1 00:00:04,078 --> 00:00:07,318 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:15,558 --> 00:00:18,038 Speaker 1: Hey Aaron, Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast, 3 00:00:18,398 --> 00:00:23,038 Speaker 1: World Series Edition. This is Tom Berducci with Joe Madden 4 00:00:23,278 --> 00:00:25,558 Speaker 1: and Joe We got our sell as a series tired 5 00:00:25,598 --> 00:00:27,998 Speaker 1: after four games, down to a best out of three 6 00:00:28,078 --> 00:00:31,918 Speaker 1: with Toronto holding the home field advantage. Now, a lot 7 00:00:31,918 --> 00:00:34,358 Speaker 1: of people thought, and I'm sure you heard some of this, Joe, 8 00:00:34,678 --> 00:00:37,238 Speaker 1: Dodgers were just rolling and this was going to be 9 00:00:37,238 --> 00:00:41,438 Speaker 1: a four or five game series, selling this Toronto team short. Obviously, 10 00:00:41,518 --> 00:00:43,678 Speaker 1: what's your overall take thirty thousand feet and what we've 11 00:00:43,718 --> 00:00:45,398 Speaker 1: seen in four games, what might be ahead? 12 00:00:45,638 --> 00:00:47,278 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was one of those guys. I thought it 13 00:00:47,358 --> 00:00:49,758 Speaker 2: was Dodgers in five. That was my prediction when you 14 00:00:49,798 --> 00:00:53,758 Speaker 2: had asked earlier. What I'm seeing is I underestimated the 15 00:00:53,758 --> 00:00:57,358 Speaker 2: grit of the Blue Jays, I quite frankly did. I 16 00:00:57,478 --> 00:00:59,518 Speaker 2: got to see them during the season, and you see 17 00:00:59,558 --> 00:01:02,838 Speaker 2: them a lot against the Yankees and some others, obviously 18 00:01:02,838 --> 00:01:04,558 Speaker 2: a lot of the Al East team. So I watched 19 00:01:04,638 --> 00:01:07,278 Speaker 2: them and they came across well, but not like this. 20 00:01:07,878 --> 00:01:11,678 Speaker 2: The kid Lucas really ten year minor league this see 21 00:01:11,678 --> 00:01:14,118 Speaker 2: this guy here gets not nearly enough credit for me. 22 00:01:14,198 --> 00:01:17,118 Speaker 2: I mean the way he is at batcher that professional. 23 00:01:17,558 --> 00:01:20,198 Speaker 2: I mean, there really are, They're so good. The fact 24 00:01:20,238 --> 00:01:23,118 Speaker 2: that Vladdie really has, you know, found his voice with 25 00:01:23,198 --> 00:01:26,398 Speaker 2: his bat right now, that's outstanding. I love all of 26 00:01:26,438 --> 00:01:29,998 Speaker 2: that bar show. For everything that I thought they didn't 27 00:01:30,038 --> 00:01:31,718 Speaker 2: have in the past, they have right now. It's kind 28 00:01:31,758 --> 00:01:36,718 Speaker 2: of like this gritty, dirty blue collar representing a country 29 00:01:36,878 --> 00:01:39,798 Speaker 2: team that man, I didn't I swear to god I did. 30 00:01:39,878 --> 00:01:41,398 Speaker 2: I didn't see all that and you got to kill like, 31 00:01:41,518 --> 00:01:42,838 Speaker 2: was it Verlin? How do you say his name? 32 00:01:42,918 --> 00:01:45,998 Speaker 3: Varland, Louis and Louis everyday? Varland? 33 00:01:46,318 --> 00:01:49,918 Speaker 2: Right, they do? Eddie Wardado, I mean, all the stuff 34 00:01:49,918 --> 00:01:53,238 Speaker 2: that they're doing, and and Schneider John and the dougot 35 00:01:53,318 --> 00:01:55,878 Speaker 2: so stoic. There's times that looks like you might be 36 00:01:55,878 --> 00:01:58,958 Speaker 2: a little bit pissed, but he doesn't say anything. Donnie's 37 00:01:58,998 --> 00:02:01,398 Speaker 2: right there to calm everything down. There's a nice yinge 38 00:02:01,438 --> 00:02:03,718 Speaker 2: and Yango in there. So I was wrong. They are 39 00:02:04,318 --> 00:02:06,798 Speaker 2: more than i'd give them credit for. Part. The big 40 00:02:06,838 --> 00:02:08,678 Speaker 2: part of it is that Sharzer came through and Bieber 41 00:02:08,678 --> 00:02:11,038 Speaker 2: came through. I didn't. I didn't see that. I really 42 00:02:11,038 --> 00:02:14,318 Speaker 2: didn't honestly, you know, the first couple of guys you 43 00:02:14,318 --> 00:02:17,438 Speaker 2: could see that Savage and Gosman, but the next two 44 00:02:17,438 --> 00:02:21,958 Speaker 2: starters really shown better than I think anticipated. And then 45 00:02:21,998 --> 00:02:24,158 Speaker 2: I see even the bottom of the lineup by him, 46 00:02:24,158 --> 00:02:25,718 Speaker 2: it is I mean, my goodness. I mean, this guy 47 00:02:25,798 --> 00:02:28,278 Speaker 2: just works good at bad after good at bat. They're 48 00:02:28,318 --> 00:02:33,198 Speaker 2: so focused. So yes, they have met the Dodgers toe 49 00:02:33,238 --> 00:02:35,998 Speaker 2: to toe, and they deserve all the credit in the world. 50 00:02:36,038 --> 00:02:37,878 Speaker 2: I you know, at this point it's believable that they 51 00:02:37,918 --> 00:02:39,238 Speaker 2: could beat the Dodgers. 52 00:02:39,198 --> 00:02:40,638 Speaker 3: One hundred percent. I agree with you. 53 00:02:40,838 --> 00:02:43,198 Speaker 1: I mean, the lineup depth is something that really has 54 00:02:43,198 --> 00:02:45,118 Speaker 1: played out in the first four games. You know, coming in, 55 00:02:45,238 --> 00:02:49,118 Speaker 1: Dave Roberts, the Dodgers manager, was concerned about. 56 00:02:48,878 --> 00:02:50,078 Speaker 3: The bottom of his lineup. 57 00:02:50,678 --> 00:02:52,918 Speaker 1: You know, he called it some spots where the other 58 00:02:52,998 --> 00:02:55,518 Speaker 1: pitcher can catch the breath right where you don't get 59 00:02:55,558 --> 00:02:58,198 Speaker 1: stressed so much and you get a quick inning, and 60 00:02:58,238 --> 00:02:59,798 Speaker 1: then you can go attack the top of the lineup. 61 00:02:59,998 --> 00:03:01,678 Speaker 3: It's exactly what's playing out here, Joe. 62 00:03:01,758 --> 00:03:03,398 Speaker 1: I mean, there's just too many easy out at the 63 00:03:03,398 --> 00:03:06,438 Speaker 1: bottom of the lineup, and there's very few in the 64 00:03:06,438 --> 00:03:09,398 Speaker 1: Toronto lineup. I mean, once that lineup gets rolling. You know, 65 00:03:09,798 --> 00:03:12,998 Speaker 1: I've said it. There's showtime Lakers. They played fast break baseball. 66 00:03:13,238 --> 00:03:14,838 Speaker 1: You throw anything near the plate, they're going to put 67 00:03:14,878 --> 00:03:17,318 Speaker 1: it in play. They don't stand around and wait for something, 68 00:03:17,358 --> 00:03:19,958 Speaker 1: you know, drive up pitch counts. And you mentioned Jimenez 69 00:03:19,998 --> 00:03:21,958 Speaker 1: and Ernie Clement is such a. 70 00:03:21,998 --> 00:03:24,278 Speaker 3: Love him player. I mean, Joe. 71 00:03:24,358 --> 00:03:27,718 Speaker 1: He was released by an Oakland team two years ago 72 00:03:27,798 --> 00:03:30,438 Speaker 1: in spring training that was coming off one hundred and 73 00:03:30,478 --> 00:03:33,798 Speaker 1: twelve lost season. He goes home and he thought he 74 00:03:33,878 --> 00:03:36,198 Speaker 1: was done. He had two days. He said, it was 75 00:03:36,438 --> 00:03:38,358 Speaker 1: like the two longest days of my life. He said, 76 00:03:38,398 --> 00:03:41,398 Speaker 1: I had no idea what I would do. And the 77 00:03:41,438 --> 00:03:43,958 Speaker 1: Blue Jays picked him up. And here he is, just 78 00:03:44,158 --> 00:03:47,358 Speaker 1: one tough a bat after another. And I'll tell you this, Joe, 79 00:03:47,998 --> 00:03:49,878 Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember that eighteen in game 80 00:03:49,918 --> 00:03:52,638 Speaker 1: that Red Sox played against the Dodgers back in twenty eighteen. 81 00:03:53,478 --> 00:03:56,398 Speaker 3: You know Maximunts he ended it with walk off home run. 82 00:03:57,158 --> 00:03:59,318 Speaker 1: That was the night where Alex Chorus did in front 83 00:03:59,318 --> 00:04:01,678 Speaker 1: of his group and they all literally gave a standing 84 00:04:01,678 --> 00:04:04,158 Speaker 1: ovation and Nathan Valdi for pitching six innings out of 85 00:04:04,198 --> 00:04:06,518 Speaker 1: the bullpen and saving the bullpen. 86 00:04:06,958 --> 00:04:08,878 Speaker 3: They came back and they won the series. They won 87 00:04:08,918 --> 00:04:09,678 Speaker 3: the next day. 88 00:04:09,958 --> 00:04:13,998 Speaker 1: And something very similar happened after the Blue Jays lost 89 00:04:13,998 --> 00:04:17,758 Speaker 1: in eighteen innings in Game three, where John Schneider stood 90 00:04:17,798 --> 00:04:20,398 Speaker 1: in front of his group and he said, this is 91 00:04:20,398 --> 00:04:21,838 Speaker 1: not going to turn into two losses. 92 00:04:22,118 --> 00:04:24,958 Speaker 3: We are turning the page. That's exactly what they did. 93 00:04:25,158 --> 00:04:27,838 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not surprised because this is what they do, 94 00:04:28,278 --> 00:04:30,718 Speaker 1: and John's already established a culture there where they are 95 00:04:30,758 --> 00:04:33,798 Speaker 1: gritty and you know, a grueling loss like that, you 96 00:04:33,918 --> 00:04:36,358 Speaker 1: invest so much into a game over eighteen innings and 97 00:04:36,398 --> 00:04:38,078 Speaker 1: six and a half hours, you might be wearing it 98 00:04:38,078 --> 00:04:38,678 Speaker 1: the next day. 99 00:04:38,918 --> 00:04:40,838 Speaker 3: Plus you've got George Springer out of the lineup. 100 00:04:40,838 --> 00:04:42,838 Speaker 1: Plus you've got Otani on the mound for the Dodgers, 101 00:04:42,878 --> 00:04:45,798 Speaker 1: who's never lost at Dodger Stadium. You know, on paper, 102 00:04:45,838 --> 00:04:48,878 Speaker 1: it's like that's it for the Blue Jays and just 103 00:04:48,918 --> 00:04:52,078 Speaker 1: so comfortable Joe in places that are uncomfortable, and they 104 00:04:52,078 --> 00:04:55,038 Speaker 1: come back the next day like, you know, nothing happened 105 00:04:55,078 --> 00:04:56,918 Speaker 1: the previous night. I mean, that's a credit to me 106 00:04:57,398 --> 00:04:59,478 Speaker 1: for the vibe they have with this group. Credit to 107 00:04:59,518 --> 00:05:00,478 Speaker 1: the manager and the staff. 