1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production of I Heart Radios, 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. Hey there, and Welcome to tech Stuff. 3 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with 4 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 1: How Stuff Works and I Heart Radio and I love 5 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: all things tech, and a couple of years ago, I 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: did a pair of episodes about How Stuff Works and 7 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: how I and several of my coworkers transitioned from being 8 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 1: on the editorial staff of a website to becoming podcasters 9 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: and producers and a podcast network. And I got a 10 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: request from Chad Ingles on Twitter to follow up that 11 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: story because a couple of years have gone by and 12 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: some other stuff has happened, and besides, while I talked 13 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: mostly about the experience of writing and recording at the company, 14 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: I didn't really go into as much of the background 15 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,080 Speaker 1: of the company itself as I could have. So rather 16 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: than just do a follow up, I'm kind of doing 17 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: a big picture journey of How Stuff Works up to today. 18 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: But there's gonna be a lot of high level stuff 19 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: because there's no point in getting down and dirty with 20 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: every single era of How Stuff Works. So here's an 21 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: episode about what's been going on over the last several years. 22 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: Now to give the quick rundown. Marshall Brain and yes 23 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: that is his real name, founded the how stuff Works 24 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,559 Speaker 1: website back in the late nineteen nineties, though it wasn't 25 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 1: an honest to goodness business just yet. Marshall Brain had 26 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: taught computer science at North Carolina State University prior to 27 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: working on the website, and he wanted to create a 28 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: website that could give clear, concise explanations for different subjects. Essentially, 29 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: it would grow into this effort to demystify the universe, 30 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: one topic at a time, and it would include articles 31 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: and illustrations to really break down well how stuff works. 32 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: One of the earliest and most successful articles was about 33 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: our engines, and it would sort of establish the model 34 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: for all future how x works style articles on the site. 35 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: Brain raised funds in the effort to launch how stuff 36 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 1: Works as a business, and with around five million dollars 37 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: in investments, he launched how stuff Works the company in 38 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: January two thousand. He was able to secure investments to 39 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: get things in motion, and by two thousand one the 40 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: company had grown to nearly forty employees and the goal 41 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,519 Speaker 1: was still the same. It was to create engaging, easy 42 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: to understand articles explaining the universe one topic at a time. 43 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: But while the site was creating content, it was having 44 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: trouble attracting advertisers and making enough revenue through web advertisement 45 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: to support operations, and that made it necessary to seek 46 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 1: additional rounds of funding or go out of business. The 47 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: company would also have to downsize, laying off about half 48 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: the staff. And I guess I could explain really quickly 49 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: how web advertising works. I'm sure most of you have 50 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: at least a basic understanding of it. Typically, for a 51 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 1: website like this, you were selling some sort of real 52 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: estate on the web page. It might be the right rail, 53 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: it might be a banner ad, it might be a 54 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: pop up ad, and you get paid for the number 55 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: of page views that the web page with that advertisement gets, 56 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: so the more people who view that page, the more 57 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: money you make. Sometimes advertisers also will include something about 58 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 1: click through, so instead of the number of page views, 59 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 1: it's how many people actually clicked on the ad to 60 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: go to whatever the the ad was leading. So in 61 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: those cases you have to hope for a viewer action 62 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: or a visitor action rather than just viewing the page. 63 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: So that was essentially the basis for all web revenue 64 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 1: for a very long time. It's changed a little bit, 65 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: although web advertising still plays an incredibly important part in 66 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: UH and generating money for sites that are on the web, 67 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: like news sites and things like that. So Marshall Brain 68 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: had initially served as the CEO of this company, but 69 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: he stepped aside for Marco Fregenal, a co founder of 70 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: the company, to take over, and he would leave in 71 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: two thousand one. Marco that is, and Dean Jordan's, who 72 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 1: had served as the president for the Carolina Hurricanes the 73 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: sports team, became the new CEO of the company. Jordan 74 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,119 Speaker 1: arranged to have a private company called the Convex Group 75 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: purchase how Stuff Works before he departed and was replaced 76 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: by a guy named Joe kiss ak Now. The purchase 77 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: price for how Stuff Works was reported to be a 78 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: bit more than a million dollars according to the Business Journal. 79 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: Investors in the company were assigned promissory notes that they 80 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: had the potential to pay off big time if the 81 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: Convex Group were to sell How Stuff Works to a 82 00:04:56,040 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: different company. More on that in just a little bit. 83 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: So How Stuff Works had been based in Carrie, North Carolina, 84 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,919 Speaker 1: which is just outside Raleigh. The Convex Group was a 85 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: group of investors based in Atlanta, Georgia, and at the 86 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: helm of the Convex Group was a guy named Jeff Arnold, 87 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: the founder of web md. So. Arnold had founded web 88 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: m d and and it was phenomenally successful. Propelled Arnold 89 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: into an entrepreneurial role, and he started a company called 90 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 1: lid Rock, which used to put c d s in 91 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 1: the lids of drinks sold at places like movie theaters. Yes, 92 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: we used to have lid Rock c ds in our 93 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: office once upon a time. He became chairman and CEO 94 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: of How Stuff Works, and the headquarters moved to Atlanta, 95 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: though a lot of people still stayed in North Carolina. 96 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: The site did grow a bit in those early years. 97 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: It really peaked in two thousand five, a couple of 98 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 1: years before I would come on board, at least in 99 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: terms of traffic going to the website. But then traffic 100 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 1: began slowing down and the company had deal with the 101 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: implications of that, including reduced revenue. And if your costs 102 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: remain the same but your revenue is going down, you 103 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: start to realize you're gonna need to make some changes 104 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: pretty soon or you'll be on a slippery slope to bankruptcy. Now, 105 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: when I joined house Stop Works in the winter of 106 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: two thousand seven February two thousand seven, I still remember it. 107 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: At that point, it was still under the umbrella of 108 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: the Convex Group. Jeff Arnold maintained an office in our headquarters. 109 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: It was a really big office, pretty swanky. Actually. We 110 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: would eventually turn that office into a break area that 111 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: nobody on the editorial side ever really used. It was 112 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 1: really nice, had ping pong table and other stuff in it, 113 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: and um or actually it was a foosball table and 114 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: some other stuff in it, and and none of us 115 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: in editorial ever felt like we had the time to 116 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 1: go over there. But the sales team liked it, and 117 00:06:55,040 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: the marketing team liked it, but um that's beside the point. Anyway. 