1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: Guess what will what's that mango? So I was watching 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: this old BBC clip online of an electronic lollipop. What 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: is that? So it's not actually a candy. The lollipop 4 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: is still being developed in labs. But it's this gentle 5 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: clamp that slides metal plates over the top and bottomy tongue. 6 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: I don't think it helps to call this clamp gentle. 7 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: That still doesn't sound that appealing. Well, here's what's cool 8 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 1: about it. So it sends currents through your tongue and 9 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: adjust the temperature on those plates, and the electronic lollipop 10 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: can actually trick your tongue into thinking it's tasting a 11 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: wide variety of flavors, like a lemony sour taste is 12 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: the easiest to pull off, and scientists can do reasonable 13 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: approximations of other flavors. But the application of all this 14 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: is really cool. Like imagine you're watching Iron Chef and 15 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 1: Bobby Flay is on there and he's just made the 16 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 1: most amazing eggplant spaghetti taco in the world, and you 17 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: can't figure out for the life of you what an 18 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: eggplant plus spaghetti and a taco shell should taste like, 19 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: And so you just take a lick of your lollipop 20 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: and suddenly you get a sense of that flavor. 21 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 2: Wow. 22 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 3: I mean, that's kind of weird, but it is pretty cool. 23 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 3: Reminds me a little bit of smell vision, except for 24 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 3: your taste bud exactly. And you can see how this 25 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 3: might be used in online grocery shopping in the future 26 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 3: or checking out new recipes. It's totally fascinating. But what 27 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 3: I found most interesting in all of this are the limitations. 28 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 3: Because these currents are only playing with your tongue, they 29 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 3: can only create a set of basic flavors. But when 30 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 3: the scientists added technology that incorporates your nose, suddenly the 31 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 3: range of flavors expanded dramatically, and that got me thinking 32 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 3: what other tricks can we play on our tongue and 33 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 3: how much a flavor is really just something constructed in 34 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 3: our brain. 35 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 2: So that's what this episode is all about. 36 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 3: Hey, their podcast listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm 37 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 3: Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good 38 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 3: friend mangesh Hot Ticketer, and today I'm here to address 39 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 3: a big problem in the English language. 40 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure we were talking about starting sentences with 41 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: because because my second grade English teacher had the same 42 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: argument with me. 43 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 3: Wait, this was second grade. You got in trouble in 44 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 3: second grade for starting sentences. 45 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: Was because yeah, actually it was more of a thing 46 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: that she said we shouldn't do. And then I started 47 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: every sentence in a story with a word because it 48 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: was not a good strategy for going to recess that. 49 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 3: All right, Well, at some point we'll do a whole 50 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 3: episode on grammar, so you can save your SOB stories 51 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 3: for then. But today I'm talking about how English speakers 52 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 3: use the words taste and flavor interchangeably, as though they 53 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:32,119 Speaker 3: mean the same thing. 54 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: Wait, they don't mean the same thing. 55 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 3: I know, it's pretty crazy. So I've been reading this 56 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 3: new book called Flavor. It's by Bob Holmes, and it's 57 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 3: really good. As Holmes explains, taste is just one component 58 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 3: of flavor, and he writes, the best way to think 59 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 3: about flavor is that it's the sum of all the 60 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 3: sensations we get when we have food in the mouth. 61 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 3: So think about the weight of the bowl, the color 62 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 3: of the plate, the crunch of the potato chip. Even 63 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 3: the choice of background music can have a direct effect 64 00:02:58,000 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 3: on how we perceive flavor. 65 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: It's funny because when I think of flavor, it seems 66 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: like such a specific thing, like popcorn flavor, jelly beans, 67 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: that's a flavor. 68 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 3: I think there might be some people who disagree with 69 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 3: you on this, but. 70 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: I know what you're saying is true. Like taste and 71 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: smell and touch and sound, they all play a role 72 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: in how much we appreciate food. I guess I've just 73 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: been using the wrong vocabulary. 74 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 3: All right. Well, I'm not here to flavor Shandy, but 75 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 3: we do have Bob Holmes on the show today, which 76 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 3: is super exciting, and we'll be talking to him about 77 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 3: flavor and some of the fascinating studies and facts he 78 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 3: covered in his book. Speaking of which, do you have 79 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 3: a terrible quiz lined up for us today? Oh? 80 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: Of course I do. Sticking with the flavors theme, we're 81 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: playing real vintage recipe or gourmet cat food flavor. It's 82 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: a little harder than you think. 83 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 3: Awesome, all right, all right, Well, let's kick this off 84 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 3: by talking about taste. Even if it's not the same 85 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 3: thing as flavor, it's obviously an important thing, definitely so. 86 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 1: In the English speaking world, psychologists have traditionally acknowledged four 87 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: different tastes. They're sweet, sour, salty, and bitter, and humans 88 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: have different receptors for each of these. And then more recently, 89 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: we've added a fifth taste, umami, which kind of just 90 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: sounds made up, so we need to talk about that. 91 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, it did feel like a few years ago people 92 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 3: started talking about umami and it was like breaking news, 93 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 3: like did you hear about this umami flavor? And actually, 94 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 3: to be honest, I got confused. I was mixing it 95 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 3: up with the word unagi, which is the Japanese word 96 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 3: for fresh water eel, so I was trying to understand 97 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 3: why eel got to be a flavor of its own. 98 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:27,919 Speaker 3: I mean, don't get me wrong, I love eel, but 99 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 3: it was still a little confusing. 