1
00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:05,399
Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.

2
00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:09,720
Speaker 2: Hi honey, Hello, Hello, what you got from me?

3
00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been looking at ways to up upgrade my

4
00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,720
Speaker 3: scaring game, you're what? We have this thing. We have

5
00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:18,799
Speaker 3: this game that we've played on't where ice.

6
00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:21,439
Speaker 2: It's fun, such a fun game because you.

7
00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,360
Speaker 3: Actually marriage to scale me. Okay, and I'm going to

8
00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:25,680
Speaker 3: try and have to get I'm going to have to

9
00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:26,560
Speaker 3: get more creative.

10
00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,680
Speaker 2: So what he's saying is is that we have I

11
00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,440
Speaker 2: have scared him more times than he has scared me.

12
00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:35,959
Speaker 2: We like to well, I've only done it.

13
00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:37,360
Speaker 3: Do you believe that statement?

14
00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:43,279
Speaker 2: Yes? I do, because illusion eventually we will do a

15
00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:46,839
Speaker 2: He's he has this thing where he records trying to

16
00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,800
Speaker 2: scare me. But I know now where he is when

17
00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:51,960
Speaker 2: he's doing like I just know, like when it's quiet,

18
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:53,720
Speaker 2: I know that he's most likely going to be around

19
00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:57,320
Speaker 2: door number one. So and then my first thing is

20
00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,279
Speaker 2: I'll walk into a room many times that he has

21
00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,960
Speaker 2: these recordings. I'm looking now for the phone to be like,

22
00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,280
Speaker 2: I know you're right there, and the other day you

23
00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,600
Speaker 2: had you had it facing where I could actually see

24
00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,000
Speaker 2: myself as opposed to facing it the other way. Now,

25
00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,000
Speaker 2: I was like, Alan, really, do you.

26
00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,319
Speaker 3: Want to tell him about the laundering room one? Which

27
00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:18,880
Speaker 3: one the one that I told you I asked you

28
00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:20,959
Speaker 3: I can collect my water bottle from the laundry room

29
00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:22,600
Speaker 3: because you thought I was in the gym.

30
00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:24,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the one that actually scared me.

31
00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,440
Speaker 3: Actually, I think you might yourself a little bit.

32
00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:30,959
Speaker 2: That one was scary, but you didn't get that one

33
00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:31,479
Speaker 2: on camera.

34
00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,880
Speaker 3: But anyway, my point is I'm starting to step up,

35
00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:40,039
Speaker 3: so I.

36
00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,640
Speaker 2: Know how I feel about that, Like for what is like,

37
00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,200
Speaker 2: what is the purpose of this? Because I've only scared

38
00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:50,440
Speaker 2: you now twice and I stopped because I'm like, you know, it's.

39
00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,560
Speaker 3: Because I'm competitive. It's getting to the point where you're walking.

40
00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:55,600
Speaker 2: You're doing it because I'm now, you're not scaring this.

41
00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,000
Speaker 2: So every time you try, it's like you've now you

42
00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:02,520
Speaker 2: have about fifteen fails and so you're do so okay.

43
00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,920
Speaker 2: So the point is, because you haven't scared me, You're

44
00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:06,480
Speaker 2: going to continue till you can scare me.

45
00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:08,800
Speaker 3: And I'm going to get it on camera because it's

46
00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:12,359
Speaker 3: annoying me that So what happens is the house goes silent, right.

47
00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,320
Speaker 2: If the kids are in bed, The best one was

48
00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,720
Speaker 2: Jay's because Mommy, come in here. Alan's not going to

49
00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,560
Speaker 2: scare you. And I said, thanks, baby, Alan, get away

50
00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:21,880
Speaker 2: from the.

51
00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:23,480
Speaker 3: Door underneath the bed.

52
00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:26,760
Speaker 2: I was like this sweet. I was like, you're such

53
00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,160
Speaker 2: my little boy, Mommy. It's okay, you can come in.

54
00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:30,280
Speaker 2: Alan won't scary.

55
00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:36,320
Speaker 3: I love his under the bed for fourteen minutes.

56
00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:41,640
Speaker 2: Literally, or like when romans like stomach will gurgle and

57
00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:42,960
Speaker 2: like you're holding him and I'm like.

58
00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:44,919
Speaker 3: By Alan, oh my ankles will click.

59
00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,200
Speaker 2: Okay, but go ahead. So you're doing this because do

60
00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:48,680
Speaker 2: you want to.

61
00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,639
Speaker 3: Oh, it's got to the point now where if the

62
00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,960
Speaker 3: kids are in bed and the house is silent, and

63
00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:57,160
Speaker 3: I try and hide, you're you're actually like trying to

64
00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,440
Speaker 3: see from there. You're trying to send he from there.

65
00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,480
Speaker 3: So therefore you're walking around thinking he's beying that door,

66
00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:04,440
Speaker 3: he's buying that door. You step up.

67
00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:09,560
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you one thing that's where you

68
00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:15,440
Speaker 2: will find yourself in a hotel room if anything involves

69
00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,200
Speaker 2: you going out. Because one of my worst fares when

70
00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,880
Speaker 2: I'm home alone and I you know, we have a

71
00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,840
Speaker 2: very wooded area behind our backyard. I think like a

72
00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:28,080
Speaker 2: movie and a true Crime Brain, which is very exciting

73
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,600
Speaker 2: because we have a true crime podcaster coming on for

74
00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,800
Speaker 2: today's show. So this leads so well into this. But

75
00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,680
Speaker 2: I like, when you're out of town, I have these

76
00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:43,640
Speaker 2: like terrible visions or thoughts of from you know, even

77
00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:45,400
Speaker 2: just think, Okay, I can be in a shower and

78
00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,640
Speaker 2: what if someone comes around the corner and then I

79
00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,480
Speaker 2: get this is where I die or murdered or paranoia.

80
00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,120
Speaker 3: It's not an over I'm assive.

