1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Why won't he go away? 2 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,920 Speaker 1: Can I put it any more simply than that he 3 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: has an affair, you don't get the death penalty for that. 4 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: It becomes a public affair. With his hands stuck on 5 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: Amber Fry's rear end at a Christmas party. Then his 6 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: wife Lacy goes missing, nine months pregnant with their first child, Connor. 7 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 1: She turns up dead in the San Francisco Bay, his 8 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: fishing hole, where he says he was fishing on a 9 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: cold and rainy day just before Christmas, the day she 10 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: goes missing. What a coinkie inc Believe it or not. 11 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: Once again, the Scott Peterson murder conviction is in peril. 12 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: And yes, I know there's been a lot of mockumentaries 13 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: about Scott Peterson suggesting he's innocent. That's to get ratings. 14 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 1: That's not true. I was there every single day of 15 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: the trial. I heard all the testimony, and I agree 16 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: with a jury he did it. He did it. And 17 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 1: now after he has been excused from the death penalty, 18 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: now is there a chance he's not even going to 19 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: do the rest of his life sentence? Is this really happening? 20 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: I don't know if you. I had to read these 21 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: because my son was into gosh, was it Superman or Batman? 22 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: There was a place called bizarre Land where everything was 23 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: in reverse. I feel like I'm in bizarre Land. I 24 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: can't believe it. Nine months pregnant, first child, dead, body, 25 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: weighted down and thrown into the dark, cold waters of 26 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: the San Francisco Bay. Then weeks weeks, weeks past, and 27 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: I remember when it happened, like it was yesterday. A 28 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: baby washes ashore and it's pristine. It looks like a shiny, 29 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: little plastic baby doll. Why after all that time in 30 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: the water, because even in death, Lacy Peterson's uterus one 31 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: of the strongest, I guess you would say muscles in 32 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:58,160 Speaker 1: the body protected the baby, and as her body decomposed, 33 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 1: finally the unus decomposed and baby Connor floated out. I 34 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: remember I was there. I was on the very back 35 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: seat in the courtroom because I had been working out 36 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: front of the courthouse. I ran in just in time. 37 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,639 Speaker 1: I was the last one in the courtroom, I'm embarrassed 38 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: to say. And I had to sit all the way 39 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:22,959 Speaker 1: in the back, and I had to sit on top 40 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: of my backpack so I could see up to the front. 41 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: When Lacy's mother, Sharon Roacha, took the stand and she 42 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 1: described burying Lacy. It was just bones at that point 43 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: and in her arms. She buried baby Connor in one casket. 44 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: That's something you never forget, you know, those moments in life, 45 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: you just never forget, the good and the bad moments. 46 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: That's one of the moments I'll never forget. And now 47 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: because of alleged your arm misconduct, there could be a 48 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: new trial or potentially he walks free on time served. 49 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: I mean, as he grace, this is crime Stories. Thank 50 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 1: you for being with us here at Fox Nation in 51 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 1: serious XM one eleven, where we have not forgotten Lacy 52 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 1: and Connor. And it will be a cold day in 53 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: heblel that I ever do. First of all, take a 54 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: listen to our friend Glenn Walker KTLA. Following a reprieve 55 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: from the death penalty, Scott Peterson has been re sentenced 56 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 1: to life in prison. Peterson appeared in a sam Mateo 57 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: courtroom this morning. His lawyer says Peterson wanted to speak, 58 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: but the judge would not allow it. It's been nearly 59 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: seventeen years since Peterson killed his pregnant wife Lacy and 60 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: their unborn child. He was sent us to death in 61 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: March of two thousand and five. The State Supreme Court 62 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: overturned that sentence in twenty twenty, ruling the jury was 63 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: improperly screened for bias against the death penalty. I judge 64 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: is now deciding whether he will be granted a new trial. 65 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: He is expected to issue a ruling sometime next year. MMMM. Now, 66 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,559 Speaker 1: as much as I don't like it, I understand why 67 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: that happened. It happened because certain jurars were not questioned 68 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: individually and further questioned about whether they had a bias 69 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 1: for or against the death penalty. You have to do 70 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: that in a death penalty case. It's just really that simple. 71 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 1: With me and I'll star penalty. Make sense of what 72 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: we know right now is Scott Peterson. Yet again, it's 73 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: like a roller coaster when you go over the very 74 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: top hill and you fly down and then all of 75 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: a sudden, there's another one. There's another one. That's what 76 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 1: it feels like with a Scott Peterson conviction. Here's another one. 77 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 1: Jill Carson is with me, high profile lawyer joining us 78 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: out of Jacksonville. Former FBI agent, author of arrest proof yourself, 79 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: and you can find him at del Carson Law dot com. 80 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: We're now psychologists joining us out of Manhattan. Karen Start 81 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: at Karen Start dot com. Karen with a C. Greg Smith, 82 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: Special Deputy Sheriff, Johnson County, Executive Director of the Kelsey 83 