118 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,559 Speaker 1: A few of my current coworkers, people who still work 119 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: day to day with me, we're actually around back then. 120 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: They either had been working there for a little while 121 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: or they joined shortly after I did, and they also 122 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: got to experience what life was like under the Convex era. 123 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: And when I started, my job was pretty straightforward. I 124 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: would receive an article assignment and I had a week 125 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: to write the article, and then a week to revise 126 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: the article based on any editorial responses, and I'd have 127 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: another article to write as I was revising the previous ones. 128 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: So I'd be working on one article and finishing up 129 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: another one each week. So I'd research art for the 130 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: articles as well. I would either request illustrations from some 131 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,239 Speaker 1: in house talent that we had at the company, or 132 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: I would select images on the web and then try 133 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: to reach out to get permission from the rights holders 134 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: to get permission to use the photos on the site. 135 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: This was in the old Wild West Web days, when 136 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: even taking that step was seen as being pretty conservative. 137 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: There are a lot of people who were just grabbing 138 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: images and posting them online without any effort to track 139 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,239 Speaker 1: down whoever owned the rights to that image. Now these days, 140 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: how Stuff Works purchases licenses from various stock photo libraries 141 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 1: to make sure that any images used on the site 142 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: are done so with no possible ownership problems, because one 143 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: thing that can happen, and it has happened to lots 144 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: of websites out there, is that they will post an 145 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: image that they don't have the rights to, and then 146 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: someone with the rights will end up making a big 147 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: fuss about it legitimately, so I mean it's the rights 148 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: to their intellectual property. And then typically that sort of 149 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: stuff can end up going to court. Usually it's settled 150 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: out of court. But that's a problem no one wants 151 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: to have because at the very least, it will probably 152 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,839 Speaker 1: mean taking the art down for an article and needing 153 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 1: to replace it with something else. Uh. At the at 154 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: the most, it's going to mean a big payout that 155 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to make to somebody when you could 156 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: have avoided that just by going through something like the 157 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: stock photo route. Now every week I would join my 158 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 1: fellow writers. There are really only two other writers back 159 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: in those days that Tracy Wilson of Stuff You Missed 160 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: in History Class was one of them. She was the 161 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: senior writer on staff. Then there was me, and then 162 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: we had another writer who wrote what we called question 163 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: of the Day articles. Those were much shorter articles that 164 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: tried to answer a simple question each day. Uh. And 165 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: then the editor editors also would meet there, along with 166 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,839 Speaker 1: the interim head of editorial at the time, and we 167 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: would talk about article ideas. We would have a pitch session, 168 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: we'd have a conversation about which ones we thought were interesting, 169 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 1: and then eventually the assignments would be based off of 170 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,319 Speaker 1: those discussions and then would go out to the various writers. Generally, 171 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: before writing an article, the writer would create a list 172 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: of questions that he or she expected the article to 173 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: be able to answer. So you'd say, all right, you've 174 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,079 Speaker 1: got how washing machine means work. Here are the questions 175 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: I think this article needs to answer. So it might 176 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: be who invented the washing machine? How old is the 177 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 1: washing machine? How does washing machine clean clothes? Like these 178 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: would all be the basic questions that you think an 179 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 1: article should answer, and you would share that with the 180 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: other members of the editorial team, and they could add 181 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: more questions so that you made sure that you had 182 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: a good, fleshed out article that addressed all the questions 183 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 1: it should. Otherwise you might overlook something and it could 184 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: be something simple, it could be something fundamental. In a 185 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: lot of cases, the questions that would get added, either 186 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 1: mostly by Tracy or myself, would be about physics and science, 187 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: so not just how something works, but why does it 188 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: work that way? What makes it possible? Though, we were 189 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 1: often the sticks in the mud that would add those questions, saying, well, 190 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:57,959 Speaker 1: it's not just enough for you to say it does 191 00:10:58,040 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: this thing, We really do need to know how it 192 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: is it anyway, it gave people the chance to create 193 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: a framework for their articles as well, kind of thinking 194 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: out what uh structure the article should take, and we 195 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: called this the initial approach. Then the writer would start 196 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: pulling research both online and offline and get an understanding 197 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: needed to write the article in question. The writing staff 198 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: took up a relatively small amount of the space we 199 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: had on the fifteenth floor of an office building. The 200 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: building we were in at the time. This office was 201 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: in a part of Atlanta called Buckhead that has lots 202 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: of shopping and restaurants. Buckett mostly caters to a slightly 203 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: higher end crowd, kind of a the upper middle class 204 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: maybe lower upper class kind of crowd, and it was 205 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: also in close proximity to Mr Arnold's home. I'm sure 206 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: that was coincidental. The rest of our floor was taken 207 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: up with web developers who were building out and supporting 208 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 1: the features that made our site work very important. Obviously 209 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: there's no website without them, and they were great, they 210 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: were fantastic. And then we also had our sales and 211 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: marketing teams in charge of making deals for web advertising 212 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: and then you know a few others as well. Now, 213 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: starting shortly after I joined, the company began to make 214 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: a more concerted effort to build out the editorial staff. 215 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: Like I said, when I started, Tracy and I were 216 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: really the only full time staff writers. A couple of 217 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: years before I came to How Stuff Works, the staff 218 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: had been quite a bit larger. In fact, they were 219 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: even working on really fun ideas that were grouped under 220 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: the the title stuff Oh. These were articles that were 221 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: more kind of hypothetical in nature and and a little 222 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: more lighthearted, things like who would win in a fight 223 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 1: Superman or a Jedi? That kind of stuff like things 224 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: that you wouldn't typically find on a house Stuff Works 225 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 1: web page. But that staff was long gone by the 226 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: time I joined, and so with STUFFO for that matter. 