1
00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,680
Speaker 1: This is let's be clear with Shannon, Drney a little

2
00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,360
Speaker 1: Let's be clear family. This is doctor Lawrence Pirou.

3
00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,640
Speaker 2: I'm the president CEO of the Angelus Clinic and Research Institute,

4
00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,480
Speaker 2: an oncologist, and most of you listening to this know

5
00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:23,720
Speaker 2: me because I was Shannon's doctor and Shannon's friend. And

6
00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,040
Speaker 2: this is really the first time I've talked about Shannon

7
00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,639
Speaker 2: since she passed away. I wasn't even sure I wanted

8
00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,839
Speaker 2: to do that. It's been hard to talk about her,

9
00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:37,720
Speaker 2: even amongst family and friends. Oh, because you know, she

10
00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,919
Speaker 2: was bigger than life. She was so big and so present,

11
00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,559
Speaker 2: and when she was in your life, she was, you know,

12
00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,480
Speaker 2: hugely in your life. And so it actually doesn't seem

13
00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:54,640
Speaker 2: like she's gone. It seems like she's on location doing

14
00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,920
Speaker 2: a film or series somewhere and she's working super long hours,

15
00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,639
Speaker 2: and so we're not really talking very much. And that

16
00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,640
Speaker 2: kind of makes the processing of all of it, you know,

17
00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,800
Speaker 2: a little bit more more difficult, because there's still the

18
00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,839
Speaker 2: idea that, you know, when that gig is done, she'll

19
00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,600
Speaker 2: be back and we'll be having dinners and long conversations

20
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,800
Speaker 2: and talking and about all the things and doing all

21
00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,600
Speaker 2: the things that we always did. And so when I

22
00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:23,600
Speaker 2: was thinking about whether I wanted to do this, and

23
00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,399
Speaker 2: I sat down with Rosa, we had a chat. I

24
00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,720
Speaker 2: see Rose all the time. I take care of Rose

25
00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:34,400
Speaker 2: as well, and I know all of you are concerned

26
00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:38,640
Speaker 2: about her too. So Rosa's doing fine. She's she lives

27
00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,840
Speaker 2: in Shannon's house, and she's taking care of the dogs

28
00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,720
Speaker 2: and doing all the things that she did before, and

29
00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,120
Speaker 2: she's you know, she's grieving.

30
00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:49,480
Speaker 1: It's a long process.

31
00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,120
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, Shannon started acting on sets at ten,

32
00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,520
Speaker 2: and Rosa was with her all the time because she

33
00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,520
Speaker 2: didn't want to trust her to any other kind of

34
00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,800
Speaker 2: you know, on set keeper. So Shannon and Rosa have

35
00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,160
Speaker 2: been obviously together all their lives, but they've been joined

36
00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:11,000
Speaker 2: at the hip, and in the sense of when Shannon

37
00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,679
Speaker 2: became kind of a professional adult at ten, if you

38
00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:15,400
Speaker 2: were not certainly not an adult, but you know what

39
00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,560
Speaker 2: I mean, a working person with her own opinions and things.

40
00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,040
Speaker 1: They've been joined at the hip from then forward.

41
00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:26,400
Speaker 2: And Shannon and Rosa with Shannon for so much of

42
00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,200
Speaker 2: everything that Shannon did, you know, if she went places,

43
00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,520
Speaker 2: if she did things, all of that sort of thing,

44
00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,040
Speaker 2: they were together. So you can imagine that just the

45
00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,360
Speaker 2: you know, the the sheer emptiness of Shannon now being there,

46
00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:42,480
Speaker 2: you know, is certainly hard for her.

47
00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:48,079
Speaker 1: And then her mother and you know, all of that, but.

48
00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:53,000
Speaker 2: She's actually processing it very well, very naturally and normally

49
00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:54,400
Speaker 2: though difficult.

50
00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,160
Speaker 1: It's difficult, but she's doing well.

51
00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,799
Speaker 2: And she she you know, she's so dedicated to Shannon's

52
00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:05,200
Speaker 2: fans and to their you know, memory of Shannon, and

53
00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,840
Speaker 2: they're keeping Shannon's memories alive and their loyalty to Shannon.

54
00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,440
Speaker 2: And so I should I should express that to you,

55
00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,480
Speaker 2: you know, on her behalf. She wanted me to to

56
00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,960
Speaker 2: express that because it's very meaningful to her, and it's

57
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:20,200
Speaker 2: a great sense of.

58
00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:26,639
Speaker 1: It's a great sense of sort of peacefulness and recognition. Really.

59
00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:28,680
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like when you lose someone, to know

60
00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,800
Speaker 2: that they're you know, loved and recognized by so many people.

61
00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:35,880
Speaker 1: It's a great consolation, That's what I should say.

62
00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,160
Speaker 2: It's a great consolation and and she feels that, and

63
00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:43,720
Speaker 2: so I passed that along to all of you. You know,

64
00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:49,200
Speaker 2: people have asked me a lot, not just fans from Afar,

65
00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:54,960
Speaker 2: but also people who saw Shannon with me, you know,

66
00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:59,400
Speaker 2: socially at places you know, a few weeks before she died,

67
00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,320
Speaker 2: and she looked so great when we were out to

68
00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:04,840
Speaker 2: dinner and did not.

69
00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:06,520
Speaker 1: Look sick and all of that.

70
00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,680
Speaker 2: So when news of her death came, you know, was

71
00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:15,120
Speaker 2: particularly shocking. People knew she had a long journey with cancer,

72
00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:19,400
Speaker 2: but nobody was really expecting that she was going to

73
00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:21,920
Speaker 2: pass away at that time.