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: Smith Foundation, and you can find him at Kelsey's Army 84 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 1: dot com. Doctor at Michelle Duprie, longtime friend and colleague, 85 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: former forensic pathologist, medical examiner, and author of and This 86 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 1: is a great book at Homicide Investigation Field Guide. But 87 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 1: first to Crimeoline dot com investigative reporter Alexis Terreschuk. Alexis, 88 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: does it never end with this guy? All the affairs, 89 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: all the lies, the dyeing the hair, the trying to 90 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 1: leave the country, the line you remember when he was 91 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 1: telling Amber Fry he was I think in Paris for 92 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: New Year, and he was really hiding behind his mommy 93 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: and daddy at a vigil for his missing wife Lacy, 94 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: that he killed, remember him, And he even lied. He 95 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: didn't lie just to Lacy's family, he didn't lie to 96 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: his own family. He was also lying to Amber Well 97 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: one that he was in Paris, but two he initially 98 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: said when he very first met her, his wife was dead. 99 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: Before Lacy had even gone missing, he told Amber that 100 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,679 Speaker 1: his wife was dead and this would be his first 101 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: Christmas as a widow. I mean, wait a minute, del Carson. 102 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: You're's a hot shot defense attorney, no offense, But what 103 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: do you do with that? Your client is either a 104 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: killer or he is clairvoyant. And you've told me before 105 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: you don't believe in clairvoyance, so I guess that means 106 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: he's a killer. That's why you don't run your mouth 107 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: if you're a criminal. But he did. So what do 108 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: you do with that? You know, don't play look here, 109 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: not there with me. Don't even start that with me. 110 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: I ask you, why do you do with that? As 111 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: a defense attorney? When your client says, yeah, this is 112 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: my first Christmas as a widow, and guess what a 113 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: month later it is his first Christmas as a widow. 114 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: You try to discredit the alligator, right, the aledger? Are 115 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: you calling Amber Fry an alligator? I know what you're doing, 116 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: you know, long story short, this this guy so alexis 117 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: terres Shick. Didn't we just get out of court? Didn't 118 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: we just have finish a hearing for Scott Peterson where 119 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 1: his death penalty conviction was not down to life? Did 120 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: that not just happen? That did just happen? And then 121 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: and you know, so there was a trial, there would 122 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: be hearing about it and not a trial. There was 123 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: not a trial. There was a hearing hearing and Scott 124 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: have you dasty to ask? Calling him Scott? It's like 125 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 1: you call OJ Simpson, Oj, where are you going to 126 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: go out and have a drink after this program? Noah? 127 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: Do you think he's going to invite over to dinner 128 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: and sell blocking d what got Peterson wanted to speak 129 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: and the judge just said no way. But you know 130 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 1: who did speak in this hearing? Wait? Wait wait wait 131 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: wait wait wait wait, let me think about that for 132 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: a moment. Scott Peterson wants to be the center of attention. Wow, 133 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,079 Speaker 1: he wants to speak. He wants to open his mouth 134 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: in court crime stories with Nancy Grace. You know what 135 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 1: sometimes you know? Do you? Greg Smith? And then to you, 136 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: I need to shrink big time. Greg Smith. You have 137 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 1: seen a lot and you got into this business, I 138 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 1: like myself, well I don't know about that. Let me rephrase, 139 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: you got in this business unwillingly. After your daughter was 140 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:59,599 Speaker 1: kidnapped and killed. You could just stand by on the sidelines. 141 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:04,199 Speaker 1: You got in the business. Does it ever surprise you 142 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: how narcissistic killers are, Like, it's all about him, he 143 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: wants to talk, and that just irritates me. No, I agree, 144 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: Nancy irritates the crap out of me too. But that 145 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: seems to be a common characteristic between all these people 146 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: that do these types of things. They're very sure themselves. 147 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: They think they're the smartest person in the room. Same 148 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: thing with Kelsie's killer. I mean, you watched the the 149 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: interrogation of him after he was arrested, when they're talking 150 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: about Kelsey, and he, honestly, God thought that nobody knew 151 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: more than he did in that room. And you know, 152 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. I don't know why 153 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: that's a characteristic, but it seems to be a common 154 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: thread through all of them. You know, you brought up 155 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: a thought. Remember Karen, start with me a New York psychologist. 156 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: Remember how you and I together watched Jody Arius singing 157 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: in the interrogation room. I mean, she knew she was 158 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: being watched, and I believe she did like yoga did 159 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: a headstand. Oh, just all sorts of antics, knowing she 160 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: knew darn well that she was being watched and starts singing. 161 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 1: And then even behind bars, she won America's got talent. 162 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: Behind bars? Does the narcissism ever end? And here's Scott 163 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: Peterson when he's having a gift drop in his lap. 164 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,079 Speaker 1: He gets cut from death penalty to life. He wants 165 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: to stand up and talk. You know what, shut your pile. 166 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: He always wanted to talk, Nancy, just like you brought 167 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:48,359 Speaker 1: up the right person, Jodiarius. Yeah, there's and their exhibitions. 