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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Jesse Smollett the race attack hoax. Sir, well,

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Speaker 1: we thought his case was overright. The former Empire star

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Speaker 1: was convicted for orchestrating a race attack hoax, stirring up much,

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Speaker 1: much anger and dissension and hurt feelings. Well, guess what

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Speaker 1: in the last hours. I hope you're sitting down. You

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Speaker 1: may need to lay down for this one. The Illinois

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court, in its wisdom, has reversed Jesse Smollett's conviction.

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Speaker 1: That's right, his twenty twenty one conviction has been overturned.

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Speaker 1: Why the Illinois Supreme Court says his second prosecutor after

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Speaker 1: charges were initially dropped was the reason for the reversal.

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Speaker 1: The court said, today we resolve a question about the

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Speaker 1: state's responsibility to honor agreements it makes with defendants. Specifically,

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Speaker 1: we address whether a dismissal of a case by an

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Speaker 1: all pross that's Latin for refusing to prosecute allows the

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Speaker 1: state to bring a second prosecution when the first dismissal

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Speaker 1: was part of an agreement with the defendant and the

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Speaker 1: defendant performs his part of the plea bargain. In other words,

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Speaker 1: the state oh this is such a bad decision by

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Speaker 1: the state. The state offered Smilett a deal, and their

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Speaker 1: part of the deal was they would all prosper drop

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Speaker 1: his case. Well, after that deal was struck, Smollett got

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Speaker 1: new charges and was convicted of falsely reporting a hate

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Speaker 1: crime against him. Smolett claimed he was hated because he

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Speaker 1: is black and gay. Okay, it turns out he arranged

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Speaker 1: the whole attack to try to get pr and to

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Speaker 1: pay raise. He was already bringing down tens of thousands

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Speaker 1: of dollars per episode on Empire. Greedy, Greedy Liar. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He was found guilty of five of six disorderly conduct charges.

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Speaker 1: The grand jury had returned a six count indictment against

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Speaker 1: him before that. He was sentenced to one hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty days in jail, thirty months of probation, ordered to

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Speaker 1: pay about one hundred and thirty thousand dollars in restitution.

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Speaker 1: All in, he served six days of the sentence. Uh, please,

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Speaker 1: now is reversed. Okay, what happened?

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Speaker 2: You know, it's two o'clock in the morning.

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Speaker 3: You're going to subway sub Speria is.

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Speaker 2: Open twenty four hours.

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Speaker 4: Like, people kill me when they say things like that,

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Speaker 4: because It's like subway is open twenty four hours for

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Speaker 4: a reason, so that when you're hungry at night and

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Speaker 4: you ain't got no food, you go to subway the

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Speaker 4: camera facing north. How is that my issue? It feels

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Speaker 4: like if I had said it was a Muslim or.

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Speaker 2: A Mexican.

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Speaker 4: Or someone black, I feel like the doubters would have

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Speaker 4: supported me a lot, much more, a lot more. And

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Speaker 4: that says a lot about the place that we are

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Speaker 4: in our country right now, the.

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Speaker 2: Fact that we have these fear mongols, these people that.

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Speaker 4: Are trying to separate us, and.

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Speaker 2: It's just not okay. It's just not okay.

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Speaker 4: And for all of the people, the next time that

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Speaker 4: you see someone report something, maybe well after the fact

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Speaker 4: that it happened, and you say to them, well, why

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Speaker 4: are you waiting until now? Just remember that mine was

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Speaker 4: reported right away and look what has happened.

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Speaker 1: You are hearing TV star Jesse Smollette talking to superstar

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Speaker 1: Robin Roberts on GMA at ABC talking about people who

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Speaker 1: have doubted his story that he was attacked by I

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Speaker 1: believe it started as two white males, that it changed

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Speaker 1: at some point wearing red maga hats. I believe is

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Speaker 1: how the story started. That also has changed to am

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Speaker 1: in the morning coming out of a subway sandwich shop.

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Speaker 1: According to Jesse Simolette, everyone knows him big star on Empire.

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Speaker 1: He was attacked the purpose through acid on him, put

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Speaker 1: a rope around his neck. It's my understanding. He called

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Speaker 1: his manager and not nine one one. When he walked

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Speaker 1: back home. He then called nine one one When police arrived,

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Speaker 1: they found him sitting there and roughed up and the

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Speaker 1: rope steal around his neck. What is the truth. If

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Speaker 1: this is the truth, who attacked him? If it's not

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Speaker 1: the truth, will the Empire star go to jail for

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Speaker 1: pulling a hoax? When he talks about his detractors dividing people,

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Speaker 1: is he the one that's dividing people? And again, this

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Speaker 1: is not about politics. I think all politicians lie, every

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Speaker 1: single one of them. This is about a potential hoax

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Speaker 1: on police or a horrible hate crime with me an

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Speaker 1: all star panel for forensics, Xi burnand boy do we

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Speaker 1: need her now? Karen Smith out of the Florida jurisdiction.

