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Speaker 1: This is the me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underware. Listening past, you

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything brought to you by first Light. When

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Speaker 1: I'm hunting, I need gear that won't quit. First Light builds,

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Speaker 1: no compromise, gear that keeps me in the field longer,

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Speaker 1: no shortcuts, just gear that works. Check it out at

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Speaker 1: first light dot com. That's f I R S T

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Speaker 1: l I t E dot com. We're joined today by

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Speaker 1: Benji Backer of Nature Is Nonpartisan, and we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about can it be? You're just saying it is?

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Speaker 2: It is?

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Speaker 1: You just that's the title.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna will it to existence, and we're gonna.

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Speaker 1: Say, is it how? How can can it be? How

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Speaker 1: does it become? How does nature become nonpartisan? Meaning wildlife conservation,

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Speaker 1: wildlands conservation? Can it? Can it rise above.

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Speaker 2: The vitriol, the culture wars.

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Speaker 1: In the in the cycles, Yeah, I mean and off again.

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Speaker 2: It has to. Uh, That's why I created Nature's non parson.

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Speaker 1: I mean, because you just you're saying it is.

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Speaker 2: It is because people, Yes, exactly.

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Speaker 3: We got to get out of our algorithms here and

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Speaker 3: realize that it actually once was non partisan. Right, you

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Speaker 3: look at history, the biggest environmental achievements, conservation achievements throughout

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Speaker 3: history were immensely by partisan non parson. I've spent the

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Speaker 3: last ten years of my career. I'm twenty seven. So

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Speaker 3: I started when I was a freshman in college. I

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Speaker 3: started a nonprofit by freshman year of college, like a

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Speaker 3: normal freshman does, and went around the country and saw

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Speaker 3: that people actually wanted a lot.

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Speaker 2: Of the same things.

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Speaker 3: They want clean air, they want clean water, they want

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Speaker 3: wildlife habitat to be concerned. They want to be able

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Speaker 3: to hunt and fish. They also want to be able

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Speaker 3: to hike and ski. They just want to be able

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Speaker 3: to spend time outdoors. And you could be the trumpiest

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Speaker 3: voter in the world, or you could be an AOC

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Speaker 3: lover and anything in between, and you want those same things.

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Speaker 3: And yet that's not reflected in our politics today. So

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Speaker 3: we have to get this right. So by saying I

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Speaker 3: could say nature should be nonpartisan, that's a less compelling organization.

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Speaker 3: There's four four words there instead of three uh ought

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Speaker 3: to be ought to be.

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Speaker 4: Un could be The NSBN is not a really compelling acronym.

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Speaker 2: It's just ESPN two similar too. Similar.

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Speaker 3: Uh, but yeah, I mean we we feel like it

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Speaker 3: should be, and so we're going to make sure that

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Speaker 3: it is.

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Speaker 2: That's the whole goal.

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Speaker 1: When we get into this, I want to talk about

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Speaker 1: some of my favorite little facts that uh the e

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Speaker 1: p A all the stuff that came in under Nixon, dude.

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Speaker 1: And not only that, this guy, yeah yeah, and not

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Speaker 1: only that, my other little favorite thing. Cal might remember

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Speaker 1: the numbers on it when they passed the Wilderness Act.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't like ninety nine to one in the Senate or

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Speaker 1: like it was like not that so much. She looked

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Speaker 1: that up, Phil, Yeah, I mean it, Phil, that's not something.

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Speaker 1: Phil's trying to memorize. His line.

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Speaker 5: I'm also switching cameras, making you look good taking notes.

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Speaker 1: I can look this up. He's back there a farw.

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Speaker 5: Thing thrilled when Steve learns another form of English currency.

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Speaker 1: Phil, you ever hear of a fella named Bob scratch it? Nope,

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Speaker 1: Bob cratch it yep. I like that.

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Speaker 6: You didn't play along there.

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Speaker 1: You showed up in town at the wrong time. If

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Speaker 1: you just showed up in town months from now, you'd

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Speaker 1: be like, go see Phil and Christmas, Carol. Oh is

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Speaker 1: he in it doing Little Dickens. Yeah, right now is it?

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Speaker 1: He's playing do.

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Speaker 2: A couple of the halftime you know what? What what?

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Speaker 1: Like this this is my name.

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Speaker 7: It's not technically a one man show, but he makes

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Speaker 7: it seem as if it is.

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Speaker 2: That's he plays all the roles.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Like in movies, there's like a big line that

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Speaker 1: the actor is excited about, Like when you think of

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Speaker 1: Bob cratch in your role, what line are you like?

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Speaker 1: What line are you most excited to?

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Speaker 5: Just he's got a very emphatic yeah here when when

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Speaker 5: When when Fred is trying to convince convince Scrooge of

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Speaker 5: the joys of Christmas, I'll be watching for that.

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Speaker 7: And the only reason I bring it up is because

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Speaker 7: that's the only line I have memorized so far.

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Speaker 1: When I went to film some time a couple months

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Speaker 1: when I went to fill more of a sound effect

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Speaker 1: than a line.

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Speaker 6: But go ahead, and Phil's last play.

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Speaker 4: He I didn't really know what his role was, and

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Speaker 4: I was reading the bill, you know, and and he's

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Speaker 4: like all the way at the end of the bill,

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Speaker 4: and then as the play goes on, I'm like, God,

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Speaker 4: he's got all the lines, Like he's got all the

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Speaker 4: laughs he's.

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Speaker 1: The main kid.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I'm like, I was like growing as I

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Speaker 4: realized how central his role was. I was growing more

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Speaker 4: and more offended at Phil's placement in the bill. And

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Speaker 4: it wasn't until two days later and I told him

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Speaker 4: this and they said it was alphabetized.

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Speaker 1: Filled the engineer.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so he was under tea. But I thought

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Speaker 4: it was like this Grave Injustice. Uh yeah, I'm excited

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Speaker 4: for this one.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. I'll tell you what. It's watched this segu

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Speaker 1: you know what, you know what? It ain't gonna be

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Speaker 1: as good ass film, let's hear it. Mm. The Christmas Tour,

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Speaker 1: Ah should have guessed.

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Speaker 2: You like that?

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Speaker 1: That was good. I don't know they gonna be as

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Speaker 1: good as the Christmas Tour.

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Speaker 7: Uh.

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Speaker 1: Me Eater Live the Christmas Tour coming to the American South.

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Speaker 1: I wish I had all the cities in front.

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Speaker 6: Of Birmingham, Memphis, Nashville.

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Speaker 1: I want to do the dates and everything. Got you

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Speaker 1: how do I find that chack chatting?

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Speaker 6: You go to the meat eater dot com slash tour.

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Speaker 1: No, you can see all the day tight tang tight

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Speaker 1: here it is. We're coming out. We're coming on the road. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Brent Reeves will be there. He's in for the full tour.

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Speaker 1: Clay nukeomb there, Doctor Randall will be there. Yanni Full

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Speaker 1: Tour Special guests at every stop. December seventeenth, They're going

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Speaker 1: to be in Birmingham, Alabama, at the Lyric. At that event,

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Speaker 1: I will tell my story about taking a a very

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Speaker 1: paranoid two days I spent where I took a shotgun apart.

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Speaker 1: And I was going from on a Greyhound bus from Missoula, Montana,

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Speaker 1: to Auburn, Alabama to duck Hunt, very nervous about if

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Speaker 1: they found out I had that gun mhm. And we

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Speaker 1: went into and I'll tell my story about Birmingham. People

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Speaker 1: are gonna think they found the gun. They never found it.

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Speaker 7: Wait and see, wait and see.

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Speaker 1: But the drama is but yeah, it's just worth it.

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Speaker 1: At the Lyric December seventeenth, Birmingham, Alabama. At the Lyric

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Speaker 1: December eighteenth, Nashville, Tennessee Marathon Music Works, December nineteenth. You'll

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Speaker 1: know if these all are just these are all this

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Speaker 1: every night fills up here, Scrooge and we're down in

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Speaker 1: these places. What's that line? Here here here, here, you

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Speaker 1: got it? December nineteenth. Did I do that yet. Eighteenth, Nashville,

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Speaker 1: Tennessee at Marathon Music Works. December nineteenth, Memphis, Tennessee, Minglewood Hall.

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Speaker 1: I've been texting with Will Primos. I believe that Will

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Speaker 1: Primos is gonna be He's gonna come to the the

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Speaker 1: show and he's going to give life advice that's delightful.

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Speaker 1: That will be the top pieces of life advice from

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Speaker 1: a man that has earned a position of giving that advice. December.

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Speaker 1: We've been kicking around a couple of things, like Clay

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Speaker 1: wants Brent Reeves to hold a fish fry on stage

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Speaker 1: every night, but the minute you tell the venue then

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Speaker 1: they then they're gonna have to be like, well, now

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Speaker 1: we gotta get a fire marshal. That's hard. You know,

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Speaker 1: we do the casting contest. We kind of want to

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Speaker 1: do a blowgun contest, but not tell the venue, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because then they'll have to get a cop or you know,

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Speaker 1: you just said it right now so they might get it.

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Speaker 1: There'll be a fire marshal and the cop.

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Speaker 7: Wait, we should just find out if the beauty of

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Speaker 7: our show is there's like zero percent of stage hands

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Speaker 7: that listen to it, so except.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no one from the venue Oh yeah, Phil's friends.

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Speaker 1: Do your friends listen just to catch you on the show?

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Speaker 7: Phil, definitely not No.

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Speaker 1: December twenty Fayetteville, Arkansas at Ozark Music Hall, which I

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Speaker 1: believe is sold out. December twenty one, Dallas, Texas, Texas

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Speaker 1: Theater December twenty two, and I believe we've got Jesse

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Speaker 1: Griffis coming out. Hang out with this one too, December

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Speaker 1: twenty two, Austin, Texas at the Paramount. Tickets are all

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Speaker 1: in sale.

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Speaker 2: Now that's a good week night, dude.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're gonna need to have some Christmas after that.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go see my mam.

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Speaker 2: Where's she at?

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Speaker 1: Michigan?

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Speaker 2: Hey, I'm a Midwestern by myself. What state Wisconsin?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Okay, we'll part of two of the three best Midwest

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Speaker 3: states covered well Partiscani Ohio.

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Speaker 1: It's also at the table.

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Speaker 7: Builds kind of similar to Chester. When we said Wisconsin,

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Speaker 7: I was like, huh.

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Speaker 1: Do look like Chester?

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Speaker 2: Little Chester?

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Speaker 7: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Big ches, big Chess I met little Chester.

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Speaker 2: You look like a big Chester, like if.

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Speaker 1: Chess had had better eate his wheaties and better like

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Speaker 1: pre natal. I don't know, yeah exactly, I'm just thinking

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Speaker 1: because we had that guy on the Monteeth about deers Mom's.

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Speaker 6: Full expression, the full expression of his jeans.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna take this as a comment. I'm not

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Speaker 2: quite sure yet, but.

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Speaker 1: Like everybody here, Love Bodies on Montana say, I look

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Speaker 1: like a big gesture and I don't know.

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Speaker 2: What that means.

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Speaker 1: Uh, near Green Bay es great? Okay, So we're just

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Speaker 1: we're just like right across the lake. Yeah, I could

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Speaker 1: have shot. I could have shot over and we used

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Speaker 1: to cross and we'd land over at exactly God, God

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Speaker 1: knows his great lakes. Steve.

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Speaker 5: The Wilderness Act passed seventy three to twelve in the Senate.

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Speaker 1: But then that's why I like to say ninety nine

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Speaker 1: to one.

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Speaker 5: Well sounds it passed the House three seventy four to one.

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Speaker 2: See that's what you're thinking.

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Speaker 1: That seems I was combining them. Yeah, it was combining

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Speaker 1: the legislative bodies in the one and finding a sort

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Speaker 1: of average.

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Speaker 5: The only name being Joe Pool from Texas. And I

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Speaker 5: can't figure out why I've been looking up, but.

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Speaker 1: I feel that it might be this is Lower. I

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Speaker 1: feel that he didn't feel it went far enough.

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Speaker 7: Of the spiel.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, Lower. Yeah, I've talked about this a

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Speaker 1: handful of times. I don't know if I have on

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Speaker 1: the show or not. This is fitting because me and

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Speaker 1: Randall been working on our The Hide Hunters, Our Meat

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Speaker 1: Eaters audio original or sorry, Meeter's American History The Hide Hunters,

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Speaker 1: which tells the story of the begin Okay, let me

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Speaker 1: back up. Meeter's American History. The Hide Hunters tells the

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Speaker 1: story of the Buffalo hide Hunters. It covers from eighteen

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Speaker 1: sixty five, so the year the Civil War ended. We

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Speaker 1: explained why that's of significance up to eighteen eighty three,

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Speaker 1: and it tells about the men, the motivations, the skills,

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Speaker 1: the justifications, the dangers, the dangers, the bloodshed, the untimely

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Speaker 1: deaths involved in the men who killed the last fifteen

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Speaker 1: million buffalo off the American Great planes ran that number

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Speaker 1: from fifteen million down to less than a thousand. In

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Speaker 1: the US today we have about there's about a half

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Speaker 1: million in existence. Ninety four percent are privately owned. That

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Speaker 1: really needs to change. Maybe we'll touch on that that's

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Speaker 1: a non that should be a non part is an issue,

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Speaker 1: but even that is partisan.

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Speaker 2: Buffalo covering buffalo buffalo and non partisan.

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Speaker 1: The should be but Recovering Buffalo organization. Recovering the buffalo

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Speaker 1: is a part is an issue, and it's not fair

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Speaker 1: because it's one of the few conservation achievements we could

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Speaker 1: have by not It's like, it's not by doing something,

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Speaker 1: it's by not doing something getting out of the way.

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Speaker 1: Like a lot of times you're like, oh, that's a

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Speaker 1: lot of work, but with this, it's like it's kind

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Speaker 1: of like not doing something would help the animals. Anyhow,

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Speaker 1: it's a long winded way of saying, we've been talking

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Speaker 1: about this. So we have a new jerky out. We

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Speaker 1: take our own jerky. So if you guys bought our cookbooks,

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Speaker 1: we always have jerky recipes in our cookbooks, and we

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Speaker 1: have a new jerky out. Here's a package right here

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Speaker 1: where we take our own recipes from our cookbooks and

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Speaker 1: use them on American buffalo So bison jerky. You can

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Speaker 1: get it. You can go to you can get it

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Speaker 1: right now. There's been a lot of fun working on it.

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Speaker 1: You can get it. You can you can order your

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Speaker 1: own at meat Eatersnacks dot com. One hundred percent buffalo

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Speaker 1: fuel in the country for a long time, and then

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Speaker 1: you can go read about do.

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Speaker 2: You taste tests on set here.

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Speaker 1: Well, do you want some we do mega taste tests

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Speaker 1: on set. You want classic pepper?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think pepper, classic pepper, Yeah, classic, sorry, class.

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Speaker 1: That new fangled pepper. Try it out.

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Speaker 2: It's not normal pepper.

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Speaker 1: But you know, when you start you on jerky, then

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Speaker 1: you got to talk gets hard.

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Speaker 7: Just do it right into the microphone.

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Speaker 1: You enjoy them, You enjoy them. It's a good morning jerky.

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Speaker 1: You regret taking that. It's a good early morning.

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Speaker 3: I just want this part to be clipped and that's it.

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Speaker 3: You guys can end it now. Yeah, that's actually really

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Speaker 3: good though, No, it is good.

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Speaker 1: It's great.

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Speaker 2: That is solid.

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Speaker 1: No, I think it's fantastic. It turned out really well.

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Speaker 2: Really really good.

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Speaker 3: That's not that's not regular pepper. Right there, that is

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Speaker 3: classic pepper right there.

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Speaker 1: We had a lot of back and forth. We finally

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Speaker 1: got one that we love. One last little thing. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Whitetail Week is here right now. September twenty nine through

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Speaker 1: October fifth, First Lights run their white tail sale up

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Speaker 1: to forty off all kinds of gear. Oh look at this,

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Speaker 1: here's a kicker. If you pick up a new white

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Speaker 1: tail jacket and bibbs. First Light. We'll throw in a

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Speaker 1: Moultrie trail camera for free shopping out first light dot com.

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Speaker 1: How could you say no to that?

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Speaker 7: So, yeah, it's not just a Moultie trail camera, it's

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Speaker 7: the first Light cameo multie trail camera.

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Speaker 1: That's what I got. I got one cheeping an eye

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Speaker 1: on my fish shack right now.

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Speaker 7: That that's an interesting thing, is like the Moultie folks

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Speaker 7: really just want you talking about hunting, and I'm like,

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Speaker 7: the hunting stuff I don't worry about nearly as much

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Speaker 7: as people, uh breaking into stuff. Yeah, and that's a great,

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Speaker 7: great use of those trail cameras.

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Speaker 1: Doug has a sign coming into the buckshack the farmhouse.

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Speaker 1: It reminds it's like a sign telling you that if

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Speaker 1: you're breaking in, he already has your picture on his phone.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, he's got in typical Doug form. There's some cutesiness

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Speaker 7: about it too, like like there's nothing in here worth

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Speaker 7: the trouble.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, nothing in here worth the trouble you're gonna have. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'd argue that because he's got this. He's

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Speaker 1: got this twelve pound uh sledge hammer head no handling

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Speaker 1: it that he uses to hold the bathroom door. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I kind of want that sledgehammer head. How much

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Speaker 1: trouble do you get in for taking something like that?

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Speaker 1: It can't be like a lot.

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Speaker 4: So when you enter a window, is it to the

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Speaker 4: left or right? As long as they're putting this out there,

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Speaker 4: go in, go in and.

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Speaker 1: Go like go in? Is it just like like just

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Speaker 1: to the right? Gotcha's a bathroom door. There's a twelve

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Speaker 1: pound sledgehammer head there propping the door. That is just

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Speaker 1: a waste of a beautiful sledgehammer head antique. I would

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Speaker 1: tell people, dog's gonna have your picture. Yeah, don't start

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Speaker 1: in the kitchen.

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Speaker 8: The kitchens like the table bypass the kitchen, and it

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Speaker 8: is so chocked fully junk from you know, decades of

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Speaker 8: people thinking, oh, you could use an extra sauce pan,

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Speaker 8: but there's already nine different saucepans jammed in the back

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Speaker 8: of this thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: Anytime you go to put something away, there's just like

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Speaker 7: this cascade of old aluminum and nonstick pans and tin and.

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Speaker 1: People are like they're holding it over their garbage can

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Speaker 1: and they're like, dah, I'll brand the ducks.

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Speaker 7: Exactly. Oh, it's infuriating.

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Speaker 1: Uh, here's here's the interesting little fight, bruin. We're only

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Speaker 1: gonna do like one or two. I think we got

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Speaker 1: one newsy thing we're gonna do. One's just funny. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna do the funny one first. So, oh, did you

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Speaker 1: guys see damn it the Mississippi Black Panther. Yeah, that's funny,

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Speaker 1: And then you can get into it. A news story

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Speaker 1: broke out in Maryland. I only caught it after it happened.

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Speaker 1: But a woman got approached by a bear in Maryland. Okay,

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Speaker 1: she from the bear and fell and got hurt. The

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Speaker 1: bear never touched her, but she fell and got hurt.

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Speaker 1: So there was like a bear and an injury. So the

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Speaker 1: news cycle, I guess very quickly was like attack and

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Speaker 1: then it was well self inflicted she here's a self

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Speaker 1: inflicted bear injury related So you could go and find

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Speaker 1: if you felt like you can go and kind of

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Speaker 1: track the sort of evolution.

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Speaker 6: Of of like what exell phone game?

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Speaker 2: But what exactly went down that phantom bear attack?

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Speaker 1: Here's one it's more interesting. I'm bringing the sucks. We've

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Speaker 1: covered this bunch over the years, and our very own

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Speaker 1: Jordan Sillers just wrote a piece about it. Florida is

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Speaker 1: my favorite story in the in the world. Years ago,

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Speaker 1: Florida ran a bear hunt. Florida had many bears. If

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Speaker 1: you go back historically, they over hunted them, they over

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Speaker 1: poisoned them, they over predator controlled them to the point

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Speaker 1: where they had very few bears. Bears have really recovered

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Speaker 1: in Florida, I think now, like you know, over fifty

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Speaker 1: percent of the state has good bear populations. Years ago

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Speaker 1: they ran a bear hunt, and they ran a bear

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Speaker 1: hunt in Florida. You might pulling up what year that

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Speaker 1: was Randall's I was bragging bot how fast he is

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Speaker 1: that researching? Well, I turned my WiFi. Years ago they

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Speaker 1: opened a bear hunt and they did the management strategy

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Speaker 1: of using a quota. And when you use a quota hunt,

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Speaker 1: what it is is you'd go and say, I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to do the best way to the simplest way to

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Speaker 1: put this. You say to your you say to the

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Speaker 1: people in your state. You're like, hey, we're gonna have

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Speaker 1: a bear hunt. And the quota is one hundred bears,

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Speaker 1: so everybody could go the whole state. You all go hunting.

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Speaker 1: As soon as you get one, call our hotline. And

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Speaker 1: then when we get to like ninety eight, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: turn it off, okay, And that's a quote. That's how

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Speaker 1: a quota said some functions. So everybody goes and you

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Speaker 1: just count, count, count, count, count, and then bank. Many

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Speaker 1: things are managed by quota. There's caribou herds in Alaska

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Speaker 1: that are quota hunts where they like, you hit two

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Speaker 1: hundred in the region closes in the state. I'm in

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Speaker 1: Montana right now. Montana runs quota's on mountain lions. They

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Speaker 1: run quota sheet bighorn sheep where anyone, anybody that wants

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Speaker 1: can participate. It turns off when you hit the quota,

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Speaker 1: and there's a little bit of a there's a lag.

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Speaker 1: There's a little art and science to it, like you

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Speaker 1: sort of watch your quota. It's speed and then and

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Speaker 1: then you usually have a little bit of a buffer

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Speaker 1: to turn it off. Meaning if some guy is like

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Speaker 1: drawn back on a on a big horn sheep and

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden his phone dings and the quota

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Speaker 1: is full, right, but he doesn't look at his phone

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Speaker 1: and shoots the big orn sheep, he's not trouble because

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Speaker 1: they give a forty eight hour buffer. So they go

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Speaker 1: like they the numbers climb and you're sort of watching

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Speaker 1: the trajectory and you're watching your quota cap and you

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Speaker 1: call it and you're like, okay, it's full. So in

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Speaker 1: forty eight hours, season's over. When Florida years ago tried

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Speaker 1: this bear hunt twenty fifteen, twenty fifteen, they tried a

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Speaker 1: bear hunt, and they in some of their areas they

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Speaker 1: shot past the quota very very fast, blew everybody away.

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Speaker 1: How fast a quota like, they had some units where

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Speaker 1: they blew past the quota, And.

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Speaker 7: I just bring the speed up because I do think

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Speaker 7: that's like a factor in the general reaction.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think they had any idea.

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Speaker 4: In two days the state wide quota because this doesn't

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Speaker 4: really this distorts like what actually happened. But the state

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Speaker 4: wide quota was three twenty and in two days they'd

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Speaker 4: killed three hundred. But because of the regional distribution of that,

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Speaker 4: like some areas were way shot past.

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Speaker 1: And then you call it. And then I think that

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Speaker 1: what happened in some of those areas is they called it,

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Speaker 1: but there's a twenty four hour window, and then during

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Speaker 1: the twenty four hours over the they shot over the quota,

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Speaker 1: not enough to be of like biological significance, but plenty

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Speaker 1: enough to be of social significance because it was a

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Speaker 1: very contentious issue. It like, if you look at if

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Speaker 1: there's a theme in wildlife management, it would be that

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Speaker 1: when you have a species that becomes imperiled and you

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Speaker 1: stop hunting for that species because it comes imperiled, and

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Speaker 1: then over time you recover it, you will naturally like

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have friction when you want to reinstate a

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Speaker 1: hunt because people in their minds, for as far as

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Speaker 1: they can remember, back the bears there are not around, Like,

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Speaker 1: how can we be hunting? I thought bears are imperiled

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Speaker 1: and like they're not recovered. And also now you're telling

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Speaker 1: me we're gonna hunt them. I've known my whole life

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Speaker 1: that that you can't hunt them because right so you're

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Speaker 1: gonna have friction, And that created a lot of friction,

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Speaker 1: so much so that they just it was the agency

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Speaker 1: was beat up on the whole thing. Again, biologically insigt significant,

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Speaker 1: but it was socially very significant that in some areas

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Speaker 1: they went over the quota and then Florida just said, okay,

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Speaker 1: we're done with bear hunting. They're trying again now, which

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Speaker 1: I fully support. They're trying again, and this time they're

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Speaker 1: using the other way you do this. The other way

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Speaker 1: you do this is you say you say, Okay, everybody

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Speaker 1: can't go. We're not going to do that. Everybody goes thing,

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Speaker 1: and the quota we're going to do where only some

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Speaker 1: of you get to go. And I think they're probably

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Speaker 1: doing a quota too right on top of that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they have it. They have a mount they want. They're

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Speaker 1: issuing one hundred and eighty seven bear permits, So now

437
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: they know how many people are going to be a field.

438
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 1: They're going to issue one hundred and eighty seven bear permits.

439
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: And what are they look at that? I know they

440
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: have some quotas in place. I can't find it here.

441
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 7: It's right, So what is it provide like tons of

442
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 7: opportunity for with the expectation that there's it's theoretical opportunity,

443
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:12,919
Speaker 7: the expectation of actual opportunity is much much lower. In

444
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 7: that twenty fifteen hunt, the state didn't properly estimate the

445
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 7: actual opportunity in the field, meaning that a lot more

446
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 7: people who in theory wouldn't be successful were in a

447
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 7: very short amount of time. And it's a great fundraising mechanism, right,

448
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,360
Speaker 7: because you get to sell a ton of permets. And

449
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 7: this is just exactly how like wolf tags in the

450
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 7: state of Montana function. Everybody buys a wolf tag, very

451
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,439
Speaker 7: very very few people put in any actual effort to

452
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 7: target wolves. Specifically. It's like a animal of opportunity versus

453
00:24:58,640 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 7: strict pursuit.

454
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 1: I buy them sons of bitches every year and never

455
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:02,479
Speaker 1: do anything different.

456
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,880
Speaker 7: Exactly, yeah, exactly, yes.

457
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: This will this will impact my behavior zero.

458
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 7: But then there's that other group of people who are

459
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 7: like I am specifically dedicating time in the pursuit of wolves.

460
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 7: Corey Calvin's right, yep, he's happy either way.