168 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 1: They want to get attention. They don't have a conscience, 169 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 1: and so he's not plagued by thoughts of killing anybody. 170 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: He just wants to get out there. He believes that 171 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: brilliant to blug the law and he'll be able to 172 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: stay his case. Don't remember he's on television. He gave interviews, 173 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: phone call. You know. It's kind of like second verse 174 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: same as the first. It's all about him. And let 175 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 1: me ask you this, Karen Stark, infidelity is not punishable 176 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: under the law, so that is just an irritant in 177 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: this case, the fact that he cheated, so battling on lacy. 178 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: But when I say second verse same as the first 179 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: that the serial cheating and my mind is some kind 180 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: of a narcissism because you think it's all about you 181 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: and you getting some kind of gratification or pleasure. It's 182 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: not just about the sex. It's something else that nobody 183 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 1: else matters. They're all just pawns in your game, you know. 184 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: And then when you got a baby on the way, 185 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: it's not just about you and your wife. Like, there 186 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: is no way I'm ever going to cheat on David, 187 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: not that I want to, but even I've ever did 188 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:12,319 Speaker 1: want to, I would risk losing the twins for Pete's sake. 189 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: I mean, that's crazy talk. Is that narcissism When you 190 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: are having affairs with no regard to the other people 191 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 1: in your life, Well, there's narcissism attached to it. But 192 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: it's also a sexual addiction. It's a way to overcome 193 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: feelings of inferiority, not that the person is aware of that, 194 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: and insecurity depression, it's just losing yourself and being with 195 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 1: multiple partners. It has nothing to do with true feelings. 196 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: Like I keep saying, Nancy, this is absolutely what you 197 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,559 Speaker 1: need to know about a killer. There is no conscience, 198 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: so each person has no real meaning. Even if he 199 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:58,200 Speaker 1: intended to kill Lacy so it could be with Amber, 200 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 1: it had nothing to do with feeling. It just was 201 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: moving on to the next person. They are all dolls 202 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: to him, not people. And once again, as Alexis Tresha 203 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: just pointed out, he gets in court, he's getting this 204 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 1: huge gift of his DP knocked down to life and 205 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: he wants to take the mic. Okay, take a listen 206 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: to our cut thirty seven our friend Jim Ray at 207 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: Inside Edition. This is what happened at the last hearing. 208 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: Wife killer Scott Peterson returned to court for another day 209 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: of reckoning. This just released mugshot shows him as he 210 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: looks now age forty nine, little change from seventeen years 211 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: ago when he stood trial from murdering his pregnant wife 212 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: Lacy and their unborn son, Connor, in a case that 213 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: riveted the nation. Peterson's family marched into the courtroom. He 214 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: did see them and gave them a big, warm smile 215 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: when he entered the courtroom. Lacey's family was also present, 216 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: but came through a private door. At today's hearing, sixteen 217 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: seats were allocated for Lacey's family and friends, and sixteen 218 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: for Peterson's supporters, it's the first time Lacy's loved ones 219 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: have come face to face with her killer in nearly 220 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: two decades. They heard the judge re sentence Peterson to 221 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: life imprisonment and he is no longer on death row 222 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: in San Quentins. His original death sentence was overturned. And 223 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: I want you to hear what was said in court 224 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: by Lacy's mom at our first drama was Scott Peterson 225 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: post conviction. Take a listen to our cut thirty eight 226 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: Jim Ray Inside edition. At today's hearing, Lacy's mother told Peterson, 227 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: I have seen no sorrow or remorse from you at all. 228 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: Lacy's dead, Scott, because she loved you. She finished up 229 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: by saying two facts remained the same all these years later. 230 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: Number one, Lacy and Connor are still dead, and number two, 231 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: you killed him. And then she walked off. Lacy's sister 232 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: Amy told him there have been so many special occasions 233 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: that Lacy and Connor should have been here for. It 234 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: makes me sick being here today in front of you again. 235 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: Speaking outside court today was Peterson's sister in law, Jamie Peterson, 236 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: who insists he is innocent. He's been in prison for 237 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: over eighteen years for a crime he did not commit. 238 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: Yes he did, Yes he did. But I don't have 239 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: a problem at all with Jamie Peterson because if my son, 240 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: my brother, or my husband was charged with a crime, 241 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: I wouldn't believe it. I don't think I would let 242 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: myself look at the evidence. And I think that's what's 243 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: happened to her, and she has been standing by her 244 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: brother in law all this time as the family spokesperson. 