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Speaker 1: Welcome to Naked Sports, the podcast where we live at

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Speaker 1: the intersection of sports, politics, and culture. Our purpose reveal

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Speaker 1: the common threads that bind them all.

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Speaker 2: So what's happening in women's basketball right now is what

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Speaker 2: we've been trying to.

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Speaker 1: Get to for almost thirty years. From the stadiums where

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Speaker 1: athlete to break barriers and set records.

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Speaker 2: Caitlin Quark broke the all time single game assist record.

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Speaker 2: This is crazy for rookies to be doing.

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Speaker 1: Our discussions will uncover the vital connections between these realms

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Speaker 1: and the community we create. Welcome to Naked Sports. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Carrie Champion. Hey everybody, I'm Kerrie Champion. Miss

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Speaker 1: jaw family, Welcome back to Naked Sports. So my next

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Speaker 1: guest was a very familiar voice on NPR Radio as

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Speaker 1: she hosted All Things Considered. Now she is a colleague

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Speaker 1: on CNN. She hosts CNN This Morning Without Eye Cornish.

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Speaker 1: She is someone that I have admired for years, years, years, years,

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Speaker 1: And you always have this situation where you don't necessarily

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Speaker 1: always want to meet your heroes just in case. Well,

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Speaker 1: she is definitely a journalistm hero for me, and I

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Speaker 1: am more than happy to say that I have met her,

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Speaker 1: I have gotten to know her, and she is absolutely amazing.

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Speaker 1: So today on Naked Sports, where we try to make

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Speaker 1: sports policy and culture intersect, I think we have the

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Speaker 1: perfect guess audy cornish howdi Welcome to Naked Sports, where

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Speaker 1: we try to make culture policy and I guess entertainment.

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Speaker 1: If you will all come together, there's sports included. Can

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Speaker 1: you do me a favor? Can you take off your earrings,

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Speaker 1: maybe your jacket, some shoes, something to make you feel

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Speaker 1: a little less tight, a little more.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why I'm wearing earrings when I'm wearing

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Speaker 2: my cans. It makes no sense. But I'm transitioning from

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Speaker 2: TV mode to radio mode, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: And it's like it is a taking off of things

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Speaker 2: that's right, basically.

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Speaker 1: And my hope is while you do that, you feel

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Speaker 1: a little less dressed, not so naked, but a little

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Speaker 1: less stressed, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: I always feel that with you, you are the most

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Speaker 2: like you're one of the most charismatic people I've ever met,

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Speaker 2: and every once in a while, like the word charisma

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Speaker 2: doesn't really mean much until you encounter it, and then

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Speaker 2: you're like, oh shoot, like wait, a second. This person

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Speaker 2: has a different way of interacting with the world, which

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Speaker 2: isn't physical. It's like, there's something about the way you're

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Speaker 2: able to put people at ease that I actually really admire.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. I will receive that because you will hear

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Speaker 1: in this intro how I was very effusive with my praise,

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Speaker 1: and I appreciate that. I think that when I do

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Speaker 1: these interviews, and especially starting season five, I want people

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Speaker 1: to know my guests the way that I know my guests.

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Speaker 1: I think that's something that I haven't been able to

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Speaker 1: really convey for me on this podcast.

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Speaker 2: Isn't that the crazy part of podcasting or interviewing? It's

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Speaker 2: sometimes someone said to me the other day, the showrunner

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Speaker 2: was like, I don't know if you can communicate with

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Speaker 2: the audience the way you do in conversation in an interview,

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Speaker 2: and I think maybe there's something to that. All this

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Speaker 2: time I thought the interview was a medium of intimacy,

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Speaker 2: which it is, but I think as long as it's

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Speaker 2: a medium of inquiry, sometimes it can make it hard

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Speaker 2: to get to what you really want to do right.

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Speaker 2: And I've now come to realize that sometimes sharing an

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Speaker 2: inquiry aren't the same No matter how you make it sound.

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Speaker 1: Yes, no matter, it's not the same. And that is

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Speaker 1: so profound of you to say. So I have I've

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Speaker 1: come up with different guests, different questions, but for you specifically,

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Speaker 1: and I think of when I do rapid fire, I

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Speaker 1: do it in this way, and so we'll start with

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Speaker 1: this question. My name is Carrie, and I was supposed

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Speaker 1: to be Gary after my father. My mom knew she

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Speaker 1: was going to have a boy. She did not have

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Speaker 1: a boy, and so at the last minute she was like, eh,

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Speaker 1: I'll put a C in front of her name, in

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Speaker 1: an I at the end, and it made it more feminine.

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Speaker 1: And here you have Carrie, which means caring if you

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Speaker 1: look it up. I would like to know the origin

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Speaker 1: story of Audi.

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Speaker 2: That's interesting. So the origin story, well, first of all,

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Speaker 2: my mom also wanted to name me a different name,

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Speaker 2: and she went around giving all of the kids her

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Speaker 2: name that her choice of name is the middle name.

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Speaker 2: That was the compromise. So all of us joke that

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Speaker 2: our middle names are our alternate, our sliding doors, you know,

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Speaker 2: like there's a world where I am Natalie Oh, which

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Speaker 2: also kind of fits. You know, I have no problem

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Speaker 2: with that, but my dad went out and he went

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Speaker 2: with Audie and it was the name of a beauty

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Speaker 2: queen in Jamaica. Pageant culture, especially in the seventies, was

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Speaker 2: a very big deal in Jamaica, and if you look

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Speaker 2: back on that period, the biggest pop stars, prime ministers, whoever.

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Speaker 2: It was kind of this, you know, a little bit

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Speaker 2: of a cultural thing to have like a Miss Universe

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Speaker 2: contestant on your arm, and many, many beautiful Jamaican women

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Speaker 2: advance in those international competitions, but it means there are

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Speaker 2: lots and lots of local competitions, right, little parish pageants

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Speaker 2: and things like that. And I was named after a

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Speaker 2: woman that my dad saw on and he did one

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Speaker 2: of those like if I ever had a daughter, and

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Speaker 2: I thought he made it up, and then I later

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Speaker 2: on as an adult journalist, you can't help it. I

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Speaker 2: went and kind of looked her up, and I think

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Speaker 2: I was able to find her on Facebook and she

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Speaker 2: had passed by then. But it's a crazy name to

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Speaker 2: have because it's unisex. The most famous audi in the

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Speaker 2: States is you said this was rapid fire. This is

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Speaker 2: not rapid fire. I'm so sorry. I'm like looking off

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Speaker 2: in the middle distance. The original rabid fire. If the

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Speaker 2: rabbid fire answer is my dad gave it to me

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Speaker 2: and he named me after a woman he saw in

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Speaker 2: a beauty pageant.

