Speaker 1: Citizen Chef is a production of I Heart Radio. You
Speaker 1: can sell marijuana, you can sell edibles. Can you do infusions?
Speaker 1: Or we couldn't do infusions. All edibles had to be prepackaged. God,
Speaker 1: everything has to be prepackaged. How do you six? You
Speaker 1: can because it's a measured dose, right. Yes, it sounds
Speaker 1: to be pretty stramped like a normal restaurant, except you can, guy,
Speaker 1: it was absolutely a normal setting. You know. It was
Speaker 1: beautiful to be honest with you. Hey, everyone, welcome back
Speaker 1: to Citizen Chef. Today's episode is so exciting because we
Speaker 1: are talking about a new frontier in fine dining. Not
Speaker 1: only does today's topic inspired creative new interpretations in the
Speaker 1: restaurant and hospitality industry along with a totally different way
Speaker 1: to experience your food with the side helping of social justice,
Speaker 1: the pioneers in this field are making sure that there
Speaker 1: are new pathways to capital, not just for the entrepreneurs,
Speaker 1: but for all of those who have been wrong by
Speaker 1: overregulation in the past. I am talking, of course, about cannabis,
Speaker 1: and so today we get to talk to two of
Speaker 1: those pioneers. Jeff Andrea Drummer is the woman behind the
Speaker 1: original Cannabis cafe in West Hollywood, which is the first
Speaker 1: cafe that to say license to serve cannabis along with
Speaker 1: its menu. And we're going to talk to her about
Speaker 1: the process of getting that license and the hurdles that
Speaker 1: she had to jump through, and how exactly orchestrate pairings
Speaker 1: so that I feel it's more like ordering from a
Speaker 1: soma is opposed to a liquor store. We're also going
Speaker 1: to talk to Senator Kim Jackson of Georgia, who was
Speaker 1: elected to the state Senate this year. She co sponsored
Speaker 1: the bill to a men the States Constitution to legalize
Speaker 1: recreational consumption all under the larger mission of criminal justice reform.
Speaker 1: She helps to remind us that this is about more
Speaker 1: than just enjoying a nice buzz with our burgers and nachos.
Speaker 1: So please join me as we get in the weeds.
Speaker 1: U pun absolutely intended of cannabis and its new role
Speaker 1: in the restaurant industry. Andrea, how you doing. I've got
Speaker 1: so many questions to ask you. This is crazy. So
Speaker 1: you may know New York State legalized cannabis and the
Speaker 1: first thing that came to mind was they're allowing cafes.
Speaker 1: I was like, I gotta figure how to get one
Speaker 1: of these. This is like, gotta do this and call
Speaker 1: them some people. You know, it's gonna take a few years.
Speaker 1: I just kind of started kicking around and seeing what
Speaker 1: was going on out there. And it was really funny
Speaker 1: because I was shooting season seventeen of Top twelve in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, and looking back on it now, it dawned
Speaker 1: at me that opening night I drove by. I looked
Speaker 1: to my left and I was like, what is going
Speaker 1: on there? What are they giving away at that place?
Speaker 1: And I had no idea what it was. A few
Speaker 1: days later I asked someone. They told me that, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a canapis restaurant cafe that just opened up. So
Speaker 1: I guess I was driving by opening day and and
Speaker 1: so you know, it's one of these things where it
Speaker 1: happens and you file it away, and then you know
Speaker 1: two years later it's like, oh, that's what was, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what that was. What is that thing that you're
Speaker 1: doing there? This is a place where you can go
Speaker 1: and unwind, smoker and jest, eat great food, have a coffee,
Speaker 1: relaxed and just chill. And yet I guess it's a
Speaker 1: hard path for this to happen. Yeah, so that the
Speaker 1: first question like why did you want to do this?
Speaker 1: And how long did it take it? What were the
Speaker 1: hooks and licensees to jump through? I want to learn
Speaker 1: all that, partly because I'm thinking of doing it. You
Speaker 1: should as you should. Interestingly enough, some years ago I
Speaker 1: did a consultancy with the James Nomad in Manhattan and
Speaker 1: I got them through a CBD menu for an in
Speaker 1: room dining experience, and it was going really well, and
Speaker 1: that got shut down. And this was probably about three
Speaker 1: or four years ago. Fast forward, and here we are
Speaker 1: in West Hollywood, and what we did was lobby the
Speaker 1: city of West Hollywood to you know, permit these licensings
Speaker 1: for on site consumption. It was a wild go, but
Speaker 1: they were very open for that experience for so many reasons,
Speaker 1: including tourism, attraction and just you know, normalizing conversation about
Speaker 1: cannabis consumption and thereby changing other laws. So we did that,
Speaker 1: lobb beat them, and then once they agreed to do it,
Speaker 1: there was a process of submitting application. There are only
Speaker 1: eight licenses permitted. All those eight licenses, right, most of
Speaker 1: them also offering a high end dining series. Yeah, already
Speaker 1: these open already of these actually functioning right now beside yours.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately none of them were able to come to bear
Speaker 1: because of COVID. They were set to come online. I
Speaker 1: was absolutely looking forward to it, as we all were.
Speaker 1: Any entity participating in this. This thing is helpful to
Speaker 1: the community. So hopefully we'll be able to see those
Speaker 1: happened come through in the future. So you had to
Speaker 1: jump through some hoops just to get open. You're allowed
Speaker 1: to consume on premise, but she couldn't serve food and
Speaker 1: alcohol where you're consuming, And how did you work around that?
