1 00:00:04,078 --> 00:00:06,518 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of My 2 00:00:06,718 --> 00:00:14,478 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, welcome back to the Book of Joe 3 00:00:14,558 --> 00:00:19,598 Speaker 1: podcast with me, Tom Berduci and Joe Madden. And Hey, 4 00:00:19,718 --> 00:00:23,718 Speaker 1: if you watched World Series Game one, if you heard 5 00:00:23,758 --> 00:00:27,678 Speaker 1: about World Series Game one, well that's a reason to 6 00:00:27,758 --> 00:00:30,398 Speaker 1: go by and read our book, The Book of Joe, 7 00:00:30,558 --> 00:00:34,398 Speaker 1: because you talk about playoff baseball and what a manager 8 00:00:34,518 --> 00:00:37,798 Speaker 1: does in the course of a game. Joe Madden, that 9 00:00:37,918 --> 00:00:41,438 Speaker 1: was a manager's game, Game one of the World Series. Wow, 10 00:00:41,598 --> 00:00:43,598 Speaker 1: there's a lot to think about, I mean, especially early 11 00:00:43,638 --> 00:00:47,438 Speaker 1: on boath starting pitchers, um start with Noah. I mean, 12 00:00:47,598 --> 00:00:50,358 Speaker 1: obviously wasn't on top of his game. Was the first 13 00:00:50,358 --> 00:00:53,118 Speaker 1: game of the series. You have a fully rested bullpen, 14 00:00:53,198 --> 00:00:56,358 Speaker 1: four days off, you get another day off after two games. 15 00:00:56,358 --> 00:00:58,118 Speaker 1: So I just didn't know they're gonna go with that. 16 00:00:58,678 --> 00:01:01,638 Speaker 1: So I was watching and I thought to myself, probably 17 00:01:01,718 --> 00:01:06,198 Speaker 1: or possibly because a couple of reasons. First game, his 18 00:01:06,238 --> 00:01:08,158 Speaker 1: first game of the series, there is a lot left whatever, 19 00:01:08,438 --> 00:01:10,478 Speaker 1: let's just stay with and see what happens. Number two. 20 00:01:10,998 --> 00:01:13,838 Speaker 1: Maybe just didn't like the long relief options and preferred 21 00:01:13,878 --> 00:01:17,438 Speaker 1: staying with Aaron at that particular juncture because five runs 22 00:01:17,478 --> 00:01:19,238 Speaker 1: is a lot to give up and then to overcome 23 00:01:19,318 --> 00:01:22,718 Speaker 1: versus very Lander. That's not something you normally would bet on. Um, 24 00:01:22,838 --> 00:01:24,758 Speaker 1: So that was a part. I was just watching to 25 00:01:24,758 --> 00:01:26,438 Speaker 1: see what they wanted to do. And on the other side, 26 00:01:26,558 --> 00:01:29,158 Speaker 1: very Lander. I mean, you have a five nothing lead 27 00:01:29,198 --> 00:01:32,558 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden it starts dripping away and 28 00:01:32,758 --> 00:01:35,118 Speaker 1: again they have the same situation. I think there they 29 00:01:35,118 --> 00:01:39,078 Speaker 1: were better suited for long relief possibly then the other 30 00:01:39,078 --> 00:01:40,918 Speaker 1: team was. So was just that was that was my 31 00:01:40,998 --> 00:01:43,558 Speaker 1: internal questions during that game, just watching the whole thing. 32 00:01:44,198 --> 00:01:47,358 Speaker 1: Um uh. And I was wasn't surprised how it all 33 00:01:47,358 --> 00:01:49,398 Speaker 1: played out, regarding both starters stayed in there a little 34 00:01:49,398 --> 00:01:51,678 Speaker 1: bit longer. Being game one, there'd be a lot less 35 00:01:51,718 --> 00:01:54,038 Speaker 1: patients if that was game three, four or five. Yeah, 36 00:01:54,078 --> 00:01:57,278 Speaker 1: well put and especially as it regards to Nola, he 37 00:01:57,398 --> 00:02:01,438 Speaker 1: had problem for some reason mechanically pitching out of the stretch. 38 00:02:01,878 --> 00:02:03,838 Speaker 1: When he was in the wind up, he was fine. 39 00:02:04,198 --> 00:02:07,678 Speaker 1: So once he cleared the home run, uh, the second 40 00:02:07,678 --> 00:02:10,678 Speaker 1: one actually by Kyle Tucker, he was good out of 41 00:02:10,678 --> 00:02:13,838 Speaker 1: the stretch. And then I saw Rob Thompson, and I've 42 00:02:13,838 --> 00:02:16,838 Speaker 1: seen him do this throughout the postseason. Joe. It's sort 43 00:02:16,838 --> 00:02:19,958 Speaker 1: of like getting Johnny Lester in Game seven and sixteen. 44 00:02:20,758 --> 00:02:24,158 Speaker 1: He's not going to sit around and be passive, especially 45 00:02:24,198 --> 00:02:26,918 Speaker 1: in the World Series game. When you're at a tie game, 46 00:02:26,998 --> 00:02:30,678 Speaker 1: fifth inning World Series, that's a high leverage spot. High 47 00:02:30,798 --> 00:02:33,798 Speaker 1: leverage spot does not mean seven, eight, nine, folks, And 48 00:02:33,838 --> 00:02:36,158 Speaker 1: he had a drawn up that the way he's going 49 00:02:36,238 --> 00:02:41,038 Speaker 1: to control these games, it all revolves around Alvarez. Right. 50 00:02:41,078 --> 00:02:43,998 Speaker 1: Alvarez and Tucker the only two lefties in the Houston 51 00:02:44,078 --> 00:02:47,878 Speaker 1: lineup bat three spots apart. So when that runway comes 52 00:02:47,958 --> 00:02:50,718 Speaker 1: up anytime, especially if they're getting up a third time, 53 00:02:51,398 --> 00:02:53,838 Speaker 1: Rob Thompson is gonna put his best arm on them. 54 00:02:53,838 --> 00:02:56,398 Speaker 1: And right now, that's Jose Alvarado. And you're going to 55 00:02:56,478 --> 00:02:58,518 Speaker 1: do that whether it's the fifth inning, the sixth inning, 56 00:02:58,518 --> 00:03:00,638 Speaker 1: the seventh inning, or the ninth And he had it 57 00:03:00,718 --> 00:03:04,478 Speaker 1: set up because he had Ranger Sworez probably Game three 58 00:03:04,478 --> 00:03:07,798 Speaker 1: starter sitting in the bullpen to get him out against 59 00:03:07,878 --> 00:03:11,918 Speaker 1: those two the next time around. So I thought, once again, 60 00:03:12,158 --> 00:03:16,718 Speaker 1: Rob Thompson managed a brilliant ball game, making sure that 61 00:03:16,798 --> 00:03:19,158 Speaker 1: you don't sit around and hope the game gets to 62 00:03:19,198 --> 00:03:22,078 Speaker 1: your better relievers. You go to them, especially when you've 63 00:03:22,078 --> 00:03:24,078 Speaker 1: got a chance to win a World Series game, you 64 00:03:24,118 --> 00:03:26,998 Speaker 1: go for it, especially game win into the circumstances. Yeah, 65 00:03:27,038 --> 00:03:29,078 Speaker 1: he had that all thought out. In other words, I mean, 66 00:03:29,118 --> 00:03:32,078 Speaker 1: I'm looking at it. He wanted X number abouts out 67 00:03:32,078 --> 00:03:33,758 Speaker 1: of Nola for the rest of this thing to play 68 00:03:33,798 --> 00:03:36,918 Speaker 1: out it like you're suggesting, when are these lefties coming up? 69 00:03:36,958 --> 00:03:40,678 Speaker 1: And I got Albrest for the first time through, Suarez 70 00:03:40,758 --> 00:03:43,678 Speaker 1: for the second time through, and at that point you're thinking, listen, 71 00:03:43,718 --> 00:03:45,758 Speaker 1: if it's a bad game by then, then Suarez isn't 72 00:03:45,758 --> 00:03:48,878 Speaker 1: gonna pitch and nothing's really lost in the sense of 73 00:03:48,918 --> 00:03:51,118 Speaker 1: course the game would be, but you don't have to 74 00:03:51,158 --> 00:03:54,158 Speaker 1: go through all that. So he bet on those two lefties. 75 00:03:54,398 --> 00:03:56,118 Speaker 1: He had him set up based on the number of 76 00:03:56,118 --> 00:03:58,638 Speaker 1: outs left. He started counting out to start looking at it. 77 00:03:59,038 --> 00:04:01,118 Speaker 1: You deal with the perfect world one to three, one 78 00:04:01,158 --> 00:04:04,158 Speaker 1: to three, uh out inning. Sometimes it might be a 79 00:04:04,158 --> 00:04:06,638 Speaker 1: four out any but you start looking at that in advance, 80 00:04:07,078 --> 00:04:09,638 Speaker 1: and that's how you draw the whole thing up. And yeah, 81 00:04:09,638 --> 00:04:12,038 Speaker 1: I thought he did a great job. I loved when 82 00:04:12,078 --> 00:04:13,998 Speaker 1: he when he pulled Nol after the one hitter who 83 00:04:14,038 --> 00:04:16,078 Speaker 1: was just in it to face the right Everything was 84 00:04:16,118 --> 00:04:18,758 Speaker 1: set up and again was about the lieutenant matchups, but 85 00:04:18,878 --> 00:04:22,278 Speaker 1: he had already um drawn it up in his mind 86 00:04:22,318 --> 00:04:25,638 Speaker 1: the numbers and was looking at his UH cheap before 87 00:04:25,678 --> 00:04:27,678 Speaker 1: the game. Who this guy is to face? Get him out? 88 00:04:27,718 --> 00:04:29,758 Speaker 1: This next guy faces as many guys get him out, 89 00:04:30,198 --> 00:04:33,358 Speaker 1: And like, I like the four out situation too, even 90 00:04:33,398 --> 00:04:35,878 Speaker 1: as when you're developing young minor league pictures, I like 91 00:04:35,998 --> 00:04:38,438 Speaker 1: the idea of relievers that you make sure they get 92 00:04:38,478 --> 00:04:40,478 Speaker 1: four outs. In other words, they may get the last 93 00:04:40,518 --> 00:04:42,398 Speaker 1: out of an inning in the next three the next inning, 94 00:04:42,718 --> 00:04:44,798 Speaker 1: or get three and then maybe one in the next 95 00:04:44,838 --> 00:04:47,398 Speaker 1: inning before you get him out, because the matchups would 96 00:04:47,438 --> 00:04:50,038 Speaker 1: serve better. And Joe, I'm gonna tell you and our 97 00:04:50,078 --> 00:04:53,718 Speaker 1: listeners a great story here about managing, because I think 98 00:04:53,718 --> 00:04:56,878 Speaker 1: a lot of our book is about It's not data 99 00:04:57,238 --> 00:05:01,398 Speaker 1: versus old school. It's a balance right art and science. 