1 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:09,879 Speaker 1: This is Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre. 2 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 2: What is up straight Fire? Pram HiT's me Jason McIntyre. 3 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 2: Straight Fire for Friday, May the twenty third. It's official. 4 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 2: This is Memorial Day weekend. I don't think we're gonna 5 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,479 Speaker 2: have a podcast Monday. It is a holiday. I know 6 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 2: nobody's really working except oh well, the Herd's on. So yeah, 7 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 2: I think we'll probably skip Monday unless something bananas happens 8 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 2: in Minnesota, OKAC. But based on the looks of things, 9 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 2: we don't have much of a series. We'll get to 10 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 2: that shortly. I'm gonna wedge in a little Kitlin Clark 11 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: Angel Reese thing. Of course, all these you know, one 12 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 2: of this WNBA mob came after me for a comment 13 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 2: I made about the Kaitlin Clark incident from last night 14 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 2: against the Atlanta Dream and then a special guest Seth Wickersham, 15 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 2: who has written a pretty awesome book about quarterbacks and 16 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 2: football and it obviously caused an uproar with Caleb Williams. 17 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 2: This week we will get into that. A lot of 18 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,759 Speaker 2: Arch Manning talk for you Texas Longhorns fans out there, 19 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 2: little Shedur Sanders action. I think you guys are really 20 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 2: gonna like this interview with Seth I've known him for 21 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 2: like fifteen years. Good dude. But before we get to 22 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 2: sas Wickersham, obviously, we must start with the Minnesota Timberwolves 23 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 2: getting smoked again by the OKAC Thunder. Now. I have 24 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 2: been dismissive of Oklahoma City for much of the season. 25 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 2: I thought Dave McManaman the guests yesterday summed them up 26 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 2: brilliantly when he said an NBA player who he wouldn't name, 27 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 2: told him that the Thunder are the best college basketball 28 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 2: team in the NBA. They are relentless. They have a 29 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 2: flotilla of young dudes who don't stop running. All you 30 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 2: saw in the third quarter and the fourth were runouts, 31 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 2: three on two, four on two. OKAC is relentless. Now, 32 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 2: I'm not saying Minutia was tired, but Rudy Gobert does 33 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 2: not run the floor well. Mike Conley is old. Julius 34 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 2: Randall was benched in the fourth quarter for I mean, 35 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:10,959 Speaker 2: he basically had a great first half in Game one 36 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 2: and in the next six quarters did not show up. 37 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 2: He's done nothing. Anthony Edwards was pretty damn good, but 38 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 2: he still cannot make a three one of nine. But 39 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 2: here's the thing. I've got to give OKAC some props. Obviously. 40 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 2: I know some Thunder fans are so sick of me 41 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 2: they won't even listen to the podcast. Yes, I see 42 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 2: your tweets in ig dms and comments on my ig videos, 43 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 2: even on YouTube videos. You guys are starting to come 44 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 2: after me. I listen. I gotta give OKC props. Yes, 45 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: they won sixty eight games. They smoked Minnesota in Game one. 46 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,239 Speaker 2: I said, hey, Minnesota didn't really show up well. Game two, 47 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 2: five point game in the third quarter, you thinking, okay, 48 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 2: all right, they're weathering the storm. Third quarter barrage, folks. 49 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 2: OKAC was up sixty eight, sixty three with five point 50 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 2: fifty three left in the third. Minnesota was hanging tough. 51 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:58,839 Speaker 2: A lot of Anthony Edwards. I thought, Jayden McDaniels look good. 52 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 2: I'm like, we need more jad mcdays in the series 53 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 2: if we're ever gonna make this interesting. So it is 54 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 2: after a Anthony Edwards two, a Jaden McDaniels two, it's 55 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 2: a five point game in the Thunder call a timeout, Okay, 56 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 2: shake guilds Alexander bucket, followed by Shiga just Alexander Shake 57 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,959 Speaker 2: guild Andrew free throw. It was a nan one Alex 58 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 2: Carusho bucket sga Cason Wallace from three, and all of 59 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,399 Speaker 2: a sudden, it's a fifteen point lead. It's like bing 60 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 2: bag boom chet holmgrin with a pretty nasty alley you 61 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 2: and then lou Dort made it three and next thing 62 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 2: you know, it's a seventeen point game. They just kept 63 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 2: coming in swarms. Minnesota had no answers. Folks, this is 64 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 2: gonna be this is troubling. I'm not gonna lie. Okay, see, 65 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 2: is minus two thousand in this series. I'm fairly certain 66 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 2: they were minus three fifty at the beginning of the series. 67 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 2: I think now it's minus two thousand. Okay, zig zag theory. 68 00:03:58,080 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: Glad I didn't bet this game. I would have been 69 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 2: frustrated because, I mean, okay, see now that Minnesota I 70 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 2: think cut it to ten in the fourth. I don't 71 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 2: think they got it into single digits. But we've now 72 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 2: had two games in the fourth quarter where it just 73 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 2: hasn't been interesting. It's not a compelling series. And here's 74 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 2: the toughest part. Minnesota did do a lot of different 75 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,119 Speaker 2: things in this In Game two to keep it close. 76 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 2: I don't think they quite emptied the clip, but there 77 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 2: it looks like Finch is at his wits end. He 78 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 2: took the podium after the game. It was just like 79 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 2: kind of exhausted, Like damn, Anthony Edwards can't shoot straight. 80 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 2: Rudy Gobert seems a little lost or slow. I don't 81 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 2: know what it is. Dante Divigenzo hit a couple threes 82 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 2: in the first half, but he ended up with four 83 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 2: turnovers and three makes and he was minus twenty seven. 84 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 2: Sga was going right at him. I mean, he's a 85 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 2: tough defender. At one point, Sga looked like he was 86 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 2: inviting the post up on Dante and he just took 87 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 2: him to school down low. Naz Reid zero for five 88 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 2: on threes. Nas reed, it just cannot make a three 89 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 2: in the series his life. Now we know the story. 