WEBVTT - The Story of HowStuffWorks 0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:07.240 Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production of I Heart Radios, 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:14.000 How Stuff Works. Hey there, and Welcome to tech Stuff. 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:17.279 I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:19.439 How Stuff Works and I Heart Radio and I love 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:22.880 all things tech, and a couple of years ago, I 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:25.760 did a pair of episodes about How Stuff Works and 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:29.040 how I and several of my coworkers transitioned from being 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:33.840 on the editorial staff of a website to becoming podcasters 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:37.320 and producers and a podcast network. And I got a 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:40.960 request from Chad Ingles on Twitter to follow up that 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:43.400 story because a couple of years have gone by and 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:46.360 some other stuff has happened, and besides, while I talked 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:49.280 mostly about the experience of writing and recording at the company, 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:52.640 I didn't really go into as much of the background 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:56.080 of the company itself as I could have. So rather 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:58.240 than just do a follow up, I'm kind of doing 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:03.760 a big picture journey of How Stuff Works up to today. 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:06.840 But there's gonna be a lot of high level stuff 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:09.800 because there's no point in getting down and dirty with 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:13.040 every single era of How Stuff Works. So here's an 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:16.480 episode about what's been going on over the last several years. 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:20.600 Now to give the quick rundown. Marshall Brain and yes 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:24.080 that is his real name, founded the how stuff Works 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:27.559 website back in the late nineteen nineties, though it wasn't 0:01:27.600 --> 0:01:31.119 an honest to goodness business just yet. Marshall Brain had 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:34.200 taught computer science at North Carolina State University prior to 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:37.440 working on the website, and he wanted to create a 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:42.280 website that could give clear, concise explanations for different subjects. Essentially, 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:46.520 it would grow into this effort to demystify the universe, 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:50.040 one topic at a time, and it would include articles 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:55.280 and illustrations to really break down well how stuff works. 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.760 One of the earliest and most successful articles was about 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.800 our engines, and it would sort of establish the model 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:07.320 for all future how x works style articles on the site. 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:10.400 Brain raised funds in the effort to launch how stuff 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:14.600 Works as a business, and with around five million dollars 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:18.480 in investments, he launched how stuff Works the company in 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:22.200 January two thousand. He was able to secure investments to 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:24.680 get things in motion, and by two thousand one the 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:28.640 company had grown to nearly forty employees and the goal 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:31.519 was still the same. It was to create engaging, easy 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:35.320 to understand articles explaining the universe one topic at a time. 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:39.120 But while the site was creating content, it was having 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:43.960 trouble attracting advertisers and making enough revenue through web advertisement 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:47.440 to support operations, and that made it necessary to seek 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:50.640 additional rounds of funding or go out of business. The 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:53.640 company would also have to downsize, laying off about half 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.560 the staff. And I guess I could explain really quickly 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:59.000 how web advertising works. I'm sure most of you have 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:02.440 at least a basic understanding of it. Typically, for a 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:05.920 website like this, you were selling some sort of real 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:08.680 estate on the web page. It might be the right rail, 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:10.480 it might be a banner ad, it might be a 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:14.160 pop up ad, and you get paid for the number 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:19.280 of page views that the web page with that advertisement gets, 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:22.880 so the more people who view that page, the more 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:27.840 money you make. Sometimes advertisers also will include something about 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:31.079 click through, so instead of the number of page views, 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:34.360 it's how many people actually clicked on the ad to 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:37.440 go to whatever the the ad was leading. So in 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:41.280 those cases you have to hope for a viewer action 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:45.280 or a visitor action rather than just viewing the page. 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:50.480 So that was essentially the basis for all web revenue 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:53.080 for a very long time. It's changed a little bit, 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:57.600 although web advertising still plays an incredibly important part in 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:02.120 UH and generating money for sites that are on the web, 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:06.080 like news sites and things like that. So Marshall Brain 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:09.640 had initially served as the CEO of this company, but 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:13.960 he stepped aside for Marco Fregenal, a co founder of 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:18.040 the company, to take over, and he would leave in 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:21.640 two thousand one. Marco that is, and Dean Jordan's, who 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:25.159 had served as the president for the Carolina Hurricanes the 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:28.960 sports team, became the new CEO of the company. Jordan 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:32.119 arranged to have a private company called the Convex Group 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:36.000 purchase how Stuff Works before he departed and was replaced 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.080 by a guy named Joe kiss ak Now. The purchase 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:41.720 price for how Stuff Works was reported to be a 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:45.960 bit more than a million dollars according to the Business Journal. 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:51.440 Investors in the company were assigned promissory notes that they 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:53.760 had the potential to pay off big time if the 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:56.000 Convex Group were to sell How Stuff Works to a 0:04:56.040 --> 0:05:00.240 different company. More on that in just a little bit. 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:04.360 So How Stuff Works had been based in Carrie, North Carolina, 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:07.919 which is just outside Raleigh. The Convex Group was a 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:10.960 group of investors based in Atlanta, Georgia, and at the 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:13.800 helm of the Convex Group was a guy named Jeff Arnold, 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:17.159 the founder of web md. So. Arnold had founded web 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:22.480 m d and and it was phenomenally successful. Propelled Arnold 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:26.320 into an entrepreneurial role, and he started a company called 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:28.919 lid Rock, which used to put c d s in 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:33.159 the lids of drinks sold at places like movie theaters. Yes, 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:36.240 we used to have lid Rock c ds in our 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:39.520 office once upon a time. He became chairman and CEO 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:43.400 of How Stuff Works, and the headquarters moved to Atlanta, 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.159 though a lot of people still stayed in North Carolina. 