Speaker 1: It is absolutely work around being the operative words. So
Speaker 1: we kind of had to split the cafe into two entities,
Speaker 1: one being a food service component and the other being
Speaker 1: essentially a dispensary. And the way that the cafe was
Speaker 1: set up it worked out in our favor. I think
Speaker 1: in the future as we delve into these conversations and
Speaker 1: we get the right people having the conversations, yourself included
Speaker 1: to understand one. You know, we were the first to
Speaker 1: bring it to bear, and so no one really knew
Speaker 1: what that looked like. And now that we have a
Speaker 1: broader scope of what that should look like and how
Speaker 1: to integrate it into just regular day to day life,
Speaker 1: which is no different than ordering a bottle of wine.
Speaker 1: I think we could very well communicate that and get
Speaker 1: these policies and these ideals changed about you know, having
Speaker 1: to separate the entities in etcetera, etcetera, because it's really
Speaker 1: just an everyday experience. It's just life. So obviously you're
Speaker 1: an advocate for cannabis. Were you always aving for cannabis?
Speaker 1: Absolutely not? Okay, absolutely Sometimes I feel like epigrite, but
Speaker 1: I like to ouch it under the guise of being reformed.
Speaker 1: I was once a prevention counselor was the first part
Speaker 1: of my career, and worked in on profit for many years.
Speaker 1: And my whole spield was cannabis as the gateway drug
Speaker 1: and therefore you should not consume. You will either end
Speaker 1: up in prison or on skid rock. It was moving
Speaker 1: to California and kind of educating myself and learning more
Speaker 1: about cannabis and you know, not judging it is. Was
Speaker 1: there one specific, Aham and it was a series of things.
Speaker 1: At one point I worked for an advocate who was
Speaker 1: an attorney and he was also a consumer and I thought, oh,
Speaker 1: this this man is brilliant. We have great conversations. He's
Speaker 1: going to court and winning his cases, so it can't
Speaker 1: be that bad, right, And again there was the educational component,
Speaker 1: understanding the propaganda and how myself I was used to
Speaker 1: push that agenda, understanding how the war on drugs led
Speaker 1: to mass incarceration, and so there was a paradigm shift there,
Speaker 1: and so I was just kind of open and everything
Speaker 1: was ripe. And then switching gears and getting into the
Speaker 1: culinary industry and how that took a toll on my
Speaker 1: body and deciding for myself to become a patient of
Speaker 1: medical marijuana. Did you start advocating before you became a chef?
Speaker 1: Where you were you advocating for cannabis rights? And when
Speaker 1: I mean you touch a little bit on and car
Speaker 1: sharrace rates for small fraction like marijuana. Was that something
Speaker 1: that you were advocated for before you started cooking? Or
Speaker 1: coincide in a small capacity, but more or less it
Speaker 1: did coincide with the transition of careers again, going into
Speaker 1: the culinary industry and having this having an impact on
Speaker 1: my body and making the decision for myself to medicate
Speaker 1: using medicinal cannabis and then understanding that you know, I
Speaker 1: live in a state. That's twenty two plus years out
Speaker 1: in legalization for medical marijuana, look no less and I
Speaker 1: could still lose my livelihood, you know, And it did
Speaker 1: make sense to me. So that's when the work began.
Speaker 1: If you work for my friend Neil Frasier, is that right?
Speaker 1: I did? I did? That was pretty phenomenal. How long
Speaker 1: into your chef's career where you and this happened two
Speaker 1: years in that about sciatica and I decided to go
Speaker 1: the route of infusing food and in two thousand and
Speaker 1: twelve that was That was a turn about for me
Speaker 1: and I've been on my own since that. So many
Speaker 1: people don't understand if legalized marijuana and there's there's greater access,
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe you can get people off opiates. Oh,
Speaker 1: absolutely absolutely. It's the absolute opposite of being the gateway drug.
Speaker 1: Her listeners understand this. You can sell marijuana, you can
Speaker 1: sell edibles, correct infusions? Can you do infusions? Or we
Speaker 1: couldn't do infusions? All edibles had to be prepackaged. God,
Speaker 1: everything has to be prepackaged. Um, so you couldn't use
Speaker 1: like honey sticks and things like that as it honey sticks. Yes,
Speaker 1: how do you thinks you can't because it's a measured dose, right, correct, Yeah,
Speaker 1: got it. Now we know why. So to get into
Speaker 1: how tell us more about the actual experience of visiting
Speaker 1: the original cannabis cafe. It sounds to be pretty stramped
Speaker 1: like a normal restaurant, except you can it was absolutely
Speaker 1: a normal setting, you know, and it was Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was beautiful, to be honest with you. It's an absolute
Speaker 1: stunning just you know, a cafe that you would walk
Speaker 1: into in any given city that just happens to have
Speaker 1: cannabis and had, you know, a separate cannabis menu, and
Speaker 1: when you got bud tenders, someone was bringing over buds
Speaker 1: and and so there's a lot of it's education. You know,
Speaker 1: whenever I go into a store, a part of so
Speaker 1: much part of the experience is the education part of it. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: it's more than here, take a bag and you know,
Speaker 1: going your way. Yeah, for sure, absolutely. And one of
Speaker 1: the exciting things for me was that we were creating
Speaker 1: new industry under the umbrella of this cafe. And so
Speaker 1: you know, our servers had to be versed as bud
Speaker 1: tenders as well, and then they and they as well,
Speaker 1: they had to learn to be efficient servers. So that
Speaker 1: comes with a new understanding. But yeah, us they were
Speaker 1: very efficient and understanding cannabis and had to relay this
Speaker 1: to the guests. So you have to explain the dose city,
Speaker 1: to explain the different strains and how it's going to affect. You,
Speaker 1: understand the guests and their preferences and their tolerance level, etcetera. Right,
Speaker 1: So this is all waiters is there responsibility just to again,
Speaker 1: like you would sell a menu or sell a wine.
