WEBVTT - Let's Remember Shannen's Journey...with Dr. Lawrence Piro

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<v Speaker 1>This is let's be clear with Shannon, Drney a little

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<v Speaker 1>Let's be clear family. This is doctor Lawrence Pirou.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm the president CEO of the Angelus Clinic and Research Institute,

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<v Speaker 2>an oncologist, and most of you listening to this know

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<v Speaker 2>me because I was Shannon's doctor and Shannon's friend. And

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<v Speaker 2>this is really the first time I've talked about Shannon

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<v Speaker 2>since she passed away. I wasn't even sure I wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to do that. It's been hard to talk about her,

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<v Speaker 2>even amongst family and friends. Oh, because you know, she

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<v Speaker 2>was bigger than life. She was so big and so present,

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<v Speaker 2>and when she was in your life, she was, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>hugely in your life. And so it actually doesn't seem

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<v Speaker 2>like she's gone. It seems like she's on location doing

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<v Speaker 2>a film or series somewhere and she's working super long hours,

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<v Speaker 2>and so we're not really talking very much. And that

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<v Speaker 2>kind of makes the processing of all of it, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit more more difficult, because there's still the

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<v Speaker 2>idea that, you know, when that gig is done, she'll

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<v Speaker 2>be back and we'll be having dinners and long conversations

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<v Speaker 2>and talking and about all the things and doing all

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<v Speaker 2>the things that we always did. And so when I

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<v Speaker 2>was thinking about whether I wanted to do this, and

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<v Speaker 2>I sat down with Rosa, we had a chat. I

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<v Speaker 2>see Rose all the time. I take care of Rose

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<v Speaker 2>as well, and I know all of you are concerned

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<v Speaker 2>about her too. So Rosa's doing fine. She's she lives

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<v Speaker 2>in Shannon's house, and she's taking care of the dogs

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<v Speaker 2>and doing all the things that she did before, and

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<v Speaker 2>she's you know, she's grieving.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a long process.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, Shannon started acting on sets at ten,

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<v Speaker 2>and Rosa was with her all the time because she

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<v Speaker 2>didn't want to trust her to any other kind of

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<v Speaker 2>you know, on set keeper. So Shannon and Rosa have

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<v Speaker 2>been obviously together all their lives, but they've been joined

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<v Speaker 2>at the hip, and in the sense of when Shannon

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<v Speaker 2>became kind of a professional adult at ten, if you

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<v Speaker 2>were not certainly not an adult, but you know what

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, a working person with her own opinions and things.

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<v Speaker 1>They've been joined at the hip from then forward.

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<v Speaker 2>And Shannon and Rosa with Shannon for so much of

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<v Speaker 2>everything that Shannon did, you know, if she went places,

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<v Speaker 2>if she did things, all of that sort of thing,

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<v Speaker 2>they were together. So you can imagine that just the

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the the sheer emptiness of Shannon now being there,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, is certainly hard for her.

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<v Speaker 1>And then her mother and you know, all of that, but.

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<v Speaker 2>She's actually processing it very well, very naturally and normally

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<v Speaker 2>though difficult.

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<v Speaker 1>It's difficult, but she's doing well.

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<v Speaker 2>And she she you know, she's so dedicated to Shannon's

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<v Speaker 2>fans and to their you know, memory of Shannon, and

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<v Speaker 2>they're keeping Shannon's memories alive and their loyalty to Shannon.

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<v Speaker 2>And so I should I should express that to you,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, on her behalf. She wanted me to to

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<v Speaker 2>express that because it's very meaningful to her, and it's

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<v Speaker 2>a great sense of.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a great sense of sort of peacefulness and recognition. Really.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's like when you lose someone, to know

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<v Speaker 2>that they're you know, loved and recognized by so many people.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a great consolation, That's what I should say.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a great consolation and and she feels that, and

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<v Speaker 2>so I passed that along to all of you. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>people have asked me a lot, not just fans from Afar,

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<v Speaker 2>but also people who saw Shannon with me, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>socially at places you know, a few weeks before she died,

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<v Speaker 2>and she looked so great when we were out to

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<v Speaker 2>dinner and did not.

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<v Speaker 1>Look sick and all of that.

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<v Speaker 2>So when news of her death came, you know, was

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<v Speaker 2>particularly shocking. People knew she had a long journey with cancer,

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<v Speaker 2>but nobody was really expecting that she was going to

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<v Speaker 2>pass away at that time.

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<v Speaker 1>And that is due to several reasons.

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<v Speaker 2>One is that, you know, Shannon, it's incredibly healthy and

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<v Speaker 2>great at putting herself together, and she looked great even

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<v Speaker 2>no matter how sick she was.

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<v Speaker 1>She really really looked great. You know, there were no

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<v Speaker 1>limitations of her movements or anything like that, so there

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<v Speaker 1>were really no no visible evidence to others who didn't know,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, how much the disease had progressed, that it

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<v Speaker 1>had progressed that much, and you know what, she didn't

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<v Speaker 1>want anybody to know.

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<v Speaker 2>She absolutely didn't really want anybody to know. And they

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<v Speaker 2>knew that she had stage four cancer, but she didn't

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<v Speaker 2>want anyone to know exactly where it was at.

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<v Speaker 1>Because she wasn't looking for you know, sympathy.

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<v Speaker 2>She was fighting every day, you know, fully forward and

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<v Speaker 2>she wanted to look good and look active and live

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<v Speaker 2>her full on life and things just you know, hit

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<v Speaker 2>a turning point and happened very quickly.

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<v Speaker 1>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>It was probably that she was so well compensated for

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<v Speaker 2>so long despite the condition of things, that after it

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<v Speaker 2>hit a certain critical point, then it couldn't be compensated anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>And and so then things went you know, relatively quickly.

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<v Speaker 1>And but but.

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<v Speaker 2>The job at that point was for her to be very,

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<v Speaker 2>very comfortable and and and so she was.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that.

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<v Speaker 2>Sometimes people want under like, how could it have turned

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<v Speaker 2>to stage or they don't really understand that that particular

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<v Speaker 2>process of what happened. And you know, she did very

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<v Speaker 2>well after her initial therapy and you know, did you

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<v Speaker 2>very aggressive treatment on her, and she was in a

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<v Speaker 2>great remission. And then on you know, routine follow up,

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<v Speaker 2>it turned up. And people have asked, well, wouldn't it

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<v Speaker 2>turn up on skins and things. Yes, that's exactly what happened.

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<v Speaker 2>It turned up on routine follow up. She's completely having

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<v Speaker 2>no symptoms or anything, and it turned up, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>just unexpectedly, and and it was not there was not

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<v Speaker 2>very much there, but it had spread in a way

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<v Speaker 2>that it was stage four And so that changed our

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<v Speaker 2>journey and changed our course of treatments and changed the

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<v Speaker 2>balance of things, you know, for her, and so then

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<v Speaker 2>she had to make different choices about things and what

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<v Speaker 2>was important to her. But we, you know, marched on

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<v Speaker 2>for a very very very long time, and she did

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<v Speaker 2>so well, and she lived her life to the fullest.