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Speaker 1: Done, and you are a beauty for sure? Oh what

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Speaker 1: about this? So I ran track. My event was hurdles.

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Speaker 1: I was not great, But if in fact I wanted

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Speaker 1: to be a track star, I knew that I could

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Speaker 1: not be. What sport did you play and love?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 1: But it didn't transition into a professional athlete?

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Speaker 2: Oh, needless to say, I did everything. I played basketball,

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Speaker 2: I was like a little what is it power forward?

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Speaker 2: What's left right? If you're like, can't really shoot? And

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Speaker 2: I played center fields and softball and I was a catcher,

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Speaker 2: which I really enjoyed. H Yeah, that was it. Then

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Speaker 2: I was in the marching band, which is sports adjacent. Sure,

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Speaker 2: sports adjacent.

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Speaker 1: OHO knew we had an athlete, a beauty queen and

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Speaker 1: an athlete. All I mean, there wasn't athlete if we

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Speaker 1: found that out in the first three minutes of God.

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Speaker 2: Parents thought playing American sports would make us more American.

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Speaker 2: So it was very much of like me being you know,

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Speaker 2: at first out in left field, like this blows whose

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Speaker 2: idea was this? And then being like, well, in America, yeah,

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Speaker 2: he played baseball, you know, and so that's what you

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Speaker 2: had to do, like get beamed in the face with

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Speaker 2: a softball a couple of times. So, as it turns

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Speaker 2: out now that citizenship is questioned in such a manner,

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Speaker 2: it would get only more difficult as time went on.

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Speaker 2: But I would not call myself an athlete. I would

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Speaker 2: just call myself Jamaican, like there was some requirements. I

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Speaker 2: would call you an athlete. You've played it, you did it,

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Speaker 2: You're an athlete. Respect for sports. I would say that

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Speaker 2: Jamaican raised in Boston. It's like your passport is just

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Speaker 2: like athletic mascot stamps.

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Speaker 1: There you go, there you go. Okay, So I did

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Speaker 1: just binge watch Nobody Wants This season two on Netflix.

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Speaker 1: It is Guilty Pleasure, And I know that you love

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Speaker 1: reality shows.

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Speaker 2: I do.

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Speaker 1: Which one has you basically enthralled at this moment?

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Speaker 2: Are we ever really enthralled by show? Or are we

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Speaker 2: just sort of like succumbing to it? For me, it's

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Speaker 2: Love is Blind also Netflix, because it's the first season

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Speaker 2: was so wild and I think it has all the

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Speaker 2: things you want in a reality show, which is just

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Speaker 2: like it's on the verge of exploitation and probably is,

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Speaker 2: and that's what makes it a guilty pleasure. But also

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Speaker 2: it just plunges people into like a cold bath of

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Speaker 2: emotions in front of the world. And like all reality shows,

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Speaker 2: it gets worse every year. But yeah, I watch it

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Speaker 2: each and every.

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Speaker 1: Time, like Queven, though, I know it a quick follow

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Speaker 1: up if and these are big ifs. If you weren't married,

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Speaker 1: if you weren't on CNN, would you ever do you.

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Speaker 2: Love is Blind? Oh no, but I would definitely host

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Speaker 2: Love Is Blind, because girl, I have questions. I have

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Speaker 2: questions for everyone involved. I have questions for their lawyers.

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Speaker 2: Sorry nick y'all do your best because they're they're actually,

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Speaker 2: you know, into selling the propaganda of it. But honestly,

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Speaker 2: I think it should be called Love is Therapy. Every

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Speaker 2: single person on it I had real issues they could

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Speaker 2: have worked out prior to this point.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well when now they say relationships are your

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Speaker 1: most the biggest mirror for you in terms of who

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Speaker 1: you are and what you are not, So I don't know,

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Speaker 1: maybe that's.

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Speaker 2: What right I know, I know, but you know what,

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Speaker 2: my I had a pastor who once said, you know,

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Speaker 2: you may you may have a partner who like, hits

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Speaker 2: your trigger button, but they didn't install it. And that's

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Speaker 2: what it's like watching this show. It's people who like

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Speaker 2: they have other triggers, they have other issues, and the

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Speaker 2: situation brings it out like someone's hitting the button, but

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Speaker 2: they didn't install it.

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Speaker 1: Yallation exactly.

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Speaker 2: I think that's the thing. When they suddenly are like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I guess my dad is a lot, then they maybe

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Speaker 2: wouldn't have noticed unless they saw yeah, as you said,

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Speaker 2: they saw it in the mirror.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're like, WHOA. If I if I had

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Speaker 1: a hidden talent one if I, if I could ask

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Speaker 1: for any hidden talent, it would be to sing and

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Speaker 1: or dance. I think my life would be completely different,

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Speaker 1: My career, my trajectory would be different if, in fact,

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Speaker 1: I had that talent. I don't know if I'd be

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Speaker 1: on Broadway. I don't necessarily know if I'd be an actress,

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Speaker 1: but I know that it would. It would create something

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Speaker 1: different in my spirit. If you had another talent, because

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Speaker 1: you have many, actually.

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Speaker 2: I can actually ask you question, is a great being curious?

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Speaker 2: Is a beautiful talent? People aren't cure anymore. That's what

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Speaker 2: you don't say about the cat. It's a little rum

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Speaker 2: and being curious as a woman is not great. Not great.

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Speaker 1: They judge all the time, They judgress all the time.

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Speaker 2: I heard somebody listening. But I had an ex boyfriend.

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Speaker 2: I remember, he's my favorite ex boyfriend. Hey, when when

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Speaker 2: he introduced me into his friends, one of them goes, oh,

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Speaker 2: a girl with personality. Oh, and I was like attacked,

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Speaker 2: also pride, also like oh, and I remember, you know

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Speaker 2: you're seventeen, eighteen nineteen. Those are formative moments, right, And

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Speaker 2: it was the first time I really heard in high

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Speaker 2: school like no one ever wanted to date me. So

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Speaker 2: the idea that finally I was datable and then somebody

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Speaker 2: was like, oh one of these person girl.

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Speaker 1: Who talks, you know what I mean was brain.

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Speaker 2: It was disheartening, but it was also uh empowering, Like

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Speaker 2: I think I realized, like, yep, that's who's got two

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Speaker 2: thumbs and a personality. We're doing it and I'm not

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Speaker 2: offering other things. You know, It's not like six feet

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Speaker 2: of legs or something. It's just like this, this is

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Speaker 2: me and if you're not into that, you should bounce.

