Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on.
Speaker 4: These are our stories, done done.
Speaker 1: Hi, everybody, Welcome to That's Messed Up and SVU Podcast.
Speaker 3: I'm Kara Klink and I'm Liza Traeger and you get
Speaker 3: the drill.
Speaker 1: This is our podcast where we talk about an episode
Speaker 1: of SVU, the true crime it's based on, and then
Speaker 1: we interview an actor from the show.
Speaker 3: Lisa, what's going on, how are you? I'm pretty good.
Speaker 2: I feel like my hair is the longest that's been
Speaker 2: in a while. I'm almost covering my tits with it,
Speaker 2: which has been my goal for probably a decade.
Speaker 3: Wow. Yeah, very splash. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I want to take a sexual photo shoot one day
Speaker 2: with my hair covering my boobs.
Speaker 3: Nice.
Speaker 1: Thank you everybody for listening and rating and reviewing us
Speaker 1: and everything. And we got a lot of great feedback
Speaker 1: about porn Star's Requiem. We also got an amazing tip
Speaker 1: from somebody that we know on the inside at the
Speaker 1: SVU production. Okay, so the guy who's doing the voice
Speaker 1: coaching Evy through this audition quote unquote is actually the
Speaker 1: SVU casting director, Jonathan Strauss. He does casting for a
Speaker 1: lot of other Dick Wolf shows, but he is the
Speaker 1: main casting director for Sview and I think always has been.
Speaker 1: I recognize his name from the credits, and who better
Speaker 1: to do the voice of a casting director, even for
Speaker 1: a possibly shady website.
Speaker 3: Than the casting director in real life.
Speaker 2: I wonder if this is the casting director that I
Speaker 2: bombed in front of. I wonder if he remembers my
Speaker 2: terrible audition or not. Jonathan Jonathan Wright in people are
Speaker 2: sending us a lot of info about organized crime as well.
Speaker 2: People are like, we need to run through like what
Speaker 2: we know so far? We don't we know what you know?
Speaker 1: Really like, we don't have any insight in FO on
Speaker 1: what's going on with organized crime.
Speaker 3: They just added Dylan McDermott to the cast.
Speaker 1: They've got obviously Christopher Maloney Rishka is probably going to
Speaker 1: pop in.
Speaker 3: Well and the like.
Speaker 2: It seems like SVU fans or Law and Order fans
Speaker 2: are like detectives in their own rights. So they're through
Speaker 2: their detective work. They're kind of spoiling the what might
Speaker 2: happen or not. They're like they were shooting here. That
Speaker 2: means this. We saw the trailers, the trailer didn't have
Speaker 2: this person, so this person must be dead.
Speaker 3: It's like, you guys are wild.
Speaker 2: You should be like fortune tellers helping the police departments
Speaker 2: because they're just on top of it. But I don't
Speaker 2: want to know these things, but I think they're right.
Speaker 2: I also want to say people have written to us
Speaker 2: about Marishka hosting SSNAL. It is a dream of hers,
Speaker 2: and I think we all need to band together and
Speaker 2: make this happen. Also with the internet news there, I
Speaker 2: had a big event happened this week.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, we can't not talk about this. Oh
Speaker 3: my god.
Speaker 1: If you follow us on Instagram or Twitter, you kind
Speaker 1: of know what happened.
Speaker 2: And I was quote retweeted by iced Tea and I awoke.
Speaker 2: And what was fun is I had texts and tweets
Speaker 2: from other people going, can't wait for you to wake up,
Speaker 2: can't wait till you're awake. Everyone knows I like to
Speaker 2: sleep in, and so I was like, what's going on?
Speaker 2: And then I went on Twitter immediately and iced Tea responded,
Speaker 2: what's in the bowl?
Speaker 3: Bart? That's a Simpsons thing?
Speaker 2: Sorry, but you know, my favorite gift that I used
Speaker 2: so much is iced tea dancing with a bowl?
Speaker 3: And I knew he was Cereal. I wanted to know
Speaker 3: his favorite cereal.
Speaker 2: He did within the thread admit frosted flakes are his favorite.
Speaker 3: Oh he did. I didn't even know.
Speaker 1: He responded, Oh my gosh, that Scarese's in the thread
Speaker 1: responding it's it's a who's who.
Speaker 2: Yeah Carriese's like, I know what's in the bowl. And
Speaker 2: I'm like, is this a weed joke? What is going
Speaker 2: on here? I want to smoke weed with all of you.
Speaker 2: But lots of people were writing, and then international people
Speaker 2: were shitting on Cereal and like America, Cereal suck. It's
Speaker 2: just sugar, and he's like, damn, even Cereal has haters
Speaker 2: and so like it was just I mean, I probably
Speaker 2: spent fifteen hours on my phone.
Speaker 3: I couldn't stop.
Speaker 2: And then a lot of people on my Instagram, I
Speaker 2: wrote like this is a big day, and they're like,
Speaker 2: this is a big day for us, for all of.
Speaker 3: Us, for all of us. It was very, very thrilling.
Speaker 1: The Internet gives us so many gifts, Yeah, and it
Speaker 1: just brings us.
Speaker 2: Like closer and closer to meet them. I feel or
Speaker 2: I'm just delusional. I mean, it's like when you have
Speaker 2: a crush and you're like, oh, they liked this thing,
Speaker 2: or they watch the story and it's like it truly
Speaker 2: means nothing, but it inflates you. And your phone is listening,
Speaker 2: so they know who you're talking about, and then they'll
Speaker 2: just show you. I mean, I just have a problem
Speaker 2: with phone addiction.
Speaker 1: We also the internet can also bring you some more
Speaker 1: glorious tidings in that we have just launched our official
Speaker 1: That's Messed Up merch, which you can get now on
Speaker 1: the Internet.
Speaker 3: We're so excited.
Speaker 1: We have hoodies, tank tops, mugs, tumblers, and enamel pin
Speaker 1: everything that you would need need to show that you
Speaker 1: love SVU as much as we do. So if you
Speaker 1: guys are interested in any of our merch, please go
Speaker 1: to Exactlyrightmedia dot com and just go to the shop
Speaker 1: button and go to the That's Messed Up Little Shoppy
Speaker 1: shop and go buy yourself something cute. Valentine's Day's coming
Speaker 1: up and a lot of this stuff is hot pink.
Speaker 1: We really wanted hot pink, and then we also wanted
Speaker 1: to use the colors from the show art obviously, but
Speaker 1: it was cool being able to choose and pick and
Speaker 1: make everything and I can't wait. And a reminder that
Speaker 1: all of our show art and the art that is
Speaker 1: on our merch is from Carly Jean Andrews. You should
Speaker 1: have follow her on Instagram. She is a queen and
Speaker 1: so talented.
Speaker 2: Also for our next merch drops, if you guys have
Speaker 2: any suggestions of any quotes or sayings that you enjoy
Speaker 2: from us, maybe let us know so we can think
Speaker 2: about that. Also learn our fucking voices. What's wrong with
Speaker 2: all of you? I don't know what to do. We're
Speaker 2: gonna try to go on Insta live or put out
Speaker 2: videos like we want to know who's who?
Speaker 3: And I can't believe it's so hard. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I guess we're just two juwye gals.
Speaker 1: Maybe I think we have to see each other's names more. Lisa, Oh, okay,
Speaker 1: that's a great idea.
Speaker 3: Kara, done and done. Ye's it? You got it? You
Speaker 3: should get it now and then we're not going to
Speaker 3: ruin anything.
Speaker 2: No spoilers ahead in any way, but we both have
Speaker 2: seen promising young women.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, excellent movie. Go out and watch it, I
Speaker 1: mean stay in and watch it. Is what I mean,
Speaker 1: order it on like Apple or Amazon or wherever it is.
Speaker 3: It is so good.
Speaker 2: It covers the same themes I would say as SVU,
Speaker 2: but it's so sad.
Speaker 1: I went into it knowing nothing about it. I mean nothing,
Speaker 1: So I think you should go into it knowing nothing.
Speaker 1: It's really really good and fun. Oh.
Speaker 2: I watched the trailer like seven times over and over.
Speaker 2: I could not wait for this movie to come out.
Speaker 2: And not only is it's so smart, but visually it's stunning.
Speaker 2: The acting, the casting, the line, I mean, every single
Speaker 2: thing I thought was beyond and I don't want to
Speaker 2: like hype it up and then you're like, what a
Speaker 2: lying bitch. But I was blown away by this movie
Speaker 2: to the point where it stopped and I started it
Speaker 2: over again immediately and watched it twice, which.
Speaker 3: I've only done twice in my life.
Speaker 1: Once for sound of music and the other for sense
Speaker 1: and sensibility in the theaters.
Speaker 3: Wait, those are not good, really. I've watched them both
Speaker 3: back to back because I love them so much. You know,
Speaker 3: we're different people, eaving, But when you're a kid.
Speaker 2: It's different. As a kid, you just watch things over
Speaker 2: and over. It's like your brain can't take new information
Speaker 2: or something. But I watched Big Business so much that
Speaker 2: the tape, the VHS tape ripped, and then I was
Speaker 2: harper wore it out, and then for the holiday season,
Speaker 2: I have a video of me getting the Big Business
Speaker 2: tape and jumping up and down with joy, and it's
Speaker 2: just like how times have changed that one VHS tape
Speaker 2: I was jumping. I couldn't contain my emotions.
Speaker 1: No, Big Business is a classic in both of our lives,
Speaker 1: for sure, Kara.
Speaker 3: Did you know my great uncle wrote the sound of music? No,
Speaker 3: I did it.
Speaker 1: But I'm not surprised. You have a connection to everything
Speaker 1: we've ever talked about.
Speaker 3: Every guest we have, every guest.
Speaker 2: Hannah's like, oh, by the way, my grandfather, Oh my cousin,
Speaker 2: you knew my best friend.
Speaker 3: So let's get started. We've got a great episode for
Speaker 3: you guys, and we can't wait to get going.
Speaker 2: All right, all right, So this episode I already forgot
Speaker 2: what it's called Lost Traveler. I remember it was a trick.
Speaker 2: It was a trick called Lost Traveler.
Speaker 3: In season thirteen, episode nine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we have a lot of amazing guest stars
Speaker 2: in this one. It is a we have a bad
Speaker 2: This is a nice classic, but in the future, you know,
Speaker 2: we don't have Stabler, all right, So we open up
Speaker 2: on this mom and little kid, and she does say
Speaker 2: that Jews and Gentiles don't care about their children, so
Speaker 2: we know there's some problems happening, and say that what.
Speaker 3: They are they're romany.
Speaker 2: They're Romany, and then the whole episode everyone does keep
Speaker 2: calling them gypsies, and everyone hates gypsies.
Speaker 3: We're not going to continue using that word, but we
Speaker 3: need you to know.
Speaker 2: There is a full on ethnic and race war happening
Speaker 2: in Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: They're definitely considered very other because they're Romany, and like,
Speaker 1: it's funny that she's lumping Jews in with the Gentiles.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because they don't. No one likes the Jews eye
Speaker 3: that were like our own thing.