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Speaker 1: Renowned criminal attorney, Darryl Cohen, former prosecutor joining me from Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: joining me from La psychoanalyst doctor Bethany Marshall and joining

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Speaker 1: me right now, crime online dot COM's Ellenclaurin e K.

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Speaker 1: Let's just start at the beginning. Now, Typically when I'm

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Speaker 1: hungry at two o'clock, I get something anything, usually the

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Speaker 1: wrong thing, out of the fridge, eat it, and go

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Speaker 1: back to sleep. All right. Usually I don't feel like

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Speaker 1: getting up and even going to the fridge because I'm exhausted.

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Speaker 1: But let's just start with a two am subway sandwich call.

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Speaker 5: Go.

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Speaker 6: Well, it does appear that Jossy Samallet had arrived to

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Speaker 6: the airport in Chicago Lake, so I don't think this

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Speaker 6: was a matter of him waking up in the middle

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Speaker 6: of that and going out to the freezing cold in

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Speaker 6: the subway. It was a very cold day, though, and

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Speaker 6: he's he tells police that he's on his way home

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Speaker 6: with his subway sandwich.

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Speaker 2: We wait, wha wait.

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Speaker 1: Wait wait wait wait wait wait, this is in Chicago, correct,

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Speaker 1: that's right, doctor Bethany. He must have been very hungry,

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Speaker 1: very hungry.

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Speaker 7: Indeed, his tummy must have been growling at two in

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Speaker 7: the morning, because you know, Chicago has those that windshill factor.

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Speaker 5: So if it's.

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Speaker 7: Twenty degrees out, regular temperature the wind starts blowing forty

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Speaker 7: fifty degree below windschill. I did my undergraduate work there.

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Speaker 7: Nobody goes out at two.

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Speaker 1: See Darryl Cohen, renowned Atlanta criminal defense attorney, is gnashing

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Speaker 1: his teeth and twitching his tail right now because he

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Speaker 1: thinks the temp has nothing to do with any of this.

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Speaker 1: But that's why I always like to start Darryl, not

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Speaker 1: with just the temperature, but the beginning. The beginning is

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Speaker 1: he wakes up, according to his story, at two a m.

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Speaker 1: And instead of getting leftover Pietz out of the fridge

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Speaker 1: or a whole chocolate cake or whatever the matter may be,

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Speaker 1: he goes out in forty below to get a subway sandwich.

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Speaker 1: See I start right there. That's where I start the story.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's crazy. I'm not saying it didn't happen.

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Speaker 1: I just think that's Craig cray.

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Speaker 6: Well.

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Speaker 5: I'm wondering if subway was actually open at two in

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Speaker 5: the morning.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're twenty four hour. Yeah, I love Subway. Although

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Speaker 1: I did have a mini boycott for a week after

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Speaker 1: Jared was you know, busted on child porn. I guess

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Speaker 1: it was their spokesperson. But long story, short, Darryl Cohen.

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Speaker 1: I mean, a defense attorney would argue that has absolutely

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Speaker 1: nothing to do with it.

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Speaker 5: I don't think it has anything to do with it.

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Speaker 5: I think what has to do with it is did

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Speaker 5: it or did it not happen? And as far as

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Speaker 5: I can see from all of the evidence that's been

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Speaker 5: presented to me, this guy is looking for a more

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Speaker 5: publicity for whatever the reason, and he is about to

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Speaker 5: get it.

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Speaker 1: Well, he's getting it, all right, Okay, e K. Let's

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Speaker 1: just go with the premise that it's true, because the official,

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Speaker 1: the official statement from Chicago PD is he is being

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Speaker 1: treated as a victim because he is a victim.

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Speaker 2: Phone.

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Speaker 8: When did you, because as you said, it was an

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Speaker 8: accurate account of the timeline, valuable information, when did you

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Speaker 8: make that information available to the police.

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Speaker 4: We gave, we had to give the phone records, which

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Speaker 4: they didn't originally ask for my phone records.

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Speaker 2: They asked for my phone.

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Speaker 4: They wanted me to give my phone to the tech

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Speaker 4: for three to four hours.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna do that.

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Speaker 4: Why because I have private pictures and videos and numbers,

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Speaker 4: my partner's number, my family's number, my castmate's number, my

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Speaker 4: friend's numbers, my private emails, my private voice memos.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what that's going to be to hand

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Speaker 2: over my phone for.

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Speaker 4: And honestly, by then, inaccurate false statements had already been

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Speaker 4: put out there.