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Speaker 2: And it made me like I never had pretty privilege

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Speaker 2: and that's the greatest thing ever, because you really weed

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Speaker 2: out a lot of psychopaths. That's another thing I learned

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Speaker 2: from watching Love Is Blind. You know people who want

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Speaker 2: to use you as a trophy, who just have other

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Speaker 2: ideas about who you are and what you can be.

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Speaker 2: Being that like ugh personality girl means everyone knows what

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Speaker 2: they signed up for. That's probably for the best.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So it just weeds you right out of.

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Speaker 2: The well, just like you're not ready.

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Speaker 1: If you had a talent, another talent, another talent, what

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Speaker 1: would it be and how would it change your trajectory

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Speaker 1: slash career life.

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Speaker 2: Oh I wish, I wish I spoke other languages, and

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Speaker 2: I wish I had a facility for speaking other languages.

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Speaker 2: I would absolutely have had some other kind of international career,

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Speaker 2: not even in journalism. But I love the world. I

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Speaker 2: love cities, and when I do travel, I'm always like,

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Speaker 2: why don't I live here? And then I quickly remember

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Speaker 2: that I can barely speak the language. But it is,

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Speaker 2: it is the hidden talent I wish that I had.

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Speaker 1: I picture you being Nicole Kidman, an interpreter. Remember Oh wow,

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Speaker 1: yeah yeah.

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Speaker 2: She like she?

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's a beauty, that's powerful, powerful to know

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Speaker 1: speak other languages.

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Speaker 2: It really is, it really is. You know, in the

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Speaker 2: Bible it was like Babylon, like getting everyone together. It

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Speaker 2: causes a lot of worries, but I think, like the

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Speaker 2: truth is, I can't think of a bigger and better

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Speaker 2: power to have, especially in this moment.

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Speaker 1: Especially in this moment, that that is so true. We

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Speaker 1: can get to that last rapid fire, not so rapid fire.

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Speaker 2: Love. I've ruined the conceit.

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Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. I don't mind, I

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Speaker 1: don't mind. They'll edit this, she's she'll speed it up,

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Speaker 1: speed it up, keep it as is, would just speed

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Speaker 1: it up? No kidding. I am scared. I am truly

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Speaker 1: truly scared of the expectations for myself. What are you

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Speaker 1: scared of?

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Speaker 2: Uh? You know, I don't know what I would have

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Speaker 2: said until you said that sentence, and that kind of

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Speaker 2: hit me in my soul. I think probably the same.

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Speaker 2: And you know, for any of us who do these

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Speaker 2: jobs where the air gets a little thinner as you

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Speaker 2: get higher, gets a little more lonely, there's few and

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Speaker 2: farther of us in between. Your own ambition can be

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Speaker 2: just as terrifying as anything else, because you can really

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Speaker 2: can take over so much of your life, just so much.

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Speaker 2: It just it's like what can get in my way? Nothing?

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Speaker 2: You know, But I'm the one who has to pump

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Speaker 2: the brakes something and it turns out that's scary for me.

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Speaker 2: Are we already at the naked part? I'm uncomfortable. Wait

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Speaker 2: a second, like my heart is beating. Creation has said

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Speaker 2: that my heart is beating too hard. It's true. Our

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Speaker 2: expectations are bonkers for ourselves, scary.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking on the way over here, true story,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to ask her this question, and I was

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Speaker 1: kind of dancing around things that I was going to

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Speaker 1: say I was scared of. I wasn't going to be

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Speaker 1: completely naked with you, and then I said, well, fuck it.

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Speaker 1: You know this is what I'm afraid of. I am

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Speaker 1: truly terrified of my expert.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, you've also seen me in some moments too,

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Speaker 2: so we have like some interesting bonding that we've done

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Speaker 2: on set. I think that what it is about ambition,

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Speaker 2: especially here we are we're a post Obama, we're a

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Speaker 2: post integration, post multiculturalism, post wokeism. A generation and you

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Speaker 2: feel two things at once that nothing can stop you everything,

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Speaker 2: your ancestors. Did you are their wildest dreams? You know

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Speaker 2: what I mean? When I was watching you do the

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Speaker 2: what's the sports thing? Alos, I was like this, this

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Speaker 2: is it, you know what I mean? Like these women

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Speaker 2: run it like doing everything you anchoring. It really felt

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Speaker 2: like such a moment when you think of how far

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Speaker 2: we as Black Americans would have come, and somehow the

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Speaker 2: things around us that feel like darker and more complex

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Speaker 2: make that freedom not always feel a sort of wind

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Speaker 2: swept as it could be. Do you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: I'm not explaining this correctly. This show is very effective.

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Speaker 2: There's something that is like I could do I could

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Speaker 2: do anything, and I could be anything, and then you

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Speaker 2: just death by a thousand powerpoints, you know, like the

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Speaker 2: various people who enter your life and kind of give

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Speaker 2: you these little reasons why this can't and this can't

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Speaker 2: and this cant and this can't, and it can. It

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Speaker 2: can just really wear you down.

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Speaker 1: It can. It can really not necessarily I want to

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Speaker 1: careful with the words that I use, but the higher

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Speaker 1: you a sin, the more that the more that becomes normal,

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Speaker 1: which really isn't normal, because you know, there are things

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Speaker 1: that we prayed for that we're doing right now that

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Speaker 1: sometimes feel burdensome. Yes, and and and and we don't

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Speaker 1: in the day to day of it really appreciate what

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Speaker 1: it is because we're in the thick of doing it,

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Speaker 1: and our expectations get bigger and bigger.

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Speaker 2: They do, and they do, and because there's always someone

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Speaker 2: out there who will have diminish expectations of you. That's right,

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Speaker 2: they're they're there, They're right there all the time, waiting.

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Speaker 2: And so you're caught between wanting to have more, wanting

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Speaker 2: to want more, feeling maybe you don't deserve it, like

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Speaker 2: maybe you should stop complaining. Maybe actually you have enough.

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Speaker 2: It's like it's a beast.

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Speaker 1: When I was not even necessarily but really starting out,

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Speaker 1: and I was in local news, and I I remember

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Speaker 1: going through a phase between going from local news to

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Speaker 1: working at the Tennis Channel to then ultimately going to ESPN,

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Speaker 1: and I would listen to MPR All Things Considered, and

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Speaker 1: I would hear this voice that felt very reassuring, really curious,

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Speaker 1: but also it felt as if I had to sit

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Speaker 1: up straight when I would be driving and it was you,

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Speaker 1: my friend, And I thought to myself, I didn't know

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Speaker 1: at the time, or this had to be twenty twelve,

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Speaker 1: twenty thirteen. I didn't know at the time whether you

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Speaker 1: were black or white. That never even entered my mind at.

