1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production. I heart radio. 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: When I joined, I didn't know anything about television. I 3 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: didn't even like it. My interview was with Fred, who said, so, 4 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: what kind of music do you like? And I think 5 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: I said Bruce Springsteen, I'm not sure. He said, well, 6 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,760 Speaker 1: you're wrong, and I'll tell you why. And then about 7 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 1: forty five minutes later, I left, not having said anything else. 8 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,319 Speaker 1: And the next thing I know, they were like, look, 9 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: this is just a few of us. We're trying to 10 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: get this thing going. If you'd like to join, And 11 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: it was kind of like, how fast can I get 12 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: out the door of Conde Nas and jump on this thing? 13 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: Whatever it is? These people are crazy. I'm Bob Pittman, 14 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: and welcome to Math and Magic Stories from the Frontiers 15 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:52,959 Speaker 1: and Marketing. This is a place where we're looking at 16 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: both sides of the marketing equation, math and magic, and 17 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 1: along the way we're gonna hear some good stories. And 18 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: today we're gonna hear some really good stories from Judy McGrath. 19 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: Judy is an old old Palamne. We started at MTV 20 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: in those early days when we were the twenties something crowd. 21 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: She has done an awful lot. She started in MTV 22 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: and worked her way all the way up to CEO 23 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: of MTV Networks, which included Nickelodeon a bunch of other networks. 24 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: She is a role model for creatives, women and people 25 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: from a little small towns in Pennsylvania. Also as a 26 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:32,559 Speaker 1: board member at Amazon, which has to be a treat 27 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: into itself. Judy is well known as a magician and 28 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: probably not as well known and not appreciate as much 29 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: as being a pretty good mathematician too. You make some 30 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 1: really hard business decisions as well. So I want to 31 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: jump into all that, but first I want to do 32 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: you in sixty seconds. Are you ready read? Do you 33 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: prefer cats or dogs, beetles or stones both? Oh? No, okay, 34 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: Taylor or Kanye Kanye, East Coast or West Coast Coast, 35 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: MTV or v H one each one early nineties. Ah, 36 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: that's pretty good. Okay, beavas or butt head Daria. Oh 37 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: that's why you're creative. You're the off beat. Okay, favorite city, 38 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: New York, secret talent piano play. I didn't know that 39 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: would eat for breakfast? Coffee, coffee, coffee, and more coffee. 40 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: What would you eat for your last meal? Don't say coffee. 41 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 1: I would have a peanut butter sandwich with my daughter 42 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 1: and my husband's childhood hero, Believe it or not, Leonard Bernstein. 43 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 1: I wanted to conduct an orchestra. A favorite TV show 44 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: The Americans Historical Idol, one of the Bronte Sisters, any 45 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: of them? I read, Jane, are twenty five times worst 46 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: fat or fashion trend you've participated in? Or that you 47 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: saw an MTV super big power shouldered jackets. You looked 48 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: a brain in it. By the way, what did you 49 00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: want to be when you were growing up? A reporter? 50 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: What's one food you'd never eat? Hua gras. What are 51 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: you most proud of early days of MTV? What are 52 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: you listening to? Our watching right now? Listening? Oh, listening, 53 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 1: I love listening. Oh you know slow Burn, a lot 54 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 1: of the news ones, the Daily Vox, Bob Pittman's podcast. Yeah, 55 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: you know. I still primarily listen to music, and that's 56 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: my favorite things. Let's jump into you. Scranton, Pennsylvania. Scranton, Pennsylvania, 57 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: small town. I went to college and still in Pennsylvania, Allentown, Pennsylvania, 58 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: so you couldn't get out of the state. What influence 59 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: did that have on you. You and I've talked about 60 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: parents before in the past, and you had some fabulous parents. 61 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: Tell me about how they influenced you. My dad loved music, 62 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: and so growing up in a town like Scranton, let's 63 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: just say the musical tastes were probably what you might 64 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: expect for that old time ethnicity. But my dad loved jazz, 65 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: and he played Duke Ellington and Earl Hines and Sara 66 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: Vaughan and all this great stuff all the time. And 67 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: he would hang over the you know, the little crappy 68 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: turntable and dropped the needle and have a cigarette. And 69 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: he grabbed me by my school uniform and say, listen 70 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: to this. Take the a train. And I would think 71 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: this is incomprehensible, speaks no sense to me, and I 72 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: have no idea what this is, but he's madly in 73 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: love with it. And so when I finally started bringing 74 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: music home, my music Stones, you know, the Doors, the Beatles, 75 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: he wanted to listen with me, which I did not 76 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: want at all. But when I think about some of 77 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: the things he said, he thought, dare I say the 78 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:38,359 Speaker 1: Beatles were pop crap and that the Stones were blues, 79 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: you know, and that Charlie Watts was a big band 80 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: drumm right, it was a way to have a relationship 81 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: with him. I remember thinking later he had a passion 82 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: that was separate from family and work, and I really 83 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 1: wanted that for myself. What really motivated me, though, was 84 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: I had a sense from reading like Crawdaddy and Rolling 85 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,799 Speaker 1: Stone and listening to music that there was a tribe 86 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: of people somewhere that were my tribe and I couldn't 87 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: find them where I was, and if I could find them, 88 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: and if I could have a part of anything they 89 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: were doing, I would be all in. And to me, 90 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 1: that was like the dream was in New York City, 91 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: which my parents, friends and neighbors felt like I was 92 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: moving to Moscow or Brussels or someplace. It seemed like 93 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: New York City, it's impossible. You can't do that. No 94 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: one does that. So it sounds like you didn't have 95 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: family connections, So how on earth did you get the 96 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,359 Speaker 1: Conde Nast. My mother was like definitely a feminist before 97 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: her time, and it was like, go go go, you 98 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: can do what you can do it. When I came 99 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: to New York, I thought I cannot walk into Conde Nast. 100 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: I look like I just fell off the cold truck. 