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Speaker 1: You are hearing our friend superstar Robin Roberts aid, ABC's GMA,

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Speaker 1: she's awesome, and she is talking to Jesse Smolette, the

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Speaker 1: Empire star. Everybody loves Empire, The Empire star who claims

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Speaker 1: that at two am in the morning in Chicago, he

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Speaker 1: decided he was hungry, goes out to subway sandwich, gets

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Speaker 1: a sandwich and is attacked by two guys that throw

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Speaker 1: acid on him or bleach bleach, wrap a rope around

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Speaker 1: his neck, attack him for being black and homosexual. He

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Speaker 1: manages to get home and call police. He says, he

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Speaker 1: calls his manager from the scene. Now, I think that

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Speaker 1: is why they wanted the phone, to confirm that he

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Speaker 1: called his manager and not nine to one one. They

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Speaker 1: are being clear why they want the phone, but they

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Speaker 1: want the phone. Karen Smith joining me for Insics Expert

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Speaker 1: out of Florida. Why do they want Why do they

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Speaker 1: want Jesse Smollette's phone?

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Speaker 9: Listen when you're dealing with an alleged victim or alleged perpetrators.

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Speaker 9: The best way now in the world of social media

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Speaker 9: and texting is to get the phone of the victim.

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Speaker 9: You can look at text messages and Instagram and Facebook

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Speaker 9: and Twitter and all of those things, and text messages

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Speaker 9: especially Listen, if nothing happened, and I understand, you know,

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Speaker 9: the privacy thing, and there's phone numbers and emails and

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Speaker 9: whatever that he's not want released.

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Speaker 10: But the police they're not going to go into that.

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Speaker 5: That's not their interest.

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Speaker 9: Their interest is looking at communications between Jesse Smollett or

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Speaker 9: Smollette and these other alleged perpetrators, if there was any,

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Speaker 9: if there was any, the phone call that he made

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Speaker 9: to his manager, what time did he make it, where

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Speaker 9: did he make it from. All of those questions have

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Speaker 9: to be answered, and they have to have the device.

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Speaker 9: They can't just take somebody's word for it. That's not

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Speaker 9: how life works anymore.

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Speaker 1: Not anymore. Gerald Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecute

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Speaker 1: or felony prosecutor in the jurisdiction where I also prosecuted.

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Speaker 1: I just missed him, Darryl at the time when we

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Speaker 1: were when I first started prosecuting We did not have DNA,

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Speaker 1: we did not have cell phone pinging. We did it

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Speaker 1: old school, okay, and we did it now with the

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Speaker 1: advent of cell phone triangulation GPS tracking. When he is

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Speaker 1: saying that he won't hand his phone over, that is

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Speaker 1: a problem to me. I don't have a problem with

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Speaker 1: anything else he's saying. But when he says find you

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Speaker 1: know what, I don't have to explain why he's hungry

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Speaker 1: at two am or goes out in sub zero that

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Speaker 1: below freezing. That's a personal decision. But when you don't

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Speaker 1: hand your phone over to cops, that is a big

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Speaker 1: red flag to hay with your private communications. If you

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Speaker 1: have had bleach poured on, you, beaten up, have a

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Speaker 1: rope tied around your neck out on the street, you

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Speaker 1: had your phone over because you want those people caught, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, have I lost my mind on that one thing?

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Speaker 5: Darryl, Well, Nancy, I'm having a very big problem with

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Speaker 5: finding out why he would call his manager. So the

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Speaker 5: last time I checked, was not a law enforcement person,

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Speaker 5: was not a bodyguard. Why would you not call the

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Speaker 5: police any of us? Any of us, whether we're an actor,

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Speaker 5: whether we're a lawyer, whether an Indian chief. Whatever we

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Speaker 5: may be, we are going to call the police if

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Speaker 5: something bad happens. So, yeah, I've got a real problem

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Speaker 5: with him not turning over his phone. This guy is Jesse,

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Speaker 5: but he thinks he's Jesse James. He is having you

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Speaker 5: work right now. He's having a real problem.

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Speaker 1: You probably stand up all night.

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Speaker 2: Law.

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Speaker 5: I thank you coming up with that.

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Speaker 1: He's not Jesse, he's Jesse James. Okay, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to just pass over that one. You know

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Speaker 1: it's a big deal to me, Darryl, and I know

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Speaker 1: you're a famous defense attorney now, but in my mind,

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Speaker 1: you'll always be an in credible felony prosecutor because you

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Speaker 1: could get a jury eating out of your hand. You're

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Speaker 1: always prepared. You need the law, you need the facts.

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Speaker 1: You knew it all when you went in front of

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Speaker 1: a jury. And in this case, when you have a

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Speaker 1: victim that does not cooperate with police, that is a problem.

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Speaker 1: I don't care who he is. I don't care who

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Speaker 1: he sleeps with. I could not care less. I don't care.

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Speaker 1: But if you don't cooperate with police, then that is

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Speaker 1: a problem with me. What's your problem?