81
00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,400
Speaker 2: But I just I, you know I. And then we

82
00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,520
Speaker 2: have our entire wooded it's all wooded in the back,

83
00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:10,080
Speaker 2: so trees, and it's when we have no windows like cover,

84
00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:11,320
Speaker 2: like privacy.

85
00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,320
Speaker 3: You're creating a very easy pictchre for creepy people.

86
00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,919
Speaker 2: Then maybe right, but I'm just saying, like, yes, we

87
00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,159
Speaker 2: will find you. And there are cameras, so I want

88
00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,640
Speaker 2: to say that, but I still have that image where

89
00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,960
Speaker 2: because there aren't shades, I have this fear where I'm

90
00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:27,280
Speaker 2: going to look out one night and I'm going to

91
00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,640
Speaker 2: see like a person standing there and I swear to

92
00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:31,680
Speaker 2: God if that is you one of those nights, I

93
00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,120
Speaker 2: will like I will just send you your like throw

94
00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,360
Speaker 2: your keys out the door and a little duffel bag

95
00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,360
Speaker 2: because you were not welcome back in the house. If

96
00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,200
Speaker 2: you do that, I can't handle that.

97
00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,960
Speaker 3: The lifelike masks on Amazon, I will one of them

98
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:47,360
Speaker 3: is even get real stubble.

99
00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:52,760
Speaker 2: And seriously like it does a big no. Can we

100
00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:57,000
Speaker 2: just do what you've been doing recently, the half attempts

101
00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,000
Speaker 2: of trying to scare me. I just couldn't do that.

102
00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,039
Speaker 2: But it's really sweet that you want to.

103
00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,919
Speaker 3: It's just it's just a funny game because there's no

104
00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:07,680
Speaker 3: go out to the point where you're laughing at me

105
00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:12,520
Speaker 3: because I can't scare you. Yes, so I'm gonna have

106
00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:13,320
Speaker 3: to be creative.

107
00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,400
Speaker 2: Well, I can't say you did something and I can

108
00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,719
Speaker 2: tell you. We can tell you guys the following week.

109
00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:25,880
Speaker 2: But he did something that involved wearing a mask. But

110
00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,760
Speaker 2: again we can't say how or where, but we can

111
00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:31,960
Speaker 2: tell you next week. So stay tuned.

112
00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:33,520
Speaker 3: Well, Bedroom Secrets.

113
00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,040
Speaker 2: No, it involves with something that I'm not allowed to

114
00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:42,240
Speaker 2: say something, so but we can say how you tried

115
00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,720
Speaker 2: to scare me with a certain mask. But because I'm

116
00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:47,880
Speaker 2: not allowed to talk about it yet, I can't say

117
00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,120
Speaker 2: it anyway, So you don't even have You don't even know.

118
00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:52,600
Speaker 3: I thought even know what you're talking about.

119
00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:57,719
Speaker 2: Perfect you'll find out next week too. Anyway, speaking of

120
00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,760
Speaker 2: though we have today's episode, we've a true crime podcaster

121
00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:06,000
Speaker 2: coming on. It's a new show on iHeart Podcast. It's

122
00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:10,360
Speaker 2: called The Unborn, and I'm I'm a big true crime fan.

123
00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,640
Speaker 2: I love it. It's one of those things where I forget.

124
00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,040
Speaker 2: I forget how much I love it because there were

125
00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,200
Speaker 2: times when I used to listen to the dateline podcasts

126
00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,920
Speaker 2: all the time, and that's probably where my brain goes

127
00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:23,080
Speaker 2: to like the freaky stuff, and why I have such

128
00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,960
Speaker 2: a hard time with We watch a lot of those

129
00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,640
Speaker 2: true crime documentaries on Netflix or any other streaming service,

130
00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:31,880
Speaker 2: but I have a hard time turning my brain off

131
00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:33,360
Speaker 2: from it, which is why I'm like, all right, babe,

132
00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,960
Speaker 2: let's watch the Kardashians now for the next hour. But

133
00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,720
Speaker 2: I am hooked on this Unborn podcast now. It's so good.

134
00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:43,840
Speaker 2: Do you like true crime?

135
00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,440
Speaker 3: I love I love true crime, and I'm actually intrigued

136
00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,200
Speaker 3: because Tresha has got a background and film and TV.

137
00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,560
Speaker 3: So why she's decided they've decided to make this a

138
00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,520
Speaker 3: podcast and not a movie or a TV show, Well

139
00:06:58,520 --> 00:06:59,159
Speaker 3: that striegues me.

140
00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, let's get our guest, Tricia la Fash

141
00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,360
Speaker 2: coming on. She is the podcast host of the new

142
00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:10,320
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio show called Unborn, the true crime series. It's a

143
00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:11,800
Speaker 2: true story. Let's get her on.

144
00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:28,880
Speaker 4: Hi, guys, Hi, how are you nice to meet you?

145
00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:30,440
Speaker 4: I'm Tricia, I'm Jana.

146
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:35,080
Speaker 2: This is Alan. Alan lovely to meet you and chat

147
00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,320
Speaker 2: with you, and we'll just hop right in because I

148
00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,920
Speaker 2: just finished episode three when I need to know when

149
00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,559
Speaker 2: episode four is coming because I'm like a true crime girl,

150
00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:45,679
Speaker 2: and I was just saying, how I like, my brain

151
00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:47,960
Speaker 2: just always goes to like when I'm home alone, I'm

152
00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,800
Speaker 2: like that true crime Like I'm always freaking out and

153
00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,400
Speaker 2: I'm just he was like, no, that's paranoia. But either way,

154
00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,760
Speaker 2: like it's still I just get so sucked into these

155
00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,800
Speaker 2: things and then it's just wild. In this story, I'm like,

156
00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,640
Speaker 2: how has this not been made into like a Lifetime

157
00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:04,880
Speaker 2: movie yet? Like I'm like, I have we seen this

158
00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,080
Speaker 2: story because you've changed the name, so like I wanted

159
00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:09,480
Speaker 2: to google to see what happened, but I don't know

160
00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,440
Speaker 2: the actual names. So the people because of you're not

161
00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:13,680
Speaker 2: allowed to or what was that?