100 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was confusing to me because I thought we 101 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: were getting a brand new flavor, like you know that 102 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: apartment you have, did you know it's been hiding a 103 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: secret room all this time? Or like you're familiar with 104 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: the rainbow, guess what we're adding a new color exactly, 105 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: And instead it was like, you know, parmesan cheese or 106 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: soy sauce, those are umami. You just didn't have a 107 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: word for it, right, But umami is definitely distinct. Yeah, 108 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 1: it's a Japanese word meaning delicious flavor and linguists usually 109 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 1: translated as savory or maybe meaty, and his Homes explains 110 00:04:58,080 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: there are a few reasons why it takes a while 111 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: to rap your head around what umami is. First, is that, 112 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 1: unlike other tastes, you don't really experience umami as this 113 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: isolated thing. Think about it. You can bite into a 114 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: strawberry and immediately experience that as sweet, or lick a 115 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: French fry and no, that's kind of a salty taste. 116 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 3: I think we've talked about this. You've got to stop 117 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,239 Speaker 3: licking your French fries. That's a little weird. 118 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: They're just so good though. But anyway, you can experience 119 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 1: those tastes in a pretty pure and direct form. With umami, 120 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: it's more in combination with other things. Taste researcher Paul 121 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: Breslin also points out that the receptors for umami have 122 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: a pretty low maximum intensity compared to other tastes, which 123 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: prevents us from being able to note something as being 124 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,279 Speaker 1: very umami, unlike how we might say something's very sweet 125 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: or very salty. 126 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's a much stronger cultural element than I realized. 127 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 3: I mean, I know the stereotypes of different cultures being 128 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 3: able to handle different levels of spice or things like that, 129 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 3: but I really didn't think about how that could be 130 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 3: applied to something like umami. But it turns out many 131 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 3: people in Asian countries have no problem identifying things as umami, 132 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 3: but they have the same ease that American children have 133 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 3: identifying things as sweet. It's really interesting how taste has 134 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 3: developed differently in different places around the world. 135 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: Well, let's back up for a minute and talk about 136 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: how these tastes would have developed from an evolutionary perspective. 137 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's one thing for us to identify or talk 138 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 3: about these tastes when we cook at home or eat 139 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 3: at restaurants now, but for our ancestors, these tastes were 140 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 3: key to survival. So think about how a sweet taste 141 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 3: would have let someone know that they were getting sugars, 142 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 3: which are an important way to get calories for energy, 143 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 3: or tasting salt would be an indication of electrolytes, and 144 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 3: a mommy would have indicated the presence of proteins. Now, 145 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 3: on the negative side, our ancestors learned from bitter taste 146 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 3: that something might be toxic, or from sourness that a 147 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 3: fruit might have gone bad or just not be good 148 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 3: to eat. 149 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not hard to see how we'd be hardwired 150 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: to like sweet, salty, and a mommy. And it's equally 151 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: fascinating to see how other animals have evolved differently because 152 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 1: of their different nutritional needs. Like there was a cat study. 153 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: It's oh great, it's back. Well, a study was done 154 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: that showed cats, because their carnivores are unable to really 155 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: identify sweetness and it has no appeal for them. And pandas, 156 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: who are some serious bamboo eaters, don't really need to 157 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: identify umami, so they've lost the ability to taste it well. 158 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 3: And even more extreme than that, vampire bat's love of 159 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 3: blood has caused them to lose the ability to taste 160 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 3: umami sweet and bitter. I'm actually curious why we don't 161 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 3: do a bad study like we do cat studies. Have 162 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 3: I mentioned I don't like cats. I think you've mentioned 163 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 3: that a few times, all right, I just wanted to 164 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 3: make sure. So back to how we've evolved, there's another 165 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 3: thing about taste that I think is just crazy interesting. 166 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 3: So just as we're discussing how flavor is much more 167 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 3: than just taste. Taste also happens to be more complex 168 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 3: than we thought. Did you know that there are taste 169 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 3: receptors in multiple places around our body, not just our mouth? 170 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: Sure, it's crazy, isn't it. 171 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 3: Wait, so that means you do know about this. I'm 172 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 3: gonna quiz you. So, do we have taste receptors in 173 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 3: our lungs? 174 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 2: Yes? 175 00:07:57,920 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 3: What about our guts? 176 00:07:58,800 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: Yes? 177 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 3: What about it our brain? Yes? What about our forte? 178 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: Definitely no, we don't. 179 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 3: We do not have taste receptors in our forehead. You 180 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 3: slum dog millionaireed me you should know about it. There's 181 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 3: no cheating on our quizzes. So this isn't exactly well 182 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 3: understood yet, but it's really fascinating. The ones in the gut, 183 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 3: for example, detective Mommy and sweet and let our brains 184 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 3: know that some yummy and nutritious food has arrived, and 185 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 3: if they taste something bitter, they let us know there 186 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 3: may be a problem and trigger a response of some kind. 187 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 3: So you can get the sense for why they're helpful. 188 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 3: But why do you think we need taste receptors in 189 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 3: our respiratory system? 190 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: So it's one way of letting our bodies know if 191 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: bacteria has arrived because bacteria have a communication chemical with 192 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: a bitter taste, and when the receptor is in our 193 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: respiratory system, notice this, they help our bodies mount response. 194 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,239 Speaker 1: There's even some thinking among scientists that these bitter receptors 195 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: may have existed in other areas of our body, first 196 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: as a way of detecting infection and then moving to 197 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: our mouths. 198 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 3: Yes, Holmes explains. If this is the case, we have 199 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 3: disease to thank for the flavor of coffee, beer, and broccoli. 200 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 1: It's weird, right, all right. So I know in a 201 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: few minutes we're going to play a quiz, but before 202 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: we do that, I think we should find out whether 203 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: we're super tasters. 