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<v Speaker 2>And as everyone's surprised to see how active she was

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<v Speaker 2>and how much she was doing and then suddenly she

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<v Speaker 2>was gone.

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<v Speaker 1>That shows you that she lived every day to the fullest,

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<v Speaker 1>all way up to the very end.

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<v Speaker 2>And also people have asked me about clinical trials for her,

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<v Speaker 2>and yes, we looked at many clinical trials along the way.

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<v Speaker 2>Clinical trials are complicated because they're very rigidly structured, so

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<v Speaker 2>you have to have certain criteria and you have to

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<v Speaker 2>meet those criteria. And what clinical trials you know, might

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<v Speaker 2>have been interesting to us for her particular situation were

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<v Speaker 2>things that she couldn't fit those criteria for a variety

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<v Speaker 2>of reasons that are you know, beyond really what we

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<v Speaker 2>want to discuss here. But she just couldn't fit the

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<v Speaker 2>exact clinical trial criteria for those and so we didn't

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<v Speaker 2>ever enter into a clinical trial per se.

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<v Speaker 1>You know. One of the things that was so interesting

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<v Speaker 1>and meaningful.

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<v Speaker 2>In the last year of her life was this podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and so that this podcast holds a very

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<v Speaker 2>special place in my heart because Shanna was very, very smart.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, she she grew up being educated on set

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<v Speaker 2>because she was acting since ten pretty much continuously. Little

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<v Speaker 2>House on the Prairie and nine O two one zero

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<v Speaker 2>and Charmed and all that.

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<v Speaker 1>But when she's going through her education and it's.

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<v Speaker 2>Just you know, she was, you know, voracious about information

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<v Speaker 2>and incredibly intelligent, and so she always made her opinions

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<v Speaker 2>based on facts and her own thought process. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>different people are attracted to different things than other people.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, some people are attracted to people because they're,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, whatever, pretty, or they're tall, or they're short,

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<v Speaker 2>or they're athletic, or the certain color hair, or you know,

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<v Speaker 2>what they do for a living or whatever it is.

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<v Speaker 2>Shannon was attracted to minds, She was attracted to intelligence,

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<v Speaker 2>and she loved a great conversation and she could carry

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<v Speaker 2>on a great conversation. Was a great participant in conversations,

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<v Speaker 2>and she came prepared, you know, she came prepared with

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<v Speaker 2>you know, with facts and things. She didn't just glob

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<v Speaker 2>onto opinions of other people or opinions that were not

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<v Speaker 2>well founded in facts. And I think that's why she

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<v Speaker 2>wound up up making opinions about certain things along her

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<v Speaker 2>career that she took stands on that sometimes you know,

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<v Speaker 2>cost her in terms of her career because she, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>felt very strongly about those things. But if you also

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<v Speaker 2>look at those things, they were there across the board.

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<v Speaker 2>They're not all a group of opinions or thoughts or

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<v Speaker 2>ideas or or or or you know, political positions or

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<v Speaker 2>personal positions that that all, you know, are all clustered

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<v Speaker 2>around a particular thing like being conservative or being liberal,

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<v Speaker 2>or you know, being you know, any of these labels

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<v Speaker 2>that you want to use for different things. None of

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<v Speaker 2>those labels fit. It was Shannon. It was Shannon's world,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was her opinion. And and so she, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>she's stood up for women's wages because she felt that

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<v Speaker 2>was right. But by the same token, she might not

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<v Speaker 2>have stood up for something else that would be congruous

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<v Speaker 2>with that point of view, because her analysis was different.

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<v Speaker 2>And I love that about her because it made her unpredictable,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, intelligently unpredictable in the way we all

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<v Speaker 2>should be where we are finding our voice and our

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<v Speaker 2>message is based on facts and beliefs and truth, not

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<v Speaker 2>based on what another group of people, UH think we

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<v Speaker 2>should believe or or if you have a certain label

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<v Speaker 2>on you belonging to a certain religion or party or

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<v Speaker 2>or group or whatever association, that you have.

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<v Speaker 1>To now have the opinions associated with that.

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<v Speaker 2>We should all be making our own opinions and our

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<v Speaker 2>own on the basis of facts and the basis of passion.

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<v Speaker 1>And she did that so well, that's that's something I

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<v Speaker 1>think that's something that all of you probably recognize.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe maybe maybe you did recognize that exactly literally like

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<v Speaker 2>I'm saying it, But inherently you recog did her personality,

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<v Speaker 2>which is why you know, you became so attracted to her,

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<v Speaker 2>attached to her, because because that's how she was, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>and she went hard for the things that she believed

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<v Speaker 2>in and felt strongly about, and she shouldn't pay a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of attention to the things that she didn't. She

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't trying to control the world. She wasn't trying to

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<v Speaker 2>control every topic, and she wasn't trying to control other people.

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<v Speaker 1>She was just trying to move the needle forward for

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<v Speaker 1>those issues and those those causes that she felt important.

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<v Speaker 1>And that is you know, so many long dinners and.

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<v Speaker 2>Long conversations that were rooted in that. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>if you look in today's world, I mean it's a

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<v Speaker 2>fast moving world, and you know television, things go and

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<v Speaker 2>snippets very quickly, and everything's about sound bites and pretty quick.

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<v Speaker 2>In life now there are that many people that can

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<v Speaker 2>sit down with a glass of wine and slip a

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<v Speaker 2>glass of wine over three hours and have an intense, intelligent,

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<v Speaker 2>fact based conversation that doesn't have fights her arguments in it.

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<v Speaker 2>It has meaningful exchange and an openness with the possibility

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<v Speaker 2>that you know, you might lead the conversation, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>with a different point of view than you came with.

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<v Speaker 1>Because that's what makes you a winner.

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<v Speaker 2>Right when you're in a conversation, and if you're just

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<v Speaker 2>trying to hammer home your point, only.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you win from that? Right?

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<v Speaker 2>But if you if you're in a conversation and you

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<v Speaker 2>actually learn some new facts or develop some new opinions,

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<v Speaker 2>or we can't become more more open or broad minded,

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<v Speaker 2>or understand an issue in a way you didn't before,

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<v Speaker 2>then you've really won. You've really left the evening with

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<v Speaker 2>something of value. And that was always the case with Shannon.

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<v Speaker 2>You would you would leave the evening with something value.

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<v Speaker 2>Now I'm not saying that she didn't fight for her point.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh boy, did she ever five her points. She's very

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<v Speaker 2>tough for her points, and I loved it. But she

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<v Speaker 2>always did it with facts and with playfulness and with humor.

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<v Speaker 2>And that was great because she could laugh at herself

0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:13.560
<v Speaker 2>and she could laugh at situations she didn't.

0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:19.120
<v Speaker 1>Really she really enjoyed life. I mean she really, she

0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:23.240
<v Speaker 1>really grabbed it, you know. And I talked before.

