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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody.

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Speaker 2: Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let you know

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Speaker 2: this is a compilation episode. So every episode of the

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Speaker 2: week that just happened is here in one convenient and

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Speaker 2: with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to

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Speaker 2: in a long stretch if you want. If you've been

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Speaker 2: listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going

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Speaker 2: to be nothing new here for you, but you can

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Speaker 2: make your own decisions.

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Speaker 3: Hello, everyone, and welcome to It Could Happen Here. My

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Speaker 3: name is Dadal Kurd, and I'm a researcher and analyst

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Speaker 3: of Arab and Palestinian politics. Today, I wanted to talk

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Speaker 3: about the Israeli elections that are coming up. International Crisis

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Speaker 3: Group published a Q & A on the topic, which

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Speaker 3: I found useful, and we'll link in the show notes.

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Speaker 4: At the top of that.

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Speaker 3: Q & A, there's a photo of a Palestinian farmer

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Speaker 3: in Rantis, a village outside of Raballah, walking past his

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Speaker 3: olive groves. And hanging over him are two giant campaign banners.

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Speaker 3: One is Benjamin Netanyahu, and the other is for Gaddy Eisenkant,

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Speaker 3: the former army chief who wants Netanyahu's job. That Palestinian

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Speaker 3: farmer can't vote for either of them. He can't vote

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Speaker 3: in this election at all. But whoever wins will help

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Speaker 3: decide whether settlers come for his olive groves this harvest,

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Speaker 3: whether the army stands there and watches, and whether there's

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Speaker 3: a road outside of his village next year. That's the

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Speaker 3: Israeli election in one picture. It's coming up on October 27th,

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Speaker 3: and for Palestinians, the options range from bad to catastrophic.

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Speaker 3: Now let me explain why without burying the lead. Every

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Speaker 3: serious contender in the Israeli election supports the occupation, and

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Speaker 3: nobody is promising to end the war on Gaza. Jewish

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Speaker 3: Currents also published an explainer on the Israeli elections that

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Speaker 3: I'll link in the show notes. And the news editor

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Speaker 3: at Jewish Currents writes in that piece that he almost

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Speaker 3: ran the election guide under the headline, the vote doesn't matter.

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Speaker 3: But he says when he talked to Palestinians, he changed

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Speaker 3: his mind. Although the Israeli political landscape is abysmal, Palestinians

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Speaker 3: will suffer different impacts based on who wins. And so

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Speaker 3: obviously they're watching this closely. It comes down to two names.

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Speaker 3: Itzman Ben-Kavir and Bezabit Asmotrich. Ben-Kavir runs the national security

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Speaker 3: right now, which means the police and the prisons. and

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Speaker 3: he's responsible for a lot of the abuses that have happened.

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Speaker 3: And Bezalel Smotrich, which is the head of the religious

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Speaker 3: Zionist party, he's the finance minister, and he has enormous

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Speaker 3: sway over the West Bank. Netanyahu losing doesn't end the occupation,

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Speaker 3: but it almost certainly takes those two out of their ministries.

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Speaker 3: If you're a political prisoner or a farmer in some

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Speaker 3: of the rural areas in the West Bank, that isn't abstract.

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Speaker 3: An organizer in Jaffa, Abdel Meshada, told Jewish Currents, that

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Speaker 3: nobody is talking about change anymore. People are just asking,

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Speaker 3: how do we just survive this point in history? That's

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Speaker 3: very bleak, and it's also realistic. Crisis Group frames this

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Speaker 3: as a contest between different right-wing ways of running a

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Speaker 3: country that already controls everything from the river to the sea.

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Speaker 3: The occupation isn't on the ballot, but I think its

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Speaker 3: intensity is. The next government that will take over in

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Speaker 3: Israel starts from a very different baseline than four years ago.

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Speaker 3: Israel has taken more land Gaza and the West Bank

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Speaker 3: have been squeezed into smaller and smaller areas. Cities and

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Speaker 3: refugee camps have been razed. And at least 74,000 Palestinians

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Speaker 3: have been killed in Gaza by crisis groups count, but

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Speaker 3: we know that this is an undercount. The settler movement

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Speaker 3: will stay active no matter who wins. So the question

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Speaker 3: isn't whether things get better, but the question is how

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Speaker 3: much worse and how fast. Now, let me explain some

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Speaker 3: basics for those of us who don't follow Israeli politics closely.

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Speaker 3: The Knesset, the Israeli legislature, has 120 seats, and you

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Speaker 3: need 61 to govern. A party basically needs 3.25% of

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Speaker 3: the vote to get into the Knesset, which is about

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Speaker 3: four seats. Fall short of that, and your votes are

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Speaker 3: essentially burned. They simply vanish. And about a dozen political

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Speaker 3: lists are expected to clear that bar. And there are

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Speaker 3: basically two teams, or two-ish. Team one is Netanyahu's bloc, Likud,

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Speaker 3: and Ben-Kavir's party. which is openly Qohonist, and Smotrich's religious

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Speaker 3: side of the party, running this time with another one.

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Speaker 3: Moshe Feiglin has said on camera, the head of the HUT,

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Speaker 3: that he wants Gaza emptied of Palestinians. And that's who

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Speaker 3: the religious side of the party is running with. And

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Speaker 3: then the two Haredi parties, Shas and United Torah Judaism.

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Speaker 3: So that's the coalition that has governed since December 2022,

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Speaker 3: one that Crisis Group says is widely seen as the

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Speaker 3: most extreme in Israel's history. Their shared agenda, as the

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Speaker 3: past few years have made clear, I think, is to

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Speaker 3: expand settlements, push towards formal annexation of the West Bank,

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Speaker 3: stay in southern Lebanon, and push the Palestinians entirely out

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Speaker 3: of Gaza. Likud's slogan this year translates to the right

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Speaker 3: or Palestine. Basically that either you're voting for the right

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Speaker 3: wing or you're voting for Palestinians. The message is that

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Speaker 3: any other government would hand Palestinians a state. This brings

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Speaker 3: us to team two. And maybe you'll see why this

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Speaker 3: slogan is funny. The second team, so to speak, the opposition,

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Speaker 3: is led by Gadi Eizenkot and his new party, Yashar.

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Speaker 3: Eizenkot is a former army chief. In 2006, he formulated

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Speaker 3: the Lahya Doctrine, basically the idea that Israel wins by

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Speaker 3: using overwhelming force against civilian infrastructure. After October 7th, he

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Speaker 3: sat as an observer in the war cabinet. And he

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Speaker 3: lost a son in Gaza, which earned him real public sympathy.

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Speaker 3: On Palestine, Eisencott has called the two-state solution delusional. And

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Speaker 3: he says he very much believes in settling the West Bank.

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Speaker 3: But he has criticized settler violence and the E1 project,

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Speaker 3: and says he'd clear outposts that are illegal under Israeli law. Now,

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Speaker 3: to be clear, under international law, all of them are illegal.

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Speaker 3: But they like to split hairs, these Israeli politicians. Alongside

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Speaker 3: him is Naftali Bennett. He's a former prime minister and

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Speaker 3: former head of the Yerushalayim Settler Council. He's running on

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Speaker 3: a slate with Yair Lapid. And Bennett openly supports annexing

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Speaker 3: Area C of the West Bank. Then there's Abidur Lieberman,

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Speaker 3: who's far right, but he's personally done with Netanyahu and

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Speaker 3: has floated the idea of handing Palestinians in a shrunken

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Speaker 3: territory over to Jordan. So again, not give them their

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Speaker 3: own state, just hand them over to someone else. The Jordanians,

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Speaker 3: I'm sure, have not been consulted on this. And then

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Speaker 3: there's the quote-unquote central left, the Democrats, the Labour-Moritz merger

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Speaker 3: led by Yair Golan. They're the only Jewish party that

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Speaker 3: even nominally backs two states. But it's two states with

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Speaker 3: long-term Israeli security control over all of it. And they're

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Speaker 3: not talking about now or in the medium-term future. They're

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Speaker 3: basically saying maybe a Palestinian state someday policed by the

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Speaker 3: Israeli army. Now look at what the opposition actually attacks

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Speaker 3: Netanyahu on. They're attacking him on October 7th. And who's

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Speaker 3: to blame? They're attacking him on the cost of living

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Speaker 3: and the draft exemptions for Haredi Israeli citizens. When they

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Speaker 3: criticize his wars, it's not because he's overseen war crimes

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Speaker 3: or genocide, but because he's too soft. Lapid said, for example,

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Speaker 3: that Israel should have bombed Iran's oil and gas facilities.

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Speaker 3: And Bennett wants Qatar listed as an enemy state.

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Speaker 5: Here's how I would put it.

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Speaker 3: The Palestinian question isn't contested in this election because it's

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Speaker 3: been settled within Jewish-Israeli public opinion. There's near consensus on

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Speaker 3: keeping security control over the Palestinians. The actual debate is

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Speaker 3: about the style of control. Do we want something managed, quiet,

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Speaker 3: out of sight, or do we want something extreme and turbocharged? Now,

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Speaker 3: at this point, you might be asking, well, isn't 20%

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Speaker 3: of the country Palestinian? These are Palestinian citizens of Israel.

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Speaker 6: Where do they fit?

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Speaker 3: Sami Abushada, who heads Balad, the Palestinian Nationalist Party, is

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Speaker 3: running with two other parties on the joint list. But

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Speaker 3: Sami Abushada himself is not on the ballot anymore. And

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Speaker 3: I think what happened to him reflects the condition of

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Speaker 3: the Palestinian citizens of Israel. Right after October 7th, he

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Speaker 3: wrote an article analyzing what had just happened, calling the

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Speaker 3: attack a significant historical event. And Ben-Gavir's camp then moved

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Speaker 3: to disqualify him. under a basic law amendment that bars

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Speaker 3: candidates who support armed struggle, incite racism, or reject Israel

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Speaker 3: as a Jewish and democratic state. Now, Abushadza denied supporting

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Speaker 3: armed struggle. He said he was analyzing the events and

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Speaker 3: explaining their significance. He's a lawyer who works on human

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Speaker 3: rights and has decades of experience attempting to work within

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Speaker 3: the system in Israel to represent Palestinian citizens of the state.

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Speaker 3: I'll link in the show notes an interview he did

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Speaker 3: with Peter Beinart for the podcast Occupied Thoughts. You can

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Speaker 3: hear the outrage in his voice over the accusations he

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Speaker 3: was faced with, And by Ben Kavir, no less. Someone

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Speaker 3: with a criminal record with multiple convictions for offenses including

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Speaker 3: incitement to terrorism and racism and supporting a terrorist organization. Well,

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Speaker 3: as you might expect, the Attorney General backed the ban anyway.

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Speaker 3: And here's where it gets really bad. This wasn't just

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Speaker 3: the far right instigating a campaign against one of the

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Speaker 3: few Arab-Palestinian politicians and getting away with it. This was

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Speaker 3: a situation where the whole Zionist spectrum got behind the ban,

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Speaker 3: including the Yair Golan of the Democrats.

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Speaker 6: So the supposed left.

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Speaker 3: And of course, here's where the Israeli left and right agree,

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Speaker 3: oppressing Palestinians. And I want to note here, apparently there

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Speaker 3: is a law in Israel that bars incitement to racism,

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Speaker 3: but apply that law evenly and half or maybe more

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Speaker 3: of the current governing coalition would be in trouble. But

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Speaker 3: of course, the difference between them and Abu Shahada is

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Speaker 3: that he's Palestinian. And I'm not even saying he did

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Speaker 3: incite to racism. I'm just saying this is their accusation

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Speaker 3: of him. Now, the Supreme Court was clearly going to

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Speaker 3: uphold the ban. Sami Abushada mentions how the judges felt

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Speaker 3: threatened themselves. And then they also threatened him with more

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Speaker 3: severe legal action if he tried to oppose this. So

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Speaker 3: earlier this month, he withdrew and he was... trying to

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Speaker 3: avoid a precedent that would make it easier to knock

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Speaker 3: out Palestinian candidates later. The far right has tried this

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Speaker 3: for decades, and this is one of the times it's worked.

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Speaker 3: Orly Noy, a candidate for the joint list and a

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Speaker 3: Balad member, told Jewish Currents that many supporters wanted him

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Speaker 3: to stay in and basically make the court own this decision.

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Speaker 3: Abed Abushada, the Palestinian organizer for Miafa that I mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 3: he's Sami's relative. He described people waking up sad and

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Speaker 3: humiliated on top of frightened. I moderated a panel with

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Speaker 3: Abed for Jewish Currents Live recently where he reiterated the sentiment,

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Speaker 3: how heartbroken he was over Sami's decision. And this has

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Speaker 3: ignited the debate again among Palestinians about whether there's any

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Speaker 3: point in participating in the Israeli system if you're a citizen.

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Speaker 3: Because if you stay in, you lend legitimacy to a

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Speaker 3: rigged game. Or you exit and you lose the one

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Speaker 3: lever you might have. Palestinian citizens are being asked to

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Speaker 3: keep voting in a system that basically doesn't want them

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Speaker 3: and showed them where the line is. Now, there's a

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Speaker 3: parallel attempt to disqualify the entire joint list, the number

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Speaker 3: of Arab parties and Rom, which is an Islamist party,

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Speaker 3: as whole parties. And that attempt failed. So they're still

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Speaker 3: on the ballot. But after election day, they'll be negotiating

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Speaker 3: with the same parties that helped push their leader out.

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Speaker 3: So which of the Jewish-Israeli teams in this election will win?

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Speaker 3: the upcoming election. Probably nobody at first. Rough numbers from

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Speaker 3: the latest polling show that Netanyahu's bloc will likely get

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Speaker 3: around 50 seats. And then the opposition will also likely

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Speaker 3: get around 50 seats. Then the joint list, the Arab

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Speaker 3: parties and Ram, the Islamist party together, will get around 14.

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Speaker 3: And then there's a new right-wing anti-Haredi slate, the Reservists.

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Speaker 3: They might get maybe four, and they're leaning towards Eisenkot.

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Speaker 3: So let's do the math. Nobody gets to 61 without

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Speaker 3: the Palestinian parties. Crisis Group puts the odds of either

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Speaker 3: bloc winning an outright majority well under 10%. On paper,

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Speaker 3: that would make the Palestinian parties extremely important. They're kingmakers

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Speaker 3: in this election. But in practice, Eisenkot, Bennett, Lieberman, all

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Speaker 3: of them have said they won't govern with them. Jewish

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Speaker 3: Currents compares it to the riddle of the wolf, the goat,

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Speaker 3: and the cabbage. If you bring in the Haredim, you

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Speaker 3: lose Lieberman. You bring in the Islamist party, you lose Yashar.

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Speaker 3: Every boat sinks. So here are the four scenarios that

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Speaker 3: Crisis Group lays out might happen. Number one is a

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Speaker 3: hung parliament. Nobody forms a government. Israel votes again early

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Speaker 3: next year. Netanyahu stays on with Ben-Kavir and Smotrich still

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Speaker 3: in their ministries until that next election. He doesn't have

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Speaker 3: to win. He just has to make sure nobody else does.

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Speaker 3: Number two, Eisenhower forms a minority government with Palestinian parties

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Speaker 3: backing it from the outside. Now, there's precedent for this.

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Speaker 3: Arab parties in the past have, for example, propped up

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Speaker 3: Yitzhak Rabin from outside his coalition in the early 90s.

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Speaker 3: Under Israeli law, a government just needs more yes votes

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Speaker 3: than no votes. So, Ram, the Islamist party, wants in.

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Speaker 3: They want to be included. The head of that party,

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Speaker 3: Mansour Abbas's attitude is basically, we're here to govern. Furthermore,

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Speaker 3: the joint list leader, Yusuf Jabarin, has offered to be

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Speaker 3: a safety net for any anti-Netanyahu government. The catch is Lieberman.

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Speaker 3: He says he won't sit in a minority government, and

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Speaker 3: he won't be on the side of any Arab party.

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Speaker 3: If you take him out, then Jewish Currents Math puts

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Speaker 3: that coalition at around 49, outvoted by Netanyahu's bloc. So

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Speaker 3: this only happens if Eisenkant decides losing is worse than

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Speaker 3: breaking his promise. Then the third scenario is defections. In

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Speaker 3: this scenario, one of the parties or a few lawmakers

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Speaker 3: switch sides. Now, Yashar's list, for example, is full of

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Speaker 3: political newcomers, makes them targets. And another party, Shah's, has

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Speaker 3: hinted it could back Isingard because they're angry that Netanyahu

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Speaker 3: never delivered their draft exemption. Or maybe there's a unity

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Speaker 3: government with Likud minus the Kahanists, which Netanyahu has floated.

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Speaker 3: A number of different ways that that could happen. And finally,

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Speaker 3: the fourth scenario is that someone wins outright. This is

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Speaker 3: possible if several small parties fall under the threshold and

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Speaker 3: burn their votes. But it would mean months of polling

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Speaker 3: were wrong, so we're not sure how likely this is. Now,

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Speaker 3: after the vote, Israeli President Herzog picks someone to try,

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Speaker 3: and they get 28 days plus up to two weeks

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Speaker 3: more to try to form a government. And if that fails,

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Speaker 3: two more people get a shot than new elections. And

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Speaker 3: there's one more wild card. Axios reported that Netanyahu and

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Speaker 3: Trump discussed restarting the war with Iran before both countries vote.

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Speaker 7: The U.S.

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Speaker 3: Defense Secretary was in Israel this week to talk about Iran.

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Speaker 3: And Crisis Group notes some Israelis worry a strike could

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Speaker 3: be used to delay the election. So if something big

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Speaker 3: happens before the election, all of this is basically up

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Speaker 3: in the air. Now, what does this mean for Palestinians? Obviously,

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Speaker 3: for me, the top concern. Let's go place by place,

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Speaker 3: because Palestinians here means people living under very different rules.

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Speaker 3: So first, Palestinian citizens of Israel. They're about a fifth

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Speaker 3: of the population. And their most urgent issue is surviving

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Speaker 3: an increasingly repressive and racist society and government. And also

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Speaker 3: dealing with a record wave of organized crime and gun

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Speaker 3: violence in Arab towns that they feel is being allowed

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Speaker 3: to happen under Ben-Gavir's watch over the police. And behind

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Speaker 3: that is a deeper fear. Orly Noy, again, Bennett member,

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Speaker 3: told Jewish Currents that Palestinian citizens increasingly feel they're next

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Speaker 3: in line, that forced expulsion could come for them too.

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Speaker 3: Crisis Group says Netanyahu's opponents worry he may try to

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Speaker 3: discourage or intimidate Arab voters, as in past campaigns. And

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Speaker 3: turnout in Arab towns is quite variable in this race.

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Speaker 3: If it's high, then the anti-Netanyahu math gets easier. And

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Speaker 3: obviously it makes sense why he would want to depress

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Speaker 3: their vote. Now, for Palestinians in the West Bank, the

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Speaker 3: situation is different. Remember that settler violence is the one

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Speaker 3: occupation issue Israel's actually arguing about a little bit. Even

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Speaker 3: Netanyahu has, you know, pretended to condemn what he calls

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Speaker 3: fringe groups while making every excuse for them, of course.

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Speaker 3: But Crisis Group points out that the worry is mostly

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Speaker 3: about the strain on the army and Israel's image globally.

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Speaker 3: No one in Israeli politics actually cares about the Palestinians

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Speaker 3: being attacked by settlers. And little has been done to

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Speaker 3: stop it. I argued in an op-ed beginning of this

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Speaker 3: month for Prospect Magazine that The settlers in the state

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Speaker 3: are symbiotic. They work together to achieve objectives using tactics

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Speaker 3: the other side can't use. So the state can continue

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Speaker 3: pretending these are fringe groups while achieving their goal of

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Speaker 3: ethnic cleansing. For Israeli politics, the issues of economic strangulation,

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Speaker 3: home demolitions, land expropriation, they barely come up outside the

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Speaker 3: Arab parties. So an Eisenhower government might rein in vigilantes

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Speaker 3: and evict some of the smaller outposts. And of course,

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Speaker 3: that might mean the difference for a Palestinian villager who

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Speaker 3: faces expulsion. The joint-list baseline ask is basically that you

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Speaker 3: need to stop the daily terror. But actually annexing Area

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Speaker 3: C and doing something about permanent security control and doing

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Speaker 3: something about the fact that Palestinians have no state, that's

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Speaker 3: not on the table. This has brought support across both blocks. Now,

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Speaker 3: let's turn to what the election means for Palestinians in Gaza. Here,

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Speaker 3: the blocs mostly argue about who should govern Gaza and

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Speaker 3: whether to prop up the Palestinian Authority. The Crisis Group

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Speaker 3: report calls these peripheral disagreements. The far right still talks

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Speaker 3: about expelling Gaza's population and rebuilding settlements there. The opposition

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Speaker 3: doesn't say that, but it also doesn't say anything else.

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Speaker 3: Then there's international pressure. In September, the UK led a

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Speaker 3: ban on trade with settlements. And crisis groups read is

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Speaker 3: that it won't really shift Israeli views much in the

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Speaker 3: short run, because Israelis tend to dismiss outside criticism. But

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Speaker 3: they're also not oblivious to isolation. And maybe that'll matter

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Speaker 3: a little bit after Election Day, whoever wins. Okay, one

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Speaker 3: last statistic. An Israel Democracy Institute poll in September found

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Speaker 3: that 51% of Jewish citizens are optimistic about the future

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Speaker 3: of democracy in Israel. But among Palestinian citizens, that number

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Speaker 3: falls to 20%. So it's pretty obvious to everyone that

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Speaker 3: the system is working as designed for one group of voters.

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Speaker 3: Which brings us back to the photo I mentioned at

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Speaker 3: the beginning of this episode, the farmer in Runtis walking

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Speaker 3: under the banner of two candidates who both agree he

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Speaker 3: doesn't get a state, but they just disagree about how

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Speaker 3: hard to squeeze him in the meantime. That disagreement is small,

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Speaker 3: but it's also the difference between the next harvest and

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Speaker 3: a burned olive grove, between a prisoner who gets visits

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Speaker 3: and a prisoner who doesn't. So, yes, let's watch the

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Speaker 3: Israeli elections, but we can't confuse a change of management

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Speaker 3: with a change of the system. That is really not

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Speaker 3: on the table. And if Eisenkot really would rather hand

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Speaker 3: the country back to Netanyahu than lean on Palestinian votes,

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Speaker 3: you know, the audacity of actually including some of your citizens,

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Speaker 3: we'll learn exactly what Jewish and democratic means in practice.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for listening, everyone. Take care and stay safe.

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Speaker 7: Welcome to It Could Happen Here, a podcast sometimes about elections,

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Speaker 7: but a different kind of election. Hell yeah, we're talking

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Speaker 7: union elections, talking loosely reform caucus-y stuff, kind of, not really,

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Speaker 7: but sort of. Yeah, I don't know. Welcome to a

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Speaker 7: different kind of 2026 election episode. I am your host,

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Speaker 7: Mia Wong. And today I'm going to be talking about

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Speaker 7: some other kind of union election. That's just to say

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Speaker 7: union election in the IWW. And yeah, here with me

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Speaker 7: to talk about that is Pam Sweetland-Hallis, who's an IWW

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Speaker 7: member in DC.

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Speaker 6: Also, Andrew D.

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Speaker 7: Ferguson, who's an at-large member from Houston. And Elizabeth Coppice-Duclos,

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Speaker 7: an IWW member and is the Associate Treasurer of the

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Speaker 7: Portland Branch. Yeah, you three, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 6: Thank you.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 8: Thank you very much.

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Speaker 7: So let's start, I guess, by doing the thing we've

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Speaker 7: done a few times on this show, but I think

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Speaker 7: is worth at least getting into briefly here, which is,

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Speaker 7: can you talk a bit about what the IWW is?

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Speaker 7: And I guess for these purposes, like what it's up

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Speaker 7: to these days?

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Speaker 9: Yeah, so the IWW is an all industries industrial union,

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Speaker 9: which means that we're organized based on what the people working,

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Speaker 9: what the union members make, what industry they're in, rather

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Speaker 9: than exactly what specific job they are. So if, you know,

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Speaker 9: you're an accountant. for a school, then you are part

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Speaker 9: of the educational workers. Um, uh, and if you're an

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Speaker 9: accountant for a car manufacturer, your industry is, is manufacturing

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Speaker 9: because it's based on, you know, who employs you and

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Speaker 9: not what specific job you do.

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Speaker 10: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: It's just not like divided into different like trades or whatever.

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Speaker 6: It's like, no, no, no. One, one union, one big one.

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Speaker 11: Yes. Yes.

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Speaker 9: Uh, the dream of the IWW is to have all

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Speaker 9: workers in one big union organized and as best we

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Speaker 9: can so as to maximize worker power so that we

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Speaker 9: can end the wage system and the need for people

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Speaker 9: to be exploited by a capitalist class by having their

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Speaker 9: labor stolen from in the form of profits.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 12: Something that we emphasize a lot is like workers' democracy

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Speaker 12: or like workplace democracy. So one thing that like the

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Speaker 12: IWW does when organizing, you know, like building up to

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Speaker 12: the industrial, because it's not like you get everyone all

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Speaker 12: at once. You might do office by office or shop

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Speaker 12: by shop, but we don't. defer decisions to an outside representative,

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Speaker 12: people tend to be able to vote on things themselves

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Speaker 12: when it comes to them and like what they want

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Speaker 12: to do and how they want to do it.

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Speaker 9: Aside from four national paid employees that just take care

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Speaker 9: of mostly paperwork style stuff, we are an entirely volunteer-based organization.

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Speaker 9: People engage in this, you know, not as their job,

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Speaker 9: but as in a way of helping their fellow workers,

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Speaker 9: sort of in a mutualistic, mutual aid sense.

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Speaker 8: And all power within the union is held by members

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Speaker 8: who are elected by other members in elections like the

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Speaker 8: one that we're running in.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: And that's, I think, like a very unique aspect of

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Speaker 7: the IWW in that it is the most democratic of

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Speaker 7: the unions, but both in terms of like, you know,

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Speaker 7: I guess what you would call like shop floor autonomy, where,

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Speaker 7: you know, like the actual like unions themselves get to,

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Speaker 7: make decisions on how they're going to run their campaigns.

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Speaker 7: But also, yeah, in terms of the direct election of officials,

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Speaker 7: which is a like it's like genuinely staggering that there

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Speaker 7: have been a lot.

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Speaker 6: Of unions in the U.S. that, you know, the names of.

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Speaker 7: Where you couldn't directly elect like the president of the

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Speaker 7: union for a very long time.

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Speaker 9: I mean, I don't think I have a vote in

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Speaker 9: electing the president of the National Educators Association, even though

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Speaker 9: I'm a member of that.

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Speaker 7: Yeah. Yeah. And that's like distressingly very common.

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Speaker 8: Well, to be fair to our allies in the broader

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Speaker 8: labor movement, a number of the larger unions, the UAW,

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Speaker 8: the AFL-CIO, I believe they do actually elect their leadership

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Speaker 8: from among the members now. So that's not as big

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Speaker 8: of a difference as it used to be.

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Speaker 13: It is good.

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Speaker 6: Exactly.

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Speaker 8: But, you know, there is still even among those unions,

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Speaker 8: even though they've made that change, they still often will

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Speaker 8: come into a workplace where a group of workers have said, Hey,

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Speaker 8: we want to unionize. They will come in with a

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Speaker 8: playbook and say, okay, this is step one. This is

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Speaker 8: step two. This is step three. And if you deviate

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Speaker 8: from this, we're not going to help you anymore because

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Speaker 8: you're not doing what we want you to do. The

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Speaker 8: IWW is different because we believe that the people who

427
00:24:34,010 --> 00:24:36,590
Speaker 8: are doing the work know the best about the work

428
00:24:37,070 --> 00:24:39,469
Speaker 8: and know the best about what the workplace needs. So

429
00:24:39,490 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 8: we let them lead and we just support them.

430
00:24:41,940 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

431
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,340
Speaker 9: And as a practical matter, because we are, you know,

432
00:24:46,380 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 9: more accepting of the shop floor democracy, we often get

433
00:24:49,540 --> 00:24:52,360
Speaker 9: a lot of union and unionization efforts that come from

434
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:58,629
Speaker 9: places that are overlooked or rejected by the mainstream unions

435
00:24:59,130 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 9: yeah recently of course as probably many of your listeners

436
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,220
Speaker 9: have heard we you know organized an all trans union

437
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,020
Speaker 9: which i'm incredibly proud of to have been a part

438
00:25:06,060 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 9: of yeah the organization effort not the union.

439
00:25:09,900 --> 00:25:11,980
Speaker 7: Yeah and like there's been a lot of service worker

440
00:25:12,060 --> 00:25:14,700
Speaker 7: union organizing which also doesn't mean you get a bunch

441
00:25:14,740 --> 00:25:18,369
Speaker 7: of trans people because guess guess who's doing service work

442
00:25:19,050 --> 00:25:21,670
Speaker 7: if most unions won't organize.

443
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:23,490
Speaker 12: Well, one of the things that I meant when I

444
00:25:23,550 --> 00:25:26,790
Speaker 12: said that, like, you know, we get to represent ourselves

445
00:25:26,869 --> 00:25:29,369
Speaker 12: like folks are talking about here is I don't know

446
00:25:29,390 --> 00:25:33,070
Speaker 12: which major union it was, but I know some library

447
00:25:33,130 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 12: workers locally who didn't get to see their contract.

448
00:25:37,490 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 4: That like I'm using scare quotes here.

449
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,710
Speaker 12: They agreed to until after the city council had seen it,

450
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 12: like until after it had been fully negotiated.

451
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 4: You know, they they.

452
00:25:47,220 --> 00:25:47,460
Speaker 7: Yeah.

453
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,300
Speaker 12: There's not a lot of participation in that sense. I

454
00:25:50,340 --> 00:25:54,109
Speaker 12: think that's what's very different in the IWW compared to

455
00:25:54,150 --> 00:25:54,550
Speaker 12: other people.

456
00:25:54,570 --> 00:25:54,649
Speaker 7: Yeah.

457
00:25:56,830 --> 00:25:57,030
Speaker 10: Yeah.

458
00:25:57,109 --> 00:25:59,750
Speaker 7: And like, I mean, we've talked to NNU or National

459
00:25:59,770 --> 00:26:03,889
Speaker 7: Nations United folks on here have talked about like their union,

460
00:26:03,930 --> 00:26:06,630
Speaker 7: like cutting deals with bosses behind their backs like that.

461
00:26:07,740 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 7: Like not a thing you can even do here.

462
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 12: Yeah.

463
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 14: Yeah.

464
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 8: Because when workers want to engage in negotiations with the boss,

465
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 8: which we don't require them to do, we have an

466
00:26:20,700 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 8: organizing model that doesn't necessarily rely on formal structure or negotiations.

467
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,419
Speaker 8: But when the workers do negotiate, it is the workers negotiating.

468
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,700
Speaker 8: The union does not send people in from Chicago, where

469
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 8: we're based, to negotiate for them. So there is no

470
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,460
Speaker 8: possibility that the workers at the workplace can get cut out.

471
00:26:40,780 --> 00:26:43,540
Speaker 7: Yeah, and I think the other consequence of that structure

472
00:26:43,580 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 7: and of that decision making is that it also means

473
00:26:46,460 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 7: that sort of internal elections are very important, even though

474
00:26:50,180 --> 00:26:56,020
Speaker 7: union elections are. We finally found a kind of election

475
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 7: that has lower turnout than like regular elections, which is

476
00:26:59,540 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 7: sort of astonishing. But Jesus Christ, nobody votes in these. Which, yeah,

477
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 7: is especially a problem in larger unions where like you

478
00:27:09,340 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 7: get these, you know, you get these like admin caucuses

479
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 7: that have been in power for like 40 years and

480
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 7: who suck and who just win on incumbency every single year.

481
00:27:17,740 --> 00:27:18,930
Speaker 4: Yeah.

482
00:27:18,950 --> 00:27:19,770
Speaker 6: And the situation's a.

483
00:27:19,950 --> 00:27:23,030
Speaker 7: Little different in the AWW. Do you want to talk

484
00:27:23,070 --> 00:27:25,510
Speaker 7: a bit about what the elections are like actually for

485
00:27:25,530 --> 00:27:26,429
Speaker 7: and what people do?

486
00:27:26,850 --> 00:27:28,209
Speaker 6: And yeah.

487
00:27:28,890 --> 00:27:29,220
Speaker 10: Yeah.

488
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 9: So, um, uh, right now there is the North American, uh,

489
00:27:34,060 --> 00:27:38,020
Speaker 9: wide election for the North American regional administration. And so

490
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 9: that's electing a handful of people for offices. Usually these

491
00:27:41,619 --> 00:27:46,659
Speaker 9: aren't all very competitive races. Often these are races to

492
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 9: fill committees like the education department or the IW editor.

493
00:27:51,619 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 9: And it's a matter of more of wanting people to

494
00:27:55,540 --> 00:27:58,740
Speaker 9: step up and volunteer to do that than a super

495
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:03,580
Speaker 9: competitive race. But typically GST, the general secretary treasurer who

496
00:28:03,660 --> 00:28:08,310
Speaker 9: is in charge of finances– not wholly in charge, but

497
00:28:08,369 --> 00:28:11,350
Speaker 9: who has a lot of say over finances and the

498
00:28:11,790 --> 00:28:15,250
Speaker 9: execution of the union's constitution, as well as the general

499
00:28:15,290 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 9: executive board that's supposed to act as a check on

500
00:28:18,380 --> 00:28:22,580
Speaker 9: the general secretary-treasurer and being a board of seven people.

501
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 9: It's the sort of highest level executive for the IWW.

