WEBVTT - Ep. 769: Can Conservation Be Non-Partisan? 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:13.320 This is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.319 bug bitten, and in my case, underware. Listening past, you 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:22.360 can't predict anything brought to you by first Light. When 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:26.600 I'm hunting, I need gear that won't quit. First Light builds, 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:30.160 no compromise, gear that keeps me in the field longer, 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:34.120 no shortcuts, just gear that works. Check it out at 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:37.559 first light dot com. That's f I R S T 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:44.040 l I t E dot com. We're joined today by 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:48.040 Benji Backer of Nature Is Nonpartisan, and we're gonna talk 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:50.800 about can it be? You're just saying it is? 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:52.000 It is? 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:53.120 You just that's the title. 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:56.160 I'm gonna will it to existence, and we're gonna. 0:00:55.960 --> 0:01:00.840 Say, is it how? How can can it be? How 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:06.600 does it become? How does nature become nonpartisan? Meaning wildlife conservation, 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:11.479 wildlands conservation? Can it? Can it rise above. 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:16.360 The vitriol, the culture wars. 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:21.080 In the in the cycles, Yeah, I mean and off again. 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:24.280 It has to. Uh, That's why I created Nature's non parson. 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:26.000 I mean, because you just you're saying it is. 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:29.680 It is because people, Yes, exactly. 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:31.720 We got to get out of our algorithms here and 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:34.920 realize that it actually once was non partisan. Right, you 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:38.680 look at history, the biggest environmental achievements, conservation achievements throughout 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:41.880 history were immensely by partisan non parson. I've spent the 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:43.920 last ten years of my career. I'm twenty seven. So 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:47.080 I started when I was a freshman in college. I 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:50.480 started a nonprofit by freshman year of college, like a 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:54.240 normal freshman does, and went around the country and saw 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:55.640 that people actually wanted a lot. 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:56.120 Of the same things. 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:58.000 They want clean air, they want clean water, they want 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:00.200 wildlife habitat to be concerned. They want to be able 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:01.400 to hunt and fish. They also want to be able 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:03.240 to hike and ski. They just want to be able 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:06.240 to spend time outdoors. And you could be the trumpiest 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:08.160 voter in the world, or you could be an AOC 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:11.840 lover and anything in between, and you want those same things. 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:14.400 And yet that's not reflected in our politics today. So 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:17.200 we have to get this right. So by saying I 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:20.800 could say nature should be nonpartisan, that's a less compelling organization. 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:24.720 There's four four words there instead of three uh ought 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:25.840 to be ought to be. 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:31.200 Un could be The NSBN is not a really compelling acronym. 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:34.040 It's just ESPN two similar too. Similar. 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:36.760 Uh, but yeah, I mean we we feel like it 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:38.600 should be, and so we're going to make sure that 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:39.000 it is. 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:40.000 That's the whole goal. 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:43.800 When we get into this, I want to talk about 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:47.760 some of my favorite little facts that uh the e 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:50.520 p A all the stuff that came in under Nixon, dude. 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:54.360 And not only that, this guy, yeah yeah, and not 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.080 only that, my other little favorite thing. Cal might remember 0:02:57.120 --> 0:03:01.360 the numbers on it when they passed the Wilderness Act. 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:05.880 Wasn't like ninety nine to one in the Senate or 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:08.880 like it was like not that so much. She looked 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.880 that up, Phil, Yeah, I mean it, Phil, that's not something. 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:17.200 Phil's trying to memorize. His line. 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:21.280 I'm also switching cameras, making you look good taking notes. 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:25.280 I can look this up. He's back there a farw. 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:32.320 Thing thrilled when Steve learns another form of English currency. 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:37.280 Phil, you ever hear of a fella named Bob scratch it? Nope, 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:42.880 Bob cratch it yep. I like that. 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:44.040 You didn't play along there. 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:47.200 You showed up in town at the wrong time. If 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:49.160 you just showed up in town months from now, you'd 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:51.760 be like, go see Phil and Christmas, Carol. Oh is 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:56.240 he in it doing Little Dickens. Yeah, right now is it? 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:57.680 He's playing do. 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.240 A couple of the halftime you know what? What what? 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:01.800 Like this this is my name. 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:06.720 It's not technically a one man show, but he makes 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:07.720 it seem as if it is. 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.400 That's he plays all the roles. 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:13.880 Yeah, Like in movies, there's like a big line that 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:17.960 the actor is excited about, Like when you think of 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:22.360 Bob cratch in your role, what line are you like? 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:24.840 What line are you most excited to? 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:33.800 Just he's got a very emphatic yeah here when when 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:37.440 When when Fred is trying to convince convince Scrooge of 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:40.560 the joys of Christmas, I'll be watching for that. 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:42.279 And the only reason I bring it up is because 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:44.279 that's the only line I have memorized so far. 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:48.279 When I went to film some time a couple months 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:50.359 when I went to fill more of a sound effect 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:50.919 than a line. 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:52.920 But go ahead, and Phil's last play. 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.560 He I didn't really know what his role was, and 0:04:57.600 --> 0:04:59.840 I was reading the bill, you know, and and he's 0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:01.120 like all the way at the end of the bill, 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:02.839 and then as the play goes on, I'm like, God, 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:04.880 he's got all the lines, Like he's got all the 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:05.560 laughs he's. 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:05.960 The main kid. 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:10.279 Yeah, and I'm like, I was like growing as I 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.040 realized how central his role was. I was growing more 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:15.599 and more offended at Phil's placement in the bill. And 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:17.680 it wasn't until two days later and I told him 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:20.480 this and they said it was alphabetized. 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:21.160 Filled the engineer. 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:26.320 Yeah, yeah, so he was under tea. But I thought 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:31.040 it was like this Grave Injustice. Uh yeah, I'm excited 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:31.600 for this one. 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:33.719 Thank you. I'll tell you what. It's watched this segu 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:35.800 you know what, you know what? It ain't gonna be 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:40.159 as good ass film, let's hear it. Mm. The Christmas Tour, 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:42.080 Ah should have guessed. 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:44.800 You like that? 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.880 That was good. I don't know they gonna be as 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:48.840 good as the Christmas Tour. 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:49.479 Uh. 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:52.719 Me Eater Live the Christmas Tour coming to the American South. 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:55.960 I wish I had all the cities in front. 0:05:55.760 --> 0:06:00.000 Of Birmingham, Memphis, Nashville. 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.040 I want to do the dates and everything. Got you 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:04.599 how do I find that chack chatting? 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:08.320 You go to the meat eater dot com slash tour. 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:11.560 No, you can see all the day tight tang tight 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:16.600 here it is. We're coming out. We're coming on the road. Uh. 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:20.359 Brent Reeves will be there. He's in for the full tour. 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:26.440 Clay nukeomb there, Doctor Randall will be there. Yanni Full 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:31.919 Tour Special guests at every stop. December seventeenth, They're going 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:37.360 to be in Birmingham, Alabama, at the Lyric. At that event, 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:41.920 I will tell my story about taking a a very 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:47.000 paranoid two days I spent where I took a shotgun apart. 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:51.400 And I was going from on a Greyhound bus from Missoula, Montana, 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:58.360 to Auburn, Alabama to duck Hunt, very nervous about if 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:01.120 they found out I had that gun mhm. And we 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:05.520 went into and I'll tell my story about Birmingham. People 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:10.360 are gonna think they found the gun. They never found it. 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:12.240 Wait and see, wait and see. 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:14.800 But the drama is but yeah, it's just worth it. 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:18.560 At the Lyric December seventeenth, Birmingham, Alabama. At the Lyric 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:26.680 December eighteenth, Nashville, Tennessee Marathon Music Works, December nineteenth. You'll 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:28.560 know if these all are just these are all this 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:34.640 every night fills up here, Scrooge and we're down in 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:41.440 these places. What's that line? Here here here, here, you 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:46.480 got it? December nineteenth. Did I do that yet. Eighteenth, Nashville, 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:52.280 Tennessee at Marathon Music Works. December nineteenth, Memphis, Tennessee, Minglewood Hall. 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:57.040 I've been texting with Will Primos. I believe that Will 0:07:57.120 --> 0:08:00.280 Primos is gonna be He's gonna come to the the 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:03.640 show and he's going to give life advice that's delightful. 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:07.080 That will be the top pieces of life advice from 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:13.800 a man that has earned a position of giving that advice. December. 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:17.960 We've been kicking around a couple of things, like Clay 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.600 wants Brent Reeves to hold a fish fry on stage 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:23.560 every night, but the minute you tell the venue then 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:25.080 they then they're gonna have to be like, well, now 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:27.760 we gotta get a fire marshal. That's hard. You know, 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:29.840 we do the casting contest. We kind of want to 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:33.160 do a blowgun contest, but not tell the venue, yeah, 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:35.080 because then they'll have to get a cop or you know, 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:38.839 you just said it right now so they might get it. 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:40.640 There'll be a fire marshal and the cop. 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:42.520 Wait, we should just find out if the beauty of 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:48.040 our show is there's like zero percent of stage hands 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.280 that listen to it, so except. 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:56.000 Yeah, no one from the venue Oh yeah, Phil's friends. 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:57.880 Do your friends listen just to catch you on the show? 0:08:57.920 --> 0:08:59.120 Phil, definitely not No. 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:06.200 December twenty Fayetteville, Arkansas at Ozark Music Hall, which I 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:11.400 believe is sold out. December twenty one, Dallas, Texas, Texas 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:16.839 Theater December twenty two, and I believe we've got Jesse 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:19.720 Griffis coming out. Hang out with this one too, December 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:22.760 twenty two, Austin, Texas at the Paramount. Tickets are all 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:23.160 in sale. 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:26.960 Now that's a good week night, dude. 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:27.360 I know. 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:29.640 Yeah, you're gonna need to have some Christmas after that. 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:32.679 I'm gonna go see my mam. 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:33.360 Where's she at? 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:34.040 Michigan? 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:37.480 Hey, I'm a Midwestern by myself. What state Wisconsin? 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:37.880 Oh? 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:40.600 Okay, we'll part of two of the three best Midwest 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:42.640 states covered well Partiscani Ohio. 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:44.560 It's also at the table. 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:48.520 Builds kind of similar to Chester. When we said Wisconsin, 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:50.720 I was like, huh. 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:51.560 Do look like Chester? 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:52.160 Little Chester? 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:52.440 Yeah? 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:57.400 Big ches, big Chess I met little Chester. 0:09:57.640 --> 0:09:59.840 You look like a big Chester, like if. 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:04.200 Chess had had better eate his wheaties and better like 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:08.560 pre natal. I don't know, yeah exactly, I'm just thinking 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:12.600 because we had that guy on the Monteeth about deers Mom's. 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.520 Full expression, the full expression of his jeans. 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:17.439 Yeah, I'm gonna take this as a comment. I'm not 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:18.959 quite sure yet, but. 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:21.400 Like everybody here, Love Bodies on Montana say, I look 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:23.800 like a big gesture and I don't know. 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:24.600 What that means. 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:28.400 Uh, near Green Bay es great? Okay, So we're just 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:30.240 we're just like right across the lake. Yeah, I could 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:33.280 have shot. I could have shot over and we used 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:37.400 to cross and we'd land over at exactly God, God 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:39.640 knows his great lakes. Steve. 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:42.480 The Wilderness Act passed seventy three to twelve in the Senate. 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:44.400 But then that's why I like to say ninety nine 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:45.719 to one. 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:50.200 Well sounds it passed the House three seventy four to one. 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:51.959 See that's what you're thinking. 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:55.040 That seems I was combining them. Yeah, it was combining 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:58.280 the legislative bodies in the one and finding a sort 0:10:58.280 --> 0:10:58.840 of average. 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:01.040 The only name being Joe Pool from Texas. And I 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:02.760 can't figure out why I've been looking up, but. 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:08.720 I feel that it might be this is Lower. I 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.040 feel that he didn't feel it went far enough. 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:15.560 Of the spiel. 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:18.800 Yeah, for sure, Lower. Yeah, I've talked about this a 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:20.320 handful of times. I don't know if I have on 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:24.480 the show or not. This is fitting because me and 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:28.559 Randall been working on our The Hide Hunters, Our Meat 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:33.480 Eaters audio original or sorry, Meeter's American History The Hide Hunters, 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:39.400 which tells the story of the begin Okay, let me 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:43.000 back up. Meeter's American History. The Hide Hunters tells the 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:45.320 story of the Buffalo hide Hunters. It covers from eighteen 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:48.440 sixty five, so the year the Civil War ended. We 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:51.280 explained why that's of significance up to eighteen eighty three, 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:58.360 and it tells about the men, the motivations, the skills, 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:04.280 the justifications, the dangers, the dangers, the bloodshed, the untimely 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:08.920 deaths involved in the men who killed the last fifteen 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:13.600 million buffalo off the American Great planes ran that number 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:17.960 from fifteen million down to less than a thousand. In 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:24.120 the US today we have about there's about a half 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:29.480 million in existence. Ninety four percent are privately owned. That 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:31.840 really needs to change. Maybe we'll touch on that that's 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:33.720 a non that should be a non part is an issue, 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:35.680 but even that is partisan. 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.000 Buffalo covering buffalo buffalo and non partisan. 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:43.000 The should be but Recovering Buffalo organization. Recovering the buffalo 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:45.480 is a part is an issue, and it's not fair 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:50.160 because it's one of the few conservation achievements we could 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:53.000 have by not It's like, it's not by doing something, 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.880 it's by not doing something getting out of the way. 0:12:57.320 --> 0:12:59.079 Like a lot of times you're like, oh, that's a 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:03.400 lot of work, but with this, it's like it's kind 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:07.720 of like not doing something would help the animals. Anyhow, 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:09.760 it's a long winded way of saying, we've been talking 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:11.320 about this. So we have a new jerky out. We 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:14.240 take our own jerky. So if you guys bought our cookbooks, 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:16.920 we always have jerky recipes in our cookbooks, and we 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.320 have a new jerky out. Here's a package right here 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:22.080 where we take our own recipes from our cookbooks and 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:25.440 use them on American buffalo So bison jerky. You can 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:26.760 get it. You can go to you can get it 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:30.120 right now. There's been a lot of fun working on it. 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:32.080 You can get it. You can you can order your 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:35.320 own at meat Eatersnacks dot com. One hundred percent buffalo 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.840 fuel in the country for a long time, and then 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:41.640 you can go read about do. 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.079 You taste tests on set here. 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:47.040 Well, do you want some we do mega taste tests 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:48.640 on set. You want classic pepper? 