WEBVTT - Is a head transplant really a thing? 0:00:01.200 --> 0:00:04.640 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:14.160 dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.840 There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, There's Jerry. There's stuff you 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:22.599 should know, and it's stuff you should know about something 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:27.200 that has nothing to do with the sun. Are you relieved? Yes? 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:34.600 Are you uh suffering post traumatic podcast disorder a little bit? Yeah? 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:38.280 But but overall I'm feeling good about this. Okay, about 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:42.120 this one coming up? Yeah, fin as strong? Yeah? What 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:45.920 did Jerry say, always do the suck on in first? Yeah? Well, 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:50.159 so far, so good. Yep. It just remains to be 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:52.400 seen whether this one's great. But I don't see how 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.000 it could be worse than the Aurora one. Well, this 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:59.880 one about human head transplants. UM. After I picked it, 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:04.360 I thought, gee, should we even be covering this, because well, 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:11.400 if you read opinion pieces about this potential head transplant surgery, 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:14.760 which we'll get to, a lot of people are saying like, 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:19.360 this is this is bad, this is junk science, this 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:22.480 is dangerous medicine, and you shouldn't even be talking about 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:25.920 this stuff, right. But then I read an article in 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:30.560 The Atlantic, um, and it's The Atlantic, and I was like, 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:33.640 you know what, if they're covering this, uh, then we 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:35.880 should cover it too. And people probably said the same 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:39.640 thing about kidney transplants and heart transplants and skin graphs. 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:41.880 You know, oh yeah, for sure. But I think the 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:44.600 big difference with this is and I think this is 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:48.560 what the medical and bioethical community has a problem with. 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:56.000 There's this one maverick possibly lunatic scientist surgeon who was 0:01:56.240 --> 0:02:02.880 plowing ahead with this, Sir dree with the rest of 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:07.840 the medical field worldwide basically saying stop, stop, like you 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:11.240 can't do this. This is We're not there yet, and 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:15.160 he's saying, nope, we're there. I've even got somebody who's 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:19.839 willing to do this. We're gonna give it a shot. Well, yes, yes, 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:23.920 and no. He's a lot of that is in this 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:27.399 Atlantic article really kind of spells everything out. A lot 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:32.880 of that is, um bravado out of this dude. And 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:35.960 there is probably no way that he's going to do 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:38.959 this in December of this year, like he said he is. Yeah, 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.040 he's said that he is going to go ahead with 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:44.680 the surgery, at least officially, is what he's saying. In 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:48.200 December of two thousand and seventeen. That's not gonna happen. Specifically, 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:52.560 he's going to do it with a Russian computer engineer 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:57.320 named Valerie Spirit and off, and um, that may not 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:01.480 happen with him. He see he has a spirit enough, 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:04.280 has something called word nig Hoffman disease, which is a 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:11.040 spinal spinal muscular dystrophy. And um, has he backed out 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:14.320 now because he seemed pretty gung ho and everything I saw. No, 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:17.160 he's gung ho, but he is on record of saying like, 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:20.320 I don't want to be a part of an expensive 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:28.840 euthanasia uh whatever procedure. Yeah, well that makes sense. I mean, 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:31.240 the whole reason he wants to do this is to 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.040 to get better, to improve his lot. He's wheelchair bound 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:37.240 and his his muscles are withering away. Uh, and he's 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:41.480 thirty and he he wants to be mobile again. But yeah, 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:46.200 I would imagine, Yeah, he doesn't want to do this 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:50.440 just to die, right, So he's kind of um and 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:52.480 what we're talking about, I guess we should just go ahead. 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:55.800 And if people are severely confused, it's called the human 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:59.200 head transplant, but what it really is is a human 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:02.640 body trans plant. Because what you're doing is is you're 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:07.640 taking a person in this case, this Russian gentleman who 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:13.280 has a fully functioning brain and from the neck up 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:17.040 is fine, but his body is wasting away. And one 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:19.720 they get to the point where they can do the surgery, 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:22.880 they're going to get a body from a recently very 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:27.120 recently deceased person or or soon to be deceased person. Yeah. 