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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at

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Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple Coarckley and Android

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Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: That centeen youth is remarkable and something that will play

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Speaker 2: into the conversation that we're about to have with not

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Speaker 2: only a member of Congress, but one of the only

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Speaker 2: physicians who's going to be voting on this bill. Whenever

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Speaker 2: this does happen today tomorrow, we can bring you up

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Speaker 2: to date. Right now, we're waiting for a vote on

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Speaker 2: a rule here on the House floor, and the potential

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Speaker 2: for a full floor vote could be today, tonight, tomorrow morning,

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Speaker 2: maybe on the fourth of July. As we just discussed

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Speaker 2: with Laura Davison, it appears nobody's going home until this

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Speaker 2: is done, unless, of course, this is really derailed with

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Speaker 2: worries about debt and deficit, with orri about changes dare

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Speaker 2: I use the word cuts to Medicaid and a couple

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Speaker 2: of other matters. It does seem the Salt Caucus has

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Speaker 2: come around, but there are a lot of questions right

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Speaker 2: now about what this is going to bring to the floor.

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Speaker 2: The members of the Freedom Caucus, the fiscal Hawks who

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Speaker 2: oppose this, our meeting at the White House right now,

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Speaker 2: and we're joined in studio by a Republican member of Congress,

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Speaker 2: so you've heard from before on this program who was

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Speaker 2: in fact treating Medicaid patients as recently as yesterday, Greg

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Speaker 2: Murphy from North Carolina.

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Speaker 3: Great to see you and welcome back to Bloomberg.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: It's quite a moment that we're in right now, and

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Speaker 2: you have a unique perspective. I like to think that

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Speaker 2: your colleagues are asking for your advice on this and

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Speaker 2: I want your input on the changes to Medicaid before

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Speaker 2: we get that far. Does this rule even get to

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Speaker 2: the floor today, what's the state of play?

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Speaker 4: Well, I think the rule gets to the floor. Whether

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Speaker 4: it passes or not is the real question, because you know,

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Speaker 4: we don't pass the rule. Basically, it is a stop

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Speaker 4: it is not if we don't. If the bill doesn't pass,

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Speaker 4: things can be dead. If we don't pass rule. It

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Speaker 4: brings us a chance to come back and address concerns

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Speaker 4: that maybe different portions of the House Caucus made are

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Speaker 4: have well and you know, things getting directly from the Senate,

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Speaker 4: that's what they wanted. Great, But if we have questions

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Speaker 4: about them, or real concerns about them, there needs to

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Speaker 4: be a mechanism, I think, to get those addressed. So

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Speaker 4: that's where we are.

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Speaker 3: When it comes to Medicaid.

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Speaker 2: We've talked about this before, and I know that you

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Speaker 2: supported eliminating waste, fraud and abuse from the program. You've speaken,

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Speaker 2: you've spoken openly about that. There are other changes and

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Speaker 2: potential cuts that you might be worried about. There's also

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Speaker 2: the matter of the provider tax, so what it means

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Speaker 2: for rural hospitals.

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Speaker 4: Give us the physicians view here, Yeah, I think if

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Speaker 4: we back up, this is an exceedingly overly complex system

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Speaker 4: of Medicaid reimbursement where we have, you know, things where

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Speaker 4: the hospitals tax themselves, send the money to the state,

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Speaker 4: and the state then draws down more money to give

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Speaker 4: back to the hospitals. You have these direct funds, you

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Speaker 4: have indirect funds. It is a very very complex scheme

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Speaker 4: as if it will and what's been happened once it

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Speaker 4: been allowed to happen really over the last couple decades,

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Speaker 4: especially the last decade, is a lot of drawdowns from

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Speaker 4: the federal government to do things that states really should

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Speaker 4: be doing on themselves. You know, North Carolina just expanded

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Speaker 4: Medicaid a couple of years ago, and that brings an

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Speaker 4: entirely new population in I was in favor of that

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Speaker 4: because those are our working poor, the farmers, the fishermen,

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Speaker 4: the clergy, the people in eastern North Carolina that are

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Speaker 4: working but just simply can't afford healthcare. You know, we

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Speaker 4: want to attack this. And the House version was waste, fraud,

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Speaker 4: and abuse. Nobody can argue with those things, getting people

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Speaker 4: off the rolls that were illegally on the rolls or

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Speaker 4: illegally in the country, or were able bodied. The Senate

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Speaker 4: has taken a little bit different approach. It's kind of

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Speaker 4: one of those things that it's like, I'll use the

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Speaker 4: basketball analogy. It's not the first foul you see, it's

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Speaker 4: the reaction to the foul, and the first foul we've seen.

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Speaker 4: Really a lot happened with the Biden administration of expanding

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Speaker 4: the Medicaid roles to people that honestly should not be eligible,

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Speaker 4: are not eligible to beyond this. So it's trying to

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Speaker 4: now correct that, and we look like we're the bad

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Speaker 4: guys because we're the second person seen as the foul

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Speaker 4: and trying to fix a system and reform a system

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Speaker 4: for those individuals who truly deserve it.

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Speaker 3: That's quite an analogy. So are you close to a

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Speaker 3: yes or are you stuck on this?

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Speaker 4: I am in the information gathering stage. I will tell

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Speaker 4: you this. As a surgeon, we always measured twice and

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Speaker 4: cut once. That's just what we do. And usually surgeons

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Speaker 4: are pretty direct and we go through things. But this

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Speaker 4: is too important just for a knee jerk response. Look,

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Speaker 4: I'm on Trump's team. I want him to succeed, but

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Speaker 4: I also think he wants the best package possible delivered

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Speaker 4: to the American people.

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Speaker 2: This is interesting because I know that you support Donald Trump, sure,

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Speaker 2: but you also see a window that's not necessarily closing here.

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Speaker 2: We don't have to manage the debt limit, for instance,

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Speaker 2: until we're probably into August.

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Speaker 3: That gives you a whole other month to work on.

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Speaker 4: This, right, Yeah, you know what time is of the essence,

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Speaker 4: We do want to get this done now. We don't

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Speaker 4: want to sit there and let this drag out. Because

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Speaker 4: there are some truths be told some political concerns to

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Speaker 4: do this, but we have a chance, we have a

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Speaker 4: moment in time really to get this right. Stop some

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Speaker 4: of the abuses that are occurring within the medicaid system.

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Speaker 4: I mean there are not only on the individual level,

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Speaker 4: but on hospital levels and other levels. There are abuses

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Speaker 4: that have occurred. I was chief of staff of are

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Speaker 4: at the time, a two billion dollar medical system, and

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Speaker 4: so I know a lot about where the moneys come from,

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Speaker 4: where they go. There's a lot of individuals that there's

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Speaker 4: a lot of ways for fraud abuse that goes in

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Speaker 4: these you know, I see you see some of these

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Speaker 4: CEOs of hospital systems earning millions and millions of dollars

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Speaker 4: when most of the problem, most of their moneys are

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Speaker 4: coming in from taxpayer initiatives. There's I have a problem

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Speaker 4: with some of that.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 4: It's one thing for CEOs that run companies on the

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Speaker 4: on the five hundred index or whatever, but it's a

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Speaker 4: different thing when you're making your money based upon taxpayer dollars.

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Speaker 4: That said, there are a lot of abuses that go

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Speaker 4: in this system. There is this is once in a

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Speaker 4: lifetime opportunity to get it right. We need to get

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Speaker 4: it right. You know. One other thing I'll just say

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Speaker 4: is in the state of North Carolina, fifty two percent

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Speaker 4: of the births occur to mothers on medicaid. So how

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Speaker 4: is this This is a symptom of a societal issue.

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Speaker 4: Now we're being paid for with medicaid dollars, and how

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Speaker 4: do we fix that issue which actually makes then the

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Speaker 4: medicaid issue much easier to treat. I don't have the

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Speaker 4: answer to that. We have And I see this all

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Speaker 4: the time, Joe. I see kids coming in, having kids

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Speaker 4: and their grandmother who's thirty two taking care of the

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Speaker 4: child when the child still is either in high school

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Speaker 4: or trying to figure out if they can go to

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Speaker 4: college or not. That's a systemic issue of society, and

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Speaker 4: we're trying to deal with it, trying to pay for

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Speaker 4: it somehow, which at some point you got to draw

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Speaker 4: the line. We can't keep doing this. We have to

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Speaker 4: have some financial responsibility here.