162
00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,480
Speaker 5: Well mine, you know, it was kind of my decision

163
00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,320
Speaker 5: because I was concerned.

164
00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,120
Speaker 4: I'm a true crime fanatic.

165
00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,000
Speaker 5: Like love, love, love, and I loved the process of

166
00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,679
Speaker 5: making this, and I was so intrigued by the story.

167
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,800
Speaker 5: I thought it was so compelling. It really was a

168
00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,480
Speaker 5: crime that I had never heard of before. You know,

169
00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,400
Speaker 5: similarly to like when Gypsy Rose Blanchard came on the

170
00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:42,160
Speaker 5: scene with Munchausen's this pseudosysis was not your normal cookie

171
00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,760
Speaker 5: cutter situation, but I had a lot of concern about

172
00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,319
Speaker 5: hurting somebody, you know, the woman.

173
00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:51,160
Speaker 4: Who did what she did.

174
00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:53,480
Speaker 5: You know, it was just kind of like a tightrope

175
00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:57,680
Speaker 5: situation where Jared wanted to tell his story and so

176
00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,720
Speaker 5: we wanted to help him tell it, but I just

177
00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,440
Speaker 5: wanted to make sure that we did it in a

178
00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:07,120
Speaker 5: way that it wouldn't readily identify her if she didn't

179
00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:08,319
Speaker 5: want to be identified.

180
00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:12,480
Speaker 2: I have a semi question around that, because I get

181
00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,240
Speaker 2: that piece of it, but also, is it known to

182
00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:16,439
Speaker 2: the public the story.

183
00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,480
Speaker 4: It's not. No one's ever written about it, nobody's.

184
00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:21,959
Speaker 2: Ever in the news. It wasn't in the news.

185
00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:23,040
Speaker 4: It wasn't in the news.

186
00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,200
Speaker 2: Okay, So okay, got it, gues. So it's not leading

187
00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,280
Speaker 2: to like Okay, got I gotta get it. But is

188
00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,520
Speaker 2: this is Jared's name made up too?

189
00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:32,080
Speaker 4: Yes, both of them.

190
00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:37,079
Speaker 5: He has actually since gone rogue and decided to tell

191
00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,560
Speaker 5: everybody it's him, so we'll see what happens with that.

192
00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,720
Speaker 4: But yes, it just fell into our laps.

193
00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,440
Speaker 5: I'm actually shocked that nobody ever wrote anything about this,

194
00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:55,400
Speaker 5: but obviously, you know, we were just so fascinated by

195
00:09:55,480 --> 00:10:00,680
Speaker 5: it and really spoke to him. I it wasn't more

196
00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:06,560
Speaker 5: than two days after everything happened, and we wanted to,

197
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,600
Speaker 5: you know, tell this story and just thought it was

198
00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:14,680
Speaker 5: so wild. And also, you know, since you've heard episode three,

199
00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,280
Speaker 5: we also talked to you know, a psychologist about what

200
00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:22,800
Speaker 5: could cause this because we have never We've done so

201
00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,760
Speaker 5: much research in the past four years and tried to

202
00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,960
Speaker 5: get in touch with so many doctors and nurses and

203
00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:34,360
Speaker 5: and no one has ever heard of somebody taking it

204
00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:35,120
Speaker 5: this far.

205
00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:36,920
Speaker 4: It's it's heard of.

206
00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:45,320
Speaker 5: As you hear another pseudosciesist survivor on episode three, she

207
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,520
Speaker 5: you know, is a really smart girl who has a

208
00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:52,000
Speaker 5: lot of support and she she really couldn't understand why

209
00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,760
Speaker 5: her body was not listening to what the information was

210
00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:58,440
Speaker 5: coming into her head.

211
00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:02,560
Speaker 4: And you know we we haven't spoken to Christy.

212
00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:04,480
Speaker 5: I would love to speak to her if she ever

213
00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,480
Speaker 5: wanted to talk to us, uh, to hear her side

214
00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:07,760
Speaker 5: of it.

215
00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:09,520
Speaker 4: But yeah, that's the.

216
00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:11,760
Speaker 2: Thing, like I that's the side too, And I was

217
00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,520
Speaker 2: telling Alan earlier. I'm like, man, I just I would

218
00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:16,520
Speaker 2: love to hear the other side of it as well,

219
00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:21,160
Speaker 2: because it's hard to understand when you have It's kind

220
00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,080
Speaker 2: of like, all right, I have anxiety. He doesn't have anxiety,

221
00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,200
Speaker 2: So if he doesn't understand what it's like for someone

222
00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,120
Speaker 2: to have anxiety and then trying to so it's like

223
00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,280
Speaker 2: you want to almost hear the other person's side of

224
00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,880
Speaker 2: the story because it's so hard to understand. Like if

225
00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,440
Speaker 2: you went to the guy no and you didn't see

226
00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,560
Speaker 2: a baby in there, how did you then continue or

227
00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,320
Speaker 2: did you just not go to the appointments or like

228
00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,240
Speaker 2: that piece. I'm just like, I'm so confused about But

229
00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,920
Speaker 2: I also don't understand the mental aspect of the pseudo

230
00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,959
Speaker 2: I say it against posiis pseudosysis.

231
00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:55,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's like the confusing bit because I mean, this

232
00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,080
Speaker 5: is there's a lot more to the story that we have.

233
00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:00,360
Speaker 5: We will cover in the next four episode. It's because

234
00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:06,959
Speaker 5: they're seven. But she definitely had pseudocyesis in the sense

235
00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,960
Speaker 5: that her and I'll send you a picture of her

236
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:17,480
Speaker 5: as well. But her belly was fully looked like a

237
00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:18,520
Speaker 5: pregnant woman's belly.

238
00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,400
Speaker 2: And that wasn't like that wasn't like a she wasn't

239
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,560
Speaker 2: like putting pillows or stuffing it or anything. No, that

240
00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:25,280
Speaker 2: is wild.

