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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the white tail woods, presented by first Light, creating proven

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Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First

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Speaker 1: Light Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on

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Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by doctor Grant Woods. We are

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Speaker 2: discussing the greatest deer hunting lessons that Grant wished.

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Speaker 3: He had learned when he was younger.

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Speaker 2: All right, welcome back to the Wired Hunt podcast, brought

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Speaker 2: to you by First Light.

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Speaker 3: Today we have a terrific episode.

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Speaker 2: With one of the pre eminent leaders within our white

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Speaker 2: tail hunting community, doctor Grant Woods.

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Speaker 3: And this is is a I don't.

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Speaker 2: Know, like a I'm trying to think of what the

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Speaker 2: right word is to describe this. This is a reflective

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Speaker 2: This is a looking back episode for Grant to help

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Speaker 2: all of us look forward.

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Speaker 3: By that, I mean we're going to be.

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Speaker 2: Asking Grant about the greatest lessons he has learned over

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Speaker 2: his many decades of deer hunting experience and success. He

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Speaker 2: is one of the leaders in the science of white tails,

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Speaker 2: in the management of white tails, and one of the

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Speaker 2: absolute best educators on all of those things and of

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Speaker 2: hunting white tails. If you're not familiar, Doctor Grant Woods

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Speaker 2: has been a longtime deer management specialist, researcher, consultant, and

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Speaker 2: more recently the last sixteen years or so, he's been

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Speaker 2: producing the Growing Deer TV series on YouTube, tremendous resource

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Speaker 2: for me and many other people over these last you know,

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Speaker 2: fifteen sixteen years to help you become a better deer

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Speaker 2: manager yourself, a better deer hunter yourself. And he recently

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Speaker 2: released a video a couple weeks ago exploring the things

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Speaker 2: the greatest deer hunting tips or lessons that he wished

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Speaker 2: he'd learned sooner, the things that he wished he knew

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Speaker 2: when he was younger that he does know now. And

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Speaker 2: they got me thinking, gosh, there's got to be a

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Speaker 2: lot of things like that for Grant, because he's seen

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Speaker 2: it all. He has seen this whole kind of trend

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Speaker 2: of deer hunting over these last you know, twenty thirty

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Speaker 2: forty fifty years. He's seen how things have changed, He's

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Speaker 2: seen how things have evolved. He's seen every different trend

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Speaker 2: and fad and idea that you know, the deer hunting

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Speaker 2: world has come up with, and he's kind of ground

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Speaker 2: truth that with the science, given his background as.

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Speaker 3: A deer researcher.

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Speaker 2: So what would those greatest lessons learned be for Grant?

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Speaker 2: What would be those things that maybe the rest of

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Speaker 2: us look at now it's like, oh, you got to

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Speaker 2: do it this way, but maybe it doesn't stand the

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Speaker 2: test of time. What does he wish he knew when

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Speaker 2: he was twenty five that he does know now? That's

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Speaker 2: what I wanted to ask doctor Grant Woods today. That

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Speaker 2: is the discussion we have. And I have to tell

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Speaker 2: you we'roughout the bat. You've probably noticed I've lost my voice.

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Speaker 2: I apologized, but you were going to have to bear

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Speaker 2: with me today, as Grant did on our.

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Speaker 3: Chat this past weekend.

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Speaker 2: Friday night, we had a new store opening, The Meat

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Speaker 2: Eater store in Wisconsin opened up and we had it

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Speaker 2: must have been well over a thousand people. I don't

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Speaker 2: know how many, but a lot of people. There was

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Speaker 2: a line that strel kind of strung through the store,

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Speaker 2: stopping to talk to me and Spencer and Chester for

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Speaker 2: three hours.

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Speaker 3: We talked to folks for three hours.

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Speaker 2: Straight in this very loud room, and you know, probably

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Speaker 2: an hour and a half into it, maybe two hours

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Speaker 2: into it, lost my voice. I think I've had a

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Speaker 2: little bit of a tickle to throw out something going on,

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Speaker 2: and then on top of that, trying to talk loudly

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Speaker 2: with all his people, completely lost the voice. Then the

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Speaker 2: next day we had a meat Eater tailgate tour stop

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Speaker 2: in Madison, Wisconsin, where again loud music, lots of loud talking,

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Speaker 2: and I'm trying to talk to people all morning. A

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Speaker 2: little bit voice I had left at that point completely disappeared.

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Speaker 3: So I've tried not to.

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Speaker 2: Talk to anyone for the last three days, but now

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Speaker 2: for this podcast had to do it. I'm still not

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Speaker 2: fully recovered, so bear with me. Apologies for the lack

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Speaker 2: of clarity with my speaking tone, but hopefully the chat

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Speaker 2: with Grant makes up for it, because there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of substance to it.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot to learn from here.

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Speaker 2: Grant someone who I've respected and appreciated for many years. Now,

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Speaker 2: I'm so glad that he was willing to have this

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Speaker 2: chat with me and with all of us that I

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Speaker 2: think will be a particularly important one as many of

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Speaker 2: our deer hunting seasons kick off, either just kicked off,

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Speaker 2: or are about to. We discuss everything from you know,

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Speaker 2: the impacts of wind and thermals to you know, the

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Speaker 2: importance that Grant places on access and exit and you know,

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Speaker 2: not educating deer, different ways to do that, different ways

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Speaker 2: to think about that. We talk about how his thoughts

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Speaker 2: on trail cameras and patterning deer have evolved. We talk

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Speaker 2: about how his goals and expectations have changed over the years,

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Speaker 2: and what he wished he had thought about maybe differently

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Speaker 2: when he was younger. So lots to cover. I think

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Speaker 2: a lot's going to help you out. I hope you

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Speaker 2: enjoy this. Thanks for tuning in despite my little bit

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Speaker 2: of thrown issue here. So without any further ado, let's

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Speaker 2: get to my chat with doctor Grant Woods. All right

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Speaker 2: with me on the line now is doctor Grant Woods.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 4: Grant, Hey, Mark, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: I really appreciate you taking the time to be here,

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Speaker 2: especially since we have tried to record this show two

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Speaker 2: different times now and have been thwarted by technology issues.

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Speaker 2: So thanks for your patience and flexibility as well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no issues, no issues.

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Speaker 2: So the inspiration for this chat, the reason why I

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Speaker 2: thought of you again as someone who would be perfect

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Speaker 2: to talk to it this time of year. Was because

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Speaker 2: you just released a video a few weeks ago exploring

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Speaker 2: some of the deer hunting ideas and tips that you

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Speaker 2: wish that you had known sooner. And you're someone who

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Speaker 2: has you know, as deep and as wide a breadth

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Speaker 2: of knowledge is just about anybody in our community. So

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Speaker 2: when I saw that I had, I got to thinking

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Speaker 2: like this is, these are some ideas that all of

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Speaker 2: us should be listening to and should be paying attention to,

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Speaker 2: whether we are new to this or whether we've been

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Speaker 2: doing this for twenty or forty or fifty years. So

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Speaker 2: this is a long winded way of saying, Grant that

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Speaker 2: I want us to kind of reflect today on what

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Speaker 2: those greatest lessons learned have been for you, what those

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Speaker 2: biggest aha moments have been, What some of those things

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Speaker 2: are that you wish you knew sooner or that you

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Speaker 2: wish you change sooner. And so jump right into a grant.

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Speaker 2: If we could imagine that you had a time machine

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Speaker 2: and you could go back to visit with your twenty

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Speaker 2: five year old self, what would be the single most

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Speaker 2: important lesson that you would like to impart with the

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Speaker 2: twenty five year old Grant Woods about deer hunting, Where

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Speaker 2: would you start?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that single lesson. There would be multiple,

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Speaker 4: but single lesson would be that independent of amount of

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Speaker 4: sign or weather conditions, the most important thing is for

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Speaker 4: the hunter to be able to approach, hunt and exit

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Speaker 4: without alerting deer. Alert deer are very difficult to tag,

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Speaker 4: So my number one priority is to be able to

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Speaker 4: again approach, hunt and exit. So we're thinking about thermos

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Speaker 4: and wind direction and visibility and sound and all these things,

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Speaker 4: and that shoves aside. Guys, there's more sign over here,

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Speaker 4: you know, whatever, it is that goal of being able

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Speaker 4: to get in without being detected and leave. You may

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Speaker 4: not harvest a deer you want, may not see deer

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Speaker 4: on that trip, but you don't want to leave a

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Speaker 4: bunch of signor alert deer coming and going and make

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Speaker 4: that area more difficult to hunt for several days.

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Speaker 2: So, so are you saying that you would value a

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Speaker 2: stand site that maybe, let's say is a six out

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Speaker 2: of ten on deer sightings but a ten out of

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Speaker 2: ten on access. Would that be the better place to hunt?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely? Absolutely? And we're you know, we can't that around

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Speaker 4: a little bit. When I was young, I tried to

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Speaker 4: scout scout scout and find the most sign, and then

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Speaker 4: you know, develop my stand or blind or my hunting

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Speaker 4: location there, and now I realize where there's the most sign,

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Speaker 4: usually find the most concentrated sign in betting areas and

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Speaker 4: feeding areas. Feeding at that level of tensity is probably

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Speaker 4: not during legal shooting light and betting areas are betting

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Speaker 4: areas because they offer deer protection uh protection primarily from

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Speaker 4: swirling winds, and we just can't get in there and

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Speaker 4: especially get with in bow range of deer while they're there.

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Speaker 4: So rather than hunt the most sign, I'd rather hunt

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Speaker 4: travel or a transition zone between that bedding and feeding,

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Speaker 4: or between two large groups of sign where they're just

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Speaker 4: passing by. They're just going by, So not hanging around

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Speaker 4: and leaving near as much sign will probably increase my

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Speaker 4: odds of successfully filling a tag much more be hunting

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Speaker 4: those areas.

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Speaker 2: So this, this come the springs to mind, is something

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Speaker 2: I thought a lot about lately. For a lot of years,

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Speaker 2: I have tried many, many different ways of hunting deer,

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Speaker 2: and you know, I certainly did the thing you described there,

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Speaker 2: which is which is chasing where I think I'll see

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Speaker 2: the most deer or where the most sign is. I've

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Speaker 2: been really aggressive. I've I've punched into the best stuff

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Speaker 2: at times, because you know, especially in heavy hunting pressure areas,

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Speaker 2: sometimes there's there's a belief that that's the only way

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Speaker 2: you're gonna be able to kill these deers, to really

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Speaker 2: get in there with them. But at the same time,

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Speaker 2: I've also seen, of course, what we all know is

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Speaker 2: that that does make a big impact, and you do

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Speaker 2: see deer become educated and deer behavior change, and I've

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Speaker 2: started to wonder if the predictability of deer is much less.

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Speaker 3: So than we like to think.

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Speaker 2: And so because of that, sometimes I think to myself, well,

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Speaker 2: I want to be in these really good places because

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Speaker 2: I think I can predict when these deer are going

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Speaker 2: to be there, and I just need one hunt or

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Speaker 2: two hunts in this spot and I can kill them.