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:30.480 They would just need to be brain dead. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:35.960 Um and move the heads, which would in turn give 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:42.320 what's his name Valerie a new body. Yes, which is 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:44.840 is radical of a thing as you could ever imagine. 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:50.000 There is no more radical medical procedure as we currently 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:54.600 stand right now, No, no chance, not even close. And 0:04:54.640 --> 0:04:57.279 it's not like they're even swapping the heads. The donor's 0:04:57.320 --> 0:05:02.280 head just gets thrown away well in a bucket, Yeah, 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.360 I guess for for a little chuck to find. Yeah, 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:08.760 I didn't think about that, but um they're yeah, you 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:11.800 don't put it back on. No, there's no point in it. 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:17.159 So this this head transplant, our body transplant, depending on 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:20.760 your perspective the whole idea. Obviously, it's kind of an 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:24.680 old idea, like it goes back to Frankenstein, and you 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:27.720 can make a case that Frankenstein is based on even 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:31.320 earlier stuff like creating a gollum from clay, that kind 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:37.080 of stuff. Um, But the idea is not new, but 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:42.559 the idea that it could actually be done is fairly new. Um. 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:46.680 The this surgeon who's planning on carrying it out, Dr 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:51.479 Sergio uh kind of arrow. He published an article in 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:56.560 two thousand thirteen and said here's how I plan to 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:58.080 do this, and we'll get to that in a minute. 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:01.440 But in the article that he wrote, the journal article 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:03.960 he wrote laying out how the surgery could be done. 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:07.119 One of the first things he does a site um 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:11.760 similar surgeries that were carried out on animals. Yeah, which 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:16.640 we've covered these before and um, past episodes I think 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:19.680 on like I think one of them was a top 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:25.040 ten list like awful medical procedures or something I can't remember. 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:29.719 But this one one case specifically that stands out. There 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:35.440 was a Russian doctor name of Vladimir Demikoff, and he 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:41.040 very famously grafted the head and four legs of one 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:46.479 dog onto another dog. Um, And apparently the both of 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:50.400 the heads could smell and hear and see and swallow 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:56.880 and scream and lived. Um. I think he did this 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.560 a few times, and the biggest success was one of 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:03.920 these dogs live for twenty nine days, right, which is actually, 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:08.480 from what I'm seeing, that's a very very long time. Um. 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:13.640 And this is at a time in the what you say, Um, 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:17.280 this is a time when the only successful transplants that 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:19.960 had been carried out in humans were bone blood vessels 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:24.200 and corneas. They've never done a major organ transplantet And 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:27.680 this guy's getting dogs with grafted heads, two heads to 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:29.760 live for twenty nine days. So it was a big deal. 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:32.440 But even still, and I'm sure at the time people 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:37.880 were like, that's pretty tasteless, um when looking back historically, 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:40.880 like why it don't do that? Stop? I wish that 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:45.120 had never happened. What were you doing? And apparently Demikov's 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:50.280 ultimate goal was to just basically get transplants down and 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:53.800 create a bank of organs, an oregan bank, to where 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:56.720 if you need a transplant, you could get any transplant 0:07:56.720 --> 0:07:59.680 you needed any time. Um, transplants would just be so 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:03.560 teen And he saw this as a means to to 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:09.640 an end learning techniques, because apparently grafting dogs together would 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.800 help you with that, right, which I mean, it makes 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:15.600 makes a case. Yeah, he wasn't a mad scientist. He 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:19.640 was trying to advance medicine. Uh So in nineteen seventy 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:22.600 that was there a notice. There's just been really big 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:24.559 gaps and a lot of this stuff for good reason, 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:27.400 I guess. Um. But in nineteen seventy and right here 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:31.160 in the United States, uh, there was a recus monkey 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:35.880 in Cleveland and one Dr Robert White performed ahead transplant 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:41.160 and the monkey survived neurologically for thirty six hours. But 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:47.920 I believe he never actually connected the spinal cord. No, no, 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:52.400 And that's the big the biggest hurdle right now. Yeah, 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:56.760 it was and still is so so Dr White, I mean, still, 0:08:56.880 --> 0:09:00.680 this is pretty significant. He transplanted ahead and from one 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:05.839 monkey to another and managed to um connect the the 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:11.640 major veins and arteries um and resuscitated, managed to resuscitate 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:15.520 the monkey um and it lived for a few days. 