74
00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:24,960
Speaker 1: And that is due to several reasons.

75
00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:30,479
Speaker 2: One is that, you know, Shannon, it's incredibly healthy and

76
00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:35,640
Speaker 2: great at putting herself together, and she looked great even

77
00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:37,040
Speaker 2: no matter how sick she was.

78
00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:42,839
Speaker 1: She really really looked great. You know, there were no

79
00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,800
Speaker 1: limitations of her movements or anything like that, so there

80
00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:49,600
Speaker 1: were really no no visible evidence to others who didn't know,

81
00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,279
Speaker 1: you know, how much the disease had progressed, that it

82
00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,239
Speaker 1: had progressed that much, and you know what, she didn't

83
00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:56,320
Speaker 1: want anybody to know.

84
00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:01,960
Speaker 2: She absolutely didn't really want anybody to know. And they

85
00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:03,720
Speaker 2: knew that she had stage four cancer, but she didn't

86
00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,479
Speaker 2: want anyone to know exactly where it was at.

87
00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,799
Speaker 1: Because she wasn't looking for you know, sympathy.

88
00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,440
Speaker 2: She was fighting every day, you know, fully forward and

89
00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:14,640
Speaker 2: she wanted to look good and look active and live

90
00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:19,680
Speaker 2: her full on life and things just you know, hit

91
00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:24,479
Speaker 2: a turning point and happened very quickly.

92
00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:26,000
Speaker 1: You know.

93
00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,400
Speaker 2: It was probably that she was so well compensated for

94
00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:35,720
Speaker 2: so long despite the condition of things, that after it

95
00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:40,480
Speaker 2: hit a certain critical point, then it couldn't be compensated anymore.

96
00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:45,200
Speaker 2: And and so then things went you know, relatively quickly.

97
00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:48,000
Speaker 1: And but but.

98
00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,800
Speaker 2: The job at that point was for her to be very,

99
00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:55,320
Speaker 2: very comfortable and and and so she was.

100
00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:56,920
Speaker 1: I think that.

101
00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,839
Speaker 2: Sometimes people want under like, how could it have turned

102
00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:07,839
Speaker 2: to stage or they don't really understand that that particular

103
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,080
Speaker 2: process of what happened. And you know, she did very

104
00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:15,080
Speaker 2: well after her initial therapy and you know, did you

105
00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,359
Speaker 2: very aggressive treatment on her, and she was in a

106
00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:23,560
Speaker 2: great remission. And then on you know, routine follow up,

107
00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,640
Speaker 2: it turned up. And people have asked, well, wouldn't it

108
00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,240
Speaker 2: turn up on skins and things. Yes, that's exactly what happened.

109
00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:36,680
Speaker 2: It turned up on routine follow up. She's completely having

110
00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,640
Speaker 2: no symptoms or anything, and it turned up, you know,

111
00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:47,320
Speaker 2: just unexpectedly, and and it was not there was not

112
00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:52,680
Speaker 2: very much there, but it had spread in a way

113
00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,240
Speaker 2: that it was stage four And so that changed our

114
00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,880
Speaker 2: journey and changed our course of treatments and changed the

115
00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,280
Speaker 2: balance of things, you know, for her, and so then

116
00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,599
Speaker 2: she had to make different choices about things and what

117
00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,800
Speaker 2: was important to her. But we, you know, marched on

118
00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,840
Speaker 2: for a very very very long time, and she did

119
00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:13,880
Speaker 2: so well, and she lived her life to the fullest.

120
00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:18,800
Speaker 2: And as everyone's surprised to see how active she was

121
00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,840
Speaker 2: and how much she was doing and then suddenly she

122
00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:23,640
Speaker 2: was gone.

123
00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,679
Speaker 1: That shows you that she lived every day to the fullest,

124
00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:29,200
Speaker 1: all way up to the very end.

125
00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,200
Speaker 2: And also people have asked me about clinical trials for her,

126
00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,840
Speaker 2: and yes, we looked at many clinical trials along the way.

127
00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:43,400
Speaker 2: Clinical trials are complicated because they're very rigidly structured, so

128
00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:47,800
Speaker 2: you have to have certain criteria and you have to

129
00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:53,280
Speaker 2: meet those criteria. And what clinical trials you know, might

130
00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:57,160
Speaker 2: have been interesting to us for her particular situation were

131
00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:01,920
Speaker 2: things that she couldn't fit those criteria for a variety

132
00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,280
Speaker 2: of reasons that are you know, beyond really what we

133
00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:09,040
Speaker 2: want to discuss here. But she just couldn't fit the

134
00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:15,760
Speaker 2: exact clinical trial criteria for those and so we didn't

135
00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,000
Speaker 2: ever enter into a clinical trial per se.

136
00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:21,320
Speaker 1: You know. One of the things that was so interesting

137
00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:24,120
Speaker 1: and meaningful.

138
00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,600
Speaker 2: In the last year of her life was this podcast,

139
00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,160
Speaker 2: you know, and so that this podcast holds a very

140
00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:37,360
Speaker 2: special place in my heart because Shanna was very, very smart.

141
00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,480
Speaker 2: You know, she she grew up being educated on set

142
00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,600
Speaker 2: because she was acting since ten pretty much continuously. Little

143
00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,120
Speaker 2: House on the Prairie and nine O two one zero

144
00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:49,520
Speaker 2: and Charmed and all that.

145
00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,960
Speaker 1: But when she's going through her education and it's.

