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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we talk

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. It's Wednesday, June fourth, and

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Speaker 2: we have a stacked night of headlines. I'm so happy

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Speaker 2: you're here. Listen the search for the Madeline McCain. It's

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Speaker 2: been reopened and it's possible that her family may find

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Speaker 2: some justice. Luigi Mangioni, we haven't talked much about him.

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Speaker 2: He has some major requests from behind bars and Gabby

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Speaker 2: Patito's mom. She recently gave a shocking interview, and we're

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Speaker 2: going to cover why this is getting so much attention.

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Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I head U KAT Studios, where

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Speaker 2: we make true crime podcasts and documentaries, and I get

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Speaker 2: to do that with producer and host Courtney Armstrong and crime.

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Speaker 2: I'm analyst Body Move in the best company imaginable.

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Speaker 3: So, ladies, where where should we begin with this?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 4: I can talk about Madeline McCann because I literally leapt

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Speaker 4: out of my chair when this news broke and I

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Speaker 4: had the phone in my hands and I jumped up. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: you know, you see her name in the headlines and

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Speaker 4: it's you know, shocking. So for those that don't know

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Speaker 4: anything about the Madeleine McCann story, let me just kind

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Speaker 4: of start there. So Madeline was a little girl. She

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Speaker 4: and her family, her Lovely Flame family, were vacationing in Portugal.

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Speaker 4: In Portugal, the Algarve is a really like common, really

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Speaker 4: common destination for those that live in Europe, like a

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Speaker 4: lot of it's not like uncommon to go to Algarve

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Speaker 4: in Portugal. Well, they were vacationing in from the United

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Speaker 4: Kingdom with her parents, Kate and Jerry McCann, and her

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Speaker 4: two year old, twin siblings and a group of family friends.

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Speaker 4: And it would be often, you know that they would

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Speaker 4: they would put the kids to bed and kind of

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Speaker 4: go to like the neighborhood little russ where you can

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Speaker 4: literally see the building where they were staying. So it

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Speaker 4: felt very safe, and they had done this numerous times.

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Speaker 4: So they went to go eat and the kids fell

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Speaker 4: asleep about eleven thirty. They went to go eat. They

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Speaker 4: were on the ground level and you know, while her

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Speaker 4: parents dined with friends and family every you know, ten

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Speaker 4: twenty fifteen minutes, they would go check on the kids. Well,

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Speaker 4: on one of the check ins that they went to

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Speaker 4: go check in on the kids, they opened the door

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Speaker 4: and poor Maddie Madeleine is missing, and she's the only

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Speaker 4: one missing her. The other kids were not missing. It

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Speaker 4: really kind of blew up from there. There was a

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Speaker 4: national manhunt for Madeline. The Portuguese National Police. They're you know,

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Speaker 4: desperate to find her because you know, the Algarve is

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Speaker 4: known to be a safe tourist area for all these

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Speaker 4: Europeans very s and the worst thing that can happen is,

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Speaker 4: you know, a little girl goes missing. I mean, it's

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Speaker 4: just it's awful.

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Speaker 2: And they were on spring break. They were with like

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Speaker 2: seven other families. You know, you can kind of picture it.

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Speaker 2: It's like a resort. It was very almost enclosed, all right.

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Speaker 2: So it wasn't like they were gallivanting down on main

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Speaker 2: street and their kids were asleep and left alone, because

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Speaker 2: they got kind of some bad press for that. It

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Speaker 2: was also a different time, but they were still within

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Speaker 2: the within eyes distance from where the kids were resting.

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Speaker 5: They were two hundred feet away. I mean, that's that's

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Speaker 5: a very short amount of space and the door was

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Speaker 5: unlocked for I guess that are a worse now, but.

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Speaker 4: Right, right, So what the news is, though, the news is,

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Speaker 4: and if you also don't know, there is a suspect,

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Speaker 4: and there's been a suspect for many years. His name

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Speaker 4: is Christian Bruckner and he's a German citizen who lived

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Speaker 4: in Portugal at the time and Neilgarve. And he was

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Speaker 4: kind of like I would say, a handyman kind of person,

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Speaker 4: like he would work odd jobs and he kind of

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Speaker 4: lived he couchsurfed a lot, and he lived in like

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Speaker 4: a camper. And he's the top suspect because he made

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Speaker 4: like a kind of like startling confession to an informant

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Speaker 4: who's identity has been protected by the German police and

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Speaker 4: saying that you know, it's it's pretty terrible. He said,

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Speaker 4: she didn't even scream, is what he said. And so

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Speaker 4: he's been the top suspect. And he's also currently serving

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Speaker 4: time in Germany for a completely separate assault on an

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Speaker 4: elderly woman, a rape charge.

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Speaker 2: He raped an elderly woman. He ranked a serving time

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Speaker 2: behind bars for that crime.

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Speaker 4: Right, so in twenty sixteen, and you have to You

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Speaker 4: have to understand, twenty sixteen is nine years after she disappeared.

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Speaker 4: It's many, many years. They searched Christian Bruckner's home in

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Speaker 4: Germany and they found like a cash of thumb drives

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Speaker 4: buried under under his dog. And on these thumb drives.

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Speaker 4: We don't know everything, right, we don't know everything that's

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Speaker 4: on these thumb drives, but on these thumb drives were

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Speaker 4: terrible conversations, like horrific conversations he was having on Skype

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Speaker 4: and he was, you know, kind of admit pretty terrible

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Speaker 4: things that he wanted to do to little girls, and

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Speaker 4: he wanted to It's pretty disgusting.

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Speaker 3: It's not what he's disgusting.

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Speaker 2: And they also found swimsuits, like seventy five swimsuits alleged

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Speaker 2: that were for toddlers. So not to get too graphic

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Speaker 2: and sad, but you know, this guy seems like a

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Speaker 2: real sicko.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: So now that you know who Christian is and like

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Speaker 4: where he was during the time Madeline went missing, while

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Speaker 4: police have basically said that his phone was kind of

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Speaker 4: in that area when Madeline went missing, and you know,

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Speaker 4: of course, like I said earlier, he was living there

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Speaker 4: at the time. He lived there on and off for

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Speaker 4: like ten years. Well, so the police for whatever, and

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Speaker 4: we don't know why. But as of yesterday, twenty five

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Speaker 4: national Portuguese policemen along with the German police are searching.

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Speaker 4: They're they're searching an area. They're focusing on an area

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Speaker 4: in which he lived, this cottage area in which it

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Speaker 4: was his primary residence. So again we don't know why,

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Speaker 4: though they haven't given us the public any indication on

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Speaker 4: what they've learned. But I mean, if you think about it,

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Speaker 4: you know, he's this man has been in prison for

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Speaker 4: a couple of years. There has to be some kind

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Speaker 4: of audible confession of some kind that they've run across,

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Speaker 4: or maybe he said he dumped her body somewhere, you know, somewhere.

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Speaker 3: We're only things, not body.

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Speaker 5: My thought is with the investigation that there must be

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Speaker 5: something that has to do potentially with underground or a

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Speaker 5: hint of that, right, because a lot of the investigative

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Speaker 5: materials that they're bringing sort of go down around into

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Speaker 5: the ground where like wells and pipes would be in

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Speaker 5: the infrastructure. So that's a very big part of this investigation.

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Speaker 2: Right, and keep in mind it's eighteen years, right, so

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Speaker 2: you know, a real hats off to law enforcement. By

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Speaker 2: the way, this was like the most covered case of

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Speaker 2: a missing person in the world, right, it got coverage for.

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Speaker 3: So so long.

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Speaker 2: We've all been really waiting. But it's been quiet for

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Speaker 2: a long time now. So to have this be reopened again,

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Speaker 2: there must be something very major, substantial exactly.

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Speaker 5: I agree also, and thankfully we've moved past this. But

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Speaker 5: do you remember how big an investigation happened around the

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Speaker 5: poor parents. Yes, yeah, I was just really under a suspicion.

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Speaker 5: I mean, they really went through it, and look, they

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Speaker 5: were the target.

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Speaker 3: Initially.

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Speaker 2: The initial thought was that they there was an accident

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Speaker 2: or something and their daughter.

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Speaker 3: Died sleeping medication or something.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, and they covered it up. And look, they stayed

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Speaker 2: together to this day. You know, both mom and dad

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Speaker 2: were renowned, really well respected physicians.

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Speaker 3: Dad's a cardiologists.

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Speaker 2: You know, these are very smart, elegant humans and can

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Speaker 2: you imagine, like you, all of the eyes of the

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Speaker 2: world are on you. But they stuck together and you know,

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Speaker 2: remain married to this day, and you know, frankly remain hopeful.

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Speaker 3: They criticized.

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Speaker 4: They were criticized, it really heavily, specifically by American press.

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Speaker 4: I you know, of course that's all I've got access to.

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Speaker 4: I don't really have access to the UK press at

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Speaker 4: the time in two thousand and seven, right, but they

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Speaker 4: were really criticized for not being like not crying enough,

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Speaker 4: crying too much, not being emotional, being too emotional, like

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Speaker 4: they could not win for losing, you know. I mean,

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Speaker 4: imagine you've just lost your daughter, one of one of

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Speaker 4: your children, and now on top of everything, you're being

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Speaker 4: criticized by people who really have no idea what is

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Speaker 4: going on. It's got to be just terrible. And I

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Speaker 4: really they really do seem like lovely people, and I

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Speaker 4: really do hope that they get some answers.

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Speaker 3: I truly do.

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Speaker 2: It does kind of have a similar thing to you know,

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Speaker 2: infamous cases like Jean Benet Ramsey, right, where a mom

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Speaker 2: and dad were targeted for so so long, and even

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Speaker 2: now today that's up for discussion again, right, because there's

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Speaker 2: been new information.

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Speaker 3: It's pretty astounding.

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Speaker 2: Like she had that very Madelin McCain had that iconic picture, right,

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Speaker 2: the little blonde hair with the bangs and the eye defect. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: she had two different color eyes, right, there was a

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Speaker 2: pair or a speckle in her pupil. If I remember

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Speaker 2: it looked.

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Speaker 5: Like a birthmark.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's but it's it's a real identifier, right,

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Speaker 2: And I think from that case, a lot of things

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Speaker 2: have changed, just you know, in the world, how we

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Speaker 2: see vacations for that matter. You know, yes, they had

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Speaker 2: the doors open, and you know that was a different time, right.

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Speaker 2: And you know European lifestyle, everyone's sort of a group effort.

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Speaker 2: There's community. It's a lovely elegant resort. You know, this

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Speaker 2: kind of shaped things for all of us obviously, because.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you leave, you have to lock your doors.

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Speaker 2: Now, this type of thing, you know, really came under

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Speaker 2: a lot of consideration. So our hope is that they

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Speaker 2: definitely find some answers.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, And there's a couple of things I

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Speaker 4: wanted to talk about with Christian Bruckner, the suspect, just

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Speaker 4: to give people an idea of like why the German police.