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Speaker 3: Is there anyone to tell a story like that to

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Speaker 3: President Trump? I mean, that's an incredible.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think, well, I don't know anybody in Congress

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Speaker 4: that's still practices medicine. I'm the only physician that still does.

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Speaker 4: I live in a very very poor area of eastern

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Speaker 4: North Carolina, which are all Trump supporters, and so I

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Speaker 4: do think it is a message he needs to hear

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Speaker 4: how critical this is going to be for eastern North Carolina.

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Speaker 4: I'm just trying to figure out how to thread this needle,

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Speaker 4: you know, to fulfill the agenda that the president wants,

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Speaker 4: but at the same time to make sure that access

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Speaker 4: is affordable and accessible for the patients I see in

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Speaker 4: eastern North Carolina.

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Speaker 2: When you consider the process here and the potential for

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Speaker 2: another reaction or another foul, Yeah, you make enough changes,

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Speaker 2: this has to go back to the Senate.

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Speaker 3: Does that need to happen? Can you make changes without

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Speaker 3: that happening?

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Speaker 4: I don't know that. If we make changes, I think

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Speaker 4: legislatively it has to go back to the Senate. But

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Speaker 4: you know, again, measure twice, you cut once. Let's do

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Speaker 4: this right. Let's not try to have to say, well,

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Speaker 4: we'll come back and fix that later. I'm not into

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Speaker 4: that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 3: Otherwise you feel like you got jammed by the Senate.

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Speaker 4: Well, yeah, and you know, I think the Senate the

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Speaker 4: guys were with guys and gals were with great intent

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Speaker 4: and what they wanted to do. I had been told

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Speaker 4: there was a lot more discussions about this beforehand, but

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Speaker 4: I think the Senate really actually did close to excuse me,

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Speaker 4: ninety percent of what we wanted. The changes they are

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Speaker 4: were pretty drag radical changes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, boy, that's right.

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Speaker 2: I want to ask you about your colleague from North

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Speaker 2: Carolina on the Senate side, som till Us. Pretty remarkable

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Speaker 2: development here, James. I don't know if we can get

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Speaker 2: that sound of Senator Tillis on the Senate floor over

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Speaker 2: the weekend. Of course, he's decided not to run for

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Speaker 2: reelection based on a pretty tight jam that he was in,

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Speaker 2: and some would argue that he was facing a very

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Speaker 2: difficult primary to begin with. Let's hear from Senator Tillos

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Speaker 2: if we can, from earlier on this process.

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Speaker 6: I'm telling the President that you have been misinformed. You

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Speaker 6: supporting the Senate mark will hurt people who are eligible

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Speaker 6: and qualified for Medicaid. We're going to make sure that

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Speaker 6: we fulfill the promise and then we can feel I

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Speaker 6: can feel good about a bill that I'm willing to

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Speaker 6: vote for, but until that time I will be withholding

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Speaker 6: my vote.

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Speaker 3: Pretty passionate stuff.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure you've had a chance to talk to the Senator,

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Speaker 2: what would you tell him?

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Speaker 3: Though he is he off on this one.

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Speaker 4: I think there are very are parts that Senator Tillis

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Speaker 4: is spot on correct. But we're in a system that

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Speaker 4: is exploded. Exploded, you know, the bidendministration. Normally, medic state

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Speaker 4: is state audits, they're Medicaid roles every year, who's eligible,

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Speaker 4: who's not eligible. The Biden administration didn't want any of that.

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Speaker 4: In fact, the head of CMS had two jobs to do.

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Speaker 4: She was in charge of infusing as much DEI into

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Speaker 4: medicine as possible and trying to put people on Medicaid

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Speaker 4: roles honestly who don't deserve to be. There will there

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Speaker 4: be some collateral damage. There's collateral damage with any legislation,

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Speaker 4: any legislation, But it's my job is to try to

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Speaker 4: make sure that there are agreements not only from the

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Speaker 4: federal government but also back in the state legislature. I

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Speaker 4: spoke with the Senator pro Tem A Burger, and I

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Speaker 4: pretty much was very firm that look, if this comes

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Speaker 4: down the pike, the state's going to have to cough

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Speaker 4: up some other moneies that it's been trying to pull

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Speaker 4: down from the federal government. Now we cannot bankrupt the

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Speaker 4: federal government on issues that the state should be taken

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Speaker 4: care of.

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Speaker 2: Well, we see a lawmaker like that call it quits,

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Speaker 2: and we've seen a few Don Bacon and other and

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Speaker 2: I realized he may have had his own personal.

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Speaker 3: Issues in making that decision.

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Speaker 2: But you wonder you're more effective by staying here in

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Speaker 2: office trying to make changes.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, I think I think Senator tell Us

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Speaker 4: has been thinking about this for a while and it

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Speaker 4: may just have been the you know, the last straw.

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Speaker 2: Sure, of course, everyone's got their wrong story. You're going

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Speaker 2: to run for Senate in North Carolina.

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Speaker 4: Well, I've been asked to. I was on the way

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Speaker 4: over here. I got another text ass I'd consider it.

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Speaker 2: So, well, this is interesting. Are you allowing yourself a

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Speaker 2: certain period of time to make that?

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Speaker 4: But I think, you know, Joe, I did not raise

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Speaker 4: my hand to get into politics undred years ago. I

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Speaker 4: got recruited, and it gives me a little bit of freedom.

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Speaker 4: I can always fall back on being a lowly surgeon

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Speaker 4: full time. And I've said that before. I want to

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Speaker 4: do the right thing. And and you know, next week,

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Speaker 4: if we get something done, I think we'll really start

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Speaker 4: to look at this who are the players in the game.

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Speaker 4: We can't let a Democrat take this seat. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 4: North Carolina needs a Republican in that seat.

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Speaker 3: And wonder what happened if Roy Cooper became the next senator.

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Speaker 4: From uh I don't yeah, I think that would be problematic.

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Speaker 4: He's been a little too far left and supported things

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Speaker 4: that the Democrat Party right now, Good Lord, if you

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Speaker 4: saw what you can look and see what happened with

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Speaker 4: the New York mayor's race. Nobody can recognize the Democratic

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Speaker 4: Party anymore. So you know, I'll make that decision next

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Speaker 4: week or the week thereafter.

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Speaker 2: And so you could take a pay cut for a

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Speaker 2: whole other job as a fascinating to stay here and watch.

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Speaker 3: It's to make less money, Yeah, fascinating.

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Speaker 2: I'd love to stay in touch with you on that

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Speaker 2: and hear about this deliberation because I know that's not

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Speaker 2: an easy decision to make.

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Speaker 3: Is that something you're talking to your family about?

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Speaker 5: Oh?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely? And you know, just like with all the other decisions,

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Speaker 4: you sit down, you talk with your family, ask the

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Speaker 4: Good Lord for some prayers and guidance, and you either

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Speaker 4: walk through doors that are opened up or you let

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Speaker 4: somebody else that you think can do the job as well.

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Speaker 4: Walk through too. I've got great colleagues in North Carolina. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: we just have to make sure we put somebody that

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Speaker 4: can be a Democrat and be a great senator.

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Speaker 3: Measure twice cut once.

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Speaker 4: That's exactly right.

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Speaker 2: That's the takeaway here from Greg Murphy. You're going to

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Speaker 2: head back to the House now. Yeah, we'll have our

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Speaker 2: eyes on you, and this is going to be wild.

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Speaker 2: Good luck in the next twenty four to forty eight hours,

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Speaker 2: we'll see if this bill passes.

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Speaker 4: Great.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for talking to us, all right.

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Speaker 2: Thank you from North Carolina of course, and speaking on

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Speaker 2: behalf of the Republicans here in Washington, some of whom

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Speaker 2: have not made up their mind, and we could still

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Speaker 2: see some changes to this legislation, as we just heard

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Speaker 2: from Congressman Murphy himself. We'll assembled our panel coming up next.