Speaker 2: So maybe the Jews because they need someone to hate,
Speaker 2: they hate throw them.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Well, we'll get into it with the real crime. I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. But I never was raised to not like gypsies.
Speaker 3: No a yeah, but when we grew up that's what
Speaker 3: they were called, and we I never I didn't know.
Speaker 2: And it's weird about how we're not supposed to say
Speaker 2: it is I on TLC that.
Speaker 1: They have a show they watched my on call My
Speaker 1: Big Fat Gypsy Wedding, like they still play.
Speaker 2: It, And I really don't like the traditional gender roles
Speaker 2: in that community. There's a lot of because they make
Speaker 2: the girls be sluts at dances, but then they can't fuck.
Speaker 2: But then they're supposed to have children. It's like a
Speaker 2: really twist day. But their dresses are really big. And
Speaker 2: then they had a spin off of the dressmaker, the
Speaker 2: dressmaker from the weddings whatever, So we're gonna have some
Speaker 2: problems here.
Speaker 3: So the mom we learned that the boy who is
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 2: Too young but fourth grade and he's gonna go to
Speaker 2: school for the first time all alone, which I grew
Speaker 2: up in the suburbs, doesn't seem like a big deal.
Speaker 2: He has to take the G train from Jin to
Speaker 2: the J which I've maybe taken the J train twice
Speaker 2: for six years I lived, and then go to the
Speaker 2: Lower East Side to school and come on back. But
Speaker 2: they practiced for a whole week. The mom is nervous,
Speaker 2: but they have a plan. He has a cell phone
Speaker 2: and he has a rabbit's foot for good luck. And
Speaker 2: then we see a man in a brown leather jacket
Speaker 2: following him. So we're like, oh no, oh no, oh
Speaker 2: no oh no, it's his father just testing you out twists,
Speaker 2: and it's a cute dad. So it does like help
Speaker 2: us relax a little bit. And he has little mittens.
Speaker 2: He's just like super super cute. He does make it
Speaker 2: to school. The teacher again overly involved.
Speaker 3: Hey you knows everyone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like a cool dork. And then we're at
Speaker 2: school and people are mean to him and the Roman. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but doesn't your mom tell fortunes? Yeah, which if I
Speaker 2: had a friend with a four, Like, if I knew
Speaker 2: someone's mom was a fortune seller, I'd be like amazing,
Speaker 2: let me come, we get in there.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: My family is very secretive, so we don't discuss things openly.
Speaker 3: But I learned recently that my.
Speaker 2: Grandmother in Russia was a fortune teller type woman and
Speaker 2: people she never accepted money, but people would bring food
Speaker 2: because it was the Soviet Union, and she never said no,
Speaker 2: and she was like very mystical. And I do feel
Speaker 2: connected to her because I never met her. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: I like, no, that's cool.
Speaker 3: So whatever. We have two teen bitches.
Speaker 2: We have a couple guys and one of the teen
Speaker 2: bitches is Lily Reinhart.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the most famous tea.
Speaker 1: Yeah she's yeah, she's probably in her twenties, but she's
Speaker 1: like a famous teen like in the teen genre of television.
Speaker 2: So, you know, we see him get bullied. School is over,
Speaker 2: we see him walk dunt dunt done. There's yellow caution
Speaker 2: tape on the train on what is it train entrance? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: where he wanted to go in. So now he's confused.
Speaker 2: He does get his cell phone out.
Speaker 1: Then we just see we see him and then we
Speaker 1: see cars pass and then he's not there anymore. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's so scary. But also in the background you
Speaker 1: see the bar of the Triple Crown where I used
Speaker 1: to actually do improv in the basement. So I don't
Speaker 1: know what is more tragic in the scene, the child
Speaker 1: going missing or me having to relive that. But yeah,
Speaker 1: so that actually where they shot that is in Midtown
Speaker 1: near Penn Station, but it was supposed to be Lower
Speaker 1: Norman High.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: They play games like this all the time, Sex and
Speaker 3: the City game.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, then we have a bad boycott all right. You
Speaker 3: know he's just like, what are these gypsies? You know,
Speaker 3: like he doesn't care.
Speaker 1: He's like, fuck this kid, fuck this hood.
Speaker 2: Like it's like, why are you an officer of the law.
Speaker 2: I just don't understand what's happening. Actually I do exactly.
Speaker 2: But what's amazing about this guy is I used to
Speaker 2: watch the show OZ, that was an HBO prison show,
Speaker 2: and I did watch it as a child, and my
Speaker 2: parents should have been they should have been. I actually
Speaker 2: have a funny story. I worked with a guy who
Speaker 2: was a regular on OZ. You're in a different show,
Speaker 2: and he told me a tidbit that if you came
Speaker 2: to set late, they would write in a rape scene
Speaker 2: to punish you.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: So everyone is showing up on time now. Me and
Speaker 2: my friend Matteo l A and he's a comedian. We're
Speaker 2: in Cleveland, Ohio or Cincinnati, whatever, somewhere in Ohio doing
Speaker 2: morning press for our tour, and on morning news in Ohio.
Speaker 2: I decide to say that story, oh, because I.
Speaker 3: Think it's a funny tidbit.
Speaker 2: The like the hosts of the morning show, they turn red,
Speaker 2: their jaws dropped, like everyone on set is so mad
Speaker 2: because I just said rape on morning television as a
Speaker 2: funny story. And so the whole production is silent and
Speaker 2: they don't know what to do and they have to
Speaker 2: get out of it, and then Mateo can't handle it.
Speaker 3: So Mateo just is laughing, laughing. I'm like, I thought
Speaker 3: this was funny, and they're like, it's a morning news,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But anyway, OZ is one of my favorite shows.
Speaker 2: And I see the guy who's playing the cop. This
Speaker 2: is where you do better than me, Kara. You write
Speaker 2: the actors names down. I just have nothing. But he
Speaker 2: is the blonde guy. And he played Dean Winters, who's
Speaker 2: obviously an SVU favorite. Yeah, he's Mayhem. If you don't know,
Speaker 2: he was Tina Fey's boyfriend in thirty Rock.
Speaker 3: I'm a big I'm a huge Dean Winters.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I go, oh, this actor was Dean Winter's
Speaker 2: brother in there are like Irish the O'Malley's or O'Reilly's
Speaker 2: or something in OZ and you look it up.
Speaker 3: They're brothers in real life. Ye, Scott William Winters. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: All these years I've been watching Austin's Junior High and
Speaker 2: I didn't know they were related.
Speaker 3: So he's this guy named Doom that they call.
Speaker 1: His name is Robert Doom, Dumas and he's I guess
Speaker 1: been in a few episodes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he goes these people, the kid isn't missing, This
Speaker 2: is a cop, This is just a.
Speaker 1: Cor There's also, by the way, a mob outside, like
Speaker 1: the kid's been missing for a few hours, is already pressed.
Speaker 1: There's a mob, And I'm like, I know that they
Speaker 1: do consider themselves like a more of a disenfranchised group
Speaker 1: the romani But like that is that's white kid missing reaction.
Speaker 3: I think, like I.
Speaker 1: Think people are always like why aren't they showing up
Speaker 1: when black and brown kids go missing? You know, and
Speaker 1: they are in this episode, like there's a full press
Speaker 1: court like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think the press is like who cares?
Speaker 2: Like no, But that's like the vibe we get, yeah.
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, that they're not taking as as and
Speaker 3: we have Amorrow and Benson at the moment.
Speaker 2: If you're wondering who our detectives are, you know, they
Speaker 2: explain to the cops like we practiced.
Speaker 3: All week, we saved our money. We took him to
Speaker 3: this far school.
Speaker 2: The teacher saw him, you know, and they're talking about
Speaker 2: how this kid has caught in between two worlds. That's
Speaker 2: like what the teacher slash principal is like a door
Speaker 2: key guy. So there's no witnesses, no leads, and so
Speaker 2: they start checking in with the sexual registry in the
Speaker 2: neighborhood to see if any pedophiles were involved.
Speaker 1: But they also mention that there's this man in the
Speaker 1: neighborhood named the Rombaro who they have they've stopped paying
Speaker 1: tides to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the king of the Romani and basically
Speaker 2: he you know, well, this is another insulting thing. They're like,
Speaker 2: you know where these people live, and they named a
Speaker 2: bunch of countries. They are like one of the Stands
Speaker 2: or Estonia or Lithuania or whatever. So the Rombani in
Speaker 2: New York is like the Umborrow Roar. The Rombarro is
Speaker 2: like the connector of the Romani community in America to
Speaker 2: their community in Europe. And you have to pay tithes
Speaker 2: like this is fucking robin hood.
Speaker 3: Well, it's also kind of like what the mafia would do.
Speaker 1: The mob would like make you pay like a monthly
Speaker 1: advance to like make sure your store doesn't get robbed
Speaker 1: or make sure you're you know, oh I didn't know that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's like what the whole movie The Kitchen, which is
Speaker 1: a terrible movie is about, well, what a great cast.
Speaker 3: I was so sad it's a bad movie.
Speaker 2: We got Tiffany Haddish, Elizabeth Moss and miss Elissa McCarthy
Speaker 2: and I just yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Went in and out. But yeah, like that's that's like
Speaker 3: a mob thing.
Speaker 1: So it's like they stopped paying their tied so they
Speaker 1: could send Nico to this school in Manhattan. And the
Speaker 1: mom is like furious at the dad being like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone is scared of this guy, but you decide
Speaker 2: not to fucking payor tithe right.
Speaker 3: And guess who plays the Rombarro say.
Speaker 1: His name Hector Salamanca baby from Breaking Bad. He's the
Speaker 1: old man with the little bell in the desert. So
Speaker 1: that was thrilling.
Speaker 3: I love him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he makes me scared even to see it, Like
Speaker 1: I mean he's like he's got a really like a
Speaker 1: presence of him.
Speaker 2: I mean, you're dead on with that, because even like
Speaker 2: with a little bell in a wheelchair, he.
Speaker 1: Was scared, like he's going to do something bad. He's
Speaker 1: still scared me, even when he was like paralyzed.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he is an amazing actress. So he's like I
Speaker 2: wrote the bell guy from Breaking Bad. So that's what
Speaker 2: I'll be calling him.
Speaker 1: So he nominated, and he nominated for that role. Really, wow,
Speaker 1: I wish you won.
Speaker 2: So anyways, he says that the family doesn't associate with
Speaker 2: us anymore. They don't get our If they don't want
Speaker 2: our protection, they don't get our fucking protection. So you know,
Speaker 2: we're but he says that he would never hurt a child,
Speaker 2: and a part of me believes him. I don't know
Speaker 2: if that's stupid. So the gray Is are outcast, so
Speaker 2: that sucks for them. This family, they're outcasts in america
Speaker 2: secular culture, and then they're also outcasts in the Romani community.
Speaker 2: So they're just like full on. But so the dad
Speaker 2: now runs outside and he goes he's alive. He's alive,
Speaker 2: and we're like, what's going on. So basically they keep
Speaker 2: calling Nico's cell phone and the messages were full, and
Speaker 2: now the messages aren't full. So we're like, they're like,
Speaker 2: our son is listening to these messages.