90 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 2: When you go home, role players often deliver because they're 91 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: in friendly confines. You've got the crowd behind them. Obviously, 92 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 2: Game three must win for Minnesota. OKC is a four 93 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 2: and a half point favorite on the roading game. That 94 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 2: stunned me. I was absolutely floored by that. I wanted 95 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 2: to come on here and make a case for Minnesota 96 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:27,359 Speaker 2: to come back. I thought I would see something in 97 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 2: game two. I saw it nothing. SGA with thirty eight 98 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 2: and eight assists, Jalen Williams twenty six and ten, chet 99 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 2: Homegroom with twenty two, still not shooting a great and 100 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 2: SGA is basically saying, I'm not shooting threes. I'm just 101 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 2: gonna attack the rim now and shot fifteen free throws. 102 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 2: So SGA free throw merchant fifteen free throw attempts. The 103 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 2: starters on the Timberwolves attempted sixteen. Now. There was an 104 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 2: incident in was it the I think it was the 105 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 2: fourth quarter. And SGA does this a lot. The announcers 106 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 2: did catch it. SGA. When you're reaching, when you're picking 107 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 2: up full court and in close, SGA hooks your arm 108 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: and pulls you in to invite the contact and get 109 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,919 Speaker 2: the foul. James Harden perfected this move, I don't know 110 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 2: five to six seven when he was going through his 111 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 2: scoring spree. Okay, SGA has perfected that. For some reason, 112 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 2: the rest aren't calling it on him. So he hooks 113 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 2: Jayden McDaniels quickly pulls him in and then McDaniels is 114 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 2: up in him and SGA leans in and gets the 115 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,799 Speaker 2: foul and Jaden mcdaniels's pissed and just shoves him. Obviously 116 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 2: he gets a flagrum for that. But at some point 117 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 2: the refs are gonna or the league is gonna have 118 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 2: to step in and be like, yeah, this is a 119 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 2: bad look the way they did with Harden. You guys, 120 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 2: remember Harden was averaging thirty five a game. There were 121 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 2: people saying that James Harden is as good of a 122 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 2: score as Michael Jordan. You remember this. This was pre COVID. 123 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 2: He was unstoppable, getting to the foul line a million times, 124 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 2: and they had to literally adjust the rules because it 125 00:06:55,760 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 2: was becoming unwatchable. I SGA's obviously a very, very skilled player, 126 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 2: but I'm seeing a lot of the same stuff. Guys, Yes, 127 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 2: he is torching Minnesota. I don't know that they have 128 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 2: an answer. I don't. I mean, you could just double 129 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 2: him hard, double, make him give it up, and say, hey, 130 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 2: if we lose because loud Door hit six threes and 131 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 2: j Jake Dobb goes off, fine, but we're not gonna 132 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 2: let SGA cook us with this hook nonsense and the flailing. 133 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 2: And obviously SGA deserves props. He won MVP. He's twenty six. 134 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 2: A lot of people were upset who were watching the 135 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 2: Herd when I said, I don't think he's a top 136 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 2: five player in the league. I still think Giannis is 137 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 2: obviously better. I think Lucas obviously better. Honestly, Nicole Jokicic 138 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 2: is better. I think you know this season he was great, 139 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 2: But you tell me Steph Curry wasn't great and he's 140 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 2: thirty seven. You tell me Lebron wasn't phenomenal like I 141 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 2: think Jason. If you're asking me Jay, no Giannis, no Luca, 142 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 2: no Jokic. You got the first pick, who you taken? 143 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 2: I would take Tatum over SGA, And I know that's 144 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 2: not gonna be popular, but I think Tatum's an overall 145 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 2: better player. Now what you'll say is, well, wait a minute, 146 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 2: SGA has an MVP, he's got a scoring title. Well, 147 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 2: Tatum doesn't have that. Who cares? Guys, When you're comparing 148 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 2: OKAYC and what they did this year, like Boston was 149 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 2: really good. Last year, their playoff one was amazing. Okayc's 150 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 2: has been very good. They did get pushed to seven. 151 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 2: Boston to get pushed to seven at all. Last year 152 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 2: Boston annihilated everybody, and Tatum obviously was their best player, points, rebounds, assists. 153 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 2: I know Jalen Brown got the MVP in the finals 154 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 2: and in the East, but the numbers went to Tatum. 155 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 2: They also don't didn't play ten to eleven guys like 156 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 2: this OKC team does. And I'm still of the belief 157 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 2: Sga phenomenal player, top seven faux show. I you know, 158 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,959 Speaker 2: I understand how he wins the MVP. I and it's 159 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 2: quite possible. I'm wrong. They Sweet Minnesota dust the Knicks 160 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 2: er Pacers, and it's like, Jay, you look like an 161 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 2: ass clown that that's possible. It's not like that hasn't 162 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 2: happened before when you're in the prediction business. Hey, that's 163 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 2: that's what happens. But Sga was phenomenal with thirty eight 164 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 2: on twenty one shots, a much more efficient. We'll see 165 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 2: how he's refereed in the next game Saturday night. Wait 166 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 2: is it Saturday Sunday? Yeah, so tonight we'll be Nicks 167 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 2: and Pacers Game two, and then game three for the 168 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 2: Indiana will be Sunday. Okay, so well, I mean my 169 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 2: intention is to not do a pod for Monday. However, 170 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,199 Speaker 2: there's something interesting happening Sunday. So if it goes down 171 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 2: the way I think it might, then I'll I might 172 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 2: do the pod. It'll be late, but we'll see really quickly. 