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:54.520 Yeah, I think pepper, classic pepper, Yeah, classic, sorry, class. 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:57.199 That new fangled pepper. Try it out. 0:13:57.200 --> 0:13:58.160 It's not normal pepper. 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:00.720 But you know, when you start you on jerky, then 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:02.200 you got to talk gets hard. 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:04.360 Just do it right into the microphone. 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:10.760 You enjoy them, You enjoy them. It's a good morning jerky. 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:14.280 You regret taking that. It's a good early morning. 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.160 I just want this part to be clipped and that's it. 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:21.160 You guys can end it now. Yeah, that's actually really 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:22.040 good though, No, it is good. 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:22.400 It's great. 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:23.040 That is solid. 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.200 No, I think it's fantastic. It turned out really well. 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:25.560 Really really good. 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:27.720 That's not that's not regular pepper. Right there, that is 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:28.920 classic pepper right there. 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:30.360 We had a lot of back and forth. We finally 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:34.840 got one that we love. One last little thing. Uh. 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:39.280 Whitetail Week is here right now. September twenty nine through 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:42.680 October fifth, First Lights run their white tail sale up 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:49.880 to forty off all kinds of gear. Oh look at this, 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.280 here's a kicker. If you pick up a new white 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:54.840 tail jacket and bibbs. First Light. We'll throw in a 0:14:54.880 --> 0:15:00.000 Moultrie trail camera for free shopping out first light dot com. 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:01.240 How could you say no to that? 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:04.280 So, yeah, it's not just a Moultie trail camera, it's 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:08.520 the first Light cameo multie trail camera. 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:11.520 That's what I got. I got one cheeping an eye 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:12.760 on my fish shack right now. 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:18.920 That that's an interesting thing, is like the Moultie folks 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:21.600 really just want you talking about hunting, and I'm like, 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:24.920 the hunting stuff I don't worry about nearly as much 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:29.560 as people, uh breaking into stuff. Yeah, and that's a great, 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:33.160 great use of those trail cameras. 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:36.680 Doug has a sign coming into the buckshack the farmhouse. 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:40.080 It reminds it's like a sign telling you that if 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:45.600 you're breaking in, he already has your picture on his phone. 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:51.040 Yeah, he's got in typical Doug form. There's some cutesiness 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:55.200 about it too, like like there's nothing in here worth 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:55.760 the trouble. 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.960 Yeah, nothing in here worth the trouble you're gonna have. Yeah, 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:04.040 you know, I'd argue that because he's got this. He's 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:10.840 got this twelve pound uh sledge hammer head no handling 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:14.320 it that he uses to hold the bathroom door. Yeah, 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:19.560 and I kind of want that sledgehammer head. How much 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:21.080 trouble do you get in for taking something like that? 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:22.080 It can't be like a lot. 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:25.400 So when you enter a window, is it to the 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:28.960 left or right? As long as they're putting this out there, 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:30.840 go in, go in and. 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:34.640 Go like go in? Is it just like like just 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.120 to the right? Gotcha's a bathroom door. There's a twelve 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:41.840 pound sledgehammer head there propping the door. That is just 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:46.160 a waste of a beautiful sledgehammer head antique. I would 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:49.440 tell people, dog's gonna have your picture. Yeah, don't start 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:50.080 in the kitchen. 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:54.200 The kitchens like the table bypass the kitchen, and it 0:16:54.320 --> 0:17:00.560 is so chocked fully junk from you know, decades of 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:04.760 people thinking, oh, you could use an extra sauce pan, 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:08.880 but there's already nine different saucepans jammed in the back 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:09.320 of this thing. 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:09.640 Yeah. 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:11.720 Anytime you go to put something away, there's just like 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:16.760 this cascade of old aluminum and nonstick pans and tin and. 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:19.880 People are like they're holding it over their garbage can 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:22.000 and they're like, dah, I'll brand the ducks. 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:25.880 Exactly. Oh, it's infuriating. 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:30.400 Uh, here's here's the interesting little fight, bruin. We're only 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:33.000 gonna do like one or two. I think we got 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:35.959 one newsy thing we're gonna do. One's just funny. I'm 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:39.720 gonna do the funny one first. So, oh, did you 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:46.840 guys see damn it the Mississippi Black Panther. Yeah, that's funny, 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:49.359 And then you can get into it. A news story 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:54.200 broke out in Maryland. I only caught it after it happened. 0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:58.359 But a woman got approached by a bear in Maryland. Okay, 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:02.600 she from the bear and fell and got hurt. The 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:04.480 bear never touched her, but she fell and got hurt. 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.479 So there was like a bear and an injury. So the 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:14.080 news cycle, I guess very quickly was like attack and 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:19.480 then it was well self inflicted she here's a self 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:23.280 inflicted bear injury related So you could go and find 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:25.159 if you felt like you can go and kind of 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:27.640 track the sort of evolution. 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.360 Of of like what exell phone game? 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:32.280 But what exactly went down that phantom bear attack? 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:37.720 Here's one it's more interesting. I'm bringing the sucks. We've 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:39.399 covered this bunch over the years, and our very own 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:43.359 Jordan Sillers just wrote a piece about it. Florida is 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:46.520 my favorite story in the in the world. Years ago, 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:51.600 Florida ran a bear hunt. Florida had many bears. If 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:56.040 you go back historically, they over hunted them, they over 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.400 poisoned them, they over predator controlled them to the point 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:05.280 where they had very few bears. Bears have really recovered 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:07.240 in Florida, I think now, like you know, over fifty 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:11.840 percent of the state has good bear populations. Years ago 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:14.240 they ran a bear hunt, and they ran a bear 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:16.600 hunt in Florida. You might pulling up what year that 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:18.760 was Randall's I was bragging bot how fast he is 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:25.760 that researching? Well, I turned my WiFi. Years ago they 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:29.840 opened a bear hunt and they did the management strategy 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:34.639 of using a quota. And when you use a quota hunt, 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:36.880 what it is is you'd go and say, I'm trying 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:38.399 to do the best way to the simplest way to 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:40.359 put this. You say to your you say to the 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:42.280 people in your state. You're like, hey, we're gonna have 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:47.000 a bear hunt. And the quota is one hundred bears, 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:50.240 so everybody could go the whole state. You all go hunting. 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:53.320 As soon as you get one, call our hotline. And 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:56.600 then when we get to like ninety eight, we're gonna 0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:59.439 turn it off, okay, And that's a quote. That's how 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:02.320 a quota said some functions. So everybody goes and you 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:04.880 just count, count, count, count, count, and then bank. Many 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:08.920 things are managed by quota. There's caribou herds in Alaska 0:20:08.960 --> 0:20:11.880 that are quota hunts where they like, you hit two 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:15.679 hundred in the region closes in the state. I'm in 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:18.919 Montana right now. Montana runs quota's on mountain lions. They 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:24.760 run quota sheet bighorn sheep where anyone, anybody that wants 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:28.040 can participate. It turns off when you hit the quota, 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:29.840 and there's a little bit of a there's a lag. 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:32.840 There's a little art and science to it, like you 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:38.080 sort of watch your quota. It's speed and then and 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:40.080 then you usually have a little bit of a buffer 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:42.919 to turn it off. Meaning if some guy is like 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:47.600 drawn back on a on a big horn sheep and 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:49.600 all of a sudden his phone dings and the quota 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:53.000 is full, right, but he doesn't look at his phone 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:54.800 and shoots the big orn sheep, he's not trouble because 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:57.600 they give a forty eight hour buffer. So they go 0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:00.639 like they the numbers climb and you're sort of watching 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:05.359 the trajectory and you're watching your quota cap and you 0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:07.359 call it and you're like, okay, it's full. So in 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:11.440 forty eight hours, season's over. When Florida years ago tried 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:14.240 this bear hunt twenty fifteen, twenty fifteen, they tried a 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:19.600 bear hunt, and they in some of their areas they 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:23.960 shot past the quota very very fast, blew everybody away. 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:28.400 How fast a quota like, they had some units where 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:30.640 they blew past the quota, And. 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:32.440 I just bring the speed up because I do think 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:34.680 that's like a factor in the general reaction. 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:36.600 Yeah, I don't think they had any idea. 0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:41.399 In two days the state wide quota because this doesn't 0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:43.760 really this distorts like what actually happened. But the state 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:46.360 wide quota was three twenty and in two days they'd 0:21:46.400 --> 0:21:50.880 killed three hundred. But because of the regional distribution of that, 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:53.760 like some areas were way shot past. 0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:55.359 And then you call it. And then I think that 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:58.200 what happened in some of those areas is they called it, 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.160 but there's a twenty four hour window, and then during 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:04.640 the twenty four hours over the they shot over the quota, 0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:07.280 not enough to be of like biological significance, but plenty 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:12.199 enough to be of social significance because it was a 0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:15.439 very contentious issue. It like, if you look at if 0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:18.000 there's a theme in wildlife management, it would be that 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:21.679 when you have a species that becomes imperiled and you 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:24.800 stop hunting for that species because it comes imperiled, and 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:28.600 then over time you recover it, you will naturally like 0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:31.480 you're gonna have friction when you want to reinstate a 0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:35.439 hunt because people in their minds, for as far as 0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:38.679 they can remember, back the bears there are not around, Like, 0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:41.159 how can we be hunting? I thought bears are imperiled 0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:43.440 and like they're not recovered. And also now you're telling 0:22:43.440 --> 0:22:45.760 me we're gonna hunt them. I've known my whole life 0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:48.960 that that you can't hunt them because right so you're 0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:52.160 gonna have friction, And that created a lot of friction, 0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:56.560 so much so that they just it was the agency 0:22:56.800 --> 0:23:00.520 was beat up on the whole thing. Again, biologically insigt significant, 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:03.439 but it was socially very significant that in some areas 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:06.080 they went over the quota and then Florida just said, okay, 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:11.720 we're done with bear hunting. They're trying again now, which 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:14.520 I fully support. They're trying again, and this time they're 0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:17.600 using the other way you do this. The other way 0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:23.119 you do this is you say you say, Okay, everybody 0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:26.040 can't go. We're not going to do that. Everybody goes thing, 0:23:27.359 --> 0:23:32.520 and the quota we're going to do where only some 0:23:32.600 --> 0:23:34.400 of you get to go. And I think they're probably 0:23:34.400 --> 0:23:38.520 doing a quota too right on top of that, Yeah, 0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:40.280 they have it. They have a mount they want. They're 0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:44.680 issuing one hundred and eighty seven bear permits, So now 0:23:44.720 --> 0:23:46.720 they know how many people are going to be a field. 0:23:46.960 --> 0:23:49.480 They're going to issue one hundred and eighty seven bear permits. 0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:51.520 And what are they look at that? I know they 0:23:51.560 --> 0:23:53.800 have some quotas in place. I can't find it here. 0:23:57.400 --> 0:24:01.159 It's right, So what is it provide like tons of 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:07.280 opportunity for with the expectation that there's it's theoretical opportunity, 0:24:07.800 --> 0:24:12.919 the expectation of actual opportunity is much much lower. In 0:24:12.960 --> 0:24:20.720 that twenty fifteen hunt, the state didn't properly estimate the 0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:27.720 actual opportunity in the field, meaning that a lot more 0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:31.080 people who in theory wouldn't be successful were in a 0:24:31.160 --> 0:24:37.520 very short amount of time. And it's a great fundraising mechanism, right, 0:24:37.560 --> 0:24:40.360 because you get to sell a ton of permets. And 0:24:40.400 --> 0:24:44.040 this is just exactly how like wolf tags in the 0:24:44.040 --> 0:24:49.040 state of Montana function. Everybody buys a wolf tag, very 0:24:49.160 --> 0:24:52.439 very very few people put in any actual effort to 0:24:52.600 --> 0:24:57.840 target wolves. Specifically. It's like a animal of opportunity versus 0:24:58.640 --> 0:24:59.520 strict pursuit. 0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:01.640 I buy them sons of bitches every year and never 0:25:01.640 --> 0:25:02.479 do anything different. 0:25:02.680 --> 0:25:04.880 Exactly, yeah, exactly, yes. 0:25:04.960 --> 0:25:07.000 This will this will impact my behavior zero. 0:25:07.560 --> 0:25:09.440 But then there's that other group of people who are 0:25:09.440 --> 0:25:14.639 like I am specifically dedicating time in the pursuit of wolves. 0:25:14.720 --> 0:25:21.640 Corey Calvin's right, yep, he's happy either way. 0:25:21.760 --> 0:25:26.879 He knows what you mean. So they're they're saying to 0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:29.880 one hundred and eighty seven people, hey, instead of letting 0:25:29.880 --> 0:25:31.639 everybody go, you one hundred and eighty seven going, it's 0:25:31.680 --> 0:25:33.320 gonna be easier to monitor this whole thing. And they 0:25:33.320 --> 0:25:36.240 have a thing. So you buy a They're doing it 0:25:36.240 --> 0:25:41.159 through a lottery democratic allocation five dollars lottery ticket. You 0:25:41.240 --> 0:25:44.920 buy as many chances as you want five bucks. If 0:25:44.960 --> 0:25:47.160 you draw, though, then you got to buy the permit. 0:25:47.960 --> 0:25:50.760 So if you're so like you win, well, then to 0:25:50.800 --> 0:25:52.720 actually get your permit, then you got to come up 0:25:52.720 --> 0:25:55.640 with more money. So it's five bucks to get in. 0:25:56.560 --> 0:25:58.919 And if you draw, if you're a resident, your permit 0:25:59.000 --> 0:26:01.560 is one hundred bucks. Your non resident, your permit is 0:26:01.600 --> 0:26:05.840 three hundred bucks. Great deal. Now here's where it gets 0:26:05.880 --> 0:26:13.760 Here's where it gets saucy. The uh uh Sierra Club 0:26:15.200 --> 0:26:23.200 is pushing its members, Hey, save a bear. Buy all 0:26:23.240 --> 0:26:28.479 these lottery tickets and then don't use them if you win, Okay, 0:26:29.040 --> 0:26:31.960 And they're like, that's how we're gonna save bears. Florida's 0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:34.639 attitude about this is you guys can buy all the 0:26:34.680 --> 0:26:40.320 tickets you want. That's great for you're generating all this thing. 0:26:40.440 --> 0:26:42.360 So they are a conservation organization again. 0:26:42.280 --> 0:26:45.000 And if we don't hit the quota, then we know 0:26:45.160 --> 0:26:47.240 next year we're just gonna release a lot more. 0:26:47.440 --> 0:26:47.640 Yeah. 0:26:47.720 --> 0:26:53.040 Right, So it's like, you know, okay, this is the 0:26:53.119 --> 0:26:55.200 thing that's been tried before. Like I don't know if 0:26:55.200 --> 0:26:59.920 you remember Wyoming Grizzlies. Yeah, and the catch there, you're 0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:02.880 ago when they moved to dlist grizzly bears in Wyoming, 0:27:02.880 --> 0:27:04.439 they were gonna do you remember twenty four They were 0:27:04.440 --> 0:27:06.000 gonna issue twenty four permits. 0:27:06.080 --> 0:27:09.000 Yeah, I was an Idaho resident at the time, so 0:27:09.080 --> 0:27:11.359 I actually was in the drawing. 0:27:11.400 --> 0:27:12.960 Oh, you were in the draw for the one tag, 0:27:13.040 --> 0:27:15.680 for the one tag. Yeah. And then in Wyoming some 0:27:15.880 --> 0:27:17.840 guys went out and there was a big push to 0:27:17.880 --> 0:27:21.199 get none hunters to try to get the permit, but 0:27:21.240 --> 0:27:23.480 they never did the draw, so you never could wind 0:27:23.560 --> 0:27:28.320 up seeing. Uh, it'll be it'll be interesting to it'll 0:27:28.359 --> 0:27:30.640 be interesting to see. I could picture that what they 0:27:30.720 --> 0:27:34.199 might do. Like if I was in Florida fishing games 0:27:34.240 --> 0:27:39.400 shoes the agency shoes for Florida Wildlife Commission. I guess 0:27:39.480 --> 0:27:42.399 is who approved the bear hunt rule. I would be 0:27:42.480 --> 0:27:45.440 wondering should we should we make it a greater hurdle 0:27:46.720 --> 0:27:50.560 to enter, meaning you got to go and let's say 0:27:50.560 --> 0:27:54.439 you gotta be licensed, fully licensed, you got to go 0:27:54.520 --> 0:27:58.120 and take an online bear identification class so you learn 0:27:58.160 --> 0:28:00.920 how to tell a female with cubs, or like what 0:28:01.119 --> 0:28:03.200 I like money, Would I make it more of a. 0:28:03.160 --> 0:28:06.720 Pain in the ass to filter out the preservationists. 0:28:05.920 --> 0:28:09.639 To filter out anti hunters, or would I just really 0:28:09.680 --> 0:28:11.640 be like, no, I want all those five dollars. 0:28:11.920 --> 0:28:14.680 So they've sold they've sold more than one hundred and 0:28:14.720 --> 0:28:19.840 sixty thousand chances have they Yeah, Florida for one hundred 0:28:19.840 --> 0:28:20.800 and eighty seven tags. 0:28:21.359 --> 0:28:23.240 Good for them, good for conservation. 0:28:23.280 --> 0:28:26.879 Someone could tell me a lot of times five dollars is. 0:28:28.240 --> 0:28:29.119 It's about a million? 0:28:30.320 --> 0:28:38.440 I would you can grow anything in Florida. Literally, if 0:28:38.440 --> 0:28:40.920 I was one of those bear tag holders, That's what 0:28:41.000 --> 0:28:45.000 I would be concentrated. I'd be like, what mix of 0:28:45.080 --> 0:28:47.640 food do I want in the black Bear? I'm going 0:28:47.640 --> 0:28:58.480 to target apple region right like where? Yeah, that'd be exciting, Yeah, exactly. 0:28:59.080 --> 0:29:00.480 Yeah, it's yeah to have. 0:29:02.120 --> 0:29:03.520 Or even have to. Yeah. 0:29:03.800 --> 0:29:06.880 My favorite word lately is it's a it's a situation 0:29:06.920 --> 0:29:10.200 that's gotten frothy. I heard that in the market, like 0:29:10.240 --> 0:29:13.400 in the markets listening to markets about the new frothy 0:29:13.920 --> 0:29:15.440 like a lot of M and a a lot of 0:29:15.600 --> 0:29:17.479 M and a activity out there. He'd be like, it's 0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:18.560 a frothy. 0:29:19.160 --> 0:29:22.520 Can you snacks? You should have be a frothy something. 