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Speaker 4: The German police basically have said that they have concrete

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Speaker 4: evidence that he's responsible, which is astounding to me. In

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Speaker 4: June of twenty twenty, that's when they said that German

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Speaker 4: prosecutors stated they have Kong and I'm using quotes concrete

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Speaker 4: evidence that Christian Bruckner killed Madeline. You know, at the time,

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Speaker 4: he was, you know, living there. On the night of

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Speaker 4: her disappearance, his phone received a thirty minute call near

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Speaker 4: the resort at the same time.

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Speaker 3: She vanished, what does that mean? So well, what does

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Speaker 3: that mean?

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Speaker 2: I read that as well when I was doing research,

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Speaker 2: and I don't know what that implied.

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Speaker 4: He he was dating a woman at the time, and

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Speaker 4: she's a British woman who had been his girlfriend, you know,

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Speaker 4: for some time. She said that on the night before

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Speaker 4: Madeleine's abduction, he told her, I have a job to

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Speaker 4: do in Praya Deluze tomorrow. That's the resort they lived,

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Speaker 4: where they were at. I have the job to do

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Speaker 4: in Praya de Louze tomorrow. It's a horrible job, but

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Speaker 4: it's something I have to do and it will change

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Speaker 4: my life. You won't be seeing me for a while.

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Speaker 4: That is what his girlfriend says. He said the night

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Speaker 4: before Madeleine went missing. So is it a job? Did

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Speaker 4: he get her for somebody?

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, Oh my god, goodness. I can't even

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Speaker 2: think about it. It makes me crazy, I know, I know,

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Speaker 2: it's nausey. So and even no matter what the You know,

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Speaker 2: we've been told this from family members that we've interviewed

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Speaker 2: of missing kids, like you want answers, right, you can't

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Speaker 2: eat a meal because you feel like you should be

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Speaker 2: out searching. Nothing makes sense until you have at least

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Speaker 2: some closure one way or the other.

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Speaker 3: So our fingers are.

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Speaker 4: Crossed, right, right, Well, hopefully we'll get answers now. The

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Speaker 4: investigators said that the searches should conclude by Friday of

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Speaker 4: this week, so in a couple of days now, you know,

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Speaker 4: it might be actually Thursday night for us, you know,

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Speaker 4: when these these searches end. But I'm hoping they find

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Speaker 4: something before then. As Courtney mentioned, they brought ground penetrating

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Speaker 4: radar and all kinds of machinery to perform these searches,

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Speaker 4: so they're looking in a specific spot.

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Speaker 6: Wow.

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Speaker 3: Wow, it's pretty frightening.

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Speaker 4: But you know, we'll see hopefully, hopefully they'll they'll find

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Speaker 4: something and they can lay poor Matty to rest in

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Speaker 4: her home country with her family, and hopefully we can

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Speaker 4: put this, you know behind us. In this Chris Bruckner

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Speaker 4: person can can get a trial. Yes, and yeah, well

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Speaker 4: know what happened with poor Mattie. It's been eighteen years in.

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Speaker 5: The eleven o'clock hour, we'll be discussing an alleged Santa

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Speaker 5: Anna serial cat killer was evaded law enforcement for two weeks.

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Speaker 5: Join the conversation eight eight eight thirty one crime we

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Speaker 5: want to hear from you keep it here. On True

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Speaker 5: Crime tonight.

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Speaker 2: There was this very interesting Gabby Patito interview that her

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Speaker 2: mom gave regarding her daughter's passing, and it's it's pretty

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Speaker 2: shocking some of these things that she's bringing to the surface.

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Speaker 2: And also a serial cat killer, which obviously is right

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Speaker 2: up Body's alley. You know, if you don't know this already,

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Speaker 2: Body was the star of the Emmy Award winning Don't

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Speaker 2: f with Cats, which you can always catch on Netflix,

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Speaker 2: so obviously she has plenty to say on the topic.

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Speaker 2: And then Luigi Mangione, is it Mangione or MENGIONI If.

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Speaker 5: You say Mangione, I say MANGIONI.

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Speaker 2: There you go. You know, interesting thing about his little

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Speaker 2: time behind bars. You know, he's being housed at the

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Speaker 2: same facility as Diddy and Sam Bankman.

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Speaker 3: That's right, Federal Crimes. That's a Federal crime cop in place.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean talk about it like I don't know,

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Speaker 2: is it's also the same place where Epstein died. I

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Speaker 2: think he was kept there for a moment, but no,

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Speaker 2: I think there is a broken facility. I could be

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Speaker 2: wrong about that. So, you know, court, should we start

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Speaker 2: with Luigi?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely so. Just yesterday, the alleged United Healthcare CEO killer,

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Speaker 5: Luigi Mangioni, his defense team filed emotion and in this

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Speaker 5: motion they are urging the New York judge to allow

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Speaker 5: Mangioni to appear with no handcuffs or bulletproof vest.

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Speaker 2: Like in street clothes. Is that the idea that they

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Speaker 2: want him wearing a.

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Speaker 5: Suit, just just not shackled, just not with the vest.

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Speaker 4: And because he's already wearing street clothes, he's already wearing

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Speaker 4: like everything he wears is scrutinized too, already, like he's

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Speaker 4: wearing green. This means that like people are going crazy

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Speaker 4: over things that he's wearing.

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Speaker 2: He did have that strange thing with his lawyer where

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Speaker 2: they were both dressed identical.

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Speaker 3: That was a weird thing with the red maroon.

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Speaker 2: Yeah sweaters and the blouse underneath. And yeah, if you're

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Speaker 2: not familiar with this case, I'm sure you are now

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Speaker 2: that we're talking about it, because it was everywhere. Luigi

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Speaker 2: Maanngione was a twenty six year old who shot and

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Speaker 2: killed right and planned site the CEO healthcare executive Brian Thompson,

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Speaker 2: and has since been brought into custody and is awaiting

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Speaker 2: his death sentenced trial. And is it for death, Yes,

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Speaker 2: it's exast sentence trial.

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Speaker 5: So it's interesting because he's facing eleven charges in New

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Speaker 5: York State. Now, New York State does not have the

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Speaker 5: death penalty. It was abolished. I think it was back

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Speaker 5: in maybe two thousand and No, two thousand and four

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Speaker 5: is when it was abolished. The last state execution was

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Speaker 5: actually back in nineteen sixty three.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 5: But he's also charged federally and that is where the

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Speaker 5: death penalty sentence potentially comes in if he's found guilty,

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Speaker 5: and the federal charges include murder through the death of

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Speaker 5: a firearm and some moving around instead.

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Speaker 3: He's that he's accused of printing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah it was a three D gun, right, And he

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Speaker 2: was also found with you know, a manifesto, And it's

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Speaker 2: not looking great for him, but obviously he does deserve

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Speaker 2: a fair trial. And you know, there was that huge

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Speaker 2: purp walk when he first was brought into custody.

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Speaker 3: Do you remember that.

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Speaker 2: It was like Succession the show on HBO. Right, the

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Speaker 2: helicopter landed and he was like, you know, they really

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Speaker 2: gave him a purp walk. Right, the mayor was there,

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Speaker 2: he was shackled and like the city of New York.

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Speaker 3: Was like behind them. It was iconic. Exactly, it was

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Speaker 3: like it it's exactly right.

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Speaker 2: And his lawyers, I don't really love that because again,

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Speaker 2: it's giving such a high profile perp that's not normally

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Speaker 2: how it goes down obviously, so is that performative? Are

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Speaker 2: the optics of that unfair to his defense? And I

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Speaker 2: guess that's what they're trying to get ahead of now.

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Speaker 6: Well.

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Speaker 5: I think also that the crime itself was so wild

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Speaker 5: to see on the streets of New York. So this happened,

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Speaker 5: and I know, for it's been a minute since he's

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Speaker 5: been in the news, but at the time, I feel

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Speaker 5: like almost everyone was glued to their screens. It was

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Speaker 5: back in December six forty five in the morning, just

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Speaker 5: walking around, people are walking to work, and we see

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Speaker 5: victim Brian Thompson, who often gets really lost in this.

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Speaker 5: He is the CEO of United Healthcare. He's the man

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Speaker 5: who lost his life. He was fifty years old, fathered

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Speaker 5: two teenage boys who, by all accounts he adored. He

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Speaker 5: was walking to work to attend a meeting and then

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Speaker 5: he was shot by a massed assailant on camera, and

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Speaker 5: the assailant then fled the scene on a bike.

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Speaker 3: What else is going on with Luigi?

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Speaker 2: Their Courtney, Well, you're right, Courtney, because the victim really

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Speaker 2: does get law in the sauce on this one. And

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Speaker 2: Brian Thompson, you know, again, this was a person that

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Speaker 2: has a very full life and was executed not okay,

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Speaker 2: obviously for all the obvious reasons. And also Luigi's a

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Speaker 2: very unexpected assailant, right, and he got so much attention,

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Speaker 2: and some of it I was a bit conflicted about.

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Speaker 2: Everyone was calling him the hot assassin, or that he

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Speaker 2: had a they were like Timothy Shalome lookalike contests because

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Speaker 2: air quotes. He's a handsome twenty six year old man

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Speaker 2: Ivy League graduate. You know, he went to penn University

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Speaker 2: of Pennsylvania, very prestigious, top of his class, you know,

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Speaker 2: really really upwardly, mobile, loving family, doesn't totally meet the

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Speaker 2: m O.

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Speaker 3: Very popular.

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Speaker 2: He had tons and tons of friends, so you know,

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Speaker 2: all of all of the media really kind of ate

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Speaker 2: up his his appearance because he was you know, air quotes, dreamy,

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Speaker 2: their words, not mine, and that was really strange, like

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Speaker 2: here somebody is being put to rest, their funeral is

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Speaker 2: happening for the Brian Thompson and his family, and meanwhile,

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Speaker 2: all the news is common mensing on how you know

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Speaker 2: Luigi should be freed and he's so handsome and he's

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Speaker 2: too pretty for prison is yeah.

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Speaker 5: I mean he was on I was looking today just

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Speaker 5: you know, researching around and reminding myself. There were snl

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Speaker 5: skits with him exactly a lot of the topic being he's,

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Speaker 5: you know, so good looking people couldn't get enough, but

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Speaker 5: he's He was also very well known as the delay, deny,

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Speaker 5: depose guy, and that's because those words were written on

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Speaker 5: this spent casings that came out of the cartridges of

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Speaker 5: the gun, and those words harken back to delay, denied, defend,

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Speaker 5: which is really well known phrase in the insurance industry

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Speaker 5: that when insurers try to push off to avoid paying claims. Right, So, Stephanie,

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Speaker 5: I think that's part of what it was, was not

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Speaker 5: just his looks, but sort of the Robin Hood mystique.