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Speaker 2: But more times than not, that doesn't pan out, and

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Speaker 2: it seems like maybe the smarter plan most of the

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Speaker 2: time would be to do what you're describing, which might

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Speaker 2: be not hunting the best place instead hunting the six

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Speaker 2: out of ten you know, deer activity location, but knowing

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Speaker 2: that you can hunt it more often because you won't

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Speaker 2: educate deer, and so you can you can negate the

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Speaker 2: fact that deer unpredictable in many ways, and you can say, well,

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Speaker 2: instead of doing one hunt here and you know, because

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Speaker 2: it's probably not going to work out, then I blow

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Speaker 2: it for the rest of the chances. Instead, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to hunt a place where deer won't know him there,

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Speaker 2: but I can hunt it five times and maybe one

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Speaker 2: out of those five times he finally does come through.

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Speaker 3: Is that?

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Speaker 2: Is that the the idea here with hunting in these

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Speaker 2: places that are lower risk but maybe not as high reward,

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Speaker 2: because you can just hunt them over and over again

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Speaker 2: until finally he does show.

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Speaker 4: I mean, there's there's always extremes and the edge just

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Speaker 4: to everything. So you know, if your low risk is

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Speaker 4: on the back of your truck and the stuff mark

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Speaker 4: parking lot, you're probably you know, you're not probably not

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Speaker 4: getting into game a much. Now, with that said, every

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Speaker 4: year hunts some hunter somewhere will harvest a great deer

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Speaker 4: in an area that the rest of us go. My gosh,

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Speaker 4: I would have never hunted there. My brother in law

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Speaker 4: as well as guys. You know, I can put the

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Speaker 4: guy in a garho I don't want him kill a deer,

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Speaker 4: and sure enough, you know on the back forty where

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Speaker 4: it hadn't been a deer in three years, here killed

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Speaker 4: that big old buck. That usually happens during the rut

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Speaker 4: when deer is certainly not predictable. Hunters all want to

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Speaker 4: hunt the rut. That's one of the worst times to

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Speaker 4: hunt if you're trying to pattern a deer, because there

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Speaker 4: is no pattern. The only patterns where Betty Lou has

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Speaker 4: that receptive perfume on, So the pre rut, early pre rut,

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Speaker 4: especially deer, I'm much more of a pattern. With that said,

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Speaker 4: let's be ever cautious using this word pattern. Now, if

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Speaker 4: you're in an extreme agg country, very limited cover, very limited cover,

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Speaker 4: it's easier to pattern deer because they're pretty much going

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Speaker 4: to be better than that small cover block. If you're

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Speaker 4: like the bulk of hunters, and I've done this, if

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Speaker 4: you add up the amount of white tail tag sold,

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Speaker 4: you know from Maine down to Florida over to East Texas,

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Speaker 4: you know, most of Tennessee, Kentucky, certainly where I am

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Speaker 4: in southern Missouri, not in northern Missouri. That's the bulk

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Speaker 4: of whitetail hunters. That's the bulk of licenmselves, not Southern Iowa.

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Speaker 4: That's the minority. More TV shows are made, but it's

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Speaker 4: a small part of hunters and those of us that

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Speaker 4: are hunting. Hill country, timber country, swamps, pine plantations very

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Speaker 4: difficult to pattern deer. So now you try to find

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Speaker 4: or create if you're a manager like I am, bating

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Speaker 4: areas and feeding areas and maybe even manage for pinch

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Speaker 4: points or travel corridors narrow places to travel in between.

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Speaker 4: Now your odds go way up. Feeding areas. Again, a

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Speaker 4: lot of that behavior can be before or after legal shooting.

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Speaker 4: Light Beating areas by definition protect deer. Therefore it's difficult

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Speaker 4: for a predator being there. That's why they choose to

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Speaker 4: bed there either visibility or slope or swirling winds, whatever

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Speaker 4: it is. And folks, I just want to share this

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Speaker 4: is not my only opinion. Only my opinion. I mean

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Speaker 4: great researchers like at Mississippi State and Penn State have

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Speaker 4: put bunches and bunches of GPS dollars on ye for

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Speaker 4: a long long time. Now there's huge data sets. We

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Speaker 4: know a lot about deer. We don't know everything, but

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Speaker 4: we know a lot and I'll tell a funny on me.

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Speaker 4: I'm sixty four. So back in izing grad school, GPS

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Speaker 4: scholars were not widely known. They're really really expensive. That

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Speaker 4: technology was new. Not many of them deployed, and I

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Speaker 4: had huge observation data sets from me and many other people, huge,

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Speaker 4: and I ran all kinds of stats and regressions on there.

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Speaker 4: And I thought I'd figured out deer movement related to

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Speaker 4: the moon and deer and deer. Honting partnered with me

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Speaker 4: based on research i'd published. We called it DAI Deer

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Speaker 4: Activity Index, you know, and there's like a two through ten.

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Speaker 4: And I was making this pretty good jingle at the

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Speaker 4: time for gratitude and I could buy a new gun

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Speaker 4: and bow in the same year, and that's I gotten

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Speaker 4: for graduate student. Yeah, and then GPS scholars got more affordable,

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Speaker 4: some technology change, and all of a sudden, there's a

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Speaker 4: bunch deployed. And I realized I had no idea what

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Speaker 4: I was talking about, and actually pulled that calender off

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Speaker 4: the market, which was the appropriate thing to do. And

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Speaker 4: since then we've learned if you study declination degrees north

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Speaker 4: and south of the moon of the equator, their secutor

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Speaker 4: the moon goes and for some amount of light coming

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Speaker 4: off the phase and all the distance to the Earth.

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Speaker 4: The moon has elliptical orbit, so it's not one full

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Speaker 4: moon's not always the same distance from the Earth as

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Speaker 4: another full moon. All that's been studied in great detail,

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Speaker 4: and there is zero relationship with anything the moon does

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Speaker 4: anything a deer does. Zero. I know you're going to

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Speaker 4: get some hate, noil mark, it's just the facts. So

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Speaker 4: through that process, what I've learned is it's not conditions

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Speaker 4: that make deer move more again, it's the conditions that

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Speaker 4: allow me to be a better predator. The obvious question

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Speaker 4: is one of those conditions, Well, one of them would

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Speaker 4: be high pressure. Right on high pressure, our scent is

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Speaker 4: more likely to rise up instead of spreading out. Low

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Speaker 4: pressure just wants to hover on the ground and almost

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Speaker 4: make a scent around us where deer can't get in

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Speaker 4: bowt range or maybe even firearm range. So high pressure,

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Speaker 4: I like wind. I like you know, ten to fifteen

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Speaker 4: miles an hour wind. I much rather have that than stilled.

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Speaker 4: I want to know where my scent cone is going.

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Speaker 4: I want wind, and so in hill country mountain country,

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Speaker 4: that usually means hunting the ridge top or close to

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Speaker 4: it because the more you get down on that ridge slope,

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Speaker 4: the more to wind's gonna swirl. That's why GPS collars

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Speaker 4: have shown that deer tend to bed on those side

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Speaker 4: hills in ridge country, not on the peak because winds

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Speaker 4: only go in one direction, but right over to side

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Speaker 4: about twenty degrees, that wind's going to go over to

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Speaker 4: the mountain and just swirl, just turn, and they can

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Speaker 4: sit there all day and detect predators from most of

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Speaker 4: the way around them.

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Speaker 2: Back to your I want to talk a little bit

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Speaker 2: more about some of these things that help you and

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Speaker 2: give you an advantage as a hunter. But one last

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Speaker 2: question on the conditions that impact deer movement. You mentioned

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Speaker 2: that moon doesn't impact deer movement. You mentioned that something

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Speaker 2: like high barometric pressure doesn't necessarily impact deer movement, but

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Speaker 2: it impacts wind and your ability to hunt without getting winded.

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Speaker 2: Is there any condition, any atmospheric or you know, weather

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Speaker 2: related factor that you believe does make enough of an

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Speaker 2: impact that you pay attention to it as a hunter.

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Speaker 2: I know that the studies show that there's nothing statistically

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Speaker 2: significant enough to be called out, but is there anything

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Speaker 2: that you as a hunter know Like, yeah, but maybe

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Speaker 2: it's a little bit, it's enough that I think about,

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Speaker 2: or is there literally zero that you factor on that front?

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Speaker 4: I mean, I still probably just from almost sentimental reasons.

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Speaker 4: I still like a high pressure moving in. I like

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Speaker 4: a front personally. I've seen one event in my entire

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Speaker 4: life or hunting career that just made deer move like crazy.

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Speaker 4: And I was in grad school. I was seventeen miles

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Speaker 4: off the coast of Charleston, South Carolina, when Hurricane Hugo

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Speaker 4: came in. I'm a Midwest boy, you know, so hurricanes

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Speaker 4: didn't mean thing to me. And where I was working,

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Speaker 4: the old plantation manager said, ah, feel like a bad thunderstorm.

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Speaker 4: That's the worst thunderstorm I ever spent the night here,

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Speaker 4: and I promise you that I will never spend a

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Speaker 4: night when a major hurricane comes in again. But the

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Speaker 4: day or two before that, I was going around doing

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Speaker 4: my research, and deer were just everywhere, just everywhere. And

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Speaker 4: of course before a hurricane, the brometer drops way abnormally

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Speaker 4: love and the manager said, Grant, you probably shouldn't harvest

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Speaker 4: any deer because we could lose power for a day

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Speaker 4: or two. By the way, we lost it for six weeks,

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Speaker 4: but probably lose power for a day or two. You see,

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Speaker 4: what have your way to you know, keep the meat cool.

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Speaker 4: So we didn't harvesting deer. But as I was running

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Speaker 4: my transacts, I was measuring rubs and scrapes and doing

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Speaker 4: some work like that for my dissertation, and they were

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Speaker 4: just deer everywhere. That's the only time I've ever seen

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Speaker 4: anything like that. And you don't want to go through

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Speaker 4: a level four class for a hurricane to see that, right,

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Speaker 4: You don't want to wish that one anyone. But I'm not.

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Speaker 4: And again, the research is clear, and you use to

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Speaker 4: write word statistically significant. Is there some hundred that's figured

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Speaker 4: out how to get a one or two minute advantage

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Speaker 4: the deer get to your stand, you know, two minutes

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Speaker 4: before dark or something. I don't know, maybe maybe not.

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Speaker 4: I have personal friends with people to have some of

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Speaker 4: the deer apps out there, but most of us are

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Speaker 4: an ad country. And again that country is very stark

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Speaker 4: cover food, cover food. That that's not where the vast

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Speaker 4: majority of white tail hunters hunt. That's the vast minority.

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Speaker 4: And in timer country, you know, acorns on the ground

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Speaker 4: they can feed bed in the same area. No I've

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Speaker 4: not found anything that makes the significant difference, and my

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Speaker 4: research and many others that have certainly deployed way way

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Speaker 4: more GPS callers. Deer move every day, and they moved

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Speaker 4: on in dust. They're prepuscular. They moved sunrise and sunset.

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Speaker 4: And I have a hypothesis of why that is. If

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Speaker 4: I can share that, please don't. So sun's rising, of course,

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Speaker 4: airs warming up in some places, open field, logging deck, whatever.

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Speaker 4: That Sun's getting down the ground and warming up, and

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Speaker 4: that air is rising under the shade of trees or

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Speaker 4: tall grass or on the west slope, that air is

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Speaker 4: still cool. It's gonna stay cool up to an hour

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Speaker 4: longer whatever. And on the aspect of the sun. So

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Speaker 4: you have hot air and coat air right beside each other,

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Speaker 4: and that starts turning. That's on a much larger scale.