Speaker 3: He is alive and deleting them. Yeah, and then we
Speaker 3: get the surprise of a lifetime.
Speaker 2: Gilbert Godfrey couldn't believe it, and his voice less annoying
Speaker 2: than normal.
Speaker 1: Right, he really worked on down a little bit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's not an Iago level.
Speaker 3: And he's not bringing us full of Yago. But yeah,
Speaker 3: he's an IT guy.
Speaker 1: He's on two episodes total of SVU as this character
Speaker 1: who's like an IT guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's a lot of information. We got an
Speaker 2: IP addressing.
Speaker 3: Now we do this, and then we do this.
Speaker 1: And he goes through like a full plan and he's
Speaker 1: doing so much exposition, and I'm like, okay, Gilbert.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just get us to where we need to be.
Speaker 2: Basically where we need to be as a Chinese restaurant,
Speaker 2: I guess the something with the IP address of the
Speaker 2: cell phone is ordering Chinese food. So they go to
Speaker 2: this Chinese restaurant and the worker at the Chinese restaurant
Speaker 2: is an Svu, a lum of a different episode where
Speaker 2: she plays the parent of a killer because yes, who
Speaker 2: like cuts off legs, So well, I think we'll probably
Speaker 2: handle that one one day. But so we have a
Speaker 2: you know, an SVU legend legend.
Speaker 3: We don't know her name or I forgot her name,
Speaker 3: but we'll be talking about early legend.
Speaker 2: So they go to this she said that she did
Speaker 2: hear a kid crying in the background when they order
Speaker 2: the food. Yeah, no, They also complain the food was
Speaker 2: too spicy. The kid was crying the food's too spicy.
Speaker 1: Svews like ears perk up because they're like, this guy
Speaker 1: has a kid, like you know.
Speaker 2: So they don't go and they grab this guy, British
Speaker 2: accent guy. We find out he's a journalist and that
Speaker 2: he's trying to help. He's deleting these messages to help.
Speaker 2: I don't he's hacked in yeah, the messages. Yeah, the
Speaker 2: lawyer of the journalist is the guy from Sex and
Speaker 2: the City that worked at Vogue that made a pass
Speaker 2: that carried for all our dual listeners.
Speaker 3: That's the actor is the lawyer of the journalists.
Speaker 2: And basically, yeah, the journalist is hacking shit, and he
Speaker 2: thought deleting the messages would leave room for people to help.
Speaker 3: Reach the book to get information.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Cabot wants the guy's notes, and you know, journalists
Speaker 2: like their freedom. So the journalist doesn't want to give
Speaker 2: the notes, and Cabots like, give me the notes. And
Speaker 2: so some tall Manda is there, Cabot, the lawyer. They're
Speaker 2: all fighting. The boy is missing, let's help them. So
Speaker 2: we see that the deleted messages were all from the parents.
Speaker 2: The parents do not know where the boy is, so
Speaker 2: they don't know if it's an inside job. They asked
Speaker 2: the FEDS to hear what's an next he hacked into
Speaker 2: other things?
Speaker 3: What is happening?
Speaker 2: So basically what we figure out I don't know with
Speaker 2: what evidence. It's kind of all a blur to me
Speaker 2: with all the tech talk. But they show up at
Speaker 2: this like witchy woman's house and basically they're saying that
Speaker 2: her son, Marco Mark Mark, that he's done something. So
Speaker 2: we discover that she has a son who has special
Speaker 2: needs that she has locked in a basement.
Speaker 1: He's also a large guy, He's a little bit bigger,
Speaker 1: so I think they're worried that, you know, he could
Speaker 1: have maybe hurt someone not knowing what he was doing.
Speaker 3: Also, like, no matter what your kid is, like, when
Speaker 3: do we learn that you just lock a kid in
Speaker 3: a basement. Yeah, it's not in any parenting books I've read.
Speaker 2: But the night before we learned that he was shuffled
Speaker 2: into a handicapped van in the middle of the night
Speaker 2: and taken away.
Speaker 3: So they go to some encampment where.
Speaker 1: A lot of romany people, many people live and they
Speaker 1: see him.
Speaker 2: He starts running. They get him. They in to Gate
Speaker 2: so Rollin's and tomorrow talk to him. The mom told
Speaker 2: him don't talk to cops. She's gonna be pissed that
Speaker 2: he's talking to cops. They're like, Nico, mom is sad,
Speaker 2: you need to help us. He goes, I saw Nico
Speaker 2: on Monday. And he doesn't go anywhere without his mom.
Speaker 2: He can't have people over. So like, what's going on?
Speaker 2: The bell boy man he shows up the rombarro and
Speaker 2: he's also a lawyer.
Speaker 3: He goes, shut your fucking mouth and stop. Okay.
Speaker 2: So then the cops talk to these two popular girls
Speaker 2: from earlier and they're letting us know, like we're scared
Speaker 2: of Mark. Mark's a freak. Mark's dangerous. We see him
Speaker 2: smoking on his roof all the time. Like they also
Speaker 2: say that they saw Mark with the rabbit foot, so
Speaker 2: they saw Nico's rabbit foot with Marco. So then they
Speaker 2: get a warrant to go into Marco's room.
Speaker 1: Mark room, and honestly, they do keep him in the basement,
Speaker 1: but he's in a room with like a TV and
Speaker 1: like a bit.
Speaker 3: It's like a nice room even though he's locked down there.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's not good.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, I don't boo Radley's side think he's
Speaker 1: into a wall. He's like in his room with computer
Speaker 1: and like playing games, and he's.
Speaker 3: Like, this is my room, Get out of here.
Speaker 2: And then they find so they find a garbage doughnut
Speaker 2: bag from near Nico's school in his garbage, and they
Speaker 2: also end up finding the rabbit's foot underneath the mattress
Speaker 2: princess and the peace style just like right in the
Speaker 2: middle of the bed, which you know, I don't know,
Speaker 2: And they also find an MTA card, so they're going
Speaker 2: to obviously investigate where the MTA card was swiped cut to.
Speaker 2: They find Nico in a construction site. He is killed,
Speaker 2: so sad we kind of knew, but we find out
Speaker 2: he was killed the night he went missing.
Speaker 3: He has dozens of cigarette burns.
Speaker 2: He was tortured, and they do think it's a novice torture,
Speaker 2: like not someone that's like experienced and torturing.
Speaker 1: Because burns, Yeah, there's surface level. The birds aren't going deep.
Speaker 2: So it's someone that's like scared to burn but excited
Speaker 2: to burn. So the wound shows like he peede he
Speaker 2: was so scared, and then he was strangled to death
Speaker 2: with a scarf. So you know, the parents are going
Speaker 2: to blame themselves forever. And that's what I kept thinking of,
Speaker 2: Like they're gonna be like, we shouldn't have let him
Speaker 2: go to school alone.
Speaker 3: What were we thinking? And so the mom is saying, no,
Speaker 3: it's not my son, it's not my son.
Speaker 1: When she has to identify the body, it's really a
Speaker 1: sad body identification because she's just like, that's not his face.
Speaker 3: But because he's not alive, yeah, god, oh my god.
Speaker 2: So the parents are mad that they haven't charged Marco,
Speaker 2: and they're also mad that people.
Speaker 3: Keep shut up. They also are mad.
Speaker 2: That keep people keep saying the name Nico because in
Speaker 2: their culture, they believe that his spirit cannot rest if
Speaker 2: we keep call saying his name. So it's like shut
Speaker 2: those So they're so mad at the cops, so they're like,
Speaker 2: stop saying his name, his spirit will not rest. So
Speaker 2: then they leave Nico's house and the two popular girls
Speaker 2: show up again with flowers, and at this point I'm suspicious.
Speaker 3: This is where I get suspicious.
Speaker 2: They come with flowers, they're planting a tree and getting
Speaker 2: a collection together.
Speaker 3: So they start talking about Mark.
Speaker 2: But the what we learn is Mark's DNA is not
Speaker 2: on the cigarette, but and there's no camera evidence, so
Speaker 2: what's going on? Marrow and Rollins are fighting and they
Speaker 2: can't agree on what's happening. And then Nadia Gray just
Speaker 2: tried to set Mark Rajet on fire.
Speaker 3: Nadia is Nico's mother.
Speaker 1: She tries to set Mark on fire because she thinks
Speaker 1: he's the guy that killed her son.
Speaker 3: But this is the cost. Then Dean Winter's brother Doom says,
Speaker 3: God looks after kids and idiots. Lucky for him, he's both.
Speaker 3: It's like, not, okay.
Speaker 2: The thing is, I love that as you puts these
Speaker 2: characters in because these are our experiences with officers. You know,
Speaker 2: they are mean and whatever. I'm not getting into it.
Speaker 2: So I mean, we are getting into it NonStop. So
Speaker 2: what we learn is the mom tried to burn him
Speaker 2: to get it back, like I for an eye type style.
Speaker 2: So they're like, wait, how did the mom know that
Speaker 2: her that there was burning that wasn't released anywhere? That
Speaker 2: was like, who fucking told her that it wasn't in
Speaker 2: the press, It wasn't anywhere. So they're trying to figure
Speaker 2: out who told the mom and then Amorrow fucking figures
Speaker 2: it how and he goes, oh my god, it's the
Speaker 2: fucking popular girls.
Speaker 3: They can tick an Emma.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Emma's one of my favorite names in Courtney
Speaker 2: is an obvious mean girl name.
Speaker 3: We were on a bachelorette party where the number one
Speaker 3: evil girl was a Courtney kicked out of the wedding subsequently, Yeah,
Speaker 3: which is thrilling.
Speaker 2: My first bachelorette party and a bitch gets kicked out
Speaker 2: of a wedding party.
Speaker 3: God's on my side.
Speaker 2: So anyways, Amorro's like, these teen girls have been tipping
Speaker 2: us off. They've been following us, They're everywhere that we are.
Speaker 2: It is these fucking girls. And then they find evidence
Speaker 2: of the girls on camera seeing Nico by the train
Speaker 2: station and they said that they didn't see him. So
Speaker 2: now they know that there are lying. And then they
Speaker 2: asked the bellman to help.
Speaker 1: They asked from Barrow to help, and he's like, we
Speaker 1: don't trust the cops, and the cops are like, trust us.
Speaker 3: So now the Romani and the.
Speaker 2: Cops are going to work together to get these little girls.
Speaker 2: So now they talk to Mark and so Mark now
Speaker 2: gives up the info. Yeah, Romborro convinces Mark, like the
Speaker 2: cops will help you. So what he says is Courtney
Speaker 2: is so pretty, she had a nice dog.
Speaker 3: Emma's nice.
Speaker 2: They made him stop watching football so he knew it
Speaker 2: was Monday night. So that's like pretty nice skills. Courtney
Speaker 2: is an amazing liar. So we find out she gave
Speaker 2: him a hand job. Yeah, and he talks about it weird.
Speaker 2: He goes, she touched me and if he goes.
Speaker 1: Stuff came out it felt funny but nice. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the gist of a hand job.
Speaker 3: Like I don't think it should feel funny.
Speaker 1: Stuff comes out feels nice, but yeah.