146
00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:58,599
Speaker 2: Just you know, she was, you know, voracious about information

147
00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:08,640
Speaker 2: and incredibly intelligent, and so she always made her opinions

148
00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:13,160
Speaker 2: based on facts and her own thought process. And you know,

149
00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:17,200
Speaker 2: different people are attracted to different things than other people.

150
00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:21,199
Speaker 2: You know, some people are attracted to people because they're,

151
00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,240
Speaker 2: you know, whatever, pretty, or they're tall, or they're short,

152
00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:28,480
Speaker 2: or they're athletic, or the certain color hair, or you know,

153
00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,120
Speaker 2: what they do for a living or whatever it is.

154
00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:35,439
Speaker 2: Shannon was attracted to minds, She was attracted to intelligence,

155
00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,480
Speaker 2: and she loved a great conversation and she could carry

156
00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,720
Speaker 2: on a great conversation. Was a great participant in conversations,

157
00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,520
Speaker 2: and she came prepared, you know, she came prepared with

158
00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,080
Speaker 2: you know, with facts and things. She didn't just glob

159
00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:54,560
Speaker 2: onto opinions of other people or opinions that were not

160
00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:58,240
Speaker 2: well founded in facts. And I think that's why she

161
00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,559
Speaker 2: wound up up making opinions about certain things along her

162
00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:05,440
Speaker 2: career that she took stands on that sometimes you know,

163
00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:11,600
Speaker 2: cost her in terms of her career because she, you know,

164
00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,400
Speaker 2: felt very strongly about those things. But if you also

165
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,240
Speaker 2: look at those things, they were there across the board.

166
00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,400
Speaker 2: They're not all a group of opinions or thoughts or

167
00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:27,280
Speaker 2: ideas or or or or you know, political positions or

168
00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:32,120
Speaker 2: personal positions that that all, you know, are all clustered

169
00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,680
Speaker 2: around a particular thing like being conservative or being liberal,

170
00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,800
Speaker 2: or you know, being you know, any of these labels

171
00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,000
Speaker 2: that you want to use for different things. None of

172
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,240
Speaker 2: those labels fit. It was Shannon. It was Shannon's world,

173
00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,360
Speaker 2: and it was her opinion. And and so she, you know,

174
00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,000
Speaker 2: she's stood up for women's wages because she felt that

175
00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,920
Speaker 2: was right. But by the same token, she might not

176
00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,440
Speaker 2: have stood up for something else that would be congruous

177
00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,440
Speaker 2: with that point of view, because her analysis was different.

178
00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:06,359
Speaker 2: And I love that about her because it made her unpredictable,

179
00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:11,760
Speaker 2: but you know, intelligently unpredictable in the way we all

180
00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:16,600
Speaker 2: should be where we are finding our voice and our

181
00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,400
Speaker 2: message is based on facts and beliefs and truth, not

182
00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,880
Speaker 2: based on what another group of people, UH think we

183
00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,680
Speaker 2: should believe or or if you have a certain label

184
00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:31,760
Speaker 2: on you belonging to a certain religion or party or

185
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:36,040
Speaker 2: or group or whatever association, that you have.

186
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,840
Speaker 1: To now have the opinions associated with that.

187
00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,679
Speaker 2: We should all be making our own opinions and our

188
00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,400
Speaker 2: own on the basis of facts and the basis of passion.

189
00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,679
Speaker 1: And she did that so well, that's that's something I

190
00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:53,960
Speaker 1: think that's something that all of you probably recognize.

191
00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,760
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe maybe you did recognize that exactly literally like

192
00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,439
Speaker 2: I'm saying it, But inherently you recog did her personality,

193
00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,080
Speaker 2: which is why you know, you became so attracted to her,

194
00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,520
Speaker 2: attached to her, because because that's how she was, you know,

195
00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,080
Speaker 2: and she went hard for the things that she believed

196
00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,760
Speaker 2: in and felt strongly about, and she shouldn't pay a

197
00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:17,800
Speaker 2: lot of attention to the things that she didn't. She

198
00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:19,959
Speaker 2: wasn't trying to control the world. She wasn't trying to

199
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,800
Speaker 2: control every topic, and she wasn't trying to control other people.

200
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:27,040
Speaker 1: She was just trying to move the needle forward for

201
00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:31,319
Speaker 1: those issues and those those causes that she felt important.

202
00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:36,720
Speaker 1: And that is you know, so many long dinners and.

203
00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:42,480
Speaker 2: Long conversations that were rooted in that. And you know,

204
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:44,520
Speaker 2: if you look in today's world, I mean it's a

205
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:50,080
Speaker 2: fast moving world, and you know television, things go and

206
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:55,320
Speaker 2: snippets very quickly, and everything's about sound bites and pretty quick.

207
00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,160
Speaker 2: In life now there are that many people that can

208
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,160
Speaker 2: sit down with a glass of wine and slip a

209
00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:05,599
Speaker 2: glass of wine over three hours and have an intense, intelligent,

210
00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:10,080
Speaker 2: fact based conversation that doesn't have fights her arguments in it.

211
00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:15,839
Speaker 2: It has meaningful exchange and an openness with the possibility

212
00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:19,040
Speaker 2: that you know, you might lead the conversation, you know,

213
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:20,920
Speaker 2: with a different point of view than you came with.

214
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:22,199
Speaker 1: Because that's what makes you a winner.

215
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,000
Speaker 2: Right when you're in a conversation, and if you're just

216
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,719
Speaker 2: trying to hammer home your point, only.