502
00:28:27,540 --> 00:28:30,889
Speaker 9: In my eyes, these are people that are supposed to

503
00:28:30,910 --> 00:28:33,750
Speaker 9: be acting in the background, largely, the education committees, the

504
00:28:33,770 --> 00:28:39,940
Speaker 9: general secretary-treasurer that facilitate all of the branches and industrial

505
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 9: unions being able to execute their own local union democracy,

506
00:28:44,220 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 9: you know, and there are some elections there for treasure

507
00:28:46,980 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 9: and whatnot, but largely the democratic decisions are made at

508
00:28:50,770 --> 00:28:55,450
Speaker 9: union meetings. And the secretary for Portland, for instance, like

509
00:28:55,770 --> 00:28:58,450
Speaker 9: his main job is just onboarding and offboarding people. He's

510
00:28:58,510 --> 00:29:00,970
Speaker 9: not in charge of the union at all. He just,

511
00:29:01,190 --> 00:29:03,910
Speaker 9: you know, facilitates the, you know, kind of secretarial work.

512
00:29:04,370 --> 00:29:04,550
Speaker 2: Yeah.

513
00:29:04,790 --> 00:29:07,700
Speaker 12: Also on the ballot this year, like in addition to

514
00:29:07,740 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 12: what you were talking about, Elizabeth, there's the Gender Equity Committee,

515
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 12: which they do a lot of great things, but they also,

516
00:29:14,660 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 12: you know, facilitate like mediations between conflicts and that kind

517
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:18,460
Speaker 12: of thing.

518
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 8: The IW editor, by the way, is the editor of

519
00:29:21,860 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 8: Industrial Worker, which is our official publication. There are a

520
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 8: number of committees, suffice it to say. that do really

521
00:29:28,980 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 8: important administrative work to keep the union running and support

522
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,330
Speaker 8: our core mission of organizing workplaces to put workers in power,

523
00:29:37,550 --> 00:29:41,690
Speaker 8: not bosses. And, you know, when these roles go unfilled,

524
00:29:42,390 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 8: the union suffers. When people who are less concerned about

525
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,580
Speaker 8: the work and more concerned about the status come into

526
00:29:49,620 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 8: these positions, the union suffers. So these positions are really important,

527
00:29:54,340 --> 00:29:57,820
Speaker 8: as they would be in any organization. But Especially here,

528
00:29:57,900 --> 00:30:00,290
Speaker 8: because we are trying to do something that is bigger

529
00:30:00,330 --> 00:30:02,510
Speaker 8: than just, oh, we want to raise, oh, we want

530
00:30:03,070 --> 00:30:07,830
Speaker 8: more break time. We're trying to actually build worker power

531
00:30:08,110 --> 00:30:11,620
Speaker 8: in society. And so we really want to encourage the

532
00:30:11,650 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 8: members of the IWW who are listening to this, as

533
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,820
Speaker 8: we hope many of them are in your audience, to

534
00:30:17,300 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 8: pay attention to these elections, to look at the options

535
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,500
Speaker 8: on the ballot, and next year, consider running for any

536
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 8: office that takes your fancy.

537
00:30:25,530 --> 00:30:25,690
Speaker 10: Mm-hmm.

538
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

539
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,580
Speaker 9: Also, there will be positions that will go unfilled after

540
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 9: the election unless there are a freak amount of writing campaigns.

541
00:30:34,100 --> 00:30:36,580
Speaker 9: So if you can fill those positions, you can also

542
00:30:36,620 --> 00:30:38,500
Speaker 9: volunteer for them after the election is up if they

543
00:30:38,540 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 9: are still vacant.

544
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,530
Speaker 7: Yeah, it is one of the classic like there's this

545
00:30:45,570 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 7: kind of like. dialectic is not the right term, but

546
00:30:48,940 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 7: it's what's appearing in my somewhat sleep-deprived brain of, on

547
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,300
Speaker 7: the one hand, you have this thing where it's like, okay,

548
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,220
Speaker 7: this is a position that allows you to do stuff,

549
00:30:57,260 --> 00:30:59,490
Speaker 7: and there's people who want to do it, and there's

550
00:30:59,530 --> 00:31:01,490
Speaker 7: also sort of the classic anarchist thing of like, okay,

551
00:31:01,590 --> 00:31:04,530
Speaker 7: all right, there's a responsibility here, and it technically comes

552
00:31:04,550 --> 00:31:06,470
Speaker 7: with power, but you have to find someone.

553
00:31:06,150 --> 00:31:10,260
Speaker 6: To do it because... Yeah, otherwise it's just like....

554
00:31:11,950 --> 00:31:16,510
Speaker 8: That's exactly right, and it's reflective of broader trends within

555
00:31:16,550 --> 00:31:21,090
Speaker 8: the IWW as well, because historically we were inspired quite

556
00:31:21,110 --> 00:31:24,290
Speaker 8: a lot by Marxist ideas, obviously, but we are structured

557
00:31:24,330 --> 00:31:28,810
Speaker 8: very much in a very much a syndicalist way. I'm

558
00:31:28,850 --> 00:31:31,450
Speaker 8: not going to say fully anarchist necessarily, but we take

559
00:31:31,490 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 8: a lot of inspiration from anarchism and how we operate.

560
00:31:33,660 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 8: So the IWW is very much a meeting of the

561
00:31:37,580 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 8: minds there. So it makes sense that we'd have sort

562
00:31:41,380 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 8: of problems from both ends as well.

563
00:31:43,380 --> 00:31:43,900
Speaker 6: Yeah.

564
00:31:44,940 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 9: I mean, syndicalist organization as a method generally came about

565
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,100
Speaker 9: after the IWW, but I'm not sure that's really that important.

566
00:31:53,780 --> 00:31:55,020
Speaker 9: So maybe don't include that IDK.

567
00:31:56,020 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 10: Yeah.

568
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 4: I love to get into the history of it.

569
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,830
Speaker 12: You're right that it wasn't necessarily a form thing. I'm

570
00:32:04,850 --> 00:32:06,670
Speaker 12: not good on dates, but like for the nerds out

571
00:32:06,690 --> 00:32:09,050
Speaker 12: there who want to look into it, like the IWW

572
00:32:09,430 --> 00:32:12,030
Speaker 12: kind of was like one of the early voices in

573
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,580
Speaker 12: some of these things, you know, so like syndicalism and

574
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 12: all of its flavors, there were a lot of socialists, what,

575
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 12: you know, whatever their political tendency was, like collective control

576
00:32:25,050 --> 00:32:28,170
Speaker 12: over your working conditions was a central theme for sure.

577
00:32:28,190 --> 00:32:31,770
Speaker 9: Well, I just mean the specific structure of the IWW union,

578
00:32:31,810 --> 00:32:36,630
Speaker 9: I think moreover came about through naturally recognizing the troubles

579
00:32:36,670 --> 00:32:41,770
Speaker 9: that the IWW encountered and sort of created its own, uh,

580
00:32:42,510 --> 00:32:45,730
Speaker 9: idea about how to solve these things, certainly based on

581
00:32:45,770 --> 00:32:48,550
Speaker 9: previous theory, but in a lot of ways contributing to

582
00:32:48,590 --> 00:32:53,710
Speaker 9: future theory that would come from later workers and philosophers,

583
00:32:53,750 --> 00:32:58,690
Speaker 9: you know, anarchist and syndicalist ideas. That's my very brief understanding.

584
00:33:09,750 --> 00:33:10,290
Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess.

585
00:33:11,710 --> 00:33:15,530
Speaker 7: What I'm sort of curious about is, I guess, partially, like,

586
00:33:15,610 --> 00:33:17,370
Speaker 7: what y'all have been up to and talking a little

587
00:33:17,410 --> 00:33:20,750
Speaker 7: bit about, like, what the union has been sort of

588
00:33:20,830 --> 00:33:24,820
Speaker 7: up to recently and then how that relates to, yeah, like,

589
00:33:24,910 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 7: what you want to see happen at the kind of, like,

590
00:33:26,940 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 7: large-scale level of, like, the national union.

591
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,100
Speaker 9: Well, I could talk on a very particular Portland experience,

592
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,219
Speaker 9: but maybe one of the two of you would like

593
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,380
Speaker 9: to talk about the larger experiences first.

594
00:33:40,940 --> 00:33:41,140
Speaker 4: Well.

595
00:33:41,750 --> 00:33:43,930
Speaker 12: I mean, I think that's part of it is that

596
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:48,820
Speaker 12: the North American regional, that it's transnational, spans many, many boundaries.

597
00:33:49,100 --> 00:33:50,700
Speaker 4: And, you know, most of what the union is up

598
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:51,220
Speaker 4: to is.

599
00:33:51,860 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 12: The aggregate of what all the branches and at-large members

600
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,690
Speaker 12: are doing. So I can speak on my recent campaign

601
00:33:59,790 --> 00:34:03,170
Speaker 12: in D.C. going back to, like, what was it we

602
00:34:03,190 --> 00:34:08,430
Speaker 12: were saying before? That there's sometimes the bosses go and make, like,

603
00:34:08,469 --> 00:34:12,209
Speaker 12: backdoor deals with the unions. Well, I'm a canvasser. You know,

604
00:34:12,350 --> 00:34:13,670
Speaker 12: I've got a lot of skills. I've worked a lot

605
00:34:13,710 --> 00:34:15,770
Speaker 12: of jobs. But for the last seven years, I've been

606
00:34:15,790 --> 00:34:16,770
Speaker 12: a canvasser in the D.C.

607
00:34:16,850 --> 00:34:17,170
Speaker 7: Area.

608
00:34:18,010 --> 00:34:21,010
Speaker 12: And the people that I worked for when we formed

609
00:34:21,290 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 12: our canvassers union with IWW a couple of years ago

610
00:34:25,570 --> 00:34:29,740
Speaker 12: on their board is the heads and like like union

611
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:34,500
Speaker 12: industry leaders of our state. And that absolutely played into,

612
00:34:34,700 --> 00:34:38,930
Speaker 12: you know, how things worked out for that specific campaign.

613
00:34:39,190 --> 00:34:41,370
Speaker 12: But yeah, I've seen campaign a lot. So a lot

614
00:34:41,390 --> 00:34:44,770
Speaker 12: of what we're doing is organizing campaigns across the country.

615
00:34:44,790 --> 00:34:48,910
Speaker 12: I think different sections of people are coming together depending

616
00:34:48,989 --> 00:34:49,750
Speaker 12: on the locality.

617
00:34:49,770 --> 00:34:53,070
Speaker 7: Yeah, I guess I'm curious sort of on that level

618
00:34:53,210 --> 00:34:56,230
Speaker 7: where something I run into with the NW a lot

619
00:34:56,350 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 7: is like people know maybe about like one thing that

620
00:35:00,580 --> 00:35:03,500
Speaker 7: the union is doing. doing in their like local area

621
00:35:03,580 --> 00:35:08,140
Speaker 7: and then there's like 16 000 campaigns going on yeah

622
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,739
Speaker 7: yeah that people just don't know anything about so i

623
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,830
Speaker 7: guess what i'm kind of curious about is like yeah

624
00:35:13,850 --> 00:35:17,370
Speaker 7: like what are you taking from your sort of local

625
00:35:17,410 --> 00:35:19,950
Speaker 7: campaigns that make you like want to get involved and

626
00:35:19,969 --> 00:35:22,730
Speaker 7: like what do you want to see out of like

627
00:35:22,890 --> 00:35:24,010
Speaker 7: out of the union from.

628
00:35:23,890 --> 00:35:27,460
Speaker 12: That Mine are pie in the sky. I mean, like,

629
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,489
Speaker 12: my goals are, you know, I mean, first of all,

630
00:35:31,570 --> 00:35:33,390
Speaker 12: I do want to build up industrial unions, but, like,

631
00:35:33,670 --> 00:35:37,149
Speaker 12: I'm hoping that we double our membership, triple our membership, and, like,

632
00:35:37,210 --> 00:35:41,009
Speaker 12: not just, like, growing numbers to have numbers, but have

633
00:35:41,110 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 12: people participating. You know, you were talking about how we

634
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,540
Speaker 12: found an election that somehow has lower turnout than all

635
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,140
Speaker 12: the others. But that can be turned around if you

636
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 12: decide to go out and vote in your local election.

637
00:35:56,060 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 12: And our election period doesn't run for very long, so

638
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,020
Speaker 12: it's not supposed to take up too much of you

639
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 12: as a rank and file member's time. But if you

640
00:36:04,340 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 12: go out and vote, if you vote in the congressional races,

641
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 12: for example, your vote might be represented as one in 400,000. Here,

642
00:36:13,469 --> 00:36:17,230
Speaker 12: you are making a much bigger impact when you do

643
00:36:17,290 --> 00:36:20,690
Speaker 12: that and then take next steps to say, What do

644
00:36:20,710 --> 00:36:22,590
Speaker 12: you want to see? Like, that's actually been my experience.

645
00:36:22,630 --> 00:36:23,989
Speaker 12: And what I've heard from a lot of people who

646
00:36:24,030 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 12: get good stuff out of the union is it's folks

647
00:36:26,219 --> 00:36:28,860
Speaker 12: who say, I think we should be doing this. You know,

648
00:36:28,900 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 12: like I have this frustration here at work or whatever.

649
00:36:32,180 --> 00:36:35,240
Speaker 12: And then you have an avenue to kind of pursue

650
00:36:35,300 --> 00:36:37,299
Speaker 12: that within the union.

651
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:38,860
Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely.

652
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:39,020
Speaker 10: Like.

653
00:36:39,380 --> 00:36:43,140
Speaker 8: The unfortunate reality is that, you know, a lot of

654
00:36:43,219 --> 00:36:45,930
Speaker 8: the people who are members of the IWW are, I

655
00:36:46,390 --> 00:36:49,890
Speaker 8: wouldn't say not awake members of the IWW. They're not

656
00:36:50,350 --> 00:36:53,670
Speaker 8: active participants. But that means that everybody who does participate

657
00:36:54,110 --> 00:36:57,990
Speaker 8: has a massively outsized impact. You have a genuine chance

658
00:36:58,030 --> 00:37:00,690
Speaker 8: to change the trajectory of the union if you get involved.

659
00:37:01,469 --> 00:37:04,730
Speaker 8: And as far as, you know, what our goals are,

660
00:37:04,790 --> 00:37:08,710
Speaker 8: why we're running, you know, my perspective as an at-large member,

661
00:37:09,030 --> 00:37:13,350
Speaker 8: a recently at-large member, because the Houston branch unfortunately had

662
00:37:13,390 --> 00:37:17,470
Speaker 8: to de-charter a few months back because we couldn't find

663
00:37:17,670 --> 00:37:22,750
Speaker 8: somebody who had the time to be branch secretary. You know,

664
00:37:23,270 --> 00:37:25,990
Speaker 8: a lot of the experience that we had in Houston

665
00:37:26,070 --> 00:37:30,010
Speaker 8: was that We were waiting for somebody to come along

666
00:37:30,489 --> 00:37:33,830
Speaker 8: who wanted to organize their workplace. The members of our branch,

667
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:38,049
Speaker 8: we were all very eager to help people organize, but

668
00:37:38,270 --> 00:37:40,009
Speaker 8: none of us were in a situation where we could

669
00:37:40,090 --> 00:37:44,370
Speaker 8: organize ourselves. So I think there are branches like ours

670
00:37:44,469 --> 00:37:47,970
Speaker 8: out there who, you know, the problem that they're facing

671
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,420
Speaker 8: is that there isn't enough interest from the general public

672
00:37:52,020 --> 00:37:54,879
Speaker 8: to find people who are in a position where they

673
00:37:54,980 --> 00:37:59,060
Speaker 8: could and want to organize. There are branches that are

674
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:05,180
Speaker 8: like Portland and like Philadelphia and like Chicago, where they've

675
00:38:05,219 --> 00:38:07,969
Speaker 8: got a lot of people in them already. They've got

676
00:38:08,010 --> 00:38:10,950
Speaker 8: a lot of leads, is what we call them, to

677
00:38:11,170 --> 00:38:16,470
Speaker 8: organize already. They don't need publicity necessarily. They need material

678
00:38:16,489 --> 00:38:19,810
Speaker 8: support in order to support all those leads. So there's

679
00:38:19,830 --> 00:38:22,910
Speaker 8: not a one size fits all path here to making

680
00:38:22,950 --> 00:38:26,670
Speaker 8: the union stronger. But I think all of us who

681
00:38:26,730 --> 00:38:30,009
Speaker 8: are running together, and it is a broader group than

682
00:38:30,050 --> 00:38:32,009
Speaker 8: just the three of us, All of us who are

683
00:38:32,030 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 8: running together want to treat branches as individual branches, want

684
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,379
Speaker 8: to speak to them, understand their circumstances, and provide them

685
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 8: with support that they need to be successful, whether that

686
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 8: is more people to help onboard members and process leads,

687
00:38:46,180 --> 00:38:50,270
Speaker 8: or whether it is better support to use the internet

688
00:38:50,310 --> 00:38:52,290
Speaker 8: to get the word out about, hey, you have an

689
00:38:52,350 --> 00:38:55,510
Speaker 8: IWW branch in your city. If you want to organize,

690
00:38:56,370 --> 00:38:56,710
Speaker 8: come do.

691
00:38:56,670 --> 00:38:56,989
Speaker 1: It with us.

692
00:38:57,810 --> 00:38:58,170
Speaker 14: Oh, yeah.

693
00:38:59,170 --> 00:38:59,390
Speaker 7: So.

694
00:39:00,150 --> 00:39:04,310
Speaker 9: My perspective from Portland has been sort of based on

695
00:39:04,370 --> 00:39:07,750
Speaker 9: the just reality of how it's been organizing in Portland.

696
00:39:08,310 --> 00:39:12,790
Speaker 9: So in Portland, we entered say 2024 or so on

697
00:39:12,830 --> 00:39:16,190
Speaker 9: a bit of a downturn. We had a couple campaigns

698
00:39:16,250 --> 00:39:19,950
Speaker 9: that were moving along very slowly and weren't working on

699
00:39:19,989 --> 00:39:22,630
Speaker 9: a whole lot else aside from that. As a group,

700
00:39:22,750 --> 00:39:27,610
Speaker 9: we put together a strategy to increase membership, to find

701
00:39:27,830 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 9: and create campaigns. and to generally just make the union,

702
00:39:33,060 --> 00:39:38,470
Speaker 9: our general membership branch of the IWW, much more impactful

703
00:39:39,330 --> 00:39:42,730
Speaker 9: in Portland and much more active. So we started tabling

704
00:39:43,190 --> 00:39:46,839
Speaker 9: at any sort of political rallies or You know, queer

705
00:39:46,890 --> 00:39:49,110
Speaker 9: events or just, I mean, any events that, you know,

706
00:39:49,170 --> 00:39:51,710
Speaker 9: would have us and that we would fit for. And

707
00:39:51,730 --> 00:39:54,010
Speaker 9: we would, we began to, you know, sign up people.

708
00:39:54,030 --> 00:39:56,870
Speaker 9: We would talk to people, you know, learn what their

709
00:39:56,890 --> 00:40:00,380
Speaker 9: workplace problems were. And we started, you know, finding a

710
00:40:00,420 --> 00:40:02,720
Speaker 9: lot of leads. We started working on a lot of campaigns.

711
00:40:03,300 --> 00:40:05,350
Speaker 9: We have a number of private campaigns that, of course, I...

712
00:40:05,870 --> 00:40:07,090
Speaker 9: I'm not at liberty to talk about.

713
00:40:07,489 --> 00:40:10,450
Speaker 7: Fun IWW problem of, sorry, we have a bunch of

714
00:40:10,469 --> 00:40:13,580
Speaker 7: campaigns you're working on that no one can know what

715
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:14,540
Speaker 7: they are.

716
00:40:14,300 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 6: Because don't want it getting out.

717
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:17,930
Speaker 10: Yeah.

718
00:40:18,430 --> 00:40:19,270
Speaker 4: Unless you join.

719
00:40:21,219 --> 00:40:24,540
Speaker 9: Even then, we generally try and keep secrecy a priority

720
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 9: so people don't get fired for organizing. But, you know, publicly,

721
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:32,340
Speaker 9: we have the Muji Workers United, Realm Workers United, Real

722
00:40:32,780 --> 00:40:37,740
Speaker 9: You Electrolysis Workers United, Burgerville Workers Union, Friday Workers Union,

723
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 9: Punchbowl Workers United, I want to say. I think these

724
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:44,700
Speaker 9: are all of our public campaigns. We might have a

725
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 9: couple more.

726
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,620
Speaker 6: There's a lot going on. It's going to be a

727
00:40:48,660 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 6: long list.

728
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,529
Speaker 9: And so we've had a lot of success as an

729
00:40:53,570 --> 00:40:58,130
Speaker 9: IWW branch, and we're really proud about that. And unfortunately,

730
00:40:58,690 --> 00:41:02,230
Speaker 9: in my experience, working as the assistant treasurer for Portland

731
00:41:02,250 --> 00:41:08,210
Speaker 9: IWW and as an external organizer helping these unions, GEB has,

732
00:41:08,230 --> 00:41:12,390
Speaker 9: and general headquarters as a large, has ended up acting

733
00:41:12,610 --> 00:41:17,270
Speaker 9: more as a hurdle to us than as somebody helping us.

734
00:41:18,370 --> 00:41:23,180
Speaker 9: Our Realm Workers United campaign got stuck in a limbo

735
00:41:23,300 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 9: regarding the acceptance of it by the general executive board.

736
00:41:27,910 --> 00:41:30,670
Speaker 9: They demanded that we jump through a handful of hoops.

737
00:41:31,270 --> 00:41:34,049
Speaker 9: I forget the exacts of it. Admittedly, I think some

738
00:41:34,090 --> 00:41:37,739
Speaker 9: of them were just genuinely needed. But rather than try

739
00:41:37,780 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 9: and help us in getting everything in order, they would

740
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 9: just continuously send us back with no ratification from the

741
00:41:46,380 --> 00:41:50,990
Speaker 9: general executive board. And Muji Workers United, the lawyers working

742
00:41:51,110 --> 00:41:57,610
Speaker 9: for Muji, were able to put out actually true information

743
00:41:58,270 --> 00:42:03,610
Speaker 9: about how the IWW has had a ULP filed against

744
00:42:03,690 --> 00:42:07,990
Speaker 9: it by the workers working for the IWW. We'll probably

745
00:42:08,030 --> 00:42:09,910
Speaker 9: have to talk about this later. Maybe we won't be

746
00:42:09,950 --> 00:42:10,650
Speaker 9: talking about it too much.

747
00:42:10,670 --> 00:42:11,129
Speaker 14: I don't know.

748
00:42:11,190 --> 00:42:13,410
Speaker 9: This is sort of an aside. And we've had plenty

749
00:42:13,430 --> 00:42:16,330
Speaker 9: of people who, you know, talk about signing up, talk

750
00:42:16,350 --> 00:42:20,069
Speaker 9: about wanting to sign up. And they're like, I love

751
00:42:20,090 --> 00:42:22,910
Speaker 9: the Portland IWW. Y'all are doing great things. But why

752
00:42:22,989 --> 00:42:25,529
Speaker 9: is 40% of my dues going to National when I

753
00:42:25,550 --> 00:42:28,419
Speaker 9: have no idea what National does? And it becomes hard

754
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 9: to justify it when, you know, we're not able to

755
00:42:31,540 --> 00:42:36,950
Speaker 9: get monetary support from national when we are having our

756
00:42:36,989 --> 00:42:40,830
Speaker 9: campaigns hindered by nationals for us, like the ratification and whatnot.

757
00:42:41,469 --> 00:42:45,230
Speaker 9: And when national has been often dismissive of the work

758
00:42:45,270 --> 00:42:51,380
Speaker 9: that we've been doing. And so I saw those and

759
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,990
Speaker 9: I started attending GEP meetings and, And what I saw

760
00:42:56,370 --> 00:42:59,370
Speaker 9: was really disappointing. I think the first GEB meeting I

761
00:42:59,770 --> 00:43:03,950
Speaker 9: was at, one trans woman was talked over by one

762
00:43:03,969 --> 00:43:08,140
Speaker 9: of the members of the General Executive Board. And then

763
00:43:08,450 --> 00:43:13,720
Speaker 9: when another trans woman asked him to be more polite,

764
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:20,020
Speaker 9: he dismissed that other person. And then after that whole, frankly,

765
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,580
Speaker 9: rude incident, at the very least... He never apologized. Instead,

766
00:43:24,860 --> 00:43:29,020
Speaker 9: another GEB member apologized on his behalf to everyone, which

767
00:43:29,219 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 9: I just... Wow. comes off as very deeply childish. And

768
00:43:33,660 --> 00:43:37,280
Speaker 9: I feel like, unfortunately, this immature behavior has been repeated

769
00:43:38,180 --> 00:43:41,900
Speaker 9: over and over by different general executive board members. And

770
00:43:42,100 --> 00:43:44,510
Speaker 9: it seems to be that a lot of them, not

771
00:43:44,550 --> 00:43:48,710
Speaker 9: all of them, have found more interest in common with

772
00:43:48,870 --> 00:43:51,410
Speaker 9: their fellow executive board members than with the union as

773
00:43:51,469 --> 00:43:56,770
Speaker 9: a whole. and see themselves, and have sometimes described themselves,

774
00:43:57,390 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 9: not as stewards of the union, but as its leaders,

775
00:44:02,570 --> 00:44:06,700
Speaker 9: that they have been acting with authority to control and

776
00:44:06,780 --> 00:44:09,259
Speaker 9: dictate how the union is run. I can go on

777
00:44:09,300 --> 00:44:13,100
Speaker 9: about this at length, but it was the disappointment by

778
00:44:13,340 --> 00:44:16,299
Speaker 9: the general hindrance and lack of support from general headquarters

779
00:44:17,180 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 9: and the belligerent behavior of some of the general executive

780
00:44:21,380 --> 00:44:26,259
Speaker 9: board members. That made me realize that there needed to

781
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 9: be members of, I think, better character and greater humility running.

782
00:44:32,300 --> 00:44:34,450
Speaker 9: And to be honest, I don't want to have to

783
00:44:34,469 --> 00:44:39,370
Speaker 9: be that person. But I've always believed that if you

784
00:44:39,410 --> 00:44:43,210
Speaker 9: see a problem, the first step to solving it is

785
00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:46,469
Speaker 9: finding someone to try and solve it. And if you're

786
00:44:46,489 --> 00:44:49,190
Speaker 9: the one seeing the problem, that'll often have to be you.

787
00:44:49,969 --> 00:44:50,209
Speaker 11: So.

788
00:44:51,130 --> 00:44:53,859
Speaker 9: When we started talking about the problems we were experiencing

789
00:44:54,060 --> 00:44:57,020
Speaker 9: as Portlanders and how those problems were being reflected to

790
00:44:57,980 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 9: other general membership branches, I was one of the Portlanders

791
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 9: that raised their hand and said, I will do this

792
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,620
Speaker 9: if it means that Portland can continue to do its

793
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,620
Speaker 9: amazing work. I love the NABW as a whole, but

794
00:45:10,890 --> 00:45:13,570
Speaker 9: I have given so much of my time, my effort,

795
00:45:13,650 --> 00:45:17,390
Speaker 9: and my life to Portland in particular. And I want

796
00:45:17,410 --> 00:45:18,630
Speaker 9: to make sure that Portland is able to do its

797
00:45:18,670 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 9: amazing stuff without having to deal with national. National should

798
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,580
Speaker 9: not be an obstacle we have to overcome or opponents

799
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 9: we have to fight. It should be our, you know,

800
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 9: backup in the corner in case we, you know, need it.

801
00:45:34,620 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 9: And it should be stewarding the union along so that,

802
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 9: you know, these local, more democratic, more, you know, grassroots

803
00:45:42,410 --> 00:45:45,569
Speaker 9: organization of the branches and the IUSBs can do what

804
00:45:45,730 --> 00:45:47,130
Speaker 9: they are meant to do.

805
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:50,609
Speaker 8: Well, I'd like to pick up from that, if I may,

806
00:45:50,670 --> 00:45:51,690
Speaker 8: if everyone's all right with that.

807
00:45:51,910 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 7: Yeah, go for it.

808
00:45:53,450 --> 00:45:58,190
Speaker 8: Everything Elizabeth is saying is things that I think all

809
00:45:58,210 --> 00:46:01,969
Speaker 8: of us running have seen in this current general administration.

810
00:46:03,050 --> 00:46:06,790
Speaker 8: And it is the impetus for why I think all

811
00:46:06,810 --> 00:46:10,330
Speaker 8: of us are running. The culture that we have seen

812
00:46:10,630 --> 00:46:14,310
Speaker 8: of disrespect for members is based on their identity, but

813
00:46:14,350 --> 00:46:16,780
Speaker 8: also just based on the fact that sometimes they don't

814
00:46:16,930 --> 00:46:20,280
Speaker 8: seem to agree with everything that the officers are saying,

815
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:25,420
Speaker 8: is a major point of contention in the union. And

816
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:30,310
Speaker 8: it drives people away from participating in the NARA level

817
00:46:30,730 --> 00:46:35,489
Speaker 8: of the IWW. And I think that is one of

818
00:46:35,590 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 8: the priorities for all of us running together in this campaign.

819
00:46:40,180 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 8: It's certainly one of my priorities. I am running to

820
00:46:43,980 --> 00:46:47,570
Speaker 8: restore respect for the membership on the general executive board.

821
00:46:48,170 --> 00:46:50,969
Speaker 8: One of my major points in my campaign has been

822
00:46:51,030 --> 00:46:52,950
Speaker 8: that it does not matter who you are. It does

823
00:46:52,989 --> 00:46:55,529
Speaker 8: not matter what I personally think of you. If you

824
00:46:55,670 --> 00:46:58,550
Speaker 8: are a dues paying member of the IWW, you deserve

825
00:46:58,590 --> 00:47:02,230
Speaker 8: a basic amount of respect. And that basic respect involves

826
00:47:02,310 --> 00:47:05,340
Speaker 8: me not calling you names. It involves me not talking

827
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:08,259
Speaker 8: over you. It involves me being willing to listen to

828
00:47:08,300 --> 00:47:10,720
Speaker 8: your ideas, even if I disagree with them in the end,

829
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,910
Speaker 8: but being willing to hear you out. And that's how

830
00:47:13,969 --> 00:47:16,850
Speaker 8: I try to live right now. And I think it's

831
00:47:16,910 --> 00:47:23,109
Speaker 8: really important for our administrative officers to live that way

832
00:47:23,150 --> 00:47:26,910
Speaker 8: as well. If we're talking about personal stories, one of

833
00:47:26,969 --> 00:47:30,060
Speaker 8: the issues that I've faced, I was a member of

834
00:47:30,180 --> 00:47:34,279
Speaker 8: our international committee working with unions around the world last year.

835
00:47:34,900 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 8: And we had an incident where one of the portions,

836
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 8: one of the sections of our union, the Incarcerated Workers

837
00:47:42,020 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 8: Organizing Committee, there was some irregularity with their finances. And

838
00:47:46,219 --> 00:47:48,650
Speaker 8: it turned out that they hadn't been keeping proper records.

839
00:47:48,890 --> 00:47:52,770
Speaker 8: And that was a serious problem. But the general administration

840
00:47:52,830 --> 00:47:56,489
Speaker 8: took that as an opportunity to punish them and sort

841
00:47:56,510 --> 00:48:00,310
Speaker 8: of freeze their accounts for while the investigation was going on.

842
00:48:00,989 --> 00:48:05,130
Speaker 8: They could make very specific transactions, but the rest of

843
00:48:05,350 --> 00:48:08,470
Speaker 8: the things that they needed at that time were subject

844
00:48:08,489 --> 00:48:13,330
Speaker 8: to review or not approved. And the international committee, we

845
00:48:13,370 --> 00:48:16,250
Speaker 8: decided to sort of speak up because we felt that

846
00:48:16,290 --> 00:48:18,950
Speaker 8: this was a concern of the entire union. We felt

847
00:48:18,969 --> 00:48:20,670
Speaker 8: that this was a concern of all the members. If

848
00:48:20,710 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 8: this could happen to one organ of the IWW, it

849
00:48:23,410 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 8: could happen to any one of us. And in the

850
00:48:26,540 --> 00:48:32,490
Speaker 8: process of that, I expressed my personal view that Legal

851
00:48:32,530 --> 00:48:36,529
Speaker 8: compliance is not always the goal. It's not the thing

852
00:48:36,570 --> 00:48:39,370
Speaker 8: that we should be always striving for. What we should

853
00:48:39,390 --> 00:48:41,830
Speaker 8: always be striving for is to do the right thing.

854
00:48:42,290 --> 00:48:47,790
Speaker 8: What is ethical, what hurts the least people. And that

855
00:48:48,770 --> 00:48:51,590
Speaker 8: is a sentiment that I believe is obviously that I

856
00:48:51,630 --> 00:48:54,089
Speaker 8: believe is reasonable, but it's a sentiment that I've heard

857
00:48:54,150 --> 00:48:56,669
Speaker 8: expressed by many people inside and outside of our union.

858
00:48:57,110 --> 00:49:00,330
Speaker 8: It's not an uncommon sentiment within our union at all.

859
00:49:01,219 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 8: But because I was an officer, it was deemed dangerous.

860
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 8: For those who aren't familiar, the Constitution of the IWW,

861
00:49:08,780 --> 00:49:11,819
Speaker 8: as well as the Labor Management Reporting and Disclosure Act

862
00:49:11,860 --> 00:49:17,150
Speaker 8: of 1959, as amended, guarantees union members certain rights, including

863
00:49:17,170 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 8: the right to freedom of expression. And despite both the

864
00:49:21,180 --> 00:49:25,989
Speaker 8: Constitution and the LMRDA guaranteeing me a right to freely

865
00:49:26,070 --> 00:49:28,250
Speaker 8: express my views, in this case, this was a view

866
00:49:28,310 --> 00:49:31,670
Speaker 8: that I was expressing. I was doing so respectfully. I

867
00:49:31,730 --> 00:49:33,490
Speaker 8: was still removed from my office.