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Speaker 4: When you see that big front coming through that spawns tornadoes,

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Speaker 4: that's the same thing. You've got hot air on one side,

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Speaker 4: cooler on the other. On a micro scale, that happens

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Speaker 4: in the timber and that churning their again allows dear

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Speaker 4: to detect predators most of the way around them very efficiently.

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Speaker 4: So I believe that's why it's not light. You know

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Speaker 4: a lot of hunters think it's light. We've all spooked

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Speaker 4: here during the dead and night or you know it's

386
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Speaker 4: dark going our And I've yet to hear one run

387
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Speaker 4: into a tree. I mean, I've just never, oh man,

388
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Speaker 4: broke my right hand or off hitting that tree. I've never.

389
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Speaker 4: You know, it just doesn't happen. And we know why.

390
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Speaker 4: Of course, you have a covering on the back of

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Speaker 4: the eyes called take the lucidium. Light goes in and

392
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Speaker 4: triggers Rod and Cones hits that almost like aluminum foil,

393
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Speaker 4: bounces back out and they get another use of that light.

394
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Speaker 4: Not one hundred percent, but a high percent. So the

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Speaker 4: big pupils and they're getting like coming and going to

396
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Speaker 4: trigger Roger and Cones. They can see in that extremely

397
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Speaker 4: low light, no problem. So yeah, thermals I've I've learned

398
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Speaker 4: and wind direction thermals since is number one for me,

399
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Speaker 4: and that first fifteen minutes, last fifteen minutes, those are

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Speaker 4: the money times to be out there. And I'll take

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Speaker 4: this one step further. I have a friend, it's not

402
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Speaker 4: a scientist, he's probably the best hunter I know. I

403
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Speaker 4: won't mention any names, I will share it. Their multiple

404
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 4: multiple world record typicals on his wall. Literally, look me

405
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Speaker 4: right here, folks.

406
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Speaker 3: Wow.

407
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Speaker 4: Man's a predator and he hunts as what I've learned

408
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Speaker 4: to call like a bobcat hunts. He wants to arrive

409
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Speaker 4: no more than three to four minutes at the spot

410
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Speaker 4: that he thinks he's going to see this year. He's

411
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Speaker 4: not sitting there for five hours, three hours, two hours.

412
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Speaker 4: He didn't want his scent to build up at all.

413
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Speaker 4: I call that hunting like a bobcat. If you've ever hunted,

414
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Speaker 4: you ever watched bobcats or looked at their GPS collar studies.

415
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Speaker 4: They move differently when they get in their hunting zone.

416
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 4: They slow down, then they're barely moving. They know when

417
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Speaker 4: they're close to gain. And that's what my friend does.

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Speaker 4: He will take hours getting to the location to spend

419
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Speaker 4: three minutes there, last three minutes, first three minutes whatever.

420
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Speaker 4: He's just super super eccentric about not alerting any deer,

421
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Speaker 4: those fonds or bucks. He doesn't want to alert any deer.

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Speaker 4: And hunting on his farms is like no other place

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Speaker 4: you're going to hunt.

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Speaker 2: What other ways does that manifest when it comes to

425
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Speaker 2: how he sets up his farm or how he you know,

426
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Speaker 2: accesses or exits these places. Other than the timing you

427
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Speaker 2: just mentioned, is there anything else you could point out?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean he's all about that access. So he's

429
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Speaker 4: going to have mode really short trails to go to,

430
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Speaker 4: you know, the food plots or betting airs or whatever.

431
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Speaker 4: So he's not leaving a lot of sin if you

432
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Speaker 4: think about it, if you're walking on a spongy layer

433
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Speaker 4: of dead grass or leaves, that's just a scent sponge.

434
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 4: You want to get in clean. And as I've said

435
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 4: several times, there's a lot of people want I don't

436
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 4: think care about. You want to get out clean. So

437
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 4: when you hunt tomorrow or the next week, those deer

438
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 4: are alerted. My great friend, doctor Carl Miller, just somewhere

439
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 4: years ago, and I'm not going to quote all Carl's work,

440
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 4: I don't remember all the detailed did some work to

441
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 4: kind of learn about deer memory and how long they

442
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 4: could remember certain events or maybe certain colors associated with

443
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 4: treats and the captive deer pen And yeah, deer have memory.

444
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 4: But I had a local friend here, a hunter that

445
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,160
Speaker 4: the wind is right, everything's right, good buck for deer.

446
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 4: It comes in under white oak tree, he shoots shoots

447
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 4: sort of back misses the deer. Next day, the deer

448
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 4: comes back. Well, remember, deer don't know death. They've never

449
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 4: been to grandpa's funeral. They don't know death literally. And

450
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 4: the most important thing I want to if I could

451
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 4: share with anyone, is start thinking like a deer. Put

452
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:44,120
Speaker 4: yourself in their world. Stop thinking like a human. Deer

453
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 4: do not know death. They don't know gunshots. It's what

454
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 4: they learned to associate with danger. Both my daughters shot

455
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,919
Speaker 4: high school trap at a very high level. One of

456
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 4: them was national champion. That's not boasting because I'm like

457
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 4: a three box dove hunter. Shooting a shotgut is not genetic,

458
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 4: I could promise you. But and at nationals, which is

459
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,160
Speaker 4: always in Sparta, Illinois, it's a big old strip pick

460
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 4: coal mine that's been reclaimed. There's nady grass and forbes everywhere.

461
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 4: Every afternoon there'll be deer feeding. If you shoot trap,

462
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 4: you know the biggest shot, you can shoot the seven.

463
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 4: Most people shoot eighth or nine, so only travels so

464
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,719
Speaker 4: far and hits the dirt. And deer have learned that

465
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 4: pattern and they're be feeding about five yards password to

466
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 4: average shot can go at that trap range and It

467
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 4: buggers up kids on the line because you're shooting towards deer.

468
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 4: You're shooting towards deer. At the Nationals High School Nationals

469
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 4: there will be over one million shotgun shells fired in

470
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 4: four days, over one million, and deer feeding out there

471
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,919
Speaker 4: right down line or the shooting range because they know

472
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 4: there's no danger. You see deer on golf courses all time.

473
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,360
Speaker 4: You see them below, you know, right beside the inner

474
00:25:55,359 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 4: state or whatever. Deer learn what's a threat to them

475
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 4: and what's not on any given area, and that may change.

476
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 4: Like we've done some work on Dodal Department offense properties

477
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 4: from a conservation point of view, and we're seeing one

478
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty of America's best shooting aw to make

479
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 4: weapons downrange. Of course, they will never see the deer.

480
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 4: I'm sure they'd get in great trouble for doing that.

481
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 4: And there's a real lesson here, folks. And on the

482
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 4: predominant down wind side, on the predominant down wind side,

483
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:29,239
Speaker 4: there will be deer feeding while they're shooting. You know,

484
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 4: automake weapons downrange. Why predominant down wind side because a

485
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 4: big part of gunpowder is nitrogen, and where the wind blows.

486
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 4: That residue is going to be highly fertilized. So think

487
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 4: like a deer. And when we keep some records here

488
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 4: in about twenty five percent of the mature bucks we harvest,

489
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 4: I had it happened last year. Happens almost every year

490
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 4: for one of our hunters here. Well, will happened when

491
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 4: we've harvested a dough with a firearm. So hope you

492
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 4: made a double shoulder shot and it drops right there,

493
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 4: and the bucks are coming in to smell that dough,

494
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 4: try to hook up, the horns, get to stand up.

495
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 4: They don't know death, they have no idea about death,

496
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 4: and for the first few hours that dough just smells normal.

497
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 4: It's the best big bucket tracks that you can have

498
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,479
Speaker 4: when you're gun hunting. The first thing I want to

499
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 4: do you talk about when I jump boy. If you

500
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,640
Speaker 4: harvest a dough, you get down, you leave your scent

501
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 4: all over, you drag it out a way. Now, I

502
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,479
Speaker 4: want to shoot a dough through both shoulders, want to

503
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 4: meet a course and drop it right there in my

504
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 4: shooting light. And if I do that, I'm going to

505
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 4: hunt a long time there, because I know a buck's

506
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 4: coming to that dough. Last year, we filmed five different

507
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 4: bucks coming to that dough before the bucks showed up

508
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 4: that I wanted.

509
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 2: Wow, So I want to ask a follow related to

510
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 2: you know, what you described happening there in the shooting

511
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 2: range or on golf courses. You know, this is something

512
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 2: I've seen too, like in suburban areas where deer become

513
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 2: very accustomed to humans are being around and so they

514
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,880
Speaker 2: become you know, conditioned. Right, Have you in any ways

515
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 2: used that to your advantage as a hunter, in how

516
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 2: you operate on your property in ways you access and

517
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 2: in ways you set up a place or hunt in

518
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 2: other places, knowing that there's certain things that deer seem

519
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 2: to get used to and feel it safe, and other

520
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 2: things that they recognize as danger, and then using that.

521
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 4: Yes and no. So I'm in a CWD zone. No bait,

522
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 4: no feed, anything like that, which is great. But we

523
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 4: work on our property every day. There's youtvs, there's people

524
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 4: checking cameras, doing habitat work. We do habitat work right

525
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 4: during deer season. We were running a bunch of chainsaws

526
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 4: the other day. So deer used to us being on here.

527
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 4: They're not used to people being twenty feet up a tree.

528
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 4: So we can get around our property. We don't even

529
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 4: think about it. We don't think about it. It's no

530
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 4: concern to me to write a UTV on the property

531
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 4: because they hear them so frequently. It's that last little

532
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 4: bit getting into the tree stand or the blind. When

533
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 4: I'm going to a blind, and I'm not lazy. I

534
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 4: walk all the time, but I like to drive absolutely

535
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 4: as clothes. I would rather the deer see my UTV

536
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 4: then smell me walking a quarter mile. You know, parking

537
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 4: to bottom of the blind has nothing to do about

538
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 4: being lazy or anything like that. It's just extremely efficient

539
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 4: from a hundred point of view. If I'm in a blind,

540
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 4: you know, maybe gun hunting deer sees a UTV at

541
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 4: one hundred yards away, it's a non issue. So we've

542
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 4: all heard the story about the old farmer that goes

543
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 4: into pasture and sees the giant buck every day and

544
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 4: can't understand why the hunter can't see a deer because

545
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 4: he sees it every day and he's feeding his cows. Well,

546
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,719
Speaker 4: the buck's tole the condition that farmers pickup. And you know,

547
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 4: we come out there from the city and our e

548
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 4: bike or UTV or whatever, our walk and place as

549
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 4: a farmer never walks, so of course the buck goes. Man,

550
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 4: this is weird. Man, I don't know what they're thinking.

551
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 4: They're thinking something like this is weird. I need to

552
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 4: be cautious here. So hunting camps all across America, they said,

553
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 4: idle all year long and then the day for opening season. Man,

554
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 4: it's a flurry of activity. That's the worst thing you

555
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 4: can do.

556
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 2: How long do you think it takes for that conditioning

557
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 2: to occur? You know, if I went out to my

558
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 2: deer hunting property and start driving my UTV or bike

559
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 2: around for a couple of weeks before the season, or

560
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 2: does it have to be a couple of months before

561
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 2: the season.