173 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 2: So the Indiana Fever played the Atlanta Dream in like 174 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 2: a Home and Home and Atlanta's a tough matchup for 175 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 2: Indie because they have some really they have some just 176 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 2: incredible size on the interior. And fortunately for Indiana, Britney 177 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 2: Granner fauld that. But the real story here was this woman, 178 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 2: Ryan Howard. Again, I'm not a huge WNBA guy. I 179 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 2: don't know her. She was the number one overall pick 180 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two out of Kentucky. I guess I 181 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 2: probably should have known her. She was the number one 182 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 2: overall pick. She's a tough, tough cookie, good player. She 183 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 2: had a great game last night. She's picking up Caitlin 184 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 2: Clark full court and you know, bumping her, bumping her 185 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 2: and Kateler Clark comes across and is about to call 186 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 2: time out and this Howard really gets in her face 187 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 2: again and Clark kind of gives like, just get off, 188 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 2: and Howard just gets right up in her grill and 189 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 2: it's like talking trash and it's like here we go again, 190 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 2: people coming at Clark, and again, I don't know Ryan 191 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 2: Howard at all. If she had delivered a pizza to 192 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 2: my house earlier this week, I would not have known 193 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 2: who she is. Obviously, she's a very talented player. It 194 00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 2: is undeniable that she wanted to get under the skin 195 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 2: in the face of Caitlin Clark, and that is the 196 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 2: strategy of a lot of teams. They exchange words. Clark 197 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 2: very clearly caught on camera saying I'm not afraid of you, 198 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:09,840 Speaker 2: or I'm not scared. I'm sorry, I'm not scared of you, 199 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 2: like Clark said it right to her, like Howard's supposed to. 200 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 2: I don't know what she said to invite it, and 201 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 2: I couldn't find anything from the post game. But anyways, 202 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 2: Clark did not have a good game. Oh for six 203 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 2: on oh sorry, oh for five on threes. They picked 204 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 2: her up all over the court. She did have an 205 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 2: assist late when they were up one, a great pass 206 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 2: to one of the bigs for la and Clark finished 207 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 2: with eleven points, six assists, four boards, for turnovers, five fouls. 208 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 2: Fever did get the win, though, let me see who 209 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 2: the Fever played this weekend. I know you guys care deeply. 210 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 2: It is Oh, the New York Liberty Saturday at ten 211 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 2: am West Coast time. Yeah, I don't think I'll be 212 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 2: up for that one. New York Liberty. They've got a 213 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 2: Oh they're two and zero. They're good, so I guess 214 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 2: it should be a good game New York. By the way, 215 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 2: last night smoked Chicago. Now the story here again. I'm 216 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 2: not getting a wwa. Angel Reese has really gotten under 217 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 2: the skin of a lot of Caitlin Clark fans and folks. 218 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 2: If you go online just punching Angel Reese and then 219 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 2: hit like a Google News or go on social media 220 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 2: for whatever reason, people are just going after her. I 221 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 2: mean like they're crushing her. She's on the struggle bus. 222 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 2: Through two games there was she had a moment where 223 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 2: she collected an offensive rebound, missed a layup, collected another 224 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 2: offensive rebound, missed a layup, collected it again. This is 225 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 2: all in like a fifteen second span. Had her shot blocked, 226 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 2: got the ball again, blew the layup, got the ball 227 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 2: again this time said no, I'm not shot. Kicked it out, folks. 228 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 2: Angel Reese in twenty seven minutes was oh for eight, 229 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 2: two for six on free throws, had twelve rebounds, which 230 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 2: is great, but five turnovers. She has more turnovers than 231 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 2: baskets this season. It's only two games, it's early, but 232 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 2: you know, she's kind of getting lit up online and 233 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 2: and some of this she invites with the commentary and 234 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 2: the bragging and all this stuff. And I guess on 235 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 2: TikTok she repopped somebody about somebody had said like, oh, Angel, 236 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 2: look when you're incident with Caitlin Clark at the little 237 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 2: white girl looking to run away or some some phrase 238 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 2: like that, and Angel Rees repopped it on her TikTok, 239 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 2: like what are you doing? I mean, listen, this stuff 240 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 2: is not gonna stop. It's WNBA summer coming up. Anyways, 241 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 2: what's interesting coming up is Seth Wickersham, the ESPN reporter 242 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 2: who's dove into a great book on quarterbacks. You're gonna 243 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 2: love this here Seth Wickersham from ESPN. 244 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in 245 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsports Radio 246 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to 247 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: listen live. You know, Jason likes to think he knows 248 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: everything when it comes to sports. 249 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:06,439 Speaker 2: I know what sports fans want. 250 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,439 Speaker 1: But for everything he doesn't, he knows a guy who does. 251 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,599 Speaker 2: Let's just say I know a guy who knows a 252 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 2: guy who knows another guy. All right, let's welcome back 253 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 2: to straight Fire. One of the interesting guests. He writes 254 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 2: a lot of books. He does deep dives, which are 255 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 2: few and far between in sports media now. Seth Wickersham 256 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 2: ESPN obviously made huge waves last week in the sports 257 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 2: world with his latest book, which isn't out yet, but 258 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 2: the Caleb Williams off Seth. 259 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 3: How are you man, I'm great. Good to see you. 260 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good to talk to you. Every time you 261 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 2: do a book, massive news comes out of it because 262 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 2: you're such a great reporter and journalist. I've probably known 263 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 2: you at least fifteen years. 264 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, it's funny we did that big lead interview 265 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 4: way back when you know that was a good throwback. 