1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mob Never Told You from housetopporks dot com. 2 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline, 3 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: and since the holidays have arrived, we decided to talk 4 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: about pie for an entire podcast. That's right, it's history. 5 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: It's very multifaceted, beautiful, tasty, bubbly history. Yes, and there's 6 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 1: lots of gender involved with piemaking that we'll get into later. 7 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: But first off, Caroline, I want to ask you what 8 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: your favorite pie is or do you have a favorite pie. 9 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: Are you more of a cake person? Well, I gotta 10 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 1: say I was not a pie fan. When I was 11 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: growing up. We didn't really do pies in the urban household. 12 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: We were cake people. Um, so pecan pie was as 13 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: adventurous as we would get. Honestly, I gotta say I 14 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: just prefer cake. Really, So, you don't have a favorite pie, no, 15 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: unless chocolate is involved, really, then that's my only stipulation. 16 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, chocolate can absolutely be involved in a pie. 17 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: Let me tell you in fact, Caroline, baking fact about 18 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: your co host Kristen, I will not refer to myself 19 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: in the third person anymore. Is that my family, like 20 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: known recipe that I and I alone make is a 21 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: French silk pie chocolate pie, and make my own whip 22 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: cream topping, which is not a part of the recipe. 23 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: I just put it on top because what makes a 24 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,919 Speaker 1: pie better than whipped cream? Nothing? Yeah, absolutely nothing. Um So, 25 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: even though my family isn't a super heavy and desserts, 26 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: my mom always enjoyed baking and so I kind of 27 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: inherited that from her. And I love a good pie. 28 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: I love a good pie. And you know what I'm 29 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: gonna say, I prefer pie to cake because it's not 30 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: as heavy as cake. Yeah. Wow. See, I feel like 31 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: pie with its pastry crust and it's lattice work and 32 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: it's uey gouey nous like pie is kind of heavy. 33 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: We can we're gonna have to agree to disagree wars. Well, 34 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:23,959 Speaker 1: you know, it's not heavy actually, so I take back 35 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: some of what I said. My mom does quote unquote 36 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: make a pie sometimes lemon ice box pie, but nothing 37 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: about it is homemade. So it's the store about crust 38 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 1: and it is like the jello, you know, putting lemon 39 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: pudding stuff with a cool whip on top, and my 40 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: dad eats it. He's the only one who eats it. 41 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: That actually sounds pretty good to me. But I guess 42 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: it's only confirmation that I'm I'm a pie person, I'm 43 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 1: a pie lady. But one thing, though, that is indisputable 44 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: is that pie at least beats cake in terms of 45 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:02,519 Speaker 1: historical longevity. Pies have been around for so long. Yeah, 46 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: and they are very significant too, pretty much every culture 47 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: that has come before us. Yeah. We learned some tasty 48 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 1: historical facts about pie from the American Pie Council, because yes, 49 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: there's a pie lobby that exists, and also from the 50 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: New York Times, both of which describe how pie has 51 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: been around since the ancient Egyptians. I feel like the 52 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: ancient Egyptians always factor into our stuff. I've never told 53 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: you conversations. Um, And it was a very old culinary invention. 54 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: Janet Clarkson, who wrote Pie a Global History, says that 55 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: once upon a time, everything baked in the oven that 56 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: was not a bread was a pie, right And and 57 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 1: because the way that things had to be cooked and preserved, 58 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like there were refrigerators or regular 59 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: ovens hanging around, so often food would be put into 60 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: this sort of terrible sounding clay like pastry and and 61 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: baked in an effort to preserve it. And the first 62 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: pies were actually made by early Romans who then may 63 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: have learned about it through the Greeks. So we think 64 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: we're the originators of the pastry shell, which they made 65 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: by combining flour and water, which sounds like such a 66 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: basic thing. Obviously it's kind of a cornerstone fundamental of baking. 67 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: But that flower and water combo was pretty revolutionary, and 68 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: those pies using a pastry shell very rudimentary. Pastry shell 69 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 1: would have been a step above what they used to do, 70 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 1: which would have simply been wrapping reads or large leafs 71 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: around meats in particular to preserve its juicy goodness. Just 72 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: put that pie in some grass, yeah, grass pie, or 73 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: it sounds like what I used to make in the 74 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: backyard of the child. Um. Anyways, the speaking of the Romans, 75 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: they enjoyed meat pies during the dessert course, so pie 76 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: was still a dessert for them, but it was it 77 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: was meaty, not not berry ish. Um. And the first 78 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: published Roman pie recipe was for goat, cheese and honey pie, 79 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: which to me actually sounds incredible. Yeah, that sounds very good. 80 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: And Cato the Elder, for instance, wrote about the most 81 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 1: popular pie of his time, which was called placenta placenta pie. 82 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: You read about this in day Agricultura. And I don't 83 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: have the recipe for placenta in front of me, but 84 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: I believe it is one of those savory pies that 85 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 1: would have come out during the secun di mensa or 86 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: that dessert course. And I can only imagine the visual 87 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: now being created in listeners minds by the two words 88 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: placenta pie. Well, I know what's being created in mine. Well, 89 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: so anyway, um, let's let's travel to England in the 90 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 1: twelfth century up pies. That's when pies originally appeared. And 91 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: of course they were