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Speaker 3: And that's so true, but it's also so bogus.

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Speaker 2: First of all, he didn't even have United Healthcare at

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Speaker 2: number one, number two and actually happened. Trust me, we

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Speaker 2: were all down the rabbit hole real time and social

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Speaker 2: media and looking through his social media, and we were

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Speaker 2: able to identify very quickly along with the you know,

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Speaker 2: other journalists, that he had a back injury. He had

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Speaker 2: had a back injury after college, who was living in

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Speaker 2: I think Honolulu, surfing accident and excruciating pain and had

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Speaker 2: had a very important surgery that left him in agony

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Speaker 2: to some extent. And you know that a little bit

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Speaker 2: tracks right. Maybe he was having issues with his healthcare

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Speaker 2: provider and that was making him amped and then some.

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Speaker 3: But he didn't even have that same insurance.

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Speaker 2: So even all this, you know, the casings and the

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Speaker 2: secret messaging and it al was a lot of nothing.

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Speaker 2: Think his manifesto was kind of a peter out, like

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Speaker 2: it starts strong and he has something to say, kind

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Speaker 2: of like there was no there's really no end game.

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Speaker 3: There's no big message. There really wasn't.

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Speaker 4: Well, he was really into the Uno Bomber, and I

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Speaker 4: was super into the Enobarmer. The manifest I was hooked

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Speaker 4: on that, and I still kind of oh yeah.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I informed on this one as much. Listen, deep level,

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Speaker 3: I know the top line.

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Speaker 4: If you guys ever want to go on vacation, I

395
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Speaker 4: can do a whole show on the nabomber. Okay, Like

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Speaker 4: the manifesto was, I was fascinated by how he got

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Speaker 4: caught b via his writings and what. Anyway, I digress,

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Speaker 4: but I think that revolutionized him a little bit, is

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Speaker 4: what I'm trying to get at. You know, if you

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Speaker 4: take the unibomber at face value, just on the manifesto

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Speaker 4: without him actually hurting anybody, the things that he said

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Speaker 4: in the manifesto were really interesting and kind of like revolutionary,

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Speaker 4: and if you are going through something traumatic, as in

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Speaker 4: Luigi with this back surgery, potentially I think that reading

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Speaker 4: that manifesto and getting in is into it as he

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Speaker 4: did could have revolutionized him a little bit and set

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Speaker 4: him off to target healthcare based on his experience and

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Speaker 4: targeting the head of the snake, which is basically United Healthcare.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 4: I think that's listen, this is just a theory. There's

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Speaker 4: no proof of this. This is body movements theory only.

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Speaker 4: But I think that that helped revolutionize him.

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Speaker 3: I really do.

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Speaker 5: I totally agree. I remember early days going down. As

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Speaker 5: Stephanie mentioned, his socials, but also his goodreads, where yeah,

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Speaker 5: certain books. It's very interesting and I think the revel is,

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Speaker 5: you know, his being revolutionized does hold water potentially in

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Speaker 5: his document, manifesto, whatever you want to call it. Part

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Speaker 5: of what was found on Mangion after the five day

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Speaker 5: manhunt when he was found at a McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 5: outside of New York. So it was only two hundred

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Speaker 5: and sixty two words. Part of it read quote. These

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Speaker 5: parasites simply had it coming. A reminder, the US has

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Speaker 5: the number one most expensive healthcare system in the world,

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Speaker 5: yet we rank roughly number forty two in life expectancy.

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Speaker 2: Okay, there's better ways to go about this messaging. And

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Speaker 2: by the way, absolutely he's twenty six years old. Can

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Speaker 2: you imagine his parents. They're a very prominent family in Baltimore.

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Speaker 2: He comes from, you know, tons of cousins. If you've

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Speaker 2: seen family photos, there's like so many cousins and you know,

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Speaker 2: loving family around him.

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Speaker 6: Him.

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Speaker 3: What a waste.

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Speaker 2: Now he's just going to waste in prison till the

435
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 2: end of days if convicted allegedly allegedly unbelievable.

436
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 5: Absolutely, and that's part of what his defense is arguing.

437
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 5: Why they're saying he shouldn't be put in the shackles.

438
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 5: It'll make him be perceived as dangerous and behind bars.

439
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,919
Speaker 5: He has been a model prisoner, one hundred and sixty days.

440
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 5: He's never had a misconduct. Really, yeah, so you know

441
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 5: that's why they're saying, Listen, he doesn't deserve more prejudicial

442
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 5: treatment with these shackles.

443
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 3: So we'll see there's no jury right now. What's prejudicial?

444
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 3: I'm very hard to get a jury or that, you know,

445
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 3: just for the jury pool.

446
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 5: It's for the it's for the motion, it's for the

447
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,679
Speaker 5: jury pool. I think just having him seen, no.

448
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, he should be I want to talk more

449
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 4: about me too. When we come back, we're going to

450
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 4: be hearing some super juicy details about the Gabby Patito story,

451
00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,159
Speaker 4: and later in the show at eleven, we're going to

452
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 4: be talking about the alleged Santa Anna serial cat killer.

453
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 4: I have a lot to say about that stick around

454
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 4: true crime tonight.

455
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 2: So where should we begin with this new update on

456
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 2: Gabby Patito and her mom.

457
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 3: You all might remember you know, Gabby.

458
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 2: Patito was that blonde, beautiful young girl who was doing

459
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 2: this van trip with her then fiance, Brian Laundry, and

460
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:34,119
Speaker 2: they were basically, you know, taking video of themselves, taking video,

461
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,640
Speaker 2: you know, documenting blocking blogging. Yeah, I'm like from nineteen ten,

462
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 2: so they are. They were documenting this like van trip

463
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,199
Speaker 2: over the summer, and Brian and Gabby were they were

464
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,199
Speaker 2: basically high school sweethearts. And then they had moved to

465
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,119
Speaker 2: Brian's house where he was living with his mom and

466
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 2: dad in Florida. They're originally from Long Island, so Gabby

467
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 2: was living with him, and look, they're young, they're you know,

468
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 2: she was twenty two years old, and they decide to

469
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 2: do this epic road trip, and you know, it starts

470
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,920
Speaker 2: off really great, and at some point it goes really

471
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 2: sideways and becomes this real look into domestic violence in

472
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 2: a way I can't even describe. So long on the

473
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,160
Speaker 2: short of it is, Gabby doesn't return home. The whole

474
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 2: nation was looking for her. I'm sure you guys were

475
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:21,160
Speaker 2: as well. We were all down on wanting her home.

476
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 2: She ultimately turned up dead, and and look, she turned

477
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 2: up dead through strangulation and apparently blunt force trauma to

478
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,159
Speaker 2: her head, and the family was going crazy. We were

479
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,120
Speaker 2: all the whole the whole nation was going crazy looking

480
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 2: for her. And then Brian the fiance Brian laundry. He

481
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 2: basically returns home to his parents' house with the van,

482
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 2: but without Gabby. So think about that, while the parents

483
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 2: can't get answers, right, the parents, so Gabby's parents are

484
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 2: blowing up their phones. Obviously they want to know what's happening.

485
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 2: We haven't Gabby, you know, just like my mom, I

486
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 2: talked to her ten times a day, right, So Gabby

487
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,360
Speaker 2: was very frequently in touch with her her family, and look,

488
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 2: they were having some like spats here and there, and

489
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 2: mom didn't really think too much of it. But after

490
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 2: a few days she starts to get super nervous, so

491
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 2: naturally she starts calling Brian's parents. Gabby was also living

492
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 2: with them, so they're all very close, and it's radio silence,

493
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 2: total radio silence. And then, sure enough, if you know

494
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 2: the story already to spar with me, Brian ultimately turns

495
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 2: up dead. He took his own life and left behind

496
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 2: a letter explaining why he had to kill Gabby because

497
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 2: she slipped or she injured herself into get her out

498
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 2: of pain. He basically had to kill her. It was

499
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 2: like a mercy killing of sorts, a mercy killing. Yet

500
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 2: he left her her sweet body in the cold to

501
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 2: roten Be. You know all the things. So this is

502
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 2: a pretty like major story. We all know the answer.

503
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 2: But very recently, Gabby's mom has said that she believes

504
00:25:54,880 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 2: that Brian's parents may have actually killed him. He claimed

505
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,199
Speaker 2: apparently that he committed suicide because he couldn't live with

506
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 2: the grief. But now you know, Gabby's parents are not convinced,

507
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 2: and Gabby's mom is really outwardly saying Brian's parents are

508
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 2: the problem. I forgive Brian, may he rest in peace.

509
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 2: I do not forgive that mother. And there's something wrong

510
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 2: with her because also when they went to get Gabby's belongings,

511
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 2: the house was already gutted apparently, and all of Gabby's

512
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 2: things were already gutted. There was already a big cover

513
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 2: up and play. And look, if you've seen that documentary again,

514
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 2: I feel like we're like Ciskel and Ebert always with

515
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 2: the documentary, right, But it's a very interesting watch if

516
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 2: you haven't seen it. It's also on Netflix and it

517
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 2: really does show them and all of the video that

518
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 2: they were taking along the way on their trip, and

519
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,360
Speaker 2: it's pretty harrowing because at one point you'll remember, they

520
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 2: got pulled over, yes, and this body can the footage. Yeah,

521
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 2: basically there was an altercation. Police get involved and separate them,

522
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 2: and Brian is sort of acting like, oh, it was

523
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 2: her fault. It was her fault, and she's sort of

524
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 2: conceding to that, but she looks petrified and then of course,

525
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 2: in her sweet face.

526
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 4: In this bodycam footage, you can you can see in

527
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 4: her face, I just I look back at this and

528
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 4: I just want to scream because her sweet face, she's like,

529
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 4: I guess it's my fault.

530
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 3: Right now.

531
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 4: They got pulled over because it was reported that he

532
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 4: was slapping her right yes or something, and then it

533
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 4: got totally turned around real time in front of the

534
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 4: police that she was the aggressor exactly right exact and

535
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 4: you can see now we learned too that I guess.

536
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,240
Speaker 4: There was a selfie taken by Gabby and in this selfie,

537
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 4: she's in the back of the police car and she's

538
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 4: begging for her phone. You know, she just wants to

539
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 4: call her mom and I just it's so heartbreaking. And

540
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 4: in this selfie that we just now have access to,

541
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 4: you can see her face markings. It really is a

542
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 4: cautionary tale.

543
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 5: On so many levels. I watched that the clip of

544
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:07,239
Speaker 5: the video of it's Nicole Schmidt is Gabby Potito's mom,

545
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 5: and yeah, she specifically said I think it's very possible

546
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 5: they did something and.

547
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 3: That they were culpable.