0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.600
<v Speaker 2>About some of the dinner she would have, and like

0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:31.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, dinner with Shannon at her house was Shannon

0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:34.560
<v Speaker 2>in the kitchen cooking. She would always put out a

0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:40.000
<v Speaker 2>beautiful on apasta as appetizers, which by the time we

0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:43.360
<v Speaker 2>were done with this amazing bread and you know, fantastic

0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:48.840
<v Speaker 2>cheeses and beautiful meats and vegetables and other things, it's like,

0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:53.520
<v Speaker 2>we're really going to eat some more now. But then

0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:57.560
<v Speaker 2>would come pizzas. She was a she was an absolute

0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:00.960
<v Speaker 2>master at pizza. So then would come a course of pizzas.

0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:05.360
<v Speaker 2>Usually that would be sensational and there were almost always

0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.720
<v Speaker 2>three or four different types, so everybody had a taste

0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:13.040
<v Speaker 2>to suit them, and then would come maybe apasta course.

0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:16.760
<v Speaker 1>Or maybe meat, you know, but always something delicious.

0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:18.720
<v Speaker 2>The only thing is she had served very much as

0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.120
<v Speaker 2>fish because she didn't like fish, didn't eat fish much,

0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:23.840
<v Speaker 2>but she did I remember on one occasion she did

0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:27.240
<v Speaker 2>serve fish along with other things. So she knew how

0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:28.800
<v Speaker 2>to cook it and she would serve it for others,

0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:33.280
<v Speaker 2>but she wasn't big on eating fish herself. She also

0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.280
<v Speaker 2>was so into food that, you know, she was up

0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:39.760
<v Speaker 2>on every new restaurant when it would open, and she would,

0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:43.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, she would get introduced and she would arrange

0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:46.960
<v Speaker 2>a dinner there, somebody's birthday dinner or just a general dinner,

0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:51.440
<v Speaker 2>and we would try all the dishes, kind of all

0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:54.960
<v Speaker 2>to divide and conquer order different kinds of dishes and

0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:59.440
<v Speaker 2>people could taste them. And she was very definitive about

0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:01.800
<v Speaker 2>that as well. She you know, she did a very

0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:06.920
<v Speaker 2>good vocabulary of cuisine and a good and a good palette,

0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:10.600
<v Speaker 2>and so she could very easily get to the bottom

0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.520
<v Speaker 2>of whether she was going back to that restaurant or not,

0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:16.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, anytime soon. It was pretty you know, pretty great,

0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:20.960
<v Speaker 2>pretty great. A lot of fun, such a so so

0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:24.600
<v Speaker 2>very much fun. And I think that's why she didn't.

0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:28.280
<v Speaker 2>She didn't want to do anything but live life to

0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:30.480
<v Speaker 2>the full. She wanted to share her journey with you

0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:35.960
<v Speaker 2>and tell you about about the cancer and and be

0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.200
<v Speaker 2>able to have camaraderie with others that had it and

0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:43.480
<v Speaker 2>inspire them and you know, connected them. But she didn't

0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:47.360
<v Speaker 2>want that to define her life. She she wasn't a

0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:50.120
<v Speaker 2>cancer person, you know. I don't think of her end

0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:53.160
<v Speaker 2>that way. Yes, she had a long, long journey with him,

0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:55.880
<v Speaker 2>but she wasn't She wasn't a cancer person, you know.

0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:59.440
<v Speaker 2>And there are sort of two kinds of people when

0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:01.400
<v Speaker 2>it comes, when it's coming towards the end.

0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:03.600
<v Speaker 1>There are people who need to.

0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:08.000
<v Speaker 2>Acknowledge coming toward the end and embrace that, you know,

0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:10.720
<v Speaker 2>maybe you know, do a set of activities to a

0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:14.800
<v Speaker 2>group of people, you know, things that you maybe want

0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:15.119
<v Speaker 2>to do.

0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:18.440
<v Speaker 1>And other people who.

0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:20.800
<v Speaker 2>Just they know it, but they just want to live

0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.919
<v Speaker 2>every day as fully as possible and not have that

0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:27.320
<v Speaker 2>be a part of their active existence that it's getting

0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:28.000
<v Speaker 2>towards the end.

0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:32.120
<v Speaker 1>And that's why.

0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:35.119
<v Speaker 2>I think, you know, you saw her full tilt and

0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:37.760
<v Speaker 2>then all of a sudden you know it was done.

0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:40.760
<v Speaker 2>In fact, though she did she did have a quote

0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:44.760
<v Speaker 2>unquote bucket list. Though I don't think she you know,

0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:46.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it was a kind of bucket list

0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:49.800
<v Speaker 2>where she felt like, you know, I better get that

0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:52.840
<v Speaker 2>list organized real, for real, fit really fast, you know,

0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:55.480
<v Speaker 2>because I'm going to have that short of a time.

0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:57.800
<v Speaker 2>I think it was a bigger, more long thing. But

0:17:57.880 --> 0:17:59.080
<v Speaker 2>she did have a bucket list.

0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:01.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't love that.

0:18:01.520 --> 0:18:05.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't love that term myself only because I just,

0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:09.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, I just believe in enjoying the fullness of

0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.520
<v Speaker 2>something for what it is, and the idea that when

0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:14.679
<v Speaker 2>it's doing it so it gets, you know, sort of

0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:17.200
<v Speaker 2>crossed off the list before your time is done has

0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:19.960
<v Speaker 2>a I don't know, it changes a little bit for me,

0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:22.520
<v Speaker 2>but I know many people use that term. But and

0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:25.280
<v Speaker 2>she used to every once in a while, mainly when

0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:27.879
<v Speaker 2>she got offered the opportunity to do something that she

0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:30.520
<v Speaker 2>really wanted to do. She's like, you know, one of

0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:33.040
<v Speaker 2>the trips that we did, she goes, I know, you

0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:36.360
<v Speaker 2>invited me because you knew that was on my bucket list,

0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:39.639
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, actually, I invited you because I

0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:42.160
<v Speaker 2>thought it would be fun and I thought you would

0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:45.000
<v Speaker 2>have a great time, and I wasn't really thinking about

0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:45.760
<v Speaker 2>your bucket list.

0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.560
<v Speaker 1>But you can put it that way if you want to.

0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:50.560
<v Speaker 1>It was and.

0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:52.680
<v Speaker 2>Of course, like a comment like that would turn into

0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:56.600
<v Speaker 2>a very jovial like discussion of bucket list and we

0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:58.760
<v Speaker 2>would go back and forth and it would wind up

0:18:58.960 --> 0:18:59.800
<v Speaker 2>ending with a laugh.

0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:01.919
<v Speaker 1>But it was, it was, it was.

0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:10.679
<v Speaker 2>It was really really amazing, really amazing human, amazing conversationalists,

0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:19.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, amazing actress, amazing wits, so many things to

0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:24.160
<v Speaker 2>to enjoy, which again, you know, it's just I'm sure,

0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:26.640
<v Speaker 2>like in the middle of this, I have my ringer

0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:29.240
<v Speaker 2>off right now my phone since I'm doing this podcast.