868
00:49:33,510 --> 00:49:33,870
Speaker 6: And the.

869
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 8: General executive board had the opportunity to overturn the charges

870
00:49:39,020 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 8: because they were in violation, direct violation of the IWW

871
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:47,390
Speaker 8: constitution and of US federal labor law, and they failed.

872
00:49:47,150 --> 00:49:47,569
Speaker 1: To do so.

873
00:49:48,290 --> 00:49:51,549
Speaker 8: And so that was my personal moment of, okay, this

874
00:49:51,610 --> 00:49:55,700
Speaker 8: is the last straw. I have to do something to

875
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,739
Speaker 8: change who we've got making these decisions because they're not

876
00:49:59,820 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 8: putting the members first. They're not putting our rights first.

877
00:50:03,060 --> 00:50:06,390
Speaker 8: They're not putting our interests first. they are doing what

878
00:50:06,910 --> 00:50:08,050
Speaker 8: appears to them.

879
00:50:07,910 --> 00:50:11,770
Speaker 7: To be the easiest option.

880
00:50:11,830 --> 00:50:14,270
Speaker 8: They are doing what appears to them to be what

881
00:50:14,310 --> 00:50:17,370
Speaker 8: the law demands of them, whether they're correct or not.

882
00:50:19,489 --> 00:50:20,189
Speaker 4: Allegedly.

883
00:50:20,410 --> 00:50:20,930
Speaker 8: Allegedly.

884
00:50:20,950 --> 00:50:28,129
Speaker 12: I think you both encapsulated that motivation for running pretty

885
00:50:28,150 --> 00:50:30,110
Speaker 12: well in terms of how I've.

886
00:50:30,010 --> 00:50:30,950
Speaker 4: Related to it as well.

887
00:50:31,570 --> 00:50:33,810
Speaker 12: Yeah, for those who don't know, I am running for

888
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:39,910
Speaker 12: the GEB, along with these lovely people. But my candidacy

889
00:50:39,969 --> 00:50:43,350
Speaker 12: has been kept off of the ballot. So I'm actually

890
00:50:43,410 --> 00:50:45,190
Speaker 12: running a writing campaign.

891
00:50:45,210 --> 00:50:48,310
Speaker 4: Oh, geez. Oh, no. You know, yay.

892
00:50:52,790 --> 00:50:56,190
Speaker 12: But yeah, something that's really important is just like the

893
00:50:56,230 --> 00:51:00,870
Speaker 12: common theme is that the IWW is and has always

894
00:51:00,910 --> 00:51:07,150
Speaker 12: been a diverse and inclusive union, every good organizer knows

895
00:51:07,290 --> 00:51:10,029
Speaker 12: that you're supposed to meet people with compassion and be

896
00:51:10,070 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 12: constructive in your solutions for things. So the GEB does

897
00:51:15,300 --> 00:51:18,280
Speaker 12: many things, but to me, one of the more important

898
00:51:18,300 --> 00:51:21,460
Speaker 12: things that they're tasked with and are empowered to do

899
00:51:21,700 --> 00:51:26,540
Speaker 12: is supporting campaigns, like Elizabeth was talking about, and supporting

900
00:51:26,580 --> 00:51:32,569
Speaker 12: branch formations. So if Andrew's area becomes particularly interested in

901
00:51:32,610 --> 00:51:37,259
Speaker 12: that way again, then It should be that you aren't

902
00:51:38,100 --> 00:51:43,620
Speaker 12: feeling alienated or excluded when you try to access these things,

903
00:51:43,700 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 12: but that you're being guided and supported. Yeah, when you're

904
00:51:47,140 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 12: interacting with your union.

905
00:51:48,180 --> 00:51:49,900
Speaker 6: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

906
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:52,460
Speaker 9: And if we can touch on sort of the legalistic

907
00:51:52,500 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 9: sense for a second, I've seen the GST and GEB

908
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:59,759
Speaker 9: back up their arguments by referencing a sort of reverence

909
00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:04,859
Speaker 9: or respect for the law. And for the IWW Constitution, when,

910
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:09,800
Speaker 9: of course, they're only giving their personal interpretations on the law.

911
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 9: And if you, you know, talk to a union lawyer

912
00:52:13,180 --> 00:52:16,700
Speaker 9: or any lawyer, they will tell you, you know, these

913
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:20,690
Speaker 9: things vary and they're dependent on specific circumstances. And it's,

914
00:52:21,390 --> 00:52:23,970
Speaker 9: you know, a lawyer's favorite two words are it depends.

915
00:52:26,050 --> 00:52:29,670
Speaker 9: Just below this is not legal advice is it depends.

916
00:52:29,850 --> 00:52:30,210
Speaker 6: Yeah.

917
00:52:30,290 --> 00:52:30,509
Speaker 10: Yeah.

918
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:33,299
Speaker 6: Well, it depends also allows you to get out of

919
00:52:33,340 --> 00:52:37,370
Speaker 6: giving legal advice. The one-two punch.

920
00:52:38,170 --> 00:52:43,510
Speaker 9: Yeah. So even if they were experts on labor law,

921
00:52:44,469 --> 00:52:47,270
Speaker 9: they would not necessarily have the correct answer. In fact,

922
00:52:47,290 --> 00:52:50,450
Speaker 9: the matter is they're not experts on labor law. But

923
00:52:50,739 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 9: members of the GEB have acted as if they have

924
00:52:54,260 --> 00:52:57,260
Speaker 9: the final say on what is and isn't legally correct.

925
00:52:57,940 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 9: And whatever they say is them following the Constitution correctly.

926
00:53:02,050 --> 00:53:08,109
Speaker 9: or is them following labor law is just unquestionably what

927
00:53:08,150 --> 00:53:12,940
Speaker 9: needs to be followed. And so they have sort of

928
00:53:13,060 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 9: used that authority to reach their power beyond what I

929
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 9: think it's responsible for the GEB to be doing. Well,

930
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:21,980
Speaker 9: I can go on with what they've done with this,

931
00:53:22,020 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 9: but I think just the thing I was trying to say,

932
00:53:24,060 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 9: I think I'm trying to get at is that like,

933
00:53:27,020 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 9: I think that there is, to some degree, a certain

934
00:53:29,540 --> 00:53:32,430
Speaker 9: amount of legalism that the GEB and GST are following

935
00:53:32,450 --> 00:53:36,189
Speaker 9: that is guiding what they're doing. But I also think

936
00:53:36,310 --> 00:53:40,650
Speaker 9: what they want to be doing is guiding their legal

937
00:53:40,710 --> 00:53:43,770
Speaker 9: opinions regarding matters of the IWW.

938
00:53:55,780 --> 00:53:57,950
Speaker 7: A lot of this kind of comes back to a

939
00:53:58,030 --> 00:54:03,110
Speaker 7: question that we've talked about on this show a lot.

940
00:54:03,530 --> 00:54:08,070
Speaker 7: This kind of fundamental question of what democracy is in

941
00:54:09,390 --> 00:54:11,770
Speaker 7: the sense of is democracy a process by which you

942
00:54:11,810 --> 00:54:14,620
Speaker 7: come together and make decisions or is democracy a process

943
00:54:14,700 --> 00:54:18,380
Speaker 7: by which a group of people is elected and they

944
00:54:18,420 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 7: get to make the decisions for everyone? And it feels

945
00:54:21,540 --> 00:54:23,819
Speaker 7: like a lot of what is being described here is

946
00:54:23,860 --> 00:54:29,339
Speaker 7: people sort of wielding their power to make decisions for

947
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:30,939
Speaker 7: everyone and try to enforce them.

948
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:35,980
Speaker 8: I think it would be fair to describe this as

949
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,839
Speaker 8: a conflict between those two notions of democracy. I think

950
00:54:39,860 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 8: that our notion is that the members are the ones

951
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:50,190
Speaker 8: making the decisions. We appoint people who execute those decisions and, yes,

952
00:54:50,450 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 8: sometimes make very small incidental decisions in the process of

953
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:58,799
Speaker 8: carrying out our will but the people who are in

954
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:02,300
Speaker 8: the regional administration are not supposed to be making decisions

955
00:55:02,620 --> 00:55:05,270
Speaker 8: for us they're supposed to be carrying out our will

956
00:55:05,430 --> 00:55:08,819
Speaker 8: as the rank and file and It is our sense

957
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:11,620
Speaker 8: that they haven't been doing that. So we are stepping

958
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:14,420
Speaker 8: up to say, and we can do this because of

959
00:55:14,500 --> 00:55:17,739
Speaker 8: how democracy in the IWW works. We are stepping up

960
00:55:17,780 --> 00:55:19,759
Speaker 8: to say, it is time for you to go. It

961
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:24,420
Speaker 8: is time for an administration that will follow the membership,

962
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:25,730
Speaker 8: not try and leave it.

963
00:55:26,140 --> 00:55:28,319
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think that's very true.

964
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:28,620
Speaker 12: Yeah.

965
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,850
Speaker 7: So I guess in that spirit, what do you want

966
00:55:31,969 --> 00:55:35,290
Speaker 7: to see the GEB do if you were able to

967
00:55:35,390 --> 00:55:35,970
Speaker 7: take office?

968
00:55:36,830 --> 00:55:37,350
Speaker 1: Yeah, so.

969
00:55:38,180 --> 00:55:41,279
Speaker 9: My hope is to act as a GB member as

970
00:55:41,780 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 9: somebody who is, you know, somewhat distant and partial and,

971
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:47,739
Speaker 9: you know, connects with the branches and talks to them,

972
00:55:47,780 --> 00:55:49,840
Speaker 9: you know, as a fellow member and a fellow worker

973
00:55:50,590 --> 00:55:53,069
Speaker 9: and finds where I can help them where they want

974
00:55:53,130 --> 00:55:57,310
Speaker 9: help and where there's confusion and otherwise just facilitate the

975
00:55:57,350 --> 00:56:01,410
Speaker 9: smooth running of the union without much, if any, intervention.

976
00:56:01,610 --> 00:56:04,730
Speaker 9: You know, I would rather focus on connecting people, connecting

977
00:56:05,110 --> 00:56:07,529
Speaker 9: different local branches together as they can help each other

978
00:56:07,969 --> 00:56:11,060
Speaker 9: connecting people to the different parts of the regional administration

979
00:56:11,260 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 9: that are, you know, dedicated to education and organizing and

980
00:56:14,700 --> 00:56:21,060
Speaker 9: international connections and whatnot. And, you know, otherwise being someone

981
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:23,779
Speaker 9: who helps but does not lead.

982
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 12: Yeah, I think what I would like to focus on

983
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:32,610
Speaker 12: quite explicitly is, like I said, helping branches form, helping

984
00:56:32,670 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 12: new branches grow, you know, supporting the smaller groups among us. And,

985
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 12: I mean, it sounds so dry, but like properly funding campaigns,

986
00:56:42,020 --> 00:56:45,879
Speaker 12: just making sure things are properly funded, not irresponsibly. You know,

987
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 12: I like to look at spreadsheets and I like to

988
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 12: look at budgets and that's a lot of what you

989
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 12: have to do with the GEP. But above all else,

990
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:56,840
Speaker 12: I'm hoping that I can learn. Like it will be

991
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 12: such a privileged position to be in to, like as

992
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:05,029
Speaker 12: my job, essentially, be in contact with membership and branches

993
00:57:05,090 --> 00:57:09,690
Speaker 12: and just learn about what's going on with people and.

994
00:57:08,870 --> 00:57:09,330
Speaker 4: What they need.

995
00:57:10,300 --> 00:57:14,100
Speaker 8: My personal goals for a term on the GEB are

996
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:19,740
Speaker 8: honestly cultural, because at the local level, we're in somewhat

997
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:21,740
Speaker 8: of a holding pattern right now. We need to sort

998
00:57:21,780 --> 00:57:25,930
Speaker 8: of lick our wounds and rebuild. But we need people

999
00:57:25,990 --> 00:57:29,310
Speaker 8: to do that. We need driven people who want to organize.

1000
00:57:29,610 --> 00:57:33,270
Speaker 8: We believe that, frankly, a branch is best built around

1001
00:57:33,770 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 8: active organizing already. So we're going to try and foster

1002
00:57:36,780 --> 00:57:40,330
Speaker 8: that at the local level. But really, for me, at

1003
00:57:40,370 --> 00:57:43,630
Speaker 8: the national level or at the regional level, rather, I

1004
00:57:43,730 --> 00:57:47,890
Speaker 8: want to model the kind of officer I want to see.

1005
00:57:47,910 --> 00:57:50,060
Speaker 8: I want to be a respectful officer. I want to

1006
00:57:50,100 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 8: be an officer who listens. I want to be an

1007
00:57:51,700 --> 00:57:56,100
Speaker 8: officer who will basically take orders from the membership and,

1008
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:59,490
Speaker 8: you know, not do what is convenient, but do what

1009
00:57:59,530 --> 00:57:59,910
Speaker 8: is right.

1010
00:58:00,570 --> 00:58:00,730
Speaker 10: And.

1011
00:58:01,740 --> 00:58:06,770
Speaker 8: That involves, obviously motivated by my personal experiences, defending our members' rights.

1012
00:58:07,430 --> 00:58:12,230
Speaker 8: When something threatens those rights and it is in my

1013
00:58:12,270 --> 00:58:16,460
Speaker 8: power to push back on that, I will. I will

1014
00:58:16,500 --> 00:58:19,260
Speaker 8: defend our members' rights to freedom of expression. I will

1015
00:58:19,300 --> 00:58:23,220
Speaker 8: defend our members' rights to a safe environment in which

1016
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:28,330
Speaker 8: to express themselves and speak to power, to disagree with power.

1017
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:31,180
Speaker 8: But at the same time, I want to reach out

1018
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:35,020
Speaker 8: to those members who I described earlier as being asleep.

1019
00:58:35,540 --> 00:58:37,340
Speaker 8: I want to reach out to the people who aren't

1020
00:58:37,980 --> 00:58:39,990
Speaker 8: taking an active role in our union, and I want

1021
00:58:40,070 --> 00:58:42,570
Speaker 8: to see what it is that we can do to

1022
00:58:42,790 --> 00:58:45,870
Speaker 8: make them interested, whether that's at the local level, because

1023
00:58:46,010 --> 00:58:48,090
Speaker 8: there are plenty of places out there that don't have branches,

1024
00:58:48,750 --> 00:58:52,910
Speaker 8: or at the regional level, and make NARA basically a

1025
00:58:52,970 --> 00:58:57,480
Speaker 8: place that isn't hellish to interact in. Make the NARA

1026
00:58:57,780 --> 00:59:05,260
Speaker 8: level something that members can participate in without fear. Maybe

1027
00:59:05,430 --> 00:59:07,570
Speaker 8: I'm shooting too high there, but I think it is

1028
00:59:07,670 --> 00:59:10,730
Speaker 8: a change that can be made. And I think that

1029
00:59:10,990 --> 00:59:15,050
Speaker 8: every little bit helps. And I think that modeling those

1030
00:59:15,180 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 8: changes on the GEB will help bring them about.

1031
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:22,460
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think that's a fairly reasonable set of things

1032
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:24,940
Speaker 7: to want the national level of your.

1033
00:59:24,900 --> 00:59:25,960
Speaker 6: Union to do.

1034
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 4: No, we're just wild and out there.

1035
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:32,990
Speaker 7: I would like to be able to safely interact with

1036
00:59:33,030 --> 00:59:37,470
Speaker 7: the national level of my union. It is incredibly radical demands.

1037
00:59:38,070 --> 00:59:40,669
Speaker 8: And have it actually support the things that I'm doing

1038
00:59:40,690 --> 00:59:42,470
Speaker 8: at the local level. Oh my God, yeah.

1039
00:59:42,870 --> 00:59:45,110
Speaker 6: Like a national organization is supposed to function.

1040
00:59:45,850 --> 00:59:47,790
Speaker 4: Hot take, organizing can be fun.

1041
00:59:48,970 --> 00:59:52,990
Speaker 6: You know, many are saying this.

1042
00:59:55,420 --> 00:59:58,780
Speaker 8: And it should be fun. And when it's not fun...

1043
00:59:59,390 --> 01:00:01,170
Speaker 8: We need to figure out why, and we need to

1044
01:00:01,210 --> 01:00:03,050
Speaker 8: change it. And that's what we're here to do. We're

1045
01:00:03,070 --> 01:00:06,770
Speaker 8: here to make organizing fun again. Hang on a minute.

1046
01:00:07,150 --> 01:00:07,910
Speaker 6: No.

1047
01:00:08,590 --> 01:00:08,910
Speaker 10: No.

1048
01:00:08,970 --> 01:00:10,180
Speaker 6: That's a bad cadence.

1049
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:10,510
Speaker 11: Hang on.

1050
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 4: Scratch that.

1051
01:00:11,940 --> 01:00:15,420
Speaker 9: If I can pull things back to Raiwu, because it's

1052
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:18,500
Speaker 9: just one that I'm always happy to talk about. All

1053
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,140
Speaker 9: of the people who are on the picket line at Raiwu,

1054
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 9: they were showing up every day. They were there in

1055
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:25,900
Speaker 9: June and July heat.

1056
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:26,100
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1057
01:00:26,750 --> 01:00:29,750
Speaker 9: But they were all always approaching things in a happy

1058
01:00:29,790 --> 01:00:33,350
Speaker 9: and positive way, not because it was easy to do

1059
01:00:33,470 --> 01:00:36,220
Speaker 9: or because it was exactly fun to do, but because

1060
01:00:36,410 --> 01:00:40,980
Speaker 9: everyone there was uplifting everyone else. It was a community

1061
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:45,100
Speaker 9: that had come together and was based on mutual support

1062
01:00:45,140 --> 01:00:48,260
Speaker 9: and mutual love. And I want to see that in

1063
01:00:48,300 --> 01:00:52,180
Speaker 9: the IWW at large. And I also want to be

1064
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 9: able to, as a external organizer, be able to say,

1065
01:00:57,350 --> 01:00:59,610
Speaker 9: You know, this is what we do in Portland. This

1066
01:00:59,650 --> 01:01:02,450
Speaker 9: is what we do at National. And both of these

1067
01:01:02,530 --> 01:01:04,910
Speaker 9: can help you in this way. Not this is what

1068
01:01:04,930 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 9: we do at Portland. And don't worry about National. They

1069
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 9: won't help you, but we'll try our hardest to make

1070
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:12,380
Speaker 9: sure they won't mess anything up for you.

1071
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:13,300
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1072
01:01:13,580 --> 01:01:18,000
Speaker 9: That's not a good pitch to prospective fellow workers.

1073
01:01:18,620 --> 01:01:23,230
Speaker 12: Well, full circle, that 40% goes to strike funds. Or

1074
01:01:23,670 --> 01:01:27,100
Speaker 12: they should, you know. That's a much better answer than I'll.

1075
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 4: Get back to you.

1076
01:01:28,100 --> 01:01:28,300
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1077
01:01:29,540 --> 01:01:29,700
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1078
01:01:30,300 --> 01:01:34,620
Speaker 9: This current GEB has, in addition to other problems, they've

1079
01:01:34,660 --> 01:01:39,669
Speaker 9: also been pretty dedicated budget hawks. You know, they have

1080
01:01:39,910 --> 01:01:43,410
Speaker 9: basically been cutting from every single committee as much as possible.

1081
01:01:43,490 --> 01:01:46,210
Speaker 9: And while I do understand there is a need for,

1082
01:01:46,230 --> 01:01:48,930
Speaker 9: you know, fiscal security and whatnot, I think it's been

1083
01:01:48,970 --> 01:01:51,540
Speaker 9: taken to the point where it's been sort of overriding

1084
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:56,150
Speaker 9: the needs and community decision makings of the individual committees

1085
01:01:57,030 --> 01:02:00,290
Speaker 9: to the point where just a lot of funding for

1086
01:02:00,330 --> 01:02:04,750
Speaker 9: the things that the committees at national are supposed to

1087
01:02:04,770 --> 01:02:08,250
Speaker 9: do and want to do isn't supportive. And you only

1088
01:02:08,270 --> 01:02:11,370
Speaker 9: really get support if GEB likes you or likes what

1089
01:02:11,410 --> 01:02:15,570
Speaker 9: you're doing. I know members of the education committee, they

1090
01:02:15,590 --> 01:02:17,600
Speaker 9: had put together a budget and, you know, a list

1091
01:02:17,660 --> 01:02:20,620
Speaker 9: for what they're planning on doing for the year. And

1092
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 9: GEB said, well, we don't want to support this. Do

1093
01:02:23,220 --> 01:02:26,140
Speaker 9: you want to do something completely different instead? No, then

1094
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:30,270
Speaker 9: we're not going to fund you. It, again, comes back

1095
01:02:30,350 --> 01:02:32,950
Speaker 9: to this question of whether or not you are a

1096
01:02:33,770 --> 01:02:38,890
Speaker 9: steward or a leader. Obviously, no matter what, the people

1097
01:02:38,930 --> 01:02:42,730
Speaker 9: in GEB will have an amount of power. But I

1098
01:02:42,810 --> 01:02:46,640
Speaker 9: think we need to elect people who do not want

1099
01:02:46,700 --> 01:02:47,610
Speaker 9: to use that power and.

1100
01:02:49,270 --> 01:02:52,750
Speaker 9: Who will not take that as permission to have control

1101
01:02:52,790 --> 01:02:55,730
Speaker 9: over other people. And also maybe in the future, we

1102
01:02:55,750 --> 01:02:58,610
Speaker 9: can institute, you know, reforms to decrease the amount of

1103
01:02:58,660 --> 01:03:01,490
Speaker 9: power that GB can take for itself and that other

1104
01:03:01,510 --> 01:03:04,160
Speaker 9: institutions can take for itself, continue to make the IW

1105
01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:07,860
Speaker 9: more and more democratic. The IW is, I'm going to

1106
01:03:07,900 --> 01:03:12,160
Speaker 9: say just pretty definitively, the most democratic union in the

1107
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:17,260
Speaker 9: country and in Canada as well, but it can always

1108
01:03:17,300 --> 01:03:21,250
Speaker 9: be more democratic. And I think that we can always

1109
01:03:21,350 --> 01:03:24,150
Speaker 9: make the AWW better, as amazing as it currently is.

1110
01:03:25,190 --> 01:03:25,430
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1111
01:03:25,710 --> 01:03:29,050
Speaker 12: If I may, actually, this is something that's really important

1112
01:03:29,090 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 12: to me. I don't think there's any place for austerity

1113
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:34,780
Speaker 12: in a radical left union.

1114
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1115
01:03:36,500 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 12: Or any radical left organization. You can't grow by cutting,

1116
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:45,220
Speaker 12: you know? Like, there are many creative solutions to times, like,

1117
01:03:45,430 --> 01:03:49,780
Speaker 12: of downturn, but I think how Elizabeth described it is perfect.

1118
01:03:50,180 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 12: To me, there is a difference between fiscal responsibility and

1119
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:57,200
Speaker 12: using the budget as a boogeyman. I think it's incredibly

1120
01:03:58,010 --> 01:04:01,150
Speaker 12: dismissive and assumes that like myself and my fellow workers

1121
01:04:01,430 --> 01:04:06,090
Speaker 12: are too ignorant to understand numbers when people say, so

1122
01:04:06,110 --> 01:04:09,150
Speaker 12: this is a personal experience of mine that I'll ask

1123
01:04:09,190 --> 01:04:11,030
Speaker 12: for like line items on things and they'll say, just

1124
01:04:11,050 --> 01:04:11,750
Speaker 12: look at the budget.

1125
01:04:11,830 --> 01:04:14,590
Speaker 4: And it's like, well, I did. That's why I'm asking, right?

1126
01:04:14,610 --> 01:04:14,690
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1127
01:04:15,180 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 12: It doesn't add up. It doesn't make sense. There's a

1128
01:04:17,450 --> 01:04:21,390
Speaker 12: huge fund here that's not being dispersed, you know, if

1129
01:04:21,430 --> 01:04:24,850
Speaker 12: that makes sense. To me, there's no place for austerity here.

1130
01:04:25,330 --> 01:04:29,590
Speaker 12: Our solutions will come from other ways of organizing and

1131
01:04:29,610 --> 01:04:30,470
Speaker 12: supporting each other.

1132
01:04:30,490 --> 01:04:34,110
Speaker 9: And this current administration has seen a huge downturn in

1133
01:04:34,370 --> 01:04:37,510
Speaker 9: members and therefore in funding. And I don't want to

1134
01:04:37,550 --> 01:04:39,930
Speaker 9: say it's all general headquarters doing. I think a lot

1135
01:04:39,970 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 9: of these are trends outside of any members control, but...

1136
01:04:44,790 --> 01:04:46,650
Speaker 9: I don't think that it has to be as bad

1137
01:04:46,710 --> 01:04:49,040
Speaker 9: as it is now. And I think that if we

1138
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:52,240
Speaker 9: were a union more willing to support its members, more

1139
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 9: visibly supporting its members, that we would not be having

1140
01:04:57,220 --> 01:04:59,260
Speaker 9: to worry as much about the budget because you would

1141
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:02,460
Speaker 9: have growing membership and therefore increasing funds.

1142
01:05:03,140 --> 01:05:06,630
Speaker 8: Yes, it is absolutely a policy of austerity that the

1143
01:05:06,670 --> 01:05:11,210
Speaker 8: current general executive board is maintaining. And that's their solution.

1144
01:05:11,250 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 8: Their solution is cuts, not growth. And that doesn't work. Obviously,

1145
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:17,960
Speaker 8: growth cannot be infinite. That's one of the problems that

1146
01:05:17,980 --> 01:05:21,030
Speaker 8: we're running into with capitalism. But, you know, in July 2026,

1147
01:05:21,030 --> 01:05:26,970
Speaker 8: the Federal Reserve estimated that there were 210 million working

1148
01:05:27,190 --> 01:05:31,410
Speaker 8: age people in the United States. We are a union

1149
01:05:31,790 --> 01:05:35,320
Speaker 8: of I think the largest estimate we've got is 9000 members.

1150
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 8: I'm not even sure if that's accurate anymore. So we

1151
01:05:38,700 --> 01:05:42,420
Speaker 8: are not at any point of reaching the limits of

1152
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:46,860
Speaker 8: our potential growth yet. And in terms of specific financial analysis,

1153
01:05:47,310 --> 01:05:49,070
Speaker 8: I looked at our balance sheets, which is something that

1154
01:05:49,350 --> 01:05:52,490
Speaker 8: any member can do. And I sent my analysis in

1155
01:05:52,530 --> 01:05:57,350
Speaker 8: a letter to the member bulletin in July of 2025.

1156
01:05:57,350 --> 01:06:01,150
Speaker 8: And from what I saw, I calculated that we could

1157
01:06:01,930 --> 01:06:06,210
Speaker 8: afford to maintain the deficit at the time for six

1158
01:06:06,390 --> 01:06:09,950
Speaker 8: and a half years. Now, that is not forever, but

1159
01:06:10,170 --> 01:06:12,930
Speaker 8: it's certainly not the kind of crisis that this GEB

1160
01:06:12,950 --> 01:06:16,440
Speaker 8: is has used it as in order to slash committee

1161
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:20,340
Speaker 8: budgets and barely touch their own. And it's definitely enough

1162
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:24,180
Speaker 8: time to turn around our flagging recruitment numbers. You know,

1163
01:06:24,220 --> 01:06:26,740
Speaker 8: we need a GEB that can meet this moment, and

1164
01:06:26,900 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 8: that is the kind of board that we want to be. Yeah.

1165
01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:33,790
Speaker 9: Also, one note, I mentioned some ways that we might

1166
01:06:33,830 --> 01:06:36,270
Speaker 9: change the union and improve it. I don't think it's

1167
01:06:36,290 --> 01:06:41,170
Speaker 9: necessarily the GEB's place to make those changes for the members.

1168
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 9: We shouldn't get in the way of change. We should

1169
01:06:44,220 --> 01:06:46,660
Speaker 9: be able to facilitate it when it happens. But again,

1170
01:06:46,680 --> 01:06:49,010
Speaker 9: we're not in charge. We're not the ones changing the union,

1171
01:06:49,030 --> 01:06:51,030
Speaker 9: the membership at largest.

1172
01:06:51,630 --> 01:06:55,330
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's ultimately the workers, the fellow workers of a

1173
01:06:55,490 --> 01:06:58,070
Speaker 7: union who will change it is a good place to

1174
01:06:58,110 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 7: start wrapping up. So there has been a lot of

1175
01:07:02,420 --> 01:07:04,860
Speaker 7: mention of we in this endeavor. Do you all want

1176
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:09,100
Speaker 7: to talk about who is running and what the sort

1177
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:10,220
Speaker 7: of campaigns and write-ins are?

1178
01:07:11,150 --> 01:07:14,550
Speaker 12: Yeah, I specifically would like to highlight the write-ins. So

1179
01:07:15,090 --> 01:07:17,280
Speaker 12: for a recap, I'm Pamela Sweetland-Aulis.

1180
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:17,800
Speaker 4: Hey, y'all.

1181
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 12: I'm running a writing campaign. So that means that if

1182
01:07:21,660 --> 01:07:26,880
Speaker 12: you could please write in for GEB, Pam S or

1183
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:32,860
Speaker 12: Pamela S. In addition, we have John Hollingsworth running for

1184
01:07:32,880 --> 01:07:37,580
Speaker 12: GEB as a write-in and Greg Murray from Portland running

1185
01:07:37,620 --> 01:07:42,020
Speaker 12: a write-in for GEB. So to recap that, Bryden's for

1186
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:47,470
Speaker 12: the GEB includes Pam S., John Hollingsworth, and Greg Murray.

1187
01:07:47,990 --> 01:07:51,570
Speaker 12: In addition, we have a fellow worker who, in addition

1188
01:07:51,590 --> 01:07:55,410
Speaker 12: to myself, was obstructed from the ballot, who is running

1189
01:07:55,530 --> 01:08:01,700
Speaker 12: for the IWOC administrative assistant. They go by Iggy, but

1190
01:08:01,820 --> 01:08:06,700
Speaker 12: I believe their name in red card is Philip I.

1191
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:10,060
Speaker 4: or Philip Iguerto. So, yeah.

1192
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:12,200
Speaker 9: And then you can find the rest of us in

1193
01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:16,550
Speaker 9: the GOB, me and Andrew, both cross-endorsed each other and

1194
01:08:16,610 --> 01:08:19,150
Speaker 9: a whole bunch of other people who are all supporting

1195
01:08:19,189 --> 01:08:21,050
Speaker 9: each other in trying to make this union better.

1196
01:08:21,729 --> 01:08:27,250
Speaker 8: Yes, there is a candidate statement section in the October

1197
01:08:27,450 --> 01:08:31,679
Speaker 8: GOB that lists our visions for the union. And then

1198
01:08:31,979 --> 01:08:34,900
Speaker 8: make sure to check the member submission section for our

1199
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:40,160
Speaker 8: write-in candidates statements. Because unfortunately, as write-in candidates, they weren't given...

1200
01:08:40,620 --> 01:08:41,660
Speaker 8: dedicated space.

1201
01:08:42,100 --> 01:08:45,080
Speaker 7: Yeah we will get a link to that in the

1202
01:08:45,140 --> 01:08:48,680
Speaker 7: description and yeah thank you all so much for being

1203
01:08:48,740 --> 01:08:52,050
Speaker 7: on the show and thanks for fighting to make the

1204
01:08:52,170 --> 01:08:53,330
Speaker 7: union a better place.

1205
01:08:53,610 --> 01:08:55,630
Speaker 6: Thank you very much for having us thank you for

1206
01:08:55,689 --> 01:08:59,280
Speaker 6: having me indeed and trans.

1207
01:08:59,100 --> 01:09:00,000
Speaker 9: Rights are workers' rights.

1208
01:09:00,700 --> 01:09:01,099
Speaker 6: Hell yeah.

1209
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:02,120
Speaker 4: Hell yeah.

1210
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:03,260
Speaker 8: Hell yeah.

1211
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:18,260
Speaker 15: Welcome to It Could Happen Here, a podcast that is

1212
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:21,200
Speaker 15: normally about things falling apart and how to put them

1213
01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:24,600
Speaker 15: back together again. However, as I think you can tell

1214
01:09:24,650 --> 01:09:27,990
Speaker 15: by the opening music, you're listening to a very special

1215
01:09:28,130 --> 01:09:41,430
Speaker 15: episode today about El Chupacabras. I'm Carlos Barrios Polanco. And

1216
01:09:41,590 --> 01:09:45,349
Speaker 15: I'm at an undisclosed location outside somewhere in Puerto Rico

1217
01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:48,340
Speaker 15: where my only company are the creatures of the night

1218
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:51,460
Speaker 15: and the sweet music that they make. Also, my dog

1219
01:09:51,500 --> 01:09:55,420
Speaker 15: is here with me and she's pretty chill. The reason

1220
01:09:55,439 --> 01:09:57,160
Speaker 15: that I'm out here is that I wanted to set

1221
01:09:57,200 --> 01:09:59,900
Speaker 15: the scene for this episode by being in the same

1222
01:09:59,960 --> 01:10:02,740
Speaker 15: headspace and meat space as all of those people that

1223
01:10:02,820 --> 01:10:06,330
Speaker 15: claim to have seen something eating their livestock and draining

1224
01:10:06,370 --> 01:10:10,570
Speaker 15: their blood 32 years ago. And so far, I can

1225
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:14,540
Speaker 15: definitely see why a person might see something, probably a

1226
01:10:14,580 --> 01:10:18,100
Speaker 15: dog or a mongoose, ripping the throats or biting the

1227
01:10:18,140 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 15: necks of their cows than attributing it to something that.