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Speaker 5: There's a problem with me, as well, I've got another

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Speaker 5: problem with that. How in the world in the middle

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Speaker 5: of the night, two am, nine degrees minus nine degrees,

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Speaker 5: it's about the same frozen do you get mugged by

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Speaker 5: two people who know you're obviously black but you're homosexual?

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Speaker 5: Really and you well, because.

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Speaker 1: He's a famous things TV star. So here here's this

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Speaker 1: is another wrinkle in this. To Ellenklauren Crimeline dot com.

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Speaker 1: Hold On, I'm gonna write this down. Here's the thing. So,

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Speaker 1: if they were targeting Jesse Smollette, Okay, hold on, they

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Speaker 1: were targeting him and this was a hate crime, how

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Speaker 1: do they know to be outside the subway at two

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Speaker 1: am with bleach and rope? Or are they just hanging

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Speaker 1: around to get a sandwich and they happen to have

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Speaker 1: bleach and rope with them? If they were targeting Jesse Smolette,

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Speaker 1: e K, were they casing out his apartment? Why were

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Speaker 1: they there at two am? And I haven't even touched

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Speaker 1: on these two guys, these two Nigerian guys that work

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Speaker 1: out in his apartment building gym, that know him, that

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Speaker 1: have been extras on the set of Empire, or at

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Speaker 1: least one of them has that have been questioned and

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Speaker 1: released and allegedly are now saying they were paid to

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Speaker 1: do the attack. But first of all, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: get to the theory. So the perps were what waiting

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Speaker 1: outside the subway samwich shop for him? I mean, what's

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Speaker 1: the theory here? How did they know he was going

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Speaker 1: to be getting a sandwich at two am if he

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Speaker 1: was the one targeted for a hate crime?

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Speaker 6: Well, Nancy, they may have not known that he was

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Speaker 6: going to get a sandwich at two am. But Jesse

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Speaker 6: has an an Instagram account and he's a very active

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Speaker 6: social media user, and we learned that he had been

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Speaker 6: in New York during the previous days and he was

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Speaker 6: on He.

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Speaker 10: Had slown back to Chicago that night, but his flight

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Speaker 10: was the lead and he came in much later than expected,

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Speaker 10: and he posted a couple of Instagram stories on his Instagram.

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Speaker 6: Account talking about how his flight was delayed. So someone

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Speaker 6: who had to have had a little bit of information

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Speaker 6: about what was going on with him that day. If

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Speaker 6: they wanted to track his movements, they could to a

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Speaker 6: certain degree through his social media activity.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let me ask you this regarding Jesse Smilette. Now

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Speaker 1: that may make it make more sense that he was

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Speaker 1: out at two am? Was he was his flight so delayed?

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Speaker 1: He was just getting home from the airport at say

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Speaker 1: one o'clock and hadn't eaten. Do we know the timing

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Speaker 1: of that? Because that makes although the Chicago airport is

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Speaker 1: full of food, but I don't know if it would

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Speaker 1: be open the food stands would be opened that late

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Speaker 1: at night. So if he gets off a plane from

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Speaker 1: New York and he gets in midnight, gets to his

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Speaker 1: apartment at one, he may very well be hungry. And

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Speaker 1: there is a theory out there that that is how

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Speaker 1: he communicated to set up the attack through posting Twitter, Facebook, Instagram,

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Speaker 1: that these two brothers could actually see his movement by

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Speaker 1: looking at his Facebook or Instagram. So, ek, do we

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Speaker 1: know what time he got in from his flight?

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Speaker 6: You don't know exactly what time he landed or got

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Speaker 6: back to his apartment, but it does We don't have

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Speaker 6: a lot of very clear information at all, Nancy, but

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Speaker 6: it does seem as though it's likely that he did

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Speaker 6: stop off at his apartment's.

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Speaker 1: First Crime Stories with Nancy Grace by Nancy Grace and

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Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Race attack faker Jesse Smilette wasn't

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Speaker 1: happy at the tens of thousands of dollars he was

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Speaker 1: raking in per episode as a big star on the

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Speaker 1: series Empire. Oh No, he wanted more, and to get more,

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Speaker 1: he tried to create a pr hurricane by arranging a

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Speaker 1: race attack on himself, making it appeer as though he

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Speaker 1: had been singled out and attacked because he was black

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Speaker 1: and gay. He staged the whole thing. In the last days,

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Speaker 1: the Illinois Supreme Court, in its wisdom, has reversed the conviction.

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Speaker 1: I will never forget these facts.

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Speaker 4: I think that what people need to hear is just

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Speaker 4: the truth, is just the truth, because everybody has their

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Speaker 4: own idea. Some are healing and some are hurtful. But

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Speaker 4: I just want young people, young members of the LGBTQ community,

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Speaker 4: young black children, to know how strong that they are,

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Speaker 4: to know the power that they hold in their little pinky.