266 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you obviously are one of the foremost 267 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 2: sports reporters who does deep dives. It feels like a 268 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 2: lost art almost in sports media, just because you know 269 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 2: the finances. It doesn't really make a ton of sense 270 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 2: to have somebody write five articles a year, but when 271 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 2: they're as good as yours, you know you can make 272 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 2: it happen. So this let's start here. What brought you 273 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 2: to the idea of this book? Which sounds super fascinating, 274 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 2: And I think this is just the first layer of 275 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 2: many that you got here. 276 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, it is the first la layer in I 277 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 4: mean to be honest with you and not to sound 278 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 4: all uncle Rico, but like it was the genesis is 279 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 4: of being like a failed high school quarterback and me 280 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 4: always wondering, you know what it was unable to cut. 281 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 4: I couldn't quite comprehend how some of these guys do 282 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 4: what they do, and I wanted to try to understand 283 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 4: that on every level. I wanted to try to understand 284 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 4: what it builds in you, what it trips away to 285 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 4: do this job. It's a I want to understand how 286 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 4: it became so popular in our culture and why this 287 00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 4: very odd thing of throwing a football and throwing a 288 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 4: spiral became this thing that very quickly put people on 289 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 4: a level with movie stars, famous musicians, politicians. 290 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 3: And it was like that almost from the start. 291 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 4: And so I didn't write a history about quarterback, but 292 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 4: I wanted to write about, in the realist way, what. 293 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 3: It means to do this job. 294 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 4: At every level from high school to the NFL and 295 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 4: college in between, and then what it's like to live 296 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 4: with it in retirement when you're a Hall of Famer. 297 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 2: That's deep. Let me ask you. So, a lot of 298 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 2: people in sports media were either once athletes or they 299 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 2: wanted to be athletes. I'm in that wanted to be 300 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 2: an athlete bucket. But like I had my growth spurt 301 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 2: and all that stuff, I didn't hit puberty too late, 302 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 2: so I couldn't even make the high school teams. I 303 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 2: played every sport growing up and it, dude, it hurts 304 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 2: so bad, but look where it got me to. You know, 305 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 2: I play in tennis tournaments and soccer and basketball leagues 306 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 2: and I talk about sports. I didn't know about this 307 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 2: quarterback issue. So what were you starting quarterback? Did you 308 00:16:58,760 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 2: not make it? 309 00:16:59,320 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 3: Like? 310 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:00,080 Speaker 2: What was the story? 311 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: Well? 312 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 4: I had my design, like, I had my mind set 313 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 4: on it, and I was a starting quarterback for a 314 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 4: period of time, and I wanted to try to unset 315 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 4: the varsity starter ahead of me and I didn't. 316 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 3: And you know, me being in. 317 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 4: High school, it sent me into a little bit of 318 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 4: a tailspin. And that's not what the book's about. But 319 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 4: that's kind of my entry off point. It's like wondering. 320 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 4: And even the guy who started ahead of me, he 321 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:32,120 Speaker 4: played in college, but like even he had that kind 322 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 4: of mysterious ability, like you know, I was, I was 323 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 4: really good in practice, and then when the bullets started flying, 324 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 4: you know, something after doing it for a couple of years, 325 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 4: but like on the varsity level, like something within me 326 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 4: kind of broke down and these these you know, things 327 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 4: that I had committed to muscle memory didn't work, whereas 328 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 4: like he was like the opposite where he when the 329 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 4: bullets were flying is when he became better and became 330 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 4: one of the best in the state. 331 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 3: And you know, that's it's always stayed with me. 332 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 4: But you know more than that, you know, you and 333 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 4: I talked to my Patriots book came out, and you know, 334 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 4: I got to know Tom Brady back in two thousand 335 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 4: and one, back before anyone knew that he would even 336 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 4: finish the season as the starter. And it was kind 337 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 4: of interesting because we were the same class in high school, 338 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 4: same class in college, getting our career breaks at the 339 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 4: same time, and it was kind of interesting to just see, 340 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 4: as it turned out, you know, the greatest player in 341 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 4: NFL history standing with me at that moment, and you know, 342 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 4: he was the one, and he and Peyton Manning were 343 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 4: the ones out of kind of like our era that 344 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 4: ended up doing this thing. 345 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 3: At the highest level. And so anyway, you. 346 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 4: Know, it's there's a lot of quarterbacks that I write 347 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 4: about in the book, current and former guys. I dive 348 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 4: into the lives of some guys who are with us anymore. 349 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 4: But I needed to, you know, understand how they do 350 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:52,360 Speaker 4: it anywhere, from you know, memorizing a playbook to two 351 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 4: minute drives, to how they deal with all of the 352 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 4: different hats you have to wear as a quarterback, from 353 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 4: you know, spokesman of a multi billion dollar organization to 354 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 4: matt and a idol to huge asshole at times. And 355 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 4: you know what it builds in you and again you 356 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 4: know what it strips away and what are the things 357 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 4: that you end up that stays with you when you're 358 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 4: away from the game. And you know how compatible and 359 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 4: incompatible are those with regular life. 360 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 2: Yeah. So Caleb Williams obviously is at the center of 361 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 2: last week's firestorm and the quotes from his dad, which 362 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 2: I largely agree with, will you get too shortly? I 363 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 2: am curious when you approached Caleb Williams about the book. 364 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 2: Was he open to it because him and his family 365 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 2: seem like very interesting folks, forward thinking, you know, cowher 366 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:39,919 Speaker 2: Do I work with knows the family well, and he's 367 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 2: told me some stuff. I'm interested in them. And because 368 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,640 Speaker 2: you know the how did you get them on board 369 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 2: for the book? And what was their pushback? 