0:29:22.640 --> 0:29:32.120 Yeah, frothy classic, Yeah, I would say, yeah. 0:29:32.000 --> 0:29:35.960 What a final point on this, it's like a little 0:29:36.000 --> 0:29:41.920 bit sticky. I feel for Sierra Club. It's like, how 0:29:42.040 --> 0:29:44.440 is it cool for like is it cool for Sierra 0:29:44.560 --> 0:29:47.480 Club to be? Is it cool for Sierra Club to be? 0:29:47.600 --> 0:29:52.400 Like not only do we not support the State agency, right, 0:29:52.680 --> 0:29:55.120 the state biologists and the State Agency is doing this. 0:29:55.760 --> 0:29:59.560 Not only do we not support their mission, we're we're 0:29:59.600 --> 0:30:03.440 promoting the idea that you try to like thwart right. Yeah, 0:30:03.520 --> 0:30:05.840 the effort, which seems to me like that's a that's 0:30:05.880 --> 0:30:06.959 an aggressive play. 0:30:07.120 --> 0:30:08.000 They're always aggressive. 0:30:08.200 --> 0:30:09.320 That's an aggressive play. 0:30:09.240 --> 0:30:13.000 Their whole thing is being aggressive. Oh yeah, I mean 0:30:13.000 --> 0:30:15.680 they only raise money off of being aggressive. They're almost 0:30:15.720 --> 0:30:18.200 a billion dollar annual organization every year because they raise 0:30:18.280 --> 0:30:21.280 money off of being anti whatever the other groups are for. 0:30:21.640 --> 0:30:25.200 That's they actually want sort of this this coverage even 0:30:25.480 --> 0:30:26.800 because the conflict. 0:30:27.160 --> 0:30:30.080 This fill the conflict. 0:30:30.800 --> 0:30:34.080 They love that Donald Trump's president because they can raise 0:30:34.200 --> 0:30:36.520 all the money in the world of being against everything 0:30:36.520 --> 0:30:39.240 that he does. And when things are good and you're 0:30:39.280 --> 0:30:42.160 solving problems, it's harder to rile people up. They love 0:30:42.240 --> 0:30:45.120 riling people up. They're the problem in my opinion. 0:30:45.200 --> 0:30:46.840 It's funny bring it up because Randall and I were 0:30:46.840 --> 0:30:48.840 talking you have today about I don't even want to 0:30:48.920 --> 0:30:50.600 kind of get into this, but we were talking about 0:30:50.800 --> 0:30:56.000 please I'm glad that I'm just gonna be real quick 0:30:56.000 --> 0:30:59.840 about it. We're talking about tail and all ah. 0:31:03.480 --> 0:31:04.560 As one does on. 0:31:04.520 --> 0:31:09.560 A Wednesday, trying to explain and Randall is trying to capture. 0:31:10.720 --> 0:31:13.640 If I go on to social media and I want 0:31:13.680 --> 0:31:18.280 to find out what people how people feel about Tailano, 0:31:18.600 --> 0:31:21.560 I will come away with a different impression of what 0:31:21.600 --> 0:31:24.640 people feel about Tylanh the thing I would if I 0:31:24.680 --> 0:31:27.680 was just going about my existence in life. 0:31:27.680 --> 0:31:32.280 If you hold up a newspaper and start eavesdropping, there 0:31:32.120 --> 0:31:34.200 are people pounding the table about Thailand. 0:31:34.200 --> 0:31:35.720 I mean, at this point we should start creating like 0:31:35.760 --> 0:31:38.000 pro tail and all anti thailandolf swag. 0:31:38.160 --> 0:31:41.600 I feel that a lot of people are actually out 0:31:41.640 --> 0:31:44.160 there thinking like, huh, that was kind of weird. 0:31:46.400 --> 0:31:48.600 What side are you on your pick? 0:31:48.800 --> 0:31:51.040 Fighter Ye when. 0:31:50.880 --> 0:31:54.160 He takes the national temperature, he feels the national temperature 0:31:54.680 --> 0:31:57.560 in spite of what was happening in the news. The 0:31:57.640 --> 0:32:02.000 national temperature was huh. 0:32:02.080 --> 0:32:03.400 I guess I'll go to work today. 0:32:05.960 --> 0:32:11.080 Well, our leaders are fighting about what silent Yeah, I 0:32:12.240 --> 0:32:14.720 followed it autism, and I. 0:32:14.680 --> 0:32:18.760 Will point out the tag buying strategy I know back 0:32:18.800 --> 0:32:23.880 to the bears, the buddy of mine drew the Upper 0:32:23.960 --> 0:32:28.360 Rock Creek big Horned Sheep tag when it was still good, 0:32:28.400 --> 0:32:34.920 and the jackasses who locked out all the public access 0:32:34.920 --> 0:32:41.400 and Upper Rock Creek weren't there. The UH ran into 0:32:41.440 --> 0:32:47.760 two guys, father's son who had drawn the Lower Rock 0:32:47.800 --> 0:32:51.320 Creek a couple of the U tags. 0:32:52.000 --> 0:32:54.360 And this is back in the days. They're just standing 0:32:54.440 --> 0:32:55.240 along the road. 0:32:55.160 --> 0:33:00.280 Yes exactly, ye, And we're chatting with them and they're like, oh, 0:33:00.280 --> 0:33:04.440 we're non hunters, we just bought we apply for tags, 0:33:04.440 --> 0:33:06.400 and then we come out like wildlife Watch and this 0:33:06.440 --> 0:33:10.680 is how we save animals. And that was back in 0:33:11.000 --> 0:33:15.480 probably I bet like four five. 0:33:15.840 --> 0:33:18.640 They were pioneers, early adopters. 0:33:18.800 --> 0:33:21.040 Yeah, so, I mean it was, it has been a 0:33:21.080 --> 0:33:22.600 strategy in the past. 0:33:22.720 --> 0:33:25.520 Yeah, it makes I mean it seems like you could 0:33:25.560 --> 0:33:29.360 take everyone on the planet and have them all forget everything, 0:33:30.160 --> 0:33:32.240 and then have new people come and I think those 0:33:32.320 --> 0:33:35.320 new people would quickly oh hit on the idea that 0:33:35.320 --> 0:33:36.640 this could be a thing one could do. 0:33:37.080 --> 0:33:38.480 Oh yeah, for sure. 0:33:38.560 --> 0:33:41.320 Yeah, you're like, uh huh. 0:33:40.520 --> 0:33:43.360 Yeah, well, I mean we were just talking about this. 0:33:43.440 --> 0:33:45.120 I missed the big party last night because I was 0:33:45.120 --> 0:33:47.240 at the public land water access. 0:33:47.400 --> 0:33:50.120 I was able to track your movements through a way 0:33:50.120 --> 0:33:52.560 that you would never anticipate. Oh, your next door, my 0:33:52.600 --> 0:33:56.680 neighbor is on the board. Yeah, so I knew where 0:33:56.680 --> 0:33:58.120 you were before you knew where you were. 0:33:59.360 --> 0:34:01.640 That was great. Yeah, we chatted for a little bit, 0:34:01.680 --> 0:34:06.800 but you could. I brought up in my talk last night. 0:34:06.840 --> 0:34:11.960 I'm like, you know this public Lands fight. You know, 0:34:12.719 --> 0:34:17.520 these people fought this in the thirties, forties, fifties, and 0:34:17.560 --> 0:34:26.240 people were like where I thought, we just won that, right. 0:34:25.640 --> 0:34:30.919 Like this does happened before? Thought, Yeah, it will happen 0:34:30.960 --> 0:34:32.000 again sooner than we'd like. 0:34:32.760 --> 0:34:35.839 Kel it sound ten year cycle, I think, thanks, Yeah, 0:34:35.880 --> 0:34:39.880 well that's tens like snow hairs plus three years. 0:34:39.800 --> 0:34:41.200 And it's going to happen sooner again. 0:34:42.320 --> 0:34:42.759 Oh I know. 0:34:42.840 --> 0:34:46.719 So unfortunately, first off, man, give us some background. You're 0:34:46.719 --> 0:34:49.719 from Green Bay, yep, go pack Yeah is it Benjamin? 0:34:49.920 --> 0:34:53.360 Benjamin Packer Benjamin? But so will you shortened? Most guys 0:34:53.440 --> 0:34:54.879 go all the way down to bed then? 0:34:55.040 --> 0:34:55.600 Yeah, nobody. 0:34:55.600 --> 0:34:57.480 I wanted to kept some Yeah, yeah, I had kept 0:34:57.520 --> 0:35:01.680 a little extra little tail there called Benji. 0:35:01.880 --> 0:35:02.120 Yeah. 0:35:02.239 --> 0:35:04.399 I second grade woke up and said I don't want 0:35:04.400 --> 0:35:06.600 to have been Benjamin's too long, So Benji it is. 0:35:06.640 --> 0:35:08.280 But thanks. 0:35:08.320 --> 0:35:08.480 Yeah. 0:35:08.480 --> 0:35:12.319 I grew up in Green Bay and I watched John 0:35:12.400 --> 0:35:14.960 McCain and Barack Obama debate in two thousand and eight 0:35:15.000 --> 0:35:16.560 and said, I want to be part of that for. 0:35:16.480 --> 0:35:17.600 The whole ten. 0:35:19.200 --> 0:35:21.239 You were like, I want to be a detective, right, 0:35:21.440 --> 0:35:21.880 or a. 0:35:21.760 --> 0:35:28.919 Sports announcer or an NFL player. I'm five nine, There's 0:35:28.920 --> 0:35:32.640 no way I'm becoming an NFL player. But yeah, I 0:35:32.800 --> 0:35:34.279 was like, I really want to be part of the 0:35:34.280 --> 0:35:37.080 civic process, and so I started. I asked my parents, 0:35:37.120 --> 0:35:38.799 who were not political at all, can we go? Can 0:35:38.800 --> 0:35:42.759 I go door knocking for John McCain? And they were like, 0:35:42.800 --> 0:35:45.799 that is the weirdest thing that you could ask us 0:35:45.960 --> 0:35:47.960 to do. And my parents were not political at all, 0:35:48.120 --> 0:35:49.880 and they did not want to have signs in their 0:35:49.960 --> 0:35:51.680 yard or bumper stickers in their cars or any of 0:35:51.680 --> 0:35:55.520 that stuff. And I just was like allured by the process. 0:35:55.719 --> 0:35:58.879 And so I became super active in high school in 0:35:59.160 --> 0:36:03.880 conservative politics and spoke at Seapack. My freshman year of 0:36:03.960 --> 0:36:06.160 high school was on Fox News for the first time. 0:36:06.160 --> 0:36:09.920 My freshman year of high school, I had a really 0:36:09.960 --> 0:36:15.640 good biber haircut. My Wisconsin accent was really intense, and 0:36:15.640 --> 0:36:19.279 I knew nothing about what I was doing, obviously, but 0:36:19.360 --> 0:36:22.440 I cared a lot about America was really what it 0:36:22.480 --> 0:36:24.160 came down to and like I wanted to be a 0:36:24.160 --> 0:36:29.800 part of solving complex problems. But I have since grown 0:36:30.120 --> 0:36:33.920 more and more disillusioned with politics and I hate the 0:36:33.920 --> 0:36:36.960 two party system. I hate the political system that we're 0:36:36.960 --> 0:36:40.440 working within, and I hate how it's impacted the environment 0:36:40.880 --> 0:36:43.640 and conservation. Because at the same time that I was 0:36:44.120 --> 0:36:47.640 strangely volunteering for John McCay and Meant Romney, I also 0:36:47.840 --> 0:36:51.960 was an avid hiker avid skier, was fishing every weekend 0:36:52.280 --> 0:36:55.680 in the summer with my grandpa. My parents were vegan, 0:36:56.120 --> 0:36:58.399 so oh yeah, So I was the only meat eater 0:36:58.440 --> 0:37:00.359 in my family. So I'm like the as I didn't 0:37:00.360 --> 0:37:02.680 meat eater in my family, so it's nice to be another. 0:37:05.680 --> 0:37:07.879 My parents were just, I think, like most people were 0:37:07.880 --> 0:37:10.640 just like whoever has the best ideas they're going to 0:37:10.719 --> 0:37:16.879 vote for. Like they they're conservatives, practical fiscal conservatives. They 0:37:17.000 --> 0:37:20.200 voted for McCain and Romney, but like they were definitely 0:37:20.239 --> 0:37:24.440 like independent voters. And my sisters are liberal. And I 0:37:24.840 --> 0:37:28.279 grew up in a very like politically diverse family, but 0:37:28.320 --> 0:37:30.359 we all got along and we all loved each other, 0:37:30.480 --> 0:37:33.560 and so I was frustrated politics. I loved the environment, 0:37:33.560 --> 0:37:35.640 and I also realized that people could actually get along 0:37:35.760 --> 0:37:38.719 and that the country that I was seeing crumble politically 0:37:39.200 --> 0:37:42.560 and it's still getting worse, was not representative of the 0:37:42.600 --> 0:37:46.160 people itself. Like the people themselves don't want that to happen, 0:37:46.200 --> 0:37:48.080 and they're not as polarized, they're not putting each other 0:37:48.080 --> 0:37:51.640 in such boxes. And so that's kind of how I 0:37:51.680 --> 0:37:54.960 got to being more of, you know, trying to bridge 0:37:54.960 --> 0:37:57.439 the divide on conservation in the environment, because if there's 0:37:57.480 --> 0:38:00.279 one issue that should transcend party lines that should get 0:38:00.320 --> 0:38:03.759 action regardless of who wins, it should be conservation in 0:38:03.760 --> 0:38:06.920 the environment like it used to. So I transitioned to 0:38:06.920 --> 0:38:09.400 that my freshman year of college, tweeted out that I 0:38:09.400 --> 0:38:11.880 was going to start a nonprofit to get this going. 0:38:11.760 --> 0:38:14.880 As a freshman in college. Yeah, yeah, I knew. I 0:38:14.960 --> 0:38:17.360 knew when you did it that you were young, but 0:38:17.360 --> 0:38:19.400 I hadn't thought about the fact that you're like, like 0:38:19.520 --> 0:38:22.600 also being in college eighteen. Yeah, because normally it's like, well, 0:38:22.600 --> 0:38:24.800 I'm a freshman college and I have to drink a lot, 0:38:25.320 --> 0:38:28.000 and then that's kind of my schedule. 0:38:28.120 --> 0:38:31.560 Yeah, girls, drinking time. 0:38:31.440 --> 0:38:34.839 To hang out, standard smoking weed. I have a hard 0:38:34.840 --> 0:38:36.040 time finding a hangout time. 0:38:37.560 --> 0:38:41.680 I was starting environmental policy nonprofits instead, Well, where were 0:38:41.680 --> 0:38:42.200 you at school? 0:38:42.280 --> 0:38:43.160 University of Washington. 0:38:43.600 --> 0:38:46.880 So I searched the best business school, best business schools 0:38:46.880 --> 0:38:49.520 in America and went down the list to the first 0:38:49.520 --> 0:38:51.160 one that was in a place that I could hike 0:38:51.200 --> 0:38:54.120 and ski on the weekends. And the University of Washington 0:38:54.160 --> 0:38:56.040 was like probably like fortieth on the list of best 0:38:56.040 --> 0:38:58.920 business schools, but it was the closest to where I 0:38:58.960 --> 0:39:04.640 wanted to recreate. So the Cascades obviously beautiful national parks 0:39:04.640 --> 0:39:07.279 out there, and that's really why I went there. So 0:39:07.360 --> 0:39:09.799 then I started it out there, and I started, you know. 0:39:09.880 --> 0:39:11.640 And like registered a nonprofit. 0:39:11.920 --> 0:39:13.880 Yeah, I first started a pack because I had know 0:39:14.080 --> 0:39:16.520 what I was doing and I. 0:39:16.480 --> 0:39:20.399 Was all done that, just me eighteen looking up. 0:39:20.719 --> 0:39:22.920 So what's the quickest way to start a nonprofit? Well, 0:39:22.920 --> 0:39:24.279 a pack gets approved right away. 0:39:24.360 --> 0:39:25.840 Classic freshman you're a mistake. 0:39:25.960 --> 0:39:28.400 Oh yeah, you look wake up and you look at 0:39:28.400 --> 0:39:30.400 all the texts that you sent out that you don't remember, 0:39:30.440 --> 0:39:36.040 and then you're like, oh my god, one. 0:39:35.840 --> 0:39:39.560 Of those I was you. 0:39:43.640 --> 0:39:47.279 I highly recommend because there's basically zero barriers of entry. 0:39:48.040 --> 0:39:49.560 I know this, I mean, I know I know what 0:39:49.680 --> 0:39:52.120 it is, but I didn't know that is it designed 0:39:52.120 --> 0:39:52.720 to be fast? 0:39:53.360 --> 0:39:53.920 It shouldn't be. 0:39:54.000 --> 0:39:56.040 But like if you want to start, if you want 0:39:56.239 --> 0:39:58.719 an eighteen year old accidentally starts a pack and then 0:39:58.760 --> 0:40:02.120 suddenly is the owner of a pack, and then there's 0:40:02.239 --> 0:40:05.040 no like the I R. S checks five to one 0:40:05.040 --> 0:40:07.480 C three's traditional nonprofits. It takes like a year to 0:40:07.520 --> 0:40:10.400 approve that a packets approved literally overnight. 0:40:10.880 --> 0:40:14.200 To help people. I mostly know what you're talking about, 0:40:14.200 --> 0:40:15.840 but just help people understand, like what you mean. So 0:40:15.880 --> 0:40:17.880 there's different designations, political actual committee. 0:40:17.920 --> 0:40:18.720 There's diferent designations. 0:40:18.760 --> 0:40:23.759 They're ephemeral, right, because you can they're very responsive to 0:40:24.680 --> 0:40:26.839 I mean, like like a race heats up, you get 0:40:26.880 --> 0:40:28.680 a nominee, and then all of a sudden, there's all 0:40:28.680 --> 0:40:30.840 these packs, right, and some of them are meant to dissolve. 0:40:30.880 --> 0:40:32.680 That's because there's a lot of eighteen year olds starting packs. 0:40:32.719 --> 0:40:36.120 The most visibility right for the normal person is that 0:40:36.440 --> 0:40:40.120 fine print that says paid for by right Concerned Citizens 0:40:40.320 --> 0:40:41.960 for Montana. 0:40:41.600 --> 0:40:43.000 Factory twenty four. 0:40:43.360 --> 0:40:45.080 Yeah, yeah, yeah, no one knows who it is. 0:40:45.880 --> 0:40:47.879 In this case, it was me, but you know it's 0:40:48.040 --> 0:40:50.560 it's basically a political action committee. There's a super pack 0:40:50.600 --> 0:40:52.560 in a pack, but it's it's a government designation of 0:40:52.680 --> 0:40:54.719 what you can do with the money when someone donates it. 0:40:54.880 --> 0:40:56.960 And so, uh, like a five to one C three, 0:40:57.040 --> 0:40:59.080 which is like the Red Cross, and like all the 0:40:59.120 --> 0:41:01.680 big nonprofits they you're aware of that's tax deductible to 0:41:01.760 --> 0:41:03.719 a donor, they can't do any political activity at all. 0:41:04.160 --> 0:41:07.279 A pack you do not get a tax deduction when 0:41:07.280 --> 0:41:09.880 you donate, and it strictly is going to be to 0:41:09.920 --> 0:41:13.960 support candidates, like you're supporting political candidates. There's no educational 0:41:14.040 --> 0:41:17.080 part of it. It's it's it's a political organization. And 0:41:17.120 --> 0:41:18.360 so I was like, wait a second, I'm trying to 0:41:18.480 --> 0:41:21.239 like bridge the divide on the environment. I'm not trying 0:41:21.280 --> 0:41:23.240 to like donate to candidates. So then I quickly shuddered 0:41:23.320 --> 0:41:24.640 the weekend mistake. 0:41:24.800 --> 0:41:27.200 But a pack is it would be is a five 0:41:27.239 --> 0:41:28.759 to one C four, right, So. 0:41:29.080 --> 0:41:29.960 That's very complicated. 0:41:30.000 --> 0:41:32.080 But no, because if I on C four, this is like, 0:41:32.239 --> 0:41:34.680 this is like zero point one hundred of the things 0:41:34.719 --> 0:41:36.359 that you don't wish you new at age twenty seven 0:41:37.200 --> 0:41:38.880 the difference between the C four and the pack. But 0:41:39.520 --> 0:41:42.640 a C four is a non tax deductible organization that 0:41:42.719 --> 0:41:45.080 can lobby, but they don't really donate. You can donate 0:41:45.120 --> 0:41:47.759 to candidates, but it's like a certain percentage. A pack 0:41:47.880 --> 0:41:50.120 is strictly to get people elected, and. 0:41:50.200 --> 0:41:51.080 That was not my goal. 0:41:51.920 --> 0:41:52.920 It's a money funnel. 0:41:53.000 --> 0:41:55.560 It's a money funnel, and it's basically so people can't 0:41:55.640 --> 0:41:59.200 trace the money to dark money. It is honestly dark money, 0:41:59.320 --> 0:42:01.840 and it's like anyone can donate and then it's not 0:42:01.960 --> 0:42:04.759 traced back to them and no one knows where the 0:42:04.800 --> 0:42:09.160 money came from. So the whole nonprofit space is very complicated, 0:42:09.200 --> 0:42:13.320 and I think it probably designed partially that way. The 0:42:13.400 --> 0:42:16.000 money in politics thing is its own really big issue. 0:42:16.800 --> 0:42:17.960 But what was your pack? 0:42:18.800 --> 0:42:25.000 Conservatives for Environmental Reform? And basically my original goal was 0:42:25.120 --> 0:42:27.240 to get conservatives back to the table on the environment 0:42:27.360 --> 0:42:30.600 because I watched Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton debate, and 0:42:31.000 --> 0:42:33.279 Hillary Clinton had a radical plan for the environment that 0:42:33.320 --> 0:42:36.000 I didn't agree with that was like shut down industry, 0:42:36.719 --> 0:42:40.320 very preservationist. Wasn't about hunting or fishing or anything with 0:42:40.440 --> 0:42:43.120 the outdoors. It was largely just climate, climate, climate, but 0:42:43.560 --> 0:42:45.320 on the extreme end. And then Donald Trump was like, 0:42:45.320 --> 0:42:47.200 none of these problems exist and we shouldn't do anything 0:42:47.239 --> 0:42:49.200 about them, and he had no plan. I was like, 0:42:49.280 --> 0:42:51.440 what the hell am I supposed to do? And I 0:42:51.600 --> 0:42:53.120 leaned right, So I was like, I got to get 0:42:53.160 --> 0:42:56.400 conservatives back to the table. So that's kind of the 0:42:56.520 --> 0:43:00.879 origin story of what became the American Conservation Coalition, which 0:43:00.880 --> 0:43:03.040 I still started my freshman year just after. 0:43:02.920 --> 0:43:05.040 The pack mistake second semester. 0:43:05.160 --> 0:43:05.840 You always. 0:43:07.719 --> 0:43:10.560 Turn it to the five to one C three, and 0:43:10.640 --> 0:43:13.240 that organization now is one hundred thousand members across the country, 0:43:13.440 --> 0:43:15.560 has big staff, does a lot of work in DC. 0:43:16.000 --> 0:43:19.000 It is strictly focused on getting conservatives active on the environment. 0:43:19.560 --> 0:43:21.759 But to me, that wasn't far enough because to me, 0:43:21.840 --> 0:43:25.880 it's not about the labels. Like the rational majority of 0:43:25.880 --> 0:43:29.759 Americans across the political spectrum, as I opened saying, want 0:43:29.800 --> 0:43:32.040 the same things, and I don't care if it's Martin 0:43:32.040 --> 0:43:36.440 Heinrich or Tim Sheehey or Donald Trump or Kamala Harris. 0:43:37.320 --> 0:43:38.920 We got to figure out how to get shit done 0:43:39.000 --> 0:43:42.240 no matter who's in office and what the political wins 0:43:42.440 --> 0:43:45.960 are in that moment, and we have to show politicians 0:43:46.000 --> 0:43:48.760 that Americans want this, not just conservatives and not just liberals. 0:43:49.160 --> 0:43:51.440 We need to show them that Americans across the spectrum 0:43:51.440 --> 0:43:54.600 want action. So I thought getting conservative to the table 0:43:54.680 --> 0:43:58.480 was helpful. But there's no organization in this country right 0:43:58.560 --> 0:44:02.319 now that hasn't impact no matter who wins. The Sierra Club, 0:44:02.640 --> 0:44:06.560 even the Nature Conservancy, any of these traditional environmental groups, 0:44:06.920 --> 0:44:09.800 They're only relevant when democrats win. And the organization I 0:44:09.840 --> 0:44:13.239 started in college is only relevant when Republicans win. What 0:44:13.360 --> 0:44:16.200 about an organization that's just trying to move consistent conservation 0:44:16.600 --> 0:44:19.520 through no matter what, and no matter who you are politically, 0:44:19.560 --> 0:44:21.480 you want to be a part of that movement. And 0:44:22.239 --> 0:44:24.279 that's the vision of nature as nonpartisans. So it kind 0:44:24.320 --> 0:44:27.359 of went from a pack mistake to a conservative group 0:44:27.760 --> 0:44:30.680 to now building upon that to try to build a 0:44:30.760 --> 0:44:31.960 nonpartisan movement in America. 0:44:32.040 --> 0:44:39.200 Again, let's start with the let's start with the polar opposite. 0:44:39.239 --> 0:44:43.719 So what year was it, twenty sixteen? I guess twenty fifteen. Yep. 0:44:43.800 --> 0:44:46.040 That was my senior high school freshman year of Colusus. 0:44:45.800 --> 0:44:48.719 Where you had two visions yep. One one being a 0:44:48.800 --> 0:44:52.120 vision of denial, YEP one being a vision of offering 0:44:52.360 --> 0:44:55.080 a fix that isn't going to get wide spread buy in. Yeah, 0:44:56.400 --> 0:45:00.640 I could picture that if you were like a picture 0:45:00.680 --> 0:45:06.680 that if you were a staunch Democrat, because of all 0:45:06.719 --> 0:45:10.359 their other planks in their platform that you might say, Man, 0:45:11.040 --> 0:45:15.640 I need to go get my party to start getting more. 0:45:15.520 --> 0:45:16.279 In line. 0:45:17.760 --> 0:45:22.160 With Middle America so that we can win and I 0:45:22.200 --> 0:45:26.120 can get my other policy pieces in that play right, 0:45:26.360 --> 0:45:29.640 Like we're losing on the same way you might say 0:45:29.840 --> 0:45:33.600 in twenty in the last election cycle, like if you were, 0:45:34.640 --> 0:45:38.840 if you were, if you're sitting there thinking, man, the 0:45:39.000 --> 0:45:43.080 tax structure in America is whacked. Corporations should be paying 0:45:43.080 --> 0:45:46.360 way more taxes, the poor should be paying way less taxes. 0:45:46.840 --> 0:45:49.880 But that's never going to happen because our party is 0:45:49.960 --> 0:45:54.160 going to continue to get slammed on DEI issues. I 0:45:54.280 --> 0:45:56.839 need them to stop it about that so we can 0:45:56.880 --> 0:46:00.840 stick to the things that most of the country like. 0:46:01.080 --> 0:46:05.000 That's our Achilles heel right, right, Like I can picture that, 0:46:05.400 --> 0:46:09.640 But what's hard for me to picture is the process 0:46:09.760 --> 0:46:14.160 of saying that, like to be like, I'm a conservative, 0:46:14.880 --> 0:46:20.560 I want bigger environmental presence within my party. I want 0:46:20.640 --> 0:46:22.840 them to come around in my way of thinking. I 0:46:22.880 --> 0:46:24.840 feel that that would be like very private. 0:46:25.680 --> 0:46:26.640 For the politicians. 0:46:26.760 --> 0:46:28.680 For you, oh for me, I feel like that's you 0:46:28.880 --> 0:46:32.799 having meetings with politicians, Yeah, because you can't burn them 0:46:34.280 --> 0:46:37.279 you feel that you like, you can't publicly burn them. Well. Now, 0:46:37.320 --> 0:46:38.839 the same way, if I was doing my whole thing, 0:46:38.960 --> 0:46:41.919 I might go and say, hey, listen, tone it down, 0:46:42.880 --> 0:46:48.480 tone it down. I'm like athletes, like who plays on 0:46:48.600 --> 0:46:49.040 what team? 0:46:49.680 --> 0:46:52.200 But I could do I could do that. I could 0:46:52.239 --> 0:46:55.680 do that, but that's not morally right to me. I 0:46:55.760 --> 0:46:57.920 could be in the Trump administration right now, or have 0:46:58.080 --> 0:46:59.960 some really high position if I just played the game. 0:47:00.080 --> 0:47:02.440 I don't care about playing the game. I want to 0:47:02.480 --> 0:47:05.880 get conservation outcomes. And so I'm willing to be bolder 0:47:06.560 --> 0:47:08.200 because of that, and I'm willing to take on both 0:47:08.239 --> 0:47:11.480 sides because a spotlight like, hey, you guys are freaking 0:47:11.560 --> 0:47:14.319 weak here, and you're losing people. And by the way, 0:47:14.440 --> 0:47:17.040 I'm not afraid to say, you should lose people because 0:47:17.080 --> 0:47:19.359 you don't have an environmental plan. You should lose people 0:47:19.719 --> 0:47:22.200 because you don't care about conservation. You should lose people 0:47:22.280 --> 0:47:25.120 because you don't have any plan for clean air clean water. 