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Speaker 2: Rick Davis and Jim Messina are with us to hash

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Speaker 2: this out here as we prepare to count the votes

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Speaker 2: on a Wednesday in Washington. We've got a lot more

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Speaker 2: ahead here on the fastest show in politics.

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Speaker 3: Stay with us. I'm Joe Matthew live from Washington. This

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Speaker 3: is Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

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Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on

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Speaker 1: Apple Cockley and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 1: flagship New York station Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 2: We're all watching, of course, the House floor right now

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Speaker 2: with the series of procedural matters that we're going through

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Speaker 2: here that may or may not lead us to a

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Speaker 2: full smash.

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Speaker 3: Vote on the big beautiful Bill. Thanks for being with

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Speaker 3: us here on the Wednesday edition.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington here on Bloomberg Radio,

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Speaker 2: Satellite radio Channel one twenty one, Bloomberg Originals and YouTube.

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Speaker 2: Search Bloomberg Business News Live to see our video feed here.

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Speaker 2: A UC storm, they're calling it taking place on the

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Speaker 2: floor of the House right now, as members of the

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Speaker 2: Congressional Black Caucus storm the rostrum with a series of

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Speaker 2: unanimous consent requests not to necessarily get anything done other

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Speaker 2: than slow the process. Democrats, of course, have been locked

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Speaker 2: out of this process. That is the way it works

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Speaker 2: when you're dealing with reconciliation. It's a Republican family matter,

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Speaker 2: although Democrats are speaking about it, as we heard from

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Speaker 2: Minority Leader in the House Hakim Jeffreys earlier.

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Speaker 7: Listen, every single House Democrat will stand up for your healthcare,

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Speaker 7: stand up for your Medicaid, stand up for your Medicare,

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Speaker 7: stand up for the Affordable Care Act, stand up for

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Speaker 7: nutritional assistance for our children, our seniors, and our veterans.

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Speaker 7: That's all we need are four Republicans to join us

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Speaker 7: in support of their constituents, to have John McCain level

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Speaker 7: courage and stand up in defense of the healthcare of

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Speaker 7: the American people.

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Speaker 2: Haven't we come a long way when the Democratic leader

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Speaker 2: in the House is referring to John McCain to get

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Speaker 2: a round of applause from other Democrats. Let's assemble our

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Speaker 2: political panels speaking of John McCain. Bloomberg Politics contributor Rick

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Speaker 2: Davis is with US Republican strategist and partner at Stone

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Speaker 2: Court Capital. I'm also happy to say Jim Messina's back

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Speaker 2: Democratic strategist of course, ran Barack Obama's twenty twelve campaign. Gentlemen,

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Speaker 2: Great to see you both, and welcome to the conversation. Rick,

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Speaker 2: I don't know if your ears were ringing there. But

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Speaker 2: we just had a conversation with a Republican member of

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Speaker 2: the House, Greg Murphy from North Carolina, the last I

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Speaker 2: believe are only serving physician in the House of Representatives.

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Speaker 2: He's a Trump supporter, he's a Maga guy, and even

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Speaker 2: he has deep concerns about the changes that are being

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Speaker 2: made to Medicaid the impact it could have on his state,

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Speaker 2: he's still not a yes. How far are we away

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Speaker 2: from this actually potentially passing?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I only wish we had a few of those

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Speaker 8: Democrats that thought John McCain was a hero at the

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Speaker 8: time we were voting for him for president at two

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Speaker 8: thousand and eight, when Jim Massena and his team kick

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Speaker 8: my butt. Yeah. Look, I mean, this is a pretty

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Speaker 8: unpopular bill in America. Most polls I've seen really significantly negative.

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Speaker 8: I think that the White House and the Republican majority

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Speaker 8: have done an average job at best selling it to

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Speaker 8: the American public. Obviously, they've been consumed with selling it

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Speaker 8: to each other, and that takes up a lot of time.

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Speaker 8: But they're really going to have a job to do

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Speaker 8: if this thing gets signed in the law, They're going

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Speaker 8: to have to hit the road and sell this hard,

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Speaker 8: otherwise they're going to get the wrath of the American

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Speaker 8: electorate come midterms. But look, I think that you know

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Speaker 8: the Congressman Murphy, you know he's looking at running for

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Speaker 8: the set potentially. He made no bones about that in

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Speaker 8: a conversation with you just now that's a news item.

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Speaker 8: The reality is anybody who's going to be on a

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Speaker 8: ballot in twenty twenty six is trying to figure out

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Speaker 8: how do you go back and sell this to the

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Speaker 8: constituents that put you into office. And I think a

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Speaker 8: lot of these guys are starting to worry about that today.

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Speaker 3: Really interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to admit I was struck by Congress

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Speaker 2: and Murphy's answers. It does sound like he's really considering

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Speaker 2: a run for Senate.

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Speaker 3: Jim is seen. I can't imagine what's going through your

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Speaker 3: head right now.

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Speaker 2: Democrats don't play a role in this, but they're going

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Speaker 2: to have a lot to say on the midterm trail.

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Speaker 2: As Rick just mentioned, are you making commercials already?

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Speaker 4: Boy?

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Speaker 9: They'd be pretty easy to make. Joe, I agree with Rick.

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Speaker 9: I mean, this bill is about as popular as as

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Speaker 9: garbage like it is. When you look at the number

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Speaker 9: seventy eight percent of Americans want no cuts to Medicaid.

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Speaker 9: This cuts Medicaid almost a trillion dollars, and more importantly

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Speaker 9: for a bunch of people who are Bloomberg regular I

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Speaker 9: don't think anyone on this line or watching things that

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Speaker 9: adding another four trillion dollars to the debt is a

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Speaker 9: great idea. I think defending this next year in the

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Speaker 9: ballot box is going to be a nightmare for Republicans.

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Speaker 9: And you know, it's like groundhog Day. We've been through

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Speaker 9: this in twenty eighteen, Donald Trump and the Republicans lost

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Speaker 9: the House because the American public thought they were going

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Speaker 9: after Obamacare and going after healthcare. So then fast forward,

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Speaker 9: we're going to do the same thing again when they're

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Speaker 9: making cuts to Obamacare, they're making cuts to Medicaid, they're

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Speaker 9: making cuts to Medicare, and they think it'll be a

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Speaker 9: different response. And I just think that it is very,

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Speaker 9: very unclear that the American public is going to sit

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Speaker 9: back and say this is a great idea.

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Speaker 2: Well, while we're talking about the messaging component, here interesting

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Speaker 2: poll rick that came from Tony Fabrizio. Donald Trump, as

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Speaker 2: they say, preferred Polster. He ran numbers in Georgia Maine, Michigan,

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Speaker 2: and the aforementioned North Carolina and talked about this bill

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Speaker 2: as a branding it essentially as the Working Family's Tax

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Speaker 2: Cuts Bill. Poll found respondents came back sixty two percent

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Speaker 2: favorable twelve percent unfavorable when it was given that title.

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Speaker 2: That framing and measures taken individually like child tax credit,

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Speaker 2: no taxes on tips, no taxes on overtime were overwhelmingly popular.

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Speaker 2: Can Republicans thread the needle on this and talk about

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Speaker 2: the individual components as opposed to well, the big beautiful

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Speaker 2: bill or you've seen this movie before and it's pretty

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Speaker 2: difficult to delineate to the voter.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, look, I mean the problem with doing this segmentation

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Speaker 8: act right, taking little pieces of the whole and saying, oh,

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Speaker 8: look it, you should be happy with this because it

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Speaker 8: has this in it. I mean, this is a thousand

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Speaker 8: page bill with you know, trillions of dollars at stake,

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Speaker 8: and when you boil it down, if you're a family

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Speaker 8: that has now become at risk with its medicaid in

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Speaker 8: those states, it doesn't matter what the politicians are telling you.

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Speaker 8: If your Medicaid gets cut, if it's if your local

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Speaker 8: rural hospital shuts down, These are the things that matter

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Speaker 8: to voters. Voters don't care about the rhetoric. They care

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Speaker 8: about the impact on them. If they don't see a

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Speaker 8: tangible plus in their pocket books between now and November

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Speaker 8: of twenty six, they're going to vote their pocketbook. And

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Speaker 8: it's an awful hard sell to try and help people.