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Speaker 3: It's been two weeks since that night left actor Jesse

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Speaker 3: Smolett bruised but not broken, and he's still processing the motions.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever been threatened before? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I get threatened all the time on Twitter and Instagram

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Speaker 4: and dms and things like that. It's like, but you know,

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Speaker 4: I'm a public figure. I'm very outspoken sometimes maybe too outspoken,

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Speaker 4: but it's who I am, you know, so I get

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Speaker 4: the idea of pissing people off, that you're gonna rub

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Speaker 4: people the wrong way.

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Speaker 3: In fact, the week before the attack, police confirm a

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Speaker 3: letter was sent to the Fox studio in Chicago with

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Speaker 3: threatening language, at least with powdery substance likely tailanol. Do

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Speaker 3: you think there's a link between the letter and the

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Speaker 3: attack and you did mention it to the police right

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Speaker 3: away out of the letter?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, just because on the letter it had a stick

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Speaker 4: figure hanging from a tree with a gun pointing towards it,

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Speaker 4: with the words that said small edge, you will die black.

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Speaker 4: There was no address, but the return address it in

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Speaker 4: big red, you know, like caps maga. Did I make

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Speaker 4: that up too?

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Speaker 1: You're hearing our friend Robin Roberts at ABC'SGMA speaking with

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Speaker 1: Empire star Jesse Smillett, and right now we know that

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Speaker 1: the police investigation is going on. Police chief has confirmed

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Speaker 1: the two guys that allegedly are identified in the video

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Speaker 1: that police believe committed the act the attack on Jesse

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Speaker 1: Smollette have been apprehended, questioned and released with no charges.

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Speaker 1: What about these letters, Ellen Calaurin, What are the letters

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Speaker 1: that he claims he got leading up to this attack.

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Speaker 1: Threatening letters.

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Speaker 6: Yes, one, exactly one week before the night of the

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Speaker 6: alleged assault, a letter was sent to the studio where

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Speaker 6: he filmed the show Empire in Chicago, and it could

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Speaker 6: be changed direct death threats, homophobic and racist language. There's

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Speaker 6: two things about the letter that are coming up more

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Speaker 6: recently in the discussion around this case. One of those

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Speaker 6: is that some unidentified sources who have access to the

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Speaker 6: set and may even work.

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Speaker 10: With Jesse, have told CBS News.

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Speaker 6: That he was unhappy about the response to the letter

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Speaker 6: and the threat that he got, that he felt that

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Speaker 6: there wasn't it wasn't taken seriously enough, and that he

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Speaker 6: was angry, and that they're questioning did he set up

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Speaker 6: this orchestrate this purported hate crime as retaliation for that.

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Speaker 10: The other thing that we're learning, and.

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Speaker 6: Again these are not official law enforcement statements. These are unidentified.

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Speaker 10: Sources you are talking to news outlets.

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Speaker 6: But we're learning that the letter was made out of

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Speaker 6: and you can see it in the photos.

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Speaker 10: The letter was written sort of like.

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Speaker 6: A ransom type of letter, with cutout letters from a.

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Speaker 10: Magazine, and we're.

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Speaker 6: Hearing that when investigators went and raided the apartment of

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Speaker 6: these two brothers who have been identified as possibly involved

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Speaker 6: in this attack.

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Speaker 10: They took away a magazine.

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Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Wait a minute, doctor Bethany Marshall. Are

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Speaker 1: these threat letters like the kinds you see on Agatha

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Speaker 1: Christie and Erkil Poirot, Like in the movies where you

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Speaker 1: cut out letters from the newspaper and you stick them

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Speaker 1: on a piece of paper instead of divulging your handwriting.

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Speaker 1: And also we are learning for sure that in a

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Speaker 1: follow up visit by investigators, Malette says, the attackers mentioned

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Speaker 1: something about this is Maga country, which relates back to

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Speaker 1: the Trump campaign. So the whole situation is fluid, but

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Speaker 1: I can tell you this. Remember the runaway Bride when

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Speaker 1: she lied about getting kidnapped, she got to cut grass

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Speaker 1: and do community service out in the pub. Look for

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Speaker 1: I forgot how long other people have done jail time,

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Speaker 1: hard jail time for bringing police in on a hoax

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Speaker 1: of an investigation, because who knows what crimes were really

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Speaker 1: happening at the time of a hoax, and instead of

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Speaker 1: dealing with the real crime, cops are out spending thousands

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Speaker 1: and thousands of dollars and man hours trying to solve

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Speaker 1: a fake call, and this one is a whopper. Now,

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Speaker 1: what do you make Dr Bethany Marshall the studio, the

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Speaker 1: Empire Studio had assigned him bodyguards, we've been told, but

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Speaker 1: according to sources, he was unhappy with the reaction to

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Speaker 1: the letters. Does that mean what they didn't get enough attention?

