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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live weekdays at ten am

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Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: In terms of earnings outs, it's another big day for

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Speaker 2: the big banks Bank of America and Morgan Stanley Alson

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Speaker 2: Williams joins us. She is the senior bank analyst for

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg Intelligence. She is the expert on these big banks. Alex,

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Speaker 2: let's start with one of my former employers, Bank of America,

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Speaker 2: Merrill Lynch. I'm going to keep that name in the

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Speaker 2: in the name, there wouldn't be an investment bank that

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Speaker 2: work for Merrill Lynch.

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Speaker 3: Talk to us about what we saw the Bank of America, Allison, So.

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Speaker 4: I think the Merrill Lynch side of things did very well,

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Speaker 4: so making you proud there. Thank the wild fees came

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Speaker 4: in better than expected. Equities trading and equities fees also

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Speaker 4: better than expected. So continuing to build on some of

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Speaker 4: those investments in the investment banks. So everything going well there,

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Speaker 4: and actually on the net interest income sort of a

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Speaker 4: standout result in the sense that their net interest income

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Speaker 4: actually increased from the prior quarter. It was better than expected.

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Speaker 4: So that all sounded great until we got to the

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Speaker 4: conference call and the bank really just kept their guidance

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Speaker 4: study and so I think that's what the stock maybe

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Speaker 4: reacting to today. But really, I mean, that's consistent with

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Speaker 4: the other banks, and frankly, I think makes sense. We

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Speaker 4: had look at the change we had since the last

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Speaker 4: time the banks reported. Last time they reported, it was

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Speaker 4: six to seven cuts expected. Today, I mean it's been

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Speaker 4: three and drifting lower, right, So those expectations keep getting

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Speaker 4: pushed out, and with things changing so dramatically, I don't

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Speaker 4: think it's surprising that they kept their guidance stable. I

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Speaker 4: would point out that their guidance is a little bit

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Speaker 4: more positive in the sense that they do expect growth

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Speaker 4: in the second half. I think just maybe ahead of

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Speaker 4: the call, people got excited and thought, you know, could

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Speaker 4: we have already seen the trough and they're saying, no,

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Speaker 4: second quarter is going to.

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Speaker 3: Be the troughs.

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Speaker 5: Maybe it was the seventeen uses of strong in a

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Speaker 5: statement that kind of raised that expectation. Also, what was interesting, though,

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Speaker 5: was the charge off so that increased by about three

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Speaker 5: hundred and six million dollars to one and a half billion.

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Speaker 5: Can you talk us through I know that's the that's

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Speaker 5: the bank side of the business, the everyday banker side

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Speaker 5: of the business.

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Speaker 6: But what's that what's that going on there?

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Speaker 4: And that you know, that is the other part of it.

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Speaker 4: And so you know, when we think about core lending income,

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Speaker 4: it's the net interest income is the revenue side, and

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Speaker 4: provisions are a key part of the cost side of things.

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Speaker 4: Obviously operating costs the other part. And what we saw

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Speaker 4: was charge us came men higher than expected. Part of

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Speaker 4: that was Card. We do expect that from Card. It's

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Speaker 4: a seasonally higher quarter. Delinquencies tend to be lower, and

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Speaker 4: they are signaling improvement from here. So that's a negative.

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Speaker 4: But as I said, sort of in line with the

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Speaker 4: trends on the commercial real estate, charge offs higher than expected,

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Speaker 4: and the bank talked about changing some of their revaluation

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Speaker 4: and their models sort of feeding into this. But basically,

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Speaker 4: you know, looking forward to the future quarters, they think

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Speaker 4: that things might look a little bit better, but for

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Speaker 4: the quarter, things weaker. On commercial real estate. We know

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Speaker 4: that that's a hot button issue for investors. It's something

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Speaker 4: we've said, it's going to be a long story to

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Speaker 4: play out, so sometimes a little better, sometimes a little worse.

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Speaker 4: But Wells Fargo we did actually see some improvement in

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Speaker 4: their non performers, and so I think that was more

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Speaker 4: negative for Bank of America.

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Speaker 3: Also, what is Bank of America saying about loan growth?

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Speaker 3: I mean, are their.

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Speaker 2: Corporate bankers are they making loans or do the customers

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Speaker 2: need capital?

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Speaker 3: What are they seeing they are?

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Speaker 4: But it's your friends at Merrill Lynch that are making

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Speaker 4: the loans and not you know, sort of that middle back,

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Speaker 4: middle market, asset based type of business. So we saw,

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Speaker 4: you know, the debt issue ince this quarter we saw

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Speaker 4: very strong and we've heard mixings from banks in terms

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Speaker 4: of if they think some of that has been pulled forward.

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Speaker 4: But the bottom line is capital markets very strong, but

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Speaker 4: you know, the bread and butter lending business, those loan

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Speaker 4: balances coming in weak and weaker than expected. And so

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Speaker 4: that's another piece to the interest income is you know,

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Speaker 4: how much of it relates to securities and higher yielding securities,

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Speaker 4: whereas the loan growth you know, has been weak, and

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Speaker 4: if we don't get those fed cuts, you know, are

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Speaker 4: we going to get some improvement, and so Bank of

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Speaker 4: America I think has some improvement baked into its net

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Speaker 4: interest income guidance. But I think there could be some

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Speaker 4: skepticism out there, you know, if the rates stay high.

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Speaker 4: You know, we're already seeing that impacting demand. Could that

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Speaker 4: continue to be soft?

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Speaker 5: And then wrapping up here, Morgan Stanley, that stocks up

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Speaker 5: by about three point seven percent.

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Speaker 6: What stood out to you? They seem to kind of

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Speaker 6: fire on all the cylinders they did.

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Speaker 4: I mean, they delivered on all of their key metrics.

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Speaker 4: Number one, the wealth flows. We had really strong wealth

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Speaker 4: flows first half of last year. That's softened, so we're

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Speaker 4: showing a little bit of a rebound. So that's definitely

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Speaker 4: a positive. Equity trading coming in better than expected, Equity

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Speaker 4: fees coming in better than expected pretty much, you know,

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Speaker 4: all of the investment banking lines except for M and

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Speaker 4: A coming in better, so that's all good. And then

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Speaker 4: the profit margin, which is the other key thing investors

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Speaker 4: focus on, coming in you know, about twenty six percent,

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Speaker 4: and so that's in line with the revised guidance. Keep

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Speaker 4: in mind they do have a thirty percent target near term.

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Speaker 4: They said, excuse me, long term near term, they said

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Speaker 4: it's going to be a little bit lower because of investments,

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Speaker 4: So coming in beating the consensus and within their target.

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Speaker 4: So you know, there are some select modest negatives in

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Speaker 4: the quarter, but in general hitting all the high points

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Speaker 4: and some I think restoring some confidence for Morgan Stanley.

