot com. You can find me on my podcast on
Speaker 1: Purpose and which is across all platforms, and you can
Speaker 1: find me on Instagram and TikTok at j Sheddy Okay Perfect.
Speaker 2: And then you're currently also your first ever world tour
Speaker 2: Love Rules, So you guys can go to Jshatdy tour
Speaker 2: dot com for tickets and also be my description. And
Speaker 2: you can follow Jay on Instagram and subscribe to his
Speaker 2: podcast if you can already subscribe, which I surprised his
Speaker 2: podcast is on Purpose. If you have any questions, make
Speaker 2: sure to DM him and follow him. Is there anything
Speaker 2: else you want to add?
Speaker 1: No, I just want to say thank you to you.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having such a genuine, thoughtful
Speaker 1: conversation and doing so much incredible preparation, asking such great questions,
Speaker 1: such amazing I would just say to be a letter
Speaker 1: and for all of you that listen via Letter's amazing host,
Speaker 1: because when I said something today, I felt like she
Speaker 1: was internalizing it, reflecting it, and you could see her
Speaker 1: do what I hope everyone else is doing. And I
Speaker 1: think that makes you an amazing host to actually do
Speaker 1: that live and in real time and apply it to
Speaker 1: your own life. And I think that's going to benefit
Speaker 1: your community, and obviously it is, that's why they follow you.
Speaker 1: But I just want everyone to know that that's a
Speaker 1: really special skill. So thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for saying that.
Speaker 1: Of course I mean it.
Speaker 2: Okay, bye, you guys, have a beautiful day.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I read something mind boggling recently. Most of
Speaker 1: the cells in our body completely renewed themselves over our lifetimes,
Speaker 1: some in just a few days. Make no bones about it.
Speaker 1: Were literally built for change. Yeah, for some reason, we
Speaker 1: resist it. The next seven minutes are about you and
Speaker 1: how to change your attitude towards well change. I'm Jay Shaddy.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Daily Jay. Now let's get centered with
Speaker 1: three mindful breaths inhaling and exhaling, feeling the air flow
Speaker 1: in and feeling it flow out, bringing your attention to
Speaker 1: this moment, and settling in to the here and now.
Speaker 1: There's an old story about a man who had been
Speaker 1: struggling with anxiety. He heard that meditation could support his
Speaker 1: mental and emotional health, so he went to a local
Speaker 1: mindfulness center and started taking classes on his own. He
Speaker 1: practiced diligently, getting up every morning and meditating to begin
Speaker 1: the day. One night, a few weeks after starting his practice,
Speaker 1: the man stayed after class to talk with his teacher.
Speaker 1: I don't know what's wrong, he said. I'm doing everything
Speaker 1: you described. I'm sitting every day, I'm breathing, I'm noticing
Speaker 1: thoughts and trying to release them. But I just can't
Speaker 1: get my mind to calm down. It's not working. The
Speaker 1: teacher nodded and smiled. It's okay, she said, keep meditating.
Speaker 1: It will change. The man was skeptical, but he kept meditating.
Speaker 1: A few months later, the man stayed after class again,
Speaker 1: this time with good news for his teacher. Everything's changed,
Speaker 1: meaned just like you said. I'm finally feeling it. All
Speaker 1: the calm, the relaxation. I can easily clear my mind.
Speaker 1: It's wonderful. The teacher nodded and smiled. Keep meditating, she said,
Speaker 1: it will change. If only we could freeze those good feelings,
Speaker 1: those times in life when things are going our way.
Speaker 1: We had a great day at work or a fantastic date.
Speaker 1: We're feeling energized and healthy, and we think, finally it's
Speaker 1: all coming together. Then when things shift, as they inevitably,
Speaker 1: do we feel despondent, angry or frustrated. Today was a
Speaker 1: struggle at work. We're feeling misunderstood by our partner. We're
Speaker 1: feeling burned out and warm thin. In these moments, it
Speaker 1: feels like things will never change. But there is no
Speaker 1: feeling in the world that is eternal, and there is
Speaker 1: no feeling in the world that is eternally absent. Whatever
Speaker 1: you're experiencing, it will change on some level. We know this,
Speaker 1: and yet we either push back against it or we
Speaker 1: try and rush the change. But wishing your life would
Speaker 1: stop changing is like hoping that summer won't turn to autumn,
Speaker 1: and trying to rush change is like telling winter to
Speaker 1: hurry up and become spring. Just like in nature, life
Speaker 1: happens in seasons, and while it seems like some seasons
Speaker 1: are good and others are bad, attachment and aversion are
Speaker 1: really just different sides of the same coin. They can
Speaker 1: make change more difficult or painful than it needs to be.
Speaker 1: By labeling the shift as good or bad, we're judging
Speaker 1: the moment. We're resisting the flow of life. Instead, when
Speaker 1: we learn to accept change, we're able to embrace whatever
Speaker 1: life gives us. Then we'll be able to meet each
Speaker 1: moment with courage. Clarity and composure. So today good or bad,
Speaker 1: happy or sad, calm or stressed, just let it flow.
Speaker 1: And with that in mind, let's meditate and then reflect
Speaker 1: on your approach to change. So get comfortable wherever you are,
Speaker 1: giving yourself the permission to release a little tension, closing
Speaker 1: your eyes if you feel like it will help you
Speaker 1: settle in the natural rhythm of the breath in and out,
Speaker 1: observing how your body feels. You can rest your attention
Speaker 1: on any part of this moment and see if you
Speaker 1: can bring an attitude of acceptance to whatever you're experiencing.
Speaker 1: If something feels good, we're not trying to hold onto it,
Speaker 1: And if something feels challenging or uncomfortable, we're not trying
Speaker 1: to change it. We're just noticing what is and allowing
Speaker 1: ourselves to be okay with that, breathing in and breathing out,
Speaker 1: stretching up and sinking down. And now let's open this up.
Speaker 1: Think about your relationship with change. Are you familiar with
Speaker 1: attachment or aversion? Do you meet change with resistance? Can
Speaker 1: you let go of your grip on the good times?
Speaker 1: Relax your rush during tough times? I know this might
Speaker 1: be easiest, said than done, but remember we're built for change.
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful to you for joining me today. I'll
Speaker 1: see you tomorrow.