Speaker 1: Understand th h levels, understand potency, Understand this is gonna
Speaker 1: last long, This is gonna you know, you can get
Speaker 1: sleepy from this one. This one's going to speech up.
Speaker 1: You know all of that information absolutely when you go
Speaker 1: in to a restaurant. He asked about the chicken, he
Speaker 1: said poland exactly right, right, so you you can you
Speaker 1: want to know, you know what what budger's looking, what
Speaker 1: farmers from farmers from, how it sours, how it's grown outdoor, indoor,
Speaker 1: organic or otherwise, how long the company has been in existence. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all of those great things. And it's important for the
Speaker 1: guests to fill a sense of comfort because this is
Speaker 1: the first thing that's the first of it's kind. And
Speaker 1: so someone who just got in from Kentucky or drove
Speaker 1: in from the Bay Area. You know, they want to
Speaker 1: have a sense of comfort and know that the servers
Speaker 1: have their back and can explain in depth what the
Speaker 1: experience maybe right, and so some of the other screens
Speaker 1: where the offering seems a little i would say, pretentious,
Speaker 1: just a little more trying to sell us upscale as
Speaker 1: opposed to food that is cravable. You know, you get
Speaker 1: cannabis induced cravings and you want to just you know,
Speaker 1: you want food that is is yummy, delicious and comfortable,
Speaker 1: but you certainly don't need a kind of crazy upscale,
Speaker 1: fancy setting. And it sounds like that's where you're providing
Speaker 1: a great experience that I think people want absolutely. You know,
Speaker 1: I wanted to create a menu that was just great food,
Speaker 1: cravable and complementary of the cannabis experience. So you know,
Speaker 1: that's a lot of innovative as well. But you know,
Speaker 1: we have vegan nachos, which was one of the most
Speaker 1: popular menu items. You're great burgers, but you know, sourced
Speaker 1: appropriately again match the experience of cannabis. You know, we
Speaker 1: use local farmers, local growers, cannabis users take care about
Speaker 1: the budget spores, but did you get a sense of
Speaker 1: at a deeper level, they care about the environment, they
Speaker 1: care about how their food has produced. Yeah. Absolutely, And
Speaker 1: we're here in California, so you have a lot of
Speaker 1: pures here with regards to their consumption of cannabis. And
Speaker 1: we'll see how that planes out accross the nation because
Speaker 1: we have had the freedom here in California to grow
Speaker 1: and what one might say appropriately or freely, you know,
Speaker 1: without harming the plant. So I think in due time
Speaker 1: will have federal legalization where we could exchange product if
Speaker 1: you will, and exactly, you know, it makes sense to me.
Speaker 1: This is this is part of the farm to table
Speaker 1: movement when when you think about it, right, oh, absolutely,
Speaker 1: I can't imagine living in a state where we don't
Speaker 1: have that level of legalization and that freedom to grow
Speaker 1: and source appropriately. And a great part of my work
Speaker 1: is to see that happen on a global scale. So
Speaker 1: you're certainly not the only one. And just a little
Speaker 1: bit we'll talk to a senator working to make that
Speaker 1: reality for many people who are not lucky enough to
Speaker 1: live in a state like California. But first I have
Speaker 1: a few more questions for Chef Andrea about what it's
Speaker 1: like to be both an advocate and a chef. Also,
Speaker 1: if you already have the munchies, don't worry. We're going
Speaker 1: to dig it to the food as well. We'll be
Speaker 1: back with more citizen chefs. Welcome back. You're listening to
Speaker 1: Citizen Chef and I'm Tom Collikio, and we are talking
Speaker 1: about cannabis regulation in restaurants. Would work are in California
Speaker 1: doing our are on a federal level right now in
Speaker 1: terms of lobbying local governments federal governments. Are you working
Speaker 1: on that as those issues as well? We have been
Speaker 1: We've tried. You know, when I first got into the industry,
Speaker 1: part of my work was aligning with Drug Policy Alliance
Speaker 1: and getting Top six before passed. We're still making a
Speaker 1: stink unfortunately, you know, we're you know, at the home
Speaker 1: of an administration that you know, spoke about legalization federally
Speaker 1: on a federal level, but I have not really addressed
Speaker 1: the issues or kind of skirted around it. So I
Speaker 1: don't know that we still have to continue to make
Speaker 1: noise and more people that we get involved in these
Speaker 1: conversations and to lobby in every city, in every place.
Speaker 1: I think the more movement, more traction we can make.
Speaker 1: I think it's coming. I mean, I think you can't
Speaker 1: ignore it. No, absolutely not. No, I mean I love it.
Speaker 1: John Bayner, who was the Speaker of the House, who
Speaker 1: was dead set against it, is now on the board
Speaker 1: of a cannabis company, and uh so, yeah, it's you
Speaker 1: can feel different ways about these things, you know, especially
Speaker 1: as a as a black woman in this industry. But
Speaker 1: you know, all of it is good movement. And when
Speaker 1: I when I started out, I was called crazy that
Speaker 1: I even considered that there could be a cannabis cafe
Speaker 1: or restaurant. The more we keep up and be more
Speaker 1: vocal about it and link arms in this movement of
Speaker 1: globally regalization and not just here in this country. But
Speaker 1: you know, the two thousand nineteen we opened the cannabis cafe,
Speaker 1: the first of its kind, so it could happen, and
Speaker 1: I have hoped that it will. Yeah. So it's interesting
Speaker 1: though it sounds like what you're actually asking for could
Speaker 1: make it where your business isn't as unique anymore. If
Speaker 1: you're able to smoke openly, you could just step out
Speaker 1: out of any restaurant and you know, take your hits
Speaker 1: and go back and tide. If it's that normalized, that
Speaker 1: normalized means prison reform, that normalized means expungement for people,
Speaker 1: the true pioneers of this industry, So that all of
Speaker 1: that is important and right, that's all part of it.