108 00:05:00,878 --> 00:05:04,318 Speaker 2: There's a lot there. First of all, Schneider saying something 109 00:05:04,358 --> 00:05:06,638 Speaker 2: see we've talked about I'm not a meeting guy, but 110 00:05:06,678 --> 00:05:09,278 Speaker 2: that happened with us with the Rays lost the double 111 00:05:09,358 --> 00:05:11,758 Speaker 2: hitter that year that we had the great comeback, the 112 00:05:12,078 --> 00:05:14,278 Speaker 2: greatest night and led to the greatest knight in baseball, 113 00:05:14,678 --> 00:05:16,878 Speaker 2: lost the double header Yankee Stadium in September, and I 114 00:05:16,918 --> 00:05:18,478 Speaker 2: was like, well, I got to do something here. So 115 00:05:18,518 --> 00:05:21,678 Speaker 2: I just went in there and reaffirmed, reassured, listen. Just 116 00:05:21,718 --> 00:05:23,718 Speaker 2: like John said, it's like we're turning the page and 117 00:05:23,758 --> 00:05:26,438 Speaker 2: moving it forward. We still got this et cetera, et cetera. 118 00:05:26,478 --> 00:05:28,598 Speaker 2: So I think that was a great move. Actually, guys 119 00:05:28,598 --> 00:05:31,878 Speaker 2: are fatigued, they're so bummed out. It's like it's it's 120 00:05:31,918 --> 00:05:33,958 Speaker 2: really hard, man, when you lose a hard fought game 121 00:05:34,038 --> 00:05:37,518 Speaker 2: like that that long takes you that long to lose 122 00:05:37,878 --> 00:05:40,198 Speaker 2: and all the things that have occurred. So that is 123 00:05:40,358 --> 00:05:42,958 Speaker 2: I think that is well timed. Not a speech, just 124 00:05:42,998 --> 00:05:46,038 Speaker 2: a quick phraser. Two. I love that now number two, 125 00:05:46,078 --> 00:05:47,798 Speaker 2: the National You got a National League line up right 126 00:05:47,838 --> 00:05:50,078 Speaker 2: with the Dodgers right now when you're talking about the 127 00:05:50,078 --> 00:05:51,998 Speaker 2: bottom of the batting order, and it's just like having 128 00:05:51,998 --> 00:05:54,438 Speaker 2: the pitcher and like a number eight hitter that really 129 00:05:54,718 --> 00:05:56,638 Speaker 2: didn't do a whole lot. But he was a good 130 00:05:56,678 --> 00:05:59,918 Speaker 2: defensive player. That's that's that's what they're dealing with right now. 131 00:06:00,438 --> 00:06:02,318 Speaker 2: And I could see that. I mean Paez, I mean 132 00:06:02,318 --> 00:06:04,798 Speaker 2: a nice player, a great year ago catcher, I mean 133 00:06:04,798 --> 00:06:08,278 Speaker 2: a good center fielder. But it's just not playing right now. 134 00:06:08,318 --> 00:06:09,878 Speaker 2: And I don't know that he can go away from that. 135 00:06:10,438 --> 00:06:12,238 Speaker 2: I don't know what the alternatives are, but it would 136 00:06:12,318 --> 00:06:16,518 Speaker 2: be surprised if they get together as a group talking 137 00:06:16,518 --> 00:06:19,878 Speaker 2: about the front office and possibly decide on somebody else 138 00:06:19,998 --> 00:06:23,038 Speaker 2: early in the game that might provide more offense and 139 00:06:23,078 --> 00:06:25,638 Speaker 2: then eventually bring piz in at the end of the 140 00:06:25,638 --> 00:06:28,238 Speaker 2: game for the defense. I don't think that's off the table. 141 00:06:28,278 --> 00:06:33,678 Speaker 2: We'll see. And last point, Clement, I love this guy. 142 00:06:33,758 --> 00:06:38,038 Speaker 2: He is. He's a non analytical maven. He's the he 143 00:06:38,078 --> 00:06:42,078 Speaker 2: gets released by Oakland because he doesn't check all the boxes. 144 00:06:42,118 --> 00:06:44,998 Speaker 2: The comp for me is like a David Fletcher. I 145 00:06:45,078 --> 00:06:47,758 Speaker 2: loved David Fletcher when I was with the Angels. I 146 00:06:48,198 --> 00:06:51,038 Speaker 2: couldn't get enough of him. He was just a flat winner, 147 00:06:51,478 --> 00:06:54,278 Speaker 2: just just did things to win the game, played multiple 148 00:06:54,358 --> 00:06:58,798 Speaker 2: positions extremely well, you had decent speed. He hurt his leg, 149 00:06:58,918 --> 00:07:01,078 Speaker 2: but the last year I was there. But to that point, 150 00:07:01,078 --> 00:07:03,358 Speaker 2: he could steal a base because he was smart, He 151 00:07:03,398 --> 00:07:06,318 Speaker 2: could play crap out a short stuff because he was smart, 152 00:07:07,238 --> 00:07:09,878 Speaker 2: get a big hit because he was smart, and he 153 00:07:09,958 --> 00:07:12,438 Speaker 2: was just a baseball player. So the way he fell 154 00:07:12,478 --> 00:07:16,758 Speaker 2: off a cliff really upset me because that's who Clement is. 155 00:07:16,838 --> 00:07:19,358 Speaker 2: I always thought that David would have been perfect, like 156 00:07:19,398 --> 00:07:21,998 Speaker 2: say for the Yankees as an example, a really good team, 157 00:07:22,438 --> 00:07:25,198 Speaker 2: because on a really good team they could spot him 158 00:07:25,598 --> 00:07:28,438 Speaker 2: in different spots and you could he could just be 159 00:07:29,198 --> 00:07:31,318 Speaker 2: that Swiss army knife kind of guy that could do 160 00:07:31,358 --> 00:07:33,798 Speaker 2: so many different things. That's what I see with Clement. 161 00:07:33,918 --> 00:07:36,118 Speaker 2: I really dig on this guy, and this is the 162 00:07:36,198 --> 00:07:40,958 Speaker 2: kind of guy that doesn't get enough play minor league wise. 163 00:07:40,998 --> 00:07:44,198 Speaker 2: Moving into a major league situation, he's always going to 164 00:07:44,238 --> 00:07:46,678 Speaker 2: arrive with the caveat well he can't do this and 165 00:07:46,718 --> 00:07:49,358 Speaker 2: he can't do that. Well, you know what, maybe the 166 00:07:49,438 --> 00:07:52,038 Speaker 2: power is not there, maybe you know, the analytical stuff 167 00:07:52,078 --> 00:07:54,358 Speaker 2: is not completely there, but I'll tell you what. The 168 00:07:54,358 --> 00:07:59,558 Speaker 2: heartbeat is there. The thought process is outstanding. The instinct 169 00:07:59,558 --> 00:08:03,038 Speaker 2: for the game is way way above average, which say 170 00:08:03,318 --> 00:08:06,438 Speaker 2: on a scale of twenty eighty being excellent, it's eighty. 171 00:08:06,838 --> 00:08:09,638 Speaker 2: So hopefully with his success right now, you're going to 172 00:08:09,718 --> 00:08:12,558 Speaker 2: see more opportunities for guys like this. And like I said, 173 00:08:12,598 --> 00:08:15,798 Speaker 2: it's easier to I believe, carry off in a good 174 00:08:15,798 --> 00:08:18,438 Speaker 2: team as opposed to just a SOSO team, because the 175 00:08:18,478 --> 00:08:20,478 Speaker 2: SOSO team's trying to assent it. They're always going to 176 00:08:20,518 --> 00:08:23,838 Speaker 2: go for the athlete. They're trying to get better athletically analytically, 177 00:08:24,198 --> 00:08:26,198 Speaker 2: where the really good team needs a guy to pop 178 00:08:26,238 --> 00:08:28,598 Speaker 2: in there to just complete them. And that's what he 179 00:08:28,638 --> 00:08:29,798 Speaker 2: does with the Blue Jays. 180 00:08:30,078 --> 00:08:32,998 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting, Isaiah kind of Leffa told me the 181 00:08:33,038 --> 00:08:35,558 Speaker 1: Blue Jays are trying to change baseball. He said, we 182 00:08:35,598 --> 00:08:38,038 Speaker 1: want to bring baseball back to baseball now. This is 183 00:08:38,038 --> 00:08:40,478 Speaker 1: the guy who played for the Yankees, and he said, 184 00:08:40,518 --> 00:08:42,878 Speaker 1: with the Yankees, it was all about getting the ball 185 00:08:42,918 --> 00:08:44,878 Speaker 1: in the air to the poll side. It was about 186 00:08:44,958 --> 00:08:49,878 Speaker 1: hitting home runs, and ground balls were more than just 187 00:08:50,078 --> 00:08:52,598 Speaker 1: frowned upon, very much so discouraged. 188 00:08:52,998 --> 00:08:53,398 Speaker 3: He said. 189 00:08:53,438 --> 00:08:55,998 Speaker 1: With the Blue Jays, it's not that people want to 190 00:08:56,038 --> 00:08:57,718 Speaker 1: hit the ball on the ground. But as he told me, 191 00:08:57,718 --> 00:09:00,478 Speaker 1: there are times where hitting the ball hard on the 192 00:09:00,518 --> 00:09:03,958 Speaker 1: ground to get a base hit is in play. You 193 00:09:03,998 --> 00:09:06,118 Speaker 1: don't always want to get the ball in the air, 194 00:09:06,118 --> 00:09:07,718 Speaker 1: which leads to a ton of pop ups and swing 195 00:09:07,718 --> 00:09:10,558 Speaker 1: and miss. So there's a certain freedom that Blue Jays 196 00:09:10,638 --> 00:09:12,798 Speaker 1: hitters have that if they do hit the ball on 197 00:09:12,838 --> 00:09:16,118 Speaker 1: the ground, nobody's going to show them an analytical sheet saying, 198 00:09:16,198 --> 00:09:17,598 Speaker 1: you know, your launch angle's. 199 00:09:17,238 --> 00:09:18,478 Speaker 3: Not good, you got to get the ball in the air. 200 00:09:18,758 --> 00:09:19,878 Speaker 3: So there's a certain freedom there. 201 00:09:19,878 --> 00:09:22,478 Speaker 1: They hitting coach David Popkins as this philosophy like he 202 00:09:22,598 --> 00:09:23,798 Speaker 1: wants to be like. 203 00:09:23,758 --> 00:09:25,038 Speaker 3: A boxer who can do it all. 204 00:09:25,158 --> 00:09:27,838 Speaker 1: You can jab, you can throw haymakers, fight as many 205 00:09:27,838 --> 00:09:31,998 Speaker 1: ways as you can to score runs. And as they said, 206 00:09:32,438 --> 00:09:35,238 Speaker 1: IKF said, we are trying to change baseball. It's been 207 00:09:35,238 --> 00:09:37,678 Speaker 1: a long time when somebody won the World Series playing 208 00:09:37,718 --> 00:09:41,038 Speaker 1: offense that way. The last five years all the World 209 00:09:41,078 --> 00:09:43,278 Speaker 1: champions have been in the top four in home runs. 210 00:09:44,398 --> 00:09:45,878 Speaker 1: But this is the team now has got a chance 211 00:09:45,918 --> 00:09:47,238 Speaker 1: if they win to the next three. 