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Speaker 2: So Allison, where are we just in terms of the

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Speaker 2: big investment banks in terms of headcount? Are they where

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Speaker 2: they need to be? Do they need more downsizing?

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Speaker 3: Where are they?

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Speaker 4: I think, Paul that really is going to depend on

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Speaker 4: if we can get some sustained momentum investment banking fees.

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Speaker 4: So you know, all the managements generally spoke very positively

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Speaker 4: in terms of what we're seeing, you know, talking about

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Speaker 4: the IPO is getting better reception. Maybe there's some better

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Speaker 4: outlook there. Morgan Stanley today just talking about the fact

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Speaker 4: that you know, at some point companies need to execute

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Speaker 4: on things that they need to do in terms of

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Speaker 4: either going public or doing deals, et cetera. But I

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Speaker 4: do think that a lot of the headcount has really

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Speaker 4: been conservative in terms of the cuts we've seen since

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Speaker 4: the boom, because we had such a scramble in that

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Speaker 4: you know, record a twenty twenty one time period. As

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Speaker 4: you recall all the headline stories about the scramble for

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Speaker 4: talent and ratcheting up of pay of junior talent, and

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Speaker 4: so it's really going to depend on if we can

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Speaker 4: see that sustained momentum and investment banking, and then that

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Speaker 4: that headcount gets put to work. If we are disappointed,

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Speaker 4: there could be sort of another look at things.

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Speaker 5: Unfortunately, and didn't they all they paid up for that though,

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Speaker 5: right Like I feel like they had to definitely shell

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Speaker 5: out the money to those bankers this quarter in a

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Speaker 5: different way, No.

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Speaker 4: And compensate revenue in general has been a lot stickier,

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Speaker 4: and so we definitely saw that last year. This quarter

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Speaker 4: we saw the compensation ratios coming in, you know, about

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Speaker 4: in line, showing some good cost control at companies like

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Speaker 4: Morgan Stanley and Goldman where we have the most visibility. However,

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Speaker 4: keep in mind it was a really strong revenue quarter,

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Speaker 4: so again we're going to want to see that revenue

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Speaker 4: continue to support the compensation.

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Speaker 3: Hey, just real quickly thirty seconds.

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Speaker 2: I see the City Group is the best performing of

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Speaker 2: the big banks here here to date. Is this finally

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Speaker 2: Jane Fraser getting listening moving?

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Speaker 4: I mean I think it is, and I think they

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Speaker 4: do have you know, they have a positive story and

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Speaker 4: they have the most potential for improvement. So even though

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Speaker 4: their returns are the weakness, they have a path and

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Speaker 4: you know, Jane Frasier really making some tough moves. We

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Speaker 4: know that City Group has been you know, a story

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Speaker 4: of restructuring it seems like forever, but really making some

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Speaker 4: dramatic cuts and layers, you know, focusing on the core businesses,

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Speaker 4: you know, really taking an acts to some poor markets.

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Speaker 4: So I think there there is a story there.

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Speaker 3: Also.

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Speaker 4: Credit Card, as we said, you know, we've talked about

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Speaker 4: cart is the business that's growing in loans, not the

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Speaker 4: commercial and so that's helping City Group.

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Speaker 3: They're the most exposed. They're a big player there. Yep.

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Speaker 2: All right, Allison, great stuff has always Alison Williams, senior

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Speaker 2: bank analysts for Bloomberg Intelligence breaking down some of the

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Speaker 2: big banks again today Morgan Stanley Bank of America.

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Speaker 3: We had JP Morgan.

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Speaker 2: Last week, So some pretty solid results coming out of

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Speaker 2: the big banks.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence podcast. Catch us live

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Speaker 1: Just say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 5: So we're here at the Bloomberg and EF Annual Energy

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Speaker 5: and Climate Summit. So it brings together corporate executives, government officials,

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Speaker 5: industry leaders to talk about the stuff that's going on

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Speaker 5: in the energy industry, in particular clean power, trade, federal

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Speaker 5: US policy, hydrogen, clean tech, all the stuff. Now, a

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Speaker 5: key figure in all of this comes from DC and

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Speaker 5: his name is David Crane. He's Under Secretary for Infrastructure

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Speaker 5: in the US Department for Energy. He was also CEO

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Speaker 5: of NRG for about twelve years back in the day.

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Speaker 5: And his job is to make all of this stuff

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Speaker 5: work in a realistic fashion.

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Speaker 6: Good luck, David, that's a gun.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. Well. I said, there's a lot of stuff, a.

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Speaker 6: Lot of stuff.

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Speaker 5: So something was you had a speech and a panel

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Speaker 5: and something that you said that really stuck out. You said,

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Speaker 5: demand growth in the US for power is going to

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Speaker 5: be more than we thought for the last ten years.

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Speaker 5: So twenty twelve to twenty twenty two, power demand was

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Speaker 5: up just fifty basis points a year, and now we're

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Speaker 5: looking at five to six percent a year.

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Speaker 6: I tell that to Paul and his eyes glaze over.

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Speaker 6: But it's really important. What does that actually mean?

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Speaker 7: Well, five to six percent in our world is huge.

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Speaker 7: I mean that's that's like tiger economies from the nineteen nineties.

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Speaker 7: And because of the long lead time of most things

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Speaker 7: in the electricity sector, those five to six percent per

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Speaker 7: year pile up if you're not if you're not getting

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Speaker 7: after it. So what it means is and what's very

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Speaker 7: important all this as we look at these transitioning to

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Speaker 7: the clean energy economy, all these new technologies, is you

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Speaker 7: always have to ask the time question, what you need

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Speaker 7: and what time frame, and what are the solutions that

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Speaker 7: fit that land within that time frame?

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: A couple of summers ago, my summer read was the

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Speaker 2: Grid Frame Wires between Americans and our Energy Future. I

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Speaker 2: read that on the beach and people are laughing me

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Speaker 2: like a geek. So I feel like I know what

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about here, and what I know is we

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Speaker 2: need constant investment in our energy grid. And if Alex

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Speaker 2: is right, the energy demand is going to keep increasing.

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Speaker 3: That's even more so.

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Speaker 2: What are some of the key issues that you need

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Speaker 2: to tackle or trying to tackle at least in the

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Speaker 2: short term.

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Speaker 7: Here, Well, first of all, I need to tackle what

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Speaker 7: your summer reading is each Paul, I think you got

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Speaker 7: to get a life exactly.

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Speaker 3: If that's what.

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Speaker 7: I think, well, I mean one big one, the missing link,

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Speaker 7: and I mentioned this on stage as well, is permitting reform.

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Speaker 7: I mean, we're very supportive permitting reform. It takes a

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Speaker 7: lot of different permutations. I'm personally not a policy person.