217
00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:30,320
Speaker 1: What do you win from that? Right?

218
00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,160
Speaker 2: But if you if you're in a conversation and you

219
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:37,199
Speaker 2: actually learn some new facts or develop some new opinions,

220
00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,320
Speaker 2: or we can't become more more open or broad minded,

221
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,839
Speaker 2: or understand an issue in a way you didn't before,

222
00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,640
Speaker 2: then you've really won. You've really left the evening with

223
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,880
Speaker 2: something of value. And that was always the case with Shannon.

224
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,559
Speaker 2: You would you would leave the evening with something value.

225
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,760
Speaker 2: Now I'm not saying that she didn't fight for her point.

226
00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,679
Speaker 2: Oh boy, did she ever five her points. She's very

227
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,040
Speaker 2: tough for her points, and I loved it. But she

228
00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:06,840
Speaker 2: always did it with facts and with playfulness and with humor.

229
00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,920
Speaker 2: And that was great because she could laugh at herself

230
00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,560
Speaker 2: and she could laugh at situations she didn't.

231
00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:19,120
Speaker 1: Really she really enjoyed life. I mean she really, she

232
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,240
Speaker 1: really grabbed it, you know. And I talked before.

233
00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,600
Speaker 2: About some of the dinner she would have, and like

234
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,280
Speaker 2: you know, dinner with Shannon at her house was Shannon

235
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,560
Speaker 2: in the kitchen cooking. She would always put out a

236
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:40,000
Speaker 2: beautiful on apasta as appetizers, which by the time we

237
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,360
Speaker 2: were done with this amazing bread and you know, fantastic

238
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:48,840
Speaker 2: cheeses and beautiful meats and vegetables and other things, it's like,

239
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,520
Speaker 2: we're really going to eat some more now. But then

240
00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,560
Speaker 2: would come pizzas. She was a she was an absolute

241
00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,960
Speaker 2: master at pizza. So then would come a course of pizzas.

242
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:05,360
Speaker 2: Usually that would be sensational and there were almost always

243
00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,720
Speaker 2: three or four different types, so everybody had a taste

244
00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:13,040
Speaker 2: to suit them, and then would come maybe apasta course.

245
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,760
Speaker 1: Or maybe meat, you know, but always something delicious.

246
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:18,720
Speaker 2: The only thing is she had served very much as

247
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,120
Speaker 2: fish because she didn't like fish, didn't eat fish much,

248
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:23,840
Speaker 2: but she did I remember on one occasion she did

249
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,240
Speaker 2: serve fish along with other things. So she knew how

250
00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:28,800
Speaker 2: to cook it and she would serve it for others,

251
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:33,280
Speaker 2: but she wasn't big on eating fish herself. She also

252
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,280
Speaker 2: was so into food that, you know, she was up

253
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,760
Speaker 2: on every new restaurant when it would open, and she would,

254
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:43,640
Speaker 2: you know, she would get introduced and she would arrange

255
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,960
Speaker 2: a dinner there, somebody's birthday dinner or just a general dinner,

256
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,440
Speaker 2: and we would try all the dishes, kind of all

257
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,960
Speaker 2: to divide and conquer order different kinds of dishes and

258
00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:59,440
Speaker 2: people could taste them. And she was very definitive about

259
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,800
Speaker 2: that as well. She you know, she did a very

260
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:06,920
Speaker 2: good vocabulary of cuisine and a good and a good palette,

261
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,600
Speaker 2: and so she could very easily get to the bottom

262
00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,520
Speaker 2: of whether she was going back to that restaurant or not,

263
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,600
Speaker 2: you know, anytime soon. It was pretty you know, pretty great,

264
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,960
Speaker 2: pretty great. A lot of fun, such a so so

265
00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,600
Speaker 2: very much fun. And I think that's why she didn't.

266
00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:28,280
Speaker 2: She didn't want to do anything but live life to

267
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,480
Speaker 2: the full. She wanted to share her journey with you

268
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:35,960
Speaker 2: and tell you about about the cancer and and be

269
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,200
Speaker 2: able to have camaraderie with others that had it and

270
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:43,480
Speaker 2: inspire them and you know, connected them. But she didn't

271
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,360
Speaker 2: want that to define her life. She she wasn't a

272
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,120
Speaker 2: cancer person, you know. I don't think of her end

273
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,160
Speaker 2: that way. Yes, she had a long, long journey with him,

274
00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,880
Speaker 2: but she wasn't She wasn't a cancer person, you know.

275
00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,440
Speaker 2: And there are sort of two kinds of people when

276
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,400
Speaker 2: it comes, when it's coming towards the end.

277
00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:03,600
Speaker 1: There are people who need to.

278
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:08,000
Speaker 2: Acknowledge coming toward the end and embrace that, you know,

279
00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,720
Speaker 2: maybe you know, do a set of activities to a

280
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,800
Speaker 2: group of people, you know, things that you maybe want

281
00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:15,119
Speaker 2: to do.

282
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:18,440
Speaker 1: And other people who.

283
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:20,800
Speaker 2: Just they know it, but they just want to live

284
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:23,919
Speaker 2: every day as fully as possible and not have that

285
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,320
Speaker 2: be a part of their active existence that it's getting

286
00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:28,000
Speaker 2: towards the end.

287
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,120
Speaker 1: And that's why.

288
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,119
Speaker 2: I think, you know, you saw her full tilt and

289
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,760
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden you know it was done.