1228
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:22,140
Speaker 6: They could not explain.

1229
01:10:23,420 --> 01:10:25,620
Speaker 15: If you spend any time in the middle of the woods,

1230
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:28,240
Speaker 15: away from the noise and lights of the city, it's

1231
01:10:28,420 --> 01:10:31,920
Speaker 15: easy for your mind to play tricks on you, especially

1232
01:10:31,939 --> 01:10:37,010
Speaker 15: if hundreds of years of colonialism and societal and economic

1233
01:10:37,050 --> 01:10:38,670
Speaker 15: stress have your mind reeling.

1234
01:10:39,530 --> 01:10:40,570
Speaker 6: It would be easy to.

1235
01:10:40,530 --> 01:10:43,890
Speaker 15: Think that something was stalking you out here. But I'm

1236
01:10:43,910 --> 01:10:49,840
Speaker 15: getting ahead of myself. So what even is a chupacabras anyway? Well,

1237
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:53,580
Speaker 15: in Spanish, it's called chupacabras, which often gets translated as

1238
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:56,360
Speaker 15: goat sucker in English, which has always rubbed me the

1239
01:10:56,380 --> 01:11:00,440
Speaker 15: wrong way because it's cabras as in multiple goats. So

1240
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:03,450
Speaker 15: it should actually be goat sucker. That's just a quibble

1241
01:11:03,490 --> 01:11:05,510
Speaker 15: I've had for ages that I'm happy to share with

1242
01:11:05,530 --> 01:11:08,850
Speaker 15: you right now. I'm sure that I must have seen

1243
01:11:09,010 --> 01:11:11,570
Speaker 15: something about the Chupacabras on the History Channel, but my

1244
01:11:11,650 --> 01:11:15,599
Speaker 15: first interaction with the Chupacabras as a cultural artifact was

1245
01:11:15,689 --> 01:11:20,939
Speaker 15: probably the 2003 direct-to-DVD movie Scooby-Doo and the Monster of Mexico,

1246
01:11:21,979 --> 01:11:24,420
Speaker 15: which is like really funny to me because it's actually

1247
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:27,470
Speaker 15: the monster of Puerto Rico and everybody else just ripped

1248
01:11:27,530 --> 01:11:30,980
Speaker 15: us off. I should say upfront that I'm not a believer.

1249
01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:33,430
Speaker 15: Although I think the truth is out there, the truth

1250
01:11:33,470 --> 01:11:36,650
Speaker 15: is that the Chupacabra is fake, a shape-shifting creature of

1251
01:11:36,670 --> 01:11:40,430
Speaker 15: the mind, not an extraterrestrial creature of the night. However,

1252
01:11:40,890 --> 01:11:43,990
Speaker 15: while it's not real, the animal attacks and the hysteria

1253
01:11:44,030 --> 01:11:46,690
Speaker 15: they caused, as well as the enduring obsession with it

1254
01:11:46,770 --> 01:11:49,810
Speaker 15: in some circles, I think, is really interesting because it

1255
01:11:49,850 --> 01:11:53,130
Speaker 15: is kind of the perfect boogeyman manifestation of a lot

1256
01:11:53,150 --> 01:11:56,130
Speaker 15: of the colonial history here and all over the world, honestly.

1257
01:11:56,939 --> 01:12:00,799
Speaker 15: Heard the book Tracking the Chupacabra, the Vampire Beast in Fact, Fiction,

1258
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:04,100
Speaker 15: and Folklore by Benjamin Radford, which was a huge source

1259
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:06,600
Speaker 15: for this episode and was way more serious than I

1260
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:09,880
Speaker 15: expected it to be, there's three versions of this blood-sucking beast.

1261
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:13,360
Speaker 15: The first is the original, the Puerto Rican version that

1262
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:15,710
Speaker 15: is about three to four feet tall with spines or

1263
01:12:15,770 --> 01:12:18,210
Speaker 15: feathers running down its back that also has some kind

1264
01:12:18,250 --> 01:12:21,410
Speaker 15: of reptilian look to it that was first quote-unquote seen

1265
01:12:22,110 --> 01:12:25,849
Speaker 15: in the small town of Canoanas in 1995. The second

1266
01:12:25,950 --> 01:12:29,470
Speaker 15: is more of a dog-slash-coyote-looking thing that's been seen up

1267
01:12:29,510 --> 01:12:32,650
Speaker 15: and down the American continent, but mostly on the Mexico-US

1268
01:12:32,670 --> 01:12:37,100
Speaker 15: borderlands and Latin America. Several corpses of this type of

1269
01:12:37,140 --> 01:12:40,680
Speaker 15: chupacabra have been found in that area, and pretty much

1270
01:12:40,900 --> 01:12:43,080
Speaker 15: every single time it ends up being some type of

1271
01:12:43,220 --> 01:12:47,320
Speaker 15: animal with mange. Meanwhile, the third version is a catch-all

1272
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:50,600
Speaker 15: for any type of unidentified animal that can carry the

1273
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:53,760
Speaker 15: blame for an unexplained attack pretty much anywhere in the world.

1274
01:12:54,430 --> 01:12:56,530
Speaker 15: For this episode, I'm mainly going to be talking about

1275
01:12:56,570 --> 01:12:58,769
Speaker 15: the Puerto Rican version with a little bit of context

1276
01:12:58,790 --> 01:13:02,010
Speaker 15: here and there about the other versions. So the first

1277
01:13:02,150 --> 01:13:05,210
Speaker 15: quote unquote sighting of the Chupacabra occurred in August 1995

1278
01:13:05,210 --> 01:13:09,300
Speaker 15: in the small town of Canovanas in the center north

1279
01:13:09,439 --> 01:13:12,679
Speaker 15: part of the archipelago. There had previously been attacks on

1280
01:13:12,729 --> 01:13:15,900
Speaker 15: livestock that year that had left them with two bite

1281
01:13:15,939 --> 01:13:18,120
Speaker 15: marks in the neck and without a single drop of blood.

1282
01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:20,479
Speaker 15: But this was the first time that it was seen.

1283
01:13:20,500 --> 01:13:24,580
Speaker 15: The woman who saw it, Madeline Torrentino, claimed that she

1284
01:13:24,660 --> 01:13:27,559
Speaker 15: saw the beast from a window from her house alongside

1285
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:30,040
Speaker 15: her mother. And she didn't get a sighting of a

1286
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:32,100
Speaker 15: piece of it caught in the moonlight as it slipped

1287
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:35,090
Speaker 15: into the darkness. No, she got such a good look

1288
01:13:35,150 --> 01:13:37,990
Speaker 15: that she was able to describe it in incredible detail.

1289
01:13:38,930 --> 01:13:42,850
Speaker 15: Her tracking the chupacabra, quoting the book Chupacabra and Other

1290
01:13:42,890 --> 01:13:46,310
Speaker 15: Mysteries by Scott Corrales, which I cannot find an ebook for,

1291
01:13:46,370 --> 01:13:49,370
Speaker 15: so I'm trusting Radford on this. It had dark gray

1292
01:13:49,470 --> 01:13:52,720
Speaker 15: or black eyes that ran up its temples, and went

1293
01:13:52,939 --> 01:13:56,080
Speaker 15: up into its sides. It walked like a human and

1294
01:13:56,120 --> 01:13:59,580
Speaker 15: its arms were, quote, drawn back in an attack position

1295
01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:02,760
Speaker 15: as though it were a TV monster, end quote. Keep

1296
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:05,509
Speaker 15: that in mind for later, by the way. It had

1297
01:14:05,590 --> 01:14:09,090
Speaker 15: long skinny fingers and close cropped hair all over its

1298
01:14:09,130 --> 01:14:12,130
Speaker 15: body and skinny legs that had three separate toes like

1299
01:14:12,170 --> 01:14:15,310
Speaker 15: a goose. It never opened its mouth and had feathers

1300
01:14:15,450 --> 01:14:19,330
Speaker 15: running down its back that were flat. Tolentino even got

1301
01:14:19,350 --> 01:14:21,710
Speaker 15: a close enough look to see its genitals, or I

1302
01:14:21,750 --> 01:14:25,870
Speaker 15: should say lack thereof. According to Corrales' book, she somehow

1303
01:14:26,010 --> 01:14:28,630
Speaker 15: got on the floor from her window and managed to

1304
01:14:28,689 --> 01:14:32,020
Speaker 15: see that its genitals were sealed, even having time to

1305
01:14:32,060 --> 01:14:33,860
Speaker 15: make a joke to her mom about how it might

1306
01:14:33,900 --> 01:14:37,460
Speaker 15: have pooped through its mouth. According to the book, a

1307
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:40,480
Speaker 15: young boy who worked for Tolentino's husband was also in

1308
01:14:40,500 --> 01:14:43,299
Speaker 15: the house and he sprinted out to catch the beast,

1309
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:46,390
Speaker 15: even managing to do so and get close enough to

1310
01:14:46,439 --> 01:14:50,750
Speaker 15: perform an impromptu dental inspection because he opened its mouth

1311
01:14:51,010 --> 01:14:55,020
Speaker 15: and saw fangs. However, it eventually got away. From seeing

1312
01:14:55,030 --> 01:14:59,200
Speaker 15: the covers of Corrales' books, they are truly wild-looking, and

1313
01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:01,460
Speaker 15: from what I can tell, they're pretty much all written

1314
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:04,520
Speaker 15: from the perspective of a person who believes, or at

1315
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:07,320
Speaker 15: least wants you to believe, that the cryptids and aliens

1316
01:15:07,380 --> 01:15:12,300
Speaker 15: described in them are real. Meanwhile, Radford's book is written

1317
01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:15,060
Speaker 15: by a skeptic, a person who's open to the idea,

1318
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:17,780
Speaker 15: but is actually trying to use a scientific method to

1319
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:21,280
Speaker 15: see if the chupacabra is real. From reading Radford's book,

1320
01:15:22,040 --> 01:15:25,720
Speaker 15: He kind of has some serious beef with Corrales. And

1321
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:27,980
Speaker 15: in some instances of the book, you can really see

1322
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:32,660
Speaker 15: the contempt come through. Anyway, dragging the chupacabra points out

1323
01:15:32,810 --> 01:15:37,889
Speaker 15: several inconsistencies in Tolentino's statement. First, it moved like a robot,

1324
01:15:37,970 --> 01:15:41,849
Speaker 15: but then it ran, then hopped, then seemed to float. Also,

1325
01:15:41,930 --> 01:15:44,650
Speaker 15: she was watching from the window, but was able to

1326
01:15:44,670 --> 01:15:48,150
Speaker 15: get to the floor to see its genitals. It's possible

1327
01:15:48,350 --> 01:15:50,309
Speaker 15: that she said window, but she meant like a sliding

1328
01:15:50,350 --> 01:15:51,150
Speaker 15: door in her house.

1329
01:15:51,470 --> 01:15:52,770
Speaker 6: But yeah, it's improbable.

1330
01:15:53,670 --> 01:15:56,380
Speaker 15: Also, the fact that the boy managed to catch the

1331
01:15:56,410 --> 01:15:59,840
Speaker 15: creature and inspect it is wild. And when Radford interviewed

1332
01:15:59,880 --> 01:16:03,500
Speaker 15: Tolentino in 2010, she said that that never happened. The

1333
01:16:03,540 --> 01:16:05,280
Speaker 15: kid went out to find it, but he didn't actually

1334
01:16:05,340 --> 01:16:08,820
Speaker 15: see it. So it's unclear where that description came from.

1335
01:16:09,810 --> 01:16:11,970
Speaker 15: To let the cat out of the bag quickly, per

1336
01:16:11,990 --> 01:16:15,800
Speaker 15: Radford's book, The creature that Tolentino saw in the darkness

1337
01:16:15,979 --> 01:16:19,970
Speaker 15: was actually a half-remembered and more reptilian version of the

1338
01:16:20,020 --> 01:16:26,090
Speaker 15: creature Sil from the 1995 Roger Donaldson film Species. Sil

1339
01:16:26,130 --> 01:16:29,610
Speaker 15: was played by Natasha Henstridge and designed by H.R.

1340
01:16:29,650 --> 01:16:30,009
Speaker 6: Giger.

1341
01:16:30,030 --> 01:16:33,210
Speaker 15: Yeah, the guy who designed the xenomorphs is the reason

1342
01:16:33,250 --> 01:16:38,140
Speaker 15: that the chupacabra exists. Tolentino quote-unquote saw the chupacabra in

1343
01:16:38,260 --> 01:16:41,260
Speaker 15: August and Species had come out just a month before,

1344
01:16:41,380 --> 01:16:44,250
Speaker 15: in July. And if you look at pictures of Sil

1345
01:16:44,310 --> 01:16:48,219
Speaker 15: and the chupacabra drawn from Tolentino's memories, there's an uncanny

1346
01:16:48,260 --> 01:16:51,299
Speaker 15: resemblance there. I know that this is an audio medium,

1347
01:16:51,360 --> 01:16:53,840
Speaker 15: but I'll publish pictures on Blue Sky whenever this episode

1348
01:16:53,860 --> 01:16:57,019
Speaker 15: drops and you'll see it. Part of the movie had

1349
01:16:57,060 --> 01:16:59,120
Speaker 15: even been filmed in Puerto Rico, and one of the

1350
01:16:59,180 --> 01:17:02,849
Speaker 15: first images presented in the film is the Arecibo telescope,

1351
01:17:03,060 --> 01:17:06,790
Speaker 15: a gigantic radio telescope that was destroyed by Hurricane Maria

1352
01:17:06,810 --> 01:17:10,540
Speaker 15: in 2017. that had actually been used to send the

1353
01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:15,519
Speaker 15: first ever signals into space in 1974. Tolentino was even

1354
01:17:15,740 --> 01:17:18,930
Speaker 15: asked about the film, but her reaction was interesting, to

1355
01:17:18,950 --> 01:17:23,309
Speaker 15: say the least. In a 1996 interview with Lucy Pla

1356
01:17:23,390 --> 01:17:28,450
Speaker 15: and José Manuel Rodríguez, highlighted by tracking the Chupacabra, Tolentino

1357
01:17:28,510 --> 01:17:32,660
Speaker 15: said that Sill's resemblance to the Chupacabra was, quote, really impressive,

1358
01:17:33,100 --> 01:17:36,370
Speaker 15: end quote. And she wondered, quote, how can they make

1359
01:17:36,430 --> 01:17:38,610
Speaker 15: a movie like that when these things are happening in

1360
01:17:38,670 --> 01:17:39,190
Speaker 15: Puerto Rico?

1361
01:17:39,729 --> 01:17:40,130
Speaker 6: End quote.

1362
01:17:40,950 --> 01:17:42,830
Speaker 15: I really do not want this to come off as

1363
01:17:42,870 --> 01:17:45,790
Speaker 15: being mean to Tolentino because we've all seen weird stuff

1364
01:17:45,810 --> 01:17:47,810
Speaker 15: in the woods that we can't explain, told a few

1365
01:17:47,850 --> 01:17:50,810
Speaker 15: friends and then forgot about it. But the reason that

1366
01:17:50,850 --> 01:17:53,670
Speaker 15: Tolentino's tall tale became the myth that it did is

1367
01:17:53,729 --> 01:17:58,019
Speaker 15: because the news media absolutely pounced on her story and

1368
01:17:58,060 --> 01:18:02,040
Speaker 15: took it to insane heights. attributing any and all mysterious

1369
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:06,990
Speaker 15: occurrences involving cattle mutilation or unexplained attacks or anything along

1370
01:18:07,030 --> 01:18:13,470
Speaker 15: those lines to the chupacabra. Before Tolentino saw, quote-unquote, the chupacabras,

1371
01:18:13,510 --> 01:18:16,530
Speaker 15: there had been other attacks that were retroactively attributed to

1372
01:18:16,550 --> 01:18:20,610
Speaker 15: the chupacabras, and it slowly became a boogeyman that was

1373
01:18:20,650 --> 01:18:22,930
Speaker 15: at the scene of everything that could not have an

1374
01:18:23,070 --> 01:18:26,900
Speaker 15: easy or normal explanation. I should also say that the

1375
01:18:26,939 --> 01:18:32,070
Speaker 15: name Chupacabras was reportedly coined by comedian Silverio Perez, although

1376
01:18:32,110 --> 01:18:37,150
Speaker 15: that's disputed by some. Shortly after Tolentino's encounter with the Chupacabra,

1377
01:18:37,290 --> 01:18:41,849
Speaker 15: she described the Chupacabra to artist Jorge Martín, whose drawing

1378
01:18:41,870 --> 01:18:44,309
Speaker 15: made the front page of El Nuevo Día according to

1379
01:18:44,350 --> 01:18:47,750
Speaker 15: tracking the Chupacabra. El Nuevo Día is our paper of record,

1380
01:18:47,810 --> 01:18:48,530
Speaker 15: so this was.

1381
01:18:48,610 --> 01:18:49,570
Speaker 6: A big deal.

1382
01:18:50,370 --> 01:18:53,570
Speaker 15: And although I can't find this front page anymore, as

1383
01:18:53,610 --> 01:18:56,309
Speaker 15: a nation we're pretty bad at archiving the past and

1384
01:18:56,350 --> 01:19:00,479
Speaker 15: it's not really easily accessible online. From reading the book,

1385
01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:04,820
Speaker 15: their coverage seems to have been significantly less sensationalist than

1386
01:19:04,900 --> 01:19:09,400
Speaker 15: other local papers. Although, I did manage to find an

1387
01:19:09,470 --> 01:19:14,570
Speaker 15: article from 2010 whose headline reads, quote, two chupacabra attacks reported,

1388
01:19:14,830 --> 01:19:19,729
Speaker 15: end quote. So your mileage may vary. However, the chupacabra

1389
01:19:19,810 --> 01:19:24,550
Speaker 15: reached worldwide fame when talk show host Cristina Saralegui aired

1390
01:19:24,610 --> 01:19:27,370
Speaker 15: a story about the chupacabra on El Show de Cristina,

1391
01:19:27,530 --> 01:19:31,250
Speaker 15: which aired across the Spanish-speaking world. Saralegui even had the

1392
01:19:31,290 --> 01:19:35,019
Speaker 15: mayor of Canobanas, José Chemo Soto, who was up for

1393
01:19:35,080 --> 01:19:38,200
Speaker 15: re-election to talk about his experience hunting the chupacabra in

1394
01:19:38,240 --> 01:19:41,920
Speaker 15: his municipality, which is something that he became super famous

1395
01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:45,080
Speaker 15: for in that late 90s period, and it helped him

1396
01:19:45,140 --> 01:19:47,420
Speaker 15: a lot because he was re-elected all the way to 2004.

1397
01:19:47,420 --> 01:19:51,560
Speaker 15: It was a publicity stunt, clear and simple, but it worked.

1398
01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:55,790
Speaker 15: Per the book, Governing Spirits, Religion, Miracles, and Spectacles in

1399
01:19:55,870 --> 01:20:01,870
Speaker 15: Cuba and Puerto Rico, 1898-1956, by Renaldo Román, he eventually

1400
01:20:01,910 --> 01:20:04,560
Speaker 15: came to be called Chemo Jones because of his hunt

1401
01:20:04,600 --> 01:20:08,200
Speaker 15: for the bloodsucker. It was clear to everyone this was

1402
01:20:08,260 --> 01:20:11,340
Speaker 15: a publicity stunt, but everybody went along with it, including

1403
01:20:11,460 --> 01:20:15,180
Speaker 15: more than 200 volunteers, scores of journalists, and off-duty police

1404
01:20:15,240 --> 01:20:23,710
Speaker 15: officers that accompanied him on a hunt on October 29th, 1995. Wait,

1405
01:20:24,250 --> 01:20:27,870
Speaker 15: you hear that? Is that something moving in the woods? Wait, no, no, no.

1406
01:20:28,150 --> 01:20:28,540
Speaker 6: It's just ads.

1407
01:20:38,450 --> 01:20:41,410
Speaker 15: Welcome back to It Could Happen Here, where we're talking

1408
01:20:41,550 --> 01:20:47,020
Speaker 15: about the chupacabra. Even though not all Puerto Ricans believed

1409
01:20:47,100 --> 01:20:51,460
Speaker 15: in this blood-sucking beast, urban and international media almost always

1410
01:20:51,540 --> 01:20:54,460
Speaker 15: portrayed these rural folks as being a mass of fools

1411
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:58,930
Speaker 15: that believed in mysticism and this extraterrestrial beast. So there

1412
01:20:58,950 --> 01:21:03,009
Speaker 15: was always a very real class aspect to the whole coverage.

1413
01:21:03,430 --> 01:21:08,630
Speaker 15: of this Chupacabra. Per the book Tracking the Chupacabra, quote,

1414
01:21:08,790 --> 01:21:11,570
Speaker 15: when reading accounts of the Chupacabra in Puerto Rico, I

1415
01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:16,559
Speaker 15: often came across phrases like, quote, the Chupacabra terrorized the island,

1416
01:21:16,700 --> 01:21:21,320
Speaker 15: end quote, or, quote, fear gripped Puerto Rico, end quote, or, quote,

1417
01:21:21,460 --> 01:21:25,519
Speaker 15: the island populace was near fever pitch, end quote. There is,

1418
01:21:25,580 --> 01:21:29,930
Speaker 15: of course, some truth to this description, but mystery-mongering hyperbole aside,

1419
01:21:30,310 --> 01:21:32,750
Speaker 15: it is not accurate to suggest that the entire Puerto

1420
01:21:32,770 --> 01:21:36,210
Speaker 15: Rican population, or even a majority of it, was gripped

1421
01:21:36,250 --> 01:21:39,860
Speaker 15: in terror over the goat sucker. Of course, some individuals

1422
01:21:39,920 --> 01:21:42,520
Speaker 15: and groups grew very concerned over the mystery, but most

1423
01:21:42,560 --> 01:21:46,360
Speaker 15: Puerto Ricans, especially city dwellers, went about their daily lives

1424
01:21:46,439 --> 01:21:49,230
Speaker 15: giving little thought or concern to the creature that they

1425
01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:53,330
Speaker 15: had heard about, mostly in backyard gossip and tabloids. If

1426
01:21:53,570 --> 01:21:57,170
Speaker 15: El Nuevo Día and Cristina brought the creature to mainstream attention,

1427
01:21:57,410 --> 01:22:00,850
Speaker 15: El Vocero, which is now a respectable newspaper but was

1428
01:22:00,930 --> 01:22:05,309
Speaker 15: a lurid tabloid back then, is what quote-unquote created the

1429
01:22:05,350 --> 01:22:10,129
Speaker 15: chupacabra in the popular imagination. Per Governing Spirits, El Vocero

1430
01:22:10,189 --> 01:22:14,349
Speaker 15: lifted dozens and dozens of stories about chupacabra attacks, adding

1431
01:22:14,410 --> 01:22:17,800
Speaker 15: details to every single one that in hindsight were clearly

1432
01:22:17,840 --> 01:22:21,220
Speaker 15: just kind of made up. One such story highlighted in

1433
01:22:21,640 --> 01:22:25,280
Speaker 15: Tracking the Chupacabra is about a five-year-old girl almost being

1434
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:28,020
Speaker 15: abducted by the beast, but then she managed to escape

1435
01:22:28,689 --> 01:22:32,520
Speaker 15: And it raised her IQ to a genius level. This

1436
01:22:32,560 --> 01:22:35,900
Speaker 15: story was seemingly confirmed by a police officer at El Vocero,

1437
01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:38,380
Speaker 15: which saw it fit to print. We're going to talk

1438
01:22:38,420 --> 01:22:40,880
Speaker 15: a little bit more later about people in positions of

1439
01:22:40,939 --> 01:22:44,900
Speaker 15: authority confirming Chupacabra, but this was the type of thing

1440
01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:49,440
Speaker 15: that flooded El Vocero newspapers at the time. When I

1441
01:22:49,500 --> 01:22:51,740
Speaker 15: spoke to a friend who was alive at the time

1442
01:22:51,780 --> 01:22:54,900
Speaker 15: this was happening, he told me that El Bosero's tabloidness

1443
01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:58,339
Speaker 15: and propensity for publishing the most lurid pictures of accidents

1444
01:22:58,400 --> 01:23:01,520
Speaker 15: and murders led people to say that if you squeezed

1445
01:23:01,580 --> 01:23:06,820
Speaker 15: the newspaper, it would bleed. Ironically enough, per Tracking the Chupacabra,

1446
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:09,860
Speaker 15: the majority of claims that animals were left without blood

1447
01:23:09,880 --> 01:23:13,380
Speaker 15: were published by El Bosero, without really any proof or

1448
01:23:13,420 --> 01:23:17,479
Speaker 15: an autopsy being performed. Quoting from Radford here, It is

1449
01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:20,420
Speaker 15: likely that if the animal's owners expressed any doubts that

1450
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:23,520
Speaker 15: their animals had been vampirized, the tabloid reporter would have

1451
01:23:23,580 --> 01:23:27,099
Speaker 15: no reservations about massaging the facts and selecting the quotes

1452
01:23:27,120 --> 01:23:30,100
Speaker 15: that would make for a better story. A farmer or

1453
01:23:30,160 --> 01:23:33,229
Speaker 15: housewife who excitedly swears that the goat they found had

1454
01:23:33,439 --> 01:23:36,769
Speaker 15: absolutely been drained of every single drop of blood makes

1455
01:23:36,790 --> 01:23:39,330
Speaker 15: for a better story than one who isn't sure, or

1456
01:23:39,390 --> 01:23:41,570
Speaker 15: who admits he or she didn't really look.

1457
01:23:42,290 --> 01:23:42,630
Speaker 6: End quote.

1458
01:23:43,490 --> 01:23:47,050
Speaker 15: Mass hysteria is often caused by mass media covering an

1459
01:23:47,090 --> 01:23:52,330
Speaker 15: event badly, essentially a failure to perform journalism. Each instance

1460
01:23:52,390 --> 01:23:55,330
Speaker 15: of the chupacabra getting attention made it spread wider and

1461
01:23:55,430 --> 01:23:59,430
Speaker 15: wider until it was absolutely inescapable. Yet very little of

1462
01:23:59,470 --> 01:24:03,290
Speaker 15: this coverage attempted to show that it wasn't real. Any

1463
01:24:03,350 --> 01:24:06,490
Speaker 15: mysterious thing was now the result of the chupacabra, because

1464
01:24:06,510 --> 01:24:09,220
Speaker 15: it was the new thing that everybody knew about, and

1465
01:24:09,260 --> 01:24:12,679
Speaker 15: the creature that everybody was telling you to be very, very,

1466
01:24:13,060 --> 01:24:17,720
Speaker 15: very afraid about all the time. Actually, the animated 100%

1467
01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:22,059
Speaker 15: real documentary Paranoia Agent deals with mass hysteria spreading throughout

1468
01:24:22,100 --> 01:24:24,960
Speaker 15: Japan as a result of a mysterious boy attacking people

1469
01:24:25,000 --> 01:24:25,400
Speaker 15: with a bat.

1470
01:24:25,820 --> 01:24:26,519
Speaker 1: Highly recommend.

1471
01:24:27,340 --> 01:24:29,840
Speaker 15: El Vocero has a long history of making up stuff

1472
01:24:29,900 --> 01:24:33,840
Speaker 15: to sell papers. In fact, El Vocero's first year of

1473
01:24:33,880 --> 01:24:37,820
Speaker 15: publication was marked by another vampire creature boosting its numbers.

1474
01:24:39,030 --> 01:24:43,030
Speaker 15: In 1975, there were unexplained attacks in the western municipality

1475
01:24:43,229 --> 01:24:47,689
Speaker 15: of Moca that also reportedly left animals without blood. This

1476
01:24:47,770 --> 01:24:52,290
Speaker 15: creature was called El Vampiro de Moca, the Vampire of Moca.

1477
01:24:53,310 --> 01:24:56,010
Speaker 15: El Vocero latched onto this story like a tick and

1478
01:24:56,050 --> 01:24:58,950
Speaker 15: published dozens of stories that would come to foreshadow their

1479
01:24:58,990 --> 01:25:02,849
Speaker 15: coverage of El Chupacabra. Although they were admonished for their

1480
01:25:02,890 --> 01:25:06,170
Speaker 15: coverage at the time by editors from other newspapers, they

1481
01:25:06,229 --> 01:25:09,330
Speaker 15: said they were just reporting the stories out Just the facts.

1482
01:25:10,090 --> 01:25:12,910
Speaker 15: Although they later acknowledged it did lead them to reach

1483
01:25:12,950 --> 01:25:17,450
Speaker 15: a circulation of nearly 90,000 in their first year, according

1484
01:25:17,490 --> 01:25:20,580
Speaker 15: to Governing Spirits, which is a fuckton for a small

1485
01:25:20,620 --> 01:25:23,160
Speaker 15: tabloid in an archipelago that at the time had a

1486
01:25:23,200 --> 01:25:26,660
Speaker 15: population of less than 3 million people. So we see

1487
01:25:26,740 --> 01:25:30,340
Speaker 15: how history kind of repeats itself with El Chupacabra by

1488
01:25:30,420 --> 01:25:34,380
Speaker 15: analyzing El Vocero's actions during the time of El Vampiro

1489
01:25:34,420 --> 01:25:37,660
Speaker 15: de Moca. Both times, they knew that by focusing on

1490
01:25:37,720 --> 01:25:42,320
Speaker 15: sensationalism and obscurantism, it could make money, which is a

1491
01:25:42,720 --> 01:25:47,280
Speaker 15: lot of the reason that these myths spread. By the way,

1492
01:25:47,380 --> 01:25:50,050
Speaker 15: if you speak Spanish, the great podcast El Hilo did

1493
01:25:50,070 --> 01:25:52,390
Speaker 15: an episode in March of this year about El Vampiro

1494
01:25:52,430 --> 01:25:57,130
Speaker 15: de Moca called, quote, El Vampiro Entre Nosotros, end quote.

1495
01:25:57,670 --> 01:25:59,849
Speaker 15: That's excellent and was a big source for this section

1496
01:25:59,890 --> 01:26:00,410
Speaker 15: of the episode.

1497
01:26:00,430 --> 01:26:00,490
Speaker 10: So.

1498
01:26:00,470 --> 01:26:05,740
Speaker 15: 20 years before the chupacabra struck, Puerto Ricans were already

1499
01:26:05,820 --> 01:26:09,809
Speaker 15: familiar with another bloodsucker. And although the natural inclination is

1500
01:26:09,850 --> 01:26:12,530
Speaker 15: to think that the vampiro de moca is just the chupacabra,

1501
01:26:12,710 --> 01:26:15,290
Speaker 15: from what I've read, people mostly view them as two

1502
01:26:15,410 --> 01:26:19,650
Speaker 15: separate creatures that show there are unexplained things going bump

1503
01:26:19,710 --> 01:26:23,570
Speaker 15: in the night in Puerto Rico. And that the government

1504
01:26:23,610 --> 01:26:26,550
Speaker 15: was either mostly powerless to do something about it or

1505
01:26:26,630 --> 01:26:31,360
Speaker 15: largely uninterested in doing so. Speaking of the government, there's

1506
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:34,700
Speaker 15: an even older story than the Vampiro de Moca that

1507
01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:38,540
Speaker 15: had already created a strong association between the government and

1508
01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:43,540
Speaker 15: vampirism on the archipelago. First, to set the scene, Puerto

1509
01:26:43,560 --> 01:26:47,300
Speaker 15: Rico has been an important U.S. military stronghold since the

1510
01:26:47,340 --> 01:26:50,850
Speaker 15: late 1930s because of its strategic location that allows the

1511
01:26:50,890 --> 01:26:55,470
Speaker 15: military to project force towards Latin America. The archipelago eventually

1512
01:26:55,510 --> 01:26:58,810
Speaker 15: became an incredibly important part of U.S. military strategy in

1513
01:26:58,830 --> 01:27:02,340
Speaker 15: the Atlantic. At its peak, there were 20 separate installations

1514
01:27:02,380 --> 01:27:05,809
Speaker 15: that occupied roughly 13% of all arable land in the

1515
01:27:05,860 --> 01:27:09,590
Speaker 15: archipelago per a master's thesis written by Robert Jordan in

1516
01:27:09,590 --> 01:27:13,750
Speaker 15: 2008 for the University of Texas at Dallas titled El Chupacabra,

1517
01:27:13,830 --> 01:27:17,910
Speaker 15: Icon of Resistance to U.S. Imperialism. The biggest installation was

1518
01:27:17,930 --> 01:27:21,090
Speaker 15: the Roosevelt Road's Naval Station, which was eventually closed in

1519
01:27:21,090 --> 01:27:23,689
Speaker 15: 2004 but was reopened last year.

1520
01:27:24,720 --> 01:27:25,160
Speaker 6: The U.S.

1521
01:27:25,200 --> 01:27:29,179
Speaker 15: Military also occupied the island municipalities of Vieques and Culebra

1522
01:27:29,790 --> 01:27:32,800
Speaker 15: which they used for all types of training, including using

1523
01:27:32,820 --> 01:27:35,479
Speaker 15: it as a bombing range. Per the Guardian, they dropped

1524
01:27:35,580 --> 01:27:38,860
Speaker 15: up to 3 million pounds of ordnance in Vieques per year.