241
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:30,760
Speaker 5: No, it's a psychosomatic disorder, which is extremely.

242
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:32,360
Speaker 4: Mental.

243
00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,240
Speaker 5: You know, the body, I mean, the body keeps the

244
00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,320
Speaker 5: score right, so when you have anxiety, when you have stress,

245
00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:43,240
Speaker 5: it results. But with this condition, you stop having your period,

246
00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:48,359
Speaker 5: you lactate, you know, all of the things, cravings, frequent reurination,

247
00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,280
Speaker 5: all the things that we talked about on the show.

248
00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:55,520
Speaker 4: But most times, every doctor we've spoken to, anyone who had.

249
00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:59,600
Speaker 5: Any experience with this, says that when people see that ultrasound,

250
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,160
Speaker 5: they start the process of understanding that there is not

251
00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,720
Speaker 5: a baby in the belly, even if they rejected at first,

252
00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,480
Speaker 5: you know, like no, check again, check again, I know

253
00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,199
Speaker 5: I'm pregnant. I know I'm pregnant. I feel pregnant. I

254
00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:14,800
Speaker 5: don't feel well. I'm this that my body's changing it.

255
00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,120
Speaker 5: So again, we haven't found anybody who went nine months

256
00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:24,240
Speaker 5: like she did anybody else, so there so physically she

257
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:29,480
Speaker 5: did have pseudocyesis however, there are there is also evidence

258
00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:33,920
Speaker 5: that she was covering her tracks, so I just.

259
00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:36,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, see that's that's the piece too where I'm like, was,

260
00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:39,520
Speaker 2: which which one was? It? Can it be both?

261
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:40,520
Speaker 4: And I think it's true?

262
00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:43,680
Speaker 5: Or yeah, I think it has to be both, right, yeah,

263
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,320
Speaker 5: because it was the you know, she medically she had it,

264
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:50,240
Speaker 5: but because of the lengths that she went to to

265
00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:54,920
Speaker 5: cover her tracks and to uh convince people that she

266
00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:59,360
Speaker 5: was pregnant, there seems to be some kind of split

267
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,280
Speaker 5: in her, right, So I wonder I would love to know.

268
00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,040
Speaker 4: You know, it seems like there's times.

269
00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,720
Speaker 5: Of the day where she believes she's pregnant and then

270
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,280
Speaker 5: there's moments where because she had a gender reveal, right,

271
00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,839
Speaker 5: so somebody writes down on a piece of paper for

272
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:18,360
Speaker 5: your girl, right, and her friend made the cake, and

273
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:23,680
Speaker 5: we have video of her like girl going ballistic, like screaming, jumping,

274
00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:30,160
Speaker 5: you know, and it seems a doctor didn't write girl

275
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,160
Speaker 5: on a piece of paper to give to her to

276
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:32,880
Speaker 5: give to her friend.

277
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:33,840
Speaker 4: Somebody wrote it.

278
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,160
Speaker 2: Right, And it's also like I know it was during

279
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,560
Speaker 2: the COVID piece. But at the same time, I mean, babe,

280
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:40,400
Speaker 2: just think about all the appointments that we just had

281
00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,280
Speaker 2: for Roman and the amount of times like can you

282
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:46,160
Speaker 2: imagine if I was pregnant and you didn't want to

283
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,200
Speaker 2: say like can I see an ultrasound picture of the baby?

284
00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:50,720
Speaker 2: Or can I come see the baby? Or I know,

285
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,000
Speaker 2: like they didn't allow certain amount of people in the

286
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,880
Speaker 2: rooms for those things, and not many women got checked

287
00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,520
Speaker 2: during that time. But also like when you think you'd

288
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,760
Speaker 2: want to see an image, some sort of proof.

289
00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think he did see an image. Was it

290
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:06,160
Speaker 4: a real image?

291
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:07,080
Speaker 2: That's the thing?

292
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:07,440
Speaker 5: Yeah?

293
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yeah, was it a real image?

294
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,600
Speaker 5: That's you know, she ordered sonograms that had her name

295
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,920
Speaker 5: on them and the hospital's name and the date, and

296
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,200
Speaker 5: you can get them online and they say, if you

297
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:20,800
Speaker 5: look it up, it says prank.

298
00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,920
Speaker 4: You know, like if you guys, you know, twenty years

299
00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:24,680
Speaker 4: from now.

300
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,640
Speaker 5: You say surprise, babe, Like they all have these disclaimers

301
00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,720
Speaker 5: that say it's you know, gag purposes only and so on.

302
00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:35,040
Speaker 4: And so forth. But it wasn't very funny to him.

303
00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:40,240
Speaker 3: So no, I mean, it's such an interesting story. Essure,

304
00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,600
Speaker 3: You've got a background in film and TV. What made

305
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,600
Speaker 3: you I said this to Elen, what made you go

306
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,000
Speaker 3: the of making a podcast and not a documentary or

307
00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,040
Speaker 3: a TV show or a movie.

308
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:54,800
Speaker 5: Well, if I'm being perfectly honest with you, we would

309
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,360
Speaker 5: love to do a movie or a TV show about this,

310
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:06,240
Speaker 5: and a documentary as well. But it was something that

311
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:12,160
Speaker 5: we felt could thrive first in the podcast space and

312
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:17,880
Speaker 5: then as IP go to a series, a limited series

313
00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,640
Speaker 5: or a film like a Lifetime film or something like that.

314
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,960
Speaker 5: And because we were doing it in COVID, we had

315
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:29,120
Speaker 5: control of doing the interviews and just kind of getting

316
00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:34,480
Speaker 5: it done immediately, because you know, we spoke to him December,

317
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,320
Speaker 5: right after it happened, and we had him out here

318
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:43,480
Speaker 5: in early March, and we had him for a few days,

319
00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,200
Speaker 5: and then everybody else we just did by zoom, and

320
00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:51,400
Speaker 5: then last May we went to Pennsylvania and did additional

321
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:55,600
Speaker 5: interviews for some more voices and some more opinions and

322
00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:56,960
Speaker 5: texture and stuff like that.