227 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 1: So there have been departures and layoffs in the editorial 228 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: department before my arrival, and it brought it down to 229 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: that small size of just Tracy and I being the 230 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: full time staff writers. We also had a few freelance 231 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 1: writers who would contribute articles occasionally, and we had the 232 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: Stuff of the Day or the Question of the Day 233 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: uh writer as well. Now then we had a guy 234 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 1: named Carl Burne, who joined our team to head up 235 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: the editorial department. We began adding more people to the 236 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: editorial staff, people like Josh Clark and Chuck Bryant. They 237 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 1: joined on, and behind the scenes, a big deal was 238 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: slowly coalescing, though most of us working on articles only 239 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: got hints that something was going on at the time. 240 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: I'm sure there were other people in the editorial staff 241 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: who knew much more than I did at the time. 242 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:48,319 Speaker 1: I tend to be pretty far behind on those sort 243 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: of things. I'm not the most observant of people, I 244 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: think when it comes to corporate culture. But yes, there 245 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: was a big, big thing going on, and that big 246 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 1: thing was a deal between the Convex Group and Discovery Communications. 247 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: That's the company that owns the Discovery Channel, the Science Channel, 248 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: TLC and more. Discovery, as it turned out, was struggling 249 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: to create a digital footprint. The company was doing really 250 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: well in cable, but companies are measured in growth year 251 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,439 Speaker 1: over year typically, and Discovery was starting to run out 252 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: of places to grow into, particularly in North America. It 253 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: had pretty much reached saturation in the United States, and 254 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: it was hard to grow in a place where most 255 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: of the cable subscribing population already has access to your channels. 256 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: The future appeared to be online anyway, so there was 257 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: a strong incentive to invest in growing the company's Internet presence. 258 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: Discovery hadn't had a whole lot of success in that regard, 259 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: despite being a big media company, and that led to 260 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: the deal in which the Convex Group would sell How 261 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: Stuff Works to Discovery Communications for the princely sum of 262 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: two hundred fifty million dollars. Those promissory notes must have 263 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 1: looked pretty darn good at that point. Remember this was 264 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: initially a five million dollar investment, and then the value 265 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: had crept down to a million dollars and it was 266 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: sold for two hundred fifty million dollars, an incredible deal. 267 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: Discovery told The Wall Street Journal that the plan was 268 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: to leverage the House Stuff Works website to quote or 269 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: as quote, the cornerstone of an effort to bring its 270 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: vast library of video content to the web end quote. So, 271 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: in other words, the way Discovery was looking at How 272 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: Stuff Works was largely as a platform for all of 273 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: the video that Discovery was sitting on in its countless 274 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: hours of production of various television series. That's not exactly 275 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: how it turned out, and honestly, I'm a little thankful 276 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: for that, because if how stuff Works had only become 277 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: a repository for uh discovery videos, then I might not 278 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: have a job. The acquisition did bring with it some 279 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: painful changes, if I'm going to be brutally honest. Way 280 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: back in the day, when we were under the Convex Group, 281 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: how stuff Works employees had a an unbelievably super sweet 282 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: benefits package. I mean, it was incredible. It included a 283 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: health plan, the basic health plan, in which the company 284 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: paid the entire cost. There was no employee contribution apart 285 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: from the regular copay stuff, so your monthly contribution was 286 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: completely covered by your employer. It was just your co 287 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: pay that you had to pay. That was incredible, it 288 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: was it made medical care very affordable. And way back 289 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: in those days, we would also get our paychecks every 290 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: two weeks. It was just a bi weekly schedule. Then 291 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: we had the acquisition and things changed. Discovery couldn't operate 292 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: like an internet startup that was run by entrepreneurs, you know. 293 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: And it to be totally fair, I mean, this was 294 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: a major company. They could not operate at that scale 295 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: with those same sort of benefits, it just wasn't possible. 296 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: So the health plan would mean employees would have to 297 00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: pay for coverage. There was now going to be an 298 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: employee contribution each month, and that was an initial blow 299 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 1: to a lot of folks on staff who hadn't really 300 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,679 Speaker 1: budgeted for that. And in addition, Discoveries pay schedule, at 301 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: least at the time, I don't know what it is 302 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 1: now that at the time it was fixed to be 303 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: the fifteen and the thirty of every month, or the 304 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: closest work day to whatever those dates are. You know, 305 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: obviously February it's going to be et cetera. All to 306 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 1: align with the Discovery schedule. It meant that we were 307 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: actually gonna have to go one extra week without a paycheck, 308 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 1: just because the way the calendar fell. So that was 309 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: kind of scary for some people who weren't you know, 310 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: they didn't have a whole lot of money put aside, 311 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,880 Speaker 1: and so to go an extra week without a paycheck, 312 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 1: plus knowing that some of that money was going into 313 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: an employee contribution to a health plan was a little 314 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,199 Speaker 1: bit of a tough pill to swallow. Now, as it 315 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 1: turns out, Discovery made some concessions to ease the transition 316 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: a bit. Uh. The company did try to make it 317 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: a little bit easier for people, but I distinctly remember 318 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: early on before that happened, the anxiety in our office 319 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:08,719 Speaker 1: was pretty palpable, especially amongst certain people. Some of us 320 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 1: were fortunate, like I happened. My wife happens to have 321 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 1: very good benefits, so I was able to rely on 322 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: on that instead on her benefits, and so that I 323 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: had a cushion there. But not everyone was in as 324 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: privileged a position as I was. Now. Our time with 325 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: Discovery head its ups and downs. On the good side, 326 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 1: we were able to launch podcasts for the very first 327 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: time back in two thousand and eight. That was under 328 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 1: Discovery Stuff you Should Know was the first of our 329 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 1: podcasts out of the gate, and then we become and 330 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 1: remain our most popular show in the network. We also 331 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: got the chance to work more in video. Occasionally. I 332 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: remember shooting videos in which I juggled flaming torches. There 333 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: was a series I shot with Chris Palette, my original 334 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: co host, where we talked about a Windows mobile app 335 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 1: for How Stuff Works. That were a lot of fun. Uh. 336 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 1: The app is, as far as I know no longer 337 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: Things since Windows Mobile isn't really a thing, but those 338 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: videos still live on if you want to do a 339 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 1: search for them, and they are goofy just like me. 340 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 1: We also butted up against some issues back then under Discovery, 341 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: such as creating a lot of custom content for advertisers. 