1525
01:27:39,720 --> 01:27:44,630
Speaker 15: This includes 263 rounds of depleted uranium-tipped munitions that were

1526
01:27:45,030 --> 01:27:50,450
Speaker 15: quote-unquote accidentally expended during a training exercise on February 19, 1999,

1527
01:27:50,430 --> 01:27:56,270
Speaker 15: per Navy Facilities Command. Today, about two-thirds of Vieques are

1528
01:27:56,330 --> 01:27:59,090
Speaker 15: natural reserves that the public can't access because of all

1529
01:27:59,130 --> 01:28:02,950
Speaker 15: the unexploited ordnance there, and its people have sky-high cancer

1530
01:28:02,990 --> 01:28:06,650
Speaker 15: rates compared to the rest of the archipelago's population. I

1531
01:28:06,670 --> 01:28:08,229
Speaker 15: talk a little bit more about all this in my

1532
01:28:08,290 --> 01:28:10,850
Speaker 15: episodes about U.S. colonies, so check that out if you

1533
01:28:10,870 --> 01:28:14,830
Speaker 15: want to learn more. Vieques and Culebra were so important

1534
01:28:14,850 --> 01:28:18,330
Speaker 15: to U.S. military strategy that in the 1960s, the U.S.

1535
01:28:18,390 --> 01:28:21,480
Speaker 15: government attempted to purchase the entirety of the two island

1536
01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:26,280
Speaker 15: municipalities for bombing practice. This would have involved moving the

1537
01:28:26,340 --> 01:28:29,580
Speaker 15: nearly 9,000 people that live there to another part of

1538
01:28:29,620 --> 01:28:34,130
Speaker 15: the archipelago, as well as exhuming all the bodies in

1539
01:28:34,150 --> 01:28:37,230
Speaker 15: the cemeteries, some which had been there for over 200 years,

1540
01:28:37,310 --> 01:28:37,770
Speaker 15: and reburying them.

1541
01:28:40,340 --> 01:28:40,979
Speaker 1: Somewhere else.

1542
01:28:42,240 --> 01:28:46,059
Speaker 15: Because of this wild and weird ask, the negotiations were

1543
01:28:46,140 --> 01:28:52,129
Speaker 15: codenamed the Dracula Plan, Plan Dracula, by Puerto Rican officials.

1544
01:28:52,979 --> 01:28:55,930
Speaker 15: Although the plan never came to pass, per el Chupacabra

1545
01:28:56,030 --> 01:28:59,650
Speaker 15: icon of resistance, this early association between the U.S. government

1546
01:28:59,750 --> 01:29:03,310
Speaker 15: with a blood-sucking monster was prophetic for the way it

1547
01:29:03,550 --> 01:29:07,340
Speaker 15: viewed the bloodsuckers to come. Before I continue citing all

1548
01:29:07,360 --> 01:29:11,599
Speaker 15: the ways U.S. presence influenced the Chupacabra, it's worth noting

1549
01:29:11,700 --> 01:29:16,180
Speaker 15: that the Navy left Culebra in 1975 and Vieques in

1550
01:29:16,180 --> 01:29:20,630
Speaker 15: 2003 after years of sustained and massive protests. And, per

1551
01:29:20,670 --> 01:29:25,559
Speaker 15: Jordan's thesis... Chupacabra sightings dropped off massively after Puerto Ricans

1552
01:29:25,600 --> 01:29:28,349
Speaker 15: were able to wrestle more control over their land from

1553
01:29:28,390 --> 01:29:32,110
Speaker 15: the U.S. But you know what you can't wrestle away

1554
01:29:32,150 --> 01:29:37,170
Speaker 15: control from? These products and services. And also, I'm sure

1555
01:29:37,210 --> 01:29:40,599
Speaker 15: they won't suck your blood out like the Chupacabra, but

1556
01:29:41,080 --> 01:29:42,099
Speaker 15: maybe watch out a little bit.

1557
01:29:45,260 --> 01:29:46,490
Speaker 6: Ha ha ha.

1558
01:29:51,100 --> 01:29:53,099
Speaker 15: Welcome back to It Could Happen Here, where we are

1559
01:29:53,189 --> 01:29:58,430
Speaker 15: diving into the origin story of the Chupacabra. Since the

1560
01:29:58,470 --> 01:30:02,370
Speaker 15: Chupacabra came into the popular imagination, its origin has always

1561
01:30:02,430 --> 01:30:03,410
Speaker 15: been linked to the U.S.

1562
01:30:03,450 --> 01:30:03,809
Speaker 4: Government.

1563
01:30:04,410 --> 01:30:06,890
Speaker 15: The most prominent rumor goes that it was created for

1564
01:30:06,930 --> 01:30:11,130
Speaker 15: genetic experimentation on extraterrestrial life at a secret laboratory in

1565
01:30:11,150 --> 01:30:14,670
Speaker 15: El Yunque, which is the largest rainforest on our small archipelago.

1566
01:30:15,490 --> 01:30:17,970
Speaker 15: Many people consider it to be the last bastion of

1567
01:30:18,050 --> 01:30:21,670
Speaker 15: pristine and untouched Puerto Rico. And while that's not really true,

1568
01:30:21,790 --> 01:30:24,410
Speaker 15: it certainly is beautiful, and hiking the two to three

1569
01:30:24,450 --> 01:30:26,410
Speaker 15: hours or so that it takes to reach the top

1570
01:30:26,530 --> 01:30:30,250
Speaker 15: is something I would recommend to everyone. While the Chupacabra

1571
01:30:30,370 --> 01:30:33,430
Speaker 15: definitely did not emerge from a secret lab in Ajunque,

1572
01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:37,720
Speaker 15: there were definitely strange experiments taking place there, but of

1573
01:30:37,740 --> 01:30:42,059
Speaker 15: the man-made horrors beyond my comprehension variety. There are two

1574
01:30:42,100 --> 01:30:45,640
Speaker 15: big ones. The first was related to Project Plowshares, wherein

1575
01:30:45,660 --> 01:30:49,650
Speaker 15: the Atomic Energy Commission was attempting to quote-unquote peacefully destroy

1576
01:30:50,500 --> 01:30:54,140
Speaker 15: employ atomic explosions to create canals and harbors in Panama.

1577
01:30:54,780 --> 01:30:57,180
Speaker 15: As part of this project, scientists from the University of

1578
01:30:57,220 --> 01:31:00,439
Speaker 15: Puerto Rico injected trees and other vegetation in El Yunque

1579
01:31:00,939 --> 01:31:05,139
Speaker 15: with radioactive isotopes to see what would happen to them. Meanwhile,

1580
01:31:05,740 --> 01:31:08,700
Speaker 15: the second big one is the testing of Agent Orange,

1581
01:31:08,820 --> 01:31:12,349
Speaker 15: Agent White, and other tactical herbicides there and in six

1582
01:31:12,470 --> 01:31:16,530
Speaker 15: other locations because our vegetation resembled that of Southeast Asia.

1583
01:31:17,310 --> 01:31:20,900
Speaker 15: According to a document titled quote, the history of the U.S.

1584
01:31:20,939 --> 01:31:24,890
Speaker 15: Department of Defense programs for the testing, evaluation, and storage

1585
01:31:24,950 --> 01:31:28,730
Speaker 15: of tactical herbicides, end quote, written by Alvin L. Young

1586
01:31:28,750 --> 01:31:32,070
Speaker 15: in 2006 and submitted to the Office of the Undersecretary

1587
01:31:32,130 --> 01:31:35,439
Speaker 15: of Defense. As far as I've been alive, there's always

1588
01:31:35,490 --> 01:31:39,160
Speaker 15: been rumors of creepy things going on in Ajunque. It's

1589
01:31:39,200 --> 01:31:42,000
Speaker 15: a popular spot for UFO sightings as well, which people

1590
01:31:42,140 --> 01:31:45,360
Speaker 15: often attribute to the presence of U.S. military installations there.

1591
01:31:46,160 --> 01:31:49,309
Speaker 15: It's worth noting that El Junque's facilities were also used

1592
01:31:49,390 --> 01:31:52,210
Speaker 15: as a guided missile operations control unit and a joint

1593
01:31:52,229 --> 01:31:55,469
Speaker 15: surveillance site in the latter half of the 20th century,

1594
01:31:56,070 --> 01:31:58,309
Speaker 15: which is part of the reason that people always thought

1595
01:31:58,330 --> 01:32:00,849
Speaker 15: there was some secret spy shit going on that was

1596
01:32:00,930 --> 01:32:05,160
Speaker 15: calling the aliens to El Junque. Actually, my dad has

1597
01:32:05,200 --> 01:32:07,480
Speaker 15: this story that he's told me and my siblings maybe

1598
01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:10,140
Speaker 15: a dozen times over our lives where him and his

1599
01:32:10,200 --> 01:32:12,760
Speaker 15: best friend were confused for men in black at an

1600
01:32:12,840 --> 01:32:16,560
Speaker 15: El Junque stargazing slash UFO event. Because he was wearing

1601
01:32:16,680 --> 01:32:20,860
Speaker 15: aviators at night and a bomber jacket? Just the type

1602
01:32:20,900 --> 01:32:23,820
Speaker 15: of beliefs that can be inspired by something you can't

1603
01:32:23,860 --> 01:32:27,930
Speaker 15: quite explain. The Chupacabra being from a secret facility also

1604
01:32:27,970 --> 01:32:30,750
Speaker 15: ties in well enough with the plot of Species, which

1605
01:32:30,830 --> 01:32:35,189
Speaker 15: inspired that first sighting. Lauren Derby, in a paper titled, quote,

1606
01:32:35,270 --> 01:32:39,610
Speaker 15: Imperial Secrets, Vampires, and Nationhood in Puerto Rico, end quote,

1607
01:32:40,350 --> 01:32:45,280
Speaker 15: says that, quote, The Chupacabras reflects a contradiction very peculiar

1608
01:32:45,300 --> 01:32:48,100
Speaker 15: to Puerto Rico, which is a very small island with

1609
01:32:48,150 --> 01:32:53,050
Speaker 15: an extraordinarily pervasive array of U.S. military installations, most of

1610
01:32:53,090 --> 01:32:56,389
Speaker 15: which are called as top secret and therefore declared off-limits

1611
01:32:56,410 --> 01:33:01,690
Speaker 15: to locals, end quote. Per Derby's paper, quote, disproportionate number

1612
01:33:01,710 --> 01:33:05,850
Speaker 15: of Chupacabra narratives have been generated by the inside-class outsiders

1613
01:33:05,910 --> 01:33:08,750
Speaker 15: who have some access to the secrets of power or

1614
01:33:08,810 --> 01:33:11,939
Speaker 15: police its margins. Those who are close enough to touch

1615
01:33:11,979 --> 01:33:15,360
Speaker 15: the walls and halls of power, comma, the skin of

1616
01:33:15,420 --> 01:33:19,870
Speaker 15: the secrets and yet are still denied real access, end quote.

1617
01:33:20,490 --> 01:33:23,670
Speaker 15: These are mostly retired army personnel or police. I would

1618
01:33:23,689 --> 01:33:26,769
Speaker 15: wager to guess that like many other cryptids, the tail

1619
01:33:26,790 --> 01:33:30,350
Speaker 15: of the chupacabra was used whether consciously or unconsciously to

1620
01:33:30,390 --> 01:33:34,330
Speaker 15: keep people away from these restricted government areas. Essentially, el

1621
01:33:34,790 --> 01:33:39,189
Speaker 15: chupacabra was a psyop. You heard it here first. Tales

1622
01:33:39,390 --> 01:33:43,599
Speaker 15: of government experimentation weigh heavy on the Puerto Rican mind.

1623
01:33:43,720 --> 01:33:47,740
Speaker 15: In 1941, the American doctor Cornelius Rhodes, who worked on

1624
01:33:47,780 --> 01:33:50,960
Speaker 15: Puerto Rican patients, wrote a letter saying that he had, quote,

1625
01:33:51,240 --> 01:33:54,520
Speaker 15: done his best to further the process of extermination by

1626
01:33:54,600 --> 01:33:59,200
Speaker 15: killing eight and transplanting cancer into several more. Although an

1627
01:33:59,270 --> 01:34:03,810
Speaker 15: investigation found no evidence of unethical human experimentation, The rumor

1628
01:34:04,090 --> 01:34:07,950
Speaker 15: that he did inject people with cancer cells remains very

1629
01:34:08,070 --> 01:34:12,150
Speaker 15: permanent in Puerto Rican society. Meanwhile, between the 1930s and

1630
01:34:12,170 --> 01:34:15,689
Speaker 15: the 1970s, Puerto Rican officials, with support of the U.S. government,

1631
01:34:15,710 --> 01:34:20,150
Speaker 15: pushed a massive campaign of sterilization because of fears of overpopulation.

1632
01:34:21,250 --> 01:34:24,150
Speaker 15: Women who got la operación, the operation, as it was

1633
01:34:24,210 --> 01:34:27,969
Speaker 15: colloquially called, were promised a solution to poverty and economic stability.

1634
01:34:28,550 --> 01:34:31,479
Speaker 15: Many were also led to believe that the operation was reversible.

1635
01:34:31,939 --> 01:34:34,300
Speaker 15: but this proved not to be the case. About a

1636
01:34:34,380 --> 01:34:37,599
Speaker 15: third of Puerto Rican women of childbearing age were sterilized

1637
01:34:37,800 --> 01:34:41,100
Speaker 15: during that time. There's a very good documentary that I'll

1638
01:34:41,120 --> 01:34:44,479
Speaker 15: link in the sources called La Operación by Ana María

1639
01:34:44,520 --> 01:34:48,100
Speaker 15: García that talks about the sterilization campaign. Really recommend you

1640
01:34:48,120 --> 01:34:50,360
Speaker 15: take a look at it if you're interested in more context.

1641
01:34:51,340 --> 01:34:54,420
Speaker 15: Although both the peak of militarism and La Operación happened

1642
01:34:54,500 --> 01:34:58,540
Speaker 15: decades before the first Chupacabra sighting, it's within this blaze

1643
01:34:58,580 --> 01:35:02,460
Speaker 15: of government secrets and conspiracy and U.S. colonialism that tall

1644
01:35:02,520 --> 01:35:04,860
Speaker 15: tales of the Chupacabra bursting out of the woods and

1645
01:35:04,900 --> 01:35:08,589
Speaker 15: laying waste to livestock came about all throughout the archipelago.

1646
01:35:09,560 --> 01:35:13,310
Speaker 15: It's worth highlighting that economically and socially, things were not

1647
01:35:13,370 --> 01:35:15,430
Speaker 15: going very well for Puerto Ricans at the time that

1648
01:35:15,450 --> 01:35:19,510
Speaker 15: the Chupacabra myth started. The archipelago had been undergoing a

1649
01:35:19,550 --> 01:35:23,940
Speaker 15: drought that lasted from mid-1994 to 1997, per reporting from

1650
01:35:23,990 --> 01:35:27,610
Speaker 15: El Vocero. It's respectable now, I swear. This drought was

1651
01:35:27,670 --> 01:35:29,790
Speaker 15: one of the worst for PR in the 20th century,

1652
01:35:30,030 --> 01:35:33,490
Speaker 15: and it reached its peak in 1995. It caused 300

1653
01:35:33,490 --> 01:35:37,650
Speaker 15: million in damages, and approximately 165 million corresponded to the

1654
01:35:37,729 --> 01:35:41,700
Speaker 15: agricultural sector, aka the rural communities who owned the livestock

1655
01:35:41,760 --> 01:35:45,460
Speaker 15: that was being attacked by the Chupacabras. Meanwhile, a hurricane

1656
01:35:45,760 --> 01:35:49,720
Speaker 15: was also bearing down on the archipelago in 1995. Hurricane

1657
01:35:49,760 --> 01:35:53,930
Speaker 15: Mariling hit Puerto Rico in September 1995 and as a

1658
01:35:53,970 --> 01:35:58,550
Speaker 15: Category 2 hurricane and caused about $ 2. 5 billion in damages

1659
01:35:59,290 --> 01:36:02,520
Speaker 15: between PR and the U.S. Virgin Islands and 13 deaths

1660
01:36:02,640 --> 01:36:06,439
Speaker 15: between the two. At the same time, rural communities who

1661
01:36:06,479 --> 01:36:09,860
Speaker 15: largely depended on agriculture to sustain themselves had been forced

1662
01:36:09,880 --> 01:36:13,000
Speaker 15: to leave that work behind and move towards industrial jobs

1663
01:36:13,100 --> 01:36:16,760
Speaker 15: as part of Operation Bootstrap. This fragmentation was built on

1664
01:36:16,800 --> 01:36:19,500
Speaker 15: by the encroachment of urbanism throughout much of the region

1665
01:36:19,560 --> 01:36:23,510
Speaker 15: surrounding the capital municipality of San Juan. It's important to

1666
01:36:23,590 --> 01:36:27,220
Speaker 15: point out that Canovanas has experienced marked urban and commercial

1667
01:36:27,270 --> 01:36:29,940
Speaker 15: development over the past 30 or 40 years, to the

1668
01:36:30,000 --> 01:36:32,360
Speaker 15: point that what the municipality is most known for to

1669
01:36:32,400 --> 01:36:35,260
Speaker 15: people like me who don't live there is because of

1670
01:36:35,360 --> 01:36:40,280
Speaker 15: its gigantic outlet mall that started construction in 1998. Meanwhile,

1671
01:36:40,300 --> 01:36:44,600
Speaker 15: Orocovis and Morovis, where the first unexplained livestock attack happened,

1672
01:36:44,800 --> 01:36:48,059
Speaker 15: are still isolated rural communities that have been more or

1673
01:36:48,120 --> 01:36:51,730
Speaker 15: less forgotten by the central government. to the point that

1674
01:36:51,850 --> 01:36:55,390
Speaker 15: in 2019, Morovis had to sue our central water utility

1675
01:36:55,470 --> 01:36:59,170
Speaker 15: because of continued lack of access to potable water. So

1676
01:36:59,490 --> 01:37:03,340
Speaker 15: when rural communities composed mostly of lower or middle class

1677
01:37:03,400 --> 01:37:07,700
Speaker 15: people started seeing their livestock, a kind of physical manifestation

1678
01:37:07,760 --> 01:37:10,939
Speaker 15: of what little wealth they had, being attacked by something,

1679
01:37:11,439 --> 01:37:14,540
Speaker 15: it caused a panic. And within that panic, the Chupacabra

1680
01:37:14,640 --> 01:37:17,550
Speaker 15: emerged as the quote-unquote real thing that was hurting them,

1681
01:37:18,070 --> 01:37:22,689
Speaker 15: that they could theoretically find and stop, versus the growing environmental, societal,

1682
01:37:22,729 --> 01:37:26,189
Speaker 15: and economic crisis built on top of centuries of colonialism.

1683
01:37:26,890 --> 01:37:29,930
Speaker 15: Through the creation of the chupacabra, people were able to

1684
01:37:29,990 --> 01:37:33,580
Speaker 15: maintain their collective identity and impose a sense of control

1685
01:37:34,280 --> 01:37:38,979
Speaker 15: at a point where they felt powerless. Per tracking the chupacabra, quote,

1686
01:37:39,140 --> 01:37:42,700
Speaker 15: it was within this desperate environment of perceived U.S. intrusion

1687
01:37:42,800 --> 01:37:46,110
Speaker 15: and imperialism that the symbol of the chupacabra became the

1688
01:37:46,150 --> 01:37:48,790
Speaker 15: vessel into which many of the rural people of Puerto

1689
01:37:48,810 --> 01:37:52,589
Speaker 15: Rico poured all their fears and apprehensions about the strange

1690
01:37:52,650 --> 01:37:57,050
Speaker 15: industrial world seemingly thrust upon them by the United States. However,

1691
01:37:57,250 --> 01:38:00,220
Speaker 15: those rural municipalities of Puerto Rico where the U.S. lacked

1692
01:38:00,300 --> 01:38:03,520
Speaker 15: a major military or economic presence during this drought period

1693
01:38:03,700 --> 01:38:07,980
Speaker 15: did not receive any visits from the Chupacabra. Furthermore, large

1694
01:38:08,100 --> 01:38:11,420
Speaker 15: urban areas such as San Juan, where industrial or service-based

1695
01:38:11,460 --> 01:38:14,600
Speaker 15: livelihoods were less affected by the drought found elsewhere in

1696
01:38:14,620 --> 01:38:18,510
Speaker 15: the country, did not report sightings of the creature, end quote.

1697
01:38:19,470 --> 01:38:22,389
Speaker 15: In a sense, the creation of the Chupacabra also left

1698
01:38:22,430 --> 01:38:24,930
Speaker 15: the government that was not doing anything at all about

1699
01:38:24,950 --> 01:38:28,650
Speaker 15: the crisis its people were facing off the hook. For

1700
01:38:28,689 --> 01:38:30,730
Speaker 15: Chemo Jones, he even used it as a way to

1701
01:38:30,810 --> 01:38:34,780
Speaker 15: ride into re-election for free more cycles. However, for the

1702
01:38:34,840 --> 01:38:38,180
Speaker 15: people actually affected by the drought and the random attacks

1703
01:38:38,240 --> 01:38:42,519
Speaker 15: on their livestock, probably by wild dogs, the Chupacabra was

1704
01:38:42,580 --> 01:38:45,180
Speaker 15: a way to explain their misery, but it didn't provide

1705
01:38:45,240 --> 01:38:47,900
Speaker 15: a solution to their problems. They were left to fester

1706
01:38:48,100 --> 01:38:51,700
Speaker 15: and just have to take even more pressure onto themselves.

1707
01:38:52,660 --> 01:38:56,030
Speaker 15: The other countries in Latin America where Chupacabra sightings were

1708
01:38:56,110 --> 01:38:59,950
Speaker 15: also reported after the Cristina show aired were also suffering

1709
01:38:59,990 --> 01:39:04,330
Speaker 15: from economic and social turmoil at the time. In Mexico,

1710
01:39:04,390 --> 01:39:07,979
Speaker 15: the agricultural industry was suffering because of the passage of

1711
01:39:08,020 --> 01:39:11,720
Speaker 15: the North American Free Trade Agreement. Per an essay by

1712
01:39:11,780 --> 01:39:17,420
Speaker 15: William Calvoquiros titled Sucking Vulnerability, Neoliberalism, the Chupacabras, and the

1713
01:39:17,500 --> 01:39:22,090
Speaker 15: Post-Cold War Years, NAFTA caused the Mexican government to change

1714
01:39:22,130 --> 01:39:26,310
Speaker 15: their constitution to allow the privatization of communal land, which

1715
01:39:26,390 --> 01:39:31,840
Speaker 15: displaced several rural communities. It also deregulated import restrictions and

1716
01:39:31,939 --> 01:39:35,799
Speaker 15: caused an increase in unemployment. The reality of a monster

1717
01:39:35,840 --> 01:39:39,600
Speaker 15: attacking them was undeniable. It wasn't just chickens and goats,

1718
01:39:39,740 --> 01:39:44,320
Speaker 15: but entire communities were displaced because of NAFTA. Similar things

1719
01:39:44,360 --> 01:39:46,760
Speaker 15: were happening up and down the American continent.

1720
01:39:47,380 --> 01:39:47,939
Speaker 6: In the U.S.

1721
01:39:48,000 --> 01:39:51,349
Speaker 15: Borderlands, the myth of the Chupacabra came to embody the

1722
01:39:51,390 --> 01:39:55,950
Speaker 15: government's war against the welfare state and rising anti-immigration sentiment.

1723
01:39:56,729 --> 01:40:00,850
Speaker 15: The historian Mike Davis described the Chupacabra phenomenon in California

1724
01:40:00,970 --> 01:40:04,600
Speaker 15: as a byproduct of the increasingly hostile environment for migrants

1725
01:40:05,220 --> 01:40:07,680
Speaker 15: and the violence that the state was imposing on them.

1726
01:40:08,540 --> 01:40:13,120
Speaker 15: Quoting Calvoquiros here, at a base level, monsters and the

1727
01:40:13,180 --> 01:40:18,310
Speaker 15: phantasmagoric allow for the out-of-this-world atrocious experiences in daily life

1728
01:40:18,370 --> 01:40:21,370
Speaker 15: to become a collective spectacle that comes to represent the

1729
01:40:21,450 --> 01:40:24,990
Speaker 15: social relations and realities imposed over the community.

1730
01:40:25,930 --> 01:40:26,850
Speaker 1: Therefore, as a.

1731
01:40:26,850 --> 01:40:31,030
Speaker 15: Collective entity, the Chupacabras calls attention to the atrocities experienced

1732
01:40:31,110 --> 01:40:34,150
Speaker 15: by small farmers and those at the vulnerable and peripheral

1733
01:40:34,229 --> 01:40:39,210
Speaker 15: edges of society. As Jordan talks about in his thesis,

1734
01:40:39,790 --> 01:40:42,110
Speaker 15: the chupacabras can also be seen as a symbol of

1735
01:40:42,180 --> 01:40:45,360
Speaker 15: resistance against the very imperialism that kind of created it.

1736
01:40:45,920 --> 01:40:48,680
Speaker 15: The chupacabras was a creature so powerful that it could

1737
01:40:48,740 --> 01:40:52,180
Speaker 15: escape the ever-present eye of the state and the encroaching

1738
01:40:52,220 --> 01:40:55,660
Speaker 15: militarism that was affecting Puerto Rico at the time the

1739
01:40:55,700 --> 01:41:00,430
Speaker 15: alleged sightings were happening. Culturally, this has remolded the chupacabra

1740
01:41:00,470 --> 01:41:03,210
Speaker 15: from predator of the night to protector in some stories,

1741
01:41:03,490 --> 01:41:06,670
Speaker 15: like the comic Beast of Boricang. but that Chupacabras is

1742
01:41:06,750 --> 01:41:11,660
Speaker 15: actually physically fighting colonialism. To wrap up, Puerto Rico has

1743
01:41:11,760 --> 01:41:15,360
Speaker 15: always had vampires on it, except that they've never been beasts.

1744
01:41:16,160 --> 01:41:19,240
Speaker 15: The most visible of these vampires is the simple mosquito,

1745
01:41:19,260 --> 01:41:22,300
Speaker 15: a vicious bloodsucker that I've been attacked by at least

1746
01:41:22,500 --> 01:41:25,320
Speaker 15: once in the course of writing this essay. It is

1747
01:41:25,360 --> 01:41:27,820
Speaker 15: the deadliest animal in the world and is a victim

1748
01:41:27,850 --> 01:41:32,190
Speaker 15: of dengue fever in my youth. That shit sucks ass. Meanwhile,

1749
01:41:32,470 --> 01:41:36,840
Speaker 15: the second vampire is the continued colonization of the archipelago

1750
01:41:36,900 --> 01:41:39,960
Speaker 15: that has stripped it of so many resources for centuries

1751
01:41:40,620 --> 01:41:44,460
Speaker 15: and continues to do so to this day. Colonialism has

1752
01:41:44,520 --> 01:41:48,120
Speaker 15: always been vampiric, extracting as much as it can with

1753
01:41:48,160 --> 01:41:50,790
Speaker 15: little care to the corpses it leaves in its wake.

1754
01:41:51,410 --> 01:41:54,290
Speaker 15: Although the Chupacabra mass hysteria died down at the turn

1755
01:41:54,310 --> 01:41:57,590
Speaker 15: of the century, the forces that shaped its creation are

1756
01:41:57,650 --> 01:42:01,630
Speaker 15: still here and they've become even more acute. Whether it

1757
01:42:01,670 --> 01:42:05,230
Speaker 15: be the unelected fiscal control board imposed by the U.S. government,

1758
01:42:05,970 --> 01:42:09,490
Speaker 15: or corrupt Puerto Rican officials, there have always been vampires

1759
01:42:09,550 --> 01:42:13,470
Speaker 15: walking among us. They're just not beasts. They look just

1760
01:42:13,530 --> 01:42:16,310
Speaker 15: like us, and their system of oppression has harmed more

1761
01:42:16,870 --> 01:42:21,190
Speaker 15: than any single chupacabra ever could. Thanks for listening. You

1762
01:42:21,229 --> 01:42:25,530
Speaker 15: can find me pretty much everywhere online, at Vaquero2XL. That's

1763
01:42:26,130 --> 01:42:26,430
Speaker 15: about it.

1764
01:42:37,540 --> 01:42:45,769
Speaker 5: Hello and welcome to It Could Happen Here. My name

1765
01:42:45,830 --> 01:42:48,530
Speaker 5: is Kim Kelly and I'll be your host for today's episode.

1766
01:42:49,290 --> 01:42:51,110
Speaker 5: I'm a labor journalist and the author of a book

1767
01:42:51,150 --> 01:42:53,880
Speaker 5: called Fight Like Hell, The Untold History of American Labor.

1768
01:42:54,580 --> 01:42:57,260
Speaker 5: One of my self-styled superpowers is finding a way to

1769
01:42:57,320 --> 01:43:00,970
Speaker 5: link labor history with present day goings on. I'm not

1770
01:43:00,990 --> 01:43:03,530
Speaker 5: an official historian, but I've read a lot of books

1771
01:43:03,970 --> 01:43:06,210
Speaker 5: and talked to a lot of workers, and that's how

1772
01:43:06,229 --> 01:43:08,930
Speaker 5: you find all the good stuff anyway. I like to

1773
01:43:08,990 --> 01:43:11,750
Speaker 5: say that every story is a labor story, and that

1774
01:43:11,810 --> 01:43:15,710
Speaker 5: ethos can be applied to basically any scenario, especially if

1775
01:43:15,729 --> 01:43:19,550
Speaker 5: you dig down deep enough. Autumn has finally come to

1776
01:43:19,570 --> 01:43:24,570
Speaker 5: the East Coast. I'm talking leather weather, dead leaves, cool temperatures,

1777
01:43:24,950 --> 01:43:28,030
Speaker 5: and a blessed end to the infernal sunshine that has

1778
01:43:28,110 --> 01:43:31,350
Speaker 5: plagued my days for so long. Those of us in

1779
01:43:31,390 --> 01:43:33,530
Speaker 5: my neck of the woods are preparing for mischief night,

1780
01:43:34,070 --> 01:43:37,590
Speaker 5: and Halloween itself is only a few nights away. It's

1781
01:43:37,610 --> 01:43:40,059
Speaker 5: a good time to tell stories around a campfire or

1782
01:43:40,070 --> 01:43:43,160
Speaker 5: in a darkened room. Though, if your spirit cat is

1783
01:43:43,180 --> 01:43:46,979
Speaker 5: still in the shop, your headphones will work just fine. Now,

1784
01:43:47,020 --> 01:43:49,400
Speaker 5: since I've already got you in my clutches, let's get

1785
01:43:49,420 --> 01:43:54,120
Speaker 5: into a little morbid labor history. And, admittedly, there's a

1786
01:43:54,140 --> 01:43:57,860
Speaker 5: real dearth of genuinely spooky labor actions out there in

1787
01:43:57,880 --> 01:44:00,740
Speaker 5: the modern day or otherwise. I mean, we haven't seen

1788
01:44:00,820 --> 01:44:05,110
Speaker 5: any vampiric work stoppages or witches strikes, though I wouldn't

1789
01:44:05,150 --> 01:44:07,810
Speaker 5: put it past the Etsy coven to eventually get organized.

1790
01:44:08,470 --> 01:44:10,630
Speaker 5: And the only real monster we can point to as

1791
01:44:10,689 --> 01:44:15,620
Speaker 5: workers is capitalism and its bloodthirsty minions in the employer class.

1792
01:44:16,740 --> 01:44:19,680
Speaker 5: There's a historical fantasy novel called The Factory Witches of

1793
01:44:19,740 --> 01:44:22,860
Speaker 5: Lowell that looks pretty cute and does involve a witch's union,

1794
01:44:23,600 --> 01:44:27,250
Speaker 5: but I'd rather take this in a more concrete direction,

1795
01:44:27,470 --> 01:44:32,490
Speaker 5: shall we say. Let's talk about gravedigger strikes. So, quick

1796
01:44:32,530 --> 01:44:36,830
Speaker 5: note on language. Gravedigger is clearly way more fun to say,

1797
01:44:36,850 --> 01:44:41,550
Speaker 5: but the proper term is cemetery worker. The classic horror

1798
01:44:41,630 --> 01:44:45,420
Speaker 5: movie trope of the disheveled, shady, creepy gravedigger with his

1799
01:44:45,479 --> 01:44:49,460
Speaker 5: shovel and medicine cackle doesn't quite apply these days. And

1800
01:44:49,500 --> 01:44:53,320
Speaker 5: I'm sure today's cemetery workers don't really appreciate that stereotype.

1801
01:44:54,400 --> 01:44:58,009
Speaker 5: There are no midnight resurrections or bloody shovels lying around anymore.

1802
01:44:58,820 --> 01:45:04,120
Speaker 5: This is municipal work, really. Nowadays, cemetery workers operate heavy

1803
01:45:04,160 --> 01:45:08,150
Speaker 5: machinery to perform burials, to maintain cemetery grounds and dig

1804
01:45:08,210 --> 01:45:12,450
Speaker 5: foundations for headstones and monuments. These are skilled workers whose

1805
01:45:12,490 --> 01:45:16,450
Speaker 5: world straddles maintenance, construction, and landscaping. And a lot of

1806
01:45:16,470 --> 01:45:19,790
Speaker 5: them are union city workers. They're first on the scene

1807
01:45:19,850 --> 01:45:22,179
Speaker 5: to ready the grave and the last to say goodbye

1808
01:45:22,300 --> 01:45:26,220
Speaker 5: once everyone else leaves. It is tempting to romanticize the gig,

1809
01:45:26,280 --> 01:45:28,540
Speaker 5: especially if you're a morbid little freak like me, but

1810
01:45:29,140 --> 01:45:33,700
Speaker 5: Even with the aid of modern advancements, digging graves remains hard, dirty,

1811
01:45:33,900 --> 01:45:37,650
Speaker 5: intensive physical labor that can wear down the body and

1812
01:45:37,670 --> 01:45:41,210
Speaker 5: take a mental and emotional toll on the worker. There's

1813
01:45:41,229 --> 01:45:44,229
Speaker 5: still a lot of dead bodies involved, after all. Given

1814
01:45:44,270 --> 01:45:47,220
Speaker 5: the nature of their work, cemetery workers are no strangers

1815
01:45:47,260 --> 01:45:50,700
Speaker 5: to cooperation on the job. Nor are they afraid of

1816
01:45:50,760 --> 01:45:55,160
Speaker 5: collective action. There's a long history of gravediggers going on strike.