323
00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:57,600
Speaker 2: Wow.

324
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,880
Speaker 3: When I was listening to the to the first part

325
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,439
Speaker 3: of the of the podcast, and my brain automatically went to,

326
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,400
Speaker 3: why have they not made this a movie? Because it's

327
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,800
Speaker 3: it almost sounds like you remember the Blair Witch project. Yeah,

328
00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:14,480
Speaker 3: remember that, and that ended up a really successful movie then,

329
00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,520
Speaker 3: and straight away I'm thinking this could be like like

330
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:22,960
Speaker 3: the Blair Witch Project, like a real life situation that's

331
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,879
Speaker 3: actually happened. I'm not just sure the Blair Witch Project happened,

332
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:30,360
Speaker 3: but yeah, but that kind of impact where it instantly

333
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,120
Speaker 3: grabs you and keeps you there.

334
00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. I was. I was like, all right,

335
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,720
Speaker 2: next episode, next episode, like feet, I was just feeding

336
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:39,480
Speaker 2: the baby down there, like next episode.

337
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:40,040
Speaker 4: Yeah.

338
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,680
Speaker 5: And that's the thing too, like you know, everybody was like,

339
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:44,520
Speaker 5: oh my god, moms are going to dig this, and

340
00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,359
Speaker 5: like you have three children, right, yeah, and so congratulations

341
00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:52,920
Speaker 5: and I was like, yeah, I think but like I'm

342
00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,520
Speaker 5: not a mom, and I think it's wild. And we

343
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,359
Speaker 5: everybody that we've had dinner with, that we've pitched or whatever,

344
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:04,280
Speaker 5: whether they be I uh, single couples, you know, young

345
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,480
Speaker 5: not young, everybody's just like whoa. So I think that's

346
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,000
Speaker 5: another reason why I think a TV show or a

347
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,200
Speaker 5: film about it would be amazing, because we've not nobody's ever.

348
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,920
Speaker 4: Been like mm hm past the salt.

349
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,720
Speaker 2: You know, everyone's just right, like you know what, Yeah,

350
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,920
Speaker 2: I mean That's why I'm when when did the episodes

351
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:23,200
Speaker 2: drop because now I need to.

352
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:28,359
Speaker 5: Tuesdays, so then next episode four will be out on Tuesday.

353
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,640
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm so excited. I can't wait to find out more.

354
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,719
Speaker 3: So your enthusiasm for true crime. I think everyone in

355
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:38,400
Speaker 3: this space is a real love true crime. Did your

356
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:42,520
Speaker 3: true crime fascination and interest grow from being a criminal

357
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:44,640
Speaker 3: defense lawyer or did you have it before? Then?

358
00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,399
Speaker 5: Well did they even have true crime before I was growth?

359
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:56,439
Speaker 5: I think for sure that my true crime love grew

360
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,560
Speaker 5: out of being a criminal defense attorney. So I'm also

361
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:02,639
Speaker 5: raised by a criminal defense attorney. My dad's a criminal

362
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:04,480
Speaker 5: defense attorney, which is why I went to law school

363
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,320
Speaker 5: to maintain his love, even though I wanted to be

364
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:10,680
Speaker 5: an actor the whole time. And I think that I

365
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,880
Speaker 5: actually loved being a lawyer and I was pretty.

366
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:14,040
Speaker 4: Good at it.

367
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,040
Speaker 2: You like to play one instead, yes, exactly.

368
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,480
Speaker 4: Exactly, which I've done multiple times.

369
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,480
Speaker 5: Right, So, but I do think that when I miss

370
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,320
Speaker 5: I miss courtroom stuff, and so I kind of sit.

371
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,320
Speaker 4: There and I'm like objection or you know, like.

372
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,560
Speaker 5: I follow the I like to follow the trials on

373
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,040
Speaker 5: TV too, and then I'm like, I would have done

374
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,439
Speaker 5: that differently, you know, So I do think there definitely

375
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:37,440
Speaker 5: is a connection for me.

376
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,520
Speaker 2: Speaking of you, you know, doing that. What is one

377
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:46,240
Speaker 2: of your favorite true crime stories that you've you've heard?

378
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:48,919
Speaker 5: I mean I watched so many they all blend, But

379
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:53,840
Speaker 5: this one that really jarred me recently was this woman

380
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,960
Speaker 5: who gave her child away for adoption and then thirty

381
00:19:58,040 --> 00:19:59,160
Speaker 5: years later was.

382
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:00,480
Speaker 4: Asked for the body test.

383
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:01,000
Speaker 3: Yeap.

384
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, and then the mother knew where she was and

385
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 5: they called her crazy.

386
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, like she's like she's in that backyard. Oh yeah,

387
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,560
Speaker 2: Like that is the mother's intuition for sure, like my

388
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:17,280
Speaker 2: child is there, likes.

389
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,600
Speaker 5: Even thinking about it. But yeah, I mean I also,

390
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,800
Speaker 5: I mean the Staircase. I think I've watched that twice.

391
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:23,720
Speaker 2: I don't think I've seen that one. What are what

392
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,359
Speaker 2: are your thoughts on the Menda's brothers.

393
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,720
Speaker 4: Ooh, you know. I think that.

394
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,679
Speaker 5: Whenever you get a second trial, it's tough for the

395
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,560
Speaker 5: defense because the prosecution has the opportunity to fix all

396
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,280
Speaker 5: the stuff that they did wrong or they didn't land

397
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 5: with the jury in the first in the first time.

398
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:43,440
Speaker 4: And I do think that.

399
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,480
Speaker 5: If it was being tried today, the evidence of the

400
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:49,800
Speaker 5: sexual abuse would.

401
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,920
Speaker 2: Come more into play. Yeah.

402
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,639
Speaker 4: I also think that thirty years is a long time.