212 00:09:47,718 --> 00:09:50,558 Speaker 2: Talked about that exactly. It's so cool to hear all 213 00:09:50,598 --> 00:09:53,078 Speaker 2: that stuff. You know, if you wait around long enough 214 00:09:53,078 --> 00:09:55,118 Speaker 2: that bell bottom jeans are going to come back in style. 215 00:09:55,718 --> 00:09:57,318 Speaker 2: And I got a leisure suit in the other room. 216 00:09:57,358 --> 00:09:59,438 Speaker 2: I swear I do that. Hopefully I'll be able to 217 00:09:59,438 --> 00:10:01,598 Speaker 2: work down Tampa this winter. When I was a young 218 00:10:01,718 --> 00:10:06,078 Speaker 2: hitting instructor Rick Down, I mean, these are Jimmy Lefever 219 00:10:06,278 --> 00:10:08,758 Speaker 2: like really good hitting coaches that I was around. I 220 00:10:08,798 --> 00:10:12,638 Speaker 2: worked with Benny directly. I worked directly with Rick Down, 221 00:10:12,718 --> 00:10:16,238 Speaker 2: and I worked indirectly but around Jimmy lef Feber a lot. 222 00:10:16,598 --> 00:10:19,958 Speaker 2: These guys were kind of like the gurus of their days. Now. Benny, 223 00:10:20,038 --> 00:10:24,998 Speaker 2: BENNI Hines always promoted back spin. That was Benny. That's 224 00:10:25,038 --> 00:10:27,838 Speaker 2: almost like the latter day. Get the ball in the air. 225 00:10:28,038 --> 00:10:29,958 Speaker 2: That's what Ben was all about. So you took BP 226 00:10:30,558 --> 00:10:32,558 Speaker 2: and I utilized this a lot, working off a tee 227 00:10:32,598 --> 00:10:34,078 Speaker 2: and I used to have something called an air teeer. 228 00:10:34,158 --> 00:10:37,158 Speaker 2: The ball would actually float above the top of this 229 00:10:37,318 --> 00:10:39,358 Speaker 2: team because of a stream of air and then really 230 00:10:39,398 --> 00:10:41,718 Speaker 2: spun like crazy, and when you hit the ball, it 231 00:10:41,758 --> 00:10:44,878 Speaker 2: actually felt like a ball was pitched. So the whole 232 00:10:44,918 --> 00:10:46,758 Speaker 2: thing was to really almost like cut the ball and 233 00:10:46,798 --> 00:10:49,198 Speaker 2: half chop the ball and half so you're still getting 234 00:10:49,278 --> 00:10:51,758 Speaker 2: kind of like this level downward kind of swing to 235 00:10:51,878 --> 00:10:54,438 Speaker 2: the approach. However, the ball was still going to go 236 00:10:54,478 --> 00:10:56,878 Speaker 2: in the air. That was Benny. He was like the guy, 237 00:10:56,918 --> 00:10:59,558 Speaker 2: the first guy that I really heard preached that rick 238 00:10:59,638 --> 00:11:02,438 Speaker 2: down more rick was more like hard ground balls and 239 00:11:02,478 --> 00:11:05,038 Speaker 2: line drives. That was another thought of the day, Hard 240 00:11:05,118 --> 00:11:07,198 Speaker 2: ground balls and line drives. That's what we talked as 241 00:11:07,198 --> 00:11:09,558 Speaker 2: we felt fly balls are out, especially if you're a 242 00:11:09,558 --> 00:11:11,838 Speaker 2: little guy. The fly ball wasn't out, fly ball wasn't 243 00:11:11,878 --> 00:11:14,438 Speaker 2: going over the wall. Why put the ball in the air. 244 00:11:14,558 --> 00:11:16,678 Speaker 2: Put the ball on the ground, heart on a line, 245 00:11:16,678 --> 00:11:20,038 Speaker 2: hard on a line drive specifically, and then that would 246 00:11:20,038 --> 00:11:23,638 Speaker 2: be cause you to become the best hitter you possibly 247 00:11:23,678 --> 00:11:25,798 Speaker 2: can become. So when you hear all this stuff about 248 00:11:25,838 --> 00:11:29,078 Speaker 2: the fly ball, and that's what all that's because that's 249 00:11:29,078 --> 00:11:30,798 Speaker 2: what guys get paid for. Like you said, that's the 250 00:11:30,798 --> 00:11:33,678 Speaker 2: soup dejur right now. So for me, God, it would 251 00:11:33,678 --> 00:11:36,598 Speaker 2: be so wonderful if kind of Filifa Lefa keeps up 252 00:11:36,638 --> 00:11:40,438 Speaker 2: that language and the Blue Jays move forward and show 253 00:11:40,558 --> 00:11:43,238 Speaker 2: that there is more than one way to skin a 254 00:11:43,318 --> 00:11:45,878 Speaker 2: cat and win a World Series and then all because 255 00:11:45,918 --> 00:11:48,398 Speaker 2: it is it is. We are a copycat industry, there's 256 00:11:48,438 --> 00:11:51,918 Speaker 2: no question about it. And I do believe this, I 257 00:11:51,918 --> 00:11:54,998 Speaker 2: mean I wanted all. I believe it's easier to teach 258 00:11:55,038 --> 00:11:57,318 Speaker 2: that method. The method easier to teach is the hard 259 00:11:57,318 --> 00:11:59,518 Speaker 2: ground ball, line drive method, where you have a two 260 00:11:59,518 --> 00:12:02,478 Speaker 2: strike approach. You move the ball with two strikes, and 261 00:12:02,518 --> 00:12:05,198 Speaker 2: you could It's hard to increase walks if a guy's 262 00:12:05,318 --> 00:12:08,438 Speaker 2: DNA is a swing to bat Bobashett as an example, 263 00:12:08,838 --> 00:12:12,398 Speaker 2: if a guy's really a swinger of the bat, it's 264 00:12:12,398 --> 00:12:13,878 Speaker 2: hard to get him to walk more, but you can 265 00:12:13,918 --> 00:12:16,118 Speaker 2: get him to strike out less. I think by having 266 00:12:16,118 --> 00:12:19,398 Speaker 2: an approach, a metal approach, adaptations during the course of 267 00:12:19,438 --> 00:12:21,638 Speaker 2: that bad flexibility. All those are the kind of things 268 00:12:21,638 --> 00:12:23,918 Speaker 2: I used to preach. So you got me wound up 269 00:12:23,998 --> 00:12:28,518 Speaker 2: because between talking about Clement Fletcher and all this other 270 00:12:28,598 --> 00:12:31,718 Speaker 2: kind of stuff, line drive hard ground ball theory. If 271 00:12:31,758 --> 00:12:36,078 Speaker 2: they would just compensate, if somehow compensation got around to 272 00:12:36,398 --> 00:12:40,038 Speaker 2: contact somehow and playing the actual game fundamentally and that 273 00:12:40,198 --> 00:12:43,038 Speaker 2: was rewarded. I've always I've actually written stuff about this 274 00:12:43,798 --> 00:12:46,198 Speaker 2: back in the nineties, in the eighties. That would be 275 00:12:46,238 --> 00:12:47,518 Speaker 2: a wonderful place to exist. 276 00:12:48,078 --> 00:12:51,518 Speaker 1: Liberal arts, baseball do a little bit of everything, right. 277 00:12:51,958 --> 00:12:53,758 Speaker 3: I'm all in favor of it. It's fun watching this 278 00:12:53,798 --> 00:12:55,598 Speaker 3: team play offensive baseball, for sure. 279 00:12:56,158 --> 00:12:57,838 Speaker 1: Hey, Joe, we're gonna take a quick break when we 280 00:12:57,878 --> 00:13:00,118 Speaker 1: get back. We really need to talk about show. 281 00:13:00,158 --> 00:13:00,758 Speaker 3: Hey, o Tani. 282 00:13:00,798 --> 00:13:04,558 Speaker 1: He continues to amaze us, and we'll dive into that 283 00:13:04,918 --> 00:13:19,238 Speaker 1: right after this on the Book of Joe. Welcome back 284 00:13:19,238 --> 00:13:21,878 Speaker 1: to the Book of Joe. Joey Otani. Joe, I mean 285 00:13:21,958 --> 00:13:24,358 Speaker 1: he is. We saw that incredible eighteen in the game 286 00:13:24,358 --> 00:13:27,358 Speaker 1: where he gets on base nine times, four extra base hits, 287 00:13:27,358 --> 00:13:29,438 Speaker 1: two home runs, including the game tying home run. 288 00:13:29,558 --> 00:13:32,078 Speaker 3: But I actually thought we saw that. 289 00:13:31,958 --> 00:13:34,678 Speaker 1: This guy is in fact human in game number four, 290 00:13:34,718 --> 00:13:36,718 Speaker 1: I mean, now was a huge ask to come back 291 00:13:36,718 --> 00:13:39,638 Speaker 1: and start that game. I actually thought going into that 292 00:13:39,758 --> 00:13:42,438 Speaker 1: day that they might just have him as a pitcher 293 00:13:42,678 --> 00:13:45,838 Speaker 1: only in that game. Because he expended so much energy, 294 00:13:45,958 --> 00:13:48,278 Speaker 1: his body was cramping. They had to make sure he 295 00:13:48,358 --> 00:13:50,398 Speaker 1: was hydrated in the course of the game and afterwards. 296 00:13:50,678 --> 00:13:52,198 Speaker 3: And you saw him pitch really well. 297 00:13:52,278 --> 00:13:54,598 Speaker 1: I mean, he competes, there's no doubt about that. But 298 00:13:54,638 --> 00:13:57,638 Speaker 1: he did not have his really good top line fastball 299 00:13:57,678 --> 00:13:59,598 Speaker 1: in that game. And then in the seventh thing it 300 00:13:59,598 --> 00:14:01,598 Speaker 1: started with two base hits when his fastball was down 301 00:14:01,638 --> 00:14:06,998 Speaker 1: to ninety six. There was attacks for show hey, for 302 00:14:07,118 --> 00:14:09,318 Speaker 1: everything that he did. Really, it's the most exhausting base 303 00:14:09,398 --> 00:14:12,398 Speaker 1: running game in World Series history. Based nine times in 304 00:14:12,398 --> 00:14:14,478 Speaker 1: the course of six and a half hours and then 305 00:14:14,518 --> 00:14:17,998 Speaker 1: turning around seventeen hours later and having to start the game. 306 00:14:18,438 --> 00:14:21,398 Speaker 1: But again I thought he pitched well, but he didn't 307 00:14:21,438 --> 00:14:24,358 Speaker 1: have his top line fastball. What'd you see exactly? 