spelled very early English e with 92 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: a y instead of an eye, and they were predominantly 93 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: meat pies. We really don't get into sweet fruity pies 94 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 1: until a lot later and during the Middle Ages. The 95 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: pie crust, like I was saying earlier, was more of 96 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: a baking dish. It was kind of a container and 97 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: food preserver, and it was so sturdy that cooks actually 98 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: might have reused it from time to time. Yeah, there's 99 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: some medieval text talking about how the poorer masses might 100 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: have gotten the discards of this really thick, almost inedible 101 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 1: pie crust from wealthier people's pies, but this was because 102 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: of how meat was cooked at the time. It was 103 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:46,119 Speaker 1: cooked on an open spit, which rendered it drier and 104 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: smaller because all those juices were being released, and so 105 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: people started wrapping it up to yeah, to keep that 106 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 1: almost like a pot pie, to keep all that that meaty, 107 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: juicy goodness inside. And they called this bake meat m 108 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: e t E. And so for hundreds of years, this 109 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: primitive pie crust was really the only type of baking 110 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: dish available. And fun fact, because it really served as 111 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: a dish for your food rather than something that would 112 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: enhance the flavor of say a dessert, the crust of 113 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: pie was referred to as a coffin. Mm hmmm, yeah, 114 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: that's weird and morbid. Well because at that time coffin 115 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: simply denoted baskets, right, um well, Often these meaty pies 116 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: were made using foul and the legs This is I 117 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: just the legs were left to hang over the side 118 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: of the dish and used as handles, which also indicates 119 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: how tough those pie p y e crusts were at 120 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: the time. Um, but when we move into the fourteen century, 121 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: By this point the Oxford English Dictionary notes that pie 122 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: had become a popular word. So clearly, you know, people 123 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: were eating pie. There was a lot of pie going around. 124 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: And then in the sixteenth century in England we have 125 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: the emergence of fruit pies or tarts also called pasties. 126 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: And I love this English tradition credits the making of 127 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: the first cherry pie to Queen Elizabeth the first. Is 128 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: she the type? Is she the type too have made 129 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: a pie? I don't see Queen Elizabeth a verse making 130 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: a pie at all. I don't either, But I mean, 131 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 1: I guess those are the kinds of benefits you get 132 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 1: if you are a queen. People just say you do 133 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: marvelous things such as make the first cherry pie. Yeah, 134 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: and I would have asked Queen Elizabeth, I would have 135 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: accepted that compliment, and I would have saiden. Indeed, these days, 136 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: if you were queen, your your special thing would probably 137 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: be in contemporary terms of be like Queen Caroline. You, oh, yes, 138 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: you invented working. Of course, he took the first selfie. 139 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: You're exactly right, I actually take credit for t working anyway, 140 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 1: um and working selfies. That's right. So speaking of pie 141 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: events in the sixteenth century, apple pie is mentioned in 142 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: the fift eighty nine poem by Our Green Thy Breath 143 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: is like the scheme of apple pies hot cinnamon bra 144 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: basically um. But pies also took a weird turn around 145 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: this time as well, because there was a meat pie craze. 146 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: This was described in an article in The l A 147 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: Times talking about the history of pot pies, and it 148 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: mentions that a mid sixteenth century cookbook included a recipe 149 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: for a and just vegetarians and vegans listening, you might 150 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: want to put down your headphones right now because it 151 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: was a five bird pie, in which each bird was 152 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: stuffed inside the other bird, and then all of that 153 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: wrapped up in in a pie. So like the predecessor 154 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 1: to a turre duck in yes, but pie, but pie, 155 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: but that could only be topped by pies that would 156 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: contain live birds and animals. This was like a really 157 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 1: fun party trick for super rich people. They would say, 158 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: make me a pie with with live snakes inside of it. Yeah, 159 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:38,319 Speaker 1: like Indiana gents. Um, Well, at least it wasn't monkey brains, 160 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: I guess. But I mean they also had people popping 161 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: out of pies. I mean the we think of like 162 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: the cheesy woman popping out of a cake today, But 163 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: people did pop out of these pies. They did not 164 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 1: go through the oven. But yeah, there are stories about 165 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: like little people popping out of pies and then serving 166 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: as the court jester, or a young woman who popped 167 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: out of a pie and she was bound to symbolize 168 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: like the religious constraints of of the pope. You know, 169 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: they got elaborate with these pies. Yeah, that whole nursery. 170 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: I'm about a sing a song of sixpence that talks 171 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: about how many four blackbirds baked in a pie that 172 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: is in reference to these quote unquote surprise pies that 173 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: are full of surprises, and by surprises live animals and people. Well, 174 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: so do you eat? Was there anything once the birds 175 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: flew out of the pie? Was there anything to eat 176 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 1: in it? Because I'd be afraid there would just be 177 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: a lot of bird dudo inside of it. Well, probably 178 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: if you were at a feast hosted by someone as 179 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: wealthy as to have one of these surprise pies I'm imagining. 180 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: And also because like medieval tapestries would show this that 181 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: there would be a table before you laden with other dishes. 