548
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 2: Right, So imagine the harrowing hours when you're looking for

549
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 2: your daughter and looking for him as well, right, Like

550
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 2: they just want answers period the end. You don't even

551
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 2: you're not assuming anyone's dead. You're just assuming that there's

552
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 2: you know, maybe she's in a hospital, or maybe they've

553
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 2: had a fight, or you know, maybe she lost her phone.

554
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 2: You don't go to she's been you know, left for

555
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 2: dead by her fiance. But regardless, the mom was really

556
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 2: being Brian's mother, meaning the accused killer. His mother was

557
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 2: really cagy the entire time. So to make the suggestion

558
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 2: that they killed him and that he did not take

559
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 2: his life, that's pretty major because what do you make

560
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 2: of that?

561
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 3: Like, what do you do? God, this is a horrible

562
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 3: question to even ask, what do you do your son

563
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 3: comes home with the van and without his girlfriend, do

564
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 3: you and in their case, they all remember they all

565
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 3: went to this camp like this camp.

566
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 5: Yes, Brian Landry's family with the parents and I believe

567
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 5: his sister too, go and pack up to go on

568
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 5: a trip. They went to his hand. It was so odd,

569
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 5: I mean beyond.

570
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 2: And well the reason they say they did that is

571
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 2: because they wanted to make a plan. So they went

572
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 2: into the woods, into this air quotes camping place so

573
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 2: they wouldn't have cell service and that they would be

574
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 2: able to kind of get in a group huddle and

575
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 2: put a plan in place. And that plan was ultimately

576
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 2: for Brian to go off into the wilderness and rather

577
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 2: than facing prison, he would take his own life. Or

578
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 2: Gaby's mom would say, or the parents killed him.

579
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 3: I don't know. Well haven't they been in litigation.

580
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 4: So the Potito family, and by the way, I guess

581
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 4: totally related Joe Potito, Gabby's father, has created an organization

582
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 4: who that I admire greatly.

583
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 3: Gabby was a beautiful, beautiful.

584
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 4: Young woman, blonde hair, blue eyes, and you know, she

585
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 4: got a lot of attention. And Joe Patito just a

586
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 4: remarkable man recognized like gosh, Mike, you know, of course

587
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 4: he's probably very happy his daughter got all this attention.

588
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 4: But his organization, the Potito Foundation, are now bringing awareness

589
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 4: to you know, black and brown people who go missing,

590
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 4: and you just have to really admire, like they've taken

591
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 4: this tragedy and really turned it into something so just.

592
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 3: I could cry.

593
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 4: It brings tears to my eyes to think about the

594
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 4: just it's so inspirational. But my point in bringing all

595
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 4: this up is they have been in litigation with the Laundries,

596
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 4: I think civilly to sue for like wrongful death or something,

597
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 4: because they're they're implying that they knew that Gabby was

598
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 4: out there, they knew she was in you know, exposed

599
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 4: to the wild in past and didn't do anything and

600
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 4: didn't help recover her or anything. So maybe through this

601
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 4: litigation some kind of disc rehappened, you know, because once

602
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 4: you open litigation with somebody, now you're you have reciprocal

603
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 4: discovery happening. I'm kind of wondering, like, there's got to

604
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 4: be something there for for Gabby's mom to utter those words,

605
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 4: you know, she's basically saying. I think specifically the mom is.

606
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 3: Responding to the mom. He is not into Brian's mom.

607
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 5: She she quote calls her a sociopath and also quote

608
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 5: they know what he did. They being Launcher's parents, they

609
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 5: know what he did. He helped him. I just want

610
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 5: to say, it's really imperative to say that this is

611
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 5: Gabby Potito's mom, Nicole's opinion, This is her opinion, and

612
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 5: what we know is fact is that a Florida medical

613
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 5: examiner has ruled Brian Laundry's death as a suicide.

614
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 3: So just.

615
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 2: Behind a note and you know that all sort of tracks.

616
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 2: But again, like you're that, it sounds like allegedly that

617
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 2: should become a drinking game. We should call it the

618
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 2: allegedly game. How many times do we say allegedly? But

619
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 2: you know, in reality, yeah, her body was out there

620
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 2: for far longer than it should have been, and the

621
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 2: agony that they were put through, perhaps unnecessarily. If Brian

622
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 2: Laundry's parents were in fact aware that this had happened,

623
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: that is criminal in my opinion, one hundred percent, I.

624
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 5: Think, and even if not legally criminal, even dialing back

625
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 5: to way in the beginning, when again Gabby's parents were

626
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 5: just saying, hey, where is she and not getting a

627
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 5: call back from her fiance's parents. That again not in

628
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 5: court of law, that in itself is criminal. We want

629
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 5: to hear your thoughts about Snight's case. Give us a

630
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 5: call eight eight eight three to one. Crime. We're talking

631
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 5: about Madeline McCain, Luigimanngioni, Brian Landry. So we want to

632
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 5: hear really everything that you have to say. So there's

633
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 5: a couple of quick headlines that are happening now, and

634
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 5: the first one say that is not the word. There's

635
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 5: a police hunt continuing for a father who is alleged

636
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 5: to have killed his three daughters in Washington State, and

637
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 5: it is a search for thirty two year old Travis Decker.

638
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 5: His wife who is excuse me, his ex wife, who

639
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 5: is divorced from mister Decker, said that he has been

640
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 5: diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and is currently unmedicated, which

641
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 5: just adds to sort of the potential chaos of this search.

642
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 5: So we're going to get into it in a big

643
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 5: way tomorrow. But a tip came in just I think

644
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 5: a couple of hours ago. I believe that he was

645
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 5: potentially seen in McCall Idaho's day.

646
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 4: So if you're in that if you're in that area,

647
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 4: keep your eye out, you google his name, that you

648
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 4: get his image and be on the lookout because he

649
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 4: is considered dangerous.

650
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 5: Very dangerous. We'll put a link on our socials and

651
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 5: if you do have any information, you are encouraged to

652
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 5: call the US Marshall Service at one eight hundred three

653
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 5: three six zero one zero two. Again, we're going to

654
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 5: put this on our social and we're going to really

655
00:33:59,040 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 5: get into it tomorrow.

656
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such a look at you know again, mental

657
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 2: illness is something that we should have a therapist or

658
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 2: a psychoanalyst on or someone to kind of shed some

659
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 2: light into this because if you think about the Luigi

660
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 2: I'm not saying anything.

661
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,879
Speaker 3: I'm not suggesting that I know if he was or was.

662
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 2: Not mentally ill, but it does seem like a through

663
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 2: line here of you know, how do we like spot

664
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 2: some of this stuff and prevent some of this stuff

665
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 2: because bipolar is really difficult if not treated, and you

666
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 2: know what a horrible.

667
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 5: Ending or in this case, borderline personality. That's right, Let's

668
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 5: try and find someone who can talk us through it

669
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,320
Speaker 5: a little bit. One other headline, this happened the Austin

670
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,879
Speaker 5: Police Department. They're investigating it. Another body that was found

671
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 5: in Ladybird Lake in Austin, Texas. So for the past

672
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 5: over the past three years, at least thirty eight bodies

673
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 5: have been found there. That so, listen, insane, it's insane.

674
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 5: I gasped as well, bodies I did, so what well

675
00:34:56,280 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 5: when I read a little bit further so, mainly the

676
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 5: causes of death have been attributed to accidental drownings. Suicide

677
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 5: is the number two cause, and drug ode verdoses and

678
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 5: natural causes. So so far, only one case has been

679
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 5: ruled to murder, but about half a dozen of the

680
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 5: cases remain unknown.

681
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 4: Oh, but the bodies aren't being dumped there. It's not

682
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 4: like a dumping site, right, it's just accidents and.

683
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 5: Well, you know all of all of those things, A

684
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 5: lot of accidents, and there's a lot of accidents and

685
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 5: drownings and bodies.

686
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 2: So we'll come back, you know, joining us later in

687
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,720
Speaker 2: the show. Doronto Fear true crime pop culture expert for sure,

688
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:39,919
Speaker 2: and of course body is going to be tracking a

689
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,919
Speaker 2: potential serial cat killer. All that and much much more

690
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 2: true crime tonight where we talk true crime all the time.

691
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 2: Let's talk about this terrible serial Yeah, what is that about?

692
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 2: I kind of want to start with you know this,

693
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 2: this stuff is kind of near and dear to my heart,

694
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 2: so I do appreciate the time to talk about this stuff.

695
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 2: I know it's not, you know, the typical true crime

696
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 2: kind of thing, but it it definitely has the menacing undertones, right,

697
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 2: and it can definitely lead, as we all know and

698
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 2: have witnessed to, you know, further deviant behavior leading to humans.

699
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna kind of briefly kind of go

700
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 2: over this because it is hard to talk about. I

701
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 2: mean it, listen, this kind of stuff is very hard

702
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 2: for me to talk about, but it is so I think,

703
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 2: super important. I'm just trying to be as honest as possible.

704
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 2: It's difficult to talk about. There's a guy in Santa Anna.

705
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 2: His name is Alejandro Olavero Sacosta, and he has been

706
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 2: charged with killing you know, upwards of twenty five housecats

707
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 2: in the Santa Anna area. And you know, I'm from

708
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 2: this area of Orange.

709
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 4: County, and you know, so I know like the area,

710
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 4: I know the neighborhood. I know, you know, this is

711
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 4: a very you know, caring neighborhood. These people love their pets,

712
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 4: and their cats are being brutally murdered by their neighbor. Well,

713
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 4: he was charged in April of twenty twenty five, and

714
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 4: he got bonded out because you know, again, judges have

715
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 4: minimums and maximums that they can do, and you know,

716
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 4: animal cruelty isn't necessarily this big crime, right. So the

717
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 4: problem with that is is that they're just kind of

718
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 4: looking at the charge, right, They're not really looking at

719
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 4: how he did this, all right, So what he would

720
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 4: do is he would lure these animals to his home

721
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 4: with food. What m So he would open, like, let's say,

722
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 4: a can of tuna, all right, and put it in

723
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 4: his windowsill. And this is just me basically opining what

724
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,760
Speaker 4: he did. He is being accused of luring them with food,

725
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 4: for sure, but officially I'm telling you this is my.

726
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 3: Theory of what he would do.

727
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 4: And he would get these pets, and again, these are

728
00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 4: not like feral cats. These are people's loving pets. And

729
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 4: then he would brutally kill them. He wasn't just killing them,

730
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 4: he was stomping on them. He was beating them. And

731
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 4: that's the thing that's really not being taken into consideration

732
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 4: is how menacing he was to these animals. And so

733
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 4: he got bonded out and he was supposed to reappear

734
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 4: in court on May twenty first, but he didn't show up.