0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:31.320
<v Speaker 2>But I'm telling you, if I had the ringer on,

0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:33.600
<v Speaker 2>I would be relatively sure she'd be calling at some

0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:37.119
<v Speaker 2>point because I'm really not at all. You know, it

0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:40.520
<v Speaker 2>doesn't feel at all like she's not just you know,

0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:44.439
<v Speaker 2>off working somewhere and being quiet for a minute. Because

0:19:44.440 --> 0:20:00.000
<v Speaker 2>of that, you know, Shannon was very honest in her

0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.639
<v Speaker 2>her you know, conversations in the podcast about the decisions

0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:06.239
<v Speaker 2>that she made, and because she was so smart and

0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:10.720
<v Speaker 2>so definitive, you know, she participated in every decision and

0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:15.520
<v Speaker 2>she owned it, you know, and that's the thing, you know,

0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:20.240
<v Speaker 2>she owned her decision making. She never said, you know,

0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:21.960
<v Speaker 2>why did I do this or why did I do that.

0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:24.480
<v Speaker 2>She made the decision, made the best decisions she could,

0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:26.720
<v Speaker 2>and that was it. And then there was a go forward.

0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:29.399
<v Speaker 2>There was no review later if it didn't turn out

0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:29.920
<v Speaker 2>the way she.

0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:30.600
<v Speaker 1>Hoped it would.

0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:36.639
<v Speaker 2>And and we talked about, you know, the reasons that

0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:41.080
<v Speaker 2>she didn't take you know, tmoxiden in the very beginning,

0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:48.040
<v Speaker 2>because she had been on you know, hormone blockade for

0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:51.280
<v Speaker 2>a little while for a few months and didn't really

0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:53.840
<v Speaker 2>like you know, the feeling and what.

0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:54.400
<v Speaker 1>It did to her.

0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:59.520
<v Speaker 2>And so after we finished chemo and surgery and radiation,

0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:04.960
<v Speaker 2>she'd want to go on that. And I brought it

0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:07.960
<v Speaker 2>up with her every single time that we met in

0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:11.160
<v Speaker 2>the office, said do you do you want to revisit

0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:14.280
<v Speaker 2>this decision? Are you sure you know about that decision?

0:21:14.280 --> 0:21:18.240
<v Speaker 2>You're shure making the right decision, we look at the data, whatever,

0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:22.440
<v Speaker 2>And each time she you know, recommitted to the fact

0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:25.480
<v Speaker 2>that she'd want to do that. And of course, you

0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:29.720
<v Speaker 2>know when a few years later, on a scan you know,

0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:32.800
<v Speaker 2>shows up some spots that are now making stage four

0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:36.840
<v Speaker 2>are you, like heart sinks into your stomach about not

0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:39.480
<v Speaker 2>having taken a new look. We don't know if that

0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:41.679
<v Speaker 2>would have happened, even if she would have taken it.

0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:44.879
<v Speaker 2>Because when you're taking quote unquote adjubant therapy, which is

0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:48.240
<v Speaker 2>what that was, adjubant meaning there's no evidence of cancer

0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:49.280
<v Speaker 2>and you're taking.

0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:53.439
<v Speaker 1>This pill to decrease the odds that comes back.

0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:55.600
<v Speaker 2>You know, you don't know if you would have been

0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:57.960
<v Speaker 2>someone where it was destined to come back, or whether

0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:03.320
<v Speaker 2>the pill would have saved you, but certainly makes you,

0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:06.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, wonder and wonder about that decision.

0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:09.400
<v Speaker 1>But she, you know, she really didn't spend.

0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:11.760
<v Speaker 2>A lot of time and regret and I admire that,

0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:14.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, you know, we all should live that way.

0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:15.359
<v Speaker 1>We all try to.

0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:19.520
<v Speaker 2>Yet many times we spend time focusing on why we

0:22:19.600 --> 0:22:21.560
<v Speaker 2>made a certain decision and regretting it when it was

0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:22.880
<v Speaker 2>an outcome we didn't expect.

0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:25.840
<v Speaker 1>And so sometimes you're looking in the rear of your

0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:26.560
<v Speaker 1>mirror trying to.

0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:29.080
<v Speaker 2>Figure out how you got where you are instead of

0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:32.160
<v Speaker 2>looking forward in terms of where you're going. And then

0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:34.680
<v Speaker 2>mac truck hicks, you, you know, so you really got

0:22:34.680 --> 0:22:37.760
<v Speaker 2>to be focusing, You got to be focusing your attention

0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:39.560
<v Speaker 2>on where you're at and where you're going forward, and

0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:42.600
<v Speaker 2>not trying to double back on the decisions that were

0:22:42.600 --> 0:22:46.040
<v Speaker 2>made before, because it's a that's a losing game. It

0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:49.520
<v Speaker 2>doesn't never makes you feel good, never makes you feel better.

0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:54.040
<v Speaker 2>Often you don't ever kind of piece it back together

0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:57.840
<v Speaker 2>because you don't always remember all of the the vectors

0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:00.280
<v Speaker 2>that were impacting your decision of the time you were

0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:02.960
<v Speaker 2>making it. So because in retrospect, some of those vectors

0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:06.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, are still evident and some are not so evident,

0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:10.200
<v Speaker 2>and and so you forget some of them, and then

0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:12.280
<v Speaker 2>you retrace it, you can't remember them all, and you

0:23:12.320 --> 0:23:15.359
<v Speaker 2>get caught up in this you know, web of you

0:23:15.359 --> 0:23:20.479
<v Speaker 2>know of situation. And so I would say that, you know,

0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:23.000
<v Speaker 2>it's really it's really of no.

0:23:23.119 --> 0:23:24.040
<v Speaker 1>Value to do that.

0:23:24.160 --> 0:23:26.359
<v Speaker 2>The best thing is just look at where you're at,

0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:28.879
<v Speaker 2>and look at the data for where you are, make

0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:31.640
<v Speaker 2>the bests as you can, and move forward and don't

0:23:31.760 --> 0:23:35.520
<v Speaker 2>don't revisit it. And she certainly that was the Shannon way,

0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:41.120
<v Speaker 2>and I think it was incredibly you know, healthy, every

0:23:41.160 --> 0:23:43.960
<v Speaker 2>person with stage four cancer as a different course, and

0:23:44.040 --> 0:23:47.359
<v Speaker 2>you know, it depends on what type of cancer and

0:23:47.800 --> 0:23:51.440
<v Speaker 2>with the inspective of breast cancer. You know, there's estrogen

0:23:51.480 --> 0:23:53.600
<v Speaker 2>receptor positive and negative.

0:23:53.600 --> 0:23:56.720
<v Speaker 1>There's hurt too, positive and negative, many.