101 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: I mean, this is I don't have the nerve, and 102 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 1: she's like, go in there, do it. You know something 103 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 1: will happen if it doesn't. Try again. She was one 104 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: of these people who always said perseverance is an underrated virtue, 105 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: and I think she was right about that. Interestingly, I 106 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: did not have of a Double Wares product experience in 107 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: Conde Nest at all. I think I did a little 108 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: bit of research, and I was a big magazine fan 109 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:10,359 Speaker 1: before I get to Rolling Stone my ultimate goal. I 110 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: wonder if I could possibly get in the door of 111 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: one of these magazines. Is there anyway? So I made 112 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: this dummy magazine. I went in and I went into personnel, 113 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: as they called it in those days, and this very 114 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: nice older woman really did not want to deal with me. 115 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 1: And she said, well, there's a copy test for a 116 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: magazine called Mademoiselle that you can take. And I said, 117 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: would you mind telling me what the compensation is since 118 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 1: I just literally got off the bus and she said, 119 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: dere if you need to ask that question, you can't 120 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: afford to work here. I went home, I took the 121 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: copy test, I passed, and I walked through the doors 122 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: and thought, wow, you could literally tell who worked at 123 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: which magazine by what they were wearing, eating, saying, drinking 124 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: and where they were clubbing. And you could pick all 125 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 1: that up just from the lobby. So Mademoiselle, which is 126 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: no more. I was kind of the smart Girl magazine 127 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: at the time. You know, fran Leebowitz was a columnist, 128 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 1: and some of the early sort of the pre Martha 129 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: Steward people, Mary and Relaying, and there were just tons 130 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,239 Speaker 1: of people there. I made some of the best friends 131 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: in my life there who eventually led me to You 132 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: and MTV. And I got in there and I just 133 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: would stay up till four in the morning writing and 134 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: rewriting these ridiculous things like women who love men who 135 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: hate women and why and models, party tips and whatever 136 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: it was. I just gave it my all. I was 137 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: so thrilled to be there, and I think I sucked 138 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: up everything. And what I also observed was brand. I mean, 139 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: those magazines have very clearly defined brands, and they do 140 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: not veer off that path. Alexander Lieberman would come in 141 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: and look at a display and say, that's not bog 142 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: that's not Glamour, that's not mademoiselle, and he would be right. 143 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: And it was that thing of learning about what is 144 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: it that makes this thing important to somebody? What is 145 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: that defines this versus everything else. You have a story 146 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: about one of the editors that you said you wrote 147 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: something and basically she said, yes, that won't do. That's 148 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 1: one of my favorite stories that you've ever told. Well, 149 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: I had a wonderful editor, Karen Andrew. I get Mademoiselle. 150 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: I killed myself writing something and she called me in 151 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: and she said this is really not good. And I 152 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: was devastated. I mean, I thought, oh my god, I've 153 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: spent my whole life trying to get a foot in 154 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: this door. And then she said, you know, I think 155 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: you can do this, but this is really it. So 156 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,319 Speaker 1: I'm going to show you how to construct something good, 157 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: and I'm going to give you one chance to go 158 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 1: back and do that, and then we'll take a look 159 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: and if it's not good, we're going to have a 160 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: very different conversation. So here's what a headline is, Here's 161 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: what a grabby is, Here's what you know. The middle 162 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: of the story is supposed to be. Tell him what 163 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: you're gonna tell him, bla bla bla blah. So I 164 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: went back. I thought out her very clear, very architectural, 165 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 1: if you will, feedback, and also the fact that she said, 166 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: I think you can do this, but I'm not sure, 167 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: and um, when I turned it in the rewrites, I 168 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: didn't hear from her. And then she came out and said, 169 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: it's it's really good. It's very good. You got it. Wow. 170 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 1: You know, Harvard Business Review just had a story which 171 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 1: we sent around in the office about innovation and company 172 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: culture and how you innovate. I thought of the story 173 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: actually which I brought it up, and one of the 174 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: things that pointed out is said that actually candor works, 175 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 1: not niceness. She was very direct, and you know, it 176 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: was the best favor someone can do for you is 177 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: to tell you the truth. It felt like a real jolt. 178 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: In contrast, I worked at Glamor for a while, which 179 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: was a great magazine. I worked for an editor who 180 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: would you turn something in, she would rewrite it, all 181 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: over it and send it out to you via assistant, 182 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: demoralizing learned nothing. Start to think like, why don't you 183 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 1: just right it yourself, you know, like a Braddy twenty 184 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: something would. But you know, the candor, the directness. I 185 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,079 Speaker 1: appreciate it. You've always been a great coach, and you've 186 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: been thought of as a great coach, especially for creative people. 187 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:17,599 Speaker 1: Did it come from this and did you take that 188 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: lesson with you? I think I definitely took that lesson 189 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: with me. I don't think I'm quite as candid as 190 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: Karen was. But a creative person does need guardrails and 191 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: does like some sort of directional feedback. They don't just 192 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: want to rubber stamp, even if they think they do. 193 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: I thought about a few things. I mean, the beauty 194 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: and the wonder of MTV was that it was really 195 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: filled with people that I thought could not find gainful 196 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: employment anywhere else. It would be somebody who had never 197 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: really shot anything and just wanted to get their hands 198 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: on a came and try it. And we were willing 199 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: to do that, but we were willing to do it 200 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: against a set of promises we were making to the fans, 201 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: to the audience, to the viewers, to the consumers, to 202 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: the users. So I would say absolutely, but remember, don't 203 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: fall in love with your own idea. This is about 204 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: someone else, not you. This is about the person on 205 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: the other side. Who are they? Who are you? Trying 206 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 1: to communicate with what's different about them today than yesterday. 