308 00:14:24,438 --> 00:14:26,558 Speaker 2: I mean, he was pulling a lot of fists fastballs, 309 00:14:27,478 --> 00:14:29,998 Speaker 2: and I think that's just from trying to manufacture something 310 00:14:29,998 --> 00:14:34,478 Speaker 2: that you don't necessarily feel. Joe Coleman, really great pitching coach, 311 00:14:34,958 --> 00:14:37,958 Speaker 2: always insisted with the pitchers that if you're not feeling something, 312 00:14:37,998 --> 00:14:40,278 Speaker 2: don't try to manufacture it. Just stay, you know, within 313 00:14:40,318 --> 00:14:43,038 Speaker 2: your confine, smooth it out, and try to locate the 314 00:14:43,078 --> 00:14:45,838 Speaker 2: ball better. Just from that less stressful way of throwing, 315 00:14:46,518 --> 00:14:48,198 Speaker 2: you're gonna find what you're looking for. But the moment 316 00:14:48,238 --> 00:14:51,718 Speaker 2: you start trying to manufacture something, mechanics break down, and 317 00:14:51,758 --> 00:14:55,118 Speaker 2: with that happens the location. So that's he did. He 318 00:14:55,238 --> 00:14:58,318 Speaker 2: just competed, and I thought I was actually surprised he 319 00:14:58,358 --> 00:15:00,078 Speaker 2: went out in the seventh. I know everything was kind 320 00:15:00,118 --> 00:15:03,078 Speaker 2: of okay right there, but I thought, even before the game, 321 00:15:03,118 --> 00:15:05,638 Speaker 2: I said, my god, if he gets six, god bless 322 00:15:05,678 --> 00:15:07,998 Speaker 2: him six innings and and and it was like what 323 00:15:08,038 --> 00:15:10,198 Speaker 2: two to one at that point, Yeah, that would have 324 00:15:10,198 --> 00:15:13,158 Speaker 2: been beautiful. I was really That's the part that surprised 325 00:15:13,198 --> 00:15:18,358 Speaker 2: me a little bit. But to his you're right is 326 00:15:18,358 --> 00:15:20,278 Speaker 2: that bats were going to be less than I felt 327 00:15:20,318 --> 00:15:22,438 Speaker 2: the same way. But you still got a plan if 328 00:15:22,438 --> 00:15:24,118 Speaker 2: he if he can go and he's what else is 329 00:15:24,158 --> 00:15:26,038 Speaker 2: he gonna do there? I mean, they're they're struggling for 330 00:15:26,118 --> 00:15:27,718 Speaker 2: offense the way it is, so he's gonna have to 331 00:15:27,798 --> 00:15:30,158 Speaker 2: do that anyhow. They might just walk him just because 332 00:15:30,198 --> 00:15:32,158 Speaker 2: and then then you got another base runner. But I 333 00:15:32,158 --> 00:15:35,798 Speaker 2: thought six was plenty for him. It still indicates how 334 00:15:35,838 --> 00:15:38,598 Speaker 2: different he is and how great he is by even 335 00:15:38,638 --> 00:15:42,078 Speaker 2: going six plus and and keeping the Dodgers in the end, 336 00:15:42,078 --> 00:15:45,318 Speaker 2: there were just both sides were tired. It was obvious. 337 00:15:45,358 --> 00:15:47,398 Speaker 2: I thought that the Dodgers appeared to be more tired 338 00:15:47,438 --> 00:15:49,838 Speaker 2: than the Blue Jays did. But yeah, I mean, show, hey, 339 00:15:50,158 --> 00:15:52,638 Speaker 2: that's incredible, And so I thought six would have been 340 00:15:52,678 --> 00:15:54,398 Speaker 2: good enough, and I think everybody would have been happy 341 00:15:54,438 --> 00:15:54,918 Speaker 2: at that point. 342 00:15:55,118 --> 00:15:57,998 Speaker 1: The Dodgers looked flat. Now, Shane Beeber did a really 343 00:15:58,198 --> 00:16:01,518 Speaker 1: good job. I mean he threw only twenty seven percent fastballs. 344 00:16:01,638 --> 00:16:04,478 Speaker 1: I mean his secondary stuff was you know, in and out, 345 00:16:04,558 --> 00:16:07,078 Speaker 1: up and down, back and forth. You know, it was 346 00:16:07,238 --> 00:16:10,558 Speaker 1: a great job. Of making pitches. But yeah, I mean 347 00:16:10,638 --> 00:16:13,398 Speaker 1: Will Smith catches all eighteen innings. I mean he did 348 00:16:13,518 --> 00:16:15,358 Speaker 1: not have good at bats. I mean there's a cost 349 00:16:15,438 --> 00:16:17,598 Speaker 1: for this coming back so quickly after a game like that. 350 00:16:17,998 --> 00:16:19,718 Speaker 1: And you know, I agree with you on Show Hayes 351 00:16:19,758 --> 00:16:21,638 Speaker 1: at bats they weren't necessarily great. You know, when you 352 00:16:21,758 --> 00:16:24,278 Speaker 1: watch where I Am down field level Joe and you 353 00:16:24,358 --> 00:16:27,038 Speaker 1: watch show Hey, you're even more amazed because this is 354 00:16:27,078 --> 00:16:29,078 Speaker 1: a starting pitcher in the World Series game, pitches the 355 00:16:29,118 --> 00:16:30,718 Speaker 1: top of the first inning and he's leading off the 356 00:16:30,758 --> 00:16:33,038 Speaker 1: bottom of the first inning, so he didn't have time 357 00:16:33,198 --> 00:16:35,838 Speaker 1: to go down into the dugout and relax, take a drink. 358 00:16:36,118 --> 00:16:37,798 Speaker 1: They have to bring all his gear out. He's got 359 00:16:37,798 --> 00:16:39,598 Speaker 1: all the protective gear for the arm, the elbow, the 360 00:16:39,678 --> 00:16:40,478 Speaker 1: foot and whatnot. 361 00:16:40,758 --> 00:16:42,838 Speaker 3: You know, the first at bat, he didn't even take 362 00:16:42,878 --> 00:16:43,678 Speaker 3: a practice swing. 363 00:16:43,838 --> 00:16:46,158 Speaker 1: I mean, it takes a while for him to get 364 00:16:46,198 --> 00:16:48,518 Speaker 1: off the mound, be checked by the umpires, get. 365 00:16:48,398 --> 00:16:49,078 Speaker 2: All his gear on. 366 00:16:49,558 --> 00:16:51,518 Speaker 1: He went up to the plate without taking a practice swing. 367 00:16:51,918 --> 00:16:53,718 Speaker 1: In between innings when he's going out to the mound. 368 00:16:53,798 --> 00:16:55,318 Speaker 1: He made sure he stayed in the clubhouse for a 369 00:16:55,518 --> 00:16:58,038 Speaker 1: very long time, came out late. You know, he's only 370 00:16:58,118 --> 00:17:00,598 Speaker 1: throwing like four or five warm up pitches. I thought 371 00:17:00,678 --> 00:17:04,118 Speaker 1: this game especially, it was a conservation of energy to 372 00:17:04,158 --> 00:17:06,398 Speaker 1: get through this game. But people have to realize how 373 00:17:06,598 --> 00:17:09,198 Speaker 1: difficult it is from a physical point of view. And 374 00:17:09,238 --> 00:17:11,438 Speaker 1: I've talked to some Dodger people about this. You know, 375 00:17:11,878 --> 00:17:15,358 Speaker 1: it's almost it's almost incredible that the physical toll of 376 00:17:15,438 --> 00:17:18,558 Speaker 1: what he does now as a full two way player, 377 00:17:18,998 --> 00:17:21,398 Speaker 1: it's taxing on the body. I don't know how long 378 00:17:21,478 --> 00:17:24,278 Speaker 1: you can keep this up. Obviously, he's one of a kind. 379 00:17:24,678 --> 00:17:27,558 Speaker 1: I never doubt him. His mind strength, mind over matter 380 00:17:27,718 --> 00:17:28,598 Speaker 1: is just remarkable. 381 00:17:28,878 --> 00:17:29,038 Speaker 2: You know. 382 00:17:29,118 --> 00:17:31,758 Speaker 1: Dave Roberts was comparing him to like an ultra marathon 383 00:17:31,878 --> 00:17:33,118 Speaker 1: runner or a Navy seal. 384 00:17:33,438 --> 00:17:35,638 Speaker 3: You know, he just will not be denied. He's just 385 00:17:35,678 --> 00:17:38,518 Speaker 3: a cut above others. But I'm telling you, Joe that 386 00:17:39,118 --> 00:17:41,318 Speaker 3: the physical toll of it, you can see it in 387 00:17:41,358 --> 00:17:42,038 Speaker 3: the course of a game. 388 00:17:42,318 --> 00:17:44,398 Speaker 2: And it's pretty warm there last night too, was actually 389 00:17:44,398 --> 00:17:46,318 Speaker 2: sweating pretty good to look like. See. That's for me. 390 00:17:46,518 --> 00:17:49,198 Speaker 2: That's why I debated with that with him when we 391 00:17:49,318 --> 00:17:52,078 Speaker 2: were playing at home, to hit him second and not first. 392 00:17:52,118 --> 00:17:54,278 Speaker 2: For the reason you're talking about when you're on the road, 393 00:17:54,398 --> 00:17:55,998 Speaker 2: not so much of a deal. I did the same thing. 394 00:17:56,038 --> 00:17:58,918 Speaker 2: I think with Wilson Contreras as a catcher, whenever hitting 395 00:17:58,958 --> 00:18:01,518 Speaker 2: a catcher lead off, the same thing after if you're 396 00:18:01,518 --> 00:18:03,558 Speaker 2: at home first stating z Olver, he comes running in, 397 00:18:03,598 --> 00:18:05,758 Speaker 2: it's got to change up, get his gear off, get 398 00:18:05,958 --> 00:18:07,918 Speaker 2: the get his bat, and get ready for that first 399 00:18:07,998 --> 00:18:10,358 Speaker 2: at bats. It was also a home road split with 400 00:18:10,518 --> 00:18:13,718 Speaker 2: my thinking with that. I can't remember specifically how often 401 00:18:13,758 --> 00:18:15,158 Speaker 2: I did that, but I know that was part of 402 00:18:15,238 --> 00:18:20,758 Speaker 2: my thought process to hit him second for those reasons, because. 403 00:18:20,478 --> 00:18:23,238 Speaker 1: When he was JOSEL two wanted to stop hitting leadoff 404 00:18:23,278 --> 00:18:24,478 Speaker 1: once he moved to the outfield. 405 00:18:24,758 --> 00:18:25,638 Speaker 3: For that very reason. 406 00:18:25,718 --> 00:18:27,198 Speaker 1: You know you're running in from left field, you got 407 00:18:27,278 --> 00:18:29,278 Speaker 1: it yourself. Hurry up and get ready for the first 408 00:18:29,318 --> 00:18:30,758 Speaker 1: a B. He's like, put me second. 409 00:18:30,918 --> 00:18:31,878 Speaker 3: I hit a little bit of time. 410 00:18:31,998 --> 00:18:34,278 Speaker 2: Well, that's the when we first when show Hay started 411 00:18:34,318 --> 00:18:36,798 Speaker 2: to pitch and hit simultaneously, even when we did it 412 00:18:36,918 --> 00:18:39,838 Speaker 2: within National League rules, I hit him second specifically for 413 00:18:39,958 --> 00:18:42,918 Speaker 2: all those reasons. Even though I like to listen, I 414 00:18:42,998 --> 00:18:45,078 Speaker 2: like him hitting lead off. There's I'm not arguing that point, 415 00:18:45,198 --> 00:18:48,238 Speaker 2: but just for his own edification and his abilities just 416 00:18:48,318 --> 00:18:50,398 Speaker 2: to slow things down a bit. It wouldn't be a 417 00:18:50,438 --> 00:18:53,518 Speaker 2: bad idea. Like, for instance, I hit Betts first, Show second. 418 00:18:53,558 --> 00:18:56,198 Speaker 2: You could even pop somebody else starting it pretty fourth. 419 00:18:56,278 --> 00:18:59,478 Speaker 2: But although Freddie don't care, so I would. That's the thing. 