0:23:56.520 --> 0:24:00.800
<v Speaker 2>Different you know, things that stratify your your your likely

0:24:00.880 --> 0:24:05.320
<v Speaker 2>outcome and what the treatments are. And there's high volume

0:24:05.359 --> 0:24:08.359
<v Speaker 2>disease and low volume disease, and it depends on which

0:24:08.520 --> 0:24:12.879
<v Speaker 2>organ it spreads to. But there are many people with

0:24:12.960 --> 0:24:17.120
<v Speaker 2>stage four disease that are able to live even decades,

0:24:18.400 --> 0:24:21.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, coexisting with the disease or with it in

0:24:21.359 --> 0:24:23.879
<v Speaker 2>a remission, but sort of knowing if the treatment or

0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:27.359
<v Speaker 2>is stopped, maybe it would grow back. So everyone has

0:24:27.400 --> 0:24:30.720
<v Speaker 2>a different course. And we certainly got a very long

0:24:30.760 --> 0:24:33.560
<v Speaker 2>and good course and beat the odds in a lot

0:24:33.600 --> 0:24:35.920
<v Speaker 2>of ways, and that there's some people who beat the

0:24:35.920 --> 0:24:37.920
<v Speaker 2>odds even more. And then there are some people who

0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:42.440
<v Speaker 2>have more difficult and shorter courses. So I don't think

0:24:42.480 --> 0:24:46.480
<v Speaker 2>it's good to personalize if you have stage four cancer.

0:24:46.560 --> 0:24:49.840
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it's good to personalize other people's you know,

0:24:49.960 --> 0:24:53.359
<v Speaker 2>journey and outcome towards your own, because there are so

0:24:53.440 --> 0:24:56.920
<v Speaker 2>many stratifying factors that weigh upon it. And when you're

0:24:56.960 --> 0:25:00.679
<v Speaker 2>listening to someone else's story, you usually don't you know,

0:25:00.720 --> 0:25:03.639
<v Speaker 2>you don't have those other factors, You don't have those

0:25:05.800 --> 0:25:07.960
<v Speaker 2>other elements because they may not have told you in

0:25:08.000 --> 0:25:10.359
<v Speaker 2>the story, they may have shared that with you, so

0:25:10.480 --> 0:25:14.640
<v Speaker 2>you can't really personalize it in a way that's meaningful.

0:25:15.119 --> 0:25:17.840
<v Speaker 2>And so I think, you know, it's certainly good to

0:25:18.359 --> 0:25:21.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, use some people have had good courses as

0:25:21.320 --> 0:25:23.600
<v Speaker 2>an inspiration. Maybe that, I mean, I think that's a

0:25:23.720 --> 0:25:26.720
<v Speaker 2>nice thing. But if if someone else is having a

0:25:26.760 --> 0:25:30.320
<v Speaker 2>bad course, it just it just doesn't mean that you.

0:25:30.280 --> 0:25:31.920
<v Speaker 1>Know that it's going to apply to you.

0:25:32.200 --> 0:25:36.880
<v Speaker 2>And you know, we talked a lot about quality of life, right,

0:25:36.960 --> 0:25:42.120
<v Speaker 2>but your mental state, right, your mental state, your ability

0:25:42.160 --> 0:25:45.520
<v Speaker 2>to feel like I'm on this planet with two feet

0:25:46.200 --> 0:25:51.760
<v Speaker 2>on it, on solid territory, engaged in my life, engaged

0:25:51.800 --> 0:25:55.680
<v Speaker 2>with my wife or my husband, my children, my parents,

0:25:55.800 --> 0:25:57.560
<v Speaker 2>my friends, whoever they are that.

0:25:57.560 --> 0:25:58.760
<v Speaker 1>Are engaged in your world.

0:25:58.800 --> 0:26:01.920
<v Speaker 2>But that you're you're planning on the ground, you're really here,

0:26:02.359 --> 0:26:07.080
<v Speaker 2>You're engaged in your life and you're enjoying your life.

0:26:07.240 --> 0:26:10.720
<v Speaker 1>This is quality of life, This is meaningful life.

0:26:11.480 --> 0:26:16.920
<v Speaker 2>If every day is just wondering what the next scan

0:26:17.080 --> 0:26:20.240
<v Speaker 2>is going to bring, and you know what the next

0:26:20.240 --> 0:26:22.000
<v Speaker 2>turn of events is going to be with regard to

0:26:22.040 --> 0:26:25.400
<v Speaker 2>your disease. This is not quality of life because then

0:26:25.560 --> 0:26:28.800
<v Speaker 2>when you look at your kids, you're, you know, your

0:26:28.800 --> 0:26:31.760
<v Speaker 2>eyes missed up, wondering am I going to you know,

0:26:31.920 --> 0:26:34.680
<v Speaker 2>see them graduate or see them get married or whatever,

0:26:36.280 --> 0:26:38.760
<v Speaker 2>And it just takes you to a place where every day,

0:26:39.680 --> 0:26:43.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, is filled with sadness, remorse and loss, you know,

0:26:43.240 --> 0:26:49.480
<v Speaker 2>rather than joy, hopefulness, you know, and possibility. And so

0:26:50.400 --> 0:26:52.840
<v Speaker 2>I know it's easier to say that than to do that,

0:26:53.800 --> 0:26:57.600
<v Speaker 2>but we all have to live every single day embracing

0:26:57.840 --> 0:27:02.199
<v Speaker 2>and fully engaged as much as you can. And I

0:27:02.200 --> 0:27:05.240
<v Speaker 2>can tell you lots of situations of patients that I

0:27:05.320 --> 0:27:10.560
<v Speaker 2>have who have stage four cancer and they outlive other

0:27:10.600 --> 0:27:13.159
<v Speaker 2>people in their lives who were not even diagnosed with

0:27:13.200 --> 0:27:16.879
<v Speaker 2>cancer at all, but during the course of their life

0:27:16.920 --> 0:27:19.400
<v Speaker 2>with the stage four cancer, the other people in their

0:27:19.440 --> 0:27:22.480
<v Speaker 2>life get something and pass away from it and they're

0:27:22.520 --> 0:27:24.160
<v Speaker 2>still alive with stage four cancer.

0:27:24.760 --> 0:27:27.920
<v Speaker 1>So or there are car accidents or other kinds of things.

0:27:27.920 --> 0:27:28.399
<v Speaker 1>So none of.

0:27:28.480 --> 0:27:33.480
<v Speaker 2>Us has any guarantee of how much time we have

0:27:33.720 --> 0:27:37.400
<v Speaker 2>or what's coming. So we should all be engaged every

0:27:37.400 --> 0:27:42.120
<v Speaker 2>single day and make it real and to pay deference

0:27:42.200 --> 0:27:44.760
<v Speaker 2>to what we call this podcast.

0:27:44.359 --> 0:27:46.040
<v Speaker 1>What Shannon call this podcast.

0:27:46.160 --> 0:27:49.080
<v Speaker 2>Let's be clear, you know, let's be clear about the

0:27:49.080 --> 0:27:51.480
<v Speaker 2>fact that we should all engage as much as we

0:27:51.560 --> 0:27:55.200
<v Speaker 2>can in life because there are no guarantees of time.