370 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 4: Well, when I reached out to Caleb through USC back 371 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 4: in when I first started working in the book, which 372 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 4: was really the spring of twenty twenty three, so he had, 373 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 4: you know, just off that great season, and you know, 374 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 4: he was definitely an American king, and plus you know, 375 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 4: the things he was doing with Nil I thought was 376 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 4: really interesting. He was kind of the first professional amateur quarterback. 377 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 3: And you know, so I visited with him, visited with 378 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 3: some of the folks at us see his high. 379 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 4: School, his dad, and and then you know, as the 380 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 4: season went on his last season at USC. 381 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 3: It was you know a little up and down. And then. 382 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 4: When stuff was coming out about the draft, and you know, 383 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 4: he and his dad thinking about doing something similar to 384 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 4: what Jack and John Elway did in nineteen eighty three, 385 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 4: which I write about extensively in the book. And you 386 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 4: know what Archie and Eli Manning did in two thousand 387 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 4: and four. 388 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:42,360 Speaker 3: I thought it was just interesting. 389 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, So it was like usually when the story pops 390 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,719 Speaker 2: of the Magnitude the Years did last week, there's all 391 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 2: kinds of denials and pushback. I didn't hear a damn 392 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 2: word from Shane Waldron or the eber Flushes camp. They 393 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 2: all went silent because clearly it's all factual. And I 394 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,880 Speaker 2: am curious, how did did you hear anything privately from 395 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 2: anybody that was like, oh, man, come on, how are 396 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 2: you going to do me dirty like this? 397 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: No. 398 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 4: I met with Carl you know, so everyone with the 399 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 4: book that you know that I got, you know, a 400 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 4: level of cooperation from I tried my best to meet 401 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 4: with them in person and fact check everything. 402 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 3: And so the. 403 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 4: Williams As were part of that, you know. I did 404 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 4: that with l Way, Steve Young, warn Moon, the Mannings, 405 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 4: and you know, so I think that, like, you know, 406 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 4: it's funny you do these stories and everyone the first question, 407 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 4: everyone asks what's the reaction, and so it's it's it's 408 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 4: kind of amusing. I'm not trying to go all Larry 409 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,239 Speaker 4: David on you, but like, you know, the reaction is 410 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 4: me getting questions about what the reaction if. 411 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 2: That's a good one, and listen, I'm sure that privately 412 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 2: there were some people unhappy Ben Johnson handled it. Well, Hey, 413 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 2: I wasn't here. We're just looking forward. I am curious. 414 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 2: Like the biggest knock on Caleb coming into the pros 415 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,679 Speaker 2: was too much backyard action? Dude? Can he ring that in? 416 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 2: And he didn't really rein it in as a rookie, 417 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 2: but you could argue it was the coaching staff, the 418 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 2: offensive coordinator of a quarterback. He just didn't get the 419 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 2: support needed. Is that a fair assessment or no? 420 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 3: Well, I think there's a couple of things at play. 421 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 4: So number one, you know, I write a lot about 422 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 4: the Pro day. You know, his pro day, and you 423 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:21,199 Speaker 4: know what goes into a pro day? 424 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 3: Why do we even do them? They're kind of ridiculous, 425 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 3: But you know. 426 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 4: The way he was trying to do it and the 427 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 4: way the people who are helping him do it, or 428 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 4: they were trying to tell a story with that Pro 429 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 4: day and with Caleb in particular, I think that they 430 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 4: wanted to try to show those who were there or 431 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 4: erase any doubt that he was about all football. And 432 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 4: I think that like when you know, so much happened 433 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 4: in his life so quickly. 434 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:46,439 Speaker 3: He won the. 435 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 4: Heisman Trophy, he got all the endorsements, he got so 436 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 4: much notoriety, and you know, that is a seductive and 437 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 4: dangerous place. And I write at length about that about 438 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 4: you know, what happens when you get that level of 439 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 4: fame and how easy it is to let your day 440 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 4: job slip a little bit. And I think that when 441 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 4: they lost calebs last year at USC, they lost at 442 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 4: home to Washington, and that was the game that he 443 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 4: cried in his mother's arms, and he didn't meet with 444 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 4: the press after the game, And so I think that 445 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,640 Speaker 4: a lot of NFL people were wondering, like, hey, look, 446 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 4: that's not going to fly in the NFL, Like it's 447 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,159 Speaker 4: not going to fly in the for an organization, and 448 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 4: it's definitely not going to fly in the locker room. 449 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 3: Like you need to be able to do that. 450 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 4: And so when I was watching Caleb's first year, more 451 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 4: than anything you know, in terms of like his you know, 452 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 4: fundamentals as a quarterback, I was really watching to. 453 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 3: See like how he handled himself. And I thought he 454 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 3: handled himself excellently, Like he was put in some very 455 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 3: compromising situations by that coaching staff, and he was accountable. 456 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 3: He was a good leader, he never broke, and he 457 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 3: was tough. I mean, he was a really tough player. 