100 00:05:01,398 --> 00:05:04,638 Speaker 1: It's all about balance. Nobody's picking one side of another. 101 00:05:04,718 --> 00:05:07,078 Speaker 1: But here's a good example of how that balance works 102 00:05:07,078 --> 00:05:09,558 Speaker 1: when it comes to Rob Thompson. He's got a line 103 00:05:09,598 --> 00:05:13,558 Speaker 1: up where he's got his best hitter, Bryce Harper hitting fourth, okay, 104 00:05:13,758 --> 00:05:16,518 Speaker 1: not second, not third, like the way a lot of 105 00:05:16,558 --> 00:05:19,238 Speaker 1: the new analytics guys like to do that. And he's 106 00:05:19,238 --> 00:05:22,558 Speaker 1: got a runway of right handed hitters there, and you 107 00:05:22,598 --> 00:05:24,918 Speaker 1: have a Houston team with one lefty in the bullpen. 108 00:05:24,998 --> 00:05:27,478 Speaker 1: Now they're right, he's do get left, he's out. So 109 00:05:27,598 --> 00:05:30,118 Speaker 1: the tendency would be to move Harper up in the 110 00:05:30,158 --> 00:05:32,958 Speaker 1: lineup to second or probably third, where you can go 111 00:05:33,118 --> 00:05:37,958 Speaker 1: left right, left shoreber Hoskins Harper. Well, of course Rob 112 00:05:37,998 --> 00:05:40,518 Speaker 1: Thompson thought about that, and you know what he did. 113 00:05:40,558 --> 00:05:43,278 Speaker 1: He talked to his coaches, he talked to his players. 114 00:05:43,598 --> 00:05:46,158 Speaker 1: This is before Game one of the World Series, and 115 00:05:46,278 --> 00:05:51,558 Speaker 1: everybody said, don't overthink it. It's working. Harper actually loves 116 00:05:51,598 --> 00:05:54,398 Speaker 1: to hit third, prefers hitting third, but he's in such 117 00:05:54,398 --> 00:05:56,918 Speaker 1: a good place now, he's like, I'm good. Rob. It 118 00:05:56,998 --> 00:05:59,838 Speaker 1: hit in the fourth spot. So even though it might 119 00:05:59,958 --> 00:06:03,678 Speaker 1: make sense in an incremental sense to have Harper hit 120 00:06:03,958 --> 00:06:07,798 Speaker 1: third instead of fourth, the manager talked to his players, 121 00:06:08,118 --> 00:06:10,958 Speaker 1: talked to his coaches, and he said, we are not 122 00:06:11,238 --> 00:06:14,718 Speaker 1: overthinking it. This is working and we're sticking it with it. 123 00:06:14,838 --> 00:06:17,998 Speaker 1: And I've seen managers throughout this postseason, Joe. In the 124 00:06:18,038 --> 00:06:21,278 Speaker 1: regular season, they're gonna chase every incremental edge that they 125 00:06:21,278 --> 00:06:25,398 Speaker 1: can find, and they might even dismiss or not even 126 00:06:25,438 --> 00:06:28,838 Speaker 1: consider the player's comfort in a lineup spot, and they 127 00:06:28,838 --> 00:06:31,518 Speaker 1: will chase those incremental edges based on the numbers. I 128 00:06:31,798 --> 00:06:34,438 Speaker 1: know you've been there, I know you get all this information. 129 00:06:35,278 --> 00:06:37,078 Speaker 1: Let me hear your take on that. Yeah, I was 130 00:06:37,078 --> 00:06:39,038 Speaker 1: curious what they were gonna do because they put Smith 131 00:06:39,078 --> 00:06:42,038 Speaker 1: in the bullpen one left hander, um and like you 132 00:06:42,078 --> 00:06:44,958 Speaker 1: had such mentioned their right he's get out lefty. So 133 00:06:45,038 --> 00:06:47,678 Speaker 1: that's kind of a moot point. I was just curious 134 00:06:47,678 --> 00:06:51,878 Speaker 1: whether or not they would go um left right, left right. Uh. 135 00:06:51,998 --> 00:06:54,198 Speaker 1: Last night, I was curious when the lane up was 136 00:06:54,238 --> 00:06:56,358 Speaker 1: posted if Royal Mudo would still be in the three hole. 137 00:06:56,678 --> 00:06:59,598 Speaker 1: What you do there? Because of the blocks that we 138 00:06:59,638 --> 00:07:01,998 Speaker 1: have to get phase three hitters, you try to put 139 00:07:01,998 --> 00:07:05,078 Speaker 1: a little bit more separation between your best lefty. So 140 00:07:05,158 --> 00:07:08,158 Speaker 1: Schwerber two rights and another lefty. So if they wanted 141 00:07:08,198 --> 00:07:10,518 Speaker 1: to bring the lefty and to start the inning versus 142 00:07:10,518 --> 00:07:12,678 Speaker 1: Schwarber as an example, then he's got to face two right. 143 00:07:12,718 --> 00:07:15,318 Speaker 1: He's after that before he gets to Harper, before you 144 00:07:15,478 --> 00:07:17,278 Speaker 1: go left, right, left, and all of a sudden left 145 00:07:17,278 --> 00:07:19,078 Speaker 1: he gets in a in a block of three, he 146 00:07:19,078 --> 00:07:21,238 Speaker 1: gets two left handed hitters. So that's that's something I 147 00:07:21,238 --> 00:07:23,958 Speaker 1: started a couple of years ago, and then when the 148 00:07:23,958 --> 00:07:25,718 Speaker 1: block of three came up, you have to face three 149 00:07:25,798 --> 00:07:28,838 Speaker 1: hitters minimum. That's that's how I started stacking my lineup 150 00:07:29,118 --> 00:07:32,078 Speaker 1: to avoid of that leftenant matchup on your left hand 151 00:07:32,158 --> 00:07:35,118 Speaker 1: hitters in that small block. So I was curious, and 152 00:07:35,198 --> 00:07:37,278 Speaker 1: I don't know that that with Smith there now, I 153 00:07:37,358 --> 00:07:39,158 Speaker 1: don't even know the fact that he wasn't in the 154 00:07:39,238 --> 00:07:41,838 Speaker 1: last round, that they're even worried about that. I don't 155 00:07:41,838 --> 00:07:43,478 Speaker 1: even know that that was a concern of theirs that 156 00:07:43,518 --> 00:07:45,558 Speaker 1: he would be used in a real high leverage moment 157 00:07:45,998 --> 00:07:48,358 Speaker 1: based on the fact, yeah, they're not. They're really not 158 00:07:48,438 --> 00:07:50,598 Speaker 1: worried about Smith. You're gonna see a brave in the 159 00:07:50,598 --> 00:07:52,958 Speaker 1: biggest spots right on left, thank you said. And you've 160 00:07:52,958 --> 00:07:55,278 Speaker 1: had that with Peraltas of other relievers. You're gonna go 161 00:07:55,358 --> 00:07:57,238 Speaker 1: with your best arm right. So they weren't even worried 162 00:07:57,238 --> 00:07:59,238 Speaker 1: about that. The Phillies, I think they thought about that. 163 00:07:59,278 --> 00:08:01,518 Speaker 1: So listen, that's just there possibly to scare us off. 164 00:08:01,558 --> 00:08:03,958 Speaker 1: We're gonna stay with it this way. And just like 165 00:08:04,038 --> 00:08:06,558 Speaker 1: you're saying, don't overthink it, man, uh, you know what's 166 00:08:06,558 --> 00:08:08,958 Speaker 1: working for you right now. I appreciate the fact that 167 00:08:08,998 --> 00:08:11,118 Speaker 1: he talked to his coaches and his players. I mean, 168 00:08:11,118 --> 00:08:13,518 Speaker 1: that's something I've I've I've done. I've talked to players 169 00:08:13,518 --> 00:08:16,318 Speaker 1: about spots in the batting order in crucial moments like that. 170 00:08:16,358 --> 00:08:19,078 Speaker 1: I've done that before, and of course the hitting coaches too. 171 00:08:19,078 --> 00:08:22,078 Speaker 1: So that's all very interesting. And Wow, this game comes 172 00:08:22,238 --> 00:08:24,518 Speaker 1: down to what didn't come down to a bit wound 173 00:08:24,598 --> 00:08:29,078 Speaker 1: up with jt Realmuto in his number three spot leading 174 00:08:29,118 --> 00:08:31,318 Speaker 1: off in the tenth thinning. And folks, I gotta tell 175 00:08:31,358 --> 00:08:33,878 Speaker 1: you and Joe, I know you'd being an old catcher, 176 00:08:33,918 --> 00:08:37,798 Speaker 1: you would appreciate this. That dude has caught every single 177 00:08:37,878 --> 00:08:41,518 Speaker 1: pitch that the Phillies have thrown this postseason. Okay, it's 178 00:08:41,558 --> 00:08:43,318 Speaker 1: now the tenth thanning. That was a four and a 179 00:08:43,358 --> 00:08:47,078 Speaker 1: half hour game. He took an absolutely haymaker of a 180 00:08:47,118 --> 