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:48.800 The site did grow a bit in those early years. 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:51.760 It really peaked in two thousand five, a couple of 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:54.280 years before I would come on board, at least in 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:57.560 terms of traffic going to the website. But then traffic 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:00.479 began slowing down and the company had deal with the 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:05.120 implications of that, including reduced revenue. And if your costs 0:06:05.240 --> 0:06:08.200 remain the same but your revenue is going down, you 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.640 start to realize you're gonna need to make some changes 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:15.800 pretty soon or you'll be on a slippery slope to bankruptcy. Now, 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:17.960 when I joined house Stop Works in the winter of 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:21.719 two thousand seven February two thousand seven, I still remember it. 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:25.200 At that point, it was still under the umbrella of 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:29.560 the Convex Group. Jeff Arnold maintained an office in our headquarters. 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:33.760 It was a really big office, pretty swanky. Actually. We 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:37.440 would eventually turn that office into a break area that 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:41.640 nobody on the editorial side ever really used. It was 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:44.840 really nice, had ping pong table and other stuff in it, 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:47.880 and um or actually it was a foosball table and 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:49.680 some other stuff in it, and and none of us 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:52.320 in editorial ever felt like we had the time to 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:55.000 go over there. But the sales team liked it, and 0:06:55.040 --> 0:07:00.120 the marketing team liked it, but um that's beside the point. Anyway. 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:04.559 A few of my current coworkers, people who still work 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.599 day to day with me, we're actually around back then. 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:11.800 They either had been working there for a little while 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:14.440 or they joined shortly after I did, and they also 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:18.040 got to experience what life was like under the Convex era. 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:21.200 And when I started, my job was pretty straightforward. I 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:24.400 would receive an article assignment and I had a week 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:27.200 to write the article, and then a week to revise 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:31.240 the article based on any editorial responses, and I'd have 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:34.480 another article to write as I was revising the previous ones. 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:37.920 So I'd be working on one article and finishing up 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:41.840 another one each week. So I'd research art for the 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:45.360 articles as well. I would either request illustrations from some 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:48.239 in house talent that we had at the company, or 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:50.880 I would select images on the web and then try 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.680 to reach out to get permission from the rights holders 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:57.040 to get permission to use the photos on the site. 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:01.520 This was in the old Wild West Web days, when 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:05.920 even taking that step was seen as being pretty conservative. 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:08.120 There are a lot of people who were just grabbing 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:12.600 images and posting them online without any effort to track 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:16.239 down whoever owned the rights to that image. Now these days, 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:20.400 how Stuff Works purchases licenses from various stock photo libraries 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:22.520 to make sure that any images used on the site 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.520 are done so with no possible ownership problems, because one 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.440 thing that can happen, and it has happened to lots 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:31.440 of websites out there, is that they will post an 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:34.040 image that they don't have the rights to, and then 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.720 someone with the rights will end up making a big 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:40.000 fuss about it legitimately, so I mean it's the rights 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:43.600 to their intellectual property. And then typically that sort of 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.040 stuff can end up going to court. Usually it's settled 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:49.840 out of court. But that's a problem no one wants 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:53.240 to have because at the very least, it will probably 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:56.839 mean taking the art down for an article and needing 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:59.840 to replace it with something else. Uh. At the at 0:08:59.880 --> 0:09:02.600 the most, it's going to mean a big payout that 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:04.400 you're gonna have to make to somebody when you could 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:06.600 have avoided that just by going through something like the 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:09.880 stock photo route. Now every week I would join my 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:13.199 fellow writers. There are really only two other writers back 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.280 in those days that Tracy Wilson of Stuff You Missed 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:17.120 in History Class was one of them. She was the 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:20.160 senior writer on staff. Then there was me, and then 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:22.520 we had another writer who wrote what we called question 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:25.640 of the Day articles. Those were much shorter articles that 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:29.240 tried to answer a simple question each day. Uh. And 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.400 then the editor editors also would meet there, along with 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:34.839 the interim head of editorial at the time, and we 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:38.160 would talk about article ideas. We would have a pitch session, 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:42.080 we'd have a conversation about which ones we thought were interesting, 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:45.440 and then eventually the assignments would be based off of 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:49.319 those discussions and then would go out to the various writers. Generally, 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:53.160 before writing an article, the writer would create a list 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:56.360 of questions that he or she expected the article to 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:58.720 be able to answer. So you'd say, all right, you've 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.079 got how washing machine means work. Here are the questions 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:05.360 I think this article needs to answer. So it might 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:08.800 be who invented the washing machine? How old is the 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:12.679 washing machine? How does washing machine clean clothes? Like these 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:16.720 would all be the basic questions that you think an 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:19.680 article should answer, and you would share that with the 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:22.640 other members of the editorial team, and they could add 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:25.880 more questions so that you made sure that you had 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:31.160 a good, fleshed out article that addressed all the questions 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:34.440 it should. Otherwise you might overlook something and it could 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:37.280 be something simple, it could be something fundamental. In a 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:40.240 lot of cases, the questions that would get added, either 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:44.600 mostly by Tracy or myself, would be about physics and science, 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:49.040 so not just how something works, but why does it 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:52.280 