461
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 1: He knows what you mean. So they're they're saying to

462
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,880
Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty seven people, hey, instead of letting

463
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 1: everybody go, you one hundred and eighty seven going, it's

464
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: gonna be easier to monitor this whole thing. And they

465
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: have a thing. So you buy a They're doing it

466
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 1: through a lottery democratic allocation five dollars lottery ticket. You

467
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,920
Speaker 1: buy as many chances as you want five bucks. If

468
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 1: you draw, though, then you got to buy the permit.

469
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: So if you're so like you win, well, then to

470
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: actually get your permit, then you got to come up

471
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 1: with more money. So it's five bucks to get in.

472
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 1: And if you draw, if you're a resident, your permit

473
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: is one hundred bucks. Your non resident, your permit is

474
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: three hundred bucks. Great deal. Now here's where it gets

475
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: Here's where it gets saucy. The uh uh Sierra Club

476
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 1: is pushing its members, Hey, save a bear. Buy all

477
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:28,479
Speaker 1: these lottery tickets and then don't use them if you win, Okay,

478
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: And they're like, that's how we're gonna save bears. Florida's

479
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 1: attitude about this is you guys can buy all the

480
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: tickets you want. That's great for you're generating all this thing.

481
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,360
Speaker 2: So they are a conservation organization again.

482
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: And if we don't hit the quota, then we know

483
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: next year we're just gonna release a lot more.

484
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 7: Yeah.

485
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: Right, So it's like, you know, okay, this is the

486
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: thing that's been tried before. Like I don't know if

487
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 1: you remember Wyoming Grizzlies. Yeah, and the catch there, you're

488
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 1: ago when they moved to dlist grizzly bears in Wyoming,

489
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 1: they were gonna do you remember twenty four They were

490
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: gonna issue twenty four permits.

491
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, I was an Idaho resident at the time, so

492
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 7: I actually was in the drawing.

493
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 1: Oh, you were in the draw for the one tag,

494
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 1: for the one tag. Yeah. And then in Wyoming some

495
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: guys went out and there was a big push to

496
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 1: get none hunters to try to get the permit, but

497
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: they never did the draw, so you never could wind

498
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: up seeing. Uh, it'll be it'll be interesting to it'll

499
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 1: be interesting to see. I could picture that what they

500
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,199
Speaker 1: might do. Like if I was in Florida fishing games

501
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 1: shoes the agency shoes for Florida Wildlife Commission. I guess

502
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 1: is who approved the bear hunt rule. I would be

503
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 1: wondering should we should we make it a greater hurdle

504
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: to enter, meaning you got to go and let's say

505
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,439
Speaker 1: you gotta be licensed, fully licensed, you got to go

506
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 1: and take an online bear identification class so you learn

507
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 1: how to tell a female with cubs, or like what

508
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 1: I like money, Would I make it more of a.

509
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 2: Pain in the ass to filter out the preservationists.

510
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: To filter out anti hunters, or would I just really

511
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 1: be like, no, I want all those five dollars.

512
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 4: So they've sold they've sold more than one hundred and

513
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 4: sixty thousand chances have they Yeah, Florida for one hundred

514
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 4: and eighty seven tags.

515
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 2: Good for them, good for conservation.

516
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: Someone could tell me a lot of times five dollars is.

517
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 2: It's about a million?

518
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 7: I would you can grow anything in Florida. Literally, if

519
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 7: I was one of those bear tag holders, That's what

520
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 7: I would be concentrated. I'd be like, what mix of

521
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 7: food do I want in the black Bear? I'm going

522
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 7: to target apple region right like where? Yeah, that'd be exciting, Yeah, exactly.

523
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's yeah to have.

524
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 7: Or even have to. Yeah.

525
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: My favorite word lately is it's a it's a situation

526
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: that's gotten frothy. I heard that in the market, like

527
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: in the markets listening to markets about the new frothy

528
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: like a lot of M and a a lot of

529
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,479
Speaker 1: M and a activity out there. He'd be like, it's

530
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: a frothy.

531
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 2: Can you snacks? You should have be a frothy something.

532
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, frothy classic, Yeah, I would say, yeah.

533
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: What a final point on this, it's like a little

534
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: bit sticky. I feel for Sierra Club. It's like, how

535
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: is it cool for like is it cool for Sierra

536
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 1: Club to be? Is it cool for Sierra Club to be?

537
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 1: Like not only do we not support the State agency, right,

538
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: the state biologists and the State Agency is doing this.

539
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: Not only do we not support their mission, we're we're

540
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: promoting the idea that you try to like thwart right. Yeah,

541
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: the effort, which seems to me like that's a that's

542
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:06,959
Speaker 1: an aggressive play.

543
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 2: They're always aggressive.

544
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: That's an aggressive play.

545
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 3: Their whole thing is being aggressive. Oh yeah, I mean

546
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 3: they only raise money off of being aggressive. They're almost

547
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 3: a billion dollar annual organization every year because they raise

548
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 3: money off of being anti whatever the other groups are for.

549
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 3: That's they actually want sort of this this coverage even

550
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 3: because the conflict.

551
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 1: This fill the conflict.

552
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 3: They love that Donald Trump's president because they can raise

553
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 3: all the money in the world of being against everything

554
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 3: that he does. And when things are good and you're

555
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 3: solving problems, it's harder to rile people up. They love

556
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 3: riling people up. They're the problem in my opinion.

557
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: It's funny bring it up because Randall and I were

558
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: talking you have today about I don't even want to

559
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: kind of get into this, but we were talking about

560
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: please I'm glad that I'm just gonna be real quick

561
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: about it. We're talking about tail and all ah.

562
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 6: As one does on.

563
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: A Wednesday, trying to explain and Randall is trying to capture.

564
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: If I go on to social media and I want

565
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: to find out what people how people feel about Tailano,

566
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: I will come away with a different impression of what

567
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: people feel about Tylanh the thing I would if I

568
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: was just going about my existence in life.

569
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 4: If you hold up a newspaper and start eavesdropping, there

570
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 4: are people pounding the table about Thailand.

571
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 3: I mean, at this point we should start creating like

572
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 3: pro tail and all anti thailandolf swag.

573
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: I feel that a lot of people are actually out

574
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: there thinking like, huh, that was kind of weird.

575
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 2: What side are you on your pick?

576
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 7: Fighter Ye when.

577
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: He takes the national temperature, he feels the national temperature

578
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: in spite of what was happening in the news. The

579
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 1: national temperature was huh.

580
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 6: I guess I'll go to work today.

581
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 3: Well, our leaders are fighting about what silent Yeah, I

582
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 3: followed it autism, and I.

583
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 7: Will point out the tag buying strategy I know back

584
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 7: to the bears, the buddy of mine drew the Upper

585
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 7: Rock Creek big Horned Sheep tag when it was still good,

586
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 7: and the jackasses who locked out all the public access

587
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 7: and Upper Rock Creek weren't there. The UH ran into

588
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 7: two guys, father's son who had drawn the Lower Rock

589
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 7: Creek a couple of the U tags.

590
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: And this is back in the days. They're just standing

591
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 1: along the road.

592
00:32:55,160 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 7: Yes exactly, ye, And we're chatting with them and they're like, oh,

593
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 7: we're non hunters, we just bought we apply for tags,

594
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 7: and then we come out like wildlife Watch and this

595
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 7: is how we save animals. And that was back in

596
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 7: probably I bet like four five.

597
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: They were pioneers, early adopters.

598
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, so, I mean it was, it has been a

599
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 7: strategy in the past.

600
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes I mean it seems like you could

601
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 1: take everyone on the planet and have them all forget everything,

602
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: and then have new people come and I think those

603
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: new people would quickly oh hit on the idea that

604
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: this could be a thing one could do.

605
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, for sure.

606
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're like, uh huh.

607
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 7: Yeah, well, I mean we were just talking about this.

608
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 7: I missed the big party last night because I was

609
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 7: at the public land water access.

610
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: I was able to track your movements through a way

611
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: that you would never anticipate. Oh, your next door, my

612
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: neighbor is on the board. Yeah, so I knew where

613
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: you were before you knew where you were.

614
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 7: That was great. Yeah, we chatted for a little bit,

615
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 7: but you could. I brought up in my talk last night.

616
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 7: I'm like, you know this public Lands fight. You know,

617
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 7: these people fought this in the thirties, forties, fifties, and

618
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:26,240
Speaker 7: people were like where I thought, we just won that, right.

619
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:30,919
Speaker 2: Like this does happened before? Thought, Yeah, it will happen

620
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 2: again sooner than we'd like.

621
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,839
Speaker 1: Kel it sound ten year cycle, I think, thanks, Yeah,

622
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: well that's tens like snow hairs plus three years.

623
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 2: And it's going to happen sooner again.

624
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 7: Oh I know.

625
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: So unfortunately, first off, man, give us some background. You're

626
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 1: from Green Bay, yep, go pack Yeah is it Benjamin?

627
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 1: Benjamin Packer Benjamin? But so will you shortened? Most guys

628
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 1: go all the way down to bed then?

629
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, nobody.

630
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 3: I wanted to kept some Yeah, yeah, I had kept

631
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 3: a little extra little tail there called Benji.

632
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

633
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,399
Speaker 3: I second grade woke up and said I don't want

634
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 3: to have been Benjamin's too long, So Benji it is.

635
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,280
Speaker 2: But thanks.

636
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

637
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 3: I grew up in Green Bay and I watched John

638
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 3: McCain and Barack Obama debate in two thousand and eight

639
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 3: and said, I want to be part of that for.

640
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 2: The whole ten.

641
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 1: You were like, I want to be a detective, right,

642
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 1: or a.

643
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:28,919
Speaker 3: Sports announcer or an NFL player. I'm five nine, There's

644
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 3: no way I'm becoming an NFL player. But yeah, I

645
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 3: was like, I really want to be part of the

646
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 3: civic process, and so I started. I asked my parents,

647
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 3: who were not political at all, can we go? Can

648
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 3: I go door knocking for John McCain? And they were like,

649
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 3: that is the weirdest thing that you could ask us

650
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 3: to do. And my parents were not political at all,

651
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 3: and they did not want to have signs in their

652
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 3: yard or bumper stickers in their cars or any of

653
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 3: that stuff. And I just was like allured by the process.

654
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 3: And so I became super active in high school in

655
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 3: conservative politics and spoke at Seapack. My freshman year of

656
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 3: high school was on Fox News for the first time.

657
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 3: My freshman year of high school, I had a really

658
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 3: good biber haircut. My Wisconsin accent was really intense, and

659
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 3: I knew nothing about what I was doing, obviously, but

660
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 3: I cared a lot about America was really what it

661
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 3: came down to and like I wanted to be a

662
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 3: part of solving complex problems. But I have since grown

663
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 3: more and more disillusioned with politics and I hate the

664
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 3: two party system. I hate the political system that we're

665
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 3: working within, and I hate how it's impacted the environment

666
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 3: and conservation. Because at the same time that I was

667
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 3: strangely volunteering for John McCay and Meant Romney, I also

668
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 3: was an avid hiker avid skier, was fishing every weekend

669
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 3: in the summer with my grandpa. My parents were vegan,

670
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,399
Speaker 3: so oh yeah, So I was the only meat eater

671
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 3: in my family. So I'm like the as I didn't

672
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 3: meat eater in my family, so it's nice to be another.

673
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:07,879
Speaker 3: My parents were just, I think, like most people were

674
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 3: just like whoever has the best ideas they're going to

675
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:16,879
Speaker 3: vote for. Like they they're conservatives, practical fiscal conservatives. They

676
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 3: voted for McCain and Romney, but like they were definitely

677
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 3: like independent voters. And my sisters are liberal. And I

678
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 3: grew up in a very like politically diverse family, but

679
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 3: we all got along and we all loved each other,

680
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 3: and so I was frustrated politics. I loved the environment,

681
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 3: and I also realized that people could actually get along

682
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 3: and that the country that I was seeing crumble politically

683
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 3: and it's still getting worse, was not representative of the

684
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 3: people itself. Like the people themselves don't want that to happen,

685
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 3: and they're not as polarized, they're not putting each other

686
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 3: in such boxes. And so that's kind of how I

687
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 3: got to being more of, you know, trying to bridge

688
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,439
Speaker 3: the divide on conservation in the environment, because if there's

689
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 3: one issue that should transcend party lines that should get

690
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 3: action regardless of who wins, it should be conservation in

691
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 3: the environment like it used to. So I transitioned to

692
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 3: that my freshman year of college, tweeted out that I

693
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 3: was going to start a nonprofit to get this going.

694
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 1: As a freshman in college. Yeah, yeah, I knew. I

695
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 1: knew when you did it that you were young, but

696
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: I hadn't thought about the fact that you're like, like

697
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 1: also being in college eighteen. Yeah, because normally it's like, well,

698
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,800
Speaker 1: I'm a freshman college and I have to drink a lot,

699
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: and then that's kind of my schedule.

700
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, girls, drinking time.

701
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 1: To hang out, standard smoking weed. I have a hard

702
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: time finding a hangout time.

703
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 3: I was starting environmental policy nonprofits instead, Well, where were

704
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 3: you at school?

705
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 2: University of Washington.

706
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 3: So I searched the best business school, best business schools

707
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 3: in America and went down the list to the first

708
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 3: one that was in a place that I could hike

709
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 3: and ski on the weekends. And the University of Washington

710
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 3: was like probably like fortieth on the list of best

711
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 3: business schools, but it was the closest to where I

712
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 3: wanted to recreate. So the Cascades obviously beautiful national parks

713
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 3: out there, and that's really why I went there. So

714
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 3: then I started it out there, and I started, you know.

715
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: And like registered a nonprofit.

716
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I first started a pack because I had know

717
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 3: what I was doing and I.

718
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:20,399
Speaker 2: Was all done that, just me eighteen looking up.

719
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 3: So what's the quickest way to start a nonprofit? Well,

720
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 3: a pack gets approved right away.

721
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 6: Classic freshman you're a mistake.

722
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, you look wake up and you look at

723
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 7: all the texts that you sent out that you don't remember,

724
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 7: and then you're like, oh my god, one.

725
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: Of those I was you.

726
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 3: I highly recommend because there's basically zero barriers of entry.

727
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: I know this, I mean, I know I know what

728
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 1: it is, but I didn't know that is it designed

729
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:52,720
Speaker 1: to be fast?

730
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 2: It shouldn't be.

731
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 3: But like if you want to start, if you want

732
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:58,719
Speaker 3: an eighteen year old accidentally starts a pack and then

733
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 3: suddenly is the owner of a pack, and then there's

734
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 3: no like the I R. S checks five to one

735
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 3: C three's traditional nonprofits. It takes like a year to

736
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 3: approve that a packets approved literally overnight.

737
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: To help people. I mostly know what you're talking about,

738
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: but just help people understand, like what you mean. So

739
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 1: there's different designations, political actual committee.

740
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:18,720
Speaker 2: There's diferent designations.

741
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: They're ephemeral, right, because you can they're very responsive to

742
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,839
Speaker 1: I mean, like like a race heats up, you get

743
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: a nominee, and then all of a sudden, there's all

744
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 1: these packs, right, and some of them are meant to dissolve.

745
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 2: That's because there's a lot of eighteen year olds starting packs.

746
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 7: The most visibility right for the normal person is that

747
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 7: fine print that says paid for by right Concerned Citizens

748
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 7: for Montana.

749
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 6: Factory twenty four.

750
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no one knows who it is.

751
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:47,879
Speaker 3: In this case, it was me, but you know it's

752
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 3: it's basically a political action committee. There's a super pack

753
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 3: in a pack, but it's it's a government designation of

754
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 3: what you can do with the money when someone donates it.

755
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 3: And so, uh, like a five to one C three,

756
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 3: which is like the Red Cross, and like all the

757
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 3: big nonprofits they you're aware of that's tax deductible to

758
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 3: a donor, they can't do any political activity at all.

759
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 3: A pack you do not get a tax deduction when

760
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 3: you donate, and it strictly is going to be to

761
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 3: support candidates, like you're supporting political candidates. There's no educational

762
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 3: part of it. It's it's it's a political organization. And

763
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 3: so I was like, wait a second, I'm trying to

764
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 3: like bridge the divide on the environment. I'm not trying

765
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,240
Speaker 3: to like donate to candidates. So then I quickly shuddered

766
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 3: the weekend mistake.

767
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 7: But a pack is it would be is a five

768
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 7: to one C four, right, So.

769
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 2: That's very complicated.

770
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 3: But no, because if I on C four, this is like,

771
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 3: this is like zero point one hundred of the things

772
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:36,359
Speaker 3: that you don't wish you new at age twenty seven

773
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 3: the difference between the C four and the pack. But

774
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 3: a C four is a non tax deductible organization that

775
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 3: can lobby, but they don't really donate. You can donate

776
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 3: to candidates, but it's like a certain percentage. A pack

777
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 3: is strictly to get people elected, and.

778
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 2: That was not my goal.

779
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 6: It's a money funnel.

780
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 3: It's a money funnel, and it's basically so people can't

781
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 3: trace the money to dark money. It is honestly dark money,

782
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 3: and it's like anyone can donate and then it's not

783
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 3: traced back to them and no one knows where the

784
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 3: money came from. So the whole nonprofit space is very complicated,

785
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 3: and I think it probably designed partially that way. The

786
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 3: money in politics thing is its own really big issue.

787
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 1: But what was your pack?

788
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 3: Conservatives for Environmental Reform? And basically my original goal was

789
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 3: to get conservatives back to the table on the environment

790
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 3: because I watched Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton debate, and

791
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 3: Hillary Clinton had a radical plan for the environment that

792
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 3: I didn't agree with that was like shut down industry,

793
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 3: very preservationist. Wasn't about hunting or fishing or anything with

794
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 3: the outdoors. It was largely just climate, climate, climate, but

795
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 3: on the extreme end. And then Donald Trump was like,

796
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 3: none of these problems exist and we shouldn't do anything

797
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 3: about them, and he had no plan. I was like,

798
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 3: what the hell am I supposed to do? And I

799
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 3: leaned right, So I was like, I got to get

800
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 3: conservatives back to the table. So that's kind of the

801
00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:00,879
Speaker 3: origin story of what became the American Conservation Coalition, which

802
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 3: I still started my freshman year just after.

803
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 6: The pack mistake second semester.

804
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 1: You always.

805
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 3: Turn it to the five to one C three, and

806
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:13,240
Speaker 3: that organization now is one hundred thousand members across the country,

807
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 3: has big staff, does a lot of work in DC.

808
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 3: It is strictly focused on getting conservatives active on the environment.

809
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 3: But to me, that wasn't far enough because to me,

810
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 3: it's not about the labels. Like the rational majority of

811
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 3: Americans across the political spectrum, as I opened saying, want

812
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 3: the same things, and I don't care if it's Martin

813
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 3: Heinrich or Tim Sheehey or Donald Trump or Kamala Harris.

814
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 3: We got to figure out how to get shit done

815
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,240
Speaker 3: no matter who's in office and what the political wins

816
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 3: are in that moment, and we have to show politicians

817
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,760
Speaker 3: that Americans want this, not just conservatives and not just liberals.

818
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 3: We need to show them that Americans across the spectrum

819
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 3: want action. So I thought getting conservative to the table

820
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 3: was helpful. But there's no organization in this country right

821
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 3: now that hasn't impact no matter who wins. The Sierra Club,

822
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 3: even the Nature Conservancy, any of these traditional environmental groups,

823
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 3: They're only relevant when democrats win. And the organization I

824
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 3: started in college is only relevant when Republicans win. What

825
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 3: about an organization that's just trying to move consistent conservation

826
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 3: through no matter what, and no matter who you are politically,

827
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 3: you want to be a part of that movement. And

828
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 3: that's the vision of nature as nonpartisans. So it kind

829
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,359
Speaker 3: of went from a pack mistake to a conservative group

830
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 3: to now building upon that to try to build a

831
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 3: nonpartisan movement in America.

832
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: Again, let's start with the let's start with the polar opposite.

833
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 1: So what year was it, twenty sixteen? I guess twenty fifteen. Yep.

834
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 2: That was my senior high school freshman year of Colusus.

835
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 1: Where you had two visions yep. One one being a

836
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: vision of denial, YEP one being a vision of offering

837
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: a fix that isn't going to get wide spread buy in. Yeah,

838
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: I could picture that if you were like a picture

839
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 1: that if you were a staunch Democrat, because of all

840
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:10,359
Speaker 1: their other planks in their platform that you might say, Man,

841
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: I need to go get my party to start getting more.

842
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 7: In line.

843
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 1: With Middle America so that we can win and I

844
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: can get my other policy pieces in that play right,

845
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 1: Like we're losing on the same way you might say

846
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: in twenty in the last election cycle, like if you were,

847
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 1: if you were, if you're sitting there thinking, man, the

848
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 1: tax structure in America is whacked. Corporations should be paying

849
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 1: way more taxes, the poor should be paying way less taxes.

850
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,880
Speaker 1: But that's never going to happen because our party is

851
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 1: going to continue to get slammed on DEI issues. I

852
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,839
Speaker 1: need them to stop it about that so we can

853
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 1: stick to the things that most of the country like.

854
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 1: That's our Achilles heel right, right, Like I can picture that,

855
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: But what's hard for me to picture is the process

856
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 1: of saying that, like to be like, I'm a conservative,

857
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: I want bigger environmental presence within my party. I want

858
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 1: them to come around in my way of thinking. I

859
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 1: feel that that would be like very private.

860
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 2: For the politicians.

861
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: For you, oh for me, I feel like that's you

862
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 1: having meetings with politicians, Yeah, because you can't burn them

863
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 1: you feel that you like, you can't publicly burn them. Well. Now,

864
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:38,839
Speaker 1: the same way, if I was doing my whole thing,

865
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,919
Speaker 1: I might go and say, hey, listen, tone it down,

866
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: tone it down. I'm like athletes, like who plays on

867
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 1: what team?

868
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 3: But I could do I could do that. I could

869
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 3: do that, but that's not morally right to me. I

870
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 3: could be in the Trump administration right now, or have

871
00:46:58,080 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 3: some really high position if I just played the game.

872
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 3: I don't care about playing the game. I want to

873
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 3: get conservation outcomes. And so I'm willing to be bolder

874
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 3: because of that, and I'm willing to take on both

875
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 3: sides because a spotlight like, hey, you guys are freaking

876
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 3: weak here, and you're losing people. And by the way,

877
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 3: I'm not afraid to say, you should lose people because

878
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,359
Speaker 3: you don't have an environmental plan. You should lose people

879
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 3: because you don't care about conservation. You should lose people

880
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 3: because you don't have any plan for clean air clean water.

881
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 3: But yet you use those terms in your speeches, right Like,

882
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 3: you say you want clean air and clean water, but

883
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 3: yet you're rolling back some of the most important regulations

884
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 3: and policies in American history. I'm not afraid to say

885
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:38,919
Speaker 3: that because I don't care about who. I actually don't

886
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 3: care about who wins. In high school, I might have

887
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 3: cared I expose a seatback and stuff, but I do

888
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 3: not care who wins. I'm an environmentalist, conservationist, nature lover

889
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,919
Speaker 3: person who wants to protect wild places and allow people

890
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:54,840
Speaker 3: to go hunt, fish recreate in them so that we

891
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 3: can also have a healthy livelihood more than I care

892
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 3: about any political identity. And I think most people when

893
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 3: they think about this issue, do you think about it

894
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 3: that way? So people think I mean. In the last

895
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 3: couple of weeks, I've this famous EPA transition guy for

896
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 3: Trump just wrote a big hit piece on me that

897
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 3: I was like this trojan horse at Climate Week, just

898
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 3: trying to promote the Green New Deal, and I get

899
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,439
Speaker 3: told that I'm all the time some like maga guy.

900
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 2: It's because I don't really care.

901
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 1: Like we're quite familiar with it.

902
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, you guys definitely get that.

903
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:29,800
Speaker 1: We're quite clear that you're like everyone.

904
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 2: Like you get in the box, and I don't want

905
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 2: to be in the box.

906
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, so don't you say anything. Just get in the box.

907
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:41,919
Speaker 2: And just say what we want you to say.

908
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 3: But that would work I mean, so I've been starting

909
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 3: to talk about this a little bit more because of

910
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 3: the light of recent events. I co founded, and I've

911
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:51,840
Speaker 3: never said this in a podcast for but I've I

912
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 3: co founded Turning Point us say, with Charlie kirk Oh

913
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 3: in twenty twelve. I was fourteen years old, so just

914
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 3: it was a lot long time ago. The organization was

915
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,800
Speaker 3: supposed to be about young people standing up to the

916
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 3: government to prevent the national debt from getting worse.

917
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:09,359
Speaker 1: That was the turning point.

918
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,359
Speaker 2: Yes, that was the founding origin of Turning Point.

919
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 1: Like, you guys are gonna really stick it to You're

920
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:21,959
Speaker 1: really sticking it to us, right our generation. Yeah, later,

921
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,359
Speaker 1: Like at some point we're gonna have to tackle this. Yeah,

922
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: at some point, you're creating a real headache for us.

923
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 1: So please make my future not so tenuous exactly.

924
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 3: So Charlie and I had this vision for that. Charlie,

925
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,800
Speaker 3: that was a very tragic event, and it was a

926
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 3: very perfect opportunity to see how divided our country is becoming,

927
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 3: which is a huge problem. But what Charlie saw was

928
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 3: that there was an opportunity in playing into the political

929
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 3: culture war. Right, if I wanted to be a part

930
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:57,720
Speaker 3: of the culture War. For the sake of telling people

931
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 3: how to win voters or or how to get people

932
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 3: a part of our team or box, I'd be doing

933
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 3: things so much differently than I am. And again I

934
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 3: could have many times. But it is ruining our country

935
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 3: and it's ruining conservation as well. And so for me,

936
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 3: when I wake up every morning, I think of how

937
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 3: much progress can I make given the political shit that

938
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:27,399
Speaker 3: we're in, Because for the first time in a long time,

939
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 3: our environment is getting worse in America. Again, we actually

940
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 3: solved a lot of big problems for a very long time.

941
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 3: We funded public lands, We had the Clean Air Act

942
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 3: and Clean Water Act take care of really bad problems

943
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:40,880
Speaker 3: in our cities and in our rivers. We had the

944
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 3: Endangered Species Act, which was effective for a couple of years.

945
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:47,760
Speaker 3: There is sorely in effective. Wildfires are getting worse, public

946
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 3: lands are getting worse, the management of our ecosystems is

947
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,439
Speaker 3: getting so much worse. Our water quality is getting worse.

948
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 3: And you know what the byproduct of all that is is,

949
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 3: because it is the byproduct of the division that we're saying.

950
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 3: Because no one actually has an incentive to solve problems.

951
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 3: They have an incentive to feed the culture wars. And

952
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 3: until we change that incentive, at least on this I

953
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:12,720
Speaker 3: can't promise that we can change it on every issue.