Speaker 2: Tomorrow's like, how do you remember that? And he's like,
Speaker 2: I got my first hand job? What do you mean
Speaker 2: a woman made me come? I'll remember that forever. It
Speaker 2: was football, And then you know, Emma starts to so,
Speaker 2: this is my favorite s view thing where they get
Speaker 2: one person to sit out in the squad room and
Speaker 2: then they get the other person in to bring.
Speaker 1: A mess them by the other person, so they play
Speaker 1: them off each other to make it make them paranoid.
Speaker 2: Why the fuck is here? Yeah, so Emma obviously starts crying.
Speaker 2: She says it was Courtney and Courtney's Lily Reinhart. She goes,
Speaker 2: you know, we were just playing around with him, and
Speaker 2: then she wouldn't stop. She lit a cigarette. Emma said no,
Speaker 2: she tried to stop, but it didn't and he was
Speaker 2: crying and he was calling to his mom, and we're
Speaker 2: learning that this is a common thing, and it's so sad.
Speaker 1: It's also like common that one person goes completely off
Speaker 1: while the other person just stands there and is like,
Speaker 1: I don't know how to stop you.
Speaker 3: I don't know what to do.
Speaker 1: I feel like we've seen a few episodes like that
Speaker 1: and read about a few real cases like that.
Speaker 2: I just can't imagine standing there, even as a teen,
Speaker 2: and watching my friend burn a little boy.
Speaker 1: I really can't and then choke him to death. I
Speaker 1: was a follower, you know. I wanted uggs, want I
Speaker 1: had a choker necklace. It's not like I'm some.
Speaker 2: Leader of independence, right, you know. I wanted the same
Speaker 2: things as everyone. I was a Backstreet Boys fan. But
Speaker 2: I really don't think i'd watch my friend burne a child.
Speaker 3: Who knows.
Speaker 2: I just I think my parents raised me a little
Speaker 2: better than watching someone murder someone whatever. So then because
Speaker 2: he was calling for his mom, Corney grabbed his scarf
Speaker 2: and I was yelling no, and then Courtney said whatever,
Speaker 2: He's just another gipsy.
Speaker 3: No one will miss him. So she's racist as well
Speaker 3: as being a slice. So this is a fucking hate crime.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So then they come out they're like, Emma told us everything.
Speaker 2: You're a dumb bitch and Courtney goes, stupid, little bitch,
Speaker 2: it was just a joke. We were just fooling around
Speaker 2: with him, and he started crying and made it look
Speaker 2: like he wasn't he was gonna tell, so I shut
Speaker 2: him up. So she shocked Mark snitch. She goes, oh
Speaker 2: that's weird. Why did he switch? I gave him so
Speaker 2: much fun like.
Speaker 3: She the only funnies ever had. Yeah, so she's evil.
Speaker 2: We could tell, you know, ice in her veins, sociopath forever,
Speaker 2: there is no helping And then the dad goes, we
Speaker 2: should get a lawyer, and she goes, it's a little
Speaker 2: late for that, dad. So she also has a sense
Speaker 2: of humor. Nothing better than a teen killer with a
Speaker 2: with a joke. Yeah, she's funny as hell. You know,
Speaker 2: Courtney is cold. Benson asks why and she says why
Speaker 2: why not?
Speaker 1: Evil teen stare that we watch us View four yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the end of the episode. Ye, so she's definitely
Speaker 1: like a sociopath who would have killed again, I'm sure,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. I mean if you could kill a fourth
Speaker 1: grade boy with for no reason, when you'd kill everyone,
Speaker 1: I mean she's fourteen, it's wild.
Speaker 3: So that's yeah, but crazy episode. And I know nothing
Speaker 3: about the crime, so I can't wait.
Speaker 1: The crime this is based on is horrible, but I'm
Speaker 1: going to walk you through it when we get back.
Speaker 3: Hi, guys, we missed you.
Speaker 1: Let's get into the true crime that Lost Travelers based on.
Speaker 1: So this episode was clearly influenced by the murder of
Speaker 1: Liby Kletzky in Brooklyn, which happened four months before this
Speaker 1: episode aired, so you know, they had the writers just
Speaker 1: like in the room.
Speaker 2: So it was in over the summer, so it was
Speaker 2: like a quick turnaround, not just like oh wow, what
Speaker 2: a coincidence.
Speaker 1: No, okay, yeah, it's like definitely related. This happened in
Speaker 1: this crime happened in July. The episode aired in November,
Speaker 1: so it's like four months difference. And I'm going to
Speaker 1: get into that case in a second, but I first
Speaker 1: just wanted to touch briefly on another case that this
Speaker 1: episode borrowed from so the part about the journalist checking
Speaker 1: Nico's phone and deleting the messages and erasing them is
Speaker 1: ripped from the case of Millie Dowler, who was a
Speaker 1: thirteen year old girl in England. She was murdered in
Speaker 1: two thousand and two by a serial killer named Levi Bellfield,
Speaker 1: who has confessed to He's confessed to killing her, but
Speaker 1: he's also denied it. He's like crazy, He's killed other
Speaker 1: girls as well, and he was already in jail for
Speaker 1: life for other crimes when they convicted him. And in
Speaker 1: twenty eleven, The Guardian reported that Scotland Yard, which is
Speaker 1: you know, the police in London, had discovered that various
Speaker 1: journalists who worked for News of the World and the
Speaker 1: paper's own private investigator, Glenn Mulkare, had hacked into Elly's voicemail,
Speaker 1: listened to messages and deleted them, giving her family and
Speaker 1: authorities the false hope that Millie was still alive, just
Speaker 1: like they did.
Speaker 2: And was it the same He had the same goal
Speaker 2: why he was doing it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was doing it to get information for the
Speaker 1: story because it was a hugely sensational story like they were.
Speaker 1: But this wasn't discovered for years later, like her body
Speaker 1: was found in O two and it wasn't until twenty
Speaker 1: eleven that this actually came out, but they did it
Speaker 1: way earlier and later it was discovered actually that her
Speaker 1: phone automatically deletes messages that have been listened to within
Speaker 1: seventy two.
Speaker 3: Hours, so they weren't actually deleting them.
Speaker 1: But it's still massively like fucked up that they would
Speaker 1: be hacking into a missing girl's cell phone and listening
Speaker 1: to messages. It seems like it's also a complete like
Speaker 1: hindrance of a police investigation as well.
Speaker 2: I also just realized why I know Scotland yard and
Speaker 2: it's from one hundred and one Dalmatians, So that's pretty embarrassing.
Speaker 1: I'm like, Carrie, yeah, I know that the police in London.
Speaker 3: You're like, I know, how else were they gonna find
Speaker 3: those dogs?
Speaker 1: So this actually was part of a major scandal. So
Speaker 1: News of the World is owned by Australian slimeball Rupert Murdoch,
Speaker 1: who also owns a little propaganda network you may have
Speaker 1: heard of called Fox News, and they were like known
Speaker 1: for hacking. They would hack royal celebrities, politicians like all
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 3: That's what sucks. So soopaths win.
Speaker 2: Our society is built for evil, soulless people to win.
Speaker 1: It's like so fucked up. Yeah in every career. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well some people did fall from this, but you're route
Speaker 1: not enough. So when it was discovered that they had
Speaker 1: actually hacked this missing and ultimately murdered schoolgirl's phone, and
Speaker 1: they had also hacked victims of the two thousand and
Speaker 1: five London bombing, I think people were like, Okay, they've
Speaker 1: officially gone too far. So everybody, advertisers boycotted, people were
Speaker 1: freaking out, and the whole paper was shut down.
Speaker 3: News of the World was shut down.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there were a bunch of like high profile
Speaker 1: resignation and I think somebody actually was convicted of something
Speaker 1: like the editor in chief. It's actually a wild story
Speaker 1: if you feel like poking around the internet. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to get too much more into it because it
Speaker 1: doesn't have to do with this s forview, but that's
Speaker 1: where they borrowed that little section from really kind of insane.
Speaker 1: But this episode is obviously more heavily based on the
Speaker 1: murder of an eight year old Hasidic Jewish boy in
Speaker 1: twenty eleven named Lebi Kletzki. I lived in New York
Speaker 1: City when this happened, and it was so terrible, Like
Speaker 1: I just remember hearing that he was missing, and then
Speaker 1: they found him very quickly, and it was just like
Speaker 1: a very very horrific crime. And you just saw the
Speaker 1: photo everywhere of him in New York on the news
Speaker 1: with like his little pais because he's like a little hauscid,
Speaker 1: like so so cute, like innocent little boy.
Speaker 2: And it's you know, they just changed the community a
Speaker 2: little bit. But the Jews are also like an other
Speaker 2: exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: They switched it up, which I think is what's funny
Speaker 1: about her saying the Jews don't care about their children.
Speaker 1: And it's like this is based on the crime happening
Speaker 1: in the Jewish community at the beginning of the episode.
Speaker 1: So the crime took place in Brooklyn, specific in Borough Park,
Speaker 1: which is a huge Jewish population. Some say it's the
Speaker 1: biggest Jewish population outside of Israel. And Libi was walking
Speaker 1: home from a day camp that was at his school.
Speaker 1: He was by himself for the first time. He and
Speaker 1: his mother had practiced just like in the show, and
Speaker 1: they'd practice the route. They had a predetermined meeting spot
Speaker 1: and this was very common in this neighborhood apparently, like
Speaker 1: the crime rate is very low. A lot of the
Speaker 1: families have tons of kids. They kind of just let
Speaker 1: them like go out in the streets together and play,
Speaker 1: and like they have a lot of independence the kids, well.
Speaker 2: Because no one really goes into the neighborhood. And when
Speaker 2: I lived in Williamsburg and we would buy or like walk
Speaker 2: around where it became super religious. Like the kids didn't
Speaker 2: go pet cute dogs like they didn't. They don't really
Speaker 2: interact with other people with other people even on the
Speaker 2: train or anything. So it does create a sense of safety.
Speaker 2: I feel they do have a very insular community where
Speaker 2: they don't interact with me, you know, I'm except when
Speaker 2: it's a Jewish holiday and they're like, are you Jewish?
Speaker 3: I just want to give you a prayer. Always come out.
Speaker 3: It's with the lulav and the men.
Speaker 1: They always are like a Jewish and I always go no,
Speaker 1: even it's just like I'm busy.
Speaker 2: They give away little books and stuff, but they they
Speaker 2: are an insular community, so I can understand the illusion
Speaker 2: of safety.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and also it was a super short walk.
Speaker 1: I actually Google mapped it, like It's was six small
Speaker 1: blocks and one avenue. He basically just had to make
Speaker 1: his way over one avenue and then walk down six
Speaker 1: bucks to meet his mom. Unfortunately, he never took that turn.
Speaker 1: He just kept walking and he walked like five avenues
Speaker 1: out of the way. So he was supposed to go
Speaker 1: on to thirteenth Avenue.
Speaker 5: He ends up.
Speaker 3: You know this happened to me when I was a kid.