work that way? What makes it possible? Though, we were 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:56.360 often the sticks in the mud that would add those questions, saying, well, 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:57.959 it's not just enough for you to say it does 0:10:58.040 --> 0:10:59.800 this thing, We really do need to know how it 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:03.640 is it anyway, it gave people the chance to create 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:06.480 a framework for their articles as well, kind of thinking 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:10.400 out what uh structure the article should take, and we 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:13.720 called this the initial approach. Then the writer would start 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:17.679 pulling research both online and offline and get an understanding 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:20.920 needed to write the article in question. The writing staff 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:24.160 took up a relatively small amount of the space we 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:28.240 had on the fifteenth floor of an office building. The 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:30.960 building we were in at the time. This office was 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:34.440 in a part of Atlanta called Buckhead that has lots 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:38.280 of shopping and restaurants. Buckett mostly caters to a slightly 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:43.800 higher end crowd, kind of a the upper middle class 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:47.120 maybe lower upper class kind of crowd, and it was 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:50.960 also in close proximity to Mr Arnold's home. I'm sure 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:54.400 that was coincidental. The rest of our floor was taken 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:56.800 up with web developers who were building out and supporting 0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:59.959 the features that made our site work very important. Obviously 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:03.600 there's no website without them, and they were great, they 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.480 were fantastic. And then we also had our sales and 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:10.240 marketing teams in charge of making deals for web advertising 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:13.200 and then you know a few others as well. Now, 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:16.520 starting shortly after I joined, the company began to make 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:19.960 a more concerted effort to build out the editorial staff. 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:22.000 Like I said, when I started, Tracy and I were 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:25.040 really the only full time staff writers. A couple of 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:27.280 years before I came to How Stuff Works, the staff 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:30.600 had been quite a bit larger. In fact, they were 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:35.360 even working on really fun ideas that were grouped under 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:39.400 the the title stuff Oh. These were articles that were 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:43.000 more kind of hypothetical in nature and and a little 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:46.720 more lighthearted, things like who would win in a fight 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:51.679 Superman or a Jedi? That kind of stuff like things 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:54.520 that you wouldn't typically find on a house Stuff Works 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:57.440 web page. But that staff was long gone by the 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.440 time I joined, and so with STUFFO for that matter. 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:03.960 So there have been departures and layoffs in the editorial 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:06.720 department before my arrival, and it brought it down to 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:09.080 that small size of just Tracy and I being the 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.640 full time staff writers. We also had a few freelance 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:14.439 writers who would contribute articles occasionally, and we had the 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:16.160 Stuff of the Day or the Question of the Day 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:19.600 uh writer as well. Now then we had a guy 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:21.960 named Carl Burne, who joined our team to head up 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:25.040 the editorial department. We began adding more people to the 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:28.640 editorial staff, people like Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant. They 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:31.920 joined on, and behind the scenes, a big deal was 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:35.800 slowly coalescing, though most of us working on articles only 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:38.240 got hints that something was going on at the time. 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:40.560 I'm sure there were other people in the editorial staff 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.120 who knew much more than I did at the time. 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:48.319 I tend to be pretty far behind on those sort 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:50.800 of things. I'm not the most observant of people, I 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:54.120 think when it comes to corporate culture. But yes, there 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:56.880 was a big, big thing going on, and that big 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:01.680 thing was a deal between the Convex Group and Discovery Communications. 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:05.000 That's the company that owns the Discovery Channel, the Science Channel, 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:08.840 TLC and more. Discovery, as it turned out, was struggling 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:12.080 to create a digital footprint. The company was doing really 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:15.520 well in cable, but companies are measured in growth year 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:18.439 over year typically, and Discovery was starting to run out 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.640 of places to grow into, particularly in North America. It 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:25.320 had pretty much reached saturation in the United States, and 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:27.640 it was hard to grow in a place where most 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:31.360 of the cable subscribing population already has access to your channels. 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:35.280 The future appeared to be online anyway, so there was 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:39.240 a strong incentive to invest in growing the company's Internet presence. 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.640 Discovery hadn't had a whole lot of success in that regard, 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.920 despite being a big media company, and that led to 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.800 the deal in which the Convex Group would sell How 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:53.280 Stuff Works to Discovery Communications for the princely sum of 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:59.320 two hundred fifty million dollars. Those promissory notes must have 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:02.800 looked pretty darn good at that point. Remember this was 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:06.600 initially a five million dollar investment, and then the value 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:09.360 had crept down to a million dollars and it was 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:13.480 sold for two hundred fifty million dollars, an incredible deal. 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:16.600 Discovery told The Wall Street Journal that the plan was 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.720 to leverage the House Stuff Works website to quote or 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:23.120 as quote, the cornerstone of an effort to bring its 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:27.080 vast library of video content to the web end quote. So, 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:29.080 in other words, the way Discovery was looking at How 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:32.720 Stuff Works was largely as a platform for all of 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:37.080 the video that Discovery was sitting on in its countless 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:41.560 hours of production of various television series. That's not exactly 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:44.040 how it turned out, and honestly, I'm a little thankful 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:46.880 for that, because if how stuff Works had only become 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:51.600 a repository for uh discovery videos, then I might not 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:55.240 have a job. The acquisition did bring with it some 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:58.920 painful changes, if I'm going to be brutally honest. Way 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:01.520 back in the day, when we were under the Convex Group, 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:07.400 how stuff Works employees had a an unbelievably super sweet 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:11.000 benefits package. I mean, it was incredible. It included a 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:14.680 health plan, the basic health plan, in which the company 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:19.400 paid the entire cost. There was no employee contribution apart 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:23.080 from the regular copay stuff, so your monthly contribution was 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:26.000 completely covered by your employer. It was just your co 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:28.560 pay that you had to pay. That was incredible, it 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:33.080 was it made medical care very affordable. And way back 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:35.280 in those days, we would also get our paychecks every 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:38.640 two weeks. It was just a bi weekly schedule. Then 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:43.160 we had the acquisition and things changed. Discovery couldn't operate 0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:46.520 like an internet startup that was run by entrepreneurs, you know. 