0:27:55.480 --> 0:27:58.320
<v Speaker 2>And although it seems like someone with stage four cancer,

0:27:58.880 --> 0:28:03.359
<v Speaker 2>you know, might have a clearer path to you know,

0:28:03.600 --> 0:28:06.439
<v Speaker 2>the time length they have and what's likely to happen,

0:28:07.400 --> 0:28:13.040
<v Speaker 2>and often other people get surprised. So I feel I

0:28:13.040 --> 0:28:16.040
<v Speaker 2>feel like people Shannon, like Shannon, you know, inspire me

0:28:16.080 --> 0:28:19.439
<v Speaker 2>in my life to try to make sure I do

0:28:19.560 --> 0:28:21.320
<v Speaker 2>everything that I want to do as much as I

0:28:21.359 --> 0:28:23.840
<v Speaker 2>can each day, in addition to doing the things that

0:28:23.880 --> 0:28:26.880
<v Speaker 2>I have to do, so that when the day is done.

0:28:26.720 --> 0:28:28.280
<v Speaker 1>I feel like, you know, I.

0:28:29.800 --> 0:28:33.440
<v Speaker 2>Lived a full day that I was engaged in and

0:28:33.480 --> 0:28:36.720
<v Speaker 2>that I enjoyed, and I think we should all try

0:28:36.720 --> 0:28:51.959
<v Speaker 2>to do that. I think the concept of living with

0:28:52.080 --> 0:28:55.560
<v Speaker 2>cancer is something that is hard for people to understand

0:28:55.680 --> 0:29:01.800
<v Speaker 2>because a lot of times cancer and historically has been

0:29:01.840 --> 0:29:04.200
<v Speaker 2>something you either find it early and you cut it

0:29:04.240 --> 0:29:04.680
<v Speaker 2>out and.

0:29:04.600 --> 0:29:07.640
<v Speaker 1>You're done with it, or you cut it out.

0:29:07.480 --> 0:29:10.880
<v Speaker 2>And you take some chemotherapy and maybe some radiation therapy

0:29:11.000 --> 0:29:13.800
<v Speaker 2>and then you're finished with.

0:29:13.800 --> 0:29:17.520
<v Speaker 1>It, or you can't remove it.

0:29:18.120 --> 0:29:21.000
<v Speaker 2>And the treatment or the treatatment doesn't work that well,

0:29:21.720 --> 0:29:24.800
<v Speaker 2>and it progresses and you die. But we're living in

0:29:24.840 --> 0:29:29.200
<v Speaker 2>an era where in addition to traditional chemotherapy and radiation

0:29:29.400 --> 0:29:34.480
<v Speaker 2>therapy and surgery, we now have targeted therapies, therapies that

0:29:34.520 --> 0:29:40.040
<v Speaker 2>are directed toward specific molecular abnormalities and tumors for which

0:29:40.080 --> 0:29:43.240
<v Speaker 2>there are drugs that interact in that molecular abnormality and

0:29:43.320 --> 0:29:47.160
<v Speaker 2>change the course of how the cell grows and moves

0:29:47.160 --> 0:29:50.200
<v Speaker 2>and does things. And then we also have this vast

0:29:50.280 --> 0:29:54.840
<v Speaker 2>important field of immunotherapy where we're now able to manipulate

0:29:54.880 --> 0:29:58.000
<v Speaker 2>the immune system to see the tumor cells and to

0:29:58.120 --> 0:30:02.640
<v Speaker 2>kill them. And there are tremendous drugs that are now

0:30:03.400 --> 0:30:08.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, available that are immunotherapies. And so now we

0:30:09.080 --> 0:30:11.640
<v Speaker 2>have a situation where we may not be able to eradicate.

0:30:11.840 --> 0:30:15.320
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes we can't eradicate the cancer altogether and have good

0:30:15.360 --> 0:30:19.520
<v Speaker 2>long remissions and or cures. But in some situations of

0:30:19.560 --> 0:30:23.800
<v Speaker 2>stage four where we can, we can arrest it or

0:30:24.160 --> 0:30:27.440
<v Speaker 2>put into remission and then it relapses and then another

0:30:27.480 --> 0:30:31.880
<v Speaker 2>remission and all of that, and sometimes it's possible to

0:30:31.920 --> 0:30:36.920
<v Speaker 2>piece together all those pieces into a time frame where

0:30:37.080 --> 0:30:42.520
<v Speaker 2>you're actually living out the longevity the lifetime that the

0:30:42.600 --> 0:30:45.840
<v Speaker 2>universe intended for you before you've got cancer. So I

0:30:45.840 --> 0:30:49.360
<v Speaker 2>think that that you don't have to think of stage

0:30:49.400 --> 0:30:52.560
<v Speaker 2>four cancer as and of course it varies directly, you

0:30:52.600 --> 0:30:55.959
<v Speaker 2>know immensely by cancer which type of cancer you have

0:30:56.000 --> 0:31:00.240
<v Speaker 2>to think about it necessarily that it's automatically define in

0:31:00.280 --> 0:31:04.080
<v Speaker 2>your longevity, but rather something you may have to live with.

0:31:04.480 --> 0:31:06.360
<v Speaker 2>But if you have to live with it, that's where

0:31:06.400 --> 0:31:08.640
<v Speaker 2>I say the quality of life is so important, because

0:31:09.360 --> 0:31:13.000
<v Speaker 2>when you're going ten in fifteen years and you're not

0:31:13.200 --> 0:31:16.640
<v Speaker 2>in remission, but you're not progressing, and you may be

0:31:16.720 --> 0:31:19.840
<v Speaker 2>taking some medications and pills, some infusion once a while,

0:31:20.480 --> 0:31:24.760
<v Speaker 2>but everything's okay, then you need to embrace life and

0:31:25.200 --> 0:31:30.040
<v Speaker 2>live life and not let cancer define you. And that's

0:31:30.120 --> 0:31:33.600
<v Speaker 2>what and that's one of the things that Shannon did

0:31:33.640 --> 0:31:37.480
<v Speaker 2>so well is she didn't let cancer define her. And

0:31:38.280 --> 0:31:41.120
<v Speaker 2>I say that a lot to patients when I'm meeting

0:31:41.120 --> 0:31:43.360
<v Speaker 2>with them and talking to them and beginning it's say,

0:31:43.440 --> 0:31:46.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, listen, especially if it's something where you know

0:31:46.560 --> 0:31:49.640
<v Speaker 2>we're going to be able to do some treatments and

0:31:51.200 --> 0:31:54.240
<v Speaker 2>most likely put it into a remission that will will

0:31:54.280 --> 0:31:59.000
<v Speaker 2>be a cure, you know, especially young people, young people

0:31:59.000 --> 0:32:04.640
<v Speaker 2>with Hodgkins ease or maybe testicular cancer some of those

0:32:04.640 --> 0:32:10.160
<v Speaker 2>other things that might be curable. I say, I don't

0:32:10.160 --> 0:32:12.040
<v Speaker 2>want you to become a cancer person. I want you

0:32:12.080 --> 0:32:14.520
<v Speaker 2>to be a person who once had cancer, but don't

0:32:14.520 --> 0:32:18.680
<v Speaker 2>be a cancer person because you know it. You know

0:32:18.960 --> 0:32:22.040
<v Speaker 2>it consumes you know, it does consume your life and

0:32:22.080 --> 0:32:25.280
<v Speaker 2>your identity, and it's always going to be a part

0:32:25.280 --> 0:32:27.240
<v Speaker 2>of your history, but it shouldn't be a part of

0:32:27.280 --> 0:32:30.640
<v Speaker 2>your you know, your identity. And a lot of times

0:32:30.680 --> 0:32:37.800
<v Speaker 2>people they find incredible wealth of point of view and

0:32:37.880 --> 0:32:42.480
<v Speaker 2>even sort of patina on life after having gone through it.