Speaker 1: It's right. So your advocacy obviously goes a lot deeper
Speaker 1: than just making sure a few restaurants can current administration
Speaker 1: has talked about it, although you know President By didn't
Speaker 1: run on it when asked, it was opposed, but it
Speaker 1: wasn't part of his platform. Do you think we have
Speaker 1: to wait till maybe President Harris are than sort of
Speaker 1: the next Democrat possibly, or do you think you can
Speaker 1: possibly get federal adaptation this administration? When this administration was
Speaker 1: ushered in, I was hopeful. Conversely, some of the conversations
Speaker 1: I've heard around it is kind of back pedaled or
Speaker 1: or to say that we're going to set this aside
Speaker 1: for an hour. We're unable to address this thing. I
Speaker 1: think it may take the next Democratic administration. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Hopefully there's a turn about that's not going to stop
Speaker 1: anyone who's who's making noise and who's doing the work.
Speaker 1: So you know, it sounds like the legalization of candadis
Speaker 1: on a federal level just needs to be more probably
Speaker 1: won't be a single voter issue, but it's got to
Speaker 1: be higher up there. Yes, absolutely, Yeah, I think you're
Speaker 1: going about the right way where economic comparative, there's also
Speaker 1: again the the justice, the social justice issue around what
Speaker 1: you're fighting for, which seems to be even probably more
Speaker 1: important than the actual cafe itself. Yes, in the restaurant,
Speaker 1: is there literature about what you're doing on the other
Speaker 1: side of it? Are you building out the community of
Speaker 1: full legalization in the restaurant? Is that part of the mission?
Speaker 1: You know, when we first started this and initiate our application,
Speaker 1: all of those things were written into that, right, But
Speaker 1: the reality is, you know, when you get into the
Speaker 1: restaurant es you got to figure out a lot of things,
Speaker 1: you know, especially especially the last year exactly. But I
Speaker 1: think now that we kind of got a handle on
Speaker 1: what it looks like, and I think there could absolutely
Speaker 1: be a focus on these very specific details, you know.
Speaker 1: I know one of our goals was hired some you know,
Speaker 1: people that had their records expunge or that we're re
Speaker 1: entering the space with non violent cannabis in fractions, if
Speaker 1: you will, so a lot of things that can be done.
Speaker 1: We just have to figure out, you know we I mean,
Speaker 1: we were talking about systems of how to order, so
Speaker 1: how to order food versus cannabis, and how to you know,
Speaker 1: you know, maintain the letter of the law. So the
Speaker 1: crazy stuff. You have to do a lot of workarounds.
Speaker 1: We were, we were creative. We were like building doors,
Speaker 1: closing doors, closing entrances, you have to go outside to
Speaker 1: go to the restauranom. Yeah, it's a lot of it was.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of things. But again, you know,
Speaker 1: we've been in the in the mix, in the thick up,
Speaker 1: so there's a greater understanding. And I also believe like
Speaker 1: the city of West Hollywood, being able to come there
Speaker 1: and see what it looks like and you're not like,
Speaker 1: you know, envisioning or imagining this thing in your head
Speaker 1: or thinking that there are people spilling out of the
Speaker 1: building high and fighting. And we had zero physical or
Speaker 1: violent incidents. That's a tame night in West Hollywood. Open
Speaker 1: a bar and and and stake that claim. Let me
Speaker 1: know how it goes, right. I drove by almost every day,
Speaker 1: the cool thing, but I kept saying, please, just looks great.
Speaker 1: I want to go in there, and you know that
Speaker 1: was working most nights, so I didn't get a chance,
Speaker 1: but I wish you had next time. I am in California,
Speaker 1: which I'm not sure I have a restaurant. I haven't
Speaker 1: been in a while because of COVID, but I will
Speaker 1: definitely check it out. I want to check out the food.
Speaker 1: Tell me about food. Tell me what are you what
Speaker 1: are you doing there? I mean I saw some of
Speaker 1: the menu. You talked about Vigano to talk about burgers,
Speaker 1: but what other credible items are there? I mean, what
Speaker 1: could people expect when they go into the restaurant. Just
Speaker 1: so our listeners can understand what they're in for when
Speaker 1: they go to it's now called the Original Cannabis Cafe.
Speaker 1: One of the draws was absolutely the brunch menu, port
Speaker 1: billion grits and chuck shuka, you know, some of some
Speaker 1: of the fun menu items. The go to a lot
Speaker 1: of shared plates, so it made it was a good time.