245 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean he's innocent. You know, I've got to 246 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: ask everybody, why do we keep seeing documentaries suggesting that 247 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:53,239 Speaker 1: Scott Peterson is innocent and vilifying everyone, including the prosecutors 248 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: in this case that insists he's guilty along with the jury. 249 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: What do you make of that, Alexis to z Chuck. 250 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: I think that there is a huge straw for this 251 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: case because of how absolutely beautiful Lacey was, I mean stunning, 252 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:12,360 Speaker 1: gorgeous woman. And then Scott Peterson. Many people consider him very, 253 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: very handsome, and he hasn't changed at all. As you 254 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: can see from the recent months, he looks exactly the same. 255 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 1: Most people don't thrive in prison. They look skinny, they 256 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: look gone. They haven't you had any time outside and 257 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: the sun. Scott looks like he's just got off the 258 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: golf course. So I think that the physical attraction of 259 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: this case, and then there's just the lurred details are 260 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: something that people are fascinated with. I think that it's 261 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 1: a story that is timeless, you know, this this innocent, beautiful, 262 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: young victim and this man and his web of lies. 263 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: Like people cannot imagine how somebody could come up with 264 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,360 Speaker 1: so many lives. I'm in Paris, my wife is dead, 265 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: but really I'm at a vigil for my wife and 266 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: baby who were missing. And then he can remember he 267 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: did things like he sold Lacey's car before her body 268 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 1: was even found channel Yeah immediately. I mean she had 269 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: been missing for like three days in the order of 270 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: the porn channel hint, hint. And here we are today, 271 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,919 Speaker 1: and there's a chance, another chance, and a good chance 272 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: that he could walk free or get a new trial. 273 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: Why take a list an hour cut thirty nine. This 274 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: is Amy Larson at k r O in four. Today, 275 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: Peterson's defense team asked for more time in order to 276 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: prepare for that trial. They are looking into a juror 277 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: who sat on Peterson's original two thousand and four murdered trial. 278 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: This juror, her name is Rochelle Nice. She is accused 279 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: of being a so called rogue juror who lied in 280 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: order to be selected for that jury that ultimately found 281 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: Scott Peterson guilty of murdering his wife, Lacey and their 282 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: unborn son, Connor. So the judge granted that extension. They're 283 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 1: getting sixty more days to continue their investigation into ju 284 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: Rochelle Nice. Now, the prosecution opposed this. This legal process 285 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: has going on for quite some time now. We've had 286 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 1: a lot of Scott Peterson hearings this year, and the 287 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: prosecution wanted to move forward with the criminal guilt phase 288 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: of the trial to get a decision on whether Scott 289 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: Peterson will get a new problem for the guilt faith. 290 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 1: Before I get into the legality of what as I 291 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 1: named her Rochelle Nice did. I named her strawberry shortcake 292 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: because she had her hair the color the deep rich reddish. 293 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 1: What color would you call that? Yeah? Okay, red At 294 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: the time of the trial, that's where that name came from. 295 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: Before I get into that, I want to ask doctor 296 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: Michelle Dupree and keep this in mind as we discuss 297 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: these esoteric legal issues, Doctor Michelle Duprie, could you explain 298 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: to me why baby Connor was pristine when he was 299 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: found washed up on the shore as opposed to Lacy, 300 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: who was basically just hair and bones. Well, Nancy, that's 301 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: a very good question, and the reason is anatomy. The 302 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 1: baby was unborn. He was protected by the strongest muscle 303 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: in our body and the thickest muscle in our body, 304 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: the uterus, and that protects him from all the elements, 305 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: including the ocean and anything that might be in it. 306 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,120 Speaker 1: So how long does it take in water for Well, 307 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: first of all, I guess the universe would not have 308 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 1: been exposed to water until her outside of her body. 309 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 1: Of Lucy's body decomposed, I'm talking about her skin. And 310 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: I guess there's not any bones. Like the ribs protect 311 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: the lungs, there's not really any bones protecting the uterus. 312 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,919 Speaker 1: Do the hit bones at all? No, not really. The 313 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: uterus is in the lower part of your abdominal cavity 314 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,919 Speaker 1: and it's really not protected by anything except you're fat, 315 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,199 Speaker 1: your belly fat, and so it has a lot of 316 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: good insulation. And again, the cooler, the temperature of the 317 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: cooler the water. That's also going to be very protective 318 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 1: and things will decompose a lot more slowly, especially if 319 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: it is such a thick muscle like that. So there 320 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: was a lot of speculations to whether Connor was born 321 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: via what's called coffin birth, which means the baby's expelled 322 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: post mortem, as opposed to the uterus actually decomposing and 323 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 1: the baby just drifts out of the uterus into the water, 324 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,879 Speaker 1: which is what I believe was proven at trial. It's 325 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: what happened because there's no indication he went through the vaginal. Yeah, 326 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: I don't think that happened. I think it came out 327 