403
00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,119
Speaker 5: And if the State of California, who is you know, know,

404
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,000
Speaker 5: the plaintiff in this case, because it's a criminal matter, right,

405
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,120
Speaker 5: So it's not mister missus, Menandez versus their sons, it's

406
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:07,680
Speaker 5: the State of California versus them.

407
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:09,680
Speaker 4: If the State of California, meaning.

408
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,200
Speaker 5: The District Attorney's office, thinks that this is the right move,

409
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 5: and they're not only not opposing the defense's request for

410
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 5: them to be released, but they're saying that they also

411
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 5: think that they should be released, then who am I

412
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,439
Speaker 5: to judge, you know, in the sense that that there

413
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,360
Speaker 5: are the people that make the decisions about prosecution and

414
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,320
Speaker 5: so on and so forth, they seem comfortable with it.

415
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:36,199
Speaker 4: You know.

416
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:41,680
Speaker 5: I tend to believe victims, and I think that there

417
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 5: was a lot of you know, hullabaloo going on. And

418
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 5: I do think the thing with Manudo, the you know,

419
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 5: the kids from Manudo coming forward did help them in

420
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:51,960
Speaker 5: some way.

421
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 4: So I say, you know, good for them, bad for

422
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:56,920
Speaker 4: their parents.

423
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:01,400
Speaker 5: But even but I feel like even Kitties family members

424
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 5: and they're supporting it as well. They think that they've

425
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,640
Speaker 5: been in long enough. Yeah, I'm for it, How about

426
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:09,160
Speaker 5: you guys.

427
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 3: I don't know. I've got a mixed I've got a

428
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,920
Speaker 3: mixed opinion on it and a mixed view on it

429
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,239
Speaker 3: because I don't regardless of the situation, the sexual abuse too,

430
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 3: to commit, to commit the brutal crime that they did

431
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 3: is I would just be scared that they get out

432
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 3: and something like that happens again.

433
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 2: Like killing someone.

434
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because they pick it and listen, I get

435
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 3: they were it was aggravated and there's a lot of abuse,

436
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 3: but they've still picked up a shotgun and shot someone

437
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 3: out of anger. So I don't. But again, my view

438
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 3: is I've also I've also got empathy for what they

439
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,359
Speaker 3: went through, So I'm kind of split down the middle.

440
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 3: But for two guys who went through that amount of

441
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 3: abuse and torture, there's a part of me wants to

442
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:58,880
Speaker 3: see them released for sure.

443
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 2: Is there a true crime out there that you are like,

444
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 2: they got it wrong, They just got it wrong, especially

445
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 2: with your background too, with you know, the criminal defense.

446
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 4: Oh that's such a good question. I'm trying to think.

447
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 2: I know, there's so many and they all blend together,

448
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 2: but I was just you know.

449
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 4: I don't know.

450
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 2: I feel, like I said obviously oj it got that

451
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 2: one wrong.

452
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 5: Right one, which at the time I didn't think. So

453
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 5: you know, at the time, I was very happy that

454
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 5: he got a quitted and I looked back at that

455
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 5: person and I was like, wow, you were wrong. But

456
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 5: I would like to know more answers about who uh

457
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 5: took Casey Anthony's daughter's life.

458
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 4: I wish that because I like, I love true crime,

459
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 4: but I hate unsolved mysteries. I don't see what's fun about.

460
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 5: Unsolved mystery at all. Like I want the answer, I

461
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 5: want to know. I want to see police doing great work.

462
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 5: I want to see detectives caring.

463
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:13,120
Speaker 4: You know, I don't. I don't like unsolved mysteries.

464
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,120
Speaker 5: It I just don't see what's fun about it because

465
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:16,360
Speaker 5: it's like what happened?

466
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 4: So I feel like there, I do feel like there's

467
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 4: a part of me that feels like her parents were

468
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 4: involved in that and she was just like cool.

469
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 5: But I'm not sure because I wish that's in one

470
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 5: that I'm not sure about.

471
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 2: I totally hear you in the unresolved ones because even

472
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,679
Speaker 2: the I mean the Jean Benet Ramsay's, I mean, we

473
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 2: grew up with that story and I'm like, I'm always

474
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 2: like what happened to that sweet little precious girl, you know?

475
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 4: Yeah?

476
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 2: And to not have that resolve is I mean, gosh,

477
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 2: for the family, I can only imagine it's so hard.

478
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 2: But then from people that were invested in the news

479
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 2: stories and trying to be like, you know, what actually happened? Yeah,

480
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 2: So what movie did we just watch?

481
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 3: That?

482
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 2: Was it a true story? It was? It was the

483
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 2: story very gosh, who uh where the guy was raping

484
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,719
Speaker 2: those girls and she escaped and she called? Was that

485
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 2: the movie?

486
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 4: Was the hour that Anna Kendrick one yea yeah.

487
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 2: Because can you imagine all the people that you know,

488
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 2: these these guys are still out there doing And there

489
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 2: was another one too that he had like all these

490
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 2: other women that he was killing and raping and I'm

491
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 2: just like wow.

492
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 5: And he was out three for like twenty years before,

493
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 5: like like he didn't go straight in that guy, which

494
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 5: is wild.

495
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

496
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 5: And the fact that, I mean, it's crazy because we

497
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 5: live in this you know, digital era, Like when I

498
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 5: was young, people got kidnapped. I don't want to say frequently,

499
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 5: but it felt like there were posters a lot, and

500
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 5: I mean it happens now obviously probably even more, but

501
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 5: like and never were resolved because there was no you know, uh,

502
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 5: digital footprint really obviously, and so I just think that

503
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 5: is another thing that's so interesting about how I watched

504
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 5: a whole series, I think, eight episodes in a week

505
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 5: about how crimes were solved just by cell phone towers

506
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 5: and and all that stuff kind of was new around

507
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 5: like the serial time, you.

508
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 4: Know, we were just like, what's going on? They're they're

509
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 4: pinging all over the place, you know.

510
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 2: So what do you why do you think people are

511
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 2: as obsessed as they are about true crime?

512
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 4: I don't know. I read a meme that said that

513
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 4: we might be psychotic, but I don't.