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Speaker 2: That all the time. It never I did more when

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Speaker 2: I was starting out. Yeah, it would just never. The

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Speaker 2: beauty of what was being accomplished was such compelling storytelling

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Speaker 2: that you didn't care about the person in terms of

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Speaker 2: who they were and how they were raised. The facts

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Speaker 2: were there, the storytelling was there, and I'm just listening.

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Speaker 2: That was the beauty for me of all things considered.

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Speaker 1: Talk to me about what MPR National Public Radio for

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Speaker 1: those who don't know my audience should know, I'd be

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Speaker 1: disappointed if you didn't talk to me about the beauty

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Speaker 1: of and the sometimes that things that are not beautiful

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Speaker 1: of working there for so long.

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Speaker 2: I think that I grew up in Boston and then

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Speaker 2: was bussed in like a school integration program that was

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Speaker 2: voluntary and I just did it for a few years.

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Speaker 2: But what it did was instill this ability to like now,

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Speaker 2: all the young people say code switch, and I didn't

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Speaker 2: realize what that was until I had to be in

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Speaker 2: newsrooms and had to navigate the local language that is

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Speaker 2: news and it is its own language, you know, certain people.

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Speaker 2: I'd watched them pitch stories and it just seemed like

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Speaker 2: everything they said ended up on air, And meanwhile I

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Speaker 2: was there trying to explain, like well because and I

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Speaker 2: it took me a while to realize I had to

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Speaker 2: learn the language. I think that one of the great

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Speaker 2: things about NPR was it was and is about curiosity.

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Speaker 2: That is its actual north star. And that's probably why

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Speaker 2: so many people hate it, because if you think something

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Speaker 2: is wrong, morally, physically, whatever it is, you're not curious

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Speaker 2: about it, and the people who are curious about it

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Speaker 2: are going to irritate the hell out of you, because

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Speaker 2: why are they entertaining this idea, Why are they platforming

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Speaker 2: this idea? Why are they pushing this idea? There's not

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Speaker 2: I think that our culture rewards definitiveness, and NPR, and

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Speaker 2: I know my training as a journalist didn't reward They

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Speaker 2: rewarded curiosity. And we're actually talking as just a few

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Speaker 2: weeks ago, Susan Stamberg, who was the first woman to

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Speaker 2: anchor a national news show and someone who helped me

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Speaker 2: when I was at MPR, she just passed away and

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Speaker 2: that was her hallmark was curiosity. She was not out

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Speaker 2: there trying to prove she was the shark in shark

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Speaker 2: infested waters, you know what I mean, Like she just

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Speaker 2: she just chose a completely different way to do the

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Speaker 2: job and do the work. And some people were really

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Speaker 2: irritated by that. When she first started out. She wasn't

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Speaker 2: authoritative enough, she wasn't this, she wasn't that, And luckily

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Speaker 2: she had a boss. I was like, I don't care.

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Speaker 2: I think she's great. And now I think you know

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Speaker 2: what that's like as well, Right for someone to look

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Speaker 2: at you and be like, no, no, no, there is

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Speaker 2: something here and I'm going to fight for you. And

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Speaker 2: what a great and wonderful moment that is. And I

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Speaker 2: just lucked out because I had a lot of people

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Speaker 2: like that at MPR. I heard nos all the time,

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Speaker 2: but at the right moments, people said, there's something here.

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Speaker 2: I don't quite know what it is, but like, let's say, yes.

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Speaker 1: Do you think working at MPR set you apart from

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Speaker 1: other journalists? I felt like there was If you're on TV,

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Speaker 1: you were a different type of journalist. Obviously are broadcast journalist,

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Speaker 1: but if that was your bread and butter, if that's

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Speaker 1: how you were raised, I don't necessarily know if you

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Speaker 1: were considered as serious you as in the TV journalist,

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Speaker 1: as someone who was a newspaper journalist, or someone who

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Speaker 1: was a radio journalist who worked for MPR. There was

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Speaker 1: a credibility that was often assigned to you without you

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Speaker 1: even I would think from the outside looking in, and

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Speaker 1: you earned it, but it was just given automatically.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I had to play catch up. Yeah, It's

404
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Speaker 2: like it was that news table and people start speaking French,

405
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Speaker 2: like everyone has been reading the New Yorker since they

406
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Speaker 2: were a kid. It's fully a class issue, but I

407
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Speaker 2: just happened to from my childhood have experienced that feeling

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Speaker 2: of being like, Okay, I'm in this environment where some

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Speaker 2: people have had way more advantage than me, and I'm

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Speaker 2: going to have to work three and four times as

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Speaker 2: hard to be considered as good. And I often joke

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Speaker 2: that I was kind of like to your point about perception,

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Speaker 2: I was like the bimbo of NPR and I'm like

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Speaker 2: the professor at CNN. You know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: By the way I was beautifully stated, honestly, I mean.

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Speaker 2: Because you were like, you want to talk about music.

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Speaker 2: This is before NPR music, So it was you give

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Speaker 2: us culture, and yet Todd that doesn't mean anything, you know,

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Speaker 2: and and and then coming to TV and like still

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Speaker 2: wanting to talk about those things, but in a way

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Speaker 2: that's like too nerdy for TV. Uh, it's I can't

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Speaker 2: find my way caep I have. It's been it's been

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Speaker 2: an exciting journey and a challenge, which is great to

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Speaker 2: have a challenge at this point in my life. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: for sure, it does make you different because you don't

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Speaker 2: prioritize speed the way everybody else does. You don't prioritize

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Speaker 2: being first the way everybody else does. You can and do,

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Speaker 2: and plenty of people break news at NPR, but you know,

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Speaker 2: here at CNN, it's like being there first. It's breaking news.

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Speaker 2: It is the trusted name, the original breaking news. And like,

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Speaker 2: of course I don't fit, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Of course I'm a square peg, but that's okay. And

433
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 2: I think, however, it helps that i'm the age I am.

434
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 2: I think if I was a square peg in twenty six, yeah,

435
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 2: I would be bummed. Yeah, I would not fit. I

436
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 2: would flame out and I would not know what to

437
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 2: do and they wouldn't know what to do with me.

438
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,199
Speaker 2: But luckily I sort of you know, it's like a

439
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 2: person who gets their big break in their forties. It's

440
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 2: like you show up fully formed and there's kind of

441
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 2: less people can do to push you around because you're

442
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 2: just fully formed.