1817
01:45:55,860 --> 01:45:58,420
Speaker 5: though it's truly a wonder that any boss has ever

1818
01:45:58,540 --> 01:46:01,080
Speaker 5: dared to push them to that point, given the kind

1819
01:46:01,120 --> 01:46:04,880
Speaker 5: of leverage these particular workers wield. Strikes are meant to

1820
01:46:04,920 --> 01:46:08,400
Speaker 5: be disruptive, and there are few things more guaranteed to

1821
01:46:08,640 --> 01:46:12,640
Speaker 5: disrupt a city's normal operating procedure than a rotting pile

1822
01:46:12,700 --> 01:46:16,760
Speaker 5: of unburied corpses. That's what happened in 1949 in New

1823
01:46:16,800 --> 01:46:19,880
Speaker 5: York City, when tensions rose between the trustees of St.

1824
01:46:19,900 --> 01:46:22,460
Speaker 5: Patrick's Cathedral in Queens and 250 of its cemetery workers.

1825
01:46:24,920 --> 01:46:28,600
Speaker 5: These workers were predominantly Irish and Italian Catholics who earned

1826
01:46:29,040 --> 01:46:33,889
Speaker 5: about $ 60 a week, around $ 700 in today's dollars, for

1827
01:46:33,900 --> 01:46:38,250
Speaker 5: a six-day, 40-hour work week. After a breakdown in contract

1828
01:46:38,290 --> 01:46:41,570
Speaker 5: negotiations between the bosses and the unions, in which the

1829
01:46:41,610 --> 01:46:45,490
Speaker 5: workers were pushing for a five-day, 40-hour work week, higher wages,

1830
01:46:45,550 --> 01:46:48,730
Speaker 5: and overtime, the union called a strike for January 13th.

1831
01:46:48,750 --> 01:46:51,410
Speaker 5: I don't think it was a Friday, but it would

1832
01:46:51,450 --> 01:46:54,430
Speaker 5: be very satisfying if it was. So the work stoppage

1833
01:46:54,470 --> 01:46:57,450
Speaker 5: lasted for just under two months, and in that time,

1834
01:46:57,470 --> 01:47:03,760
Speaker 5: a thousand bodies went unburied. Cardinal Francis Spellman, Archbishop of

1835
01:47:03,780 --> 01:47:08,800
Speaker 5: the city's Roman Catholic Archdiocese, summoned 200 untrained college students

1836
01:47:08,840 --> 01:47:12,840
Speaker 5: from St. Joe's Seminary to fill in the scabs. One

1837
01:47:12,880 --> 01:47:15,470
Speaker 5: can only imagine how well these kids, who were far

1838
01:47:15,550 --> 01:47:18,090
Speaker 5: more used to flipping Bible pages than engaging in any

1839
01:47:18,130 --> 01:47:21,390
Speaker 5: kind of real heavy toil, adapted to chipping grays out

1840
01:47:21,430 --> 01:47:24,290
Speaker 5: of the cold winter dirt, But it's not exactly the

1841
01:47:24,330 --> 01:47:26,530
Speaker 5: kind of assignment you can turn down if you're trying

1842
01:47:26,550 --> 01:47:29,630
Speaker 5: to be like an extra special kind of priest.

1843
01:47:29,670 --> 01:47:29,970
Speaker 6: You know?

1844
01:47:29,990 --> 01:47:32,400
Speaker 5: I was raised Catholic. I feel like I can be

1845
01:47:32,439 --> 01:47:33,980
Speaker 5: as rude about these dudes as I want.

1846
01:47:34,640 --> 01:47:35,280
Speaker 9: Sorry, Grandma.

1847
01:47:36,340 --> 01:47:39,660
Speaker 5: The strike caused a stir among the city's Catholic labor activists,

1848
01:47:40,000 --> 01:47:44,540
Speaker 5: particularly the Association of Catholic Trade Unionists, the Catholic Worker newspaper,

1849
01:47:45,020 --> 01:47:49,700
Speaker 5: and its founder, the renowned Catholic anarchist labor activist Dorothy Day.

1850
01:47:50,160 --> 01:47:52,720
Speaker 5: Still waiting for her to be sainted. It's coming. I

1851
01:47:52,740 --> 01:47:56,400
Speaker 5: can feel it. She personally took up the cause, both

1852
01:47:56,439 --> 01:47:59,760
Speaker 5: at the cemetery and outside the Cardinal's residence on Manhattan's

1853
01:47:59,780 --> 01:48:03,720
Speaker 5: Madison Avenue, and delivered food and medicine to the Stryker's families.

1854
01:48:04,540 --> 01:48:08,400
Speaker 5: Dorothy Day wrote directly to the Cardinal, emphasizing the economic

1855
01:48:08,470 --> 01:48:12,370
Speaker 5: hardships the workers faced and asking him to go to them,

1856
01:48:12,689 --> 01:48:15,650
Speaker 5: conciliate them. It is easier for the great to give

1857
01:48:15,729 --> 01:48:18,729
Speaker 5: in than the poor. They are hungry men. Their only

1858
01:48:18,790 --> 01:48:21,439
Speaker 5: weapon has been their labor. which they have sold for

1859
01:48:21,479 --> 01:48:24,959
Speaker 5: a means of livelihood to feed themselves and their families.

1860
01:48:26,120 --> 01:48:28,680
Speaker 5: The 70s being what they were, what had begun as

1861
01:48:28,720 --> 01:48:32,370
Speaker 5: a pretty straightforward dispute over time and money morphed into

1862
01:48:32,510 --> 01:48:36,250
Speaker 5: a really ugly, weird squabble over communism?

1863
01:48:36,270 --> 01:48:36,330
Speaker 10: Ha!

1864
01:48:37,920 --> 01:48:42,140
Speaker 5: Conservative Catholic leaders red-baited the union members because union, and

1865
01:48:42,180 --> 01:48:46,040
Speaker 5: the Cardinal decried their tactics as communistic. And now the

1866
01:48:46,080 --> 01:48:48,820
Speaker 5: workers got really pissed off about this because they hated

1867
01:48:48,860 --> 01:48:53,430
Speaker 5: communism too. And they took an anti-red oath to denounce

1868
01:48:53,490 --> 01:48:56,650
Speaker 5: communism in the middle of their strike. And they also,

1869
01:48:56,670 --> 01:49:01,610
Speaker 5: at the Archdiocese's insistence, disaffiliated from their union and joined

1870
01:49:01,650 --> 01:49:05,759
Speaker 5: the more conservative AFL as members of the Building Services

1871
01:49:05,820 --> 01:49:09,690
Speaker 5: Employees International Union. So they, like, got red-baited out of

1872
01:49:09,729 --> 01:49:12,940
Speaker 5: their union, and they still didn't even really win the strike.

1873
01:49:13,720 --> 01:49:16,660
Speaker 5: They eventually went back to work on March 12th and

1874
01:49:16,720 --> 01:49:20,080
Speaker 5: picked up their shovels in defeat. But it would be

1875
01:49:20,120 --> 01:49:22,960
Speaker 5: far from the last time America's gravediggers would call the

1876
01:49:23,000 --> 01:49:29,600
Speaker 5: bosses bluff. In 1975, 1,700 members of the local 365

1877
01:49:29,600 --> 01:49:33,110
Speaker 5: of the Cemetery Workers and Greens Attendance Union followed the

1878
01:49:33,150 --> 01:49:36,330
Speaker 5: lead of their predecessors. and struck for higher wages at

1879
01:49:36,330 --> 01:49:40,350
Speaker 5: 44 cemeteries in the New York metropolitan area. By the

1880
01:49:40,410 --> 01:49:43,479
Speaker 5: end of that 27-day strike, the workers had won a

1881
01:49:43,540 --> 01:49:48,759
Speaker 5: small wage increase, and 1,400 bodies were waiting to be buried.

1882
01:49:49,880 --> 01:49:52,059
Speaker 5: Absent from those piles were the dead of the Orthodox

1883
01:49:52,110 --> 01:49:57,830
Speaker 5: Jewish community, whose faith requires burial within 24 hours. In recognition...

1884
01:49:58,070 --> 01:50:01,089
Speaker 5: the union had invited the loved ones of deceased Orthodox

1885
01:50:01,150 --> 01:50:04,309
Speaker 5: Jews to enter the cemetery and bury those bodies in

1886
01:50:04,350 --> 01:50:08,540
Speaker 5: accordance with their religion. Picket lines are sacred, but so

1887
01:50:08,580 --> 01:50:11,300
Speaker 5: are a lot of other things too. The next year,

1888
01:50:12,040 --> 01:50:15,900
Speaker 5: gravediggers from Cemetery Workers Local 265 on the West Coast

1889
01:50:16,240 --> 01:50:20,150
Speaker 5: launched a four-month strike that shut down 10 California cemeteries,

1890
01:50:20,610 --> 01:50:24,210
Speaker 5: including in Colma, a small town near San Francisco that had, quote,

1891
01:50:24,210 --> 01:50:29,140
Speaker 5: 500 living residents, and hundreds of thousands of graves. The

1892
01:50:29,180 --> 01:50:33,900
Speaker 5: combination of manual labor, low pay, and cemetery-specific occupational hazards

1893
01:50:34,060 --> 01:50:36,900
Speaker 5: continued to spur cemetery workers to strike throughout the 80s

1894
01:50:36,960 --> 01:50:40,520
Speaker 5: and 90s. A few years earlier, a massive wave of

1895
01:50:40,560 --> 01:50:45,599
Speaker 5: strikes had overtaken the UK during 1978 and 1979's Winter

1896
01:50:45,620 --> 01:50:49,160
Speaker 5: of Discontent, and a group of cemetery workers in Liverpool

1897
01:50:49,479 --> 01:50:51,960
Speaker 5: had found themselves embroiled in a conflict that would become

1898
01:50:52,000 --> 01:50:56,170
Speaker 5: the subject of feverish national attention. Those 80 workers were

1899
01:50:56,189 --> 01:50:59,630
Speaker 5: the members of GMB, a general trade union, who had

1900
01:50:59,650 --> 01:51:02,620
Speaker 5: decided to join the thousands of other public sector employees

1901
01:51:02,660 --> 01:51:06,580
Speaker 5: who were already on strike around the country at the time. Unfortunately,

1902
01:51:06,939 --> 01:51:11,479
Speaker 5: those other workers' absence was a little less visible, and

1903
01:51:11,500 --> 01:51:15,740
Speaker 5: the backlash to the cemetery strike was brutal. The workers

1904
01:51:15,780 --> 01:51:18,650
Speaker 5: were demonized in the press and condemned by art school

1905
01:51:18,689 --> 01:51:22,550
Speaker 5: Margaret Thatcher herself. Photos of unburied bodies ran on the

1906
01:51:22,610 --> 01:51:25,880
Speaker 5: front pages over headlines screaming things like, Now they won't

1907
01:51:25,920 --> 01:51:28,920
Speaker 5: let us bury our dead. Members of Parliament called the

1908
01:51:28,960 --> 01:51:32,240
Speaker 5: strike an outrage to human decency. It was a lot.

1909
01:51:32,970 --> 01:51:34,870
Speaker 5: So the workers decided to end the strike after a

1910
01:51:34,910 --> 01:51:37,210
Speaker 5: week and a half. They were worried that their actions

1911
01:51:37,250 --> 01:51:40,230
Speaker 5: were hurting everyday people instead of the government that was

1912
01:51:40,290 --> 01:51:44,349
Speaker 5: causing so much suffering. Conservative politicians seized on the strike's

1913
01:51:44,410 --> 01:51:48,070
Speaker 5: shocking imagery to batter the Labour Party. They swept into

1914
01:51:48,110 --> 01:51:51,150
Speaker 5: power in the next election, all of which allowed Margaret

1915
01:51:51,189 --> 01:51:54,450
Speaker 5: Thatcher to eventually launch her own war on the working class.

1916
01:51:55,610 --> 01:51:59,809
Speaker 5: In 2021, with Thatcher safely rotting in her own grave,

1917
01:52:00,450 --> 01:52:04,310
Speaker 5: Liverpool's cemetery workers threatened to walk out again, but this

1918
01:52:04,350 --> 01:52:06,450
Speaker 5: time they managed to strike a deal at the 11th hour.

1919
01:52:06,470 --> 01:52:08,570
Speaker 5: I have a feeling no one wanted to repeat that

1920
01:52:08,610 --> 01:52:12,390
Speaker 5: whole situation. As each of these strike actions and many

1921
01:52:12,430 --> 01:52:15,610
Speaker 5: more besides have shown, cemetery workers and the work they

1922
01:52:15,650 --> 01:52:20,950
Speaker 5: do are absolutely essential. Without them, neither the living nor

1923
01:52:20,990 --> 01:52:24,240
Speaker 5: the dead can find peace. and the vital importance of

1924
01:52:24,280 --> 01:52:26,960
Speaker 5: that work should leave no argument over whether they should

1925
01:52:26,979 --> 01:52:30,400
Speaker 5: be paid fairly and treated well. Greedy bosses who have

1926
01:52:30,439 --> 01:52:34,910
Speaker 5: refused to recognize that have done so at their peril. Remember,

1927
01:52:35,410 --> 01:52:38,570
Speaker 5: gravediggers know where all the bodies are buried. Who do

1928
01:52:38,590 --> 01:52:51,120
Speaker 5: you think put them there in the first place? Speaking

1929
01:52:51,140 --> 01:52:55,540
Speaker 5: of unburied corpses... Cemetery workers weren't the only unionized workforce

1930
01:52:55,560 --> 01:52:58,280
Speaker 5: that has had to navigate a truly cursed minefield of

1931
01:52:58,360 --> 01:53:02,400
Speaker 5: bad bosses, public horror, and decaying human remains during a

1932
01:53:02,439 --> 01:53:06,880
Speaker 5: labor dispute. Here in Philadelphia, we got a front-row seat

1933
01:53:06,920 --> 01:53:10,160
Speaker 5: to that particular balancing act last summer during the huge

1934
01:53:10,300 --> 01:53:14,620
Speaker 5: Astme DC-33 municipal workers' strike that effectively shut down a

1935
01:53:14,640 --> 01:53:17,139
Speaker 5: good chunk of the city for eight very sweaty days

1936
01:53:17,200 --> 01:53:20,120
Speaker 5: in July. The most visible of the workers who went

1937
01:53:20,220 --> 01:53:23,420
Speaker 5: out came from the sanitation department, A heat wave was

1938
01:53:23,500 --> 01:53:25,720
Speaker 5: pummeling the city when they walked out on July 1st.

1939
01:53:26,360 --> 01:53:27,939
Speaker 5: And if you think Philly's a little grimy on a

1940
01:53:28,010 --> 01:53:31,910
Speaker 5: normal day, you should have seen and smelled the reeking

1941
01:53:31,950 --> 01:53:35,070
Speaker 5: mountains of trash that accumulated in what seemed like mere hours.

1942
01:53:36,030 --> 01:53:38,810
Speaker 5: Being the deep-thin serious city that we are, we obviously

1943
01:53:38,870 --> 01:53:43,150
Speaker 5: dubbed them Parker Piles after our evil mayor. The sanitation

1944
01:53:43,189 --> 01:53:45,700
Speaker 5: workers weren't the only municipal workers who went out, though.

1945
01:53:46,400 --> 01:53:51,339
Speaker 5: The strike also included clerical employees, library staff, street pavers,

1946
01:53:51,750 --> 01:53:56,650
Speaker 5: water department workers, and the medical examiner's office. That last

1947
01:53:56,800 --> 01:54:00,180
Speaker 5: one made a real big splash real quick. Because you

1948
01:54:00,200 --> 01:54:02,780
Speaker 5: know what the medical examiner is in charge of? The

1949
01:54:02,840 --> 01:54:08,160
Speaker 5: city morgue. Now, as the Philadelphia Inquirer reported, the 160-bed

1950
01:54:08,200 --> 01:54:11,760
Speaker 5: facility was filled to overflowing within the first 48 hours

1951
01:54:11,800 --> 01:54:14,580
Speaker 5: of the strike. Look, Philly's the best city in the world,

1952
01:54:14,600 --> 01:54:17,840
Speaker 5: but we do have our problems, and among those problems are,

1953
01:54:17,860 --> 01:54:21,090
Speaker 5: you know, sometimes people get murked. The city morgue is

1954
01:54:21,110 --> 01:54:24,420
Speaker 5: a pretty busy place. Now, during the strike, during those

1955
01:54:24,479 --> 01:54:28,559
Speaker 5: first awful 48 hours, the remaining staffers were left scrambling

1956
01:54:28,600 --> 01:54:32,200
Speaker 5: to find room for 180 bodies, and they ultimately had

1957
01:54:32,240 --> 01:54:35,820
Speaker 5: to double up on space, squeezing two cadavers into each bed.

1958
01:54:36,920 --> 01:54:39,960
Speaker 5: While the workers who usually handle death investigations and body

1959
01:54:39,980 --> 01:54:43,520
Speaker 5: transportation were on the picket line, grieving families were left

1960
01:54:43,560 --> 01:54:47,370
Speaker 5: in the lurch. In one especially horrific moment, the body

1961
01:54:47,390 --> 01:54:50,490
Speaker 5: of a 19-year-old gunshot victim... was left bleeding in the

1962
01:54:50,530 --> 01:54:53,070
Speaker 5: street for hours before someone came to pick him up.

1963
01:54:54,110 --> 01:54:56,710
Speaker 5: By day three of the strike, the city had had enough.

1964
01:54:57,370 --> 01:55:00,040
Speaker 5: They forced the medical examiner's office back to work via

1965
01:55:00,080 --> 01:55:03,280
Speaker 5: a court injunction, citing a threat to public health and safety.

1966
01:55:04,500 --> 01:55:06,520
Speaker 5: You'd think the mayor and her cronies at City Hall

1967
01:55:06,560 --> 01:55:08,560
Speaker 5: would have maybe taken a minute to look into what

1968
01:55:08,580 --> 01:55:12,120
Speaker 5: had happened in other recent morgue-related strikes, or even into

1969
01:55:12,140 --> 01:55:15,490
Speaker 5: what had happened back in 1986. when the Philadelphia city

1970
01:55:15,530 --> 01:55:19,580
Speaker 5: workers had launched another massive strike that included medical examiner staff.

1971
01:55:20,260 --> 01:55:22,860
Speaker 5: If they had, they might have realized just what a

1972
01:55:22,940 --> 01:55:25,640
Speaker 5: terrifically bad idea it can be to piss off the

1973
01:55:25,700 --> 01:55:28,890
Speaker 5: people who take care of all the dead bodies. Chicago

1974
01:55:28,950 --> 01:55:31,730
Speaker 5: folks might know where I'm going with this. Let's talk

1975
01:55:31,790 --> 01:55:36,790
Speaker 5: about the Cook County morgue scandal. In 2011, a string

1976
01:55:36,810 --> 01:55:39,620
Speaker 5: of institutional failures at the office of the Cook County

1977
01:55:39,660 --> 01:55:43,430
Speaker 5: Medical Examiner Illinois had led to a truly unbearable work

1978
01:55:43,470 --> 01:55:46,650
Speaker 5: environment for both the workers and the human remains they

1979
01:55:46,670 --> 01:55:50,850
Speaker 5: were charged with handling. Among other factors, funding cuts and

1980
01:55:50,890 --> 01:55:54,430
Speaker 5: changes in policy for handling infant remains and the unclaimed

1981
01:55:54,470 --> 01:55:57,430
Speaker 5: bodies of the dead had led to a staggering pileup

1982
01:55:57,470 --> 01:56:01,750
Speaker 5: of cadavers. At the time, CBS News reported that 400

1983
01:56:01,750 --> 01:56:04,690
Speaker 5: adults and 100 babies were being kept in a cooler

1984
01:56:04,750 --> 01:56:08,980
Speaker 5: meant for 300 bodies total. A whistleblower leaked photos of

1985
01:56:09,020 --> 01:56:12,020
Speaker 5: the carnage to the media, who predictably blew it up

1986
01:56:12,060 --> 01:56:15,940
Speaker 5: into a massive public scandal. Which seems pretty fair, honestly,

1987
01:56:16,020 --> 01:56:18,050
Speaker 5: when you read some of the workers' quotes on the subject.

1988
01:56:18,910 --> 01:56:21,920
Speaker 5: As one said, There are so many bodies in there now,

1989
01:56:22,030 --> 01:56:24,870
Speaker 5: they can't keep it cool enough. The stench is like

1990
01:56:24,950 --> 01:56:29,630
Speaker 5: nothing I've ever seen. I think it's sacrilegious. Photos showed

1991
01:56:29,670 --> 01:56:34,030
Speaker 5: bodies wrapped in plastic, haphazardly stacked on wooden shelves, while

1992
01:56:34,130 --> 01:56:36,670
Speaker 5: others were left rotting on the floor.

1993
01:56:37,170 --> 01:56:37,750
Speaker 7: Like, it was.

1994
01:56:38,480 --> 01:56:42,370
Speaker 5: It was fucked. It was really, really bad. And a

1995
01:56:42,570 --> 01:56:45,790
Speaker 5: worker told the public about it and some stuff changed.

1996
01:56:46,230 --> 01:56:50,510
Speaker 5: Shout out to the whistleblowers. Health hazards aside, it's just

1997
01:56:50,530 --> 01:56:53,530
Speaker 5: really fucking grim to hear these stories and to think

1998
01:56:53,570 --> 01:56:58,330
Speaker 5: about someone's grandma or granddaughter or mom left in that

1999
01:56:58,370 --> 01:57:01,980
Speaker 5: condition because someone in an office somewhere decided that those

2000
01:57:02,060 --> 01:57:05,180
Speaker 5: greedy corpse handlers could get by on a smaller budget.

2001
01:57:06,370 --> 01:57:09,610
Speaker 5: The state labor department dinged them with 21 safety and

2002
01:57:09,650 --> 01:57:13,680
Speaker 5: sanitation violations after this all came out, including exposure to

2003
01:57:13,720 --> 01:57:18,260
Speaker 5: hepatitis B, blood splatter, and a failure to protect workers

2004
01:57:18,320 --> 01:57:21,810
Speaker 5: from the risk of being hit by falling bodies. The

2005
01:57:21,850 --> 01:57:25,490
Speaker 5: resulting reforms, purges, and mass burials that followed the whole

2006
01:57:25,550 --> 01:57:28,130
Speaker 5: affair make it sound even more like something out of

2007
01:57:28,150 --> 01:57:32,760
Speaker 5: an indie horror movie, but that's bureaucracy, baby. We've jumped

2008
01:57:32,770 --> 01:57:35,280
Speaker 5: from the graveyard to the morgue. and now it's time

2009
01:57:35,320 --> 01:57:38,550
Speaker 5: to make a stop at the funeral home. To bounce

2010
01:57:38,590 --> 01:57:40,830
Speaker 5: back to New York City, I want to shout out

2011
01:57:40,930 --> 01:57:45,670
Speaker 5: one of its other particularly ghoulish post-mortem labor conflicts. For

2012
01:57:45,690 --> 01:57:48,470
Speaker 5: whatever reason, there have been a lot of corpse-related worker

2013
01:57:48,610 --> 01:57:52,010
Speaker 5: actions out there. Like, more than really seems reasonable, but

2014
01:57:52,550 --> 01:57:54,390
Speaker 5: with so many of the living being pushed out of

2015
01:57:54,410 --> 01:57:56,910
Speaker 5: New York every day, I guess it makes sense that

2016
01:57:56,970 --> 01:57:59,310
Speaker 5: even the dead can't always find a decent place to rest.

2017
01:58:00,570 --> 01:58:07,090
Speaker 5: So back in 1964, on October 1st, Over 400 embalmers, undertakers,

2018
01:58:07,210 --> 01:58:10,220
Speaker 5: and funeral directors from across the five boroughs of went

2019
01:58:10,300 --> 01:58:14,480
Speaker 5: on strike. Classic strike action. They're calling for higher wages,

2020
01:58:14,560 --> 01:58:19,080
Speaker 5: better pensions, and a 35-hour work week, which does sound

2021
01:58:19,100 --> 01:58:21,440
Speaker 5: like a pretty big ask for the 60s if you

2022
01:58:21,460 --> 01:58:24,240
Speaker 5: don't think much about what their work days actually looked

2023
01:58:24,300 --> 01:58:26,720
Speaker 5: like and forget that they're only making $ 122 a week.

2024
01:58:29,160 --> 01:58:32,380
Speaker 5: When talks broke down between members of Local 407, of

2025
01:58:32,400 --> 01:58:36,160
Speaker 5: the Funeral Directors and Balmers and Undertakers Union, who are

2026
01:58:36,200 --> 01:58:40,020
Speaker 5: part of the SEIU Extended Universe, also, if anyone can

2027
01:58:40,100 --> 01:58:43,450
Speaker 5: find a t-shirt, I will give you not a lot

2028
01:58:43,590 --> 01:58:45,190
Speaker 5: of dollars, because I don't have a lot, but I would,

2029
01:58:45,930 --> 01:58:48,710
Speaker 5: let me know. I will haunt eBay for the rest

2030
01:58:48,730 --> 01:58:51,510
Speaker 5: of my days if I can find a Local 407 shirt.

2031
01:58:53,230 --> 01:58:55,810
Speaker 5: But when talks broke down between the union and the

2032
01:58:55,870 --> 01:59:00,480
Speaker 5: Metropolitan Funeral Directors Association, workers at 100 of the busiest,

2033
01:59:00,700 --> 01:59:04,860
Speaker 5: most high-profile funeral homes in the city walked out, which

2034
01:59:04,920 --> 01:59:09,380
Speaker 5: left their supervisors, funeral home executives, and owners to handle

2035
01:59:09,400 --> 01:59:12,620
Speaker 5: the avalanche of bodies that were quickly left in their wake.

2036
01:59:13,640 --> 01:59:16,940
Speaker 5: It's funny, after only eight days of getting their hands dirty,

2037
01:59:16,960 --> 01:59:21,370
Speaker 5: the bosses were absolutely exhausted and dying for their workers

2038
01:59:21,410 --> 01:59:24,830
Speaker 5: to come back. So they backed down. The embalmers came

2039
01:59:24,870 --> 01:59:27,390
Speaker 5: back to work with an immediate wage increase and a

2040
01:59:27,430 --> 01:59:30,700
Speaker 5: bunch of other goodies too. As we've learned, as far

2041
01:59:30,760 --> 01:59:33,780
Speaker 5: as leverage goes, it's hard to argue with a rotting corpse.

2042
01:59:34,900 --> 01:59:37,100
Speaker 5: One last little tidbit I'd like to share before we

2043
01:59:37,120 --> 01:59:40,520
Speaker 5: go our separate ways comes courtesy of the Columbarium, an

2044
01:59:40,560 --> 01:59:44,120
Speaker 5: extremely fun newsletter about death from writer and death educator

2045
01:59:44,260 --> 01:59:47,220
Speaker 5: Becky Robeson. I saw her post about this story a

2046
01:59:47,220 --> 01:59:48,920
Speaker 5: little bit ago, and I had to hit her up

2047
01:59:48,940 --> 01:59:52,290
Speaker 5: for more details. Labor ghouls of a feather flock together,

2048
01:59:52,310 --> 01:59:58,390
Speaker 5: I guess. So, 1852. 200 of New York's coffin makers

2049
01:59:58,810 --> 02:00:01,990
Speaker 5: went on strike. Now, it may have been the Gilded Age,

2050
02:00:02,230 --> 02:00:05,510
Speaker 5: but it still stunk pretty bad back then, especially in

2051
02:00:05,550 --> 02:00:10,070
Speaker 5: the summertime when diseases like cholera, smallpox, and typhoid ran rampant.

2052
02:00:10,810 --> 02:00:12,990
Speaker 5: The poor bastards working at the city morgue would have

2053
02:00:13,170 --> 02:00:15,770
Speaker 5: killed for the kind of refrigeration setup they had in

2054
02:00:15,790 --> 02:00:18,910
Speaker 5: Cook County. But at the time, the best they could

2055
02:00:18,930 --> 02:00:20,470
Speaker 5: do was to keep their stiffs on ice.

2056
02:00:21,380 --> 02:00:21,720
Speaker 6: Literally.

2057
02:00:22,020 --> 02:00:25,520
Speaker 5: They would have used ice-lined wooden boxes called corpse coolers

2058
02:00:25,620 --> 02:00:28,490
Speaker 5: to keep the deceased and their loved ones by proxy

2059
02:00:28,730 --> 02:00:31,730
Speaker 5: as comfortable as possible before the funeral. We can really

2060
02:00:31,750 --> 02:00:34,850
Speaker 5: only do so much. The coffin workers were well aware

2061
02:00:34,890 --> 02:00:38,570
Speaker 5: of this fact and used their leverage, there's that word again,

2062
02:00:38,600 --> 02:00:41,900
Speaker 5: to ensure that when they joined the strike, their impact

2063
02:00:41,940 --> 02:00:46,360
Speaker 5: would be felt immediately. But this wasn't just a coffin

2064
02:00:46,380 --> 02:00:49,640
Speaker 5: maker's strike. They were part of a much bigger labor

2065
02:00:49,760 --> 02:00:52,980
Speaker 5: action that pulled together thousands upon thousands of workers from

2066
02:00:53,020 --> 02:00:56,560
Speaker 5: across 30 different industries from all over the city to

2067
02:00:56,600 --> 02:01:00,140
Speaker 5: call for an eight-hour workday. That movement had been bubbling

2068
02:01:00,200 --> 02:01:03,100
Speaker 5: for years at that point, with smaller local wins in

2069
02:01:03,120 --> 02:01:05,980
Speaker 5: New England inspiring workers in other regions to take up

2070
02:01:06,000 --> 02:01:09,540
Speaker 5: the rally and cry. Eight hours for work, eight hours

2071
02:01:09,600 --> 02:01:13,550
Speaker 5: for rest, eight hours for what we will. That 1872

2072
02:01:13,550 --> 02:01:18,030
Speaker 5: strike drew over 100,000 workers in total and scared the

2073
02:01:18,070 --> 02:01:21,560
Speaker 5: bejesus out of the corporate titans and city elites, who

2074
02:01:21,580 --> 02:01:25,180
Speaker 5: were suddenly faced with the harsh reality that, gosh, there

2075
02:01:25,200 --> 02:01:28,100
Speaker 5: really were a whole lot more workers than there were

2076
02:01:28,140 --> 02:01:33,650
Speaker 5: of them. They responded accordingly, weaponizing the police department. Piano

2077
02:01:33,690 --> 02:01:37,830
Speaker 5: man William Steinway personally hired 300 cops to protect his factory.

2078
02:01:38,190 --> 02:01:42,170
Speaker 5: Very fancy. forcing lockouts, and basically doing whatever they could

2079
02:01:42,270 --> 02:01:45,290
Speaker 5: to knock the fight out of the strikers. The workers

2080
02:01:45,330 --> 02:01:49,380
Speaker 5: won eventually, and that strike would prove to be just

2081
02:01:49,560 --> 02:01:53,920
Speaker 5: one more bloody stepping stone towards that eventual victory. The

2082
02:01:53,960 --> 02:01:57,120
Speaker 5: coffin makers had the last laugh, though. By the time

2083
02:01:57,160 --> 02:02:01,890
Speaker 5: that strike ended, 125 of the 200 strikers had forced

2084
02:02:01,930 --> 02:02:05,530
Speaker 5: concessions out of their bosses, which, given the way Victorian

2085
02:02:05,550 --> 02:02:09,490
Speaker 5: bosses tended to react to workers' labor demands, is pretty incredible.

2086
02:02:10,410 --> 02:02:13,050
Speaker 5: The unique nature of their employment as death workers saved

2087
02:02:13,090 --> 02:02:16,410
Speaker 5: them once again. As the Chicago Tribune wrote of the

2088
02:02:16,450 --> 02:02:19,760
Speaker 5: coffin makers and their strike at the time, quote, We

2089
02:02:19,800 --> 02:02:22,540
Speaker 5: see no escape from his clutches. We can resist the

2090
02:02:22,580 --> 02:02:26,300
Speaker 5: bricklayer by not building houses. We can offset the calciminer

2091
02:02:26,340 --> 02:02:29,260
Speaker 5: by refusing to whiten our walls. We can checkmate the

2092
02:02:29,300 --> 02:02:33,150
Speaker 5: servant by doing our own work. But unfortunately, as far

2093
02:02:33,190 --> 02:02:35,790
Speaker 5: as our pockets are concerned, we have got to die

2094
02:02:35,810 --> 02:02:38,480
Speaker 5: and we have got to be buried. And if the

2095
02:02:38,520 --> 02:02:41,440
Speaker 5: coffin maker persists in his demands, we know of no

2096
02:02:41,500 --> 02:02:44,800
Speaker 5: way in which we can refuse to patronize him. I'll

2097
02:02:44,820 --> 02:02:47,060
Speaker 5: leave you with one final quote from that same article

2098
02:02:47,080 --> 02:02:50,740
Speaker 5: that I just love. Not because of his intention, which

2099
02:02:50,760 --> 02:02:53,890
Speaker 5: was essentially whining about the coffin makers daring to demand

2100
02:02:53,900 --> 02:02:57,010
Speaker 5: to be paid fairly for their essential work, but because

2101
02:02:57,070 --> 02:03:00,910
Speaker 5: the Tribune accidentally makes a great observation about how fucked

2102
02:03:00,990 --> 02:03:03,090
Speaker 5: up it is that we're forced to spend every moment

2103
02:03:03,130 --> 02:03:06,900
Speaker 5: of our lives worrying about paying bills. You're right, 19th

2104
02:03:06,940 --> 02:03:10,650
Speaker 5: century newspaper hack. Unions are cool, and the necessities of

2105
02:03:10,730 --> 02:03:15,030
Speaker 5: life and death should be free for everyone. Quote, It

2106
02:03:15,110 --> 02:03:17,790
Speaker 5: is not enough that man, worm of the dust, must

2107
02:03:17,830 --> 02:03:20,770
Speaker 5: be perplexed and worried in life, must be reminded at

2108
02:03:20,850 --> 02:03:22,950
Speaker 5: every turn that this is a veil of tears and

2109
02:03:22,980 --> 02:03:25,860
Speaker 5: that all is vanity, but even after he is dead

2110
02:03:26,380 --> 02:03:29,420
Speaker 5: and no longer exposed to tailor's bills and house rents

2111
02:03:29,600 --> 02:03:33,740
Speaker 5: and butcher's bills and pew rents and servant-galism, and the

2112
02:03:33,820 --> 02:03:36,910
Speaker 5: thousand natural shocks that flesh his air to, there is

2113
02:03:36,950 --> 02:03:39,810
Speaker 5: still a class of men left who can worry his ghost.