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:21.000 But um, apparently it was just an awful thing, even 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:23.200 even at the time. One of the scientists that was 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:27.240 there who's actually become um Dr Cannavero, the surgeon who 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:30.000 wants to do the human head transplant. This this other 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:32.599 guy has become one of his greatest and most outspoken 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:36.280 public critics. Um, he was there at the time when 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:39.400 this this um experiment in nineteen seventy was carried out, 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:41.680 and he said, this is this is a terrible thing 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:44.920 to do, even to a monkey. Said, we tried to 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:47.240 feed it. The first time we fed it, the food 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:51.280 spilled out of its tricky onto the floor. Um, it 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:54.040 was just an awful thing. And this guy is really 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:57.720 beating the drum to like stop Dr Cannavero from from 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:00.440 carrying this out because he was there saying where he 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:04.960 saw that, he saw the monkey experiments. But Canavero is saying, 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:07.720 you can say that all you want, all the food 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:10.600 could have spilled that on the floor, doesn't matter because 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:14.880 it was successful. The monkey was revived for three days. 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:20.080 But everybody agrees there was there. They didn't connect the 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:22.599 spinal column, and that's the big hurdle. That's one of 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:26.440 the biggest unknowns with the actual head transplant. Yeah, and 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:30.680 more recently in the past couple of years, in fact, 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:33.920 I think just last year, there's a surgeon who's actually 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:40.440 partnered up with the Italian doctor named um Gialping wren 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:44.160 Uh and he's a surgeon in Harbin, China who has 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:48.480 successfully done this on mice. Yeah, he's also partnered with 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:54.400 another UM researcher at khon Kook University in Soul, Korea, Korea, 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:57.640 who's also carrying these these some stuff out on mice. 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:03.680 And Canavero's based clee using these studies to say, hey, 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:07.439 this is possible, but apparently the scientific community is saying 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:11.600 this is these are not necessarily good studies. Well and 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:15.280 Wren Dr Wren in China, like before not gather, he 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:18.760 is UM. He's the one that's saying like, let's just 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:22.920 slow our role here, UM and do this if we 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:25.040 ever try to do it, do it when we really 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:27.840 think we can. Like I've done a monkey, I've done 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:32.400 some mice. Um, we're not ready to do it human yet. 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:36.160 So let's just not talk about um. Valerie in December 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:42.000 of and please stop doing TED talks and going on 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.360 news programs and just shut up for a little while. 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:49.319 But it doesn't sound like that since Sergio Cannaverro's d 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:55.479 n A. No, he is very brash sort of he's 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:57.720 he they said in this article. He uses he says 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:00.680 bread instead of money, like hey, if I can't raise 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:04.200 the money, I'll go to uh, someone like Zuckerberg and 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:07.520 get the bread to do this. It says here in 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:10.520 the Atlantic article. He says Cannabaro tends to make blowhard 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:15.440 statements that denigrate his critics, like this, I'm into jiu jitsu. 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:18.480 Jiu jitsu. He told me so, I have the martial 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:20.720 arts mind that you need to tackle all the morons 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:24.880 that come with idiotic questions. He's not doing himself any favors. Yeah, 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:26.760 I don't think he sees it like that from what 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:29.800 I'm seeing, Like there's this I saw um where I 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:32.160 get all my news, the Daily Mail. I saw a 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:36.280 Daily Mail article on him and his procedure, and it 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:41.120 has a photo shoot of him wearing scrubs with a 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:46.000 man's head on a platter. Like doctors don't do that. 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:48.600 They don't do photo shoots like that. They are not 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:52.120 trying to court controversy. Like, yes, if you're a surgeon 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:55.000 like you, you have some part of your fiber is 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:58.800 pretty cocky and arrogant, maybe even have a God complex. 