954
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 3: But until we create a movement that just says we

955
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 3: expect you to get shit done and we're not going

956
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:21,399
Speaker 3: to vote for you if you don't prioritize conservation, that's

957
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,320
Speaker 3: actually the part that we should be saying out loud.

958
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:25,439
Speaker 3: That's the part that we should be saying out loud,

959
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:29,320
Speaker 3: because it's not just about killing animals for recreation and

960
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 3: hiking and skiing and all the things.

961
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:33,360
Speaker 2: That we all love, right It's not just about that.

962
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:35,320
Speaker 3: The health of our environment is about the health of

963
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 3: us too, and right now we are failing miserably, and

964
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 3: the left doesn't care, and the right doesn't care. They

965
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 3: care about winning the next election, and that is where

966
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:47,360
Speaker 3: the root of our environmental problems comes from. And so

967
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 3: I say that to say, I could go down this

968
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 3: path of playing into the culture wars, but I wouldn't

969
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 3: be sitting at this table right now, and I absolutely

970
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 3: wouldn't be fighting for our environment because it's way easier

971
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:00,120
Speaker 3: to make a name for yourself and get power and

972
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 3: get you know, influence right now off of doing things

973
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 3: completely differently. But at some point, at some point, Americans

974
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 3: are going to wake up and realize that the system

975
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:12,080
Speaker 3: right now is screwing us all and it's also screwing

976
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 3: up our environment. Uh.

977
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: That's what I'm backup common on the thing you brought

978
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 1: up with, just how hot like how he did the

979
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 1: how he did the online I always want to point

980
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 1: this out, how he did the online experiences right, Oh, totally.

981
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:38,800
Speaker 1: Now for Charlie Kirk, Yeah, it wasn't an online experience. No,

982
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 1: that was a way that online like became a bullet

983
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 1: in real life. Yeah, and like killed a man. Right,

984
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm saying. I have this thing,

985
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 1: and I've brought it up. I brought up to ten

986
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 1: guests talking about various things. I think I was most

987
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 1: recently talking about with Sebastian Younger, where I'm like, there's

988
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 1: what I under stand to be true about the climate

989
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 1: in America from social media, the news, and then there's

990
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 1: what I understand to be true about America from being

991
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 1: an American, Yes, from going about my business and I

992
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,880
Speaker 1: had I met someone for breakfast this morning. Yeah, the

993
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: conversations we had on the street with people, the interactions

994
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 1: we had with the people that were working there, like

995
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 1: the whole picture. I would never come out of my

996
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:35,800
Speaker 1: morning being like, good lord, everyone's the country's falling apart.

997
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 1: I'd be like, this seems like a wonderful country. This

998
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 1: is this America. This is awesome being an American. But

999
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: then I go and look about what it is and

1000
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:52,479
Speaker 1: it's red hot, and and and with with Charlie Kirk,

1001
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 1: like I was like, man, and many other examples, this

1002
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,879
Speaker 1: is this was because it's fresh. With Charlie Kirk was like, Man,

1003
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 1: they collide, they are they collide.

1004
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 3: And then we're manifesting it to become It used to

1005
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:08,800
Speaker 3: just be an online thing I used to get. I

1006
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 3: got death threats in high school for what I was

1007
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 3: doing politically, I had.

1008
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 1: Because people don't like because it's it's too unexpected, right,

1009
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 1: it's too unexpected to see a woman that killed a

1010
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,000
Speaker 1: lion in Afta that.

1011
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 3: That's gonna go viral off more than more than making

1012
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:29,319
Speaker 3: phone calls. And my voice hadn't even changed yet. Okay,

1013
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:31,920
Speaker 3: I was just a little boy, But yeah, I mean

1014
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 3: that they're the chronically online world, which is so disconnected

1015
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 3: from reality. I mean, I had breakfast with Van Jones

1016
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 3: yesterday in New York City, the big social justice liberal

1017
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:46,520
Speaker 3: commentator see an guy I don't recognize that name, CNN host. Yeah,

1018
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 3: but he's black social justice guy.

1019
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:49,919
Speaker 2: We don't.

1020
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 3: He's one of my best friends. I don't talk to

1021
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:53,919
Speaker 3: him about politics. I just love him as a human,

1022
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 3: you know. Like, and my mom's like, oh, what, you know,

1023
00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 3: what what issues did you guys talk about? I'm like,

1024
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 3: we literally didn't. He just give me advice and how

1025
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 3: to be a better leader. And we were just talking

1026
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 3: about life and his girl, his fiance and all that stuff.

1027
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 3: That is how most of America actually operates on a

1028
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 3: day to day basis. But then you look online and

1029
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 3: you see what But we're becoming a chronically online nation.

1030
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 3: I mean, you look at the average screen time in

1031
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,839
Speaker 3: this country, and it's not people looking at candy crush, right,

1032
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 3: it's people looking at Twitter and Instagram and feeding themselves

1033
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 3: the worst information. And we are convincing ourselves that everyone

1034
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 3: else is actually evil, like Hitler level evil for both

1035
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 3: sides to think about the other side. So it is

1036
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 3: colliding now. For a while, it was just like, oh yeah,

1037
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 3: just turn off the social media. It's just it's not

1038
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:38,319
Speaker 3: that bad in real life. Well, it's becoming that bat

1039
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:40,120
Speaker 3: in real life because we're manifesting.

1040
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 1: You, because it's some dude on a roof of the gun, right,

1041
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:43,440
Speaker 1: and people takes one.

1042
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 6: It only takes one to.

1043
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:49,880
Speaker 1: Bring it out of the yeah right, and man it

1044
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 1: has a yeah. It's like it's been I look. I

1045
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 1: brought that up as a preamble to say I got

1046
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 1: a fifteen year old. The insanity that he comes home

1047
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 1: and he's you know, he comes home and it's just.

1048
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 7: Like and then it was like, Dad, here's some solid facts.

1049
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 1: I know. It's not even that, it's more like a

1050
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:19,320
Speaker 1: what do you He kind of comes home with like

1051
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 1: what do I make of this? Right? And just the

1052
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 1: insane things, the insane things that are being spun out

1053
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 1: of that it's just this A long preamble led me

1054
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 1: to like I hit a point a week like some

1055
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:37,279
Speaker 1: time ago. A week ago, I hit a point where

1056
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:42,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, dude, I am like, I was like, I

1057
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: am ready at my age, I'm ready to just I'm

1058
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 1: going to step away from discourse. I mean I'm not,

1059
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:52,600
Speaker 1: but for a minute, I for the first time in

1060
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 1: my life, I was like, I just don't want to

1061
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:56,880
Speaker 1: talk to anybody. Anymore. Like I don't want to participate

1062
00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 1: in the discourse anymore. I just want to be the

1063
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 1: guy that only knows about who he runs into at

1064
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 1: the hardware store. It's like, I'll go to the Harvard

1065
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:09,399
Speaker 1: store because that's going to be cool.

1066
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:10,399
Speaker 2: We have to bring that back.

1067
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:13,959
Speaker 1: I'll go wherever. I'll go to my buddies party because

1068
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:17,960
Speaker 1: that's going to be cool. But I can't do anything.

1069
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 1: It didn't last and it's not for real. But I

1070
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 1: just had a point where I'm like, I'm just done. Man,

1071
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 1: Like I'm done because that style of that style of

1072
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:34,160
Speaker 1: uh debating or that style of like exploring ideas is

1073
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 1: like it's rational conversation. Hey, like I understand what you're saying,

1074
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 1: but I don't agree. Is pass a?

1075
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it's absolutely not the norm anymore. And I feel,

1076
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 3: so do you give up?

1077
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 4: No?

1078
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 2: I think we got to play the game.

1079
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 1: Okay, what's the game?

1080
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 2: The game is, let's let's talk about the environment.

1081
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:54,240
Speaker 1: How do you play the game?

1082
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 3: We have to create a similar movement around culture shifting

1083
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 3: for conservation that that is in people's social media networks,

1084
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 3: it's it's in their communities, it's around them, because we

1085
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 3: are not going to beat the algorithm. We're not going

1086
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 3: to change people's tendencies to log on to social media

1087
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 3: whenever there's a break in their day, at least not

1088
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 3: anytime soon and see the worst news imaginable. We have

1089
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 3: to figure out how to meet people where they're at

1090
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 3: and help people understand that there's something they can advocate

1091
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 3: for right instead of just being like, oh my god,

1092
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 3: I hate this person, I hate this person, I hate

1093
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 3: this person.

1094
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 2: As a song, you have a little tune to that.

1095
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 1: Sometimes, you know what, I guarantee, I guarantee he goes

1096
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 1: in and takes that out of the show.

1097
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,200
Speaker 5: Just to prove you it's not going to happen. I'm

1098
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 5: not disturb but my one person I left through is

1099
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 5: my wife, and.

1100
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 1: So just breaks the whole flow during the show.

1101
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 7: Yeah, kind of piggyback a little bit off of what

1102
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 7: Steve said, but also just the the there isn't a

1103
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:17,080
Speaker 7: need I see, Well, it's going to be complicated. I

1104
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:21,160
Speaker 7: push back on the fact that like established conservation groups

1105
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 7: aren't making stuff happen under every administration. I mean they are,

1106
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:33,760
Speaker 7: maybe like the is the win that we're getting not

1107
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:36,000
Speaker 7: an actual win. A lot of times I believe that

1108
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:40,480
Speaker 7: for sure. Like I think if we are looking in

1109
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 7: terms of like, oh my gosh, the Democrats did this,

1110
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 7: that's such a win, that's not a win. If we're

1111
00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:49,440
Speaker 7: looking in terms of like, Okay, the Republicans did this,

1112
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:52,640
Speaker 7: that's a win, that's not a win. Agree. The win

1113
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:58,840
Speaker 7: is when it's there's certain things like the health of

1114
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:05,960
Speaker 7: are an natural resources are just this non starter for

1115
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:10,520
Speaker 7: every political party, Like it's assumed that these things have

1116
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:13,360
Speaker 7: got to have a certain level of health and management

1117
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:19,000
Speaker 7: because it does tie into national defense, the health of

1118
01:00:19,560 --> 01:00:24,439
Speaker 7: individuals within our country, mental and physical, and our food

1119
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 7: production and all the things like it does.

1120
01:00:28,120 --> 01:00:32,560
Speaker 3: But I would say the groups that are currently out there,

1121
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 3: there are so many good organizations, many of whom we

1122
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 3: both work with, but it's not getting the job done.

1123
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 3: And what I mean by that is there is no

1124
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:44,080
Speaker 3: cultural movement in America that's telling politicians they should take

1125
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:48,560
Speaker 3: the environment seriously as America, like as Americans, like the

1126
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 3: Human Rights Campaign, for example, you might disagree with gay

1127
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 3: marriage or you might love gay marriage. They showed politicians

1128
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:58,080
Speaker 3: they had a national campaign. Their bumper stickers are still

1129
01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 3: on people's cars all over the country that it was

1130
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 3: an expectation for almost all Americans that equality was important.

1131
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:08,200
Speaker 3: That's how they got it done. And obviously this is

1132
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:10,440
Speaker 3: a different issue because it's not just like one landmark

1133
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 3: thing that we need to get accomplished. We need continuous

1134
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:18,320
Speaker 3: But there was a national unified expectation of conservation thirty

1135
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 3: years ago that does not exist right now. So and

1136
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:25,520
Speaker 3: that is not the failure of these organizations, but it's

1137
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 3: not working. The current movement is not working. And the

1138
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 3: vast majority of people who do reach out for conservation

1139
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:34,880
Speaker 3: in the environment are left of center people, whether we

1140
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:36,800
Speaker 3: want to admit that or not. And until we make

1141
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 3: it left center and right, until we show no matter

1142
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 3: if you're a Republican or a Democrat, this was an

1143
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:45,800
Speaker 3: expectation of Americans that we're going to continue going down

1144
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 3: this trajectory where we don't get the policies that we need,

1145
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 3: and actually, even worse, we get the policies that none

1146
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 3: of us want, which is what we've been getting over

1147
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 3: the last year. And it's because there's not an expectation

1148
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 3: of pushback. The only time that I've seen it since

1149
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:03,600
Speaker 3: I became active in this space where it's actually worked

1150
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:07,080
Speaker 3: is this public land selloff where you had people from

1151
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:10,680
Speaker 3: across the political spectrum saying, no, over my dead body,

1152
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 3: you're going to sell this land. Right, But we haven't

1153
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 3: had a unified front like that on the environment for decades.

1154
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:19,920
Speaker 3: And we can try to push behind the scenes. And

1155
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 3: you know, like I love TRCP and t you and

1156
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 3: I know you know Chris and Joel and all these

1157
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 3: are great people running great organizations, but there's no national

1158
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 3: movement that represents what they believe is your.

1159
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 6: As far as like what you're doing.

1160
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 4: That's not that groups like TIERSCP aren't aren't doing currently,

1161
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:43,360
Speaker 4: You're talking about a coalition that expands beyond the Hunter

1162
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:48,560
Speaker 4: because I think the Hunter angler space has is unique

1163
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 4: in that it's it has that bipartisan.

1164
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:53,720
Speaker 1: Angle.

1165
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:56,840
Speaker 6: It's expanding that if I think beyond the hook and

1166
01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:57,440
Speaker 6: bullet I am.

1167
01:02:57,600 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 4: I am having a hard time thinking beyond the hook

1168
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 4: and at groups what like environmental policy groups have that

1169
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 4: same bipartisan influence because.

1170
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 7: Like I'll give you an example, right, Like I believe

1171
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 7: very strongly in the work that Pheasants Forever Quail Forever does,

1172
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 7: right and and it's like not super sexy working on

1173
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 7: the farm bill right.

1174
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:24,720
Speaker 3: Right, those groups are already there right, and they do

1175
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:27,400
Speaker 3: great stuff, but the culture in America is not there.

1176
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:31,720
Speaker 7: And and here's the example, right, is like, uh, it's

1177
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:35,440
Speaker 7: getting late in the election cycle, yea, all of a sudden,

1178
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 7: it's announced all over media that both parties need hunters.

1179
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:46,760
Speaker 7: Hunters are underrepresented in their demographics, their research, we need

1180
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 7: hunters at the polls. And here's this push from the

1181
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 7: Biden campaign at that point. It was it was the

1182
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 7: Biden campaign at that point.

1183
01:03:56,680 --> 01:03:58,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. And and then.

1184
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:01,360
Speaker 7: So it was like Byden Harris for hunters, and then

1185
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 7: and then the Trump campaign was pushing out hunter specific

1186
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 7: language as well.

1187
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 1: And then.

1188
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:16,920
Speaker 7: There's the annual Governor's hunt ye in Minnesota that pheasants

1189
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:21,440
Speaker 7: forever is always a part of, doesn't matter what uh

1190
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:26,440
Speaker 7: political affiliation the standing governor or current governor has, And

1191
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 7: that got kind of turned into like a Biden Harris

1192
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:36,720
Speaker 7: hunter moment that had nothing to do with pheasants forever,

1193
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:41,960
Speaker 7: and they just got absolutely shellact. They still are and

1194
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:48,040
Speaker 7: still are, yeah, and they're they're made to like swallow

1195
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:52,000
Speaker 7: this right rhetoric in order to quote unquote be in

1196
01:04:52,040 --> 01:04:58,560
Speaker 7: the room when it's like our history, our track record

1197
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:03,280
Speaker 7: says we will work with anybody in order to fulfill

1198
01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:07,680
Speaker 7: the mission, and the mission benefits everybody by the way, yep.

1199
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:13,440
Speaker 7: And the pushbacks on the organization that has this established

1200
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:19,280
Speaker 7: track record of nonpartisanship, the pushbacks not on the politicians

1201
01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:21,160
Speaker 7: that manifested all this bs.

1202
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 3: Right, that's true, But the political tenor of the conversation

1203
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 3: hitching your wagon to anybody politically right now is risky, right.

1204
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 3: I mean, Pheasans forever saw that, and they shouldn't have

1205
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:37,200
Speaker 3: been taken, you know, to the to the court for that.

1206
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:39,920
Speaker 3: They should have had Tim Waltz there. And that's not

1207
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:41,520
Speaker 3: a big deal, like it shouldn't be seen that way.

1208
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:45,360
Speaker 3: But I go back to the fact that like this

1209
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 3: public land sell off was almost a godsend in terms

1210
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 3: of giving an example of what I'm trying to build,

1211
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 3: which is, you had millions of people for the first

1212
01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 3: time in years, like you did win there's smog in

1213
01:05:58,040 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 3: the cities across the country, like we did when there

1214
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:03,960
Speaker 3: were rivers on fire in Ohio. Right, you had millions

1215
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:05,600
Speaker 3: of people saying I don't give a shit with my

1216
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:07,600
Speaker 3: political belief is, and honestly I don't. I voted for you,

1217
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:10,640
Speaker 3: Mike Lee, but I'm not for this. That's the cultural

1218
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:12,680
Speaker 3: movement that we need, and so I don't know how

1219
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:16,160
Speaker 3: to change that peasants forever situation, because that's very unfortunate

1220
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:17,160
Speaker 3: and they don't deserve that.

1221
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:19,600
Speaker 7: I guess succinctly, right, I'm like the the issues with

1222
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:21,120
Speaker 7: the politicians.

1223
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 2: Right, the issue is with the politicians, but there's also are.

1224
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:26,000
Speaker 7: The ones who are hitting the clickbait button.

1225
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 3: We're also falling for that right as a populace. Yeah,

1226
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:35,080
Speaker 3: and that's part of the problem too, And so how them, Well,

1227
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:39,000
Speaker 3: the issue is like tim the environment right now, if

1228
01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 3: you ask the average person on the street who owns

1229
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:46,720
Speaker 3: the environmental issue, almost everyone would say Democrats. Oh yeah, everyone,

1230
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:53,800
Speaker 3: So we like that, right, but even conservation people associate

1231
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:58,880
Speaker 3: We've done pulling and focus grouping. People associate these words conservation, environmentalist,

1232
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:03,960
Speaker 3: environment wordship, anything related to the environment as liberal coded

1233
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:05,840
Speaker 3: as Democrat coded words.

1234
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:11,120
Speaker 1: And so yes, some more than others, right, I completely agree.

1235
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:14,360
Speaker 3: But we've got to change that because like all these

1236
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:18,479
Speaker 3: words are being weaponized intentionally and unintentionally for people's gains,

1237
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:23,080
Speaker 3: whether that be clickbait or for campaigning. And you know,

1238
01:07:23,160 --> 01:07:25,480
Speaker 3: in the same way that like stand up for cancer

1239
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:27,960
Speaker 3: or stand up to cancer or the Human Rights Campaign

1240
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:30,240
Speaker 3: or the gott Milk Campaign, Like, we need to show

1241
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:33,800
Speaker 3: politicians that there is a cultural movement to help create

1242
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 3: space for the Pheasants Forever and the ducks and limiteds

1243
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:39,120
Speaker 3: and the trcps and the great organizations that are out

1244
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:40,760
Speaker 3: there to do the work that they need to do

1245
01:07:41,120 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 3: because right now it's basically Republicans are fearful of associating

1246
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:47,480
Speaker 3: with any conservation group as they are scared of being

1247
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:50,440
Speaker 3: seen as liberal, and the left is scared of the

1248
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:53,320
Speaker 3: far left coming at them for not going far enough

1249
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:56,720
Speaker 3: on like climate stuff. And so again, it's creating the

1250
01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:59,919
Speaker 3: cultural space. And we and there's so many great local

1251
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:02,640
Speaker 3: organizations out there already there. They're already there. There's so

1252
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:05,720
Speaker 3: many great topical based organizations out there, they're already there.

1253
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 3: But in the way that like the Sierra Club or

1254
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 3: NRDC or these groups could have been like the face

1255
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:15,720
Speaker 3: of America's environmental movement, conservation movement, rally people together for

1256
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 3: common sense conservation.

1257
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:19,200
Speaker 2: But didn't we need to create that.

1258
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:22,240
Speaker 3: And and I would say, I don't have every way

1259
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:25,679
Speaker 3: of getting there yet, but someone's got to try because

1260
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:29,479
Speaker 3: the current environmental culture is not working for us, and

1261
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:32,800
Speaker 3: there's no space for politicians to see that they have

1262
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:36,200
Speaker 3: to get something done except for the public. Land sell

1263
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:39,120
Speaker 3: off as like literally the first example in like a decade.

1264
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:46,439
Speaker 7: Yeah, I see, and I see this within the environmental space,

1265
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:50,320
Speaker 7: within the nonprofit space of a real disconnect with the

1266
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:53,880
Speaker 7: end consumer h just as I see it in the

1267
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:54,880
Speaker 7: political realm.

1268
01:08:56,360 --> 01:08:57,280
Speaker 1: The week of.

1269
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:01,720
Speaker 7: Land selloff language going in the house, right We're up

1270
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:06,439
Speaker 7: on Capitol Hill talking with everybody we could super back schedule,

1271
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:08,720
Speaker 7: and it was like, hey, don't worry, it's not going

1272
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:12,439
Speaker 7: to happen. But you heard over and over again the

1273
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:17,040
Speaker 7: exact same lines from everybody. And by the way, we're

1274
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:20,599
Speaker 7: not going to sell national parks. Don't worry, right, thank god?

1275
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:25,439
Speaker 1: As just as just in it as I've ever heard that, like, oh,

1276
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:28,479
Speaker 1: we're not talking about national parks. Didn't trust me. I

1277
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 1: didn't think you were.

1278
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:33,040
Speaker 2: Confirmed what I already knew.

1279
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:38,280
Speaker 7: And the you know, it's frustrating but eye opening too,

1280
01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 7: where you're like, Okay, something is going on, right because

1281
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:43,680
Speaker 7: everybody seems to have the exact same talking points and

1282
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:47,719
Speaker 7: they have no knowledge of the fact that the people

1283
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:50,200
Speaker 7: that are starting to push back right now have no

1284
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:54,040
Speaker 7: interest in the national parks or very little interest. Uh

1285
01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:57,599
Speaker 7: not because they don't care. But the assumption is parks

1286
01:09:57,600 --> 01:09:58,320
Speaker 7: are going to be safe.

1287
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:02,160
Speaker 3: I mean I had senior official in the total gistration

1288
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 3: tell me, hey, like Americans won't get upset about this

1289
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:09,080
Speaker 3: because Americans just care about national parks and national park health.

1290
01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 2: And I was like, do you realize have you like

1291
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:18,000
Speaker 2: a quick chat ebte? Quick? You know you're gonna research

1292
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:21,080
Speaker 2: it sounds like very quickly you're gonna help. You could

1293
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:21,640
Speaker 2: help them with this.

1294
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:24,760
Speaker 3: You know, there's more recreationists than US four service land

1295
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 3: and b L m N than there are national parks

1296
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 3: every year. So they were missing the boat. But there

1297
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:31,880
Speaker 3: is again a real disconnect between the politics and the

1298
01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:36,040
Speaker 3: public on conservation right now. I mean it was but

1299
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 3: it was really uplifting to see like far right militia

1300
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:44,840
Speaker 3: leaders and far left climate activists literally stand together and

1301
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:45,960
Speaker 3: but the.

1302
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:55,120
Speaker 2: With either one of those groups that's replicable.

1303
01:10:56,439 --> 01:11:00,320
Speaker 3: That is replicable though, because it's not just about public

1304
01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:03,240
Speaker 3: lands and hunting and fishing. It's also about clean water

1305
01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:07,799
Speaker 3: and more efficient agriculture and forest health and wildlife conservation

1306
01:11:08,120 --> 01:11:11,200
Speaker 3: and like clean air, Like we could rally people in

1307
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:14,439
Speaker 3: a similar diverse coalition and that's what I'm saying hasn't

1308
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:15,280
Speaker 3: existed in a while.

1309
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:18,840
Speaker 2: And so there's it would create, it create.

1310
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 3: It created space to kill the bill or that part

1311
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:24,120
Speaker 3: of the bill and it, but it also could create

1312
01:11:24,160 --> 01:11:25,360
Speaker 3: space to do the right thing too.

1313
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:26,519
Speaker 2: And that's the vision that I have.

1314
01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:31,320
Speaker 1: Let me hit you with one.

1315
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:32,640
Speaker 3: Uh.

1316
01:11:33,160 --> 01:11:36,200
Speaker 1: I had three questions pop up my head, but I'm

1317
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:38,600
Speaker 1: forgetting them as fast as I'm thinking. This was the

1318
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:41,840
Speaker 1: first one that I wanted to ask you about. If

1319
01:11:44,439 --> 01:11:46,400
Speaker 1: what is the let's say you what you're you're talking

1320
01:11:46,479 --> 01:11:49,920
Speaker 1: to a neighbor. Okay, yep, you're taught new neighbor. And

1321
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:51,680
Speaker 1: you know that you have your taught new neighbor who

1322
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:54,519
Speaker 1: is my parents. Fiscally you're taught to do a fiscally

1323
01:11:54,600 --> 01:12:00,599
Speaker 1: conservative neighbor. Sure, okay, single issue voter maybe a little

1324
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:07,120
Speaker 1: bit like likes the fiscally conservative economy efficiency not like

1325
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:12,240
Speaker 1: an idea logue, right, And he says to you, Benji,

1326
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:14,439
Speaker 1: why should I give a shit about any of the

1327
01:12:14,439 --> 01:12:16,680
Speaker 1: stuff you're talking about? Like, sell me on it.

1328
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:22,760
Speaker 3: There is no country that we love without the resources

1329
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:25,640
Speaker 3: and the beauty that we have, right, like the resources

1330
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:28,519
Speaker 3: that we develop largely on public land in a lot

1331
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:31,479
Speaker 3: of ways. The resources that we develop, the water that

1332
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:35,400
Speaker 3: we have, the agricultural industry that we have. Our entire

1333
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:38,280
Speaker 3: country relies on the environment to survive. So we could

1334
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:40,680
Speaker 3: extract everything over the next five or ten years and

1335
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:42,320
Speaker 3: probably break in a lot of money, but then we'd

1336
01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:46,560
Speaker 3: be destroyed after that. And you can't take care of

1337
01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:48,679
Speaker 3: the economy if you don't take care of the environment.

1338
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:51,680
Speaker 3: You can't take care of the country without taking care

1339
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:55,960
Speaker 3: of conservation. And it is not only an economic driver

1340
01:12:56,120 --> 01:12:58,680
Speaker 3: to take care of our country. I mean recreation statistics.

1341
01:12:58,720 --> 01:13:03,360
Speaker 3: We have the most recreationists in American history, generating you know, billion,

1342
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:05,839
Speaker 3: tens of billions of dollars of revenue for the government.

1343
01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:08,800
Speaker 3: It not only generates an economic value, but it also

1344
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 3: generates the value that our communities depend on to survive.