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: at trial that the uterus decomposed and he floated out 328 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: of the uterus. That would seem to make more sense 329 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: why that that is what because if he was expelled 330 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: through the uterus, there would the years would have stretched, 331 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: you would be able to see signs of that. We 332 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: can tell, for example, when we do an autopsy, we 333 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: can tell if a woman has ever been pregnant before 334 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 1: and actually had a vaginal delivery, and we can tell 335 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: that by the shape the us there. Any way you 336 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: would have passed through the vaginal canal, probably not know 337 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: because she was decomposed and had he passed through earlier 338 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: when she before she had decomposed, then he would have 339 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 1: been you know, likewise decomposed, right, exactly, exactly good thinking 340 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace Dell Carson, high profile lawyer 341 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 1: joining me out of Jacksonville. You ever had a doctor 342 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: or some other expert on the stand, but typically doctors, well, 343 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: actually any kind of expert, and they get so emeshed 344 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: and almost trapped in terms and explanations that a jury 345 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: and lawyers don't understand. It just ruins their testimony, it does. 346 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: You've got to redirect them to talk in simple terms. Yeah, 347 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 1: and they don't like that at all. Right, Well, they 348 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: can't communicate if they're too smart or think they're too smart. Now, Yeah, 349 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,439 Speaker 1: I always look at the Joys when I'm asked a 350 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: question by an attorney that's usually sort of a technical question, 351 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 1: and I always look at the Jory and say, well, 352 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,120 Speaker 1: it's not like it happens on TV. This is how 353 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,160 Speaker 1: it's really done. And then I go on to explain 354 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: it in layman terms. That's a good way to do 355 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: it too. Everybody else, listen to this. This is the 356 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: crux of what's happening right now, and the defense is 357 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,160 Speaker 1: dance sing in the hallway. Take a listen our cut 358 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: forty one k R O N four. The defense team 359 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: of Scott Peterson is trying to have his conviction overturned 360 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: and they are seeking a new trial. They claim one 361 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 1: juror committed misconduct. They say she lied in order to 362 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 1: make it onto the journey panel that ultimately found Peterson 363 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 1: guilty of murder and sentenced him to death. That juror 364 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 1: is Rochelle Nice. You may recognize her from the highly 365 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: publicized two thousand and five trial. She was nicknamed Strawberry 366 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: Shortcake for her fiery red hair. I spoke with Rochelle 367 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: Nice's attorneys to hear her side of the story. They 368 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: say she's been unfairly painted as a monster, and they 369 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: deny any allegations of misconduct. Scott Peterson's defense team as 370 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 1: large petition of Avia's Corpus, and one of the counts 371 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: in that petition as alleged that our client, Rachelle Nice, 372 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 1: purposefully lied on her question naire in order to get 373 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:08,400 Speaker 1: on the jury because she wanted to convinced Scott Peterson. 374 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: Okay to you, I'll like to stress shut climb online 375 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 1: dot com investigative reporter explained to me what's happening. So 376 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: all of the other legal avenues for Scott Peterson have 377 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: been exhausted. They his attorneys have tried everything under their 378 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: power to get this case overturned because of legal things 379 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:27,719 Speaker 1: that they haven't been able to find it, So they 380 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,360 Speaker 1: are focusing on this one. Drew, who over the years 381 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: has captain captain contacts right word. She has written letters 382 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 1: to Scott in prison, and so they have focused in 383 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: on her and say that she has lied. She lied 384 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 1: on her application, not an application. Questions is she writing 385 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 1: him behind mars Well, she said she wanted to find 386 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 1: out why he did this, that she was so traumatized 387 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: and horrified by what had actually happened that she hoped 388 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 1: that he would explain to her what the reasoning was 389 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,719 Speaker 1: behind what happen. I don't believe he's ever written her 390 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: back and said here are the reasons why I killed Lacy. 391 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: So she but she has said repeatedly over the years, 392 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: the reason she didn't put these in her application or 393 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: her questionnaire what had happened to her personally with it 394 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 1: wasn't the same thing she said she was she never 395 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 1: thought she was going to be murdered by the boyfriend. 396 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: That she was filing a restraining order. She didn't think 397 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 1: it was in any way, shape or formed the same situation. 398 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: She just didn't think that she was an end of 399 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: being murdered. It was just a bad domestic situation. Hold on, 400 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: wait a minute, Wait a minute. I thought that the 401 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: defense is climbing that she lied as to whether she 402 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: has ever been a crime victim and whether she's been 403 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: a party to a lawsuit, both of which she answered no. Now, 404 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: it's my understanding that the lawsuit the defense is claiming 405 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: it's was she had a restraining order taken out against 406 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 1: the boyfriend. Is that because I don't really consider that 407 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: a lawsuit. Correct, There actually was a lawsuit. It's a 408 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: little more complicated. She ended up there was there was 409 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: a boyfriend's new girlfriend, and the two of them were 410 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: arguing back and forth. Do you remember this? Yeah, And 411 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: so that was where that I believe they arguing a 412 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: fourth complete go ahead. What was that lawsuit about. I 413 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: believe it was like a defamation lawsuit because but I 414 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,199 Speaker 1: don't think that it was. Again, is not anything to 415 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: do with Scott Peterson or anybody killing anybody who was pregnant. 