204 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 3: Super tasters Well. 205 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: It's not as exciting as it sounds, because while it 206 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: does mean someone has a more intense sense of taste, 207 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: supertasters tend to be much more bland eaters because most 208 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: tastes tend to be that much more extreme for them. 209 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 3: Well, given the fact that the last time we ate 210 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 3: at the Chinese place downstairs, it looked to me like 211 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 3: you just ordered a plate of hot peppers, So I'm 212 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 3: guessing you're not a super taster. 213 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, we had a joke in our family that our 214 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: dad served as so much spicy food that we burned 215 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 1: off our taste buds. 216 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 3: I believe that. 217 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: Let me show you how we test for this using 218 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: this filter paper. Each strip has a small amount of 219 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,319 Speaker 1: a bitter compound on them. It's called prople thigh ORUSIL 220 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 1: or PROP. So we're going to put these on our 221 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: tongues and find out which of these three categories of 222 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: tasters we fall in. Non tasters will taste nothing, tasters 223 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: will notice the bitter taste but it's not a huge deal, 224 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: and super taste will have this super strong response to it. 225 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 3: All right, I like this. We should also get some 226 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 3: other members of the PTG team in here. 227 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: What do you say? 228 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 4: Yeah? 229 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: Definitely? 230 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,079 Speaker 3: All right, so let's give this a shot. So we've 231 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 3: got two of our team members joining us. We've got 232 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:13,559 Speaker 3: Noel Brown, you may know from stuff they don't want 233 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 3: you to know, also a supervising producer on the show, 234 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 3: and Jerry Roland, our executive producer. Here, guys, you guys 235 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,199 Speaker 3: ready to give this a shot? Am I ever? 236 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 2: Okay? 237 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 3: All right, So we've all got these strips and on 238 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 3: the count of three, we're going to put them on 239 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 3: our tongues. We're going to see what happens now. As 240 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 3: a reminder, if you taste nothing, which may be the case, 241 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 3: you're a non taster. If you taste a little bit 242 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 3: of bitter, just some bitter, then you're a taster. And 243 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 3: if it tastes extremely better, then you are a super taster. 244 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 3: So ready, all right on the count of three, one, two, three. 245 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 3: I don't know it sides. You may have to flip 246 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 3: it out. Oh wait, you get something I got? I 247 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 3: got a hint of bitter. Uh huh. Mine is totally bitter. 248 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 3: It's like great fruit bitter. Oh nice, I have a 249 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 3: real paper taste, but I mean something completely different. We 250 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 3: can't talk about it. Might be fooling myself about this. 251 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 3: Oh Jerry, she's running away. 252 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: She's always had great. 253 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 3: Is blown? I hate grapefruit, super taster. Okay, spicy food, Jerry, 254 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 3: I love spicy food. But you just like the torture. 255 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 3: I guess I'm not sure what's happening. Wow, oh man, 256 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 3: that's so disappointing. You've given us a lot to think 257 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:32,439 Speaker 3: about it. 258 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like I'm so cheated. Like not only 259 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: can I not see those like three D magic pictures, 260 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: but also I can't taste these people. 261 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is the worse. Okay, that's a bummer. I 262 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 3: was getting. I think I was getting a slight taste 263 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 3: of bitter. Okay, here we go. Well, while we're having 264 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,319 Speaker 3: so much fun, when you say we play a little quiz, 265 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 3: sounds good. 266 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 4: All right. 267 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 3: So who do we have on the line today, Mango. 268 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 1: We've got Sarah Fiddler, who's got one of the list 269 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: jobs in the world. She's a flavor guru at one 270 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: of my favorite ice cream companies, Ben and Jerry's. 271 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 3: We are so excited to have you on. Welcome to 272 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 3: part time Genia. 273 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: Sarah, thank you for having me. 274 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 3: So I'm really curious how you got this job. I mean, 275 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 3: what sort of training and schooling do you have to 276 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,959 Speaker 3: have to become a Ben and Jerry's flavor guru. 277 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 5: Well, personally, I have a degree in food science from 278 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 5: the University of Vermont and a degree in baking and 279 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 5: pastry from the Culinary Institute of America. There are a 280 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 5: group of us flavor gurus here, and everybody's got kind 281 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 5: of a mixed background, from chefs to food scientists, all 282 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 5: comes from different backgrounds. 283 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 3: It's very cool, that's awesome. And how are flavors decided upon? Like, 284 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 3: how do you guys decide you have so many fun 285 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 3: and creative and awesome flavors, how do you guys come 286 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 3: up with these? 287 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 5: Well, we start out by being very creative and kind 288 00:12:55,960 --> 00:13:00,080 Speaker 5: of playing around in our test kitchens, and then we 289 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 5: meet with our marketing team, our brand management team, sometimes 290 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 5: our social mission team and figure out which of our 291 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 5: crazy flavors makes the most sense to launch for the 292 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 5: next season. 293 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: And so, how many flavors are you typically playing with? 294 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 5: It could be arranged anywhere from maybe three to ten 295 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 5: at a time. 296 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: That's pretty crazy. I heard that the Ben and Jerry's 297 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: staff takes a field trip every year to research new flavors. 298 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: Is that true? 299 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,959 Speaker 5: Yeah. We go on what we call trend tracks. Pick 300 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 5: a city or area that seems to be filled with 301 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 5: really up and coming food places, sometimes cocktail places, farms, 302 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:52,839 Speaker 5: and go as a group and eat as much as 303 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 5: we possibly can, and then come back and make ice 304 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 5: cream inspired by what we ate. 305 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: Cool, But where are some of the fun places you've 306 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: trekked to? 307 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 5: Well, I'm relatively new to the company, so I have 308 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 5: yet to go on a track, but I've heard that 309 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:13,959 Speaker 5: they've gone to San Francisco, Portland's I believe there was 310 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 5: a trip to Japan before I started. 311 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: Very cool. 312 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 3: Wow, I'm so jealous of this job. That sounds pretty great. 313 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 3: Now we also know about the flavor graveyard at Ben 314 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 3: and Jerry. So are there are there ceremonies when flavors 315 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 3: are buried there? And how does this work? How do 316 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 3: you pay your respects? 