00:08:49,638 Speaker 1: foul ball off his jaw in the middle of the game. 181 00:08:50,358 --> 00:08:53,678 Speaker 1: Right no days off. He gets off the field after 182 00:08:53,718 --> 00:08:56,438 Speaker 1: catching nine innings. He's leading off the tenth thinning against 183 00:08:56,438 --> 00:09:00,038 Speaker 1: the pitcher Luis Garcia he has never seen before. He 184 00:09:00,078 --> 00:09:02,678 Speaker 1: gets to one in two counts, somehow gets it back 185 00:09:02,718 --> 00:09:05,158 Speaker 1: to three too, chokes up on the vat and takes 186 00:09:05,198 --> 00:09:07,278 Speaker 1: a heater or away that's actually out of the strike 187 00:09:07,398 --> 00:09:10,038 Speaker 1: zone and hits a home run. This guy is an 188 00:09:10,038 --> 00:09:12,918 Speaker 1: absolute beast to me, he's kind of the heart and 189 00:09:12,958 --> 00:09:16,038 Speaker 1: soul because everything he does behind the plate, running the game, 190 00:09:16,118 --> 00:09:18,678 Speaker 1: never takes a day off. That was game number one 191 00:09:18,798 --> 00:09:22,198 Speaker 1: fifty one for him this year. Uh, and what he did. 192 00:09:22,558 --> 00:09:26,118 Speaker 1: He just hit the first extra inning home run in 193 00:09:26,118 --> 00:09:29,918 Speaker 1: the World Series by a catcher since Carlton Fisk famously 194 00:09:29,958 --> 00:09:32,998 Speaker 1: in nineteen. Well, I'm as big a fan as you are. 195 00:09:33,038 --> 00:09:34,718 Speaker 1: I mean, I've watched him since he was in Miami. 196 00:09:34,758 --> 00:09:36,438 Speaker 1: He's all of that. He's absolutely all of that. And 197 00:09:36,478 --> 00:09:39,318 Speaker 1: the fact that he's caught as often as he has, 198 00:09:39,358 --> 00:09:42,758 Speaker 1: like you just recaptured there. The guy runs well. He 199 00:09:42,838 --> 00:09:45,918 Speaker 1: runs really well actually, and he's uh, he's definitely the 200 00:09:45,958 --> 00:09:49,278 Speaker 1: five tool guy because most catchers can include speed within 201 00:09:49,318 --> 00:09:51,238 Speaker 1: their game. You gotta watch him on the basis he 202 00:09:51,278 --> 00:09:54,278 Speaker 1: throws great. He's a really good thrower. I love the 203 00:09:54,318 --> 00:09:56,678 Speaker 1: way he commands his pitching staff. And I did see 204 00:09:56,718 --> 00:09:59,158 Speaker 1: some or hear some interviews with him yesterday. Speaks so 205 00:09:59,198 --> 00:10:02,078 Speaker 1: well and he's so prepared. I could just see why 206 00:10:02,198 --> 00:10:05,118 Speaker 1: pictures like to throw to this guy. And I did. 207 00:10:05,118 --> 00:10:06,998 Speaker 1: I when I woke up this morning because I missed 208 00:10:06,998 --> 00:10:10,158 Speaker 1: that last I fell asleep. But it was real mooto. 209 00:10:10,238 --> 00:10:12,038 Speaker 1: My first thought was there it is he batted third 210 00:10:12,078 --> 00:10:14,278 Speaker 1: as opposed to fourth. That was my first thought when 211 00:10:14,278 --> 00:10:16,478 Speaker 1: I saw that. And like you're talking about, that was 212 00:10:16,478 --> 00:10:19,758 Speaker 1: really a nast pitch. I love the city had choked up, 213 00:10:19,758 --> 00:10:21,798 Speaker 1: but the choke up look away first. Dribed the ball 214 00:10:21,838 --> 00:10:23,958 Speaker 1: to the right side. Hit it well enough. That's all 215 00:10:23,958 --> 00:10:27,598 Speaker 1: really classic baseball stuff. Yeah, great approach. And by the way, 216 00:10:27,878 --> 00:10:30,918 Speaker 1: we get to game to Zach Wheeler on the mound, 217 00:10:31,478 --> 00:10:34,318 Speaker 1: you'll really see how important JT is. The Philly Zach 218 00:10:34,358 --> 00:10:37,638 Speaker 1: Wheeler is a guy who doesn't want a lot of information. 219 00:10:37,838 --> 00:10:40,478 Speaker 1: Right he has never pitched against the Astros. He's pitching 220 00:10:40,478 --> 00:10:42,638 Speaker 1: in the World Series, and he told me all I 221 00:10:42,678 --> 00:10:45,358 Speaker 1: want to know is two things. One hit her swing 222 00:10:45,358 --> 00:10:47,878 Speaker 1: early in the count and where can I go on 223 00:10:47,918 --> 00:10:50,478 Speaker 1: a chase pitch to certain guys? He said, after that, 224 00:10:51,038 --> 00:10:55,598 Speaker 1: I rely all on JT. Realmuto. JT does the prep, 225 00:10:55,758 --> 00:10:58,278 Speaker 1: does the game calling. You'll rarely see him shake him off. 226 00:10:58,918 --> 00:11:01,558 Speaker 1: This is a guy JT. Realmuto who gives you so 227 00:11:01,718 --> 00:11:04,478 Speaker 1: much more that we don't even see. So when we 228 00:11:04,478 --> 00:11:06,678 Speaker 1: get back and take a quick break here. I want 229 00:11:06,718 --> 00:11:09,518 Speaker 1: to talk to Joe about one of his former players 230 00:11:10,118 --> 00:11:13,238 Speaker 1: who we all heard wasn't supposed to be a good defender. 231 00:11:13,918 --> 00:11:23,638 Speaker 1: Back with that in a minute, they welcome back to 232 00:11:23,678 --> 00:11:26,558 Speaker 1: the Book of Joe podcast. Joe Madden. You had Nick 233 00:11:26,598 --> 00:11:31,158 Speaker 1: Castianos in Chicago with the Cubs, and there he was 234 00:11:31,198 --> 00:11:35,278 Speaker 1: in the World Series, literally saving the game with a 235 00:11:35,358 --> 00:11:37,958 Speaker 1: diving catch on a bloop to right field that would 236 00:11:37,958 --> 00:11:40,438 Speaker 1: have knocked in the winning run in the ninth inning. 237 00:11:40,998 --> 00:11:43,758 Speaker 1: Nick castiano has made the play of the game. Actually 238 00:11:43,798 --> 00:11:45,878 Speaker 1: Alec Bone made a really good one as well. But 239 00:11:46,478 --> 00:11:49,438 Speaker 1: Nick Castianos, you got him with the Cubs. The Cubs 240 00:11:49,438 --> 00:11:53,158 Speaker 1: traded for him, and we're talking about the Book of Joe, 241 00:11:53,278 --> 00:11:56,078 Speaker 1: our book and our podcast. What was the book on 242 00:11:56,238 --> 00:11:58,678 Speaker 1: Nick back then? Yeah, First of all, I'm really happy. 243 00:11:58,678 --> 00:12:00,838 Speaker 1: I've seen him in a lot of photographs carrying his 244 00:12:00,838 --> 00:12:03,558 Speaker 1: glove around with him to and from the ballpark. That's 245 00:12:03,638 --> 00:12:06,238 Speaker 1: Nick's sense of humor. Plus, I really believe that he's 246 00:12:06,558 --> 00:12:08,078 Speaker 1: talking to his glove a lot to make sure that 247 00:12:08,078 --> 00:12:11,598 Speaker 1: it's working properly. When I first got him, when we 248 00:12:11,598 --> 00:12:14,278 Speaker 1: first got him in Chicago, was told by the analytical 249 00:12:14,278 --> 00:12:16,598 Speaker 1: department that he was not really good on defense and 250 00:12:16,638 --> 00:12:19,638 Speaker 1: that m Chase sliders a lot and you're seeing that. 251 00:12:19,758 --> 00:12:22,638 Speaker 1: So I was suggested to me to not play him 252 00:12:22,678 --> 00:12:25,078 Speaker 1: every day that first week that we got him, and 253 00:12:25,198 --> 00:12:28,238 Speaker 1: I was, really, are you kidding me? So my question 254 00:12:28,358 --> 00:12:30,758 Speaker 1: was to the group, why is he not a uh 255 00:12:31,078 --> 00:12:32,798 Speaker 1: why why do you consider him a below average out 256 00:12:32,798 --> 00:12:35,958 Speaker 1: fuel to give me some information. I was thinking technique primarily, 257 00:12:36,598 --> 00:12:39,878 Speaker 1: but they were unable to provide an answer regarding technique. 258 00:12:39,958 --> 00:12:42,438 Speaker 1: So what I've done in the past normally with the 259 00:12:42,478 --> 00:12:44,678 Speaker 1: guy that I've heard that about, because it's all based 260 00:12:44,718 --> 00:12:48,478 Speaker 1: on the index numbers and uh, the the amount of 261 00:12:48,478 --> 00:12:51,078 Speaker 1: ground you could cover. I said, Nikki, just do me 262 00:12:51,118 --> 00:12:54,678 Speaker 1: a favorite. Play deeper, Play a little bit deeper. Um, 263 00:12:54,718 --> 00:12:56,518 Speaker 1: if the ball falls in front of you, no big deal, 264 00:12:56,598 --> 00:12:58,158 Speaker 1: but if it gets over your head, it's a little 265 00:12:58,158 --> 00:13:00,358 Speaker 1: bit more problematic. So I just want you to play 266 00:13:00,358 --> 00:13:02,638 Speaker 1: a little bit deeper and then work with everything in 267 00:13:02,678 --> 00:13:05,438 Speaker 1: front of you. And I that whole time I had 268 00:13:05,518 --> 00:13:07,438 Speaker 1: him there with the Cubs a couple of months, I 269 00:13:07,878 --> 00:13:10,518 Speaker 1: we would never jeopardized by his play in left field. 