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Speaker 1: What does that mean to you, Doctor Bethany?

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Speaker 7: In forensic interviews, one of the things we're trained to

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Speaker 7: do with crime victims is to find out if they're

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Speaker 7: doing something called lingering. Lingering is when you make up

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Speaker 7: medical symptoms or you exaggerate metal symptoms for some external reward.

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Speaker 7: It's that simple. Now, in twenty percent of criminal cases,

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Speaker 7: lingering is involved in some way, twenty percent of PI cases,

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Speaker 7: as you can imagine malingering, thirty percent of disability cases.

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Speaker 7: The sicker I am, the more I'm going to get

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Speaker 7: some kind of reward or attention or I'm going to

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Speaker 7: get out of some consequence, like you're not going to

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Speaker 7: send me to jail, I'm not going to have to

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Speaker 7: go to the military. So what's so interesting to me

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Speaker 7: about this story is the exaggerate two aspects. The exaggerated

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Speaker 7: nature of his symptoms. He's sitting on the sidewalk, bleach

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Speaker 7: on his clothing, the rope around his neck. Wouldn't you

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Speaker 7: pull a rope off? Now he's sitting there, you know,

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Speaker 7: with the clear sign that he's been accosted. He talks

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Speaker 7: about being black, gay, LGBTQ, anything that could paint him

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Speaker 7: in a sympathetic light. He keeps putting out there. The

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Speaker 7: second aspect is the fuzzy nature of the timeline. When

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Speaker 7: somebody malingers, they usually obstruct the investigation process. They do

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Speaker 7: not want the investigators to know clearly what happens.

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Speaker 10: So if I have a.

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Speaker 7: Patient and my practice, who's malingering? You know, doctor Marshall,

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Speaker 7: I was, I don't know. My boss keeps yelling at me.

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Speaker 7: I want to bring a lawsuit, you know, I say, well,

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Speaker 7: what did your boss say? Well, I don't know. I

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Speaker 7: just can't remember. So malingering is associated with very fuzzy detail.

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Speaker 1: So is it true? Ek ellencalorin crime online dot Com

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter that smole Ed had been in New York

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Speaker 1: to audition for a role in the play that is

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Speaker 1: very oddly similar to his alleged attack. What do we

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Speaker 1: know about the play for which he was auditioning.

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Speaker 6: He was at a reading.

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Speaker 10: Actually it wasn't an audition.

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Speaker 6: I believe he's already.

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Speaker 10: Part of the cast.

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Speaker 6: But that's what he was doing in New York. He

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Speaker 6: was flying back to He was flying back to Chicago

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Speaker 6: from New York, and he was in New York because

437
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 6: he was doing a re of the script of this play.

438
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 6: And the character in the play is.

439
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 10: A person of color.

440
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 6: It's a gay, it's a celebrity, a sports star in

441
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 6: the cave in the case of the fictional character.

442
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 10: But he is someone who the.

443
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 6: Character is someone who has been the victim of hate

444
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 6: crimes that, according to the reports that we're reading the

445
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 6: have some similarities in the crime that was allegedly committed

446
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 6: against him. Just that the within hours of him arriving

447
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 6: back to Chicago after.

448
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: The same wording the same slurs, awful slurs. I'm learning

449
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:40,199
Speaker 1: also Darryl Cohen, Atlanta criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor in

450
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 1: felony court that he Smelette did not call police. It

451
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: was a close associate about forty minutes after the attack,

452
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: according to the New York Times, and I think that

453
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: was his manager. He did not call police, and when

454
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 1: cops got to his place, he still was wearing the

455
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: rope around his neck.

456
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 5: Help me. I can't help you, Nancy, because it sounds

457
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 5: to me like a setup. Did you also pay attention

458
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 5: to his voice. This is a guy that's reading a script.

459
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,719
Speaker 5: This is not someone who's upset. This is not someone

460
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 5: who's been attacked. If you're attacked, you're not going to

461
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 5: be calm and gentle. Add that to the cocktail. Add

462
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 5: the fact that he's not giving his phone to the

463
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 5: police to the cocktail. Add the fact that all he

464
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 5: can do is say, oh my gosh, I was attacked

465
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 5: and this is terrible. But he has a noose around

466
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 5: his neck forty minutes later. Really, this is a guy

467
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 5: who was look many times, Nancy, people equate stars on

468
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 5: television or on the big screen with intelligence. Sorry, not

469
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 5: the same. Some are, some are not. This guy is

470
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 5: reading a script. He saw a way to get even, perhaps,

471
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 5: he saw a way to make more money. Perhaps, But

472
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 5: what he did I didn't see is that he's not

473
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 5: as bright as he believes himself to be. So he's

474
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 5: not shakesleat.

475
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: Take a listen to CBS Chicago reporter Charlie DeMar, brothers

476
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: Ola and Abel Osendaro, captured on Streeterville surveillance cameras, told

477
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: detectives their.