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Speaker 7: I'm the implementation person. But we just need to do

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Speaker 7: things faster because just the scale of infrastructure that exists

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Speaker 7: under this new legislation, just in my area, by the

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Speaker 7: end this year, we will have invested in over one

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Speaker 7: hundred infrastructure projects that are over one hundred million dollars

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Speaker 7: each and so we're straining the system in many different ways.

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Speaker 7: But permitting it should not be the bottleneck.

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Speaker 5: So to break that down a little bit. When we

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Speaker 5: say permitting, what are we talking about? I say that

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Speaker 5: in terms of like, are we going to have to

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Speaker 5: move power lines underground? For example, do we need more

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Speaker 5: transmission lines if we're going to set up that hydrogen

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Speaker 5: hub or a new nuclear facility, and we need to

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Speaker 5: get that to the grid. Does it mean we need

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Speaker 5: to just try less start over and like do a

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Speaker 5: new grid. Like there's a lot of ways that infrastructure

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Speaker 5: can be used. What does it actually mean for you?

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Speaker 7: Well, of the two that you mentioned specifically, any of them, okay, Well,

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Speaker 7: I would leave aside undergrounding wires because that's more of

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Speaker 7: a climate mitigation thing.

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Speaker 3: It's where you need to do it.

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Speaker 7: It's very important. But in terms of solving the demand issue,

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Speaker 7: the transmission thing breaks into sort of two parts, and

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Speaker 7: the answer is yes and yes we need both. One

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Speaker 7: is we need more transmission lines to move the energy

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Speaker 7: around the country or at least around regions. But then

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Speaker 7: we also need this thing which is grid innovation, which

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Speaker 7: is a series of technologies which are not in the

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Speaker 7: popular mindset, things like reconductoring, where you basically taking existing

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Speaker 7: rights away in the towers and you take down the

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Speaker 7: ceramic circular things and in some cases the wires and

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Speaker 7: you what we call reconductoring, and you can get two

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Speaker 7: to three times the amount of power over the same

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Speaker 7: line and you don't need a ride away. It's cheaper

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Speaker 7: and that's good for rate payers. And we just in

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Speaker 7: fact publish a report about this today at the DOE

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Speaker 7: called the Grid Innovation Liftoff Report, and so there's that,

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Speaker 7: and there's a host of other things, but basically we

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Speaker 7: need all of the above right now.

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Speaker 2: And is this a federal funded issue or is this

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Speaker 2: a federal end state issue?

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Speaker 3: Doesn't go how local does it get? Because I think of.

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Speaker 2: Texas with its own grid, and I'm wondering how should

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Speaker 2: they be integrated, for example, the national grid.

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Speaker 7: I mean going to want that, Yeah, exactly, Yeah, Paul,

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Speaker 7: that's what I'm not touching. I mean, there's a reason

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Speaker 7: that Texas is a sovereign onto itself when it comes

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Speaker 7: to their electric system. But most so, we have a

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Speaker 7: lot of financing tools in the tool chest, but most

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Speaker 7: of them are set up as sort of matching funds.

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Speaker 7: We put up up to fifty percent against fifty percent

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Speaker 7: coming from basically anywhere else that's not federal government. So

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Speaker 7: we say fifty plus percent from non federal sources, and

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Speaker 7: if it states, if it's the private sector, that's all

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Speaker 7: good with us.

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Speaker 6: And that's what you need to see in order to

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Speaker 6: commit the money after that. Yes, yeah, so how does

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Speaker 6: this all square?

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Speaker 5: So the stuff you're talking about, like reconstituting the grid

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Speaker 5: like that, Like that's not sexy cool stuff like clean

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Speaker 5: tech and hydrogen.

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Speaker 6: Right, how much of your job.

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Speaker 5: Is on the energy that we're going to need in

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Speaker 5: fifty years, and how much of that is how do

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Speaker 5: we get more transmission mechanisms, how do we get that

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Speaker 5: plug that we can't get so we can change the grid?

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Speaker 7: You know, Alex, I was getting a little hung up

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Speaker 7: on what's actually sexy in the world of electricity. But

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Speaker 7: I'm glad that you can distinguish between hydrogen on one

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Speaker 7: in transmission. But what I'd say is, first of all,

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Speaker 7: nothing that if I thought that what I was doing

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Speaker 7: was just affecting the twenty fifty like you know, at

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Speaker 7: my age, I wouldn't be doing it.

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Speaker 3: But we are.

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Speaker 7: We're aiming for the Biden administration goal of zero carbon

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Speaker 7: electric sector by twenty thirty five, and so, but you're

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Speaker 7: the premise of your question is correct because of this

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Speaker 7: new awareness of demand issues. I would say that what

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Speaker 7: I've been focused on my two years at the DOE

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Speaker 7: is what does the system look like sort of between

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Speaker 7: twenty twenty eight to twenty thirty five, first of a kind,

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Speaker 7: fast following commercial but because of this new concern, I

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Speaker 7: think we're gonna be even looking at more three to

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Speaker 7: five year solutions. And that's where things like the grid

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Speaker 7: innovations are important, because that's a three to five year solution.

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Speaker 2: David, what are you seeing from the major utility companies

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Speaker 2: in the United States? Are they making the investments they

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Speaker 2: need to make to make this transition?

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Speaker 6: Will they be allowed to maybe allow exactly.

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Speaker 7: Well, it's I mean, first of all, I think what

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Speaker 7: I would say just in the last year and talking

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Speaker 7: to the utility cos and I would bet a lot

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Speaker 7: of money that you're going to be talking to some

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Speaker 7: here on your show today so they can probably speak

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Speaker 7: for themselves, is first of all, there's now universal concern

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Speaker 7: about this, where that didn't exist a year before. I

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Speaker 7: think they're still in the situation where their chief financial

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Speaker 7: officers are saying, look, this is a really expensive time

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Speaker 7: to raise money in the private sector. And we have

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Speaker 7: a program within our Loan Program Office called the seventeen

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Speaker 7: oh six program, which utilities qualify for and at current

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Speaker 7: prevailing interest rates, the interest advantage, but I'm told by

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Speaker 7: utilities is somewhere between one hundred and fifteen and two

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Speaker 7: hundred basis points and we go large. I mean, we

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Speaker 7: have two hundred and fifty billion dollars of loan capacity.

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Speaker 7: So we're working with a bunch of utilities to see

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Speaker 7: if that could become part of their cap structure. But

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Speaker 7: as you say, they're under pressure not to raise rates.

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Speaker 7: And it's just the nature of investment in electric infrastructure

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Speaker 7: is like you build something today, you know it has

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Speaker 7: to be paid for today. The benefits of it, you know,

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Speaker 7: play out over fifty years.

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Speaker 3: But so it is attention.

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Speaker 7: But no one wants to run out of power.