182 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: So maybe it's you know that sounds delicious, Yeah, minus 183 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: the birds that are flying the minus minus the bird 184 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: poop from all of those. But that's a general life policy, yes, yes, um. Well, so, 185 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: speaking of cakes, also, cakes were not the original wedding food. 186 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 1: Before wedding cakes, bride pies were popular in England the 187 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: seventeenth century. Bride pies were probably actually savory rather than sweet, 188 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: and there was a tradition of putting a glass ring 189 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: inside them and whatever woman got a piece with the 190 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 1: ring was said to be the next bride. Also sounds dangerous, 191 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: uh in terms of tooth chipping. Well, judging by how 192 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: fast I tend to eat pastries and pies, I would 193 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:39,319 Speaker 1: probably suck that sucker down. You just swallow it. Yeah, okay, 194 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: But we have that shift though toward the popularity of 195 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: the wedding cake, as well as the tradition of the 196 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: white wedding dress with the marriage of Queen Victoria to 197 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: Prince Albert in eighteen forty. But one of the reasons 198 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: too why you would have savory bride pies as opposed 199 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: to wedding cakes is because of the price of sugar. 200 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,839 Speaker 1: The price of sugar was very high. Um. But Queen 201 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: Victoria had a nine foot tall wedding cake that I 202 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: believe wied five pounds um. But a lot of this 203 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: was the product of people donating goods to this royal 204 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: wedding feast, because even for a queen, all that sweet 205 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: cake would have been such an exorbitant expense. Wells, you 206 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: know when when the English colonists moved over to America, 207 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: they brought the pie tradition with them. This is coming 208 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: again from the American Pie Council in the New York 209 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: Times and Time magazine. The colonists basically eight pie out 210 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: of necessity because it was an incredibly calorie dense food 211 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 1: and like we said, it could preserve quite a few 212 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: of their food items. Yeah. And Andrew F. Smith, who's 213 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: a food historian and author, said that the crust was 214 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: a bit of a problem because there were none of 215 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: the old World grains. But if settlers had a pie 216 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: ton and maze, that worked. And he talks about how 217 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: pies use less flour than bread and could be easily 218 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 1: and cheaply baked. And again, though these early American pie 219 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: crusts weren't so much intended to be eaten as designed 220 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: to hold the filling during the baking and during the 221 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: American Revolution the term crust was used instead of coffin, 222 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: So we're still having evolution of pie making, even as 223 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: the crust part is still not so much delectable. Well, 224 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: and plus, I mean, pie was your handy dandy finger 225 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: food because before the mid mid eight hundreds, most Americans 226 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: didn't have forks. We went for a long time in 227 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: our nation's history without having many forks. So we were 228 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: a nation founded upon hot pockets escension. Yeah, I I 229 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: think that we. Yes, this episode is brought to you 230 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: by hot pockets. Now, even though most Americans didn't have 231 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: works before the mid nineteenth century, what we did have, 232 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: though was pumpkin pie. Because the first recipe known recipe 233 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: at least for pumpkin pie, was written in the seventeenth 234 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: century in England, and it was really just like, hey, 235 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: we've got this the squash, spice it up, put it 236 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: in one of your coffins, and bought a boom. You've 237 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: got pumpkin pie. But then when we come over to 238 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: the America's it wasn't popularized over here until the early 239 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds. Yeah, it originated from the delectable British spiced 240 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: and boiled squash. Boiled, they boiled it. Oh that we 241 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: get a self in it somehow, Well I guess yeah, yeah, 242 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: you're you're not wrong. Um. But apple pie another another favorite. 243 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: It's an old world fruit introduced by the colonists, and 244 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: apple pies could be saved over the wind tore and 245 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: ice houses. So it was a great sweet, as we said, 246 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: calorie riffic treat that they could rely on to get 247 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: them through long cold winters. Yeah. But speaking of that 248 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: sweet treat, one of the appeals of an apple pie 249 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: maybe was that it was naturally sweet, because again, these 250 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,880 Speaker 1: old World pies would not have had the benefit of 251 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: of sugar because again the price of sugar was so 252 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,520 Speaker 1: high for so long, so instead of using sugar, the 253 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: initial pies sweeteners would have been things like maple syrup 254 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: and molasses. Although once the price of sugar started to 255 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: drop in the United States in the mid eighteen hundreds, 256 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: you have more and more sweeter pies take over. Because 257 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: in seventeen a cookbook from the time listed only three 258 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: types of sweet pies, but then by the late eighteen hundreds. 259 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: You only have still eight types of sweet pies, But 260 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: by nineteen forty seven, the modern Encyclopedia of King list 261 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: sixty five different varieties of sweet pies. Yeah, and that 262 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 1: Graham cracker crust that my mother buys from the grocery 263 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: store to use in my father's weird jello lemon ice 264 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: box pies. It's infinitely easier than a pastry cut crust. 