416 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 1: It was a restraining order that she obtained against her 417 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: then boyfriend's former girlfriend for stalking and threatening correct it. 418 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: But again she didn't at the time believe that this 419 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,679 Speaker 1: had anything to do with the lazy child. That is 420 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 1: what she has said over the years. That's why she 421 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: left it off because I believe the questionnaire was something 422 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: very close to what had happened too lazy you know, 423 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: were you ever become of a crime where? And she thought, well, 424 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 1: I am not at all like this. I never thought 425 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: anybody was going to kill me when I was pregnant. Um, 426 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: that is her story exactly. So is it the defense 427 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 1: contention that the only time Rachelle Niece would have been 428 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: a crime victim under their the defense definition, it's when 429 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: she was being harassed by the girl, the ex girlfriend. 430 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: Or is there something else alexis terres Chuck. There is 431 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 1: also she took out a restraining order against a boyfriend 432 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: at the time because they were again having a domestic dispute. 433 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: So there are two cases yet, two situations with her. Yeah, 434 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: so be civil, Yes, thank you, you're right go ahead. Dale. 435 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: Twenty years ago that would have been civil, not criminal. 436 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: And the result is that she probably answered appropriately. And 437 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: there are three sends why the court would even consider this, 438 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 1: And the first is it's got to be directly relevant 439 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: and material, and the second is that the disclosure has 440 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: to be absolutely intentional. And the last and most important 441 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: here is that a defense counsel failed to ask the 442 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: appropriate questions, then it turns into a problem with his 443 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: ineffective assistance of counsel. So it's a huge problem and 444 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: the Court's not going to change this outcome of this 445 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: trial in my views. You do now we're in California, right, Ah, 446 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: I had forgotten, So who knows what's going to happen. 447 00:29:55,160 --> 00:30:00,040 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, you know, very awful and 448 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: issues on appeal. Del Carson will turn on but four. 449 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 1: But four her alleged lie, which I don't know that 450 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: I see it as a lie, but because when you lie, 451 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: you assume to me it's intentional. But for the lie, 452 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: would the outcome of the trial have been different? Very 453 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: often you see that weighed on appeal and if not, 454 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: then it would be deemed harmless error. What do you 455 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 1: make of that? Well, that's exactly right, and ultimately it's 456 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: probably going to be harmless error because there's is just 457 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: a last dying attempt for the lawyers to figure out 458 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: some manner in which to bring this before the court 459 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 1: and into the public view, which is precisely what's happened here. 460 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean that Scott Peterson is innocent of 461 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: the crime. As you say, And when you talk about 462 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: the poor body of the child floating up in the 463 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: out of the ocean, you know the adipose tissue around 464 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: the body is going to protect it well into death, 465 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: and it's just horrifying. That's why there's such an interest 466 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: in this case when you have a woman who's killed 467 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: and her unborn child floats up to draw the line 468 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: directly to the killer. I want to advise everybody and 469 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: alexis correct me if I'm wrong. Prosecutor's response to the 470 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: defense is that the questionnaire asked if Rochelle and niece 471 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: had ever been the subject of a lawsuit, and that 472 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: niece did not understand that a restraining order could be 473 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: construed as a sort of lawsuit. Correct regarding the domestic 474 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: violence incident. Now see now that restraining order was against 475 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: her boyfriend's ex girlfriend, she says, with stalking and harassing her. 476 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 1: Then you've got part two a domestic violence incident. Niece 477 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: filed a declaration describing that incident as a quote heated argument. 478 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: She says it was her then boyfriend, not her, who 479 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: called police, and she did not consider herself a victim. 