207 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: They're like you, but you can't make this just for you. 208 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: And there are really no other rules aside from you know, 209 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 1: no full frontal nudity. Go out there and do it. 210 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 1: And it was so much fun to have the freedom 211 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: to meet people who were far more creative than I was. 212 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: I began to see I was sort of a better 213 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: editor coach than I was a player. So many great 214 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: people got opportunity through that company, Quirky people like Marcy Braffman, 215 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: who was there when I got there, people like John 216 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: Sykes who could step out there and ask anybody to 217 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: do anything, you know, and just make you want to 218 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: join the party. And you know Ted Demi and Mark 219 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: Palings and all these great people coming in. Fred Cybert 220 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: here sorry, he was the person who invented the graphic 221 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: look of MTV. He came from radio. He was the 222 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: promotion director to a radio station and he was in 223 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 1: charge of the visual well exactly. And I think we 224 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 1: were so snotty that I remember thinking like, I don't 225 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,719 Speaker 1: want to hire anybody who worked at an advertising agency 226 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: or a television network or magazine. I mean, when I 227 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: joined I didn't know anything about television. I didn't even 228 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: like it. My interview was with Fred, who said, so 229 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:34,959 Speaker 1: what kind of music do you like? And I think 230 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,719 Speaker 1: I said Bruce Springsteen. I'm not sure. He said, well, 231 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 1: you're wrong, and I'll tell you why. And then about 232 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: forty five minutes later, I left, not having said anything else. 233 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: And the next thing I know, they were like, well, 234 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: you know, look, this is just a few of us 235 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: were trying to get this thing going. If you'd like 236 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,559 Speaker 1: to join, And it was kind of like, how fast 237 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: can I get out the door of Conde nas and 238 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: jump on this thing? Whatever it is? So how did 239 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: you get over? I had some friends who came to 240 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,439 Speaker 1: work for you. They said, well, they're starting this thing. 241 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: It's going to be music on television and it's I 242 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: don't even know what it is. It's three minute clips. 243 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: And when I think about it now, I I had 244 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: another kinde Nast moment that was also instructive. So many 245 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: people at Conde Nast were opposed to it. It was 246 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: like I was telling them I was joining the circus 247 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: or something. If I had said I was, if I said, well, 248 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be Diane Sawyer's p a or something like that. 249 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: I think they would have felt they were like cable 250 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: television music video clips. If you stayed here for twenty 251 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 1: five years, you could be managing editor. I think I'm 252 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: not even thinking about that. So I thought, well, if 253 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: this many people think it's a bad idea, I'm definitely 254 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: gonna do it. I mean, it has to be a 255 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: good idea, you know. I've just found the camaraderie and 256 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: the purpose and the sheer invention of something that didn't exist, 257 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: so irresistible. And again on the math side of it, 258 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: I was saying, I mean this with all sincerity. You 259 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 1: had a map in the creative group. You had a plan, 260 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: and the plan were promises, and I loved that. I 261 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: am making a promise to you. If you sit here, 262 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to deliver something that you've been waiting for. 263 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: It is the first music television network. It is exactly 264 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: for you. And I thought, wow, I want my m 265 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: t V. It's not distributing in Manhattan. I have no 266 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: idea what it is, but those are powerful words. My 267 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:38,119 Speaker 1: in it in an era before social media and social engagement. 268 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: Something for me that felt like mine and want what 269 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: a powerful word, right? I want my MTV. I took 270 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: that very seriously. I took those promises to heart. Twenty 271 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: four hours a day terrific in stereo, Not really, but 272 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: you know, hey, it's mart It sounded for those ten 273 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: people who did have there. I remember you saying to me, 274 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: we wanted people to think it sounds better than regular television, 275 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: and they did. It just felt to me like if 276 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: I could marry all the things I'm interested in with 277 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: these set of principles and join this crazy band of 278 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: people who have no right and a lot of audacity 279 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: in a firm belief that this can work, I mean, 280 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: what a gift. I never looked back, not one second. 281 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: You know, we used to say back then that all 282 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: of us were doing jobs we had never done before. Yes, 283 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: so we didn't really know what we weren't supposed to do. 284 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: I saw some interview a year or so ago with 285 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg, and the essence of it was he didn't 286 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: value experience at all. He valued vision, smarts, etcetera. And 287 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: and I thought about it actually said, you know, in 288 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: those days, we were the twenty something crowd. You and 289 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: I are the same age, not twenty something anymore, unfortunately, 290 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: but we didn't value experience. A matter of fact, people 291 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 1: had experience. We thought that was some excuse for them 292 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: trying to be relevant, and it was a negative. Well, 293 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: now we're at this age where we are full of 294 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: experience and maybe not the share creativity who once had. 295 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: Do you think experience has a role that we didn't 296 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: appreciate when we were in our twenties. It's hard to 297 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: answer that question without stepping outside yourself. You know, as 298 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: I said, like you, I never wanted to be away 299 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: from young adult culture. And even if I felt like 300 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: a vampire at times, I thought, you know, I need 301 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: to be near this. And as I've spent time around 302 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: subsequent generations from hours, I thought, oh my god, they 303 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: are so much more equipped than we were two change 304 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: the world. I mean, there's so many more tools, there's 305 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,359 Speaker 1: so much data that we never had. There's so many 306 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: wonderful things about who they are. And at the same time, 307 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: there's some things about our unconventional experience. I mean, let's 308 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: face it, we're experienced, but we're not exactly you know, 309 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: we didn't work at IBM. We didn't work at IBM. 310 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I can still have nieces and 311 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 1: nephews who look at me, and they're like, you know 312 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 1: who post malone is. They assume I do, and I do, 313 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 1: but do my friends? Now? You know, we had such 314 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: a great period of being able to be young and 315 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: inexperienced and devoted and into it before I feel like 316 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 1: I'm looking at some of these smaller companies they start 317 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 1: building corporate over structures. And I was just talking to 318 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: a group. I said, so, what's your like mission, what's 319 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: your vision? And they said mobile first, and I thought, okay, 320 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: I mean yes, but what isn't really that doesn't make 321 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: me want to get up in the morning and everything 322 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: is that to me? It's like, yes, but what is 323 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 1: it about you? What do you know about that person 324 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 1: who's going to share what you do today or listen 325 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,959 Speaker 1: or care or what is it about you? I started 326 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: to think that my style was out of style or 327 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 1: your style, you know that creatively, lad anything was out 328 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: of style. That it was really only about left brain, 329 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: It was only about math for a minute. But the 330 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,720 Speaker 1: truth is now you can have an incredible marriage of both, 331 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: even more than we were able to. And let's face it, 332 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: one of the things that I admired and valued and 333 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: MTV was research. But it wasn't focus groups. It was 334 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: what's going on in your life that influences you and 335 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: makes you who you are and determines what you like. 336 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: It was like qualitative research, right. It's as much data 337 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 1: as we could get about who loves MTV, who might 338 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 1: like it, who could love it some more. So that 339 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: was important. That was very important. But it's not the 340 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: only thing, and it can't be the dominant thing. You know. 341 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: We did do a concept test of MTV, if you remember, 342 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 1: the board of directors did not want to do this idea. 343 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: So I had this idea that we would get a 344 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,120 Speaker 1: polster to do a concept test, and it came back 345 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: really great, like I like that, I'd listen to that 346 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: or watch that channel, And we used that in the 347 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 1: board presentation and finally the board didn't say yes. Steve 348 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: were also around Warners and Jim Robinson run American Express 349 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: had to getting room and say yes. But I do 350 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: think that little bit of research made them feel better 351 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: than a bunch of twenty year old saying, hey, we 352 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 1: got a great idea here, let us at it. Someone 353 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:21,160 Speaker 1: was talking to me about the incredible data Netflix and 354 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: the fact that they used data for casting and everything else. 355 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: And I said, yes, I think that is fantastic. I 356 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: wish I had had it. It's incredible. But I still 357 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,239 Speaker 1: believe there's somebody at Netflix who read a script from 358 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: the Duffer Brothers for Stranger Things. They stuck their finger 359 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: up and read the Zeitgeist and said, there's some Spielbergie 360 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: in nineties kind of retro thing going on. They hit 361 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 1: pay dirt with Millie Bobby Brown, they brought one ow 362 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: a rider back. They mixed up the stew of things, 363 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: and the data alone will not lead you to that. 364 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: So you need some people in the mix who can 365 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: also just read tea leaves and take a chance. We're 366 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 1: all looking for things that connect and work and hit, 367 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,199 Speaker 1: and most of them don't. But that part of it 368 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 1: is I think essential in the mix too. Well. I 369 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 1: think that's sort of the hard of You know me, 370 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 1: I've used math and magic since I was in my twenties. 371 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: That the research tells us what the people are like, 372 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,479 Speaker 1: where they're living, what their attitudes are, president tell us 373 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 1: what to do to excite them. Research is not policy making, 374 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,159 Speaker 1: and I think we shared that way back when it's okay, 375 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 1: Now I got a picture for these I got a 376 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: great idea. Let's do the last weekend with Van Halen. 377 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: Let's paint that house paint and get John Mellencamp to 378 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 1: to you know, give it away. Um. And I remember 379 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: listening to one of the writers sitting there one day saying, 380 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 1: I hate my miserable life. And we made it a contest. 381 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 1: If you hate your miserable life, sign up here, sign 382 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 1: up here, and we'll change it. Just hold on a second, 383 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 1: because we've got so much more to talk talk about. 384 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: We'll be back after a quick break. Welcome back to 385 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 1: Mathew Magic. We're here with Judy McGrath. We were talking 386 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:17,400 Speaker 1: about creatives running companies. You're one of the few creatives 387 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,360 Speaker 1: that ran a very big company. How do you think 388 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 1: a company differs when a creative runs the company than 389 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,159 Speaker 1: one of the business people run the company, or the 390 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: lawyer or the accountant or the salesperson. You know. I 391 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: was stuck in a flight once with Jerry Laybourne, who 392 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: you know. The Queen Mother thought us genius Bickelodeon and 393 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: she said, you know, Judy, you will never really be 394 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 1: terrific at this until you learn to look at business 395 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 1: as creatively as you look at creative And I really 396 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 1: thought about that, you know, and I set out to 397 00:21:54,600 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 1: learn how to love a piano. The business people in 398 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: all of our companies are not typical business people either. 