0:32:42.680 --> 0:32:47.400
<v Speaker 2>Some people just have terrible PTSD and are just so fearful,

0:32:47.800 --> 0:32:50.480
<v Speaker 2>and it really very adversely affects them, even if they're

0:32:50.720 --> 0:32:54.160
<v Speaker 2>in remission or cured. But some people, if they dig deep,

0:32:54.520 --> 0:32:59.120
<v Speaker 2>who've dug very deep and really looked at it, they

0:32:59.760 --> 0:33:04.880
<v Speaker 2>find if I'm new meaning. And I've even had some

0:33:05.280 --> 0:33:09.920
<v Speaker 2>artists in musicians who you know, really were not being

0:33:09.960 --> 0:33:14.000
<v Speaker 2>that successful. They were great musicians, but they hadn't hit

0:33:14.080 --> 0:33:18.440
<v Speaker 2>that kind of place where they really took off, you know,

0:33:18.520 --> 0:33:22.920
<v Speaker 2>before having cancer and then and then once they had

0:33:23.000 --> 0:33:26.720
<v Speaker 2>the cancer experience, I said to them, listen, I want

0:33:26.800 --> 0:33:29.320
<v Speaker 2>you to know that you're going to go through this

0:33:29.400 --> 0:33:33.000
<v Speaker 2>journey and it's going to give you grit, and it's

0:33:33.000 --> 0:33:37.160
<v Speaker 2>going to give you, you know, gravitas, and it's going

0:33:37.200 --> 0:33:40.680
<v Speaker 2>to give you life experience that is not going to

0:33:40.760 --> 0:33:43.640
<v Speaker 2>feel very good, but it's going to give you something

0:33:43.680 --> 0:33:44.520
<v Speaker 2>to talk about.

0:33:45.000 --> 0:33:47.800
<v Speaker 1>It's going to give you something to feel. And if

0:33:47.840 --> 0:33:52.720
<v Speaker 1>you if you really process this both in your mind

0:33:52.760 --> 0:33:56.600
<v Speaker 1>and your heart, but in your music, you will have

0:33:56.760 --> 0:34:02.040
<v Speaker 1>the most successful career that you possibly have coming out

0:34:02.040 --> 0:34:06.960
<v Speaker 1>of this. And there have been many occasions where I've

0:34:06.960 --> 0:34:10.439
<v Speaker 1>been one hundred percent correct about that that they really

0:34:10.480 --> 0:34:18.120
<v Speaker 1>took off during and after this therapy because they they

0:34:18.160 --> 0:34:19.719
<v Speaker 1>had they now knew how.

0:34:19.640 --> 0:34:23.840
<v Speaker 2>To say stories and say things that that relate to

0:34:23.840 --> 0:34:28.560
<v Speaker 2>other people. You know that they lived life. They lived

0:34:28.600 --> 0:34:33.359
<v Speaker 2>life in the grittiest, most difficult way they could, and

0:34:33.400 --> 0:34:36.719
<v Speaker 2>that causes you to just see it all differently and

0:34:36.840 --> 0:34:40.160
<v Speaker 2>to be able to tell the story in a way

0:34:40.200 --> 0:34:45.920
<v Speaker 2>that moves others. So I think that instead of thinking

0:34:45.960 --> 0:34:49.640
<v Speaker 2>of this as a scary, big thing, we should think

0:34:49.640 --> 0:34:51.840
<v Speaker 2>about it as just one of those things that can't

0:34:51.880 --> 0:34:57.040
<v Speaker 2>happen and you embrace it and whatever the circumstances are,

0:34:57.520 --> 0:35:00.239
<v Speaker 2>but you try to, you know, you try to own it,

0:35:00.320 --> 0:35:03.800
<v Speaker 2>and you try to use it to build yourself forward

0:35:03.880 --> 0:35:04.359
<v Speaker 2>if you can.

0:35:05.840 --> 0:35:08.160
<v Speaker 1>Not everyone has that. Not everyone has that opportunity.

0:35:08.200 --> 0:35:11.720
<v Speaker 2>Of course, it's quite a vary thing, but I think

0:35:12.480 --> 0:35:14.600
<v Speaker 2>I think that's the way you have to begin looking

0:35:14.640 --> 0:35:18.640
<v Speaker 2>at it and know that the universe has a wisdom

0:35:18.680 --> 0:35:24.760
<v Speaker 2>about it and for whatever reason, you know, your destiny

0:35:24.840 --> 0:35:27.759
<v Speaker 2>had this piece in it, and so how can you

0:35:27.800 --> 0:35:33.040
<v Speaker 2>take this piece and turn it into something that makes

0:35:33.080 --> 0:35:35.920
<v Speaker 2>the next phase of your life, you know, even richer

0:35:36.040 --> 0:35:40.520
<v Speaker 2>and better and sort of more unexpectedly amazing. I think

0:35:41.040 --> 0:35:43.600
<v Speaker 2>one of the things when you think about a person

0:35:44.560 --> 0:35:48.239
<v Speaker 2>that you've known and their time comes to an end,

0:35:49.880 --> 0:35:55.839
<v Speaker 2>I think it's very important to reflect what did that

0:35:55.920 --> 0:36:00.319
<v Speaker 2>person leave me with? How am I changed from from

0:36:00.360 --> 0:36:09.680
<v Speaker 2>her or from him or them? How I changed? Because

0:36:10.080 --> 0:36:21.360
<v Speaker 2>every person that you commit real time to helps uncover

0:36:21.520 --> 0:36:24.120
<v Speaker 2>pieces of you that you wouldn't have uncovered have they

0:36:24.160 --> 0:36:27.120
<v Speaker 2>not entered your life. You think of your life in

0:36:27.160 --> 0:36:30.160
<v Speaker 2>a way as kind of a big jigsaw puzzle. If

0:36:30.160 --> 0:36:34.160
<v Speaker 2>you think part of the mission of life, maybe the

0:36:34.200 --> 0:36:38.239
<v Speaker 2>most important mission of life is to turnover as many

0:36:38.280 --> 0:36:42.600
<v Speaker 2>of those pieces as you can in the time that

0:36:42.640 --> 0:36:46.839
<v Speaker 2>you have, so that by the time you're finished, you've

0:36:46.880 --> 0:36:53.640
<v Speaker 2>revealed the clearest picture of who you uniquely were. And

0:36:54.520 --> 0:36:57.920
<v Speaker 2>the more pieces you turn over, the better that picture is.