514
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 2: Read that too.

515
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, I didn't love it.

516
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 2: I read that too.

517
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 4: I'm like, I've been attacked.

518
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 5: I do think for me, you know, part of it

519
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 5: is I like to see the investigation. I like to

520
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 5: see when the detectives are really smart, you know.

521
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 4: And I like to see justice for the family. I

522
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 4: enjoy that a lot. Obviously.

523
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 5: I don't like the idea of glorifying the murderer, you know,

524
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 5: And I do think that Anna Kendrick did a lovely

525
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,159
Speaker 5: job of not doing that and with the lens in

526
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 5: Women of the Hour, because I thought he was a

527
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 5: creep from jump.

528
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 4: But I think that that's I think that's what it is.

529
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 5: I think I like to see when justice is served

530
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 5: for the families, which sounds weird because I was a

531
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 5: criminal defense attorney, but I you know, I was a

532
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 5: federal criminal defense attorney, so they don't have jurisdiction over

533
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,679
Speaker 5: murder per se unless it's a Rico case. You know,

534
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,239
Speaker 5: the states have the jurisdiction over murder. So we did

535
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 5: a lot more of like drugs and white collar stuff.

536
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 5: And you know that.

537
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 3: I guess that was one of my questions because it

538
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 3: must be so hard as a defense lawyer. And I

539
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 3: don't know if you defended someone else but they've committed

540
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 3: the heinous crime and you know they're guilty, but you

541
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 3: have to defend them. Yeah, so you think you've just

542
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 3: answered that saying that it was more kind of white

543
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 3: collar crimes.

544
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 4: Well, no, it actually well, okay, truth be told.

545
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 5: I stopped practicing law because of a case that I

546
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 5: bumped heads with my former employer on that I didn't

547
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 5: want to do, and that was really damaging to me.

548
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 4: And I knew that the I believed that.

549
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 5: The young man was guilty, like my dad is the

550
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 5: type of lawyer who's like, well, the kid didn't do it.

551
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 5: I'm like, no, he did it. The burden is proved

552
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 5: beyond a reasonable doubt. Let's just see what they have.

553
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 5: And I always feel felt that it was important to

554
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,439
Speaker 5: make sure that there's checks and balances as far as

555
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 5: the Constitution goes, so that if defense attorneys aren't, you know,

556
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 5: writing motions about the FBI or the DA or the ATF,

557
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 5: not waiting for warrants before they go in, or just

558
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 5: not doing things the right way, that it's going to

559
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 5: kind of you know that, I don't want them coming

560
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 5: to my door knocking and just coming in or not

561
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 5: knocking at all. Right, So I feel like a lot

562
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 5: of times, the way I looked at it was to

563
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 5: protect the rights of the non guilty people, the non

564
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 5: criminally committing.

565
00:28:58,680 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 4: People.

566
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 5: Also, I did federal work, so I didn't win a

567
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 5: lot because they don't just like somebody robbed a liquor store.

568
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 4: Let's figure it out, you know. They they really you know,

569
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 4: the first case.

570
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 5: I ever had, they had tapped the phone of my client,

571
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 5: the email account, and his fax machine for eight years

572
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 5: before they even indicted him. So that was a long

573
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 5: time to be watching him to find something, and so

574
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 5: I was kind of liked to be like, Okay, they

575
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 5: did this, but they didn't do that, And.

576
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that I don't know, I guess I.

577
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 5: Believe in the constitution, and I think that, you know,

578
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 5: the police should do their job the right way, but

579
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 5: do your job.

580
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 2: You know, right, And I kind of I mean, I

581
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 2: see how everyone should have their right to have a

582
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 2: lawyer and to have someone defend them, but also like that, yeah,

583
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 2: that's that's a heavy, like a hard line, because it's like,

584
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 2: how can someone defend somebody that has done something so

585
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 2: terrible and then try to be like, let's get some

586
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 2: years off, like you know, but also they have their

587
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 2: own they have we all have our rights.

588
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it wasn't It wasn't particularly easy for me.

589
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 5: I loved getting to know people that I would have

590
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 5: never been friends with or bumped into on the street

591
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 5: and get to know their life story and realize that

592
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 5: there's a pattern of abuse and neglect and poverty, and

593
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 5: you know, it was you know, meeting people that I

594
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 5: was like, Wow, if you were even raised in my

595
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 5: crazy family, you probably would be at Harvard.

596
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 4: But then you also meet sociopaths that you're like, okay,

597
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 4: jre see hopefully never, but.

598
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 3: You know for sure, Yeah, what point in your in

599
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 3: your legal career that like, I've always been interested, at

600
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 3: what point does someone choose to be a defense lawyer

601
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 3: and then someone choose to be a prosecution because I've

602
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 3: always thought it would be so not easier, but a

603
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 3: more fulfilling role to be a prosecution.

604
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 4: Yeah.

605
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 5: I was raised by a criminal defense attorney. When I

606
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 5: went to law school, I wanted to be an actor anyways.

607
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 5: I literally I think I took the alsat what the

608
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 5: day I came home from spring break. You know, I

609
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 5: was just like whatever. I went to Brooklyn Law School,

610
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 5: the Princeton of Nowhere, and I got an agent immediately,

611
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 5: and I really realized quickly that if I was going

612
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 5: to practice law, it wasn't going to be contracts or

613
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 5: corporations or real estate.

614
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 4: I was going to do criminal law.

615
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,719
Speaker 5: So my last year of law school, I signed up

616
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 5: for a trial advocacy class, right, which is where you

617
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 5: perform like you're in court. But I signed up on

618
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 5: a Monday because I figure, well, if I get to

619
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 5: play theater Stark on Monday, so I won't have to

620
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 5: miss the class. Randomly, I get assigned the the DA

621
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 5: of Brooklyn as my teacher, and I do my opening statement,

622
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 5: I do my closing statement, I do a direct exam.