443
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: You know, I am who I am? I don't even

444
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,119
Speaker 1: know in order hard for you to shake my confidence.

445
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: You can try. You can't that part, but I'm just

446
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 1: this is me and that's all I am.

447
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 2: And that you can try. That shocked me because when

448
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 2: I was in my twenties and thirties, people tried all

449
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 2: the time and it worked. I just all the time

450
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 2: was my confidence would be shaken. I shouldn't be here.

451
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 2: What am I doing? This doesn't make any sense. I

452
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 2: guess I'm would have to blah blah blah blah blah.

453
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 2: But now that like I've had, you know, two kids,

454
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 2: and like I've been in my marriage for twenty years,

455
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 2: the stakes just feel different, you know what I mean?

456
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 2: Because all I can think of is like, am I

457
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 2: gonna remember this conversation? I get that. No, you should

458
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 2: probably wrap it up, thanks, you should probably get it going.

459
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 2: I don't have exactly the time.

460
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: Your opinion is noted and completely forget.

461
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'm not trying to make you fall in

462
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,199
Speaker 2: love with me, and I'm not trying to be the

463
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 2: sexy Angenoux in the office. I'm not even being on

464
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 2: TV now. The way I wear my hair, the way

465
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 2: I look, I just kind of feel like I'm not

466
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 2: trying to come hither my way through the process because

467
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 2: it's baked, like this is it, We're done, this is

468
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 2: it on arrival, and people kind of have to decide

469
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 2: if they're there for it or not. And the ultimate

470
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 2: compliment is when someone says something you just said, which

471
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 2: is like, what I remember is the story that you told,

472
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 2: because I don't need you to remember me at all,

473
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 2: but boy, do I want you to walk away and

474
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,719
Speaker 2: tell tell someone else the thing you just heard us

475
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 2: talking about.

476
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: What you just learned. And that was always the case,

477
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: never never ever missed. I always walked away feeling much

478
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 1: more educated, much more learned or informed about whatever it

479
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: may have been. Are you to make sure I'm right

480
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 1: on this first generation?

481
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I was born in Jamaica. Right now, we're

482
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 2: all watching the storm Hurricane Melissa and our WhatsApp groups,

483
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 2: both parents. I have no accent. Before anyone asks, I

484
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 2: have no other credentials other than my birth certificate.

485
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: And do you still have family there, Yeah, a lot

486
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: of cousins. How are they doing.

487
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 2: We're gonna find out. We're gonna find out in a

488
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 2: few hours. I mean, I think one thing, and I'm

489
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 2: even trying to convey this on air. Jamaica has a

490
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 2: lot of infrastructure. I've sort of heard people here and

491
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 2: there will say something like, oh, it's so difficult. There's

492
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 2: so many people in the resorts and shanty towns, and

493
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:46,199
Speaker 2: I'm just like, that's no, Like, there's infrastructure. There are

494
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 2: people who have They've been like vocal, a country that's

495
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 2: very vocal about climate change and its effects on the island,

496
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 2: and these bigger and bigger storms. They've tried to put

497
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 2: their telecommunications material like underground. There's all kinds of stuff

498
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 2: they've tried to do. But we're now in an era

499
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 2: where a storm can appear kind of out of nowhere,

500
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 2: reached two hundred miles an hour and still park for

501
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 2: multiple days. These behaviors are different, and so I think,

502
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, this is kind of wound up. It's like

503
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 2: in the back of my mind all the time that

504
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 2: the island is facing kind of a cataclysmic event, and

505
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 2: I'm not sure in a real crisis if the US

506
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 2: would help.

507
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 1: By the time this airs, we will have known what

508
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: has happened in Jamaica, but there still will be time

509
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 1: for us to know if in fact the US will help,

510
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: Which leads me to my next question, how do you

511
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: feel about the America you know now? Is it any

512
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: different from the America you knew ten years ago, fifteen

513
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: years ago, twenty years ago.

514
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 2: It's closer to the America I knew pre Obama, that's

515
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 2: for sure, you know. But at the same time, it's

516
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 2: a little bit more familiar because I remember both during

517
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 2: the election of Barack Obama and later during what we

518
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 2: all call now as the Awokening, And if you haven't

519
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 2: start calling it that, there were moments yeah, when you

520
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 2: looked around and you were like, oh, okay, are we

521
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 2: not racist? Now we're making the watchmen? What's going on? Like?

522
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 2: It wasn't clear what had kind of kicked off that

523
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 2: particular reckoning and how long it would last. So to me,

524
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 2: I sort of had this sense of like another shoe

525
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 2: was going to drop, because I'm by nature cynical, and

526
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 2: now that shoe has dropped, and there's so much language

527
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 2: and policy and politics that are about rolling back the

528
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 2: last five years, so very directly in executive order that

529
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 2: says thou shalt not use this word or that word

530
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 2: and not pay contractors who espouse these beliefs. Okay, that's

531
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 2: like a direct thing. But then even a further project

532
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 2: that undermines universities and says and also, do you really

533
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 2: need afro am studies in women's studies? Do you really

534
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 2: are these things actually hostile to America? Like it is

535
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 2: rolling back even further some of those things that in

536
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 2: some circles were considered cultural gains when we all thought

537
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 2: we were on a glide path towards multiculturalism as an

538
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 2: unmitigated good to be valued, whereas now multiculturalism is often

539
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 2: described in the context of disturbing the history and peace

540
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 2: of the mainstream culture. Right, it is a destabilizing thing.

541
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 2: Immigrants are destabilizing by nature. That's the language we live

542
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 2: with now, and it is language that is most foremost

543
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 2: more familiar to Americans throughout history than we realize. And

544
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 2: it's because we've all had this experience of Obama awokening

545
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 2: all this stuff that it feels very like whiplash when

546
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 2: it's the default setting. It just someone like me had

547
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 2: hoped it wouldn't be the default setting, not because I'm

548
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,239
Speaker 2: just a default progressive or something like that, but I

549
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 2: am an immigrant, I am a black woman, like these

550
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 2: gains are what allowed me to be the person I

551
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 2: am today. And it's pretty disturbing to see how much

552
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: of that story people consider wrong.

553
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: I would think that we would be the rule and

554
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: not the exception to the rule. When we were having

555
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:50,719
Speaker 1: our racial renaissance, I could not think of our default

556
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: setting of what this country used to be like, and

557
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 1: for some reason, used to felt like a long time

558
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: ago to me. It didn't feel like the sixties or

559
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: the fifties. It felt yeah, it felt like eighteen hundreds.