1345
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:13,840
Speaker 3: And I'd argue, what is a more important issue? Like

1346
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:15,400
Speaker 3: I live in Arizona right now, So if we're talking

1347
01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:18,160
Speaker 3: to a neighbor in Arizona, what issue is more important

1348
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:21,360
Speaker 3: than water quality in Arizona? I mean in water, in

1349
01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:23,640
Speaker 3: water availability, like, I can't think of one because we

1350
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:25,800
Speaker 3: have no water. We don't have a city, right like,

1351
01:13:26,240 --> 01:13:29,360
Speaker 3: So this is this is all interconnected with people's lives

1352
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:32,040
Speaker 3: in a way that we've kind of forgotten about because

1353
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:34,480
Speaker 3: we've just developed so many resources and we're so technologically

1354
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:36,559
Speaker 3: driven that we kind of forget about the natural world.

1355
01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:38,040
Speaker 1: But but we have to.

1356
01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:40,760
Speaker 3: We have a symbiotic relationship with the natural world that

1357
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:43,400
Speaker 3: we've completely forgotten about. And we're one of the last

1358
01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:46,000
Speaker 3: frontiers in the world that's actually taking care of our

1359
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:48,559
Speaker 3: land by and large, Like, yes we've got issues, and yes,

1360
01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:51,640
Speaker 3: this like public land self was a huge threat, but

1361
01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:54,440
Speaker 3: if you look around the world, Africa is getting destroyed

1362
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:57,519
Speaker 3: by the Chinese government and other countries going in and

1363
01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:01,040
Speaker 3: saying we're gonna just mine everything and destroy with slave labor.

1364
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:05,639
Speaker 3: South America is getting deforested continually at a crazy rate,

1365
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:08,880
Speaker 3: and its wildlife habitats continually being encroached upon. We are

1366
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:11,040
Speaker 3: one of the last places in the world, Canada, a

1367
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:13,840
Speaker 3: couple of other places where we actually are investing in

1368
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:17,000
Speaker 3: this and it's one of the best values and assets

1369
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:20,000
Speaker 3: that our country has is our environment. So if we

1370
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:24,439
Speaker 3: aren't thinking about that from a national perspective, then we're

1371
01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:26,599
Speaker 3: completely missing one of the most important parts of our country.

1372
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:29,880
Speaker 1: Okay, I buy that.

1373
01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:31,439
Speaker 2: I would hope you do.

1374
01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:35,760
Speaker 3: Well my neighbor by it, I don't know, but you know,

1375
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:40,000
Speaker 3: I think the we have become so digitized that we've

1376
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:44,720
Speaker 3: kind of forgotten about the natural world around us. And yes,

1377
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:50,320
Speaker 3: that's like, it's not the I heard a quote the

1378
01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:52,280
Speaker 3: other day that was like so simple, but it's so true.

1379
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:56,480
Speaker 3: Like the environment isn't ours to, you know, extract resources

1380
01:14:56,520 --> 01:15:01,639
Speaker 3: from the environment. Is ours to care for and develop

1381
01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:05,040
Speaker 3: and work with and conserve so that future generations can

1382
01:15:05,080 --> 01:15:08,640
Speaker 3: also exist. So yes, we need to develop resources, and

1383
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:11,240
Speaker 3: yes we need to you know, manage these places, but

1384
01:15:11,320 --> 01:15:13,120
Speaker 3: we also have to care for them because we're not

1385
01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:15,160
Speaker 3: the only people that are going to inherit this. And

1386
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:18,120
Speaker 3: I think we've just become such a selfish society that

1387
01:15:18,760 --> 01:15:21,280
Speaker 3: that neighbor who's worried about fiscal policy isn't they're not

1388
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:23,920
Speaker 3: seeing the forest through the trees literally, right, They're just

1389
01:15:24,080 --> 01:15:28,840
Speaker 3: literally thinking about their own vanguard account and the national debt, which.

1390
01:15:28,720 --> 01:15:29,599
Speaker 2: Of course is important.

1391
01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:31,960
Speaker 3: Both are important, but we've also got to think about,

1392
01:15:32,360 --> 01:15:36,320
Speaker 3: you know, our children and grandchildren. And you know, I'm

1393
01:15:36,360 --> 01:15:38,560
Speaker 3: twenty seven, I've got you know, I was working with

1394
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:41,000
Speaker 3: Charlie on the National debt when I was twelve right,

1395
01:15:41,439 --> 01:15:44,799
Speaker 3: But I still got hopefully seventy more years on this planet,

1396
01:15:45,240 --> 01:15:47,160
Speaker 3: and then I'm gonna have kids someday, and then I'm

1397
01:15:47,160 --> 01:15:51,320
Speaker 3: gonna have grandkids someday, and I need to have a

1398
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:55,000
Speaker 3: world that's worth bringing them into, right, And it's not

1399
01:15:55,080 --> 01:15:58,519
Speaker 3: about like kumbaya, like protect nature because we just care

1400
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:01,840
Speaker 3: about the wildlife. It's like it's so much bigger than that, right,

1401
01:16:01,880 --> 01:16:04,680
Speaker 3: It's literally about us, And that's lost in a lot

1402
01:16:04,720 --> 01:16:04,880
Speaker 3: of this.

1403
01:16:06,080 --> 01:16:10,160
Speaker 1: If you look at there's there's a couple of movements

1404
01:16:10,200 --> 01:16:13,400
Speaker 1: that I'm that I'm always stunned by how effective they were.

1405
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:18,240
Speaker 1: And so we're gonna look at the push for the

1406
01:16:18,360 --> 01:16:23,360
Speaker 1: legalization of gay marriage and then the legalization of weed. Okay,

1407
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 1: now those are long running Those are long running disputes,

1408
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:33,040
Speaker 1: but something happened, But something happened, and they hit like

1409
01:16:33,200 --> 01:16:36,920
Speaker 1: a they hit like a moment, and just like they

1410
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:39,040
Speaker 1: hit a moment where it became kind of bipartisan.

1411
01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:41,040
Speaker 2: Yep, that's what I'm hoping for.

1412
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:44,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, but here's the rup. I want to talk about

1413
01:16:44,080 --> 01:16:45,400
Speaker 1: those movements for a little bit. Then I want to

1414
01:16:45,400 --> 01:16:47,760
Speaker 1: tell you why I think that what you're engaging is

1415
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:54,679
Speaker 1: more complicated because these were these were like fairly simple asks. Right, Okay.

1416
01:16:55,640 --> 01:16:59,879
Speaker 1: The way the way gay marriage got over the threshold

1417
01:17:00,360 --> 01:17:04,240
Speaker 1: was it wasn't like, this isn't about special privilege, right,

1418
01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:08,360
Speaker 1: This isn't about this isn't like part of some zero

1419
01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:11,160
Speaker 1: something we're going to take away something from someone to

1420
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:15,920
Speaker 1: give it to somebody else. This isn't like we're not

1421
01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:18,599
Speaker 1: really asking the government to bend over backward on too

1422
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:21,840
Speaker 1: much here. It's just there's a thing. It's like this

1423
01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:27,320
Speaker 1: symbolic gesture that we feel should be kind of applied

1424
01:17:27,360 --> 01:17:30,160
Speaker 1: to all Americans and like and then to the right

1425
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:34,599
Speaker 1: on the right, you'd say, and really, remember, what business

1426
01:17:34,840 --> 01:17:38,559
Speaker 1: is it of yours? What business is it of the government?

1427
01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:41,400
Speaker 1: Who I decide to marry? Like? Do you really think

1428
01:17:41,520 --> 01:17:45,479
Speaker 1: the government should tell you who to marry? And eventually

1429
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:49,559
Speaker 1: got where you had. You had this kind of leftist idea,

1430
01:17:50,360 --> 01:17:55,040
Speaker 1: and the right merged onto it. They had an easy

1431
01:17:55,120 --> 01:17:58,000
Speaker 1: way to merge on because it was like if you'd

1432
01:17:58,040 --> 01:18:00,679
Speaker 1: gone back, my dad was very conservative, got back, asked

1433
01:18:00,720 --> 01:18:04,160
Speaker 1: my dad, he would have said, but it's none of

1434
01:18:04,200 --> 01:18:07,880
Speaker 1: my business, right, what you know, what what that guy's

1435
01:18:07,880 --> 01:18:10,479
Speaker 1: going to do in his house nothing to do with me, Right,

1436
01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:12,799
Speaker 1: I don't have to love it. It's not my business

1437
01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:15,960
Speaker 1: that that became a thing, and like, and that's when

1438
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:19,519
Speaker 1: that went legal. Weed a long running left issue and

1439
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:21,680
Speaker 1: it eventually became it's kind of even hard to get

1440
01:18:21,680 --> 01:18:23,280
Speaker 1: to it, but it kind of became like a little

1441
01:18:23,320 --> 01:18:25,400
Speaker 1: bit of a it's a plant that goes out of

1442
01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:29,639
Speaker 1: the ground. I mean, can you really have a bunch

1443
01:18:29,640 --> 01:18:32,400
Speaker 1: of rules about a plant that grows into your garden? Right?

1444
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:37,240
Speaker 1: And A, Hey, what that guy's doing is you know

1445
01:18:37,800 --> 01:18:39,960
Speaker 1: what he's doing in his own house? Is it really

1446
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:43,000
Speaker 1: my business? And no one can really demonstrate to me

1447
01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:45,080
Speaker 1: that it's more destructive than alcohol. It seems like when

1448
01:18:45,080 --> 01:18:49,200
Speaker 1: you look at the stats like domestic disputes, vehicle crashes,

1449
01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:51,599
Speaker 1: like booze ain't the best thing in the world, now,

1450
01:18:51,800 --> 01:18:53,719
Speaker 1: is it really like there's less that goes into making

1451
01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:54,519
Speaker 1: weed than booze?

1452
01:18:55,160 --> 01:18:57,680
Speaker 3: There's also a safety argument, right, like wouldn't you rather

1453
01:18:57,760 --> 01:18:59,519
Speaker 3: have it be monitored by the government not have it

1454
01:18:59,560 --> 01:19:01,360
Speaker 3: be e leg coming in? I mean, I had a

1455
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:04,400
Speaker 3: friend in high school who had like fentanyl in the

1456
01:19:04,479 --> 01:19:08,560
Speaker 3: weed because it was illegal, and he died. So that

1457
01:19:08,760 --> 01:19:11,880
Speaker 3: that you know, that's the argument that people make too.

1458
01:19:12,080 --> 01:19:14,599
Speaker 3: So yeah, there's plenty of arguments to more of people

1459
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:15,200
Speaker 3: together there.

1460
01:19:15,439 --> 01:19:18,400
Speaker 1: But these things, these things that I've marveled at, like

1461
01:19:18,479 --> 01:19:21,719
Speaker 1: in my lifetime, yep, in the end, were real clean

1462
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:27,800
Speaker 1: and they were like an issue. Public lands becomes like

1463
01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:30,960
Speaker 1: a clean issue. But to call for a sort of

1464
01:19:33,120 --> 01:19:41,160
Speaker 1: expansive kind of umbrella of environmental concern is bigger because

1465
01:19:41,880 --> 01:19:44,920
Speaker 1: people would say like, well, what's the ask, and you'd

1466
01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:48,000
Speaker 1: be like, it's a lot of asks all the time.

1467
01:19:48,880 --> 01:19:50,360
Speaker 3: That's a great way of putting in it, you know,

1468
01:19:50,560 --> 01:19:52,280
Speaker 3: And it's harder, It is way harder, but I think

1469
01:19:52,320 --> 01:19:55,799
Speaker 3: it's worth it because you're gonna have different stakeholders engaging

1470
01:19:55,840 --> 01:19:57,840
Speaker 3: in different parts of it, like the water stakeholders might

1471
01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:01,839
Speaker 3: be different than the forest stakeholders, but but very similar

1472
01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:05,320
Speaker 3: to those issues. There is an easy on ramp for

1473
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:09,000
Speaker 3: every political identity to care, whether that be for national

1474
01:20:09,080 --> 01:20:13,160
Speaker 3: security or for jobs, or for moral high ground, or

1475
01:20:13,320 --> 01:20:16,479
Speaker 3: for just carry about your local community, or for carrying

1476
01:20:16,479 --> 01:20:20,120
Speaker 3: about nationals. You know, our national identity and legacy and heritage,

1477
01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:24,519
Speaker 3: like protecting, conserving, taking care of our environment intersects with

1478
01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:28,679
Speaker 3: everyone's political views in a very similar way to those issues.

1479
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:32,320
Speaker 3: Because that's not actually true on immigration as easily. It's

1480
01:20:32,360 --> 01:20:35,040
Speaker 3: not as easy it on guns, right, Like those are

1481
01:20:35,200 --> 01:20:37,840
Speaker 3: core parts and what on ramp are you going to

1482
01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:40,560
Speaker 3: create between those issues from both sides. I don't know

1483
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:44,040
Speaker 3: how we solve those, right, But the environment might have

1484
01:20:44,200 --> 01:20:47,559
Speaker 3: more variables to it, because it's not just one policy

1485
01:20:47,600 --> 01:20:48,880
Speaker 3: that you're trying to get to legalize it.

1486
01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:49,600
Speaker 2: Legalize it.

1487
01:20:50,040 --> 01:20:51,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's not like you can go like, okay, we

1488
01:20:51,360 --> 01:20:52,960
Speaker 1: did it in that state, that we're going to do

1489
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:54,840
Speaker 1: it in that state, right, and eventually it'll be that

1490
01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:56,160
Speaker 1: we got like forty nine states.

1491
01:20:56,360 --> 01:20:56,479
Speaker 2: Right.

1492
01:20:57,400 --> 01:20:59,800
Speaker 3: This is not a one trick pony movement that we're

1493
01:20:59,800 --> 01:21:04,120
Speaker 3: trying to create. And you look, this approach needs to

1494
01:21:04,200 --> 01:21:07,920
Speaker 3: be applied to situations. Applied to the public land sell off,

1495
01:21:08,479 --> 01:21:10,880
Speaker 3: and we were three months old and obviously so many

1496
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:14,240
Speaker 3: great organizations worked on that. We showed that it was

1497
01:21:14,240 --> 01:21:17,479
Speaker 3: at least possible on that applied to that. But if

1498
01:21:17,479 --> 01:21:21,720
Speaker 3: you apply that same group of people to restore in

1499
01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:24,040
Speaker 3: Utah or restoring the Great Salt Lake, I think we

1500
01:21:24,280 --> 01:21:25,920
Speaker 3: do a lot better of a job at restoring the

1501
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:29,479
Speaker 3: Great Salt Lake. But right now there's no knowledge, but

1502
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:33,760
Speaker 3: everyone in Salt Lake Vicinity wants to restore the Great

1503
01:21:33,800 --> 01:21:36,240
Speaker 3: Salt Lake. Yet nothing is really being done about it

1504
01:21:36,439 --> 01:21:39,200
Speaker 3: because everyone's focused on other political culture war issues and

1505
01:21:39,280 --> 01:21:42,080
Speaker 3: there's no mobilized cultural movement across the party lines to

1506
01:21:42,280 --> 01:21:44,680
Speaker 3: get something done. So you apply it to that, or

1507
01:21:44,720 --> 01:21:47,559
Speaker 3: you apply it to Oh my god, wildfires are getting

1508
01:21:47,560 --> 01:21:49,880
Speaker 3: worse and worse, mega fires are getting worse every summer,

1509
01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:51,639
Speaker 3: not only in the United States but around the world.

1510
01:21:52,479 --> 01:21:55,840
Speaker 3: Apply that to that issue, and so some stakeholders might

1511
01:21:55,880 --> 01:21:58,880
Speaker 3: drop off, some might come on. But it's the same

1512
01:21:59,280 --> 01:22:02,960
Speaker 3: on ramp where people have different whys, different reasons for caring,

1513
01:22:03,280 --> 01:22:05,400
Speaker 3: but they care about the same end goal and they

1514
01:22:05,439 --> 01:22:09,599
Speaker 3: have the exact same end goal, less wildfires. Who wants

1515
01:22:09,640 --> 01:22:12,080
Speaker 3: to create a policy that creates more wildfires in this country,

1516
01:22:12,360 --> 01:22:15,320
Speaker 3: I don't know anybody. So in the way of getting there,

1517
01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:19,040
Speaker 3: the vast majority of people actually would agree on if

1518
01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:21,040
Speaker 3: we actually had the chance to debate it, but right

1519
01:22:21,080 --> 01:22:24,640
Speaker 3: now we're not. So I agree it's way harder, but

1520
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:28,160
Speaker 3: it's worth it, and I think it's worth it to

1521
01:22:28,280 --> 01:22:31,160
Speaker 3: pursue that rather than having a disjointed movement where the

1522
01:22:31,200 --> 01:22:34,240
Speaker 3: pendulum swings back and forth every four years on a

1523
01:22:34,320 --> 01:22:39,120
Speaker 3: subject like Biden puts in all these massive conservation preservation

1524
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:42,360
Speaker 3: restrictions and public land deals and all this stuff, and

1525
01:22:42,360 --> 01:22:44,360
Speaker 3: then Trump undoes it. People are like, oh, it's just

1526
01:22:44,400 --> 01:22:49,080
Speaker 3: a Trump problem. No, we need durable, durable conservation solutions

1527
01:22:49,200 --> 01:22:51,080
Speaker 3: in five years and ten years and fifteen years. No

1528
01:22:51,160 --> 01:22:52,160
Speaker 3: matter where the country heads.

1529
01:22:52,200 --> 01:22:52,560
Speaker 2: We don't know.

1530
01:22:52,920 --> 01:22:54,760
Speaker 3: It could be advance, it could be a new sum,

1531
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:57,040
Speaker 3: it could be nobody that we've even been talking about. Right,

1532
01:22:57,479 --> 01:23:00,960
Speaker 3: but at some point we have to have some consistency

1533
01:23:01,280 --> 01:23:05,000
Speaker 3: because the lack of consistency is killing our environment, and

1534
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:10,200
Speaker 3: it's and it's refusing, it's we are deferring any policy

1535
01:23:10,439 --> 01:23:13,960
Speaker 3: from getting done because of that disconnect.

1536
01:23:14,080 --> 01:23:16,040
Speaker 2: So it is harder, but I think it's worth it.

1537
01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:18,880
Speaker 3: And I don't have all the answers today, but hopefully

1538
01:23:18,920 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 3: in ten years we'll have this conversation.

1539
01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:21,680
Speaker 2: We'll have made a lot of progress there.

1540
01:23:21,880 --> 01:23:22,080
Speaker 7: Let me.

1541
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:24,160
Speaker 1: Offer a.

1542
01:23:26,200 --> 01:23:28,880
Speaker 6: Probably a poor analogy, and you can tell me how

1543
01:23:30,320 --> 01:23:31,040
Speaker 6: accurate it is.

1544
01:23:31,360 --> 01:23:33,120
Speaker 1: Can I raid it too? Absolutely?

1545
01:23:33,360 --> 01:23:33,960
Speaker 2: Five stars?

1546
01:23:34,479 --> 01:23:39,240
Speaker 4: Absolutely, Like when you're talking about building cultural momentum and

1547
01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:43,160
Speaker 4: having something where people on both sides can approach it

1548
01:23:43,200 --> 01:23:46,880
Speaker 4: from their own angle, I'm wondering if you're and I

1549
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:50,479
Speaker 4: don't this might sound stupid and maybe dismissive, but you're

1550
01:23:50,520 --> 01:23:52,519
Speaker 4: trying to like you're essentially saying, I want to make

1551
01:23:52,640 --> 01:23:55,360
Speaker 4: caring for the environment, like support the troops.

1552
01:23:55,760 --> 01:23:58,160
Speaker 2: Yes, Like no, that is not dismissive.

1553
01:23:58,160 --> 01:24:01,760
Speaker 4: That is exactly because like five stars, there's because every

1554
01:24:02,200 --> 01:24:06,160
Speaker 4: every politician is going to say that they support the troops,

1555
01:24:06,479 --> 01:24:08,439
Speaker 4: and they're going to lean into it as as sort

1556
01:24:08,479 --> 01:24:13,160
Speaker 4: of part of their mantle of legitimacy. Democrat who supports

1557
01:24:13,200 --> 01:24:17,360
Speaker 4: the troops might vote for mental health counseling for veterans

1558
01:24:17,439 --> 01:24:22,000
Speaker 4: and and research on on you know, like PTSD things

1559
01:24:22,120 --> 01:24:26,960
Speaker 4: like that. Maybe they are pushing for greater equality in

1560
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:31,559
Speaker 4: different like you know, combat roles whatever. A Republican who

1561
01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:35,960
Speaker 4: supports the troops might vote for funding for extra you know,

1562
01:24:36,080 --> 01:24:38,080
Speaker 4: like like make sure the troops have what they need

1563
01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:39,040
Speaker 4: to fight the wars.

1564
01:24:39,080 --> 01:24:41,920
Speaker 1: We send them to armored doors on their humbes, armored

1565
01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:43,559
Speaker 1: doors on their humbes, right, And like.

1566
01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:49,040
Speaker 4: Obviously, I mean I feel like there's part of there's

1567
01:24:49,080 --> 01:24:51,280
Speaker 4: part of me that when I hear someone say I

1568
01:24:51,400 --> 01:24:54,160
Speaker 4: support the troops, I'm kind of like, well, that's brave

1569
01:24:54,240 --> 01:24:57,599
Speaker 4: of you, you know, like, but it's good politics.

1570
01:24:57,920 --> 01:25:01,080
Speaker 2: And space where both sides are to support them.

1571
01:25:01,320 --> 01:25:07,400
Speaker 4: Because Nixon, I mean, Nixon has all this huge environmental legacy,

1572
01:25:07,720 --> 01:25:10,479
Speaker 4: and and you could read it one way and say, like, god,

1573
01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:12,519
Speaker 4: I didn't know he cared so much about the environment.

1574
01:25:13,080 --> 01:25:16,160
Speaker 4: But really Nixon didn't give He didn't he didn't care

1575
01:25:16,160 --> 01:25:18,760
Speaker 4: about the environment. He just was like, boy, this is

1576
01:25:18,800 --> 01:25:21,679
Speaker 4: a powerful horse to hitch to my wagon.

1577
01:25:21,800 --> 01:25:21,920
Speaker 2: Right.

1578
01:25:22,600 --> 01:25:25,719
Speaker 4: So that's that's that's sort of the analogy that occurred

1579
01:25:25,760 --> 01:25:29,920
Speaker 4: to me as you're talking. It's it's making this sort

1580
01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:33,400
Speaker 4: of a cultural plank of America that everybody's got to

1581
01:25:33,439 --> 01:25:35,040
Speaker 4: have that feather in their hat if they want to

1582
01:25:35,080 --> 01:25:38,160
Speaker 4: throw their throw said hat into the arena.

1583
01:25:39,320 --> 01:25:41,839
Speaker 6: To make this a really messy metaphor.

1584
01:25:42,040 --> 01:25:42,519
Speaker 2: Five star.

1585
01:25:42,880 --> 01:25:47,800
Speaker 1: No, I like the metaphor, but I think that and

1586
01:25:47,920 --> 01:25:50,040
Speaker 1: I get the point supporting the troops. You could say, oh, no,

1587
01:25:50,160 --> 01:25:52,760
Speaker 1: I support the troops. We should bring them home, right,

1588
01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:54,920
Speaker 1: and some guys like, oh no, no, I support the troops.

1589
01:25:55,400 --> 01:25:56,840
Speaker 1: We should send them. Got to give them with they

1590
01:25:56,880 --> 01:25:59,479
Speaker 1: need to send them advanced munitions. Yeah, right, Like you

1591
01:25:59,560 --> 01:26:00,599
Speaker 1: both get the carried around.

1592
01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:02,960
Speaker 2: But I agree with that.

1593
01:26:03,520 --> 01:26:07,040
Speaker 3: But the troops are one of the few topics where

1594
01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:09,240
Speaker 3: both sides actually sit down and have a conversation now though,

1595
01:26:09,560 --> 01:26:11,679
Speaker 3: even though it's not pretty and they don't always agree,

1596
01:26:11,880 --> 01:26:13,920
Speaker 3: and I'm not expecting that this is not some kumbai

1597
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:17,240
Speaker 3: a shit, but eighty percent of the time there's actually

1598
01:26:17,240 --> 01:26:20,240
Speaker 3: a lot of agreement. So, but that's not being facilitated.

1599
01:26:20,960 --> 01:26:23,439
Speaker 3: If there's agreement on troops in our military, they're at

1600
01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:26,280
Speaker 3: least having that conversation because they feel like it's part

1601
01:26:26,280 --> 01:26:29,840
Speaker 3: of the American national identity. And of course there's extraneous

1602
01:26:29,880 --> 01:26:32,920
Speaker 3: times where they totally see differently, right, and that's going

1603
01:26:33,000 --> 01:26:35,799
Speaker 3: to happen, and that did happen when Richard Nixon was president.

1604
01:26:35,880 --> 01:26:35,960
Speaker 1: Right.

1605
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:38,160
Speaker 3: There are people who thought Richard Nixon didn't go far enough,

1606
01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:39,800
Speaker 3: and there are people who thought he'd went too far.

1607
01:26:39,960 --> 01:26:43,559
Speaker 2: Sure, but stuff got done, and that was.

1608
01:26:43,640 --> 01:26:46,800
Speaker 7: Farmers feed America. It would be the platform that I

1609
01:26:46,840 --> 01:26:50,799
Speaker 7: think is the most applicable, is like everybody loves farmers

1610
01:26:51,000 --> 01:26:54,599
Speaker 7: and that is the thing that feeds us and large

1611
01:26:54,640 --> 01:26:59,679
Speaker 7: part secures our country. We don't have to import stuff

1612
01:26:59,720 --> 01:27:02,760
Speaker 7: from all these other countries if we really focused on

1613
01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:08,360
Speaker 7: farmers feeding America. But those ecosystems are the most rapidly

1614
01:27:08,479 --> 01:27:12,519
Speaker 7: disappearing ecosystems on the planet, let alone in the United States.

1615
01:27:13,960 --> 01:27:17,200
Speaker 7: Here in Montana, we lost a million acres of farm

1616
01:27:17,240 --> 01:27:20,640
Speaker 7: and ranch ground over the last year, sorry, over the

1617
01:27:20,720 --> 01:27:27,719
Speaker 7: last three years. And like, if you take a chunk

1618
01:27:27,760 --> 01:27:31,200
Speaker 7: of grazing ground in Oklahoma and look at the interests

1619
01:27:31,280 --> 01:27:34,000
Speaker 7: that want that grazing ground, yep, despite the fact that

1620
01:27:34,320 --> 01:27:37,519
Speaker 7: every fricking politician is like, farmers feed America, God bless

1621
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:42,759
Speaker 7: the farmers. Right, it's like the last week in uh Foot.

1622
01:27:42,960 --> 01:27:44,760
Speaker 6: Let me but let me rush back on that.