0:47:25.239 --> 0:47:28.600 But yet you use those terms in your speeches, right Like, 0:47:28.640 --> 0:47:30.440 you say you want clean air and clean water, but 0:47:30.520 --> 0:47:33.040 yet you're rolling back some of the most important regulations 0:47:33.200 --> 0:47:36.520 and policies in American history. I'm not afraid to say 0:47:36.600 --> 0:47:38.919 that because I don't care about who. I actually don't 0:47:38.960 --> 0:47:41.440 care about who wins. In high school, I might have 0:47:41.480 --> 0:47:44.600 cared I expose a seatback and stuff, but I do 0:47:44.800 --> 0:47:49.200 not care who wins. I'm an environmentalist, conservationist, nature lover 0:47:49.840 --> 0:47:52.919 person who wants to protect wild places and allow people 0:47:52.960 --> 0:47:54.840 to go hunt, fish recreate in them so that we 0:47:54.920 --> 0:47:57.239 can also have a healthy livelihood more than I care 0:47:57.239 --> 0:48:00.440 about any political identity. And I think most people when 0:48:00.480 --> 0:48:02.640 they think about this issue, do you think about it 0:48:02.719 --> 0:48:05.680 that way? So people think I mean. In the last 0:48:05.680 --> 0:48:10.040 couple of weeks, I've this famous EPA transition guy for 0:48:10.120 --> 0:48:11.759 Trump just wrote a big hit piece on me that 0:48:11.840 --> 0:48:14.000 I was like this trojan horse at Climate Week, just 0:48:14.040 --> 0:48:15.960 trying to promote the Green New Deal, and I get 0:48:16.000 --> 0:48:18.439 told that I'm all the time some like maga guy. 0:48:19.440 --> 0:48:21.000 It's because I don't really care. 0:48:21.920 --> 0:48:23.200 Like we're quite familiar with it. 0:48:23.320 --> 0:48:25.360 Yeah, you guys definitely get that. 0:48:25.719 --> 0:48:29.800 We're quite clear that you're like everyone. 0:48:29.760 --> 0:48:34.680 Like you get in the box, and I don't want 0:48:34.719 --> 0:48:35.400 to be in the box. 0:48:35.640 --> 0:48:38.480 Yeah, so don't you say anything. Just get in the box. 0:48:40.400 --> 0:48:41.919 And just say what we want you to say. 0:48:42.239 --> 0:48:45.160 But that would work I mean, so I've been starting 0:48:45.160 --> 0:48:46.600 to talk about this a little bit more because of 0:48:46.640 --> 0:48:50.160 the light of recent events. I co founded, and I've 0:48:50.200 --> 0:48:51.840 never said this in a podcast for but I've I 0:48:51.960 --> 0:48:54.480 co founded Turning Point us say, with Charlie kirk Oh 0:48:55.000 --> 0:48:57.920 in twenty twelve. I was fourteen years old, so just 0:48:58.320 --> 0:49:01.719 it was a lot long time ago. The organization was 0:49:01.760 --> 0:49:04.800 supposed to be about young people standing up to the 0:49:04.840 --> 0:49:07.560 government to prevent the national debt from getting worse. 0:49:08.400 --> 0:49:09.359 That was the turning point. 0:49:09.480 --> 0:49:12.359 Yes, that was the founding origin of Turning Point. 0:49:13.760 --> 0:49:17.759 Like, you guys are gonna really stick it to You're 0:49:17.800 --> 0:49:21.959 really sticking it to us, right our generation. Yeah, later, 0:49:22.200 --> 0:49:24.359 Like at some point we're gonna have to tackle this. Yeah, 0:49:24.360 --> 0:49:26.120 at some point, you're creating a real headache for us. 0:49:26.120 --> 0:49:29.440 So please make my future not so tenuous exactly. 0:49:29.520 --> 0:49:33.560 So Charlie and I had this vision for that. Charlie, 0:49:35.120 --> 0:49:37.800 that was a very tragic event, and it was a 0:49:37.960 --> 0:49:41.840 very perfect opportunity to see how divided our country is becoming, 0:49:41.880 --> 0:49:44.600 which is a huge problem. But what Charlie saw was 0:49:44.600 --> 0:49:49.200 that there was an opportunity in playing into the political 0:49:49.360 --> 0:49:54.359 culture war. Right, if I wanted to be a part 0:49:54.719 --> 0:49:57.720 of the culture War. For the sake of telling people 0:49:57.880 --> 0:50:01.520 how to win voters or or how to get people 0:50:01.880 --> 0:50:04.560 a part of our team or box, I'd be doing 0:50:04.600 --> 0:50:07.920 things so much differently than I am. And again I 0:50:08.000 --> 0:50:13.440 could have many times. But it is ruining our country 0:50:13.640 --> 0:50:17.400 and it's ruining conservation as well. And so for me, 0:50:17.680 --> 0:50:19.440 when I wake up every morning, I think of how 0:50:19.520 --> 0:50:22.600 much progress can I make given the political shit that 0:50:22.680 --> 0:50:27.399 we're in, Because for the first time in a long time, 0:50:28.040 --> 0:50:31.120 our environment is getting worse in America. Again, we actually 0:50:31.160 --> 0:50:33.120 solved a lot of big problems for a very long time. 0:50:33.200 --> 0:50:36.440 We funded public lands, We had the Clean Air Act 0:50:36.480 --> 0:50:38.520 and Clean Water Act take care of really bad problems 0:50:38.600 --> 0:50:40.880 in our cities and in our rivers. We had the 0:50:41.000 --> 0:50:43.600 Endangered Species Act, which was effective for a couple of years. 0:50:43.640 --> 0:50:47.760 There is sorely in effective. Wildfires are getting worse, public 0:50:47.840 --> 0:50:51.400 lands are getting worse, the management of our ecosystems is 0:50:51.440 --> 0:50:54.439 getting so much worse. Our water quality is getting worse. 0:50:55.880 --> 0:50:58.640 And you know what the byproduct of all that is is, 0:50:58.760 --> 0:51:02.200 because it is the byproduct of the division that we're saying. 0:51:02.400 --> 0:51:04.640 Because no one actually has an incentive to solve problems. 0:51:04.680 --> 0:51:07.600 They have an incentive to feed the culture wars. And 0:51:08.360 --> 0:51:10.640 until we change that incentive, at least on this I 0:51:10.680 --> 0:51:12.720 can't promise that we can change it on every issue. 0:51:13.440 --> 0:51:16.040 But until we create a movement that just says we 0:51:16.160 --> 0:51:17.640 expect you to get shit done and we're not going 0:51:17.719 --> 0:51:21.399 to vote for you if you don't prioritize conservation, that's 0:51:21.400 --> 0:51:23.320 actually the part that we should be saying out loud. 0:51:23.800 --> 0:51:25.439 That's the part that we should be saying out loud, 0:51:25.440 --> 0:51:29.320 because it's not just about killing animals for recreation and 0:51:29.520 --> 0:51:31.520 hiking and skiing and all the things. 0:51:31.400 --> 0:51:33.360 That we all love, right It's not just about that. 0:51:33.800 --> 0:51:35.320 The health of our environment is about the health of 0:51:35.400 --> 0:51:39.239 us too, and right now we are failing miserably, and 0:51:39.320 --> 0:51:41.799 the left doesn't care, and the right doesn't care. They 0:51:41.840 --> 0:51:45.000 care about winning the next election, and that is where 0:51:45.080 --> 0:51:47.360 the root of our environmental problems comes from. And so 0:51:47.800 --> 0:51:49.920 I say that to say, I could go down this 0:51:50.080 --> 0:51:52.120 path of playing into the culture wars, but I wouldn't 0:51:52.120 --> 0:51:54.839 be sitting at this table right now, and I absolutely 0:51:55.320 --> 0:51:58.560 wouldn't be fighting for our environment because it's way easier 0:51:58.600 --> 0:52:00.120 to make a name for yourself and get power and 0:52:00.200 --> 0:52:02.759 get you know, influence right now off of doing things 0:52:02.800 --> 0:52:07.120 completely differently. But at some point, at some point, Americans 0:52:07.160 --> 0:52:08.920 are going to wake up and realize that the system 0:52:09.000 --> 0:52:12.080 right now is screwing us all and it's also screwing 0:52:12.160 --> 0:52:15.160 up our environment. Uh. 0:52:17.840 --> 0:52:19.640 That's what I'm backup common on the thing you brought 0:52:19.719 --> 0:52:25.080 up with, just how hot like how he did the 0:52:27.560 --> 0:52:29.680 how he did the online I always want to point 0:52:29.719 --> 0:52:33.960 this out, how he did the online experiences right, Oh, totally. 0:52:34.200 --> 0:52:38.800 Now for Charlie Kirk, Yeah, it wasn't an online experience. No, 0:52:40.280 --> 0:52:43.920 that was a way that online like became a bullet 0:52:44.000 --> 0:52:46.440 in real life. Yeah, and like killed a man. Right, 0:52:46.680 --> 0:52:49.040 Do you know what I'm saying. I have this thing, 0:52:49.080 --> 0:52:50.600 and I've brought it up. I brought up to ten 0:52:50.680 --> 0:52:54.200 guests talking about various things. I think I was most 0:52:54.239 --> 0:52:59.120 recently talking about with Sebastian Younger, where I'm like, there's 0:52:59.200 --> 0:53:01.680 what I under stand to be true about the climate 0:53:01.719 --> 0:53:07.160 in America from social media, the news, and then there's 0:53:07.239 --> 0:53:10.759 what I understand to be true about America from being 0:53:10.800 --> 0:53:16.759 an American, Yes, from going about my business and I 0:53:16.840 --> 0:53:19.880 had I met someone for breakfast this morning. Yeah, the 0:53:20.760 --> 0:53:24.200 conversations we had on the street with people, the interactions 0:53:24.239 --> 0:53:26.440 we had with the people that were working there, like 0:53:26.800 --> 0:53:30.000 the whole picture. I would never come out of my 0:53:30.200 --> 0:53:35.800 morning being like, good lord, everyone's the country's falling apart. 0:53:36.360 --> 0:53:39.560 I'd be like, this seems like a wonderful country. This 0:53:39.719 --> 0:53:44.200 is this America. This is awesome being an American. But 0:53:44.280 --> 0:53:47.560 then I go and look about what it is and 0:53:47.640 --> 0:53:52.479 it's red hot, and and and with with Charlie Kirk, 0:53:52.800 --> 0:53:57.440 like I was like, man, and many other examples, this 0:53:57.520 --> 0:54:00.879 is this was because it's fresh. With Charlie Kirk was like, Man, 0:54:01.520 --> 0:54:04.400 they collide, they are they collide. 0:54:04.480 --> 0:54:07.400 And then we're manifesting it to become It used to 0:54:07.480 --> 0:54:08.800 just be an online thing I used to get. I 0:54:08.840 --> 0:54:10.920 got death threats in high school for what I was 0:54:10.960 --> 0:54:12.640 doing politically, I had. 0:54:13.600 --> 0:54:16.560 Because people don't like because it's it's too unexpected, right, 0:54:16.560 --> 0:54:19.000 it's too unexpected to see a woman that killed a 0:54:19.080 --> 0:54:21.000 lion in Afta that. 0:54:21.640 --> 0:54:27.080 That's gonna go viral off more than more than making 0:54:27.160 --> 0:54:29.319 phone calls. And my voice hadn't even changed yet. Okay, 0:54:30.280 --> 0:54:31.920 I was just a little boy, But yeah, I mean 0:54:31.960 --> 0:54:37.480 that they're the chronically online world, which is so disconnected 0:54:37.480 --> 0:54:39.560 from reality. I mean, I had breakfast with Van Jones 0:54:39.640 --> 0:54:42.600 yesterday in New York City, the big social justice liberal 0:54:42.840 --> 0:54:46.520 commentator see an guy I don't recognize that name, CNN host. Yeah, 0:54:46.560 --> 0:54:48.120 but he's black social justice guy. 0:54:49.600 --> 0:54:49.919 We don't. 0:54:50.000 --> 0:54:51.680 He's one of my best friends. I don't talk to 0:54:51.800 --> 0:54:53.919 him about politics. I just love him as a human, 0:54:54.200 --> 0:54:57.040 you know. Like, and my mom's like, oh, what, you know, 0:54:57.120 --> 0:54:58.600 what what issues did you guys talk about? I'm like, 0:54:58.640 --> 0:55:00.239 we literally didn't. He just give me advice and how 0:55:00.280 --> 0:55:01.560 to be a better leader. And we were just talking 0:55:01.560 --> 0:55:03.960 about life and his girl, his fiance and all that stuff. 0:55:05.560 --> 0:55:08.080 That is how most of America actually operates on a 0:55:08.200 --> 0:55:10.560 day to day basis. But then you look online and 0:55:10.640 --> 0:55:13.480 you see what But we're becoming a chronically online nation. 0:55:13.600 --> 0:55:15.400 I mean, you look at the average screen time in 0:55:15.480 --> 0:55:18.839 this country, and it's not people looking at candy crush, right, 0:55:19.480 --> 0:55:22.640 it's people looking at Twitter and Instagram and feeding themselves 0:55:22.680 --> 0:55:26.200 the worst information. And we are convincing ourselves that everyone 0:55:26.239 --> 0:55:29.680 else is actually evil, like Hitler level evil for both 0:55:29.719 --> 0:55:32.040 sides to think about the other side. So it is 0:55:32.160 --> 0:55:34.040 colliding now. For a while, it was just like, oh yeah, 0:55:34.160 --> 0:55:36.160 just turn off the social media. It's just it's not 0:55:36.200 --> 0:55:38.319 that bad in real life. Well, it's becoming that bat 0:55:38.360 --> 0:55:40.120 in real life because we're manifesting. 0:55:39.680 --> 0:55:41.719 You, because it's some dude on a roof of the gun, right, 0:55:42.440 --> 0:55:43.440 and people takes one. 0:55:43.880 --> 0:55:45.080 It only takes one to. 0:55:46.600 --> 0:55:49.880 Bring it out of the yeah right, and man it 0:55:50.040 --> 0:55:55.160 has a yeah. It's like it's been I look. I 0:55:55.200 --> 0:55:59.160 brought that up as a preamble to say I got 0:55:59.200 --> 0:56:08.000 a fifteen year old. The insanity that he comes home 0:56:08.160 --> 0:56:10.040 and he's you know, he comes home and it's just. 0:56:10.120 --> 0:56:14.400 Like and then it was like, Dad, here's some solid facts. 0:56:14.440 --> 0:56:16.759 I know. It's not even that, it's more like a 0:56:16.880 --> 0:56:19.320 what do you He kind of comes home with like 0:56:19.400 --> 0:56:22.120 what do I make of this? Right? And just the 0:56:22.320 --> 0:56:29.480 insane things, the insane things that are being spun out 0:56:29.560 --> 0:56:32.480 of that it's just this A long preamble led me 0:56:32.600 --> 0:56:34.920 to like I hit a point a week like some 0:56:35.200 --> 0:56:37.279 time ago. A week ago, I hit a point where 0:56:37.320 --> 0:56:42.640 I'm like, dude, I am like, I was like, I 0:56:42.760 --> 0:56:46.480 am ready at my age, I'm ready to just I'm 0:56:46.480 --> 0:56:50.000 going to step away from discourse. I mean I'm not, 0:56:50.600 --> 0:56:52.600 but for a minute, I for the first time in 0:56:52.640 --> 0:56:54.160 my life, I was like, I just don't want to 0:56:54.200 --> 0:56:56.880 talk to anybody. Anymore. Like I don't want to participate 0:56:57.440 --> 0:56:59.239 in the discourse anymore. I just want to be the 0:56:59.320 --> 0:57:04.480 guy that only knows about who he runs into at 0:57:04.520 --> 0:57:08.279 the hardware store. It's like, I'll go to the Harvard 0:57:08.280 --> 0:57:09.399 store because that's going to be cool. 0:57:09.520 --> 0:57:10.399 We have to bring that back. 0:57:11.120 --> 0:57:13.959 I'll go wherever. I'll go to my buddies party because 0:57:14.000 --> 0:57:17.960 that's going to be cool. But I can't do anything. 0:57:18.680 --> 0:57:20.920 It didn't last and it's not for real. But I 0:57:21.040 --> 0:57:22.840 just had a point where I'm like, I'm just done. Man, 0:57:23.440 --> 0:57:28.640 Like I'm done because that style of that style of 0:57:29.400 --> 0:57:34.160 uh debating or that style of like exploring ideas is 0:57:34.240 --> 0:57:38.760 like it's rational conversation. Hey, like I understand what you're saying, 0:57:38.760 --> 0:57:40.600 but I don't agree. Is pass a? 0:57:41.240 --> 0:57:45.080 Yeah, that's it's absolutely not the norm anymore. And I feel, 0:57:45.240 --> 0:57:46.040 so do you give up? 0:57:46.720 --> 0:57:46.760 No? 0:57:47.160 --> 0:57:48.840 I think we got to play the game. 0:57:49.760 --> 0:57:50.520 Okay, what's the game? 0:57:50.880 --> 0:57:53.240 The game is, let's let's talk about the environment. 0:57:53.480 --> 0:57:54.240 How do you play the game? 0:57:54.840 --> 0:57:59.720 We have to create a similar movement around culture shifting 0:58:00.160 --> 0:58:04.560 for conservation that that is in people's social media networks, 0:58:04.600 --> 0:58:08.600 it's it's in their communities, it's around them, because we 0:58:08.720 --> 0:58:11.000 are not going to beat the algorithm. We're not going 0:58:11.080 --> 0:58:15.320 to change people's tendencies to log on to social media 0:58:15.360 --> 0:58:18.520 whenever there's a break in their day, at least not 0:58:18.600 --> 0:58:22.400 anytime soon and see the worst news imaginable. We have 0:58:22.560 --> 0:58:24.760 to figure out how to meet people where they're at 0:58:25.200 --> 0:58:28.640 and help people understand that there's something they can advocate 0:58:28.760 --> 0:58:31.640 for right instead of just being like, oh my god, 0:58:31.640 --> 0:58:33.160 I hate this person, I hate this person, I hate 0:58:33.160 --> 0:58:33.560 this person. 0:58:37.240 --> 0:58:40.360 As a song, you have a little tune to that. 0:58:41.360 --> 0:58:44.800 Sometimes, you know what, I guarantee, I guarantee he goes 0:58:44.840 --> 0:58:46.240 in and takes that out of the show. 0:58:47.640 --> 0:58:50.200 Just to prove you it's not going to happen. I'm 0:58:50.240 --> 0:58:52.720 not disturb but my one person I left through is 0:58:52.760 --> 0:58:53.360 my wife, and. 0:58:53.440 --> 0:58:59.320 So just breaks the whole flow during the show. 0:59:01.680 --> 0:59:04.720 Yeah, kind of piggyback a little bit off of what 0:59:04.800 --> 0:59:11.080 Steve said, but also just the the there isn't a 0:59:11.320 --> 0:59:17.080 need I see, Well, it's going to be complicated. I 0:59:17.200 --> 0:59:21.160 push back on the fact that like established conservation groups 0:59:21.200 --> 0:59:28.160 aren't making stuff happen under every administration. I mean they are, 0:59:29.920 --> 0:59:33.760 maybe like the is the win that we're getting not 0:59:33.960 --> 0:59:36.000 an actual win. A lot of times I believe that 0:59:36.400 --> 0:59:40.480 for sure. Like I think if we are looking in 0:59:40.680 --> 0:59:44.240 terms of like, oh my gosh, the Democrats did this, 0:59:44.480 --> 0:59:47.240 that's such a win, that's not a win. If we're 0:59:47.240 --> 0:59:49.440 looking in terms of like, Okay, the Republicans did this, 0:59:50.480 --> 0:59:52.640 that's a win, that's not a win. Agree. The win 0:59:52.920 --> 0:59:58.840 is when it's there's certain things like the health of 0:59:59.720 --> 1:00:05.960 are an natural resources are just this non starter for 1:00:06.160 --> 1:00:10.520 every political party, Like it's assumed that these things have 1:00:10.680 --> 1:00:13.360 got to have a certain level of health and management 1:00:13.920 --> 1:00:19.000 because it does tie into national defense, the health of 1:00:19.560 --> 1:00:24.439 individuals within our country, mental and physical, and our food 1:00:24.480 --> 1:00:27.840 production and all the things like it does. 1:00:28.120 --> 1:00:32.560 But I would say the groups that are currently out there, 1:00:33.640 --> 1:00:35.760 there are so many good organizations, many of whom we 1:00:35.800 --> 1:00:38.880 both work with, but it's not getting the job done. 1:00:39.520 --> 1:00:41.000 And what I mean by that is there is no 1:00:41.200 --> 1:00:44.080 cultural movement in America that's telling politicians they should take 1:00:44.320 --> 1:00:48.560 the environment seriously as America, like as Americans, like the 1:00:48.680 --> 1:00:51.960 Human Rights Campaign, for example, you might disagree with gay 1:00:51.960 --> 1:00:55.200 marriage or you might love gay marriage. They showed politicians 1:00:55.760 --> 1:00:58.080 they had a national campaign. Their bumper stickers are still 1:00:58.120 --> 1:01:00.520 on people's cars all over the country that it was 1:01:00.560 --> 1:01:04.360 an expectation for almost all Americans that equality was important. 1:01:05.760 --> 1:01:08.200 That's how they got it done. And obviously this is 1:01:08.200 --> 1:01:10.440 a different issue because it's not just like one landmark 1:01:10.520 --> 1:01:12.680 thing that we need to get accomplished. We need continuous 1:01:12.960 --> 1:01:18.320 But there was a national unified expectation of conservation thirty 1:01:18.400 --> 1:01:22.400 years ago that does not exist right now. So and 1:01:22.760 --> 1:01:25.520 that is not the failure of these organizations, but it's 1:01:25.560 --> 1:01:29.840 not working. The current movement is not working. And the 1:01:29.920 --> 1:01:32.200 vast majority of people who do reach out for conservation 1:01:32.280 --> 1:01:34.880 in the environment are left of center people, whether we 1:01:34.920 --> 1:01:36.800 want to admit that or not. And until we make 1:01:36.840 --> 1:01:40.640 it left center and right, until we show no matter 1:01:40.640 --> 1:01:42.440 if you're a Republican or a Democrat, this was an 1:01:42.480 --> 1:01:45.800 expectation of Americans that we're going to continue going down 1:01:45.800 --> 1:01:48.880 this trajectory where we don't get the policies that we need, 1:01:49.280 --> 1:01:51.840 and actually, even worse, we get the policies that none 1:01:51.880 --> 1:01:54.120 of us want, which is what we've been getting over 1:01:54.160 --> 1:01:57.560 the last year. And it's because there's not an expectation 1:01:58.120 --> 1:02:01.560 of pushback. The only time that I've seen it since 1:02:01.600 --> 1:02:03.600 I became active in this space where it's actually worked 1:02:03.720 --> 1:02:07.080 is this public land selloff where you had people from 1:02:07.080 --> 1:02:10.680 across the political spectrum saying, no, over my dead body, 1:02:10.720 --> 1:02:13.320 you're going to sell this land. Right, But we haven't 1:02:13.400 --> 1:02:16.960 had a unified front like that on the environment for decades. 1:02:17.440 --> 1:02:19.920 And we can try to push behind the scenes. And 1:02:20.120 --> 1:02:22.360 you know, like I love TRCP and t you and 1:02:22.480 --> 1:02:24.680 I know you know Chris and Joel and all these 1:02:24.720 --> 1:02:28.000 are great people running great organizations, but there's no national 1:02:28.120 --> 1:02:30.640 movement that represents what they believe is your. 1:02:31.280 --> 1:02:33.360 As far as like what you're doing. 1:02:33.520 --> 1:02:37.360 That's not that groups like TIERSCP aren't aren't doing currently, 1:02:38.320 --> 1:02:43.360 You're talking about a coalition that expands beyond the Hunter 1:02:43.640 --> 1:02:48.560 because I think the Hunter angler space has is unique 1:02:48.960 --> 1:02:52.600 in that it's it has that bipartisan. 1:02:53.360 --> 1:02:53.720 Angle. 1:02:54.560 --> 1:02:56.840 It's expanding that if I think beyond the hook and 1:02:56.880 --> 1:02:57.440 bullet I am. 1:02:57.600 --> 1:02:59.720 I am having a hard time thinking beyond the hook 1:02:59.760 --> 1:03:06.120 and at groups what like environmental policy groups have that 1:03:06.240 --> 1:03:09.480 same bipartisan influence because. 1:03:09.280 --> 1:03:13.200 Like I'll give you an example, right, Like I believe 1:03:13.400 --> 1:03:17.000 very strongly in the work that Pheasants Forever Quail Forever does, 1:03:17.320 --> 1:03:21.040 right and and it's like not super sexy working on 1:03:21.120 --> 1:03:22.120 the farm bill right. 1:03:22.120 --> 1:03:24.720 Right, those groups are already there right, and they do 1:03:24.880 --> 1:03:27.400 great stuff, but the culture in America is not there. 1:03:27.880 --> 1:03:31.720 And and here's the example, right, is like, uh, it's 1:03:31.760 --> 1:03:35.440 getting late in the election cycle, yea, all of a sudden, 1:03:35.640 --> 1:03:41.520 it's announced all over media that both parties need hunters. 1:03:42.560 --> 1:03:46.760 Hunters are underrepresented in their demographics, their research, we need 1:03:46.880 --> 1:03:51.080 hunters at the polls. And here's this push from the 1:03:51.160 --> 1:03:55.400 Biden campaign at that point. It was it was the 1:03:55.440 --> 1:03:56.560 Biden campaign at that point. 1:03:56.680 --> 1:03:58.000 Yeah. And and then. 1:03:59.440 --> 1:04:01.360 So it was like Byden Harris for hunters, and then 1:04:01.840 --> 1:04:06.400 and then the Trump campaign was pushing out hunter specific 1:04:06.520 --> 1:04:07.600 language as well. 1:04:08.240 --> 1:04:08.760 And then. 1:04:10.160 --> 1:04:16.920 There's the annual Governor's hunt ye in Minnesota that pheasants 1:04:16.920 --> 1:04:21.440 forever is always a part of, doesn't matter what uh 1:04:21.800 --> 1:04:26.440 political affiliation the standing governor or current governor has, And 1:04:27.960 --> 1:04:30.360 that got kind of turned into like a Biden Harris 1:04:31.320 --> 1:04:36.720 hunter moment that had nothing to do with pheasants forever, 1:04:37.600 --> 1:04:41.960 and they just got absolutely shellact. They still are and 1:04:42.120 --> 1:04:48.040 still are, yeah, and they're they're made to like swallow 1:04:48.120 --> 1:04:52.000 this right rhetoric in order to quote unquote be in 1:04:52.040 --> 1:04:58.560 the room when it's like our history, our track record 1:04:59.280 --> 1:05:03.280 says we will work with anybody in order to fulfill 1:05:03.320 --> 1:05:07.680 the mission, and the mission benefits everybody by the way, yep. 1:05:09.640 --> 1:05:13.440 And the pushbacks on the organization that has this established 1:05:13.480 --> 1:05:19.280 track record of nonpartisanship, the pushbacks not on the politicians 1:05:19.320 --> 1:05:21.160 that manifested all this bs. 1:05:20.960 --> 1:05:26.600 Right, that's true, But the political tenor of the conversation 1:05:27.880 --> 1:05:31.240 hitching your wagon to anybody politically right now is risky, right. 1:05:31.320 --> 1:05:33.880 I mean, Pheasans forever saw that, and they shouldn't have 1:05:33.920 --> 1:05:37.200 been taken, you know, to the to the court for that. 1:05:37.720 --> 1:05:39.920 They should have had Tim Waltz there. And that's not 1:05:40.000 --> 1:05:41.520 a big deal, like it shouldn't be seen that way. 1:05:42.480 --> 1:05:45.360 But I go back to the fact that like this 1:05:45.520 --> 1:05:48.280 public land sell off was almost a godsend in terms 1:05:48.320 --> 1:05:50.680 of giving an example of what I'm trying to build, 1:05:51.480 --> 1:05:54.680 which is, you had millions of people for the first 1:05:54.720 --> 1:05:58.000 time in years, like you did win there's smog in 1:05:58.040 --> 1:06:00.520 the cities across the country, like we did when there 1:06:00.560 --> 1:06:03.960 were rivers on fire in Ohio. Right, you had millions 1:06:03.960 --> 1:06:05.600 of people saying I don't give a shit with my 1:06:05.600 --> 1:06:07.600 political belief is, and honestly I don't. I voted for you, 1:06:07.680 --> 1:06:10.640 Mike Lee, but I'm not for this. That's the cultural 1:06:10.720 --> 1:06:12.680 movement that we need, and so I don't know how 1:06:12.720 --> 1:06:16.160 to change that peasants forever situation, because that's very unfortunate 1:06:16.280 --> 1:06:17.160 and they don't deserve that. 1:06:17.280 --> 1:06:19.600 I guess succinctly, right, I'm like the the issues with 1:06:19.720 --> 1:06:21.120 the politicians. 1:06:20.560 --> 1:06:23.000 Right, the issue is with the politicians, but there's also are. 1:06:22.920 --> 1:06:26.000 The ones who are hitting the clickbait button. 1:06:26.960 --> 1:06:30.360 We're also falling for that right as a populace. Yeah, 1:06:30.800 --> 1:06:35.080 and that's part of the problem too, And so how them, Well, 1:06:35.320 --> 1:06:39.000 the issue is like tim the environment right now, if 1:06:39.040 --> 1:06:41.360 you ask the average person on the street who owns 1:06:41.520 --> 1:06:46.720 the environmental issue, almost everyone would say Democrats. Oh yeah, everyone, 1:06:47.000 --> 1:06:53.800 So we like that, right, but even conservation people associate 1:06:53.840 --> 1:06:58.880 We've done pulling and focus grouping. People associate these words conservation, environmentalist, 1:06:59.200 --> 1:07:03.960 environment wordship, anything related to the environment as liberal coded 1:07:04.240 --> 1:07:05.840 as Democrat coded words. 