Speaker 2: Really yeah, I for some reason, I forgot my basketball
Speaker 2: and so I went back to school. I lived close
Speaker 2: to the elementary school, and I got my basketballt of
Speaker 2: my like cubby or whatever. But then I walked the
Speaker 2: other direction, like I just didn't understand. I know I
Speaker 2: had to walk just straight, but I walked straight the
Speaker 2: other way and I passed like a giant busy street,
Speaker 2: and I was like.
Speaker 3: What has happened before?
Speaker 2: And then when I the fucking crossing guard finally saw
Speaker 2: me crossing guard patch, she like screamed at me. But
Speaker 2: it is interesting, Yeah, like kid brains are dumb.
Speaker 3: We just no.
Speaker 2: So to me, all I thought was straight line, but
Speaker 2: I didn't assess where.
Speaker 1: Because he overshot it by like five avenues. That's like
Speaker 1: a pretty long and I think he was. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of video surveillance of him looking like disoriented, like
Speaker 1: he definitely didn't know where he was. So Libee's mother
Speaker 1: Esther first called the Borough Park Chamrim, which are kind
Speaker 1: of like police, but they're more like community patrols in
Speaker 1: Hasidic neighborhoods. New York Magazine did like a really amazing
Speaker 1: piece where they sort of focused on this guy named
Speaker 1: Yakov German who he might have been the inspiration for
Speaker 1: the Romboro, Like he was definitely like a figure in
Speaker 1: this community, had a lot of real estate holdings, had
Speaker 1: twelve kids, and had like a defiant personality, like he
Speaker 1: had kind of clashed with the Chamrem before, so they
Speaker 1: were doing all this stuff where they were like we
Speaker 1: need I think the Chamram was like we just need
Speaker 1: to sweep the streets or whatever, and he was like, no,
Speaker 1: we need to like retrace his steps, like we need
Speaker 1: to go back to what happened.
Speaker 3: So he ammediately enough people to do both.
Speaker 1: Well, right, But this guy specifically went to the school,
Speaker 1: got the camera footage, then walked on forty fourth Street
Speaker 1: like the whole end, got camera footage from every business
Speaker 1: that he could find.
Speaker 3: So he's actually amazing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so like honestly, he helped sort of streamline how quickly.
Speaker 2: So they did not contact the police yet, like the
Speaker 2: NYPD at this point.
Speaker 1: I think that the search at the beginning is a
Speaker 1: combination of NYPD and the Shamre. So they have been
Speaker 1: contact that he's missing, but I'll tell you when they
Speaker 1: kind of bring the police in.
Speaker 3: More So, everyone assumed.
Speaker 1: That Libey had been taken by like an outsider, And
Speaker 1: it turned out when he missed thirteenth Avenue, he just
Speaker 1: walked all the way to eighteenth Avenue, and that's where
Speaker 1: he met Levi Aaron, who was another member of the
Speaker 1: Hasidic community. This man's thirty five years old, a supply
Speaker 1: store clerk who lived less than two miles from the Klutzkis,
Speaker 1: and he had promised to give the boy a ride
Speaker 1: to a Jewish bookstore where he knew how to get
Speaker 1: home from there. So that's the thing. It's like everybody
Speaker 1: assumed it was this outsider, but he went up to
Speaker 1: a guy that he thought he could trust, Like he
Speaker 1: went up to a guy with like a beard and
Speaker 1: like a yamagun like who looked like he could trust him.
Speaker 2: So he didn't recognize the religious man. He just said, Oh,
Speaker 2: that's one of mine, that's one of my p just said,
Speaker 2: that's one of my people.
Speaker 3: That's who like.
Speaker 1: That's why his parents have taught him. And I think
Speaker 1: that's what people like. Ask another Jew. So there's video
Speaker 1: of them chatting, and then there's video of Libby waiting
Speaker 1: for him for seven minutes while he goes into a
Speaker 1: dentist's office and then they get into his Honda Accord
Speaker 1: or his handa.
Speaker 3: I don't actually know if it was a Cord. I'm editorializing.
Speaker 1: They got into his like old ass car, and then
Speaker 1: he drives him to a wedding in Monsey, New York,
Speaker 1: which is like a little hamlet, like an hour and
Speaker 1: ten minutes up the Palisades Parkway. That's like a Jewish community.
Speaker 1: Don't know why nobody at the wedding sees Liby, so
Speaker 1: he probably left him in the car. But there is
Speaker 1: a video surveillance of him at a gas station, and
Speaker 1: the guy at the gas station said he didn't seem
Speaker 1: like he was struggling, he didn't seem upset. He just
Speaker 1: went into the bathroom with the kid. They went and
Speaker 1: they peed, they came out. They were in there for
Speaker 1: like a minute. So the gas station tenant said Libby
Speaker 1: didn't look scared and he seemed totally fine. They were
Speaker 1: to Aaron's apartment in Brooklyn that night, and he had
Speaker 1: planned to return him like he really wasn't out for blood.
Speaker 3: Why did he take him to months before taking him home.
Speaker 1: It's all completely unexplained because so right now everyone is
Speaker 1: running around looking for this boy, and he ris well.
Speaker 1: So he goes home to Brooklyn the next day, he
Speaker 1: ties Liby up and leaves him in his apartment all
Speaker 1: day while he goes to his shift at work. And
Speaker 1: when he's at his shift, that when he goes to work,
Speaker 1: is when he notices the hysteria about everybody looking for him,
Speaker 1: like posters everywhere of his face.
Speaker 3: Listen.
Speaker 2: I understand that he didn't realize the hooplah until maybe
Speaker 2: the next morning, but.
Speaker 3: Tying a kid in your room is not.
Speaker 2: He took him to a wedding, no one cares, He
Speaker 2: brought him home and tied I just seem like horrified.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's it's terrible, like and he like thousands
Speaker 1: of thousands people are looking for this little boy. And
Speaker 1: so what's crazy too, is in this article I was
Speaker 1: reading Yakoff, German. This guy I was telling you about
Speaker 1: who did all the surveillance. He called a friend who
Speaker 1: he had been in touch with who was a famous
Speaker 1: psychic rabbi, and that rabbi had come to the conclusion
Speaker 1: after consulting some sacred texts, that the boy would be
Speaker 1: found in Kensington, the area of Brooklyn called Kensington, which
Speaker 1: is where the guy who took him lived, which is
Speaker 1: kind of crazy. I just wanted to it for you,
Speaker 1: the mystic. I wanted to bring out the spiritual psychic rabbi.
Speaker 1: So when he got home from work, he was completely
Speaker 1: panicking that everyone was looking for Liby. So he gave
Speaker 1: him a tune of sandwich that had a lethal cocktail
Speaker 1: of drugs like antipsychotic, muscle relaxer and pain killers, and
Speaker 1: it's probably whatever he had on hand. And then he
Speaker 1: smothered him and then he dismembered his body. There was
Speaker 1: no sign of sexual assault, so I'm not going to
Speaker 1: get into all that, but he was trying to get
Speaker 1: rid of the body by dismembering it. Now, I have
Speaker 1: to say, the cops moved pretty quickly on this, Like
Speaker 1: this kid went missing Monday night. They were busting down
Speaker 1: Aaron's door at one thirty in the morning on Wednesday morning.
Speaker 1: That's like thirty six hours that they were able to
Speaker 1: track this guy down because of the sky yak off
Speaker 1: drum and being like, I know, who's got a store
Speaker 1: close to this area, and he's got security cameras, let's
Speaker 1: get the footage. And that was when they brought the
Speaker 1: cops into. The cops like were helping them get all
Speaker 1: the footage.
Speaker 2: I just don't care how you go from well just
Speaker 2: casually to I need a kill. It's like you wouldn't
Speaker 2: go to jail for that much. I'm sure the Jews
Speaker 2: would actually be like just.
Speaker 1: Happy to literally I wrote, what's crazy is that he
Speaker 1: had no apparent motive for taking this kid, Like zero motive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not like he is a creepy. Maybe he
Speaker 2: does have crimes in the past that we just don't
Speaker 2: know about. Well, I'll get into it. Seems you're right,
Speaker 2: it seems like a nervous thing. But it's like if
Speaker 2: he just released the boy.
Speaker 3: No exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: So when the police got to his house, Livey's feet
Speaker 1: are in the freezer and then the rest of his
Speaker 1: body was in a suitcase that he had dumped a
Speaker 1: few blocks away, so he obviously got a psych evaluation
Speaker 1: at Bellevue which called Aaron's mood neutral, like his personality
Speaker 1: was practically blank, which I think is kind of creepy.
Speaker 1: He claims to have suffered a head injury as a child,
Speaker 1: and like every article that I read, everything I read
Speaker 1: was like his friends would always be like yeah, and
Speaker 1: then he would show us the scar from his head injury.
Speaker 1: Like he said after he had this injury, that the
Speaker 1: story constantly changed, like sometimes it was that he fell
Speaker 1: off his bike. Sometimes it was that a car knocked
Speaker 1: him off his bike, all these different scenarios, but.
Speaker 3: He always said that he was never the same after
Speaker 3: this accident.
Speaker 1: So he said he was embarrassed about hearing voices in
Speaker 1: his head, but that the voices didn't command him to
Speaker 1: do anything. So they didn't diagnose him with like straight
Speaker 1: up schizophrenia or anything. But he was diagnosed with an
Speaker 1: adjustment disorder. And I'll just read, like per WebMD, what
Speaker 1: an adjustment disorder is defined as a short term condition
Speaker 1: that happens when you have great difficulty managing with or
Speaker 1: adjusting to a particular source of stress, such as a
Speaker 1: major life change, loss or event, and then in twenty
Speaker 1: thirteen this was actually changed from adjustment disorder to stress
Speaker 1: response syndrome, so he was also diagnosed with a personality
Speaker 1: disorder with schizoid features. And the report also noted that
Speaker 1: he spent most of his life alone online and made
Speaker 1: a lot of recordings of himself doing karaoke.
Speaker 3: Do they say what songs?
Speaker 1: Yeah, he liked a lot of pop disco rock like
Speaker 1: stuff that was like popular.
Speaker 3: I think, so this just makes no sense. Oh yeah, Journey.
Speaker 3: I read that he liked Journey. I read in one article.
Speaker 2: It seems like I got the vibe of like, you
Speaker 2: know Courtney's answer of why and she goes why not?
Speaker 3: Like HD you do this?
Speaker 1: He literally said about like why did you pick up
Speaker 1: Liby to begin with? And he was like I thought
Speaker 1: I knew him, But people said that he had no
Speaker 1: ability to distinguish. He could tell you somebody he knew,
Speaker 1: but he couldn't tell you whether they were a friend
Speaker 1: of his or not.
Speaker 3: Like he just didn't.
Speaker 1: This clearly is a person with mental issues like that
Speaker 1: are maybe not as cut and dry explainable as like
Speaker 1: schizophrenia or voices, or like psychotic violent tendencies but if
Speaker 1: he has this adjustment disorder, like a stressful situation was
Speaker 1: at hand, which as you have taken a boy who
Speaker 1: everyone is looking for and he just freaked out and
Speaker 1: was like got got it rid of it.
Speaker 2: Because in theory, okay, the tying up is weird. But
Speaker 2: if he came home and untied him and was like,
Speaker 2: I found the boy. I found him last night. I
Speaker 2: kept him. I didn't know what was up, right, he
Speaker 2: would have gone.