Speaker 1: It's a great time to be creative and to think
Speaker 1: about the farm to table on both aspects. You know,
Speaker 1: it was a kind of a separate you know, you know,
Speaker 1: we had the kitchen going and then you had the
Speaker 1: Cannabis experience, but to collaborate with the front of the
Speaker 1: house and do pairings as well. So we of course
Speaker 1: couldn't infuse the food, but I could take a menu
Speaker 1: item and pair it with a new product that was
Speaker 1: coming out of the dispensary and explain why that pairing
Speaker 1: works by the flavor profiles and the turpenes. All right,
Speaker 1: so let's get back into food. Who are some of
Speaker 1: your culinary heroes when you were in school or thinking
Speaker 1: about cooking, Who who did you look up to? You know,
Speaker 1: I have to say, for very reasons Grant Ackets hearing
Speaker 1: his story about tongue cancer and having to use all
Speaker 1: of your senses to cook. I think that kind of
Speaker 1: gets lost, you know, especially when you're culinary school or
Speaker 1: taste everything, taste everything, and sometimes you know, you get
Speaker 1: in the weeds. Maybe you can't, but for me having
Speaker 1: to really um and at one point there was like
Speaker 1: a two year period that I was completely vegan. But
Speaker 1: I'm cooking for constituents that ate lots of meat and
Speaker 1: so having to put that into practice. But just being
Speaker 1: so in tune with all of your senses when you cook,
Speaker 1: I think is so important and sometimes get lost with us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was talking about using your sense of hearing. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: listening to this all you know, you can tell if
Speaker 1: something's cooking too hard, too fast, if it's doin too
Speaker 1: hard too fast. And I teach class I often talk
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah. Absolutely, So what's next? Do you see
Speaker 1: another cafe? Can you do multiple cafes and they're more
Speaker 1: licenses or granted? I mean, do you see going out
Speaker 1: of California if you can in doing more in other states?
Speaker 1: So what's the future for you. One of the things
Speaker 1: that that we were able to do is lobby. The
Speaker 1: city was Hollywood. I think there are other cities, other
Speaker 1: places that would be interested in in hearing about these ideals.
Speaker 1: And prior to COVID, I was in communication with one
Speaker 1: of those cities, Palm Springs, and they were interested in
Speaker 1: bringing something to bear. I see a limitations on where
Speaker 1: this could go. In fact, what we were looking to
Speaker 1: do is open one of the first cannabis inspired hotels,
Speaker 1: Boutique Hotel, and I still want to see that come
Speaker 1: to bear. But COVID hit and investors got a little skittish, understandable,
Speaker 1: But I don't I don't see any uh, I don't
Speaker 1: see any limitations. I and I've always said this from
Speaker 1: two thousand and twelve when I got in industry. I
Speaker 1: see cafes, I see restaurants, see spas, hotels, destination experiences.
Speaker 1: There was one of the entities are supposed to be
Speaker 1: like a gaming experience. I think it for as much
Speaker 1: as you could create or envision it could have happened.
Speaker 1: Anything outside of cannabis can happen under the umbrella. I mean,
Speaker 1: what you're talking about is is a lot of these experiences,
Speaker 1: whether it's spa or whether it's gaming, it can be
Speaker 1: enhanced by by the experience. Absolutely, it's not just an adjunct.
Speaker 1: It's not sort of, well, you have the experience, we're
Speaker 1: going to a spa and then you know you can
Speaker 1: get high to No, it's actually part of the experience. Yeah,
Speaker 1: do you have any recommendations for other chefs that are
Speaker 1: are looking to do this as a sort of state
Speaker 1: by state you've got to just figure it out. Of course,
Speaker 1: it's state by state. But first and foremost, you know,
Speaker 1: be an advocate, lobby understand just as any chef has
Speaker 1: to understand the product and how to source it and
Speaker 1: what it means to the experience, what it means to
Speaker 1: have on site consumption, what what what it's going to
Speaker 1: mean to the city. So be versed in that, go
Speaker 1: to the things and and lobby and advocate for what
Speaker 1: you want to see to come to bear in your city,
Speaker 1: and then just be bold enough to execute PRIs. I
Speaker 1: mean listen here, I am like a am near middle
Speaker 1: aged black woman having a conversation with Tom Collikio. So
Speaker 1: who's an older white dude. You know, I think we
Speaker 1: leave it at that. It's it's been great talking to you.
Speaker 1: And instead, if I'm in California, I'll definitely come and
Speaker 1: look you up. And uh, I would love to try
Speaker 1: your food, either stone or not. But this is a
Speaker 1: braving world and it's just you know, to me, it's
Speaker 1: fascinating who actually is the first mover here? Um and
Speaker 1: how it happened because it's not gonna be the last
Speaker 1: day we're gonna see cafes and I agree with you,
Speaker 1: I think they'll they'll be a time when this is
Speaker 1: normalized and you know, part of the just part of
Speaker 1: the scenery and part of the experience. Um So, but
Speaker 1: it's it's great too. It's great to be able to
Speaker 1: talk to the pioneer Ya. Thank you so much. Thank
Speaker 1: you for having me. Now that we have a sense
Speaker 1: of what it takes to be bold enough to make
Speaker 1: waves in the cannabis industry, we're gonna come right back
Speaker 1: with another pioneer working to make the same type of change,
Speaker 1: but in a different arena. Stick with us. Chief Drummer
Speaker 1: is such a pioneer in her field. But one thing
Speaker 1: that was so evident in both our research and in
Speaker 1: our conversation with her is that reforming the regulation of
Speaker 1: cannabis is such a larger issue than just allowing it
Speaker 1: into restaurants. This is especially true when you look at
Speaker 1: it from a national perspective, since it's not been legal
Speaker 1: as on a federal level yet. So we wanted to
Speaker 1: speak to someone on the front lines of fighting for
Speaker 1: reform in a state where marijuana is still illegal. We
Speaker 1: are so lucky to get to talk to Senator Kim Jackson,
Speaker 1: who was elected to the States Senate this year, and
Speaker 1: one of her first acts was co sponsoring a resolution
Speaker 1: paving the way to decriminalize cannabis. She's also been working
Speaker 1: on the Agriculture and Consumer Affairs committe to work on
Speaker 1: the state's practices surrounding him, and is just an all
Speaker 1: around great person to talk to you about the bigger
Speaker 1: picture when it comes to cannabis. Hi, We're thrilled to
Speaker 1: have you. You're already doing so much for the great
Speaker 1: state of Georgia, and I cannot wait to hear more
Speaker 1: about why the legalization of cannabis is so important to
Speaker 1: your platform. You can tell us a bit about yourself
Speaker 1: and your remarkable career even outside of being a state center,
Speaker 1: I serve Stone Mountain, Clarkson and Tucker in Georgia really
Speaker 1: great places for those of you who may not be
Speaker 1: from around these parts. When I'm not working as a Senator,
Speaker 1: which is kind of always, I also am an episcopal priest,
Speaker 1: and I have the great privilege of serving a congregation
Speaker 1: of people who are currently experiencing homelessness in downtown Atlanta.