560
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln. Oh, that was so long ago. It felt

561
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,719
Speaker 1: so long ago. Especially growing up in California. I didn't

562
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: know that no or was a part of the vocabulary

563
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: or racism California. I have to be honest. I grew

564
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: up in Pasady, in a, Los Angeles primarily, and it's

565
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: just a it's a melting pot. And if in fact,

566
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 1: people do feel a way about you, you don't know it. Yeah,

567
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: you just don't know it because it's not considered, you know,

568
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: in style. And we all had to work with one another.

569
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: So fast forward to where we are today. I think

570
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: that I was really shocked. But what also scares me

571
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: when we talked about being scared, is a racure. Yeah,

572
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: I'm truly terrified that the progress that we've seen, you

573
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: and I have been a part of that it may

574
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: not ever be remembered. What the history, the history that

575
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: has been accomplished, be erased forever. And I know I

576
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: might be dramatic in thinking that, but I can talk

577
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: to people today, young people today, and they really don't

578
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: have an understanding of what's happening. And so if you

579
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: don't really have that oral understanding or even that I'm

580
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: reading a book understanding, how do you keep it in play?

581
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 2: Do you ever.

582
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: Wonder about the erasing of history, more specifically African American

583
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: history in this country.

584
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 2: I think that the truth has a way of coming out,

585
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 2: and I think that if there's one people that have

586
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 2: found a way to tell their story in spite of

587
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 2: things that are thrown at them, it is Black American

588
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 2: specifically and the people of color who come to reside

589
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 2: in the US that finding a way for us to

590
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 2: tell our stories. It's just the way it is, and

591
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 2: it was the same thing with white ethnic groups, by

592
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 2: the way, right, telling the Italian story, telling the Irish

593
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 2: American story. Those things didn't go away just because people

594
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 2: at the time said your American now stopped talking about

595
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 2: where you came from and who you are. That is meaningless.

596
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 2: All those communities were turned the same patrolled the same thing,

597
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,240
Speaker 2: and based on my growing up in Boston, that didn't

598
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 2: stop them. So I think that that's one thing is

599
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 2: like we are especially going forward in the age of

600
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 2: ai story and authenticity of story and telling story, and

601
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 2: like that's that's going to be meaningful and having conversations

602
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 2: is still going to be meaningful. And we have a

603
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 2: you know, a Grio tradition right like you and I

604
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 2: are telling this story now. The other thing I want

605
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 2: to say is that it may be a wake up call,

606
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 2: not being woke, but I wake up for the generations

607
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 2: that had felt pretty comfortable where they were in the culture.

608
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 2: And that's probably not a bad thing, you know. I

609
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 2: think one of the reasons hearing your background is sort

610
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 2: of intriguing because even though my family isn't from the US,

611
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: they came to Boston in the late seventies early eighties,

612
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 2: So this is right after the bussing crisis, So there

613
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 2: was a visceral understanding of what ethnic white ethnic tensions

614
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 2: in a modern setting could look like. Because a photograph

615
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 2: had been all over the newspapers of a man trying

616
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 2: to spear a protester with the American flag, and that

617
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 2: wasn't an image from the sixties or the late fifties, right,

618
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 2: that was seventy eight, seventy nine. And I think that

619
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 2: when I covered the Obama election, I was covering it

620
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 2: in the South. I was based in Nashville, so I

621
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 2: was constantly talking to older black voters who were telling me,

622
00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 2: you don't understand what a big deal this is. Street

623
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 2: to your point, I'm only close to it because I

624
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 2: actually it was like part of my job to be

625
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,439
Speaker 2: close to it. And I think that's why I had

626
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 2: a little bit more, as I said, cynicism, because I

627
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 2: know the generation that has fought some of these same battles,

628
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 2: they're still walking around, you know what I mean, Like

629
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 2: they're still like, yes, they're reaching the age where some

630
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 2: of them are starting to pass. But like we only

631
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 2: talk about the first who to do something. We don't

632
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 2: talk about the second, the third, the fourth, to twentieth

633
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 2: and the stresses they went through, they became our aunts

634
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 2: and uncles and grandparents. The same way all those people

635
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 2: who threw rocks at buses and complained about the National

636
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 2: Guard coming to escort black children to school, their parents

637
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 2: and aunts and uncles and grandparents were out there. So

638
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 2: to me, it's all just way more present than we

639
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 2: want to admit. And it's how to talk about it

640
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 2: that's become really complex because we have more ways to

641
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 2: talk about it, and yet we are worse at talking

642
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 2: about it in so many ways, you know what I mean.

643
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 2: And I'm part of the problem. Like being on TV

644
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 2: doing a chat show, doing a panel politics things, I

645
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 2: just have days where I'm like, I don't know if

646
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 2: there's a good way to do this. I actually don't

647
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 2: know if baked into the structure of this is something

648
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 2: that is like kind of toxic. But I also know

649
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 2: that maybe it's a good thing that I'm here to

650
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 2: sit and have this conversation the way I would have

651
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,240
Speaker 2: it versus the way someone would have had it fifteen

652
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 2: years ago.

653
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 1: You have a show CNN this morning you all should

654
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:51,399
Speaker 1: be watching six am Eastern Standard time, and you have

655
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 1: something that I like, this idea and you've really been

656
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 1: able to connect with audiences with your panel or you

657
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: do this, let's see what the chat things right? And

658
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: when you talk about the group chat, do you feel

659
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: like that allows us to all share our thoughts? Oftentimes

660
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,439
Speaker 1: I've noticed that people will go on these shows they

661
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: I mean, this will be anybody.

662
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 2: They'll have I've done it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we all do.

663
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: We have our own thoughts. But when you when you

664
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 1: make it so so simple, as if I was in

665
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 1: a group chat with someone and they said they've wanted

666
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: to talk about I don't know, you know, the you know,

667
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 1: the shutdown or the big beautiful bill or whatever it

668
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 1: would be, I would say, I don't know, tell me

669
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,399
Speaker 1: your thoughts. You've created that environment on your show, which

670
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: is the person sitting at home, which is the person

671
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:41,439
Speaker 1: who wants to say, wait, what does that really mean?

672
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: You've created that type of environment. Was that your plan

673
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 1: going in when you were told that this would be

674
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 1: your show?

675
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 2: It was, But it's only that I've done it longer

676
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 2: I've realized it was not a good plan, because you know,

677
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 2: I think one of the difference between linear television and

678
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 2: social media and in podcasting is we're allowed to think

679
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 2: out loud right now. There's a possibility I'll be wrong,

680
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 2: there's a possibility you'll be wrong. But we're in a

681
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 2: good faith conversation that neither of us are trying to

682
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 2: tear each other apart in that process. We're actually trying

683
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 2: to build the story together. And TV is not like that.