265 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: But it's relatively new, and it didn't come around until 266 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: about the nineteen thirties, and it was it was very 267 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,119 Speaker 1: controversial among pie people. But I'm going to go ahead 268 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: and say it. A Graham cracker crust is just so good. Well, 269 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 1: I think in my mind a Graham cracker crust is 270 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 1: second only to an Oreo crust. Oh, I agree with 271 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: you there. Yeah, that's another thing about my signature French 272 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: silk pie. I'll make an Oreo crust for it. Well. No, 273 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: my my aunt every year makes for Thanksgiving. Her specialty 274 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:49,640 Speaker 1: is making a cheesecake, a beautiful plain cheesecake with an 275 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: oreo crust, and it is I could eat the whole thing. 276 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: But here is here's a fun fact about American pie traditions. 277 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: Because the most popular hi in the United States is 278 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 1: the apple pie. There's a whole saying of as American 279 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: as apple pie. We've got bye bye miss American pie. 280 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: You know, we're all about apple pie over here. But 281 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: it was not America's first beloved pie. In fact, George 282 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: Washington himself was not an apple pie guy so much 283 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: as a sweetbread pie, which means that old Martha Washington 284 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: because this was in one of her rescue books. She 285 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: liked to make a sweetbread pie pie for Georgie boy. 286 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 1: But sweetbreads are not so sweet as savory because they 287 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: are animal intestines. Yeah, like organ meats. Oh, what's worse? 288 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: Birds popping out of your pie or organ meats? Well, 289 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: I well, at least you wouldn't have to eat the 290 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 1: empty bird crust thing crust pie. So contrary to all 291 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: of this American lore about apple pies being the most 292 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: American thing, it was actually mince pie that was America's 293 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: number one treat during the nineteenth and early twentieth century, 294 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 1: and mince pie had some surprises in it, namely rum yeah. 295 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: During prohibition. In fact, mince pie became sort of like 296 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: a bootleggers delight because, as pointed out in a great 297 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: article on the history of mince pie in the Chicago Reader. 298 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: A nineteen nineteen article in the Chicago Tribune reported that 299 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: the average alcohol content of canned mints like the filling 300 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: the mince pie filling, the alcohol content was fourteen point 301 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: one two per cent. That's that's a heavy pie. Yeah, 302 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: that is a heavy pie. But before then, though, Americans 303 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: were already crazy about mince pie. I mean, what was 304 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: it there was? Oh yeah, there was an eighteen eighty 305 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: article in the Montpellier Argus and Patriot that said, mince pie, 306 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: like masonry, arouses curiosity from the mystery attaching to it. 307 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:10,439 Speaker 1: It's popularity shall never wane until faith is lost in sight. 308 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 1: That's how much we loved mince pie. Yeah, and the 309 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: guy in the Reader was comparing the downfall, the fading 310 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: out of the mince pie popularity too if we suddenly 311 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: just decided to stop eating cheeseburgers as a nation, Like 312 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: it was that popular and that ingrained in our diet. 313 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: But it was also similar to us loving cheeseburgers so much, 314 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: we also knew that it wasn't so good for us 315 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: because mince pie is essentially a combination of animal fat 316 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: and sort of roast beef ish type of meat ground up, 317 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: and then you had a bunch of spices and obviously 318 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: a lot of booze if it's during prohibition, and you 319 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: bake it all together. And this guy in the Chicago 320 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,040 Speaker 1: Reader baked his own mince pie and he enjoyed it 321 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: for its fatty, spicy goodness. Um. But there were some 322 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: strange things that were going along with this mince pie craze, 323 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: such as Albert Allen's mince pie defense in nineteen o seven. Yeah, 324 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: so Alan was in Chicago and he used mince pie 325 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: as a defense for fatally shooting his wife in nineteen 326 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: oh seven. He said that he was this mince pie 327 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: had created such bad nightmares that he was like gambling 328 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 1: and someone was trying to steal money from him, and 329 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: so he wanted in his dream, wanted to shoot the guy. 330 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: And he woke up and he had shot his wife dead. Yeah. 331 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: And there was another case where a guy on a 332 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: boat died and at first I thought there was foul play, 333 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: but it turned out that he had just eaten way 334 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: too much mince pie. And so for that reason, there 335 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 1: were all these warnings about the bizarre side effects of 336 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: eating mince pie because apparently you couldn't eat just one piece. 337 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: All these stories about people eating like entire mints pies, um, 338 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,919 Speaker 1: and it led to things like, of course indigestion, but 339 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: also nightmares, hallucinations, and even just death. Reading that Chicago 340 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 1: Reader article and you know, reading all of the ingredients 341 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: that the guy used, I mean the amount of animal fat, 342 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 1: like weird, weird animal fat that he put into it. 343 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: I'm sure it did like instantly clog your arteries, but 344 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: I can also imagine how savory that probably is as well. Again, 345 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 1: vegetarians and vegans, I'm sorry, but the topic of our 346 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: Thanksgiving podcast, The Mother of Thanksgiving herself, Sarah Josepha Hale, 347 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: makes an appearance in the mince pie craze. Yeah. She 348 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: wrote in eight forty one in the Victorian American cookbook 349 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 1: The Good Housekeeper, the dangers of eating too much of 350 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,360 Speaker 1: this pie, well pie in general, right, not just mince pie. Um. 351 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 1: She talked out how people of delicate constitutions um should 352 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: not eat pie because it would injure them, and that 353 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 1: the nature of pastry is just indigestible, and so she 354 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,679 Speaker 1: said it would really be a great improvement in the 355 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: matter of health if people would eat their delicious summer 356 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: fruits with good light bread instead of working up the 357 