1623
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:49,720
Speaker 4: There's there's probably elected officials from urban burrows in New

1624
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:53,040
Speaker 4: York that don't get questions about farmers.

1625
01:27:52,720 --> 01:27:56,599
Speaker 2: Totally, like yet they're eating their food right.

1626
01:27:56,720 --> 01:28:00,880
Speaker 4: Like like it's that's something where people would be like, oh, sure,

1627
01:28:01,000 --> 01:28:03,600
Speaker 4: but that's not really what my constituents set me here for.

1628
01:28:04,160 --> 01:28:07,360
Speaker 4: There's nobody who's like, do you support the troops, and

1629
01:28:07,360 --> 01:28:09,439
Speaker 4: they're like, it's not.

1630
01:28:09,520 --> 01:28:10,680
Speaker 7: Really name one.

1631
01:28:10,880 --> 01:28:13,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm just not involved in that, you know, Like

1632
01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:16,799
Speaker 4: everybody's like, yes, absolutely.

1633
01:28:17,840 --> 01:28:20,440
Speaker 1: Right, name one troop.

1634
01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:24,400
Speaker 4: Like like that that's an issue I feel like where

1635
01:28:24,520 --> 01:28:28,280
Speaker 4: no one can, no politician can sort of step out

1636
01:28:28,320 --> 01:28:30,760
Speaker 4: of line and no one can ignore it or say

1637
01:28:30,840 --> 01:28:32,280
Speaker 4: like it's I'm focused on this.

1638
01:28:32,479 --> 01:28:35,439
Speaker 6: I'm focused on this and they're like, no one.

1639
01:28:35,320 --> 01:28:37,479
Speaker 4: Would respond to do you support the troops and be like, well, really,

1640
01:28:37,479 --> 01:28:41,880
Speaker 4: I'm focused on transportation an infrastructure.

1641
01:28:42,680 --> 01:28:44,479
Speaker 3: You can pivot easier with that. But I think it's

1642
01:28:44,520 --> 01:28:48,960
Speaker 3: like if you're AOC as an extreme example, there are

1643
01:28:49,160 --> 01:28:51,560
Speaker 3: serious environmental issues in New York City and with the

1644
01:28:51,680 --> 01:28:57,120
Speaker 3: Hudson River. You know, if you're Wisconsin Senator, the water

1645
01:28:57,720 --> 01:29:01,879
Speaker 3: you know, aquifers sinking and having the Mississippi get destroyed

1646
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:05,000
Speaker 3: by runoff is an issue, but that doesn't really matter

1647
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:08,160
Speaker 3: to New York. But like it's I think that's where

1648
01:29:08,160 --> 01:29:10,320
Speaker 3: we've lost it is. It's like the environmental movement in

1649
01:29:10,439 --> 01:29:15,240
Speaker 3: general has also hurt the hunting and angling community because

1650
01:29:15,240 --> 01:29:18,160
Speaker 3: it's always been about for the last twenty years, polar bears,

1651
01:29:19,240 --> 01:29:25,880
Speaker 3: climate change, energy, like things that don't really impact the

1652
01:29:25,960 --> 01:29:29,240
Speaker 3: local community. That every local community has really their own

1653
01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:32,720
Speaker 3: environmental issue and they truly don't care too much. Like

1654
01:29:33,120 --> 01:29:36,960
Speaker 3: in Arizona. In Scottsdale, where I live, they truly could

1655
01:29:37,000 --> 01:29:39,920
Speaker 3: not care less about farmers. Should they care, probably, but

1656
01:29:40,160 --> 01:29:42,960
Speaker 3: like they don't. They care about water quality and access,

1657
01:29:43,080 --> 01:29:45,960
Speaker 3: and they care about the smog that's getting worse. So

1658
01:29:47,400 --> 01:29:50,640
Speaker 3: as but as a country, we shit, we share a

1659
01:29:50,680 --> 01:29:54,320
Speaker 3: different reason for caring, but we all share the caring

1660
01:29:54,600 --> 01:29:56,560
Speaker 3: part because we know we rely on it. So I

1661
01:29:56,640 --> 01:29:59,519
Speaker 3: agree that like tagging farmers in is part of it,

1662
01:30:00,320 --> 01:30:02,799
Speaker 3: but it needs to be a part of like local

1663
01:30:03,120 --> 01:30:07,080
Speaker 3: community ownership. And people feel like there's no way to

1664
01:30:07,120 --> 01:30:09,360
Speaker 3: get involved because it's like this issue is too big,

1665
01:30:09,479 --> 01:30:12,600
Speaker 3: climate change, polar bears, that's not like my thing. What

1666
01:30:12,680 --> 01:30:17,200
Speaker 3: if everyone was able to activate and advocate for the

1667
01:30:17,360 --> 01:30:19,839
Speaker 3: issues that they cared about in their own local community

1668
01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:22,160
Speaker 3: in a better way that felt more tangible, that felt

1669
01:30:22,200 --> 01:30:25,960
Speaker 3: more realistic. And the vision that I have is for

1670
01:30:27,240 --> 01:30:28,840
Speaker 3: if you live in the Great Salt Lake area, you

1671
01:30:28,920 --> 01:30:31,519
Speaker 3: can advocate for that across party lines and actually get

1672
01:30:31,560 --> 01:30:34,640
Speaker 3: something done for that, because that's what's affecting you. If

1673
01:30:34,680 --> 01:30:36,920
Speaker 3: you're a big part of the country that has agriculture

1674
01:30:36,960 --> 01:30:40,120
Speaker 3: and farming and you're worried about water quality and the

1675
01:30:40,240 --> 01:30:43,240
Speaker 3: lack of crops that you can get now because the

1676
01:30:43,479 --> 01:30:46,360
Speaker 3: substance in the soil is so bad, like then you

1677
01:30:46,400 --> 01:30:49,439
Speaker 3: can advocate for that, But right now there's nothing kind

1678
01:30:49,479 --> 01:30:52,519
Speaker 3: of that holistic view like there would be on troops,

1679
01:30:52,640 --> 01:30:55,360
Speaker 3: Like troops is very complex too, actually, right there's so

1680
01:30:55,479 --> 01:30:58,280
Speaker 3: many different variables there, but there's a culture around it

1681
01:30:58,400 --> 01:31:00,680
Speaker 3: that kind of forces people to face You're some sort

1682
01:31:00,720 --> 01:31:03,160
Speaker 3: of solution out and that's that's kind of the vision.

1683
01:31:04,520 --> 01:31:06,479
Speaker 1: A difference between you and me is that you thought

1684
01:31:06,520 --> 01:31:09,040
Speaker 1: about something and then did it and and and I

1685
01:31:09,120 --> 01:31:11,000
Speaker 1: thought about this and never did it. But I'll share

1686
01:31:11,040 --> 01:31:11,240
Speaker 1: with you.

1687
01:31:13,600 --> 01:31:15,679
Speaker 2: I eat another piece of at.

1688
01:31:15,600 --> 01:31:19,559
Speaker 1: A point, please. At a point, I realized that there's

1689
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:26,000
Speaker 1: like a way I think about the environment that isn't

1690
01:31:26,120 --> 01:31:30,800
Speaker 1: shared by the environmental movement. And I realized that this

1691
01:31:30,880 --> 01:31:33,280
Speaker 1: way I think about it is actually shared by a

1692
01:31:33,360 --> 01:31:36,560
Speaker 1: lot of friends of mine. Is that I have a

1693
01:31:36,720 --> 01:31:40,080
Speaker 1: sort of there's there's a bit of a like a

1694
01:31:40,720 --> 01:31:46,880
Speaker 1: nationalism and a patriotism yes to a view on the

1695
01:31:46,960 --> 01:31:51,639
Speaker 1: American landscape. You know, Like a friend of mine was like, whatever,

1696
01:31:51,680 --> 01:31:53,240
Speaker 1: he's going fishing with his kid. He's like, you think

1697
01:31:53,240 --> 01:31:58,240
Speaker 1: they're doing this with Tyran, you know, just joking. Perhaps

1698
01:31:58,280 --> 01:32:02,960
Speaker 1: they are, but just joking meaning he like it's like, uh,

1699
01:32:03,840 --> 01:32:08,000
Speaker 1: he kind of views it like America the beautiful Yes, yeah,

1700
01:32:08,200 --> 01:32:08,880
Speaker 1: do you follow me?

1701
01:32:09,080 --> 01:32:09,240
Speaker 7: Yes?

1702
01:32:09,560 --> 01:32:11,880
Speaker 1: And there was there was times I think it was

1703
01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:14,439
Speaker 1: like maybe like the last election cycle or whatever. There

1704
01:32:14,520 --> 01:32:18,040
Speaker 1: was times I was like, man, I should find some

1705
01:32:18,280 --> 01:32:21,200
Speaker 1: better way of articulating this thing that I think is

1706
01:32:21,640 --> 01:32:25,120
Speaker 1: kind of widely held where people have a sense of

1707
01:32:25,280 --> 01:32:29,200
Speaker 1: American pride about the American environment.

1708
01:32:29,800 --> 01:32:32,680
Speaker 3: That is exactly you know, and you look at like

1709
01:32:32,800 --> 01:32:36,439
Speaker 3: Yellowstone the show, Right, People didn't watch that because this

1710
01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:39,160
Speaker 3: show is just good. It was because it evoked an

1711
01:32:39,200 --> 01:32:42,479
Speaker 3: emotional connection to Americana in a way where it's like,

1712
01:32:42,560 --> 01:32:45,360
Speaker 3: I'm proud of the fact that we have places that

1713
01:32:45,479 --> 01:32:49,040
Speaker 3: look that beautiful. And every if you go into a

1714
01:32:49,080 --> 01:32:52,400
Speaker 3: Member of Congress's office, no matter if it's Marjorie Taylor

1715
01:32:52,439 --> 01:32:55,880
Speaker 3: Green or AOC, the first pictures on the walls are

1716
01:32:55,960 --> 01:32:58,840
Speaker 3: of their natural beauty in their districts, right, Like, there

1717
01:32:58,920 --> 01:33:01,639
Speaker 3: is an immense pride that Americans have in our environment.

1718
01:33:02,080 --> 01:33:04,160
Speaker 3: This fall, we're going to launch a campaign called United

1719
01:33:04,200 --> 01:33:07,160
Speaker 3: by Nature? United by Nature?

1720
01:33:07,280 --> 01:33:09,200
Speaker 1: Can you call it? Don't ship Up America.

1721
01:33:10,200 --> 01:33:13,920
Speaker 3: That'll be our secondary That'll be the secondary slogan, and

1722
01:33:13,960 --> 01:33:17,000
Speaker 3: we let people use which one they like more. But

1723
01:33:18,120 --> 01:33:21,040
Speaker 3: we have America's two and fifty anniversary next year. I

1724
01:33:21,120 --> 01:33:25,680
Speaker 3: would argue that America, in our conservation legacy is the

1725
01:33:25,720 --> 01:33:28,760
Speaker 3: best in the world. I would also argue that it's

1726
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:32,559
Speaker 3: incredibly at risk right now for the first time at

1727
01:33:32,680 --> 01:33:34,680
Speaker 3: least to this severity in a very long time.

1728
01:33:34,800 --> 01:33:36,000
Speaker 1: Can you, when you get a minute, can you touch

1729
01:33:36,040 --> 01:33:37,479
Speaker 1: on a couple of those points about.

1730
01:33:37,240 --> 01:33:37,960
Speaker 2: What I'm worried about.

1731
01:33:38,280 --> 01:33:38,479
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1732
01:33:38,600 --> 01:33:43,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, Americans are so proud of the natural environment. We

1733
01:33:43,800 --> 01:33:45,599
Speaker 3: have to tap into that. So what I'm worried about.

1734
01:33:47,920 --> 01:33:51,919
Speaker 3: National parks are in massive maintenance debt. We're having conversations

1735
01:33:52,000 --> 01:33:56,160
Speaker 3: constantly about selling off public lands for development, which doesn't

1736
01:33:56,240 --> 01:34:01,760
Speaker 3: solve affordability at all. And the people who are perpetuating

1737
01:34:01,840 --> 01:34:06,599
Speaker 3: that know that wildlife issues are becoming worse. Chronic wasting, disease,

1738
01:34:06,600 --> 01:34:09,520
Speaker 3: in ages species like these things are not getting better necessarily,

1739
01:34:09,640 --> 01:34:14,760
Speaker 3: especially invasive species. I mean, water quality is going down.

1740
01:34:15,000 --> 01:34:18,400
Speaker 3: Microplastics are a ninety four percent of tested water that

1741
01:34:18,479 --> 01:34:22,040
Speaker 3: we drink, and the water quality in our rivers is

1742
01:34:22,479 --> 01:34:26,280
Speaker 3: getting infinitely worse every single year. Megafires are on the

1743
01:34:26,400 --> 01:34:30,760
Speaker 3: rise in this country, and things like the Great Salt Lake,

1744
01:34:32,840 --> 01:34:38,160
Speaker 3: the watersheds, the aquifers below the farms, these are all

1745
01:34:38,240 --> 01:34:42,439
Speaker 3: problems that are getting infinitely worse too. And at some

1746
01:34:42,560 --> 01:34:44,560
Speaker 3: point we're already starting to see the impacts of this.

1747
01:34:44,680 --> 01:34:44,800
Speaker 1: Right.

1748
01:34:44,920 --> 01:34:48,280
Speaker 3: Air quality issues in the summer with the fires, farmers

1749
01:34:48,360 --> 01:34:52,320
Speaker 3: having tons of issues, flooding getting worse, not just because

1750
01:34:52,320 --> 01:34:55,439
Speaker 3: of quote Unico climate change, but also because of the

1751
01:34:55,520 --> 01:34:57,680
Speaker 3: fact that the ecosystems that help prevent a lot of

1752
01:34:58,000 --> 01:35:00,680
Speaker 3: hurricanes and stuff the damage from the hurricane have now

1753
01:35:00,720 --> 01:35:03,680
Speaker 3: been destroyed, so there's not these natural barriers. So we

1754
01:35:03,880 --> 01:35:10,000
Speaker 3: have massive problems. And yet the government, the Biden administration

1755
01:35:10,080 --> 01:35:12,280
Speaker 3: didn't focus on this at all. They focused on them

1756
01:35:12,360 --> 01:35:16,760
Speaker 3: like climate and energy and infrastructure and evs, but until

1757
01:35:16,880 --> 01:35:18,680
Speaker 3: kind of the final hour, they didn't even really talk

1758
01:35:18,720 --> 01:35:23,559
Speaker 3: about this conservation or preservation or anything with the natural landscape. Yeah,

1759
01:35:24,320 --> 01:35:28,599
Speaker 3: and Trump's whole approaches. I will to undo everything because

1760
01:35:28,760 --> 01:35:30,280
Speaker 3: it's gone too far and it's wrong and whatever, but

1761
01:35:30,320 --> 01:35:32,120
Speaker 3: we're not going to replace it with anything. I never

1762
01:35:32,200 --> 01:35:34,120
Speaker 3: liked that guy, because I never liked that guy. But

1763
01:35:34,280 --> 01:35:35,920
Speaker 3: he's not just doing stuff that Biden did. He's not

1764
01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:38,160
Speaker 3: just undoing some Biden did. He's undoing stuff that Nixon

1765
01:35:38,160 --> 01:35:40,040
Speaker 3: did and George W. Bush did and Clinton did.

1766
01:35:44,600 --> 01:35:48,000
Speaker 7: What I point out to people often, right is I'm like,

1767
01:35:48,760 --> 01:35:52,720
Speaker 7: there's always the other side right, participating in this, right,

1768
01:35:53,000 --> 01:35:58,320
Speaker 7: Like even when there's a supermajority. Yeah, pick your supermajority. Right,

1769
01:35:58,479 --> 01:36:03,600
Speaker 7: but there's right now, there's Democrats in the room. They're

1770
01:36:03,680 --> 01:36:06,280
Speaker 7: not going home. They're not like, okay, well we'll see

1771
01:36:06,280 --> 01:36:06,960
Speaker 7: you in four years.

1772
01:36:07,520 --> 01:36:07,640
Speaker 1: Right.

1773
01:36:07,720 --> 01:36:11,879
Speaker 7: There's always that non partisan aspect in there. One side's

1774
01:36:12,040 --> 01:36:13,720
Speaker 7: ultimately going to have like a final say.

1775
01:36:14,560 --> 01:36:18,120
Speaker 2: But you know, it's like people are trying and on.

1776
01:36:18,200 --> 01:36:21,559
Speaker 7: The public lands issue too, it's like, well, thanks for calling,

1777
01:36:21,640 --> 01:36:26,439
Speaker 7: but we defer to the eleven Western states, right. You know,

1778
01:36:26,600 --> 01:36:29,240
Speaker 7: they're be a Democrat or Republican, they're the ones that

1779
01:36:29,400 --> 01:36:32,720
Speaker 7: have the knowledge, and so we're going to listen to them.

1780
01:36:33,200 --> 01:36:33,360
Speaker 3: Right.

1781
01:36:35,200 --> 01:36:37,680
Speaker 7: And that's just like something that people need to be

1782
01:36:37,800 --> 01:36:42,840
Speaker 7: reminded of, right, because it all gets shackled onto, you know,

1783
01:36:43,120 --> 01:36:44,639
Speaker 7: kind of who's in power at that time.

1784
01:36:44,920 --> 01:36:47,400
Speaker 3: Yes, but I think on a quick diversion, I just

1785
01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:50,960
Speaker 3: want to say thank you to you guys, because first

1786
01:36:50,960 --> 01:36:54,479
Speaker 3: of all, I think between you and me and a

1787
01:36:54,560 --> 01:36:57,880
Speaker 3: couple of others in the non elected space, we are

1788
01:36:57,920 --> 01:37:02,080
Speaker 3: blamed for killing that horrible idea to sell off the

1789
01:37:02,120 --> 01:37:06,120
Speaker 3: three million acres. It didn't matter that Patagonia took a

1790
01:37:06,160 --> 01:37:08,320
Speaker 3: stance against the public lands at all. The sell off

1791
01:37:08,640 --> 01:37:10,560
Speaker 3: didn't matter that Sierra Club did that didn't move the

1792
01:37:10,640 --> 01:37:12,439
Speaker 3: needle at all. In fact, it probably hurt that they

1793
01:37:12,520 --> 01:37:16,880
Speaker 3: weren't engaged. It mattered because center left, center and center

1794
01:37:16,960 --> 01:37:21,160
Speaker 3: right voters who were largely in your communities Joe Rogan's

1795
01:37:21,200 --> 01:37:25,640
Speaker 3: community campaign's community and in our community were saying no,

1796
01:37:26,200 --> 01:37:29,080
Speaker 3: hands off. Because that's the broad coal that's the power

1797
01:37:29,120 --> 01:37:32,000
Speaker 3: of a broad coalition, because no matter what the moment is,

1798
01:37:32,120 --> 01:37:34,920
Speaker 3: you're meeting it. Then, right, you're meeting the moment because

1799
01:37:34,920 --> 01:37:36,720
Speaker 3: you have the broad coalition. And it's nice that the

1800
01:37:36,840 --> 01:37:39,040
Speaker 3: people in California were saying things, and it's nice that

1801
01:37:39,080 --> 01:37:41,600
Speaker 3: the people in Washington didn't like they should. But that

1802
01:37:41,720 --> 01:37:43,599
Speaker 3: didn't move the needle on that one. But maybe it'll

1803
01:37:43,640 --> 01:37:44,880
Speaker 3: move the needle on a different one.

1804
01:37:45,000 --> 01:37:48,160
Speaker 1: Right, Maybe if I tell my family something and my

1805
01:37:48,280 --> 01:37:50,960
Speaker 1: kids get real mad, and then also my wife's mad,

1806
01:37:56,200 --> 01:37:56,799
Speaker 1: she's mad.

1807
01:37:57,960 --> 01:38:01,120
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly, And so I want to thank you for

1808
01:38:01,200 --> 01:38:03,840
Speaker 3: that in the areas where you know, quote unquote didn't

1809
01:38:03,880 --> 01:38:05,120
Speaker 3: make an impact, right, like the.

1810
01:38:06,720 --> 01:38:10,559
Speaker 7: Rosy picture of the idea, right is it's building equity, yes, right,

1811
01:38:10,960 --> 01:38:13,800
Speaker 7: and there's going to be this like alarm bells went off?

1812
01:38:14,439 --> 01:38:15,519
Speaker 1: Right, why is that?

1813
01:38:15,640 --> 01:38:16,799
Speaker 7: What's the deal with this issue?

1814
01:38:17,360 --> 01:38:17,400
Speaker 1: No?

1815
01:38:17,520 --> 01:38:18,519
Speaker 2: And it's all very important.

1816
01:38:18,560 --> 01:38:22,479
Speaker 7: I already said I support the troops. Right, people are

1817
01:38:22,479 --> 01:38:25,040
Speaker 7: still looking at me weird what's going on.

1818
01:38:25,760 --> 01:38:27,720
Speaker 3: But that's that's the power of this broad coalition. So

1819
01:38:27,760 --> 01:38:31,080
Speaker 3: I just say that to say also, that's how like

1820
01:38:31,479 --> 01:38:33,120
Speaker 3: in the future, it will be different states that are

1821
01:38:33,160 --> 01:38:35,880
Speaker 3: relevant for different environmental initiatives and will need those people

1822
01:38:35,920 --> 01:38:38,960
Speaker 3: there too. So but you know, there's some really good

1823
01:38:39,040 --> 01:38:42,519
Speaker 3: people there like Martin Heinrich and Tim Sheehy and you

1824
01:38:42,600 --> 01:38:46,840
Speaker 3: know Crapo and Danes and who care about conservation and

1825
01:38:46,920 --> 01:38:50,160
Speaker 3: there's overlap with this idea, but they also don't have

1826
01:38:50,200 --> 01:38:52,200
Speaker 3: a lot of space to work within, like they they

1827
01:38:52,360 --> 01:38:55,080
Speaker 3: they all actually, whether they want to publicly acknowledge this

1828
01:38:55,240 --> 01:38:59,320
Speaker 3: or not, they really were happy about the pushback because

1829
01:38:59,360 --> 01:39:02,719
Speaker 3: it gave them the ability to do what they actually

1830
01:39:02,800 --> 01:39:06,200
Speaker 3: wanted to do, right like, especially for a Republican A

1831
01:39:06,280 --> 01:39:08,960
Speaker 3: lot of Republicans. I know for a fact that there

1832
01:39:09,000 --> 01:39:12,120
Speaker 3: were about sixteen other Republican senators who wanted to stand

1833
01:39:12,200 --> 01:39:14,439
Speaker 3: up against the public man sell Off, but they didn't

1834
01:39:14,439 --> 01:39:18,640
Speaker 3: feel like it was politically helpful to do so. And

1835
01:39:20,360 --> 01:39:22,559
Speaker 3: until they feel like there's that space to step out

1836
01:39:22,640 --> 01:39:25,040
Speaker 3: and say, actually, this is not only what I don't want,

1837
01:39:25,080 --> 01:39:27,960
Speaker 3: but it's also what my voters don't want. They're going

1838
01:39:28,000 --> 01:39:30,800
Speaker 3: to be more gun shy. And you look at the

1839
01:39:30,960 --> 01:39:33,280
Speaker 3: senators who spoke out. We all knew that they didn't

1840
01:39:33,280 --> 01:39:35,559
Speaker 3: want this to happen from the get go, but because

1841
01:39:35,600 --> 01:39:37,559
Speaker 3: there were so many voters saying they didn't want it too,

1842
01:39:37,840 --> 01:39:40,800
Speaker 3: then they're like, well, now I can justify speaking out.

1843
01:39:41,520 --> 01:39:44,160
Speaker 3: That's kind of American democracy at work in a time

1844
01:39:44,200 --> 01:39:46,639
Speaker 3: when people are just don't really speaking out about things

1845
01:39:46,720 --> 01:39:49,439
Speaker 3: other than the radical extremes. So that's where like the

1846
01:39:49,520 --> 01:39:51,960
Speaker 3: rational middle standing together to say, oh, we support the troops,

1847
01:39:52,000 --> 01:39:54,879
Speaker 3: Oh we support the environment and conservation. It gives space

1848
01:39:55,400 --> 01:39:57,080
Speaker 3: for not just the Heinrix and the ones who are

1849
01:39:57,120 --> 01:40:00,799
Speaker 3: always going to be willing to put their like Martin Heinrich,

1850
01:40:00,880 --> 01:40:01,599
Speaker 3: who we all love.

1851
01:40:02,080 --> 01:40:03,240
Speaker 2: I think maybe I don't know.

1852
01:40:03,600 --> 01:40:07,439
Speaker 1: I love him. No, I like him. I like him personally, Yes,

1853
01:40:08,479 --> 01:40:10,920
Speaker 1: he's a rare I like him personally, Yes. And I

1854
01:40:11,040 --> 01:40:15,160
Speaker 1: appreciate his constant advocacy on behalf of public lands. Yes.

1855
01:40:15,240 --> 01:40:21,799
Speaker 1: And I appreciate that he of many things I appreciate.

1856
01:40:21,840 --> 01:40:24,200
Speaker 1: I appreciate that he is willing to be like a

1857
01:40:24,320 --> 01:40:28,960
Speaker 1: very outspoken hunter right, and a yeah in a in

1858
01:40:29,080 --> 01:40:31,720
Speaker 1: a in a a in a political party where that's

1859
01:40:31,800 --> 01:40:34,360
Speaker 1: not always the most uh, it's not always the most

1860
01:40:34,400 --> 01:40:35,479
Speaker 1: welcome identity to have.

1861
01:40:35,800 --> 01:40:38,000
Speaker 3: And Tim Sheehy, when I've had conversations with him, will

1862
01:40:38,000 --> 01:40:41,960
Speaker 3: be like Montana cares more about conservation and the outdoors

1863
01:40:42,000 --> 01:40:45,760
Speaker 3: than you know any other place, you know, arguably, and

1864
01:40:45,840 --> 01:40:47,560
Speaker 3: so I I have to lead on this, but I

1865
01:40:47,600 --> 01:40:51,400
Speaker 3: also want to both of those two gentlemen go against

1866
01:40:51,400 --> 01:40:52,720
Speaker 3: the grain in a lot of ways of what they're

1867
01:40:52,760 --> 01:40:54,080
Speaker 3: quote unquote supposed to do.

1868
01:40:54,880 --> 01:40:56,960
Speaker 2: There's very few leaders like that in d C.