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:48.160 And it to be totally fair, I mean, this was 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.960 a major company. They could not operate at that scale 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.240 with those same sort of benefits, it just wasn't possible. 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:57.560 So the health plan would mean employees would have to 0:16:57.600 --> 0:16:59.360 pay for coverage. There was now going to be an 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:03.040 employee contribution each month, and that was an initial blow 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:05.440 to a lot of folks on staff who hadn't really 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:09.679 budgeted for that. And in addition, Discoveries pay schedule, at 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:11.280 least at the time, I don't know what it is 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:12.879 now that at the time it was fixed to be 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:15.840 the fifteen and the thirty of every month, or the 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.399 closest work day to whatever those dates are. You know, 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:22.480 obviously February it's going to be et cetera. All to 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.680 align with the Discovery schedule. It meant that we were 0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:29.040 actually gonna have to go one extra week without a paycheck, 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:32.639 just because the way the calendar fell. So that was 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:36.080 kind of scary for some people who weren't you know, 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:37.760 they didn't have a whole lot of money put aside, 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:40.880 and so to go an extra week without a paycheck, 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:43.680 plus knowing that some of that money was going into 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:47.280 an employee contribution to a health plan was a little 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:50.199 bit of a tough pill to swallow. Now, as it 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:54.359 turns out, Discovery made some concessions to ease the transition 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:57.000 a bit. Uh. The company did try to make it 0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:00.280 a little bit easier for people, but I distinctly remember 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:03.600 early on before that happened, the anxiety in our office 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:08.719 was pretty palpable, especially amongst certain people. Some of us 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:11.639 were fortunate, like I happened. My wife happens to have 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:15.960 very good benefits, so I was able to rely on 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:20.480 on that instead on her benefits, and so that I 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:23.600 had a cushion there. But not everyone was in as 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:27.280 privileged a position as I was. Now. Our time with 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.560 Discovery head its ups and downs. On the good side, 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:32.120 we were able to launch podcasts for the very first 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:34.480 time back in two thousand and eight. That was under 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:37.160 Discovery Stuff you Should Know was the first of our 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:39.919 podcasts out of the gate, and then we become and 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:43.120 remain our most popular show in the network. We also 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:45.879 got the chance to work more in video. Occasionally. I 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:49.800 remember shooting videos in which I juggled flaming torches. There 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:52.240 was a series I shot with Chris Palette, my original 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:55.680 co host, where we talked about a Windows mobile app 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:58.160 for How Stuff Works. That were a lot of fun. Uh. 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:00.640 The app is, as far as I know no longer 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:04.000 Things since Windows Mobile isn't really a thing, but those 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:06.080 videos still live on if you want to do a 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:08.880 search for them, and they are goofy just like me. 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:12.919 We also butted up against some issues back then under Discovery, 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:16.200 such as creating a lot of custom content for advertisers. 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:20.760 Custom content is a fun way of saying, the advertiser 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:22.919 would really like you to write about this topic, and 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:25.520 they'll give you money for you to do it. And 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:27.800 it's not always a bad thing. I don't I don't 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:31.840 mean to say it's automatically bad. It's not. If it's 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:35.000 done right, it can end up being great because it 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:38.040 benefits them, it benefits you. You can get more access 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:41.760 to experts and insight than you would on a normal assignment, 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:44.879 and so if it's a good assignment, it could be 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:48.320 a great fit. But sometimes in the process of making 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:51.359 a big sale, you end up promising some deliverables that 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:54.879 might in the long run hurt your operations. And we 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:57.159 had a couple of instances of that back in the 0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:00.680 Discovery days. And I'm not blaming it one here. I mean, 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:03.320 those sales were big, and they were important and they 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:08.520 helped us stay in business. But at the same time, uh, 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:11.800 they weren't great from a content perspective. We had to 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:15.159 write a lot of articles that the editorial department felt 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:19.000 were a little repetitive and uh, focus too much on 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:25.359 some narrow topics, and that was not great. And visitors 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:28.040 were noticing too. They were we were getting emails about it. 0:20:28.119 --> 0:20:31.120 So it was a bit of a growing pains kind 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:33.120 of thing. Now, it did mean that we were able 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:35.600 to learn from the experience and establish a better policy 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:38.800 regarding sales and custom content moving forward, So it was 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:42.000 valuable in the long run, but it was a little rough. 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:45.800 Alt a lot more to say, But first, since we're 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:48.600 speaking of paying the bills, let's take a quick break, 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:58.120 all right, I'm gonna be real with you guys. One 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:01.080 other thing that happened during the Discovery years that was 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:03.960 a bit tough on some of us was that there 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:06.640 were more than a few rounds of layoffs in our 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:09.800 time with Discovery. The Hell Stuff Works team was rolled 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:13.520 into the overall Discovery Digital team, and Discovery was struggling 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:17.000 a bit creating on working a holistic approach to the 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:19.679 digital platforms. It had a lot of them, and it 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:23.720 wasn't really sure about what to do with all of them. 