1:07:06.240 --> 1:07:11.120 And so yes, some more than others, right, I completely agree. 1:07:11.000 --> 1:07:14.360 But we've got to change that because like all these 1:07:14.440 --> 1:07:18.479 words are being weaponized intentionally and unintentionally for people's gains, 1:07:18.480 --> 1:07:23.080 whether that be clickbait or for campaigning. And you know, 1:07:23.160 --> 1:07:25.480 in the same way that like stand up for cancer 1:07:25.640 --> 1:07:27.960 or stand up to cancer or the Human Rights Campaign 1:07:28.040 --> 1:07:30.240 or the gott Milk Campaign, Like, we need to show 1:07:30.360 --> 1:07:33.800 politicians that there is a cultural movement to help create 1:07:33.920 --> 1:07:36.640 space for the Pheasants Forever and the ducks and limiteds 1:07:36.720 --> 1:07:39.120 and the trcps and the great organizations that are out 1:07:39.120 --> 1:07:40.760 there to do the work that they need to do 1:07:41.120 --> 1:07:45.080 because right now it's basically Republicans are fearful of associating 1:07:45.120 --> 1:07:47.480 with any conservation group as they are scared of being 1:07:47.600 --> 1:07:50.440 seen as liberal, and the left is scared of the 1:07:50.560 --> 1:07:53.320 far left coming at them for not going far enough 1:07:53.360 --> 1:07:56.720 on like climate stuff. And so again, it's creating the 1:07:56.800 --> 1:07:59.919 cultural space. And we and there's so many great local 1:08:00.080 --> 1:08:02.640 organizations out there already there. They're already there. There's so 1:08:02.680 --> 1:08:05.720 many great topical based organizations out there, they're already there. 1:08:06.040 --> 1:08:07.840 But in the way that like the Sierra Club or 1:08:08.480 --> 1:08:11.400 NRDC or these groups could have been like the face 1:08:11.640 --> 1:08:15.720 of America's environmental movement, conservation movement, rally people together for 1:08:15.960 --> 1:08:16.960 common sense conservation. 1:08:17.040 --> 1:08:19.200 But didn't we need to create that. 1:08:19.520 --> 1:08:22.240 And and I would say, I don't have every way 1:08:22.320 --> 1:08:25.679 of getting there yet, but someone's got to try because 1:08:25.680 --> 1:08:29.479 the current environmental culture is not working for us, and 1:08:29.640 --> 1:08:32.800 there's no space for politicians to see that they have 1:08:32.960 --> 1:08:36.200 to get something done except for the public. Land sell 1:08:36.240 --> 1:08:39.120 off as like literally the first example in like a decade. 1:08:40.000 --> 1:08:46.439 Yeah, I see, and I see this within the environmental space, 1:08:46.520 --> 1:08:50.320 within the nonprofit space of a real disconnect with the 1:08:50.439 --> 1:08:53.880 end consumer h just as I see it in the 1:08:54.080 --> 1:08:54.880 political realm. 1:08:56.360 --> 1:08:57.280 The week of. 1:08:58.800 --> 1:09:01.720 Land selloff language going in the house, right We're up 1:09:01.760 --> 1:09:06.439 on Capitol Hill talking with everybody we could super back schedule, 1:09:07.000 --> 1:09:08.720 and it was like, hey, don't worry, it's not going 1:09:08.800 --> 1:09:12.439 to happen. But you heard over and over again the 1:09:12.640 --> 1:09:17.040 exact same lines from everybody. And by the way, we're 1:09:17.080 --> 1:09:20.599 not going to sell national parks. Don't worry, right, thank god? 1:09:20.840 --> 1:09:25.439 As just as just in it as I've ever heard that, like, oh, 1:09:25.479 --> 1:09:28.479 we're not talking about national parks. Didn't trust me. I 1:09:28.520 --> 1:09:29.240 didn't think you were. 1:09:31.880 --> 1:09:33.040 Confirmed what I already knew. 1:09:33.640 --> 1:09:38.280 And the you know, it's frustrating but eye opening too, 1:09:38.520 --> 1:09:40.960 where you're like, Okay, something is going on, right because 1:09:41.000 --> 1:09:43.680 everybody seems to have the exact same talking points and 1:09:43.800 --> 1:09:47.719 they have no knowledge of the fact that the people 1:09:47.800 --> 1:09:50.200 that are starting to push back right now have no 1:09:50.360 --> 1:09:54.040 interest in the national parks or very little interest. Uh 1:09:54.320 --> 1:09:57.599 not because they don't care. But the assumption is parks 1:09:57.600 --> 1:09:58.320 are going to be safe. 1:09:59.520 --> 1:10:02.160 I mean I had senior official in the total gistration 1:10:02.560 --> 1:10:06.120 tell me, hey, like Americans won't get upset about this 1:10:06.240 --> 1:10:09.080 because Americans just care about national parks and national park health. 1:10:09.640 --> 1:10:14.479 And I was like, do you realize have you like 1:10:14.640 --> 1:10:18.000 a quick chat ebte? Quick? You know you're gonna research 1:10:18.040 --> 1:10:21.080 it sounds like very quickly you're gonna help. You could 1:10:21.120 --> 1:10:21.640 help them with this. 1:10:22.120 --> 1:10:24.760 You know, there's more recreationists than US four service land 1:10:24.800 --> 1:10:26.519 and b L m N than there are national parks 1:10:26.560 --> 1:10:29.439 every year. So they were missing the boat. But there 1:10:29.520 --> 1:10:31.880 is again a real disconnect between the politics and the 1:10:32.120 --> 1:10:36.040 public on conservation right now. I mean it was but 1:10:36.160 --> 1:10:39.960 it was really uplifting to see like far right militia 1:10:40.040 --> 1:10:44.840 leaders and far left climate activists literally stand together and 1:10:45.680 --> 1:10:45.960 but the. 1:10:49.800 --> 1:10:55.120 With either one of those groups that's replicable. 1:10:56.439 --> 1:11:00.320 That is replicable though, because it's not just about public 1:11:00.400 --> 1:11:03.240 lands and hunting and fishing. It's also about clean water 1:11:03.479 --> 1:11:07.799 and more efficient agriculture and forest health and wildlife conservation 1:11:08.120 --> 1:11:11.200 and like clean air, Like we could rally people in 1:11:11.320 --> 1:11:14.439 a similar diverse coalition and that's what I'm saying hasn't 1:11:14.479 --> 1:11:15.280 existed in a while. 1:11:15.720 --> 1:11:18.840 And so there's it would create, it create. 1:11:19.040 --> 1:11:21.960 It created space to kill the bill or that part 1:11:22.000 --> 1:11:24.120 of the bill and it, but it also could create 1:11:24.160 --> 1:11:25.360 space to do the right thing too. 1:11:25.520 --> 1:11:26.519 And that's the vision that I have. 1:11:30.479 --> 1:11:31.320 Let me hit you with one. 1:11:32.520 --> 1:11:32.640 Uh. 1:11:33.160 --> 1:11:36.200 I had three questions pop up my head, but I'm 1:11:36.240 --> 1:11:38.600 forgetting them as fast as I'm thinking. This was the 1:11:38.680 --> 1:11:41.840 first one that I wanted to ask you about. If 1:11:44.439 --> 1:11:46.400 what is the let's say you what you're you're talking 1:11:46.479 --> 1:11:49.920 to a neighbor. Okay, yep, you're taught new neighbor. And 1:11:50.000 --> 1:11:51.680 you know that you have your taught new neighbor who 1:11:51.840 --> 1:11:54.519 is my parents. Fiscally you're taught to do a fiscally 1:11:54.600 --> 1:12:00.599 conservative neighbor. Sure, okay, single issue voter maybe a little 1:12:00.600 --> 1:12:07.120 bit like likes the fiscally conservative economy efficiency not like 1:12:07.160 --> 1:12:12.240 an idea logue, right, And he says to you, Benji, 1:12:13.000 --> 1:12:14.439 why should I give a shit about any of the 1:12:14.439 --> 1:12:16.680 stuff you're talking about? Like, sell me on it. 1:12:18.600 --> 1:12:22.760 There is no country that we love without the resources 1:12:22.920 --> 1:12:25.640 and the beauty that we have, right, like the resources 1:12:25.680 --> 1:12:28.519 that we develop largely on public land in a lot 1:12:28.560 --> 1:12:31.479 of ways. The resources that we develop, the water that 1:12:31.560 --> 1:12:35.400 we have, the agricultural industry that we have. Our entire 1:12:35.520 --> 1:12:38.280 country relies on the environment to survive. So we could 1:12:38.320 --> 1:12:40.680 extract everything over the next five or ten years and 1:12:40.720 --> 1:12:42.320 probably break in a lot of money, but then we'd 1:12:42.360 --> 1:12:46.560 be destroyed after that. And you can't take care of 1:12:46.600 --> 1:12:48.679 the economy if you don't take care of the environment. 1:12:49.200 --> 1:12:51.680 You can't take care of the country without taking care 1:12:51.760 --> 1:12:55.960 of conservation. And it is not only an economic driver 1:12:56.120 --> 1:12:58.680 to take care of our country. I mean recreation statistics. 1:12:58.720 --> 1:13:03.360 We have the most recreationists in American history, generating you know, billion, 1:13:03.520 --> 1:13:05.839 tens of billions of dollars of revenue for the government. 1:13:06.439 --> 1:13:08.800 It not only generates an economic value, but it also 1:13:08.880 --> 1:13:11.360 generates the value that our communities depend on to survive. 1:13:11.800 --> 1:13:13.840 And I'd argue, what is a more important issue? Like 1:13:13.880 --> 1:13:15.400 I live in Arizona right now, So if we're talking 1:13:15.400 --> 1:13:18.160 to a neighbor in Arizona, what issue is more important 1:13:18.160 --> 1:13:21.360 than water quality in Arizona? I mean in water, in 1:13:21.439 --> 1:13:23.640 water availability, like, I can't think of one because we 1:13:23.720 --> 1:13:25.800 have no water. We don't have a city, right like, 1:13:26.240 --> 1:13:29.360 So this is this is all interconnected with people's lives 1:13:30.320 --> 1:13:32.040 in a way that we've kind of forgotten about because 1:13:32.040 --> 1:13:34.480 we've just developed so many resources and we're so technologically 1:13:34.560 --> 1:13:36.559 driven that we kind of forget about the natural world. 1:13:37.160 --> 1:13:38.040 But but we have to. 1:13:38.439 --> 1:13:40.760 We have a symbiotic relationship with the natural world that 1:13:40.760 --> 1:13:43.400 we've completely forgotten about. And we're one of the last 1:13:43.439 --> 1:13:46.000 frontiers in the world that's actually taking care of our 1:13:46.080 --> 1:13:48.559 land by and large, Like, yes we've got issues, and yes, 1:13:48.640 --> 1:13:51.640 this like public land self was a huge threat, but 1:13:51.720 --> 1:13:54.440 if you look around the world, Africa is getting destroyed 1:13:54.880 --> 1:13:57.519 by the Chinese government and other countries going in and 1:13:57.560 --> 1:14:01.040 saying we're gonna just mine everything and destroy with slave labor. 1:14:02.200 --> 1:14:05.639 South America is getting deforested continually at a crazy rate, 1:14:05.800 --> 1:14:08.880 and its wildlife habitats continually being encroached upon. We are 1:14:08.920 --> 1:14:11.040 one of the last places in the world, Canada, a 1:14:11.120 --> 1:14:13.840 couple of other places where we actually are investing in 1:14:13.920 --> 1:14:17.000 this and it's one of the best values and assets 1:14:17.040 --> 1:14:20.000 that our country has is our environment. So if we 1:14:20.080 --> 1:14:24.439 aren't thinking about that from a national perspective, then we're 1:14:24.439 --> 1:14:26.599 completely missing one of the most important parts of our country. 1:14:27.600 --> 1:14:29.880 Okay, I buy that. 1:14:30.680 --> 1:14:31.439 I would hope you do. 1:14:32.880 --> 1:14:35.760 Well my neighbor by it, I don't know, but you know, 1:14:35.840 --> 1:14:40.000 I think the we have become so digitized that we've 1:14:40.080 --> 1:14:44.720 kind of forgotten about the natural world around us. And yes, 1:14:45.600 --> 1:14:50.320 that's like, it's not the I heard a quote the 1:14:50.360 --> 1:14:52.280 other day that was like so simple, but it's so true. 1:14:52.400 --> 1:14:56.480 Like the environment isn't ours to, you know, extract resources 1:14:56.520 --> 1:15:01.639 from the environment. Is ours to care for and develop 1:15:02.040 --> 1:15:05.040 and work with and conserve so that future generations can 1:15:05.080 --> 1:15:08.640 also exist. So yes, we need to develop resources, and 1:15:08.720 --> 1:15:11.240 yes we need to you know, manage these places, but 1:15:11.320 --> 1:15:13.120 we also have to care for them because we're not 1:15:13.200 --> 1:15:15.160 the only people that are going to inherit this. And 1:15:15.280 --> 1:15:18.120 I think we've just become such a selfish society that 1:15:18.760 --> 1:15:21.280 that neighbor who's worried about fiscal policy isn't they're not 1:15:21.320 --> 1:15:23.920 seeing the forest through the trees literally, right, They're just 1:15:24.080 --> 1:15:28.840 literally thinking about their own vanguard account and the national debt, which. 1:15:28.720 --> 1:15:29.599 Of course is important. 1:15:29.680 --> 1:15:31.960 Both are important, but we've also got to think about, 1:15:32.360 --> 1:15:36.320 you know, our children and grandchildren. And you know, I'm 1:15:36.360 --> 1:15:38.560 twenty seven, I've got you know, I was working with 1:15:39.000 --> 1:15:41.000 Charlie on the National debt when I was twelve right, 1:15:41.439 --> 1:15:44.799 But I still got hopefully seventy more years on this planet, 1:15:45.240 --> 1:15:47.160 and then I'm gonna have kids someday, and then I'm 1:15:47.160 --> 1:15:51.320 gonna have grandkids someday, and I need to have a 1:15:51.400 --> 1:15:55.000 world that's worth bringing them into, right, And it's not 1:15:55.080 --> 1:15:58.519 about like kumbaya, like protect nature because we just care 1:15:58.560 --> 1:16:01.840 about the wildlife. It's like it's so much bigger than that, right, 1:16:01.880 --> 1:16:04.680 It's literally about us, And that's lost in a lot 1:16:04.720 --> 1:16:04.880 of this. 1:16:06.080 --> 1:16:10.160 If you look at there's there's a couple of movements 1:16:10.200 --> 1:16:13.400 that I'm that I'm always stunned by how effective they were. 1:16:14.080 --> 1:16:18.240 And so we're gonna look at the push for the 1:16:18.360 --> 1:16:23.360 legalization of gay marriage and then the legalization of weed. Okay, 1:16:24.520 --> 1:16:29.479 now those are long running Those are long running disputes, 1:16:29.920 --> 1:16:33.040 but something happened, But something happened, and they hit like 1:16:33.200 --> 1:16:36.920 a they hit like a moment, and just like they 1:16:37.000 --> 1:16:39.040 hit a moment where it became kind of bipartisan. 1:16:39.240 --> 1:16:41.040 Yep, that's what I'm hoping for. 1:16:41.360 --> 1:16:44.080 Yeah, but here's the rup. I want to talk about 1:16:44.080 --> 1:16:45.400 those movements for a little bit. Then I want to 1:16:45.400 --> 1:16:47.760 tell you why I think that what you're engaging is 1:16:47.800 --> 1:16:54.679 more complicated because these were these were like fairly simple asks. Right, Okay. 1:16:55.640 --> 1:16:59.879 The way the way gay marriage got over the threshold 1:17:00.360 --> 1:17:04.240 was it wasn't like, this isn't about special privilege, right, 1:17:05.760 --> 1:17:08.360 This isn't about this isn't like part of some zero 1:17:08.560 --> 1:17:11.160 something we're going to take away something from someone to 1:17:11.240 --> 1:17:15.920 give it to somebody else. This isn't like we're not 1:17:16.040 --> 1:17:18.599 really asking the government to bend over backward on too 1:17:18.680 --> 1:17:21.840 much here. It's just there's a thing. It's like this 1:17:22.000 --> 1:17:27.320 symbolic gesture that we feel should be kind of applied 1:17:27.360 --> 1:17:30.160 to all Americans and like and then to the right 1:17:30.360 --> 1:17:34.599 on the right, you'd say, and really, remember, what business 1:17:34.840 --> 1:17:38.559 is it of yours? What business is it of the government? 1:17:38.680 --> 1:17:41.400 Who I decide to marry? Like? Do you really think 1:17:41.520 --> 1:17:45.479 the government should tell you who to marry? And eventually 1:17:45.600 --> 1:17:49.559 got where you had. You had this kind of leftist idea, 1:17:50.360 --> 1:17:55.040 and the right merged onto it. They had an easy 1:17:55.120 --> 1:17:58.000 way to merge on because it was like if you'd 1:17:58.040 --> 1:18:00.679 gone back, my dad was very conservative, got back, asked 1:18:00.720 --> 1:18:04.160 my dad, he would have said, but it's none of 1:18:04.200 --> 1:18:07.880 my business, right, what you know, what what that guy's 1:18:07.880 --> 1:18:10.479 going to do in his house nothing to do with me, Right, 1:18:10.680 --> 1:18:12.799 I don't have to love it. It's not my business 1:18:13.800 --> 1:18:15.960 that that became a thing, and like, and that's when 1:18:16.000 --> 1:18:19.519 that went legal. Weed a long running left issue and 1:18:19.640 --> 1:18:21.680 it eventually became it's kind of even hard to get 1:18:21.680 --> 1:18:23.280 to it, but it kind of became like a little 1:18:23.320 --> 1:18:25.400 bit of a it's a plant that goes out of 1:18:25.439 --> 1:18:29.639 the ground. I mean, can you really have a bunch 1:18:29.640 --> 1:18:32.400 of rules about a plant that grows into your garden? Right? 1:18:33.000 --> 1:18:37.240 And A, Hey, what that guy's doing is you know 1:18:37.800 --> 1:18:39.960 what he's doing in his own house? Is it really 1:18:40.000 --> 1:18:43.000 my business? And no one can really demonstrate to me 1:18:43.080 --> 1:18:45.080 that it's more destructive than alcohol. It seems like when 1:18:45.080 --> 1:18:49.200 you look at the stats like domestic disputes, vehicle crashes, 1:18:49.640 --> 1:18:51.599 like booze ain't the best thing in the world, now, 1:18:51.800 --> 1:18:53.719 is it really like there's less that goes into making 1:18:53.760 --> 1:18:54.519 weed than booze? 1:18:55.160 --> 1:18:57.680 There's also a safety argument, right, like wouldn't you rather 1:18:57.760 --> 1:18:59.519 have it be monitored by the government not have it 1:18:59.560 --> 1:19:01.360 be e leg coming in? I mean, I had a 1:19:01.360 --> 1:19:04.400 friend in high school who had like fentanyl in the 1:19:04.479 --> 1:19:08.560 weed because it was illegal, and he died. So that 1:19:08.760 --> 1:19:11.880 that you know, that's the argument that people make too. 1:19:12.080 --> 1:19:14.599 So yeah, there's plenty of arguments to more of people 1:19:14.680 --> 1:19:15.200 together there. 1:19:15.439 --> 1:19:18.400 But these things, these things that I've marveled at, like 1:19:18.479 --> 1:19:21.719 in my lifetime, yep, in the end, were real clean 1:19:22.320 --> 1:19:27.800 and they were like an issue. Public lands becomes like 1:19:27.880 --> 1:19:30.960 a clean issue. But to call for a sort of 1:19:33.120 --> 1:19:41.160 expansive kind of umbrella of environmental concern is bigger because 1:19:41.880 --> 1:19:44.920 people would say like, well, what's the ask, and you'd 1:19:44.920 --> 1:19:48.000 be like, it's a lot of asks all the time. 1:19:48.880 --> 1:19:50.360 That's a great way of putting in it, you know, 1:19:50.560 --> 1:19:52.280 And it's harder, It is way harder, but I think 1:19:52.320 --> 1:19:55.799 it's worth it because you're gonna have different stakeholders engaging 1:19:55.840 --> 1:19:57.840 in different parts of it, like the water stakeholders might 1:19:57.880 --> 1:20:01.839 be different than the forest stakeholders, but but very similar 1:20:01.880 --> 1:20:05.320 to those issues. There is an easy on ramp for 1:20:05.479 --> 1:20:09.000 every political identity to care, whether that be for national 1:20:09.080 --> 1:20:13.160 security or for jobs, or for moral high ground, or 1:20:13.320 --> 1:20:16.479 for just carry about your local community, or for carrying 1:20:16.479 --> 1:20:20.120 about nationals. You know, our national identity and legacy and heritage, 1:20:20.320 --> 1:20:24.519 like protecting, conserving, taking care of our environment intersects with 1:20:24.640 --> 1:20:28.679 everyone's political views in a very similar way to those issues. 1:20:29.000 --> 1:20:32.320 Because that's not actually true on immigration as easily. It's 1:20:32.360 --> 1:20:35.040 not as easy it on guns, right, Like those are 1:20:35.200 --> 1:20:37.840 core parts and what on ramp are you going to 1:20:37.920 --> 1:20:40.560 create between those issues from both sides. I don't know 1:20:40.600 --> 1:20:44.040 how we solve those, right, But the environment might have 1:20:44.200 --> 1:20:47.559 more variables to it, because it's not just one policy 1:20:47.600 --> 1:20:48.880 that you're trying to get to legalize it. 1:20:49.040 --> 1:20:49.600 Legalize it. 1:20:50.040 --> 1:20:51.280 Yeah, It's not like you can go like, okay, we 1:20:51.360 --> 1:20:52.960 did it in that state, that we're going to do 1:20:52.960 --> 1:20:54.840 it in that state, right, and eventually it'll be that 1:20:54.880 --> 1:20:56.160 we got like forty nine states. 1:20:56.360 --> 1:20:56.479 Right. 1:20:57.400 --> 1:20:59.800 This is not a one trick pony movement that we're 1:20:59.800 --> 1:21:04.120 trying to create. And you look, this approach needs to 1:21:04.200 --> 1:21:07.920 be applied to situations. Applied to the public land sell off, 1:21:08.479 --> 1:21:10.880 and we were three months old and obviously so many 1:21:10.920 --> 1:21:14.240 great organizations worked on that. We showed that it was 1:21:14.240 --> 1:21:17.479 at least possible on that applied to that. But if 1:21:17.479 --> 1:21:21.720 you apply that same group of people to restore in 1:21:21.920 --> 1:21:24.040 Utah or restoring the Great Salt Lake, I think we 1:21:24.280 --> 1:21:25.920 do a lot better of a job at restoring the 1:21:25.960 --> 1:21:29.479 Great Salt Lake. But right now there's no knowledge, but 1:21:29.600 --> 1:21:33.760 everyone in Salt Lake Vicinity wants to restore the Great 1:21:33.800 --> 1:21:36.240 Salt Lake. Yet nothing is really being done about it 1:21:36.439 --> 1:21:39.200 because everyone's focused on other political culture war issues and 1:21:39.280 --> 1:21:42.080 there's no mobilized cultural movement across the party lines to 1:21:42.280 --> 1:21:44.680 get something done. So you apply it to that, or 1:21:44.720 --> 1:21:47.559 you apply it to Oh my god, wildfires are getting 1:21:47.560 --> 1:21:49.880 worse and worse, mega fires are getting worse every summer, 1:21:50.040 --> 1:21:51.639 not only in the United States but around the world. 1:21:52.479 --> 1:21:55.840 Apply that to that issue, and so some stakeholders might 1:21:55.880 --> 1:21:58.880 drop off, some might come on. But it's the same 1:21:59.280 --> 1:22:02.960 on ramp where people have different whys, different reasons for caring, 1:22:03.280 --> 1:22:05.400 but they care about the same end goal and they 1:22:05.439 --> 1:22:09.599 have the exact same end goal, less wildfires. Who wants 1:22:09.640 --> 1:22:12.080 to create a policy that creates more wildfires in this country, 1:22:12.360 --> 1:22:15.320 I don't know anybody. So in the way of getting there, 1:22:15.840 --> 1:22:19.040 the vast majority of people actually would agree on if 1:22:19.120 --> 1:22:21.040 we actually had the chance to debate it, but right 1:22:21.080 --> 1:22:24.640 now we're not. So I agree it's way harder, but 1:22:24.720 --> 1:22:28.160 it's worth it, and I think it's worth it to 1:22:28.280 --> 1:22:31.160 pursue that rather than having a disjointed movement where the 1:22:31.200 --> 1:22:34.240 pendulum swings back and forth every four years on a 1:22:34.320 --> 1:22:39.120 subject like Biden puts in all these massive conservation preservation 1:22:39.720 --> 1:22:42.360 restrictions and public land deals and all this stuff, and 1:22:42.360 --> 1:22:44.360 then Trump undoes it. People are like, oh, it's just 1:22:44.400 --> 1:22:49.080 a Trump problem. No, we need durable, durable conservation solutions 1:22:49.200 --> 1:22:51.080 in five years and ten years and fifteen years. No 1:22:51.160 --> 1:22:52.160 matter where the country heads. 1:22:52.200 --> 1:22:52.560 We don't know. 1:22:52.920 --> 1:22:54.760 It could be advance, it could be a new sum, 1:22:54.840 --> 1:22:57.040 it could be nobody that we've even been talking about. Right, 1:22:57.479 --> 1:23:00.960 but at some point we have to have some consistency 1:23:01.280 --> 1:23:05.000 because the lack of consistency is killing our environment, and 1:23:05.120 --> 1:23:10.200 it's and it's refusing, it's we are deferring any policy 1:23:10.439 --> 1:23:13.960 from getting done because of that disconnect. 1:23:14.080 --> 1:23:16.040 So it is harder, but I think it's worth it. 1:23:17.000 --> 1:23:18.880 And I don't have all the answers today, but hopefully 1:23:18.920 --> 1:23:20.400 in ten years we'll have this conversation. 1:23:20.520 --> 1:23:21.680 We'll have made a lot of progress there. 1:23:21.880 --> 1:23:22.080 Let me. 1:23:23.600 --> 1:23:24.160 Offer a. 1:23:26.200 --> 1:23:28.880 Probably a poor analogy, and you can tell me how 1:23:30.320 --> 1:23:31.040 accurate it is. 1:23:31.360 --> 1:23:33.120 Can I raid it too? Absolutely? 1:23:33.360 --> 1:23:33.960 Five stars? 1:23:34.479 --> 1:23:39.240 Absolutely, Like when you're talking about building cultural momentum and 1:23:39.960 --> 1:23:43.160 having something where people on both sides can approach it 1:23:43.200 --> 1:23:46.880 from their own angle, I'm wondering if you're and I 1:23:46.960 --> 1:23:50.479 don't this might sound stupid and maybe dismissive, but you're 1:23:50.520 --> 1:23:52.519 trying to like you're essentially saying, I want to make 1:23:52.640 --> 1:23:55.360 caring for the environment, like support the troops. 1:23:55.760 --> 1:23:58.160 Yes, Like no, that is not dismissive. 1:23:58.160 --> 1:24:01.760 That is exactly because like five stars, there's because every 1:24:02.200 --> 1:24:06.160 every politician is going to say that they support the troops, 1:24:06.479 --> 1:24:08.439 and they're going to lean into it as as sort 1:24:08.479 --> 1:24:13.160 of part of their mantle of legitimacy. Democrat who supports 1:24:13.200 --> 1:24:17.360 the troops might vote for mental health counseling for veterans 1:24:17.439 --> 1:24:22.000 and and research on on you know, like PTSD things 1:24:22.120 --> 1:24:26.960 like that. Maybe they are pushing for greater equality in 1:24:27.120 --> 1:24:31.559 different like you know, combat roles whatever. A Republican who 1:24:31.600 --> 1:24:35.960 supports the troops might vote for funding for extra you know, 1:24:36.080 --> 1:24:38.080 like like make sure the troops have what they need 1:24:38.320 --> 1:24:39.040 to fight the wars. 1:24:39.080 --> 1:24:41.920 We send them to armored doors on their humbes, armored 1:24:41.960 --> 1:24:43.559 doors on their humbes, right, And like. 1:24:45.520 --> 1:24:49.040 Obviously, I mean I feel like there's part of there's 1:24:49.080 --> 1:24:51.280 part of me that when I hear someone say I 1:24:51.400 --> 1:24:54.160 support the troops, I'm kind of like, well, that's brave 1:24:54.240 --> 1:24:57.599 of you, you know, like, but it's good politics. 