399 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: You know, there's creative thinking and everything. I really do 400 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: believe that I'm not one of those people that thinks 401 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:14,360 Speaker 1: of creativities for the precious few. But as I grew 402 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: up through the ranks and I left just managing all 403 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:22,199 Speaker 1: those wonderful, incredible creative people that I loved, and I 404 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,479 Speaker 1: started to learn to fall in love with Comedy Central 405 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,199 Speaker 1: and Nickelodeon, and you know, I got the chance to 406 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 1: help create a safe and wonderful place for Jon Stewart 407 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: and you know, Dave Chappelle and John Oliver and Colbert 408 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,439 Speaker 1: and all those great people. I started to think like 409 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 1: my job now is to sort of protect and defend 410 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: the ability to create and innovate and take chances on people. 411 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: The business has to be sound, you know, the business 412 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: has to work. And I also always believed in know 413 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: your audience. So if I'm speaking to someone who's going 414 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: to be making a business decision, I need to be 415 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: able to speak to them in their language and not 416 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: in any way that sort of undermines or undercuts or 417 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: makes it sound like I don't understand what they need 418 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: to do as well. So I really came to wake 419 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: up one day and realize I really enjoy being the 420 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: business leader this company. Now too, were seduced. Yeah, we 421 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 1: were seduced. We were seduced. Although I did have a 422 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: funny moment. I remember saying to somebody, you know, God, 423 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 1: we really should get on the train and go to 424 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: Philadelphia and like sit down with Briant and say thank you. 425 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 1: And they were like, what, I'm not going to Philadelphia 426 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,719 Speaker 1: and getting on a train and doing a sort of 427 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: like no, you're missing the point though. I mean they're 428 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 1: in this with us, right, you know, and they're funding us, 429 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: They're part of the mix. I value his view. I've 430 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: been around him, I've seen it. So I started to 431 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: see the creativity and value in the joy and trying 432 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 1: to figure out a business and make a business work. 433 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: Obviously is going through some heavy hard times. What isn't 434 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: it's battered around, it's crazy as ever. Thus, but I 435 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: think everybody who works someplace feels good when the business 436 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 1: is working. So you're trying to get shows on the area, 437 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 1: You're trying to make programming changes, you know, the tension. 438 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,360 Speaker 1: You've got a seller sales head that says we need 439 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: this kind of programming because that's what advertisers want, or 440 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: somebody says I've got this great show and the sales 441 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: head goes, that's terrible. No one wants that. What do 442 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: you do? I ran into this frequently, like, you know, 443 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,199 Speaker 1: we can't sell south Park like guys, guys, you're not 444 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: selling south Park. You're selling like young men and young 445 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 1: women and a cultural phenomenon. They love this. They flocked 446 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: to it. They it is the perfect commentary on the 447 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: times we live and it's so genius. You would be 448 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 1: so lucky to be near this. It's not about what 449 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: you're going to be afraid of in south Park. It's 450 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 1: going to be like, you want to talk to the 451 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: people who love south Park. I know you do, and 452 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,400 Speaker 1: we've got them, and we love south Park. We'll love 453 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 1: it for you, but I can convince you that this 454 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: is exactly where you want to be, you know. And 455 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: at the same time, when Jon Stewart was really rolling 456 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: and every now and then somebody would say, oh God, 457 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: does he have to talk to the Iranian physicists talking 458 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: about nuclear I'm like, leave him alone, let him talk 459 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 1: to whomever he wants to talk to. He's curating this show. 460 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 1: We're on a journey with him. I don't need another 461 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,439 Speaker 1: person to talk to the celebrity of the day. You know, 462 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: there's lots of that defend the talent and help the 463 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 1: sales organization or the clients see that what you really 464 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: want is a relationship with the fan. And the fan 465 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: is coming in through this door, and you want to 466 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: be near that door. You don't want to shut that door. 467 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: And how often did you have to go meet with client? 468 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: I did a lot of that. But you know the 469 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: problem with taking me on a client it was, you know, 470 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: there were a multitude of issues. Sometimes, I mean there 471 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 1: was I only to travel, which is ridiculous. I missed 472 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: so much. Just a great, great guy. And he invited 473 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 1: me to lunch with a client for taco bell and 474 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 1: during the lunch I said, you know, I'm really curious, 475 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 1: like what's your Facebook strategy? And he kicked me so 476 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 1: hard under the table. I thought I was never gonna 477 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: walk again, because in his view, he didn't want to 478 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: acknowledge there was anything else. I mean, like, oh my god, 479 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: this is about selling empty And she said, you know, 480 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,920 Speaker 1: I still believe I sell more tacos to people who 481 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: were watching like Comedy Central and MTV. But I'll tell 482 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 1: you what I'm thinking about Facebook, And I thought, well, 483 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,160 Speaker 1: this is like, this is acknowledging. I know that. You know, 484 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 1: there's lots of other things in the world. We're all 485 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 1: in the same media business. What are you thinking? What 486 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: are you doing? So, depending on the client, I would 487 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: be either a good date for the uh, you know, 488 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: the lunch for the nightmare date. They'd say, wow, you 489 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: did a great sale for Facebook. Thank you. We won't 490 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: need to see you yet, so let me jump a 491 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: little bit. You're a role model for a lot of people, 492 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,359 Speaker 1: especially creatives always, but you've been a great role model 493 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: for women. If you think about it, in the days 494 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 1: of MTV, we're probably looking back at an extraordinary number 495 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: of women very important roles. Today would be crowing about it. Probably, 496 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: you know, whether you like it or not. You have 497 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: been mentoring people, You've been setting an example. How do 498 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 1: you handle that responsibility? What do you do consciously about that? 499 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: You know, I can remember some things that just felt 500 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: like personal milestones to me. I remember when year sitting, 501 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: you know, one of the great fun things I got 502 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 1: to do would be hang out in the rehearsals for 503 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: the Video Music Awards, And I was sitting there and 504 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 1: I was thinking, Wow, you know, we've got a female director, 505 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 1: we have a female on stage managing the crew. We 506 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: have a young woman who's the head writer. We have 507 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: a young woman in charge of seating and events. But 508 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,919 Speaker 1: you've got women in roles that were not traditionally women's roles. 