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:26.680 We never really felt like we were part of a 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:32.000 cohesive online strategy, and at one point I realized that 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:35.439 the editorial department had been reduced to the point that 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:39.200 almost every single person who was still on staff also 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:42.679 happened to have a podcast. The writers and editors who 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:46.240 weren't on podcasts, most of them weren't on staff anymore 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:48.840 unless they were at the most senior level of editor. 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:52.639 And I don't think there was anything personal about these decisions, 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:54.840 but it was a tough thing to see, and it 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:59.359 also kind of painted a picture that podcasting might be 0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:02.800 the future for the company, but in a way that 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:05.240 nobody wanted to see. I had a lot of good 0:22:05.240 --> 0:22:08.360 coworkers who were let go, and frankly I missed them. 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:11.400 They were great to work with. Anyway, We just kept 0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:14.879 plugging away. The podcasts were growing, but rarely were we 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:17.840 running any advertising on them, so they still weren't really 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:20.480 a revenue generator. And for a while we were doing 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:23.520 really well in search traffic. People would search topics on 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:25.960 Google and frequently our page would pop up in the 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:28.639 first few results. And that's great, but it's also a 0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:32.720 double edged sword because search algorithms can change, and what 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:35.439 works well for you one day might not end up 0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:38.639 working so well the next day. And that's what happened 0:22:38.680 --> 0:22:41.639 a couple of times. Google would tweak the search algorithm 0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:44.640 and sometimes we wouldn't show up in the top results, 0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:47.240 even if we had an article on that topic. And 0:22:47.280 --> 0:22:50.600 this illustrates an important point anyone running an Internet business 0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:55.320 should keep in mind. Search engine optimization or SEO is important. 0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:57.879 It's often how people will end up finding your stuff, 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:01.560 but relying heavily on search result means always having to 0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:04.760 play catch up to the search engines in question, which, 0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:07.760 let's be honest, it's really Google that we're talking about here. 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:10.800 So when Google changes, you have to change too, or 0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:14.080 else you'll see a drop in traffic. And this means 0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:18.200 your platform is dependent upon something outside of your own control. 0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:22.720 It's important to try and mitigate that by either using 0:23:22.840 --> 0:23:27.200 multiple platforms or establishing your own platform as a must 0:23:27.359 --> 0:23:30.560 visit place. And that was always the goal, but it's 0:23:30.600 --> 0:23:34.040 easier said than done. We kept writing articles, and we 0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:37.239 kept recording podcasts. I kept going to c e s 0:23:37.359 --> 0:23:41.440 every year. Our office in Buckhead got smaller. At one 0:23:41.480 --> 0:23:44.360 point we occupied the fifteen floor of an office building. 0:23:44.920 --> 0:23:47.800 Then we reduced down to about half of that floor, 0:23:47.800 --> 0:23:50.359 with the other half being leased out to another company. 0:23:50.560 --> 0:23:53.439 Then we moved down to the eleventh floor and we 0:23:53.480 --> 0:23:56.760 took up even less space. As editorial staff, we went 0:23:56.760 --> 0:24:00.000 from having cubicles to work stations with a little divider 0:24:00.119 --> 0:24:03.040 between them, and now we don't even have the dividers. 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:05.159 It was a series of changes that were difficult to 0:24:05.160 --> 0:24:08.680 get used to. We also would have to record podcasts 0:24:08.720 --> 0:24:12.560 in a corner office in those eleventh floor days, and 0:24:12.600 --> 0:24:15.080 that corner office was above Peach Tree Street, which is 0:24:15.119 --> 0:24:18.320 a major road in Atlanta, and so you can hear 0:24:18.320 --> 0:24:20.399 a lot of traffic noises. You could occasionally hear a 0:24:21.359 --> 0:24:24.760 whistle because we had Baton Bob, who is a local 0:24:25.320 --> 0:24:28.320 character here in Atlanta, who would march up and down 0:24:28.600 --> 0:24:32.280 Peach Tree blowing a whistle. The Ambassador of Smiles is 0:24:32.280 --> 0:24:35.200 fantastic to see on the street, but not necessarily someone 0:24:35.280 --> 0:24:40.160 you want to have whistling on your podcast every week. Also, 0:24:40.200 --> 0:24:43.240 we would occasionally get protesters outside the building, not for 0:24:43.480 --> 0:24:46.480 how stuff works. They were protesting a different business that 0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:49.000 had its headquarters in the same building we were in. 0:24:49.359 --> 0:24:51.520 But you can still hear them occasionally, so if you 0:24:51.600 --> 0:24:56.760 listen to episodes from around or fourteen, you might hear 0:24:56.880 --> 0:25:01.560 some of that noise. Also around that time, I got 0:25:01.600 --> 0:25:05.280 to start a series called Forward Thinking. Initially it was 0:25:05.320 --> 0:25:08.199 solely a video series that looked at ways science and 0:25:08.240 --> 0:25:11.040 technology could make a positive impact on the future, and 0:25:11.080 --> 0:25:15.200 eventually we launched a companion podcast, also called Forward Thinking, 0:25:15.480 --> 0:25:18.639 which I co hosted with Lauren Vogelbaum and Joe McCormick. 0:25:18.880 --> 0:25:21.520 In addition to Forward Thinking, we were also shooting videos 0:25:21.520 --> 0:25:24.639 for series like brain Stuff. Our video production really was 0:25:24.680 --> 0:25:27.040 beginning to ramp up. In fact, before we moved down 0:25:27.080 --> 0:25:30.880 to the eleventh floor, we had the Eternal Meeting series 0:25:30.880 --> 0:25:34.160 of videos that Connel Byrne. You know, he actually went 0:25:34.240 --> 0:25:37.040 into a a conference room, all of us kind of 0:25:37.080 --> 0:25:40.560 gathered around it, and for about forty five minutes he 0:25:40.600 --> 0:25:44.919 gave us a bogus meeting using lots of of of 0:25:45.119 --> 0:25:49.600 business speak that really meant nothing, but was amazing. And 0:25:49.720 --> 0:25:51.760 if you've ever seen the videos of Josh and Chuck 0:25:51.800 --> 0:25:54.920 where they're texting each other and you're getting the little 0:25:54.960 --> 0:25:57.440 text messages as they are talking about some sort of 0:25:57.560 --> 0:26:02.199 interesting topic, that came from that long, long video shoot, 0:26:02.359 --> 0:26:06.320 and it was a phenomenal phenomenal afternoon. In the spring 0:26:06.400 --> 0:26:09.520 of fourteen, our time with Discovery Communications would come to 0:26:09.600 --> 0:26:12.960 an end. We were sold off to another company called 0:26:12.960 --> 0:26:16.360 Blue Cora b l U c O r A. It's 0:26:16.359 --> 0:26:20.080 a company that's also known as Infospace. In fact, it 0:26:20.119 --> 0:26:22.960 was originally called Infospace, but changed its name to Blue 0:26:22.960 --> 0:26:27.160 Cora in twelve after it bought another company called tax Act, 0:26:27.520 --> 0:26:31.560 and Infospace would become a business unit within the company. 0:26:31.920 --> 0:26:35.360 Infospace is the search company that has its own pretty 0:26:35.440 --> 0:26:38.040 checkered past that I'm not going to go into here 0:26:38.080 --> 0:26:41.520 because it doesn't really play into our episode about how 0:26:41.560 --> 0:26:45.080 stuff works. But how stuff works was sold off for 0:26:45.080 --> 0:26:49.880 forty five million dollars. That represented an eighty two percent 0:26:50.320 --> 0:26:54.520 loss for Discovery Communications. Remember they spent two d fifty 0:26:54.600 --> 0:26:58.120 million years earlier, seven years earlier to buy it. Now 0:26:58.119 --> 0:26:59.840 all this is public knowledge, by the way, it's not 0:27:00.080 --> 0:27:04.040 time divulging secrets. It was a pretty rough time for 0:27:04.080 --> 0:27:06.440 some of us working at the company, or at the 0:27:06.520 --> 0:27:08.399 very least it was for me. I can't speak for 0:27:08.440 --> 0:27:10.800 everyone else, because we had gone from being part of 0:27:10.800 --> 0:27:14.280 a two fifty million dollar deal to seven years later 0:27:14.560 --> 0:27:17.560 being sold off for forty five million dollars. Which hurt. 0:27:18.440 --> 0:27:20.439 We weren't really sure where we would fit in with 0:27:20.520 --> 0:27:23.800 blue Cora. The company was known for not just infospace 0:27:24.080 --> 0:27:27.159 but also for tax act you know, financial services, and 0:27:27.240 --> 0:27:29.280 blue Core had purchased that back in two thousand twelve. 