735
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 4: So the judge rightfully so increased his bond to five

736
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 4: fifty I'm sorry, fifty thousand dollars and issued a benchward

737
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 4: for his arrest. Well, when they go to his house,

738
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 4: he's nowhere to be found, and he's been on the

739
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 4: run ever since and nobody has seen him. And you know,

740
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 4: it's scary because you know the statistics. I do panels

741
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 4: on this on crime con with accredited doctors. You know,

742
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,760
Speaker 4: these are not statistics I made up. These are coming

743
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 4: from real doctors that do these panels with me. I

744
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 4: did a panel with doctor Chris Mahani Mahandi and he,

745
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 4: you know, informed me that about all these statistics, like

746
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 4: perpetrators of animal abuse are three point two times as

747
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 4: likely to have a criminal record in five point three

748
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 4: times more likely to have a record of at least

749
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:05,800
Speaker 4: one violent crime.

750
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 3: Wow.

751
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 4: And a lot of women that show up in domestic

752
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,919
Speaker 4: violent shelters, you know, they say they suffered through their

753
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 4: abuse for so many years, oftentimes because the husband or

754
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 4: the boyfriend or the partner or whatever would be threatening

755
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 4: to kill their dog or their animals. So you know,

756
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,439
Speaker 4: this isn't this isn't just something that you know, I'm

757
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 4: pulling out of the air. This is like scientific research, right.

758
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 6: Well.

759
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 5: Also, yeah, and statistically, as you were saying, significant as

760
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:40,280
Speaker 5: a marker of potential future human abuse. Yeah, because really

761
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 5: you're taking some a vulnerable being and you're asserting your dominance.

762
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 5: And in this case, as you were saying, you know,

763
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 5: the horrible things you said about his manner of killing

764
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 5: these cats, I mean, that's an aggression that lives within

765
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 5: a person and it is coming out in one way

766
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 5: and can often lead into you.

767
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 4: Know, right, because if he's the way he's doing this

768
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 4: is like he's almost getting pleasure out of it, and

769
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 4: at some point the cat isn't enough. Right, And again,

770
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 4: this is not about the cat. It's about I mean,

771
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 4: obviously I love cats.

772
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 2: I'm a huge I'm a little allergic, but I love them.

773
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 2: Oh No, I have a cat. I love her so much.

774
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 2: I have a tattoo of my you know, deceased cat

775
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 2: on my arm. I love my cats. But it's not

776
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 2: about the cat, you know, It's about how they're doing it.

777
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 2: Like he was stomping, he was getting pleasure, in my opinion,

778
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 2: allegedly allegedly allegedly from from doing these things. And you

779
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 2: know it's a control thing, right, and eventually, at some

780
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 2: point it's not going to be enough to satisfy that urge,

781
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 2: and he's going to step up, right, and what's the

782
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 2: next step a person? And you know I experienced this firsthand, right,

783
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 2: we wouldn't talk about that experience too. Let's talk about

784
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 2: doing ough with cats body there.

785
00:40:55,680 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 5: You really had some unbelievable statistics. I've seen some of

786
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,800
Speaker 5: your panels and if I'm remembering, didn't a study find

787
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 5: that's something like almost fifty percent of convicted rapists and

788
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,399
Speaker 5: about thirty percent of child molesterers had a history of

789
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 5: animal cruelty.

790
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's sure wi stuff. Yeah, Like it's really a tell,

791
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:17,279
Speaker 3: it really is.

792
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 4: And then you know, like in my experience too, you know,

793
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 4: I of course dealt with Luca Mgnauta, who, by the way,

794
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 4: I hate saying his name, So I'm going to refrain

795
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 4: from that moving forward, if that's okay with everybody.

796
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,959
Speaker 5: Yeah, but in my name at your mouth?

797
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:34,359
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, in my experience, you know, before he even

798
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 4: uttered the words that he was going to move on

799
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 4: to humans because he did utter those words in messages

800
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 4: to us. And I'll give a little backstory on that

801
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 4: if you guys want, but yes, please do. Okay, So yeah,

802
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 4: oh man, where do I begin? Just turn on don'nuf

803
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 4: with cats and then you'll get the whole story. But

804
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 4: you know, in twenty ten, I ran across a video

805
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 4: that was posted online, and you know it, I thought

806
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 4: it was a cat video and I always watched the

807
00:41:58,640 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 4: Q who doesn't?

808
00:41:59,400 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 3: Right? Who does?

809
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 2: Cue?

810
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 4: I always watch these It lifts my spirits, right. Well,

811
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 4: it didn't turn out, you know, it started that way,

812
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 4: but it didn't end that way. It ended pretty gruesomely

813
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 4: with this like hooded person, you couldn't see this person's face,

814
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 4: you know, putting these beautiful cute kittens that he was

815
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 4: loving on into a plastic bag and then putting a

816
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 4: vacuum up to it and sucking the air out.

817
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:24,280
Speaker 3: And that was the video.

818
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,760
Speaker 4: And he put it up on a YouTube channel called,

819
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 4: you know, called catch Me if you Can, and that

820
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 4: was like, oh, okay, I was challenged, Yeah, okay, you

821
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 4: know I was enraged. Honestly, I was like because I

822
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:40,840
Speaker 4: felt duped, you know, I was like, oh, look at

823
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 4: these cute cats. And then oh, I was just horrified.

824
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 4: I was absolutely horrified. And again it was the way

825
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 4: in which he had done it, just like with you know,

826
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 4: the suspect in Santa Anna. And by the way, speaking

827
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 4: of Santa Anna, I just want to if you're listening

828
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 4: in Santa Anna, I'm so proud of that neighborhood for

829
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 4: protesting and demanding justice. They are not staying quiet, and

830
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 4: you know what, kudos to you, Kudos to you guys.

831
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 5: Keep it up.

832
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 4: I'm definitely watching. But you know, it's the way in

833
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 4: which which the guy with this hood over as was

834
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 4: doing this. And I started kind of investigating the video.

835
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 4: And when you're doing that, you know, you're you're dumping

836
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 4: the video out. You're looking at every frame. You know,

837
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 4: a ten minute video has thousands of frames, right, thousands,

838
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 4: and you're looking for things that can help identify where

839
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 4: in the world. Why I even begin looking, right, because

840
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 4: in an upload to the internet, that could the guy

841
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 4: could be in Egypt, exactly right, he could be in

842
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 4: South Africa, he could be in New Zealand. I have

843
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 4: no idea, right, So you start looking at things in

844
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,320
Speaker 4: the room they can't modify or change, and you're looking

845
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 4: at light bulbs. You're looking at outlets, specifically outlets, right,

846
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 4: because everywhere you go they're different, right, Outlets in North

847
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 4: America or in the United States at least look you

848
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,279
Speaker 4: know a certain way, but the outlets in England look

849
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 4: totally different.

850
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 2: Right, smart our analyst work right now or this analysis, Well,

851
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 2: that's what you're I never would think that, who would

852
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 2: think that, I would not know to even look for

853
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 2: the outlets.

854
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 3: But it's such a good point.

855
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what we focused on. So, you know, we

856
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 4: started doing those kinds of things. We started looking at,

857
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 4: you know, because you also released a series of photos,

858
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 4: and the photos he released were uploaded to a website

859
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 4: called photo Bucket, and photo Bucket would not strip the

860
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,320
Speaker 4: metadata from these photos. It would leave it intact if

861
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 4: it still existed. And we found a bunch of photos

862
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 4: that led us to a serial number of a camera. Okay,

863
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 4: the serial number of the camera he used to take

864
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 4: these photos. So that kind of you know, keeps you

865
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 4: keep narrowing down, basically is what you're trying to do.

866
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:43,840
Speaker 3: It's a puzzle.

867
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:45,879
Speaker 4: It's like this, it's a puzzle, and I mean, give

868
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,879
Speaker 4: me a puzzle, Give me a puzzle. I'm all about

869
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 4: the puzzle. Well, as time went on, he ended up

870
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 4: doing the same thing with three out three more cats, right,

871
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 4: and so well two more videos, I should say.

872
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 3: And then you know, we.

873
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 4: Started, we found out who he was, and we started

874
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,359
Speaker 4: talking to him, trying to get trying to get him help.

875
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 4: We were never threatening, We were never you know, like

876
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 4: we're gonna get you.

877
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 3: Never.

878
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 4: It was just like we want you to get help, like,

879
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,760
Speaker 4: you know, because clearly there's something wrong. When he started

880
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 4: communicating he was going to move on to animals or

881
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, to humans, and so you know, we're working

882
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,760
Speaker 4: with the police in Ontario and Montreal where we attract

883
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 4: him to eventually, and they were just kind of like,

884
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 4: you know, it's this is cats. What do he want

885
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 4: us to do? Right, And we were like, no, you

886
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,439
Speaker 4: don't understand. He's going to move on to people. And

887
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 4: two months after we spoke with the police of Montreal

888
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 4: where we at tracked him to, he ended up killing.

889
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 3: I'm sorry. He ended up.

890
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 4: Killing international student from China shouldn Lynn, and he filmed

891
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 4: it and sent us the video I'm sorry.

892
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 3: You know, I think about this every day.

893
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 4: I think every day, and I hope that the people

894
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 4: in Santa Anna know that people are watching and we

895
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,959
Speaker 4: have your backs. Yeah, and I definitely have your back,

896
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 4: and I hope that law enforcement and the judges and

897
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 4: everybody in charge takes this very seriously.

898
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 5: And you certainly have all of our support, and we

899
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 5: will cover this much more in the future. We are

900
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 5: going to be joined by pop culture expert Dorano Fear.

901
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,919
Speaker 2: Also he's a partner in La Comic Con. He's also

902
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 2: an executive producer and just fn't forget he's responsible for Snookie.

903
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:39,800
Speaker 2: He's responsible for Snooky exactly the greatest director.

904
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:42,959
Speaker 3: If you've seen Jersey.

905
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 2: Shore, you'll know his work because he casted Jersey Shore

906
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 2: and so many more. So I'll let him speak for himself,

907
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 2: but we're really excited to have him here. And yeah,

908
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 2: he's gonna he's gonna teach us a little bit about

909
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 2: ed Gean.

910
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 3: I'm obsessed already.

911
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 2: It's a little too scary, but he's gonna This is

912
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 2: gonna be an interesting twist because it has been. It's

913
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 2: been the inspiration to so many movies, Hannibal, Elector and

914
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 2: you know, Ghostface or Scream, et cetera. So durn Opear

915
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 2: is in the.

916
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 6: House Hi everybody.

917
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 5: Hi, Hi, I'm happy to be here.

918
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 3: Are you all right?

919
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 5: Ed Gean?