Speaker 1: So when it comes to this topic of cannabis, I
Speaker 1: have a number of reasons why I'm deeply passionate and
Speaker 1: care about it. But one of the first reasons is
Speaker 1: because the people who attend my church have often found
Speaker 1: themselves caught up in a criminal justice system that quite
Speaker 1: frankly was in just particularly when it pertains to their
Speaker 1: use of cannabis. Jackson cites her own work as a
Speaker 1: priest as the key component in shaping the way she
Speaker 1: approaches cannabis. In particular, she notes the benefit of the
Speaker 1: plant for her constituents experiencing homelessness. My prissioners sleep outside.
Speaker 1: Many of them are folks who have been trying to
Speaker 1: find a way to kind of make it through really
Speaker 1: difficult times in life, and they do things to survive.
Speaker 1: They do things also to just relax and find themselves
Speaker 1: just some peace, and quite frankly, marijuana has been one
Speaker 1: of those sources of relaxation and peace when you're living
Speaker 1: in survival mode. Just being able to kind of sit
Speaker 1: back and relax and chill with some folks has been
Speaker 1: really helpful. And uh, and so I recognize that as
Speaker 1: a recreational analysists in some ways as a source of
Speaker 1: kind of soothing their souls in the midst of a
Speaker 1: really deeply difficult time in their lives. And so that's
Speaker 1: been a part of my own story of just watching
Speaker 1: and being in relationship with these folks who live outside,
Speaker 1: and as a past that's part of my job too,
Speaker 1: is to help soothe their soul, right, Like, that's really
Speaker 1: really part of my work. But I also recognize that
Speaker 1: they use cannabis for recreational purposes and for some soul healing.
Speaker 1: But also you know, I serve a district of people
Speaker 1: who lived just outside of Metro Atlanta. We are a
Speaker 1: majority African American district. The average age is only thirty
Speaker 1: two in my district. So we are young, and we
Speaker 1: are people of color, and so we enjoy finding ways
Speaker 1: to recreate with one another. So you're arguing about cannabis
Speaker 1: soothing the soul makes so much sense to me. Cannabis
Speaker 1: is definitely not the first tool people think of when
Speaker 1: they think of the work as a as a senator
Speaker 1: and a priest. But how do you reconcile people the
Speaker 1: view of the scripture and your own interpretation, and how
Speaker 1: does cannabis play into that. Yeah, So I like to
Speaker 1: remind people that the very first miracle that we have
Speaker 1: recorded of Jesus is that he goes to a party
Speaker 1: and he turns water into wine so that they can
Speaker 1: continue their party. For me, that is an incredible lesson
Speaker 1: and metaphor for the value of a party and the
Speaker 1: value of having some enhanced substances that helped to enjoy
Speaker 1: that party. Right, And I know some people will listen
Speaker 1: to this and sound like, Hey, this sounds like heresy,
Speaker 1: but I think that there's real legit evidence within scripture
Speaker 1: that talks about the use of natural substances, right, Like
Speaker 1: cannabis is a naturally occurring substance that God helped create. Right.
Speaker 1: And also, I'm really clear, and this is some of
Speaker 1: the work that I do with my parishioners is to
Speaker 1: talk about you know, God calls us to live a
Speaker 1: life of moderation and all things in moderation, right, And
Speaker 1: so I think that there's really great theological grounding for
Speaker 1: us being in that place. And and certainly if we
Speaker 1: look beyond kind of the traditional Christian religion, there are other, many,
Speaker 1: many examples of the use of psychedelics to help enhance
Speaker 1: people's spiritual experiences. You know, mushrooms like those are those
Speaker 1: are coming to the world of cooking light. Let's be clear,
Speaker 1: there's so so many tragedy sational religions across this this
Speaker 1: country and across the world that have used mushrooms in
Speaker 1: particular to enhance their relationship with the spirit in the
Speaker 1: spirit world. So cannabis has never adjument about recreation. It's
Speaker 1: not just about recreation or relaxation. It's also about healing,
Speaker 1: and I would make the argument as a pastor in
Speaker 1: the priest that that healing is not just physical, but
Speaker 1: there is a way in which we're able to connect
Speaker 1: spiritually in a deeper way, and that that has some
Speaker 1: spiritual healing aspects to it as well. Restaurants do they
Speaker 1: have a role in fighting the stigma against cannabis. One
Speaker 1: of the reasons why I think that having cannabis and
Speaker 1: restaurants is important is because it helps us in this
Speaker 1: process of destigmatizing the use of cannabis. So think about it.
Speaker 1: You go to a nice restaurant anywhere, and they're going
Speaker 1: to offer you wine to go with your meal because
Speaker 1: they understand that wine helps enhance the experience the flavors.
Speaker 1: You know. There there's all kinds of thought senses, And
Speaker 1: I'm not a chef, but I do know that there
Speaker 1: are people who think very intentionally about the pairing of
Speaker 1: a wine with a particular pasta, a particular meat, and
Speaker 1: the same thing could be true and should be true
Speaker 1: as it relates to marijuana and how it's infused in
Speaker 1: different foods. Uh So, I imagine a world where you
Speaker 1: go to a nice restaurant and you're offered wine, but
Speaker 1: you're also offered cannabis because that's a part of the
Speaker 1: process of enhancing the experience of the food, and it
Speaker 1: ultimately will do this work of helping to destigmatize the
Speaker 1: use of cannabis as a general use that people participate in.