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:03.400 I think it's kind of required typically with um, with 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:08.240 that field that profession. Right, this guy is exponentially beyond 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:12.240 anything that's even high end for a normal surgeon as 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:17.880 far as egotism and um and blow hardness goes. Most 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:22.120 of them don't don't boast about jiu jitsu publicly. No. Uh. 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:26.240 In fact, the most scientists and doctors, um, most don't 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:28.920 like him at all. They said, this is one quote. Uh. 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:32.959 He glibly glides past major problems with his human centipede 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:37.480 level medical horror show. His plan is insane, like James 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:41.440 Bond villain, insane and will amount to an elaborate act 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:47.160 of slow torture and murder. So I think he's partially 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:50.160 obviously really like that as a dude. But they don't 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.200 have the money it takes. They don't have the bread, 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:54.920 like a hundred million dollars to do this, And I 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:58.719 think he thinks all this media attention is what is 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.360 going to get him the bread to carry out this operation. 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:04.760 You're gonna call it bread from now on. Just through 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:07.160 this show, did you see a hundred million dollars? And 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:10.160 most I saw his thirteen million. Oh, I mean, I've 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:12.240 seen it all over the place, that's the thing I've seen. 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:16.240 It takes anywhere from thirty doctors to a hundred doctors 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:18.200 to assist in this, which is one of the other 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:22.520 big problems is getting up to a hundred legit doctors 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:26.880 that will do this, right, you know, this guy's like 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:31.200 walking clickbait. So let's take a break, man, and then 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:34.600 we'll come back and we'll we'll we'll tell all the 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:59.320 grizzly details of his plan. M hm alright, Chuck. So 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.920 back in two thousand thirteen, the Sergio Canavera hit the 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:09.400 scene in a journal. Um, oh, what's the journal called 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:13.080 Surgical Neurology International. It's an open source journal. Yeah, he's 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:15.120 no quack. We should point out he's been published a lot, 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:18.480 and he's a legit surgeon, right, Like, he obviously knows 0:15:18.480 --> 0:15:21.320 what he's talking about. It's just the gamble that he's 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:27.040 taking is so so obviously stacked against him that you 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:29.840 that I think most people would say you would have 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:33.320 to be insane to actually do it, or so reckless 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:36.640 and indifferent to the fate of your patient that you 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:39.640 shouldn't be practicing medicine in the first place. Yeah, because 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:44.080 almost the doctors that they've talked to said this will 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:47.160 end in this man's death. Yeah, like, like think about this. 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:51.120 They're working on rats. Rats have the best outcome of 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:56.240 any animal so far, and there they have like thirty 0:15:56.360 --> 0:16:00.400 to fifty survival rate among rats. But even that just 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:04.960 means that survived no more than one day after having 0:16:05.000 --> 0:16:08.200 their head transplanted. They died from the surgery one way 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:11.120 or another. It's just that survival rate means that they 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:15.240 were managed to be revived after the surgery. It doesn't 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.440 mean that they went on to live a healthy life 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.240 and bounce their grandchildren on their knee. They died within 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:23.520 a day. Yeah, there's no way that it wouldn't kill 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.320 a human being. Yeah, I mean, even if the guy survived, 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:29.880 the likelihood of him being like, well I got my 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:34.560 new body now is is like zero. Watch me bench this. 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:38.720 Although he's uh, Cannavero said he has a nine chance 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.840 of living a regular life, and Dr Wrenn in China 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:45.960 saying no, he doesn't quit saying that. You know, yeah, 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:49.320 this guy is he's exactly the kind of surgeon for 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:52.960 this age, isn't he He really is actually us nineties 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.040 chance to have a normal life. Where'd you get that? Well, 0:16:56.080 --> 0:17:02.200 it just sounds good that, yeah, he fits with the times. 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:07.400 So back in two thirteen, in that journal Surgical Neurology International, UM, 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:11.840 Canavero published basically a step by step outline of how 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:15.680 this um, this surgery would go down, and it's it's 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:19.800 not super in depth, it's just it's basically an overview, 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:24.120 but it hits, you know, most of the salient points. 