290
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,760
Speaker 2: In fact, though she did she did have a quote

291
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,760
Speaker 2: unquote bucket list. Though I don't think she you know,

292
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:46,760
Speaker 2: I don't think it was a kind of bucket list

293
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,800
Speaker 2: where she felt like, you know, I better get that

294
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,840
Speaker 2: list organized real, for real, fit really fast, you know,

295
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,480
Speaker 2: because I'm going to have that short of a time.

296
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:57,800
Speaker 2: I think it was a bigger, more long thing. But

297
00:17:57,880 --> 00:17:59,080
Speaker 2: she did have a bucket list.

298
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:01,400
Speaker 1: I don't love that.

299
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,240
Speaker 2: I don't love that term myself only because I just,

300
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,639
Speaker 2: you know, I just believe in enjoying the fullness of

301
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,520
Speaker 2: something for what it is, and the idea that when

302
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:14,679
Speaker 2: it's doing it so it gets, you know, sort of

303
00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,200
Speaker 2: crossed off the list before your time is done has

304
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,960
Speaker 2: a I don't know, it changes a little bit for me,

305
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,520
Speaker 2: but I know many people use that term. But and

306
00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,280
Speaker 2: she used to every once in a while, mainly when

307
00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,879
Speaker 2: she got offered the opportunity to do something that she

308
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,520
Speaker 2: really wanted to do. She's like, you know, one of

309
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,040
Speaker 2: the trips that we did, she goes, I know, you

310
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,360
Speaker 2: invited me because you knew that was on my bucket list,

311
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,639
Speaker 2: and I was like, actually, I invited you because I

312
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,160
Speaker 2: thought it would be fun and I thought you would

313
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,000
Speaker 2: have a great time, and I wasn't really thinking about

314
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:45,760
Speaker 2: your bucket list.

315
00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,560
Speaker 1: But you can put it that way if you want to.

316
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:50,560
Speaker 1: It was and.

317
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:52,680
Speaker 2: Of course, like a comment like that would turn into

318
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,600
Speaker 2: a very jovial like discussion of bucket list and we

319
00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:58,760
Speaker 2: would go back and forth and it would wind up

320
00:18:58,960 --> 00:18:59,800
Speaker 2: ending with a laugh.

321
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:01,919
Speaker 1: But it was, it was, it was.

322
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:10,679
Speaker 2: It was really really amazing, really amazing human, amazing conversationalists,

323
00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:19,600
Speaker 2: you know, amazing actress, amazing wits, so many things to

324
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:24,160
Speaker 2: to enjoy, which again, you know, it's just I'm sure,

325
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,640
Speaker 2: like in the middle of this, I have my ringer

326
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:29,240
Speaker 2: off right now my phone since I'm doing this podcast.

327
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,320
Speaker 2: But I'm telling you, if I had the ringer on,

328
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,600
Speaker 2: I would be relatively sure she'd be calling at some

329
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:37,119
Speaker 2: point because I'm really not at all. You know, it

330
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,520
Speaker 2: doesn't feel at all like she's not just you know,

331
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,439
Speaker 2: off working somewhere and being quiet for a minute. Because

332
00:19:44,440 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 2: of that, you know, Shannon was very honest in her

333
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,639
Speaker 2: her you know, conversations in the podcast about the decisions

334
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,239
Speaker 2: that she made, and because she was so smart and

335
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:10,720
Speaker 2: so definitive, you know, she participated in every decision and

336
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,520
Speaker 2: she owned it, you know, and that's the thing, you know,

337
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:20,240
Speaker 2: she owned her decision making. She never said, you know,

338
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:21,960
Speaker 2: why did I do this or why did I do that.

339
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,480
Speaker 2: She made the decision, made the best decisions she could,

340
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,720
Speaker 2: and that was it. And then there was a go forward.

341
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,399
Speaker 2: There was no review later if it didn't turn out

342
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:29,920
Speaker 2: the way she.

343
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:30,600
Speaker 1: Hoped it would.

344
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:36,639
Speaker 2: And and we talked about, you know, the reasons that

345
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:41,080
Speaker 2: she didn't take you know, tmoxiden in the very beginning,

346
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:48,040
Speaker 2: because she had been on you know, hormone blockade for

347
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 2: a little while for a few months and didn't really

348
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,840
Speaker 2: like you know, the feeling and what.

349
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:54,400
Speaker 1: It did to her.

350
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 2: And so after we finished chemo and surgery and radiation,

351
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:04,960
Speaker 2: she'd want to go on that. And I brought it

352
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,960
Speaker 2: up with her every single time that we met in

353
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,160
Speaker 2: the office, said do you do you want to revisit

354
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 2: this decision? Are you sure you know about that decision?

355
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 2: You're shure making the right decision, we look at the data, whatever,

356
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:22,440
Speaker 2: And each time she you know, recommitted to the fact

357
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 2: that she'd want to do that. And of course, you

358
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:29,720
Speaker 2: know when a few years later, on a scan you know,

359
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 2: shows up some spots that are now making stage four

360
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 2: are you, like heart sinks into your stomach about not

361
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 2: having taken a new look. We don't know if that

362
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,679
Speaker 2: would have happened, even if she would have taken it.

363
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,879
Speaker 2: Because when you're taking quote unquote adjubant therapy, which is

364
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 2: what that was, adjubant meaning there's no evidence of cancer

365
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 2: and you're taking.

366
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:53,439
Speaker 1: This pill to decrease the odds that comes back.

367
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 2: You know, you don't know if you would have been

368
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,960
Speaker 2: someone where it was destined to come back, or whether

369
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 2: the pill would have saved you, but certainly makes you,

370
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,160
Speaker 2: you know, wonder and wonder about that decision.