Speaker 1: And so one of my goals with this podcast is
Speaker 1: to address the stigma that comes along with cannabis, especially
Speaker 1: as we discussed the potential benefits of the plant. You know,
Speaker 1: you mentioned the hurdle that you're facing in Georgia. So
Speaker 1: I was wondering if you could tell us a bit
Speaker 1: more about why these thigmas are in place and your
Speaker 1: goals with the bill that you preferred back in February.
Speaker 1: S R one six five was written by Shake Rahman.
Speaker 1: He is a state senator here. He's actually the only
Speaker 1: Muslim state senator here in Georgia. And so s R
Speaker 1: one simply creates a pathway for us to begin the
Speaker 1: process of decriminalizing marijuana. It's a resolution, so it wouldn't
Speaker 1: be a law, but it lays out the legal pathway
Speaker 1: for us to move in that direction. Now, again, we
Speaker 1: live in a very red state right now in terms
Speaker 1: of who's in power and because of the great stigma
Speaker 1: both religious and I think social and racist stigma connected
Speaker 1: to it. We don't believe that s R one sixty
Speaker 1: five will move, but it is a really clear signal
Speaker 1: to people that that's the direction that we that shake
Speaker 1: Raman and that I am moving in and I believe
Speaker 1: that we as a party, as Senate Democrats, are moving towards.
Speaker 1: Is the process of decriminalizing marijuana. Is this industry that
Speaker 1: literally starts to grow and it quits so many people
Speaker 1: who ended up incarcerated because if a marijuana charge. The
Speaker 1: irony would be that they're left out of the marijuana business,
Speaker 1: and not even that they're getting a license to grow,
Speaker 1: but that they're allowed to work either in the dispensary,
Speaker 1: are working on a farm, are working in the marketing
Speaker 1: of cannabis, being in the cannabis industry, and the irony
Speaker 1: that's that's someone who lost the ability to work because
Speaker 1: of a cannabis charge can't work in the cannabis industry.
Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense to me. Right. So, Georgia's laws
Speaker 1: around prohibiting people who have felonies from growing hemp, those
Speaker 1: are Georgia's specific laws, but the federal regulations also limit
Speaker 1: if you have a felony drug conviction, you cannot get
Speaker 1: a license to grow hemp for the ten years after
Speaker 1: you finish your sentence. So even on our federal level,
Speaker 1: so I want to encourage people wherever you are in
Speaker 1: this nation to check your local laws and your federal laws.
Speaker 1: We are actively discriminating against people who simply want to
Speaker 1: put their hands in the dirt and grow something that's useful, right,
Speaker 1: grow something that is helpful in healing to our souls,
Speaker 1: and we are saying, no, you can't do it if
Speaker 1: you have a felony drug convictions and it's less than
Speaker 1: ten you since you've had that felony joke condition, I
Speaker 1: want to just name you. Know, you asked about stigma
Speaker 1: associated with cannabis, and the reality is it's all rooted
Speaker 1: in racism. And we have a long trajectory here in
Speaker 1: the United States. If any time we find a people
Speaker 1: group that is using a substance that is different from
Speaker 1: what the majority white culture has been using, it suddenly
Speaker 1: becomes illegal. And that is what has happened with marijuana.
Speaker 1: And so until we really confront our racist past and
Speaker 1: the racism that is rooted in these practices, we're not
Speaker 1: going to be able to overcome them. And I can
Speaker 1: give you a great example of what that looks like
Speaker 1: here in Georgia. So I'm sitting on the Agriculture committee
Speaker 1: here in Georgia on the Georgia Senate, and we were
Speaker 1: reviewing our practices for growing cannabis in the hemp form,
Speaker 1: and we restrict people in Georgia. If you are a
Speaker 1: convicted felon for any felony, you cannot grow hemp in Georgia.
Speaker 1: You cannot receive a license. And I asked during committee,
Speaker 1: I said, you know, if I wanted to grow corn,
Speaker 1: can I be a convicted felon? Yes, of course, if
Speaker 1: I wanted to grow tomatoes, is it okay if I
Speaker 1: have a felony on my record? Sure? And hemp, let's
Speaker 1: all be clear. Hemp is not something that you can
Speaker 1: get high from. And I's like, so, hemp is not
Speaker 1: something you can get high from. But you're still telling
Speaker 1: me that if I'm a convicted felon, I cannot grow hemp.
Speaker 1: And the answer was yes, because it's too close to
Speaker 1: the drug. Right. So that's the kind of built in
Speaker 1: racism and stigma that we have even in hemp farming,
Speaker 1: and I'll tell you the amount of like somersaults that
Speaker 1: we do in Georgia to make sure that our hemp
Speaker 1: producers are not producing hemp that has higher levels of
Speaker 1: th HC. They're extraordinary because it's almost like we have
Speaker 1: this great fear and in fact that a former Georgia
Speaker 1: Agriculture commissioner used to refer to hemp as the of
Speaker 1: all lettuce. So not only is racism kind of build
Speaker 1: into this, there's also some real interesting religion and theological
Speaker 1: understandings around what marijuana is about that's also being built
Speaker 1: into why currently there's just great stigma around the use
Speaker 1: of and the growing of cannabis. As we conclude this episode,
Speaker 1: New York State has just legalized recreational use for marijuana.