317 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 5: I think for some of the flavors that were a 318 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 5: little bit more loved, they do ceremonies, and sometimes it's 319 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 5: more of a quiet affair. 320 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 3: We won't get into that then. So that's pretty great. 321 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 3: All right, So manga, what game are we playing today 322 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 3: with Sarah? 323 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: It's called do Me a Flavor? Mostly because I just 324 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: wanted to hear you say do me a flavor all things. 325 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 3: I really appreciate that. That's a pretty terrible title of 326 00:14:58,240 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 3: how do we play? 327 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: Basically, we're giving Sarah three popular flavors from an iconic 328 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: food or drink brand, and she just has to tell 329 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: us what we're talking about. 330 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 3: Okay, that sounds fun. All right, Sarah, are you ready 331 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 3: to play? 332 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 5: I'm ready? 333 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 3: Okay. Question number one? This chip comes in cool Ranch, 334 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 3: Nacho cheese, and heat Wave flavors, So do me a 335 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 3: flavor and tell me what product we're talking about. Real yepah, 336 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 3: you got it for one, question number two. The most 337 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 3: popular flavors of this candy include very cherry and buttered popcorn, 338 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 3: though the blueberry flavor was particularly popular in the nineteen 339 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 3: eighties when it was created for Ronald Reagan. Do me 340 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 3: a flavor, Manger, are you gonna make me say? 341 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: Do me a flavor? 342 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 3: Do me a flavor and tell me what brand we're. 343 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: Talking about jelly Belly. 344 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 3: You got it two for two for two question number three. 345 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 3: This sports drink originally came in lemon, lime, and orange flavors. 346 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 3: It has since expanded to include rainberry, glacier freeze, and 347 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 3: cool blue. Do me a flavor and tell me what 348 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 3: beverage I'm talking about? Betray Yes, all right, she's three 349 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 3: for three. Let's see if she can get the last 350 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 3: two Question number four. While this O shaped breakfast cereal 351 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 3: does come in flavors like fruity and frosted, the most 352 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 3: popular varieties are still original and honeynut. Do me a 353 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 3: flavor and tell me what breakfast cereal I'm talking about? Curios. Okay, 354 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 3: we've saved the hardest for last. Good luck on this one. Okay, 355 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 3: question number five. This iconic ice cream brand has the 356 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 3: best punny flavors, including Fish Food, American Dream, and the 357 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 3: Tonight Dough. Do me a flavor and tell me what 358 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 3: really wonderful ice cream company we're talking about, Ben and Jerry. 359 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 3: All Right, that would have been kind of embarrassing if 360 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 3: she'd missed out. 361 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: Well, Sarah when an astounding five for five, which wins 362 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: her the grand prize, A hundred note from us to 363 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: her mom or boss, singing her praises. 364 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 3: Wow. 365 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: So congratulations Sarah, and thank you so much for flaving. 366 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 3: That's awesome. Congratulations Sarah, Thank you both. Please tell all 367 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 3: the people at Ben and Jerry's we say thank you 368 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 3: for making wonderful ice or even keep up the great work. 369 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 3: I will. 370 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: Guess what will? 371 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 3: What's that mango? 372 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 1: I'm coming to terms with the fact that I'm not 373 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: a super taste all right. 374 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 3: Well, lucky for you, we've been talking about the fact 375 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 3: that flavor is so much more than just. 376 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: Taste, and then we just talked about taste. But I 377 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 1: think it's time we backed that statement off and talk 378 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: about another key component of flavor, and that's smell, all. 379 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 3: Right, talk to me about smell. 380 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: Well, if you think taste is a complicated thing, it's 381 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: nothing compared to the complexity of smell. Think about the 382 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 1: millions upon millions of smells in the world and how 383 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 1: our noses have to make sense of them and help 384 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:52,120 Speaker 1: us identify what things are. In fact, as Holmes points out, 385 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: the old faction researcher Joel Mainland estimates that they're about 386 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: twenty seven billion smelly molecules in the world. 387 00:17:59,520 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 3: Wow. 388 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: And while that doesn't mean they're about twenty seven billion 389 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: smells because some might be identical, that still this incredible number. 390 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 3: Well, the other thing Holmes explains that I find so interesting, 391 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,679 Speaker 3: and this goes back to your electric lollipop example, but 392 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 3: that's how different taste than smell are. So our sense 393 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 3: of taste is pretty easy to break down. We can 394 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 3: enjoy a dish of sweet and sour pork and understand 395 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 3: that it's sweet and sour, or have some ketch up 396 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,199 Speaker 3: and know that it's sweet, sour, salty and umami. And 397 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 3: maybe we're not thinking about those things actively, but those 398 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 3: are all there and we can identify them. But smell 399 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 3: is different because you really can't break it down. Instead, 400 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 3: our brains take all the information from the smelly molecules 401 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 3: and create a single perception of smell. As Holmes writes, 402 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 3: if you combine ethyl isobutorate, which is a fruity odor, 403 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 3: ethyl maltol, it's just caramel like an allyl alpha ionine, 404 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 3: which is violet like in the proper proportions. For example, 405 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 3: what you smell is not caramel coated fruit on a 406 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 3: bed of violets, but pineapple. 407 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 1: And how much more complicated by the fact that in 408 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 1: English we really don't have the language to describe smells 409 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,119 Speaker 1: in any significant way other than seeing what they smell like. 410 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 1: So we might say something smells fishy or like grass 411 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 1: or whatever. But this isn't the case everywhere, and especially 412 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: in places that depend much more on those smells for survival, 413 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: such as the remaining hunter gatherer tribes. Take the Jihai 414 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: tribe of Thailand. A research team set up a smell 415 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: test between a group of Jehai men and a group 416 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: of men from Texas, and when the Jahai men were 417 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: presented with certain smells, they had just an easy time 418 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 1: communicating what they smelled with very descriptive words, as they 419 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: did in describing colors, and the Texans, on the other hand, 420 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 1: were of course able to describe colors, but they struggled 421 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: when asked to describe smells. 