458 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 4: And I think that you saw teammates respond to him 459 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 4: in a way that I think is pretty unique. And 460 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 4: I also think, you know, not for nothing, that the 461 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 4: hardest thing to do in the NFL is to throw 462 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,199 Speaker 4: in known passing situations, and he showed a talent for 463 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 4: being able to do that. And I think that you know, 464 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 4: you look at rookie years, it's rare that you have 465 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 4: a Marino or a CJ. 466 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 3: Stroud or a Jaden Daniels. You know, most for most 467 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 3: of these guys, it's about survival, and I think we 468 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 3: can all say that he survived pretty well. 469 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,159 Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in 470 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio 471 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: dot com and within the iHeartRadio app. Search FSR to 472 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: listen live. 473 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 2: The whole question about quarterbacks is fascinating because I don't 474 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 2: know if I talk to you leading up to Mahomes 475 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,159 Speaker 2: entering the draft, but you know, nobody on Earth, I 476 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 2: don't care who they are, saw Mahomes being this good. 477 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 2: Nobody nobody in the NFL. And it comes back to like, 478 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 2: does the NFL still struggle to grasp what a quarterback 479 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 2: can do in the NFL? Because like Rock Purty, dead 480 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 2: last pick in the draft, everybody passed out him, including 481 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 2: the Niners. Yeah, and then you know, he turns out 482 00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 2: to be I don't want to say a superstar, but 483 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 2: looks like he could be a superstar and he just 484 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 2: got a massive contract, Lamar Jackson, end of the first round. 485 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,199 Speaker 2: You could do this forever in your dealings around the 486 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 2: book of what makes a quarterback? Did you touch on 487 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 2: it all? Like why the NFL has struggled to identify 488 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 2: that quarterback position? 489 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely? 490 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 4: And you know a lot of it goes back to 491 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 4: the things that Carl Williams was worried about, and that's 492 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 4: that like coaching matters, organization matters, infrastructure matters. Like you know, 493 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,479 Speaker 4: if Patrick Mahomes, you know the what if game, I mean, 494 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 4: if he hadn't been taken by the Chiefs, he would have. 495 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 3: Been taken by the New Orleans Saints and John Payton. 496 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 4: So he probably would have turned out well no matter what. 497 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 4: But let's just say that like some sorry team had 498 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 4: decided to sight up and pick him, right, I mean 499 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 4: Bryce Young, Yeah, Bryce, he has no chance. I mean 500 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 4: how many coaches did he have in two years three? 501 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 4: I think total? Like, you have no chance when it's 502 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 4: that type of situation. And so I think that Carl 503 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 4: Williams saw that hurricane coming and wanted to. 504 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 3: Figure out if there was a way, like Jack Elway. 505 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 4: Did, and like Archie Manning did you know, to give 506 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 4: his son some sort of agency over his future employer. 507 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 4: But look, it was Caleb who was driving this. He 508 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 4: was the decision maker. He's a grown up, and Carl 509 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 4: was willing to do whatever. 510 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 3: It took if that's what Caleb wanted. 511 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, Caleb, after some apprehension, 512 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 4: was sold on the Bears and really wanted to figure 513 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 4: out a way to make it work there. 514 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 3: But you're absolutely right. 515 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 4: I mean, there's very few men who can throw footballs 516 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 4: into the tight windows that we need in the NFL, 517 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 4: and there's fewer people who can identify that talent and 518 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 4: even fewer people who can coach at a high level. 519 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 2: So that all leads up. And I know that you 520 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 2: know you have arch Manning in the book, and I'm 521 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 2: sure that you're saving the best stuff for when you know, 522 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,640 Speaker 2: the college football season approaches. But you know, as soon 523 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 2: as the twenty five mock draft was done with the 524 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 2: quarterback situation shot or blah blah blah, it turned to 525 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 2: twenty six and almost as if it was a coordinate effect, 526 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 2: coordinated like attack, not attack, but a coordinated effort from 527 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 2: the Manning family. All I saw from reporters were, well, 528 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 2: Arch Manning's probably not going to come out. I mean, seth, 529 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 2: it's very rare that, like every reporter has the same 530 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 2: thing on Arch Banning not coming out. I almost feel 531 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 2: like it was coming from the Manning camp, like they 532 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 2: had this ready, Hey, man, don't put him in your 533 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 2: Montracy's not coming out. I personally think that's BS. But 534 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 2: you know, we'll see he's making a ton of money 535 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,159 Speaker 2: in Nil. Is there anything you can at least tease 536 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 2: on the Manning front that that angle from the book? 537 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I don't know. I wasn't privy to 538 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 4: you know, that level of reporting. I do think that 539 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 4: like one of the and this you know, I'm happy 540 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 4: to talk about this, but like you know, when you 541 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 4: be when you become a quarterback, you're taking on responsibilities 542 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 4: that are so much different than being a shortstop or 543 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 4: a center fielder or a point guard, right. I mean, 544 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 4: that's obvious. It's it's in this lofty cultural place. If 545 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 4: you're a manning and you do that, it's even more 546 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 4: it's that on steroids. And so when Arch decided that 547 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 4: he wanted to be a quarterback, in each stage, those 548 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 4: kind of critical stages, I think that the family has 549 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 4: made decisions to slow things down a little bit. Like 550 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 4: they didn't put Arch as high up against the top 551 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:17,640 Speaker 4: competition as they could. 