1:24:57.920 --> 1:25:01.080 And space where both sides are to support them. 1:25:01.320 --> 1:25:07.400 Because Nixon, I mean, Nixon has all this huge environmental legacy, 1:25:07.720 --> 1:25:10.479 and and you could read it one way and say, like, god, 1:25:10.520 --> 1:25:12.519 I didn't know he cared so much about the environment. 1:25:13.080 --> 1:25:16.160 But really Nixon didn't give He didn't he didn't care 1:25:16.160 --> 1:25:18.760 about the environment. He just was like, boy, this is 1:25:18.800 --> 1:25:21.679 a powerful horse to hitch to my wagon. 1:25:21.800 --> 1:25:21.920 Right. 1:25:22.600 --> 1:25:25.719 So that's that's that's sort of the analogy that occurred 1:25:25.760 --> 1:25:29.920 to me as you're talking. It's it's making this sort 1:25:29.920 --> 1:25:33.400 of a cultural plank of America that everybody's got to 1:25:33.439 --> 1:25:35.040 have that feather in their hat if they want to 1:25:35.080 --> 1:25:38.160 throw their throw said hat into the arena. 1:25:39.320 --> 1:25:41.839 To make this a really messy metaphor. 1:25:42.040 --> 1:25:42.519 Five star. 1:25:42.880 --> 1:25:47.800 No, I like the metaphor, but I think that and 1:25:47.920 --> 1:25:50.040 I get the point supporting the troops. You could say, oh, no, 1:25:50.160 --> 1:25:52.760 I support the troops. We should bring them home, right, 1:25:52.880 --> 1:25:54.920 and some guys like, oh no, no, I support the troops. 1:25:55.400 --> 1:25:56.840 We should send them. Got to give them with they 1:25:56.880 --> 1:25:59.479 need to send them advanced munitions. Yeah, right, Like you 1:25:59.560 --> 1:26:00.599 both get the carried around. 1:26:01.600 --> 1:26:02.960 But I agree with that. 1:26:03.520 --> 1:26:07.040 But the troops are one of the few topics where 1:26:07.040 --> 1:26:09.240 both sides actually sit down and have a conversation now though, 1:26:09.560 --> 1:26:11.679 even though it's not pretty and they don't always agree, 1:26:11.880 --> 1:26:13.920 and I'm not expecting that this is not some kumbai 1:26:13.960 --> 1:26:17.240 a shit, but eighty percent of the time there's actually 1:26:17.240 --> 1:26:20.240 a lot of agreement. So, but that's not being facilitated. 1:26:20.960 --> 1:26:23.439 If there's agreement on troops in our military, they're at 1:26:23.520 --> 1:26:26.280 least having that conversation because they feel like it's part 1:26:26.280 --> 1:26:29.840 of the American national identity. And of course there's extraneous 1:26:29.880 --> 1:26:32.920 times where they totally see differently, right, and that's going 1:26:33.000 --> 1:26:35.799 to happen, and that did happen when Richard Nixon was president. 1:26:35.880 --> 1:26:35.960 Right. 1:26:36.000 --> 1:26:38.160 There are people who thought Richard Nixon didn't go far enough, 1:26:38.400 --> 1:26:39.800 and there are people who thought he'd went too far. 1:26:39.960 --> 1:26:43.559 Sure, but stuff got done, and that was. 1:26:43.640 --> 1:26:46.800 Farmers feed America. It would be the platform that I 1:26:46.840 --> 1:26:50.799 think is the most applicable, is like everybody loves farmers 1:26:51.000 --> 1:26:54.599 and that is the thing that feeds us and large 1:26:54.640 --> 1:26:59.679 part secures our country. We don't have to import stuff 1:26:59.720 --> 1:27:02.760 from all these other countries if we really focused on 1:27:02.960 --> 1:27:08.360 farmers feeding America. But those ecosystems are the most rapidly 1:27:08.479 --> 1:27:12.519 disappearing ecosystems on the planet, let alone in the United States. 1:27:13.960 --> 1:27:17.200 Here in Montana, we lost a million acres of farm 1:27:17.240 --> 1:27:20.640 and ranch ground over the last year, sorry, over the 1:27:20.720 --> 1:27:27.719 last three years. And like, if you take a chunk 1:27:27.760 --> 1:27:31.200 of grazing ground in Oklahoma and look at the interests 1:27:31.280 --> 1:27:34.000 that want that grazing ground, yep, despite the fact that 1:27:34.320 --> 1:27:37.519 every fricking politician is like, farmers feed America, God bless 1:27:37.520 --> 1:27:42.759 the farmers. Right, it's like the last week in uh Foot. 1:27:42.960 --> 1:27:44.760 Let me but let me rush back on that. 1:27:45.040 --> 1:27:49.720 There's there's probably elected officials from urban burrows in New 1:27:49.840 --> 1:27:53.040 York that don't get questions about farmers. 1:27:52.720 --> 1:27:56.599 Totally, like yet they're eating their food right. 1:27:56.720 --> 1:28:00.880 Like like it's that's something where people would be like, oh, sure, 1:28:01.000 --> 1:28:03.600 but that's not really what my constituents set me here for. 1:28:04.160 --> 1:28:07.360 There's nobody who's like, do you support the troops, and 1:28:07.360 --> 1:28:09.439 they're like, it's not. 1:28:09.520 --> 1:28:10.680 Really name one. 1:28:10.880 --> 1:28:13.200 Yeah, I'm just not involved in that, you know, Like 1:28:13.600 --> 1:28:16.799 everybody's like, yes, absolutely. 1:28:17.840 --> 1:28:20.440 Right, name one troop. 1:28:21.520 --> 1:28:24.400 Like like that that's an issue I feel like where 1:28:24.520 --> 1:28:28.280 no one can, no politician can sort of step out 1:28:28.320 --> 1:28:30.760 of line and no one can ignore it or say 1:28:30.840 --> 1:28:32.280 like it's I'm focused on this. 1:28:32.479 --> 1:28:35.439 I'm focused on this and they're like, no one. 1:28:35.320 --> 1:28:37.479 Would respond to do you support the troops and be like, well, really, 1:28:37.479 --> 1:28:41.880 I'm focused on transportation an infrastructure. 1:28:42.680 --> 1:28:44.479 You can pivot easier with that. But I think it's 1:28:44.520 --> 1:28:48.960 like if you're AOC as an extreme example, there are 1:28:49.160 --> 1:28:51.560 serious environmental issues in New York City and with the 1:28:51.680 --> 1:28:57.120 Hudson River. You know, if you're Wisconsin Senator, the water 1:28:57.720 --> 1:29:01.879 you know, aquifers sinking and having the Mississippi get destroyed 1:29:01.920 --> 1:29:05.000 by runoff is an issue, but that doesn't really matter 1:29:05.040 --> 1:29:08.160 to New York. But like it's I think that's where 1:29:08.160 --> 1:29:10.320 we've lost it is. It's like the environmental movement in 1:29:10.439 --> 1:29:15.240 general has also hurt the hunting and angling community because 1:29:15.240 --> 1:29:18.160 it's always been about for the last twenty years, polar bears, 1:29:19.240 --> 1:29:25.880 climate change, energy, like things that don't really impact the 1:29:25.960 --> 1:29:29.240 local community. That every local community has really their own 1:29:29.520 --> 1:29:32.720 environmental issue and they truly don't care too much. Like 1:29:33.120 --> 1:29:36.960 in Arizona. In Scottsdale, where I live, they truly could 1:29:37.000 --> 1:29:39.920 not care less about farmers. Should they care, probably, but 1:29:40.160 --> 1:29:42.960 like they don't. They care about water quality and access, 1:29:43.080 --> 1:29:45.960 and they care about the smog that's getting worse. So 1:29:47.400 --> 1:29:50.640 as but as a country, we shit, we share a 1:29:50.680 --> 1:29:54.320 different reason for caring, but we all share the caring 1:29:54.600 --> 1:29:56.560 part because we know we rely on it. So I 1:29:56.640 --> 1:29:59.519 agree that like tagging farmers in is part of it, 1:30:00.320 --> 1:30:02.799 but it needs to be a part of like local 1:30:03.120 --> 1:30:07.080 community ownership. And people feel like there's no way to 1:30:07.120 --> 1:30:09.360 get involved because it's like this issue is too big, 1:30:09.479 --> 1:30:12.600 climate change, polar bears, that's not like my thing. What 1:30:12.680 --> 1:30:17.200 if everyone was able to activate and advocate for the 1:30:17.360 --> 1:30:19.839 issues that they cared about in their own local community 1:30:20.120 --> 1:30:22.160 in a better way that felt more tangible, that felt 1:30:22.200 --> 1:30:25.960 more realistic. And the vision that I have is for 1:30:27.240 --> 1:30:28.840 if you live in the Great Salt Lake area, you 1:30:28.920 --> 1:30:31.519 can advocate for that across party lines and actually get 1:30:31.560 --> 1:30:34.640 something done for that, because that's what's affecting you. If 1:30:34.680 --> 1:30:36.920 you're a big part of the country that has agriculture 1:30:36.960 --> 1:30:40.120 and farming and you're worried about water quality and the 1:30:40.240 --> 1:30:43.240 lack of crops that you can get now because the 1:30:43.479 --> 1:30:46.360 substance in the soil is so bad, like then you 1:30:46.400 --> 1:30:49.439 can advocate for that, But right now there's nothing kind 1:30:49.479 --> 1:30:52.519 of that holistic view like there would be on troops, 1:30:52.640 --> 1:30:55.360 Like troops is very complex too, actually, right there's so 1:30:55.479 --> 1:30:58.280 many different variables there, but there's a culture around it 1:30:58.400 --> 1:31:00.680 that kind of forces people to face You're some sort 1:31:00.720 --> 1:31:03.160 of solution out and that's that's kind of the vision. 1:31:04.520 --> 1:31:06.479 A difference between you and me is that you thought 1:31:06.520 --> 1:31:09.040 about something and then did it and and and I 1:31:09.120 --> 1:31:11.000 thought about this and never did it. But I'll share 1:31:11.040 --> 1:31:11.240 with you. 1:31:13.600 --> 1:31:15.679 I eat another piece of at. 1:31:15.600 --> 1:31:19.559 A point, please. At a point, I realized that there's 1:31:19.600 --> 1:31:26.000 like a way I think about the environment that isn't 1:31:26.120 --> 1:31:30.800 shared by the environmental movement. And I realized that this 1:31:30.880 --> 1:31:33.280 way I think about it is actually shared by a 1:31:33.360 --> 1:31:36.560 lot of friends of mine. Is that I have a 1:31:36.720 --> 1:31:40.080 sort of there's there's a bit of a like a 1:31:40.720 --> 1:31:46.880 nationalism and a patriotism yes to a view on the 1:31:46.960 --> 1:31:51.639 American landscape. You know, Like a friend of mine was like, whatever, 1:31:51.680 --> 1:31:53.240 he's going fishing with his kid. He's like, you think 1:31:53.240 --> 1:31:58.240 they're doing this with Tyran, you know, just joking. Perhaps 1:31:58.280 --> 1:32:02.960 they are, but just joking meaning he like it's like, uh, 1:32:03.840 --> 1:32:08.000 he kind of views it like America the beautiful Yes, yeah, 1:32:08.200 --> 1:32:08.880 do you follow me? 1:32:09.080 --> 1:32:09.240 Yes? 1:32:09.560 --> 1:32:11.880 And there was there was times I think it was 1:32:11.920 --> 1:32:14.439 like maybe like the last election cycle or whatever. There 1:32:14.520 --> 1:32:18.040 was times I was like, man, I should find some 1:32:18.280 --> 1:32:21.200 better way of articulating this thing that I think is 1:32:21.640 --> 1:32:25.120 kind of widely held where people have a sense of 1:32:25.280 --> 1:32:29.200 American pride about the American environment. 1:32:29.800 --> 1:32:32.680 That is exactly you know, and you look at like 1:32:32.800 --> 1:32:36.439 Yellowstone the show, Right, People didn't watch that because this 1:32:36.520 --> 1:32:39.160 show is just good. It was because it evoked an 1:32:39.200 --> 1:32:42.479 emotional connection to Americana in a way where it's like, 1:32:42.560 --> 1:32:45.360 I'm proud of the fact that we have places that 1:32:45.479 --> 1:32:49.040 look that beautiful. And every if you go into a 1:32:49.080 --> 1:32:52.400 Member of Congress's office, no matter if it's Marjorie Taylor 1:32:52.439 --> 1:32:55.880 Green or AOC, the first pictures on the walls are 1:32:55.960 --> 1:32:58.840 of their natural beauty in their districts, right, Like, there 1:32:58.920 --> 1:33:01.639 is an immense pride that Americans have in our environment. 1:33:02.080 --> 1:33:04.160 This fall, we're going to launch a campaign called United 1:33:04.200 --> 1:33:07.160 by Nature? United by Nature? 1:33:07.280 --> 1:33:09.200 Can you call it? Don't ship Up America. 1:33:10.200 --> 1:33:13.920 That'll be our secondary That'll be the secondary slogan, and 1:33:13.960 --> 1:33:17.000 we let people use which one they like more. But 1:33:18.120 --> 1:33:21.040 we have America's two and fifty anniversary next year. I 1:33:21.120 --> 1:33:25.680 would argue that America, in our conservation legacy is the 1:33:25.720 --> 1:33:28.760 best in the world. I would also argue that it's 1:33:28.880 --> 1:33:32.559 incredibly at risk right now for the first time at 1:33:32.680 --> 1:33:34.680 least to this severity in a very long time. 1:33:34.800 --> 1:33:36.000 Can you, when you get a minute, can you touch 1:33:36.040 --> 1:33:37.479 on a couple of those points about. 1:33:37.240 --> 1:33:37.960 What I'm worried about. 1:33:38.280 --> 1:33:38.479 Yeah. 1:33:38.600 --> 1:33:43.720 Yeah, Americans are so proud of the natural environment. We 1:33:43.800 --> 1:33:45.599 have to tap into that. So what I'm worried about. 1:33:47.920 --> 1:33:51.919 National parks are in massive maintenance debt. We're having conversations 1:33:52.000 --> 1:33:56.160 constantly about selling off public lands for development, which doesn't 1:33:56.240 --> 1:34:01.760 solve affordability at all. And the people who are perpetuating 1:34:01.840 --> 1:34:06.599 that know that wildlife issues are becoming worse. Chronic wasting, disease, 1:34:06.600 --> 1:34:09.520 in ages species like these things are not getting better necessarily, 1:34:09.640 --> 1:34:14.760 especially invasive species. I mean, water quality is going down. 1:34:15.000 --> 1:34:18.400 Microplastics are a ninety four percent of tested water that 1:34:18.479 --> 1:34:22.040 we drink, and the water quality in our rivers is 1:34:22.479 --> 1:34:26.280 getting infinitely worse every single year. Megafires are on the 1:34:26.400 --> 1:34:30.760 rise in this country, and things like the Great Salt Lake, 1:34:32.840 --> 1:34:38.160 the watersheds, the aquifers below the farms, these are all 1:34:38.240 --> 1:34:42.439 problems that are getting infinitely worse too. And at some 1:34:42.560 --> 1:34:44.560 point we're already starting to see the impacts of this. 1:34:44.680 --> 1:34:44.800 Right. 1:34:44.920 --> 1:34:48.280 Air quality issues in the summer with the fires, farmers 1:34:48.360 --> 1:34:52.320 having tons of issues, flooding getting worse, not just because 1:34:52.320 --> 1:34:55.439 of quote Unico climate change, but also because of the 1:34:55.520 --> 1:34:57.680 fact that the ecosystems that help prevent a lot of 1:34:58.000 --> 1:35:00.680 hurricanes and stuff the damage from the hurricane have now 1:35:00.720 --> 1:35:03.680 been destroyed, so there's not these natural barriers. So we 1:35:03.880 --> 1:35:10.000 have massive problems. And yet the government, the Biden administration 1:35:10.080 --> 1:35:12.280 didn't focus on this at all. They focused on them 1:35:12.360 --> 1:35:16.760 like climate and energy and infrastructure and evs, but until 1:35:16.880 --> 1:35:18.680 kind of the final hour, they didn't even really talk 1:35:18.720 --> 1:35:23.559 about this conservation or preservation or anything with the natural landscape. Yeah, 1:35:24.320 --> 1:35:28.599 and Trump's whole approaches. I will to undo everything because 1:35:28.760 --> 1:35:30.280 it's gone too far and it's wrong and whatever, but 1:35:30.320 --> 1:35:32.120 we're not going to replace it with anything. I never 1:35:32.200 --> 1:35:34.120 liked that guy, because I never liked that guy. But 1:35:34.280 --> 1:35:35.920 he's not just doing stuff that Biden did. He's not 1:35:36.000 --> 1:35:38.160 just undoing some Biden did. He's undoing stuff that Nixon 1:35:38.160 --> 1:35:40.040 did and George W. Bush did and Clinton did. 1:35:44.600 --> 1:35:48.000 What I point out to people often, right is I'm like, 1:35:48.760 --> 1:35:52.720 there's always the other side right, participating in this, right, 1:35:53.000 --> 1:35:58.320 Like even when there's a supermajority. Yeah, pick your supermajority. Right, 1:35:58.479 --> 1:36:03.600 but there's right now, there's Democrats in the room. They're 1:36:03.680 --> 1:36:06.280 not going home. They're not like, okay, well we'll see 1:36:06.280 --> 1:36:06.960 you in four years. 1:36:07.520 --> 1:36:07.640 Right. 1:36:07.720 --> 1:36:11.879 There's always that non partisan aspect in there. One side's 1:36:12.040 --> 1:36:13.720 ultimately going to have like a final say. 1:36:14.560 --> 1:36:18.120 But you know, it's like people are trying and on. 1:36:18.200 --> 1:36:21.559 The public lands issue too, it's like, well, thanks for calling, 1:36:21.640 --> 1:36:26.439 but we defer to the eleven Western states, right. You know, 1:36:26.600 --> 1:36:29.240 they're be a Democrat or Republican, they're the ones that 1:36:29.400 --> 1:36:32.720 have the knowledge, and so we're going to listen to them. 1:36:33.200 --> 1:36:33.360 Right. 1:36:35.200 --> 1:36:37.680 And that's just like something that people need to be 1:36:37.800 --> 1:36:42.840 reminded of, right, because it all gets shackled onto, you know, 1:36:43.120 --> 1:36:44.639 kind of who's in power at that time. 1:36:44.920 --> 1:36:47.400 Yes, but I think on a quick diversion, I just 1:36:47.439 --> 1:36:50.960 want to say thank you to you guys, because first 1:36:50.960 --> 1:36:54.479 of all, I think between you and me and a 1:36:54.560 --> 1:36:57.880 couple of others in the non elected space, we are 1:36:57.920 --> 1:37:02.080 blamed for killing that horrible idea to sell off the 1:37:02.120 --> 1:37:06.120 three million acres. It didn't matter that Patagonia took a 1:37:06.160 --> 1:37:08.320 stance against the public lands at all. The sell off 1:37:08.640 --> 1:37:10.560 didn't matter that Sierra Club did that didn't move the 1:37:10.640 --> 1:37:12.439 needle at all. In fact, it probably hurt that they 1:37:12.520 --> 1:37:16.880 weren't engaged. It mattered because center left, center and center 1:37:16.960 --> 1:37:21.160 right voters who were largely in your communities Joe Rogan's 1:37:21.200 --> 1:37:25.640 community campaign's community and in our community were saying no, 1:37:26.200 --> 1:37:29.080 hands off. Because that's the broad coal that's the power 1:37:29.120 --> 1:37:32.000 of a broad coalition, because no matter what the moment is, 1:37:32.120 --> 1:37:34.920 you're meeting it. Then, right, you're meeting the moment because 1:37:34.920 --> 1:37:36.720 you have the broad coalition. And it's nice that the 1:37:36.840 --> 1:37:39.040 people in California were saying things, and it's nice that 1:37:39.080 --> 1:37:41.600 the people in Washington didn't like they should. But that 1:37:41.720 --> 1:37:43.599 didn't move the needle on that one. But maybe it'll 1:37:43.640 --> 1:37:44.880 move the needle on a different one. 1:37:45.000 --> 1:37:48.160 Right, Maybe if I tell my family something and my 1:37:48.280 --> 1:37:50.960 kids get real mad, and then also my wife's mad, 1:37:56.200 --> 1:37:56.799 she's mad. 1:37:57.960 --> 1:38:01.120 Exactly exactly, And so I want to thank you for 1:38:01.200 --> 1:38:03.840 that in the areas where you know, quote unquote didn't 1:38:03.880 --> 1:38:05.120 make an impact, right, like the. 1:38:06.720 --> 1:38:10.559 Rosy picture of the idea, right is it's building equity, yes, right, 1:38:10.960 --> 1:38:13.800 and there's going to be this like alarm bells went off? 1:38:14.439 --> 1:38:15.519 Right, why is that? 1:38:15.640 --> 1:38:16.799 What's the deal with this issue? 1:38:17.360 --> 1:38:17.400 No? 1:38:17.520 --> 1:38:18.519 And it's all very important. 1:38:18.560 --> 1:38:22.479 I already said I support the troops. Right, people are 1:38:22.479 --> 1:38:25.040 still looking at me weird what's going on. 1:38:25.760 --> 1:38:27.720 But that's that's the power of this broad coalition. So 1:38:27.760 --> 1:38:31.080 I just say that to say also, that's how like 1:38:31.479 --> 1:38:33.120 in the future, it will be different states that are 1:38:33.160 --> 1:38:35.880 relevant for different environmental initiatives and will need those people 1:38:35.920 --> 1:38:38.960 there too. So but you know, there's some really good 1:38:39.040 --> 1:38:42.519 people there like Martin Heinrich and Tim Sheehy and you 1:38:42.600 --> 1:38:46.840 know Crapo and Danes and who care about conservation and 1:38:46.920 --> 1:38:50.160 there's overlap with this idea, but they also don't have 1:38:50.200 --> 1:38:52.200 a lot of space to work within, like they they 1:38:52.360 --> 1:38:55.080 they all actually, whether they want to publicly acknowledge this 1:38:55.240 --> 1:38:59.320 or not, they really were happy about the pushback because 1:38:59.360 --> 1:39:02.719 it gave them the ability to do what they actually 1:39:02.800 --> 1:39:06.200 wanted to do, right like, especially for a Republican A 1:39:06.280 --> 1:39:08.960 lot of Republicans. I know for a fact that there 1:39:09.000 --> 1:39:12.120 were about sixteen other Republican senators who wanted to stand 1:39:12.200 --> 1:39:14.439 up against the public man sell Off, but they didn't 1:39:14.439 --> 1:39:18.640 feel like it was politically helpful to do so. And 1:39:20.360 --> 1:39:22.559 until they feel like there's that space to step out 1:39:22.640 --> 1:39:25.040 and say, actually, this is not only what I don't want, 1:39:25.080 --> 1:39:27.960 but it's also what my voters don't want. They're going 1:39:28.000 --> 1:39:30.800 to be more gun shy. And you look at the 1:39:30.960 --> 1:39:33.280 senators who spoke out. We all knew that they didn't 1:39:33.280 --> 1:39:35.559 want this to happen from the get go, but because 1:39:35.600 --> 1:39:37.559 there were so many voters saying they didn't want it too, 1:39:37.840 --> 1:39:40.800 then they're like, well, now I can justify speaking out. 1:39:41.520 --> 1:39:44.160 That's kind of American democracy at work in a time 1:39:44.200 --> 1:39:46.639 when people are just don't really speaking out about things 1:39:46.720 --> 1:39:49.439 other than the radical extremes. So that's where like the 1:39:49.520 --> 1:39:51.960 rational middle standing together to say, oh, we support the troops, 1:39:52.000 --> 1:39:54.879 Oh we support the environment and conservation. It gives space 1:39:55.400 --> 1:39:57.080 for not just the Heinrix and the ones who are 1:39:57.120 --> 1:40:00.799 always going to be willing to put their like Martin Heinrich, 1:40:00.880 --> 1:40:01.599 who we all love. 1:40:02.080 --> 1:40:03.240 I think maybe I don't know. 1:40:03.600 --> 1:40:07.439 I love him. No, I like him. I like him personally, Yes, 1:40:08.479 --> 1:40:10.920 he's a rare I like him personally, Yes. And I 1:40:11.040 --> 1:40:15.160 appreciate his constant advocacy on behalf of public lands. Yes. 1:40:15.240 --> 1:40:21.799 And I appreciate that he of many things I appreciate. 1:40:21.840 --> 1:40:24.200 I appreciate that he is willing to be like a 1:40:24.320 --> 1:40:28.960 very outspoken hunter right, and a yeah in a in 1:40:29.080 --> 1:40:31.720 a in a a in a political party where that's 1:40:31.800 --> 1:40:34.360 not always the most uh, it's not always the most 1:40:34.400 --> 1:40:35.479 welcome identity to have. 1:40:35.800 --> 1:40:38.000 And Tim Sheehy, when I've had conversations with him, will 1:40:38.000 --> 1:40:41.960 be like Montana cares more about conservation and the outdoors 1:40:42.000 --> 1:40:45.760 than you know any other place, you know, arguably, and 1:40:45.840 --> 1:40:47.560 so I I have to lead on this, but I 1:40:47.600 --> 1:40:51.400 also want to both of those two gentlemen go against 1:40:51.400 --> 1:40:52.720 the grain in a lot of ways of what they're 1:40:52.760 --> 1:40:54.080 quote unquote supposed to do. 1:40:54.880 --> 1:40:56.960 There's very few leaders like that in d C. 1:40:57.479 --> 1:40:59.760 Right, Like, that's the world that I'm you know, really 1:41:00.080 --> 1:41:04.880 unfortunately familiar with, and we need to give space not 1:41:05.040 --> 1:41:06.680 just for those guys who are always going to try 1:41:06.680 --> 1:41:08.200 to stick their neck out as much as possible, but 1:41:08.240 --> 1:41:10.439 also the kind of the cowards. To be honest, they're 1:41:10.439 --> 1:41:11.840 always going to be cowards and the Senate in the 1:41:11.880 --> 1:41:13.880 House who actually do want to do the right thing though, 1:41:14.560 --> 1:41:16.200 and they just don't feel like they have a space 1:41:16.240 --> 1:41:17.800 to do it. And that's the power of the movement 1:41:17.840 --> 1:41:20.519 that I think we could build, because there's an underbelly there. 1:41:20.760 --> 1:41:23.559 If you talk to those sixteen Republican senators who wanted 1:41:23.600 --> 1:41:25.560 to speak out about it. I guarantee you if I 1:41:25.640 --> 1:41:28.000 said there's gonna be a million people in your state 1:41:28.520 --> 1:41:30.960 right and left, we're speaking out about this in your favor, 1:41:30.960 --> 1:41:33.080 they would have been like, Okay, than I can too, 1:41:33.479 --> 1:41:34.960 and that's the power we. 1:41:34.960 --> 1:41:35.400 Need to build. 1:41:36.080 --> 1:41:38.439 Let's change subject of teeny bit or change focus at 1:41:38.439 --> 1:41:44.680 teeny bit. If you're sitting there as a guy that 1:41:45.280 --> 1:41:49.320 grew up and you had conservative principles, right, and you 1:41:49.400 --> 1:41:52.360 felt that like the party I kind of instinctively want 1:41:52.439 --> 1:41:55.880 to align myself with, Like they just are not representing 1:41:55.960 --> 1:41:59.320 my environmental concerns, right, I need them to. I want 1:41:59.360 --> 1:42:03.920 to change that position from your perspective, Like, what do 1:42:04.000 --> 1:42:05.919 you have to say if you had a private audience? 1:42:06.160 --> 1:42:08.920 So you have a private this is a private audience, right, Yeah. 1:42:09.880 --> 1:42:15.040 So so the houses, the Democrats in the House and Senate, 1:42:16.280 --> 1:42:18.360 they come to you and say what can we be 1:42:18.439 --> 1:42:20.439 what could we be doing different? What can we be 1:42:20.520 --> 1:42:25.439 doing different? What to them? Because it can't be that 1:42:25.680 --> 1:42:28.200 like they got it just right now, and you just 1:42:28.320 --> 1:42:32.280 want you just want the Republicans have adopt their approach, 1:42:32.960 --> 1:42:35.719 like where are they missing? Where are they losing people? 1:42:35.920 --> 1:42:38.120 Where are they missing? Where could they be more effective? 1:42:38.280 --> 1:42:40.240 When I say, I mean like a big day like 1:42:40.960 --> 1:42:44.720 the Democrats on average, Ye, like the Party of the Democrats. 1:42:45.120 --> 1:42:45.880 Where do they miss? 1:42:46.120 --> 1:42:48.360 Well, I think I'll reiterate, I think both sides are 1:42:48.360 --> 1:42:50.920 failing almost pretty equally on this issue. And the way 1:42:50.960 --> 1:42:54.240 that the Left has failed is it has been so 1:42:54.360 --> 1:42:56.760 much about climate and kind of this hysteria around Like 1:42:57.640 --> 1:43:00.320 I believe in climate change, and I you know, I'm 1:43:00.360 --> 1:43:02.439 not afraid to say that, but like when you're just 1:43:02.560 --> 1:43:06.599 talking about carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, like, climate change 1:43:06.680 --> 1:43:09.160 doesn't matter if we destroy all the wild places that 1:43:09.280 --> 1:43:12.479 we have left, right, Like it's like a distant priority. 