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:30.080 And he's basically gone and taking different surgeries and assemble 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:35.080 them into this one massive surgery that would be a 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:38.120 head transplant from one donor to the next, or one 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:41.880 donor to the recipient. Yeah, and I think even doctors say, 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:46.240 this isn't like, you know, he's not crazy, Like when 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:49.280 you look at it, it's it all kind of makes sense. 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:53.080 They're just saying like it's it's not gonna work, and 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:55.760 it makes sense. Yeah, yeah, totally. And the big stumbling 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:57.879 block is going to be the spinal cord because basically 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:00.879 everything else he's he's all these other urgeri that is 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:04.960 cobbling together are proven surgeries, like they can be done. 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:11.200 It's that's that connecting the spinal cord um. That's that's 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:14.879 the biggest obstacle during the surgery. All right, should we 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:17.879 go through this thing? But so the first thing you 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:22.680 do is you need two teams, uh, two surgery teams obviously, 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.359 because you have two bodies in there in the same 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.040 operating theater. Yeah, you there's got to be a very 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:30.280 quick I think they said the heads have to be 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:33.040 or the head has to be reattached in like under 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:36.680 an hour to have any chance, right, but the spinal 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:40.720 columns have to be reattached within less than two minutes. 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:44.120 But you have an hour for the whole procedure from 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:47.000 from the moment the heads are cut off. So the 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:50.679 first step, Chuck, is remember how we had UM. We 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:56.680 did an episode on therapeutic hypothermia. So they're they plan 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:00.879 to use therapeutic hypothermia where they cool the head of 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:05.280 the recipient down to like fifty degrees, which you know 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:09.960 normally it's point six degrees and at that temperature um 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:16.280 metabolism slows tremendously. So since you have fewer processes going 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:19.040 on into the cells, you have less of a need 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:21.960 for oxygen, which is good because you're cutting the head 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:24.280 off of the body and oxygen can be hard to 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:28.359 come by. So by um cooling the head down to 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:31.720 fifty I think fifty four degrees ferret height, which is 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:37.120 I believed ten degrees celsius um, the metabolism slows down 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:40.119 enough that you're buying yourself that hour. Remember there's that 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:43.680 our time limit. That's because you've cooled down the head, 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:47.760 slowing the metabolism, and um, that gives you that hour 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:50.560 to carry out the surgery. So you're cooling the head 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:54.640 on the recipient, and then you're cooling the spinal column 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:59.200 to the same temperature on the donor, right, So uh, 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.879 everyone's gotten cooled down to that point. The recipient is 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.639 gonna be lying down at first, and then later like 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:08.560 during the surgery and then during recovery and everything. Um, 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:12.760 he's going to be in a seated position. Um, because 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:15.880 I guess, I guess that just makes sense. With gravity, 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:19.760 you'd want to be seated, doesn't that make sense? I 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:23.040 think it makes the surgery easier for the surgeons too well, 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:25.119 but during recovery too, Like they're not gonna lay him 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:28.000 back down. I don't think I'll ever be allowed to 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:31.600 lay down again. Maybe not so. Uh. They make the 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:36.119 incisions at each neck, they expose arteries, the spine, the 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:41.040 jugular veins. UM. Obviously they're gonna clamp everything off. Um. 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:46.199 They color code all the muscles um, which sounds funny, 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:50.040 but it's actually pretty smart. I guess. Um, just like 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:53.159 wires in a in a circuit would be color coded. Uh, 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:55.480 they want everything hooked back up to the right thing, 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:59.320 so there color coding muscles and they leave the spinal 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:03.959 cord for the last thing. Yeah, this is the this 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:06.000 this is the very very tricky part here. This is 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:08.840 where everybody's like, Okay, you're crazy if you try this. 0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:15.159 But Dr Cannavero says, if you cut the spines the 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:19.119 spinal columns of each of the um the donor and 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:23.199 