480 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: Karen start, Does that change things? I think it changes everything. Nancy, 481 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 1: I don't even understand how it got to be as 482 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: far as it is at this point that she's able 483 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 1: to testify if she is about this because the story 484 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: is not the same. It just doesn't make any sense 485 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: to me. As you keep saying, it's not really that 486 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: kind of a crime, it has nothing to do with murder, 487 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: and whatever she read, she read that it was not 488 00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: the same to her, and that makes sense to me. 489 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 1: I want you to take a list in to my 490 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: TV home Fox News special Our cut four on the 491 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: Scott Peterson case. When you think about what it would 492 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: be like for you with the person that you love 493 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: the most, what would you be doing? You know, most 494 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: of us would say I would be out pounding on 495 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: the doors. I would be out screaming from the rooftop 496 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: where is she? I would be out calling her name. 497 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: He wasn't at the forefront, He wasn't the one kind 498 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: of leading the search for his missing wife. You see 499 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: it from the other family members, that desperate grief, that 500 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: desperate fear. Where is she? Is she cold? Is she okay? 501 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: To somebody have her? How do we get her? We've 502 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: been thrown so much these last days that I'd like 503 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: to make a play to the person or persons who 504 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: have my daughter. Please bring our daughter home. And this 505 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: is your beautiful smile and your fun loving personality. Every 506 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: time we were together, I could feel the unconditional love 507 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: between the both of us. And then you cut to 508 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: what he looked like, what he sounded like day? How 509 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: were you remembering your wife and your son? That's you know, 510 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 1: very personally, I'm continued to look for obviously at times 511 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: when it's difficult to go on, obviously you get these days, 512 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: thanks very much. So right now again, the state and 513 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: Lacy Peters Peterson's family are in the fight of their 514 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: life trying to hold this conviction. And back to you, 515 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,799 Speaker 1: Del Carson. I remember there would be times when I 516 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,319 Speaker 1: would work in our appellate division and of course wrote 517 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: all the appeals of my own cases where I got 518 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,360 Speaker 1: a guilty verdict and argue them to the appellate courts. 519 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: But this is where the appellate, the appellate division is 520 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: so critical. In the district Attorney's office. Now the state 521 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 1: ag also has an appellate division that will be writing 522 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 1: an amicus cury brief, which is a friend of the 523 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: court brief to hold murder convictions as well. So you've 524 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: got two people writing to hold hold this conviction and 525 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: not allow emotion for a new trial to succeed. Because, again, 526 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 1: Dell Carson, you named three of the critical rationales for 527 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: whether there will be a new trial granted and the 528 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:21,800 Speaker 1: previous guilty conviction vacated, And what are the considerations, again, 529 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: Dell Carson. The first point here is that during the 530 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: vote ire, the information that this woman delivered to the 531 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: court has to be relevant somehow. In other words, she 532 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: has intentionally lied intentionals the word here, in order to 533 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 1: be on the panel. And the third is that defense 534 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 1: attorneys are required to ask the appropriate questions, and if 535 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 1: they fail to ask the appropriate questions and elicit from 536 00:35:55,880 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 1: her information that they wanted that might disqualify her, and 537 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 1: they fail to do it, then it's on them. And 538 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 1: as you well know, Nancy, the criteria or the basis 539 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: for winning something like this is an objective standard of reasonableness. 540 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 1: It's not maybe or if possibly, because as you say, 541 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 1: this would be harmless error. Guys, we are all on 542 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:27,759 Speaker 1: pins and needles as we wait to you Alexis Tourez Chuck, 543 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: what is the next step in this process to Scott 544 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 1: Peterson potentially walking free? Well, Rachelle has been given immunity, 545 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 1: So when then there's going to be the new sentencing 546 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,840 Speaker 1: base I'm sorry, not the sentence face, just another trial. Basically, 547 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,319 Speaker 1: she has been given immunity and she will be able 548 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 1: to talk without the risk of self incrimination. So she's 549 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 1: I guess they think that this is a good thing, 550 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: that nothing she's going to say is going to affect 551 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,399 Speaker 1: what happened, that it's not going to be overturned because 552 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,799 Speaker 1: they're not going to see that she was intentionally trying 553 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,720 Speaker 1: to get on this jury to throw it in against 554 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: Scott's favor. So there will be a new trial coming up, 555 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:13,880 Speaker 1: and I don't believe that it has been scheduled. I 556 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: think there's something coming up at the end of February. 