1:43:12.960 --> 1:43:14.880 If you destroy the Amazon and you destroy all the 1:43:14.920 --> 1:43:16.840 wild places that we all love to recreate in, then 1:43:16.920 --> 1:43:18.920 we might as well just keep eating up the climate 1:43:19.280 --> 1:43:23.840 because we're all screwed. So they've kind of forgotten to 1:43:23.920 --> 1:43:27.160 work on conservation because they've been so focused on this other. 1:43:27.040 --> 1:43:28.679 Issue technical solutions. 1:43:28.800 --> 1:43:28.920 Right. 1:43:29.320 --> 1:43:30.840 Green New Deal, you. 1:43:30.920 --> 1:43:33.840 Know, is an oversimplified way to give the analogy, but 1:43:33.920 --> 1:43:38.040 it's basically, you know, that was their whole environmental platform, 1:43:38.479 --> 1:43:40.040 and you were like, well, if you look at the 1:43:40.080 --> 1:43:42.599 Green New Deal, it had nothing to do with public lands, 1:43:42.640 --> 1:43:47.280 private land conservation, sustainable ag forestry, water quality. It just 1:43:47.400 --> 1:43:51.400 only had to do with energy and EVS and technical infrastructure. 1:43:52.160 --> 1:43:55.559 So that's where they've really failed. And it's also been 1:43:55.600 --> 1:43:57.560 a race to the left. What's the most that you 1:43:57.680 --> 1:44:00.400 can do to be as radical as you can out 1:44:00.640 --> 1:44:02.400 to say you care more than the other person. But 1:44:02.479 --> 1:44:04.640 it's all about grand standing and it's all about like 1:44:04.720 --> 1:44:07.040 these pledges and these goals, but there's nothing behind them. 1:44:07.520 --> 1:44:11.080 Like I went to cop the UN Climate Conference for 1:44:11.240 --> 1:44:13.559 three years in a row, and it was the most 1:44:14.320 --> 1:44:17.519 abysmal time of my life because it was just like, well, 1:44:17.680 --> 1:44:19.880 if we have this pledge to be one hundred percent 1:44:19.960 --> 1:44:22.600 renewable by twenty thirty, that would be better than this 1:44:22.800 --> 1:44:25.639 company's pledge, or this country's pledge, or you know whoever 1:44:25.640 --> 1:44:26.360 the stakeholder was. 1:44:26.520 --> 1:44:28.360 And it was like, what are you actually gonna do? 1:44:29.120 --> 1:44:29.280 Right? 1:44:29.400 --> 1:44:31.960 Like there there's no it's all about the messaging and 1:44:32.000 --> 1:44:33.880 it's not about the details. And the last thing that 1:44:33.920 --> 1:44:36.519 I think that they failed that is it has been 1:44:36.680 --> 1:44:40.200 you know this age old conservation versus preservation is like 1:44:40.320 --> 1:44:43.160 the debate, right, it's been going on for centuries and 1:44:43.200 --> 1:44:46.160 in America specifically in the last century, they've been hinging 1:44:46.320 --> 1:44:50.160 very closely to just working on preservation rather than conservation 1:44:50.560 --> 1:44:55.160 and restricting access for hunting and angling and getting outdoors 1:44:55.240 --> 1:44:57.879 and like people are so scared of like resource development 1:44:58.040 --> 1:45:00.720 and using public lands for other and then just like 1:45:01.479 --> 1:45:03.799 the Zero Clubs saying they want to watch the bears 1:45:04.080 --> 1:45:07.000 or the wolves and not hunt, you know, hunt them, 1:45:07.080 --> 1:45:08.680 Like that's kind of been the mindset has been the 1:45:08.760 --> 1:45:11.880 Zero Club mindset. And so in a similar way that 1:45:11.920 --> 1:45:14.360 the right has completely failed and is failing right now 1:45:15.040 --> 1:45:18.400 and we're seeing it. It's their turn to fail. The 1:45:18.520 --> 1:45:21.880 left has been failing too, and at some point one 1:45:21.920 --> 1:45:23.880 of the parties will get it right, or hopefully ideally 1:45:24.040 --> 1:45:25.920 both of them get it right, but right now that 1:45:26.000 --> 1:45:26.720 neither one of them is. 1:45:27.320 --> 1:45:32.280 Yeah, the use ray like we're both in New York City. Yeah, 1:45:32.439 --> 1:45:38.920 And man, the riot that would ensue if somebody was like, yeah, 1:45:38.960 --> 1:45:43.560 we're just gonna make Central Park off limits, right, just 1:45:43.680 --> 1:45:46.679 I was up with this Upper West Side array. 1:45:47.160 --> 1:45:48.120 Yeah, I mean. 1:45:49.760 --> 1:45:51.360 We don't want we you know, we don't want people 1:45:51.400 --> 1:45:53.519 to interfere with the squirrel movement, right. 1:45:53.680 --> 1:45:55.320 The squirrel movements, squirrel migration. 1:45:55.640 --> 1:46:01.200 Yeah, a couple of like quick anecdotes for rip over 1:46:01.920 --> 1:46:08.400 their brutal travel and get on the island of Manhattan. 1:46:08.479 --> 1:46:11.920 As soon as he get into Manhattan, there's this guy 1:46:12.520 --> 1:46:14.920 who does not look like me, probably has very different 1:46:15.000 --> 1:46:18.000 ideas about a lot of things, on an electric scooter, 1:46:20.280 --> 1:46:24.080 flying through traffic, and he's got two fishing rods strapped 1:46:24.080 --> 1:46:27.640 to his back coming off the Hudson. And I was 1:46:27.760 --> 1:46:31.479 just like, Okay, this guy and I like, we can 1:46:31.560 --> 1:46:35.439 have a conversation, I guarantee you. I thought that was 1:46:35.520 --> 1:46:40.280 just super awesome to see. And then yeah, the conversations 1:46:40.280 --> 1:46:42.920 that I had about like the parks, because I was 1:46:43.080 --> 1:46:45.719 blown away by how many dogs are on the Upper 1:46:45.800 --> 1:46:49.679 West Side and people like they do whatever it takes 1:46:50.160 --> 1:46:55.880 to maintain a dog friendly lifestyle. And I thought that 1:46:56.120 --> 1:46:58.439 and it, you know, it obviously like connects to these 1:46:59.160 --> 1:47:03.760 park systems, right. And I thought that was just a 1:47:03.920 --> 1:47:07.439 good example of like, here's this very this this group 1:47:07.479 --> 1:47:09.639 of people that I would put in a very nature 1:47:09.760 --> 1:47:16.439 disconnected category who have totally changed their lives in order 1:47:16.520 --> 1:47:20.800 to have that connection with that version of nature. Right. 1:47:20.920 --> 1:47:23.320 And they were like bird watchers, Holy, now. 1:47:23.520 --> 1:47:24.800 So many birdwatchers in New York. 1:47:25.160 --> 1:47:27.560 I was amazed. I was pretty pretty amazed with that. 1:47:27.720 --> 1:47:28.320 And then. 1:47:30.439 --> 1:47:32.519 But kind of to go back to the like the 1:47:32.600 --> 1:47:39.400 farm ranch community and where a lot of environmental groups 1:47:39.479 --> 1:47:42.240 have just like again lost connection with the end consumers. 1:47:42.280 --> 1:47:49.479 Another example, man, the majority of farmer rancher folks that 1:47:49.560 --> 1:47:53.720 I know address climate change every single day. It is 1:47:53.800 --> 1:47:56.920 part of their business as part as their their business plan. 1:47:58.479 --> 1:48:02.360 And they are so aware of the changes and the 1:48:02.400 --> 1:48:05.960 effects of climate change. Uh, the only way that they're 1:48:06.000 --> 1:48:07.680 going to be viable is. 1:48:07.800 --> 1:48:10.599 By adapting, mitigating all the above. 1:48:10.800 --> 1:48:11.920 Yeah, and they are doing it. 1:48:12.360 --> 1:48:13.200 And they do not. 1:48:15.000 --> 1:48:18.120 Want to be associated with the climate change crowd, no, right, 1:48:18.479 --> 1:48:20.760 but they're doing it every single day and they. 1:48:20.640 --> 1:48:22.240 Are the climate change ground. 1:48:22.479 --> 1:48:24.840 They don't want anybody to think they're a weirdo. Yeah, 1:48:25.360 --> 1:48:27.960 oh yeah, a liberal hit. Yeah. And it was like 1:48:28.080 --> 1:48:30.640 when my calves hit the ground, when I plant this, 1:48:30.880 --> 1:48:32.800 when I picked that, What I'm gonna do about water? 1:48:33.040 --> 1:48:34.759 How am I going to change what I plant? 1:48:35.080 --> 1:48:35.120 What? 1:48:35.400 --> 1:48:38.400 You know, what is worth it now versus was worth 1:48:38.439 --> 1:48:41.240 it ten years ago. As far as like field cultivation 1:48:41.439 --> 1:48:45.400 or non field cultivation, bringing what crops to market, the 1:48:45.479 --> 1:48:48.680 whole the whole thing. Water use, right, fertilizer, use all 1:48:48.760 --> 1:48:53.360 of it. And if you're not doing these things like 1:48:53.560 --> 1:48:55.680 you're you're not going to be around, you're not out 1:48:55.680 --> 1:48:56.080 of business. 1:48:57.479 --> 1:48:58.400 That's an interesting point. 1:48:58.680 --> 1:49:02.840 Yeah, And and then they hate they get the lecture 1:49:02.880 --> 1:49:05.519 to them, the environmentalist lecture to them, even though they're 1:49:05.560 --> 1:49:07.320 the ones doing in a lot. 1:49:07.439 --> 1:49:10.760 And some hook and bullet organizations too, like they use 1:49:11.120 --> 1:49:13.400 what I would call at this point like boiler plate 1:49:14.280 --> 1:49:19.280 conservation speak, right, and it's ian. It's the same version 1:49:19.520 --> 1:49:23.559 slightly tweaked for the last twenty years, right, that's going 1:49:23.640 --> 1:49:26.160 out to everybody, and they're like, well, this resonates. I'm like, well, 1:49:26.160 --> 1:49:29.080 it doesn't resonate with people with the dirt under their 1:49:29.080 --> 1:49:29.960 fingernails doing it. 1:49:30.479 --> 1:49:33.800 But the problem is philanthropy, so that there's money type, 1:49:33.840 --> 1:49:35.240 there's so much money tied to it. 1:49:35.320 --> 1:49:37.880 And that's that's where I that's another world that I 1:49:37.920 --> 1:49:41.240 have to work in, is the philanthropic world where you know, 1:49:41.280 --> 1:49:43.040 and probably shouldn't even be talking about this because they 1:49:43.040 --> 1:49:44.680 probably don't like that i'd be saying this, but it's 1:49:44.760 --> 1:49:48.439 like they are so out of touch, but they have 1:49:48.560 --> 1:49:52.080 so much money and they're funding these campaigns, they're funding 1:49:52.080 --> 1:49:53.640 the zero clubs of the world. When they're doing this 1:49:53.720 --> 1:49:59.439 anti bear thing, for sure, they're also funding these very preachy, 1:49:59.520 --> 1:50:04.040 condescens Rural people are screwed up and dumb and like 1:50:04.320 --> 1:50:06.360 are doing the wrong thing all the time, and we 1:50:06.479 --> 1:50:10.959 need to take it back because farming an egg and industry, 1:50:11.320 --> 1:50:14.560 they are the bane of our existence and we have 1:50:14.720 --> 1:50:17.960 to basically ban them from society if we're gonna keep going. 1:50:18.080 --> 1:50:20.000 And it's it's like, and don't even get into the 1:50:20.080 --> 1:50:23.360 nuance of like the definition of rural if you're standing 1:50:23.720 --> 1:50:27.120 in Manhattan, the definition of rural if you're standing in 1:50:27.240 --> 1:50:28.120 cold Foot, Alaska. 1:50:28.280 --> 1:50:31.720 The philanthropists are only the philanthropists would not survive a 1:50:31.960 --> 1:50:35.280 literally ten minutes there. They live in San Francisco, they 1:50:35.320 --> 1:50:38.360 live in New York, and they live in Chicago. Those 1:50:38.360 --> 1:50:40.120 are kind of the and a little bit of la 1:50:40.200 --> 1:50:43.000 Those are the four places they don't leave there and 1:50:43.560 --> 1:50:46.160 they are in the biggest bubble if you think, like DC, 1:50:46.360 --> 1:50:48.240 the swamp is a bubble which people want to drain. 1:50:48.760 --> 1:50:50.760 Philanthropy needs to be drained. 1:50:50.560 --> 1:50:53.640 Like it's it's crazy what I have to put up 1:50:53.680 --> 1:50:58.000 with with philanthropists and how disconnected they are, and they 1:50:58.280 --> 1:51:01.080 actually don't understand what's going on in America at all, 1:51:01.320 --> 1:51:04.479 and yet they are funding tens of billions of dollars 1:51:04.720 --> 1:51:08.679 of nonprofits to dominate the narrative. And so that's also 1:51:08.720 --> 1:51:12.360 part of my plan right, is to represent in an 1:51:12.479 --> 1:51:18.600 environmental movement America. Actually, because the environmentalist groups can't do that. 1:51:18.760 --> 1:51:20.800 They literally can't. That's why I have such an advantage here. 1:51:21.000 --> 1:51:22.920 They can't even they can't they can't even try to 1:51:22.960 --> 1:51:26.360 do what we're doing because they're funded to not do that, 1:51:27.680 --> 1:51:31.799 and they are in philanthropy is so screwed up because 1:51:32.040 --> 1:51:36.320 a nonprofit only exists if they get the money, and 1:51:36.439 --> 1:51:38.960 you only raise money if there are problems, And so 1:51:39.080 --> 1:51:41.320 what's the Is there an incentive to solve the problem. 1:51:41.400 --> 1:51:43.599 Then no, because if you solve the problem, you lose 1:51:43.640 --> 1:51:48.400 your job. So there's there's there's you know, that's where 1:51:48.400 --> 1:51:51.000 the disconnected messaging comes from because the people who are 1:51:51.040 --> 1:51:53.519 dominating that from a financial perspective, who are donating to 1:51:53.640 --> 1:51:55.920 these groups, have no idea how real America lives. 1:51:55.960 --> 1:51:59.400 I'm going to give you a very weird, petty example 1:51:59.400 --> 1:52:04.320 of what you're talking about. I remember, uh when I 1:52:04.360 --> 1:52:07.560 remember watching Just in the News, when when Michael Bloomberg, No, 1:52:07.680 --> 1:52:10.560 not Bloomberg. Who's the guy the tall guy kind of 1:52:10.680 --> 1:52:12.160 left in a little bit of a scandal. Mayor of 1:52:12.240 --> 1:52:17.360 New York City Blasio. I remember right away when de 1:52:17.439 --> 1:52:22.240 Blasio got elected, I haven't thought about and scamd. 1:52:22.479 --> 1:52:23.320 I was like, still. 1:52:26.720 --> 1:52:27.599 Bloomberg shor. 1:52:29.520 --> 1:52:30.400 He pulled that up on the screen. 1:52:32.479 --> 1:52:33.519 Can you put up all the Michaels. 1:52:35.280 --> 1:52:37.519 I remember when he when he came in, like a 1:52:37.600 --> 1:52:40.559 thing he did very early was this like thing about 1:52:41.320 --> 1:52:43.720 we laughed about it on the show, but he came 1:52:43.800 --> 1:52:48.360 in and very early had this thing about the rules 1:52:48.400 --> 1:52:49.360 about the horses. 1:52:50.080 --> 1:52:50.439 Mm hmm. 1:52:53.280 --> 1:52:55.720 I remember being like, if that is not an example 1:52:56.280 --> 1:53:01.519 of someone giving that guy money and saying listen, you know, 1:53:02.040 --> 1:53:04.080 and he's like, okay, got it. I'll try to remember, 1:53:04.160 --> 1:53:05.920 like you give me a bunch of money and some 1:53:06.200 --> 1:53:09.680 about the horses. Got it? Like it was so transactional, 1:53:09.800 --> 1:53:14.200 Oh yeah, and that like I imagine, but why not 1:53:14.280 --> 1:53:16.600 that magic? I've seen it, Like you know, I've had 1:53:16.640 --> 1:53:22.439 exposure to the nonprofit space where I see where donors 1:53:23.240 --> 1:53:30.800 philanthropy can come in and manipulate a nonprofit agenda with 1:53:30.960 --> 1:53:31.639 a big carrot. 1:53:33.240 --> 1:53:35.840 That's that's really how this all works and they're. 1:53:35.640 --> 1:53:39.200 Like advocate here though there because there's also ways in 1:53:39.320 --> 1:53:43.320 which like a group the people as part of an 1:53:43.520 --> 1:53:46.439 NGO have issues that they care about, Like they want 1:53:46.479 --> 1:53:48.760 to work on wildlife, they want to work on public lands, 1:53:48.760 --> 1:53:49.400 they want to do this. 1:53:50.200 --> 1:53:52.160 And and they see. 1:53:53.439 --> 1:53:56.680 Grants available and they sort of go, oh, we can 1:53:56.840 --> 1:54:00.679 tie this to that by framing it this way. They're 1:54:00.800 --> 1:54:04.040 still trying to solve that problem, you know, like like 1:54:04.120 --> 1:54:07.479 I don't I don't believe that people at BHA, uh 1:54:08.320 --> 1:54:11.080 don't want I don't believe that people at BHA want 1:54:11.200 --> 1:54:13.400 the public lands issue to still to just be a 1:54:13.520 --> 1:54:16.400 constant football because they actually care about it. 1:54:16.640 --> 1:54:19.040 No, that's true. They yeah, they're not. They're not like 1:54:19.880 --> 1:54:22.680 they're definitely not thinking, well, we want to win, not 1:54:22.800 --> 1:54:23.240 all the way. 1:54:23.360 --> 1:54:26.800 Yeah, and then like when they look at a I mean, 1:54:28.640 --> 1:54:31.640 the philanthropy thing is complicated, and I think that I 1:54:31.680 --> 1:54:34.080 think it exists on sort of like a spectrum er. 1:54:34.120 --> 1:54:35.080 It's like a tug of war. 1:54:35.160 --> 1:54:37.040 It's like, well, we could get into this pot of 1:54:37.160 --> 1:54:39.280 money if we sort of frame our work in this way, 1:54:39.920 --> 1:54:42.240 and we can use that money to do what we 1:54:42.440 --> 1:54:45.480 really want to do. And sometimes you can get too 1:54:45.760 --> 1:54:50.800 tugged too far outside of your core issues. But there's 1:54:50.840 --> 1:54:53.680 also a lot of ways in which they're using that 1:54:53.840 --> 1:54:58.440 money strategically to get to sort of pour more gas 1:54:58.560 --> 1:54:59.960 on the fire and what they really want to work. 1:55:00.320 --> 1:55:02.240 I agree, but I think I think a lot of 1:55:02.280 --> 1:55:04.560 it's subconsciously going in the wrong direction. So what I 1:55:04.600 --> 1:55:06.440 mean by this is during the public lands sell off, 1:55:07.640 --> 1:55:11.320 the Senator Mike Lee, if you remember on Twitter, was 1:55:11.400 --> 1:55:13.680 going after me largely because of what I was saying 1:55:13.720 --> 1:55:16.440 on social media, and his whole conspiracy is that I 1:55:16.560 --> 1:55:20.040 was funded to go against him. I will be transparent. 1:55:20.080 --> 1:55:25.600 I raised fifty thousand dollars after it happened, fifty thousand dollars. 1:55:26.520 --> 1:55:30.560 I know that there are so many massive environmental NGOs 1:55:31.360 --> 1:55:34.480 who took this massive public stand, again not moving the 1:55:34.520 --> 1:55:36.760 needle at all, but they were like, you know, screw you, 1:55:36.920 --> 1:55:39.800 President Trump, screw you, Mike Lee, screw you whatever. They 1:55:39.960 --> 1:55:44.200 raised tens of millions of dollars off of that because 1:55:44.240 --> 1:55:45.880 they tried to make a name for themselves in a 1:55:45.960 --> 1:55:47.480 time where they weren't actually doing anything. 1:55:47.560 --> 1:55:50.640 Probably were not impactful because they weren't talking to anybody. 1:55:50.280 --> 1:55:53.320 Knew, right, So Mike Lee had actually in a strange 1:55:53.360 --> 1:55:56.320 way the right thought process there, which is like Benjie's 1:55:56.320 --> 1:55:58.000 probably using this to raise a ton of money, and 1:55:58.080 --> 1:56:00.440 I didn't because I didn't even plan and get involved 1:56:00.440 --> 1:56:01.720 in that, because I didn't know it was coming down 1:56:01.760 --> 1:56:03.960 the pike. Like there was like you couldn't even plan for, right. 1:56:04.040 --> 1:56:06.280 We all found out pretty last minute, and we all 1:56:06.360 --> 1:56:08.360 just did what we needed to do, so there wasn't 1:56:08.360 --> 1:56:12.800 some coordinated effort. But these groups are incentivized to make 1:56:12.880 --> 1:56:15.200 it seem like they are doing more than they actually 1:56:15.240 --> 1:56:18.000 are and to take harder stances than what actually would 1:56:18.040 --> 1:56:20.960 move the needle because they know that that's where philanthropy is, like, 1:56:21.000 --> 1:56:23.600 oh thank god, you know this group is taking such 1:56:23.640 --> 1:56:26.240 a hard stand, but there's not actually like an outcome 1:56:26.360 --> 1:56:29.160 thought of it. And so I think that you're right. 1:56:29.640 --> 1:56:32.120 But a lot of groups raise money when they don't 1:56:32.200 --> 1:56:35.360 actually do anything with it. And I'm not saying BHA specifically, 1:56:35.400 --> 1:56:37.640 I don't know enough about that, but well, i'll give you. 1:56:38.080 --> 1:56:42.760 An example to your point. So roadless rule, Right, I'm 1:56:42.800 --> 1:56:45.240 working with a bunch of different groups and talking about 1:56:45.400 --> 1:56:48.600 roadless rule, and this kind of ties in a couple 1:56:48.640 --> 1:56:51.720 of points I've been made today is right, Like, we're 1:56:51.760 --> 1:56:55.920 not even at the actual conversation about roadless rule because 1:56:55.920 --> 1:56:59.480 it's not about timber, it's not about public access to 1:57:00.080 --> 1:57:05.879 these areas. It's not, in my opinion, actually about wildfire mitigation. 1:57:07.280 --> 1:57:09.640 So just tell me what the reason is. Yeah, that 1:57:09.760 --> 1:57:13.520 you want to roll back protections on forty four million acres, 1:57:14.120 --> 1:57:16.840 that that would be like the chunk that is actually 1:57:16.920 --> 1:57:17.919 going to get affected. 1:57:18.080 --> 1:57:21.800 You're not you mean, you're not buying that. It's just general, no, 1:57:21.880 --> 1:57:22.280 a thing. 1:57:23.120 --> 1:57:25.240 Like, just tell me the thing so we can talk 1:57:25.280 --> 1:57:25.840 about the thing. 1:57:26.200 --> 1:57:29.080 Right Earlier we talk about the debate, like the buffalo thing, 1:57:29.200 --> 1:57:33.160 and there's all these red herrings, brucellosis whatever. In the 1:57:33.320 --> 1:57:35.680 end you're like, oh, I get it. This is about 1:57:36.520 --> 1:57:40.520 who's what animals eat? What grass? It's about grass, Yeah, 1:57:40.640 --> 1:57:43.480 you know what I mean. And with the with the 1:57:43.840 --> 1:57:48.240 l it was about like, this is about increasing new 1:57:48.360 --> 1:57:50.280 lands for developers to develop. 1:57:50.160 --> 1:57:54.200 Right, and decreasing the federal state and trying to achieve 1:57:55.720 --> 1:57:59.040 for their goal of reducing the federal budget deficit. 1:57:59.680 --> 1:58:03.560 That thread hearing it might it might be one thing 1:58:03.960 --> 1:58:04.320 one thing. 1:58:04.520 --> 1:58:06.600 Well, either way, it's definitely out in affordable housing. We 1:58:06.600 --> 1:58:08.480 can agree in that for housing. 1:58:08.560 --> 1:58:10.000 I don't think they're worry about the debt. There's a 1:58:10.040 --> 1:58:12.240 lot better ways to figure out the debt totally. 1:58:12.360 --> 1:58:14.920 But on this road list deal, I've you know, I 1:58:15.000 --> 1:58:19.160 have a good, good idea. Come upper. 1:58:20.000 --> 1:58:20.120 Uh. 1:58:20.840 --> 1:58:24.760 And I was like, well, why don't we all these 1:58:24.800 --> 1:58:27.280 groups that have resources, why don't we spend some time 1:58:28.280 --> 1:58:34.320 get the list of the green groups that sue the 1:58:34.480 --> 1:58:39.400 most on some of these mitigation efforts that are that 1:58:39.560 --> 1:58:44.360 are technically included in the wording of the roadless rule, right, 1:58:45.560 --> 1:58:51.200 and we at least get them to a table where 1:58:51.240 --> 1:58:53.560 we can have a discussion on what they're going to 1:58:53.600 --> 1:58:54.560 sue on and what they're not. 1:58:56.040 --> 1:58:56.200 Right. 1:58:56.320 --> 1:58:58.240 And then we're going to have this letter and this 1:58:58.360 --> 1:59:02.680 coalition that says, hey, all these including these ones that 1:59:02.760 --> 1:59:06.080 are screwing everything up for everybody because they just sue 1:59:06.120 --> 1:59:07.760 all the time. They just try to grind things to 1:59:07.800 --> 1:59:13.320 a halt. Say this is our line. If you guys 1:59:13.400 --> 1:59:16.400 outline where you need the work done, we will not 1:59:16.520 --> 1:59:20.160 sue on this. And if they don't, we'll just make 1:59:20.960 --> 1:59:24.200 this big, huge coalition out here say there is no 1:59:24.720 --> 1:59:28.080 working with these groups, and we'll make it as public 1:59:28.120 --> 1:59:30.840 as possible. We'll make them prize and that that'll be 1:59:30.920 --> 1:59:34.000 the tactic here, right, And the response is like, man, 1:59:34.240 --> 1:59:38.920 it's a great idea, ideas. 1:59:38.960 --> 1:59:39.520 We can't do it. 1:59:40.800 --> 1:59:42.680 And they're like are you I mean, are you going 1:59:42.760 --> 1:59:45.000 to go to these law firms and be like, uh, 1:59:46.440 --> 1:59:50.240 your business is going to be And they're gonna be like, Hey, 1:59:50.280 --> 1:59:50.920 that's a good idea. 1:59:51.080 --> 1:59:52.800 Go to those law firms, be like youre familiar with 1:59:52.840 --> 1:59:57.160 the whole like doge complex, that's what you're gonna have 1:59:57.160 --> 1:59:59.080 to apply something different because work's drying up. 2:00:00.040 --> 2:00:01.120 Yeah, they're not going to say yes to that. 2:00:01.480 --> 2:00:08.360 Right. When did Nature is non Partisan get founded? April 2:00:08.640 --> 2:00:13.520 twenty five? April twenty twenty five, layout for me, like, 2:00:15.040 --> 2:00:16.880 how do you think? How do you approach things? Do 2:00:16.920 --> 2:00:19.760 you approach things like quarters in your mind? Years in 2:00:19.840 --> 2:00:21.440 your mind, ten years in your mind? 2:00:21.640 --> 2:00:23.640 Quarters? Because the world changes every quarter? 2:00:23.840 --> 2:00:26.080 Right, a couple of quarters? What's come? Like? What? Like? 2:00:27.080 --> 2:00:29.440 We're going to launch a national narrative shifting campaign with 2:00:29.560 --> 2:00:32.040 a lot of the coalition partners that we've been working with, 2:00:32.160 --> 2:00:33.640 including a lot of the groups that you work with, 2:00:33.960 --> 2:00:36.160 you know, the trcps of the world. We're gonna include 2:00:36.200 --> 2:00:38.840 everybody who's in this broad coalition in a campaign called 2:00:38.960 --> 2:00:41.360 United by Nature. We're gonna have concerts, We're gonna have 2:00:41.360 --> 2:00:43.360 community events, We're gonna have calls to action, We're gonna 2:00:43.360 --> 2:00:46.160 have national ad campaigns. We're going to try to make 2:00:46.240 --> 2:00:50.720 this United by Nature the calling card for support the troops. Right, 2:00:50.760 --> 2:00:52.840 we are united by nature, whether that nature is your 2:00:52.960 --> 2:00:55.600 salt lake or it's your you know, Everglades, or it's 2:00:55.640 --> 2:00:57.879 your you know, beartooth mountains. 2:00:57.960 --> 2:00:58.080 Right. 2:00:58.200 --> 2:01:01.120 So it's it's trying to create that national identity. We're 2:01:01.120 --> 2:01:03.040 going to launch it in the in the next quarter. 2:01:03.120 --> 2:01:05.680 We're also going to launch it bipartisan caucus in the 2:01:05.800 --> 2:01:10.760 Senate focused on conservation and try to create the space 2:01:11.200 --> 2:01:12.080 for that to get done. 2:01:12.200 --> 2:01:13.920 Is it gonna be called the level Headed Caucus? 2:01:14.920 --> 2:01:16.560 The level Headed cauca? What was the notion? 2:01:17.000 --> 2:01:19.880 What was your secondary slogan for you don't show up 2:01:19.880 --> 2:01:20.720 America Caucus? 