the recipient with a sharp enough blade, and you make 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:29.000 a surgical cut, you should be able to promote regeneration 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:33.000 of those nerves that you're cutting, UM when you reattach 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:36.480 them that if if the cut is precise enough, the 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:42.159 damage that's normally associated with a surgical sever or not 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:45.320 a surgical sever, spinal sever from like some sort of 0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:49.320 trauma injury, UM, you won't have all the attendant like 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:53.880 scarification and inflammation that you would from that if you're 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:58.520 doing it surgically with surgical precision. That's a big that's 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:00.800 a big thing that he's saying. Yeah, that's one of 0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:04.399 the biggest um stumbling blocks to getting these nerves to 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:07.600 reconnect is the second they're cut, they're gonna start to 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:11.800 form scar tissue. Which makes it much harder to reattach. 0:22:11.960 --> 0:22:15.480 So in the case of these mice and China, they 0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:18.560 use a one thousand dollar scalpel with a diamond blade 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:23.000 so thin that it's transparent and so, Um, this is 0:22:23.000 --> 0:22:26.520 too small obviously for this procedure, but they're gonna get 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:30.639 a scalpel like that big enough to you know, to 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:34.760 work on a human. Right. So here's actually will just 0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:37.359 say a lot of the things that are that people 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:40.239 object to with this. But but what what kind of 0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:46.160 arrows saying? Um, is that with this cut when you 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:50.040 when you take the spines, are we at the head yet? 0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:54.240 Have we moved the head? Um? Well, yeah, we've We've 0:22:54.280 --> 0:22:56.560 cut the head and there people should rest easy knowing 0:22:56.560 --> 0:22:59.080 they're not just picking the head up. Apparently, it's gonna 0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:02.560 be transferred on a on a specially built crane with 0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:06.639 vel grow straps. And the crane is actually kind of 0:23:06.680 --> 0:23:10.480 clever too because it can just hold it aloft above 0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:15.720 the donor body, right, So that allows for the surgeons 0:23:15.760 --> 0:23:19.040 to connect everything again in comfort without having to get 0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:22.439 into any weird positions or whatever. Um, with the floating 0:23:22.520 --> 0:23:25.800 head staring at them. Yeah, the floating head hanging over 0:23:25.920 --> 0:23:29.040 the seated, headless body. Man, this is the point that 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:33.080 we're right now. So one of the first things they'll do, um, well, 0:23:33.119 --> 0:23:35.359 the first thing that they're doing, because remember you have 0:23:35.480 --> 0:23:38.120 less than two minutes between when you cut the spinal 0:23:38.119 --> 0:23:42.680 column and when you reattach it um. So the first 0:23:42.680 --> 0:23:46.359 thing they're gonna do is attach the spinal column in 0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:50.879 the recipient's head and the spinal column in the donor's body. 0:23:51.359 --> 0:23:54.359 And they're gonna put this stuff in that apparently is 0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:59.679 made of magic, and it's called PEG polyethylene glycol glue, 0:24:00.000 --> 0:24:05.639 a medical surgical glue that supposedly work some some wonders 0:24:05.680 --> 0:24:09.480 on the body. Yeah, it is like magic, and I 0:24:09.480 --> 0:24:11.720 don't understand how it works. I'm not going to pretend 0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:16.840 on this show. But um in China with these mice, uh, 0:24:17.320 --> 0:24:19.920 before they did the transplant, they would literally just take 0:24:20.359 --> 0:24:22.800 this blade. They would sever the spinal cord of this 0:24:22.880 --> 0:24:26.160 poor little mouse and then they would take it. That's 0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:30.000 apparently it looks like watered down scotch and they would, uh, 0:24:30.080 --> 0:24:31.720 it's like an amber fluid, and they would take a 0:24:31.760 --> 0:24:35.680 drop of it, drop it on that little spinal column, 0:24:35.880 --> 0:24:40.880 stitch the mouse up, and then the mouse would walk again. Yeah, 0:24:40.960 --> 0:24:43.439 that's that's something that they were reporting from those that 0:24:43.560 --> 0:24:47.840 these mice had their spinal columns totally severed and then 0:24:47.920 --> 0:24:52.600 reattached glued together with pilot polyethylene glycol. And yeah, within 0:24:52.760 --> 0:24:55.040 what like three weeks I think, or a couple of weeks, 0:24:55.080 --> 0:24:58.040 the mice were walking again. This one was two days. 0:24:59.200 --> 0:25:01.439 It was the do that took three weeks. Yeah, and 0:25:01.440 --> 0:25:04.400 it said the mouse did not walk perfectly. Its back 0:25:04.480 --> 0:25:10.600 legs lurched at times. But what compared to a control mouse. Uh, yeah, 0:25:10.680 --> 0:25:13.600 the control mouse could couldn't walk. It would just pull 0:25:13.720 --> 0:25:18.600 the back legs behind itself. So, um, this this polyethylene glycol, right, 0:25:18.600 --> 0:25:23.080 Apparently what it does is it it's hydrophilic and it 0:25:23.119 --> 0:25:28.000 attracts fats to it, so it'll go in you you 0:25:28.080 --> 0:25:32.800 squirt some into like the the incision or the gap 0:25:32.920 --> 0:25:36.640 between the two spinal columns, and allegedly what it will 0:25:36.680 --> 0:25:41.720 do is attract these damaged cells and basically fuse them together. 0:25:41.920 --> 0:25:46.680 They fused together and regenerate basically into cells. That's one 0:25:46.680 --> 0:25:51.720 thing it does. And then there's this this pig that's 0:25:51.840 --> 0:25:56.000 um kind of enhanced. I guess that these researchers at 0:25:56.080 --> 0:25:58.600 RICE University are coming up what they call it Texas 0:25:58.600 --> 0:26:04.960 peg um that has graphene nano spirals in it, and 0:26:05.040 --> 0:26:08.320 those serve as basically a structure for the cells to 0:26:08.400 --> 0:26:11.880 grow along. And the whole point of using PEG here, 0:26:11.880 --> 0:26:15.000 aside from the fact that it can help cells repair 0:26:15.040 --> 0:26:20.520