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Speaker 8: Don't believe what's happening in your kitchen table. Believe what

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Speaker 8: we're telling you happened in Washington. I go with the

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Speaker 8: kitchen table every time, and.

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Speaker 2: Even larger majority. Really interesting here, Jim Messina agree that

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Speaker 2: able bodied adults should have some sort of work requirements.

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Speaker 2: When it comes to the Medicaid cuts. Two thirds of

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Speaker 2: voters agree there is waste, fraud and abuse. How do

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Speaker 2: you message against.

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Speaker 9: That, Well, you message you get well, it's true, right,

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Speaker 9: there is waste, froud, abuse and getting rid of some

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Speaker 9: of that is Congress from Murphy talked about American public supportive.

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Speaker 4: But they're not going to look at that.

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Speaker 9: Voters are going to look exactly like like Rick just said.

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Speaker 4: And they're going to say, what does this do to me?

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Speaker 9: Voters want to know what it does to me, and

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Speaker 9: there's no question they're going to get less Medicaid next year.

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Speaker 9: There's no question they're going to get less Medicare and

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Speaker 9: they are Obamacare tax credits which everyone files at the

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Speaker 9: end of the year, are going to be substantially reduced,

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Speaker 9: and that's what they're going to look at. They're just

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Speaker 9: not you know, you can't say, look at this shiny

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Speaker 9: penny over here and think voters are going to fall

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Speaker 9: for it. They are going to look at what's in

439
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Speaker 9: it for them, and what's in it for them is

440
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,240
Speaker 9: going to be a very difficult thing to defend. And

441
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 9: I'm not being partisan about this. Rick's exactly right. I

442
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:42,280
Speaker 9: had to try to defend Obamacare in twenty ten after

443
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,720
Speaker 9: we pass one thousand page changes to the ACA, and

444
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,680
Speaker 9: it was impossible. It was so difficult, and we lost

445
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,359
Speaker 9: seventy seats in the House. And this is likely what

446
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,440
Speaker 9: the Republicans are going to have to try to do

447
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 9: in the midterm elections. And I think at the tall order.

448
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 3: Wow, Rick Blueberg's time.

449
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,160
Speaker 2: Kendall just caught up with Congressman Andy Harris and chairs

450
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,119
Speaker 2: the House Freedom Caucus on Capitol Hill. We'll try to

451
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 2: get this sound a little bit later in the broadcast.

452
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:09,360
Speaker 3: Asked if he's.

453
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 2: Negotiating with the White House, knowing that there were members

454
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:13,560
Speaker 2: of the Freedom Caucus at the White House. I believe

455
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,720
Speaker 2: they're still there right now talking to the President. Whether

456
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:20,120
Speaker 2: you're deal making over potential EOS commitments to legislation down

457
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 2: the line. Andy Harris said on camera, Rick, I have

458
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 2: not been talking to the White House about it. This

459
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,119
Speaker 2: is a decision to be made inside the House, and

460
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 2: it will be handled inside the House today. What does

461
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 2: that tell you about the state of affairs? Do we

462
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 2: get a rule vote today or is this thing going

463
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:35,919
Speaker 2: off the rails?

464
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,240
Speaker 8: Well, he sounds a little spunky this morning, no telling

465
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 8: what he had to leave at home to get to

466
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,879
Speaker 8: Washington and do this work. But look, I mean, you know,

467
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 8: anybody who's been betting against Speaker Johnson and Donald Trump,

468
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 8: our deputy Speaker of the House of Representatives, has been

469
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,680
Speaker 8: raw one hundred percent of the time this year, right,

470
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 8: And there is there's a magic in the White House.

471
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,119
Speaker 8: When you get these guys sitting in the Oval Office

472
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,960
Speaker 8: with the President of United States, regardless of who he is,

473
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,200
Speaker 8: you're going to get your way ninety percent of the time.

474
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 8: My guess is he gets his way, and those guys

475
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 8: who are there are going to sit down with Ay

476
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,120
Speaker 8: and say, oh my god, you are making our lives intolerable.

477
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,239
Speaker 8: Would you just not do any interviews between now and

478
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 8: the rules votes you know we've got today, because look,

479
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 8: I mean, it's every man for himself in the House always.

480
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 8: But Johnson has been cagy about getting his caucus to

481
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 8: vote the right way. And I have no doubt Donald

482
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:39,400
Speaker 8: Trump has got thumbscrews working overtime today in the Oval Office.

483
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 3: Thumbscrews.

484
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got no public events schedule, and we haven't

485
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 2: seen an update on the guidance certainly as of yet.

486
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 2: Fascinating reporting by NBC News Jim Assina. You spent enough

487
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 2: time in the Oval to know how things operate inside

488
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 2: the West Wing, and Donald Trump is a very different brand.

489
00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 2: He calls the Oval Office his nickname for the Oval Office.

490
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 2: Off to find this. It's basically Grand Central and off

491
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 2: of Grand Central, where you have lots of people milling

492
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,879
Speaker 2: in and out. Apparently there's something he calls the Monica

493
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 2: Lewinsky Room, the space near the Oval Office.

494
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 3: If you don't know what I'm talking about, you can

495
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:15,959
Speaker 3: google it.

496
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:20,199
Speaker 2: Where he keeps a beautifully organized gift shop of maga

497
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 2: hat's T shirts and the rest. A Republican senator who

498
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 2: was invited for a bill signing described this jd Vance

499
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 2: standing outside the oval, drinking coffee, eating cookies. Does this

500
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,680
Speaker 2: sound like somebody who cares about the details of this

501
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,640
Speaker 2: bill or just wants it passed.

502
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 4: I think he just wants it passed.

503
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,640
Speaker 9: And that's not a criticism of him. Like he've views

504
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,639
Speaker 9: himself as the kind of orchestrator and the leader and

505
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 9: someone who wants this thing done. And he's smart enough

506
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,479
Speaker 9: to Rick's point, to say, look, the speaker knows how

507
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 9: to get votes. The speaker hasn't failed, you know. The

508
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 9: Speaker will let me know who I need to put

509
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,239
Speaker 9: the thumbscrews to and we'll go get this done. And

510
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 9: eventually what's going to happen here. I think this bill

511
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 9: is going to pass this week because they're going to

512
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 9: have some version of Rick or I the political hack,

513
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 9: walk into the caucus and say, do you guys really

514
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 9: want to go home and have the entire country lobbying

515
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 9: you on this bill and start to figure out what's

516
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 9: in this bill? You want to go home to your

517
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 9: districts and have to defend some of the stuff in this.

518
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 9: No you do not, So let's pass this and go

519
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,199
Speaker 9: home and keep low and start to try to sell it.

520
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 9: And I think that's probably what Donald Trump's version of

521
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,160
Speaker 9: this is. He's been calling members saying, I will primary

522
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 9: you if you don't vote for this, and then Johnson's

523
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 9: going to hand out every piece of candy he can

524
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 9: to get people.

525
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 4: To vote for it.

526
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 9: If you need a water project in your district. Today's

527
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 9: a pretty great time to ask.

528
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 2: Joe grand Central terminal is how do he describe the oval?

529
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 2: Rick Davis, what do you think it's like in there

530
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 2: right now?

531
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 8: Oh, I'm sure there's all kinds of interesting discussions going on.

532
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 8: Jimson just mentioned the approach that hacks like us take

533
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:05,680
Speaker 8: you combination of cajoling and special offers. The really good

534
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 8: cuff links come out of the box today and get

535
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 8: shuffled around. But if he also at the other end

536
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,479
Speaker 8: of the equation, there are people out there showing polls

537
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 8: right now that shows vulnerable incumbent House members who might

538
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 8: get introduced to their MAGA primary opponent this afternoon. You know,

539
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 8: it goes both ways, just depends upon what they think

540
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 8: is going to need to get a vote and I agree.

541
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 8: I think it's going to happen. I think it's going

542
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 8: to happen. You know, either honor before fourth of July.

543
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 8: The President's going to get his way. I would not vote.

544
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 8: I would not back against him, you know, with this caucus.

545
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 2: All right, I just needed to hear Rick Davis say

546
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 2: it absolutely great, as Ryan notes, what a line here.