Speaker 3: Away with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the fear of getting it's really upsetting.
Speaker 1: Like also the fear of getting caught followed by like
Speaker 1: a plan that was completely incompetent to get rid of
Speaker 1: the body, do you know what I mean, Like just
Speaker 1: blood everywhere, like like just it's crazy plan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like not that one murder's worse than another.
Speaker 2: It's like they're all pretty upsetting, and especially to the
Speaker 2: family is in person, but it is so much harder
Speaker 2: to listen to like no, I don't know it just happened.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is crazy.
Speaker 2: It's just easier to digest when it's like this is
Speaker 2: a psychopathic killer or someone che did someone was angry,
Speaker 2: they have control, they're abusive.
Speaker 3: Okay, I got it.
Speaker 2: This is so much harder to digest because it just
Speaker 2: I just think it's.
Speaker 1: So sad that he went to the one person on
Speaker 1: the street he thought he could trust, Like he could
Speaker 1: have gone up to a woman wearing like jeans and
Speaker 1: a T shirt, but he's like, she's not part of
Speaker 1: my world, and he went up to the guy that's
Speaker 1: part of his world, and he was the.
Speaker 3: One that so like. So he obviously has a team
Speaker 3: of lawyers.
Speaker 1: One of his lawyers quits because he's like, this crime
Speaker 1: is too heinous, like I can't. His other two lawyers
Speaker 1: were very green, like one of them had only had
Speaker 1: one homicide case and the other had only had six,
Speaker 1: and the judge had to scold them for openly talking
Speaker 1: about the trial on Facebook and for talking to the
Speaker 1: press too much. So like he had a bad late
Speaker 1: legal team. But then they brought in another lawyer, this
Speaker 1: guy Howard Greenberg, who was doing it pro bono and
Speaker 1: was much more experienced. But then he got in hot
Speaker 1: water when he said, look, everybody knows when blood relations
Speaker 1: have offspring, there can be genetic defects. There's inbreeding in
Speaker 1: that community of the Saciitic community, which I'm like, is
Speaker 1: there I didn't know that. I didn't think that was
Speaker 1: a thing like marrying your cousin or whatever.
Speaker 2: But yeah, but I like in places like months here
Speaker 2: or whatever, if it's a small community, yeah, you're ben
Speaker 2: a fuck a cousin.
Speaker 1: Like I think that's just what happens. Well, he got
Speaker 1: in trouble for that, but you're not going to So
Speaker 1: they were going for an instant defense.
Speaker 2: But I just don't think it's specific to that community.
Speaker 2: I just think if you're in a small ass area,
Speaker 2: you're more likely to fuck a cousin. I think that's
Speaker 2: where the you know, Southern people. Yeah, that stereotypes come from.
Speaker 2: It's just like, if you're in a town of three
Speaker 2: hundred and you're not going to travel or go anywhere,
Speaker 2: you might fuck a family member.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, true, you're not wrong.
Speaker 1: So they were going to go for an insanity defense,
Speaker 1: but Aaron ended up pleading guilty for a sentence of
Speaker 1: forty years to life, which the Kletzky family was fine
Speaker 1: with because they wanted to avoid a trial. They did
Speaker 1: sue him for one hundred million dollars in civil court,
Speaker 1: and Levi Aarin will not be eligible for parole till
Speaker 1: twenty fifty one, and I don't think he'll probably ever
Speaker 1: see freedom. That was just such a highly publicized case.
Speaker 1: I don't think he'll ever be out. His family was
Speaker 1: completely ostracized by the community, and his sister Sarah, who
Speaker 1: was suffering from schizophrenia, actually ended up killing herself, so
Speaker 1: there was mental illness in the family for sure. This
Speaker 1: is a wild twist. Six years later, in June of
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, Aaron's brother, this killer's brother, sav Aaron, who
Speaker 1: also lived in the house where Libby was murdered, was
Speaker 1: found dead, bound with duct tape, wrapped in a blanket
Speaker 1: and stuffed in a basement closet. So this is like wild.
Speaker 1: It happens in the same house, and a spokesperson for
Speaker 1: the medical Examiner's office said the cause of death is
Speaker 1: undetermined and the manner of death is undetermined. An undetermined
Speaker 1: classification means that the medical examiner that has concluded the
Speaker 1: investigation and cannot rule with certainty after taking into account
Speaker 1: all the available information and any test results. So the
Speaker 1: investigation was just dropped, like they can't determine cause of death,
Speaker 1: so he just I googled this. His death was reported
Speaker 1: in some major outlets. The follow up is reported in
Speaker 1: one outlet that I found called the Brooklyn Paper, where
Speaker 1: they were like talking to other lawyers where who are unrelated,
Speaker 1: and some of the lawyers were like, this sounds like
Speaker 1: a cover up.
Speaker 3: The medical examiner always finds a cause of death, like, well,
Speaker 3: it's also this thing.
Speaker 2: It's like he's what you said, tied, gag taped, you know,
Speaker 2: like there's obviously foul play. He didn't he didn't tape
Speaker 2: himself and tie himself up, so to not have any investigation,
Speaker 2: Like you can't just say there's no cause.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's clearly an outside cause, right some states under
Speaker 1: the tongue, well, some say it's possible he was tortured,
Speaker 1: and like I guess some have compared it to the
Speaker 1: case of Auto Warmbeiner whatever his name is, when he
Speaker 1: went to North Korea and they kept him, remember the guy,
Speaker 1: and then he died.
Speaker 3: They were sending him back to the US and he died.
Speaker 1: They were never able to determine his cause of death
Speaker 1: because he had been tortured for so long that it
Speaker 1: was just like various parts of his brain were just
Speaker 1: like decomposed, like so I don't know, they were like
Speaker 1: if this guy was tortured, he could have had a
Speaker 1: heart attack, but like a heart attack you can tell
Speaker 1: in a medical exam. Well, also, nobody's covering this because.
Speaker 2: That's the problem with the medical examiner. And this is
Speaker 2: I learned this from doctor Michael Badden and some of
Speaker 2: his investigations because people to him to be like fuck,
Speaker 2: so what happens is like I remember one case where
Speaker 2: a sister of a victim was like, his wife did this,
Speaker 2: but because of the death certificate said natural causes, the
Speaker 2: police cannot investigate. And so doctor Michael Baden had to
Speaker 2: come in like prove that there was foul play so
Speaker 2: then the investigation could be open and prove that it
Speaker 2: was his wife. And it was and she's like a
Speaker 2: murderer for money. Yeah, and so this might when there's
Speaker 2: like foul play or the cover up. It's like if
Speaker 2: the medical examiner said the death is fine, there's no
Speaker 2: foul play, then they cannot invest it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what's crazy.
Speaker 1: So it's like because they couldn't determine this cause of death,
Speaker 1: there just was no investigation, Like did they think this
Speaker 1: guy bound himself up and put himself in a clause?
Speaker 3: So I guess they can't prove he didn't, so are
Speaker 3: their theories.
Speaker 1: Do people think it's like the Hasidic community just getting
Speaker 1: rid of this person. Some people said that they thought
Speaker 1: it might have been, you know, yeah, retribution for what
Speaker 1: his brother did.
Speaker 3: But also people suggest.
Speaker 1: That he could have mental illness, like there were other
Speaker 1: people in the family with mental illness. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you're mentally ill that you bind yourself your legs
Speaker 1: with duct tape and throw yourself in a closet until
Speaker 1: you die.
Speaker 3: I don't really understand, like or if that it happened,
Speaker 3: it would have been starvation or whatever suffocation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it just seems like a giant cover up.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just I think people are like, we're
Speaker 1: just not gonna because.
Speaker 2: This isn't the police of the this is like the
Speaker 2: natural medical examiner.
Speaker 3: Jurisdiction.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it also might be like a New York
Speaker 2: thing where it's like I remember this case, fuck this guy,
Speaker 2: you know, like I could.
Speaker 3: Have I mean, I don't know it it does.
Speaker 1: It's scary like if you had a sibling who killed people,
Speaker 1: would you be like, I guess people have to kill
Speaker 1: me now, Like I get I have to die. Also,
Speaker 1: I would change my last name and get the fucking
Speaker 1: did That's the thing. They all live in the same
Speaker 1: house where it happened, and obviously people like avoided that house,
Speaker 1: and it was like they said, people were like, you know,
Speaker 1: it was like a haunted house in the neighborhood.
Speaker 3: I'm sure the kids would ding dong ditch or whatever.
Speaker 1: It's really crazy, Like I could only find like one
Speaker 1: source on it.
Speaker 3: It's just wild. But anyway, it's just.
Speaker 2: Scary because to think of that a medical examiner or
Speaker 2: someone that is sole purpose is to help the dead
Speaker 2: can so easily just go nah.
Speaker 1: Well, they were saying, this happens sometimes the medical examiner
Speaker 1: can't determine and I was like.
Speaker 3: But in this case, that seems strange.
Speaker 1: I understand if a body has been mummified or a
Speaker 1: body has been burned beyond recognition where you can't like
Speaker 1: you can't find ligature strangulation marks or whatever. I kind
Speaker 1: of understand that stuff. But this seems like it would
Speaker 1: have been a pre purpose. Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 2: It reminds me of did you watch that note like
Speaker 2: the drug scandal police Investigator one? It was a story
Speaker 2: both happened in Massachusetts, but these two drug examiners for
Speaker 2: the state were just like fully falsifying.
Speaker 1: Oh this is on Netflix, Yeah, fully falsify information.
Speaker 3: One was a drug addict and stealing the drugs.
Speaker 2: One was just trying to get promotions and was just
Speaker 2: like trying to get in with the prosecution and the
Speaker 2: cops and be like, I'll get like they purposely requested
Speaker 2: her and be like, you know what we need and
Speaker 2: she'd be like got.
Speaker 3: It wasn't testing shit.
Speaker 2: And so it's amazing that case got blown up and
Speaker 2: we were able to see.
Speaker 3: But it is scary to.
Speaker 2: Think how many corrupt investigators, people with personal vendettas whatever,
Speaker 2: and how they have the power to just say case shut.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is pretty fuck to think about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And just like the New York posts, like the
Speaker 1: New York Times, all these outlets were covering the murder
Speaker 1: of Lebi Klitsky, and you just would have assumed that
Speaker 1: they would also be as interested in his murderer's brother
Speaker 1: possibly being murdered.
Speaker 2: And this also does not bode well for Jewish stereotypes
Speaker 2: of Jews controlling everything, because yeah, if the Jews wanted
Speaker 2: him dead and now all all the papers and everyone's
Speaker 2: like we're not talking about it.
Speaker 3: It's like, uh oh, this doesn't look good for stereotypes.
Speaker 1: The Illuminati covered up this murder. Yeah, all right, guys,
Speaker 1: we've got another one of our Trademark interviews, So let's
Speaker 1: get ready for our guest. We're so excited we got
Speaker 1: a chance to talk to this actor.
Speaker 3: He is so great. I mean, he is prolific.
Speaker 1: He has starred in Goodwill Hunting in a role that
Speaker 1: is unforgettable.