684
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 2: It's it's in a way can be quite adversarial, even

685
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 2: in the most chummy of environments, and it does not

686
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 2: necessarily reward thinking out loud, especially politics. That's simply another

687
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 2: way for someone to score a point against you. And

688
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 2: so there's a kind of there can be not always,

689
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 2: but there can be a kind of uncharitable way of talking.

690
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 2: And I think what I tried to say to people

691
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 2: is like, look, it's the morning. We ain't fighting. It's

692
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,720
Speaker 2: too early too what I mean, it's just too early

693
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 2: no one I know. Can I swear on this show?

694
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 2: Yes you can. It's like it's too early for that

695
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 2: ship with Audi Cornish.

696
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 1: Yes exactly. By the way, that should be the title,

697
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: the shit that should be the title.

698
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 2: I have a couple, there's this again, there's one thing

699
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 2: after another, the like, but you have I don't know, Audi.

700
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: I think I I I want to and I'm necessary

701
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 1: of saying I'm disagreeing, but I used to.

702
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 2: Tell me you're on more shows than me, so you

703
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 2: know what it's like when you have to kind of

704
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:25,720
Speaker 2: sit up straight and yeah, it's.

705
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: Too much tension, it's too much pressure. People are trying

706
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: to go viral.

707
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, you want to talk to each other like. It's

708
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 2: a weird environment. It's a very weird environment.

709
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: But you've created for me at least an environment where

710
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 1: it's okay to say, you know what, I really don't

711
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: know because I have heard over and over again walking

712
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 1: down the street. I'm sure you have people like I

713
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 1: want to ask a question I'm just curious about And

714
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 1: as we started this conversation, Uh, what I said your

715
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 1: superpower was, and what I really love about myself as

716
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: well as a journalist is that I'm just naturally curious.

717
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 1: I am curious, and so the why is never ridiculous

718
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 1: to me. I'm curious what do you mean by that?

719
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: Because I find that the more that you push and

720
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,280
Speaker 1: you ask more questions, the person that is doesn't always

721
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,399
Speaker 1: have the answer once you really dig deep, they too

722
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 1: are still learning it and understanding it and processing it.

723
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:15,240
Speaker 1: So I think it's a beautiful thing.

724
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 2: And they want to be heard. Yeah, that is the

725
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 2: biggest thing I've learned about becoming a more public figure

726
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 2: because at NPR people just didn't recognize me the way

727
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 2: they can physically recognize me now. And I too will

728
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 2: say to someone I'm like, oh, say more, what do

729
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 2: you mean by that? Why are you asking that? And

730
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 2: inevitably you get to the reason why. That's their animating question,

731
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 2: and that is far more revealing than me answering the question,

732
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 2: you know, and so many people out here they just

733
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 2: want someone to hear them. And it's really profound. Is

734
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 2: it's almost at the heart of every story I do,

735
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 2: where the story is really my choice, right, not just

736
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 2: like hey, it's the government shut down, but like things

737
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 2: I do on my podcast, somewhere at the heart of

738
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,920
Speaker 2: the story as someone who's like, I wish people understood X,

739
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 2: and it is like it's it is the most heartbreaking

740
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 2: thing for me in my work that people don't understand

741
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 2: is there, But like I know it's there, is like

742
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 2: wanting people just wishing that someone really understood them.

743
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 1: I will, I will, I will end with this because

744
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 1: I know you have to go and oh.

745
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 2: My god, Carrie. No, I could just be on here

746
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 2: talking to you forever a week because I'm bad at

747
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 2: lightning once. But can I ask a question? Ever, since

748
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 2: we're getting to the end, why did you want to

749
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,919
Speaker 2: do a show called Naked? And I asked this because

750
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 2: number one, you're beautiful and I do. No, I'm not

751
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:43,879
Speaker 2: saying this in a mean spirited way. We're just doing

752
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 2: it objectively, Like was there did you play with the

753
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 2: ideas of like sex, sexuality, your image, but also where

754
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 2: you wanted to go in the conversation sort of like

755
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 2: what was the thinking there?

756
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting that you say that I have

757
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 1: grown up. I think as all of my friends tell me,

758
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 1: I have a tomboy nature because I don't.

759
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 2: I don't really access pretty privilege. I feel like people

760
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 2: will tell me. I had to figure this out in

761
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 2: my you know, mid twenties. I was like, oh, I

762
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 2: am because I you know, I didn't grow up. My

763
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 2: mother raised me to think you're so smart. You're so smart.

764
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 2: It wasn't ever about the the the looks or the

765
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 2: Esturian athlete, right, Yeah, Like your physicality has a difference.

766
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: It's different. It didn't feel like sexual or it didn't

767
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: feel sexy or whatever you want to say. But I

768
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 1: think naked came about in twenty twenty when we were

769
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,320
Speaker 1: in what I called that that that racial renaissance where

770
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 1: we were understanding everything that was going on in this country,

771
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: and I felt, for the very first time, just as

772
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: an adult, like, oh wow, people really care about what

773
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 1: is going on in the world and why people are marginalized,

774
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 1: and they want to talk about it and it's not

775
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 1: fair and they're listening, and so I have. I had

776
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: lived my life, especially in front of the camera, being

777
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: very careful about what I said and how I looked

778
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 1: and how I presented, and I just wanted to not

779
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: do that. I wanted to take.

780
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 2: My earrings off, or my shoes off, or my bra off,

781
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 2: you know, last when you get really relaxed, right and

782
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 2: you want to just that was the visual of just

783
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 2: being relaxed and being very honest, just as I said,

784
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 2: what scares you? Like?

785
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 1: That's that question? Saying it out loud is extremely vulnerable,

786
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 1: And that is when I realize vulnerability is a superpower.

787
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: Growing up as a black woman, you don't realize that

788
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 1: being vulnerable is powerful, and you're always taught to be strong,

789
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: and I just.

790
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 2: Get rewarded for the opposite.

791
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, correct, correct, And that's what I've been trying to do,

792
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 1: and that's a lifelong struggle. I lean into vulnerability, but

793
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 1: then I sometimes you know, jump back, you know, if

794
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 1: in fact, I feel like I can't be rewarded for

795
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:44,760
Speaker 1: being vulnerable, I go back to putting on a mask,

796
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: if you will, in certain environments. And my hope is

797
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: that I can always have someone come on and they

798
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: can be a little vulnerable. So I appreciate you for

799
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 1: doing that.