562
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 3: Does it need to be the entire year?

563
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 2: How long do you think it will take for a

564
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 2: deer to become used to a certain activity.

565
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 4: Back into this with what we call the ice cream truck.

566
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 4: I think it started in Texas. People use it all

567
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 4: over now. I think maybe we come up term ice

568
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 4: cream truck. So, you know in Texas, a drive around

569
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 4: a paddock or a pasture and dunk corn out. Then

570
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 4: they redrive it deer on the road everywhere. Ye I

571
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 4: call that the ice cream truck. Right. The deer is

572
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 4: so conditioned to hearing that old ram truck, they associate

573
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 4: it with food and they just step right out there.

574
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 4: When people first start that ice cream truck, let's call it.

575
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 4: Seems to me it takes about a month. That's just

576
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 4: a round number private prop owners. You know, they got

577
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 4: a UTV. They sing a bag of corn or the

578
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 4: left arms do it the right and they just trickle

579
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 4: a little bit. They're not painting the road yellow. They're

580
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 4: just trickling a little bit. After about a month, the deer, turkey, quail,

581
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 4: whatever will literally be standing in the road waiting for

582
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 4: that buggy to get there. Now, you can't violate their trush.

583
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 4: You can't be shooting a fifty cow off the buggy

584
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 4: or something like that. But yeah, we see people all

585
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 4: across America using the ice cream truck. It's called various saying.

586
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 4: It's been on the geography you live in in South

587
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 4: Texas called feeding us and darrows. Again, we don't do that.

588
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 4: That's not my thing, not how I like to hunt.

589
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 4: But I see a lot of people doing it, and

590
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 4: I all say about the same number. Yeah, you do it.

591
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 4: For about months, they'll be standing in the road waiting

592
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 4: on you. The other side of that coin is you

593
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 4: bust a deer man. You go to draw, you get

594
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 4: busted by dough off the side whatever. They all blow

595
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 4: and tail up and snort and out of Dallas. How

596
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 4: long does it take for that to calm down? I

597
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 4: think about seven days is what some good researchers have said.

598
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 4: That's not my number, that's what other researchers have said.

599
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 4: Some really great data again for my friend doctor Duffinball.

600
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 4: He heads to Penn State Big Deer Project where for

601
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 4: many many years now they've had a bunch of deer GPS.

602
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 4: Call great thing about Dwayne. I went to University of

603
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 4: Georgia when Dwayne was there. He finished a year or

604
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 4: two before I did. Great researcher. Dwayne is more of

605
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 4: a burden duck guy. He's not a deer guy, so

606
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 4: he's not really biased by deer work. And so he's

607
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 4: a great deer scientist because he didn't have a lot

608
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 4: of preconceived notions or he's not trying to prove so

609
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 4: and so's theory. He's just doing good signs. I really

610
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 4: appreciate Dwayne's work, and Dwayne has got some great data

611
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 4: where for Pennsylvania opening the weekend and gun season is

612
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 4: World War three, a lot of activity in the timber

613
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 4: and Dwayne's all Dwayne's works on public land. Penn State

614
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 4: has a huge number of hunters. The last data I

615
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 4: saw the average to hunter for seventeen acres. That includes

616
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 4: all the acres in state, so Philly and you know

617
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 4: all those places. That's just a huge hunter data. That

618
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 4: may have changed now, but anyway, and right after opening day,

619
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 4: if you look at that morning movement, it's a real tall,

620
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 4: skinny spike. They barely moved. They shut it down. They're

621
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 4: just you know, they're scared to move, stay in the

622
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 4: bed all day long. Itty bitty movement right at dark.

623
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 4: By Thursday, that movement ban because you know, the most

624
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 4: people hunt the weekend. By Thursday, that movement band gets broader,

625
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 4: and Penn State has a great graph on that. By Thursday,

626
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 4: the deer obviously not as many hunters into which during

627
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 4: the week we're going back to work whatever. By thursdays,

628
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 4: those deer spending more time on your feet, a little

629
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 4: bit more time on the week. So in that case,

630
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 4: three four days they start letting up a little bit.

631
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 2: So Grant, is there any situation in which you think

632
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 2: that we overvalue or over index on how much of

633
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 2: an impact we can make on deer, because a lot

634
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 2: of what you've talked about here is how much we

635
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 2: do impact deer behavior, how much they will react to

636
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 2: our pressure. How important is to make sure not being detected.

637
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 2: Is there any place or is there any time in

638
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 2: your history when you could point to the conventional wisdom

639
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 2: or your approach as actually being overboard on that front,

640
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 2: and actually you should have you should have recognized that

641
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 2: they're more we're giving in this way, or that you

642
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 2: could have gotten away with more in this other way.

643
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 3: Is there anything like that that comes to mind?

644
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 4: Yeah? Oh, one thing is remember, hunting pressure is not

645
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 4: how many days you hunt a location, how many times

646
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 4: you alerted deer there, so you've got that great setup

647
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 4: and the wind man it just stays out of north

648
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 4: for twenty days in a row. Whatever you're coming in

649
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,760
Speaker 4: from the south, whatever it is, you don't alert deer

650
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 4: you hunt there every day a season doesn't matter. It's

651
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 4: not how many days you hunt a location, it's how

652
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 4: many times you alert deer. And then there are a

653
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 4: lot of people that jump and dump. I think that's

654
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 4: a hunting published statement or you know they use busting deer,

655
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 4: man drives all that stuff. That's not my style of hunting,

656
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 4: and there was really popular here in the Thozarts. We're

657
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 4: mountain hilly, not fields. There's no way to really pinch

658
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 4: deer in you try to a man drive to run everywhere.

659
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 4: But there's certainly a bunch of hunters around America that

660
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 4: push deer to standards or through a gap or something,

661
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 4: and the other people harvest deer. And that whole hunting

662
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 4: technique is dependent upon a controlled disturbance. And again that's

663
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 4: not how the majority hunters hunt, not how I hunt,

664
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,359
Speaker 4: so I really can't speak to it. My strategy rather

665
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 4: is to slide in undisturbed and let the deer come

666
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,280
Speaker 4: to me. I'm not trying to push the deer somewhere.

667
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 4: I want the deer to come to me. And in

668
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 4: that case, the more natural the deer on their own

669
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 4: behavior not all alert. And we noticed from everything like

670
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 4: we've done some I think pretty cool work where we

671
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 4: set up a quickly a computer with the microphone and

672
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 4: a magnet that dropped the water balloon and a balloon

673
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 4: full of water so it dropped it. The speed of

674
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 4: gravity and tested. How you know a two or three

675
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 4: hundred to four under foot bow could we get there

676
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 4: in time if the deer reacted. We use the a

677
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 4: lip sprinter as a deer's reaction time. I think deer

678
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:09,479
Speaker 4: probably faster and Olympic sprinter and in those situations, deer

679
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 4: going to react faster than any bow on the market

680
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 4: can respond. At forty yards for sure, And at twenty

681
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 4: yards you're shooting a crossboard something, you probably get them.

682
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 4: And that goes into telling me how sensitive deer are.

683
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 4: We've got to remember, deer make a living. They stay

684
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:34,879
Speaker 4: alive by being able to avoid danger because everything out

685
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 4: there wants a deer sandwich. Kyotes, bears, bobcats, was everything

686
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 4: wants a deer sandwich. And so when they have the

687
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 4: capacity to learn something is dangerous, they avoid it. They

688
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 4: have not had the capacity yet in most places to

689
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 4: learn vehicles are dangerous. However, Tasea and I sold part

690
00:37:58,160 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 4: of our land. We're living in a little rental house

691
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 4: town now, which is killing me. While our house on

692
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 4: the property ear is being built. And I've never seen

693
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 4: a roadkilled deer in that little development. I see deer

694
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 4: every day, you know, twenty thirty deer come and go

695
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 4: under you know, urban fleas all over the place, and

696
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 4: you see those deer their herey car coming, they just

697
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 4: stop alone most highways, that doesn't happen obviously. Deer in

698
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 4: that area where they see cars all day long, every day,

699
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 4: they have learned to avoid cars, and they teach their

700
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 4: fonds to learn to avoid cars. And you see it.

701
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 4: I assuming that we know what a deer say. You

702
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 4: see them coming through a yard or a little undeveloped

703
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 4: lot and you're coming and they just stop and look

704
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,280
Speaker 4: at you, and you go buy everyone else in America

705
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 4: most places they run out and every now and then

706
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 4: you whack one. So deer can learn with repetitive, non

707
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 4: lethal disturbances want to avoid. They don't learn to avoid

708
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 4: gunshots because most of them that get shot at die

709
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 4: right and they there's no way of communicating. Boy, next

710
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 4: time you hear a thunder, real loud, you need to

711
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 4: get out of Dallas because you know you don't pass

712
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 4: that on.

713
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 3: Is there is there ever a situation?

714
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 2: I guess one kind of final question on this overarching

715
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 2: topic of not alerting deer. I think that's kind of

716
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 2: the theme of much of what we talked about. Is

717
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 2: there ever a situation or a location that warrants you

718
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 2: take a different approach where you're willing to hunt in

719
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,879
Speaker 2: a place that you know you will alert deer on

720
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 2: your way out or at some point or you know, Man,

721
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 2: there's a high chance this could blow up for me,

722
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 2: but there's also a high chance it will work.

723
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,399
Speaker 3: Will you ever take that risk?

724
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 2: Will you ever say, Okay, it's worth it this one time,

725
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 2: even though I know I'm breaking my usual rules.

726
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course. I think that goes with the stewardship

727
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 4: you have of that location or that property. So you're

728
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 4: a guest, You and I are hunting together on public

729
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 4: land and it's the last day of hunt, hunt, and man,

730
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 4: we just we just can't quite get to deer. Say, man,

731
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 4: we're going into the you know, swamp vetting area or whatever,

732
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 4: because if we blow it, it doesn't impact our hunting

733
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 4: that year, and we have no stewardship over what the

734
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 4: next hunter is going to experience on our private land.

735
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 4: We're going to get to hunt another day, and we

736
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,720
Speaker 4: don't want to disturb that vetting area or that scrape

737
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 4: or whatever it is. So I think it depends upon

738
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 4: your scenario. Again, public land, private land, last day to hunt,

739
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 4: first day to hunt. A lot of those factors. During

740
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 4: the rut, when deer not on a pattern, I will

741
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 4: certainly go in areas I normally don't go in. I'm

742
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 4: not a big fan of the rut. Well, I'm a

743
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:44,840
Speaker 4: fan of the rut when I'm a travel hunter and

744
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 4: I just need deer walking. The most steps of day

745
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,240
Speaker 4: are gonna walk. That's when I like the rut. At home,

746
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 4: the deer aren't on a pattern, and I love, I

747
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 4: love trying to figure out whatever level of pattern there is.

748
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 4: I want to think that my main work of creating

749
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 4: feed here and betting neary's ears paying off, But that

750
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,439
Speaker 4: doesn't pay off there in the rut. It's wherever those

751
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:12,919
Speaker 4: receptive dos are. So yes, it's as most things biologists are.