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Speaker 5: No, And I guess one of the key issues that

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Speaker 5: I feel like has really pivoted interest in the sector

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Speaker 5: is AI and data centers. Right, Like we all knew

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Speaker 5: you got to plug in an EV that's going to

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Speaker 5: use electricity. We all knew that stuff. But now that

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Speaker 5: people really seem to care, because tech companies care. Do

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Speaker 5: you spend a lot of time talking in tech companies?

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Speaker 5: Do they call you oral they call someone else in

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Speaker 5: your office?

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Speaker 7: Increasingly? If you would, I would say, you know the

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Speaker 7: dee why I got their head? Sort of their natural constituencies,

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Speaker 7: like you know, traditional energy companies, new energy companies, but

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Speaker 7: the tech companies have loomed larger and larger and have

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Speaker 7: become more and more frequent visitors and at very high

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Speaker 7: levels too, not just you know, the data center person,

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Speaker 7: like the senior executives of these and that's very important

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Speaker 7: because I think they're a huge partner in this. And

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Speaker 7: you know, the thing about electricity is we always say

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Speaker 7: the era of big power plants, supply would be added

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Speaker 7: in big chunks, but demand would grow and there'd be

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Speaker 7: occasional imbounces. But now with these data centers, demand is

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Speaker 7: growing in these big chunks and in specific places which

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Speaker 7: they won't tell you where they are, right because that's

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Speaker 7: that's one of their competitive secrets, right, So we need

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Speaker 7: to have a partnership with them, and overall, I think

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Speaker 7: it's a great thing.

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Speaker 5: All right, David, thanks a lot. It was really great

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Speaker 5: to get your perspective. I really enjoyed talking to you.

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Speaker 5: Thank you so much for David Crean, Undersecretary for Infrastructure

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Speaker 5: at the DOE.

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Speaker 6: You really read that book, I'm I did.

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Speaker 3: Yep. Keith grossmaner recommendation, you win, yeps. Very good.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live

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Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on fo car Play and

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Speaker 1: enroud outo with the Bloomberg Business App, Listen on demand

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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 5: Paul and I we are here in our Continental Hotel

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Speaker 5: right here in midtown Manhattan at the Bloomberg a NEF Summit.

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Speaker 5: We have global leaders, you have thought leaders, you have

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Speaker 5: CEOs kind of getting together and discussing the clean energy,

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Speaker 5: green energy transition, how to get there, and also how

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Speaker 5: to satisfy the demand for power that we're seeing right now,

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Speaker 5: which is enormous. Joining us here now on site is

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Speaker 5: Pedro Pizarro, President and CEO of Edison International. And that's

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Speaker 5: just two buckets for you, right like, how do you

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Speaker 5: decarbonize the grid and get to that goal? And then

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Speaker 5: how do you match the power demand today from data

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Speaker 5: centers AI to people wanted charging their evs at home.

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Speaker 5: Let's go to the ladder first. What kind of demand

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Speaker 5: are you seeing? Who's calling you up?

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Speaker 8: Well, I can tell you from a Southern California Edison perspective,

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Speaker 8: our utility we had had flat growth for the last

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Speaker 8: fifteen years. We're now seeing something like two percent load

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Speaker 8: growth and in our state, a lot of vatas transportation,

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Speaker 8: electrification I'm also chair of the Edison Electric Constitute, which

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Speaker 8: represents the investor own utilities across the country, about seventy

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Speaker 8: percent of the load UH. Two years ago, EI members

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Speaker 8: were forecasting something like a two percent load growth over

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Speaker 8: the next years ahead. The most updated numbers are four

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Speaker 8: point seven percent, and I have colleagues in some states

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Speaker 8: that are seeing five six seven percent. So who's who's

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Speaker 8: calling it is electrification in places like California more broadly

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Speaker 8: across the country, but I think we're more leading edge there.

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Speaker 8: It is data center growth that you read a lot

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Speaker 8: about that. And then it's also the repatriation of manufacturing.

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Speaker 8: You know, the bipartisan Infrastructure Law is working and it's

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Speaker 8: bringing back a lot of you know, manufacturing into the country.

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Speaker 8: And that's another source.

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Speaker 2: Oh interesting, So can you, being your company and your industry,

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Speaker 2: can you handle that increase in load?

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Speaker 9: Yes?

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Speaker 8: There will be there, yes, and there will be some

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Speaker 8: bumps in the road, right. I was sharing with Alex

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Speaker 8: earlier that it's not the first time in our history

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Speaker 8: of the industry we've seen this, right, rural electrification, air

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Speaker 8: conditioning load, So we lived through these periods. It's been

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Speaker 8: the last fifteen years or so that it's been fairly flat.

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Speaker 8: So how do we handle it in the near term? Right,

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Speaker 8: you see a lot of focus of utilities working in

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Speaker 8: their various regions' power companies, working with regional transmission organizations,

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Speaker 8: and you know, working with customers to make sure we're

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Speaker 8: using every tool available. Demand site management is important. Energy

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Speaker 8: efficiency is important, but so is making sure that we

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Speaker 8: can maintain and in some cases expand existing resources, and

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Speaker 8: ultimately we need to add new resources to the system.

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Speaker 6: How do you pay for that?

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Speaker 5: Because as yields have moved higher, stock moves lower and

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Speaker 5: then it's more expensive to borrow.

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Speaker 6: How do you do it?

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Speaker 8: Well, you know, it is an investment in infrastructure that's needed,

440
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 8: and this is an industry that's been investing for a

441
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 8: long time. Our members at EI have invested over a

442
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 8: trillion dollars over the last decade on infrastructure, one hundred

443
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 8: and sixty eight billion dollars last year alone.

444
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 6: Right, So it's eventually the right pair, right.

445
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 8: It isn't eventually the rate pair, right, and so we

446
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 8: have a responsibility to make sure that that investment is

447
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 8: economics being done thoughtfully. It's been doing done efficiently, but importantly,

448
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 8: this investment has multiple users. Right, there is the near

449
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 8: term need to keep up with demand, but there's also

450
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,120
Speaker 8: the longer term need for investing tordsy carbonization.

451
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 9: Right.

452
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 8: Then, the industry's been going as clean as we can,

453
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 8: as fast as we can, but while maintaining reliability and affordability.

454
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 8: And so those investments are the same investments that are

455
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 8: needed to build out the transmission grid, to add renewable resources,

456
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:32,880
Speaker 8: to add storage, and that helps with climate change mitigation.