270 00:13:10,958 --> 00:13:13,478 Speaker 1: Not only the play yesterday, but he's made another diving play. 271 00:13:13,558 --> 00:13:16,998 Speaker 1: More recently in Philadelphia. Also Nicks into it. Man, he's 272 00:13:16,998 --> 00:13:19,558 Speaker 1: into it. He does you criticize him like that, He's 273 00:13:19,558 --> 00:13:22,518 Speaker 1: gonna do something about it. Um. He had been in 274 00:13:22,558 --> 00:13:24,758 Speaker 1: the infield in the past a little bit with Detroit too, 275 00:13:24,798 --> 00:13:27,078 Speaker 1: So I'm really happy for the guy. Listen, he's he 276 00:13:27,158 --> 00:13:29,318 Speaker 1: loves baseball. Before every game, he would come up to 277 00:13:29,358 --> 00:13:31,838 Speaker 1: me before every game in Chicago, come up, shake my 278 00:13:31,878 --> 00:13:34,318 Speaker 1: hand and say, because Nick's looks Nick looks you right 279 00:13:34,358 --> 00:13:35,918 Speaker 1: in the eyeballs, you don't look around you to look 280 00:13:35,958 --> 00:13:39,318 Speaker 1: like your forehead. Happy opening day. He saved me every day. 281 00:13:39,358 --> 00:13:41,838 Speaker 1: Come up to me in the dug a happy opening day, 282 00:13:42,438 --> 00:13:44,158 Speaker 1: that little smirk, that little smile, and then he go 283 00:13:44,198 --> 00:13:46,198 Speaker 1: along to his business. I really am a big fan 284 00:13:46,238 --> 00:13:48,438 Speaker 1: of this guy. Yeah, he's a tough cookie. And by 285 00:13:48,478 --> 00:13:52,238 Speaker 1: the way, if you notice World Series Game one up 286 00:13:52,278 --> 00:13:56,598 Speaker 1: by a run, Rob Thompson keeps his corner outfielders in 287 00:13:56,638 --> 00:14:00,078 Speaker 1: the game, Kyle Schwarber and Nick Castanos. Now, there's a 288 00:14:00,158 --> 00:14:02,598 Speaker 1: lot of managers who would take them off the field, 289 00:14:02,598 --> 00:14:06,438 Speaker 1: and there are times when Thompson has done that. I 290 00:14:06,478 --> 00:14:10,198 Speaker 1: asked Rob Thompson about that, and he he knew that 291 00:14:10,958 --> 00:14:15,758 Speaker 1: that Alvarez was leading off the tenth inning for Houston. Really, 292 00:14:15,958 --> 00:14:18,558 Speaker 1: you can't discount the ability of Alvarez at the ball 293 00:14:18,598 --> 00:14:21,158 Speaker 1: out of the ballpark. It's a one run game. Schwarber 294 00:14:21,318 --> 00:14:24,518 Speaker 1: was due up second if the game got to an 295 00:14:24,518 --> 00:14:27,798 Speaker 1: eleventh inning, and he just couldn't take those two bats 296 00:14:27,838 --> 00:14:30,078 Speaker 1: out of his lineup in a one run game, thinking, 297 00:14:30,518 --> 00:14:32,758 Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of times when managers do 298 00:14:32,878 --> 00:14:36,118 Speaker 1: that and that spot does come around. So give him 299 00:14:36,158 --> 00:14:40,478 Speaker 1: credit again trusting his players, leaving guys in who are not, 300 00:14:40,558 --> 00:14:43,478 Speaker 1: let's face it, plus defenders, but they're good enough to 301 00:14:43,518 --> 00:14:46,118 Speaker 1: trust with the game on the line in the World Series. Yeah, 302 00:14:46,118 --> 00:14:47,918 Speaker 1: if you know the guys coming up the next inning 303 00:14:47,918 --> 00:14:49,838 Speaker 1: and that tide of a game, you gotta you take 304 00:14:49,878 --> 00:14:52,398 Speaker 1: that chance one way or the other. Um, So I 305 00:14:52,478 --> 00:14:54,678 Speaker 1: understand that I've done the same thing. Sometimes you'll just 306 00:14:54,798 --> 00:14:56,998 Speaker 1: often say no, I really want the defense right here, 307 00:14:57,878 --> 00:15:00,278 Speaker 1: otherwise you will do exactly what he had done, which 308 00:15:00,318 --> 00:15:02,358 Speaker 1: warps coming up second. So those are the kind of 309 00:15:02,358 --> 00:15:05,318 Speaker 1: thoughts that you have, and again postgame, those aren't the 310 00:15:05,398 --> 00:15:07,718 Speaker 1: kind of thoughts that are evaluated all the time. I mean, 311 00:15:07,718 --> 00:15:11,798 Speaker 1: it's always normally based on how a manager utilizes bullpen. 312 00:15:11,838 --> 00:15:15,438 Speaker 1: That's where the scrutiny comes is involved, or possibly a 313 00:15:15,518 --> 00:15:17,758 Speaker 1: pitch hitting situation. But those are the kind of thoughts 314 00:15:17,838 --> 00:15:20,118 Speaker 1: that you have during the course of the game that 315 00:15:20,158 --> 00:15:22,398 Speaker 1: he had. Nobody recognizes that nobody talks about. And I 316 00:15:22,398 --> 00:15:24,558 Speaker 1: had the ball been hit to Nick or or Kyle 317 00:15:24,638 --> 00:15:26,638 Speaker 1: and they had a tough moment, it absolutely would have 318 00:15:26,638 --> 00:15:29,718 Speaker 1: been brought up. So you take your chances. Sometimes you 319 00:15:29,998 --> 00:15:32,598 Speaker 1: know your guys, you know what you're feeling. And furthermore, 320 00:15:33,158 --> 00:15:35,478 Speaker 1: I was it was it Albarez and then who else? 321 00:15:35,518 --> 00:15:37,838 Speaker 1: And then Tucker coming up that inning, and if that's 322 00:15:37,918 --> 00:15:40,558 Speaker 1: I think that in the middle. So I sticking ball 323 00:15:40,598 --> 00:15:43,078 Speaker 1: in the stands like you're saying, he wasn't worried about 324 00:15:43,078 --> 00:15:45,278 Speaker 1: singles right there, a bloopers. He was worried about those 325 00:15:45,278 --> 00:15:47,278 Speaker 1: guys putting the ball in the stands more than anything. 326 00:15:47,358 --> 00:15:51,478 Speaker 1: So they're uncatchable plays too, So he he had all that, 327 00:15:51,798 --> 00:15:54,278 Speaker 1: all those different items thought out at that point. Yeah, 328 00:15:54,318 --> 00:15:56,678 Speaker 1: And there was a great shot of Kyle Schwarberg. Again, 329 00:15:56,718 --> 00:16:00,718 Speaker 1: another guy is just a real smart player. Once the 330 00:16:00,998 --> 00:16:05,038 Speaker 1: Astros got the tying run in scoring position, reminding Brandon 331 00:16:05,078 --> 00:16:07,558 Speaker 1: marsh and center field to play further in because they 332 00:16:07,598 --> 00:16:10,038 Speaker 1: had been in no doubles. Obviously, with the base is empty. 333 00:16:10,398 --> 00:16:12,038 Speaker 1: Now with the runner at second, you need to get 334 00:16:12,078 --> 00:16:14,038 Speaker 1: in an area where you can throw that runner out 335 00:16:14,038 --> 00:16:16,678 Speaker 1: at the plate or at least challenge that runner. And 336 00:16:16,678 --> 00:16:19,478 Speaker 1: this is right before the great catch by Castianos. Now 337 00:16:19,598 --> 00:16:23,238 Speaker 1: Shoreber told me he also mentioned motioned to Castianos to 338 00:16:23,318 --> 00:16:26,198 Speaker 1: move a step in, but Castianos already had done, so 339 00:16:26,438 --> 00:16:28,398 Speaker 1: I mean he was aware of it. And Shober said that, 340 00:16:28,438 --> 00:16:31,158 Speaker 1: he said, I got Marcia's attention. But this is a 341 00:16:31,198 --> 00:16:33,918 Speaker 1: team that pays attention. And Joe, we talked about this, 342 00:16:34,598 --> 00:16:39,078 Speaker 1: uh about the kind of player this Phillies team is 343 00:16:39,158 --> 00:16:42,078 Speaker 1: loaded with. Their loaded with players from age twenty four 344 00:16:42,478 --> 00:16:45,798 Speaker 1: to thirty two who have never won before. Most of them. 345 00:16:45,798 --> 00:16:47,838 Speaker 1: They only have four guys on their roster who have 346 00:16:47,918 --> 00:16:53,878 Speaker 1: been to a World Series Castiano's Real, Muto Wheeler, Nola Cigura, 347 00:16:53,958 --> 00:16:56,958 Speaker 1: all these guys, they're in the postseason for the first time, 348 00:16:57,078 --> 00:17:00,518 Speaker 1: never mind just the World Series. They have a hungry group, 349 00:17:00,838 --> 00:17:03,598 Speaker 1: there's no question about it. But they also have enough 350 00:17:03,598 --> 00:17:06,758 Speaker 1: exped burience to have been around the block. And Jane 351 00:17:06,758 --> 00:17:09,558 Speaker 1: Sigura had the quote of the postseason for me when 352 00:17:09,558 --> 00:17:13,678 Speaker 1: he said, Listen, you know I'm good financially, I've done 353 00:17:13,678 --> 00:17:16,398 Speaker 1: everything I want. But now I want to win. And 354 00:17:16,398 --> 00:17:19,558 Speaker 1: this brings me back to your five levels of being 355 00:17:19,558 --> 00:17:21,998 Speaker 1: a professional. And if you read the Book of Joe, 356 00:17:22,198 --> 00:17:24,598 Speaker 1: You've got to read that chapter. If nothing else, it 357 00:17:24,638 --> 00:17:27,918 Speaker 1: really hones in on you know, where we are ourselves, 358 00:17:27,958 --> 00:17:31,558 Speaker 1: whether we play baseball or in the workplace in terms 359 00:17:31,598 --> 00:17:35,478 Speaker 1: of feeling comfortable at what you do. And Joe, this 360 00:17:35,558 --> 00:17:39,198 Speaker 1: team is loaded with what you call level five players. 