547
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 2: You want to go home and find out what's in

548
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 2: the bill and have to defend it. This is the

549
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 2: world we're in right now. With Jim Assina and Rick Davis,

550
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 2: many thanks. Do you both stay with us on The

551
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 2: fastest show in politics is Bloomberg.

552
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

553
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm. E's den

554
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,160
Speaker 1: on Alma Cocklay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App.

555
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch

556
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 1: us live on YouTube.

557
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 10: Voting is starting, not yet voting on the rule.

558
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 11: That, of course, is the key procedural hurdle that needs

559
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 11: to be conquered in order for the House to get

560
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,439
Speaker 11: to a vote on final passage of the bill, the

561
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 11: Reconciliation Bill that the Senate passed yesterday. We have a

562
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 11: multi vote series about to go down, Joe. The third

563
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 11: vote will be on this rule, and there is no

564
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 11: guarantee that the rule itself can pass, as House Freedom

565
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 11: Caucus members are suggesting they will not support it. And

566
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 11: of course you just spoke in the last hour with

567
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 11: Congressman Greg Murphy who suggested that this thing very well

568
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 11: could go down.

569
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, he thought the rule may well fail and this

570
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 2: whole process could move into next week. The only serving

571
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 2: physician in the House of Representatives, Greg Murphy, was very

572
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 2: concerned about the changes being made to medicate. He was

573
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 2: asking to slow the process down and in fact make

574
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 2: changes to this bill specifically to medicate, which would require

575
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 2: it going back to the Senate. Kayley, and I'm not

576
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 2: sure anyone has the wherewithal for that.

577
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 11: Well, it certainly would make that July fourth deadline the

578
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 11: President wants to meet very difficult to.

579
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 10: Meet if you have to take this to conference.

580
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 11: But even some senators were calling for that yesterday, like

581
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,439
Speaker 11: Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, who ultimately voted to pass it

582
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 11: in the Senate, says she hoped the House would change

583
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 11: it and send it back to her chain.

584
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 2: We've heard that from a couple of folks here on

585
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 2: the Senate side. It's unclear exactly how this is going

586
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 2: to play out today, but as Kaylee mentioned, we are

587
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 2: anticipating at least a rules vote, and so let's bring

588
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 2: you to the House right now. Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall has

589
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 2: been up there all morning and has the latest for us.

590
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 3: Tyler, what are you hearing?

591
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, hey, jos. We are still waiting for this vote

592
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 5: to happen. Of course, it's a procedural vote to this

593
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 5: vote on the rule, but it is important to ultimately

594
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 5: paving the way for final passage because they can't vote

595
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,640
Speaker 5: on the final contents of the bill until this rule

596
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 5: is passed. And it's going to give us an indication

597
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 5: here in the following moments how difficult House Speaker Mike

598
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 5: Johnson's job is about to get, because if the rule fails,

599
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 5: that could have a whole bunch of different implications for

600
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 5: how they need to negotiate this package to get it

601
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 5: over at the finish line. Now, we've broadly been talking

602
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 5: about how there's pretty broad agreement about the core pillars

603
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 5: of this package when it comes to the tax cut

604
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 5: side of things, but it is those spending cuts and

605
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 5: how this bill will add to our national debt that

606
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 5: is really starting to spur some of the most vocal

607
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 5: critics of the bill here on Capitol Hill. That includes

608
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 5: those members of the House Freedom Caucus, such as Congressman

609
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 5: Chip Roy, a Republican from Texas. I actually had the

610
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 5: chance to catch up with him earlier today. He predicted

611
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 5: that this first vote on the rule will fail and

612
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 5: suggested that the Senate might need to come back into

613
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 5: town so they can talk about this legislation.

614
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 12: We sent them a product. We liked it in some

615
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 12: respects could be better than others. The Senate has now

616
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,239
Speaker 12: made some changes, some are good, some are bad. Now

617
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 12: we got to look at the total product and decide

618
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 12: what it is that is take it or leave it?

619
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 12: How did you take it or leave it?

620
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 4: Legislating?

621
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 12: How about we send it back to him?

622
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 4: We say take it or leave it?

623
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 12: Right, so the Senate doesn't get to be the final

624
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 12: say on everything. Got to work this out.

625
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 5: So Joe and Kelly, we're going to have to see

626
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 5: how this ultimately develops, whether or not there actually is

627
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 5: an appetite for the Senate to retake this up. Considering

628
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 5: when we think about how these fiscal hawks counterparts in

629
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 5: the Senate like Ron Johnson and Rick Scott ultimately ended

630
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 5: voting in favor of this spill. Now, I also caught

631
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 5: up with the House Freedom Cocks chair Andy Harris. He

632
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 5: told me that he's actually not talking to the White

633
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 5: House about this. When I asked if there's any sort

634
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 5: of negotiations going on for some sort of other deals

635
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 5: such as promises for legislation down the line, or executive orders,

636
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 5: say to boost revenue raisers or curb spending, that they

637
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 5: could maybe get on board with, and he said that

638
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 5: they're not discussing it. Instead, they are focused on changing

639
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 5: the priorities in this package. Two main ones I'll leave

640
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 5: you with. One is snapping back the phase out of

641
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 5: the clean energy tax credits to how the House originally

642
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 5: had them, that would be twenty twenty seven. In the

643
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 5: House has a more lenient timeline. But second, something that

644
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 5: struck me as really interesting, he wants to see some

645
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 5: of the business tax credits made it temporary again. The

646
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 5: Senate had made most of them permanent, so we're gonna

647
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 5: have to see it. Potentially there could be any sort

648
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 5: of wiggle room there, because, as you both well know,

649
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 5: this bill is not designed to ping pong between the chambers.

650
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,719
Speaker 11: Well, yeah, that's exactly right, Tyler. When we consider this

651
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 11: vote on the rule, Yes, it going down would certainly

652
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 11: complicate measures and kill the floor effort for now. But

653
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 11: we have seen with votes in the past when the

654
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 11: Speaker has struggled to get his whip count essentially where

655
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 11: it needs to be, he just has left the vote

656
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 11: open and allowed President Trump himself time to make phone

657
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 11: calls to the holdouts. Is it possible that we could

658
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 11: see that this afternoon.

659
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 5: Potentially, we'll have to see. We won't get too wonky

660
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 5: into the procedure here, but Republicans are going to need

661
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 5: to do a little bit of shifting in how the

662
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 5: bill was actually written, because it does appear that they

663
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 5: actually left out a procedural move that would have opened

664
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 5: up that possibility to keep the debate open. Give House

665
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 5: Speaker Mike Johnson essentially an exit plan if everything goes

666
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 5: to turmoil once it does get to the floor. We

667
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 5: are expecting that to be though an option on the

668
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 5: table for him moving forward. Here, we know that President

669
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 5: Trump is already calling up these members inviting them to

670
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 5: the White Houses. Interesting to hear are understanding that some

671
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 5: of those more fiscal conservatives were over at the White House,

672
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 5: but also Congressman Mike Lawler, Republican from New York, somebody

673
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 5: who helped negotiate that Salt deal that we thought was

674
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 5: happy and on board with it, which does bring us

675
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 5: to another group to keep our eye on, not necessarily

676
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 5: the Salt Republicans, but also those moderate Republicans and those

677
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 5: critical battleground districts who have raised concerns about changes to Medicaid.

678
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 5: Not necessarily tightening the work requirements Joe and Kelly, but

679
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 5: how the Senate plan lowers that Medicaid provider tax for

680
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 5: states that expanded coverage under the Affordable Care Act. That

681
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 5: could also prove problematic when it comes to dissent going forward,

682
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 5: since we know sixteen Republicans had vowed that they wouldn't

683
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 5: vote for this if the bill did lower that provider tax.

684
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 11: All right, Ty Kendall reporting live from Capitol Hill for

685
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 11: us on Bloomberg TV and Radio. Thank you so much,

686
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 11: and we want to stay live on Capitol Hill as

687
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 11: we turn now to Democratic Congressman and Susan del Betty

688
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 11: of Washington, who of course shares the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee.

689
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 11: She is charged with making sure Democrats get elected to

690
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 11: the House of Representatives. Congressoman, welcome back to balance of power.