478
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 11: Role in the reported January twenty ninth attack on actor

479
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 11: Jesse Smilette, according to multiple sources. Those sources say Smolette

480
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 11: paid the brothers thousands to carry out a staged attack.

481
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 11: In attacks, Smolette reported to police saying two men slinging

482
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 11: racial and homophobic slurs, dousing him in bleach and placing

483
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 11: a rope around his neck. The Osindaros were arrested and

484
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 11: later released by Chicago police. Simultaneously, the FBI is looking

485
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 11: into a threatening letter Smolette received just days before the

486
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 11: reported attack. The words pieced together by magazines and a

487
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 11: drawing depicting a rope around a stick figure's neck. Days later,

488
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 11: Smollette said that's what happened to him during the reported attack.

489
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 11: During a raid of the brother's home last week, only

490
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 11: cba to his cameras were allowed inside. Among the items,

491
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 11: investigators walked away with a magazine, a piece of paper,

492
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 11: along with a writing sample, and a wallet with stamps.

493
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 11: Multiple sources say Smollette was upset the threatening letter didn't

494
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 11: receive a bigger reaction. That's when he orchestrated the attack

495
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 11: with the brothers. The rope used bought by at least

496
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 11: one of the brothers, purchased at the direction of Smollette.

497
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 11: Sources say the brothers are friends with Smolett Olach playing

498
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 11: an extra on Empire. Last week, in a televised interview,

499
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 11: Smollette had this to say about the scuffle with his attackers.

500
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 4: He said, this Maga country punches me right in the face,

501
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 4: so I punched his ass back.

502
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: I noticed the rope around my neck and I started screaming.

503
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 11: The brothers, who were first seen in grainy surveillance video,

504
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 11: now coming into focus speaking exclusively with me over the phone,

505
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 11: saying we're not racist, we're not homophobic, and we are

506
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 11: not anti Trump. We were born and raised in Chicago,

507
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 11: and our Americans citizens.

508
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: You are hearing our friend at CBA Chicago reporter Charlie

509
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: Damar reporting about what Chicago police took when they rated

510
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: the brothers home, claiming that Smollette was upset that his

511
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: threatening letters did not get the attention he had assumed

512
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: that they would. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Believe it

513
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: or not, Jesse Smollette, the race attack faker has gotten

514
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: his conviction reversed what happened that night. People that make

515
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: false claims to police, much less to this extent, usually

516
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: land behind bars if they're regular mortals like all of us.

517
00:31:55,400 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: If your Hollywood star, maybe you get different treatment. Jesse Smollette,

518
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: superstar on the cast of Empire, to Ellenclauren, Crime Online

519
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter where we have all breaking crime

520
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: and justice news. Ellen, what can you tell me about

521
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: these two guys. Everyone refers to them as Nigerian. They're American,

522
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: That's right, Nancy.

523
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 10: They were born and raised in Chicago.

524
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 6: The reason I believe that people are getting calling them

525
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 6: their jeering is because they, for reasons that have not

526
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 6: been explained and I do not understand, apparently flew to

527
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 6: Nigeria the day after the attack and came back to

528
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 6: Chicago last week where they were met with investigators at

529
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 6: the airport. That has not been explained why that happened

530
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 6: or if it has.

531
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 12: Anything to do at all with the alleged assaults. And

532
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 12: I also wanted to point something else out since we're

533
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 12: talking about the rope and the phone.

534
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 10: A lot of the things that have come up in.

535
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 6: Recent days really don't look look good like they look

536
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 6: very suspicious, and and things are started to really maybe

537
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 6: fall apart here in this story. But a couple of

538
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 6: things I think are not suspicious that happened here. I

539
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 6: don't think it's suspicious that he did not want to

540
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 6: hand over his entire phone immediately.

541
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 10: He's a public figure, he's a celebrity. You who had

542
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 10: Allan received before.

543
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: Allan, have you ever been attacked at two am, had

544
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: a rope tied around your neck and bleach pored on you?

545
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: Because if you have, I'd like to have you know

546
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: about that, okay, because if that happens to you and

547
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: your life is in danger, and cops say we need

548
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: your phone, you go here. Whatever I mean, when a

549
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 1: cop pulls me over, which has happened, I like say,

550
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: whatever here, take it all, okay, just please leave my

551
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: children behind whatever. I don't want a problem with a cop. Okay.

552
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: Nobody should be above the law. And if they want

553
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: your phone, give your phone. But you know what, that's

554
00:33:54,840 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: you and this is me, So go ahead with your analysis, okay.

555
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 6: But what I wanted to also say is that I

556
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 6: believe he did agree to hand over the phone records

557
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 6: about the rope. What we heard in the in the

558
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 6: beginning of this narrative was that he kept the rope

559
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 6: around his neck because he didn't want to sort of

560
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 6: disturb the scene and he wanted the responding officers to

561
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 6: see what had been done.