552 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 3: Have when he was a flag football quarterback. 553 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,160 Speaker 4: And I think that, you know, one of the things 554 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 4: I talked about in the book is that like, you know, 555 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 4: he didn't want offers like they took. They they I 556 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 4: dive deep into the recruitment and one of the things 557 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 4: about the recruitment is they wanted it to be like 558 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 4: a nineteen seventy style recruitment with the head coach of 559 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 4: the high school running point. 560 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 3: They didn't want offers. 561 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 4: They didn't want him having to tweet every five minutes 562 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 4: that he was honored to get, you know, an offer 563 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 4: from Ole Miss. 564 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 3: I'm just making that up. 565 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 4: And you know, they wanted to try to put a 566 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 4: semblance of a protective bubble around him, knowing that there 567 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 4: was this mania going on that you know, almost didn't 568 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 4: even need him to exist, and you know, Archie Manning 569 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 4: it inadvertently kind of got it going because he he 570 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 4: said when Arch was a freshman that he was a 571 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 4: little ahead of where Peyton and Eli were when they 572 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 4: were freshmen. And of that, of course, you know that 573 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 4: was on CNN. I mean that caught fire. What he 574 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 4: meant was that neither Peyton nor Eli had started at 575 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 4: isidor Newman on varsity as a freshman, and that's what 576 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 4: arch was doing. So that's what the context of it was. 577 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 4: But again it was kind of a reminder that there 578 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 4: was this mania that was going on. 579 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 3: And one of the reasons. 580 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 4: Why, you know, I think Austin and University of Texas 581 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 4: were appealing to him was that it was a big town. 582 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 4: I mean, it's a city, and it's a place that 583 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 4: like he can hide a little bit better than he 584 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 4: would have been able to in Oxford, Mississippi. 585 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 2: Huh Now that what about that? I don't know if 586 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 2: you got into this, but there was a lot of 587 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 2: talk that when Quinn Yours returned, Arch didn't want to 588 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,719 Speaker 2: sit another year, maybe he'll transfer to Georgia and this 589 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 2: team was going to offer him. Did you guys touch 590 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 2: on any of that speculation or no. 591 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 4: I didn't write about it in the book, But I 592 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 4: don't think he was leaving Texas, like I just I 593 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 4: think that that was like you know it again, Like 594 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 4: I said, it doesn't need a lot from him to 595 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 4: even exist. And I think that people think that because 596 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 4: he's Arch and because he's a Manning, that you know, 597 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 4: everything has to be now and everything has to be 598 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 4: on this accelerated track, when I think that he does 599 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 4: a pretty good job of balancing what he's trying to 600 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 4: accomplish immediately and kind of a longer term perspective. 601 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 2: So the interesting thing that I liked on the Williams 602 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 2: angle Caleb Williams that merges with Arches that the father 603 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 2: essentially said, hey man, this is an unconstitutional rookie contract. 604 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 2: They have you for basically up to eight years. Well, 605 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 2: if guys like Arch Manning stick around until twenty two 606 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 2: twenty three in college, you're locked into a team basically 607 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 2: until you're thirty and your prime and you know, quarterbacks 608 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 2: are now playing a little longer. But it does feel 609 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 2: a little weird that they can lock you in that long. 610 00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 2: I am curious where do you stand Seth Wickersham Independent 611 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 2: and did of all the reporting, you know, where do 612 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 2: you stand on that? Do you think that's fair? 613 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 3: I don't think it's fair at all. 614 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 4: I mean, you're talking about a sport where the average 615 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 4: career spans three years, and those prime earning years. Again, 616 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 4: you know, the reason that you know Caleb didn't return 617 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 4: to USC or go to another school where you know 618 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 4: he was offered a lot of money, is that everybody 619 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 4: wants the second contract. And you know, this is why 620 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 4: where you get picked is so important, because they have 621 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 4: you locked up for your four year rookie contract, fifth 622 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 4: year option, and then if they chose, they can franchise 623 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 4: you for three straight years, so you can be eight 624 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 4: years into your NFL career before you hit the market. 625 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 4: And that to me is wrong, Like you know, but 626 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 4: then again, it was a collectively bargained and you know, 627 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 4: I get into this in the book, but you. 628 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 3: Had that that time. 629 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 4: I mean, this is probably around the time that you 630 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 4: and I first did that interview. But remember, like quarterbacks 631 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 4: are coming out and they were giving these huge deals 632 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 4: like Alex Smith Jermarcus Russell, Matthew Stafford, matt you know, 633 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 4: were getting these monstrous deals and they were you know, 634 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 4: it was causing problems all the way around, and like 635 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,959 Speaker 4: good for the quarterbacks to get what they good that 636 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 4: what they could. Good for Tom Condon, who negotiated a 637 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 4: bunch of them and kind of became this super agent 638 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 4: in that time. But they were messing up a lot 639 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 4: of things I think within the construct of a team 640 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 4: that made ended up making things harder on the quarterback 641 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 4: in the long term. And I think that in twenty eleven, 642 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 4: when the league and the union got together to you know, 643 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 4: finalize a new collective bargaining agreement, and it was. 644 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 3: A tough, tough negotiation. 