752
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 4: We get a lot of a lot of uh you know,

753
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 4: duff though that it's because of this. There's a lot

754
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 4: of what ifs in the world in biology, dear biology

755
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 4: or other biology, and everyone wants that solid ten point answer.

756
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 4: But it's always what I like to say, the context

757
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 4: of the situation, and I tend to speak of the

758
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 4: context of you've got some stewardship and the property. It's

759
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,800
Speaker 4: your land, your grandfather's land. You're going to get to

760
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 4: hunt there again next week, next month, next year. So

761
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 4: you take stuff a little differently. If you're chasing five

762
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 4: state circle of public land, you find, dear, you're going

763
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 4: to the sign, You're going to whatever, because you have

764
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 4: a limited time to make this work.

765
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 3: Yep.

766
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 4: And to me again, I think it just circles back

767
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 4: to the context of the hunting situation.

768
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, So speaking of context and what ifs and butts,

769
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 2: and it depends.

770
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 3: Patterning.

771
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 2: You've mentioned several times the ability to pattern, or to

772
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 2: whatever degree you can pattern. You said something like that,

773
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 2: how is your understanding of patterning deer change over the

774
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 2: course of your hunting journey? Where does it stand now

775
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 2: as far as what you believe you can actually pattern

776
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 2: and how valuable that may or may not be, into

777
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 2: what degree you can actually execute on that.

778
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I mentioned earlier. I'm an old man.

779
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 4: I'm sixty four, so I grew up reading Roger Rothhauer

780
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 4: and Miles Keller and those guys. There weren't videos really

781
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 4: to watch at that time. M hmm. And those guys

782
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 4: were an agur is. Mister Rothawer was in Ohio and

783
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 4: Miles Course was up in Minnesota, Wisconsin area, and there

784
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:56,320
Speaker 4: were big, big ag areas with small blocks of timber

785
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 4: and it was and I'm down here in the Ozark

786
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:03,399
Speaker 4: Mountains in Markan National Forest public land, thinking I'm going

787
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 4: to use those techniques to pattern deer here, and spend

788
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 4: a lot of years frustrated. And then I went to

789
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,399
Speaker 4: school in the South University of Georgia and Plimpson trying

790
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 4: to pattern deer on big old blocks of timberland and

791
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 4: it just does not work that way. And finally the

792
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 4: GPS collars come out, and people have you know, great

793
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 4: scientists have said, we're not seeing a pattern. We see

794
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 4: general use areas in general use areas, and you find

795
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 4: where two or three general use areas this is very

796
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,879
Speaker 4: general overlap and deer spend more time there. But that's

797
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 4: not within thirty yards of any tree they're cutting through there.

798
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 4: So that's where management comes in. You make that thirty

799
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,359
Speaker 4: yards better, You make the betting area here, You make

800
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 4: the best betting in a mile square area here, and

801
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 4: you assume if you don't disturb it, deer going to

802
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 4: use it. Or you make the preferred food source or

803
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 4: one of my favorite tricks is we have some food

804
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 4: plots that we may not hunt all year long, or

805
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 4: we don't hunt till the late season, so we get

806
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,439
Speaker 4: the late season, we haven't punched our tags, and now

807
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 4: we have a place that deer can feed not experiencing

808
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 4: it disturbance that year. Man, those are dynamite and it

809
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 4: takes some you know, it depends on how much land

810
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:21,439
Speaker 4: you have access to and some discipline. Who my troil

811
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 4: camera's blowing up a deer there, but I said I

812
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 4: wouldn't hunt that till this season late season. So again,

813
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 4: what you're willing to put into it. But those people

814
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:33,280
Speaker 4: that punch tags repeatedly on mature deer, if you will

815
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 4: have some kind of strategy like that. And for the

816
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,839
Speaker 4: bulk of American hunts, the acorn driven deer heer, that's

817
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 4: the bulk of licensees. All bets are off when the

818
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 4: acorns hit the ground right right, that's a whole different game.

819
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 4: And the techniques you see because people to make you

820
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 4: know what I call the big stud hunting shows. I'm

821
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 4: an educator. I'm friends with all these people, and I've

822
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 4: had a really easy career because I'm not really competing

823
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 4: with them. We're of an educator and they make you

824
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 4: live in killing great big deer. But those people are

825
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 4: not chasing acorns. They're they're inaugurate is where it is

826
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 4: easier to pattern, and there's a lot of sun hitting

827
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 4: the ground. Deer get bigger, the hokey, the big Antler's

828
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 4: this photosynthesis. No one ever talks about that age. First grocery,

829
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 4: second groceries means photosynthesis with the zero to five feet

830
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 4: of the ground, That's what it means.

831
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:29,720
Speaker 2: Is there any way to pattern if you are solely

832
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 2: hunting an acorn driven deer?

833
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:31,399
Speaker 3: Heerd?

834
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 4: You know last week I didn't get tone much. Missouri's

835
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 4: post season open September fifteenth, and we've been in a

836
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 4: wicked drought. August was the driest August on record. I

837
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 4: think we got records here in this part of Missouri

838
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 4: about eighty some odd years in this county dryest on

839
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 4: the record. Sad, horrible, sad. And there was one pond

840
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,320
Speaker 4: on a ridge that held water and man choke cammers

841
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 4: glipping off, but the wind was just not in the

842
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 4: right direction. I was going to alert deer and every

843
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 4: day it's a trade off. On my guys, I never

844
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 4: see a pattern like that here, but I probably won't

845
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 4: see it if I go there because I'm gonna get busted.

846
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 4: And then today it rained two inches. There's water in

847
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 4: every little hole, rock whatever around the oozren's right now,

848
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 4: So that pattern's over now. And I did not, personally,

849
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 4: my witness is I did not quote unquote take advantage

850
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 4: that pattern because the wind was never right for how

851
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 4: I need to access that pond, and I only really,

852
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 4: you know, I just can't get to the other side

853
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 4: of it without going all the way around and biggering

854
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 4: up a lot of other deers. So patterns become This

855
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 4: is true anywhere we talked about limited cover and ad country.

856
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 4: Patterns are where there's a limited resource. That's what a

857
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 4: pattern is. Where there's a limited resource. If it's homogeneous

858
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 4: ten acres, food ten acres cover, ten acres, food ten

859
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 4: acres cover, ten acres, food ten acres cover, there's no pattern.

860
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:04,320
Speaker 4: It's a checkerboard. Well, that's what you get in solid

861
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 4: oak forest when the acorns are dropping right, food cover,

862
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:11,800
Speaker 4: food cover, food cover everywhere. So a pattern is developed

863
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 4: by a limited resource. In West Texas, that's water, man.

864
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,439
Speaker 4: You got a cow tank with a windmill pumping water

865
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 4: in it. There's gonna be deer coming there almost every

866
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 4: single day. Listen, Mountain Lion just really starts something at

867
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 4: stock tank. So I think the takeaway there, And again

868
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,360
Speaker 4: this is not the specific answer most hosts want, but

869
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 4: a patterns where there's a limited resource in that country

870
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 4: that tends to be covered because there's food everywhere except

871
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 4: after the crops are harvested. In acorn country, the pattern

872
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:44,479
Speaker 4: is where I have great patterns is before the acorn drop,

873
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 4: little heidio food plots, and we kill a pile of deer.

874
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 4: Doing this, we make a little quarter acor food plot,

875
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 4: and seventy five yards away we make a baiting area.

876
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 4: We kill a ton of deer in those. This year

877
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 4: we did not We're not going to because we can't

878
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 4: get the rain. Our crops have noted yet. We did

879
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 4: not have green fields or food plots. And then all

880
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 4: this rain I'm sure knocks and make corns down. And

881
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:13,839
Speaker 4: again in context this year, that pattern building technique we've

882
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 4: used of having food right next to cover designed in

883
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 4: a way where the predominant wins are in our favor,

884
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 4: and we've tagged so many bucks doing that for years.

885
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:25,320
Speaker 4: That did not hold true this year.

886
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 3: On patterning.

887
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 2: Another follow up, I think the tool that most hunters

888
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 2: now rely on to try to pattern deer is trail

889
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 2: cameras sell cameras, especially today. You've been using them as

890
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 2: long as anyone I know, you were doing studies with them.

891
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 3: Very very early.

892
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 2: What do you wish that you knew about cameras in

893
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 2: the effectiveness or lack of effectiveness about them? What do

894
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 2: you wish you knew twenty years ago when you started

895
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 2: maybe getting when everyone got really serious with them, twenty

896
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 2: years ago, fifteen years ago? If you could tell yourself

897
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 2: back then what you know now? What would that most

898
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 2: important thing be?

899
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 4: Look a year in advance. So I'm a huge troil

900
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 4: camera fan. But what trail cameras tell us? Even the

901
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 4: cell cam you're sitting there on your app, Oh my gosh.

902
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:22,800
Speaker 4: You know some states worry that that's gonna help hunters

903
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 4: too much. I don't know, but the vast majority hunters

904
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 4: is certainly including me, are not going to see a

905
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 4: picture go off and be able to walk out in

906
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,319
Speaker 4: that area without learning the deer. That's just not going

907
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 4: to happen. And tomorrow's a new day. Coyotes, other hunters,

908
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 4: weather changes, food, source changes. So again in Agura is

909
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,879
Speaker 4: where that food is a constant until the combine rolls through,

910
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:50,240
Speaker 4: that's probably more effective. Where I live, we don't see pattern.

911
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 4: We don't see the same buck on a troil camera

912
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:54,879
Speaker 4: three days in a row. That just almost never happens here.

913
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:01,799
Speaker 4: So but you will see it next year. And so

914
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 4: I marked on my calendar. Everyone's got a calendar on

915
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,880
Speaker 4: their phone or computer. And we have a day of

916
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 4: great activity, whether I see it when I'm hunting or

917
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:12,359
Speaker 4: my Troe cameras going off like popcorn all day. Ion't

918
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 4: make a note. September twenty fourth had tremendous morning activity,

919
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 4: and I'll be watching for that the next year. That

920
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 4: may encourage me to hunt that day the next year.

921
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 4: Even on the moon phases different and all that stuff's different,

922
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 4: the weather's different, and we've used that to our advantage.

923
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 4: And actually November fourth for several years in a row.

924
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 4: Now I've killed a good buck, which is bo season

925
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 4: here in Missouri on November third, November fourth, and that

926
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 4: is about the peak of our pre rut. Okay, so

927
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:46,280
Speaker 4: let's define pre rut up until about twenty five percent

928
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:51,239
Speaker 4: of the dozer receptive there's tremendous competition for those few

929
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 4: dozes that are receptive, and the bucks are moving a lot.

930
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 4: They're literally taking a lot of steps per day. It

931
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 4: does not mean they're covering a bigger area, but they're

932
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 4: actually under feet more per day trying to find out

933
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 4: limited resource again, a limited resource, a receptive dough. Once

934
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 4: we get past that twenty five, twenty six, thirty forty

935
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:25,320
Speaker 4: fifty receptive, Uh, there's so many dos receptive. The bucks

936
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 4: don't need to be searching. They're they're they're with they're

937
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 4: tending a dough. Mature bucks are tending a dough, and

938
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 4: then you're just sitting there hoping. Man, I sure hope

939
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 4: I'm a place where receptive dough goes by, because that's

940
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 4: what I'm going to see. A mature buck where I

941
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:43,359
Speaker 4: hope I'm somewhere that a dough will a buck will

942
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 4: ten a dough twenty four to thirty six hours, and

943
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 4: I hope I'm where he's going to go looking for

944
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 4: the next dough after he finishes ten.