623
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 5: He caused me in the holloway. He's like, you're hired,

624
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 5: come work for me. I was like, no, I want

625
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 5: to book a pilot. And so anyways, I did take

626
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 5: the job because I was like, you know, I can't

627
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 5: not go into the DA's office in Brooklyn if they

628
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 5: invited me, I guess it's meant to be. And then

629
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 5: at the end, like right after I took the bar,

630
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 5: they sent a letter saying because of the budget, they

631
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 5: wanted us to start in January instead. So I was like,

632
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 5: oh my god, it's another sign I should be an actor. Right,

633
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 5: But at the time I was already working for my

634
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 5: dad's friend from law school who was a federal criminal

635
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 5: defense attorney.

636
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 4: And then by the time it was for us.

637
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 5: To start for the class of das to start, we

638
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 5: were deep in that trial that I was telling you

639
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 5: about about the client that was seven years followed eight years,

640
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 5: and it just it kind of didn't make sense, like

641
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,719
Speaker 5: I had been working with him for so long. I was,

642
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 5: you know, it was like a year later. I didn't

643
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 5: want to miss the trial that I had worked so

644
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 5: hard on. It was an eight month trial. I didn't

645
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 5: want to abandon them, So I just did end up going.

646
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 5: And then a couple of years later I ended up

647
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 5: moving to la And so I just that's the way

648
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 5: it went.

649
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

650
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, and now you know obviously been in

651
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 2: a bunch of shows. Is in your husband he's a writer? Yeah,

652
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 2: so are you guys gonna you know, write and then

653
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 2: start in like a scandalish kind of show like you know,

654
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 2: did you guys work well together?

655
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 5: Or yes, I think we do work well together. We're

656
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 5: actually writing a legal thriller right now. It's based on

657
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 5: a book that a really cool studio offered him to adapt.

658
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 5: And he was like, can I my wife's lawyer, and

659
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 5: I'll do the shoot him up bank bank stuff and

660
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 5: she'll do the courtroom stuff.

661
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 4: So we're doing that, and yeah, I mean, I would

662
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 4: love to.

663
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 5: I wrote a pilot that's based on my experience being

664
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 5: a young federal defense attorney in New York City.

665
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, so, I mean I love the law.

666
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 5: I love it. I love being a lawyer, So I

667
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 5: would love to. I would play lawyer on TV for

668
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 5: the rest of my life. If I could, to be honest,

669
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 5: I mean.

670
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 2: It's I'm trying to think, like it's it would be

671
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 2: so fun, you know, to do that. I mean I

672
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 2: always think back and think scandal is amazing. And then

673
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 2: Jake Gillenhall, I thought he killed it as a lawyer,

674
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 2: I don't know, presumed innocent. Oh my god. I thought

675
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 2: it was so good.

676
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:23,479
Speaker 4: Yeah.

677
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 2: It was one of my favorite roles of his that

678
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 2: he's that he's done because I was just I was

679
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 2: in I believed him, like, yeah, it was great. I

680
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 2: loved it so good. Those courtroom scenes, like when actor

681
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 2: can nail that courtroom scene, it's just like the best.

682
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, like wow, yeah, it's crazy.

683
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 5: I mean, you know it's it's what's really funny is

684
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 5: that I was the Well, I don't know if it's funny,

685
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 5: it's just kind of ironic. I was the on set

686
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 5: league advisor for HBO's Perry Mason the first season, and

687
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 5: they were like.

688
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 4: Well, what we do here? I'm like, I don't know.

689
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 4: The show's set in nineteen eighteen, Like there.

690
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: Was no utter little like man over there, you know,

691
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: like and then, but I did not watch a ton

692
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: of law shows because I could not stand how inaccurate

693
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 1: they are.

694
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 4: And then I got jury duty and I was like,

695
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 4: we are doing that right, but we have to worth,

696
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 4: you know, for the purpose of storytelling.

697
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 5: But we had to do so much of it right

698
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 5: because we had the guy who didn't know it was fake,

699
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 5: so you know, but that was like terrifying, like every

700
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,359
Speaker 5: day worried that my witnesses were just going to break

701
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 5: on the stand and be like I forgot what I

702
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 5: was supposed to say, you know, so literally.

703
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 4: You know, like, let's hope this goes well, you know,

704
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 4: but yeah, it's like, okay, well, I guess you have

705
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 4: to do it.

706
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 5: You know, right now I can watch them because I

707
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 5: have empathy for their their plight.

708
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 2: Right exactly. Okay, so the Unborn tell everyone when where

709
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 2: they can listen, and is there going to be episodes?

710
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 2: So after you have you said there's seven, are you

711
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 2: going to do another then series of another story?

712
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 5: I mean, if we find one, we would love to,

713
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 5: you know, like we were talking about make this into

714
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 5: something narrative, either a TV series or a film.

715
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 4: Or TV movie.

716
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 5: Obviously if we there's another idea that I have for

717
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 5: a podcast that relates to the client that I had

718
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:22,919
Speaker 5: all those years ago.

719
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 4: He just got out of jail. But I do think

720
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 4: I would be open to it.

721
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 5: But I would also even be open to going another

722
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 5: like if Christy wanted to tell her side of the story.

723
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,879
Speaker 4: Or if during the course of this if more people

724
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:39,359
Speaker 4: come out.

725
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 5: Because I I'm so glad that it's entertaining, but I

726
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 5: also want the whole picture too, you know. So yeah,

727
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 5: but yeah, So The Unborn is out now. It's on

728
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 5: iHeart Radio and wherever you get your podcasts, Apple, Spotify, Pandora, Amazon,

729
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 5: et cetera. But it comes out every Tuesday. Right now,

730
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 5: the first three episodes are out, so if you haven't

731
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 5: you can binge those and then every Tuesday for the

732
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 5: next four weeks until we finished seven.

733
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 2: I love it. Well, Thank you so much for coming on.

734
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 2: Good luck with everything, and wait to watch one of

735
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 2: your shows.

736
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me. Great to meet you.

737
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 2: Thanks for coming girl you Tube.

738
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 5: Okay, bye bye bye bye