371
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,400
Speaker 1: But she, you know, she really didn't spend.

372
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 2: A lot of time and regret and I admire that,

373
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,440
Speaker 2: you know, you know, we all should live that way.

374
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:15,359
Speaker 1: We all try to.

375
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 2: Yet many times we spend time focusing on why we

376
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 2: made a certain decision and regretting it when it was

377
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:22,880
Speaker 2: an outcome we didn't expect.

378
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 1: And so sometimes you're looking in the rear of your

379
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 1: mirror trying to.

380
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 2: Figure out how you got where you are instead of

381
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,160
Speaker 2: looking forward in terms of where you're going. And then

382
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 2: mac truck hicks, you, you know, so you really got

383
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 2: to be focusing, You got to be focusing your attention

384
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 2: on where you're at and where you're going forward, and

385
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 2: not trying to double back on the decisions that were

386
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 2: made before, because it's a that's a losing game. It

387
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 2: doesn't never makes you feel good, never makes you feel better.

388
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 2: Often you don't ever kind of piece it back together

389
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 2: because you don't always remember all of the the vectors

390
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 2: that were impacting your decision of the time you were

391
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,960
Speaker 2: making it. So because in retrospect, some of those vectors

392
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,640
Speaker 2: you know, are still evident and some are not so evident,

393
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 2: and and so you forget some of them, and then

394
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 2: you retrace it, you can't remember them all, and you

395
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 2: get caught up in this you know, web of you

396
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:20,479
Speaker 2: know of situation. And so I would say that, you know,

397
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 2: it's really it's really of no.

398
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 1: Value to do that.

399
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 2: The best thing is just look at where you're at,

400
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:28,879
Speaker 2: and look at the data for where you are, make

401
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,640
Speaker 2: the bests as you can, and move forward and don't

402
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 2: don't revisit it. And she certainly that was the Shannon way,

403
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:41,120
Speaker 2: and I think it was incredibly you know, healthy, every

404
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 2: person with stage four cancer as a different course, and

405
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 2: you know, it depends on what type of cancer and

406
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 2: with the inspective of breast cancer. You know, there's estrogen

407
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 2: receptor positive and negative.

408
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: There's hurt too, positive and negative, many.

409
00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 2: Different you know, things that stratify your your your likely

410
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 2: outcome and what the treatments are. And there's high volume

411
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 2: disease and low volume disease, and it depends on which

412
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 2: organ it spreads to. But there are many people with

413
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:17,120
Speaker 2: stage four disease that are able to live even decades,

414
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 2: you know, coexisting with the disease or with it in

415
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 2: a remission, but sort of knowing if the treatment or

416
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 2: is stopped, maybe it would grow back. So everyone has

417
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 2: a different course. And we certainly got a very long

418
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 2: and good course and beat the odds in a lot

419
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 2: of ways, and that there's some people who beat the

420
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 2: odds even more. And then there are some people who

421
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 2: have more difficult and shorter courses. So I don't think

422
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 2: it's good to personalize if you have stage four cancer.

423
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 2: I don't think it's good to personalize other people's you know,

424
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 2: journey and outcome towards your own, because there are so

425
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 2: many stratifying factors that weigh upon it. And when you're

426
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 2: listening to someone else's story, you usually don't you know,

427
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 2: you don't have those other factors, You don't have those

428
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 2: other elements because they may not have told you in

429
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 2: the story, they may have shared that with you, so

430
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,640
Speaker 2: you can't really personalize it in a way that's meaningful.

431
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 2: And so I think, you know, it's certainly good to

432
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 2: you know, use some people have had good courses as

433
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 2: an inspiration. Maybe that, I mean, I think that's a

434
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 2: nice thing. But if if someone else is having a

435
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 2: bad course, it just it just doesn't mean that you.

436
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 1: Know that it's going to apply to you.

437
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 2: And you know, we talked a lot about quality of life, right,

438
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 2: but your mental state, right, your mental state, your ability

439
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 2: to feel like I'm on this planet with two feet

440
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 2: on it, on solid territory, engaged in my life, engaged

441
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 2: with my wife or my husband, my children, my parents,

442
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 2: my friends, whoever they are that.

443
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: Are engaged in your world.

444
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 2: But that you're you're planning on the ground, you're really here,

445
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 2: You're engaged in your life and you're enjoying your life.

446
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: This is quality of life, This is meaningful life.

447
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 2: If every day is just wondering what the next scan

448
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 2: is going to bring, and you know what the next

449
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 2: turn of events is going to be with regard to

450
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 2: your disease. This is not quality of life because then

451
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 2: when you look at your kids, you're, you know, your

452
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 2: eyes missed up, wondering am I going to you know,

453
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 2: see them graduate or see them get married or whatever,

454
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 2: And it just takes you to a place where every day,

455
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 2: you know, is filled with sadness, remorse and loss, you know,

456
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 2: rather than joy, hopefulness, you know, and possibility. And so

457
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 2: I know it's easier to say that than to do that,

458
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 2: but we all have to live every single day embracing

459
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 2: and fully engaged as much as you can. And I

460
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 2: can tell you lots of situations of patients that I

461
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 2: have who have stage four cancer and they outlive other

462
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 2: people in their lives who were not even diagnosed with

463
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 2: cancer at all, but during the course of their life

464
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 2: with the stage four cancer, the other people in their

465
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 2: life get something and pass away from it and they're

466
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 2: still alive with stage four cancer.

467
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: So or there are car accidents or other kinds of things.