945
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 2: And that.

946
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 4: So November fourth where I am, and probably a lot

947
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 4: of places. November third, number fourth, you hear a lot

948
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:00,839
Speaker 4: of people talk about Halloween and general who a lot

949
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 4: of deer killing Halloween. There's been so much talk about Halloween.

950
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,880
Speaker 4: I think there's more people hunting on Halloween. Are we

951
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 4: measuring hunter effort for the effectiveness of that date? And

952
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 4: I was just in South Carolina assistant landowner. Actually where

953
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:22,919
Speaker 4: the process or the process is meat, that is the processors.

954
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 4: Why in bordered de land I was working on. So

955
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 4: we went out that gate, stopped in, say hi, you know,

956
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:31,280
Speaker 4: shake some mans, meet people, and that processor for twenty

957
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 4: plus years in the upstate of South Carolina have like

958
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 4: a big desk calendar and every day they would write down,

959
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 4: you know, we processed nine here in the morning, fourteen

960
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 4: in the afternoon. And they had that for many years.

961
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 4: And the guy said, oh man, look at all this data.

962
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 4: And I said, this is a great source of data

963
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 4: for hunter effort. It means nothing on the wind deer moving.

964
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,240
Speaker 4: And you could see that clearly because every Saturday morning

965
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 4: be a bunch of deer out there. They're cleaning deer.

966
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 4: Every Saturday morning, Opening day they clean up pile of deer.

967
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 4: Weekdays they didn't clean many deer.

968
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:12,280
Speaker 2: So speaking of the rut, yeah, I want to continue

969
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 2: a little bit more. There is there anything that you

970
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 2: have gotten wrong over the years on that front. Is

971
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 2: there anything now that you understand differently about how deer

972
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 2: react and act during the rut, or anything about how

973
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 2: you've hunted during the rut that now you wish you

974
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:32,240
Speaker 2: had done differently, or that now you understand differently.

975
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, a couple things drought off the bat. Me always

976
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:37,799
Speaker 4: thought the rut what everyone wants to hunt the rut?

977
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 4: Man schedule a vacation on the rut, whatever on the rut. Again,

978
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 4: I'd rather hunt the pre rut than the rut unless

979
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 4: I'm travel hunting and I just need a lot of

980
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,200
Speaker 4: luck on my side. The second thing is I used

981
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:51,839
Speaker 4: to set up, you know, on a field or food

982
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 4: plot or whatever thing. Boy, I just want to be

983
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 4: worders of most dotes, and research strongly indicates, I won't

984
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 4: say shown, but strongly indicates that when that dough becomes receptive,

985
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 4: she tends to drop her fawnds or not keep her

986
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 4: fawnds with her, and go to a different portion of

987
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 4: her home range, which makes perfect sense, right. She didn't

988
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 4: want to drag in that old ruddy up buck by

989
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:17,840
Speaker 4: her fawns. They could get injured, so instead of sitting

990
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 4: there where you see twenty dos pouring into a field

991
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:24,240
Speaker 4: every afternoon, thinking what that's going to be great buck bait.

992
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,799
Speaker 4: The only buck bait that time year is a receptive dough.

993
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 4: What I've learned to do in the hiels, it's easier.

994
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 4: I want to sit on this hill and shoot into

995
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:38,280
Speaker 4: this hill where there's brushy covered, really good, high quality

996
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 4: betting area. And what I've learned from my observations and

997
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 4: what i think the GPS callers are showing, is those

998
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 4: dos once they start getting receptive, if they bump off

999
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 4: that maternal group they've been hanging with and go getting

1000
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 4: real thick covered, that just keeps all this. It's brutal

1001
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:56,399
Speaker 4: being a buck. A lot of bucks get injured during

1002
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:59,320
Speaker 4: the rut, four or five bucks trying to tend her,

1003
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:02,560
Speaker 4: they get gored. They want to get to where they

1004
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 4: can get some cover, some timber, some brush between them

1005
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 4: and the bucks that are not being dammaged so much so,

1006
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 4: I've harvested several deer with our Missouri's rudd is during

1007
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 4: firearm season. You know, I sit on this ridge, it's

1008
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 4: only two or thirundred yards. Our ridges aren't like the

1009
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 4: rocky mountains. Shoot into this ridge where I can see.

1010
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 4: If you're on that ridge, you can't see through the brush,

1011
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 4: but if you're on this ridge, you can see into

1012
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:30,799
Speaker 4: the brush. And that is an extremely effective technique for

1013
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 4: the rut. I'm not hunting a deer, I'm hunting an

1014
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:38,959
Speaker 4: area where receptive does want to go escape. And that's

1015
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 4: my number one technique now for hunting during the rut

1016
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:45,360
Speaker 4: with the gun or bow, I one hunt where receptive

1017
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 4: dos are going, not where the bulk of the dozes are.

1018
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:52,040
Speaker 3: That makes a lot of sense.

1019
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:57,319
Speaker 2: And you know, there's so many different there's so many

1020
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:00,439
Speaker 2: different kind of side trails we could take here. There's

1021
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 2: so many different fascinations and fads and favorite you know,

1022
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 2: pet theories when it comes to deer and how to

1023
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 2: kill more of them. And there's been I've done nine

1024
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:16,719
Speaker 2: hundred and so many podcasts about this, most of them

1025
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 2: all focused on how do I kill more deer, or

1026
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:20,400
Speaker 2: how do I kill a bigger deer, or how do

1027
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 2: I kill the biggest deer or the oldest deer. But

1028
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 2: you and I were talking the other day and you

1029
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 2: brought up the fact that maybe there's a discussion to

1030
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 2: be had here and maybe you've learned some things over

1031
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 2: the years about not just how to kill you know,

1032
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:39,359
Speaker 2: the biggest deer, the most deer, but maybe about other

1033
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:42,400
Speaker 2: aspects of this whole hunting thing. So when it comes

1034
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:48,319
Speaker 2: to setting goals or setting expectations for your hunts, grant,

1035
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 2: what what do you wish you knew on that front?

1036
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 2: What would you tell your twenty five year old self

1037
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 2: about that?

1038
00:56:56,840 --> 00:57:02,759
Speaker 4: Well? Uh so my journey backwards goes through two transplants.

1039
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:05,399
Speaker 4: I had my first kidney transplant thirty three years ago

1040
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:09,840
Speaker 4: and my second seven years ago. Super blessed. I'm still healthy,

1041
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:15,279
Speaker 4: super super blessed. But through those journeys, and I think

1042
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 4: a lot of hunters, we all start, and this is

1043
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 4: well published, we just want to see a deer. Stage two,

1044
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 4: we want to harvest a deer. Stage three, we don't

1045
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 4: want to harvest a lot of deer. Stage four, we

1046
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 4: want to harvest a big deer. If you mature enough

1047
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 4: to get to stage five, you want to enjoy the

1048
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 4: whole experience of deer hunting. I wish I could have

1049
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 4: got to stage five. I'm not sure I'm there yet,

1050
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 4: but I wish I could have got to stage five.

1051
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:44,040
Speaker 4: A whole lot quicker. Big antlers are awesome, right, And

1052
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 4: I reflect on this sure maybe different than a lot

1053
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 4: of people do. I worked out in Nevada for the

1054
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 4: BLM drive land management wise in college. I've seen out

1055
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 4: there found a lot of highro griphics, so I'm sure

1056
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 4: someone had seen them before, but they're not on any

1057
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 4: mapped There weren't any like billim signs. Hey go look

1058
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:03,560
Speaker 4: at the K paintings over here. They were you know,

1059
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 4: if you're not familiar, state of Nevada is eighty seven

1060
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 4: percent government land, eighty seven percent public land, thirteen percent private.

1061
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 4: There's a lot of acres that people don't walk very

1062
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 4: often in Nevada. And I've yet to see a hieroglyphic

1063
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:20,840
Speaker 4: or a you know, a cliff painting, a cliff etching,

1064
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 4: a K painting of a deer that did not have

1065
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 4: big antlers. I've never seen one of a spike. That

1066
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 4: big answer point. I think prehistoric man before history was

1067
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:36,760
Speaker 4: recorded during the big antlers too. I think that's very natural.

1068
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 4: We all want the best, right, I mean, go getters, doers, hunters,

1069
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 4: getting out of bed, going out there in the code.

1070
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 4: We're thinking big, we're thinking the best. I wonder if

1071
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:49,000
Speaker 4: we've lost our pattern a little bit, because those prehistoric

1072
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 4: hunters were definitely thinking about meat and tools and hide

1073
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:58,959
Speaker 4: and surviving, and I think we've lost our way. There's

1074
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 4: a good zillion things that X y Z S door

1075
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:05,080
Speaker 4: that will help you quote unquote tag a big buck right.

1076
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 4: And there's a few things about meat prep and saving

1077
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 4: the meat and what makes it taste better. And then

1078
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 4: to take that further, just again a blessing. I was

1079
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 4: able to be introduced to doctor Stefan van Bleet. He's

1080
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 4: one of the world's leading human nutritions from a point

1081
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:25,760
Speaker 4: of view of what we put in our body, what

1082
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 4: does that do to our nutrition? And I won't dive

1083
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 4: into this in great detail. We have an episode on

1084
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 4: it if you want to alays check it out. But uh,

1085
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:36,840
Speaker 4: doctor van Bleed had figured out that wildcott salmon some

1086
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:38,680
Speaker 4: of the healthiest meat we put in our body. We

1087
00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 4: can live on wildcott salmon. There's there's you know, tribes

1088
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 4: and nadies that own almost only eat wildcott salmon and

1089
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 4: are very healthy, have no cavities. No body fad all

1090
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:52,200
Speaker 4: that kind stuff. And he was in Ha Whi giving

1091
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 4: a you know, a presentation of a scientific conference, and someone said,

1092
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 4: have you ever test asks us deer there. Of course

1093
00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 4: they were brought in by you know, European settlers or

1094
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 4: no mammals on Hawaii except the species of bat. That's

1095
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 4: like God made Awaii and New Zealand someone's Polynesian islands

1096
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 4: of bird paradis. All those elk and mammals down there,

1097
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:13,560
Speaker 4: rodents or whatever, they were all brought in. They were

1098
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 4: not there, And so Hawaii of course extremely diverse plant community.

1099
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 4: And someone gave them some wine and liver of an

1100
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:22,439
Speaker 4: access deer and it takes it back to the lab.

1101
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 4: But lo and behold, oh my guy, it's just like

1102
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 4: better than the best pat you know, virginity vag raised beef.

1103
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 4: It's super super high quality. And I'm thinking about that.

1104
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 4: And scientists know that we have this chart views and

1105
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 4: feeding strategies like a buffalo or an ox or down

1106
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 4: at the bottom right and big old square rectangle mouth.

1107
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:45,440
Speaker 4: Just give me grass, I'll turn it into protein. Just

1108
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 4: give me grass. That's all I want. Well up at

1109
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 4: the very opposite corner to chart is a white tailed

1110
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:54,920
Speaker 4: deer and they're considered to be the most concentrate selector.