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: flour with water and butter to a compound that almost 358 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: defies the digestive powers and baking therein the fruits till 359 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: they lose nearly all their fine original flavor. So Americans 360 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 1: have been panicking about the national diet for ever. It 361 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 1: seems like yeah, well, especially since they tied it into 362 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,640 Speaker 1: like doing crazy things like eating poorly and drinking too 363 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,360 Speaker 1: much made you just act like a crazy person. Well, 364 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 1: and also at the turn of the century there was 365 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: this movement towards more exercise for people focusing on diet. 366 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: I mean, speaking of graham crackers, you have the invention 367 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 1: of the graham cracker that was supposed to be you know, 368 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: that your staple food that you kind of lived off 369 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 1: up to be healthier. So men's pies bore some of 370 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: the brunt for that. And also just at that time, 371 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: people were making a lot of pies because for so 372 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: long it was the standard way that we ate food. Um, 373 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:20,719 Speaker 1: but piemaking did go through a twentieth century declined because 374 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: of things like women entering the workforce, and so we 375 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: didn't have all that time to make pies. I know, 376 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: I can't imagine. I can't imagine the amount of time 377 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: dedicated to cooking all of these meals every day, cooking 378 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:39,679 Speaker 1: elaborate pies from scratch. Um. Pie making did rebound a 379 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: little bit after World War Two because modern food advances 380 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: appeared that made pie making easier. You have things like shortening, 381 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: You have ready made crusts, box mixes, and instant pudding. 382 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 1: You have refrigeration. Although all of those post World War 383 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:59,479 Speaker 1: Two innovations that were so time changing and revolutionary in 384 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: those kids at the time, would now be very much 385 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: looked down upon by modern piemakers who are all about 386 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: going old school with no shortening and using good butter 387 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: and flour. Um. And apparently there was in the nineteen 388 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: eighties a pie revival, it's according to the History Kitchen, 389 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: and I feel like pie making and baking is really 390 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: regaining a lot of attention today as well. But it's 391 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 1: funny to look back and see that the most popular 392 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: pies in our country still hearken back to those earlier 393 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,959 Speaker 1: eras of needing to preserve food, living off of the land, 394 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: needing to have something to do with strange confounding gourds 395 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 1: like pumpkins because, according to a two thousand eight survey 396 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 1: from the American Pie Council and Crisco, U n of 397 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 1: Americans prefer apple pie, followed by pumpkin at thirteen, pecan 398 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: at twelve, banana cream at ten percent, and cherry at 399 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: nine percent. What I want to know is where are 400 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,639 Speaker 1: the key lime pie lovers? Hello? Are you out there? 401 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,719 Speaker 1: Because I'm sitting here because and I love a key 402 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: lime pie and pie. Maybe they had weird stipulations about 403 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: the ingredients. I don't know. I don't know, I don't know, 404 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: but I will say that cherry pie always makes me 405 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 1: think of twin peaks as well, and it makes me 406 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,919 Speaker 1: crave cherry pie. God, I just want pie, Caroline, I know, 407 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: I really just want a lot of food. Right now, 408 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: I'm I'm yeah, it's pie hour and by that I 409 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: mean lunchtime. Um. But we've got to now talk about 410 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 1: gender and pie because there's a funny thing about pie 411 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 1: where in you don't see a lot of culinary evolution. 412 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 1: We're still eating the same pies that our forefathers and 413 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: four mothers were eating, and in a similar kind of way, 414 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: pie making the act of making a pie is still 415 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: very much linked specifically to the female all experience. Absolutely. 416 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, back in the day, that's that's 417 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: who was in the kitchen making those pies, whether it 418 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 1: was from scratch or whether it was using those modern 419 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: pie advances. And a two thousand eight pie Slice of 420 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,360 Speaker 1: Life survey Man two thousand eight was a big year 421 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: for pie surveys. I was conducted by Schwann's Consumer Brands 422 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: of North America. They asked survey respondents which mother would 423 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: make the best pie because obviously they you know, wouldn't 424 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,400 Speaker 1: be which person It would have to be a stereotypical 425 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: TV mom. Yeah, of course. Well, so respondents said that 426 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: Carol Brady of the Brady Bunch of People picked her 427 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 1: to make the best pie of all the TV moms, 428 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 1: followed by The Cosby Shows Claire Huxtable with and to that, 429 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,959 Speaker 1: I say, please, Claire Huxtable doesn't have time to make 430 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: up pie. She's a lawyer. I was thinking the same thing. 431 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: Well anyway. Coming in third with sixtent was Desperate Housewives 432 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:03,120 Speaker 1: Brie van de Camp and Everybody Loves Raymonds Deborah Barrone 433 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: with We should also know, though, that the same survey 434 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: did also ask who makes the best pie. The number 435 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: one answer was mom, number two was, well, your grocery store, 436 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 1: and number three was Grandma. So again we have, uh, 437 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,840 Speaker 1: you know, women making the pies. And there is a 438 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,679 Speaker 1: book called Can She Bake a Cherry Pie? American Women 439 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: and the Kitchen in the twentieth Century by Mary Drake mcpheely, 440 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 1: and she talks about how in the rural America of 441 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: the past, a woman's reputation might be attached to her 442 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,719 Speaker 1: piemaking skills. And she talks about this folk song called 443 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: Billy Boy, which I had forgotten that I knew. We 