361 00:17:39,238 --> 00:17:42,438 Speaker 1: How about that? Yeah, I mean exactly right on. It 362 00:17:42,518 --> 00:17:45,078 Speaker 1: started this thing with the five levels of being a professional. 363 00:17:45,118 --> 00:17:47,478 Speaker 1: I thought it in just in baseball terms, but as 364 00:17:47,478 --> 00:17:51,478 Speaker 1: you suggested, I think it applies another excuse me arenas 365 00:17:51,518 --> 00:17:54,878 Speaker 1: to level one, happy to be your level to survival. 366 00:17:54,958 --> 00:17:57,958 Speaker 1: I like this. I want to stay here. Level three 367 00:17:58,718 --> 00:18:00,238 Speaker 1: I belong to I can do this, and we all 368 00:18:00,238 --> 00:18:02,478 Speaker 1: have to write at that point to truly be successful 369 00:18:02,518 --> 00:18:05,078 Speaker 1: in our occupation. Level four or God, I want to 370 00:18:05,078 --> 00:18:06,958 Speaker 1: make as much money as I possibly can. I got 371 00:18:06,958 --> 00:18:08,318 Speaker 1: to take care of my family. I want to try 372 00:18:08,318 --> 00:18:09,918 Speaker 1: to set it up for the future. But they get 373 00:18:09,958 --> 00:18:13,478 Speaker 1: to level five after you've accomplished those first four steps. 374 00:18:13,758 --> 00:18:15,878 Speaker 1: All I want to do is win, whether it's a 375 00:18:16,038 --> 00:18:19,878 Speaker 1: as a baseball player, whether whatever job you might have, 376 00:18:19,958 --> 00:18:21,478 Speaker 1: you get to that point you just want to be 377 00:18:21,518 --> 00:18:23,478 Speaker 1: the best at what you do. And I think a 378 00:18:23,478 --> 00:18:25,398 Speaker 1: lot of these guys are are at that point in 379 00:18:25,438 --> 00:18:28,078 Speaker 1: their careers. Yeah. I would even throw Bryce Harper in 380 00:18:28,118 --> 00:18:30,518 Speaker 1: that group. And I know, of course all the accolades. 381 00:18:30,558 --> 00:18:32,798 Speaker 1: Of course, the two m v p s. It's not 382 00:18:32,838 --> 00:18:35,638 Speaker 1: to say he didn't want to win before. And Joe, 383 00:18:35,958 --> 00:18:37,878 Speaker 1: maybe you can explain this further, and I know you 384 00:18:37,958 --> 00:18:40,998 Speaker 1: do this really really well in the book. You know, 385 00:18:41,118 --> 00:18:43,518 Speaker 1: for a guy who wants to get established, take care 386 00:18:43,558 --> 00:18:46,998 Speaker 1: of his family, makes some money, nothing wrong with that, right, 387 00:18:47,038 --> 00:18:50,358 Speaker 1: of course not. No, that's natural, and I I really 388 00:18:50,558 --> 00:18:53,478 Speaker 1: promote that. It's it's just a natural progression as you become, 389 00:18:54,198 --> 00:18:56,998 Speaker 1: you get through your baseball career or your career in general. 390 00:18:57,678 --> 00:18:59,998 Speaker 1: You can't slide anybody for that, especially in our game 391 00:18:59,998 --> 00:19:03,158 Speaker 1: where the shelf life is normally very shorts. There's so others. 392 00:19:03,678 --> 00:19:06,238 Speaker 1: It's some that have the great fortune to have wonderful 393 00:19:06,278 --> 00:19:09,198 Speaker 1: bodies that don't break down, and wonderful athletic ability, and 394 00:19:09,198 --> 00:19:11,518 Speaker 1: they're able to do this longer. But for the most part, 395 00:19:11,598 --> 00:19:14,118 Speaker 1: it's not that long of a career, and even even 396 00:19:14,158 --> 00:19:16,118 Speaker 1: a tenure career is not that long if you look 397 00:19:16,118 --> 00:19:18,638 Speaker 1: back at it. So yeah, you've got to go through 398 00:19:18,678 --> 00:19:22,438 Speaker 1: those stages. I never ever slide anybody that really wants 399 00:19:22,438 --> 00:19:24,798 Speaker 1: to take care of their family and of course themselves. 400 00:19:25,118 --> 00:19:27,278 Speaker 1: But that's just a natural human progression that I think 401 00:19:27,358 --> 00:19:29,598 Speaker 1: is a big part of the five levels. But you 402 00:19:29,638 --> 00:19:32,318 Speaker 1: want to get guys from one um, I'm happy to 403 00:19:32,358 --> 00:19:34,158 Speaker 1: be here, the number three I belong to. I can 404 00:19:34,198 --> 00:19:36,438 Speaker 1: do this. To number five, all I want to do 405 00:19:36,718 --> 00:19:38,718 Speaker 1: is win and get in and out of two and 406 00:19:38,758 --> 00:19:41,758 Speaker 1: four as quickly as you can. Survival. Survival stage is 407 00:19:41,798 --> 00:19:45,438 Speaker 1: a very dangerous stage to being because those guys there 408 00:19:45,438 --> 00:19:48,038 Speaker 1: are just trying to please and they're trying not to 409 00:19:48,078 --> 00:19:50,918 Speaker 1: make mistakes, and it's really not about winning yet, it's 410 00:19:50,958 --> 00:19:53,998 Speaker 1: just about them staying there because I really like this. 411 00:19:54,078 --> 00:19:56,678 Speaker 1: I like being a major leagues. I like these ballparks 412 00:19:56,678 --> 00:19:59,278 Speaker 1: and the big crowds and flying on a chartered airplane. 413 00:19:59,278 --> 00:20:01,438 Speaker 1: I love all this stuff. And then you get through 414 00:20:01,438 --> 00:20:03,198 Speaker 1: that to three. I belong here, I can do this, 415 00:20:03,238 --> 00:20:05,318 Speaker 1: and let's get and out of four. Let's make our dough. 416 00:20:05,798 --> 00:20:07,798 Speaker 1: Let's get that nice contract, whatever it may be and 417 00:20:07,878 --> 00:20:11,118 Speaker 1: really keep our focus where it needs to be from 418 00:20:11,158 --> 00:20:13,198 Speaker 1: the first day of spring training to the last game 419 00:20:13,198 --> 00:20:14,718 Speaker 1: of the season. And that's all they want to do 420 00:20:14,758 --> 00:20:16,998 Speaker 1: is win. Yeah, And I just want to add one 421 00:20:16,998 --> 00:20:19,038 Speaker 1: more layer to that, Joe, when it comes to the 422 00:20:19,078 --> 00:20:21,918 Speaker 1: construct of the Phillies, and that is and you did 423 00:20:21,958 --> 00:20:24,678 Speaker 1: a great job describing where these players are at their 424 00:20:24,758 --> 00:20:28,758 Speaker 1: belief in their manager, so that when Rob Thompson goes 425 00:20:28,838 --> 00:20:32,518 Speaker 1: to his typical, say seventh or eighth inning guy Alvarado 426 00:20:32,678 --> 00:20:35,958 Speaker 1: in the fifth inning, they don't roll their eyes. They 427 00:20:35,998 --> 00:20:38,038 Speaker 1: all told me to a man, and I spoke to three, 428 00:20:38,118 --> 00:20:40,798 Speaker 1: four or five six of them after the game. They 429 00:20:40,838 --> 00:20:43,838 Speaker 1: just don't question to move. It works out for Rob Thompson. 430 00:20:44,118 --> 00:20:46,878 Speaker 1: They love the guy and if he's doing it, they 431 00:20:46,958 --> 00:20:50,238 Speaker 1: understand that he has reasons for doing it. And the 432 00:20:50,278 --> 00:20:52,398 Speaker 1: relief pitcher is more importantly, they're all ready to go 433 00:20:52,518 --> 00:20:55,318 Speaker 1: no matter what. The belief in the manager here is 434 00:20:55,398 --> 00:20:58,278 Speaker 1: really powerful and that's what that's wonderful, and that's very 435 00:20:58,638 --> 00:21:01,398 Speaker 1: necessary to have a successful team, one that can't play 436 00:21:01,478 --> 00:21:04,038 Speaker 1: the last game of the year and win it. Uh uh. 437 00:21:04,518 --> 00:21:06,878 Speaker 1: The players sometimes don't understand, but they will and they 438 00:21:06,918 --> 00:21:08,798 Speaker 1: are right now that the game is different right now 439 00:21:08,798 --> 00:21:10,798 Speaker 1: in the sense that we've talked about. You have to 440 00:21:10,798 --> 00:21:14,558 Speaker 1: be less patient, more assertive, more aggressive in different moments. 441 00:21:15,038 --> 00:21:16,598 Speaker 1: And I think that's just that is a part of 442 00:21:16,598 --> 00:21:20,038 Speaker 1: the analytical world. This this kind of a method has 443 00:21:20,118 --> 00:21:23,318 Speaker 1: been adopted over the last ten fifteen years where you're 444 00:21:23,318 --> 00:21:25,558 Speaker 1: more apt to do something like that, You're more apt 445 00:21:25,558 --> 00:21:28,118 Speaker 1: to go to one of your late guys early. And 446 00:21:28,158 --> 00:21:30,878 Speaker 1: again that needs to be nurtured before the game because 447 00:21:30,918 --> 00:21:33,078 Speaker 1: you have to tell these guys to be ready earlier 448 00:21:33,078 --> 00:21:36,078 Speaker 1: than normal. Bullpen guys are very structured. They have this 449 00:21:36,158 --> 00:21:38,398 Speaker 1: method of getting ready on a nightly basis, whether it's 450 00:21:38,398 --> 00:21:40,598 Speaker 1: when they get their arm rubbed down or ready exercise 451 00:21:41,118 --> 00:21:44,238 Speaker 1: inside inside, to how much they play catch before they 452 00:21:44,278 --> 00:21:45,958 Speaker 1: actually come in the game. So all this stuff needs 453 00:21:45,958 --> 00:21:50,078 Speaker 1: to be communicated well in advanced coaches. Bullpen coach, pitching 454 00:21:50,158 --> 00:21:52,278 Speaker 1: coach really need to be on top of this in 455 00:21:52,358 --> 00:21:54,838 Speaker 1: order to get this nice flow going to have like 456 00:21:54,958 --> 00:21:57,158 Speaker 1: an eighth or ninth inning guys, let's say, seventh or 457 00:21:57,198 --> 00:21:59,678 Speaker 1: eighth Thanny guy ready in the fifth or sixth inning. Well, 458 00:21:59,718 --> 00:22:04,598 Speaker 1: we haven't touched on the Euston astros yet. And justin Verlander, Wow, 459 00:22:04,838 --> 00:22:08,078 Speaker 1: what happened. Take a quick break and we'll dive into 460 00:22:08,118 --> 00:22:10,638 Speaker 1: that when we get back on the Book of Joe podcast. 