2114
02:03:41,650 --> 02:03:45,210
Speaker 5: So that was my spooky labor Halloween episode for you.

2115
02:03:45,230 --> 02:03:49,430
Speaker 5: I hope you liked it. Thank you for listening. Now

2116
02:03:49,450 --> 02:03:51,690
Speaker 5: go give your boss a scare for me, and have

2117
02:03:51,710 --> 02:03:52,430
Speaker 5: a happy Halloween.

2118
02:04:08,330 --> 02:04:12,340
Speaker 10: This is It Could Happen Here, Executive Disorder, our weekly

2119
02:04:12,380 --> 02:04:15,480
Speaker 10: newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world,

2120
02:04:15,520 --> 02:04:16,440
Speaker 10: and what this means for you.

2121
02:04:17,020 --> 02:04:17,980
Speaker 6: I'm Garrison Davis.

2122
02:04:18,000 --> 02:04:20,900
Speaker 10: Today I'm joined by Mia Wong, James Stout, Robert Evans,

2123
02:04:21,040 --> 02:04:25,560
Speaker 10: and special correspondent Margaret Kiljoy, who is joining us for

2124
02:04:25,720 --> 02:04:29,160
Speaker 10: our spooky, slightly spooky, but also kind of regular edition

2125
02:04:29,420 --> 02:04:31,930
Speaker 10: of Executive Disorder.

2126
02:04:32,730 --> 02:04:37,550
Speaker 6: Class war. That's right. That's right. Um, The specter that's

2127
02:04:37,570 --> 02:04:38,370
Speaker 6: haunting Europe.

2128
02:04:40,430 --> 02:04:44,129
Speaker 10: We're covering the week of October 21st to October 28th.

2129
02:04:45,150 --> 02:04:48,430
Speaker 10: Not actually covering Halloween because that hasn't happened yet. But

2130
02:04:48,610 --> 02:04:49,210
Speaker 10: what can you do?

2131
02:04:49,930 --> 02:04:51,750
Speaker 6: Halloween's a season now, Garrison.

2132
02:04:52,230 --> 02:04:52,760
Speaker 1: It's months.

2133
02:04:52,950 --> 02:04:55,140
Speaker 6: That's true. That is true. I'm pushing for it to

2134
02:04:55,150 --> 02:04:56,720
Speaker 6: consume Thanksgiving. Okay.

2135
02:04:57,080 --> 02:04:57,620
Speaker 7: I'm so down.

2136
02:04:57,900 --> 02:05:01,560
Speaker 6: Halloween runs until the solstice. Yeah, straight into Saturnalia.

2137
02:05:02,540 --> 02:05:02,720
Speaker 10: Yeah.

2138
02:05:03,260 --> 02:05:03,460
Speaker 11: Sick.

2139
02:05:03,620 --> 02:05:03,930
Speaker 9: I love it.

2140
02:05:04,710 --> 02:05:07,710
Speaker 6: James, do you want to begin with some short stories?

2141
02:05:08,210 --> 02:05:09,210
Speaker 6: Let's do it. Okay.

2142
02:05:09,570 --> 02:05:14,340
Speaker 16: So starting, I guess, in this hemisphere, about a thousand

2143
02:05:14,400 --> 02:05:17,660
Speaker 16: troops from El Salvador have deployed to Haiti this week.

2144
02:05:18,220 --> 02:05:21,080
Speaker 16: The deployment came after four Salvadoran members of the UN

2145
02:05:21,100 --> 02:05:25,420
Speaker 16: task force went missing after they were ambushed and jumped

2146
02:05:25,500 --> 02:05:28,060
Speaker 16: out of their burning vehicle on the 18th of October.

2147
02:05:28,580 --> 02:05:31,430
Speaker 16: Bukele says that these people weren't on a combat patrol,

2148
02:05:31,510 --> 02:05:33,670
Speaker 16: that they were Air Force techs who are returning from

2149
02:05:33,730 --> 02:05:34,270
Speaker 16: a market.

2150
02:05:35,000 --> 02:05:39,140
Speaker 6: When they got ambushed. I won't comment. Four bodies have

2151
02:05:39,200 --> 02:05:41,190
Speaker 6: been handed over. They were handed.

2152
02:05:41,050 --> 02:05:44,410
Speaker 16: Over via one of these NGOs that does extraction work

2153
02:05:44,470 --> 02:05:44,950
Speaker 16: in the region.

2154
02:05:45,610 --> 02:05:47,990
Speaker 6: They were found burned and the NGO recovered them.

2155
02:05:48,030 --> 02:05:51,010
Speaker 16: I'm not quite sure if they were alerted that they

2156
02:05:51,030 --> 02:05:53,460
Speaker 16: were burned bodies or not. Bukele came to see these

2157
02:05:53,520 --> 02:05:56,180
Speaker 16: are not the missing personnel and he posted a picture

2158
02:05:56,260 --> 02:05:59,860
Speaker 16: of a Chadian soldier's ID but allegedly that Chadian soldier

2159
02:05:59,880 --> 02:06:02,080
Speaker 16: is alive but was injured and lost their ID in

2160
02:06:02,120 --> 02:06:05,060
Speaker 16: a mission. But Bukele came that the Bodies did not

2161
02:06:05,100 --> 02:06:07,050
Speaker 16: match the age or height of the.

2162
02:06:07,210 --> 02:06:09,090
Speaker 6: Lost Salvadoran personnel.

2163
02:06:10,010 --> 02:06:13,990
Speaker 16: Either way, it continues to be really desperate for folks

2164
02:06:14,010 --> 02:06:17,090
Speaker 16: trying to get along in Haiti. And I don't think

2165
02:06:17,110 --> 02:06:18,610
Speaker 16: the El Salvador military are going to make that much

2166
02:06:18,650 --> 02:06:22,730
Speaker 16: better for them. Another person has died in immigration detention.

2167
02:06:23,390 --> 02:06:26,830
Speaker 16: His death occurred in Core Civics' Otay Mesa facility, which

2168
02:06:26,870 --> 02:06:30,250
Speaker 16: is here in San Diego. Daylight San Diego confirmed this.

2169
02:06:30,770 --> 02:06:33,870
Speaker 16: ICE hasn't published anything on its news page yet. There

2170
02:06:33,890 --> 02:06:36,860
Speaker 16: were rumors earlier this weekend that someone has died. Daylight

2171
02:06:36,880 --> 02:06:39,740
Speaker 16: San Diego got confirmation, but I haven't seen anything yet

2172
02:06:39,780 --> 02:06:42,140
Speaker 16: on the ICE news page, so we don't know who

2173
02:06:42,180 --> 02:06:43,200
Speaker 16: that person was.

2174
02:06:44,200 --> 02:06:44,760
Speaker 6: At least I don't.

2175
02:06:45,500 --> 02:06:49,250
Speaker 16: Next, an Iraqi court has sentenced seven French Islamic State

2176
02:06:49,290 --> 02:06:52,070
Speaker 16: members to prison in the first verdict of a trial

2177
02:06:52,210 --> 02:06:57,320
Speaker 16: involving 47 accused Islamic State fighters. Because the international community

2178
02:06:57,520 --> 02:07:00,620
Speaker 16: manifestly failed to set up tribunals since the collapse of

2179
02:07:00,640 --> 02:07:03,970
Speaker 16: the territorial caliphate, the accused and their victims have faced

2180
02:07:04,270 --> 02:07:09,550
Speaker 16: massive delays in getting justice. The big worry for European

2181
02:07:09,650 --> 02:07:12,230
Speaker 16: Union states here seemed to be that their citizens would

2182
02:07:12,250 --> 02:07:16,270
Speaker 16: be sentenced to death, right? Some French citizens were sentenced

2183
02:07:16,290 --> 02:07:19,760
Speaker 16: to death in 2019, but their sentences were commuted. In

2184
02:07:19,770 --> 02:07:21,760
Speaker 16: this case, these people were sentenced to prison, not death.

2185
02:07:22,100 --> 02:07:24,600
Speaker 16: The United States, of course, helped transfer thousands of suspects

2186
02:07:24,620 --> 02:07:28,190
Speaker 16: from Syria, the SDG and the SNA began their offensive

2187
02:07:28,350 --> 02:07:32,350
Speaker 16: against the SDF earlier this year. In this case, Iraq

2188
02:07:32,390 --> 02:07:37,090
Speaker 16: is beginning these domestic trials of accused foreign fighters. Meanwhile,

2189
02:07:37,190 --> 02:07:40,410
Speaker 16: talking of Syria, both Jordan and Israel have conducted operations

2190
02:07:40,550 --> 02:07:44,370
Speaker 16: inside Syria this week. The Jordanians bombed what it claimed

2191
02:07:44,470 --> 02:07:47,220
Speaker 16: were Islamic State remnants responsible for an attack on a

2192
02:07:47,270 --> 02:07:49,740
Speaker 16: church in Jordan on the 26th of October which killed

2193
02:07:49,780 --> 02:07:54,610
Speaker 16: nine people. Israel, The IDF killed a young man with

2194
02:07:54,990 --> 02:07:58,800
Speaker 16: an intellectual disability and hearing problems during a night raid

2195
02:07:58,820 --> 02:08:02,770
Speaker 16: in Syria. they claimed that he kept approaching them and

2196
02:08:02,810 --> 02:08:03,670
Speaker 16: so they decided to.

2197
02:08:03,640 --> 02:08:05,780
Speaker 6: Kill him inside the country he lived in and that

2198
02:08:05,800 --> 02:08:06,500
Speaker 6: they don't live in.

2199
02:08:07,060 --> 02:08:09,180
Speaker 16: Inside the country that they were illegally invading along with

2200
02:08:09,200 --> 02:08:11,300
Speaker 16: all the other countries that they are illegally occupying yes

2201
02:08:11,880 --> 02:08:14,040
Speaker 16: there was like a really massive funeral for this man

2202
02:08:14,820 --> 02:08:17,380
Speaker 16: it's deeply fucking sad it's one of the thousands of

2203
02:08:18,140 --> 02:08:21,200
Speaker 16: horrific crimes against humanity that IDF likes to do about

2204
02:08:21,230 --> 02:08:25,830
Speaker 16: every week. So yeah, that's, it's all not the most, uh,

2205
02:08:25,850 --> 02:08:27,690
Speaker 16: happy stuff from me, but that's what I got for

2206
02:08:27,730 --> 02:08:30,550
Speaker 16: small things. The, the hunt is still taking an ass

2207
02:08:30,570 --> 02:08:31,910
Speaker 16: kicking every fucking day, man.

2208
02:08:32,810 --> 02:08:33,430
Speaker 6: So that's nice.

2209
02:08:33,970 --> 02:08:35,350
Speaker 7: In Myanmar, to be clear.

2210
02:08:35,910 --> 02:08:36,440
Speaker 6: In Myanmar.

2211
02:08:36,650 --> 02:08:36,879
Speaker 16: Yeah.

2212
02:08:36,900 --> 02:08:37,060
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2213
02:08:37,230 --> 02:08:37,440
Speaker 10: Yeah.

2214
02:08:39,110 --> 02:08:40,690
Speaker 16: I mean, it's nice to see them losing. I guess

2215
02:08:40,710 --> 02:08:43,140
Speaker 16: they've also decided to... Maybe I should report this. They've

2216
02:08:43,160 --> 02:08:45,840
Speaker 16: started to deploy their senior officers to the front lines.

2217
02:08:46,220 --> 02:08:46,350
Speaker 11: Oh, wow.

2218
02:08:46,360 --> 02:08:49,480
Speaker 16: Previously, their tactic was that the officers would plan the

2219
02:08:49,520 --> 02:08:51,860
Speaker 16: assault and then send conscripts in to die while they

2220
02:08:51,920 --> 02:08:55,790
Speaker 16: remained in the rear. And it seems that senior leadership

2221
02:08:55,830 --> 02:08:59,090
Speaker 16: is getting very pissed off at their absolute dedication to

2222
02:08:59,190 --> 02:09:00,730
Speaker 16: using World War II tactics in 2026.

2223
02:09:00,710 --> 02:09:01,350
Speaker 1: There are people....

2224
02:09:03,870 --> 02:09:06,590
Speaker 16: Doing opposed amphibious assaults and getting mown down with MG42

2225
02:09:07,090 --> 02:09:12,350
Speaker 16: machine guns. They're doing an unsuccessful D-Day every day. It's

2226
02:09:12,370 --> 02:09:15,470
Speaker 16: tragic that that many conscripts are dying, but hopefully some

2227
02:09:15,490 --> 02:09:17,190
Speaker 16: of those officers find their way to the front too.

2228
02:09:17,950 --> 02:09:18,760
Speaker 6: Line all them up.

2229
02:09:19,530 --> 02:09:22,790
Speaker 10: I want to mention two things that we'll probably cover

2230
02:09:22,950 --> 02:09:27,410
Speaker 10: more next week. Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee have

2231
02:09:27,570 --> 02:09:30,730
Speaker 10: released a new report on Trump's ties with Jeffrey Epstein.

2232
02:09:31,480 --> 02:09:35,280
Speaker 10: which contains details about Trump's involvement in Epstein's trafficking operations,

2233
02:09:36,050 --> 02:09:40,650
Speaker 10: and a new rape accusation against Trump made by a

2234
02:09:40,770 --> 02:09:46,230
Speaker 10: former beauty pageant contestant. Earlier this week, Trump instructed the

2235
02:09:46,490 --> 02:09:51,760
Speaker 10: DOJ to block the certification of Alaska's election results if

2236
02:09:51,820 --> 02:09:57,300
Speaker 10: the Democratic Senate candidate, Mary Paltola, wins Tuesday's election. The

2237
02:09:57,320 --> 02:10:01,250
Speaker 10: White House's preemptive justification is is that two different people

2238
02:10:01,430 --> 02:10:02,670
Speaker 10: named Daniel J.

2239
02:10:02,730 --> 02:10:05,270
Speaker 6: Sullivan Jr. and Dan S.

2240
02:10:05,390 --> 02:10:09,710
Speaker 10: Sullivan are both on the ballot, Dan S. Sullivan being

2241
02:10:09,770 --> 02:10:14,360
Speaker 10: the Republican incumbent, who is marked as such on the ballot.

2242
02:10:14,980 --> 02:10:19,400
Speaker 10: Alaska also has ranked choice voting, so if there's any confusion,

2243
02:10:19,660 --> 02:10:25,690
Speaker 10: voters can scribble in both Daniel and Dan Sullivan. We'll

2244
02:10:25,700 --> 02:10:29,690
Speaker 10: see what comes of this next week. Robert. Do you

2245
02:10:29,730 --> 02:10:34,190
Speaker 10: want to do our first considerably not spooky story? Unless

2246
02:10:34,210 --> 02:10:38,630
Speaker 10: you want to consider Flavio's disappearing act in Miami.

2247
02:10:38,950 --> 02:10:41,430
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there's a little bit of spook in that,

2248
02:10:41,510 --> 02:10:44,510
Speaker 2: I guess. But no, this is actually one of the

2249
02:10:45,070 --> 02:10:47,830
Speaker 2: happiest stories we'll have to say. And honestly, this is

2250
02:10:47,870 --> 02:10:50,550
Speaker 2: like the happiest I've ever been to be wrong and

2251
02:10:50,570 --> 02:10:53,150
Speaker 2: the happiest I've ever been to like more accurately read

2252
02:10:53,190 --> 02:10:56,010
Speaker 2: a bunch of sources that wound up being wrong. Because

2253
02:10:56,050 --> 02:10:59,380
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks back during my segment on ED,

2254
02:10:59,460 --> 02:11:03,340
Speaker 2: I talked about Lula's disastrous first round against Flavio Bolsonaro

2255
02:11:03,700 --> 02:11:07,110
Speaker 2: for Brazil's presidential election. And it went almost as badly

2256
02:11:07,150 --> 02:11:10,770
Speaker 2: for Lula as it could have gone. Neither side won outright. Obviously,

2257
02:11:10,830 --> 02:11:12,630
Speaker 2: Flavio winning outright would have been worse.

2258
02:11:12,950 --> 02:11:14,730
Speaker 1: But Flavio got more votes than Lula.

2259
02:11:15,100 --> 02:11:17,600
Speaker 2: Nearly all of the other candidates who got meaningful numbers

2260
02:11:17,640 --> 02:11:20,220
Speaker 2: of votes during that first round were further right even

2261
02:11:20,260 --> 02:11:23,020
Speaker 2: than Flavio and a lot weirder than Flavio. There was

2262
02:11:23,040 --> 02:11:26,310
Speaker 2: only like one left-wing candidate besides Lula that like got

2263
02:11:26,370 --> 02:11:28,470
Speaker 2: a notable really amount of votes. And it was still

2264
02:11:28,610 --> 02:11:30,870
Speaker 2: very small in the grand scheme of things. And so

2265
02:11:30,910 --> 02:11:33,990
Speaker 2: the assumption was that obviously for the second round of voting,

2266
02:11:34,030 --> 02:11:36,570
Speaker 2: you expect that people who voted for kind of other

2267
02:11:36,640 --> 02:11:40,150
Speaker 2: right-wing candidates and other left-wing candidates would they'll mostly coalesce

2268
02:11:40,210 --> 02:11:42,990
Speaker 2: behind whoever got the most kind of on that broad side.

2269
02:11:43,050 --> 02:11:44,630
Speaker 1: That's generally how you expect things to go.

2270
02:11:45,070 --> 02:11:47,870
Speaker 2: And so because most of the other candidates who'd gotten

2271
02:11:47,910 --> 02:11:51,140
Speaker 2: meaningful numbers of votes were further right, the assumption was, well,

2272
02:11:51,180 --> 02:11:53,120
Speaker 2: if Lula is going to pull a win out in

2273
02:11:53,160 --> 02:11:55,380
Speaker 2: the second round, he's going to have to turn a

2274
02:11:55,580 --> 02:11:57,580
Speaker 2: lot of these right wing votes. And that just doesn't

2275
02:11:57,640 --> 02:11:58,640
Speaker 2: seem like it's going to.

2276
02:11:58,620 --> 02:11:59,400
Speaker 1: Happen, right?

2277
02:12:00,000 --> 02:12:01,320
Speaker 2: There was a lot of the sources that I was

2278
02:12:01,360 --> 02:12:04,680
Speaker 2: reading said it's essentially, it seems essentially impossible for Lula

2279
02:12:04,720 --> 02:12:06,840
Speaker 2: to pull out a second round win, like based on

2280
02:12:07,350 --> 02:12:10,350
Speaker 2: what we're seeing and how previous Brazilian elections are going.

2281
02:12:10,410 --> 02:12:13,010
Speaker 2: Something unprecedented would have to happen for him to win.

2282
02:12:13,350 --> 02:12:16,520
Speaker 2: And something unprecedented did in fact happen because Lula won

2283
02:12:16,560 --> 02:12:20,740
Speaker 2: last weekend. And he didn't just flip out an absolute,

2284
02:12:20,760 --> 02:12:23,760
Speaker 2: like barely eking out a win. This wasn't a case where, well,

2285
02:12:23,780 --> 02:12:26,200
Speaker 2: it was kind of close the first round and Lula

2286
02:12:26,220 --> 02:12:28,850
Speaker 2: just sort of barely managed to edge his way ahead

2287
02:12:29,230 --> 02:12:33,340
Speaker 2: of Flavio. Lula won by almost 3.6% in the popular vote,

2288
02:12:33,600 --> 02:12:36,320
Speaker 2: like he doubled his margin of victory from the election

2289
02:12:36,340 --> 02:12:39,780
Speaker 2: in 2022. Why did this happen? Because the flaws in

2290
02:12:39,800 --> 02:12:42,400
Speaker 2: Lula's last administration didn't go away, and the fact that

2291
02:12:42,550 --> 02:12:45,730
Speaker 2: Bolsonaro nearly wound up right back in charge is proof

2292
02:12:45,770 --> 02:12:47,570
Speaker 2: of that, right? It points to the fact that Lula

2293
02:12:47,590 --> 02:12:49,490
Speaker 2: and the Brazilian left have a lot of work to do.

2294
02:12:49,990 --> 02:12:52,260
Speaker 2: And there's some other issues here. The most recent elections

2295
02:12:52,310 --> 02:12:54,780
Speaker 2: also handed Congress to the far right. So Lula is

2296
02:12:54,820 --> 02:12:57,620
Speaker 2: going to be fighting Congress basically from the moment he

2297
02:12:57,660 --> 02:13:00,880
Speaker 2: takes office. But the fact that Lula is president means

2298
02:13:00,900 --> 02:13:03,060
Speaker 2: that there's a fight to be had. You know, Flavio

2299
02:13:03,100 --> 02:13:05,000
Speaker 2: is not going to be able to, among other things,

2300
02:13:05,440 --> 02:13:08,540
Speaker 2: force out a bunch of Supreme Court justices who ruled

2301
02:13:08,660 --> 02:13:11,620
Speaker 2: against his father and stack the court in his own favor.

2302
02:13:11,900 --> 02:13:13,850
Speaker 2: There's a bunch of shit Flavio is not going to

2303
02:13:13,890 --> 02:13:14,570
Speaker 2: be able to do.

2304
02:13:14,590 --> 02:13:15,170
Speaker 10: Yeah.

2305
02:13:15,190 --> 02:13:17,410
Speaker 7: Putting Lula in prison again, which is a thing that

2306
02:13:17,690 --> 02:13:20,430
Speaker 7: is weirdly not discussed. But like, yeah, this was an

2307
02:13:20,470 --> 02:13:23,510
Speaker 7: election that was loser goes to prison. Like, that's a

2308
02:13:23,570 --> 02:13:24,630
Speaker 7: big part of this.

2309
02:13:24,950 --> 02:13:25,550
Speaker 12: Oh, Miami.

2310
02:13:25,610 --> 02:13:28,030
Speaker 2: In Flavio's case, it was losers go to prison because

2311
02:13:28,090 --> 02:13:30,470
Speaker 2: he had committed a bunch of crimes he was actively

2312
02:13:30,530 --> 02:13:31,770
Speaker 2: being investigated for.

2313
02:13:31,810 --> 02:13:34,480
Speaker 7: Yeah. And Lula, it was Lula. They'll send Lula to

2314
02:13:34,490 --> 02:13:37,720
Speaker 7: prison again for bullshit. Because fuck you.

2315
02:13:37,900 --> 02:13:38,140
Speaker 9: Yeah.

2316
02:13:38,400 --> 02:13:42,120
Speaker 2: Yes, but this was a loser-ghost-person kind of election.

2317
02:13:42,140 --> 02:13:43,080
Speaker 6: You are right about that.

2318
02:13:43,900 --> 02:13:45,260
Speaker 2: So in the next few days, we're going to have

2319
02:13:45,300 --> 02:13:47,520
Speaker 2: an episode from a Brazilian activist who was part of

2320
02:13:47,560 --> 02:13:50,140
Speaker 2: the massive grassroots campaign to turn things around for the

2321
02:13:50,180 --> 02:13:51,980
Speaker 2: second round of voting. And that's going to be the

2322
02:13:52,020 --> 02:13:55,250
Speaker 2: majority of our coverage on the subject because obviously the

2323
02:13:55,270 --> 02:13:57,350
Speaker 2: person that we picked is a lot more qualified than

2324
02:13:57,390 --> 02:13:58,990
Speaker 2: any of us to talk about this sort of stuff,

2325
02:13:59,030 --> 02:14:01,630
Speaker 2: living there and having been a part of this. So

2326
02:14:01,790 --> 02:14:04,850
Speaker 2: we'll have more detail for you on what exactly happened later.

2327
02:14:05,250 --> 02:14:07,110
Speaker 2: But for the purpose of this episode, there's a couple

2328
02:14:07,150 --> 02:14:10,020
Speaker 2: important things I want to go over that are important

2329
02:14:10,060 --> 02:14:13,440
Speaker 2: in terms of understanding how this all happened, like how

2330
02:14:13,560 --> 02:14:15,970
Speaker 2: Lula was able to pull out a win. One is

2331
02:14:16,010 --> 02:14:19,990
Speaker 2: that people got galvanized by terror at what a second Bolsonaro, well,

2332
02:14:20,150 --> 02:14:23,390
Speaker 2: Flavio Bolsonaro, which was seen as an extension of like

2333
02:14:23,430 --> 02:14:26,940
Speaker 2: Jair's presidency, what that would actually mean. And they had

2334
02:14:26,980 --> 02:14:29,680
Speaker 2: weeks to marinate in that anxiety. And that helped motivate

2335
02:14:29,760 --> 02:14:31,340
Speaker 2: a major get out the vote effort.

2336
02:14:31,460 --> 02:14:31,660
Speaker 17: Right.

2337
02:14:31,720 --> 02:14:33,980
Speaker 2: A lot of people who had been kind of, well,

2338
02:14:34,040 --> 02:14:36,020
Speaker 2: I don't want to vote because I'm disappointed in Lula

2339
02:14:36,060 --> 02:14:38,980
Speaker 2: or I'm just not motivated to vote. Like a significant

2340
02:14:39,000 --> 02:14:40,980
Speaker 2: number of people were willing to come out because of

2341
02:14:41,060 --> 02:14:44,070
Speaker 2: what the stakes were. But a massive reason as to

2342
02:14:44,150 --> 02:14:46,580
Speaker 2: why things worked out for Lula comes down to the

2343
02:14:46,620 --> 02:14:49,220
Speaker 2: fact that he and his team fought a lot smarter

2344
02:14:49,400 --> 02:14:53,200
Speaker 2: this time around. Bolsonaro, as one of my sources pointed out,

2345
02:14:53,220 --> 02:14:56,200
Speaker 2: because I've talked to a few Brazilians about this election

2346
02:14:56,220 --> 02:14:58,620
Speaker 2: and like what happened during this like couple of weeks

2347
02:14:58,640 --> 02:15:01,090
Speaker 2: span of time. And several of the people I talked

2348
02:15:01,110 --> 02:15:03,930
Speaker 2: to pointed out that Bolsonaro relies heavily on being able

2349
02:15:03,950 --> 02:15:06,890
Speaker 2: to propagate their message through a bunch of different mouths

2350
02:15:07,030 --> 02:15:09,670
Speaker 2: and make whatever issue or scandal they think will get

2351
02:15:09,710 --> 02:15:11,270
Speaker 2: them power to go viral.

2352
02:15:11,380 --> 02:15:11,520
Speaker 10: Right.

2353
02:15:11,530 --> 02:15:11,850
Speaker 1: The U.S.

2354
02:15:11,910 --> 02:15:14,500
Speaker 2: MAGA right works basically the same way. You have a

2355
02:15:14,600 --> 02:15:17,840
Speaker 2: bunch of people who are all ostensibly independent content creators

2356
02:15:17,880 --> 02:15:20,860
Speaker 2: and media people who are all taking marching orders, probably

2357
02:15:20,900 --> 02:15:23,290
Speaker 2: from the same couple of like signal groups or whatever,

2358
02:15:23,710 --> 02:15:26,710
Speaker 2: where somebody says, hey, we're angry about trans people doing

2359
02:15:26,750 --> 02:15:29,190
Speaker 2: this this week. And then suddenly you have like 40

2360
02:15:29,190 --> 02:15:31,270
Speaker 2: different people all putting out the same message and it

2361
02:15:31,290 --> 02:15:34,020
Speaker 2: goes viral, right? That's like a major thing in the

2362
02:15:34,080 --> 02:15:35,560
Speaker 2: United States on the right. And it was a big

2363
02:15:35,640 --> 02:15:38,880
Speaker 2: part of how The Bolsonaros, like, did what they were

2364
02:15:38,940 --> 02:15:41,040
Speaker 2: able to do. Like, it was a major messaging thing

2365
02:15:41,080 --> 02:15:43,980
Speaker 2: that they engaged in. Lula teamed up with a guy

2366
02:15:44,100 --> 02:15:46,950
Speaker 2: named Andres Llanones to come up with a counter to

2367
02:15:46,970 --> 02:15:50,930
Speaker 2: this media strategy. Llanones started out as a lawyer for

2368
02:15:50,970 --> 02:15:53,570
Speaker 2: the poor and went through a mixed political awakening. This

2369
02:15:53,610 --> 02:15:55,610
Speaker 2: is not a guy who has had, like, a straight

2370
02:15:55,750 --> 02:15:59,760
Speaker 2: shot to helping the left win an election. He did initially,

2371
02:15:59,780 --> 02:16:01,880
Speaker 2: when he was a much younger man, join Lula's party

2372
02:16:01,980 --> 02:16:04,790
Speaker 2: at one point, the Workers' Party. But then after that,

2373
02:16:04,850 --> 02:16:06,770
Speaker 2: he joined a far right party that was run by

2374
02:16:06,830 --> 02:16:10,540
Speaker 2: Carlos Bolsonaro. In 2018, he was the federal deputy of

2375
02:16:10,600 --> 02:16:13,940
Speaker 2: a centrist party. But then in 2022, after he had

2376
02:16:13,980 --> 02:16:16,930
Speaker 2: kind of an abortive presidential run himself and decided not

2377
02:16:16,990 --> 02:16:19,370
Speaker 2: to go through with it and declared himself for Lula.

2378
02:16:19,910 --> 02:16:23,520
Speaker 2: Yonanez's background helped him to develop a shit-stirring strategy that

2379
02:16:23,540 --> 02:16:25,100
Speaker 2: was used to great effect. The big thing this guy's

2380
02:16:25,120 --> 02:16:27,420
Speaker 2: been talking about for a while is the left can't

2381
02:16:27,520 --> 02:16:29,500
Speaker 2: win unless we're willing to do some of the dirty

2382
02:16:29,600 --> 02:16:31,920
Speaker 2: shit that the right is doing, right? Like we have

2383
02:16:31,960 --> 02:16:34,200
Speaker 2: to actually get down into the muck and try some,

2384
02:16:34,540 --> 02:16:36,859
Speaker 2: basically some dirty tricks in order to make shit work.

2385
02:16:37,300 --> 02:16:39,820
Speaker 2: And that's very much what happened. He created a WhatsApp

2386
02:16:39,860 --> 02:16:42,570
Speaker 2: channel called Lula's Army, which he estimated would need about

2387
02:16:42,570 --> 02:16:45,310
Speaker 2: 10 million subscribers in order to guarantee Lula a win.

2388
02:16:45,690 --> 02:16:48,550
Speaker 2: It wound up with more than 11 million subscribers. Andre

2389
02:16:48,570 --> 02:16:50,550
Speaker 2: was the only person who could make posts there, and

2390
02:16:50,570 --> 02:16:52,550
Speaker 2: he used it to issue orders to his millions of

2391
02:16:52,610 --> 02:16:55,810
Speaker 2: followers about what to do online and in social media.

2392
02:16:56,170 --> 02:16:58,709
Speaker 2: And among these kind of standing orders were do not

2393
02:16:58,770 --> 02:17:01,970
Speaker 2: engage with far-right narratives. Don't talk to these people. Don't

2394
02:17:02,129 --> 02:17:05,170
Speaker 2: argue with them. Don't respond to bait posts, not even to, like,

2395
02:17:05,330 --> 02:17:07,919
Speaker 2: dunk them. Block all of the shit that you see

2396
02:17:07,980 --> 02:17:10,160
Speaker 2: from these guys to cut off the flow of attention

2397
02:17:10,170 --> 02:17:12,560
Speaker 2: to the fascists and at the same time flood the

2398
02:17:12,640 --> 02:17:15,850
Speaker 2: internet with stories that are useful to Lula's campaign. These

2399
02:17:15,890 --> 02:17:17,830
Speaker 2: are not just like pro-Lula messages. There was a lot

2400
02:17:17,850 --> 02:17:21,200
Speaker 2: of like, in some cases, boarding on conspiracy theorizing about

2401
02:17:21,260 --> 02:17:23,580
Speaker 2: Flavio Bolsonaro and the stuff that he had gotten up to,

2402
02:17:23,640 --> 02:17:26,300
Speaker 2: like pointing out his ties to Freemasonry, right? It was

2403
02:17:26,400 --> 02:17:28,379
Speaker 2: all stuff that would go viral and it would make

2404
02:17:28,500 --> 02:17:32,640
Speaker 2: fellow far-right assholes look bad. This channel, Lula's Army, was

2405
02:17:32,720 --> 02:17:35,570
Speaker 2: cited as a major reason for Lula's victory by everyone

2406
02:17:35,590 --> 02:17:38,890
Speaker 2: I've interviewed so far and by Lula at their victory party.