444 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: used to sing it when I was a kid, And 445 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: there's this verse about how well can she make a 446 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: cherry pie? Charming Billy because he's talking about this amazing 447 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: woman that he met, and it's like, well, yeah, she 448 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: might so be great and really pretty, but can she 449 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: bake you a pie? And he's like, yes, she can 450 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: make a pie. She's the apple of my eye. And 451 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: then they're like, Okay, in that case, Billy, go ahead 452 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,480 Speaker 1: marry this woman, thank god, because who cares about any 453 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 1: other skills? Yeah? Um. But even though as home cooking 454 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: became less essential, mcpheeley says piemaking continue to be seen 455 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: as a measure of a woman's true value. Yeah, I 456 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: mean I think I think, uh, women are kind of 457 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: getting the chaft there if our our skills and our 458 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: value is based on our our cooking ability. Although I mean, 459 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: you know, like my mother and in our house has 460 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,080 Speaker 1: always done all of the cooking, it just seems like 461 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: it's more of more of the woman's domain. And much 462 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: like Sarah Josefa Hale wanted Thanksgiving, for instance, to serve 463 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 1: as a time for women to show off their culinary 464 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: skills and really be able to get in there and 465 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: celebrate a holiday for once, pies were kind of that 466 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: bump up to It was like, you know, show off 467 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: your skills with lattice designs, crazy things with crazy pastry 468 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: shapes and things. Yeah, I feel like pie making is 469 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: deceptively difficult, because I've tried to make a number of 470 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 1: pies and honestly, one of the reasons why I make 471 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: French silk pie is because it's so simple. You literally 472 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: melt chocolate, melt butter, put in a bunch of sugar 473 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: and mix it until it's smooth and poured into an 474 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: oreo shell or whatever. Gonna shell you want. But to 475 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: make a fruit pie one that has that thick but gooey, 476 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: perfect filling, and to do something like a lattice work 477 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: I have tried and failed so many times, and it 478 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: might taste okay, But to make a pie that looks 479 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: good and taste good is such a challenge. And I 480 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: feel like we always think that cakes are so impressive 481 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: because you they have to rise, and these these creations 482 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: are almost like just like the huge towers and you 483 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: have the frosting and all the stuff that's going on, 484 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: whereas pies might look so simple to pull off. But 485 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: I can see how in the complexity of actually making pies, 486 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: how that translates to being this sort of milestone culinary 487 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: task historically for women, because like, well, if you can 488 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: make a pie, then you must be good at other 489 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: things well. And I mean even the act of baking 490 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: is celebrated by some as a feminist act. Nigella Lawson, 491 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: famous TV cook, got slammed for saying that baking is 492 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: a feminist act. She said baking is the less applauded 493 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: of the cooking arts, whereas restaurants are a male province 494 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: to be celebrated. There's something intrinsically misogynistic about decrying a 495 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: tradition because it has always been female. I'm not being 496 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: entirely facetious when I say it's a feminist tract. But 497 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: speaking of feminism and pie making, we did find a 498 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: paper that looked into dessert making not so much as 499 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: a culinary action, what how that relates to women's gender roles, 500 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 1: but how we refer to women often in terms of 501 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: pie and other sweets. This is a paper by Caitlin 502 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: Hines called Rebaking the Pie but Woman as dessert metaphor, 503 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: and she talks about how, for instance, by eighteen sixty four, 504 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 1: the word tart, which is a type of pie, it 505 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: had the slang definition of a term of approval to 506 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 1: a young woman for whom some attraction is felt. And 507 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: you know, here women being referred to as slices of 508 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,719 Speaker 1: pie or slices of cake, which Hinz talks about how 509 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: that implies objectification, sexual consumption, and that like pie, women 510 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: are simply meant for sharing. Yeah, she writes, as desserts, 511 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,239 Speaker 1: women can be bomded, soldat, elaborately decorated, admired for their 512 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 1: outward appearance, dismissed as sinful, and decadent, etcetera, etcetera. And 513 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: she cites the late Alan Dundee's who was a UC 514 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: Berkeley anthropology professor, and basically he discusses the socially sanctioned 515 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: saccharine quality of females, which is confirmed later in life 516 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: by such terms of endearment a sweetheart, honeybunch, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. 517 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 1: And so basically, you know, saying that these terms, these 518 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 1: sugary terms, are a way to dismiss women, kind of 519 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: in one fell swoop. But I mean the thing is 520 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: that reading this paper about women as dessert metaphors, like 521 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: I understand it, there's obviously a lot of power in language, 522 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: and when you stop and think about the terms and 523 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: the slang that we used to refer to people who 524 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: are not exactly like ourselves, you can uncover some problematic 525 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: things in that. But with this whole conversation about piemaking 526 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: and whether or not my be wrong to call someone 527 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 1: sweetie pie, I think I don't think that that that's 528 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,319 Speaker 1: the issue. I don't see anything wrong with you know, 529 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: women making pies. I love to make pies. I love 530 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: to eat pies. Um, I don't know, it's like where 531 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: I feel like when in reading that kind of uh analysis, 532 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:25,760 Speaker 1: that kind of really specific analysis on the intersection of 533 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,880 Speaker 1: pies and desserts and feminism, what did you think was it? 534 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 1: Is it kind of too much at that point? I 535 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,840 Speaker 1: I mean I tried to keep an open mind reading 536 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: that paper, um, because I see what she's getting at 537 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: as far as using terminology, using slang to dismiss women 538 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:48,359 Speaker 1: or or somehow reduce them. Um. But yeah, I mean 539 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: it's it's it's the paper talking about women as pastry. 