691
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 11: It's always great to have you. And we consider that

692
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 11: there are some of your Republican colleagues who are holding

693
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 11: out on this legislation for now. They'd like to see

694
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 11: it change in ways that could mean more rollbacks or

695
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 11: quicker rollbacks of inflation reduction acts, subsidies, perhaps deeper spending

696
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 11: cuts elsewhere. At this point, is it actually the best

697
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 11: case scenario for Democrats in the American public if this

698
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 11: bill passes as is, because it could only get worse

699
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 11: from your perspective if it's further changed.

700
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 13: Well, let's be clear, this is a terrible bill. It

701
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 13: raises costs for American families, It guts healthcare, seventeen million

702
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 13: people across the country losing their health coverage, prices going

703
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 13: up for everyone else. This is a terrible bill, and

704
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,719
Speaker 13: we are united and being against this bill. And frankly,

705
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 13: more Republicans should be against this bill, because the American

706
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 13: people are against this bill. Pull after pull. The more

707
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 13: people learn about this bill, the more they dislike it,

708
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:22,239
Speaker 13: and it is fiscally irresponsible. They're you know, Republicans who

709
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 13: want to make it worse. They've all voted for this.

710
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 13: Once in the House, they have the chance to decide

711
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 13: what they're going to do going forward. This is a

712
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 13: terrible bill and it's going to hurt all of their

713
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 13: districts and their communities. So hopefully there will be some

714
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 13: Republicans who are willing to actually stand up for the

715
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 13: American people and vote against this bill. But we know

716
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,239
Speaker 13: they all cave whenever it comes down to it and

717
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 13: follow along with Donald Trump.

718
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 2: So you're not expecting these no's to stay nos apparently, Congresswoman.

719
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 2: I'm just wondering, and I know there's not a lot

720
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 2: of conversation across the aisle if any right now, but

721
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 2: are you reaching out to Republicans who are on the fence,

722
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 2: are prepared to vote no, to join your coalition against

723
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 2: this legislation.

724
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 13: You know, we welcome any Republicans who are going to

725
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 13: vote no. They should be voting no because the impacts

726
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 13: of this are devastating, long term impacts to our communities

727
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 13: and in Republican districts, to thousands and thousands of people

728
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 13: losing access to health here, losing access to basic nutrition support,

729
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 13: making sure that we have healthy foods for our kids,

730
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 13: energy costs going up, the list goes on and on,

731
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 13: and just you know, four trillion dollar increase to the

732
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 13: debt that impacts our kids too. So Republicans say they're

733
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 13: fiscally responsible, absolutely not in this case. If they want

734
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 13: to do something different, they should stand up, vote no,

735
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 13: and come to the table and actually work on a

736
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 13: policy that will help move our country forward, invest in

737
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 13: our future, invest in working families.

738
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 10: Well Conqureersoman.

739
00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 11: Obviously, it is your charge of the d Triple C

740
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 11: to be looking at the map and if you look

741
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 11: at a district by district and how the impact of

742
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 11: this legislation may ultimately be felt in districts with seats

743
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 11: currently held by Republicans, how many potential pickup opportunities do

744
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 11: you see as a result.

745
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 13: Well, I think this bill it really defines where Republicans

746
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 13: are and this bill and their vote on this bill

747
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 13: is going to be a huge reason we take back

748
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 13: the majority in the House of Representatives. The American or

749
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 13: people reject the bill. But in district after district, we

750
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,720
Speaker 13: have thirty five districts where we're on offense across the country.

751
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 13: In those thirty five districts, people in these communities will

752
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 13: lose healthcare. See healthcare costs go up, See energy costs

753
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 13: go up, see food prices go up. Republicans promise they

754
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 13: were going to lower costs on day one. It's the

755
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 13: number one issue for families across the country. They promised

756
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 13: they were going to lower costs. That's a broken promise.

757
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 13: This big ugly bill is also a big broken promise.

758
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 13: So we're gonna hold them on. So is that for

759
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 13: that across the country?

760
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 11: Is that potentially thirty five seats? Then, Congresswoman, do you

761
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:09,399
Speaker 11: think it could be.

762
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 13: That Numbhere we have thirty five seats. We're in play

763
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 13: across the country where recruiting great candidates, folks are going

764
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 13: to actually stand up for their communities, who are going

765
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 13: to really be voices for their communities, talk about the

766
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 13: issues that matter, and who actually want to come to Washington,

767
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 13: DC to govern four communities, not be a blindly loyal

768
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:31,280
Speaker 13: vote for Donald Trump.

769
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 2: You've mentioned the number of people who could potentially lose

770
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 2: health coverage, and I think seventeen million is the number

771
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 2: that we've been hearing a congresswoman that you mentioned as well.

772
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 2: There's a new survey from Tony Fabrizio's group commissioned by

773
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 2: One Nation that found two thirds of voters agree there

774
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 2: is waste, fraud, and abuse in Medicaid.

775
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 3: How do you message to them.

776
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 13: We know that families across the country depend on Medicaid,

777
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 13: our rural hospitals on Medicaid. Look across the board. This

778
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 13: has nothing to do with strengthening Medicaid. What Republicans are

779
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 13: trying to do is rip it apart, a trillion dollars,

780
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 13: rip it apart, Rip apart the affordable care accessidies that

781
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,439
Speaker 13: are out there, seventeen million people losing healthcare, but also

782
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 13: rural hospitals closing across the country, nursing homes. All of

783
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 13: these are things that are supported through Medicaid that are

784
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 13: critically important to all of our communities. And healthcare costs

785
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 13: will go up for everyone in the country because even

786
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 13: if you have coverage, premiums are going to go up.

787
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 13: When more and more people are using the emergency room

788
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 13: as their primary care. We know we've seen before how

789
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 13: damaging that is. They're walking us down that path again

790
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 13: now and the American people know that.

791
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 11: Congressman, I know you need to run back to the

792
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 11: floor so very quickly. Here Elon Musk this week has

793
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,399
Speaker 11: threatened to fund primary challenges of Republicans who vote for

794
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 11: this bill, but it also has threatened to start a

795
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 11: new third America Party. Does Elon Musk pose a potential

796
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 11: gift for Democrats if he's going to fund challengers to

797
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 11: Republicans or potentially a risk if he actually wants to

798
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 11: fund a third party?

799
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 13: Well, I think Elon Musk called this bill discussing abomination.

800
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 13: That's an app description. We all should be fighting to

801
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 13: prevent this bill from moving forward, but making sure we

802
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 13: have great representatives across the country. The American people are

803
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 13: with us on this. We're on offense, and this vote

804
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 13: is going to cost Republicans the majority in twenty twenty six.

805
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 3: Congresswoman, it's great to have you back.

806
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 2: She is chairwoman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, Susan

807
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 2: Delbenny of Washington. Remarkable to hear her way in on

808
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 2: this kale as we try to get a sense of

809
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 2: what Democrats want to do, likely in the aftermath of

810
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 2: this vote, knowing that they can't impact this legislation in

811
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 2: the meantime, I want to bring in Rick Davis, Bloomberg

812
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 2: Politics contributor and Republicans strategist for his view on this,

813
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 2: Rick is Susan del Bennet. Correct, do Democrats win the

814
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 2: midterms because of this bill?

815
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 8: You know, the midterms are usually bad for the party

816
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 8: in power anyway, regardless of what kind of legislation was passed.

817
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 8: But early in this program we heard from Jim Messina

818
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 8: talking about twenty ten, the cycle after they passed ACA

819
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 8: and was very controversial at the time, very similar to

820
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 8: this bill in some respects, and they lost fifty three seats.

821
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 8: That was the largest gain by Republicans since the nineteen thirties.

822
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 8: And so if you start looking at parallels, it could

823
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 8: be a really horrific year for Republicans if it looks

824
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 8: like ten reincarnated.

825
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 11: Does that apply to the Senate as well? Rick, We're

826
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 11: at the very least we know North Carolina. Maybe more

827
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 11: of a live question now that Tom Tillis has decided

828
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:51,280
Speaker 11: he's not seeking re election.