342 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: Custom content is a fun way of saying, the advertiser 343 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 1: would really like you to write about this topic, and 344 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: they'll give you money for you to do it. And 345 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: it's not always a bad thing. I don't I don't 346 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: mean to say it's automatically bad. It's not. If it's 347 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: done right, it can end up being great because it 348 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: benefits them, it benefits you. You can get more access 349 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 1: to experts and insight than you would on a normal assignment, 350 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: and so if it's a good assignment, it could be 351 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 1: a great fit. But sometimes in the process of making 352 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 1: a big sale, you end up promising some deliverables that 353 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 1: might in the long run hurt your operations. And we 354 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 1: had a couple of instances of that back in the 355 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: Discovery days. And I'm not blaming it one here. I mean, 356 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: those sales were big, and they were important and they 357 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: helped us stay in business. But at the same time, uh, 358 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: they weren't great from a content perspective. We had to 359 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 1: write a lot of articles that the editorial department felt 360 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: were a little repetitive and uh, focus too much on 361 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 1: some narrow topics, and that was not great. And visitors 362 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: were noticing too. They were we were getting emails about it. 363 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 1: So it was a bit of a growing pains kind 364 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,120 Speaker 1: of thing. Now, it did mean that we were able 365 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: to learn from the experience and establish a better policy 366 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: regarding sales and custom content moving forward, So it was 367 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: valuable in the long run, but it was a little rough. 368 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: Alt a lot more to say, But first, since we're 369 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: speaking of paying the bills, let's take a quick break, 370 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,120 Speaker 1: all right, I'm gonna be real with you guys. One 371 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: other thing that happened during the Discovery years that was 372 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: a bit tough on some of us was that there 373 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 1: were more than a few rounds of layoffs in our 374 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: time with Discovery. The Hell Stuff Works team was rolled 375 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: into the overall Discovery Digital team, and Discovery was struggling 376 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: a bit creating on working a holistic approach to the 377 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,679 Speaker 1: digital platforms. It had a lot of them, and it 378 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: wasn't really sure about what to do with all of them. 379 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 1: We never really felt like we were part of a 380 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: cohesive online strategy, and at one point I realized that 381 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,439 Speaker 1: the editorial department had been reduced to the point that 382 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: almost every single person who was still on staff also 383 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,679 Speaker 1: happened to have a podcast. The writers and editors who 384 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: weren't on podcasts, most of them weren't on staff anymore 385 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: unless they were at the most senior level of editor. 386 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 1: And I don't think there was anything personal about these decisions, 387 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: but it was a tough thing to see, and it 388 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: also kind of painted a picture that podcasting might be 389 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: the future for the company, but in a way that 390 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: nobody wanted to see. I had a lot of good 391 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,360 Speaker 1: coworkers who were let go, and frankly I missed them. 392 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,400 Speaker 1: They were great to work with. Anyway, We just kept 393 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: plugging away. The podcasts were growing, but rarely were we 394 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: running any advertising on them, so they still weren't really 395 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: a revenue generator. And for a while we were doing 396 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: really well in search traffic. People would search topics on 397 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: Google and frequently our page would pop up in the 398 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 1: first few results. And that's great, but it's also a 399 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: double edged sword because search algorithms can change, and what 400 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 1: works well for you one day might not end up 401 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 1: working so well the next day. And that's what happened 402 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 1: a couple of times. Google would tweak the search algorithm 403 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,640 Speaker 1: and sometimes we wouldn't show up in the top results, 404 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: even if we had an article on that topic. And 405 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: this illustrates an important point anyone running an Internet business 406 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: should keep in mind. Search engine optimization or SEO is important. 407 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: It's often how people will end up finding your stuff, 408 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: but relying heavily on search result means always having to 409 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: play catch up to the search engines in question, which, 410 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: let's be honest, it's really Google that we're talking about here. 411 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: So when Google changes, you have to change too, or 412 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: else you'll see a drop in traffic. And this means 413 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: your platform is dependent upon something outside of your own control. 414 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: It's important to try and mitigate that by either using 415 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: multiple platforms or establishing your own platform as a must 416 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: visit place. And that was always the goal, but it's 417 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 1: easier said than done. We kept writing articles, and we 418 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,239 Speaker 1: kept recording podcasts. I kept going to c e s 419 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 1: every year. Our office in Buckhead got smaller. At one 420 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,360 Speaker 1: point we occupied the fifteen floor of an office building. 421 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: Then we reduced down to about half of that floor, 422 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: with the other half being leased out to another company. 423 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 1: Then we moved down to the eleventh floor and we 424 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: took up even less space. As editorial staff, we went 425 00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: from having cubicles to work stations with a little divider 426 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: between them, and now we don't even have the dividers. 427 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 1: It was a series of changes that were difficult to 428 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 1: get used to. We also would have to record podcasts 429 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: in a corner office in those eleventh floor days, and 430 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: that corner office was above Peach Tree Street, which is 431 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: a major road in Atlanta, and so you can hear 432 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: a lot of traffic noises. You could occasionally hear a 433 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: whistle because we had Baton Bob, who is a local 434 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: character here in Atlanta, who would march up and down 435 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: Peach Tree blowing a whistle. The Ambassador of Smiles is 436 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: fantastic to see on the street, but not necessarily someone 437 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 1: you want to have whistling on your podcast every week. Also, 438 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: we would occasionally get protesters outside the building, not for 439 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: how stuff works. They were protesting a different business that 440 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: had its headquarters in the same building we were in. 441 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: But you can still hear them occasionally, so if you 442 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: listen to episodes from around or fourteen, you might hear 443 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: some of that noise. Also around that time, I got 444 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: to start a series called Forward Thinking. Initially it was 445 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,199 Speaker 1: solely a video series that looked at ways science and 446 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: technology could make a positive impact on the future, and 447 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: eventually we launched a companion podcast, also called Forward Thinking, 448 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 1: which I co hosted with Lauren Vogelbaum and Joe McCormick. 