0:27:29.440 --> 0:27:31.359 We assumed that our role would be to keep creating 0:27:31.440 --> 0:27:35.280 articles and podcasts, and for the most part, we operated 0:27:35.280 --> 0:27:37.879 in Atlanta just as we had before, and we were 0:27:37.880 --> 0:27:40.320 still in Buckhead at that time. But then in two 0:27:40.320 --> 0:27:43.720 thousand fifteen, our office would move to its current location 0:27:44.000 --> 0:27:47.120 in Ponce City Market, in a part of Atlanta known 0:27:47.200 --> 0:27:49.880 as the Old Fourth Ward, much closer to where I live, 0:27:50.320 --> 0:27:52.399 which is nice for me. I can now walk to 0:27:52.440 --> 0:27:54.960 work at about the same amount of time it took 0:27:54.960 --> 0:27:57.440 me to take public transportation to our old office. I'm 0:27:57.440 --> 0:27:59.880 not really saving time, but I'm getting a lot more exercise. 0:28:00.480 --> 0:28:04.199 Pont City Market used to be an old distribution center 0:28:04.240 --> 0:28:08.360 and storefront for Sears, and it's huge, with two million, 0:28:08.440 --> 0:28:11.960 one thousand square feet of space. When we moved in, 0:28:12.040 --> 0:28:14.760 the building was mostly under construction, and today you can 0:28:14.800 --> 0:28:16.760 walk around the first two floors of the market and 0:28:16.840 --> 0:28:19.480 visit all these different shops and restaurants. It's really cool. 0:28:19.800 --> 0:28:21.760 But when we moved in. All of that was just 0:28:21.880 --> 0:28:24.800 bare concrete. In fact, it was a hard hat area, 0:28:25.160 --> 0:28:27.320 and we had a very narrow pathway we could take 0:28:27.359 --> 0:28:29.960 from the door to the bank of elevators we could 0:28:30.000 --> 0:28:31.919 use to get up to the floor that has our 0:28:32.000 --> 0:28:34.919 office on it. And I only mentioned this because if 0:28:34.960 --> 0:28:37.879 you listen to podcast episodes from around the summer of 0:28:37.920 --> 0:28:42.160 two thousand fifteen, you might occasionally hear the tell tale 0:28:42.240 --> 0:28:45.760 sounds of construction noises as the building was being prepared 0:28:45.800 --> 0:28:48.880 for news stores and residents during that time. We were 0:28:48.880 --> 0:28:51.160 producing a lot more video content during this time of 0:28:51.160 --> 0:28:53.680 our history as well. Not only were we still doing 0:28:53.800 --> 0:28:57.120 brain Stuff and Forward Thinking Now, we were also producing 0:28:57.200 --> 0:29:00.120 videos for How Stuff Works Now, which was a or 0:29:00.240 --> 0:29:04.240 news oriented series. We also began to experiment with live streams, 0:29:04.280 --> 0:29:07.920 including How Stuff Works Now live streams and fun stuff 0:29:07.960 --> 0:29:10.560 like Snack Stuff, in which Lauren Vogel, Bob and Ben 0:29:10.600 --> 0:29:14.760 Boland would eat unfamiliar snack foods live on camera. I 0:29:14.760 --> 0:29:17.560 showed up for a few of those. Those were typically 0:29:18.120 --> 0:29:22.480 streamed on Facebook, and we were starting to run ads 0:29:22.640 --> 0:29:25.600 on our podcasts at this time, and some shows were 0:29:25.600 --> 0:29:28.720 doing it pretty frequently. Stuff you should know obviously being 0:29:28.800 --> 0:29:32.200 one of the flagship ones. The forward Thinking video series 0:29:32.240 --> 0:29:35.120 was sponsored, but other shows were generating revenue through the 0:29:35.160 --> 0:29:38.200 tried and true YouTube model, and of course we were 0:29:38.200 --> 0:29:40.920 still writing articles for the website, plus writing more short 0:29:40.960 --> 0:29:45.360 form material for the blog, like pages on how Stuff Works. Now. Meanwhile, 0:29:45.760 --> 0:29:48.720 over at Blue Cora, things were changing. The company that 0:29:48.720 --> 0:29:51.480 had started off as Infospace was focusing more and more 0:29:51.480 --> 0:29:55.320 on financial services, like its tax Act business, and so 0:29:55.440 --> 0:29:58.200 the powers that be decided that the most logical thing 0:29:58.240 --> 0:30:01.280 to do would be to sell off the infospace business 0:30:01.320 --> 0:30:03.960 to someone else, and that How Stuff Works would go 0:30:04.000 --> 0:30:07.640 along with the deal. So in July two thousand sixteen, 0:30:08.000 --> 0:30:11.760 Blue Cora announced it had sold Infospace and How Stuff 0:30:11.800 --> 0:30:15.320 Works to a company called open Mail for forty five 0:30:15.360 --> 0:30:18.640 million dollars. And yet again this was a bit of 0:30:18.640 --> 0:30:20.920 a downer. I mean, the last time How Stuff Works 0:30:20.920 --> 0:30:23.760 have been sold it was for forty five million dollars 0:30:23.880 --> 0:30:26.880 all by itself, and now the company was being bought 0:30:26.920 --> 0:30:30.120 along with another company at that same price. And I 0:30:30.160 --> 0:30:32.360 want to stress that during all these changes, my co 0:30:32.520 --> 0:30:35.720 workers were all striving to write and record the best 0:30:35.720 --> 0:30:39.040 stuff they could. The quality was never in question either 0:30:39.240 --> 0:30:42.720 among the editorial staff, the video staff. Everybody was doing 0:30:42.760 --> 0:30:46.120 an amazing job, but it was really feeling pretty weird 0:30:46.480 --> 0:30:48.200 at this point, at least for me. I can't really 0:30:48.200 --> 0:30:51.680 speak for anyone else. On the bright side, open Mail 0:30:51.720 --> 0:30:54.120 was super nice to us. The company seemed determined to 0:30:54.120 --> 0:30:57.040 give us space to create and support what we needed. 0:30:57.560 --> 0:31:01.120 Um so we were able to to try lots of 0:31:01.160 --> 0:31:05.440 different stuff, and by this time many podcasters myself included, 0:31:05.840 --> 0:31:10.200 would transition over to only researching, writing, and recording podcasts, 0:31:10.200 --> 0:31:13.000 not articles. It was really rare that I would write 0:31:13.080 --> 0:31:15.520 articles for the site after that point. The once in 0:31:15.560 --> 0:31:17.960 a blue moon I would still do it. The process 0:31:17.960 --> 0:31:20.040 of researching and writing an article for how Stuff Works 0:31:20.160 --> 0:31:22.720 is sort of like doing a term paper. You have 0:31:22.760 --> 0:31:25.160 to be very thorough, you have to be informative, and 0:31:25.200 --> 0:31:28.160 you have to make sure you have reliable sources when 0:31:28.200 --> 0:31:29.840 you write it, and it takes a lot of time 0:31:29.880 --> 0:31:33.120 to put a good article together. The same truth with podcasts, 0:31:33.200 --> 0:31:35.560 and as we focused more on doing shows, we found 0:31:35.600 --> 0:31:38.520 ourselves with less time to devote to writing articles. So 0:31:38.560 --> 0:31:41.600 we started using more freelancers for that, and occasionally, like 0:31:41.640 --> 0:31:44.640 I said, we would write an article ourselves. Open Mail 0:31:44.840 --> 0:31:47.920 would change its name to System One, but that was 0:31:47.960 --> 0:31:50.600 a tiny change compared to what was going to happen next. 0:31:51.200 --> 0:31:54.640 In August two thousand seventeen, the company announced it was 0:31:54.680 --> 0:31:58.320 going to spin off the podcasting part of How Stuff 0:31:58.320 --> 0:32:02.400 Works as its own independent company, which became known as 0:32:02.560 --> 0:32:06.280 Stuff Media. The website part of the business, however, would 0:32:06.360 --> 0:32:09.400 remain with System One, and so our office was now 0:32:09.440 --> 0:32:12.880 made up of people working for two different companies, though 0:32:12.920 --> 0:32:16.120 there was still a ton of cross pollination. And it's 0:32:16.120 --> 0:32:18.960 a weird thing for me to think about at this point, 0:32:19.040 --> 0:32:22.680 because you know, I I started with How Stuff Works. 0:32:22.680 --> 0:32:25.480 I started with that company in two thousand seven. I 0:32:25.520 --> 0:32:27.920 had started as a staff writer. I worked my way 0:32:27.960 --> 0:32:31.240 up to senior writer and then became a podcaster. But 0:32:31.320 --> 0:32:34.000 at that point, and by that point, I mean two 0:32:34.000 --> 0:32:37.160 thousand seventeen, I was part of something else. Stuff Media 0:32:37.280 --> 0:32:40.200 was a slightly different company, though we continued to inhabit 0:32:40.240 --> 0:32:43.280 the same office space for the time being anyway, but 0:32:43.360 --> 0:32:46.240 it was clear things were changing. It was also clear 0:32:46.280 --> 0:32:49.320 that we'd start ramping up working on new shows before long, 0:32:49.440 --> 0:32:51.560 though at first we were really focused on just making 0:32:51.560 --> 0:32:54.080 sure we could foster the shows we had already been 0:32:54.120 --> 0:32:57.000 recording and give them the love and attention they needed. 0:32:57.480 --> 0:33:01.400 The spinoff of Stuff Media included a fifteen million dollar 0:33:01.520 --> 0:33:05.200 investment from a company called The Rain Group. Kamal Byrne, 0:33:05.240 --> 0:33:07.800 who had led How Stuff Works for years before transitioning 0:33:07.800 --> 0:33:11.400 to Discovery Communications, returned to serve as president of the 0:33:11.400 --> 0:33:14.480 new media company. He's the guy responsible for getting us 0:33:14.480 --> 0:33:17.400 into podcasts, By the way, the hosts and producers owe 0:33:17.480 --> 0:33:20.760 a lot to him forgetting the ball rolling, particularly since 0:33:20.800 --> 0:33:23.160 we went for years without having a way to actually 0:33:23.160 --> 0:33:25.800 generate revenue from the shows. I think a lot of 0:33:25.920 --> 0:33:29.360 leaders would have ditched the podcasts in favor of focusing 0:33:29.360 --> 0:33:31.920 on more short term goals. In fact, I know that's 0:33:31.920 --> 0:33:34.280 the case because I've seen it happen at other places. 0:33:34.520 --> 0:33:36.840 But we were able to keep things moving long enough 0:33:36.880 --> 0:33:39.880 for podcasting to become a viable industry in its own right. 0:33:40.440 --> 0:33:43.200 By this time we spun off from System One, we 0:33:43.200 --> 0:33:47.160 were ranked as the second largest podcast publisher behind NPR 0:33:47.280 --> 0:33:50.480 in terms of streams and downloads. But I'm not done 0:33:50.480 --> 0:33:52.880 with our story just yet. I'll tell you more in 0:33:52.960 --> 0:33:55.480 just a moment, but first let's take another quick break. 0:34:03.240 --> 0:34:07.120 The months went by and we continued producing podcasts. The 0:34:07.160 --> 0:34:10.840 website side continued doing their thing, and then in September 0:34:10.840 --> 0:34:14.239 two eighteen, it was announced that I Heart Media, the 0:34:14.239 --> 0:34:18.320 audio company formerly known as Clear Channel, was acquiring Stuff 0:34:18.400 --> 0:34:23.000 Media for the reported princely sum of fifty five million dollars. 