920
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,360
Speaker 6: Huh, Well, listen, when you guys asked for me to

921
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 6: potentially come on the show and talk about things that

922
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 6: I love, you know, I'm an executive producer, I'm a

923
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 6: comic geek, I'm a horror fan, and I am a

924
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 6: true crime aficionado. And for me, horror and true crime

925
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,839
Speaker 6: go hand in hand. And I think that since this

926
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 6: is the first week you guys are on, we should

927
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 6: start with what I consider literally the first American monster,

928
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 6: and that was ed Geen. And you know, so when

929
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 6: people think of notorious killers, whether it was Dahmer, you know,

930
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 6: or even fictional ones like Hannibal Lecter, long before them,

931
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 6: it was ed Gen And we're talking mid nineteen fifties.

932
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 6: A little backstory on ed Geen. For about a decade

933
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 6: there was unsolved gray robberies and people didn't understand where

934
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 6: the robberies were coming from. And in nineteen fifty seven

935
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 6: police raided a small farmhouse and they discovered the body

936
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 6: of at least one of two of his victims, Bernice Warden,

937
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 6: who was a hardware store owner. But worse was that

938
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 6: they found that Ian had a pension for interior design,

939
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 6: and the home and the shed were filled with artifacts

940
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 6: made from human skin.

941
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 2: Right like lamb sheets, lampshades made he was lampshades.

942
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 3: What skulls was a.

943
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 5: Nipples a butcher belt involved.

944
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 3: No, this is too much a nipple belt.

945
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 6: Yeah. He had bowls made out of human skulls. He

946
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 6: had chairs upholstered with human skin. He had a belt

947
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 6: made from nipples. And the most disturbing element was he

948
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:55,919
Speaker 6: had a full woman suit sown from body parts dug

949
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 6: up from local graves. And so ed Gean in nineteen

950
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 6: fifty seven shot not only the Midwest, but the world,

951
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 6: and he literally became the thing that horror movies are

952
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:08,399
Speaker 6: made out of. And he was the inspiration which then

953
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 6: led Hitchcock to create Norman Bates and Psycho. He was

954
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,720
Speaker 6: the inspiration for Leatherface and the Texas Chainsaw Massacre series.

955
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 6: He was partially the inspiration for sentence of the Lambs

956
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 6: we Bill, and you know there are correlations to Angela

957
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 6: from you know, the nineteen eighty sleep Away Camp movie,

958
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,319
Speaker 6: as well as Doctor Elliott from Dressed to Kill. So

959
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:36,239
Speaker 6: he really spawned a pop culture fascination that no one

960
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 6: else had ever done before him, and he is what

961
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 6: I consider the birth of modern horror and the true

962
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:45,760
Speaker 6: first Monster, so much so that Ryan Murphy is about

963
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 6: to release his third installment of his franchise Monster and

964
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 6: it is ed Geen And you know, this is the

965
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 6: follow up to the Dahmer series on Netflix, and then

966
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:57,640
Speaker 6: the second one was The Menandez Brothers. And here comes

967
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 6: the next face of horror for mar and audiences to

968
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 6: hear the whole story.

969
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 2: So is he considered like a serial killer or did

970
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,800
Speaker 2: he Where does he fit in that landscape?

971
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 3: Because those movies you just mentioned, they're all so different.

972
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:14,240
Speaker 3: You know, that's I never knew it was based on anything.

973
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,399
Speaker 6: What makes him fascinating was that he really only killed

974
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 6: two people, but his legacy is endless. You know, he

975
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 6: was the first killer to transform murder into a kind

976
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 6: of ritual theater. It was not a serial killer. He

977
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 6: never traveled, he didn't hunt the roadways. He was in

978
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,640
Speaker 6: a very small town in Wisconsin. He was raised by

979
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:35,439
Speaker 6: apparently a very domineering mother who was extremely religious. Under

980
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 6: this kind of theory that you know, she was the

981
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:42,359
Speaker 6: only good woman, which then leads you to understand how

982
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 6: Norman bas and the idea of psycho came about. He

983
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:52,919
Speaker 6: was considered a psycho sexual identity collapse, mental illness, And

984
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 6: this is very different from the concept of trans because

985
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 6: he did not think he was a woman. He wanted

986
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 6: to actually be his mother. He built. Yeah, he built

987
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 6: the suit in order to be able to climb into

988
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 6: it after her death. Oh and there's so much there's

989
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,240
Speaker 6: so much more surrounding this. You know, we know that

990
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 6: his brother actually there's a story behind it, Boddy. I

991
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:14,360
Speaker 6: think you was the one that actually filled me in

992
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 6: on that first.

993
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,759
Speaker 4: Right, Like, his brother kind of went missing and they

994
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 4: found there was a fire in the farm or you know,

995
00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 4: the farm crops, and when the first responders came, they

996
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 4: cleared the fire, but they also found the body of

997
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 4: his brother in that area. But he wasn't touched by

998
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:34,640
Speaker 4: the fire, and they kind of thought maybe, but they

999
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 4: never proved anything. What else can you tell us about

1000
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 4: this first monster, dron.

1001
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 6: So to build more on what body was talking about. Yeah,

1002
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 6: but in nineteen forty four, there was a fire, a

1003
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 6: burning marsh vegetation fire on the property and it got

1004
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 6: out of control. So when the local fire department responded,

1005
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 6: they found Henry his brother, and his brother was found

1006
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,880
Speaker 6: face down, bruised, but no signs of smoke in elation

1007
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 6: and that time, they never they never, they never went

1008
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 6: into it. You know. They said that he was officially

1009
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 6: ruled an accident due to apphixiation, but no autopsy was

1010
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:14,800
Speaker 6: ever performed and while no charges, yeah, well, no charges

1011
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 6: was ever put against ed. They do believe that he

1012
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 6: killed his brother, and theories suggests that Henry would have

1013
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:22,960
Speaker 6: to like confronted ed about his domineering mother because the

1014
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 6: thing was is that ed Geen was considered sort of

1015
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 6: a town oddity where his brother was well liked, well known,

1016
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:34,880
Speaker 6: and did not have the same issues that he had

1017
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 6: with his mother.

1018
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 5: So do you think Doron was he potentially jealous of

1019
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,879
Speaker 5: having to share his mother with his brother? Know whether

1020
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:45,399
Speaker 5: she was alive or dead or.

1021
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 6: I don't know, well, incidents talk about the fact that

1022
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 6: the brother had left early on and that he was

1023
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 6: against his mother, Augusta. That was her name, Augusta, so

1024
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 6: you know, I don't know. So she may have been

1025
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 6: able to focus her mental illness on ed and it

1026
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 6: could be a story of longtime abuse, which again doesn't

1027
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,920
Speaker 6: justify the level of the crimes. But no one had

1028
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 6: ever seen anything like this before. This level of depravity

1029
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 6: had never been experienced or even heard of before, which

1030
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 6: is what why I say he's sort of the father

1031
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 6: of modern horror, and so he's not a serial killer.

1032
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 6: He's just a murderer in the worst sense.

1033
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:27,280
Speaker 2: Do you feel like we're kind of you know, listen,

1034
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 2: this is not me so boxing, that's certainly not my intention.

1035
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 2: But given that Ryan Murphy, whose work I really I

1036
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 2: really like, is doing this as the next you know,

1037
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 2: monster for his scripted series, are we glorifying this a bit?

1038
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 2: Much like it used to be kind of a rule

1039
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 2: that you stayed away from the actual perpetrator to you know,

1040
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 2: you stayed away from the killer even right because you

1041
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 2: didn't want to give them a stage. Sometimes these types

1042
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 2: of murderers that are especially performative, you know, giving them

1043
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 2: more of a giving them more FaceTime frankly on the

1044
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:00,799
Speaker 2: news or otherwise, it's sort of kind of feeds the

1045
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 2: beast a little bit. Are we doing that because you know,

1046
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 2: we were talking about this earlier about the Menendez brothers,

1047
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:09,719
Speaker 2: and are we glorifying Dahmer or is that just you know,

1048
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:10,880
Speaker 2: am I just overthinking that?

1049
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 6: No? It's no, No, it's legitimate. It's a legitimate thing

1050
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 6: that I deal with constantly, especially when talking about pop culture.

1051
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 6: The issue here is are we turning villainy into heroism?

1052
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:24,800
Speaker 6: And Ryan Murphy is an interesting aspect of this because

1053
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 6: what he did with Dahmer, which by the way, was

1054
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 6: a brilliant limited series.

1055
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 3: It was being.

1056
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:34,560
Speaker 6: Cinematically so well acted, you know, all of it. However,

1057
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:37,880
Speaker 6: that he took a very specific lens on Dahmer and

1058
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 6: he made Dahmer hyper sexualized with very slow panning shots

1059
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:45,280
Speaker 6: of him working out, and he turned it very homo erotic.

1060
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 6: He did. He got a lot of backlash for it, absolutely,

1061
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:50,399
Speaker 6: but he didn't shy away from it because he did

1062
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:51,760
Speaker 6: the same thing with the Menendez brothers.

1063
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 4: Yes, he did do it in fact, yes, yeah, volume

1064
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:57,920
Speaker 4: I think he leaned into it, of.

1065
00:54:57,880 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 6: Course he did. And what I'm looking at now is

1066
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:03,360
Speaker 6: that even the casting choice is going to be playing

1067
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:03,839
Speaker 6: a game.

1068
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:07,319
Speaker 3: So you know, he's so handsome, like that's again, he's

1069
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:07,920
Speaker 3: like a hero.

1070
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 6: So here you go. So are we glorifying it? Are

1071
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 6: we hyper sexualizing it? Are we turning it into you know,

1072
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:17,279
Speaker 6: remote fantasies? Do I think?

1073
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:17,400
Speaker 5: So?

1074
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:22,840
Speaker 6: Yes? Is it capitalizing on morbidity. Yes, you know, my

1075
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 6: type of horror is I like happy horror, meaning comedy

1076
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 6: horror like Scream, But even Scream in its own yielded

1077
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 6: multiple copycat killers, really really viole. Yes, we'll save that

1078
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:36,399
Speaker 6: for another front.

1079
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 2: About that, I didn't know that. I want you to

1080
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:42,919
Speaker 2: go see Final Destination. Have you seen that yet? That's

1081
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 2: my kind of horror film because it's more of like

1082
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 2: a roller coaster. You know, you feel scared, you know,

1083
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:50,759
Speaker 2: it's not you know, it's not so insidious.

1084
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 6: Well, but think about ed game for a second. Psycho

1085
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 6: was the first ever real horror movie to gain critical

1086
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,839
Speaker 6: acclaim globally. Now I'm not talking about Nasparato, and I'm

1087
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 6: not talking about sort of the universal monsters that came before.

1088
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 6: And we have to remember that horror is a reflection

1089
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 6: of human fears of its time. So when you look

1090
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 6: at horror in the fifties, it was all from beyond.

1091
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:13,919
Speaker 6: It was the Blob, the attack of the fifty foot Woman.

1092
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:17,280
Speaker 6: It came, you know, from space. This was a reaction

1093
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 6: to nuclear you know, the atomic bomb, the space race.