540 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: But that ties perfectly back to what Nigella Lawson was 541 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:02,399 Speaker 1: saying in terms of don't dismiss baking as a less 542 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: legitimate or respectable form of a culinary art compared to 543 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: something like molecular gastronomy, something that seems you know, more scientific, 544 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:16,279 Speaker 1: um or or more male you know. Um. So it's 545 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,280 Speaker 1: fascinating when you sit and think about the gender politics 546 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:24,800 Speaker 1: tied up with pie, because even today it's still considered 547 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: a female province, the making of the pie. There was 548 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,320 Speaker 1: this blog post over at Chow from two thousand seven 549 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 1: talking about cookbook that was put out at the time 550 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: by Patti Pinner called Sweetie Pies, an uncommon collection of 551 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: womanish observations with pie and the blogger Karaz Wauro talks 552 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: about how the entire cookbook is a gender specific spin 553 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 1: on the art of pie baking. Yeah, she quotes Pinner 554 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 1: who says, uh that she is a descendant of that 555 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: generation where a woman's appear, arn's manner, and domestic prowess 556 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: were synonymous with her feminine identity and that kind of 557 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 1: uh in light of talking about baking and a woman's 558 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: place and feminism and everything. I mean, that's kind of 559 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: that takes you aback for a minute. Um, But I 560 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: think penn Er is celebrating pies and baking and just 561 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: that that kind of artistry that goes along with it. 562 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,360 Speaker 1: It is weird that she said that she's a descendant 563 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:31,279 Speaker 1: of that generation where you're feminine identity was synonymous with 564 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 1: your domestic prowess. But it's I feel like we have 565 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,280 Speaker 1: more maybe freedom to reclaim a lot of that stuff. 566 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:45,720 Speaker 1: These days. There has been a revival of domestic arts, 567 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 1: whether it is pie making or baking, or knitting or canning, 568 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 1: whatever it might be. I feel like a lot of 569 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 1: women are circling back to these kinds of slower ways 570 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,839 Speaker 1: of making things. In the home. Yeah, well, I mean yeah, 571 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 1: we've talked about stuff like that before, like even with 572 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 1: our Manic Pixie Dream Girl podcast, you know, where it's like, well, 573 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: you shouldn't dis you know, girly things or baking or 574 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 1: cupcakes just because they make you think of some type 575 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 1: of woman that you don't like, or you know whatever. 576 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,880 Speaker 1: We shouldn't dismiss people's pastimes or eating habits or baking 577 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 1: habits just because we also tend to associate them with 578 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: a bygone era. Exactly. Yeah, And by the same token, 579 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: we shouldn't dismiss maybe men who want to get in 580 00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,799 Speaker 1: on the pie baking game. I for one would love 581 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 1: it if my boyfriend never wanted to make me a pie. 582 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,399 Speaker 1: I should just ask him. I bet he just say, 583 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 1: baked me a pie. Bake me a pie, please, sir um. 584 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,279 Speaker 1: But speaking of which, there was a recent post by 585 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,800 Speaker 1: this guy, Brian O'Neill over the Post Gazette and m 586 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: He talks about how he made his very first pie. 587 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,799 Speaker 1: He was like, I know, this probably doesn't sound like 588 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 1: a big deal to you, uh, he says. Quote. I 589 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 1: was born in nineteen fifty six, a member of one 590 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 1: of the last generations for which gender roles were rigidly defined, 591 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: at least in my house, and it was a celebratory 592 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,799 Speaker 1: act for him. He was like, I I made an 593 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,440 Speaker 1: apple pie and it was delicious, and I didn't make 594 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: the crust myself, but I still felt pretty cool doing 595 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: this thing that would have felt like a subversive act 596 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 1: for a man of my generation. Yeah. I mean if 597 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,320 Speaker 1: he had done that, if he had been that age 598 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,080 Speaker 1: the year he was born making that pie, people would 599 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:33,879 Speaker 1: be like, what are you? Why are you doing that? 600 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 1: Let your wife do that? Why are you cooking that pie? 601 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:42,640 Speaker 1: Where's your Betty Draper? You need some scotch? Go sit down. Um. 602 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,839 Speaker 1: But speaking of male bakers, you know now we want 603 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 1: to hear from you, guys. We want to know whether 604 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 1: or not you're baking pies, ladies, anybody else. What's your 605 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: favorite pie? Do you enjoy piemaking? Are you more more 606 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 1: of a cake person like Caroline? I'm not gonna judge, really, 607 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 1: I don't discriminate against any sweets, but you know what, 608 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 1: it's so, there are plenty of people who prefer the 609 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 1: cake over the pie. I just I'm just more in 610 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 1: the pie camp, which may or may not have been 611 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,320 Speaker 1: part of my interests of pursuing this podcast topic. Um, 612 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 1: but yet again, I do feel like pie is one 613 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 1: of those topics where it seems so simple and unassuming, 614 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 1: but when you start unpacking the history, there's so much. Yeah. 615 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 1: I mean, it fed entire cultures for centuries. It was 616 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: the way that people sustain themselves. That it was brought 617 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 1: to the New world. You know, it was entertainment. It 618 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 1: was yeah, so many different things. And bride pie, I 619 00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:48,839 Speaker 1: like that idea. Screw wedding cake, savory breade. I'll haven't 620 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 1: been spied my wedding. Please, So send us all of 621 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 1: your pie related thoughts and any pictures of pie. I'll 622 00:39:55,600 --> 00:40:00,920 Speaker 1: appreciate that any pie recipes, send them all our way. 623 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: Because it's the holidays and it's time to eat, folks. 