468
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: So none of.

469
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 2: Us has any guarantee of how much time we have

470
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 2: or what's coming. So we should all be engaged every

471
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 2: single day and make it real and to pay deference

472
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 2: to what we call this podcast.

473
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: What Shannon call this podcast.

474
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 2: Let's be clear, you know, let's be clear about the

475
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 2: fact that we should all engage as much as we

476
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 2: can in life because there are no guarantees of time.

477
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 2: And although it seems like someone with stage four cancer,

478
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 2: you know, might have a clearer path to you know,

479
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,439
Speaker 2: the time length they have and what's likely to happen,

480
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 2: and often other people get surprised. So I feel I

481
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 2: feel like people Shannon, like Shannon, you know, inspire me

482
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 2: in my life to try to make sure I do

483
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 2: everything that I want to do as much as I

484
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 2: can each day, in addition to doing the things that

485
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 2: I have to do, so that when the day is done.

486
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, I.

487
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 2: Lived a full day that I was engaged in and

488
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 2: that I enjoyed, and I think we should all try

489
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 2: to do that. I think the concept of living with

490
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 2: cancer is something that is hard for people to understand

491
00:28:55,680 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 2: because a lot of times cancer and historically has been

492
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 2: something you either find it early and you cut it

493
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 2: out and.

494
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: You're done with it, or you cut it out.

495
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 2: And you take some chemotherapy and maybe some radiation therapy

496
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 2: and then you're finished with.

497
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: It, or you can't remove it.

498
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 2: And the treatment or the treatatment doesn't work that well,

499
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 2: and it progresses and you die. But we're living in

500
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 2: an era where in addition to traditional chemotherapy and radiation

501
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 2: therapy and surgery, we now have targeted therapies, therapies that

502
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 2: are directed toward specific molecular abnormalities and tumors for which

503
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 2: there are drugs that interact in that molecular abnormality and

504
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 2: change the course of how the cell grows and moves

505
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 2: and does things. And then we also have this vast

506
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 2: important field of immunotherapy where we're now able to manipulate

507
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 2: the immune system to see the tumor cells and to

508
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 2: kill them. And there are tremendous drugs that are now

509
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 2: you know, available that are immunotherapies. And so now we

510
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 2: have a situation where we may not be able to eradicate.

511
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 2: Sometimes we can't eradicate the cancer altogether and have good

512
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 2: long remissions and or cures. But in some situations of

513
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 2: stage four where we can, we can arrest it or

514
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 2: put into remission and then it relapses and then another

515
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 2: remission and all of that, and sometimes it's possible to

516
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 2: piece together all those pieces into a time frame where

517
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 2: you're actually living out the longevity the lifetime that the

518
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 2: universe intended for you before you've got cancer. So I

519
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 2: think that that you don't have to think of stage

520
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 2: four cancer as and of course it varies directly, you

521
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,959
Speaker 2: know immensely by cancer which type of cancer you have

522
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 2: to think about it necessarily that it's automatically define in

523
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 2: your longevity, but rather something you may have to live with.

524
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 2: But if you have to live with it, that's where

525
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 2: I say the quality of life is so important, because

526
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 2: when you're going ten in fifteen years and you're not

527
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 2: in remission, but you're not progressing, and you may be

528
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 2: taking some medications and pills, some infusion once a while,

529
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 2: but everything's okay, then you need to embrace life and

530
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 2: live life and not let cancer define you. And that's

531
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 2: what and that's one of the things that Shannon did

532
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 2: so well is she didn't let cancer define her. And

533
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 2: I say that a lot to patients when I'm meeting

534
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 2: with them and talking to them and beginning it's say,

535
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 2: you know, listen, especially if it's something where you know

536
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 2: we're going to be able to do some treatments and

537
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 2: most likely put it into a remission that will will

538
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 2: be a cure, you know, especially young people, young people

539
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 2: with Hodgkins ease or maybe testicular cancer some of those

540
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 2: other things that might be curable. I say, I don't

541
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 2: want you to become a cancer person. I want you

542
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 2: to be a person who once had cancer, but don't

543
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 2: be a cancer person because you know it. You know

544
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 2: it consumes you know, it does consume your life and

545
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 2: your identity, and it's always going to be a part

546
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 2: of your history, but it shouldn't be a part of

547
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 2: your you know, your identity. And a lot of times

548
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 2: people they find incredible wealth of point of view and

549
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 2: even sort of patina on life after having gone through it.

550
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 2: Some people just have terrible PTSD and are just so fearful,

551
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 2: and it really very adversely affects them, even if they're

552
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 2: in remission or cured. But some people, if they dig deep,

553
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 2: who've dug very deep and really looked at it, they

554
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 2: find if I'm new meaning. And I've even had some

555
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 2: artists in musicians who you know, really were not being

556
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 2: that successful. They were great musicians, but they hadn't hit

557
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 2: that kind of place where they really took off, you know,

558
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 2: before having cancer and then and then once they had

559
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 2: the cancer experience, I said to them, listen, I want

560
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 2: you to know that you're going to go through this

561
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 2: journey and it's going to give you grit, and it's

562
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 2: going to give you, you know, gravitas, and it's going

563
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 2: to give you life experience that is not going to

564
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 2: feel very good, but it's going to give you something

565
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 2: to talk about.

566
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: It's going to give you something to feel. And if

567
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: you if you really process this both in your mind

568
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: and your heart, but in your music, you will have

569
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: the most successful career that you possibly have coming out

570
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: of this. And there have been many occasions where I've

571
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,439
Speaker 1: been one hundred percent correct about that that they really

572
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: took off during and after this therapy because they they

573
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 1: had they now knew how.