557 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,360 Speaker 1: There wouldn't call it a trial, I would call it 558 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 1: an evidentiary hearing. Okay, because the next phase, to my understanding, 559 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 1: Alexis terres Chuck, is there's going to be testimony at 560 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 1: which Rachelle Nice will testify with immunity about why she 561 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: answered the questionnaire the way she did. Is that correct? Yes? 562 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 1: That is as of right now, that evidentiary hearing has 563 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,839 Speaker 1: not happened. Is that correct? Correct? It has not. So 564 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: when you say trial, that means you have a jury 565 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,319 Speaker 1: pool about one hundred two hundred people and you get 566 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,880 Speaker 1: twelve plus alternates and then you put up evidence. That's 567 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 1: not what's going to happen. Correct. Correct, So right now 568 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 1: we are are looking at a February date for hopefully 569 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: for an evidentiary hearing at which Rachelle niece Jawberry Shortcake 570 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: that you are, will likely testify with immunity to explain 571 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,880 Speaker 1: why she answered the questionnaire did you're our questionnaire the 572 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 1: way that she did? Do you agree with that, Alexis 573 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,880 Speaker 1: tres Chuck. I do, And I think that the prosecutors 574 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 1: are very confident that whatever she says is not going 575 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,319 Speaker 1: to change what happened. But she is not going to 576 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:39,319 Speaker 1: have some bombshell confession that she did plot to get 577 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,720 Speaker 1: on this trial. I think that she's going to explain 578 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: exactly why she answered the questionnaire the way she did, 579 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: and they feel like that this is solid and this 580 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,400 Speaker 1: will not overturn Scott guilty verdict. Take a listen to 581 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 1: our cut twenty if you have any further doubts Again 582 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 1: my TV home Fox News special to Scott Peterson case. 583 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 1: Scott Peterson portedly had ten thousand dollars in cash, his 584 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: brother's ID, and a smart alec attitude when cops busted 585 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 1: him for the murder of his pregnant wife. And then 586 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 1: there's the change of appearance, the new blonde hair and goatee, 587 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,600 Speaker 1: making you wonder if he was getting ready to run. 588 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:19,320 Speaker 1: He had tried to alter his appearance dyeing his beard. 589 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:24,960 Speaker 1: He had cash, he had a weapon, camping paraphernalia, water purifiers, 590 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,840 Speaker 1: everything that looked like a man on the run. He 591 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,760 Speaker 1: had way too much stuff to be just casually going 592 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,360 Speaker 1: out of town. That was being prepared to be on 593 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,040 Speaker 1: the run for a while. They catch him, They got him, 594 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,799 Speaker 1: they're taking him in. He says, I've heard that there 595 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: were bodies. Tell me it wasn't them. He knows that 596 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 1: it's them, and off he goes back up to jail 597 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 1: in Northern California. This case has been through so many 598 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 1: twists and turns. Karen start, what toll is his taking 599 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 1: on Lyce's mother, Sharon Rachel, Well, just think about it. 600 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 1: Nancy as arrences herself. Not a day goes by where 601 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 1: she doesn't think about her daughter, Lacy and Connor, and 602 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 1: now all of this is coming up again. So she's 603 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:15,840 Speaker 1: being retraumatized without any kind of wonderful solution that Scott 604 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 1: is confessing or saying he's sorry or so this just 605 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: keeps going on and on for her, for the family. 606 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 1: It is very, very sad and unfortunate. I'm trying to 607 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: figure out dactor. Michelle Dupree, forensic pathologist. You and I've 608 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 1: dealt with so many murderers and seventy murderers. I don't 609 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,960 Speaker 1: think they have in their mind what could happen to 610 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: them if they're caught. But a lot of planning went 611 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:50,440 Speaker 1: into the disposal of Lacy's body. Explain, I think you're right. 612 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,920 Speaker 1: I don't think about what happens if they get caught. 613 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,799 Speaker 1: I think they're going to get away with it. They 614 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 1: have absolutely no regard for anyone, really, I think, except themselves, 615 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,120 Speaker 1: and so they just don't think they go God, you know, 616 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: to you, Alexis Terrez show the amount of planning it 617 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 1: took to dispose of Lacy's body was overwhelming. Explain, well, 618 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,959 Speaker 1: it started with Scott's alibi or excuse as to where 619 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 1: he was. You know, he told the whole family he 620 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,440 Speaker 1: was golfing the next day, so he is gone all day. 621 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:23,759 Speaker 1: Comes from Lacey's family has not heard from her all day. 622 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,799 Speaker 1: The mom and dad's stepdad talked to her repeatedly, they 623 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,480 Speaker 1: haven't heard mercans eight thirty pm. They're wondering where they are, 624 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,239 Speaker 1: wondering where they are, and then Scott tells them, oh, 625 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,840 Speaker 1: I've been golfing all day. Scott was not even the 626 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 1: one in the very beginning to call the police. Lacey's 627 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,319 Speaker 1: stepdad was the first person. So you come home, your 628 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,320 Speaker 1: pregnant wife is missing. My husband would have had a 629 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,279 Speaker 1: heart attack. He would have called everybody under the sun, 630 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,759 Speaker 1: not Scott. So the father is the first one that 631 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,320 Speaker 1: called the police, and he said, my son, or I 632 00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 1: probably called him son because they were so close, but 633 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: my daughter's hush was out golfing. He came home and 634 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,640 Speaker 1: she is missing. While it turned out Scott then told 635 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:07,440 Speaker 1: the police, well, I wasn't really golfing at all. I 636 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,799 Speaker 1: was fishing. He wasn't fishing, he was dumping Lacy and 637 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:15,640 Speaker 1: Connor's body in the San Francisco Bay. So much water 638 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,760 Speaker 1: has gone under the bridge right now, and the fact 639 00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:25,080 Speaker 1: that this Jurard Strawberry Shortcake has been given immunity means 640 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,759 Speaker 1: there is no way that she's not going to take 641 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:33,760 Speaker 1: the stand. She will testify. We wait, along with Lacy's family, 642 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,520 Speaker 1: as justice and falls. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off, 643 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,