0:34:23.600 --> 0:34:26.480 By this stage, the stuff Media network consisted of about 0:34:26.520 --> 0:34:30.000 twenty five shows, and it was an interesting move in 0:34:30.120 --> 0:34:32.640 part because at the time, I heart Media was still 0:34:32.680 --> 0:34:37.400 restructuring under Chapter eleven bankruptcy protection, having accumulated a pretty 0:34:37.440 --> 0:34:42.520 gargantuan debt of around twenty billion dollars. I Heart Media 0:34:42.560 --> 0:34:45.880 was in the process of spinning off clear Channel Outdoor Holdings, 0:34:46.239 --> 0:34:49.319 which was its outdoor advertising business think like you know, 0:34:49.400 --> 0:34:53.239 digital billboards and stuff like that. That process became complete 0:34:53.280 --> 0:34:57.640 in May two thousand nineteen. The acquisition received approval even 0:34:57.719 --> 0:35:00.880 as I heart Media continued to restructure its As for 0:35:00.920 --> 0:35:03.880 the company itself, it is the largest owner of radio 0:35:03.920 --> 0:35:06.680 stations in the United States. It owns more than eight 0:35:06.760 --> 0:35:12.200 hundred fifty stations. The company also produces and distributes many podcasts. 0:35:12.520 --> 0:35:14.839 The stuff Media podcast network was seen as a way 0:35:14.840 --> 0:35:19.399 to develop that further, and boy, howdy, have we been 0:35:19.520 --> 0:35:23.400 producing a lot of new shows since then. We've launched 0:35:23.520 --> 0:35:26.640 numerous podcasts leading up to and following the move to 0:35:26.680 --> 0:35:30.240 I Heeart Media. Now you still have the flagship Stuff 0:35:30.400 --> 0:35:34.200 shows like Stuff you Know, stuff you missed in history class, 0:35:34.320 --> 0:35:37.440 brain Stuff, stuff Mom never told you, stuff they don't 0:35:37.480 --> 0:35:40.279 want you to know, and of course tech Stuff. I've 0:35:40.320 --> 0:35:44.240 heard rumors that at least one former Stuff show maybe 0:35:44.280 --> 0:35:47.839 on its way back very soon, but I'll share more 0:35:47.880 --> 0:35:52.080 about that once it happens. Just wanted to seed a 0:35:52.120 --> 0:35:56.080 little excitement out there that something has coming down the 0:35:56.080 --> 0:35:59.480 pipeline now. In addition to the Stuff shows, we have 0:35:59.600 --> 0:36:02.839 tons of other shows that we're producing. Some of them 0:36:02.840 --> 0:36:06.560 are produced in house here in Atlanta, like Chuck Bryant's 0:36:06.640 --> 0:36:09.240 show Movie Crush, in which he sits down with various 0:36:09.320 --> 0:36:12.640 interesting people talks to them about their favorite films, sort 0:36:12.640 --> 0:36:15.600 of a launching point for a conversation. We have Savor, 0:36:16.000 --> 0:36:19.240 which was formerly known as food Stuff, that has hosts 0:36:19.320 --> 0:36:22.160 Lauren and Annie, and they're amazing. They just got back 0:36:22.440 --> 0:36:26.480 from uh uh incredible trip to Hawaii where I understand 0:36:26.920 --> 0:36:30.839 they talked to almost twenty different people in in interviews, 0:36:31.080 --> 0:36:35.160 so that's amazing. We have the Monster series that's a 0:36:35.160 --> 0:36:39.000 collaboration with Tinderfoot Studios, and it focuses on serial killers. 0:36:39.200 --> 0:36:41.920 The first season was about the Atlanta child murders of 0:36:41.960 --> 0:36:44.719 the early nineteen eighties. The second season was about the 0:36:44.800 --> 0:36:48.520 Zodiac Killer. We have committed a show about relationships that 0:36:48.560 --> 0:36:51.239 has some truly remarkable stories in it. Oh and I 0:36:51.320 --> 0:36:54.240 do a show called The Brink with my friend Ariel 0:36:54.320 --> 0:36:57.560 Caston where we talk about make or break moments in business. 0:36:58.080 --> 0:37:00.560 And there are several others, and it's just a small 0:37:00.640 --> 0:37:02.640 sample of the shows we're doing here in Atlanta. We 0:37:02.680 --> 0:37:05.400 also have tons being produced in New York, d C. 0:37:05.840 --> 0:37:10.720 Los Angeles and other places. There's the Daily Zeitgeist, Culture Kings, 0:37:11.040 --> 0:37:17.640 Cabinet of Curiosities, Ask a Manager, Broken Hearts, Dressed Ethnically, Ambiguous, 0:37:17.880 --> 0:37:21.480 Happy Face, and more. We've got a ton of shows 0:37:21.920 --> 0:37:24.799 and development at various stages, and the process is an 0:37:24.800 --> 0:37:27.120 interesting one. So I guess I'm gonna in this episode 0:37:27.120 --> 0:37:29.120 by kind of going through what we do behind the 0:37:29.160 --> 0:37:32.080 scenes when we want to develop a podcast. So it 0:37:32.080 --> 0:37:35.560 all starts with an idea. Frequently the ideas being pitched 0:37:35.560 --> 0:37:38.000 by a person who plans on being involved in the 0:37:38.040 --> 0:37:41.360 show in some capacity, either as a producer or a 0:37:41.440 --> 0:37:45.120 host or sometimes both. The idea is fleshed out and 0:37:45.160 --> 0:37:48.040 typically shared with several others in the company to make 0:37:48.080 --> 0:37:50.719 sure it sounds like a sustainable podcast that's worthy of 0:37:50.760 --> 0:37:53.520 the time and attention that will need to succeed because 0:37:53.520 --> 0:37:56.000 it does take a lot of time. You're talking about 0:37:56.520 --> 0:38:01.799 dedicating time to record, to edit, published, so we want 0:38:01.800 --> 0:38:05.840 to make sure that the ideas sound pretty good before 0:38:05.880 --> 0:38:10.000 we start committing resources to them. This idea would then 0:38:10.120 --> 0:38:13.440 enter into the pitch process, and we have our shows 0:38:13.560 --> 0:38:16.440 organized by what we call verticals. You could think of 0:38:16.480 --> 0:38:19.759 them sort of like categories, but the categories aren't hard 0:38:19.800 --> 0:38:23.839 and fast, as some shows overlap different categories, or one 0:38:23.960 --> 0:38:26.560 vertical might have shows that you might imagine would fit 0:38:26.600 --> 0:38:29.960 in a different category, but they act as general guidelines. 0:38:30.440 --> 0:38:32.360 At the head of each vertical, you have an executive 0:38:32.360 --> 0:38:35.440 producer who's in charge of overseeing the development and deployment 0:38:35.440 --> 0:38:38.279 of podcasts, as well as someone who remains keyed in 0:38:38.400 --> 0:38:41.080 on how podcasts are doing. You also have a supervising 0:38:41.120 --> 0:38:44.040 producer that's someone who's on the technical side of things 0:38:44.480 --> 0:38:47.439 and is helping making sure that all the stuff can 0:38:47.480 --> 0:38:50.839 actually be done. During the pitch process, a show might 0:38:50.840 --> 0:38:53.040 go through some changes, and some of them can be 0:38:53.120 --> 0:38:58.200 really dramatic. Something give me relatively minor. Some shows require 0:38:58.200 --> 0:39:02.239 a lot of production. They might have interviews that requires scheduling. 0:39:03.120 --> 0:39:06.160 It's a whole nightmare. If I were doing an interview 0:39:06.200 --> 0:39:08.840 based show, I would probably need a lot of help 0:39:09.280 --> 0:39:12.240 because just scheduling that kind of stuff is super tricky. 0:39:12.600 --> 0:39:14.640 My hat is off to all the people who do 0:39:14.760 --> 0:39:18.719 incredible interview based shows on our network. Um it is 0:39:18.760 --> 0:39:21.440 an amazing amount of work. But you also have stuff 0:39:21.440 --> 0:39:25.040 like transitions, you have music, you've got soundscaping and more. 0:39:25.760 --> 0:39:27.960 But then you have other types of shows like tech stuff. 0:39:27.960 --> 0:39:31.359 Those are pretty easy from a production standpoint. Those shows 0:39:31.360 --> 0:39:33.960 still have some of those elements. Occasionally I might do 0:39:34.000 --> 0:39:36.920 an interview. We do have music, but there's not a 0:39:37.040 --> 0:39:40.799 whole lot of bells and whistles attached to a tech 0:39:40.840 --> 0:39:43.400 stuff episode that not nearly to the extent of a 0:39:43.480 --> 0:39:47.319 highly produced show. Highly produced shows can be flashy. They 0:39:47.320 --> 0:39:49.279 can generate a lot of buzz, and if the show 0:39:49.360 --> 0:39:52.240 is good, it can easily justify the extra work needed 0:39:52.280 --> 0:39:55.000 to produce the podcast. But if it's a highly produced 0:39:55.040 --> 0:39:58.680 show and it's not doing well, it's probably not going 0:39:58.719 --> 0:40:01.960 to be around for very long, because it also is 0:40:02.000 --> 0:40:05.680 a very visible drain on resources. So the head of 0:40:05.719 --> 0:40:08.359 the verticals choose which show pitches are going to move 0:40:08.480 --> 0:40:11.160 forward in the process, and this can get a bit brutal. 0:40:11.520 --> 0:40:15.720 You might have a potential slate of a dozen brilliant ideas, 0:40:15.760 --> 0:40:18.680 but you might only have the capacity to launch let's say, 0:40:18.719 --> 0:40:22.920 two of them per quarter. On the one hand, it's 0:40:22.960 --> 0:40:25.239 great to have the luxury of choice between lots of 0:40:25.320 --> 0:40:28.439 fantastic ideas. On the other it stinks to have to say, 0:40:28.520 --> 0:40:32.319 you know, we can't do this show, at least not yet, 0:40:33.120 --> 0:40:34.799 but there are only so many hours in the day, 0:40:34.800 --> 0:40:37.120 and we have to be strategic in which shows get 0:40:37.160 --> 0:40:40.879 the green light. From that point, the show runners, which 0:40:41.000 --> 0:40:44.839 might include writers, producers, and hosts, and some people might 0:40:44.840 --> 0:40:47.560 be wearing multiple hats for a single show, they'll go 0:40:47.600 --> 0:40:50.560 off and they'll develop the idea further. Typically they'll record 0:40:50.680 --> 0:40:53.920 a pilot episode. The purpose of the pilot has given 0:40:53.920 --> 0:40:57.520 idea to the production team about what the finished show 0:40:57.560 --> 0:40:59.359 is going to be like, and it may or may 0:40:59.400 --> 0:41:01.680 not ever be published. That's meant to be sort of 0:41:01.680 --> 0:41:06.120 a prototype for the podcast itself, and frequently upon listening 0:41:06.160 --> 0:41:09.080 to a pilot, Executive, producers and others might have a 0:41:09.120 --> 0:41:13.120 few notes. These are typically suggestions for changes to the show, 0:41:13.560 --> 0:41:16.840 and the notes might include format issues or a question 0:41:16.840 --> 0:41:20.040 about the voice of the show. It might be questions 0:41:20.080 --> 0:41:22.719 about who is the intended audience and do you think 0:41:22.800 --> 0:41:26.680 this show is speaking to that intended audience. It might 0:41:26.760 --> 0:41:28.480 just be a note that says this is great, but 0:41:28.560 --> 0:41:31.719 it needs to be twenty minutes shorter. I get that 0:41:31.760 --> 0:41:37.480 note a lot, mostly from tari. Typically the show runners 0:41:37.480 --> 0:41:39.760 will then take those notes and then make another pass 0:41:39.800 --> 0:41:43.200 at it before they will start producing episodes. In earnest, 0:41:43.640 --> 0:41:46.520 when it becomes clear that we're going to launch the show, 0:41:46.680 --> 0:41:49.080 when everything's set, when we said, all right, we know 0:41:49.120 --> 0:41:50.960 what it is, we know what sounds like, We're ready 0:41:51.000 --> 0:41:53.760 to go, We're ready to start producing. These other factors 0:41:53.800 --> 0:41:55.920 also have to come into play. We have to secure 0:41:56.040 --> 0:41:58.520 u r L s for each show as well as 0:41:58.560 --> 0:42:02.200 social media accounts. We have to create logos for the shows. 