420 00:18:59,518 --> 00:19:02,518 Speaker 2: Everybody's afraid to stack lefties. It's okay to stack rightings, 421 00:19:02,558 --> 00:19:05,038 Speaker 2: but you can't stack lefties. However, if you're lefty, can 422 00:19:05,118 --> 00:19:07,678 Speaker 2: hit lefties, it doesn't matter. It's like Kyle Tucker can 423 00:19:07,758 --> 00:19:10,518 Speaker 2: hit a lefty, it doesn't matter. More recently, Schwerbrick can 424 00:19:10,598 --> 00:19:12,398 Speaker 2: hit a lefty, it doesn't matter. I mean, so I 425 00:19:12,478 --> 00:19:14,998 Speaker 2: think sometimes that's overplayed it. You got to understand what 426 00:19:15,078 --> 00:19:17,438 Speaker 2: you got going on. But I always felt to protect 427 00:19:18,118 --> 00:19:21,438 Speaker 2: Showhay somehow, batting second, especially when he's pitching at home, 428 00:19:21,558 --> 00:19:22,438 Speaker 2: is not a bad way to go. 429 00:19:22,958 --> 00:19:24,478 Speaker 3: I want to get your take on this, Joe. 430 00:19:24,558 --> 00:19:26,598 Speaker 1: You know, running an eighteen inning game like that, it 431 00:19:26,638 --> 00:19:30,758 Speaker 1: becomes a manager's game. And I thought the experienced difference 432 00:19:30,798 --> 00:19:33,318 Speaker 1: between Dave Roberts and John Schneider showed up in that game. 433 00:19:33,598 --> 00:19:35,958 Speaker 1: You know, John went through a lot of his players 434 00:19:36,238 --> 00:19:38,838 Speaker 1: early in that game. I mean partly, you know, not 435 00:19:38,958 --> 00:19:41,198 Speaker 1: his fault. Bobi Schet was limited. They can't run him 436 00:19:41,198 --> 00:19:43,598 Speaker 1: out there to play a full nine innings at this point, 437 00:19:43,638 --> 00:19:46,638 Speaker 1: playing defense and offense. He came out of the game. 438 00:19:46,678 --> 00:19:48,558 Speaker 1: Of course, George Springer got hurt. He came out of 439 00:19:48,598 --> 00:19:50,798 Speaker 1: the game. But at that point your bench is already short. 440 00:19:50,958 --> 00:19:53,398 Speaker 1: And there was a point where he pinched ran Miles 441 00:19:53,518 --> 00:19:58,038 Speaker 1: Straw for Addison Barger. This is like a minuscule difference 442 00:19:58,398 --> 00:20:00,918 Speaker 1: in foot speed between the two of them. Adison Barger 443 00:20:01,038 --> 00:20:02,998 Speaker 1: is one of his better hitters, Miles Straw is not. 444 00:20:03,478 --> 00:20:05,758 Speaker 1: That was a big downgrade. There was no not a 445 00:20:05,798 --> 00:20:08,798 Speaker 1: big upgrade offensively, and I thought Dave Roberts did a 446 00:20:08,838 --> 00:20:11,518 Speaker 1: better job just kind of waiting for the game to 447 00:20:11,598 --> 00:20:14,518 Speaker 1: play out and kind of saving his gunpower. Reminds me 448 00:20:14,558 --> 00:20:16,958 Speaker 1: of Joe Tory running the nineteen ninety six World Series. 449 00:20:17,198 --> 00:20:19,238 Speaker 1: Times he could have popped Weaight Boggs into that game, 450 00:20:19,278 --> 00:20:20,838 Speaker 1: and he had him at the end against Steve Avery 451 00:20:20,918 --> 00:20:23,718 Speaker 1: bases loaded draws, a walk wins the game. The experience 452 00:20:23,758 --> 00:20:26,238 Speaker 1: of running these big games, and I asked John about 453 00:20:26,278 --> 00:20:29,358 Speaker 1: it and he said, this is what we've done all year, 454 00:20:29,398 --> 00:20:30,478 Speaker 1: which is an answer I hate. 455 00:20:30,518 --> 00:20:32,318 Speaker 3: By the way, because he's done it all. 456 00:20:32,318 --> 00:20:34,438 Speaker 1: Year doesn't mean you have to do it in the postseason, 457 00:20:34,478 --> 00:20:36,918 Speaker 1: these games are played very differently. But he said, if 458 00:20:36,918 --> 00:20:38,638 Speaker 1: we have an incremental edge, we're going to go for it. 459 00:20:38,638 --> 00:20:40,198 Speaker 1: And that's the way we did it all year. I'm 460 00:20:40,198 --> 00:20:42,078 Speaker 1: not taking up Edison Barger out of the lineup when 461 00:20:42,118 --> 00:20:44,198 Speaker 1: my bench is already short. In that game, the game 462 00:20:44,318 --> 00:20:46,798 Speaker 1: kept coming around till all of his bench players who 463 00:20:46,838 --> 00:20:48,638 Speaker 1: were in the game. He took out his catcher, he 464 00:20:48,718 --> 00:20:51,518 Speaker 1: took out his dh you know, he took out as 465 00:20:51,558 --> 00:20:54,518 Speaker 1: I mentioned, Barger, and the bench guys basically didn't do. 466 00:20:54,558 --> 00:20:56,638 Speaker 3: Anything as the game kept coming around to there at bats. 467 00:20:56,718 --> 00:20:59,398 Speaker 1: So give me your thought when you're running these kind 468 00:20:59,438 --> 00:21:02,758 Speaker 1: of games and you know, using bench players. I know 469 00:21:02,838 --> 00:21:05,158 Speaker 1: you're not playing for eighteen the things that's a rarity. 470 00:21:05,638 --> 00:21:07,518 Speaker 1: But without the run around second base, you do have 471 00:21:07,598 --> 00:21:08,758 Speaker 1: to protect for some length. 472 00:21:08,998 --> 00:21:11,798 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the old way of the old rules, 473 00:21:11,798 --> 00:21:13,398 Speaker 2: when there was no run around second base, even in 474 00:21:13,478 --> 00:21:16,198 Speaker 2: a regular season, that was always a concern. You'd always 475 00:21:16,438 --> 00:21:17,838 Speaker 2: in your back of your mind. You could see it 476 00:21:17,878 --> 00:21:20,118 Speaker 2: all setting up. And it really comes down to pitching. Also, 477 00:21:21,118 --> 00:21:22,798 Speaker 2: who are you holding back? Who's you going to save? 478 00:21:22,838 --> 00:21:25,158 Speaker 2: Although you can't really save anybody in a playoff game, 479 00:21:25,638 --> 00:21:28,078 Speaker 2: But yourself. Have to be mindful that it can run 480 00:21:28,158 --> 00:21:30,198 Speaker 2: into this, and that's when you start having conversations with 481 00:21:30,278 --> 00:21:32,478 Speaker 2: starting pitchers. During the course of the game. You go 482 00:21:32,598 --> 00:21:34,158 Speaker 2: up to your pitchy coach and say, listen, if this 483 00:21:34,238 --> 00:21:36,478 Speaker 2: gets at this point, talk to Lackey or Acre or 484 00:21:36,558 --> 00:21:39,118 Speaker 2: whatever and say this is a possibility. So you start 485 00:21:39,198 --> 00:21:42,558 Speaker 2: putting it in their heads. I'll say this thought about this. 486 00:21:42,678 --> 00:21:44,438 Speaker 2: I was asked the question a couple of days ago 487 00:21:44,558 --> 00:21:49,078 Speaker 2: or yesterday. More runs for Schwerbert right in the extra 488 00:21:49,198 --> 00:21:52,958 Speaker 2: first extra inning in the Indian game, So flagball Olmore 489 00:21:53,038 --> 00:21:54,878 Speaker 2: is able to tag up in advance where Shorbwood may 490 00:21:54,958 --> 00:21:57,478 Speaker 2: not have, and that eventually leads to Cubs going ahead 491 00:21:57,518 --> 00:21:59,638 Speaker 2: comes winning the game. So you're taking out on a 492 00:21:59,718 --> 00:22:01,598 Speaker 2: significant bat in Shorbert, who was really hot at that 493 00:22:01,718 --> 00:22:04,518 Speaker 2: time for Albert. But that was our take. But on 494 00:22:04,638 --> 00:22:06,318 Speaker 2: top of that, though, Schwarves did have a bad leg 495 00:22:06,438 --> 00:22:08,398 Speaker 2: and so that all made sense. But then on the 496 00:22:08,478 --> 00:22:10,998 Speaker 2: other hand, the Indians make the last out of the 497 00:22:11,078 --> 00:22:15,158 Speaker 2: game because Martinez is hitting, because they took Coco Crisp 498 00:22:15,238 --> 00:22:17,478 Speaker 2: out because there was a thread of us scoring earlier 499 00:22:18,158 --> 00:22:20,478 Speaker 2: and Crisp's arm was so bad, so they bring in 500 00:22:20,518 --> 00:22:22,558 Speaker 2: the guy that could throw better. And then, of course, 501 00:22:22,718 --> 00:22:25,278 Speaker 2: the last out of the twenty sixteen World Series game 502 00:22:25,278 --> 00:22:27,758 Speaker 2: in the game seven, Montgomery versus Martinez, who cannot hit 503 00:22:27,758 --> 00:22:30,238 Speaker 2: a left tended curveball, really worked in our advantage, where 504 00:22:30,238 --> 00:22:32,278 Speaker 2: as you'd much rather see that than Coco Crisp, but 505 00:22:32,358 --> 00:22:34,878 Speaker 2: the player who had been replaced because of defensive purposes, 506 00:22:35,318 --> 00:22:37,638 Speaker 2: because we had runner and scoring position and could have scored, 507 00:22:37,678 --> 00:22:39,358 Speaker 2: so they put the better arm out there. There's so 508 00:22:39,478 --> 00:22:41,358 Speaker 2: many things you have to think about during the course 509 00:22:41,398 --> 00:22:43,918 Speaker 2: of the game. I'll say this, the thing that started 510 00:22:43,998 --> 00:22:47,078 Speaker 2: for me was like Bushett as a second basement. If 511 00:22:47,158 --> 00:22:49,398 Speaker 2: in fact, you know he's gonna you're gonna take him 512 00:22:49,438 --> 00:22:51,438 Speaker 2: out in the latter part of the game, I'd be 513 00:22:51,598 --> 00:22:54,198 Speaker 2: very reticent hitting him behind a goodrero And I know 514 00:22:54,278 --> 00:22:56,398 Speaker 2: you got a big hit on the bar ball down 515 00:22:56,438 --> 00:22:58,198 Speaker 2: a ryfield line. But if you know you're gonna replace 516 00:22:58,318 --> 00:23:01,518 Speaker 2: him later, that leaves Lad naked. Just it just does 517 00:23:01,598 --> 00:23:04,398 Speaker 2: so that that'd be one thing, even though worked out 518 00:23:04,838 --> 00:23:09,078 Speaker 2: accordingly that way, game in progress, I don't want whomever's 519 00:23:09,118 --> 00:23:11,878 Speaker 2: coming off the bench unless I felt good about this replacement, 520 00:23:12,078 --> 00:23:14,438 Speaker 2: hit it behind last. I would have definitely put somebody else, 521 00:23:14,478 --> 00:23:16,958 Speaker 2: a lefty before that, maybe with Barger, or it could 522 00:23:16,958 --> 00:23:20,478 Speaker 2: have been Varshow something like that behind Vladimir in that situation. 