509 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: They were just really good. And I do think it's 510 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 1: incumbent on somebody who gets an opportunity, like I got 511 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 1: to look out for underrepresented people in general. And so 512 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: you know, when Beth McCarthy Miller raised her hand, was 513 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: an easy like, let's let Beth direct, come on, like, 514 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: she can do it. We know she can do it. 515 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,439 Speaker 1: Everybody knows she can do it. And I looked around 516 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,679 Speaker 1: and thought, wow, this whole thing is kind of really 517 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: looking very different than most of the other sets that 518 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 1: I've been on. And you know, I always felt like 519 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: I worked with men who are not like typical and 520 00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: young employees who are not typical. So how ridiculous would 521 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: it be to take a typical approach to anything else? 522 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: We were up ending tradition all the time and not 523 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: just for the sake of doing it, but because you 524 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: get give somebody a chance, they'll knock themselves out to 525 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: show you that they could really do it. And we 526 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: actually talked about it back then. We said, you know, 527 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: if somebody has done three or four things and they're 528 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: not great, we have empirical evidence they won't be great. 529 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: But if we give somebody a shot who's never done it, 530 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: they could be the next Steven Spielberg exactly. And only 531 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: we're gonna find out is to take a shot. And 532 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: you continue to do that through your career. I'm most 533 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: drawn to it. It's what happened to me, and I 534 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: still feel it. At lunch with a kid yesterday, I thought, 535 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: oh my god, I would hire this kid tomorrow. He's 536 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: been teaching a knife throwing class, but we might be 537 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: doing improv. But it was it was like, he wants 538 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 1: to be an agent or something. I'm like, why not? 539 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: Of course? You know. So now they were not twenty 540 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: something and you've got experience under your belt. What are 541 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,479 Speaker 1: the two things that you wish someone had told you 542 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: about getting old? God, Well, let's see, in spite of 543 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 1: how old you may be, if your heart and soul 544 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: are young, and youthful, don't shy away from it, and 545 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: at the same time own your experience and find a 546 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: way to share it when asked or even when not. 547 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: Sitting next to young guy who's running a company and 548 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: he was looking at a piece of piece of media 549 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: and he said, that's boring, that was it, And I 550 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: watched the kid who had showed it to him look deflated. 551 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: So I said, you know, that's not really actionable advice 552 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: my first editor who said this is what a headline is, 553 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: you could say, you know, it drags in the middle, 554 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: Like if I were you, I would move this piece 555 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: to the back. You could try that, or you take 556 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: it and go back and think about where do you 557 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: think it's slow and then come back and show me. 558 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: But this quick kind of like just dismissive is not 559 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: going to get you really where you want to go, 560 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: and he's just going to think you're a jerk, and 561 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: I give up. Okay, so let's jump too. You've always 562 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: done good. Rock the vote jus er lose aids awareness. 563 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 1: How did you think about that inside of a company 564 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: and how do you think of it for you as 565 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: a as a person. Well, you know, inside MTV it 566 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: was very interesting. I once heard Tina Fey say something 567 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: about it was a panel where a bunch of women 568 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: were sort of congratulating each other for different things, and 569 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: someone said they were lucky, and a bunch of other 570 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: women jumped on her and said, oh my god. Women 571 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: always say they're lucky. Men never say they're lucky. You 572 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: made your own luck. And Tina was actually very thoughtful 573 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: about it, and she said, I think timing plays a 574 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: role in something as well as luck and talent. So 575 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: when we decided to get into you know, and certainly 576 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:47,080 Speaker 1: rock the Vote was not our idea politics Jeff air off. 577 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 1: So Jeff was very passionate about this, and it's sort 578 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: of grewn to rock the Vote. And I remember talking 579 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,880 Speaker 1: to Tom Freston, with whom I had an extraordinarily great 580 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: creative relationship, and this was one of the rare our 581 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 1: instances where we had a blowout. Really we really didn't agree, 582 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: but I listened to what he said. He said, this 583 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: is a terrible idea. It's not gonna work. This is 584 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:16,239 Speaker 1: an entertainment brand. Nobody cares about this. We're gonna get 585 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: laughed out of town. We do not have permission to 586 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: do this. There's nothing about us that says we should 587 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: be stepping anywhere near an election or voting or any this. 588 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: So I went back and I thought about it a 589 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: little bit, and I thought, Okay, this is where I 590 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: come into the picture. I think I grew up in 591 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: an era where I thought music. One of the many 592 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: things I loved about music was it's social commentary, and 593 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: it is about the times we live in, and it 594 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: is about everything, and it's about all the things that 595 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: affect you in a very deep way. And I thought, 596 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,080 Speaker 1: I think there's a way to do this where it 597 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: will be engaging. This was not about telling young people 598 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: you need to vote. That's not the way I looked 599 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 1: at it at all. It was saying, to people who 600 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 1: make big decisions in this country, this is