645 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 4: You know, one of the things that went in there 646 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 4: was the rookie wage scale. And I think that the 647 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 4: idea of a rookie wage scale, you know, I understand it. 648 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 4: What they're trying to do is ship that money to 649 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 4: the veterans. Now, how how has that worked out? I'm 650 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 4: not exactly quite sure. I think it's more of a 651 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 4: mixed perspective. 652 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, we can wrap up with this. I don't know, Seth. 653 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 2: Like I do love the NFL, I don't obviously love 654 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 2: some of these contracts situations for quarterbacks, but I cannot 655 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 2: get over the Shadeur Sanders slide. A. Didn't touch on 656 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 2: any Shadour in the book? Or is he just no? 657 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 2: And did you approach him or anything? And then b 658 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 2: were you surprised that he plummeted to the fifth round. 659 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 4: I saw Shador play when he was like seven years old, 660 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 4: when I was doing a Dion Sandor's profile for ESPN 661 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 4: the magazine. But he wasn't someone that I wrote about 662 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 4: at length in the book. I you see the sign 663 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 4: behind me, it says, go buffs. I mean, I was 664 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 4: born in Colorado, I grew up half my life in Boulder, 665 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 4: half my adolescence. And you know, I watched Shador a lot. 666 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 4: I thought he was a phenomenal player. When Peter King 667 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 4: watched USC so Caleb Williams versus Colorado in Boulder, he 668 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 4: thought Shador was a better pro prospect than Caleb Williams. 669 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 4: And I think that once he kind of was falling 670 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 4: out of the second round, it was pretty obvious that 671 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 4: the league looked at him like a project, whether that's 672 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 4: fair or not. And then after that, it's what baggage 673 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 4: comes with the project, you know, and that's you know, 674 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 4: can he be an understudy, Can he be under the radar? 675 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,720 Speaker 3: Can his dad, who's you know, such a famous figure 676 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 3: and has coached him his entire life, deal with him 677 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 3: being a backup, maybe being a third stringer. I think 678 00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,479 Speaker 3: those are the questions that came into play. 679 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 4: And you know, I think that like for Shaudeur, as 680 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 4: awful as draft day is, the draft process might have been. 681 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 4: I think that like the benefit in the long run, 682 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 4: if there is one, is that it gives him a 683 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 4: chance to earn the job outright rather than have it 684 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 4: handed to him. And I think that players in the 685 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 4: locker room respect that so much more than you know, 686 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 4: when a guy comes in straight out of college and 687 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 4: it's just kind of handed that job. I think that's 688 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 4: a tough position for a lot of quarterbacks to be in. 689 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,440 Speaker 4: I write about it in the book, and I think 690 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,319 Speaker 4: that like Shador, having to work his way up the 691 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 4: depth chart in the long run will probably help him. 692 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 2: That's a reasonable take. And that's what he does seth Wickersham, 693 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:57,839 Speaker 2: not that he's a tank guy, but that's a that's 694 00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 2: a pretty I haven't heard that angle. Like in the 695 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,760 Speaker 2: law run, this is probably better for him to start 696 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 2: at four. I don't know, maybe five, depending on where 697 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 2: Deshaun Watson was in a couple of months. 698 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 4: So this is this interesting thing, and I mean you've 699 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 4: probably talked about it, but like there's this entire economy 700 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 4: for quarterbacks in the NFL who have been broken and 701 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 4: managed to find a way to hang on. And if 702 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 4: it's like Gino Smith and Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield 703 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 4: to a certain extent, these guys who like they got 704 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 4: got to play right away, then you know, it didn't 705 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,800 Speaker 4: work out with that team for whatever reason, often because 706 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 4: of structural reasons beyond their control, especially with Donald, and 707 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 4: they're able to like take a step back, and then 708 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 4: when they maybe join a team that is some better coaching, 709 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 4: they're able to look at the game and it just 710 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 4: comes so much slower and answers are there that they 711 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 4: didn't see before. I think that like someone like Will 712 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 4: Levis could be somebody like that in the future if 713 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 4: things don't work out in Tennessee, where you know he played. 714 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:52,800 Speaker 3: For a year and a half. 715 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 4: He made some awful turnovers last year obviously got on 716 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 4: the coach's nerves, but like he's shown he couldn't play 717 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 4: in the NFL, he can make some pretty impressive grows. 718 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 4: It's like things don't work out for him in Tennessee 719 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,239 Speaker 4: and he goes somewhere else where there's better coaching and 720 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 4: a better infrastructure and the spotlight's not on him. It 721 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,239 Speaker 4: gives him a chance to kind of like work his 722 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 4: way back into that second chance. And I think that, 723 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 4: you know, it's not exactly analogous to Shador, but I 724 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 4: think that the path is kind of the same where 725 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 4: it's a little it's not the straightest path ever, but 726 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 4: I think that in the long run it'll benefit him. 727 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels like a Baker Mayfield, you know in Cleveland, 728 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 2: like really bottom down that bounced around the league. Now 729 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 2: he's back to being like an all pro all right. 730 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 2: Zach Wickersham, ESPN. Great stuff, Seth. I'm waiting for the 731 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,279 Speaker 2: next big domino to fall in your book and will 732 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 2: hopefully be able to get you back on the pod. 733 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:45,359 Speaker 3: Thanks man, good to see you.