523 00:23:20,678 --> 00:23:23,358 Speaker 2: So these are all the considerations. So I'm just I guess, 524 00:23:23,358 --> 00:23:24,998 Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm answering the question or not. 525 00:23:25,198 --> 00:23:27,518 Speaker 2: But you do try to hold back an opportunity to 526 00:23:27,598 --> 00:23:29,838 Speaker 2: win the game. You want to kill yourself if you 527 00:23:29,838 --> 00:23:31,838 Speaker 2: don't run for Kirk. Now here's the thing about Kirk. 528 00:23:32,038 --> 00:23:35,198 Speaker 2: If he's on first base only I probably would not 529 00:23:35,358 --> 00:23:37,278 Speaker 2: have run for him right there in that situation. 530 00:23:37,798 --> 00:23:40,358 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it is he's he was bunting Miles Straw 531 00:23:40,518 --> 00:23:43,358 Speaker 1: and there's no way you can bunt Kirk to second base. 532 00:23:43,398 --> 00:23:44,438 Speaker 3: He's going to get thrown out. 533 00:23:44,398 --> 00:23:46,198 Speaker 2: Of course. I mean, then you don't do that. My 534 00:23:46,278 --> 00:23:48,638 Speaker 2: point is you would then you would then if Kirk 535 00:23:48,758 --> 00:23:51,238 Speaker 2: arrives at second base, then you would do it. 536 00:23:52,038 --> 00:23:55,438 Speaker 3: I say, you would not bunt with Miles Straw with 537 00:23:55,558 --> 00:23:56,438 Speaker 3: Kirk at first base. 538 00:23:56,838 --> 00:23:58,718 Speaker 2: It'd be tough. I mean, that's like Jame Molina. I 539 00:23:58,798 --> 00:24:00,598 Speaker 2: mean I would not bunt. I wouldn't try to bunch 540 00:24:00,678 --> 00:24:01,918 Speaker 2: Jame Molina to second base. 541 00:24:02,358 --> 00:24:05,158 Speaker 3: But if you do decide you have to pinch, run 542 00:24:05,238 --> 00:24:05,518 Speaker 3: for him. 543 00:24:05,718 --> 00:24:08,278 Speaker 2: Correct, Yes, correct, you do. That's right, one hundred percent. 544 00:24:08,438 --> 00:24:10,558 Speaker 2: That goes hand in hand. You would have had to 545 00:24:10,598 --> 00:24:12,678 Speaker 2: have done that. My point is, he who was Straw 546 00:24:12,758 --> 00:24:14,798 Speaker 2: hitting for you already in the game, is already in 547 00:24:14,798 --> 00:24:15,198 Speaker 2: the game. 548 00:24:15,118 --> 00:24:17,438 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, he's the one who came in for Barger. 549 00:24:17,638 --> 00:24:20,478 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a that's a different kettle of fish, 550 00:24:20,478 --> 00:24:23,238 Speaker 2: as they say up in Canada. Right. So that's the point. 551 00:24:23,318 --> 00:24:27,318 Speaker 2: All these the world changes on all these particular decisions 552 00:24:27,358 --> 00:24:30,238 Speaker 2: that are being made, and so then you have to react. Yes, 553 00:24:30,398 --> 00:24:32,438 Speaker 2: you cannot b Jamo over the second, you would even 554 00:24:32,518 --> 00:24:34,838 Speaker 2: try Kirk, You're not gonna bun him over the second. 555 00:24:34,958 --> 00:24:36,718 Speaker 2: Can't even try so Dust if you're gonna want to 556 00:24:36,758 --> 00:24:38,758 Speaker 2: butt him. The other option would be, like I said, 557 00:24:38,878 --> 00:24:41,078 Speaker 2: just let Straw hit. I mean, that's your option. And 558 00:24:41,238 --> 00:24:43,398 Speaker 2: if Kirk does happen to be at second base with 559 00:24:43,558 --> 00:24:45,558 Speaker 2: like even one out, then I would run for him 560 00:24:45,598 --> 00:24:47,838 Speaker 2: for sure. So I would never know what I would done. 561 00:24:47,838 --> 00:24:50,038 Speaker 2: I could only could create conjecture you've never known to 562 00:24:50,118 --> 00:24:52,318 Speaker 2: you actually are in that situation, But those are the 563 00:24:52,358 --> 00:24:54,638 Speaker 2: thoughts that would I would have been conjuring at that 564 00:24:54,718 --> 00:24:55,518 Speaker 2: particular moment. 565 00:24:55,638 --> 00:24:57,758 Speaker 1: Hey, Joe, we're gonna take another quick break here when 566 00:24:57,798 --> 00:24:59,518 Speaker 1: we get back. I want to get your take on 567 00:24:59,678 --> 00:25:02,758 Speaker 1: Vladimir Guerrero Junior. I mean, we knew he was a 568 00:25:02,798 --> 00:25:05,358 Speaker 1: great hitter, but I think folks are finding out watching 569 00:25:05,438 --> 00:25:08,198 Speaker 1: him play here throughout this month of October. He is 570 00:25:08,438 --> 00:25:10,678 Speaker 1: on a special level and I want to get your 571 00:25:10,758 --> 00:25:13,118 Speaker 1: take on what he does. So well, we'll do that 572 00:25:13,238 --> 00:25:13,758 Speaker 1: right after this. 573 00:25:25,398 --> 00:25:27,598 Speaker 3: Welcome Back to the Book of Joe podcast. Joe. 574 00:25:27,638 --> 00:25:30,998 Speaker 1: I mentioned Black Guerrero Junior, and what a series, what 575 00:25:31,078 --> 00:25:33,318 Speaker 1: a postseason is having watching this guy on both sides 576 00:25:33,358 --> 00:25:33,878 Speaker 1: of the baseball. 577 00:25:33,998 --> 00:25:35,918 Speaker 3: He's got tremendous court awareness. 578 00:25:37,438 --> 00:25:37,598 Speaker 2: You know. 579 00:25:37,758 --> 00:25:40,438 Speaker 1: At one point he alerted Max Scherzer he was tipping 580 00:25:40,478 --> 00:25:43,278 Speaker 1: his pitches. There was a play, whereas in Barger, the 581 00:25:43,438 --> 00:25:46,318 Speaker 1: right fielder with just a candidate for an arm could 582 00:25:46,358 --> 00:25:48,118 Speaker 1: have tried to throw the runner ound at home when 583 00:25:48,158 --> 00:25:49,878 Speaker 1: he really didn't have a play and it was Glad 584 00:25:49,998 --> 00:25:51,598 Speaker 1: who motion throw to third base. 585 00:25:51,758 --> 00:25:53,758 Speaker 3: They throw the runner out at third base. It was 586 00:25:53,798 --> 00:25:54,358 Speaker 3: a great play. 587 00:25:54,838 --> 00:25:56,998 Speaker 1: And when what he does with his swing, I mean, 588 00:25:57,038 --> 00:25:59,038 Speaker 1: I've seen him take cutters off the plate when he's 589 00:25:59,078 --> 00:26:00,678 Speaker 1: sitting on the pitch and just drill it up to 590 00:26:00,758 --> 00:26:02,838 Speaker 1: center field. You saw him to take a change up 591 00:26:02,958 --> 00:26:05,038 Speaker 1: from Blake's now, which is a pretty good pitch, and 592 00:26:05,158 --> 00:26:06,918 Speaker 1: just pull that in the hole. And of course he 593 00:26:06,958 --> 00:26:09,398 Speaker 1: got a hanging sweeper from shoey Otani and hit it 594 00:26:09,398 --> 00:26:11,158 Speaker 1: out of the park. If you talk about Swiss Army 595 00:26:11,198 --> 00:26:12,918 Speaker 1: Knights with power and the ability to put the ball 596 00:26:12,918 --> 00:26:15,198 Speaker 1: in play, I gotta put this guy. And this is 597 00:26:15,278 --> 00:26:17,598 Speaker 1: high praise on a level with guys like Albert poo Holson, 598 00:26:17,638 --> 00:26:20,758 Speaker 1: Miguel Cabrera just as an all around great hitter who 599 00:26:20,838 --> 00:26:21,598 Speaker 1: also has power. 600 00:26:22,038 --> 00:26:24,398 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like he had a father that was 601 00:26:24,438 --> 00:26:27,038 Speaker 2: really good baseball. A lot of stuff, but he's doing 602 00:26:27,238 --> 00:26:29,278 Speaker 2: and this is what I love, and this is this 603 00:26:29,438 --> 00:26:31,358 Speaker 2: is this is what we're talking about with the Blue 604 00:26:31,438 --> 00:26:34,718 Speaker 2: Jays right now. He's playing the game. He's playing the game. Hey, 605 00:26:34,838 --> 00:26:37,958 Speaker 2: he sees the game. He understands the game. He's not 606 00:26:38,078 --> 00:26:40,198 Speaker 2: a robot out there. He doesn't have he doesn't need 607 00:26:40,318 --> 00:26:42,198 Speaker 2: something in his back pocket, tone, no where to stand, 608 00:26:42,518 --> 00:26:45,878 Speaker 2: he doesn't need to be alerted to situations. He's in 609 00:26:45,998 --> 00:26:49,118 Speaker 2: advance of the situation. He has been taught. Well. I 610 00:26:49,278 --> 00:26:51,678 Speaker 2: just saw a video with Tony. 611 00:26:51,478 --> 00:26:54,878 Speaker 3: Battel right with the manager of the Giants yeah, and. 612 00:26:55,198 --> 00:26:58,878 Speaker 2: He was lamenting to I think it was Greg Olsen's podcast, 613 00:26:59,158 --> 00:27:02,558 Speaker 2: how fundamentals are not being taught, and he got tired 614 00:27:02,598 --> 00:27:04,918 Speaker 2: of that with young is. I don't know if it's 615 00:27:04,918 --> 00:27:09,198 Speaker 2: coming to camps or whatever, but a noticeable disconnect between 616 00:27:09,798 --> 00:27:12,238 Speaker 2: baseball as it should be taught and how these kids 617 00:27:12,278 --> 00:27:15,878 Speaker 2: are more concerned again about being best in show, exit, velocities, 618 00:27:16,158 --> 00:27:18,758 Speaker 2: walk up music. I mean, I'm becoming a fan of 619 00:27:18,838 --> 00:27:20,998 Speaker 2: this fella already just by listening to him a little bit. 620 00:27:21,278 --> 00:27:24,238 Speaker 2: So that's it. That's what's being taught. But these young 621 00:27:24,278 --> 00:27:26,838 Speaker 2: guys are coming up. They're not liberal arts. They are 622 00:27:27,278 --> 00:27:31,158 Speaker 2: specializing or specialists. They're English majors and only take English 623 00:27:31,198 --> 00:27:34,158 Speaker 2: courses or math and only take math whatever. They don't 624 00:27:34,198 --> 00:27:36,598 Speaker 2: have a broad base. They don't read anybody, they don't 625 00:27:36,598 --> 00:27:41,278 Speaker 2: philosophize about anybody. They just do one thing, and that's try. 626 00:27:41,438 --> 00:27:42,758 Speaker 2: Like you said, lift the bon in the airs, right, 627 00:27:42,758 --> 00:27:45,958 Speaker 2: I said, okay, if I grab a walk, that's wonderful defense. 