1094
00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 6: It was the unknown, it was you know, large spiders,

1095
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 6: Valley of the Ants, you know, and in the fifties

1096
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 6: we didn't have this kind of horror. And when this happened,

1097
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:37,760
Speaker 6: Psycho was the first to put in a real vision

1098
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 6: of what psychopathy could really be. And it horrified the world.

1099
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:47,360
Speaker 6: And it didn't lead any immediately into the concept of

1100
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:51,320
Speaker 6: serial killers or flasher movies. What came after that was

1101
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 6: a lull. And what we did get was this this

1102
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 6: sort of new vision of horror that led to the

1103
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:03,279
Speaker 6: women's rights amendments. So in the seventies, when women's rights

1104
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 6: got their right the broad burning the pill, suddenly the

1105
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 6: reaction became sort of slutshaming because the slasher movies brought women.

1106
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 6: Who was the final girl? It was always the virginal one.

1107
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, yeah, that show. All the ones were

1108
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 2: the first to go.

1109
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 6: That's what it was. It was about was promiscuous teens

1110
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 6: finding a new sort of sexual revolution. And what led

1111
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:30,720
Speaker 6: to that, if you go, if you go step back

1112
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 6: just half a decade, we dealt with all sorts of

1113
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 6: religious horror, the exerting, oh, well, you're.

1114
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 3: Gonna stay with us, so yeah, don't go anywhere. I

1115
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 3: don't want to hear more about all.

1116
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 4: Of this stick around because We've got a lot more

1117
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:43,640
Speaker 4: to dig into. Duran's gonna stay with us. I'm going

1118
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 4: to tie him to his chair to talk about all

1119
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:47,960
Speaker 4: of our favorite true crime TV shows and then we

1120
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:48,760
Speaker 4: want to hear from you.

1121
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 3: So keep it here.

1122
00:57:49,800 --> 00:58:03,040
Speaker 2: True Crime Tonight, back with Doronto Fear. He is our

1123
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 2: pop culture crime expert, and he is one of the

1124
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 2: best in the business in many different ways. And we've

1125
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 2: been talking about ed Geen and sort of this person's

1126
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 2: influence on scary movies.

1127
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 3: And we were curious, you know, to hear from you. Deran.

1128
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 3: What are you watching right now.

1129
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 6: In terms of true prime.

1130
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, like any documentaries or you know, anybody Courtney or body.

1131
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 2: If there's anything that we must be watching. You know,

1132
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 2: we want to know always always.

1133
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 6: I just I just binge watched on AMC Plus and

1134
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 6: it's also available on sun Dance. The Preppy Murder, the

1135
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,440
Speaker 6: Death in Central Park that came out in twenty nineteen.

1136
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 6: I'm linked to that unfortunate party and that is fascinating

1137
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 6: for me. Number one, I lived it sort of adjacent

1138
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 6: to it. And number two, again, I was fascinated by

1139
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 6: this concept of the monster that we didn't see and

1140
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 6: if people don't know this story. It follows you know,

1141
00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 6: the Robert Chambers and this was the crime of the

1142
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 6: Center before OJ like the whole world watched a handsome

1143
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 6: nineteen year old six well four Upper East sider yuppified

1144
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 6: in a time of excess, and he murdered Jennifer Levin,

1145
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 6: a beautiful eighteen year old, killed her in Central Park.

1146
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:24,160
Speaker 6: Her body was found, shirt hiked up, no underwear, strangled.

1147
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 6: He did admit to it. But what was shocking about

1148
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 6: that documentary and why to watch it is it goes

1149
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:34,520
Speaker 6: into the first ever trial and how this was the

1150
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 6: first case of true victim shaming on a global scale.

1151
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 6: They changed the narrative and made him the victim, and

1152
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 6: that she was ultimately so promiscuous that he had a

1153
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 6: fighter off she was one. Yeah, that was and that

1154
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 6: is a testament of how far we've come as a

1155
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:53,480
Speaker 6: society and the me too movement. And it is a

1156
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,960
Speaker 6: horrifying case and if you watch it thoroughly, you can't

1157
00:59:57,000 --> 01:00:00,560
Speaker 6: help it start to question the motives of the system.

1158
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 2: What happened to him? Actually, come to think of it

1159
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 2: is is he still behind bars? Like I kind of

1160
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 2: forget how that one pays off?

1161
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:11,920
Speaker 6: Ooh, that's a whole other story. He ultimately from the trial,

1162
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:14,240
Speaker 6: the jury was hung and he took a pleat deal,

1163
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:17,800
Speaker 6: so the prosecution, the prosecution was never able to find

1164
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:21,240
Speaker 6: him guilty. And what was shocking about that case was

1165
01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 6: that the whole world championed him against her, what as

1166
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 6: the innocent victim. It's a harrowing tale of justice gone wrong,

1167
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:33,920
Speaker 6: and at least the documentary gives her a voice for

1168
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:37,680
Speaker 6: the first time, because every major newspaper covered it as

1169
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 6: it was her fault or his doing, or it was

1170
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 6: done because of rough sex his and he was so

1171
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 6: good looking that that's how they claimed it, going back

1172
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 6: to this concept of beauty. So he was arrested, he

1173
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 6: went to jail, he served, he was got five to fifteen.

1174
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 6: He was released, Yeah, from bad behavior while he was

1175
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 6: in there. He didn't get five, He stayed the whole fifteen.

1176
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 6: He was released. He was then recharged under drug charges

1177
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 6: and he actually got eighteen years for the drug charges,

1178
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 6: which is so much more than the actual murder of

1179
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:10,560
Speaker 6: this innocent eighteen year old girl who had her whole

1180
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 6: life ahead of her, was just about to leave and

1181
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 6: go to Boston University. And that is that is, that

1182
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:18,480
Speaker 6: is the tragedy of that case. He was released now

1183
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 6: after the second stint in twenty twenty three. Wow, he's out.

1184
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 3: That's so interesting. I actually don't know that I was

1185
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:27,080
Speaker 3: aware of that.

1186
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 2: I feel like we should probably dig dig into that

1187
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 2: a little bit further.

1188
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 3: I didn't realize he had been released.

1189
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, I certainly want.

1190
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 6: To see that doc Wow, So that's what I'm watching.

1191
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, Courtney, body, what about you guys?

1192
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 5: Okay, I actually had kind of a groundbreaking moment. I

1193
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 5: watched Sins of Our Mother on Netflix.

1194
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:53,440
Speaker 3: Lorie Vallo, Yes, Lorie Vallo did though.

1195
01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 5: And as a reminder, we spoke a little bit about

1196
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:01,760
Speaker 5: it the other day. But it's the most complicated case

1197
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:05,240
Speaker 5: known to man that Stephanie summarized her so well. But

1198
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 5: Lourie Valley, Lourie Valo da Bell left in her wake

1199
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:16,200
Speaker 5: a husband who's been murdered, her husband, her new husband's

1200
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 5: former wife, two of her children who were found buried

1201
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 5: in her backyard. It's a really sordid tale. So I

1202
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 5: had not seen the documentary Sense of Our Mother on

1203
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:31,000
Speaker 5: Netflix until just this week. I had forgotten because I

1204
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:34,760
Speaker 5: had deemed Lori Valo just demonic and a monster, and

1205
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 5: those are the words I said. I had forgotten that

1206
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 5: her oldest son was sweetest, yes, but that he was

1207
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 5: raped at the hands of Lorie Valo's former husband. And

1208
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 5: there's audio of her saying, if I don't turn to

1209
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 5: the church, which is what seems to have led her

1210
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:57,120
Speaker 5: on this murder spree, then I will turn to murder

1211
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 5: speaking about her ex husband. So it just connected the

1212
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 5: dots that I don't know. I just I had empathy

1213
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:06,280
Speaker 5: for her I'd never had before, because I could really

1214
01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:10,880
Speaker 5: understand being just broken knowing that someone I was married

1215
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:13,240
Speaker 5: too did that to my son.

1216
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 2: I totally hear you, in your right, she did Lorie Valo.

1217
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 2: We're speaking of this also known as the Doomsday mom,

1218
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:23,680
Speaker 2: or as I call her killer Mom. I think she's

1219
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:28,040
Speaker 2: the pits. And honestly, yes, that was a terrible thing.

1220
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 2: We had done an episode with Nancy Grace's show in

1221
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:36,040
Speaker 2: Justice with Nancy Grace and interviewed the Sun and he's like, darling,

1222
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:39,440
Speaker 2: and can you imagine he'd been through so much and was,

1223
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 2: you know, very devoted to his mother. And while yes,

1224
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 2: you could see that as a wicked tipping point. But

1225
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:49,160
Speaker 2: there's so many other countless stories about Lorie Valo that

1226
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 2: show her to be a bad egg from jump and manipulative,

1227
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 2: and it was almost as though perhaps she took this

1228
01:03:56,600 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 2: inciting incident to this terrible thing that happened to her

1229
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:02,560
Speaker 2: son and kind of allowed it to give her a

1230
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:06,720
Speaker 2: little justification, because remember, she killed her own children, so

1231
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:09,800
Speaker 2: she's like, oh, you know, how dare have somebody to

1232
01:04:09,840 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 2: do that to my son? Which, by the way, how

1233
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 2: dare that anybody do that to her son? Of course,

1234
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:16,960
Speaker 2: but then she went on to kill her own kids

1235
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 2: and bury them in shallow graves and currently is looking

1236
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 2: at another trial because she also apparently tried to kill

1237
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 2: her niece's ex husband and she's going to be on

1238
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:31,400
Speaker 2: trial for that now representing herself.

1239
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 3: That got delayed.

1240
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:34,120
Speaker 2: We were going to cover that this week, but we

1241
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:36,560
Speaker 2: will obviously do so when that trial kicks in.

1242
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:37,919
Speaker 3: But like, what a joke.

1243
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:40,720
Speaker 2: She's a clown and she's taking up a lot of time,

1244
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 2: and she's killed so many people.

1245
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:46,600
Speaker 3: She's a straight up serial killer. Don't get them started, Courtney, don't.

1246
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 5: I know, wind you up.

1247
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:52,840
Speaker 3: So bad?

1248
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:56,680
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, by the way, same similar. I mean, I'm

1249
01:04:56,680 --> 01:04:59,400
Speaker 2: gonna sound like I'm a nut right now, because Ruby

1250
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:03,880
Speaker 2: Frankie have you guys heard this one. Yes, she's the mother. Also,

1251
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 2: it's on Hulu. It's called The Monster in Our House

1252
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:09,280
Speaker 2: or The Monster in the House, and it's the Ruby

1253
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:14,040
Speaker 2: Frank story. And she was again a very lovely, loving mother,

1254
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 2: had many children, and she was one of the original

1255
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:21,840
Speaker 2: like vloggers that would do basically videos with her family

1256
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:25,120
Speaker 2: for money and all of her little nuggets. They were

1257
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 2: on this like YouTube channel called eight Passengers, which I

1258
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:31,720
Speaker 2: kind of remember seeing like they lived in Salt Lake City,

1259
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 2: very wholesome, very religious, beautiful family beyond measure. And I

1260
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:40,360
Speaker 2: don't want to spoil it, but she's recently been arrested

1261
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 2: and is looking at thirty years behind bars, because you know,

1262
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 2: the image that she put.