1869
01:40:57,479 --> 01:40:59,760
Speaker 3: Right, Like, that's the world that I'm you know, really

1870
01:41:00,080 --> 01:41:04,880
Speaker 3: unfortunately familiar with, and we need to give space not

1871
01:41:05,040 --> 01:41:06,680
Speaker 3: just for those guys who are always going to try

1872
01:41:06,680 --> 01:41:08,200
Speaker 3: to stick their neck out as much as possible, but

1873
01:41:08,240 --> 01:41:10,439
Speaker 3: also the kind of the cowards. To be honest, they're

1874
01:41:10,439 --> 01:41:11,840
Speaker 3: always going to be cowards and the Senate in the

1875
01:41:11,880 --> 01:41:13,880
Speaker 3: House who actually do want to do the right thing though,

1876
01:41:14,560 --> 01:41:16,200
Speaker 3: and they just don't feel like they have a space

1877
01:41:16,240 --> 01:41:17,800
Speaker 3: to do it. And that's the power of the movement

1878
01:41:17,840 --> 01:41:20,519
Speaker 3: that I think we could build, because there's an underbelly there.

1879
01:41:20,760 --> 01:41:23,559
Speaker 3: If you talk to those sixteen Republican senators who wanted

1880
01:41:23,600 --> 01:41:25,560
Speaker 3: to speak out about it. I guarantee you if I

1881
01:41:25,640 --> 01:41:28,000
Speaker 3: said there's gonna be a million people in your state

1882
01:41:28,520 --> 01:41:30,960
Speaker 3: right and left, we're speaking out about this in your favor,

1883
01:41:30,960 --> 01:41:33,080
Speaker 3: they would have been like, Okay, than I can too,

1884
01:41:33,479 --> 01:41:34,960
Speaker 3: and that's the power we.

1885
01:41:34,960 --> 01:41:35,400
Speaker 2: Need to build.

1886
01:41:36,080 --> 01:41:38,439
Speaker 1: Let's change subject of teeny bit or change focus at

1887
01:41:38,439 --> 01:41:44,680
Speaker 1: teeny bit. If you're sitting there as a guy that

1888
01:41:45,280 --> 01:41:49,320
Speaker 1: grew up and you had conservative principles, right, and you

1889
01:41:49,400 --> 01:41:52,360
Speaker 1: felt that like the party I kind of instinctively want

1890
01:41:52,439 --> 01:41:55,880
Speaker 1: to align myself with, Like they just are not representing

1891
01:41:55,960 --> 01:41:59,320
Speaker 1: my environmental concerns, right, I need them to. I want

1892
01:41:59,360 --> 01:42:03,920
Speaker 1: to change that position from your perspective, Like, what do

1893
01:42:04,000 --> 01:42:05,919
Speaker 1: you have to say if you had a private audience?

1894
01:42:06,160 --> 01:42:08,920
Speaker 1: So you have a private this is a private audience, right, Yeah.

1895
01:42:09,880 --> 01:42:15,040
Speaker 1: So so the houses, the Democrats in the House and Senate,

1896
01:42:16,280 --> 01:42:18,360
Speaker 1: they come to you and say what can we be

1897
01:42:18,439 --> 01:42:20,439
Speaker 1: what could we be doing different? What can we be

1898
01:42:20,520 --> 01:42:25,439
Speaker 1: doing different? What to them? Because it can't be that

1899
01:42:25,680 --> 01:42:28,200
Speaker 1: like they got it just right now, and you just

1900
01:42:28,320 --> 01:42:32,280
Speaker 1: want you just want the Republicans have adopt their approach,

1901
01:42:32,960 --> 01:42:35,719
Speaker 1: like where are they missing? Where are they losing people?

1902
01:42:35,920 --> 01:42:38,120
Speaker 1: Where are they missing? Where could they be more effective?

1903
01:42:38,280 --> 01:42:40,240
Speaker 1: When I say, I mean like a big day like

1904
01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:44,720
Speaker 1: the Democrats on average, Ye, like the Party of the Democrats.

1905
01:42:45,120 --> 01:42:45,880
Speaker 1: Where do they miss?

1906
01:42:46,120 --> 01:42:48,360
Speaker 3: Well, I think I'll reiterate, I think both sides are

1907
01:42:48,360 --> 01:42:50,920
Speaker 3: failing almost pretty equally on this issue. And the way

1908
01:42:50,960 --> 01:42:54,240
Speaker 3: that the Left has failed is it has been so

1909
01:42:54,360 --> 01:42:56,760
Speaker 3: much about climate and kind of this hysteria around Like

1910
01:42:57,640 --> 01:43:00,320
Speaker 3: I believe in climate change, and I you know, I'm

1911
01:43:00,360 --> 01:43:02,439
Speaker 3: not afraid to say that, but like when you're just

1912
01:43:02,560 --> 01:43:06,599
Speaker 3: talking about carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, like, climate change

1913
01:43:06,680 --> 01:43:09,160
Speaker 3: doesn't matter if we destroy all the wild places that

1914
01:43:09,280 --> 01:43:12,479
Speaker 3: we have left, right, Like it's like a distant priority.

1915
01:43:12,960 --> 01:43:14,880
Speaker 3: If you destroy the Amazon and you destroy all the

1916
01:43:14,920 --> 01:43:16,840
Speaker 3: wild places that we all love to recreate in, then

1917
01:43:16,920 --> 01:43:18,920
Speaker 3: we might as well just keep eating up the climate

1918
01:43:19,280 --> 01:43:23,840
Speaker 3: because we're all screwed. So they've kind of forgotten to

1919
01:43:23,920 --> 01:43:27,160
Speaker 3: work on conservation because they've been so focused on this other.

1920
01:43:27,040 --> 01:43:28,679
Speaker 1: Issue technical solutions.

1921
01:43:28,800 --> 01:43:28,920
Speaker 3: Right.

1922
01:43:29,320 --> 01:43:30,840
Speaker 2: Green New Deal, you.

1923
01:43:30,920 --> 01:43:33,840
Speaker 3: Know, is an oversimplified way to give the analogy, but

1924
01:43:33,920 --> 01:43:38,040
Speaker 3: it's basically, you know, that was their whole environmental platform,

1925
01:43:38,479 --> 01:43:40,040
Speaker 3: and you were like, well, if you look at the

1926
01:43:40,080 --> 01:43:42,599
Speaker 3: Green New Deal, it had nothing to do with public lands,

1927
01:43:42,640 --> 01:43:47,280
Speaker 3: private land conservation, sustainable ag forestry, water quality. It just

1928
01:43:47,400 --> 01:43:51,400
Speaker 3: only had to do with energy and EVS and technical infrastructure.

1929
01:43:52,160 --> 01:43:55,559
Speaker 3: So that's where they've really failed. And it's also been

1930
01:43:55,600 --> 01:43:57,560
Speaker 3: a race to the left. What's the most that you

1931
01:43:57,680 --> 01:44:00,400
Speaker 3: can do to be as radical as you can out

1932
01:44:00,640 --> 01:44:02,400
Speaker 3: to say you care more than the other person. But

1933
01:44:02,479 --> 01:44:04,640
Speaker 3: it's all about grand standing and it's all about like

1934
01:44:04,720 --> 01:44:07,040
Speaker 3: these pledges and these goals, but there's nothing behind them.

1935
01:44:07,520 --> 01:44:11,080
Speaker 3: Like I went to cop the UN Climate Conference for

1936
01:44:11,240 --> 01:44:13,559
Speaker 3: three years in a row, and it was the most

1937
01:44:14,320 --> 01:44:17,519
Speaker 3: abysmal time of my life because it was just like, well,

1938
01:44:17,680 --> 01:44:19,880
Speaker 3: if we have this pledge to be one hundred percent

1939
01:44:19,960 --> 01:44:22,600
Speaker 3: renewable by twenty thirty, that would be better than this

1940
01:44:22,800 --> 01:44:25,639
Speaker 3: company's pledge, or this country's pledge, or you know whoever

1941
01:44:25,640 --> 01:44:26,360
Speaker 3: the stakeholder was.

1942
01:44:26,520 --> 01:44:28,360
Speaker 2: And it was like, what are you actually gonna do?

1943
01:44:29,120 --> 01:44:29,280
Speaker 7: Right?

1944
01:44:29,400 --> 01:44:31,960
Speaker 3: Like there there's no it's all about the messaging and

1945
01:44:32,000 --> 01:44:33,880
Speaker 3: it's not about the details. And the last thing that

1946
01:44:33,920 --> 01:44:36,519
Speaker 3: I think that they failed that is it has been

1947
01:44:36,680 --> 01:44:40,200
Speaker 3: you know this age old conservation versus preservation is like

1948
01:44:40,320 --> 01:44:43,160
Speaker 3: the debate, right, it's been going on for centuries and

1949
01:44:43,200 --> 01:44:46,160
Speaker 3: in America specifically in the last century, they've been hinging

1950
01:44:46,320 --> 01:44:50,160
Speaker 3: very closely to just working on preservation rather than conservation

1951
01:44:50,560 --> 01:44:55,160
Speaker 3: and restricting access for hunting and angling and getting outdoors

1952
01:44:55,240 --> 01:44:57,879
Speaker 3: and like people are so scared of like resource development

1953
01:44:58,040 --> 01:45:00,720
Speaker 3: and using public lands for other and then just like

1954
01:45:01,479 --> 01:45:03,799
Speaker 3: the Zero Clubs saying they want to watch the bears

1955
01:45:04,080 --> 01:45:07,000
Speaker 3: or the wolves and not hunt, you know, hunt them,

1956
01:45:07,080 --> 01:45:08,680
Speaker 3: Like that's kind of been the mindset has been the

1957
01:45:08,760 --> 01:45:11,880
Speaker 3: Zero Club mindset. And so in a similar way that

1958
01:45:11,920 --> 01:45:14,360
Speaker 3: the right has completely failed and is failing right now

1959
01:45:15,040 --> 01:45:18,400
Speaker 3: and we're seeing it. It's their turn to fail. The

1960
01:45:18,520 --> 01:45:21,880
Speaker 3: left has been failing too, and at some point one

1961
01:45:21,920 --> 01:45:23,880
Speaker 3: of the parties will get it right, or hopefully ideally

1962
01:45:24,040 --> 01:45:25,920
Speaker 3: both of them get it right, but right now that

1963
01:45:26,000 --> 01:45:26,720
Speaker 3: neither one of them is.

1964
01:45:27,320 --> 01:45:32,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, the use ray like we're both in New York City. Yeah,

1965
01:45:32,439 --> 01:45:38,920
Speaker 7: And man, the riot that would ensue if somebody was like, yeah,

1966
01:45:38,960 --> 01:45:43,560
Speaker 7: we're just gonna make Central Park off limits, right, just

1967
01:45:43,680 --> 01:45:46,679
Speaker 7: I was up with this Upper West Side array.

1968
01:45:47,160 --> 01:45:48,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean.

1969
01:45:49,760 --> 01:45:51,360
Speaker 6: We don't want we you know, we don't want people

1970
01:45:51,400 --> 01:45:53,519
Speaker 6: to interfere with the squirrel movement, right.

1971
01:45:53,680 --> 01:45:55,320
Speaker 2: The squirrel movements, squirrel migration.

1972
01:45:55,640 --> 01:46:01,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, a couple of like quick anecdotes for rip over

1973
01:46:01,920 --> 01:46:08,400
Speaker 7: their brutal travel and get on the island of Manhattan.

1974
01:46:08,479 --> 01:46:11,920
Speaker 7: As soon as he get into Manhattan, there's this guy

1975
01:46:12,520 --> 01:46:14,920
Speaker 7: who does not look like me, probably has very different

1976
01:46:15,000 --> 01:46:18,000
Speaker 7: ideas about a lot of things, on an electric scooter,

1977
01:46:20,280 --> 01:46:24,080
Speaker 7: flying through traffic, and he's got two fishing rods strapped

1978
01:46:24,080 --> 01:46:27,640
Speaker 7: to his back coming off the Hudson. And I was

1979
01:46:27,760 --> 01:46:31,479
Speaker 7: just like, Okay, this guy and I like, we can

1980
01:46:31,560 --> 01:46:35,439
Speaker 7: have a conversation, I guarantee you. I thought that was

1981
01:46:35,520 --> 01:46:40,280
Speaker 7: just super awesome to see. And then yeah, the conversations

1982
01:46:40,280 --> 01:46:42,920
Speaker 7: that I had about like the parks, because I was

1983
01:46:43,080 --> 01:46:45,719
Speaker 7: blown away by how many dogs are on the Upper

1984
01:46:45,800 --> 01:46:49,679
Speaker 7: West Side and people like they do whatever it takes

1985
01:46:50,160 --> 01:46:55,880
Speaker 7: to maintain a dog friendly lifestyle. And I thought that

1986
01:46:56,120 --> 01:46:58,439
Speaker 7: and it, you know, it obviously like connects to these

1987
01:46:59,160 --> 01:47:03,760
Speaker 7: park systems, right. And I thought that was just a

1988
01:47:03,920 --> 01:47:07,439
Speaker 7: good example of like, here's this very this this group

1989
01:47:07,479 --> 01:47:09,639
Speaker 7: of people that I would put in a very nature

1990
01:47:09,760 --> 01:47:16,439
Speaker 7: disconnected category who have totally changed their lives in order

1991
01:47:16,520 --> 01:47:20,800
Speaker 7: to have that connection with that version of nature. Right.

1992
01:47:20,920 --> 01:47:23,320
Speaker 7: And they were like bird watchers, Holy, now.

1993
01:47:23,520 --> 01:47:24,800
Speaker 2: So many birdwatchers in New York.

1994
01:47:25,160 --> 01:47:27,560
Speaker 7: I was amazed. I was pretty pretty amazed with that.

1995
01:47:27,720 --> 01:47:28,320
Speaker 1: And then.

1996
01:47:30,439 --> 01:47:32,519
Speaker 7: But kind of to go back to the like the

1997
01:47:32,600 --> 01:47:39,400
Speaker 7: farm ranch community and where a lot of environmental groups

1998
01:47:39,479 --> 01:47:42,240
Speaker 7: have just like again lost connection with the end consumers.

1999
01:47:42,280 --> 01:47:49,479
Speaker 7: Another example, man, the majority of farmer rancher folks that

2000
01:47:49,560 --> 01:47:53,720
Speaker 7: I know address climate change every single day. It is

2001
01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:56,920
Speaker 7: part of their business as part as their their business plan.

2002
01:47:58,479 --> 01:48:02,360
Speaker 7: And they are so aware of the changes and the

2003
01:48:02,400 --> 01:48:05,960
Speaker 7: effects of climate change. Uh, the only way that they're

2004
01:48:06,000 --> 01:48:07,680
Speaker 7: going to be viable is.

2005
01:48:07,800 --> 01:48:10,599
Speaker 2: By adapting, mitigating all the above.

2006
01:48:10,800 --> 01:48:11,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, and they are doing it.

2007
01:48:12,360 --> 01:48:13,200
Speaker 1: And they do not.

2008
01:48:15,000 --> 01:48:18,120
Speaker 7: Want to be associated with the climate change crowd, no, right,

2009
01:48:18,479 --> 01:48:20,760
Speaker 7: but they're doing it every single day and they.

2010
01:48:20,640 --> 01:48:22,240
Speaker 2: Are the climate change ground.

2011
01:48:22,479 --> 01:48:24,840
Speaker 1: They don't want anybody to think they're a weirdo. Yeah,

2012
01:48:25,360 --> 01:48:27,960
Speaker 1: oh yeah, a liberal hit. Yeah. And it was like

2013
01:48:28,080 --> 01:48:30,640
Speaker 1: when my calves hit the ground, when I plant this,

2014
01:48:30,880 --> 01:48:32,800
Speaker 1: when I picked that, What I'm gonna do about water?

2015
01:48:33,040 --> 01:48:34,759
Speaker 7: How am I going to change what I plant?

2016
01:48:35,080 --> 01:48:35,120
Speaker 1: What?

2017
01:48:35,400 --> 01:48:38,400
Speaker 7: You know, what is worth it now versus was worth

2018
01:48:38,439 --> 01:48:41,240
Speaker 7: it ten years ago. As far as like field cultivation

2019
01:48:41,439 --> 01:48:45,400
Speaker 7: or non field cultivation, bringing what crops to market, the

2020
01:48:45,479 --> 01:48:48,680
Speaker 7: whole the whole thing. Water use, right, fertilizer, use all

2021
01:48:48,760 --> 01:48:53,360
Speaker 7: of it. And if you're not doing these things like

2022
01:48:53,560 --> 01:48:55,680
Speaker 7: you're you're not going to be around, you're not out

2023
01:48:55,680 --> 01:48:56,080
Speaker 7: of business.

2024
01:48:57,479 --> 01:48:58,400
Speaker 1: That's an interesting point.

2025
01:48:58,680 --> 01:49:02,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, And and then they hate they get the lecture

2026
01:49:02,880 --> 01:49:05,519
Speaker 3: to them, the environmentalist lecture to them, even though they're

2027
01:49:05,560 --> 01:49:07,320
Speaker 3: the ones doing in a lot.

2028
01:49:07,439 --> 01:49:10,760
Speaker 7: And some hook and bullet organizations too, like they use

2029
01:49:11,120 --> 01:49:13,400
Speaker 7: what I would call at this point like boiler plate

2030
01:49:14,280 --> 01:49:19,280
Speaker 7: conservation speak, right, and it's ian. It's the same version

2031
01:49:19,520 --> 01:49:23,559
Speaker 7: slightly tweaked for the last twenty years, right, that's going

2032
01:49:23,640 --> 01:49:26,160
Speaker 7: out to everybody, and they're like, well, this resonates. I'm like, well,

2033
01:49:26,160 --> 01:49:29,080
Speaker 7: it doesn't resonate with people with the dirt under their

2034
01:49:29,080 --> 01:49:29,960
Speaker 7: fingernails doing it.

2035
01:49:30,479 --> 01:49:33,800
Speaker 2: But the problem is philanthropy, so that there's money type,

2036
01:49:33,840 --> 01:49:35,240
Speaker 2: there's so much money tied to it.

2037
01:49:35,320 --> 01:49:37,880
Speaker 3: And that's that's where I that's another world that I

2038
01:49:37,920 --> 01:49:41,240
Speaker 3: have to work in, is the philanthropic world where you know,

2039
01:49:41,280 --> 01:49:43,040
Speaker 3: and probably shouldn't even be talking about this because they

2040
01:49:43,040 --> 01:49:44,680
Speaker 3: probably don't like that i'd be saying this, but it's

2041
01:49:44,760 --> 01:49:48,439
Speaker 3: like they are so out of touch, but they have

2042
01:49:48,560 --> 01:49:52,080
Speaker 3: so much money and they're funding these campaigns, they're funding

2043
01:49:52,080 --> 01:49:53,640
Speaker 3: the zero clubs of the world. When they're doing this

2044
01:49:53,720 --> 01:49:59,439
Speaker 3: anti bear thing, for sure, they're also funding these very preachy,

2045
01:49:59,520 --> 01:50:04,040
Speaker 3: condescens Rural people are screwed up and dumb and like

2046
01:50:04,320 --> 01:50:06,360
Speaker 3: are doing the wrong thing all the time, and we

2047
01:50:06,479 --> 01:50:10,959
Speaker 3: need to take it back because farming an egg and industry,

2048
01:50:11,320 --> 01:50:14,560
Speaker 3: they are the bane of our existence and we have

2049
01:50:14,720 --> 01:50:17,960
Speaker 3: to basically ban them from society if we're gonna keep going.

2050
01:50:18,080 --> 01:50:20,000
Speaker 7: And it's it's like, and don't even get into the

2051
01:50:20,080 --> 01:50:23,360
Speaker 7: nuance of like the definition of rural if you're standing

2052
01:50:23,720 --> 01:50:27,120
Speaker 7: in Manhattan, the definition of rural if you're standing in

2053
01:50:27,240 --> 01:50:28,120
Speaker 7: cold Foot, Alaska.

2054
01:50:28,280 --> 01:50:31,720
Speaker 3: The philanthropists are only the philanthropists would not survive a

2055
01:50:31,960 --> 01:50:35,280
Speaker 3: literally ten minutes there. They live in San Francisco, they

2056
01:50:35,320 --> 01:50:38,360
Speaker 3: live in New York, and they live in Chicago. Those

2057
01:50:38,360 --> 01:50:40,120
Speaker 3: are kind of the and a little bit of la

2058
01:50:40,200 --> 01:50:43,000
Speaker 3: Those are the four places they don't leave there and

2059
01:50:43,560 --> 01:50:46,160
Speaker 3: they are in the biggest bubble if you think, like DC,

2060
01:50:46,360 --> 01:50:48,240
Speaker 3: the swamp is a bubble which people want to drain.

2061
01:50:48,760 --> 01:50:50,760
Speaker 2: Philanthropy needs to be drained.

2062
01:50:50,560 --> 01:50:53,640
Speaker 3: Like it's it's crazy what I have to put up

2063
01:50:53,680 --> 01:50:58,000
Speaker 3: with with philanthropists and how disconnected they are, and they

2064
01:50:58,280 --> 01:51:01,080
Speaker 3: actually don't understand what's going on in America at all,

2065
01:51:01,320 --> 01:51:04,479
Speaker 3: and yet they are funding tens of billions of dollars

2066
01:51:04,720 --> 01:51:08,679
Speaker 3: of nonprofits to dominate the narrative. And so that's also

2067
01:51:08,720 --> 01:51:12,360
Speaker 3: part of my plan right, is to represent in an

2068
01:51:12,479 --> 01:51:18,600
Speaker 3: environmental movement America. Actually, because the environmentalist groups can't do that.

2069
01:51:18,760 --> 01:51:20,800
Speaker 3: They literally can't. That's why I have such an advantage here.

2070
01:51:21,000 --> 01:51:22,920
Speaker 3: They can't even they can't they can't even try to

2071
01:51:22,960 --> 01:51:26,360
Speaker 3: do what we're doing because they're funded to not do that,

2072
01:51:27,680 --> 01:51:31,799
Speaker 3: and they are in philanthropy is so screwed up because

2073
01:51:32,040 --> 01:51:36,320
Speaker 3: a nonprofit only exists if they get the money, and

2074
01:51:36,439 --> 01:51:38,960
Speaker 3: you only raise money if there are problems, And so

2075
01:51:39,080 --> 01:51:41,320
Speaker 3: what's the Is there an incentive to solve the problem.

2076
01:51:41,400 --> 01:51:43,599
Speaker 3: Then no, because if you solve the problem, you lose

2077
01:51:43,640 --> 01:51:48,400
Speaker 3: your job. So there's there's there's you know, that's where

2078
01:51:48,400 --> 01:51:51,000
Speaker 3: the disconnected messaging comes from because the people who are

2079
01:51:51,040 --> 01:51:53,519
Speaker 3: dominating that from a financial perspective, who are donating to

2080
01:51:53,640 --> 01:51:55,920
Speaker 3: these groups, have no idea how real America lives.

2081
01:51:55,960 --> 01:51:59,400
Speaker 1: I'm going to give you a very weird, petty example

2082
01:51:59,400 --> 01:52:04,320
Speaker 1: of what you're talking about. I remember, uh when I

2083
01:52:04,360 --> 01:52:07,560
Speaker 1: remember watching Just in the News, when when Michael Bloomberg, No,

2084
01:52:07,680 --> 01:52:10,560
Speaker 1: not Bloomberg. Who's the guy the tall guy kind of

2085
01:52:10,680 --> 01:52:12,160
Speaker 1: left in a little bit of a scandal. Mayor of

2086
01:52:12,240 --> 01:52:17,360
Speaker 1: New York City Blasio. I remember right away when de

2087
01:52:17,439 --> 01:52:22,240
Speaker 1: Blasio got elected, I haven't thought about and scamd.

2088
01:52:22,479 --> 01:52:23,320
Speaker 7: I was like, still.

2089
01:52:26,720 --> 01:52:27,599
Speaker 1: Bloomberg shor.

2090
01:52:29,520 --> 01:52:30,400
Speaker 6: He pulled that up on the screen.

2091
01:52:32,479 --> 01:52:33,519
Speaker 2: Can you put up all the Michaels.

2092
01:52:35,280 --> 01:52:37,519
Speaker 1: I remember when he when he came in, like a

2093
01:52:37,600 --> 01:52:40,559
Speaker 1: thing he did very early was this like thing about

2094
01:52:41,320 --> 01:52:43,720
Speaker 1: we laughed about it on the show, but he came

2095
01:52:43,800 --> 01:52:48,360
Speaker 1: in and very early had this thing about the rules

2096
01:52:48,400 --> 01:52:49,360
Speaker 1: about the horses.

2097
01:52:50,080 --> 01:52:50,439
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

2098
01:52:53,280 --> 01:52:55,720
Speaker 1: I remember being like, if that is not an example

2099
01:52:56,280 --> 01:53:01,519
Speaker 1: of someone giving that guy money and saying listen, you know,

2100
01:53:02,040 --> 01:53:04,080
Speaker 1: and he's like, okay, got it. I'll try to remember,

2101
01:53:04,160 --> 01:53:05,920
Speaker 1: like you give me a bunch of money and some

2102
01:53:06,200 --> 01:53:09,680
Speaker 1: about the horses. Got it? Like it was so transactional,

2103
01:53:09,800 --> 01:53:14,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and that like I imagine, but why not

2104
01:53:14,280 --> 01:53:16,600
Speaker 1: that magic? I've seen it, Like you know, I've had

2105
01:53:16,640 --> 01:53:22,439
Speaker 1: exposure to the nonprofit space where I see where donors

2106
01:53:23,240 --> 01:53:30,800
Speaker 1: philanthropy can come in and manipulate a nonprofit agenda with

2107
01:53:30,960 --> 01:53:31,639
Speaker 1: a big carrot.

2108
01:53:33,240 --> 01:53:35,840
Speaker 2: That's that's really how this all works and they're.

2109
01:53:35,640 --> 01:53:39,200
Speaker 4: Like advocate here though there because there's also ways in

2110
01:53:39,320 --> 01:53:43,320
Speaker 4: which like a group the people as part of an

2111
01:53:43,520 --> 01:53:46,439
Speaker 4: NGO have issues that they care about, Like they want

2112
01:53:46,479 --> 01:53:48,760
Speaker 4: to work on wildlife, they want to work on public lands,

2113
01:53:48,760 --> 01:53:49,400
Speaker 4: they want to do this.

2114
01:53:50,200 --> 01:53:52,160
Speaker 1: And and they see.

2115
01:53:53,439 --> 01:53:56,680
Speaker 4: Grants available and they sort of go, oh, we can

2116
01:53:56,840 --> 01:54:00,679
Speaker 4: tie this to that by framing it this way. They're

2117
01:54:00,800 --> 01:54:04,040
Speaker 4: still trying to solve that problem, you know, like like

2118
01:54:04,120 --> 01:54:07,479
Speaker 4: I don't I don't believe that people at BHA, uh

2119
01:54:08,320 --> 01:54:11,080
Speaker 4: don't want I don't believe that people at BHA want

2120
01:54:11,200 --> 01:54:13,400
Speaker 4: the public lands issue to still to just be a

2121
01:54:13,520 --> 01:54:16,400
Speaker 4: constant football because they actually care about it.