Speaker 1: In the law, there is space for restaurants and cafes,
Speaker 1: and obviously in New York State is still trying to
Speaker 1: figure out how that's all going to work. I'm hoping
Speaker 1: that obviously that when these licenses are given out, that
Speaker 1: they're keeping people who have been incarcerated for minor marijuana
Speaker 1: violations and hopefully that those some fractions are going to
Speaker 1: be held against them when it comes time to issuing
Speaker 1: those licenses because I think people who parts their years
Speaker 1: of their lives were taken away, especially under a three
Speaker 1: strike rule or some something like that, where at least
Speaker 1: they could benefit from new regulations because they were put
Speaker 1: in jail for maybe you know, having possessed of a
Speaker 1: small amount of marijuana and that you know, they ended
Speaker 1: up in jail, and hopefully when these regulations change, hopefully
Speaker 1: they can benefit from from that. Right, So, I will
Speaker 1: say so I am deeply passionate about issues of criminal
Speaker 1: justice reform and in decarceration of people, the ending of
Speaker 1: mass incarceration. It's one of the platforms that I ran
Speaker 1: on and before I even became an elected official, that
Speaker 1: was the activism that I engaged with. And what we
Speaker 1: know is that there are literally thousands, thousands of in
Speaker 1: particularly black men, but black women are not you know,
Speaker 1: precluded from this as well. But there are thousands and
Speaker 1: thousands of black folks who were sitting in our prisons
Speaker 1: today because of silly little convictions over the possession of cannabis.
Speaker 1: And it's often even small amounts of cannabis. And so
Speaker 1: part of this work of decriminalizing and de stigmatizing the
Speaker 1: use of cannabis is about helping to set people free.
Speaker 1: I will say one of the things that I feel
Speaker 1: very much called to in my life is about helping
Speaker 1: set people free. Uh. And so if we can decriminalize cannabis,
Speaker 1: then we can get people out of prison and they
Speaker 1: can move forward with their lives and more in ways
Speaker 1: that our whole and healthy. I would go further to
Speaker 1: say that when we decriminalize cannabis, it will open us
Speaker 1: up to beginning to explore and to think more critically
Speaker 1: about how we do criminal justice as it relates to
Speaker 1: drug uses in general. I am of a school of
Speaker 1: thought that believes that people who are addicted to drugs
Speaker 1: need treatment, not prison. They need treatment not jail. I
Speaker 1: believe that if we can do this work of thinking
Speaker 1: critically about cannabis, then we can also begin the work
Speaker 1: of thinking importantly and critically about how we do drug
Speaker 1: treatment broadly and move folks from prison to treatment to freedom. So,
Speaker 1: if you're sitting there wishing you knew how you could
Speaker 1: help address some of these issues and your local jurisdictions,
Speaker 1: the Centator had some suggestions and what you can do
Speaker 1: on a national level as well. So I want to
Speaker 1: encourage folks as they are doing the work of serving
Speaker 1: advocates and activists around the legalization of cannabis, and lawmakers
Speaker 1: in particular to give special attention to making sure that
Speaker 1: we build in equality into the process of being able
Speaker 1: to farm for cannabis. So when I talk about issues
Speaker 1: of restricting people from being able to grow cannabis because
Speaker 1: they have a felony like that is a form of
Speaker 1: systemic racism and we have to avoid that. I will
Speaker 1: say that in all of our talks about policy here
Speaker 1: in Georgia, for whether it's growing hemp or medical marijuana
Speaker 1: or hopefully ultimately legalized cannabis, our goal is to make
Speaker 1: sure that we write into it provisions to ensure that
Speaker 1: black farmers have access to that work. That's really really important,
Speaker 1: and we can't do it accidentally. What we know about
Speaker 1: these United States, particularly when it comes to introducing kind
Speaker 1: of new revenues for people to enter into, whether it's
Speaker 1: licensed to be able to sell alcohol or a license
Speaker 1: to be able to grow cannabis, unless we intentionally say
Speaker 1: that their provisions to make sure that minority farmers, black
Speaker 1: farmers in particular get to have access to those then
Speaker 1: accidentally on purpose, because racism is built into the system,
Speaker 1: it'll all be white farmers and we can't have that right.
Speaker 1: And so yes, here's the reality. Black folks have been
Speaker 1: selling marijuana and making their life work through the selling
Speaker 1: of marijuana on you know, kind of underground, and when
Speaker 1: we legalize it, we have to be careful to not
Speaker 1: undermine those folks who have made their livelihood from selling
Speaker 1: it underground. So we need to make sure we have
Speaker 1: access and avenues for folks who've been selling it currently,
Speaker 1: who are working is what we kind of colloquially called
Speaker 1: street pharmacists, making sure that they have safe avenues into
Speaker 1: the practice of continuing to be able to sell that
Speaker 1: product in a way that's legal and that supports their livelihood.
Speaker 1: Thanks again to both Chef Andrew Drummer and Senator Kim
Speaker 1: Jackson for joining us. I have a feeling this will
Speaker 1: not be the last time we discussed the intersection of
Speaker 1: cannabis and food. You know, I get excited about any
Speaker 1: new innovation in the fool world, but it means even
Speaker 1: more when it's so closely is tied to justice for
Speaker 1: so many. Let's hope that the original Cannabis Cafe is
Speaker 1: just the beginning of a new wave of cannabis experiences,
Speaker 1: and with legislators like Senator Jackson, I have no doubt
Speaker 1: we'll start to see things change. Citizen Chef is executive
Speaker 1: produced by Christopher howse Yodas, produced by Gabby Collins, and
Speaker 1: researched by the Lilian Pullman. Citizen Chef is a production
Speaker 1: of Piheart Radio. For more podcasts, visit the I heart
Speaker 1: Radio app. Apple podcasts are anywhere you subscribe to podcasts.