422 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,439 Speaker 3: When there's one more reason why smell is just so 423 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 3: difficult for us to understand and talk about. 424 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 1: What's not? 425 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 3: All right? So humans have around four hundred odor receptors, 426 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,360 Speaker 3: but the part that makes things complicated is that only 427 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 3: about half of those receptors work in pretty much everyone. 428 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 3: But then of the other half, there's this wide range 429 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 3: of which ones work in some piece and not in others. 430 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 3: So that leads to an incredibly wide range of smells 431 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,919 Speaker 3: that humans are capable of processing. In fact, for the 432 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 3: most part, no two people have the same sense of smell, 433 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 3: which is pretty crazy. 434 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, but needless to say, our sense of smell makes 435 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: a huge contribution to the flavors we process. 436 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 3: And there's another biggie to add to taste and smell, 437 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 3: and that's the sense of touch. Think about the burn 438 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 3: of a chili pepper, or the chili feeling in your 439 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 3: mouth when you're chewing on a minty piece of gum, 440 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 3: or fizz in a carbonated drink. Oh man, that first 441 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 3: sip of a coke, how good is this first sip 442 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 3: of a coke? 443 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: So good? I think I'll have one right now. 444 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 3: All right to Atlanta. So it's interesting how little is 445 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 3: really understood about this component of flavor, at least how 446 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 3: few studies have been done on it. But we do 447 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 3: know that spicy hot, for example, is not a taste. 448 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,919 Speaker 3: It's something you feel. And then we have specific receptors 449 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,919 Speaker 3: that cause the heat sensation when we eat spicy things. 450 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 1: Speaking of spicy hot, do you know how the Scoville units, 451 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: which measure the heat of chili peppers got its start? 452 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 3: How's that? 453 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 4: Well? 454 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 1: Apparently it goes back to this pharmacist and researcher, Wilbur Scoville. 455 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 1: Scoville came up with the scale back in nineteen twelve, 456 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: and it was a pretty smart way of doing it. 457 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: You figured out that you could create a scale based 458 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: on the amount of dilution required before the burn of 459 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: a chili could no longer be felt, so super hot 460 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:20,959 Speaker 1: pepper would take much more dilution. 461 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 3: Oh, that is pretty smart. 462 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, And now it's easier for scientists to just measure 463 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: the amount of capsaicin, which is the main ingredient that 464 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,120 Speaker 1: makes a chili hot, and then just convert those into 465 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: Scoville units. 466 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 3: It's pretty wild how hot some peppers can be. Take jalapenos, 467 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 3: for example, which we think of is pretty hot. They 468 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 3: come in about five thousand Scovill units. Cayennes are at 469 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 3: about forty thousand. The habban nio comes in at over 470 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 3: one hundred thousand, maybe even up to three hundred thousand. 471 00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 3: But even the hobbin niro doesn't hold a candle to 472 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:51,159 Speaker 3: the Carolina Reaper. 473 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: And how many Scoville units does that one have? 474 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 3: Two point two million. It's unbelievable, it's crazy. That's basically 475 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 3: like police eat pepper spray. And there's a new contender 476 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 3: out there. It's called Dragon's Breath, which is a tiny 477 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,120 Speaker 3: pepper that can possibly kill. 478 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,440 Speaker 1: You, but it sounds so cute. So we have Noel 479 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: Brown here to test this out. Why would you even 480 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: make a pepper that hot. 481 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 3: Well, it's so unbelievably hot that can actually numb your 482 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 3: skin to touch, and that makes it useful as an 483 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 3: anesthetic in areas without medical supplies. But let's leave the 484 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 3: hottest of the hot peppers aside for a minute. It's 485 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 3: interesting that we humans enjoy inflicting this burning pain on ourselves, 486 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 3: and we don't know exactly why this is. I mean, 487 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 3: I know, we know about the endorphin release that happens 488 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 3: when we eat spicy foods, but that still doesn't answer 489 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 3: the question of why that happened. 490 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: You know, first we feast, does that chili head enthusiast show. 491 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: And I was reading an interview that said it's much 492 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,439 Speaker 1: easier to get people to drop their inhibitions when they 493 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: eat a chili pepper because they're like sweating and it's 494 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: like they've just exercised. So instead of those awkward questions 495 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: you go through in the beginning of an interview, people 496 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 1: just skip past that by eating chilis Wow. Anyway. We 497 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 1: know humans like heat, but researchers have yet identify another 498 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: mammal that seeks the heat of chili peppers. I mean, 499 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: birds eat plenty of them, but they don't actually have 500 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,239 Speaker 1: the receptors that would feel the heat of cupsason, so 501 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: there's no sensation at all for them even in eating 502 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: a super hot pepper. I wonder if birds enjoy the 503 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 1: first sip of a coke, oh man. 504 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 3: To it while we savor our beverages. Why don't we 505 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:31,719 Speaker 3: take a break for a quiz. Our guest today has 506 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,640 Speaker 3: been a science writer and correspondent for New Scientist magazine 507 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 3: for over twenty years, and as the author of Flavor, 508 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 3: the brilliant book we've been talking about in this episode, 509 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 3: and for those who listen to our episode on How 510 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 3: Clean We Should Be, you know, I'm not surprised that 511 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 3: a New Scientist writer would produce such a great book. 512 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 3: Bob Holmes, Welcome to Part Time Genius. 513 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 4: Hi, thanks for having me. 514 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 3: Bob. In Flavor, you mentioned that we can pretty much 515 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 3: do away with the idea that we have previously had 516 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 3: about taste maps, where different parts of our tongues helped 517 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 3: us experience different taste. So our taste maps really not 518 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 3: a thing we should think about anymore. 