2122
01:54:16,640 --> 01:54:19,040
Speaker 1: No, that's true. They yeah, they're not. They're not like

2123
01:54:19,880 --> 01:54:22,680
Speaker 1: they're definitely not thinking, well, we want to win, not

2124
01:54:22,800 --> 01:54:23,240
Speaker 1: all the way.

2125
01:54:23,360 --> 01:54:26,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then like when they look at a I mean,

2126
01:54:28,640 --> 01:54:31,640
Speaker 4: the philanthropy thing is complicated, and I think that I

2127
01:54:31,680 --> 01:54:34,080
Speaker 4: think it exists on sort of like a spectrum er.

2128
01:54:34,120 --> 01:54:35,080
Speaker 1: It's like a tug of war.

2129
01:54:35,160 --> 01:54:37,040
Speaker 4: It's like, well, we could get into this pot of

2130
01:54:37,160 --> 01:54:39,280
Speaker 4: money if we sort of frame our work in this way,

2131
01:54:39,920 --> 01:54:42,240
Speaker 4: and we can use that money to do what we

2132
01:54:42,440 --> 01:54:45,480
Speaker 4: really want to do. And sometimes you can get too

2133
01:54:45,760 --> 01:54:50,800
Speaker 4: tugged too far outside of your core issues. But there's

2134
01:54:50,840 --> 01:54:53,680
Speaker 4: also a lot of ways in which they're using that

2135
01:54:53,840 --> 01:54:58,440
Speaker 4: money strategically to get to sort of pour more gas

2136
01:54:58,560 --> 01:54:59,960
Speaker 4: on the fire and what they really want to work.

2137
01:55:00,320 --> 01:55:02,240
Speaker 3: I agree, but I think I think a lot of

2138
01:55:02,280 --> 01:55:04,560
Speaker 3: it's subconsciously going in the wrong direction. So what I

2139
01:55:04,600 --> 01:55:06,440
Speaker 3: mean by this is during the public lands sell off,

2140
01:55:07,640 --> 01:55:11,320
Speaker 3: the Senator Mike Lee, if you remember on Twitter, was

2141
01:55:11,400 --> 01:55:13,680
Speaker 3: going after me largely because of what I was saying

2142
01:55:13,720 --> 01:55:16,440
Speaker 3: on social media, and his whole conspiracy is that I

2143
01:55:16,560 --> 01:55:20,040
Speaker 3: was funded to go against him. I will be transparent.

2144
01:55:20,080 --> 01:55:25,600
Speaker 3: I raised fifty thousand dollars after it happened, fifty thousand dollars.

2145
01:55:26,520 --> 01:55:30,560
Speaker 3: I know that there are so many massive environmental NGOs

2146
01:55:31,360 --> 01:55:34,480
Speaker 3: who took this massive public stand, again not moving the

2147
01:55:34,520 --> 01:55:36,760
Speaker 3: needle at all, but they were like, you know, screw you,

2148
01:55:36,920 --> 01:55:39,800
Speaker 3: President Trump, screw you, Mike Lee, screw you whatever. They

2149
01:55:39,960 --> 01:55:44,200
Speaker 3: raised tens of millions of dollars off of that because

2150
01:55:44,240 --> 01:55:45,880
Speaker 3: they tried to make a name for themselves in a

2151
01:55:45,960 --> 01:55:47,480
Speaker 3: time where they weren't actually doing anything.

2152
01:55:47,560 --> 01:55:50,640
Speaker 1: Probably were not impactful because they weren't talking to anybody.

2153
01:55:50,280 --> 01:55:53,320
Speaker 3: Knew, right, So Mike Lee had actually in a strange

2154
01:55:53,360 --> 01:55:56,320
Speaker 3: way the right thought process there, which is like Benjie's

2155
01:55:56,320 --> 01:55:58,000
Speaker 3: probably using this to raise a ton of money, and

2156
01:55:58,080 --> 01:56:00,440
Speaker 3: I didn't because I didn't even plan and get involved

2157
01:56:00,440 --> 01:56:01,720
Speaker 3: in that, because I didn't know it was coming down

2158
01:56:01,760 --> 01:56:03,960
Speaker 3: the pike. Like there was like you couldn't even plan for, right.

2159
01:56:04,040 --> 01:56:06,280
Speaker 3: We all found out pretty last minute, and we all

2160
01:56:06,360 --> 01:56:08,360
Speaker 3: just did what we needed to do, so there wasn't

2161
01:56:08,360 --> 01:56:12,800
Speaker 3: some coordinated effort. But these groups are incentivized to make

2162
01:56:12,880 --> 01:56:15,200
Speaker 3: it seem like they are doing more than they actually

2163
01:56:15,240 --> 01:56:18,000
Speaker 3: are and to take harder stances than what actually would

2164
01:56:18,040 --> 01:56:20,960
Speaker 3: move the needle because they know that that's where philanthropy is, like,

2165
01:56:21,000 --> 01:56:23,600
Speaker 3: oh thank god, you know this group is taking such

2166
01:56:23,640 --> 01:56:26,240
Speaker 3: a hard stand, but there's not actually like an outcome

2167
01:56:26,360 --> 01:56:29,160
Speaker 3: thought of it. And so I think that you're right.

2168
01:56:29,640 --> 01:56:32,120
Speaker 3: But a lot of groups raise money when they don't

2169
01:56:32,200 --> 01:56:35,360
Speaker 3: actually do anything with it. And I'm not saying BHA specifically,

2170
01:56:35,400 --> 01:56:37,640
Speaker 3: I don't know enough about that, but well, i'll give you.

2171
01:56:38,080 --> 01:56:42,760
Speaker 7: An example to your point. So roadless rule, Right, I'm

2172
01:56:42,800 --> 01:56:45,240
Speaker 7: working with a bunch of different groups and talking about

2173
01:56:45,400 --> 01:56:48,600
Speaker 7: roadless rule, and this kind of ties in a couple

2174
01:56:48,640 --> 01:56:51,720
Speaker 7: of points I've been made today is right, Like, we're

2175
01:56:51,760 --> 01:56:55,920
Speaker 7: not even at the actual conversation about roadless rule because

2176
01:56:55,920 --> 01:56:59,480
Speaker 7: it's not about timber, it's not about public access to

2177
01:57:00,080 --> 01:57:05,879
Speaker 7: these areas. It's not, in my opinion, actually about wildfire mitigation.

2178
01:57:07,280 --> 01:57:09,640
Speaker 7: So just tell me what the reason is. Yeah, that

2179
01:57:09,760 --> 01:57:13,520
Speaker 7: you want to roll back protections on forty four million acres,

2180
01:57:14,120 --> 01:57:16,840
Speaker 7: that that would be like the chunk that is actually

2181
01:57:16,920 --> 01:57:17,919
Speaker 7: going to get affected.

2182
01:57:18,080 --> 01:57:21,800
Speaker 1: You're not you mean, you're not buying that. It's just general, no,

2183
01:57:21,880 --> 01:57:22,280
Speaker 1: a thing.

2184
01:57:23,120 --> 01:57:25,240
Speaker 7: Like, just tell me the thing so we can talk

2185
01:57:25,280 --> 01:57:25,840
Speaker 7: about the thing.

2186
01:57:26,200 --> 01:57:29,080
Speaker 1: Right Earlier we talk about the debate, like the buffalo thing,

2187
01:57:29,200 --> 01:57:33,160
Speaker 1: and there's all these red herrings, brucellosis whatever. In the

2188
01:57:33,320 --> 01:57:35,680
Speaker 1: end you're like, oh, I get it. This is about

2189
01:57:36,520 --> 01:57:40,520
Speaker 1: who's what animals eat? What grass? It's about grass, Yeah,

2190
01:57:40,640 --> 01:57:43,480
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And with the with the

2191
01:57:43,840 --> 01:57:48,240
Speaker 1: l it was about like, this is about increasing new

2192
01:57:48,360 --> 01:57:50,280
Speaker 1: lands for developers to develop.

2193
01:57:50,160 --> 01:57:54,200
Speaker 3: Right, and decreasing the federal state and trying to achieve

2194
01:57:55,720 --> 01:57:59,040
Speaker 3: for their goal of reducing the federal budget deficit.

2195
01:57:59,680 --> 01:58:03,560
Speaker 1: That thread hearing it might it might be one thing

2196
01:58:03,960 --> 01:58:04,320
Speaker 1: one thing.

2197
01:58:04,520 --> 01:58:06,600
Speaker 3: Well, either way, it's definitely out in affordable housing. We

2198
01:58:06,600 --> 01:58:08,480
Speaker 3: can agree in that for housing.

2199
01:58:08,560 --> 01:58:10,000
Speaker 1: I don't think they're worry about the debt. There's a

2200
01:58:10,040 --> 01:58:12,240
Speaker 1: lot better ways to figure out the debt totally.

2201
01:58:12,360 --> 01:58:14,920
Speaker 7: But on this road list deal, I've you know, I

2202
01:58:15,000 --> 01:58:19,160
Speaker 7: have a good, good idea. Come upper.

2203
01:58:20,000 --> 01:58:20,120
Speaker 1: Uh.

2204
01:58:20,840 --> 01:58:24,760
Speaker 7: And I was like, well, why don't we all these

2205
01:58:24,800 --> 01:58:27,280
Speaker 7: groups that have resources, why don't we spend some time

2206
01:58:28,280 --> 01:58:34,320
Speaker 7: get the list of the green groups that sue the

2207
01:58:34,480 --> 01:58:39,400
Speaker 7: most on some of these mitigation efforts that are that

2208
01:58:39,560 --> 01:58:44,360
Speaker 7: are technically included in the wording of the roadless rule, right,

2209
01:58:45,560 --> 01:58:51,200
Speaker 7: and we at least get them to a table where

2210
01:58:51,240 --> 01:58:53,560
Speaker 7: we can have a discussion on what they're going to

2211
01:58:53,600 --> 01:58:54,560
Speaker 7: sue on and what they're not.

2212
01:58:56,040 --> 01:58:56,200
Speaker 1: Right.

2213
01:58:56,320 --> 01:58:58,240
Speaker 7: And then we're going to have this letter and this

2214
01:58:58,360 --> 01:59:02,680
Speaker 7: coalition that says, hey, all these including these ones that

2215
01:59:02,760 --> 01:59:06,080
Speaker 7: are screwing everything up for everybody because they just sue

2216
01:59:06,120 --> 01:59:07,760
Speaker 7: all the time. They just try to grind things to

2217
01:59:07,800 --> 01:59:13,320
Speaker 7: a halt. Say this is our line. If you guys

2218
01:59:13,400 --> 01:59:16,400
Speaker 7: outline where you need the work done, we will not

2219
01:59:16,520 --> 01:59:20,160
Speaker 7: sue on this. And if they don't, we'll just make

2220
01:59:20,960 --> 01:59:24,200
Speaker 7: this big, huge coalition out here say there is no

2221
01:59:24,720 --> 01:59:28,080
Speaker 7: working with these groups, and we'll make it as public

2222
01:59:28,120 --> 01:59:30,840
Speaker 7: as possible. We'll make them prize and that that'll be

2223
01:59:30,920 --> 01:59:34,000
Speaker 7: the tactic here, right, And the response is like, man,

2224
01:59:34,240 --> 01:59:38,920
Speaker 7: it's a great idea, ideas.

2225
01:59:38,960 --> 01:59:39,520
Speaker 2: We can't do it.

2226
01:59:40,800 --> 01:59:42,680
Speaker 7: And they're like are you I mean, are you going

2227
01:59:42,760 --> 01:59:45,000
Speaker 7: to go to these law firms and be like, uh,

2228
01:59:46,440 --> 01:59:50,240
Speaker 7: your business is going to be And they're gonna be like, Hey,

2229
01:59:50,280 --> 01:59:50,920
Speaker 7: that's a good idea.

2230
01:59:51,080 --> 01:59:52,800
Speaker 1: Go to those law firms, be like youre familiar with

2231
01:59:52,840 --> 01:59:57,160
Speaker 1: the whole like doge complex, that's what you're gonna have

2232
01:59:57,160 --> 01:59:59,080
Speaker 1: to apply something different because work's drying up.

2233
02:00:00,040 --> 02:00:01,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not going to say yes to that.

2234
02:00:01,480 --> 02:00:08,360
Speaker 1: Right. When did Nature is non Partisan get founded? April

2235
02:00:08,640 --> 02:00:13,520
Speaker 1: twenty five? April twenty twenty five, layout for me, like,

2236
02:00:15,040 --> 02:00:16,880
Speaker 1: how do you think? How do you approach things? Do

2237
02:00:16,920 --> 02:00:19,760
Speaker 1: you approach things like quarters in your mind? Years in

2238
02:00:19,840 --> 02:00:21,440
Speaker 1: your mind, ten years in your mind?

2239
02:00:21,640 --> 02:00:23,640
Speaker 2: Quarters? Because the world changes every quarter?

2240
02:00:23,840 --> 02:00:26,080
Speaker 1: Right, a couple of quarters? What's come? Like? What? Like?

2241
02:00:27,080 --> 02:00:29,440
Speaker 3: We're going to launch a national narrative shifting campaign with

2242
02:00:29,560 --> 02:00:32,040
Speaker 3: a lot of the coalition partners that we've been working with,

2243
02:00:32,160 --> 02:00:33,640
Speaker 3: including a lot of the groups that you work with,

2244
02:00:33,960 --> 02:00:36,160
Speaker 3: you know, the trcps of the world. We're gonna include

2245
02:00:36,200 --> 02:00:38,840
Speaker 3: everybody who's in this broad coalition in a campaign called

2246
02:00:38,960 --> 02:00:41,360
Speaker 3: United by Nature. We're gonna have concerts, We're gonna have

2247
02:00:41,360 --> 02:00:43,360
Speaker 3: community events, We're gonna have calls to action, We're gonna

2248
02:00:43,360 --> 02:00:46,160
Speaker 3: have national ad campaigns. We're going to try to make

2249
02:00:46,240 --> 02:00:50,720
Speaker 3: this United by Nature the calling card for support the troops. Right,

2250
02:00:50,760 --> 02:00:52,840
Speaker 3: we are united by nature, whether that nature is your

2251
02:00:52,960 --> 02:00:55,600
Speaker 3: salt lake or it's your you know, Everglades, or it's

2252
02:00:55,640 --> 02:00:57,879
Speaker 3: your you know, beartooth mountains.

2253
02:00:57,960 --> 02:00:58,080
Speaker 1: Right.

2254
02:00:58,200 --> 02:01:01,120
Speaker 3: So it's it's trying to create that national identity. We're

2255
02:01:01,120 --> 02:01:03,040
Speaker 3: going to launch it in the in the next quarter.

2256
02:01:03,120 --> 02:01:05,680
Speaker 3: We're also going to launch it bipartisan caucus in the

2257
02:01:05,800 --> 02:01:10,760
Speaker 3: Senate focused on conservation and try to create the space

2258
02:01:11,200 --> 02:01:12,080
Speaker 3: for that to get done.

2259
02:01:12,200 --> 02:01:13,920
Speaker 1: Is it gonna be called the level Headed Caucus?

2260
02:01:14,920 --> 02:01:16,560
Speaker 2: The level Headed cauca? What was the notion?

2261
02:01:17,000 --> 02:01:19,880
Speaker 3: What was your secondary slogan for you don't show up

2262
02:01:19,880 --> 02:01:20,720
Speaker 3: America Caucus?

2263
02:01:21,520 --> 02:01:22,160
Speaker 2: I'll ask.

2264
02:01:24,480 --> 02:01:27,680
Speaker 3: That's great, and then you know, we're really going to

2265
02:01:27,720 --> 02:01:31,040
Speaker 3: focus on tell people to Caucus caucus is like a

2266
02:01:31,120 --> 02:01:34,880
Speaker 3: little little family of senators that want to do the

2267
02:01:34,960 --> 02:01:38,760
Speaker 3: same action on the same topic. And so there are

2268
02:01:39,000 --> 02:01:41,240
Speaker 3: there's like the Congressional Sportsman's Caucus, which is a great

2269
02:01:41,280 --> 02:01:45,000
Speaker 3: group focus on you know, sportsmen's issues and trying to

2270
02:01:45,080 --> 02:01:47,880
Speaker 3: build support in the Senate just on those issues.

2271
02:01:47,960 --> 02:01:50,200
Speaker 7: So we saw the public Lands Caucus in the House.

2272
02:01:50,400 --> 02:01:52,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and so it'll be very complimentary to that

2273
02:01:52,720 --> 02:01:55,560
Speaker 3: in the Senate, but on more than just public lands.

2274
02:01:55,600 --> 02:01:59,240
Speaker 3: It'll be about private land, wildlife, water, and a little

2275
02:01:59,240 --> 02:01:59,920
Speaker 3: bit of a wider.

2276
02:01:59,720 --> 02:02:03,720
Speaker 1: Sweet And you imagine pulling in you imagine this pulling

2277
02:02:03,800 --> 02:02:06,000
Speaker 1: in centrists from both parties.

2278
02:02:05,720 --> 02:02:09,160
Speaker 3: Or we actually want pretty hardcore Republicans and hardcore Democrats.

2279
02:02:09,200 --> 02:02:10,880
Speaker 3: But it's gonna be one for one membership. So for

2280
02:02:10,920 --> 02:02:12,600
Speaker 3: every Republican, we get a Democrat.

2281
02:02:12,800 --> 02:02:13,920
Speaker 1: Is that normal for a caucus?

2282
02:02:14,240 --> 02:02:15,920
Speaker 2: No, there are a few that are modeled that way,

2283
02:02:16,440 --> 02:02:17,120
Speaker 2: but very rare.

2284
02:02:17,280 --> 02:02:18,800
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because yeah, obviously.

2285
02:02:19,120 --> 02:02:24,520
Speaker 3: And our organization is structured part yeah, yeah, our organization

2286
02:02:24,680 --> 02:02:26,560
Speaker 3: is structured that way too. We have half our staff

2287
02:02:26,600 --> 02:02:29,360
Speaker 3: is liberal, half its conservative. Half our boards liberal half

2288
02:02:29,560 --> 02:02:32,200
Speaker 3: half its conservative. And we're intentional for everybody that we add,

2289
02:02:32,800 --> 02:02:36,800
Speaker 3: we are making do you have non binary everyone's got

2290
02:02:36,880 --> 02:02:42,800
Speaker 3: a leaning somewhere like put me down for both.

2291
02:02:44,600 --> 02:02:44,800
Speaker 6: We do.

2292
02:02:45,000 --> 02:02:48,160
Speaker 2: Actually, if you look at it from the box, you

2293
02:02:48,280 --> 02:02:51,080
Speaker 2: have to figure it out. No, we we we have

2294
02:02:51,320 --> 02:02:51,840
Speaker 2: out our board.

2295
02:02:51,840 --> 02:02:53,280
Speaker 3: We have got a few people who I actually have

2296
02:02:53,360 --> 02:02:57,080
Speaker 3: no idea, but if there's a pretty active conservative person,

2297
02:02:57,120 --> 02:03:00,160
Speaker 3: we're definitely gonna have an active understood so that that's

2298
02:03:00,160 --> 02:03:01,520
Speaker 3: the vision that we see, because when you have it

2299
02:03:01,640 --> 02:03:03,480
Speaker 3: structured that way, and this is why, you know a

2300
02:03:03,520 --> 02:03:06,120
Speaker 3: lot of environmental organizations their staff is one hundred percent

2301
02:03:06,200 --> 02:03:08,120
Speaker 3: liberal or you know other boards one hundredercent liberal, and

2302
02:03:08,240 --> 02:03:09,480
Speaker 3: of course they're going to lean that way, just like

2303
02:03:09,560 --> 02:03:11,760
Speaker 3: if it was the other way. So so we're gonna

2304
02:03:11,800 --> 02:03:15,000
Speaker 3: launch this caucus. We're gonna launch the National Narrative Shifting Campaign,

2305
02:03:15,240 --> 02:03:18,080
Speaker 3: United by Nature. We're probably gonna do a big event

2306
02:03:18,480 --> 02:03:21,880
Speaker 3: at Yellowstone here in the spring to rally people around

2307
02:03:21,920 --> 02:03:25,400
Speaker 3: public lands and bring in like an A list celebrity,

2308
02:03:25,440 --> 02:03:26,960
Speaker 3: a list music. So we're trying to make this a

2309
02:03:27,000 --> 02:03:32,000
Speaker 3: culturally relevant thing. And can you speak, no, just bring

2310
02:03:32,040 --> 02:03:34,000
Speaker 3: my kids want to hang out? What if they want

2311
02:03:34,000 --> 02:03:35,840
Speaker 3: to watch their dad on stage, they won't.

2312
02:03:38,240 --> 02:03:48,240
Speaker 2: What if your wife wants to Yeah, we wanted to go, dad,

2313
02:03:48,240 --> 02:03:49,680
Speaker 2: but we're actually gonna stay home this week.

2314
02:03:50,440 --> 02:03:53,520
Speaker 7: We heard this speech at dinner, part of it.

2315
02:03:54,640 --> 02:03:56,320
Speaker 3: But but yeah, that's kind of what the next few

2316
02:03:56,320 --> 02:04:00,480
Speaker 3: months look like. And you know, we're we're really excited

2317
02:04:00,520 --> 02:04:03,240
Speaker 3: because we're seeing, especially in the wake of just like

2318
02:04:03,280 --> 02:04:06,640
Speaker 3: the political division, people are wanting something positive in politics

2319
02:04:06,720 --> 02:04:11,280
Speaker 3: right now. And if there's one issue that could help

2320
02:04:11,360 --> 02:04:15,320
Speaker 3: democracy kind of move forward and also bring our priorities

2321
02:04:15,320 --> 02:04:17,680
Speaker 3: to the table, the environment's probably the best one in

2322
02:04:17,800 --> 02:04:21,560
Speaker 3: my opinion. So we're seeing a lot of natural support,

2323
02:04:22,320 --> 02:04:25,440
Speaker 3: and you know, people from across the spectrum. I mean,

2324
02:04:26,200 --> 02:04:30,120
Speaker 3: we have drag queens and militant you know, militant activists

2325
02:04:30,160 --> 02:04:32,240
Speaker 3: who are all believing in this same model. And it's

2326
02:04:32,400 --> 02:04:35,200
Speaker 3: it's it's really kind of incredible what people are looking

2327
02:04:35,280 --> 02:04:36,120
Speaker 3: for on this right now.

2328
02:04:36,720 --> 02:04:41,919
Speaker 1: How will you decide going forward? How will you decide

2329
02:04:42,200 --> 02:04:49,520
Speaker 1: Like where with the public land sell off, there's like

2330
02:04:49,560 --> 02:04:54,000
Speaker 1: a specific thing. Yeah, there's a known party that's pushing it.

2331
02:04:54,160 --> 02:04:55,960
Speaker 1: There's a no, not not even party, there's a known

2332
02:04:56,000 --> 02:04:58,800
Speaker 1: individual who's pushing it, yep, Right, and so you got

2333
02:04:58,920 --> 02:05:01,840
Speaker 1: to like create friction, Yeah, like you're going to You're like,

2334
02:05:02,080 --> 02:05:04,320
Speaker 1: whatever you do, however positive you keep it, you will

2335
02:05:04,360 --> 02:05:09,080
Speaker 1: create friction. Right. How how are you deciding on what

2336
02:05:09,280 --> 02:05:12,200
Speaker 1: issues where you're like, I'm going to create friction on

2337
02:05:12,280 --> 02:05:14,520
Speaker 1: this one. I'm going to create friction on this one.

2338
02:05:14,560 --> 02:05:18,840
Speaker 1: I mean specific bills, right, specific measures do I mean like,

2339
02:05:19,360 --> 02:05:22,400
Speaker 1: is it just your moral compass? Like, like what goes

2340
02:05:22,480 --> 02:05:24,880
Speaker 1: into going like this is going to get ugly?

2341
02:05:25,720 --> 02:05:28,200
Speaker 3: I think it's when we know that the vast majority

2342
02:05:28,280 --> 02:05:30,960
Speaker 3: that there's a winning coalition that's willing to be like

2343
02:05:32,160 --> 02:05:36,040
Speaker 3: active on something. Because we mostly want to be four things.

2344
02:05:36,240 --> 02:05:37,720
Speaker 3: So what I mean by that is like, we don't

2345
02:05:37,720 --> 02:05:39,960
Speaker 3: want to always be the group that's standing against whatever

2346
02:05:40,080 --> 02:05:42,120
Speaker 3: is bad. That's what a lot of environmental groups do.

2347
02:05:42,440 --> 02:05:44,720
Speaker 3: We want to show that there is a political constituency

2348
02:05:45,360 --> 02:05:48,640
Speaker 3: to put forward funding for national parks, to put forward

2349
02:05:48,680 --> 02:05:51,600
Speaker 3: funding for wildlife conservation, right, like, like show that there's

2350
02:05:51,600 --> 02:05:54,440
Speaker 3: an appetite for that in a positive way. Because I'm

2351
02:05:54,480 --> 02:05:56,840
Speaker 3: so sick of like politicians only being afraid of people

2352
02:05:56,920 --> 02:05:58,640
Speaker 3: instead of like being like, oh, I'm doing this because

2353
02:05:58,640 --> 02:06:01,360
Speaker 3: people actually want me to do it. So but when

2354
02:06:01,440 --> 02:06:04,160
Speaker 3: there's this example, like the public land sell off, where

2355
02:06:04,480 --> 02:06:06,400
Speaker 3: we have to take a stance against it, we are

2356
02:06:06,480 --> 02:06:09,080
Speaker 3: going to be very intentional about picking and choosing. I've

2357
02:06:09,080 --> 02:06:11,440
Speaker 3: already gotten so much shit for not taking a stance

2358
02:06:11,480 --> 02:06:14,800
Speaker 3: against absolutely everything that's been happening over the last eight months.

2359
02:06:15,000 --> 02:06:18,080
Speaker 3: And I'm like, I can't die on every hill, right,

2360
02:06:18,160 --> 02:06:20,240
Speaker 3: and our organization can't die on every hill, and no

2361
02:06:20,440 --> 02:06:23,760
Speaker 3: organization can die on every hill. But if there's an

2362
02:06:24,440 --> 02:06:28,400
Speaker 3: overwhelming winning coalition of Americans where the politicians are so

2363
02:06:28,600 --> 02:06:30,680
Speaker 3: out of touch with America like they were on the

2364
02:06:30,720 --> 02:06:33,040
Speaker 3: public land sell off, we're going to show them that

2365
02:06:33,120 --> 02:06:36,600
Speaker 3: they're out of touch. And so it will depend on really,

2366
02:06:36,840 --> 02:06:39,560
Speaker 3: where's the American populace at, where's the winning coalition at?