a generation 601 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: that is disengaged from you, and you need to address 602 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: them on their turf, their way, and we'll invite you 603 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: to do that. That's your shot. It wasn't about trying 604 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: to be parental or any of that kind of stuff 605 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: to them, or give them boring facts or anything like that. 606 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: And so we got as smart as we could get, 607 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: and I think I didn't tell anybody. That's another thing 608 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: I sent Tabitha store, and Tabitha went to New Hampshire 609 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: and she called me at like midnight she said, you know, 610 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: I got up here in like a bunch of candidates 611 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: are like, what's MTV? And she said, and then a 612 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: couple of them like got back off the bus, primarily 613 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: Bill Clinton, and said I'll talk to you. And then 614 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: we were sort of off and running. And you know 615 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: that partnered with incredible creative work on those rock the 616 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: Vote spots, I mean Madonna wrapped in a flag, and 617 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: then fast forward to you know, we're gonna throw an 618 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: inaugural ball that's not official and see if anybody comes 619 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: to the party, and our em is gonna play and 620 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 1: and Vogue's gonna play. We try. I had to make 621 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: it as spirited as MTV, but add a little bit 622 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: of gravitas, if you will, and meaning you know, like 623 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: you do matter. You are young, but you matter, and 624 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: you deserve to be heard and listen to and we're 625 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,360 Speaker 1: going to help you. Well, it's still held up is 626 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: the example of the best way to do it. So 627 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: he did did a great job with it, Judy, and 628 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: it was fun. It was great. Well it shows too. 629 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: So let me jump to CEO MTV Networks board member Amazon, 630 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: how do you contrast and compare those two roles. To 631 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: have it front row seat at two phenomena in your 632 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: lifetime is incredible, So I would start there. But UM 633 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: board members are not operators, and that's a hard thing 634 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,399 Speaker 1: to learn, you know. The tendency to want to lean 635 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 1: in and get it in is very real. You're supposed 636 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 1: to take the long view all the time. And one 637 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 1: of the things I love about Amazon, which is very 638 00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: much like we were, is that they are, as we 639 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:06,800 Speaker 1: all know, relentlessly customer focused. And they have a list 640 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,719 Speaker 1: of tenants and principles and they live by them and 641 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,239 Speaker 1: it is customer, customer, customer. And another one I like 642 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: is day one. They want you to feel like this 643 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 1: is the first day. This is a new idea. What 644 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 1: can we do today? It's different than what we did yesterday? 645 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: Hence ALEXA, you know. So I find their spirit of 646 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:33,839 Speaker 1: what can we invent is a major part of their 647 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: DNA and it moves fast. So in that regard I 648 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 1: relate very much to it. I think I'm the sort 649 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: of media person among the my colleagues. It's a very 650 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 1: small board. It's run in some unique ways. Sometimes it's 651 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 1: read this book and we're all going to discuss it 652 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 1: and see how this doesn't happen here. Two. You know, 653 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,839 Speaker 1: everything they do they write as a paper that you 654 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: have to think about, and when you get there to 655 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,839 Speaker 1: no power point, it's like, okay, any questions, let's get 656 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 1: into it. So it's a culture that is familiar to 657 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 1: me from the media business, which is like, let's get 658 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,320 Speaker 1: into it already, let's talk about it. Let's like figure 659 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 1: out what it is and at the same time take 660 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,879 Speaker 1: the long view, you know, think about the customer. There's 661 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 1: an incredible guy in the world who I love really 662 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 1: very much who runs the Cornell Tech Center. So he's 663 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,399 Speaker 1: immersed steeped you knows everything about this kind of thing, 664 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: and he's trying to put humanities in tech together and 665 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: talk about ethics in one meeting. So I sometimes feel 666 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,080 Speaker 1: like I'm speaking from a different Alexa than the rest 667 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 1: of the room. He said, you know, I really agree 668 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 1: with Judy and one thing value of talent scientists, technologists 669 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,839 Speaker 1: adventures or talent, and they want to know that you 670 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 1: are hearing their idea and you like their idea, and 671 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: you're going to help them nurture and foster the idea. 672 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: So as much as talent attraction to me was everything 673 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,719 Speaker 1: coming up through MTV and Comedy Central Nickelodeon, talent is 674 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,399 Speaker 1: everything there as well. You know, it's like you want 675 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: the best people, and those people need to think that 676 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:19,359 Speaker 1: you understand them as talent. They're really no different at 677 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 1: the end of the day than the original VJs. You know, 678 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: our talent or the musicians who absolutely, incredibly, crazily love 679 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 1: what they're doing. They need to know that you understand 680 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,359 Speaker 1: that you value it. And I think that's very much 681 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,839 Speaker 1: a part of why, in spite of whatever you want 682 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,840 Speaker 1: to think or debate about it, Amazon continues to just flourish, 683 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 1: constant invention, reinvention, focus on the best talent, focus on 684 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: the best ideas, make it easy for them to do it, 685 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: give them what they need to do it. I'm not 686 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:57,440 Speaker 1: afraid to make mistakes. No, absolutely not. In fact, essential 687 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: I think we weren't either. There were so many. I 688 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: mean they even make lists of stuff that didn't work, 689 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 1: and they say, hey, you know, it's okay, we'll move 690 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,400 Speaker 1: that team over here and try something else. The worst 691 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 1: thing is to not try. So jumping off point ALEXA 692 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:17,879 Speaker 1: Smart Speakers audio podcast sort of the new audio renaissance. 