461 00:22:19,838 --> 00:22:22,718 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast. Justin Verlander 462 00:22:22,798 --> 00:22:27,638 Speaker 1: had a five nothing lead and the Astros lost the 463 00:22:27,638 --> 00:22:30,758 Speaker 1: game at home. I mean, listen, I know that Phillies 464 00:22:30,798 --> 00:22:33,078 Speaker 1: are a red hot team. I was shocked to see 465 00:22:33,118 --> 00:22:36,238 Speaker 1: it that the game got away from Houston. It was 466 00:22:36,358 --> 00:22:39,158 Speaker 1: interesting to me Joe watching Verlander. I thought he came 467 00:22:39,198 --> 00:22:42,918 Speaker 1: out really establishing that that fastball with a great ride 468 00:22:42,998 --> 00:22:46,998 Speaker 1: on it through sixty seven percent fastballs first time through 469 00:22:46,998 --> 00:22:50,278 Speaker 1: the lineup, and Phillies just weren't catching up to it. 470 00:22:50,318 --> 00:22:53,598 Speaker 1: I mean the the a bat with Bryce Harper, three 471 00:22:53,638 --> 00:22:56,798 Speaker 1: straight heaters riding up in the zone that he was underneath, 472 00:22:56,958 --> 00:22:59,718 Speaker 1: so he was on point, and then things started to 473 00:22:59,758 --> 00:23:01,438 Speaker 1: get a little squirrely on him, and when he got 474 00:23:01,438 --> 00:23:04,078 Speaker 1: in trouble, he started going to his breaking pitches is 475 00:23:04,598 --> 00:23:07,318 Speaker 1: and hung three of them for three consecutive hits where 476 00:23:07,358 --> 00:23:09,918 Speaker 1: they came back and tied the game. It was strange 477 00:23:09,958 --> 00:23:12,038 Speaker 1: to see. I don't know, it's hard for me to 478 00:23:12,078 --> 00:23:16,038 Speaker 1: explain Joe that Justin Verlander, who has done everything in 479 00:23:16,078 --> 00:23:18,438 Speaker 1: this game, first ballot Hall of Fame or just a 480 00:23:18,518 --> 00:23:22,598 Speaker 1: spectacular competitor and pitcher would have the kind of World 481 00:23:22,678 --> 00:23:25,478 Speaker 1: Series record that he has now eight starts in the 482 00:23:25,678 --> 00:23:29,598 Speaker 1: r A over five no wins in the World Series. Again, 483 00:23:29,878 --> 00:23:32,198 Speaker 1: I don't know how to explain it. It's not that 484 00:23:32,318 --> 00:23:34,638 Speaker 1: small of a sample. Nobody has started as many World 485 00:23:34,678 --> 00:23:38,238 Speaker 1: Series games without a win as Justin Verlander. But it 486 00:23:38,278 --> 00:23:40,718 Speaker 1: was perplexing to see. Credit to the Phillies, of course, 487 00:23:40,798 --> 00:23:43,318 Speaker 1: but very odd. Yeah, I'm with you. I I was 488 00:23:43,358 --> 00:23:45,518 Speaker 1: really surprised about the usage at that time. Now, the 489 00:23:45,558 --> 00:23:47,798 Speaker 1: pitch to Nikki Castianos was a good pitch, he just 490 00:23:47,838 --> 00:23:50,678 Speaker 1: one handed it out to left field, but real mudo 491 00:23:50,758 --> 00:23:55,838 Speaker 1: and bomb. How do you say boom? Yeah? Yeah, those 492 00:23:55,838 --> 00:23:59,238 Speaker 1: are those are bad breaking balls, um and and again. Yeah. 493 00:23:59,238 --> 00:24:01,118 Speaker 1: I was wondering, why do we get away from the 494 00:24:01,158 --> 00:24:03,438 Speaker 1: fastball there? They really had no chance on his fastball 495 00:24:03,518 --> 00:24:05,598 Speaker 1: last night. Can even see on television the right on 496 00:24:05,598 --> 00:24:08,438 Speaker 1: that pitch. It's not surprised, I mean the first time through. 497 00:24:08,438 --> 00:24:11,198 Speaker 1: It was probably their game plan. Listen, first time through, 498 00:24:11,198 --> 00:24:13,078 Speaker 1: We're gonna really beat him up with the fastball. We're 499 00:24:13,078 --> 00:24:14,958 Speaker 1: gonna save the other stuff for later. We're gonna come 500 00:24:14,998 --> 00:24:17,438 Speaker 1: back with it, which is fine, and I get it. 501 00:24:18,078 --> 00:24:21,638 Speaker 1: But and again to the breaking balls, especially bonds, that 502 00:24:21,798 --> 00:24:24,718 Speaker 1: was a hanger right there. Real Moto had to reach 503 00:24:24,758 --> 00:24:27,598 Speaker 1: a little bit, and Nikki's was actually a good pitch. 504 00:24:27,678 --> 00:24:31,198 Speaker 1: But nevertheless, the fastball was that dominating last night, I thought, 505 00:24:31,798 --> 00:24:33,878 Speaker 1: And normally you would just want to stay with that 506 00:24:33,958 --> 00:24:35,998 Speaker 1: until they proved to you that they can't do something 507 00:24:36,078 --> 00:24:39,238 Speaker 1: with it. Because all right, even after that, even after 508 00:24:39,238 --> 00:24:41,358 Speaker 1: the couple of knocks, anytime we throw that fastball up 509 00:24:41,358 --> 00:24:43,558 Speaker 1: in his own it had really good right to it. 510 00:24:43,598 --> 00:24:45,118 Speaker 1: So I was I was kind of surprised with the 511 00:24:45,118 --> 00:24:47,718 Speaker 1: Pitts selection. I'm not a second guesser by any means, 512 00:24:47,718 --> 00:24:49,958 Speaker 1: but I was watching that and wondering why they were 513 00:24:49,958 --> 00:24:52,478 Speaker 1: getting off the breaking ball, I mean off the fastball 514 00:24:52,478 --> 00:24:55,158 Speaker 1: and big moments and slowing the pitch down and given 515 00:24:55,198 --> 00:24:56,918 Speaker 1: the hit, the more time to react. That was really 516 00:24:56,958 --> 00:25:00,358 Speaker 1: surprised by that. Yeah, listen, yeah, have a ton of experience. 517 00:25:00,398 --> 00:25:02,278 Speaker 1: We all know that it's just one game out of 518 00:25:02,318 --> 00:25:05,118 Speaker 1: the seven game series. But I thought it was super 519 00:25:05,158 --> 00:25:08,918 Speaker 1: important for Philadelphia to split these first two games. I 520 00:25:08,958 --> 00:25:12,238 Speaker 1: did not see them if they go home down oh two, 521 00:25:12,758 --> 00:25:16,718 Speaker 1: winning four of five against a hundred and six win 522 00:25:16,838 --> 00:25:19,758 Speaker 1: Houston team that's at that point would have had nine 523 00:25:19,798 --> 00:25:23,918 Speaker 1: consecutive wins in the postseason. So with Nola and Wheeler 524 00:25:23,998 --> 00:25:26,758 Speaker 1: starting the first two games, I thought they have to 525 00:25:26,838 --> 00:25:30,078 Speaker 1: get one game. Well, they got a game. They took 526 00:25:30,118 --> 00:25:32,678 Speaker 1: it right out of the pocket of the Houston Astros. 527 00:25:32,718 --> 00:25:34,758 Speaker 1: And now they've got their guy with for me, has 528 00:25:34,838 --> 00:25:38,558 Speaker 1: their best stuff, Zach Wheeler going in Game two. Joe 529 00:25:38,638 --> 00:25:41,598 Speaker 1: or the Houston Astros in trouble right now, Well, we'll see. 530 00:25:42,678 --> 00:25:45,918 Speaker 1: They're they're good. They're good, They're resilient. They have Actually 531 00:25:45,958 --> 00:25:47,878 Speaker 1: they swung to bets really well less Nan until they 532 00:25:47,878 --> 00:25:51,038 Speaker 1: got to that bullpen. Um. Um, we'll see. I liked 533 00:25:51,038 --> 00:25:53,798 Speaker 1: their picture, and I like Bald there's a lot um 534 00:25:53,838 --> 00:25:55,918 Speaker 1: he is problematic, and actually I like I like him 535 00:25:55,918 --> 00:25:57,798 Speaker 1: on rightings as much, maybe even a little bit more 536 00:25:57,918 --> 00:26:00,518 Speaker 1: than I left these Sometimes that curb ball underneath that 537 00:26:00,638 --> 00:26:03,358 Speaker 1: sincred the balls on the ground. Um, it's gonna be 538 00:26:03,358 --> 00:26:04,958 Speaker 1: a tough He's gonna be a tough guy to put 539 00:26:04,998 --> 00:26:07,878 Speaker 1: those kind of numbers up that many runs against tonight, 540 00:26:07,958 --> 00:26:10,878 Speaker 1: as as opposed to what they did with Darrylander last night. 