0:42:02.520 --> 0:42:05.440 We have to assign a show to a marketing team. 0:42:05.520 --> 0:42:07.600 The sales team also has to be keyed into the 0:42:07.680 --> 0:42:09.719 launch of new shows. We've got to make sure the 0:42:09.719 --> 0:42:12.799 publishing pipeline from back end to the end user is 0:42:12.840 --> 0:42:15.120 ready to go. All this has to be done far 0:42:15.200 --> 0:42:16.800 enough in advance so that when it comes time to 0:42:16.840 --> 0:42:20.520 publish the trailer, everything's already in place, and typically that's 0:42:20.520 --> 0:42:22.880 how we start. We record a trailer that explains what 0:42:22.920 --> 0:42:25.720 the show is about, and will frequently PLoP that trailer 0:42:25.760 --> 0:42:27.960 into the feeds of other shows on the network, which 0:42:27.960 --> 0:42:30.480 I'm sure you've heard if you've been subscribed to any 0:42:30.520 --> 0:42:32.920 of our podcast for any real length of time. This 0:42:33.040 --> 0:42:36.439 sort of cross promotion can be incredibly useful, particularly since 0:42:36.480 --> 0:42:39.160 we're producing a lot of shows that complement one another. 0:42:39.760 --> 0:42:42.120 So if you listen to tech Stuff and you like it, 0:42:42.360 --> 0:42:45.919 you're probably gonna like Sleepwalkers, which is why we will 0:42:46.000 --> 0:42:48.680 run a trailer for Sleepwalkers on the Tech Stuff feed. 0:42:49.120 --> 0:42:51.640 It's not just to promote the show. It's to say, 0:42:52.200 --> 0:42:54.439 I know, you guys like this stuff, this is something 0:42:54.440 --> 0:42:56.560 else you might really dig. You should check it out. 0:42:57.040 --> 0:42:59.880 And upon publication, we typically have a couple of episodes 0:43:00.000 --> 0:43:04.560 ready to download straight away, so instead of just publishing 0:43:04.560 --> 0:43:07.759 episode one, will have maybe episodes one and two, and 0:43:07.840 --> 0:43:09.880 that way listeners can check out more than a single 0:43:09.880 --> 0:43:12.400 episode right from the start. We want listeners to have 0:43:12.440 --> 0:43:13.759 a good idea of what a show is going to 0:43:13.800 --> 0:43:15.719 be like, so they can make that determination about whether 0:43:15.800 --> 0:43:18.319 or not they want to subscribe to the podcast. In 0:43:18.360 --> 0:43:20.319 some cases, they may not. They may say, well, i've 0:43:20.360 --> 0:43:22.279 listened to too and I don't know, it's just not 0:43:22.320 --> 0:43:24.879 appealing to me. That's totally valid. But if you listen 0:43:24.920 --> 0:43:26.520 to and you say, man, I really like this, and 0:43:26.560 --> 0:43:29.000 that's a good indication that you know you should subscribe 0:43:29.040 --> 0:43:32.719 to that show. Sometimes shows get a strong following and 0:43:32.760 --> 0:43:36.080 they grow from there. Other times shows might take a 0:43:36.080 --> 0:43:39.439 while before they catch on. Some shows might never get 0:43:39.520 --> 0:43:42.839 much attention at all. Producers sometimes have to decide to 0:43:43.000 --> 0:43:46.160 end a show if it has a small audience and 0:43:46.200 --> 0:43:48.799 the time being spent producing the show could be, you know, 0:43:48.880 --> 0:43:52.040 better used elsewhere. But it's a tough call. There are 0:43:52.120 --> 0:43:54.920 lots of other factors that can also affect the end result. 0:43:55.080 --> 0:43:57.840 For example, a show might have a small but loyal 0:43:57.920 --> 0:44:02.080 following and advertisers might just love that show, and in 0:44:02.120 --> 0:44:04.359 those cases you might say, well, let's keep it going 0:44:04.400 --> 0:44:07.400 and keep trying to grow this audience. Because it's got 0:44:07.480 --> 0:44:09.680 a lot of support behind it. It doesn't make sense 0:44:09.719 --> 0:44:12.360 to just end it. But if a show isn't getting 0:44:12.440 --> 0:44:14.799 much traction, and if you can't sell ads for it, 0:44:14.800 --> 0:44:17.600 it's probably not going to be around very long. This 0:44:17.719 --> 0:44:20.239 also gets a bit more complicated when you talk about 0:44:20.280 --> 0:44:23.920 the differences between ongoing shows like Tech Stuff, ones that 0:44:24.000 --> 0:44:26.839 published every week, and then shows that are divided up 0:44:26.880 --> 0:44:30.680 into seasons. With seasons, you tend to get a pretty 0:44:30.719 --> 0:44:33.960 big bump and subscribers when a show generates some buzz 0:44:34.000 --> 0:44:36.719 when it first premieres, but you're not likely to keep 0:44:36.760 --> 0:44:39.920 adding at that same pace when you are between seasons, 0:44:40.480 --> 0:44:43.200 so that affects things a bit. On the flip side, 0:44:43.360 --> 0:44:45.880 for a show like Tech Stuff that's been running for years, 0:44:46.120 --> 0:44:48.400 you're not likely to see a big bump in numbers 0:44:48.719 --> 0:44:51.840 unless one of my episodes gets mentioned on some larger outlet, 0:44:52.080 --> 0:44:55.040 or if I land a killer interview with someone important 0:44:55.080 --> 0:44:57.400 that a lot of people want to hear more about. 0:44:58.160 --> 0:44:59.759 And there are a lot of other moving parts to 0:44:59.840 --> 0:45:03.479 a podcast network. The marketing team is constantly finding ways 0:45:03.520 --> 0:45:06.240 to promote shows and to get them to a wider audience. 0:45:06.600 --> 0:45:09.279 The social media team works hard to reach out to 0:45:09.320 --> 0:45:12.600 our communities and keep them engaged. The sales team is 0:45:12.640 --> 0:45:15.000 responsible for landing all those ad deals that pay the 0:45:15.040 --> 0:45:17.960 bills and allow us to actually make these shows. And 0:45:18.000 --> 0:45:20.799 while we're supporting all the shows that are already out there, 0:45:21.200 --> 0:45:24.759 we're always in the process of making more. Meanwhile, my 0:45:24.840 --> 0:45:28.080 former co workers are on the website side are no 0:45:28.200 --> 0:45:30.680 longer in our office, though they aren't far away. There 0:45:30.680 --> 0:45:32.919 are a couple of floors above us. Now. They still 0:45:32.960 --> 0:45:36.200 produce content for the website and they do an incredible 0:45:36.280 --> 0:45:38.479 job with it. If you haven't been to How Stuff 0:45:38.560 --> 0:45:41.680 Works in a while, or even if you've never been there, 0:45:41.840 --> 0:45:44.320 I encourage you to check it out. They are producing 0:45:44.440 --> 0:45:48.560 fantastic articles and videos, and they are genuinely great people 0:45:48.640 --> 0:45:51.920 and I miss seeing them every day. I'm very fortunate 0:45:51.960 --> 0:45:54.520 to have so many cool folks working on the Stuff 0:45:54.640 --> 0:45:57.879 Media I Heart side. We keep adding new people as 0:45:57.880 --> 0:46:01.160 we focus on making existing shows better and bringing new 0:46:01.239 --> 0:46:03.759 shows to you guys. It's an exciting time for us. 0:46:03.800 --> 0:46:05.839 We've received a lot of love from the I Heart 0:46:05.880 --> 0:46:10.040 Media side. Now, as I record this, it's nearly on 0:46:10.120 --> 0:46:14.640 the eleventh anniversary of Text Stuff's launch, it's actually just 0:46:14.800 --> 0:46:18.040 past it. So it's pretty amazing that this podcast has 0:46:18.080 --> 0:46:21.600 been through so many changes. You know, what it really 0:46:21.640 --> 0:46:24.279 tells me is that you guys are incredible. I have 0:46:24.400 --> 0:46:27.640 incredible listeners, because without you, this show would have gotten 0:46:27.680 --> 0:46:32.240 the acts a dozen times over. We've had format changes, 0:46:32.280 --> 0:46:36.080 we've had host changes, We've gone through ownership changes more 0:46:36.120 --> 0:46:39.799 times than I can count, and you guys have remained constant. 0:46:40.000 --> 0:46:42.800 And that is the reason why I'm still doing this show. 0:46:42.920 --> 0:46:45.960 So thank you all for listening. I greatly appreciate it. 0:46:46.400 --> 0:46:50.040 And that wraps up this episode about how Stuff Works, 0:46:50.600 --> 0:46:53.319 and uh, and you know how things are going now 0:46:53.360 --> 0:46:56.560 that we're a podcast network arm of I Heart Media. 0:46:57.160 --> 0:46:59.439 I am excited to see where things go from here. 0:46:59.600 --> 0:47:03.680 It has in a pretty amazing experience so far, one 0:47:03.760 --> 0:47:06.080 that I think it's been more positive than anything else. 0:47:06.440 --> 0:47:08.440 I've had a lot of opportunities to talk to some 0:47:08.560 --> 0:47:14.080 really smart people in the mass communications world, and it's 0:47:14.200 --> 0:47:16.560 nice to get some validation that some of the things 0:47:16.560 --> 0:47:18.560 I've been doing have been right all along, and it's 0:47:18.600 --> 0:47:20.759 great to get guidance on how I can do other 0:47:20.800 --> 0:47:25.320 stuff better. So I consider that a positive experience overall. 0:47:25.680 --> 0:47:28.719 If you guys have any suggestions for future episodes of 0:47:28.800 --> 0:47:31.560 tech Stuff, send me an email the addresses tech Stuff 0:47:31.680 --> 0:47:34.520 at how stuff works dot com. Or you can drop 0:47:34.560 --> 0:47:37.000 me a line on social media. Just go on over 0:47:37.040 --> 0:47:39.680 to tech stuff podcast dot com that has links to 0:47:39.920 --> 0:47:43.279 the social media presence, as well as an archive of 0:47:43.400 --> 0:47:47.040 all of our past episodes and more information about yours 0:47:47.040 --> 0:47:50.640 truly if for some reason you've gotta know more. Plus 0:47:50.680 --> 0:47:53.240 there's a link to our online store, where every purchase 0:47:53.280 --> 0:47:55.320 you make goes to help the show and we greatly 0:47:55.360 --> 0:47:58.879 appreciate it, and I'll talk to you again really soon. 0:48:00.480 --> 0:48:06.480 Y text Stuff is a production of I heart Radio's 0:48:06.520 --> 0:48:09.480 How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, 0:48:09.840 --> 0:48:13.000 visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 0:48:13.080 --> 0:48:14.600 you listen to your favorite shows.