693 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: What do you think about it? It was another one 694 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 1: of those things. Dare I say, like MTV when you 695 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: think like, oh my god, Yeah, that's what I was 696 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 1: waiting for. You know, someone who can play music for 697 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:31,799 Speaker 1: me and give me the weather and the news, and 698 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,160 Speaker 1: is a voice and can talk to me. I think 699 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 1: it takes into account a lot of the things we've 700 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: been talking about. What makes somebody's life easier, what makes 701 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,680 Speaker 1: it more fun, what helps connect you to the stuff 702 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 1: you want? Goes back to the most basic thing radio, 703 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: the sound of a voice in the wilderness. That is 704 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 1: the most human connection. So I think all those smart 705 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 1: devices are really tapping some basic human needs. We'll take 706 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: our appreciation back to Amazon. Everyone in the audio thinks 707 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 1: Amazon has been a game changer for us. It's the 708 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,919 Speaker 1: new clock radio of households. Used to have a clock radio. 709 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:17,240 Speaker 1: Now it's but who cares? Now there's Amazon, Now there's Alexa. 710 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,719 Speaker 1: We've got to the clock radio back. We talked about countrarians, 711 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 1: we talked about outsiders, and we were early outsiders. I 712 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 1: think the whole MTV crew was. But today it seems 713 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 1: like with all the startups, everybody's an outsider. So hard 714 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,280 Speaker 1: to find the insiders. If you want to be an insider, 715 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:36,040 Speaker 1: how the hell do you get those skills? Where do 716 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:40,920 Speaker 1: you go? The beauty of media today, whether it's a 717 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 1: podcast or Ted Talk or whatever. You can dial up 718 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,360 Speaker 1: and teach yourself how to do photoshop, or listen to 719 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:53,279 Speaker 1: Warren Buffett, or go international and find someone who might 720 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,800 Speaker 1: have some wisdom that comes from something completely different that 721 00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,720 Speaker 1: can inform your thinking. It's almost your respon. That's ability 722 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 1: you can say, I'm not just gonna listen to slow Burn. 723 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,840 Speaker 1: I'm going to try something completely different and see what 724 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:10,680 Speaker 1: I take out of that, and it can help inform 725 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,800 Speaker 1: your idea and make it more likely to succeed, I 726 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:18,320 Speaker 1: would say. And yet I still find that I loved 727 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,480 Speaker 1: the era of magazine writers who I thought really knew 728 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 1: something I didn't know and could tell me a story 729 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 1: in a way that I couldn't tell it. And I 730 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,239 Speaker 1: still search for those voices and those people, and I 731 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: think there are lots of them out there. So I 732 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,239 Speaker 1: think you have to search out your own contrarians. So 733 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:39,880 Speaker 1: let me jump one more place. We're in a world 734 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:45,399 Speaker 1: of this incredibly fragmented information, entertainment, everything for everybody. We 735 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,799 Speaker 1: ever build another cable network. Is there any audience out 736 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,560 Speaker 1: there that's unserved anybody looking for a linear TV channel? 737 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: You know, that is really one of the That is 738 00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 1: one of the questions, seems to me. When you can 739 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:04,759 Speaker 1: have every thing, you start to want something's curated for you. 740 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:09,480 Speaker 1: There's a reason why rap caviare hit everybody like a lightning. 741 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,400 Speaker 1: You know what I mean when you think about radio 742 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,440 Speaker 1: has been around forever. When you first said I heart radio, 743 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,120 Speaker 1: I was thinking, like I heart radio, and then I 744 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: started to think about like I do love radio. I 745 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 1: do heart radio. You know, I would someone to help 746 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,400 Speaker 1: me find my way through all of this stuff. I 747 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 1: still believe there's a rule for somebody to curate for 748 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 1: me this massive sea of choice and help me navigate, 749 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 1: while I also have the freedom to discover on my own. 750 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,799 Speaker 1: So that's why you begin to trust brands, you know, 751 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,040 Speaker 1: Like I trust an event on iHeart Radio. I trust 752 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:52,640 Speaker 1: it's gonna have the zeitgeist in mind. I trust when 753 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:56,759 Speaker 1: I look for something on Netflix or Amazon, prim or 754 00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,840 Speaker 1: Hulu that there's gonna be something in there. They know 755 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: that I like Handmaid's Tale, and they do. They're gonna 756 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 1: find something for me, So is there going to be 757 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,920 Speaker 1: another single point of entry. I mean, look, we grew 758 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,840 Speaker 1: up in an era where everybody was arguing about Vietnam. 759 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 1: Now it's like there's so many different things to debate 760 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,960 Speaker 1: it can be overwhelming. So I still look to the 761 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,440 Speaker 1: curators and I still think there's probably room for an 762 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,480 Speaker 1: idea that none of us have thought of yet, and 763 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,480 Speaker 1: we're all gonna go like, oh my god, why didn't 764 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 1: we think of that? Okay, so we're gonna end it 765 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:31,879 Speaker 1: back on Mathew Magic. Best mathematician, You know, I would 766 00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,280 Speaker 1: say my friend Dan who started the Corneal Tech Center. 767 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 1: Best magician, you know, not counting you, you know, I 768 00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 1: still have to give it up to early MTV, you, 769 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:48,719 Speaker 1: Tom Bob, and pretty much any musician as a magician. 770 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:56,279 Speaker 1: Thanks Judy, Thank you Bob always. Here's a couple of 771 00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:59,279 Speaker 1: things I take away from this episode with Judy. It 772 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,200 Speaker 1: might be you to just fix your employees work yourself, 773 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,719 Speaker 1: but if you want them to grow, take the time 774 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,440 Speaker 1: to teach them. It will benefit you down the line. 775 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,360 Speaker 1: When advertisers are skittish of being associated with certain content, 776 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,440 Speaker 1: show them the relationship they want is not with the content, 777 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,960 Speaker 1: but with the fan who likes the content. And finally, 778 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,560 Speaker 1: if you want your business to up end the traditional, 779 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:25,120 Speaker 1: don't hire typical people. Judy is looking at hiring knife throwers. 780 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:42,960 Speaker 1: I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. That's it for today's episode. 781 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,600 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to Math and Magic, a 782 00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. The show is hosted by 783 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,719 Speaker 1: Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sue Schillinger for booking and 784 00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:55,080 Speaker 1: wrangling are Wonderful Talent, which is no small feat. Nikki 785 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,600 Speaker 1: Eatre for pulling research bill plaques, and Michael Asar for 786 00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,359 Speaker 1: their recording help. Are at to Ryan Murdoch and of 787 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,359 Speaker 1: course Gayle Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel Mango and everyone who 788 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,319 Speaker 1: helped bring this show to your ears. Until next time, 789 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:11,960 Speaker 1: m