519 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 4: They really aren't, and it's pretty easy to demonstrate that. 520 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:09,640 Speaker 4: All you have to do is take a cute tip 521 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 4: and dip it in salt water and rush it around 522 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 4: your tongue. You know, the taste map says that you 523 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 4: say it's salty. I think it's right at the tip 524 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 4: of your tongue, and you'll find that you can taste 525 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 4: the salt anywhere. 526 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 3: Huh. So how did this come about? 527 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 4: I'm not sure. It turns out there are slight differences 528 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 4: in different parts of the tongue, and you've got a 529 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,919 Speaker 4: few more bitter taste bud's right at the back and 530 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 4: a few more sweet at the front, and things like that, 531 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 4: but it's not enough to make much of a difference 532 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 4: at all. 533 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: You also write the possibility of a sixth taste or 534 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: even more than that, and could you talk a little 535 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: bit about that? 536 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 4: Sure, Yeah, I mean it's almost certainly at least it 537 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 4: tastes and maybe quite a few more. You know, we 538 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 4: all know about sweet, salty, sour, bitter, and most of 539 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 4: us know about umami, which is that fifth taste that's 540 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 4: sort of safe retaste, but almost certain. I think the 541 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 4: evidence is really good now that there is in fact 542 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 4: the taste for fat, or more specifically, for the fatty 543 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 4: acid breakdown products of fat. These are actually the nasties. 544 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 4: The researcher who demonstrated this is the easiest way to 545 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 4: think about what they taste like is to imagine old 546 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 4: rancid French fry oil. It's gone off, and that's what 547 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,160 Speaker 4: fatty acids taste like. Yeah, I definitely know that it's 548 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 4: almost certainly one of those warning tastes to keep us 549 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 4: away from rancid. 550 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: Fats, and is there anything good that can be done 551 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: with it? 552 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 4: A little bit of these nasty, fatty acids are part 553 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 4: of what makes aged cheese interesting, huh So yeah, and 554 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 4: probably also a little bit in aged meat and things 555 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 4: like that. Yeah, So in very small quantities, you know, 556 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,680 Speaker 4: just like putting a little bit of cat in persum 557 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 4: actually is a good thing. You know, these nasties in 558 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 4: our food probably do add interest if there's little enough 559 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 4: of them. 560 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 2: You know. 561 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 3: One of the other things that you explained that I 562 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 3: thought was super interesting is that humans get a bad 563 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 3: wrap for having an inferior sense of smell. So is 564 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 3: this really a myth? 565 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 4: We have fewer odor receptors in our nose than it's 566 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 4: something like a dog does, so they probably are better 567 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,679 Speaker 4: than us, but not nearly as much better than us 568 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 4: as we think. When people have looked, they found that 569 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,120 Speaker 4: humans are actually pretty good at smelling stuff. A blindfolded 570 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 4: person can follow on a chocolate trail across a lawn 571 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 4: on their hands and he's sniffing to find where the 572 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 4: chocolate was d So, you know, most of the reason 573 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 4: that we think we're so bad at smell is that 574 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:55,719 Speaker 4: our noses are way up in the air and all 575 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 4: the smells are down there on the ground. So if 576 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 4: we were to, if we were to explore our worlds 577 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 4: just like our dogs do, we'd find there were stuff 578 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 4: there we could smell. People can go into a into 579 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 4: a onto a bookshelf and pick out which book someone 580 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 4: has just handled by the smell alone. 581 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 3: Wow. 582 00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 4: And at the other place, we're really good at smell. Actually, 583 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 4: it's in flavor. The shape of our heads mean that 584 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,919 Speaker 4: means the flavors foods that are inside our mouths have 585 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 4: very quick access to the olfactory part of the nose, 586 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 4: and so we're probably way better than our dogs are 587 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 4: at appreciating flavor. 588 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 3: Mm hmm. That's really interesting. 589 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: That's so crazy. I mean, I feel like that totally 590 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,439 Speaker 1: changes the truffle game, like the truffle hunting game, Like 591 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 1: you don't need a pig if you're on all four four. 592 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 4: That's probably right, right, that some people don't smell the 593 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 4: key compound and truffles. 594 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd probably do it for the right bar of chocolate. Yeah, yeah, 595 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 3: all right. Well, being an expert on flavor, we couldn't 596 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,199 Speaker 3: let you go without putting you to the test on 597 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,439 Speaker 3: an ultimate flavor quiz. So, mango, what what game do 598 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 3: we have? What game do we have Bob playing today? 599 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: We're playing a game called vintage recipe or a gourmet 600 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: cat food flavor. 601 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 3: That's right, So we'll be tossing you a delicious sounding item. 602 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 3: Delicious is in air quotes, which doesn't work quite as 603 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 3: well on podcasts. But you have to tell us if 604 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 3: it's a vintage recipe we found online or a gourmet 605 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 3: cat food flavor. So you ready to get started? 606 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:31,320 Speaker 4: Ready? 607 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: All right? 608 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 3: So the first one is ham and bananas, hollandais ham 609 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 3: and bananas Holland days? Is this a vintage recipe we 610 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 3: found online or a gourmet cat food flavor. 611 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 4: I'm gonna go vintage. 612 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, you would be right. 613 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: It's a great way to make use of your leftover 614 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: bananas and ham apparently. 615 00:28:53,440 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 3: All right, Okay. Number two Sea Bess in Seabas consumme. 616 00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 4: I'm gonna go cat slicks for that one. 617 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, it's from Tiki Cats Hawaiian queen Emma 618 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: Luau line. 619 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 3: Of course, all right. Question number three liver sausage, pineapple. 620 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 4: I can't imagine the cat eating pineapples. I'm gonna go 621 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 4: with vintage recipe. 622 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, three for three. I really probably would have guessed 623 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 3: cat food on that though, just because the word liver 624 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 3: would have thrown me off. I think, all right, number 625 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:33,959 Speaker 3: four lime cheese salad is he correct? 626 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, it's a It was a recipe from 627 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: Jello and and it's a Yello bed with a seafood 628 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: salad plopped on top. 629 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 4: I think I've had that Midwestern church suppers. 