829
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 8: Yeah, the Senate has been able to avoid the sort

830
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 8: of party in power losses that had and historic for

831
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 8: the House of Representatives. That being said, as you point out, Kayley,

832
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 8: I mean like this is an interesting year because we

833
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,760
Speaker 8: have some retirements and some close seats that could actually

834
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,879
Speaker 8: make a bad year look even worse than the United

835
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 8: States Senate. So I think nobody's taken anything for granted

836
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 8: right now in the United States Senate. But there are

837
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 8: seats like in Texas and in North Carolina, and certainly

838
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 8: Susan Collins perennially is at risk in Maine. These are

839
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 8: seats that are going to have to be really, really

840
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 8: harshly defended. But the key is that the Republicans step

841
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 8: out from this week when they do pass this bill

842
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 8: and sign it in a law, and actually try to

843
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 8: sell it in a way that, as Tony Fabrizio pointed out,

844
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 8: there are things that people like in this bill, but

845
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 8: they got to sell it.

846
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcasts. Catch

847
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm e's durn

848
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,439
Speaker 1: on Apple Cockley and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App.

849
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa. From our

850
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:02,800
Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just Say played Bloomberg eleven thirty.

851
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 2: We talked politics in Washington with a lot of question

852
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 2: marks over the Capitol right now, and I suspect over

853
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 2: the White House as well, with members of the House

854
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 2: Freedom Caucus meeting today with President Trump and a series

855
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 2: of procedural votes that are underway right now in the House.

856
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:22,359
Speaker 2: They are preparing to vote. Republicans hoping to vote on

857
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 2: the floor on President Trump's big, beautiful bill that's coming

858
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 2: back from the Senate. But there are changes to this bill, Kaylee,

859
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 2: that a lot of members of the Republican conference are

860
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 2: uncomfortable with. It's kind of like we're just relitigating this

861
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 2: entire debate, remembering that the Moderates were concerned about spending cuts,

862
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 2: cuts to medicaid. House Freedom Caucus wanting to see lower

863
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,320
Speaker 2: debt and deficits lower spending. These are the same lawmakers

864
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 2: who are hashing this out for.

865
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 11: A second time, yeah, knowing they barely sorted out their

866
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 11: differences the first time when it passed the House. Initially

867
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 11: it was on a margin of a single vote, squeaker,

868
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,240
Speaker 11: and then it went back to the Senate it changed.

869
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 11: And now the House Freedom Caucus, especially especially as Super,

870
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 11: willing to just take what the Senate gave them and

871
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 11: give it a thumbs up. That's what we're hearing from

872
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 11: the likes of Congressman Ship Roy, who has suggested that

873
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 11: it shouldn't be taken or leave it, that the House

874
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 11: could change it until the Senate take it or leave it.

875
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 2: Well, and then we remind ourselves this is a self

876
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 2: imposed July Foard deadline. We spoke earlier with Congressman Greg

877
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 2: Murphy who saw no problem in letting this go another

878
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 2: week or so that would allow for changes to be made,

879
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 2: it to go back to the Senate Schoolhouse rock eventually

880
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 2: the President signs the bill.

881
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 11: So let's get the latest read now from inside the

882
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,240
Speaker 11: Republican conference and turn to Congressman Jim Jordan, the Republican

883
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 11: from Ohio and also chair of the House Judiciary Committee,

884
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 11: is live with us on Bloomberg TV and Radio.

885
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 10: Congressman, thank you so.

886
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 11: Much for your time, knowing you're going to be running

887
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 11: to the floor shortly to continue these votes. But as

888
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 11: you see it right now, does the rule have the

889
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:45,959
Speaker 11: votes to pass.

890
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:47,359
Speaker 4: Now?

891
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 10: And it sounds like we're still working on that connection.

892
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 11: But if you've asked, We've asked this question to a

893
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 11: number of lawmakers as of our colleagues on the Hill today,

894
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 11: and at least many of them are suggesting that no,

895
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 11: the answer the rules may not time they.

896
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 2: Do not, and in that world it could go back

897
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 2: to the Rules committee, which could be another fraud conversation.

898
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 3: They went for hours.

899
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 2: Arguing about this yesterday Kyley and late into the night.

900
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,760
Speaker 2: Whether this can get to the floor otherwise remains a question.

901
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 2: We also don't know if he has the votes. If

902
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 2: you can't pass the rule, you might not be able

903
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 2: to pass the bills. So these procedural votes tell us

904
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 2: a lot more about what could happen with the final products.

905
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 2: If that's the case, it's hard to imagine that lawmakers

906
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 2: get home though leadership has been clear, the President's been clear,

907
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 2: you're working through the holiday well, and.

908
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 11: The President probably reiterated that once again when he met

909
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 11: with members of Congress and the House Freedom Gaga specifically

910
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 11: at the White House. The head honcho has gotten involved.

911
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 11: The question is is his arm twisting actually adequate to

912
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 11: get these current.

913
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 10: Holdouts in line.

914
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 11: So I believe we have our connection established with Congressman

915
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 11: Jim Jordan, now again Republican from Ohio, chair of the

916
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,800
Speaker 11: House Judiciary Committee, here with us on balance of power. Congressman,

917
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,760
Speaker 11: is this rule vote about to fail shortly?

918
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 4: Yeah?

919
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 14: I hope it passes. We've got the rule vote coming up,

920
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 14: and I hope it passes. I think it will, and frankly,

921
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 14: I think it should because this is a good piece

922
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 14: of legislation. I always say, you know, it's a good

923
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 14: piece of legislation because the Democrats hated so much. They

924
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 14: don't like it, because it actually empowers families by, you know,

925
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 14: letting them keep more of their money, giving them school choice,

926
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,680
Speaker 14: making sure our border stays secure, and making able bodied

927
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 14: people in our welfare system now have to work if

928
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 14: they're going to get your tax dollar. So I think

929
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:30,439
Speaker 14: it just I think it's a good bill.

930
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:31,280
Speaker 3: I hope it passes.

931
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 2: I know that congressmen obviously Democrats tell us that they

932
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 2: hate the bill, and they've not been part of this process.

933
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 2: But what is your message to Republicans who are on

934
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,880
Speaker 2: the fence. We spoke earlier with Congressman Greg Murphy, for instance,

935
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 2: he's really worried about changes to Medicaid having a detrimental

936
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 2: impacts on some low income people in his districts in

937
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 2: North Carolina. There are others like him, This needs to

938
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 2: be worked out in the family. What do you tell

939
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,399
Speaker 2: your colleague from North Carolina in a moment like.

940
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 14: This, Yeah, I mean, look, it was a fifty to

941
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 14: fifty vote in the Senate, the Vice President had to

942
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 14: come break the tie. I don't know how many other

943
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 14: changes we can make with that kind of a balance.

944
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 14: It seems to me we're there and it's time to

945
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 14: pass this legislation. The other thing I know is politics

946
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 14: is a lot like athletics, a lot like sport. Momentum matters,

947
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 14: and right now all the momentum is on our side.

948
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:26,720
Speaker 14: I mean, We've got a secure border that's taking place

949
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 14: under President Trump's leadership. We had the success successful operation,

950
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 14: and Iran president goes to the NATO summit and gets

951
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 14: all the NATO countries do anty up more money five

952
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 14: percent for our defense over there. I mean, we're on

953
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,839
Speaker 14: a good roll, and now we're gonna stop this bill

954
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 14: with such a small majority of both the House and

955
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,880
Speaker 14: the Senate, seems to me it's now time to pass it, particularly,

956
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 14: as I pointed out, because it does the things that

957
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 14: actually empower families. I think it's a good bill. Let's

958
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 14: get it done. Let's move on to the next type.

959
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 11: Well, President Trump certainly would like to see this done,

960
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 11: like to see it done in the next few days. Congressmen,

961
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 11: do you see anything that the President could promise your

962
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 11: colleagues who are not yet hard. Yes, is on this

963
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 11: bill that could assuage them. Aside from changing the legislation itself,

964
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:13,399
Speaker 11: I think you.

965
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,359
Speaker 14: Just point out what I just talked about, talk about

966
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 14: how good the bill is, the key things in it.

967
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 11: I mean again, pursuing another reconciliation package or executive.

968
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 10: Orders to address some of their concerns.