1263
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:48,520
Speaker 3: Forward is anything but.

1264
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:51,000
Speaker 2: And I made the mistake of watching this last night

1265
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:54,520
Speaker 2: and I couldn't sleep. She got so under my skin,

1266
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:57,120
Speaker 2: I guess the way Lori Valo does too, because again

1267
01:05:57,160 --> 01:06:01,160
Speaker 2: they look so loving and nice on the outside and

1268
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,840
Speaker 2: then their total psychopaths on the inside, and what they've

1269
01:06:04,880 --> 01:06:08,720
Speaker 2: done to children is unimaginable. So that one I really

1270
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:12,280
Speaker 2: recommend because it has so much found footage like home video,

1271
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:15,400
Speaker 2: and obviously they were videotaping their lives. I keep saying

1272
01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:21,800
Speaker 2: videotaping again, like nineteen eighty. I mean, honestly, there's all

1273
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 2: this footage though that they've been shooting throughout the years.

1274
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:27,760
Speaker 3: So it's pretty compelling to be in the beehive. Buddy,

1275
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:29,080
Speaker 3: what about you? What are you watching?

1276
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:29,640
Speaker 6: Wow?

1277
01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:33,240
Speaker 4: Okay, So my girlfriend and I every weekend, like our

1278
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 4: weekend kind of revolves around what are we going to watch?

1279
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:37,960
Speaker 4: And we kind of sit at home and she presses

1280
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:40,560
Speaker 4: play and ipress play right, and we watch. And this

1281
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:44,280
Speaker 4: weekend we decided to watch the titan Remember the sub

1282
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:48,280
Speaker 4: that imploded down at the Titanic. Oh yeah, ocean Gate.

1283
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:51,000
Speaker 4: Now listen, I know that doesn't seem like true crime adjacent,

1284
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:52,600
Speaker 4: but listen, it is.

1285
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:53,560
Speaker 3: For sure.

1286
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 4: The United States government is looking at possible charges against

1287
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:01,800
Speaker 4: ocean Gate for manslaughter. Five people died in this in

1288
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:05,520
Speaker 4: this sub And when you watch the documentary, I was

1289
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:08,840
Speaker 4: blown away at I mean, the guy that that ran

1290
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 4: this this company ignored every expert and when there were

1291
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:16,200
Speaker 4: cracks in the hole, he was just like, oh.

1292
01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:20,680
Speaker 3: Well, you know, like it was a complete scam scheme.

1293
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:23,920
Speaker 4: He was he was taking tickets and then fixing things

1294
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 4: with that ticket money and then like it was awful, right,

1295
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 4: And so I was.

1296
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:31,080
Speaker 6: Prayed and he was praying on narcissism, which is either

1297
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:35,760
Speaker 6: a crazier element to this because it is diabolical.

1298
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 4: Absolutely diabolic. And okay, here's how there's another thing though,

1299
01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:43,560
Speaker 4: the tailen All murders. I watched that and I was stunned.

1300
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:45,040
Speaker 4: You guys, you know, I told you I was obsessed

1301
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:48,240
Speaker 4: with the unibomber get this and the talent numbers. Did

1302
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:51,720
Speaker 4: you guys know, no, listen, did you guys know that

1303
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:54,720
Speaker 4: they suspected Ted Kenzyinski the unibomer of this?

1304
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 3: Why did not?

1305
01:07:57,240 --> 01:07:57,479
Speaker 5: Really?

1306
01:07:58,040 --> 01:08:00,400
Speaker 3: And you know, I'm obsessed with this. I had no idea.

1307
01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:04,160
Speaker 6: So for people that don't know, it was about you know,

1308
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:07,400
Speaker 6: this was in the eighties when tail and all, you know,

1309
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 6: people were dying, they were poisoning and like grocery stores,

1310
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:12,920
Speaker 6: so you went and like took two for your headache

1311
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 6: and died. And so when that happened, it created a frenzy.

1312
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:19,800
Speaker 6: The outcome of that, interestingly enough, is the reason why

1313
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 6: we have safety steal seals.

1314
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:25,280
Speaker 3: That's right, m H. Absolutely fascinating.

1315
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:27,599
Speaker 4: So those are two I absolutely recommend if you get

1316
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:30,120
Speaker 4: if you get a chance, and obviously don't have with cats.

1317
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:30,960
Speaker 3: Do you know? Check that out?

1318
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:36,719
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, fas number one. Well, listen, thank you so much, Dern.

1319
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:40,599
Speaker 5: It is always our greatest pleasure to speak with you

1320
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:42,760
Speaker 5: and so happy to have you on our first week

1321
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:43,320
Speaker 5: of our show.

1322
01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:45,240
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.

1323
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:49,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, anyone who wants to and everyone should follow Doran

1324
01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:53,719
Speaker 5: on his socials at doran oh fear cast and also

1325
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 5: pre sale tickets are available now for La Comic Con

1326
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:04,680
Speaker 5: Love Comic Love Gravir tickets, get.

1327
01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:09,120
Speaker 2: A yes to having you soon come back tomorrow Yeah yeah, yeah,

1328
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:11,080
Speaker 2: and then again, if there's anything that you want us

1329
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 2: to be covering, or anything that you don't want us

1330
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:16,920
Speaker 2: to be covering, we have very thick skin, so go

1331
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 2: ahead just give it to a street.

1332
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:20,679
Speaker 3: You know. The whole idea for this is that.

1333
01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:22,120
Speaker 2: You know, we're just kind of all around a kitchen

1334
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:24,720
Speaker 2: table together and talking about the news of the day

1335
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:27,160
Speaker 2: and hopefully bringing some a weirdness to stuff.

1336
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:30,080
Speaker 3: So I will stop talking. I know, Court, WHI should

1337
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:30,960
Speaker 3: we go to? First?

1338
01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:34,520
Speaker 5: Well, listen, I have a DM that I is definitely

1339
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:38,360
Speaker 5: worth hearing. It's from Matt from Baltimore. Thank you for

1340
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:42,680
Speaker 5: reaching out, and so they wrote, despite everything. Luigi has

1341
01:09:42,720 --> 01:09:46,080
Speaker 5: maintained his innocence. There is a lot of conversation around

1342
01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:49,080
Speaker 5: his motives and support, but no one seems to be

1343
01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:52,599
Speaker 5: questioning whether or not he's the one who actually did it.

1344
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:56,320
Speaker 5: Have we forgotten that he's innocent until proven guilty?

1345
01:09:56,640 --> 01:10:02,040
Speaker 3: Good point, that's a real fair point. So An actually

1346
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:05,360
Speaker 3: because I this is terrible.

1347
01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:07,360
Speaker 5: And I'm actually glad you put out in my bias,

1348
01:10:07,479 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 5: I was actually thinking that whether Luigi fired the gun

1349
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:16,639
Speaker 5: was on the table or not, but it entirely is.

1350
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:19,000
Speaker 5: So that's a bad bias I had in my mind.

1351
01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:24,320
Speaker 5: He has pled not guilty to everything, and his lawyer,

1352
01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:28,160
Speaker 5: Thomas Dickey, he stated there had that. He has said,

1353
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:32,040
Speaker 5: I haven't seen any evidence linking luigiman Gioe to the

1354
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:37,320
Speaker 5: shooting of CEO Brian Thompson, and even the further said

1355
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:41,640
Speaker 5: his defense attorney that the ghost gun excuse me, that

1356
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:44,320
Speaker 5: was found on him when he was arrested, it has

1357
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:47,080
Speaker 5: not been definitively matched to the one in the death.

1358
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:50,960
Speaker 2: Soa and no, and also like they have this like

1359
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 2: surveillance footage and obviously the shooting, then they have him

1360
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:57,479
Speaker 2: on hood exactly, and that's also been brought into a

1361
01:10:57,560 --> 01:11:00,559
Speaker 2: question is you know, is this a look alike? Although

1362
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:02,919
Speaker 2: wasn't he found with the bag with like fake IDs

1363
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:07,040
Speaker 2: in it? And you know, obviously this manifesto that kind

1364
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:11,559
Speaker 2: of spe and the ghost and the ghostcun but but fair.

1365
01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:14,800
Speaker 5: I mean, our legal system is and it's true until

1366
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:18,200
Speaker 5: proven guilty. So absolutely heard. Thank you. Do we have

1367
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:20,719
Speaker 5: any other Did you guys have any other dms?

1368
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:24,800
Speaker 3: Yeah? Like you, Courtney, I didn't get any dms, No one.

1369
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:25,720
Speaker 3: I have one.

1370
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 4: And it's kind of interesting hydrocrime tonight. It seems like

1371
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:32,559
Speaker 4: the amount of money and resources poured into the McCann

1372
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 4: case is completely disproportionate from other comparable missing person's cases.

1373
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:39,479
Speaker 4: I even have some friends who think the whole case

1374
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:42,640
Speaker 4: is a money laundering scheme. I think that's absolutely ridiculous.

1375
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:44,360
Speaker 4: That's absurd, It's absurd.

1376
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:45,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.

1377
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:47,880
Speaker 4: I don't think any amount of money could, you know,

1378
01:11:48,439 --> 01:11:52,600
Speaker 4: be too much on anybody, And I think that's absolutely

1379
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:55,679
Speaker 4: an absurd money laundering scheme.

1380
01:11:55,720 --> 01:11:57,519
Speaker 2: Come on, I think I really just hope that she

1381
01:11:57,600 --> 01:11:59,559
Speaker 2: comes home safe, and I'm just going to keep putting

1382
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:01,800
Speaker 2: it out there regardless of what some of the new

1383
01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:04,840
Speaker 2: developments have suggested. We're just going to keep putting out

1384
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:07,600
Speaker 2: good energy that you know, positive things to come from that.

1385
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:10,280
Speaker 2: And again tomorrow we'll have some more details on that

1386
01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:12,880
Speaker 2: as well. I always want to say thank you guys

1387
01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:15,720
Speaker 2: for staying with us. It's been a great night. We're

1388
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:18,479
Speaker 2: definitely going to be back tomorrow talking Diddy and also

1389
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:22,160
Speaker 2: the Karen Ree trial heats up, so stay with us.

1390
01:12:22,439 --> 01:12:24,960
Speaker 2: This is True Crime Tonight where we talk true crime

1391
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:25,719
Speaker 2: all the time.

1392
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:26,479
Speaker 6: Good Night,