630 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 3: All right, we've got two left. He's four for four 631 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 3: so far. Here we go. Ocean fish, tuna and cheese sauce. 632 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 4: That sounds like it would appeal to a cat. 633 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 1: All right, it is a gourmet coffee. I can't believe 634 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: there's cheese sauce in Yeah, it's from the Tasty Treasures line. 635 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 3: Right, some fancy cat food. All right, let's see if 636 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 3: you can get six for six spam and limas spam 637 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 3: and Lima's. 638 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 4: No recipes. 639 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, it was a promotional recipe from Hormel, and 640 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: it had a Spanish gravy and frozen lime of beans. 641 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 3: That is incredible, So Bob, how has Bob done? 642 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: He ran the table. He did won an incredible six 643 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,720 Speaker 1: for six, which wins him Today's grand prize, which is 644 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: our endless admiration. 645 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 3: Wow, congratulations, Bob. 646 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 4: That is huge, Thank you kindly. 647 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, Bob, thanks so much for writing a terrific 648 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 3: book and for joining us today on Part Time Genius. 649 00:30:49,240 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 3: All right, guess what I've got my pocket here? Mango? 650 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: Oh, that sounds so creepy. 651 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 3: Sorry, I should have I probably should have phrased that 652 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 3: a little differently. But guess what I have in my 653 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 3: pocket here? That rhymes with schmop blocks. 654 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 1: That sounds even creepier. But you've got pop rocks, right. 655 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 3: I know we've talked about taste, smell, and touch and 656 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 3: that those are considered the flavor trinity, but we can't 657 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,959 Speaker 3: leave out sound or other multisensory effects on how we 658 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 3: experience flavor. 659 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: Well, you're gonna crack open those bad boys or not? 660 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 3: All right, let's do it. They are so good. Pop 661 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 3: Rocks reminded me of that, you know, that part in 662 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 3: the Eddie Hazard routine where he's talking about chiropractors and 663 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 3: how they live for the noise, and that chiropracting or 664 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 3: what do you call. 665 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 1: It, chiropractice cracking bones. 666 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 3: Would be nothing if they didn't hear the sound. They're 667 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 3: just like I live for the noise, I crack your bones. 668 00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:00,040 Speaker 3: So anyway, all right, you remember how our friend and 669 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 3: former Mental Flaws editor, Ah, they pop rocks are still 670 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 3: just popular, like crazyhood. I don't think I've had one 671 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 3: of these since I was ten. I need more. Okay, 672 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 3: So you remember our friend and former Mental Flaws editor 673 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 3: jess and Collins used to talk about chip o'clock in 674 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 3: the office. 675 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, for you listeners, there was a period in the 676 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: mid afternoon when the editorial staff and Mental Flaws used 677 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: to all go out for their afternoon snack and grab 678 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: a bag of chips. It made her crazy. 679 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 3: Well, while that sound may be difficult for the person 680 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 3: not eating the chips to listen to, for the people 681 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 3: eating chips, that sound likely increase their enjoyment. So papers 682 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 3: have shown that people rate chips is tastier if they 683 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 3: provide a louder crunch. It was even a study by 684 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 3: Charles Spence and Maxampinie that had people eat one hundred 685 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 3: and eighty pringles. 686 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: I'm so envious that people got to eat pringles for 687 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: sign I. 688 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 3: Mean, we did get to have pop rocks and I 689 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 3: kind of coke, and we got to watch Jerry have 690 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 3: that bitter taste. But as they did this, they wore 691 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 3: headphones that played back the sound of their crunch, so 692 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 3: as they work their way through the chips, the researchers 693 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 3: adjusted the volume level of the crunch feedback, and they 694 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 3: found that the louder crunching made them rate the chips 695 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 3: fifteen percent tastier than the softer crunching. 696 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: I still can't believe they got to eat sprinkles for sign. 697 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 1: I I know the sound of an expensive coffee maker 698 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: has been showed to increase how people rated a cup 699 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: of Joe, But I also loved the study where Spence 700 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: had a group of subjects eat oysters while listening to 701 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: different sounds. Some of them heard the sounds of waves 702 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: and seagulls, and some of them heard sounds from barnyards 703 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: like chickens clucking and cows mooing. And not only did 704 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: those who heard the sea sounds rate the oyster's tastier, 705 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: they also experienced them as saltier. 706 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,320 Speaker 3: I love this stuff because it kind of feels like 707 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 3: food trickery. But I guess as we understand that all 708 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 3: our senses are involved in how we experience flavor, it's 709 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 3: really no more trickery than anything else we do to 710 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 3: enhance flavor. So let's talk about some of the other 711 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 3: multi sensory effects on flavor. 712 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: I love that music can affect how we experience flavor. 713 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: Like Holmes notes that really powerful music like Carl Orff's 714 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: Carmina Burana causes people to note the heavier flavors in 715 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: a red wine and what he describes as zingie music 716 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: actually brings out the brighter flavors and a white wine. 717 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: And with that in mind, I'd like to recommend after 718 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: the show we all listened to Holland Oates and neat 719 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: a bag of rollos. I bet that can only make 720 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 1: the experience of both better. 721 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,479 Speaker 3: And then we'll eat one of those Reese's Fast Break 722 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 3: bars and listen to Aya the Tiger. 723 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's science and action, folks. We'll report back. 724 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 3: But there's some other fun and funny results of experiments, 725 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 3: Like there was this Goldilock style experiments using three bowls 726 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 3: of yogurt. Yogurt was the same in all three bowls, 727 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 3: but the bulls weighed different amount. 728 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: And how many bears were involved this is zero. 729 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 3: It wasn't published in our bear reviewed medical journals, but 730 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 3: people did note that they enjoyed the yogurt in the 731 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 3: heaviest bowl, most like, why should weight of a bowl 732 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,880 Speaker 3: affect your enjoyment? And strawberry moose served on a white 733 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 3: plate was rated sweeter than the same dessert served on 734 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 3: a black plate. 