562
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 10: That was the explanation for the rope of being left.

563
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: You know what, I hear you. And he could have

564
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: claimed that he did not want his DNA his I

565
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: don't think you get prints off rope, but any of

566
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: his fibers or DNA on the rope or to ruin

567
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 1: any evidence on the rope, so I can understand that.

568
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:48,760
Speaker 1: Now it's my understanding that he did hand over phone records,

569
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: but that they were heavily redacted. Now, according to TMZ

570
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,760
Speaker 1: our friend Harvey Levin, the phone records were handed over

571
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: and the cops reachject. The cops rejected them. Darryl cod

572
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 1: are you sitting down? The cops rejected them, saying that

573
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 1: they were so heavily redacted that they were basically on

574
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 1: no use. What about handing over your phone records to

575
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: cops and you redact them.

576
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 5: Oh, come on, Nancy, this is absurd. If you have

577
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 5: a victim of a crime, First of all, I want

578
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 5: to go back to the net to the news. If

579
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 5: I've got a noose around my neck, oh my god,

580
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 5: I'm going to rip that off as quickly as I

581
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 5: possibly can, because I am freaked out. This guy was

582
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 5: not hurt. This guy was not attacked. He is looking

583
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 5: for publicity. He may have won an Emmy for Empire,

584
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 5: but the news outlets in Chicago are going to win

585
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 5: a news Emmy for their coverage of this guy who

586
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 5: doesn't recognize the truth from a lie. He is scripted

587
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 5: and he's gotten himself into a problem. He's a walking,

588
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 5: living soap opera.

589
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 1: That's the whole reason they got into in the phone

590
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: records to start with, is that Smolette said to cops

591
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: he was on the phone with his manager at the

592
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: time of the attack, and that the manager says he

593
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: heard the racial and homophobic slurs being thrown, and they

594
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:20,280
Speaker 1: want to authenticate that that call was in fact made.

595
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: They asked on that for the records about two weeks

596
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:28,399
Speaker 1: before they got a PDF file. Now, police also say

597
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 1: their cameras everywhere in the area, but there is a

598
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 1: sixty second gap in the video where you don't see

599
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,240
Speaker 1: the Empire start, so there's no video of the actual attack.

600
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 1: I've looked at shots of the video and you see

601
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 1: two persons of interest in surveillance footage. Now, this is

602
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: what is telling to me, Dr Bethany Marshall. These two

603
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 1: guys that everybody calls Nigerians, they're Americans, Let's be very

604
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: clear on that, who take off to Nigeria the day

605
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 1: after the attack. They work out in his building. At

606
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,800
Speaker 1: least one of them does in the gym in Smolette's building,

607
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: his apartment building. One of them has been an extra

608
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 1: on the set. They're totally buff. They look like their bodybuilders.

609
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: I've seen their photos and I never see them wearing

610
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: a shirt. I mean not judging, but they are totally buff.

611
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: So you can see they work out all the time.

612
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: They take off for Nigeria. The day after the attack,

613
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: they come back, they're met by the cops, they are questioned,

614
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: they are released, Doctor Bethany, no charges, and after meeting

615
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: with them, cops say they want to reinterview Jesse Smolette.

616
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: What does that say to you, Doctor Bethany.

617
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 7: Well, first of all, the trip to Nigeria, they're now

618
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 7: thirty five hundred dollars richer because they just got paid

619
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 7: for the attack, right, And some people do not think

620
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 7: ahead when they collude with somebody who's drawing them into

621
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 7: a crime. So they thought, may have fought no big deal,

622
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 7: we'll rough them up, We'll put a rope around his neck,

623
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 7: we'll take vacation, we'll come back, this will have all

624
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 7: blown over. But you know, but they talk to the police,

625
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 7: and as I was saying about Lingering, the whole story

626
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 7: does not shake out. The timeline is not consistent, and

627
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 7: so the police are going to look to Jesse. And

628
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 7: I would wonder what is Jesse's reward in all of

629
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 7: this When people Malinger symptoms.

630
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 10: You know, I was.

631
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 9: Roughed up, I was a victim. They do it.

632
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 7: For a reward. Is he trying to up his Twitter following?

633
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 7: Is he negotiating a contract right now and he wants

634
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 7: to prove to the EP of the show that he

635
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 7: is the center of a national news situation. Is he

636
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 7: wanting to take somebody else's role in empire? You know,

637
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 7: I think that there's a reward there somewhere, And if

638
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 7: you follow that trail, the.

639
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 1: Whole thing begins to be looking and researching and following

640
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: and asking questions. I'd like to say this is the

641
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: end of the story, but Somehow I predict it ain't

642
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:07,879
Speaker 1: over yet, with Jesse Smollett Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,