Speaker 3: He was in the groundbreaking.
Speaker 1: HBO series Oz and is currently a recurring character on
Speaker 1: Narcos on Netflix. So guys, you're gonna love him. Please
Speaker 1: stay tuned for our interview with Scott William Winters and
Speaker 1: The Lost Traveler. He's kind of like a sure, how
Speaker 1: do you describe him? He really did not care for
Speaker 1: the community, No, the romani community.
Speaker 5: When I think of Doom. Yeah, he's a total knucklehead
Speaker 5: with how he sees life. But you can still fall
Speaker 5: in love with knuckleheads. It's mine.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well he made I mean, he was funny.
Speaker 2: That's the thing that's hard is like you kind of
Speaker 2: want to hate him, but then you are laughing at
Speaker 2: some of the things that he is.
Speaker 3: Bringing to the table.
Speaker 2: How often do you get asked what it's like working
Speaker 2: with your brother, because we're going to ask say it,
Speaker 2: but how often did people ask?
Speaker 5: Frequently? But way more so when OZ, I think was
Speaker 5: on the air.
Speaker 3: Right right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we kind of put it together like we were
Speaker 1: watching Lost Traveler and we didn't even really realize immediately
Speaker 1: that you guys were brothers. We just saw you were like,
Speaker 1: oh this do we should have this doom guy on
Speaker 1: our podcast? We were like, they're brothers, Like we didn't
Speaker 1: really realize.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I love working with the Dean And I mean
Speaker 5: we've always been close. Friends were super different, but we've
Speaker 5: always been like really close, you know a lot. A
Speaker 5: lot of times I think people who are different, even
Speaker 5: though the default thought is probably that people who are
Speaker 5: like become friends, but I kind of think, you know,
Speaker 5: kind of a jigsaw type thing. So we've been close.
Speaker 5: And Dean was on OZ first, but he really wanted
Speaker 5: me on the show, and so Tom Fontana just brought
Speaker 5: me on. You know, just extreme kind of character. But
Speaker 5: it was really fun working with Dino on the show
Speaker 5: because you know, we both started acting just a little
Speaker 5: bit later than most. It wasn't like we grew up acting.
Speaker 5: We started in our twenties.
Speaker 1: What did you do before then? What did you think
Speaker 1: you guys were? What were you going to do?
Speaker 5: Dean was modeling and I rescued him from that. When
Speaker 5: I started studying acting, I was working for New York,
Speaker 5: New England Telephone. It was called nine X.
Speaker 3: It's kind of like, yeah, yeah, I remember.
Speaker 5: So I wore a suit. I was like a suit
Speaker 5: for a little while. And so I was working it
Speaker 5: was like a sales kind of systems marketing kind of job.
Speaker 5: And I was just dreadfully, dreadfully bored in my cubicle,
Speaker 5: like freaking out. So I could probably do sales, you know,
Speaker 5: if I wasn't doing acting, I could probably because I'm
Speaker 5: very super relation and all and I love people. But
Speaker 5: the creativity bug really got me. Yeah, So I did
Speaker 5: that before I started acting. Then we both started working
Speaker 5: at bartending and doing various bar gigs in New York
Speaker 5: City while startying acting.
Speaker 3: So this is I mean, we have to focus on
Speaker 3: this sview.
Speaker 2: But for us, such an intense character, such intense scenes,
Speaker 2: what's it like on set when they cut? Were you
Speaker 2: in character all the time? Would you laugh and be
Speaker 2: silly after? How does that work with such intense subject matter.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so many people ask that question.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well because especially for your character, because there's like
Speaker 1: a voice and a different there's just so much physicality
Speaker 1: difference too that Yeah, it's impressive, and it's just so dark.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just so that shows wild.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it just as it aside, it's sad that we
Speaker 5: never i mean, awards are like really at the end
Speaker 5: of the day, it's just tinfoil doesn't mean much. But
Speaker 5: because we only did eight episodes a year, we were
Speaker 5: never up for the Yemmis.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 5: And we had so many good actors on that show,
Speaker 5: I mean, some.
Speaker 3: Of the best crazy and the biz.
Speaker 5: And it was Jack Simmons, Jack Simmons and you know,
Speaker 5: and obviously Chris Maloney and Harold Piano and we all
Speaker 5: felt super grateful to be shooting a show in Manhattan
Speaker 5: with Tom Fontana, who just had such a good reputation
Speaker 5: and it's such a top down kind of phenomenon, you know,
Speaker 5: like it was a happy, happy set. You couldn't be
Speaker 5: a diva on that set, which was great, you know,
Speaker 5: because Fontana had just worked with so many people and
Speaker 5: was partners with Barry Levinson and he started a lot
Speaker 5: of really you know, just very super famous people, and
Speaker 5: so he just didn't really tolerate that kind of odd paradigm.
Speaker 5: So yeah, we were always messing around. And for me personally,
Speaker 5: because I played an intense character, it was really fun
Speaker 5: to just like have an on and off switch for it,
Speaker 5: you know.
Speaker 1: And then, so how was it working on SVU? Did
Speaker 1: you always have a great time there? Was it similar vibes.
Speaker 5: Or like different vibes, good vibes, but just different. That
Speaker 5: might be because of the number of people in the cast.
Speaker 5: I don't know. OZ was like this very populist kind
Speaker 5: of a show. The cast was huge, and there was
Speaker 5: this kind of just level playing field, whether you were
Speaker 5: a guest star or a series reg And I think
Speaker 5: just because of the nature the form of SVU, it
Speaker 5: was first of all, you know, twenty seasons running or whatever,
Speaker 5: so it was just different. But you know, Marishka and
Speaker 5: Chris and just like everybody I work with on that show,
Speaker 5: you know, they're all wonderful people, and sometimes subject matter
Speaker 5: plays a part. And I think that there was just
Speaker 5: something so gangster about OZ because everybody's like walking around
Speaker 5: like dressed as an inmate. But I had a great
Speaker 5: time on STU. I mean, I love the time I
Speaker 5: did a couple of SPUs, I did the.
Speaker 3: We Know Them. If you want us to tell you, yeah.
Speaker 5: Then they should really bring my character back. So you
Speaker 5: want to tell you yes, your entire fan base just
Speaker 5: have yeah, you.
Speaker 3: Know hashtag bring back Doom, Bring back Doom. Yeah you gotta.
Speaker 2: I want you and Rollin's to have a romantic moment.
Speaker 2: Do you feel like that would ever happen for you?
Speaker 5: Guys thought that they might write that in, but she
Speaker 5: she's a little superior to Doom.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 5: I just I thought that they might want it to
Speaker 5: go that way, but they didn't.
Speaker 1: So yeah, because one of the episodes you're in, you're like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go say hi, and then she turns around
Speaker 1: and she's like eight months pregnant.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, what do you get recognized the most from?
Speaker 5: Probably Good Will Hunting.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say you, those those scenes that you're
Speaker 1: in are like the seeds the Seeds for Will Hunting
Speaker 1: that my friends and I like Quol all the time,
Speaker 1: like my boys wicked smart, Like I just can't believe
Speaker 1: you're that You're that guy.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you that you had a pretty
Speaker 1: luxurious ponytail in that movie.
Speaker 3: Was that a wig? Was that your real hair?
Speaker 5: Oh? No, that was my real hair.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 5: I could show you a picture of my hair right
Speaker 5: now from the day on OZ when I got executed,
Speaker 5: because it was down to my waist. Wow, it was
Speaker 5: literally down to my waist. Yeah, I like, I like
Speaker 5: long hair, but I think you can get a haircut now.
Speaker 5: But yeah, that was.
Speaker 1: My real Your character in that scene from Will Hunting
Speaker 1: is like those iconic scenes I know, and.
Speaker 5: I'm so flattered that I got to be in that
Speaker 5: because they used that scene in like acting classes. Oh yeah,
Speaker 5: I've seen it at like sporting events. I'm like, no way,
Speaker 5: you know. Yeah. And then that's just that line, how
Speaker 5: do you like them apples that Matt says to me.
Speaker 5: I mean that's just was like huge. I mean that's
Speaker 5: like a reading card kind of a line.
Speaker 1: Yeah, You've been in so many things. What do you
Speaker 1: do when you are not acting?
Speaker 5: I do prison ministry at like a real prison, oh wow,
Speaker 5: like every week for a few years now. And I
Speaker 5: have such a heart for prisoners. I'm like an artist
Speaker 5: spokesperson for Prison Fellowship. So I'll just go and speak
Speaker 5: at different prisons. But then here in La I go
Speaker 5: to a prison now since COVID, like it's been held up,
Speaker 5: but I've done it for a year ago Wednesday mornings,
Speaker 5: and man, I just love these guys so much. Like
Speaker 5: the stories they rip your heart out. You know, so
Speaker 5: many people just defined by the worst moment in their life,
Speaker 5: you know, just split second, like trying to feed my kids,
Speaker 5: or I had so much fear and then boom they're
Speaker 5: in prison, separated from their wife and five children. Sadly,
Speaker 5: we just live in a culture that really does so
Speaker 5: much stigmatizing. I don't think it's intentional, but there's like
Speaker 5: these stigmas with homeless people, with you know, prisoners. You know,
Speaker 5: we had a foster child that we fostered for about
Speaker 5: a year and a half, and you know, same thing.
Speaker 5: There's like forty thousand foster children in the Ulster care
Speaker 5: system in Los Angeles. So I would just encourage people
Speaker 5: to check out, you know, prison Fellowship. You know, for
Speaker 5: us to do something like that, to do prison ministry.
Speaker 5: My wife has worked with underage girls who are sex
Speaker 5: trafficked extensively, but prison Fellowship is like super buttoned up,
Speaker 5: you know, it's a legit organization.
Speaker 3: Was thrilling.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you guys can't see him, but he
Speaker 1: looks exactly like his brother. He's just Blondean Winters, which
Speaker 1: I don't see in his work.
Speaker 3: Like I never actually saw.
Speaker 1: They looked like in the episode. I did not think
Speaker 1: that's that's stem.
Speaker 3: So we started doing research.
Speaker 1: I had no idea they were truly related, which is
Speaker 1: shocking because we are such a big fan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we had no idea. But the more I could not,
Speaker 2: I couldn't stop. I also A'm just I'm very pleased.
Speaker 2: I'm just like so happy with someone that their passion
Speaker 2: is to help people and they do it and so.
Speaker 3: Humble about it.
Speaker 2: The fact that we talked about Prisoner's crime cops the
Speaker 2: whole time.
Speaker 3: And not until the end. Yeah, did he kind of
Speaker 3: like sort of a hero. I spend a lot of
Speaker 3: time talking to Prisoner.
Speaker 1: It's like amazing, I'll do one soup kitchen, I'll talk
Speaker 1: about it for three weeks, Like I don't understand he's
Speaker 1: been doing this for over a decade and I didn't
Speaker 1: mention this, but I wanted to.