628 00:27:45,998 --> 00:27:48,958 Speaker 2: I run through some drills, I throw the ball over there, 629 00:27:49,398 --> 00:27:51,638 Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. But there's no real feel. And 630 00:27:51,718 --> 00:27:54,398 Speaker 2: that's why it's so refreshing to see this and of 631 00:27:54,478 --> 00:27:57,438 Speaker 2: course he has an advantage. He's Latino. Man. These guys, 632 00:27:57,598 --> 00:28:00,318 Speaker 2: that's they've grown up. Brother. They do that. I've always 633 00:28:00,918 --> 00:28:03,158 Speaker 2: talked to you about the Puerto Rican baseball player, which 634 00:28:03,198 --> 00:28:05,878 Speaker 2: I love. Think Puerto Rican baseball players on my ticky 635 00:28:05,958 --> 00:28:08,838 Speaker 2: than I still stay in touch with Richard, Alex Cora, 636 00:28:09,758 --> 00:28:12,638 Speaker 2: Davey Martinez has Puerto Rican background. All these guys really 637 00:28:12,838 --> 00:28:13,478 Speaker 2: know the game. 638 00:28:13,598 --> 00:28:13,718 Speaker 1: Man. 639 00:28:14,158 --> 00:28:16,318 Speaker 2: When I have a conversation with them, it's so cool 640 00:28:16,878 --> 00:28:18,438 Speaker 2: to see how they break it down and the things 641 00:28:18,478 --> 00:28:21,558 Speaker 2: that they see that somebody else doesn't see. I would wish, 642 00:28:21,638 --> 00:28:23,878 Speaker 2: I would hope that as you move it forward, that's 643 00:28:23,918 --> 00:28:26,318 Speaker 2: where instructional leagues are so important. It's where the minor 644 00:28:26,398 --> 00:28:28,678 Speaker 2: leagues are so important. That's why I guess I'm going 645 00:28:28,718 --> 00:28:30,118 Speaker 2: to root for the Blue Jays the rest of the 646 00:28:30,158 --> 00:28:32,838 Speaker 2: way for sure, now that my eyes are wide open. 647 00:28:33,198 --> 00:28:37,318 Speaker 2: Play the game. Play the complete game. Understand the complete game, 648 00:28:37,838 --> 00:28:39,918 Speaker 2: so that when you get in tight moments, you could 649 00:28:39,958 --> 00:28:41,238 Speaker 2: you don't have to get the ball with the wall 650 00:28:41,318 --> 00:28:43,638 Speaker 2: necessarily to win it. You can do other things to 651 00:28:43,718 --> 00:28:46,118 Speaker 2: win it, whether it's on the basis, which they're very good. 652 00:28:46,238 --> 00:28:48,118 Speaker 2: How about how about last scoring and just tapping the 653 00:28:48,158 --> 00:28:50,158 Speaker 2: home plate. That slide coming into the plate, that's all. 654 00:28:50,438 --> 00:28:53,878 Speaker 2: That's all instinctive. It's intuitive. It's just it's not taught. 655 00:28:53,998 --> 00:28:56,038 Speaker 2: I mean, that's just the feel for the game. Jimmy 656 00:28:56,158 --> 00:28:58,598 Speaker 2: Edmonds is the best slider I've ever seen. Jimmy Edmonds 657 00:28:58,838 --> 00:29:02,918 Speaker 2: played the game so Ruben Tomorrow, my boy Ben with 658 00:29:03,078 --> 00:29:06,158 Speaker 2: the Stanford and when he liked what somebody did, he 659 00:29:06,198 --> 00:29:08,998 Speaker 2: would just blurt it out real loud. You could really 660 00:29:09,198 --> 00:29:13,038 Speaker 2: play the game. And I love that phrase. Not talked 661 00:29:13,038 --> 00:29:13,558 Speaker 2: about enough. 662 00:29:13,718 --> 00:29:15,958 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting, Joe. I'm with you on the Blue Jays. 663 00:29:15,998 --> 00:29:18,198 Speaker 1: I think there's a real contrast that we've seen over 664 00:29:18,238 --> 00:29:21,398 Speaker 1: the first four games that you know, the Dodgers to me, 665 00:29:21,558 --> 00:29:24,198 Speaker 1: have the edge and talent, pure talent. Right, if you 666 00:29:24,238 --> 00:29:26,078 Speaker 1: have a showcase and you can get everybody out there 667 00:29:26,118 --> 00:29:27,638 Speaker 1: and you're picking up sides, you're going to pick more 668 00:29:27,678 --> 00:29:30,078 Speaker 1: Dodgers than Blue Jays. And it's the way the Blue 669 00:29:30,158 --> 00:29:32,398 Speaker 1: Jays play baseball. First of all, the way they've been 670 00:29:32,438 --> 00:29:35,678 Speaker 1: pitching has been fantastic. They're throwing a very low percentage 671 00:29:35,678 --> 00:29:38,158 Speaker 1: of fastballs. I think they're down to about forty four percent. 672 00:29:38,638 --> 00:29:40,278 Speaker 1: It's one of the lowest that we've seen in the 673 00:29:40,318 --> 00:29:43,278 Speaker 1: World Series in the last twenty years. They're mixing it 674 00:29:43,358 --> 00:29:45,238 Speaker 1: up well on the mountain, they're running the base as well. 675 00:29:45,318 --> 00:29:47,398 Speaker 1: They put the ball in play. You've seen these rallies 676 00:29:47,438 --> 00:29:49,638 Speaker 1: that happened in a heartbeat right last night, and well 677 00:29:49,638 --> 00:29:52,398 Speaker 1: in Game four they scored what was it, four runs 678 00:29:52,438 --> 00:29:54,398 Speaker 1: in the span of twenty twenty one pitches, and they've 679 00:29:54,438 --> 00:29:57,958 Speaker 1: done that throughout the postseason and the Dodgers again, it's interesting. 680 00:29:58,318 --> 00:30:00,438 Speaker 1: Dave Roberts Idea was like, this is almost like a 681 00:30:00,478 --> 00:30:02,798 Speaker 1: football team, Joe, that has more talent than the other team. 682 00:30:02,838 --> 00:30:04,998 Speaker 1: You're going to play straight up, right the team has 683 00:30:05,078 --> 00:30:07,038 Speaker 1: less talent, They're gonna have to put some trick plays 684 00:30:07,038 --> 00:30:07,678 Speaker 1: in play. 685 00:30:07,678 --> 00:30:08,838 Speaker 3: Straight up, you're gonna lose the game. 686 00:30:08,918 --> 00:30:09,038 Speaker 2: Right. 687 00:30:09,598 --> 00:30:13,758 Speaker 1: So David's one reason he stayed with Pajes is you 688 00:30:13,878 --> 00:30:16,678 Speaker 1: also don't want to signal to your guys that hey, 689 00:30:16,758 --> 00:30:17,518 Speaker 1: something's to miss here. 690 00:30:17,838 --> 00:30:20,358 Speaker 3: You know, he wants to make sure they know they're 691 00:30:20,398 --> 00:30:20,918 Speaker 3: the better team. 692 00:30:20,958 --> 00:30:22,878 Speaker 1: But now they're at the point where he has to 693 00:30:23,038 --> 00:30:25,358 Speaker 1: change that, and I think he will make a lineup 694 00:30:25,438 --> 00:30:27,758 Speaker 1: change now. He doesn't have great options. You know, Alex 695 00:30:27,878 --> 00:30:30,718 Speaker 1: call Migey Rojas. You know, I'm gonna Sure those are 696 00:30:30,798 --> 00:30:34,958 Speaker 1: serious changing moves, but now the Jays have dented them 697 00:30:35,078 --> 00:30:37,118 Speaker 1: enough that they're going to have to do something a 698 00:30:37,158 --> 00:30:39,518 Speaker 1: little bit different that they're not going to out talent 699 00:30:39,678 --> 00:30:40,078 Speaker 1: this team. 700 00:30:40,158 --> 00:30:41,718 Speaker 3: That's where I see the series has changed. 701 00:30:41,998 --> 00:30:44,558 Speaker 2: That's awesome, that's great stuff right there. I love all 702 00:30:44,598 --> 00:30:47,558 Speaker 2: of that. You're right, you know, you just you got 703 00:30:47,638 --> 00:30:50,078 Speaker 2: me going today. I mean you're talking, you're describing the 704 00:30:50,158 --> 00:30:52,398 Speaker 2: ascension of the Tampa Bay Rays when you have to 705 00:30:52,438 --> 00:30:54,918 Speaker 2: beat the Yankees. The Red Sox Toronto was very good 706 00:30:54,958 --> 00:30:57,478 Speaker 2: at that point. They had great pitching, play the game. 707 00:30:57,558 --> 00:31:00,278 Speaker 2: I mean, it's not that complicated. It just takes time 708 00:31:00,398 --> 00:31:02,638 Speaker 2: to teach the entire game, and you have to have 709 00:31:02,718 --> 00:31:04,918 Speaker 2: people that know how to teach the entire game. Honestly, 710 00:31:05,278 --> 00:31:08,838 Speaker 2: you just can't put anybody out there instructionally speaking, to 711 00:31:08,998 --> 00:31:11,878 Speaker 2: teach the fundamentals of the game. Well, I'm just I'm sorry. 712 00:31:11,958 --> 00:31:15,318 Speaker 2: That's that, that is true. You can't put So what 713 00:31:15,398 --> 00:31:16,878 Speaker 2: do you want? Do you want? Do you want the 714 00:31:16,958 --> 00:31:19,798 Speaker 2: game fundamentally played to a standard that you know that 715 00:31:20,078 --> 00:31:22,238 Speaker 2: you're describing. We're describing with the Blue Jays right now, 716 00:31:22,318 --> 00:31:26,038 Speaker 2: that is like really artistic fun to watch painted a 717 00:31:26,078 --> 00:31:27,878 Speaker 2: butt to the other side, et cetera. Or do you 718 00:31:27,958 --> 00:31:31,558 Speaker 2: want to emphasize the game that's played more with a 719 00:31:31,758 --> 00:31:34,958 Speaker 2: laptop or a computer whatever. Hawk guys all these different 720 00:31:35,438 --> 00:31:39,078 Speaker 2: different ways to evaluate spin, where the ball's placed on 721 00:31:39,198 --> 00:31:41,718 Speaker 2: the hand, or launch angles, et cetera. What game do 722 00:31:41,758 --> 00:31:43,838 Speaker 2: you want to play? Why can't you play both games? 723 00:31:44,158 --> 00:31:46,918 Speaker 2: That's that's my point. Why can't you play both games? 724 00:31:47,478 --> 00:31:50,518 Speaker 2: I think obviously, I'm sure the Blue Jays imbibe in 725 00:31:50,558 --> 00:31:52,318 Speaker 2: a lot of these the new tech they have to. 726 00:31:52,438 --> 00:31:54,758 Speaker 2: Of course they do another front office, but at the 727 00:31:54,798 --> 00:31:57,758 Speaker 2: same point they have obviously imbibed in the school of 728 00:31:58,798 --> 00:32:01,478 Speaker 2: what's happening now. I'm not old school, I'm not a 729 00:32:01,478 --> 00:32:03,838 Speaker 2: new school. I'm in school. And that's to me that 730 00:32:03,958 --> 00:32:08,078 Speaker 2: that's always we've discussed this, that's always been a concern 731 00:32:08,158 --> 00:32:10,038 Speaker 2: of mine or bothered me. I think when it comes 732 00:32:10,078 --> 00:32:12,118 Speaker 2: down to truly, what bothers me about today's game is 733 00:32:12,158 --> 00:32:15,038 Speaker 2: the polarity. Like it's either you're either all in on 734 00:32:15,158 --> 00:32:17,038 Speaker 2: this side or you're all in on that side. It's 735 00:32:17,158 --> 00:32:20,038 Speaker 2: it's very difficult to balance both. And when you see 736 00:32:20,038 --> 00:32:22,238 Speaker 2: it in action, which I think you're we're describing, the 737 00:32:22,278 --> 00:32:26,198 Speaker 2: Blue Jays are that there they are in school in action. 