457
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 8: There's also investment that we're needing to put in to

458
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 8: deal with climate change adaptation, right, the effects of extreme weather,

459
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 8: the effects we've seen initially in California and now across

460
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 8: the country in wildfire. Right, so my own company has

461
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 8: been investing billions of dollars to redesign the system to

462
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 8: harden it against wildfires. Other colleagues are having to do

463
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,919
Speaker 8: that now. So all of these investments accrue to the

464
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 8: customer customer benefit, whether it's to keep the system safer,

465
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 8: keep community safer, and also to support the demand growth

466
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:02,199
Speaker 8: that we're seeing.

467
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 2: So Pedro just before early this morning, Alison and I

468
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 2: spoke to David Crane, under Secretary for Infrastructure at the

469
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 2: US Department of Energy and he said, one of his

470
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 2: major goals over the next several years is to make

471
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 2: permitting easier, presumably to allow companies like yours to make

472
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 2: these investments that maybe in a quicker manner.

473
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 3: Are you seeing that or what do you need to see?

474
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,879
Speaker 8: Absolutely need it? Okay, And so if you gave me

475
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 8: a magic one, then gave me one wish for the industry,

476
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 8: it would be that.

477
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 6: Okay, I don't blame you, all right, And.

478
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 8: We have other challenges supply chain, labor availability, but it's

479
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 8: really citing and permitting the needs the most help. Just

480
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 8: to frame it for you little bit, Paul, the analysis

481
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 8: that we've done as Edison for California and what we'll

482
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 8: take to the carbonics the whole California economy by twenty

483
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 8: forty five, you know, it says stas net zero goal

484
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 8: still feasible, right, but it will require significant investment for renewables,

485
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 8: for storage for the grid, three hundred and seventy billion

486
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 8: dollars of investment state wide through twenty forty five. That analysis,

487
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 8: by the way, from an affordability person, back to your

488
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 8: comment earlier, Alex, we do see that that will put

489
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 8: pressure pressure on electric rates and bills, but because it's

490
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 8: a transition, right, A lot of that electrification will be

491
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 8: removing uses in the economy that they are using combustion

492
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 8: processes with fossil fuels. These are more efficient technologies, right.

493
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 8: The electric car is more efficient than an internal combustion

494
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 8: engine car. We see the total energy build for our

495
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 8: average customer electric plus gas plus gasoline going down by

496
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,400
Speaker 8: forty percent in real turns between now and twenty forty five.

497
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 8: So that goes to these investments having a co benefit

498
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 8: of affordability. And so as we look at how we,

499
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 8: you know, proceed with this kind of investment, you know,

500
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 8: we have to keep in mind that it has those

501
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 8: multiple benefits.

502
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 5: So all of it has to work at the same

503
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 5: time for that to be that forty CLINEB.

504
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 8: Solute, and we need to be able to get the

505
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,439
Speaker 8: steel in the ground through setting and permitting, and so

506
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 8: part of our analysis showed that the rate at which

507
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 8: we add transmission will need to be four times the

508
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 8: annual rate that it's been historically. The rate at which

509
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 8: we add distribution the lower voltage wires will it to

510
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 8: be ten times a rate. So when David Crane talked

511
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 8: about its heading on permitting, absolutely needed and it's help

512
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 8: that we need at both the federal and the state

513
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 8: and even the local levels.

514
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 6: Before we let you go.

515
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 5: When you talk about types of energy, what are you

516
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 5: looking at? What means green to you?

517
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 8: A lot of things and we need all of it right.

518
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 8: It's the traditional renewables that are commercially available today, like

519
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 8: onshore wind, solar, geothermal. It's new technologies offshore wind, next

520
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 8: generation geothermal that might be using you horizontal drilling techniques.

521
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,919
Speaker 8: It's nuclear right because nuclear is carbon free, and so

522
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 8: investments needed their storage.

523
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 3: Today we're really.

524
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 8: Relying on lithium ion chemistry. We need different chemistries and

525
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 8: the Department of Energy has been a prime mover in investing,

526
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 8: putting our tax dollars to good work to find alternate chemistries.

527
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 8: So it really is all of the above.

528
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 2: If I'm an investor, do I invest in the utility industry?

529
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,679
Speaker 2: It seems like you guys got years and years and

530
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 2: years of investment. What do you tell investors as to

531
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 2: the returns that you try to deliver.

532
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 8: It's a long, good road ahead in terms of the

533
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 8: infrastructure investment that's needed through our industry. At our company,

534
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 8: we talk about how we have set a you know,

535
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,479
Speaker 8: growth rate guidance five to seven percent earnings per share

536
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 8: growth rate from mouth through twenty twenty eight. We see

537
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 8: that that need for investment is supported both by these

538
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 8: immediate needs but also by long term state policy in California.

539
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 8: I think, you know, my peers across the country are

540
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 8: all seeing a similar sort of phenomenon where the investment

541
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 8: is absolutely needed. It's core to the economy. The electric

542
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 8: sector is five or six percent the GDP, but it

543
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 8: powers the other ninety four to ninety five percent.

544
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 3: There you go, all right, Pedro Pizzaro, thank you so

545
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 3: much for joining us. Really appreciated.

546
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 2: Pedro Pisato, President and Chief executive Officer of Edison International,

547
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 2: here at the Bloomberg New Energy Finance Conference here in

548
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 2: the Intercot at the Hotel in Midtown Manhattan, looking at

549
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 2: the energy transition to cleaner energies.

550
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live

551
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on applecar Play and Android

552
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen

553
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station,

554
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: just Say Alexa, playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.

555
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 5: We are live from an Intercontinental Hotel right here on

556
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 5: fortieth Street in Midtown Manhattan. We're at Bloomberg's any F

557
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 5: annual Energy and Climate Summit, bringing together corporate executives, government officials,

558
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 5: and industry leaders all to talk about how we get

559
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 5: to clean energy, what the policy is like, what the

560
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 5: clean power is like, and how we get there. A

561
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 5: big part of that story is actually going to be technology.

562
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 5: It's the AI and the data centers that are in

563
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 5: part responsible for the huge bump and power demand that

564
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 5: we're going to see over the next few years. So

565
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 5: luckily we have someone who has to deal with this

566
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 5: on a day to day basis. We're joined now by

567
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 5: Amanda Peterson Coreo. She's a global head of Data Center

568
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 5: Energy at Google.

569
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 6: So great to be here with you.

570
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 10: Thank you so much for having me.

571
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 3: My pleasure.

572
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 5: So you're the person that has to power the data

573
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 5: centers and call up the power providers and energy companies

574
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 5: and be like, guys, help me out.

575
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 6: It's not me, it's a whole team of people.

576
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 10: So I am not the sole person doing that, but

577
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 10: yes that our job is really to figure out how

578
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 10: do we enable Google to grow and how do we

579
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 10: do that in a way that's sustainable load growth over time.

580
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 2: All right, So what we hear what Alex and I

581
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 2: hear from really we've just started learning about this over

582
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 2: the last couple of years, is the demand from a

583
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 2: lot of these technology companies. And we've had CEOs of

584
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 2: utilities say, I'm talking to you tech executives these days.