969
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 14: That all that's fine, and we can get to that

970
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 14: in the future. But I think you focus on what's

971
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 14: in this Like any one single item in this bill,

972
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,439
Speaker 14: if you pulled it out and voted as a standalone bill,

973
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 14: you'd vote for it. I mean, are we for cutting taxes,

974
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:39,359
Speaker 14: making sure taxes don't go up on the families who

975
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 14: represent Yes. Are you saying no tax on tips? We

976
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 14: campaigned on that. Yes, we're for that. Does it make

977
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 14: sense for people who are able body who are getting

978
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 14: your tax money in our welfare system? Does it make

979
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 14: sense that they now have to work? There's a work

980
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 14: requirement for able body people. Yes, that makes sense. Standalone,

981
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 14: you would vote for that all these items. Would you

982
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 14: vote for a traditional resources to make sure our borders

983
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 14: stays secure after what we went through under Joe Biden?

984
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 14: Of course you'd vote for that. So, but you put

985
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 14: them all together in some big bill and some people

986
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 14: are like, well, we didn't cut it up spending. I agree,

987
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 14: but it's still a good piece of legislation with all

988
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 14: those things in it. I think you vote for it

989
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 14: because it's consistent with what we told the voters we

990
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 14: were going to do when they put us in office

991
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:20,800
Speaker 14: on November fifth.

992
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,879
Speaker 2: I have to admit, Congressman, I still find it hard

993
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 2: to believe that many Republicans are going to vote no

994
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 2: and have at tax hike hanging around their next when

995
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 2: they go to run for reelection.

996
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:32,720
Speaker 3: I guess to your point.

997
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 2: We heard from the former Speaker of the House, Kevin

998
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 2: McCarthy was with us this morning on Bloomberg's surveillance, speaking

999
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 2: specifically to the holdouts.

1000
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 3: On the Freedom Caucus.

1001
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 2: And you know who I'm talking about, the Chip Royce

1002
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 2: Ralph Normans of the world who say that they are

1003
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 2: a no and they want to send the bill back

1004
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 2: to the Senate with more changes.

1005
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 3: Here's what he told us.

1006
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 15: What they want to do is get the attention they

1007
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 15: always crave. So they talk about that now. But how

1008
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 15: many times can you cry wolf and say you're not

1009
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 15: going to vote for something and in twenty four hours,

1010
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 15: vote for it. They have done this numerous times. They

1011
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 15: want the president's attention. They say this so they can

1012
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 15: go down to the Oval Office and see the president,

1013
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 15: then go back home and say they saw the president.

1014
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 3: Is that how you see this? Congressman.

1015
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 2: Everybody's a big shot until it's time to actually vote

1016
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:16,840
Speaker 2: on the floor.

1017
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 14: No, I mean, I think they have genuine concerns. I

1018
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 14: just think, as I pointed out, this is overall a

1019
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 14: good piece of legislation and we should support it. It

1020
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 14: is I always say, we make the job way too complicated.

1021
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 14: The job's pretty simple. What'd you tell the voters you

1022
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:34,360
Speaker 14: were going to do when you put your name on

1023
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 14: the ballot and you got elected, Go do what you

1024
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 14: told them you were going to do. And we said,

1025
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 14: we're going to make sure your taxes don't go up,

1026
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 14: we're going to work for work requirements, We're for all

1027
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 14: those things that are in this legislation. So they want

1028
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 14: additional cuts. I get it. We got huge deficits. We're

1029
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 14: running on an annual basis. We've now piled up thirty

1030
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 14: seven trillion dollars in debt. That's a problem.

1031
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 3: I get that.

1032
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 14: I wish we had cut more, but we got a

1033
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 14: handful of seats that we could give us the majority

1034
00:48:58,040 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 14: in the House. They got a three seat majority in

1035
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 14: the Senate, but it's as tight as it gets, so

1036
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 14: you have to kind of figure out how we get

1037
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:07,919
Speaker 14: the votes moderates and conservatives working together. I think we've

1038
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 14: done that, and by the fact that it was fifty

1039
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 14: to fifty in the Senate, I just feel like, Okay,

1040
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 14: there's no more wiggle room.

1041
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 12: It was fifty to fifty.

1042
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 14: We're gonna have to pass this thing and then look

1043
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 14: for other opportunities down the road to do some additional

1044
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 14: things relative to the deficits.

1045
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 10: And the debt.

1046
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:29,480
Speaker 11: Well, sir, as we just heard from former Speaker Kevin McCarthy.

1047
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 11: We remember how his speakership ended, and it was with

1048
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 11: his own conference upset about some of his choices around

1049
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:38,879
Speaker 11: fiscal matters. Do you see any risk to Mike Johnson's

1050
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 11: job as a result of what happens in the coming days.

1051
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 4: No.

1052
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 14: I think the focus is on doing what we told

1053
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 14: the voters were going to do. I think what happened

1054
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 14: to Kevin was wrong, but I don't see any concern

1055
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 14: with Speaker Johnson. I think Mike has done a good

1056
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 14: job and navigated through this as best as anyone could

1057
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 14: with again a small majority in the House and a

1058
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 14: small majority in the Senate. But this is it's time

1059
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 14: to pay in my judgment, and I hope it happens today.

1060
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,240
Speaker 2: Well, we do understand where you are, and I wonder

1061
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 2: how likely that is to happen. Congressman, just give us

1062
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:10,879
Speaker 2: the state of play. We've got a couple procedural votes here.

1063
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 2: You need to pass a rule Yeah. Do you think

1064
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 2: this gets to the floor tonight? Are you going to

1065
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:18,359
Speaker 2: find yourself here cooking hamburger on the fourth of July

1066
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:19,440
Speaker 2: getting ready to vote.

1067
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 14: We're going to know, and I think we're going to

1068
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 14: know in the next hour. The rule boat's the key vote.

1069
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:24,799
Speaker 14: If we can pass the rule bote, then I think

1070
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 14: we're going to pass it on the floor. If we

1071
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 14: don't pass the rule vote, then you know, we'll have

1072
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 14: to see. But I got to head to the floor

1073
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 14: right now and vote for the I think we're on

1074
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 14: the previous question, and then there's an amendment and then

1075
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 14: there's the rule vote. So we got three votes that

1076
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 14: are happening on the floor. Now I got to head

1077
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:38,439
Speaker 14: to the floor and vote. But if we get past

1078
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 14: the rule, I think we're going to be fine, okay,

1079
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 14: and we'll.

1080
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 11: Let you, mister chairman, go to the floor in vote.

1081
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 11: Just one more question for you. As the head of

1082
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 11: the FHFA, Bill Poulti today suggested that Congress should investigate

1083
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 11: the Chair of the Federal Reserve, Jerome Powell, in part

1084
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 11: for what he said was recent testimony to the Senate

1085
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 11: about the Central Banks planned renovations to its headquarters.

1086
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 10: Do you intend to open such an investigation.

1087
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 14: Where everything's on the table. We haven't discussed that specifically.

1088
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 14: We'll take a look at that. You know, part of

1089
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 14: our constitutional duties to do oversight of the executive branch,

1090
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 14: and our committee we do over sight of the judicial

1091
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 14: branch as well, so we'll take a look at all that.

1092
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,439
Speaker 14: But yeah, all thesit's an important part of our again,

1093
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 14: constitutional responsibilities. Members of the United States Congress, don't let us.

1094
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:29,280
Speaker 3: Make you late for work. Congressman Jim Jordan, Republican from Ohio.

1095
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 2: He chairs the House Judiciary Committee, now headed back to

1096
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 2: the floor to take part in the procedural votes that

1097
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:36,720
Speaker 2: will lead to the rule vote.

1098
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:37,759
Speaker 3: This is going to be the big one.

1099
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 2: Kayale's Jim Jordan just mentioned that's going to give us

1100
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 2: a good sense of where we stand here, likely in

1101
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 2: the next hour or so, with a floor vote for

1102
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 2: the so called big beautiful Bill to follow that could

1103
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 2: presumably happen tonight, tomorrow, and I guess theoretically on the

1104
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 2: fourth of July.

1105
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 3: Unless they're going to be here for the weekend, we'll

1106
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 3: find out.

1107
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make

1108
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,239
Speaker 2: sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify,

1109
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:05,919
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find

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00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, d C.

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00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 3: At noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.