2:01:21.520 --> 2:01:22.160 I'll ask. 2:01:24.480 --> 2:01:27.680 That's great, and then you know, we're really going to 2:01:27.720 --> 2:01:31.040 focus on tell people to Caucus caucus is like a 2:01:31.120 --> 2:01:34.880 little little family of senators that want to do the 2:01:34.960 --> 2:01:38.760 same action on the same topic. And so there are 2:01:39.000 --> 2:01:41.240 there's like the Congressional Sportsman's Caucus, which is a great 2:01:41.280 --> 2:01:45.000 group focus on you know, sportsmen's issues and trying to 2:01:45.080 --> 2:01:47.880 build support in the Senate just on those issues. 2:01:47.960 --> 2:01:50.200 So we saw the public Lands Caucus in the House. 2:01:50.400 --> 2:01:52.600 Yeah, yeah, and so it'll be very complimentary to that 2:01:52.720 --> 2:01:55.560 in the Senate, but on more than just public lands. 2:01:55.600 --> 2:01:59.240 It'll be about private land, wildlife, water, and a little 2:01:59.240 --> 2:01:59.920 bit of a wider. 2:01:59.720 --> 2:02:03.720 Sweet And you imagine pulling in you imagine this pulling 2:02:03.800 --> 2:02:06.000 in centrists from both parties. 2:02:05.720 --> 2:02:09.160 Or we actually want pretty hardcore Republicans and hardcore Democrats. 2:02:09.200 --> 2:02:10.880 But it's gonna be one for one membership. So for 2:02:10.920 --> 2:02:12.600 every Republican, we get a Democrat. 2:02:12.800 --> 2:02:13.920 Is that normal for a caucus? 2:02:14.240 --> 2:02:15.920 No, there are a few that are modeled that way, 2:02:16.440 --> 2:02:17.120 but very rare. 2:02:17.280 --> 2:02:18.800 Oh yeah, because yeah, obviously. 2:02:19.120 --> 2:02:24.520 And our organization is structured part yeah, yeah, our organization 2:02:24.680 --> 2:02:26.560 is structured that way too. We have half our staff 2:02:26.600 --> 2:02:29.360 is liberal, half its conservative. Half our boards liberal half 2:02:29.560 --> 2:02:32.200 half its conservative. And we're intentional for everybody that we add, 2:02:32.800 --> 2:02:36.800 we are making do you have non binary everyone's got 2:02:36.880 --> 2:02:42.800 a leaning somewhere like put me down for both. 2:02:44.600 --> 2:02:44.800 We do. 2:02:45.000 --> 2:02:48.160 Actually, if you look at it from the box, you 2:02:48.280 --> 2:02:51.080 have to figure it out. No, we we we have 2:02:51.320 --> 2:02:51.840 out our board. 2:02:51.840 --> 2:02:53.280 We have got a few people who I actually have 2:02:53.360 --> 2:02:57.080 no idea, but if there's a pretty active conservative person, 2:02:57.120 --> 2:03:00.160 we're definitely gonna have an active understood so that that's 2:03:00.160 --> 2:03:01.520 the vision that we see, because when you have it 2:03:01.640 --> 2:03:03.480 structured that way, and this is why, you know a 2:03:03.520 --> 2:03:06.120 lot of environmental organizations their staff is one hundred percent 2:03:06.200 --> 2:03:08.120 liberal or you know other boards one hundredercent liberal, and 2:03:08.240 --> 2:03:09.480 of course they're going to lean that way, just like 2:03:09.560 --> 2:03:11.760 if it was the other way. So so we're gonna 2:03:11.800 --> 2:03:15.000 launch this caucus. We're gonna launch the National Narrative Shifting Campaign, 2:03:15.240 --> 2:03:18.080 United by Nature. We're probably gonna do a big event 2:03:18.480 --> 2:03:21.880 at Yellowstone here in the spring to rally people around 2:03:21.920 --> 2:03:25.400 public lands and bring in like an A list celebrity, 2:03:25.440 --> 2:03:26.960 a list music. So we're trying to make this a 2:03:27.000 --> 2:03:32.000 culturally relevant thing. And can you speak, no, just bring 2:03:32.040 --> 2:03:34.000 my kids want to hang out? What if they want 2:03:34.000 --> 2:03:35.840 to watch their dad on stage, they won't. 2:03:38.240 --> 2:03:48.240 What if your wife wants to Yeah, we wanted to go, dad, 2:03:48.240 --> 2:03:49.680 but we're actually gonna stay home this week. 2:03:50.440 --> 2:03:53.520 We heard this speech at dinner, part of it. 2:03:54.640 --> 2:03:56.320 But but yeah, that's kind of what the next few 2:03:56.320 --> 2:04:00.480 months look like. And you know, we're we're really excited 2:04:00.520 --> 2:04:03.240 because we're seeing, especially in the wake of just like 2:04:03.280 --> 2:04:06.640 the political division, people are wanting something positive in politics 2:04:06.720 --> 2:04:11.280 right now. And if there's one issue that could help 2:04:11.360 --> 2:04:15.320 democracy kind of move forward and also bring our priorities 2:04:15.320 --> 2:04:17.680 to the table, the environment's probably the best one in 2:04:17.800 --> 2:04:21.560 my opinion. So we're seeing a lot of natural support, 2:04:22.320 --> 2:04:25.440 and you know, people from across the spectrum. I mean, 2:04:26.200 --> 2:04:30.120 we have drag queens and militant you know, militant activists 2:04:30.160 --> 2:04:32.240 who are all believing in this same model. And it's 2:04:32.400 --> 2:04:35.200 it's it's really kind of incredible what people are looking 2:04:35.280 --> 2:04:36.120 for on this right now. 2:04:36.720 --> 2:04:41.919 How will you decide going forward? How will you decide 2:04:42.200 --> 2:04:49.520 Like where with the public land sell off, there's like 2:04:49.560 --> 2:04:54.000 a specific thing. Yeah, there's a known party that's pushing it. 2:04:54.160 --> 2:04:55.960 There's a no, not not even party, there's a known 2:04:56.000 --> 2:04:58.800 individual who's pushing it, yep, Right, and so you got 2:04:58.920 --> 2:05:01.840 to like create friction, Yeah, like you're going to You're like, 2:05:02.080 --> 2:05:04.320 whatever you do, however positive you keep it, you will 2:05:04.360 --> 2:05:09.080 create friction. Right. How how are you deciding on what 2:05:09.280 --> 2:05:12.200 issues where you're like, I'm going to create friction on 2:05:12.280 --> 2:05:14.520 this one. I'm going to create friction on this one. 2:05:14.560 --> 2:05:18.840 I mean specific bills, right, specific measures do I mean like, 2:05:19.360 --> 2:05:22.400 is it just your moral compass? Like, like what goes 2:05:22.480 --> 2:05:24.880 into going like this is going to get ugly? 2:05:25.720 --> 2:05:28.200 I think it's when we know that the vast majority 2:05:28.280 --> 2:05:30.960 that there's a winning coalition that's willing to be like 2:05:32.160 --> 2:05:36.040 active on something. Because we mostly want to be four things. 2:05:36.240 --> 2:05:37.720 So what I mean by that is like, we don't 2:05:37.720 --> 2:05:39.960 want to always be the group that's standing against whatever 2:05:40.080 --> 2:05:42.120 is bad. That's what a lot of environmental groups do. 2:05:42.440 --> 2:05:44.720 We want to show that there is a political constituency 2:05:45.360 --> 2:05:48.640 to put forward funding for national parks, to put forward 2:05:48.680 --> 2:05:51.600 funding for wildlife conservation, right, like, like show that there's 2:05:51.600 --> 2:05:54.440 an appetite for that in a positive way. Because I'm 2:05:54.480 --> 2:05:56.840 so sick of like politicians only being afraid of people 2:05:56.920 --> 2:05:58.640 instead of like being like, oh, I'm doing this because 2:05:58.640 --> 2:06:01.360 people actually want me to do it. So but when 2:06:01.440 --> 2:06:04.160 there's this example, like the public land sell off, where 2:06:04.480 --> 2:06:06.400 we have to take a stance against it, we are 2:06:06.480 --> 2:06:09.080 going to be very intentional about picking and choosing. I've 2:06:09.080 --> 2:06:11.440 already gotten so much shit for not taking a stance 2:06:11.480 --> 2:06:14.800 against absolutely everything that's been happening over the last eight months. 2:06:15.000 --> 2:06:18.080 And I'm like, I can't die on every hill, right, 2:06:18.160 --> 2:06:20.240 and our organization can't die on every hill, and no 2:06:20.440 --> 2:06:23.760 organization can die on every hill. But if there's an 2:06:24.440 --> 2:06:28.400 overwhelming winning coalition of Americans where the politicians are so 2:06:28.600 --> 2:06:30.680 out of touch with America like they were on the 2:06:30.720 --> 2:06:33.040 public land sell off, we're going to show them that 2:06:33.120 --> 2:06:36.600 they're out of touch. And so it will depend on really, 2:06:36.840 --> 2:06:39.560 where's the American populace at, where's the winning coalition at? 2:06:39.920 --> 2:06:42.880 And can we actually mobilize them, because if we can't, 2:06:42.920 --> 2:06:45.760 then we're trying to stick a square peg into a 2:06:45.800 --> 2:06:48.480 round hole, and a lot of times that's what happens 2:06:48.560 --> 2:06:50.840 and it doesn't actually do anything. So if we're going 2:06:50.920 --> 2:06:52.840 to really lean in and be against something, we better 2:06:53.000 --> 2:06:55.240 be damn sure that it's going to be impactful before 2:06:55.280 --> 2:06:55.520 we do it. 2:06:55.640 --> 2:07:00.880 Yeah, that's that's I like that appro Yeah, I'm at 2:07:00.920 --> 2:07:02.680 a loss for words. I love that approach. I like 2:07:02.760 --> 2:07:05.120 that approach because I think another way that groups would 2:07:05.160 --> 2:07:08.360 look and they'll say this is we're gonna lose bad, 2:07:09.040 --> 2:07:11.160 but this is gonna be good for fundraisings, and this 2:07:11.280 --> 2:07:15.000 is gonna be good for press. If Peta says, hey, 2:07:15.040 --> 2:07:16.640 we're gonna have it be that you don't say a 2:07:16.680 --> 2:07:21.560 whole hog anymore. You know, they're like, we're probably gonna lose. 2:07:22.160 --> 2:07:24.800 People are still gonna say a whole hog, but it's 2:07:24.840 --> 2:07:27.960 gonna get a lot of media, exactly. But you know, 2:07:28.160 --> 2:07:29.240 I'm not gonna win this one. 2:07:30.920 --> 2:07:31.760 And that's exactly. 2:07:31.800 --> 2:07:34.160 I mean what I'm at the point where it's like, 2:07:34.720 --> 2:07:36.600 I care about the outcomes and if that, if that 2:07:36.680 --> 2:07:39.440 comes at the cost of fund fundraising, I'm willing to 2:07:39.520 --> 2:07:41.120 take that. If it comes at the cost of media, 2:07:41.400 --> 2:07:43.880 that's fine. If it comes at the cost of people 2:07:43.960 --> 2:07:45.800 thinking that I have some ulterior motive because I'm not 2:07:45.840 --> 2:07:48.000 taking a stance on everything because I think that I'm 2:07:48.080 --> 2:07:50.040 like trying to shy away from every issue, then that's 2:07:50.080 --> 2:07:52.080 fine too. But I think people have gotten so used 2:07:52.120 --> 2:07:54.879 to like, oh, you're not taking a stance on absolutely 2:07:54.880 --> 2:07:57.320 everything that's bad, therefore you must have some ulterior motive. 2:07:57.320 --> 2:07:59.240 It's like, no, it's actually the opposite, right, Like I 2:07:59.400 --> 2:08:03.760 could raise so much money opposing everything that Donald Trump does. 2:08:04.000 --> 2:08:05.920 I could raise so much money off of that, and 2:08:06.040 --> 2:08:07.920 if I wanted to, I would do it. Or if 2:08:07.920 --> 2:08:09.920 I wanted to defend everything he was doing, I could 2:08:09.920 --> 2:08:11.960 also raise a lot of money off of that. But 2:08:12.480 --> 2:08:15.240 I think over time people's demand is going to be 2:08:15.360 --> 2:08:17.800 for trying to actually create good outcomes. At least that's 2:08:17.840 --> 2:08:20.000 my optimistic view of the world, that people will actually 2:08:20.080 --> 2:08:22.760 want that, and over time people will see, man, this 2:08:23.000 --> 2:08:26.280 is if you want to take a legitimate stance on 2:08:26.400 --> 2:08:28.200 something that will actually move the needle, this is the 2:08:28.320 --> 2:08:29.240 organization to work with. 2:08:29.480 --> 2:08:30.000 That's the goal. 2:08:30.160 --> 2:08:32.760 You know what good analogy could be for you, Like, 2:08:32.840 --> 2:08:37.040 think about how the military would look at battles. They're 2:08:37.080 --> 2:08:39.800 not like, all the guys are gonna diem, but think 2:08:39.800 --> 2:08:42.080 about what this is gonna mean from a publicity stamp, 2:08:42.480 --> 2:08:45.240 right right. They're kind of like, no, no, no, I 2:08:45.280 --> 2:08:47.880 think we should go on Wednesday night because we're gonna 2:08:47.880 --> 2:08:52.120 win on Wednesday night, are you guys? Just you guys 2:08:52.160 --> 2:08:53.600 have we're gonna go. 2:08:54.320 --> 2:08:57.840 We're gonna go on too much time together, Steve. Steve 2:08:57.880 --> 2:08:59.560 and I were playing phone tag all day and I 2:08:59.640 --> 2:09:03.160 happened to be on a Gettysburg tour and we finally connected. 2:09:04.400 --> 2:09:08.320 While I'm sitting there looking at at Pickett's charge from 2:09:08.400 --> 2:09:11.880 the viewpoint of the Union lines and seems like, well, 2:09:11.920 --> 2:09:14.080 what do you think I'm like, this is so stupid. 2:09:15.800 --> 2:09:19.480 I'm like, you cannot tell me, you cannot, Like, I'm 2:09:19.600 --> 2:09:24.240 at odds with our historical tour guide right now because 2:09:24.240 --> 2:09:25.560 I'm like, yeah, I'm not buying this. 2:09:26.560 --> 2:09:30.040 This is ego driven something being like can I get 2:09:30.080 --> 2:09:37.640 a quick word? Just kind of looking down, looking around here? 2:09:37.880 --> 2:09:40.840 And that is the perfect analogy, though, That is the 2:09:40.880 --> 2:09:44.320 perfect analogy. Yeah, and I think the conservation movement could 2:09:44.320 --> 2:09:47.080 really use that. But also, like there to your point earlier, 2:09:47.560 --> 2:09:50.360 there are so many incredible groups out there in the 2:09:50.520 --> 2:09:52.200 hunting you know, in the hook and bult crowd, but 2:09:52.280 --> 2:09:55.360 also in the conservation crowd, but they're not trying to 2:09:55.400 --> 2:09:57.280 do what I'm trying to do, and so we can 2:09:57.320 --> 2:09:59.960 work really well together to get things done because they 2:10:00.000 --> 2:10:02.000 they do they do have science behind them, and they 2:10:02.040 --> 2:10:04.960 do have resources, they do have research, they do have 2:10:05.200 --> 2:10:07.240 some grassroots right, and they have a brand, and they 2:10:07.320 --> 2:10:10.600 have really good ideas. But we need to facilitate the 2:10:10.640 --> 2:10:14.280 space for those ideas and create the national identity around 2:10:14.320 --> 2:10:17.680 those ideas. And so you know, I think for most 2:10:17.720 --> 2:10:20.720 of America, like we hope to be the national movement, 2:10:20.760 --> 2:10:23.080 but then we want to help accelerate the priorities of 2:10:23.080 --> 2:10:24.680 all these other great groups that are out there that 2:10:24.800 --> 2:10:28.400 just haven't had the space. Like TRCP has so many 2:10:28.440 --> 2:10:31.280 great policy ideas. All these groups have so many great 2:10:31.280 --> 2:10:34.240 policy ideas, but if the political space isn't there to 2:10:34.360 --> 2:10:38.600 move them, then they're just ideas right and the roadless 2:10:38.680 --> 2:10:42.120 rule or anything that we're against, you know, being rescinded, 2:10:42.280 --> 2:10:46.040 Like we might be right about that, but if they 2:10:46.240 --> 2:10:48.520 still decide to go forward with it because Americans didn't 2:10:48.520 --> 2:10:52.040 speak up enough about it, then then it doesn't. 2:10:51.840 --> 2:10:52.720 Matter how right we were. 2:10:53.000 --> 2:10:56.640 So that I'm a big TRCP supporter. Cal does allow 2:10:56.680 --> 2:11:00.520 to work with BHA, but I think that I'm sure 2:11:00.560 --> 2:11:06.000 there are people that fall into a trap of being competitive. Yes, 2:11:07.480 --> 2:11:09.760 but I would say, like speaking for the people at 2:11:09.800 --> 2:11:11.760 this table, I would say, like we'll take the wins. 2:11:11.880 --> 2:11:14.720 We can get them, yep, and we just need wins. Yeah, 2:11:15.000 --> 2:11:17.600 Like you know, I love to see the groups I 2:11:17.640 --> 2:11:19.480 love and the people I love thrive and do well. 2:11:19.560 --> 2:11:24.840 But I'm not I'd rather see environmental wins than organization wins. 2:11:24.920 --> 2:11:25.480 I agree with that. 2:11:25.680 --> 2:11:29.520 No, And honestly, I mean, if nature is not God speed, 2:11:30.120 --> 2:11:34.240 thank you God. And you know, it really doesn't matter 2:11:34.440 --> 2:11:36.440 who gets the credit. We just need good conservation wins. 2:11:36.520 --> 2:11:38.560 Like people ask me all the time, why am I 2:11:38.600 --> 2:11:41.560 doing this? And I think you'll find out in twenty 2:11:41.640 --> 2:11:43.920 years as we look back, forty years, as we look back, 2:11:44.200 --> 2:11:46.960 I just care about conservation wins. And if Nature's non 2:11:47.000 --> 2:11:49.840 partisans isn't needed, then that's then that's great. But if 2:11:49.840 --> 2:11:53.440 it's also the most important culturally relevant organization, that's great too. 2:11:53.840 --> 2:11:56.000 But like there is no motive other than getting wins 2:11:56.040 --> 2:11:58.240 on the board. So but I like that approach because 2:11:58.280 --> 2:12:00.520 it also means that we are being so collaborative with 2:12:00.520 --> 2:12:02.440 all these other groups that largely have seen each other 2:12:02.560 --> 2:12:06.080 as like competitive enemies in a lot of ways, but 2:12:06.160 --> 2:12:07.280 they could be moving together. 2:12:07.840 --> 2:12:09.880 And I do believe that it's more powerful if they do. 2:12:10.560 --> 2:12:14.200 And I know that's kind of breaking the mold of 2:12:14.360 --> 2:12:16.600 like the nonprofit model, it's breaking the mold of like 2:12:16.640 --> 2:12:19.200 the political model. People want to be against each other 2:12:19.360 --> 2:12:23.040 to find competition. But like, this to me, is bigger 2:12:23.080 --> 2:12:25.200 than that. It's bigger than politics. It's bigger than who 2:12:25.200 --> 2:12:27.400 has the money. It's bigger than who gets the money. 2:12:27.440 --> 2:12:30.760 It's bigger than who gets the win. It's who and 2:12:30.960 --> 2:12:34.000 how did we get the best outcomes for conservation because 2:12:34.000 --> 2:12:37.040 we need like a twenty first century infusion of conservation 2:12:37.200 --> 2:12:40.480 progress like Teddy Roosevelt created. We need to have that 2:12:40.640 --> 2:12:43.360 legacy recreated in this country, and we're not going to 2:12:43.440 --> 2:12:45.920 do it with the typical political bullshit that we've been 2:12:46.000 --> 2:12:47.200 dealing with over the last few years. 2:12:49.200 --> 2:12:50.840 I appreciate it taking so much time to talk. 2:12:50.960 --> 2:12:52.760 Man, this is really fun. I even got to eat 2:12:52.800 --> 2:12:55.000 jerky on air. Get to look my chops a little 2:12:55.000 --> 2:12:56.520 bit frothee. 2:12:58.200 --> 2:12:59.160 Should we all do that and. 2:12:59.240 --> 2:13:02.760 Just go, oh, Phil, there's some jerky where you feel 2:13:02.760 --> 2:13:04.360 like they should have put one of those old flossers 2:13:04.400 --> 2:13:06.680 in the bag with it. But that doesn't give any problem. 2:13:07.240 --> 2:13:14.320 I mean, like threads when we when I was a kid, 2:13:14.480 --> 2:13:16.640 when we made we made jerky, my dad would just 2:13:16.800 --> 2:13:19.080 like take the shank and slice it thin, you know. 2:13:19.280 --> 2:13:22.040 I remember, like every piece of jerk you ate, you'd 2:13:22.120 --> 2:13:25.440 have like a cut. You'd have a cut, and after 2:13:25.560 --> 2:13:28.400 an hour jerky eat and you take this white ball 2:13:29.880 --> 2:13:33.360 it's like a piece of chewing gum sinow and you'd 2:13:33.400 --> 2:13:34.840 eventually take that and flick it. 2:13:37.080 --> 2:13:38.480 It's full of little jerky pieces. 2:13:41.120 --> 2:13:43.240 You just be like like, yeah, it's probably and you 2:13:43.320 --> 2:13:47.280 open the window and off into the side of the road. 2:13:48.600 --> 2:13:52.040 This does not that I don't need that, no connective. 2:13:51.720 --> 2:13:55.400 Tissue, there's no cut, there's no cut to choose, but. 2:13:55.560 --> 2:13:57.720 I do want to again, you guys have a lot 2:13:57.800 --> 2:14:02.080 of incredible influence and pact that you've made, both of you, 2:14:02.520 --> 2:14:06.560 specifically on getting people rallied around these ideas across party lines. 2:14:06.800 --> 2:14:09.400 So you're living the Nature's non partisan mantra every single day. 2:14:09.440 --> 2:14:11.720 And I look up to you guys a lot, and 2:14:12.000 --> 2:14:14.840 and just the way that you've LED's. 2:14:13.960 --> 2:14:16.000 Cal's tenacious man. You are. 2:14:16.560 --> 2:14:20.760 Well, it helps when you're right, that's the good thing. 2:14:23.000 --> 2:14:23.440 In the morning. 2:14:23.520 --> 2:14:28.360 Yeah, Well, when it's when it's authentic, you fight harder, right, 2:14:28.480 --> 2:14:30.320 and and you can tell that you mean it, and 2:14:30.400 --> 2:14:32.000 you can tell you mean it, and hopefully you can 2:14:32.040 --> 2:14:33.320 tell that I mean it, And that just makes it 2:14:33.400 --> 2:14:35.400 easier because you wake up every day and you actually 2:14:35.400 --> 2:14:37.240 want to do it and you're not trying to put 2:14:37.280 --> 2:14:39.040 someone in a box. Because the thing is the thing 2:14:39.080 --> 2:14:41.960 that we have against these these screw ups in politics 2:14:42.000 --> 2:14:44.280 today is that they are putting themselves in boxes that 2:14:44.320 --> 2:14:47.120 they don't even think are authentically real. And at some point, 2:14:47.280 --> 2:14:49.600 this authenticity of fighting for what we actually believe in 2:14:49.680 --> 2:14:52.240 will win because we actually have the passion and we 2:14:52.320 --> 2:14:54.440 actually care, and that will win. 2:14:54.760 --> 2:14:59.080 I keep reminding people, I'm like, we are right. And 2:14:59.200 --> 2:15:02.320 if you don't think you are, bring this, bring your 2:15:02.480 --> 2:15:06.200 viewpoint of public lands and the value of them to 2:15:06.320 --> 2:15:08.520 somebody who doesn't have that viewpoint. And you can just 2:15:08.640 --> 2:15:12.280 watch the mental gymnastics happen exactly and how they have 2:15:12.360 --> 2:15:16.560 to like try to re center themselves on their argument. 2:15:16.760 --> 2:15:17.840 They're like, well have you. 2:15:19.640 --> 2:15:21.440 It's like, yeah, yeah, we got it. 2:15:23.360 --> 2:15:25.240 But I feel like you're not feeling. 2:15:25.000 --> 2:15:31.040 That that's not an authentic view you have, right, right, 2:15:31.280 --> 2:15:38.240 They're like, well, I've never been but right, that's true. 2:15:38.280 --> 2:15:40.600 I think some of those guys we could really they 2:15:40.680 --> 2:15:43.040 look like they've never been in the outdoors before, and 2:15:43.200 --> 2:15:44.840 they look like, you know, maybe we could help them. 2:15:45.680 --> 2:15:47.600 So yeah, that's something we should think about at some point. 2:15:48.360 --> 2:15:51.240 Little sun, a little little mountain, little tree, little dirt, 2:15:51.400 --> 2:15:51.920 little dirt. 2:15:52.040 --> 2:15:54.160 Not to sidetrack it, but summer. 2:15:54.240 --> 2:15:55.120 I was going to wrap up. 2:15:56.960 --> 2:15:57.880 An allergy. 2:15:59.120 --> 2:16:02.920 Summer and yellowstone. You see all these people pouring through livingstone. 2:16:03.640 --> 2:16:05.520 They look like they've never spent a day outdoor in 2:16:05.520 --> 2:16:08.120 their lives, and there's a lot of eye rolling about it. 2:16:08.240 --> 2:16:10.720 But when I see that, I actually think it's really 2:16:10.840 --> 2:16:15.160 cool that somebody who lives in Florida or or New 2:16:15.240 --> 2:16:18.000 York or wherever is like, you know what. 2:16:18.080 --> 2:16:19.520 We need to do this year? We need to go 2:16:19.720 --> 2:16:23.280 see Montana and Wyoming because you're a big hearted person. 2:16:23.680 --> 2:16:26.920 No, I mean the traffic gets old. I don't like 2:16:27.000 --> 2:16:30.200 waiting for tables at restaurants, but like it's I don't. 2:16:30.040 --> 2:16:33.120 Want to peel the curtain back too much. But Randall 2:16:33.240 --> 2:16:37.120 and his wife have both told me that if they 2:16:37.200 --> 2:16:40.720 ever went on a murder spree, it would it would 2:16:40.720 --> 2:16:44.160 be to target people who do illegal things in national parks. 2:16:44.200 --> 2:16:45.879 Okay, that's but that's a different argument. 2:16:46.120 --> 2:16:48.720 Again, all of my darkest secrets are coming out. 2:16:49.520 --> 2:16:54.119 No, but those are those are not contradictory, Like, yeah. 2:16:54.000 --> 2:16:55.920 I think it's I think it's so cool that people 2:16:55.959 --> 2:16:57.880 are like that. The people in this country are like 2:16:58.080 --> 2:16:59.040 I have to see this. 2:16:59.320 --> 2:17:01.200 This is part of my Americans. 2:17:01.240 --> 2:17:03.480 This is part of being an adult as an American. 2:17:04.360 --> 2:17:06.959 Is like sharing this with my kids, even if they 2:17:07.040 --> 2:17:10.200 never come back like another day, or they don't hunt, 2:17:10.280 --> 2:17:13.039 or they don't fish. They're like, you know what, We're 2:17:13.080 --> 2:17:15.520 gonna load up the station wagon and go look at 2:17:15.640 --> 2:17:16.360 rocks and water. 2:17:16.720 --> 2:17:19.560 No, that's true, Phil. You should take that clip and 2:17:19.720 --> 2:17:23.240 send that to Venmo and if they'll let Randall back on. Yeah, 2:17:23.280 --> 2:17:23.680 I'm on it. 2:17:28.240 --> 2:17:32.080 This guy come on, such a bad guy him. 2:17:32.360 --> 2:17:35.840 Let him transact, let him buy what he needs to buy, 2:17:36.640 --> 2:17:37.920 Let him buy what he needs to buy from the 2:17:37.959 --> 2:17:38.480 state sales. 2:17:38.560 --> 2:17:40.440 This episode sponsored by then. 2:17:40.360 --> 2:17:47.440 Mountain man Benji Backer. Nature is nonpartisan. Thanks man, thanks 2:17:47.480 --> 2:17:47.880 for having me. 2:17:47.959 --> 2:17:49.280 This is a lot of fun. And come back to 2:17:49.320 --> 2:17:49.640 come back. 2:17:49.879 --> 2:17:51.000 No, I'd love to have you back on. 2:17:53.160 --> 2:17:54.760 And let's get out there together at some point too. 2:17:54.959 --> 2:17:55.959 Would That's why I'd rather. 2:17:55.879 --> 2:17:57.720 Be hit us up in a year. That's kind of 2:17:57.720 --> 2:18:01.720 a year later we allowed. I have a lot of 2:18:01.720 --> 2:18:02.240 people to come back. 2:18:02.320 --> 2:18:03.800 I'll put her well, hopefully we made a lot of progress. 2:18:03.800 --> 2:18:05.400 I'll put it on my calendar one year. 2:18:05.480 --> 2:18:08.160 One year unless things change a whole bunch and that's 2:18:08.160 --> 2:18:10.160 all of a sudden, you win all the environmental battles, 2:18:10.400 --> 2:18:11.040 then come back on. 2:18:12.720 --> 2:18:14.160 Is that that's the incentive right there? 2:18:15.440 --> 2:18:17.600 All right, you do an update, we won them all. 2:18:20.640 --> 2:18:23.320 I'll see in a year that's no way, that's happening. 2:18:23.560 --> 2:18:25.360 All right, Thanks man, thank you so much. Appreciate it. 2:18:31.520 --> 2:18:34.720 H M.