585
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:46,479
Speaker 3: I've never talked to them in the past. Yeah, what

586
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 3: are you trying to do?

587
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 2: You think about the next five to ten years of

588
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 2: Google's energy needs.

589
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 3: You're not just going to plug into a coal plant,

590
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 3: I'm guessing now, absolutely, what are you thinking about these days?

591
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 10: So I think we're doing a number of things, right.

592
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 10: We see, as you mentioned, a wave of demand growth

593
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 10: that we haven't seen in the last two decades in

594
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 10: the US, it's been pretty flat to stagnant. Data centers,

595
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 10: as you mentioned, are getting a lot of attention. But

596
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 10: actually they're just a part of really what's reindustrialization and

597
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 10: electrification of manufacturing, transport, heating, right, and digitization is just

598
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 10: one role of that. And so we have to look

599
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 10: at that and think about how are we going to

600
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 10: grow in this new market landscape.

601
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 3: We do a few things.

602
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 10: We see our role in working in partnership with our

603
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 10: utilities to figure out how can we bring new firm capacity,

604
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 10: so not just clean energy, but firm clean capacity to

605
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 10: the grid so that we can really meet those demand

606
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 10: needs over the next decade. We also look at how

607
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 10: we can do things more efficiently because really what we're trying,

608
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 10: what the challenge we're seeing is the amount of growth

609
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 10: we have over the next decade total collectively on the system.

610
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 10: So what we're trying to do is make new efficient processes.

611
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 10: So last year we innovate a new way to buy

612
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 10: and sell electricity, reducing the time by eighty percent with

613
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 10: our partners at Level ten Energy, and this enabled us

614
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 10: to get one and a half gigawatts again in eighty

615
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 10: percent of the time it used to take us in

616
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 10: just one year. So things like this is how we're

617
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 10: working in partnership to meet that need.

618
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 6: Oh so many questions.

619
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 5: Okay, so the first one is do you is it

620
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 5: going to be just for the data centers we take

621
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 5: that Is it going to be let me just plug

622
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 5: that data center into the grid, or is it going

623
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 5: to be that these data centers become their own sort

624
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 5: of mini power generators, either by having like a small

625
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 5: nuclear reactor near them to power it.

626
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 6: How do you see that relationship evolving?

627
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean there's many forms to get power as

628
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 10: you as you pointed out, the most efficient and the

629
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 10: best is to be grid connected.

630
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 3: Right.

631
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 10: The reason we have an electricity grid is the evolution

632
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 10: of is it doesn't make sense to have all of these.

633
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 5: But does that imply that if you turn on your

634
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:52,719
Speaker 5: data center, I lose my electricity?

635
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 10: Absolutely not, not at all. Actually, data centers actually provide

636
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 10: a lot of voltage stabilization to the grid because as

637
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 10: we're a firm and constant load over time. Now when

638
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 10: we connect to a grid, we ensure that we're also

639
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 10: bringing in new generation, new transmission to help power and

640
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 10: expand the grid. Definitely not take away from the electricity

641
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 10: that's already providing services to others.

642
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 3: So I'm guessing you can't do it alone.

643
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 2: I'm guessing there's can be some partnerships along the way,

644
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 2: and they've got one with Microsoft and new Core.

645
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 3: Yeah. Tell us about that and how that could be

646
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 3: a template for Yeah.

647
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 10: So one of the challenges we saw is exactly what

648
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,479
Speaker 10: I just touched on, that we're seeing a lot of

649
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 10: intermittent capacity from new clean generation but we're not seeing

650
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 10: the same uptick and firm clean capacity onto the grid.

651
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 10: And that's because this technology is still more nascent relative

652
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 10: to more traditional thermal assets like gas generators. And so

653
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 10: we said, we've got to show that the demand is there,

654
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 10: and so we've partnered with Microsoft and new Core to say,

655
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 10: let's aggregate our demand and think about how we can

656
00:32:55,840 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 10: can drive scale basically for this new and get that

657
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 10: onto the grid faster. So we announced this a few

658
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 10: weeks ago. We're here with them today. We're going to

659
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 10: speak out a lunch session today to say more about

660
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 10: what we're looking for, how we can help and really trying.

661
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 6: To drive that.

662
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 5: Going back to how data centers provide stability to the grid,

663
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 5: how I've heard that a lot that like a data

664
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 5: center can help provide electricity because you price sensitive, I

665
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 5: don't know, I've heard lots of things.

666
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 6: How do you help?

667
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 10: I mean part of it is that unlike you who

668
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,719
Speaker 10: may be turning on your lights early in the morning

669
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 10: or late at night and then dropping the day, that's

670
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 10: hard for the grid to manage and frequency regulation, a

671
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 10: data center is predictable and having predictable load is something

672
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,959
Speaker 10: that utilities and the grid greatly value because then they

673
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 10: can plan better around it and not have to turn

674
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 10: on and off generation resources.

675
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 6: I see, okay, all.

676
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 2: Right, So when I look at the capex line of

677
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 2: Google and it's the GDP of more than most countries

678
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 2: here and a lot of us building new data centers

679
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 2: and capacity there, do they come to you like day

680
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 2: one and say we're going to get the cheapest energy,

681
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 2: We're going to get the most efficient energy. How does

682
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 2: the energy aspect come into all the capex that they're

683
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 2: spending in terms of day data entergy.

684
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 3: Yeah.

685
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 10: Absolutely, they were part of the data center team that

686
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 10: goes out and decides where do we cite our next

687
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 10: data center? What makes sense and power is absolutely at

688
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 10: the core of everything we do. As mentioned, it's where

689
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 10: do we have access to that clean capacity that can

690
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 10: really deliver us growth, but also what markets can we

691
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 10: participate in that give us the ability to have customer choice.

692
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 10: We operate in over eighty electricity grids around the world.

693
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 10: No two unfortunately are the same, but some we have

694
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 10: a lot of choice and deregulated markets and ourtos, But

695
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 10: there's a lot more we can do and partner with

696
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 10: and in markets that are fully regulated we were looking

697
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 10: to partner with our utilities to say, hey, how can

698
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 10: we innovate, how can we evolve? How can we take

699
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,919
Speaker 10: what the same old tariff that we did for ten years,

700
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 10: how do we make that different to meet the needs

701
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 10: of our time.

702
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 6: That's what I was wondering about.

703
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 5: Being your own little power generator, like partnering with a

704
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 5: company and having its own your own nuclear power station,

705
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 5: for example, to power that data center. Is that something

706
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 5: that we're going to see that kind of model.

707
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 10: I think we're exploring absolutely all options. As you've seen,

708
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 10: it's been very hard to grow nuclear in this country,

709
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 10: so we have to look at that and we're hoping

710
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 10: that's one of the technologies we're absolutely looking at in

711
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 10: this partnership with Microsoft and New course.