541 00:26:11,318 --> 00:26:13,198 Speaker 1: I'm a big Wheeler fan. I you know, a couple 542 00:26:13,198 --> 00:26:14,718 Speaker 1: of years ago with the Angels, that was the guy 543 00:26:14,798 --> 00:26:16,518 Speaker 1: that I really wanted us to target when he was 544 00:26:16,558 --> 00:26:19,438 Speaker 1: a free agent. I've always been a big fan of his. 545 00:26:19,678 --> 00:26:22,878 Speaker 1: I I love his fastball of the way he's almost 546 00:26:22,918 --> 00:26:24,838 Speaker 1: like one of the easiest throwers. He's very close to 547 00:26:24,838 --> 00:26:26,758 Speaker 1: the Gromp to me when I watch him, how the 548 00:26:26,798 --> 00:26:29,678 Speaker 1: ball comes out of his hand. Um, if he's on 549 00:26:29,758 --> 00:26:31,558 Speaker 1: top of his game, it's going to be one another 550 00:26:31,558 --> 00:26:34,038 Speaker 1: one of those one nothing to one things. But you're right, 551 00:26:34,038 --> 00:26:35,998 Speaker 1: I mean, Houston really needs to get back on top 552 00:26:36,038 --> 00:26:38,118 Speaker 1: of this thing. If it gets back to Philly too 553 00:26:38,198 --> 00:26:42,038 Speaker 1: down uh and that ballpark, with that that that fanatical 554 00:26:42,078 --> 00:26:45,238 Speaker 1: fan base, it's gonna be very difficult. I'm a big 555 00:26:45,318 --> 00:26:47,718 Speaker 1: Valdess fan. A Valdez is that good too, So it's 556 00:26:47,798 --> 00:26:51,158 Speaker 1: it's gonna be low scoring. And if Valdez is commanding 557 00:26:51,198 --> 00:26:53,678 Speaker 1: his fastward getting that bunch of ground balls, he's gonna 558 00:26:53,678 --> 00:26:56,558 Speaker 1: be really tough. By the way, that Game three at 559 00:26:56,598 --> 00:27:02,638 Speaker 1: the Bank in Philly Halloween night crazy, Well, I've been 560 00:27:02,638 --> 00:27:04,558 Speaker 1: there for a two thousand and eight the World Series. 561 00:27:04,598 --> 00:27:07,518 Speaker 1: We played one of the games. They're after an Eagles game, 562 00:27:07,638 --> 00:27:11,878 Speaker 1: on the same day Eagles Afternoon, Students Bank at night. 563 00:27:12,038 --> 00:27:15,118 Speaker 1: Oh my god, it was it was different. That's best. 564 00:27:15,438 --> 00:27:17,278 Speaker 1: That was actually Halloween night and even though it wasn't 565 00:27:17,278 --> 00:27:20,158 Speaker 1: Halloween that night. Yeah, I'm glad to use that euphemism 566 00:27:20,278 --> 00:27:23,558 Speaker 1: different because the language coming out of the stands in 567 00:27:23,598 --> 00:27:26,638 Speaker 1: that place is like like anything else. And I'm a 568 00:27:26,678 --> 00:27:30,358 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania Hey on those two pictures. Valdez by the way, 569 00:27:30,438 --> 00:27:32,798 Speaker 1: against the Yankees, and I know they have definitely a 570 00:27:32,798 --> 00:27:35,278 Speaker 1: little more swing and miss in their lineup, but his 571 00:27:35,398 --> 00:27:40,598 Speaker 1: last start, he got sixteen swings and misses on that curveball. Sixteen. 572 00:27:41,118 --> 00:27:43,718 Speaker 1: Now we only have this kind of pitch tracking data 573 00:27:43,798 --> 00:27:46,718 Speaker 1: going back to two thousand eight. That is the most 574 00:27:46,758 --> 00:27:50,358 Speaker 1: swings and misses on a curveball in any postseason game 575 00:27:51,118 --> 00:27:55,318 Speaker 1: in recorded history. So you're dead on with that call. 576 00:27:55,358 --> 00:27:58,358 Speaker 1: And that curveball right left doesn't matter, especially on right. 577 00:27:59,038 --> 00:28:01,398 Speaker 1: He can be filthy. I actually I'm okay. I mean 578 00:28:01,438 --> 00:28:02,998 Speaker 1: I would take my shot with some if you have 579 00:28:03,038 --> 00:28:04,878 Speaker 1: a good left hand hit or the lineup versus him. 580 00:28:04,918 --> 00:28:07,078 Speaker 1: I kind of like that. I think it mitigates the 581 00:28:07,118 --> 00:28:09,878 Speaker 1: curve ball a little bit. I like opposite the like 582 00:28:09,918 --> 00:28:12,758 Speaker 1: a left handed curve against the right handed hitter like 583 00:28:12,798 --> 00:28:14,638 Speaker 1: a right handed curve against a left handed hitter. I 584 00:28:14,678 --> 00:28:18,278 Speaker 1: think it's more problematic than the same site curve. Left 585 00:28:18,278 --> 00:28:21,318 Speaker 1: on left I prefer like a good slider, uh and 586 00:28:21,438 --> 00:28:23,678 Speaker 1: right on right the same thing. I think it's a 587 00:28:23,718 --> 00:28:26,398 Speaker 1: contact pitch more right on right or left on left. 588 00:28:26,678 --> 00:28:29,398 Speaker 1: I think it's worth of a punch out pitch opposite side. 589 00:28:29,478 --> 00:28:31,838 Speaker 1: So he's his ball really dives, he gets on the 590 00:28:31,838 --> 00:28:34,838 Speaker 1: platter underneath the hitter. He commands that pitch well and 591 00:28:35,038 --> 00:28:36,958 Speaker 1: again he has got a great changeup too. So this 592 00:28:36,958 --> 00:28:41,998 Speaker 1: guy's got so many weapons, um, and he's hardly ever 593 00:28:42,118 --> 00:28:45,078 Speaker 1: in trouble. He pitches deeply in the games almost every 594 00:28:45,078 --> 00:28:47,318 Speaker 1: time he goes out there. I think he hasn't. I 595 00:28:47,318 --> 00:28:49,318 Speaker 1: don't even know how many consecutive games it's been now 596 00:28:49,398 --> 00:28:52,198 Speaker 1: for him. So there's there's a level of excellence of 597 00:28:52,278 --> 00:28:55,478 Speaker 1: this guy that's really unusual and different than than most 598 00:28:55,518 --> 00:28:58,118 Speaker 1: pitchers in today's game. Yeah, he keeps the ball off 599 00:28:58,158 --> 00:29:00,318 Speaker 1: the barrel too. When he's not getting swings and misses, 600 00:29:00,358 --> 00:29:03,038 Speaker 1: the balls on the ground usually weakly. And as for 601 00:29:03,118 --> 00:29:06,038 Speaker 1: wheel are great. All with the comp to Jacob Degram, 602 00:29:06,158 --> 00:29:08,918 Speaker 1: of course, they were teammates with the Mets, and Zach 603 00:29:08,958 --> 00:29:11,638 Speaker 1: Wheeler really learned a lot from watching and working with 604 00:29:11,718 --> 00:29:14,278 Speaker 1: Jacob de Gram. One thing he said was in his 605 00:29:14,318 --> 00:29:16,558 Speaker 1: bullpen sessions, he said, the hardest thing to do for 606 00:29:16,598 --> 00:29:19,118 Speaker 1: a picture is to control the fastball and gloves side. 607 00:29:19,358 --> 00:29:21,678 Speaker 1: And he said, watching de Gram and seeing the way 608 00:29:21,678 --> 00:29:25,878 Speaker 1: he worked bullpens, Wheeler incorporated a practice where he would 609 00:29:25,878 --> 00:29:29,598 Speaker 1: throw ten consecutive glove side fastballs to make sure he 610 00:29:29,638 --> 00:29:31,758 Speaker 1: could hone in on that pitch. It's the fulcrum to 611 00:29:31,878 --> 00:29:33,878 Speaker 1: a lot of things of what pictures do. Going back 612 00:29:33,878 --> 00:29:35,918 Speaker 1: to the Braves in the nineties, big part of their 613 00:29:35,958 --> 00:29:38,878 Speaker 1: game um. And he does that now. A guy who 614 00:29:38,918 --> 00:29:41,078 Speaker 1: used to spray that fastball a little bit. I think 615 00:29:41,118 --> 00:29:44,078 Speaker 1: he's got much much better command than a lot of 616 00:29:44,078 --> 00:29:47,398 Speaker 1: people think. And you're talking about a guy at and 617 00:29:47,518 --> 00:29:51,038 Speaker 1: quick story for you, Joe. You know. In fifteen the 618 00:29:51,078 --> 00:29:54,278 Speaker 1: Mets go to the World Series, Zach Wheeler was rehabbing 619 00:29:54,518 --> 00:29:57,998 Speaker 1: from Tommy John surgery in Port St. Lucy, Florida. He 620 00:29:58,078 --> 00:30:00,038 Speaker 1: says to the Mets, I want to go to the 621 00:30:00,078 --> 00:30:02,438 Speaker 1: World Series. I want to sit in the stands or 622 00:30:02,478 --> 00:30:04,918 Speaker 1: in the dugout. Really put the uniform mind going the dugout, 623 00:30:04,918 --> 00:30:07,158 Speaker 1: because I want to feel what that atmosphere is like, 624 00:30:07,278 --> 00:30:10,358 Speaker 1: so that someday when I'm there, I'm not surprised by 625 00:30:10,358 --> 00:30:13,118 Speaker 1: the vibe and the energy of the ballpark. The Mets 626 00:30:13,158 --> 00:30:16,358 Speaker 1: told him, no, you're not sitting on the in the dugout. 