0:36:58.440 --> 0:37:01.920
<v Speaker 2>And that who you are takes into account your gifts

0:37:01.960 --> 0:37:07.080
<v Speaker 2>and your talents, and your commitments and your intelligence and

0:37:07.160 --> 0:37:11.080
<v Speaker 2>all the unique features that each of us has. And

0:37:11.160 --> 0:37:14.680
<v Speaker 2>so when people come into our lives, they help us

0:37:14.719 --> 0:37:17.000
<v Speaker 2>turn over pieces of that puzzle that we wouldn't have

0:37:17.080 --> 0:37:19.799
<v Speaker 2>turned over on our own because we maybe you didn't

0:37:19.800 --> 0:37:22.760
<v Speaker 2>have the courage to, or we didn't really know anything

0:37:22.800 --> 0:37:27.160
<v Speaker 2>about that part of who we were. We never had

0:37:27.200 --> 0:37:29.400
<v Speaker 2>anyone in our life that was like that, And so

0:37:30.080 --> 0:37:33.520
<v Speaker 2>they challenged you into your discomfort zone, and you, for

0:37:33.520 --> 0:37:36.879
<v Speaker 2>some reason, trust them and go there and learn things

0:37:36.920 --> 0:37:43.440
<v Speaker 2>about yourself. So I think that you know, with Shannon,

0:37:43.520 --> 0:37:46.920
<v Speaker 2>if you knew her from Afar, you know through her

0:37:46.960 --> 0:37:47.600
<v Speaker 2>work and all that.

0:37:47.719 --> 0:37:50.400
<v Speaker 1>I think, watching the way she lived her.

0:37:50.239 --> 0:37:53.560
<v Speaker 2>Life and all that, you might ask yourself, what did

0:37:53.600 --> 0:37:57.520
<v Speaker 2>she leave me with? And that becomes her everlasting, you know,

0:37:57.800 --> 0:38:03.799
<v Speaker 2>contribution to you. I know, for example, you know I

0:38:03.800 --> 0:38:08.200
<v Speaker 2>had the great pleasure of being Pharah Fawcet's doctor. And

0:38:09.480 --> 0:38:15.080
<v Speaker 2>she was an incredible woman. And as you may remember,

0:38:15.239 --> 0:38:15.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, she.

0:38:17.600 --> 0:38:22.080
<v Speaker 1>Left Charlie's Angels when it was the top television show

0:38:22.160 --> 0:38:27.440
<v Speaker 1>and perhaps perhaps the first television show maybe ever not

0:38:27.520 --> 0:38:31.760
<v Speaker 1>sure to be a number one TV show with all women,

0:38:32.360 --> 0:38:35.760
<v Speaker 1>three women as the stars. And she left the show

0:38:35.840 --> 0:38:40.880
<v Speaker 1>after only about a year because she wanted other things.

0:38:41.280 --> 0:38:46.200
<v Speaker 1>And most people would be afraid to do that when

0:38:46.239 --> 0:38:49.640
<v Speaker 1>you get such stardom of that type, that would be

0:38:49.680 --> 0:38:50.640
<v Speaker 1>afraid to leave.

0:38:51.320 --> 0:38:57.239
<v Speaker 2>But Farah Fawcett was fearless. And she wore a bracelet

0:38:57.360 --> 0:39:03.320
<v Speaker 2>and ankle bracelet around her ankle had some silver beads

0:39:03.360 --> 0:39:06.800
<v Speaker 2>on it, and on those beads or inscribed the word

0:39:07.080 --> 0:39:13.080
<v Speaker 2>fearless in Sanskrit. And I always remember that because she

0:39:13.239 --> 0:39:16.480
<v Speaker 2>was fearless and you can see that in the choices

0:39:16.520 --> 0:39:22.760
<v Speaker 2>that she made throughout her career, and that was really

0:39:22.800 --> 0:39:25.480
<v Speaker 2>a very defining feature of who Faarah was. And she

0:39:25.640 --> 0:39:30.480
<v Speaker 2>left me with that message very strongly, to try to

0:39:30.680 --> 0:39:34.239
<v Speaker 2>not live a life guided by fear, but to live

0:39:34.280 --> 0:39:38.560
<v Speaker 2>a life embracing the light of what you want and

0:39:38.600 --> 0:39:41.880
<v Speaker 2>to try to go for that, whether you succeed or not.

0:39:42.960 --> 0:39:51.279
<v Speaker 2>And Shannon had similar, very similar qualities. Shannon was also fearless.

0:39:51.480 --> 0:39:57.279
<v Speaker 2>When she believed in something, she was embraced it and

0:39:57.320 --> 0:39:58.880
<v Speaker 2>stood up for it and.

0:40:00.600 --> 0:40:01.200
<v Speaker 1>Went for it.

0:40:02.040 --> 0:40:05.080
<v Speaker 2>And that was manifest if you look at at her

0:40:05.120 --> 0:40:09.880
<v Speaker 2>career as well as manifest in her personal and social interactions.

0:40:09.920 --> 0:40:15.000
<v Speaker 2>But it was manifest by what I'll give you is

0:40:15.040 --> 0:40:19.759
<v Speaker 2>the way I describe it and something that you know,

0:40:20.320 --> 0:40:24.000
<v Speaker 2>I think this is always my best way to describe

0:40:25.000 --> 0:40:29.920
<v Speaker 2>what Shannon did, and that's Shannon always did Shannon. Shannon

0:40:30.120 --> 0:40:36.520
<v Speaker 2>always did Shannon, and you should always do you. That's

0:40:36.560 --> 0:40:38.839
<v Speaker 2>what I believe is the last thing legacy and if

0:40:39.760 --> 0:40:42.200
<v Speaker 2>and that's I believe Shannon would have to say, because

0:40:44.040 --> 0:40:48.279
<v Speaker 2>whether it had consequences or not, if she thought she

0:40:48.360 --> 0:40:52.480
<v Speaker 2>had to do it, she did it, and she always

0:40:52.560 --> 0:40:55.000
<v Speaker 2>did it, you know, true to her set of principles.

0:40:55.040 --> 0:40:58.400
<v Speaker 2>So Shannon always did Shannon. And I would say that

0:40:59.800 --> 0:41:03.399
<v Speaker 2>the best legacies you could have and the best way

0:41:03.440 --> 0:41:07.040
<v Speaker 2>you could honor her, and maybe the best way that

0:41:07.080 --> 0:41:10.920
<v Speaker 2>you can live your own life to the fullest, and

0:41:12.320 --> 0:41:16.160
<v Speaker 2>in some way similar way Shannon would be to always

0:41:16.160 --> 0:41:17.560
<v Speaker 2>do you. M h

0:41:19.160 --> 0:41:21.320
<v Speaker 1>M hmmmmmmmmm