449 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: In addition to Forward Thinking, we were also shooting videos 450 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 1: for series like brain Stuff. Our video production really was 451 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: beginning to ramp up. In fact, before we moved down 452 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,880 Speaker 1: to the eleventh floor, we had the Eternal Meeting series 453 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 1: of videos that Connel Byrne. You know, he actually went 454 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: into a a conference room, all of us kind of 455 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: gathered around it, and for about forty five minutes he 456 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: gave us a bogus meeting using lots of of of 457 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: business speak that really meant nothing, but was amazing. And 458 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: if you've ever seen the videos of Josh and Chuck 459 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 1: where they're texting each other and you're getting the little 460 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: text messages as they are talking about some sort of 461 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:02,199 Speaker 1: interesting topic, that came from that long, long video shoot, 462 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: and it was a phenomenal phenomenal afternoon. In the spring 463 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: of fourteen, our time with Discovery Communications would come to 464 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: an end. We were sold off to another company called 465 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,360 Speaker 1: Blue Cora b l U c O r A. It's 466 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: a company that's also known as Infospace. In fact, it 467 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: was originally called Infospace, but changed its name to Blue 468 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: Cora in twelve after it bought another company called tax Act, 469 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: and Infospace would become a business unit within the company. 470 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,360 Speaker 1: Infospace is the search company that has its own pretty 471 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: checkered past that I'm not going to go into here 472 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: because it doesn't really play into our episode about how 473 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: stuff works. But how stuff works was sold off for 474 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 1: forty five million dollars. That represented an eighty two percent 475 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: loss for Discovery Communications. Remember they spent two d fifty 476 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,120 Speaker 1: million years earlier, seven years earlier to buy it. Now 477 00:26:58,119 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: all this is public knowledge, by the way, it's not 478 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: time divulging secrets. It was a pretty rough time for 479 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 1: some of us working at the company, or at the 480 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 1: very least it was for me. I can't speak for 481 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: everyone else, because we had gone from being part of 482 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: a two fifty million dollar deal to seven years later 483 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: being sold off for forty five million dollars. Which hurt. 484 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 1: We weren't really sure where we would fit in with 485 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: blue Cora. The company was known for not just infospace 486 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 1: but also for tax act you know, financial services, and 487 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: blue Core had purchased that back in two thousand twelve. 488 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: We assumed that our role would be to keep creating 489 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: articles and podcasts, and for the most part, we operated 490 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,879 Speaker 1: in Atlanta just as we had before, and we were 491 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: still in Buckhead at that time. But then in two 492 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: thousand fifteen, our office would move to its current location 493 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 1: in Ponce City Market, in a part of Atlanta known 494 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,880 Speaker 1: as the Old Fourth Ward, much closer to where I live, 495 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,399 Speaker 1: which is nice for me. I can now walk to 496 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 1: work at about the same amount of time it took 497 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 1: me to take public transportation to our old office. I'm 498 00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,880 Speaker 1: not really saving time, but I'm getting a lot more exercise. 499 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,199 Speaker 1: Pont City Market used to be an old distribution center 500 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,360 Speaker 1: and storefront for Sears, and it's huge, with two million, 501 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: one thousand square feet of space. When we moved in, 502 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: the building was mostly under construction, and today you can 503 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: walk around the first two floors of the market and 504 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: visit all these different shops and restaurants. It's really cool. 505 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: But when we moved in. All of that was just 506 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: bare concrete. In fact, it was a hard hat area, 507 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: and we had a very narrow pathway we could take 508 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 1: from the door to the bank of elevators we could 509 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,919 Speaker 1: use to get up to the floor that has our 510 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,919 Speaker 1: office on it. And I only mentioned this because if 511 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: you listen to podcast episodes from around the summer of 512 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: two thousand fifteen, you might occasionally hear the tell tale 513 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: sounds of construction noises as the building was being prepared 514 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: for news stores and residents during that time. We were 515 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: producing a lot more video content during this time of 516 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: our history as well. Not only were we still doing 517 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: brain Stuff and Forward Thinking Now, we were also producing 518 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 1: videos for How Stuff Works Now, which was a or 519 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: news oriented series. We also began to experiment with live streams, 520 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: including How Stuff Works Now live streams and fun stuff 521 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: like Snack Stuff, in which Lauren Vogel, Bob and Ben 522 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: Boland would eat unfamiliar snack foods live on camera. I 523 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: showed up for a few of those. Those were typically 524 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: streamed on Facebook, and we were starting to run ads 525 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: on our podcasts at this time, and some shows were 526 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: doing it pretty frequently. Stuff you should know obviously being 527 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: one of the flagship ones. The forward Thinking video series 528 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: was sponsored, but other shows were generating revenue through the 529 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: tried and true YouTube model, and of course we were 530 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: still writing articles for the website, plus writing more short 531 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: form material for the blog, like pages on how Stuff Works. Now. Meanwhile, 532 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 1: over at Blue Cora, things were changing. The company that 533 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: had started off as Infospace was focusing more and more 534 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: on financial services, like its tax Act business, and so 535 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: the powers that be decided that the most logical thing 536 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,280 Speaker 1: to do would be to sell off the infospace business 537 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: to someone else, and that How Stuff Works would go 538 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: along with the deal. So in July two thousand sixteen, 539 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: Blue Cora announced it had sold Infospace and How Stuff 540 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: Works to a company called open Mail for forty five 541 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: million dollars. And yet again this was a bit of 542 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: a downer. I mean, the last time How Stuff Works 543 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: have been sold it was for forty five million dollars 544 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: all by itself, and now the company was being bought 545 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: along with another company at that same price. And I 546 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: want to stress that during all these changes, my co 547 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: workers were all striving to write and record the best 548 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: stuff they could. The quality was never in question either 549 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: among the editorial staff, the video staff. Everybody was doing 550 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: an amazing job, but it was really feeling pretty weird 551 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: at this point, at least for me. I can't really 552 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: speak for anyone else. On the bright side, open Mail 553 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: was super nice to us. The company seemed determined to 554 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: give us space to create and support what we needed. 