2367
02:06:39,920 --> 02:06:42,880
Speaker 3: And can we actually mobilize them, because if we can't,

2368
02:06:42,920 --> 02:06:45,760
Speaker 3: then we're trying to stick a square peg into a

2369
02:06:45,800 --> 02:06:48,480
Speaker 3: round hole, and a lot of times that's what happens

2370
02:06:48,560 --> 02:06:50,840
Speaker 3: and it doesn't actually do anything. So if we're going

2371
02:06:50,920 --> 02:06:52,840
Speaker 3: to really lean in and be against something, we better

2372
02:06:53,000 --> 02:06:55,240
Speaker 3: be damn sure that it's going to be impactful before

2373
02:06:55,280 --> 02:06:55,520
Speaker 3: we do it.

2374
02:06:55,640 --> 02:07:00,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's I like that appro Yeah, I'm at

2375
02:07:00,920 --> 02:07:02,680
Speaker 1: a loss for words. I love that approach. I like

2376
02:07:02,760 --> 02:07:05,120
Speaker 1: that approach because I think another way that groups would

2377
02:07:05,160 --> 02:07:08,360
Speaker 1: look and they'll say this is we're gonna lose bad,

2378
02:07:09,040 --> 02:07:11,160
Speaker 1: but this is gonna be good for fundraisings, and this

2379
02:07:11,280 --> 02:07:15,000
Speaker 1: is gonna be good for press. If Peta says, hey,

2380
02:07:15,040 --> 02:07:16,640
Speaker 1: we're gonna have it be that you don't say a

2381
02:07:16,680 --> 02:07:21,560
Speaker 1: whole hog anymore. You know, they're like, we're probably gonna lose.

2382
02:07:22,160 --> 02:07:24,800
Speaker 1: People are still gonna say a whole hog, but it's

2383
02:07:24,840 --> 02:07:27,960
Speaker 1: gonna get a lot of media, exactly. But you know,

2384
02:07:28,160 --> 02:07:29,240
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna win this one.

2385
02:07:30,920 --> 02:07:31,760
Speaker 2: And that's exactly.

2386
02:07:31,800 --> 02:07:34,160
Speaker 3: I mean what I'm at the point where it's like,

2387
02:07:34,720 --> 02:07:36,600
Speaker 3: I care about the outcomes and if that, if that

2388
02:07:36,680 --> 02:07:39,440
Speaker 3: comes at the cost of fund fundraising, I'm willing to

2389
02:07:39,520 --> 02:07:41,120
Speaker 3: take that. If it comes at the cost of media,

2390
02:07:41,400 --> 02:07:43,880
Speaker 3: that's fine. If it comes at the cost of people

2391
02:07:43,960 --> 02:07:45,800
Speaker 3: thinking that I have some ulterior motive because I'm not

2392
02:07:45,840 --> 02:07:48,000
Speaker 3: taking a stance on everything because I think that I'm

2393
02:07:48,080 --> 02:07:50,040
Speaker 3: like trying to shy away from every issue, then that's

2394
02:07:50,080 --> 02:07:52,080
Speaker 3: fine too. But I think people have gotten so used

2395
02:07:52,120 --> 02:07:54,879
Speaker 3: to like, oh, you're not taking a stance on absolutely

2396
02:07:54,880 --> 02:07:57,320
Speaker 3: everything that's bad, therefore you must have some ulterior motive.

2397
02:07:57,320 --> 02:07:59,240
Speaker 3: It's like, no, it's actually the opposite, right, Like I

2398
02:07:59,400 --> 02:08:03,760
Speaker 3: could raise so much money opposing everything that Donald Trump does.

2399
02:08:04,000 --> 02:08:05,920
Speaker 3: I could raise so much money off of that, and

2400
02:08:06,040 --> 02:08:07,920
Speaker 3: if I wanted to, I would do it. Or if

2401
02:08:07,920 --> 02:08:09,920
Speaker 3: I wanted to defend everything he was doing, I could

2402
02:08:09,920 --> 02:08:11,960
Speaker 3: also raise a lot of money off of that. But

2403
02:08:12,480 --> 02:08:15,240
Speaker 3: I think over time people's demand is going to be

2404
02:08:15,360 --> 02:08:17,800
Speaker 3: for trying to actually create good outcomes. At least that's

2405
02:08:17,840 --> 02:08:20,000
Speaker 3: my optimistic view of the world, that people will actually

2406
02:08:20,080 --> 02:08:22,760
Speaker 3: want that, and over time people will see, man, this

2407
02:08:23,000 --> 02:08:26,280
Speaker 3: is if you want to take a legitimate stance on

2408
02:08:26,400 --> 02:08:28,200
Speaker 3: something that will actually move the needle, this is the

2409
02:08:28,320 --> 02:08:29,240
Speaker 3: organization to work with.

2410
02:08:29,480 --> 02:08:30,000
Speaker 2: That's the goal.

2411
02:08:30,160 --> 02:08:32,760
Speaker 1: You know what good analogy could be for you, Like,

2412
02:08:32,840 --> 02:08:37,040
Speaker 1: think about how the military would look at battles. They're

2413
02:08:37,080 --> 02:08:39,800
Speaker 1: not like, all the guys are gonna diem, but think

2414
02:08:39,800 --> 02:08:42,080
Speaker 1: about what this is gonna mean from a publicity stamp,

2415
02:08:42,480 --> 02:08:45,240
Speaker 1: right right. They're kind of like, no, no, no, I

2416
02:08:45,280 --> 02:08:47,880
Speaker 1: think we should go on Wednesday night because we're gonna

2417
02:08:47,880 --> 02:08:52,120
Speaker 1: win on Wednesday night, are you guys? Just you guys

2418
02:08:52,160 --> 02:08:53,600
Speaker 1: have we're gonna go.

2419
02:08:54,320 --> 02:08:57,840
Speaker 7: We're gonna go on too much time together, Steve. Steve

2420
02:08:57,880 --> 02:08:59,560
Speaker 7: and I were playing phone tag all day and I

2421
02:08:59,640 --> 02:09:03,160
Speaker 7: happened to be on a Gettysburg tour and we finally connected.

2422
02:09:04,400 --> 02:09:08,320
Speaker 7: While I'm sitting there looking at at Pickett's charge from

2423
02:09:08,400 --> 02:09:11,880
Speaker 7: the viewpoint of the Union lines and seems like, well,

2424
02:09:11,920 --> 02:09:14,080
Speaker 7: what do you think I'm like, this is so stupid.

2425
02:09:15,800 --> 02:09:19,480
Speaker 7: I'm like, you cannot tell me, you cannot, Like, I'm

2426
02:09:19,600 --> 02:09:24,240
Speaker 7: at odds with our historical tour guide right now because

2427
02:09:24,240 --> 02:09:25,560
Speaker 7: I'm like, yeah, I'm not buying this.

2428
02:09:26,560 --> 02:09:30,040
Speaker 1: This is ego driven something being like can I get

2429
02:09:30,080 --> 02:09:37,640
Speaker 1: a quick word? Just kind of looking down, looking around here?

2430
02:09:37,880 --> 02:09:40,840
Speaker 3: And that is the perfect analogy, though, That is the

2431
02:09:40,880 --> 02:09:44,320
Speaker 3: perfect analogy. Yeah, and I think the conservation movement could

2432
02:09:44,320 --> 02:09:47,080
Speaker 3: really use that. But also, like there to your point earlier,

2433
02:09:47,560 --> 02:09:50,360
Speaker 3: there are so many incredible groups out there in the

2434
02:09:50,520 --> 02:09:52,200
Speaker 3: hunting you know, in the hook and bult crowd, but

2435
02:09:52,280 --> 02:09:55,360
Speaker 3: also in the conservation crowd, but they're not trying to

2436
02:09:55,400 --> 02:09:57,280
Speaker 3: do what I'm trying to do, and so we can

2437
02:09:57,320 --> 02:09:59,960
Speaker 3: work really well together to get things done because they

2438
02:10:00,000 --> 02:10:02,000
Speaker 3: they do they do have science behind them, and they

2439
02:10:02,040 --> 02:10:04,960
Speaker 3: do have resources, they do have research, they do have

2440
02:10:05,200 --> 02:10:07,240
Speaker 3: some grassroots right, and they have a brand, and they

2441
02:10:07,320 --> 02:10:10,600
Speaker 3: have really good ideas. But we need to facilitate the

2442
02:10:10,640 --> 02:10:14,280
Speaker 3: space for those ideas and create the national identity around

2443
02:10:14,320 --> 02:10:17,680
Speaker 3: those ideas. And so you know, I think for most

2444
02:10:17,720 --> 02:10:20,720
Speaker 3: of America, like we hope to be the national movement,

2445
02:10:20,760 --> 02:10:23,080
Speaker 3: but then we want to help accelerate the priorities of

2446
02:10:23,080 --> 02:10:24,680
Speaker 3: all these other great groups that are out there that

2447
02:10:24,800 --> 02:10:28,400
Speaker 3: just haven't had the space. Like TRCP has so many

2448
02:10:28,440 --> 02:10:31,280
Speaker 3: great policy ideas. All these groups have so many great

2449
02:10:31,280 --> 02:10:34,240
Speaker 3: policy ideas, but if the political space isn't there to

2450
02:10:34,360 --> 02:10:38,600
Speaker 3: move them, then they're just ideas right and the roadless

2451
02:10:38,680 --> 02:10:42,120
Speaker 3: rule or anything that we're against, you know, being rescinded,

2452
02:10:42,280 --> 02:10:46,040
Speaker 3: Like we might be right about that, but if they

2453
02:10:46,240 --> 02:10:48,520
Speaker 3: still decide to go forward with it because Americans didn't

2454
02:10:48,520 --> 02:10:52,040
Speaker 3: speak up enough about it, then then it doesn't.

2455
02:10:51,840 --> 02:10:52,720
Speaker 2: Matter how right we were.

2456
02:10:53,000 --> 02:10:56,640
Speaker 1: So that I'm a big TRCP supporter. Cal does allow

2457
02:10:56,680 --> 02:11:00,520
Speaker 1: to work with BHA, but I think that I'm sure

2458
02:11:00,560 --> 02:11:06,000
Speaker 1: there are people that fall into a trap of being competitive. Yes,

2459
02:11:07,480 --> 02:11:09,760
Speaker 1: but I would say, like speaking for the people at

2460
02:11:09,800 --> 02:11:11,760
Speaker 1: this table, I would say, like we'll take the wins.

2461
02:11:11,880 --> 02:11:14,720
Speaker 1: We can get them, yep, and we just need wins. Yeah,

2462
02:11:15,000 --> 02:11:17,600
Speaker 1: Like you know, I love to see the groups I

2463
02:11:17,640 --> 02:11:19,480
Speaker 1: love and the people I love thrive and do well.

2464
02:11:19,560 --> 02:11:24,840
Speaker 1: But I'm not I'd rather see environmental wins than organization wins.

2465
02:11:24,920 --> 02:11:25,480
Speaker 2: I agree with that.

2466
02:11:25,680 --> 02:11:29,520
Speaker 3: No, And honestly, I mean, if nature is not God speed,

2467
02:11:30,120 --> 02:11:34,240
Speaker 3: thank you God. And you know, it really doesn't matter

2468
02:11:34,440 --> 02:11:36,440
Speaker 3: who gets the credit. We just need good conservation wins.

2469
02:11:36,520 --> 02:11:38,560
Speaker 3: Like people ask me all the time, why am I

2470
02:11:38,600 --> 02:11:41,560
Speaker 3: doing this? And I think you'll find out in twenty

2471
02:11:41,640 --> 02:11:43,920
Speaker 3: years as we look back, forty years, as we look back,

2472
02:11:44,200 --> 02:11:46,960
Speaker 3: I just care about conservation wins. And if Nature's non

2473
02:11:47,000 --> 02:11:49,840
Speaker 3: partisans isn't needed, then that's then that's great. But if

2474
02:11:49,840 --> 02:11:53,440
Speaker 3: it's also the most important culturally relevant organization, that's great too.

2475
02:11:53,840 --> 02:11:56,000
Speaker 3: But like there is no motive other than getting wins

2476
02:11:56,040 --> 02:11:58,240
Speaker 3: on the board. So but I like that approach because

2477
02:11:58,280 --> 02:12:00,520
Speaker 3: it also means that we are being so collaborative with

2478
02:12:00,520 --> 02:12:02,440
Speaker 3: all these other groups that largely have seen each other

2479
02:12:02,560 --> 02:12:06,080
Speaker 3: as like competitive enemies in a lot of ways, but

2480
02:12:06,160 --> 02:12:07,280
Speaker 3: they could be moving together.

2481
02:12:07,840 --> 02:12:09,880
Speaker 2: And I do believe that it's more powerful if they do.

2482
02:12:10,560 --> 02:12:14,200
Speaker 3: And I know that's kind of breaking the mold of

2483
02:12:14,360 --> 02:12:16,600
Speaker 3: like the nonprofit model, it's breaking the mold of like

2484
02:12:16,640 --> 02:12:19,200
Speaker 3: the political model. People want to be against each other

2485
02:12:19,360 --> 02:12:23,040
Speaker 3: to find competition. But like, this to me, is bigger

2486
02:12:23,080 --> 02:12:25,200
Speaker 3: than that. It's bigger than politics. It's bigger than who

2487
02:12:25,200 --> 02:12:27,400
Speaker 3: has the money. It's bigger than who gets the money.

2488
02:12:27,440 --> 02:12:30,760
Speaker 3: It's bigger than who gets the win. It's who and

2489
02:12:30,960 --> 02:12:34,000
Speaker 3: how did we get the best outcomes for conservation because

2490
02:12:34,000 --> 02:12:37,040
Speaker 3: we need like a twenty first century infusion of conservation

2491
02:12:37,200 --> 02:12:40,480
Speaker 3: progress like Teddy Roosevelt created. We need to have that

2492
02:12:40,640 --> 02:12:43,360
Speaker 3: legacy recreated in this country, and we're not going to

2493
02:12:43,440 --> 02:12:45,920
Speaker 3: do it with the typical political bullshit that we've been

2494
02:12:46,000 --> 02:12:47,200
Speaker 3: dealing with over the last few years.

2495
02:12:49,200 --> 02:12:50,840
Speaker 1: I appreciate it taking so much time to talk.

2496
02:12:50,960 --> 02:12:52,760
Speaker 3: Man, this is really fun. I even got to eat

2497
02:12:52,800 --> 02:12:55,000
Speaker 3: jerky on air. Get to look my chops a little

2498
02:12:55,000 --> 02:12:56,520
Speaker 3: bit frothee.

2499
02:12:58,200 --> 02:12:59,160
Speaker 2: Should we all do that and.

2500
02:12:59,240 --> 02:13:02,760
Speaker 1: Just go, oh, Phil, there's some jerky where you feel

2501
02:13:02,760 --> 02:13:04,360
Speaker 1: like they should have put one of those old flossers

2502
02:13:04,400 --> 02:13:06,680
Speaker 1: in the bag with it. But that doesn't give any problem.

2503
02:13:07,240 --> 02:13:14,320
Speaker 1: I mean, like threads when we when I was a kid,

2504
02:13:14,480 --> 02:13:16,640
Speaker 1: when we made we made jerky, my dad would just

2505
02:13:16,800 --> 02:13:19,080
Speaker 1: like take the shank and slice it thin, you know.

2506
02:13:19,280 --> 02:13:22,040
Speaker 1: I remember, like every piece of jerk you ate, you'd

2507
02:13:22,120 --> 02:13:25,440
Speaker 1: have like a cut. You'd have a cut, and after

2508
02:13:25,560 --> 02:13:28,400
Speaker 1: an hour jerky eat and you take this white ball

2509
02:13:29,880 --> 02:13:33,360
Speaker 1: it's like a piece of chewing gum sinow and you'd

2510
02:13:33,400 --> 02:13:34,840
Speaker 1: eventually take that and flick it.

2511
02:13:37,080 --> 02:13:38,480
Speaker 2: It's full of little jerky pieces.

2512
02:13:41,120 --> 02:13:43,240
Speaker 1: You just be like like, yeah, it's probably and you

2513
02:13:43,320 --> 02:13:47,280
Speaker 1: open the window and off into the side of the road.

2514
02:13:48,600 --> 02:13:52,040
Speaker 2: This does not that I don't need that, no connective.

2515
02:13:51,720 --> 02:13:55,400
Speaker 1: Tissue, there's no cut, there's no cut to choose, but.

2516
02:13:55,560 --> 02:13:57,720
Speaker 3: I do want to again, you guys have a lot

2517
02:13:57,800 --> 02:14:02,080
Speaker 3: of incredible influence and pact that you've made, both of you,

2518
02:14:02,520 --> 02:14:06,560
Speaker 3: specifically on getting people rallied around these ideas across party lines.

2519
02:14:06,800 --> 02:14:09,400
Speaker 3: So you're living the Nature's non partisan mantra every single day.

2520
02:14:09,440 --> 02:14:11,720
Speaker 3: And I look up to you guys a lot, and

2521
02:14:12,000 --> 02:14:14,840
Speaker 3: and just the way that you've LED's.

2522
02:14:13,960 --> 02:14:16,000
Speaker 1: Cal's tenacious man. You are.

2523
02:14:16,560 --> 02:14:20,760
Speaker 7: Well, it helps when you're right, that's the good thing.

2524
02:14:23,000 --> 02:14:23,440
Speaker 1: In the morning.

2525
02:14:23,520 --> 02:14:28,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, when it's when it's authentic, you fight harder, right,

2526
02:14:28,480 --> 02:14:30,320
Speaker 3: and and you can tell that you mean it, and

2527
02:14:30,400 --> 02:14:32,000
Speaker 3: you can tell you mean it, and hopefully you can

2528
02:14:32,040 --> 02:14:33,320
Speaker 3: tell that I mean it, And that just makes it

2529
02:14:33,400 --> 02:14:35,400
Speaker 3: easier because you wake up every day and you actually

2530
02:14:35,400 --> 02:14:37,240
Speaker 3: want to do it and you're not trying to put

2531
02:14:37,280 --> 02:14:39,040
Speaker 3: someone in a box. Because the thing is the thing

2532
02:14:39,080 --> 02:14:41,960
Speaker 3: that we have against these these screw ups in politics

2533
02:14:42,000 --> 02:14:44,280
Speaker 3: today is that they are putting themselves in boxes that

2534
02:14:44,320 --> 02:14:47,120
Speaker 3: they don't even think are authentically real. And at some point,

2535
02:14:47,280 --> 02:14:49,600
Speaker 3: this authenticity of fighting for what we actually believe in

2536
02:14:49,680 --> 02:14:52,240
Speaker 3: will win because we actually have the passion and we

2537
02:14:52,320 --> 02:14:54,440
Speaker 3: actually care, and that will win.

2538
02:14:54,760 --> 02:14:59,080
Speaker 7: I keep reminding people, I'm like, we are right. And

2539
02:14:59,200 --> 02:15:02,320
Speaker 7: if you don't think you are, bring this, bring your

2540
02:15:02,480 --> 02:15:06,200
Speaker 7: viewpoint of public lands and the value of them to

2541
02:15:06,320 --> 02:15:08,520
Speaker 7: somebody who doesn't have that viewpoint. And you can just

2542
02:15:08,640 --> 02:15:12,280
Speaker 7: watch the mental gymnastics happen exactly and how they have

2543
02:15:12,360 --> 02:15:16,560
Speaker 7: to like try to re center themselves on their argument.

2544
02:15:16,760 --> 02:15:17,840
Speaker 1: They're like, well have you.

2545
02:15:19,640 --> 02:15:21,440
Speaker 7: It's like, yeah, yeah, we got it.

2546
02:15:23,360 --> 02:15:25,240
Speaker 1: But I feel like you're not feeling.

2547
02:15:25,000 --> 02:15:31,040
Speaker 2: That that's not an authentic view you have, right, right,

2548
02:15:31,280 --> 02:15:38,240
Speaker 2: They're like, well, I've never been but right, that's true.

2549
02:15:38,280 --> 02:15:40,600
Speaker 3: I think some of those guys we could really they

2550
02:15:40,680 --> 02:15:43,040
Speaker 3: look like they've never been in the outdoors before, and

2551
02:15:43,200 --> 02:15:44,840
Speaker 3: they look like, you know, maybe we could help them.

2552
02:15:45,680 --> 02:15:47,600
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's something we should think about at some point.

2553
02:15:48,360 --> 02:15:51,240
Speaker 3: Little sun, a little little mountain, little tree, little dirt,

2554
02:15:51,400 --> 02:15:51,920
Speaker 3: little dirt.

2555
02:15:52,040 --> 02:15:54,160
Speaker 6: Not to sidetrack it, but summer.

2556
02:15:54,240 --> 02:15:55,120
Speaker 1: I was going to wrap up.

2557
02:15:56,960 --> 02:15:57,880
Speaker 2: An allergy.

2558
02:15:59,120 --> 02:16:02,920
Speaker 4: Summer and yellowstone. You see all these people pouring through livingstone.

2559
02:16:03,640 --> 02:16:05,520
Speaker 4: They look like they've never spent a day outdoor in

2560
02:16:05,520 --> 02:16:08,120
Speaker 4: their lives, and there's a lot of eye rolling about it.

2561
02:16:08,240 --> 02:16:10,720
Speaker 4: But when I see that, I actually think it's really

2562
02:16:10,840 --> 02:16:15,160
Speaker 4: cool that somebody who lives in Florida or or New

2563
02:16:15,240 --> 02:16:18,000
Speaker 4: York or wherever is like, you know what.

2564
02:16:18,080 --> 02:16:19,520
Speaker 6: We need to do this year? We need to go

2565
02:16:19,720 --> 02:16:23,280
Speaker 6: see Montana and Wyoming because you're a big hearted person.

2566
02:16:23,680 --> 02:16:26,920
Speaker 4: No, I mean the traffic gets old. I don't like

2567
02:16:27,000 --> 02:16:30,200
Speaker 4: waiting for tables at restaurants, but like it's I don't.

2568
02:16:30,040 --> 02:16:33,120
Speaker 7: Want to peel the curtain back too much. But Randall

2569
02:16:33,240 --> 02:16:37,120
Speaker 7: and his wife have both told me that if they

2570
02:16:37,200 --> 02:16:40,720
Speaker 7: ever went on a murder spree, it would it would

2571
02:16:40,720 --> 02:16:44,160
Speaker 7: be to target people who do illegal things in national parks.

2572
02:16:44,200 --> 02:16:45,879
Speaker 2: Okay, that's but that's a different argument.

2573
02:16:46,120 --> 02:16:48,720
Speaker 6: Again, all of my darkest secrets are coming out.

2574
02:16:49,520 --> 02:16:54,119
Speaker 2: No, but those are those are not contradictory, Like, yeah.

2575
02:16:54,000 --> 02:16:55,920
Speaker 4: I think it's I think it's so cool that people

2576
02:16:55,959 --> 02:16:57,880
Speaker 4: are like that. The people in this country are like

2577
02:16:58,080 --> 02:16:59,040
Speaker 4: I have to see this.

2578
02:16:59,320 --> 02:17:01,200
Speaker 2: This is part of my Americans.

2579
02:17:01,240 --> 02:17:03,480
Speaker 4: This is part of being an adult as an American.

2580
02:17:04,360 --> 02:17:06,959
Speaker 4: Is like sharing this with my kids, even if they

2581
02:17:07,040 --> 02:17:10,200
Speaker 4: never come back like another day, or they don't hunt,

2582
02:17:10,280 --> 02:17:13,039
Speaker 4: or they don't fish. They're like, you know what, We're

2583
02:17:13,080 --> 02:17:15,520
Speaker 4: gonna load up the station wagon and go look at

2584
02:17:15,640 --> 02:17:16,360
Speaker 4: rocks and water.

2585
02:17:16,720 --> 02:17:19,560
Speaker 1: No, that's true, Phil. You should take that clip and

2586
02:17:19,720 --> 02:17:23,240
Speaker 1: send that to Venmo and if they'll let Randall back on. Yeah,

2587
02:17:23,280 --> 02:17:23,680
Speaker 1: I'm on it.

2588
02:17:28,240 --> 02:17:32,080
Speaker 7: This guy come on, such a bad guy him.

2589
02:17:32,360 --> 02:17:35,840
Speaker 1: Let him transact, let him buy what he needs to buy,

2590
02:17:36,640 --> 02:17:37,920
Speaker 1: Let him buy what he needs to buy from the

2591
02:17:37,959 --> 02:17:38,480
Speaker 1: state sales.

2592
02:17:38,560 --> 02:17:40,440
Speaker 2: This episode sponsored by then.

2593
02:17:40,360 --> 02:17:47,440
Speaker 1: Mountain man Benji Backer. Nature is nonpartisan. Thanks man, thanks

2594
02:17:47,480 --> 02:17:47,880
Speaker 1: for having me.

2595
02:17:47,959 --> 02:17:49,280
Speaker 2: This is a lot of fun. And come back to

2596
02:17:49,320 --> 02:17:49,640
Speaker 2: come back.

2597
02:17:49,879 --> 02:17:51,000
Speaker 1: No, I'd love to have you back on.

2598
02:17:53,160 --> 02:17:54,760
Speaker 2: And let's get out there together at some point too.

2599
02:17:54,959 --> 02:17:55,959
Speaker 2: Would That's why I'd rather.

2600
02:17:55,879 --> 02:17:57,720
Speaker 1: Be hit us up in a year. That's kind of

2601
02:17:57,720 --> 02:18:01,720
Speaker 1: a year later we allowed. I have a lot of

2602
02:18:01,720 --> 02:18:02,240
Speaker 1: people to come back.

2603
02:18:02,320 --> 02:18:03,800
Speaker 2: I'll put her well, hopefully we made a lot of progress.

2604
02:18:03,800 --> 02:18:05,400
Speaker 2: I'll put it on my calendar one year.

2605
02:18:05,480 --> 02:18:08,160
Speaker 1: One year unless things change a whole bunch and that's

2606
02:18:08,160 --> 02:18:10,160
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you win all the environmental battles,

2607
02:18:10,400 --> 02:18:11,040
Speaker 1: then come back on.

2608
02:18:12,720 --> 02:18:14,160
Speaker 2: Is that that's the incentive right there?

2609
02:18:15,440 --> 02:18:17,600
Speaker 1: All right, you do an update, we won them all.

2610
02:18:20,640 --> 02:18:23,320
Speaker 2: I'll see in a year that's no way, that's happening.

2611
02:18:23,560 --> 02:18:25,360
Speaker 1: All right, Thanks man, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

2612
02:18:31,520 --> 02:18:34,720
Speaker 1: H M.