Speaker 3: Higher people that have gone to prison.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know the place where I buy wee or
Speaker 2: when I lived in West Hollywood that dispensary was known
Speaker 2: for hiring felt like ex cons and people would complain
Speaker 2: that the weed was too expensive there, and I'd go,
Speaker 2: I think it's worth it, because you know, it is
Speaker 2: so hard to get jobs and start your life over,
Speaker 2: and especially with shows like Orange Has Been Black, you
Speaker 2: learn how hard it is teep paroled and all the
Speaker 2: fees you you have to pit am and it's just
Speaker 2: your setup to fail and also just to be judged on.
Speaker 2: Like he said, you don't know where people are coming from.
Speaker 2: You don't know what happened to these children. You don't
Speaker 2: know if they were starving. I'm really into that message. Yeah,
Speaker 2: of seeing beyond people's faults, I don't.
Speaker 1: Know, Well, that's a huge well, yeah, seeing somebody beyond
Speaker 1: the split decision they made in the worst moment of
Speaker 1: their life. Like you said, you know, I think that
Speaker 1: that's great. That's definitely what we learned in this episode.
Speaker 1: What else did we learn because.
Speaker 2: You know, I didn't never went to jail for a
Speaker 2: long time or prison, but I did get arrested a
Speaker 2: bunch and it would suck if people only saw me
Speaker 2: as the twenty year old who was like drunk and
Speaker 2: going to jail forever, you know, or kept bringing it back.
Speaker 3: And I'm lucky that my job is just talking.
Speaker 1: What else did we learn about the episode post mortem style?
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's do this post mortem.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just because someone else is an Orthodox Jew and
Speaker 2: you're an Orthodox Jew does not mean they're good.
Speaker 3: Is that weird? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean imagine if I just went up to like
Speaker 1: other white women, yeah, for help, and I don't know,
Speaker 1: I guess it's like everybody in every city can decide
Speaker 1: when to let their kids walk alone. But it's like
Speaker 1: so sad in both of these, in the real story
Speaker 1: and the episode that this is like what happened from
Speaker 1: kids walking along.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Also, if Team Girls show up with flowers all the time,
Speaker 2: they're guilty. Yeah, if they if they're giving you clues, yes,
Speaker 2: if one of them is very gorgeous.
Speaker 1: And then today is one of the biggest stars in
Speaker 1: the world and has like millions and millions of Instagram followers,
Speaker 1: she's up to something, you know. Yeah, Lily Reinhart, you're
Speaker 1: a murdering bitch. Well.
Speaker 2: I also, and you know, when we talk about people's
Speaker 2: biases and racism and all that and how it affects
Speaker 2: everyone's daily lives where it's like, you know, this officer
Speaker 2: didn't care for this culture of people, and so that
Speaker 2: person's police work is going to be worse. They're not
Speaker 2: going to care as much. And it affects people's lives,
Speaker 2: you know. And when you think about racism, when it's
Speaker 2: like if your teacher is racist, and then the person
Speaker 2: at the bank, and then the cop and then this,
Speaker 2: and it's like it's it's just such a bigger issue.
Speaker 2: And so when people say like, oh, get over it,
Speaker 2: or like stop complaining or it can't be anywhere, it's like.
Speaker 3: It's truly destroying people's lives.
Speaker 2: It's destroying people's lives when police officers have biases towards
Speaker 2: specific cultures and don't want to help people, and how
Speaker 2: hard we all have to work, no matter what our
Speaker 2: job is, to work on those biases. So we're not
Speaker 2: pieces of shit. I mean, I don't know how to say. So,
Speaker 2: we're not negatively impacting people's lives on serious and serious ways.
Speaker 3: And they were wrong.
Speaker 1: I mean, in the end, it was like the most
Speaker 1: clean cut, white bread girls that were the criminals you
Speaker 1: know in the episodes.
Speaker 3: So it's like, do your police work.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm not a detective, but I think that's
Speaker 2: one of the things where you can't go in deciding
Speaker 2: you know what the truth is, because then your research
Speaker 2: and investigation is gonna try to lead you one way,
Speaker 2: or you're going to ignore certain facts or evidence because
Speaker 2: you're not being open. So if any police are listening,
Speaker 2: I have some tips from a not I feel like
Speaker 2: Mike Pence with Kamala being like, I'm gonna tell you
Speaker 2: about prosecution when she's like.
Speaker 3: Don't fucking tell me how to do my job.
Speaker 2: I just think it's important for all of this to
Speaker 2: like realize maybe if we were raised.
Speaker 3: To hate an ethnic group, maybe to stop doing that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, don't live off the green line, don't
Speaker 1: take the j Like, if your kid's going to go
Speaker 1: to a school, make sure it's not off the jay train.
Speaker 3: Make sure they don't have to transfer.
Speaker 1: I mean kids, city kids are crazy to me, like
Speaker 1: they are they're so cool.
Speaker 2: I babysat some boy who would go to ballet on
Speaker 2: his own. He was just like living the dream and
Speaker 2: I can't. I can't imagine walking home in the suburbs
Speaker 2: was like, you know, too much for me. These city
Speaker 2: kids just zip zapping around.
Speaker 3: I don't get it. They're mature, but it's dangerous. I
Speaker 3: don't know. I'm not a Are you gonna let Rosie
Speaker 3: go to school on her own? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean her elementary school is walking distance from our house,
Speaker 1: but I still I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's not we don't live so city. I don't know,
Speaker 3: we don't live so urban. But anyone can scoop anyone
Speaker 3: up in a van. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I really have to. I can't blame anyone who's let
Speaker 1: their kid walk.
Speaker 3: I can't. I just have to. You have to do
Speaker 3: what you think is right and what your kid's ready for.
Speaker 3: But I don't know.
Speaker 1: Also, who could have guessed the team girls were gonna
Speaker 1: grab you know what I mean? That's like the last
Speaker 1: you know, you are scared of all these other things.
Speaker 1: But I don't think on their parents' mind, we're like,
Speaker 1: we're scared of the two junior.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: And in the real life story, it's like this poor
Speaker 1: kid did go up to somebody that was his parents
Speaker 1: taught him to go up to someone that's like part
Speaker 1: of your community, and it just was Also, it's better
Speaker 1: to be caught and go to jail for a little
Speaker 1: bit than to kill someone that might have seen you
Speaker 1: and might tell on you.
Speaker 3: And then you go to jail, and then and then
Speaker 3: you go to jail forever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't need to murder a kid because you
Speaker 1: like took them to a wedding upstate.
Speaker 3: Like you'll go to jail for a couple of years
Speaker 3: for kidnapping. Like you get a good lawyer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe the parents won't even press charges because they're
Speaker 2: happy to see their Yeah, do not kill someone just
Speaker 2: because they saw you do a crime.
Speaker 3: That fear is not real. You're gonna get get in trouble. Yeah,
Speaker 3: get in trouble for a minor crime. If you were
Speaker 3: dumb enough to get seen, you're gonna get caught.
Speaker 2: It's just horrific. I think about this all the time.
Speaker 2: I'm like, what if I'm in the wrong place and
Speaker 2: eye witness a crime, They're gonna kill you. Lisa, I
Speaker 2: don't want that.
Speaker 3: I don't either. We have a friend. She might be
Speaker 3: a liar though I don't know.
Speaker 2: She's she's nutty, but she told me that she knew
Speaker 2: someone who's like a cool girl, but who was in
Speaker 2: the Russian mob.
Speaker 3: And she did get shot in the face eventually.
Speaker 1: Wow wow I know this person or just yeah, oh wow,
Speaker 1: can't wait for you to tell me off Mike.
Speaker 3: Who that is? Oh.
Speaker 2: Also, if your kid OF's special needs or different differently abled,
Speaker 2: learns different, don't lock them in the basement.
Speaker 3: Don't boo Radley your children.
Speaker 1: Yeah you know, don't do it or hugo for you
Speaker 1: know the Simpsons reference if that helps anybody, But yeah,
Speaker 1: don't change your kids up in a in a room
Speaker 1: to think that will never make anyone's life better or easier.
Speaker 3: And make sure they know.
Speaker 2: What jizzing is so one girl doesn't make them jizz
Speaker 2: and then they're ready to go to jail forever.
Speaker 3: I don't know how that is.
Speaker 1: Like, make sure if you have an adult kid that
Speaker 1: might be avert, get their dick sucks so they're not
Speaker 1: just like, we'll do anything for this teen murdering seductress.
Speaker 1: These are real lessons in case you happen to start
Speaker 1: into this episode of Law and.
Speaker 2: Order that he knows what jizzing is because he goes
Speaker 2: it felt funny. I liked it, No clue what it is.
Speaker 2: Don't lock your kid in a basement and don't tell
Speaker 2: on how they did for some.
Speaker 1: Anatomy and some basic sexual functions. Yeah and yeah, and
Speaker 1: don't give them a Chris Kirkpatrick haircut.
Speaker 3: Okay, I think I'm on that note.
Speaker 1: We're going to wrap it up and now, as always,
Speaker 1: we're going to do our what would Sister Peg Do
Speaker 1: segment where we give you guys resources or charities or
Speaker 1: organizations that we wanted to highlight that have to do
Speaker 1: with what the episode covered. So today, obviously we covered
Speaker 1: an episode that was based around the Romany community. I
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of misinformation out there and a
Speaker 1: lot of or maybe no information.
Speaker 3: Maybe you didn't.
Speaker 1: Even know really that the Romani community existed, So we
Speaker 1: wanted you to head to our show notes for this
Speaker 1: very informative Daily Beast article that just sort of gives
Speaker 1: you a little bit of the history of the Romany
Speaker 1: and what their struggles are like.
Speaker 2: We also really wanted to highlight Scott's program that he
Speaker 2: volunteers with called Prison Fellowship, and that's Prisonfellowship dot org
Speaker 2: and they work with transforming the lives of prisoners, caring
Speaker 2: for children and families of incarcerated people, and also advocating
Speaker 2: for justice that restores and they do a lot of
Speaker 2: great work and so if you want to volunteer or donate,
Speaker 2: that's Prisonfellowship dot org.
Speaker 1: And next week we will be covering the episode Slaves
Speaker 1: from season one, episode twenty two, going back to the beginning, folks,
Speaker 1: So make sure to tune in via Hulu or peacock
Speaker 1: or wherever you watch your SVU episodes.
Speaker 2: And if you enjoyed the pod, you know, throw us
Speaker 2: some stars baby like it's Mario, and you know, subscribe
Speaker 2: to us and give us attention. And if you didn't
Speaker 2: like the podcast, shut your fucking mouth and we will
Speaker 2: see you next week. That's Messed Up as an exactly
Speaker 2: right production. If you have compliments you'd like to give
Speaker 2: us or episodes you like us to cover, shoot us
Speaker 2: an email at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 1: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 1: personally at Kara Clank and at glitter Cheese. As always,
Speaker 1: please see our show notes for sources and more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer and fellow sv
Speaker 2: super fan, Hannah Kyle Craton.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our heroes Steven Ray Morris and Annalie
Speaker 1: Snelson are Engineers.
Speaker 2: To Henry Kaperski Musical Extraordinaiy for our theme song.
Speaker 1: To our artistic Queen, Carly gen Andrews for all of
Speaker 1: our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start,
Speaker 1: Karen Kilgareff, Danielle Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 2: Listen, subscribe, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher,
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 5: Dug