555 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: Um so we were able to to try lots of 556 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:05,440 Speaker 1: different stuff, and by this time many podcasters myself included, 557 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: would transition over to only researching, writing, and recording podcasts, 558 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: not articles. It was really rare that I would write 559 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: articles for the site after that point. The once in 560 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: a blue moon I would still do it. The process 561 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: of researching and writing an article for how Stuff Works 562 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 1: is sort of like doing a term paper. You have 563 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 1: to be very thorough, you have to be informative, and 564 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: you have to make sure you have reliable sources when 565 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 1: you write it, and it takes a lot of time 566 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: to put a good article together. The same truth with podcasts, 567 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 1: and as we focused more on doing shows, we found 568 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: ourselves with less time to devote to writing articles. So 569 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: we started using more freelancers for that, and occasionally, like 570 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: I said, we would write an article ourselves. Open Mail 571 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: would change its name to System One, but that was 572 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: a tiny change compared to what was going to happen next. 573 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: In August two thousand seventeen, the company announced it was 574 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: going to spin off the podcasting part of How Stuff 575 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: Works as its own independent company, which became known as 576 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: Stuff Media. The website part of the business, however, would 577 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 1: remain with System One, and so our office was now 578 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: made up of people working for two different companies, though 579 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: there was still a ton of cross pollination. And it's 580 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 1: a weird thing for me to think about at this point, 581 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: because you know, I I started with How Stuff Works. 582 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 1: I started with that company in two thousand seven. I 583 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: had started as a staff writer. I worked my way 584 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: up to senior writer and then became a podcaster. But 585 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: at that point, and by that point, I mean two 586 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: thousand seventeen, I was part of something else. Stuff Media 587 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: was a slightly different company, though we continued to inhabit 588 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: the same office space for the time being anyway, but 589 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: it was clear things were changing. It was also clear 590 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: that we'd start ramping up working on new shows before long, 591 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: though at first we were really focused on just making 592 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: sure we could foster the shows we had already been 593 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: recording and give them the love and attention they needed. 594 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: The spinoff of Stuff Media included a fifteen million dollar 595 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 1: investment from a company called The Rain Group. Kamal Byrne, 596 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 1: who had led How Stuff Works for years before transitioning 597 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: to Discovery Communications, returned to serve as president of the 598 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 1: new media company. He's the guy responsible for getting us 599 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: into podcasts, By the way, the hosts and producers owe 600 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: a lot to him forgetting the ball rolling, particularly since 601 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: we went for years without having a way to actually 602 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 1: generate revenue from the shows. I think a lot of 603 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: leaders would have ditched the podcasts in favor of focusing 604 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: on more short term goals. In fact, I know that's 605 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: the case because I've seen it happen at other places. 606 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: But we were able to keep things moving long enough 607 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 1: for podcasting to become a viable industry in its own right. 608 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: By this time we spun off from System One, we 609 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: were ranked as the second largest podcast publisher behind NPR 610 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: in terms of streams and downloads. But I'm not done 611 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 1: with our story just yet. I'll tell you more in 612 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 1: just a moment, but first let's take another quick break. 613 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: The months went by and we continued producing podcasts. The 614 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 1: website side continued doing their thing, and then in September 615 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: two eighteen, it was announced that I Heart Media, the 616 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:18,320 Speaker 1: audio company formerly known as Clear Channel, was acquiring Stuff 617 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: Media for the reported princely sum of fifty five million dollars. 618 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: By this stage, the stuff Media network consisted of about 619 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: twenty five shows, and it was an interesting move in 620 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 1: part because at the time, I heart Media was still 621 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 1: restructuring under Chapter eleven bankruptcy protection, having accumulated a pretty 622 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: gargantuan debt of around twenty billion dollars. I Heart Media 623 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,880 Speaker 1: was in the process of spinning off clear Channel Outdoor Holdings, 624 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 1: which was its outdoor advertising business think like you know, 625 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 1: digital billboards and stuff like that. That process became complete 626 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 1: in May two thousand nineteen. The acquisition received approval even 627 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: as I heart Media continued to restructure its As for 628 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,880 Speaker 1: the company itself, it is the largest owner of radio 629 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 1: stations in the United States. It owns more than eight 630 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: hundred fifty stations. The company also produces and distributes many podcasts. 631 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,839 Speaker 1: The stuff Media podcast network was seen as a way 632 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:19,399 Speaker 1: to develop that further, and boy, howdy, have we been 633 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 1: producing a lot of new shows since then. We've launched 634 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 1: numerous podcasts leading up to and following the move to 635 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,240 Speaker 1: I Heeart Media. Now you still have the flagship Stuff 636 00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: shows like Stuff you Know, stuff you missed in history class, 637 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: brain Stuff, stuff Mom never told you, stuff they don't 638 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: want you to know, and of course tech Stuff. I've 639 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,240 Speaker 1: heard rumors that at least one former Stuff show maybe 640 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,839 Speaker 1: on its way back very soon, but I'll share more 641 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: about that once it happens. Just wanted to seed a 642 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: little excitement out there that something has coming down the 643 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 1: pipeline now. In addition to the Stuff shows, we have 644 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,839 Speaker 1: tons of other shows that we're producing. Some of them 645 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: are produced in house here in Atlanta, like Chuck Bryant's 646 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,240 Speaker 1: show Movie Crush, in which he sits down with various 647 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 1: interesting people talks to them about their favorite films, sort 648 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: of a launching point for a conversation. We have Savor, 649 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,240 Speaker 1: which was formerly known as food Stuff, that has hosts 650 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: Lauren and Annie, and they're amazing. They just got back 651 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 1: from uh uh incredible trip to Hawaii where I understand 652 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,839 Speaker 1: they talked to almost twenty different people in in interviews, 653 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: so that's amazing. We have the Monster series that's a 654 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: collaboration with Tinderfoot Studios, and it focuses on serial killers. 655 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 1: The first season was about the Atlanta child murders of 656 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 1: the early nineteen eighties. The second season was about the 657 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: Zodiac Killer. We have committed a show about relationships that 658 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,239 Speaker 1: has some truly remarkable stories in it. Oh and I 659 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,240 Speaker 1: do a show called The Brink with my friend Ariel 660 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: Caston where we talk about make or break moments in business. 