624 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,480 Speaker 1: So email us. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com is 625 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,720 Speaker 1: where you can send your letters. You can also tweet 626 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,360 Speaker 1: us tweet us pie picks at Mom's Stuff podcast, or 627 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,839 Speaker 1: you can also message us on Facebook. And we've got 628 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:17,759 Speaker 1: a couple of messages to share with you when we 629 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 1: come right back from a quick break and now back 630 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:26,000 Speaker 1: to our letters. So we have a couple of letters 631 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 1: here from our episode on fecttion affection revolution, and this 632 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:35,239 Speaker 1: first one is from Lisa. She writes, I am a 633 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,840 Speaker 1: plus size woman, size twenty four, and I'm also a 634 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,800 Speaker 1: teacher at local high school. I've always been self conscious 635 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 1: about my weight because I haven't always been plus size. 636 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,280 Speaker 1: I realized that I have a great power to influence 637 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,000 Speaker 1: how young women see themselves just by the way that 638 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,800 Speaker 1: I talk about and dress myself. Can it be hard 639 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,080 Speaker 1: to find fashionable plus size clothes? You bet you, But 640 00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,359 Speaker 1: the hunt is with it for me. And I am 641 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,080 Speaker 1: still young twenty seven, and I know that my students 642 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: are looking at me as a role model. What kind 643 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 1: of message would I send if I work clothes it 644 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 1: didn't fit properly, baggy or too tight, or if I 645 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,600 Speaker 1: hunched and was constantly trying to hide my body. I'm 646 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,000 Speaker 1: a fun, smart, likable person in my weight has nothing 647 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:16,799 Speaker 1: to do with that. I try to look my best 648 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,479 Speaker 1: every day so my students see that it doesn't matter 649 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,240 Speaker 1: what size you are if you love yourself and love others. 650 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: I want to show them a woman who is not 651 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 1: ashamed of herself in any way, a woman who knows 652 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,360 Speaker 1: it's what's inside your head and your heart that matters. 653 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,360 Speaker 1: And how do I accomplish that by my demeanor, my carriage, 654 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,840 Speaker 1: and my style. Let's stop worrying about our size and 655 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: worry more about our self worth and the messages we 656 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 1: are sending to the next generation of women. Here here, Lisa, 657 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,480 Speaker 1: good for you. Um I have a letter here from 658 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,520 Speaker 1: Danielle about our fashion episode, and I just want to 659 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,880 Speaker 1: say thank you for including the picture of your freaking 660 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 1: adorable dog. I squealed. Um. So Danielle says, I'm an 661 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,360 Speaker 1: overweight twenty three year old woman and I have struggle 662 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,720 Speaker 1: with finding cute clothes that are well made for years. 663 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 1: I am so glad that you did a podcast on 664 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,279 Speaker 1: the World of Fatchen And even though I'm a plus 665 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,840 Speaker 1: size woman, I had never heard of the fatchan movement. 666 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,200 Speaker 1: I don't know how that is even possible, but I 667 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,560 Speaker 1: loved it. Although I'm one of the women who is 668 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:16,600 Speaker 1: trying to get healthier and work out a few times 669 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:18,319 Speaker 1: a week, which is when I tend to listen to 670 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,560 Speaker 1: your podcast, I do love being able to find clothes 671 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,560 Speaker 1: that fit my body now so that I can still 672 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:27,560 Speaker 1: look and feel good while trying to maintain a healthy lifestyle. Also, 673 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,160 Speaker 1: you ask for places to find cute plus size clothing, 674 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:32,319 Speaker 1: and one site that I found that I really like 675 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,360 Speaker 1: is simply be dot com. I just got a Christmas 676 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,840 Speaker 1: dress from there and I'm eagerly awaiting. It's a rival 677 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 1: so awesome. Thank you for your letter, Daniel, and thanks 678 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,600 Speaker 1: to everybody who's written in. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot 679 00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 1: com is where you can send your letters. You can 680 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 1: follow us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, find us 681 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:51,680 Speaker 1: on Facebook and like us while you're at it. We're 682 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:53,920 Speaker 1: on Tumbler as well at stuff Mom Never Told You 683 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,280 Speaker 1: dot tumbler dot com, and also on Instagram. Oh please 684 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,200 Speaker 1: instagram us your pie pick shore as we are at 685 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,040 Speaker 1: stuff Mom Never Told You. And last, but certainly not least, 686 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,359 Speaker 1: you should head over to YouTube and check us out 687 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,480 Speaker 1: over there too. We're at YouTube dot com, slash stuff 688 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:16,880 Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You, and don't forget to subscribe for 689 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,840 Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics, How stuff 690 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:30,239 Speaker 1: works dot com. If you're a guy in need of 691 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,760 Speaker 1: some new clothes, you should add over to jack Threads 692 00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,719 Speaker 1: dot com, which has quickly become the online shopping destination 693 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,920 Speaker 1: for dudes and you want to know why. Everything on 694 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:44,880 Speaker 1: the site is up to eight off, including apparel from 695 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:49,319 Speaker 1: cool brands like Converse, Penguin and Busted Teas and right 696 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,200 Speaker 1: now for stuff Mom never told you. Listeners, you can 697 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,719 Speaker 1: skip the membership waitlist if you go to sign up 698 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,799 Speaker 1: Dot Jack threads dot com slash mom today, So don't 699 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,680 Speaker 1: for get go to sign up Dot jack threads dot 700 00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:04,560 Speaker 1: com and skip that waitlist