574
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 2: To say stories and say things that that relate to

575
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 2: other people. You know that they lived life. They lived

576
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 2: life in the grittiest, most difficult way they could, and

577
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 2: that causes you to just see it all differently and

578
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 2: to be able to tell the story in a way

579
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 2: that moves others. So I think that instead of thinking

580
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 2: of this as a scary, big thing, we should think

581
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 2: about it as just one of those things that can't

582
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 2: happen and you embrace it and whatever the circumstances are,

583
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 2: but you try to, you know, you try to own it,

584
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 2: and you try to use it to build yourself forward

585
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 2: if you can.

586
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: Not everyone has that. Not everyone has that opportunity.

587
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,720
Speaker 2: Of course, it's quite a vary thing, but I think

588
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 2: I think that's the way you have to begin looking

589
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 2: at it and know that the universe has a wisdom

590
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:24,760
Speaker 2: about it and for whatever reason, you know, your destiny

591
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 2: had this piece in it, and so how can you

592
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 2: take this piece and turn it into something that makes

593
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 2: the next phase of your life, you know, even richer

594
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 2: and better and sort of more unexpectedly amazing. I think

595
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 2: one of the things when you think about a person

596
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 2: that you've known and their time comes to an end,

597
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:55,839
Speaker 2: I think it's very important to reflect what did that

598
00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 2: person leave me with? How am I changed from from

599
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 2: her or from him or them? How I changed? Because

600
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 2: every person that you commit real time to helps uncover

601
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 2: pieces of you that you wouldn't have uncovered have they

602
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 2: not entered your life. You think of your life in

603
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 2: a way as kind of a big jigsaw puzzle. If

604
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 2: you think part of the mission of life, maybe the

605
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 2: most important mission of life is to turnover as many

606
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 2: of those pieces as you can in the time that

607
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 2: you have, so that by the time you're finished, you've

608
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 2: revealed the clearest picture of who you uniquely were. And

609
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 2: the more pieces you turn over, the better that picture is.

610
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 2: And that who you are takes into account your gifts

611
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 2: and your talents, and your commitments and your intelligence and

612
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 2: all the unique features that each of us has. And

613
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 2: so when people come into our lives, they help us

614
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 2: turn over pieces of that puzzle that we wouldn't have

615
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 2: turned over on our own because we maybe you didn't

616
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,760
Speaker 2: have the courage to, or we didn't really know anything

617
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 2: about that part of who we were. We never had

618
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 2: anyone in our life that was like that, And so

619
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 2: they challenged you into your discomfort zone, and you, for

620
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,879
Speaker 2: some reason, trust them and go there and learn things

621
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 2: about yourself. So I think that you know, with Shannon,

622
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 2: if you knew her from Afar, you know through her

623
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 2: work and all that.

624
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: I think, watching the way she lived her.

625
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 2: Life and all that, you might ask yourself, what did

626
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 2: she leave me with? And that becomes her everlasting, you know,

627
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 2: contribution to you. I know, for example, you know I

628
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 2: had the great pleasure of being Pharah Fawcet's doctor. And

629
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 2: she was an incredible woman. And as you may remember,

630
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 2: you know, she.

631
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 1: Left Charlie's Angels when it was the top television show

632
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 1: and perhaps perhaps the first television show maybe ever not

633
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 1: sure to be a number one TV show with all women,

634
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,760
Speaker 1: three women as the stars. And she left the show

635
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 1: after only about a year because she wanted other things.

636
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: And most people would be afraid to do that when

637
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 1: you get such stardom of that type, that would be

638
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: afraid to leave.

639
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 2: But Farah Fawcett was fearless. And she wore a bracelet

640
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 2: and ankle bracelet around her ankle had some silver beads

641
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 2: on it, and on those beads or inscribed the word

642
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 2: fearless in Sanskrit. And I always remember that because she

643
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 2: was fearless and you can see that in the choices

644
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:22,760
Speaker 2: that she made throughout her career, and that was really

645
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 2: a very defining feature of who Faarah was. And she

646
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 2: left me with that message very strongly, to try to

647
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 2: not live a life guided by fear, but to live

648
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 2: a life embracing the light of what you want and

649
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 2: to try to go for that, whether you succeed or not.

650
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 2: And Shannon had similar, very similar qualities. Shannon was also fearless.

651
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 2: When she believed in something, she was embraced it and

652
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 2: stood up for it and.

653
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: Went for it.

654
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 2: And that was manifest if you look at at her

655
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 2: career as well as manifest in her personal and social interactions.

656
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 2: But it was manifest by what I'll give you is

657
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 2: the way I describe it and something that you know,

658
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 2: I think this is always my best way to describe

659
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 2: what Shannon did, and that's Shannon always did Shannon. Shannon

660
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 2: always did Shannon, and you should always do you. That's

661
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 2: what I believe is the last thing legacy and if

662
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 2: and that's I believe Shannon would have to say, because

663
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 2: whether it had consequences or not, if she thought she

664
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 2: had to do it, she did it, and she always

665
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 2: did it, you know, true to her set of principles.

666
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 2: So Shannon always did Shannon. And I would say that

667
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,399
Speaker 2: the best legacies you could have and the best way

668
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 2: you could honor her, and maybe the best way that

669
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 2: you can live your own life to the fullest, and

670
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 2: in some way similar way Shannon would be to always

671
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 2: do you. M h

672
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 1: M hmmmmmmmmm