661 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 1: And there are several others, and it's just a small 662 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: sample of the shows we're doing here in Atlanta. We 663 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,400 Speaker 1: also have tons being produced in New York, d C. 664 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:10,720 Speaker 1: Los Angeles and other places. There's the Daily Zeitgeist, Culture Kings, 665 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: Cabinet of Curiosities, Ask a Manager, Broken Hearts, Dressed Ethnically, Ambiguous, 666 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,480 Speaker 1: Happy Face, and more. We've got a ton of shows 667 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,799 Speaker 1: and development at various stages, and the process is an 668 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: interesting one. So I guess I'm gonna in this episode 669 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 1: by kind of going through what we do behind the 670 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 1: scenes when we want to develop a podcast. So it 671 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: all starts with an idea. Frequently the ideas being pitched 672 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 1: by a person who plans on being involved in the 673 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,360 Speaker 1: show in some capacity, either as a producer or a 674 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: host or sometimes both. The idea is fleshed out and 675 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: typically shared with several others in the company to make 676 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 1: sure it sounds like a sustainable podcast that's worthy of 677 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: the time and attention that will need to succeed because 678 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: it does take a lot of time. You're talking about 679 00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 1: dedicating time to record, to edit, published, so we want 680 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,840 Speaker 1: to make sure that the ideas sound pretty good before 681 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: we start committing resources to them. This idea would then 682 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 1: enter into the pitch process, and we have our shows 683 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,440 Speaker 1: organized by what we call verticals. You could think of 684 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,759 Speaker 1: them sort of like categories, but the categories aren't hard 685 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,839 Speaker 1: and fast, as some shows overlap different categories, or one 686 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: vertical might have shows that you might imagine would fit 687 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 1: in a different category, but they act as general guidelines. 688 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,360 Speaker 1: At the head of each vertical, you have an executive 689 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 1: producer who's in charge of overseeing the development and deployment 690 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 1: of podcasts, as well as someone who remains keyed in 691 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: on how podcasts are doing. You also have a supervising 692 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 1: producer that's someone who's on the technical side of things 693 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,439 Speaker 1: and is helping making sure that all the stuff can 694 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,839 Speaker 1: actually be done. During the pitch process, a show might 695 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,040 Speaker 1: go through some changes, and some of them can be 696 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: really dramatic. Something give me relatively minor. Some shows require 697 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:02,239 Speaker 1: a lot of production. They might have interviews that requires scheduling. 698 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 1: It's a whole nightmare. If I were doing an interview 699 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,840 Speaker 1: based show, I would probably need a lot of help 700 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,240 Speaker 1: because just scheduling that kind of stuff is super tricky. 701 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 1: My hat is off to all the people who do 702 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,719 Speaker 1: incredible interview based shows on our network. Um it is 703 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 1: an amazing amount of work. But you also have stuff 704 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 1: like transitions, you have music, you've got soundscaping and more. 705 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:27,960 Speaker 1: But then you have other types of shows like tech stuff. 706 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:31,359 Speaker 1: Those are pretty easy from a production standpoint. Those shows 707 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: still have some of those elements. Occasionally I might do 708 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: an interview. We do have music, but there's not a 709 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,799 Speaker 1: whole lot of bells and whistles attached to a tech 710 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,400 Speaker 1: stuff episode that not nearly to the extent of a 711 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,319 Speaker 1: highly produced show. Highly produced shows can be flashy. They 712 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,279 Speaker 1: can generate a lot of buzz, and if the show 713 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,240 Speaker 1: is good, it can easily justify the extra work needed 714 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,000 Speaker 1: to produce the podcast. But if it's a highly produced 715 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: show and it's not doing well, it's probably not going 716 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 1: to be around for very long, because it also is 717 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 1: a very visible drain on resources. So the head of 718 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,359 Speaker 1: the verticals choose which show pitches are going to move 719 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 1: forward in the process, and this can get a bit brutal. 720 00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,720 Speaker 1: You might have a potential slate of a dozen brilliant ideas, 721 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,680 Speaker 1: but you might only have the capacity to launch let's say, 722 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,920 Speaker 1: two of them per quarter. On the one hand, it's 723 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 1: great to have the luxury of choice between lots of 724 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,439 Speaker 1: fantastic ideas. On the other it stinks to have to say, 725 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,319 Speaker 1: you know, we can't do this show, at least not yet, 726 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:34,799 Speaker 1: but there are only so many hours in the day, 727 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 1: and we have to be strategic in which shows get 728 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:40,879 Speaker 1: the green light. From that point, the show runners, which 729 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,839 Speaker 1: might include writers, producers, and hosts, and some people might 730 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 1: be wearing multiple hats for a single show, they'll go 731 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,560 Speaker 1: off and they'll develop the idea further. Typically they'll record 732 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 1: a pilot episode. The purpose of the pilot has given 733 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,520 Speaker 1: idea to the production team about what the finished show 734 00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,359 Speaker 1: is going to be like, and it may or may 735 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,680 Speaker 1: not ever be published. That's meant to be sort of 736 00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 1: a prototype for the podcast itself, and frequently upon listening 737 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,080 Speaker 1: to a pilot, Executive, producers and others might have a 738 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,120 Speaker 1: few notes. These are typically suggestions for changes to the show, 739 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,840 Speaker 1: and the notes might include format issues or a question 740 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,040 Speaker 1: about the voice of the show. It might be questions 741 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 1: about who is the intended audience and do you think 742 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 1: this show is speaking to that intended audience. It might 743 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,480 Speaker 1: just be a note that says this is great, but 744 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,719 Speaker 1: it needs to be twenty minutes shorter. I get that 745 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: note a lot, mostly from tari. Typically the show runners 746 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:39,760 Speaker 1: will then take those notes and then make another pass 747 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 1: at it before they will start producing episodes. In earnest, 748 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 1: when it becomes clear that we're going to launch the show, 749 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,080 Speaker 1: when everything's set, when we said, all right, we know 750 00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:50,960 Speaker 1: what it is, we know what sounds like, We're ready 751 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,760 Speaker 1: to go, We're ready to start producing. These other factors 752 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:55,920 Speaker 1: also have to come into play. We have to secure 753 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,520 Speaker 1: u r L s for each show as well as 754 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:02,200 Speaker 1: social media accounts. We have to create logos for the shows. 755 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,440 Speaker 1: We have to assign a show to a marketing team. 756 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,600 Speaker 1: The sales team also has to be keyed into the 757 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:09,719 Speaker 1: launch of new shows. We've got to make sure the 758 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:12,799 Speaker 1: publishing pipeline from back end to the end user is 759 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: ready to go. All this has to be done far 760 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:16,800 Speaker 1: enough in advance so that when it comes time to 761 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,520 Speaker 1: publish the trailer, everything's already in place, and typically that's 762 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,880 Speaker 1: how we start. We record a trailer that explains what 763 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,720 Speaker 1: the show is about, and will frequently PLoP that trailer 764 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 1: into the feeds of other shows on the network, which 765 00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,480 Speaker 1: I'm sure you've heard if you've been subscribed to any 766 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:32,920 Speaker 1: of our podcast for any real length of time. This 767 00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,439 Speaker 1: sort of cross promotion can be incredibly useful, particularly since 768 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 1: we're producing a lot of shows that complement one another. 