800
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 2: For you saying I think you get there, I mean,

801
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:58,319
Speaker 2: just as someone who's a listener, I often joke that

802
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,359
Speaker 2: the intimacy that we're all driving for and that now

803
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 2: people commodify as podcasters, it's not an easy thing to achieve.

804
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,399
Speaker 2: It's not actually just talking, you know what I mean.

805
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 2: Just talking is how's the weather? That ain't what we're doing,

806
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. And I think that's why

807
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 2: a lot of celebrity podcasts work is it's a shortcut,

808
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 2: you know, And we're at the point where it's so

809
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 2: hard to get people to talk in a way that

810
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 2: feels kind of authentic and real that you have to

811
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 2: like apply them with hot sauce, you know what I mean,

812
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 2: or like bring them into a chicken shot, like you

813
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 2: have to do all of these things just to disarm

814
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 2: people from their media training, because being vulnerable is cringe

815
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 2: and a political punishment point. And you know, I think

816
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 2: I just want to say to people out there who

817
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 2: are listening. And I don't know if what other kind

818
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:52,359
Speaker 2: of show I'd get to say this on, But like

819
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 2: if you did spend the Awokening or these last couple

820
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 2: of years opening your eyes to the world in a

821
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 2: different way, it's okay. You don't have to backpedal. You

822
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,720
Speaker 2: don't have to back away from your own growth because

823
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: it's uncool. That's actually this is the real part, Like

824
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 2: the part where like Pelosi wears a dai shiki. That's

825
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 2: the easy.

826
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 1: And no one just time out. No one asked for

827
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 1: that one.

828
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,439
Speaker 2: I didn't ask for do eyeshadow shades. I didn't ask

829
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 2: for special colored band aids we had. There are some

830
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 2: pretty specific things we won't go into that we did

831
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 2: ask for, that we didn't ask for, we didn't need it.

832
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:36,280
Speaker 2: One interesting thing that happened was like the even people

833
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 2: in my own life who came to me and said,

834
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 2: you know, I've really been thinking about how we grew

835
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 2: up or I've really been thinking about this or that,

836
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 2: and like, I'm starting to understand some things better. And

837
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 2: I wish we had talked about it in the past

838
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 2: and that was special, that was real, that was special.

839
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 2: Were there moments where it was cringey and weird? Sure

840
00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 2: you don't do that, but like, guess what that lesson

841
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 2: got learned? You know what I mean? Like that's a

842
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 2: good thing. Don't back away from those things, correct, because

843
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 2: that's how you raise a generation of kids who are

844
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 2: seeing what we're doing now. You know, they're in their

845
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 2: text chains joking about Hitler, like get it together. You know,

846
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 2: there's no need to do all that. There's really no

847
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 2: need for that kind of backsliding out of fear. And

848
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 2: I realize there are so many people who do talk

849
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 2: about fearfulness right now, and it's a way different scale

850
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 2: from what all y'all comedians were saying about cancel culture.

851
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 2: This is different the kind of fear we're talking about.

852
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 2: And I just hope that like people who are the

853
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 2: kind of people who would listen to your show, in

854
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 2: my opinion, are the kind of people I want to say,

855
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 2: hold on to your heart, hold on to your cringe,

856
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,439
Speaker 2: hold on to your earnestness, hold on to that part

857
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 2: of you that got opened up. You know what I mean?

858
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 2: Like we all we need that, We need it, and

859
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 2: we need that for what's ahead. Even if it feels

860
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 2: like a small thing listening to a show or whatever,

861
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 2: if it's doing the work of keeping you moving forward

862
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 2: and growing, keep doing it.

863
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, I hope you enjoyed that interview. Before I

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Speaker 1: let you go, I think and I'm going to start

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00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,399
Speaker 1: doing something and I don't know how consistently I can

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Speaker 1: do it, but at the end of each podcast, I

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Speaker 1: want to give a bit of a recap on what

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Speaker 1: I learned. I used to do this on my old podcast,

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00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 1: where it was like what did I learn? And then

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Speaker 1: I'm going to also, maybe I don't know how to

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00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: say this, maybe I'll tell you something about a cultural

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00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:30,720
Speaker 1: what the kid say moment? What the kids say moment.

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Speaker 1: So what I learned is, first, Audie Cornish is really

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Speaker 1: truly a good person, and you want to see good

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Speaker 1: people win. And what I mean by that it sounds

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Speaker 1: very simple. It sounds like, okay, well, what does that

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Speaker 1: mean I'm a good person? No, it just means that

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Speaker 1: she really takes her craft seriously and she wants to

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Speaker 1: tell stories that educate and entertain and hopefully allow you

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Speaker 1: to feel as if you can be better, learn more,

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Speaker 1: share the story, whatever it may be. She really does

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Speaker 1: do that. And the story that I shared was when

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Speaker 1: I was doing a CNN panel with her. She was hosting,

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Speaker 1: she was filling in for Abby, and she was so

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Speaker 1: smart that she was making some of the guests intimidated

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Speaker 1: and they didn't like how quick witted she was or

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Speaker 1: how she made them feel, and they felt inferior. And

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Speaker 1: so during the commercial break, because stuff gets stank during

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00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: the commercial break, I'm telling you we need a show

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Speaker 1: called commercial Breaks, because behind the scenes, the bts, the

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00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 1: commercial break is when the should go down. And she

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Speaker 1: handled herself so well. She really truly did. So that's

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Speaker 1: what I learned today. How do you thank you so

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00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 1: much for coming on the show? Really do appreciate you

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Speaker 1: for taking the time out. Meanwhile, for folks at home

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Speaker 1: who want to hear more from Audi, you can. She

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Speaker 1: is the host of CNN podcast The Assignment and the

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Speaker 1: anchor of CNN This Morning, airing weekday six to seven

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Speaker 1: am Eastern and streaming in the CNN app. You can

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Speaker 1: visit CNN dot com Forward slash All Access for more.

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00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 1: Appreciate you all. Season five underway. We are doing well, y'all.

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00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 1: We are doing our well thing, and I appreciate y'all

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00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:09,399
Speaker 1: for subscribing and listening. Even if you nice nasty go

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00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: in and leave a comment which a nice nasty ass.

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Speaker 1: Talk to y'all next week. Naked Sports written and executive

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00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 1: produced by me Carrie Champion, produced by Jacquise Thomas, sound

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00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 1: designed and mastered by Dwayne Crawford. Naked Sports is a

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Speaker 1: part of the Black Effect podcast Network in iHeartMedia