712
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 6: Have you had to be turned away at all?

713
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 5: Like have you like been sourcing an area and then

714
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 5: you talk to the utility and until he's like, I

715
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 5: can't do this for you.

716
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 6: I'm sorry. Is that happened yet? I think it's more.

717
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 10: You know, I like to talk about the grid and

718
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 10: meeting capacity is you can do it with time. So

719
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 10: it's just a matter of when do you need to

720
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 10: serve load versus how quickly can you build whatever it is,

721
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 10: transmission or generation to serve that load. And so what

722
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 10: we have found is maybe we can't always meet our

723
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 10: time schedules on the time that we would like, and

724
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 10: so we have to look at a tion that's interesting.

725
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 3: How's the US grid versus others you've seen around the world.

726
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 10: Oh boy, that is a big question that we do

727
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 10: not have time today. Well, first of all, the US

728
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 10: is it one grid, as you know, it's minigrids and

729
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 10: so I think in explaining that to people, it's hard

730
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 10: for them to understand. Again, you have a mix of

731
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,399
Speaker 10: everything here in the US, which is very different when

732
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 10: we talk about the rest of the world.

733
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 3: We talk about Europe.

734
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 10: Europe is a really interesting integrated system because you're actually

735
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 10: going cross countries and I think it actually there's a

736
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 10: lot of things that work really well there within our

737
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 10: own country. We have trouble going across states y Okay

738
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 10: and building that transmission to deliver the generation to where

739
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 10: the loads are actually located. So I think that's some

740
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,839
Speaker 10: of the interesting challenges other places in the world. Each

741
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 10: country really has its own unique system. It's only Europe

742
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 10: that you really see that multi country grid really playing out.

743
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 6: Something that works for Europe.

744
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 5: Honestly, that's something you're usually known here before we let

745
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 5: you go. When you talk about sort of the advanced

746
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 5: clean technology and how you're working with Microsoft and new Core,

747
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 5: what do you think those advanced clean technologies are.

748
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 10: Yeah, there's a number of them. We talked about maybe

749
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 10: seeing advanced nuclear. We already last year just had our

750
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 10: first enhanced geothermal extraction project come online with Ferbo here

751
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 10: in the US, and so we're buying energy from that project.

752
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 10: We're also looking at new texts, including carbon sequestration. It's

753
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 10: going to have to be part of the solution in

754
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 10: our view, and we continue to look at hydrogen and

755
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 10: in long duration energy storage.

756
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 6: So interesting, Amanda, Thank you so much.

757
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 5: Madam Peterson COOREO, Global head of Data Center Energy over

758
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 5: at Google.

759
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 6: You don't get much sleep, do you?

760
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 3: I do not.

761
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 6: Actually I took a red eye here, so.

762
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 3: Oh, there we go.

763
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 6: Okay, I was just kidding, but I guess that's true.

764
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 5: That's just so interesting because I feel like when I

765
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 5: talk to my energy guys, you need these guys. You

766
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 5: need big tech companies to say take this seriously or

767
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 5: else it's gonna be very hard to move the needle.

768
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 3: So what is your summer book going to be? The Grid?

769
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 6: The Grid, The Grid. I will read it and we

770
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 6: will compare notes.

771
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 2: Yes, the could talk to now, we could talk to Amanda,

772
00:37:58,200 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 2: like at a little higher level.

773
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 6: Okay, we'll do that. We'll do that.

774
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 3: It's actually a pretty good grid.

775
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 2: I learned a lot about electricity in the United States.

776
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Catch us live

777
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: weekdays at ten am Eastern on applecar Play and Android

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779
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780
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,280
Speaker 1: just say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.

781
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 5: I'm Alexi alongside paulse meeting. We are at Bloomberg Intelligence

782
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 5: Radio and we are live in an Intercontinental hotel right

783
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 5: here in Midtown Manhattan for Bloomberg an ef summit where

784
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 5: we talk to all the leaders and policymakers and CEOs

785
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 5: and how we get from where we are now and

786
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 5: then to decarbonize in the next three decades. Well, joining

787
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,240
Speaker 5: us now is a very special guest, Ethan Zindler, Climate

788
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 5: Counselor for the US Department of Treasury, which is already cool.

789
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 5: But the cooler part is he used to work at

790
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 5: Bloomberg an EF and it's been a while, so they've

791
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 5: seen you.

792
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 6: How are you?

793
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 9: I'm good? How are you?

794
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 6: How's your different job in DC?

795
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 9: It's definitely different.

796
00:38:58,040 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 3: But it's great.

797
00:38:58,719 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 6: Do they have snacks like they did?

798
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 9: I bring bags of almonds.

799
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 3: In from time to time. He doesn't get them, which

800
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:05,879
Speaker 3: we share.

801
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,399
Speaker 6: Well, that's one that's so nice. All right, So let's

802
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 6: talk about what you're working on right now.

803
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 5: What is your job as a climate counselor to the

804
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 5: US Department of Treasury.

805
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 9: So you know, the Treasury Department is across a lot

806
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 9: of different things in the climate space, and we have

807
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 9: multiple divisions that are working on things everything from the

808
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 9: International Affairs Office, Domestic Finance Office. We have a Federal

809
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 9: Insurance Office that thinks about some of these climate issues

810
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 9: as well. So my job really is to try to

811
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 9: coordinate some of those activities across the department, to collaborate

812
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,359
Speaker 9: on some of the key issues, and most often that's

813
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 9: been on the Inflation Reduction Act, but other things as well,

814
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 9: and also to provide some council to the Secretary, as

815
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 9: the title implies, on some of these key issues.

816
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 2: What are the key issues you guys are focusing on now?

817
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 2: What are the most important mandates right now as we

818
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 2: try to navigate this change.

819
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 9: Yeah, so there's a lot of things going on, but

820
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 9: certainly the implementation of the Inflation Reduction Act as front

821
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 9: and center for US Treasury a good deal, and the

822
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 9: majority of the funds overall that are aimed at clean

823
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 9: and green initiatives would go through the tax code with

824
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 9: all the rules written and implemented over time, and so

825
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 9: a lot of what we spent our time on doing

826
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 9: is writing some of those rules. So that's one thing.

827
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 9: Other things, indeed, on the international front, working with some

828
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,760
Speaker 9: of our partners and some of the multilateral development banks

829
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 9: on some of the work that they're doing around evolution

830
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 9: and thinking more around climate issues. The Treasury also works

831
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 9: very closely with the Green Climate Fund and the other

832
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 9: funds that are focused on multi climate development, so working

833
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 9: with them on that stuff. And then finally, maybe one

834
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 9: last topics on insurance, which you've been doing a lot

835
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 9: of work and thinking about as well.