738 00:32:26,838 --> 00:32:29,358 Speaker 2: That's what's fun, and that's what's I think. I don't 739 00:32:29,358 --> 00:32:32,118 Speaker 2: even know what the televised rate is or what the 740 00:32:32,478 --> 00:32:34,518 Speaker 2: people tuning in to the number is, but those that 741 00:32:34,638 --> 00:32:37,158 Speaker 2: have and the people I speak with absolutely entertained by 742 00:32:37,198 --> 00:32:39,638 Speaker 2: this whole thing. And it's almost it's almost a David 743 00:32:39,678 --> 00:32:43,398 Speaker 2: and Goliath, although you know, David is really showing that 744 00:32:43,518 --> 00:32:46,558 Speaker 2: he's more than that. But that's it. It's the difference, 745 00:32:46,638 --> 00:32:48,798 Speaker 2: that dichotomy between just doing it one way or the 746 00:32:48,838 --> 00:32:51,598 Speaker 2: other as opposed to homogenizing both sides. 747 00:32:52,038 --> 00:32:54,038 Speaker 3: Well, we wound up with a really good World series. 748 00:32:54,078 --> 00:32:55,678 Speaker 3: No matter what happens the rest of the way. 749 00:32:55,758 --> 00:32:58,478 Speaker 1: We know the series is going back to Toronto for 750 00:32:58,598 --> 00:33:00,598 Speaker 1: at least Game six, and maybe we get a Game 751 00:33:00,718 --> 00:33:01,358 Speaker 1: seven as well. 752 00:33:01,478 --> 00:33:03,678 Speaker 3: But it's been a good one. I think it's better 753 00:33:03,678 --> 00:33:04,678 Speaker 3: than a lot of people thought. 754 00:33:05,038 --> 00:33:07,198 Speaker 1: And we had an all time classic with the eighteen 755 00:33:07,278 --> 00:33:10,358 Speaker 1: inning game, and we'll see what lies ahead which brings 756 00:33:10,438 --> 00:33:13,398 Speaker 1: us here to the ninth inning. Joe, you being the closer, 757 00:33:13,478 --> 00:33:14,638 Speaker 1: you've got the ball in your hands. 758 00:33:14,958 --> 00:33:17,038 Speaker 3: How are you going to end this episode of the 759 00:33:17,078 --> 00:33:17,598 Speaker 3: Book of Joe. 760 00:33:17,838 --> 00:33:19,998 Speaker 2: I think we're pretty good. I think we're pretty good. 761 00:33:20,598 --> 00:33:23,038 Speaker 2: You know. It's like Tony Battello getting this opportunity to 762 00:33:23,158 --> 00:33:26,158 Speaker 2: manage in with the giants. Again. I needed to know 763 00:33:26,238 --> 00:33:28,278 Speaker 2: more about him, and I did. I've been researching it 764 00:33:28,398 --> 00:33:31,478 Speaker 2: briefly slightly, and I've really I understand it. And then 765 00:33:31,518 --> 00:33:34,238 Speaker 2: it brought me to former great college coaches because I 766 00:33:34,358 --> 00:33:36,918 Speaker 2: was a scout starting in nineteen eighty one, and brother 767 00:33:37,038 --> 00:33:39,918 Speaker 2: I was around the best. I mean, all these college coaches. 768 00:33:39,998 --> 00:33:42,678 Speaker 2: These guys were outstanding, and I knew that I loved 769 00:33:42,718 --> 00:33:45,158 Speaker 2: the academic process to the game at that time, and 770 00:33:45,238 --> 00:33:47,998 Speaker 2: it was actually turned off by the professional process, being 771 00:33:48,078 --> 00:33:50,638 Speaker 2: that I didn't think that was it was organized enough 772 00:33:50,798 --> 00:33:53,398 Speaker 2: or that it was sophisticated enough. That was my concern 773 00:33:53,478 --> 00:33:55,998 Speaker 2: at that time. So again, when as I grew up, 774 00:33:56,038 --> 00:33:59,438 Speaker 2: I tried to balance both sides. Augia Gurto Augi Gurrito 775 00:33:59,638 --> 00:34:01,838 Speaker 2: is one of the more fascinating coaches I met. He 776 00:34:01,958 --> 00:34:04,558 Speaker 2: was at cal State Fullerton at that time. Our common 777 00:34:04,598 --> 00:34:08,718 Speaker 2: friend was Kenny Riviza. Kenny was the sports psychologist, mental 778 00:34:08,758 --> 00:34:11,278 Speaker 2: skills coach passed away recently a couple of years ago, 779 00:34:11,518 --> 00:34:14,798 Speaker 2: and he was Augie's guy, and then he became my guy. 780 00:34:14,918 --> 00:34:17,038 Speaker 2: But he would always give me Augie stuff, and I'm 781 00:34:17,078 --> 00:34:18,518 Speaker 2: here to tell you, man, if you get a chance 782 00:34:18,598 --> 00:34:20,758 Speaker 2: to go and you're gonna get violent times. I mean, 783 00:34:20,798 --> 00:34:22,358 Speaker 2: Aggie's going to tell you what he thinks, man. And 784 00:34:22,438 --> 00:34:24,878 Speaker 2: I love that. I love the fire and his speeches, 785 00:34:25,358 --> 00:34:28,358 Speaker 2: but the content is so good. So I found this 786 00:34:28,798 --> 00:34:32,198 Speaker 2: video and I don't have it like as a word 787 00:34:32,278 --> 00:34:34,558 Speaker 2: for ward, like a quote, but if you get a chance, 788 00:34:35,158 --> 00:34:38,878 Speaker 2: it's Aggie talking about the importance of baseball in life 789 00:34:39,118 --> 00:34:41,958 Speaker 2: for a baseball player. I'm going to just paraphrase a 790 00:34:41,958 --> 00:34:45,198 Speaker 2: couple of things here. Baseball is important because of what 791 00:34:45,358 --> 00:34:49,438 Speaker 2: it does for you. Causes maturity helps aid immaturity become 792 00:34:49,518 --> 00:34:51,918 Speaker 2: more mentally tough, and you learn how to outcompete the 793 00:34:52,038 --> 00:34:54,318 Speaker 2: other side. God do I love that. We're just talking 794 00:34:54,358 --> 00:34:56,798 Speaker 2: about show Hey and a lot of these better players 795 00:34:56,838 --> 00:35:00,718 Speaker 2: athletes they don't need they don't need globs of intel 796 00:35:00,798 --> 00:35:03,158 Speaker 2: before the game. They need to just be able to 797 00:35:03,238 --> 00:35:05,438 Speaker 2: out compete. That's something he's to talk to KB about. 798 00:35:05,518 --> 00:35:08,358 Speaker 2: Chris Bryant, how old you are twenty four? Okay, you've 799 00:35:08,358 --> 00:35:10,838 Speaker 2: been Rooky of the Year, You've been MVP, you were 800 00:35:10,838 --> 00:35:13,998 Speaker 2: a College Player of the Year. Your pedigree is ridiculous. 801 00:35:14,278 --> 00:35:15,998 Speaker 2: So all you have left to do on an that 802 00:35:16,118 --> 00:35:18,038 Speaker 2: lead basis is go up there and out compete the 803 00:35:18,118 --> 00:35:20,518 Speaker 2: other side. You don't need to really think about a 804 00:35:20,518 --> 00:35:22,758 Speaker 2: whole lot of stuff. You are twenty five, you're a 805 00:35:22,758 --> 00:35:25,038 Speaker 2: good looking guy, you're tall, you could play several positions, 806 00:35:25,078 --> 00:35:28,158 Speaker 2: you could run. Now, go out and just want to 807 00:35:28,198 --> 00:35:32,158 Speaker 2: beat the other guy out compete. The next point he 808 00:35:32,238 --> 00:35:35,438 Speaker 2: made was that it helps baseball helps you to find 809 00:35:35,518 --> 00:35:38,198 Speaker 2: your courage to make your own decisions and act on 810 00:35:38,278 --> 00:35:41,718 Speaker 2: your own thoughts. God do I love that, which ends 811 00:35:41,798 --> 00:35:44,198 Speaker 2: up to be what life is all about. I'm not 812 00:35:44,238 --> 00:35:46,158 Speaker 2: going to keep going on and on, but that, really, 813 00:35:46,558 --> 00:35:49,358 Speaker 2: I thought was encapsulates everything he was trying to say 814 00:35:49,518 --> 00:35:52,478 Speaker 2: to his team. And I mean dropped the few f bombs, 815 00:35:52,518 --> 00:35:54,718 Speaker 2: et cetera, because that's who Aggi was. But God, his 816 00:35:54,878 --> 00:35:57,958 Speaker 2: content was so good. It was so good. So that's 817 00:35:57,958 --> 00:36:00,718 Speaker 2: what we're talking about, the maturity, the mental toughness, the 818 00:36:00,878 --> 00:36:03,278 Speaker 2: competing component of what the Blue Jays are showing right now. 819 00:36:04,078 --> 00:36:09,438 Speaker 2: Nothing there about anything but playing baseball hard. Fundamentally, of course, 820 00:36:09,518 --> 00:36:11,598 Speaker 2: we want information. I want as much I want better 821 00:36:11,678 --> 00:36:13,358 Speaker 2: information than the other team. I want to be able 822 00:36:13,358 --> 00:36:16,558 Speaker 2: to act and act upon that. However, at the moment 823 00:36:16,638 --> 00:36:19,038 Speaker 2: that the game is being played, this seven game world 824 00:36:19,118 --> 00:36:23,518 Speaker 2: series right now, the Blue Jays just attempting to becoming 825 00:36:23,558 --> 00:36:26,758 Speaker 2: successful at out competing the other side. That's what's going 826 00:36:26,838 --> 00:36:27,958 Speaker 2: to determine the true outcome. 827 00:36:28,078 --> 00:36:29,918 Speaker 3: Great stuff and a great matchup. 828 00:36:29,998 --> 00:36:32,998 Speaker 1: It really really is the talent of the Dodgers against 829 00:36:33,038 --> 00:36:34,838 Speaker 1: the grit of the Blue Jays. I know that's over 830 00:36:34,998 --> 00:36:37,958 Speaker 1: simplifying things, but that's what we've seen through four games, 831 00:36:38,038 --> 00:36:40,798 Speaker 1: and maybe we'll get as many as three more left. 832 00:36:41,398 --> 00:36:43,358 Speaker 3: Great stuff, Joe, We'll see you next time. 833 00:36:43,638 --> 00:36:45,678 Speaker 2: Thank you, buddy, and listen, hang in there, man, you'll 834 00:36:45,678 --> 00:36:47,038 Speaker 2: get some sleep one of these days. 835 00:36:47,718 --> 00:36:48,438 Speaker 3: Yeah, November. 836 00:36:48,878 --> 00:36:50,038 Speaker 2: Okay, Well. 837 00:36:58,438 --> 00:37:01,638 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. 838 00:37:01,878 --> 00:37:06,718 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 839 00:37:06,958 --> 00:37:08,718 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.