769 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 1: So if you listen to tech Stuff and you like it, 770 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,919 Speaker 1: you're probably gonna like Sleepwalkers, which is why we will 771 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,680 Speaker 1: run a trailer for Sleepwalkers on the Tech Stuff feed. 772 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,640 Speaker 1: It's not just to promote the show. It's to say, 773 00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,439 Speaker 1: I know, you guys like this stuff, this is something 774 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 1: else you might really dig. You should check it out. 775 00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,880 Speaker 1: And upon publication, we typically have a couple of episodes 776 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:04,560 Speaker 1: ready to download straight away, so instead of just publishing 777 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,759 Speaker 1: episode one, will have maybe episodes one and two, and 778 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:09,880 Speaker 1: that way listeners can check out more than a single 779 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,400 Speaker 1: episode right from the start. We want listeners to have 780 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:13,759 Speaker 1: a good idea of what a show is going to 781 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:15,719 Speaker 1: be like, so they can make that determination about whether 782 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,319 Speaker 1: or not they want to subscribe to the podcast. In 783 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,319 Speaker 1: some cases, they may not. They may say, well, i've 784 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:22,279 Speaker 1: listened to too and I don't know, it's just not 785 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,879 Speaker 1: appealing to me. That's totally valid. But if you listen 786 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,520 Speaker 1: to and you say, man, I really like this, and 787 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,000 Speaker 1: that's a good indication that you know you should subscribe 788 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,719 Speaker 1: to that show. Sometimes shows get a strong following and 789 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:36,080 Speaker 1: they grow from there. Other times shows might take a 790 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,439 Speaker 1: while before they catch on. Some shows might never get 791 00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,839 Speaker 1: much attention at all. Producers sometimes have to decide to 792 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,160 Speaker 1: end a show if it has a small audience and 793 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,799 Speaker 1: the time being spent producing the show could be, you know, 794 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,040 Speaker 1: better used elsewhere. But it's a tough call. There are 795 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,920 Speaker 1: lots of other factors that can also affect the end result. 796 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,840 Speaker 1: For example, a show might have a small but loyal 797 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:02,080 Speaker 1: following and advertisers might just love that show, and in 798 00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,359 Speaker 1: those cases you might say, well, let's keep it going 799 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,400 Speaker 1: and keep trying to grow this audience. Because it's got 800 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,680 Speaker 1: a lot of support behind it. It doesn't make sense 801 00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:12,360 Speaker 1: to just end it. But if a show isn't getting 802 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,799 Speaker 1: much traction, and if you can't sell ads for it, 803 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,600 Speaker 1: it's probably not going to be around very long. This 804 00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,239 Speaker 1: also gets a bit more complicated when you talk about 805 00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,920 Speaker 1: the differences between ongoing shows like Tech Stuff, ones that 806 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,839 Speaker 1: published every week, and then shows that are divided up 807 00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,680 Speaker 1: into seasons. With seasons, you tend to get a pretty 808 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,960 Speaker 1: big bump and subscribers when a show generates some buzz 809 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,719 Speaker 1: when it first premieres, but you're not likely to keep 810 00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,920 Speaker 1: adding at that same pace when you are between seasons, 811 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 1: so that affects things a bit. On the flip side, 812 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,880 Speaker 1: for a show like Tech Stuff that's been running for years, 813 00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,400 Speaker 1: you're not likely to see a big bump in numbers 814 00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,840 Speaker 1: unless one of my episodes gets mentioned on some larger outlet, 815 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:55,040 Speaker 1: or if I land a killer interview with someone important 816 00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,400 Speaker 1: that a lot of people want to hear more about. 817 00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:59,759 Speaker 1: And there are a lot of other moving parts to 818 00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:03,479 Speaker 1: a podcast network. The marketing team is constantly finding ways 819 00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:06,240 Speaker 1: to promote shows and to get them to a wider audience. 820 00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,279 Speaker 1: The social media team works hard to reach out to 821 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,600 Speaker 1: our communities and keep them engaged. The sales team is 822 00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,000 Speaker 1: responsible for landing all those ad deals that pay the 823 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,960 Speaker 1: bills and allow us to actually make these shows. And 824 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,799 Speaker 1: while we're supporting all the shows that are already out there, 825 00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,759 Speaker 1: we're always in the process of making more. Meanwhile, my 826 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,080 Speaker 1: former co workers are on the website side are no 827 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,680 Speaker 1: longer in our office, though they aren't far away. There 828 00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,919 Speaker 1: are a couple of floors above us. Now. They still 829 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,200 Speaker 1: produce content for the website and they do an incredible 830 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,479 Speaker 1: job with it. If you haven't been to How Stuff 831 00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 1: Works in a while, or even if you've never been there, 832 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,320 Speaker 1: I encourage you to check it out. They are producing 833 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:48,560 Speaker 1: fantastic articles and videos, and they are genuinely great people 834 00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,920 Speaker 1: and I miss seeing them every day. I'm very fortunate 835 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,520 Speaker 1: to have so many cool folks working on the Stuff 836 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,879 Speaker 1: Media I Heart side. We keep adding new people as 837 00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,160 Speaker 1: we focus on making existing shows better and bringing new 838 00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,759 Speaker 1: shows to you guys. It's an exciting time for us. 839 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:05,839 Speaker 1: We've received a lot of love from the I Heart 840 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:10,040 Speaker 1: Media side. Now, as I record this, it's nearly on 841 00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:14,640 Speaker 1: the eleventh anniversary of Text Stuff's launch, it's actually just 842 00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,040 Speaker 1: past it. So it's pretty amazing that this podcast has 843 00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,600 Speaker 1: been through so many changes. You know, what it really 844 00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,279 Speaker 1: tells me is that you guys are incredible. I have 845 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,640 Speaker 1: incredible listeners, because without you, this show would have gotten 846 00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:32,240 Speaker 1: the acts a dozen times over. We've had format changes, 847 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,080 Speaker 1: we've had host changes, We've gone through ownership changes more 848 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:39,799 Speaker 1: times than I can count, and you guys have remained constant. 849 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,800 Speaker 1: And that is the reason why I'm still doing this show. 850 00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,960 Speaker 1: So thank you all for listening. I greatly appreciate it. 851 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,040 Speaker 1: And that wraps up this episode about how Stuff Works, 852 00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,319 Speaker 1: and uh, and you know how things are going now 853 00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,560 Speaker 1: that we're a podcast network arm of I Heart Media. 854 00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:59,439 Speaker 1: I am excited to see where things go from here. 855 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:03,680 Speaker 1: It has in a pretty amazing experience so far, one 856 00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:06,080 Speaker 1: that I think it's been more positive than anything else. 857 00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,440 Speaker 1: I've had a lot of opportunities to talk to some 858 00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:14,080 Speaker 1: really smart people in the mass communications world, and it's 859 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:16,560 Speaker 1: nice to get some validation that some of the things 860 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,560 Speaker 1: I've been doing have been right all along, and it's 861 00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,759 Speaker 1: great to get guidance on how I can do other 862 00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:25,320 Speaker 1: stuff better. So I consider that a positive experience overall. 863 00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,719 Speaker 1: If you guys have any suggestions for future episodes of 864 00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,560 Speaker 1: tech Stuff, send me an email the addresses tech Stuff 865 00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,520 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com. Or you can drop 866 00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,000 Speaker 1: me a line on social media. Just go on over 867 00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,680 Speaker 1: to tech stuff podcast dot com that has links to 868 00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,279 Speaker 1: the social media presence, as well as an archive of 869 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:47,040 Speaker 1: all of our past episodes and more information about yours 870 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,640 Speaker 1: truly if for some reason you've gotta know more. Plus 871 00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,240 Speaker 1: there's a link to our online store, where every purchase 872 00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,320 Speaker 1: you make goes to help the show and we greatly 873 00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:58,879 Speaker 1: appreciate it, and I'll talk to you again really soon. 874 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:06,480 Speaker 1: Y text Stuff is a production of I heart Radio's 875 00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,480 Speaker 1: How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, 876 00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:13,000 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 877 00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:14,600 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.