836
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 5: So let's go the IRA for a moment, because the

837
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 5: big hubblebloo was about hydrogen for a little while, so

838
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 5: was how do you qualify for the hydrogen tax credit.

839
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 5: Does a hydrogen need to come from clean energy? Can

840
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 5: it be sort of carbon captured natural gas or can

841
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 5: it be to straight up natural gas? That part of

842
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 5: it sort of skated by, okay, But then everyone started

843
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 5: talking about how you qualified clean energy when it comes

844
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 5: to hydrogen an hour for hour or like sort of

845
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 5: a yearly base load, and that was a big deal

846
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 5: for a lot of these producers. And talk me through

847
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 5: how you guys thought about it, would you think about it?

848
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 6: What the problem was?

849
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 3: Sure?

850
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 9: So first I'm going to stop and take credit for

851
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 9: the fact that the IRA is, to be clear, the

852
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 9: most important piece of climate legislation ever passed in the

853
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,800
Speaker 9: United States, and the level of investment that we've seen

854
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 9: overall has been really pretty terrific. Two hundred and fifty

855
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:32,800
Speaker 9: billion by one count in the first twelve months after

856
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 9: it passed, and we've seen over six hundred billion in

857
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 9: manufacturing since the start of this term. On the specifics

858
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 9: of the forty five V Hydrogen Tax Credit, look, the

859
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 9: way we wrote the rules, and to be clear, a

860
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 9: draft version of the rule and we've drafted it, was

861
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:53,320
Speaker 9: that we effectively took our Q entirely from the law,

862
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 9: and the law is very clear about saying that you

863
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 9: had to think about what CO two emissions were and

864
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 9: referenced the clean air. It also referenced not to get

865
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 9: too wonky, a particular model for tracking emissions called the

866
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,840
Speaker 9: Greek model, and so we really wrote our draft guidance

867
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 9: to be as compliant with that as we could, and

868
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 9: that included taking into account what we called induced emissions,

869
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 9: that's emissions that might be created by taking some of

870
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 9: existing zero carbon generation and allocating it to something else.

871
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 9: So we really sought to be, you know, as clear

872
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,760
Speaker 9: as we could. But again, to be clear, it's draft guidance,

873
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 9: and we've certainly received comments. We've received I would say

874
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 9: no less than thirty thousand comments plast I checked. So

875
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 9: we're working our way through those and standby will eventually

876
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 9: have the final rule drafted this this year.

877
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 2: So Ethan, as we make this transition to a cleaner

878
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 2: sourcing of energy, one of the objectives I think is

879
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 2: to reduce reliance on China and maybe some other folks

880
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 2: around the world and maybe Onshore or Friendshire more of

881
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:55,640
Speaker 2: our energy infrastructure.

882
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:57,399
Speaker 3: How does that factor into your work?

883
00:42:58,040 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 9: Quite a lot, I mean, and I think it's something

884
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 9: that the second Scretary has been very out front on.

885
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 9: I was with her last month in Chile where we

886
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 9: were having conversations with government leaders there about some of

887
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 9: the opportunities around so called French shoring, and we visited

888
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 9: a lithium hydroxide processing plant where those that lithium is

889
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 9: being exported to the US and elsewhere to make batteries.

890
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 9: We are also the Secretary has also had some very directing,

891
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 9: candid conversations with Chinese leadership and just got back from

892
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 9: Beijing last Wednesday, and these issues around over supply and

893
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 9: ore for capacity or things that have come up. But

894
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,120
Speaker 9: it's also our view that it's a very important and

895
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,359
Speaker 9: productive to continue to have conversations, and so actually at

896
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 9: this literally almost at this very moment, we're continuing with

897
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 9: those back at the Treasury Department through two working groups

898
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 9: that we have ongoing with the Chinese to continue those conversations.

899
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 5: I was at an energy function in Houston a couple

900
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 5: of weeks ago and Secretary of Grand Home was there

901
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 5: and she was basically like, guys, there is money in DC,

902
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 5: come get it. Are we spending too much money in

903
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 5: a short of amount of time, like, not that we

904
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 5: don't need the money over time, but there's a condensed

905
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 5: period with which it can be spent. Are you worried

906
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 5: about throwing money into bad stuff for things that aren't

907
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 5: going to get the job done? Are things that not

908
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 5: going to return as much?

909
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 9: I would just say this that I think this is

910
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 9: a really critical and important time. I think the Inflation

911
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 9: Reduction Act has created an inflection point where we have

912
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 9: an opportunity now to be supportive of these technologies in

913
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 9: the way we've never done before. And it's important that

914
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 9: we see that going forward. And I think we feel

915
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 9: pretty good that we're doing that.

916
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 3: At this point.

917
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 9: There's a lot more work to be done, and to

918
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 9: be honest with you, we're working around the clock the

919
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,879
Speaker 9: rest of this year and beyond. But no, I think

920
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 9: that this is a unique opportunity. And look that the

921
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 9: clock's not you know, the clock's not getting any quieter

922
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 9: on climate change, and we really need to have these

923
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 9: technologies developed further and deployed further, particularly some of the

924
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 9: ones and the harder to decarbonized sectors like industrial processes.

925
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 2: Ethan just thirty seconds, what's the next mile post? People

926
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 2: like me should be looking for people that don't track

927
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:01,399
Speaker 2: this every day.

928
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:03,280
Speaker 3: Good question.

929
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 9: I mean, I think you know, we work in increments,

930
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 9: I guess of the Treasury Department, where you're kind of

931
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 9: on a day to day basis trying to get as

932
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 9: much out as we can. I think I certainly would

933
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,800
Speaker 9: want to keep an eye on the levels of private

934
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 9: capital flows. And like I said, we feel quite good

935
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 9: about that and we want to see more of that

936
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 9: going forward. There was a lot raised by venture funds

937
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 9: several years ago. I think we'd like to see more

938
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 9: of that investment taking place. We'd like to continue to

939
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 9: see financial institutions think about how they can take into

940
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,799
Speaker 9: account the energy transition. But I wish I could pick

941
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 9: a single moment, but we're kind of working data down.

942
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 3: It's a big story.

943
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 5: Arthin thanks a lot. It's so good to see you

944
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 5: in a different role. Really good to catch up with you.

945
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 5: We give Smiler from the Treasury Department. He is a

946
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 5: Climate counselor the West Treasury Department, formerly of Bloomberg and

947
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 5: ef YEP.

948
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 2: That's right enough here at the Enough conference here in

949
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 2: midtown Manhattan, talk about the transition to cleaner energy.

950
00:45:56,120 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Intelligence Podcast. Available on Apple, Spotify,

951
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,040
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952
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:08,840
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953
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,640
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954
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:15,080
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955
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:16,160
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