1111
01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 4: If you think about the amount of a moose or

1112
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 4: an elk, and you see that they got a pretty

1113
01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:04,439
Speaker 4: square muzzle. White tail, little long, skinny muzzle, really really

1114
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:07,520
Speaker 4: low tongue. They're very selective in what they feed. They

1115
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 4: will literally starve to death. And this research has been

1116
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 4: done in Texas where access deer and other species of

1117
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 4: exotic thrive. Whitetails really starved to death. Were the deer

1118
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 4: in same size captivity I think it was thirty six

1119
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 4: acres I remember right, not only stayed alive, but reproduced

1120
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 4: and thrived on plants that white tails starved on. So

1121
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 4: I said, if they're that picky about what they eat,

1122
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 4: is their meat better? And it turned out it was.

1123
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 4: Bottom line is we sent samples from seventeen deer loing

1124
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:42,880
Speaker 4: that'd hurt to give up loin loing and liver samples

1125
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 4: to doctor van Biet's lab. And they don't just look

1126
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 4: at protein and fat. They're looking at omega three versus

1127
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 4: omega six acci omegas, and they're looking at flavonoids and

1128
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 4: phido nutrients, which are nutrients that the sun's interaction with

1129
01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:04,080
Speaker 4: plants developed that's not developed any other way. But a

1130
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 4: deer can eat that plant and actually preserve those fatal nutrients.

1131
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:11,800
Speaker 4: So if you have really good habitat turned out that

1132
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:14,880
Speaker 4: venison some of the best meat he's ever tested period.

1133
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 4: Now you think about us a role as a hunter.

1134
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:21,000
Speaker 4: We can provide some of the best meat known on

1135
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 4: the planet by providing high quality white tail venison to

1136
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:30,480
Speaker 4: our family. And I think there's a real, you know,

1137
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:36,120
Speaker 4: badge of honor that hunters can wear by being that provider. First,

1138
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:38,080
Speaker 4: we want to be a good conservation so we want

1139
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 4: to perpetuate the species and the resource. But I think

1140
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 4: the second badge even more than antlers. And I mean

1141
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:49,680
Speaker 4: I like antlers. I got antlers around here. I think

1142
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 4: the second badge is being a provider and providing that

1143
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 4: super high quality meat maybe certainly better than you're going

1144
01:02:56,640 --> 01:02:58,360
Speaker 4: to buy at the grocery store to come out of

1145
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:05,240
Speaker 4: a feedlock unequivocally better and are better than most better.

1146
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 4: And those cows are walking around and poop, you know,

1147
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:10,680
Speaker 4: knee deep all day long. Who wants to do that?

1148
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:15,680
Speaker 4: But yeah, this research with doctor van Bleet, we're not finished.

1149
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:18,840
Speaker 4: We're taking a step further to expenseve research. We're kind

1150
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 4: of moving through it. But I think being a provider

1151
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 4: is a badge that we need to place more respect

1152
01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 4: by if you wear that badge of being a provider,

1153
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:33,360
Speaker 4: I think that deserves a huge amount of respect.

1154
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:40,320
Speaker 2: Has that has that idea changed how you view or

1155
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:44,560
Speaker 2: or judge your own success? Has that changed things at all?

1156
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:47,320
Speaker 2: When you go into a year and you're thinking about

1157
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 2: what would warrant is you know you grading yourself as

1158
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:54,720
Speaker 2: having a successful season, this this idea of being a provider,

1159
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:58,800
Speaker 2: of feeling the freezer. Has that become a larger priority

1160
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:00,960
Speaker 2: now or is there still like, man, I got to

1161
01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 2: kill that one buck where I need to kill a

1162
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 2: six year old buck or that side of things is

1163
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 2: that's still a big part for you.

1164
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 4: I really enjoy interacting the bucks, hunting bucks. I enjoy

1165
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:16,680
Speaker 4: harvesting bucks. I haven't had a buck mounted years. I'd

1166
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:19,080
Speaker 4: rather take that money and go on the next adventure

1167
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:23,960
Speaker 4: if you will. And you have to know for me,

1168
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:27,479
Speaker 4: so I've been a manager for Sloan and most deer

1169
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 4: herds need some dough harvests, not all. You know, a

1170
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:37,320
Speaker 4: huge eh EHD outbreak right now September in parts of Ohio,

1171
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:40,760
Speaker 4: those deer harvests need to be reduced for that to

1172
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:43,000
Speaker 4: recover for a year two it will bounce back quickly

1173
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 4: oys does. We've been studying EHD for others people have

1174
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:50,560
Speaker 4: for many, many decades, so we know EHD will, but

1175
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 4: they need to back off the dough harvest a little bit.

1176
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:56,440
Speaker 4: EHD hit my place here in Missouri in twenty twelve

1177
01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:58,760
Speaker 4: we lost somewhere around seventy five percent of deer herd

1178
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 4: and just a short amount of time. We backed off

1179
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:04,400
Speaker 4: the dough harvest for two years and had phenomenal honeying

1180
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 4: after that. And that always happens here. Mark Jury and

1181
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:09,440
Speaker 4: others talk about that because what happens is you get

1182
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:11,919
Speaker 4: the harvest you should have been having, and now there's

1183
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:13,919
Speaker 4: plenty of groceries for all the deer and the ones

1184
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:16,600
Speaker 4: that survive it express way more to potential.

1185
01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 3: Right.

1186
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:19,919
Speaker 4: This has happened over and over and over and over,

1187
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:23,919
Speaker 4: no doubt about it. So I've always been harvesting dose.

1188
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 4: We tend to harvest five dose for every buck and

1189
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:31,320
Speaker 4: been doing that for almost three decades, now decades. But

1190
01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 4: the reason I do that is changing from a manager

1191
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:40,720
Speaker 4: to a provider. And again there's a transplant patient. Every

1192
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:43,320
Speaker 4: year I go to the Mayo Clinic Rochester, Minnesota, have

1193
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,800
Speaker 4: very detailed physical about my kidney health and all my health,

1194
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 4: and I'll meet with the nutrition us, the dietitian if

1195
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:52,440
Speaker 4: you will, and there's hey, Grant, you know you're doing good.

1196
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:53,960
Speaker 4: Let us go away eating and say, well, you know

1197
01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:56,960
Speaker 4: I'm a while if i'll just I eat primarily venison.

1198
01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:01,520
Speaker 4: There's very little poultry in our house, no store bocked beef,

1199
01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:05,800
Speaker 4: primarily venison, elk every now and then when I'm lucky.

1200
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:11,560
Speaker 4: I'm not a very skilled elk hunter. And they said, man, Grant,

1201
01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:14,640
Speaker 4: whatever you're doing, keep doing it, because you know, I've

1202
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 4: been blessed. When you're a thirty three year transplant patient,

1203
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:19,720
Speaker 4: you've been blessed to beat the odds. And I love

1204
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:24,240
Speaker 4: of us survive thirty three years. And the Mayo puts

1205
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:29,320
Speaker 4: pretty big stock in my diet on doing that. So

1206
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:32,840
Speaker 4: venison has been very good to me. Started as a

1207
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:36,720
Speaker 4: poor gradual student, where venison was just a source of protein.

1208
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:40,640
Speaker 4: You know, we're harvesting deer for various projects. And just

1209
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:43,440
Speaker 4: kept going through that and I like it. My wife

1210
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:47,080
Speaker 4: prepares it well and I prepare it well, and so

1211
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 4: we just kept doing it. And now we know why

1212
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:57,280
Speaker 4: and we have this data from doctor van Vleet, and

1213
01:06:57,320 --> 01:07:01,360
Speaker 4: it's natural there's no feed on our operators, nor hormones

1214
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 4: or anything going into the deer. I can't think of

1215
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:08,640
Speaker 4: a better way to really benefit your family from a

1216
01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 4: provider point of view.

1217
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:14,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, how lucky are we that the thing we love,

1218
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 2: the pursuit, the recreation, the lifestyle that we enjoy so

1219
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:25,000
Speaker 2: much being out there in nature, studying these animals, observing, following,

1220
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:28,600
Speaker 2: going through all the ups and downs. How lucky are

1221
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:33,600
Speaker 2: we that that incredible pursuit also leads to incredible nutrition

1222
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 2: for our families. It's pretty special, no doubt about that.

1223
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:42,120
Speaker 4: You know. And I heard a different person say this,

1224
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:45,000
Speaker 4: So I'm stealing this actually from Gabe Brown, probably maybe

1225
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 4: the most famous Virginia vag farmer ever, brilliant man. And

1226
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:53,160
Speaker 4: Gabe was given a semar somewhere and someone asking, well,

1227
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:56,160
Speaker 4: you know, if I this salad that had I don't

1228
01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:59,040
Speaker 4: remember number six eight different vegetables on there, isn't that

1229
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:03,160
Speaker 4: better than your regenerative ag raised beef? And Gabe says,

1230
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:06,280
Speaker 4: I don't know. We've identified about one hundred and fifty

1231
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:10,600
Speaker 4: different planted or navy species on our ranch, and our

1232
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 4: cal have access to that, and those fidal nutrients are

1233
01:08:14,680 --> 01:08:17,200
Speaker 4: getting into the cows. So when I eat a steak,

1234
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:21,280
Speaker 4: I'm eating seventy the benefits of seventy eighty ninety different

1235
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:27,760
Speaker 4: plants and you're eating six interest. I think there's a

1236
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:31,519
Speaker 4: huge amount of truth to that. There's research ongoing about that. Actually,

1237
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:35,400
Speaker 4: Gabe Brown and that whole group understanding AG also use

1238
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:37,599
Speaker 4: doctor Van Biet. I mean, he's literally, you know, one

1239
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:40,960
Speaker 4: of the world's leading guys on this. So we're all

1240
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:43,360
Speaker 4: kind of pulling the same way. I'm going to wildlife way,

1241
01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:47,720
Speaker 4: they're going to the beef or agricultural way. But I

1242
01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:51,960
Speaker 4: promise you I would rather eat a deer from Gabe's

1243
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:54,479
Speaker 4: ranch where they don't use herbicide, they don't use synthetic

1244
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:58,880
Speaker 4: fertilizer fertilizers made out patroleum products, folks, than I would

1245
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:02,360
Speaker 4: in heavy rope drop iwould that the sprayers passed over

1246
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 4: the field every twenty days or something like that. Yeah,

1247
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:09,880
Speaker 4: And so wherever you are, you're you're hunting Granny's back

1248
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:12,280
Speaker 4: forty or wherever you are, you're on public land and

1249
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:14,680
Speaker 4: they've done a clear cut or they've done whatever, and

1250
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:17,880
Speaker 4: there's some young vegetation out there that's going to be

1251
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:20,240
Speaker 4: really high quality meat for you. And your family.

1252
01:09:23,360 --> 01:09:23,639
Speaker 3: Grant.

1253
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:28,480
Speaker 2: We've spent about an hour now looking back at your

1254
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:32,080
Speaker 2: life and your experiences and your lessons learned, and what

1255
01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:35,960
Speaker 2: you would have told yourself way back then. But now

1256
01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 2: you know all of this, You've lived this life, you've

1257
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:41,479
Speaker 2: had these experiences, You've taught so many of us so much.