735 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 1: One of my favorite studies was the one on hockey 736 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: fans at Cornell, and researchers found that when the home 737 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: team won, fans actually found the ice cream to be sweeter, 738 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 1: and when they lost, they noted it as more sour. 739 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 1: How weird is that? 740 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:02,760 Speaker 3: That's almost as sciencey as our science. 741 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 1: Okay, so if all these senses contribute to flavor, why 742 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 1: do we only associate flavor with the stuff happening in 743 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 1: our mouths? 744 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 3: Well, that's the work of our brains. It takes all 745 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 3: that information smell, taste, texture, sound and combines it into 746 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 3: one experience, and then it tells us that experience is 747 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,359 Speaker 3: happening in our mouths. So as a side note, many 748 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,319 Speaker 3: food scientists now say that while foods obviously contain flavor molecules, 749 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 3: they believe the actual flavors themselves aren't created by the food, 750 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:31,800 Speaker 3: but instead by our brains. 751 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: Which I guess would be a big part of the 752 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 1: reason why we all experience flavor differently. 753 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 3: That's just weird, yes it is. But we are not 754 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:39,799 Speaker 3: done with our weird facts for the day. You know 755 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,839 Speaker 3: what time it is. It's time for the part time 756 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,279 Speaker 3: genius factos, the part of the show where we share 757 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 3: some of the interesting facts we learned recently but didn't 758 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 3: get a chance to mention just yet. 759 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,879 Speaker 1: So Bill, why don't you start this round all right? 760 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 3: Sure? So? If you read airline mages, you often see 761 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 3: that famous chefs pair up with airlines to improve the 762 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,880 Speaker 3: n flight meals, but the odds are stacked against them. 763 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,279 Speaker 3: According to a study commission by the German airline carrier Lufthansa, 764 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,720 Speaker 3: between the elevation and the dryness that occurs in the cabin, 765 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 3: your sensitivity to sweet and salty foods decreases by about 766 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,879 Speaker 3: thirty percent, which means the meal probably tastes a whole 767 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 3: lot better if you save it for after you land. 768 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 1: Do you know? Peanut butter and mayo sandwiches used to 769 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 1: be a popular thing like According to Garden and Gun magazine, 770 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: The sandwiches were a staple during the Depression and could 771 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: be fancied up by adding a few leaves of lettuce 772 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: and some pickles, and so the editors at food fifty 773 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 1: two this other site, also tried the sandwich on reader recommendation, 774 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:41,799 Speaker 1: and their verdict was, if you wear a blindfold when 775 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: you take a bite, it almost tastes like a tuna sandwich. 776 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 3: All right, why don't we just name a few odd 777 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 3: recipes we've found since we both looked them up. The 778 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,279 Speaker 3: Betty Crocker recommended a tuna and jello pie, also known 779 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:55,359 Speaker 3: as a summer. 780 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 1: Pie devoid the winter sales slump. Doctor Pepper Wren ads 781 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,279 Speaker 1: that you should heat the soda in a saucepan and 782 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,879 Speaker 1: then poured over a lemon. Gross which is why nothing 783 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: reminds me of Christmas more than a steaming mug of 784 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: Doctor Pepper. 785 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 3: Did you know that Johnny Walker makes a mustache wax 786 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:15,480 Speaker 3: that enhances their drinks. The wax comes in three flavors, pepper, citrus, 787 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 3: and ginger, and it helps to apply a generous amount 788 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 3: to your stash. 789 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,360 Speaker 1: So, I know, we talked about eating in texture today, 790 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 1: but I learned this isn't a completely new concept. In 791 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties, the Italian futurists played with food and 792 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 1: texture in a completely different way. Diners were clothed in 793 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,239 Speaker 1: textured pajamas which they stroked with one hand in a 794 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 1: dark room while burying their face and vegful. What and 795 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 1: when they looked up for their plates, a waiter which 796 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,919 Speaker 1: sprits them with perfume. For some reason, the movement didn't 797 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 1: take I. 798 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 3: Can't imagine why. 799 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, futurists hated pasta, and they like to sculpt their meats. 800 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,280 Speaker 1: And there was also one course where you ate salad 801 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 1: out of a tiny box with one hand and turned 802 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:57,839 Speaker 1: a crank with the other. As long as you were 803 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 1: turning the crank, your waiter would dance for you. 804 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 3: That is so good. I have to give you this one, 805 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:05,719 Speaker 3: so you earned this week's fact Off. Speaking of which 806 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:07,879 Speaker 3: we need to nominate as smarty pants to our Hall 807 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 3: of Genius. I'm thinking we should give it to William 808 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,360 Speaker 3: Mitchell's family. Mitchell was a food inventor who grew up 809 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,879 Speaker 3: on a farm, worked his way through college, and then 810 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 3: went on to invent cool whip, powdered egg whites for 811 00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 3: cake mix, quickset, jello tang and. 812 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 1: That's so many amazing things and what. 813 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 3: And pop rocks. Apparently the candy was supposed to be 814 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 3: a carbonated drink mix, but it worked better as a 815 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 3: crazy kids treat. 816 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: He's in William Mitchell's family. You'll be getting a certificate 817 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,240 Speaker 1: in the mail and special thanks to our brilliant nonfiction 818 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 1: librarians over at the Hoover Public Library in Hoover, Alabama 819 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 1: for recommending the book Flavored by Bob Holmes. If you 820 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 1: like what you heard, be sure to pick up a 821 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: copy today. That's it for today's episode. Thanks for listening. 822 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 1: Thanks again for listening to Part Time Genius. Be sure 823 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 1: to subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast. 824 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:09,720 Speaker 3: And because we're a brand new show, if you're feeling 825 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:11,480 Speaker 3: extra generous, we'd love it if you give us a 826 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,600 Speaker 3: rating on Apple Podcasts. Part Time Genius is produced by 827 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 3: some of our favorite geniuses. It's edited by Tristan McNeil, 828 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 3: theme song and audio mixing by Noel Brown. Our executive 829 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 3: producer is Jerry Rowland. Our research team is Gabe Lucier, 830 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,720 Speaker 3: Lucas Adams, Autumn white Field, Madrano, Austin Thompson, and Meg Robbins. 831 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:29,719 Speaker 3: Jason Hope is our chief cheerleader.