627 00:30:16,718 --> 00:30:18,998 Speaker 1: So he said, okay, get me tickets. I'll sit in 628 00:30:19,038 --> 00:30:21,358 Speaker 1: the stands and watch the game. They told him, no, 629 00:30:22,078 --> 00:30:24,478 Speaker 1: if you want to watch the game, you're welcome to 630 00:30:24,558 --> 00:30:27,798 Speaker 1: buy your own ticket. And Wheelers said, will forget that 631 00:30:28,358 --> 00:30:30,998 Speaker 1: buying my own ticket. And he watched the series on 632 00:30:31,078 --> 00:30:34,078 Speaker 1: TV in Port St. Lucy, Florida, and now he's in 633 00:30:34,078 --> 00:30:37,278 Speaker 1: the World Series. That sounds like fiction to me. My god, 634 00:30:37,318 --> 00:30:38,878 Speaker 1: how could that ever happen? I mean, if you have 635 00:30:38,878 --> 00:30:41,958 Speaker 1: a guy of that magnitude is important as he is 636 00:30:42,038 --> 00:30:44,838 Speaker 1: to you, why why would you? I mean, there may 637 00:30:44,878 --> 00:30:46,718 Speaker 1: have been rules to precluding for being a dug I 638 00:30:46,798 --> 00:30:48,758 Speaker 1: don't even know that, but my god, I can't even 639 00:30:48,798 --> 00:30:51,438 Speaker 1: believe that that was the conversation. Yeah, he's still, as 640 00:30:51,518 --> 00:30:53,878 Speaker 1: you might imagine, a little ticked off about the way 641 00:30:53,878 --> 00:30:55,958 Speaker 1: he was treated in that regard. But you're right. I 642 00:30:55,958 --> 00:30:59,998 Speaker 1: remember the Yankees with Derek Jeter in the postseason, he 643 00:31:00,078 --> 00:31:02,878 Speaker 1: was not on the active roster. They had him in 644 00:31:03,038 --> 00:31:06,118 Speaker 1: uniform in the dugout. And one of my favorite Jeter 645 00:31:06,278 --> 00:31:10,718 Speaker 1: stories is David Colin pitched his heart out in Game five. 646 00:31:10,798 --> 00:31:14,078 Speaker 1: He threw a gazillion pitches in that game, walked in 647 00:31:14,158 --> 00:31:16,838 Speaker 1: the tying run, finally taken out of the game, walks 648 00:31:16,878 --> 00:31:22,078 Speaker 1: off the field completely, just devastated, both physically emotionally. And 649 00:31:22,118 --> 00:31:24,558 Speaker 1: the first guy that gets up to shake his hand 650 00:31:25,078 --> 00:31:27,718 Speaker 1: out of the dugout at the Kingdom in Seattle was 651 00:31:27,758 --> 00:31:30,718 Speaker 1: Derek Jeter. I'll never forget that this is a rookie, 652 00:31:30,798 --> 00:31:34,118 Speaker 1: not even on the roster. But again, the Yankees did 653 00:31:34,118 --> 00:31:35,878 Speaker 1: the right thing by taking this guy. They knew it 654 00:31:35,958 --> 00:31:39,598 Speaker 1: was important to the franchise and having him in that 655 00:31:39,638 --> 00:31:42,758 Speaker 1: postseason environment. And I'm not saying that's why Derek Jeter 656 00:31:42,958 --> 00:31:45,478 Speaker 1: was Mr November, but it was a smart thing to 657 00:31:45,518 --> 00:31:49,918 Speaker 1: do let him experience that. So, Joe, I always go 658 00:31:49,998 --> 00:31:53,238 Speaker 1: to you from my go to music choices. Is there 659 00:31:53,238 --> 00:31:57,558 Speaker 1: anything Is there something that you've discovered recently? I mean, 660 00:31:57,598 --> 00:31:59,318 Speaker 1: as much as you've been in the rock and roll 661 00:31:59,478 --> 00:32:02,798 Speaker 1: your whole life, do you ever find some biscuits back? 662 00:32:02,998 --> 00:32:05,078 Speaker 1: You know, You're like Wow, how did I miss this guy? 663 00:32:05,318 --> 00:32:08,678 Speaker 1: I gotta find out more about this band, this group, 664 00:32:09,278 --> 00:32:14,118 Speaker 1: anything that has come across your playlist these days that 665 00:32:14,238 --> 00:32:16,638 Speaker 1: you're maybe discovering for the first time or maybe going 666 00:32:16,678 --> 00:32:18,998 Speaker 1: back to. Yeah, you know what the other I was 667 00:32:19,078 --> 00:32:22,998 Speaker 1: laying a house like on the flour here, stretching yesterday, 668 00:32:23,318 --> 00:32:25,998 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna go back. I hate the time I 669 00:32:26,038 --> 00:32:27,998 Speaker 1: have to go back for you. But Cheap Trick came on. 670 00:32:28,758 --> 00:32:31,678 Speaker 1: Cheap Trick came on. Cheap Trick was like venty nine 671 00:32:31,718 --> 00:32:33,958 Speaker 1: to me, was one of my zumer years. I was 672 00:32:33,998 --> 00:32:36,878 Speaker 1: in between gigs. I was just let go by the Angels, 673 00:32:36,878 --> 00:32:39,158 Speaker 1: and I was trying to catch on with the Bakersfield 674 00:32:39,198 --> 00:32:42,158 Speaker 1: Outlaws and T Lee Terry Lee and I were going 675 00:32:42,158 --> 00:32:44,718 Speaker 1: back to his home and m Saint Louis Obispo and 676 00:32:45,478 --> 00:32:47,198 Speaker 1: we're going down this big hill and his beat up 677 00:32:47,278 --> 00:32:49,958 Speaker 1: chavel man and and he was a big cheap trick guy, 678 00:32:49,958 --> 00:32:51,718 Speaker 1: and he turned me onto It's a Cheap Trick came 679 00:32:51,758 --> 00:32:54,278 Speaker 1: on the radio, and I could see going over forties 680 00:32:54,318 --> 00:32:56,118 Speaker 1: six and then down one on one to his his 681 00:32:56,158 --> 00:32:58,278 Speaker 1: cool pad down there, him and his parents. His parents 682 00:32:58,278 --> 00:33:02,318 Speaker 1: were professors in the university there and to to hang 683 00:33:02,318 --> 00:33:05,718 Speaker 1: out with t Le down there with Cheap Trick. Uh 684 00:33:05,718 --> 00:33:07,838 Speaker 1: it really brought me back break Like that's what music 685 00:33:07,878 --> 00:33:08,998 Speaker 1: does to me. He puts me in a place so 686 00:33:09,038 --> 00:33:10,798 Speaker 1: I could tell you there was a bad tire on 687 00:33:10,838 --> 00:33:13,398 Speaker 1: that car back left. I think it was just remember 688 00:33:13,438 --> 00:33:16,518 Speaker 1: stuff like that. But it was all about all about 689 00:33:16,598 --> 00:33:19,438 Speaker 1: cheap trick. Cheap trick. It's Teale would call it cheap trick. 690 00:33:19,918 --> 00:33:22,958 Speaker 1: And uh so that was my big moment yesterday, just 691 00:33:23,398 --> 00:33:25,878 Speaker 1: stretching getting ready to place a round of golf here 692 00:33:25,878 --> 00:33:28,838 Speaker 1: at the Belly Country. Cheap Trick now cheap Trick. I 693 00:33:28,838 --> 00:33:31,598 Speaker 1: remember cheap Trick, but I can't remember Joe whether cheap 694 00:33:31,598 --> 00:33:34,438 Speaker 1: Trick was cool at one point or where they always 695 00:33:34,518 --> 00:33:37,078 Speaker 1: sort of a guilty pleasure where you like, didn't admit 696 00:33:37,118 --> 00:33:39,958 Speaker 1: that you liked them. Yeah, you're probably, I mean, t 697 00:33:40,118 --> 00:33:42,558 Speaker 1: Le's that kind of guy. Cherry Lee was one of 698 00:33:42,598 --> 00:33:44,278 Speaker 1: the best low ball hitters I've ever been around in 699 00:33:44,278 --> 00:33:47,358 Speaker 1: my life. Great really funny guy. But yeah, I think 700 00:33:47,358 --> 00:33:49,158 Speaker 1: it was more of a you had to be like 701 00:33:49,198 --> 00:33:51,638 Speaker 1: a closet fan in the beginning. But now, man, I 702 00:33:51,718 --> 00:33:54,358 Speaker 1: probably proclaimed that I'm a huge cheap Trick fan. That's 703 00:33:54,438 --> 00:33:57,718 Speaker 1: great stuff and By the way, Dusty Baker, like us, 704 00:33:57,958 --> 00:34:01,558 Speaker 1: loves his music. Before Game one last night he was 705 00:34:01,838 --> 00:34:04,758 Speaker 1: he had Muddy Waters on the playlist, So it's probably 706 00:34:04,798 --> 00:34:06,998 Speaker 1: gonna have to change it up here for game to see. 707 00:34:07,038 --> 00:34:10,358 Speaker 1: If the Astros mojo changes for the better, we'll see 708 00:34:10,878 --> 00:34:14,438 Speaker 1: and after game two, in before Game three, we'll be 709 00:34:14,438 --> 00:34:18,038 Speaker 1: back with you with another edition of our Book of 710 00:34:18,118 --> 00:34:20,518 Speaker 1: Joe podcasts. I hope you love the stuff here. I 711 00:34:20,558 --> 00:34:23,718 Speaker 1: think people should be enjoying. It's really an illuminating look 712 00:34:23,758 --> 00:34:26,438 Speaker 1: inside the dugout that you're not going to get anywhere else. 713 00:34:26,878 --> 00:34:30,038 Speaker 1: And whatever you hear here on the podcast, folks, just 714 00:34:30,078 --> 00:34:33,078 Speaker 1: be rest assured that there is so much more in 715 00:34:33,118 --> 00:34:36,318 Speaker 1: the Book. The Book of Joe with Tom Berducci and 716 00:34:36,398 --> 00:34:38,798 Speaker 1: Joe Madden Joe looking forward to the next time, Well 717 00:34:38,918 --> 00:34:40,958 Speaker 1: then we're better looking forward to seeing your tide to night. 718 00:34:41,158 --> 00:34:49,878 Speaker 1: Thanks baby for The Book of Joe podcast is a 719 00:34:49,918 --> 00:34:52,878 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my 720 00:34:52,958 --> 00:34:56,638 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 721 00:34:56,758 --> 00:34:58,558 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.