1258
01:09:42,720 --> 01:09:45,559
Speaker 2: I'm curious what you would tell somebody who has that

1259
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:49,240
Speaker 2: much runway ahead of them. So I've got a seven

1260
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:52,200
Speaker 2: year old son who has been going out in the

1261
01:09:52,240 --> 01:09:54,559
Speaker 2: woods with me since he you know, since he gets

1262
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:56,920
Speaker 2: right on my chest, was on his first hunt when

1263
01:09:56,920 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 2: he was three, has been going with me every year since.

1264
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:04,280
Speaker 2: He's expressed a lot of interest in you know, continuing it,

1265
01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:06,679
Speaker 2: you know, wanting to do it himself, and he's really

1266
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:09,559
Speaker 2: into it. So if you were to sit down with

1267
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:13,599
Speaker 2: my seven year old son, what would be the single

1268
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:18,840
Speaker 2: most important thing you would want to leave with him?

1269
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:21,559
Speaker 4: M First off, your son's one life's lottery, right, There's

1270
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:26,360
Speaker 4: so many lessons through hunting, life, death, preparation, stewardship. Your

1271
01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:29,519
Speaker 4: son is blessed to have a dad pours into him.

1272
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:32,360
Speaker 4: And I congratulate you, Mark for doing that. You're leading

1273
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:37,640
Speaker 4: by jail. I think my number one thing would not

1274
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:40,720
Speaker 4: be some hunting tip or based on GPS, it would be.

1275
01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:43,479
Speaker 4: And I wish I hadn't have been you know, I'm

1276
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:48,880
Speaker 4: type A. I want to get it done. I'm a doer.

1277
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 4: I still have callouses to slow down and enjoy it.

1278
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:58,519
Speaker 4: To take it in. That sounds really wish you was she,

1279
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:01,519
Speaker 4: But I'm being so sincere. I wish you know, I

1280
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:05,320
Speaker 4: was pushing through school and grad school and started a

1281
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:08,280
Speaker 4: business as a wildlife consultant when that was unheard of.

1282
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:11,000
Speaker 4: We've been incorporated thirty five years. This year, Mark's our

1283
01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:13,639
Speaker 4: thirty fifth year. That was not hurd up thirty five

1284
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:18,640
Speaker 4: years ago. Actually got made fun of a lot. And

1285
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:23,519
Speaker 4: that's the old biblical prophecy, right he who laughs first

1286
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:29,360
Speaker 4: seldom laughs last. I wouldn't trade my career for anything. Yeah,

1287
01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:31,479
Speaker 4: I would slow down and enjoy it. And I wish

1288
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:34,360
Speaker 4: I hadn't been so stressed about that next buck or

1289
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:38,120
Speaker 4: is my buck bigger than mars buck? Or you know,

1290
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:42,479
Speaker 4: I wish I would have focused more on the pure

1291
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:47,479
Speaker 4: enjoyment of this tremendous gift we have. No other country

1292
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:49,800
Speaker 4: has this gift. There's while I followed a plan of it,

1293
01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:53,280
Speaker 4: no country has free access in the amount of public

1294
01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:57,160
Speaker 4: land and the quantity of game animals that we have,

1295
01:11:58,840 --> 01:12:02,280
Speaker 4: and I wish I had focused more on the enjoyment

1296
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:06,160
Speaker 4: of that. And I took my daughter's hunting mark. I

1297
01:12:06,160 --> 01:12:09,120
Speaker 4: have two daughters to follow on that trend. But my

1298
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:11,320
Speaker 4: daughters grew up hunting with a camera because we were

1299
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:13,920
Speaker 4: filming growing dear God to make a new episode every week.

1300
01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:16,360
Speaker 4: And I wish I'd have shoved the camera aside more

1301
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:19,759
Speaker 4: and just say, hey, let's just go, honey, helpe shoot

1302
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:22,840
Speaker 4: the bigs buck on the property. Let's go, honey. And

1303
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:24,920
Speaker 4: my girls still come home to hunt. One works for

1304
01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:28,120
Speaker 4: SpaceX now, one works for a major drone company, military

1305
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:32,280
Speaker 4: drone company, and in all that high tech hustle bus

1306
01:12:32,320 --> 01:12:34,679
Speaker 4: holders there already got plans to be here this gun

1307
01:12:34,680 --> 01:12:37,400
Speaker 4: season in Missourier's still coming home to hunt. They're here

1308
01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:38,280
Speaker 4: this Turkey season.

1309
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:38,479
Speaker 3: Man.

1310
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:41,000
Speaker 4: We had a great time, and folks, I left the

1311
01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:45,320
Speaker 4: camera home and took my hotest daughter, Raleigh hunting, and

1312
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:48,680
Speaker 4: it was a blast. And I'm sorry I missed some

1313
01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:51,000
Speaker 4: of those days. No, honey, I don't have it on camera,

1314
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:52,880
Speaker 4: don't take the shot. I'm sorry I missed some of

1315
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:53,760
Speaker 4: those days.

1316
01:12:54,479 --> 01:12:58,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's great advice for me as a father too.

1317
01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:02,519
Speaker 3: Hearing that, yes, well great.

1318
01:13:03,160 --> 01:13:05,280
Speaker 2: I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed this, how

1319
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:07,920
Speaker 2: much I appreciate it. I want to give you an opportunity, though,

1320
01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:10,200
Speaker 2: to tell folks where they can go for more of this,

1321
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:14,000
Speaker 2: because I know you have an incredible archive, an incredible

1322
01:13:14,040 --> 01:13:17,120
Speaker 2: library of lessons learned like this that other folks can

1323
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:18,320
Speaker 2: watch from you.

1324
01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:21,759
Speaker 3: Can you tell folks where they can go? And is there.

1325
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:23,640
Speaker 2: Anything that we should be keeping an eye out for

1326
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:25,400
Speaker 2: in the coming weeks or months from Growing Deer.

1327
01:13:27,280 --> 01:13:29,960
Speaker 4: You can just search on Growing Deer on YouTube or

1328
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:33,160
Speaker 4: whatever your favorite social platform is, either grant Woods or

1329
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:35,960
Speaker 4: Growing Deer or get you there. And you know, we

1330
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:39,559
Speaker 4: film I like other people, we've been doing this. We're

1331
01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:42,200
Speaker 4: going our sixteenth year. Every week, whatever we did last

1332
01:13:42,200 --> 01:13:43,720
Speaker 4: week is going to be on the air next week,

1333
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:47,960
Speaker 4: so you know, we think maybe it's relative. So yeah,

1334
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:53,000
Speaker 4: whatever we're doing, we're doing. We will be releasing round

1335
01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:55,720
Speaker 4: two as more fundings come in of our research on

1336
01:13:55,800 --> 01:13:58,800
Speaker 4: the quality of venison. I'm going to say three or

1337
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:02,200
Speaker 4: four months from now. And I myself, I mean, I

1338
01:14:02,240 --> 01:14:05,040
Speaker 4: don't know the results yet. I'm super excited about this.

1339
01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:08,400
Speaker 4: This is more focused on something called flavonoids, which is

1340
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:10,080
Speaker 4: was not it. I don't even know if that was

1341
01:14:10,120 --> 01:14:13,400
Speaker 4: a term five years ago. This is not only what

1342
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:17,720
Speaker 4: gives meat or plants flavor, but those are extremely complex

1343
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:23,360
Speaker 4: chemical compounds that turns out impacts our health in many ways.

1344
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:26,920
Speaker 4: And I'm so excited to I've been getting to benefit

1345
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:30,639
Speaker 4: from it as a primary venison diet. But what does

1346
01:14:30,680 --> 01:14:34,080
Speaker 4: that really mean? And one thing I'll share in Mark.

1347
01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:35,400
Speaker 4: I know we need to wrap up here, but we

1348
01:14:35,479 --> 01:14:39,240
Speaker 4: found that deer harvest diod earlier in season before they

1349
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:43,519
Speaker 4: started acorns. We're higher quality, significantly higher quality meat than

1350
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:46,479
Speaker 4: deer that we're feeding late season on acorns. And the

1351
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:49,479
Speaker 4: same is to be true for deer dead are eating

1352
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:54,439
Speaker 4: vegetation versus corn. Oh kernel corn. Deer not built to

1353
01:14:54,479 --> 01:14:58,160
Speaker 4: be corn. It can cause acidosis, certainly not the quantity

1354
01:14:58,160 --> 01:15:01,560
Speaker 4: to eat now, and and corns pretty closer related to

1355
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:06,200
Speaker 4: acorns nutritionally speaking. So those you know, don't wait till well.

1356
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:07,439
Speaker 4: I got to get my buck and I'm going to

1357
01:15:07,479 --> 01:15:10,280
Speaker 4: harvest my dough field that freezer from day one. We

1358
01:15:10,320 --> 01:15:14,040
Speaker 4: tried to start harvesting does day one, and that will

1359
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:17,839
Speaker 4: be better quality meet and help you meet your management objectives. Awesome.

1360
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:22,640
Speaker 2: That is very interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing the

1361
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:25,160
Speaker 2: rest of those results. So please, please, I know you

1362
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:29,040
Speaker 2: will keep us all posted and continue the great work

1363
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:31,000
Speaker 2: You've been doing now for so many years.

1364
01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:34,080
Speaker 3: And it's been fun to watch the growing deer journey.

1365
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:37,439
Speaker 2: I've been, you know, doing this wired hunting thing right

1366
01:15:37,479 --> 01:15:40,400
Speaker 2: around that same time length and since you start growing deer,

1367
01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:43,800
Speaker 2: and you've been a model for me to watch and

1368
01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:46,680
Speaker 2: to learn from. So I appreciate all that, Grant and

1369
01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:48,200
Speaker 2: everything you've done to help me over the years.

1370
01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:49,920
Speaker 3: Thank you, Mark.

1371
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:52,840
Speaker 4: Thank you for all the information you've shared and the friendship.

1372
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:56,720
Speaker 4: I remember you came here many many years ago, one

1373
01:15:56,720 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 4: of the first DISSL cameras I saw. We did some

1374
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:02,599
Speaker 4: most stuff in a So thank you for your friendship

1375
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:05,400
Speaker 4: and staying true to your mission. Mark, I appreciate you.

1376
01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:08,400
Speaker 3: Let's uh, let's chat against sotogram.

1377
01:16:09,439 --> 01:16:10,160
Speaker 4: Take care mar.

1378
01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:14,479
Speaker 3: All right, and.

1379
01:16:14,439 --> 01:16:16,679
Speaker 2: That's gonna do it. Thank you for joining me today.

1380
01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:19,040
Speaker 2: I appreciate you being a part of this community. I

1381
01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:21,280
Speaker 2: appreciate you listening to me and Grant here rad along

1382
01:16:21,400 --> 01:16:23,960
Speaker 2: for an hour or so, and I hope you've had

1383
01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:26,719
Speaker 2: a wonderful start to your hunting season. If it has begun,

1384
01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:29,719
Speaker 2: and if you are just about to begin, I'm pulling

1385
01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:30,520
Speaker 2: for you.

1386
01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:31,920
Speaker 3: You know, my fingers crossed for you.

1387
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:34,720
Speaker 2: Good luck out there, have a lot of fun, and

1388
01:16:34,920 --> 01:16:37,120
Speaker 2: stay wired to hunt.