2407
02:17:38,970 --> 02:17:43,050
Speaker 2: He specifically shouted out General Llanones as the guy who

2408
02:17:43,090 --> 02:17:45,030
Speaker 2: had been the architect of of a lot of their

2409
02:17:45,150 --> 02:17:48,120
Speaker 2: online strategy. And this was very much framed as like,

2410
02:17:48,160 --> 02:17:50,880
Speaker 2: this is the far right's place of strength is the

2411
02:17:50,959 --> 02:17:54,090
Speaker 2: internet and like virality. And if we're going to actually

2412
02:17:54,150 --> 02:17:56,310
Speaker 2: beat these people, we have to be willing to like

2413
02:17:56,870 --> 02:17:59,450
Speaker 2: take the fight to them in this domain and win.

2414
02:17:59,470 --> 02:18:01,590
Speaker 2: And this was very much like Lula's army was very

2415
02:18:01,629 --> 02:18:04,640
Speaker 2: much an attempt to I want to quote from an

2416
02:18:04,680 --> 02:18:06,920
Speaker 2: anonymous source or a source that I talked to that

2417
02:18:06,940 --> 02:18:08,879
Speaker 2: wants to remain anonymous, but provided me some of his

2418
02:18:08,959 --> 02:18:11,680
Speaker 2: thoughts on like what had happened and what had worked

2419
02:18:11,740 --> 02:18:14,400
Speaker 2: from this online strategy. One of the things I thought

2420
02:18:14,440 --> 02:18:17,180
Speaker 2: was interesting, he described, you know, his thesis to me

2421
02:18:17,379 --> 02:18:20,990
Speaker 2: as we can reverse SEO and election through mass action.

2422
02:18:21,650 --> 02:18:23,789
Speaker 2: What I have witnessed from afar is basically millions of

2423
02:18:23,850 --> 02:18:27,410
Speaker 2: politically disengaged, normie working people saw this kind of small-time

2424
02:18:27,450 --> 02:18:30,230
Speaker 2: politician make some Instagram video about how they personally could

2425
02:18:30,250 --> 02:18:33,650
Speaker 2: change history by blocking your chud Bolsonaro cousin, printing out

2426
02:18:33,690 --> 02:18:36,529
Speaker 2: some articles to show your unconvinced auntie, searching things like

2427
02:18:36,570 --> 02:18:40,270
Speaker 2: Flavio Bolsonaro defended murderer of child on Google repeatedly until

2428
02:18:40,350 --> 02:18:43,300
Speaker 2: national newspapers were forced to mention it. He was literally

2429
02:18:43,330 --> 02:18:46,030
Speaker 2: doing little courses and videos like guys practice with me,

2430
02:18:46,160 --> 02:18:49,840
Speaker 2: anti-Lula clickbait, swipe away, don't click, don't argue, don't screenshot

2431
02:18:49,860 --> 02:18:52,860
Speaker 2: and quote tweet. Just swipe away like this. And now

2432
02:18:52,900 --> 02:18:54,940
Speaker 2: all these people have been posting for days, like, I

2433
02:18:54,980 --> 02:18:57,199
Speaker 2: have social anxiety, but I've been sleeping four hours a

2434
02:18:57,240 --> 02:18:59,020
Speaker 2: night to go talk with people all day. My life

2435
02:18:59,040 --> 02:19:00,859
Speaker 2: has changed. I think we'll need to be doing this

2436
02:19:00,900 --> 02:19:04,070
Speaker 2: for years to crush the fascists. This person expressed to

2437
02:19:04,129 --> 02:19:06,379
Speaker 2: me that they doubted at one point whether what was

2438
02:19:06,430 --> 02:19:09,060
Speaker 2: going on was any different from like the common social

2439
02:19:09,100 --> 02:19:11,860
Speaker 2: media delusion of thinking, oh, if I like retweet the

2440
02:19:11,900 --> 02:19:15,720
Speaker 2: right stuff, maybe it'll change politics. But this concerted activism

2441
02:19:15,860 --> 02:19:19,039
Speaker 2: did change politics because people were not just engaging with

2442
02:19:19,060 --> 02:19:21,709
Speaker 2: shit that inspired or pissed them off based on their id.

2443
02:19:22,010 --> 02:19:25,370
Speaker 2: They were acting strategically to block and deny the enemy

2444
02:19:25,430 --> 02:19:28,830
Speaker 2: terrain in which to maneuver. Here's another quote from that source.

2445
02:19:29,330 --> 02:19:31,300
Speaker 2: One of his tips, he's talking about Yonona's, One of

2446
02:19:31,340 --> 02:19:34,160
Speaker 2: his tips slash directives was something like, okay, we will

2447
02:19:34,180 --> 02:19:38,199
Speaker 2: post about topic X, but we will avoid keywords like Lula, PT,

2448
02:19:38,260 --> 02:19:41,459
Speaker 2: which is Lula's party, because meta has muted them. And instead,

2449
02:19:41,500 --> 02:19:44,280
Speaker 2: we'll use the hashtags of the enemy. So like Clockwork

2450
02:19:44,340 --> 02:19:47,990
Speaker 2: searching hashtag I'm with Flavio 22 or something on Instagram

2451
02:19:48,200 --> 02:19:50,430
Speaker 2: got you a wall of people doing the L fingers

2452
02:19:50,470 --> 02:19:53,970
Speaker 2: for Lula. It's all very signal jamming-y, while also completely

2453
02:19:54,050 --> 02:19:57,030
Speaker 2: low tech, like Americans just shooting flock cameras and all.

2454
02:19:57,350 --> 02:19:57,750
Speaker 17: LOL.

2455
02:19:58,150 --> 02:19:58,390
Speaker 1: That's it.

2456
02:19:58,750 --> 02:20:05,340
Speaker 6: Incredible. I've never been more proud of my people.

2457
02:20:05,600 --> 02:20:10,120
Speaker 16: I hope that becomes a new American international thing. They

2458
02:20:10,160 --> 02:20:13,200
Speaker 16: wear the fucking Realtree camouflage and they shoot flock cameras.

2459
02:20:13,620 --> 02:20:16,550
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's our new stereotype. A flock camera is not safe.

2460
02:20:16,770 --> 02:20:19,810
Speaker 7: This is our new Goku. It's the international communication.

2461
02:20:19,830 --> 02:20:21,850
Speaker 6: That's that communication. Hang on.

2462
02:20:21,930 --> 02:20:22,320
Speaker 1: Hang on.

2463
02:20:24,070 --> 02:20:26,550
Speaker 2: Now, as I said, we'll have a more detailed explanation

2464
02:20:26,570 --> 02:20:27,630
Speaker 2: of what happens soon.

2465
02:20:27,790 --> 02:20:28,790
Speaker 6: It's important that you know.

2466
02:20:28,830 --> 02:20:30,010
Speaker 2: And one thing I did want to point out is

2467
02:20:30,030 --> 02:20:32,300
Speaker 2: like one reason why they were focused on having, hey,

2468
02:20:32,330 --> 02:20:34,730
Speaker 2: we've got 10 million people start searching for like the

2469
02:20:34,770 --> 02:20:37,140
Speaker 2: same things, the same terms to make them go viral.

2470
02:20:37,670 --> 02:20:40,500
Speaker 2: Some Brazilian major news stations had like developed a kind

2471
02:20:40,540 --> 02:20:42,520
Speaker 2: of like a daily thing they would do of like.

2472
02:20:42,459 --> 02:20:44,060
Speaker 1: What's trending online.

2473
02:20:44,220 --> 02:20:44,539
Speaker 14: Yeah.

2474
02:20:44,560 --> 02:20:46,400
Speaker 2: And so if you have 11 million people in a

2475
02:20:46,459 --> 02:20:49,280
Speaker 2: WhatsApp group and you can make whatever shit you want

2476
02:20:49,340 --> 02:20:51,330
Speaker 2: about like the guy you want to defeat.

2477
02:20:51,120 --> 02:20:53,590
Speaker 6: Trend, that's a really powerful tactic.

2478
02:20:54,010 --> 02:20:54,369
Speaker 4: You know?

2479
02:20:54,970 --> 02:20:59,450
Speaker 10: If there's anything I've learned from using Twitter, Brazilians love

2480
02:20:59,490 --> 02:21:00,029
Speaker 10: to post.

2481
02:21:00,290 --> 02:21:03,250
Speaker 6: They're huge posters. They're posty-ass people, yeah.

2482
02:21:03,270 --> 02:21:08,030
Speaker 10: They are some of the most online people I've ever encountered.

2483
02:21:08,330 --> 02:21:08,570
Speaker 9: Yeah.

2484
02:21:08,590 --> 02:21:11,830
Speaker 10: But as much as this sort of organized posting strategy

2485
02:21:12,220 --> 02:21:15,000
Speaker 10: was a major aspect of this election and this organizing,

2486
02:21:15,020 --> 02:21:17,980
Speaker 10: which it was, there was a few other things you

2487
02:21:18,020 --> 02:21:20,970
Speaker 10: mentioned about printing off things to give to your aunt. Yes.

2488
02:21:21,900 --> 02:21:25,240
Speaker 10: other like in-person engagement, like having every person go out

2489
02:21:25,340 --> 02:21:28,580
Speaker 10: and like try to either flip someone that they know

2490
02:21:29,400 --> 02:21:32,200
Speaker 10: or talk to people who've like checked out of the

2491
02:21:32,220 --> 02:21:34,580
Speaker 10: political process and like harassed them into voting.

2492
02:21:35,040 --> 02:21:35,220
Speaker 15: Yeah.

2493
02:21:35,260 --> 02:21:37,199
Speaker 2: And I've even seen cases of people just sort of

2494
02:21:37,280 --> 02:21:41,060
Speaker 2: convincing their Bolsonaro supporting relatives to like go on vacation

2495
02:21:41,080 --> 02:21:45,379
Speaker 2: during the election.

2496
02:21:46,120 --> 02:21:47,000
Speaker 6: That's pretty funny.

2497
02:21:48,250 --> 02:21:50,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a wide-ranging and creative effort, and I

2498
02:21:50,780 --> 02:21:53,320
Speaker 2: think this is really important. A lot of the stuff

2499
02:21:53,480 --> 02:21:56,599
Speaker 2: that was being done through Lula's army is not what

2500
02:21:56,620 --> 02:22:00,870
Speaker 2: you'd traditionally call ethical, certainly not in American politics. I

2501
02:22:00,890 --> 02:22:03,590
Speaker 2: don't have a problem with it, but this is getting

2502
02:22:03,650 --> 02:22:08,260
Speaker 2: down into the muck, right? This is not clean fighting.

2503
02:22:08,300 --> 02:22:11,780
Speaker 2: This is not going high. This is seeing what the

2504
02:22:11,820 --> 02:22:13,680
Speaker 2: far right's been doing for the last decade to get

2505
02:22:13,700 --> 02:22:15,620
Speaker 2: into power and going like, all right, well, two can

2506
02:22:15,660 --> 02:22:19,020
Speaker 2: play at that game, motherfucker. You know, like, I think

2507
02:22:19,060 --> 02:22:22,100
Speaker 2: that is important to acknowledge here. I'm seeing a lot

2508
02:22:22,140 --> 02:22:24,120
Speaker 2: of people online going like, this is proof that all

2509
02:22:24,140 --> 02:22:25,780
Speaker 2: we need to do is vote. And it's like, well,

2510
02:22:26,910 --> 02:22:29,230
Speaker 2: the first round is proof of what happens when all

2511
02:22:29,310 --> 02:22:32,130
Speaker 2: you do is vote. The second round victory is proof

2512
02:22:32,150 --> 02:22:35,950
Speaker 2: of what happens is when you get fucking creative, you know? Anyway,

2513
02:22:36,150 --> 02:22:39,050
Speaker 2: we'll have a more detailed explanation of everything that happens soon.

2514
02:22:39,580 --> 02:22:41,990
Speaker 2: It's important that you know right now that after his defeat,

2515
02:22:42,070 --> 02:22:44,750
Speaker 2: Flavia was ordered to turn in his passport because he

2516
02:22:44,790 --> 02:22:47,879
Speaker 2: was actively under investigation for a bunch of crimes related

2517
02:22:47,900 --> 02:22:49,860
Speaker 2: to corruption that he definitely committed.

2518
02:22:50,260 --> 02:22:51,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, tons of them.

2519
02:22:51,890 --> 02:22:54,590
Speaker 2: And after initially trying to get the election results rescinded,

2520
02:22:54,670 --> 02:22:57,570
Speaker 2: Flavio gave up on that, promised to return in his passport,

2521
02:22:57,690 --> 02:23:00,810
Speaker 2: and then fled the country. It looks like Marco Rubio

2522
02:23:00,990 --> 02:23:04,100
Speaker 2: helped orchestrate all of this. Basically, my understanding is he

2523
02:23:04,160 --> 02:23:07,360
Speaker 2: stepped into Argentina and then got on a flight that

2524
02:23:07,520 --> 02:23:10,379
Speaker 2: eventually led him to the United States with the help

2525
02:23:10,420 --> 02:23:13,459
Speaker 2: of the State Department. A senior State Department official told

2526
02:23:13,540 --> 02:23:16,080
Speaker 2: USA Today the State Department will issue visas to Flavio

2527
02:23:16,100 --> 02:23:18,180
Speaker 2: Bolsonaro and his family and allow them entry into the

2528
02:23:18,240 --> 02:23:20,260
Speaker 2: United States. And sure enough, a few hours after that,

2529
02:23:20,700 --> 02:23:21,660
Speaker 2: He landed in Miami.

2530
02:23:22,020 --> 02:23:22,959
Speaker 6: Like father, like son.

2531
02:23:23,260 --> 02:23:25,619
Speaker 2: Like father, like son.

2532
02:23:26,320 --> 02:23:29,839
Speaker 16: I love that the list of Asylees and fucking refugees

2533
02:23:29,860 --> 02:23:32,279
Speaker 16: we accept is white South Africans are people whose last

2534
02:23:32,320 --> 02:23:33,300
Speaker 16: name is Bolsonaro.

2535
02:23:33,340 --> 02:23:34,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, we're great on that.

2536
02:23:34,940 --> 02:23:38,550
Speaker 7: This is my one initial criticism of Lula too, which is,

2537
02:23:39,120 --> 02:23:42,170
Speaker 7: as the great Marxist historian C.L.R. James said, the rich

2538
02:23:42,190 --> 02:23:44,170
Speaker 7: are only defeated when they are running for your lives.

2539
02:23:44,209 --> 02:23:46,610
Speaker 7: He forgot to add, you have to actually catch them.

2540
02:23:47,500 --> 02:23:49,340
Speaker 6: You have to catch them before they can run.

2541
02:23:49,379 --> 02:23:51,490
Speaker 16: I've got to wonder where he was watching the election

2542
02:23:51,520 --> 02:23:53,830
Speaker 16: party from, right? Like to have easy access to a

2543
02:23:53,870 --> 02:23:55,830
Speaker 16: land border where he can walk across.

2544
02:23:55,870 --> 02:23:58,269
Speaker 2: He must have been really making sure that he had

2545
02:23:58,310 --> 02:24:02,040
Speaker 2: that figured out ahead of time. Yeah, he covered his

2546
02:24:02,100 --> 02:24:04,600
Speaker 2: back there. I know Lula had a good response when

2547
02:24:04,620 --> 02:24:06,940
Speaker 2: it came out that Flavio has fled. He stated at

2548
02:24:07,140 --> 02:24:09,500
Speaker 2: a rally, this is what the Bolsonaro family is like.

2549
02:24:09,600 --> 02:24:10,820
Speaker 2: Brazil is their second nation.

2550
02:24:10,860 --> 02:24:11,259
Speaker 14: The U.S.

2551
02:24:11,330 --> 02:24:11,990
Speaker 1: Is their first.

2552
02:24:14,470 --> 02:24:16,250
Speaker 6: That's a fucking dunk. That's good.

2553
02:24:16,610 --> 02:24:20,490
Speaker 2: We'll see what happens and how the U.S. regime uses Flavio.

2554
02:24:20,590 --> 02:24:23,850
Speaker 2: Will Chamberlain of the Edmund Burke Foundation, which is supported

2555
02:24:23,920 --> 02:24:26,940
Speaker 2: by Peter Thiel. And I want to note that Ginny

2556
02:24:27,000 --> 02:24:29,459
Speaker 2: Kahn is the person who made me aware of this.

2557
02:24:29,680 --> 02:24:33,480
Speaker 2: She writes for the Bucks County Beacon. But yeah, he

2558
02:24:33,700 --> 02:24:36,860
Speaker 2: recently put out a statement saying, and I'm going to

2559
02:24:37,040 --> 02:24:40,460
Speaker 2: read from Will Chamberlain's statement, Flavio Bolsonaro's passport was canceled.

2560
02:24:40,480 --> 02:24:42,380
Speaker 2: He was forced to flee the country by Lula. His

2561
02:24:42,400 --> 02:24:45,390
Speaker 2: brother Eduardo has an arrest warrant for lobbying against the U.S.

2562
02:24:45,870 --> 02:24:47,650
Speaker 2: It's time for the Brazilian left to face the full

2563
02:24:47,690 --> 02:24:50,650
Speaker 2: force of American diplomatic and economic sanctions until they stop

2564
02:24:50,709 --> 02:24:52,050
Speaker 2: acting like a banana republic.

2565
02:24:52,490 --> 02:24:54,090
Speaker 1: And he's basically encouraging the.

2566
02:24:54,070 --> 02:24:57,790
Speaker 2: United States to treat Brazil like we treated Russia after

2567
02:24:57,810 --> 02:25:01,830
Speaker 2: the expanded invasion of Ukraine. including visa bans on government

2568
02:25:01,870 --> 02:25:06,400
Speaker 2: officials and also quadrupling tariffs on Brazilian goods. Chamberlain ended

2569
02:25:06,440 --> 02:25:08,620
Speaker 2: his message by saying the Brazilian regime should look carefully

2570
02:25:08,640 --> 02:25:10,660
Speaker 2: at what has happened to Venezuela and Cuba and remember

2571
02:25:10,700 --> 02:25:13,480
Speaker 2: that this hemisphere belongs to the United States of America.

2572
02:25:13,980 --> 02:25:16,680
Speaker 6: Oh, I don't like that. I don't like that at all.

2573
02:25:16,920 --> 02:25:17,680
Speaker 1: We'll see where that goes.

2574
02:25:17,700 --> 02:25:22,310
Speaker 16: That's the Don Roe doctrine. That's a new advanced level

2575
02:25:22,350 --> 02:25:26,010
Speaker 16: of Don Roe doctrine. Actually, this hemisphere belongs to is wild.

2576
02:25:26,370 --> 02:25:26,570
Speaker 12: Yeah.

2577
02:25:28,070 --> 02:25:31,790
Speaker 10: It was interesting how kind of slightly tepid Trump's reaction

2578
02:25:31,850 --> 02:25:34,910
Speaker 10: to Bolsonaro losing was like he, he didn't, he didn't

2579
02:25:35,030 --> 02:25:38,990
Speaker 10: echo Bolsonaro's claims that the election was like rigged or stolen,

2580
02:25:39,430 --> 02:25:42,970
Speaker 10: but also said, I didn't take sides, but it was

2581
02:25:43,010 --> 02:25:46,230
Speaker 10: a terrible look for the world. Elections have to be indisputable.

2582
02:25:46,550 --> 02:25:49,000
Speaker 10: And it looked really bad to me, but he didn't

2583
02:25:49,010 --> 02:25:52,020
Speaker 10: really elaborate much more. Like he could, he could have

2584
02:25:52,060 --> 02:25:55,530
Speaker 10: gone a lot harder. And it's like, I didn't take

2585
02:25:55,629 --> 02:25:59,470
Speaker 10: sides is his first main response.

2586
02:25:59,709 --> 02:26:01,890
Speaker 6: Yeah. I assume he was like, all right, well, if

2587
02:26:01,910 --> 02:26:03,610
Speaker 6: they'd thrown a coup, we would have supported it, but

2588
02:26:03,640 --> 02:26:05,699
Speaker 6: he didn't throw a coup, so fuck it. Yeah.

2589
02:26:05,820 --> 02:26:08,240
Speaker 16: I think he also doesn't like to be associated with failure.

2590
02:26:08,320 --> 02:26:10,800
Speaker 6: He doesn't like a loser. And he lost by 4

2591
02:26:10,800 --> 02:26:11,520
Speaker 6: million votes.

2592
02:26:11,680 --> 02:26:12,019
Speaker 7: Oh, yeah.

2593
02:26:12,060 --> 02:26:13,129
Speaker 6: Dude took a fat L.

2594
02:26:13,400 --> 02:26:17,330
Speaker 10: Lula had to catch up by 2.5 million votes. And

2595
02:26:17,350 --> 02:26:18,990
Speaker 10: then won by 4 million.

2596
02:26:19,030 --> 02:26:19,650
Speaker 6: It's crazy.

2597
02:26:19,970 --> 02:26:24,950
Speaker 10: It's hard to dispute that. Even the extended voting hours

2598
02:26:25,000 --> 02:26:30,220
Speaker 10: because of issues on voting day only netted him 30,000 votes,

2599
02:26:30,220 --> 02:26:35,170
Speaker 10: 35,000 votes. And that election extension was requested by both

2600
02:26:35,209 --> 02:26:36,970
Speaker 10: Bolsonaro and Lula. Yeah.

2601
02:26:37,540 --> 02:26:40,410
Speaker 2: Yeah, but Flavio Bolsonaro has pretended he didn't ask for it.

2602
02:26:40,660 --> 02:26:42,810
Speaker 10: Yeah, well, and he, I think, announced today that he's

2603
02:26:42,830 --> 02:26:46,510
Speaker 10: like the rightful president of Brazil from Florida.

2604
02:26:46,730 --> 02:26:49,310
Speaker 6: Sure, yeah, great. Keep that grift going.

2605
02:26:49,370 --> 02:26:50,570
Speaker 1: Get those four million.

2606
02:26:50,310 --> 02:26:53,150
Speaker 6: People out of the way. Maybe the coup's still to come.

2607
02:26:53,690 --> 02:26:54,129
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.

2608
02:26:54,190 --> 02:26:56,109
Speaker 2: I mean, who knows what kind of shit they'll try.

2609
02:26:56,450 --> 02:26:58,830
Speaker 2: But also, Brazil is not Venezuela.

2610
02:26:59,030 --> 02:27:00,730
Speaker 6: Well, he's going to get on the list. At some point,

2611
02:27:00,750 --> 02:27:03,690
Speaker 6: they're going to try some shit in Cuba, right? So, like... Cuba.

2612
02:27:04,530 --> 02:27:06,600
Speaker 2: That's another one where they might be able to at

2613
02:27:06,680 --> 02:27:10,340
Speaker 2: least accomplish their initial goal of like kidnapping and excising

2614
02:27:10,379 --> 02:27:11,459
Speaker 2: the people they want to get out.

2615
02:27:11,400 --> 02:27:11,900
Speaker 1: Of the country.

2616
02:27:12,180 --> 02:27:16,820
Speaker 16: Rubio made a fantastic tweet, like trying to recruit CIA operatives.

2617
02:27:17,100 --> 02:27:17,800
Speaker 6: Oh, yeah.

2618
02:27:17,840 --> 02:27:18,080
Speaker 7: Yes.

2619
02:27:18,360 --> 02:27:21,560
Speaker 1: Yes. Well, I don't think you can do that with Brazil.

2620
02:27:22,260 --> 02:27:23,610
Speaker 6: Big ass country. Yeah.

2621
02:27:24,050 --> 02:27:24,950
Speaker 1: Very big country.

2622
02:27:24,970 --> 02:27:25,750
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2623
02:27:26,250 --> 02:27:28,830
Speaker 10: This is certainly the most exciting kind of election turnaround

2624
02:27:28,850 --> 02:27:32,260
Speaker 10: that we've seen. And like you said, it's going to

2625
02:27:32,280 --> 02:27:34,990
Speaker 10: be a hard fight for Lula and the Workers' Party

2626
02:27:35,270 --> 02:27:37,310
Speaker 10: in Brazil because they are dealing with a very, very

2627
02:27:37,370 --> 02:27:38,660
Speaker 10: far-right Congress. Yeah.

2628
02:27:39,379 --> 02:27:43,929
Speaker 6: But at least there will be a fight. It's a fight. Yeah.

2629
02:27:44,470 --> 02:27:48,750
Speaker 6: We have a game. All right. Let's hear from Bolsonaro.

2630
02:27:49,170 --> 02:28:03,959
Speaker 6: It's New Colón. All right, we are back.

2631
02:28:04,600 --> 02:28:08,950
Speaker 16: And what we are talking about now is non-citizen voting.

2632
02:28:08,990 --> 02:28:13,150
Speaker 6: Very scary. This qualifies as a spooky segment. Yeah. Yeah,

2633
02:28:13,230 --> 02:28:15,510
Speaker 6: I heard it's a big deal. This is what's going

2634
02:28:15,530 --> 02:28:19,039
Speaker 6: to destroy the democracy. And I feel strongly about borders.

2635
02:28:19,240 --> 02:28:20,900
Speaker 6: Maybe that's what Bolsonaro is going to go for, you know?

2636
02:28:21,890 --> 02:28:23,810
Speaker 6: He's the only one who's going to get caught voting.

2637
02:28:24,690 --> 02:28:28,320
Speaker 16: Well, unfortunately, Margaret. Well, not the only one, Margaret. Some

2638
02:28:28,340 --> 02:28:30,420
Speaker 16: people have already been committing voter fraud. We're going to

2639
02:28:30,440 --> 02:28:33,420
Speaker 16: hear about that after we hear... Well, actually, ISIS News

2640
02:28:33,459 --> 02:28:35,920
Speaker 16: page yesterday announced that they had arrested a legal permanent

2641
02:28:35,959 --> 02:28:40,780
Speaker 16: resident for voting in the 2024 election. Joyce Pitts, they allege,

2642
02:28:40,840 --> 02:28:43,850
Speaker 16: is a Dutch citizen living in Pennsylvania who cast a

2643
02:28:43,870 --> 02:28:48,629
Speaker 16: ballot illegally in 2024. She's one of nine people charged

2644
02:28:48,670 --> 02:28:49,990
Speaker 16: in a statewide investigation.

2645
02:28:50,010 --> 02:28:50,530
Speaker 6: Nine people.

2646
02:28:50,590 --> 02:28:50,750
Speaker 10: Ooh.

2647
02:28:51,850 --> 02:28:55,690
Speaker 16: So yeah, if anyone's keeping tabs, you probably won't need

2648
02:28:55,730 --> 02:28:58,490
Speaker 16: more than your fingers and toes, and you will actually. Meanwhile,

2649
02:28:58,590 --> 02:29:03,510
Speaker 16: the DOJ is claiming that 20,000 non-citizens are on California's

2650
02:29:03,550 --> 02:29:07,170
Speaker 16: voter rolls. In a post on x.com, the Everything website,

2651
02:29:07,300 --> 02:29:11,200
Speaker 16: the White House asserts this number as an absolute. But

2652
02:29:11,780 --> 02:29:14,900
Speaker 16: in the complaint filed by the DOJ, they are referred

2653
02:29:14,920 --> 02:29:15,400
Speaker 16: to as, quote, likely.

2654
02:29:21,060 --> 02:29:23,740
Speaker 6: Non-citizens. And this is a super important distinction.

2655
02:29:24,000 --> 02:29:27,030
Speaker 10: Yeah. Yeah. It's incredibly important. We're going to find out why, but...

2656
02:29:27,150 --> 02:29:28,650
Speaker 10: Lest us forget Nevada.

2657
02:29:29,150 --> 02:29:29,369
Speaker 17: Yes.

2658
02:29:29,570 --> 02:29:29,750
Speaker 11: Yeah.

2659
02:29:29,810 --> 02:29:29,970
Speaker 2: Right.

2660
02:29:30,110 --> 02:29:32,470
Speaker 16: And I think where none of them turned out to

2661
02:29:32,510 --> 02:29:35,730
Speaker 16: be non-citizens who are voting. It's worth noting that the

2662
02:29:35,750 --> 02:29:39,740
Speaker 16: DOJ is attempting to get California to sequester ballots from

2663
02:29:39,780 --> 02:29:45,600
Speaker 16: its 20,000 likely non-citizens, right? Saying that they could influence

2664
02:29:45,620 --> 02:29:47,830
Speaker 16: the outcome of the election. It's worth noting that they

2665
02:29:47,930 --> 02:29:51,770
Speaker 16: filed this on October the 15th. That is less than

2666
02:29:51,810 --> 02:29:54,970
Speaker 16: a month before polls close, right? Well into early voting

2667
02:29:55,010 --> 02:29:58,150
Speaker 16: in some states. The list was sent on a thumb

2668
02:29:58,190 --> 02:30:01,320
Speaker 16: drive to the state and the state failed to review

2669
02:30:01,400 --> 02:30:04,420
Speaker 16: said thumb drive within 48 hours as a DOJ asked

2670
02:30:04,459 --> 02:30:08,760
Speaker 16: them to. The DOJ is asking California to sequester this

2671
02:30:08,800 --> 02:30:10,480
Speaker 16: ballot and is trying to go through the courts to

2672
02:30:10,520 --> 02:30:12,670
Speaker 16: make them do it. Whether or not they will have

2673
02:30:12,709 --> 02:30:14,790
Speaker 16: to do that is currently being decided in court by

2674
02:30:14,890 --> 02:30:15,870
Speaker 16: Judge David O.

2675
02:30:15,910 --> 02:30:19,310
Speaker 6: Carter. O is his middle name, the initial of his

2676
02:30:19,350 --> 02:30:22,670
Speaker 6: middle name. It's not like the way that an Irish

2677
02:30:22,709 --> 02:30:25,230
Speaker 6: person would have their name. I was just confused for

2678
02:30:25,250 --> 02:30:26,570
Speaker 6: a long time about this, but I couldn't find an

2679
02:30:26,610 --> 02:30:29,180
Speaker 6: apostrophe anywhere and it took me a while. Yeah, honestly,

2680
02:30:29,200 --> 02:30:30,840
Speaker 6: if your middle name starts with O, I feel like

2681
02:30:30,860 --> 02:30:32,990
Speaker 6: you kind of got to... go by your middle name

2682
02:30:33,370 --> 02:30:34,810
Speaker 6: or cut it out entirely.

2683
02:30:34,870 --> 02:30:38,320
Speaker 16: Yeah, it's either way, but a very confusing way to

2684
02:30:38,560 --> 02:30:41,760
Speaker 16: present one's name. On Monday, the Ninth Circuit dismissed the

2685
02:30:41,780 --> 02:30:44,980
Speaker 16: Trump administration's appeal saying, quote, the United States failed to

2686
02:30:45,000 --> 02:30:47,859
Speaker 16: allow the district court adequate opportunity to consider its application

2687
02:30:47,900 --> 02:30:50,520
Speaker 16: for a temporary restraining order. For that reason, we lack

2688
02:30:50,540 --> 02:30:53,379
Speaker 16: jurisdiction over this appeal. So we grant the county's motion

2689
02:30:53,420 --> 02:30:55,810
Speaker 16: to dismiss this appeal and deny as moot the United

2690
02:30:55,840 --> 02:30:59,110
Speaker 16: States emergency motion for relief. So In this case, the

2691
02:30:59,170 --> 02:31:00,000
Speaker 16: county would be L.A.

2692
02:31:00,080 --> 02:31:00,580
Speaker 6: County, right?

2693
02:31:00,600 --> 02:31:03,780
Speaker 16: They're trying to force the counties to sequester these ballots.

2694
02:31:03,820 --> 02:31:05,460
Speaker 16: The county is saying, no, we're not going to do that.

2695
02:31:06,240 --> 02:31:08,939
Speaker 16: In the hearing the day before we're recording this on Tuesday,

2696
02:31:09,430 --> 02:31:11,750
Speaker 16: Judge Carter, going to just use Carter from now on,

2697
02:31:12,250 --> 02:31:17,130
Speaker 16: asked First Assistant United States Attorney Bilala Saleh why, if

2698
02:31:17,170 --> 02:31:19,940
Speaker 16: the issue was so big, they had not charged more people.

2699
02:31:20,550 --> 02:31:23,110
Speaker 16: Karl Matos has some good courtroom reporting on this. Quote,

2700
02:31:23,379 --> 02:31:25,680
Speaker 16: if it's that big, you've got a remedy for goodness sakes,

2701
02:31:25,920 --> 02:31:29,000
Speaker 16: the judge said. Go out and indict. Carter, who has

2702
02:31:29,040 --> 02:31:31,940
Speaker 16: previously denied the DOJ's request for the entire voter rolls

2703
02:31:31,959 --> 02:31:35,039
Speaker 16: to the state, also said, quote, some of these may

2704
02:31:35,080 --> 02:31:38,800
Speaker 16: be very valid voters, and that's my concern about disenfranchisement.

2705
02:31:39,260 --> 02:31:41,709
Speaker 16: He indicated that he's likely to appoint a special master

2706
02:31:41,750 --> 02:31:43,970
Speaker 16: to look at the evidence, which will not happen before

2707
02:31:44,010 --> 02:31:46,690
Speaker 16: November 3rd. He did seem to indicate that he would

2708
02:31:46,950 --> 02:31:51,070
Speaker 16: be ordering the feds to stop intimidating local election officials, saying, quote,

2709
02:31:51,530 --> 02:31:54,129
Speaker 16: this court believes it would be wise to any threats

2710
02:31:54,170 --> 02:31:58,190
Speaker 16: to state or county election employees cease immediately. What a

2711
02:31:58,330 --> 02:32:00,270
Speaker 16: formal way of saying, like, I'll fuck you up.

2712
02:32:00,709 --> 02:32:01,189
Speaker 10: Yeah.

2713
02:32:01,209 --> 02:32:03,400
Speaker 6: The court believes it would be wise if you were

2714
02:32:03,420 --> 02:32:04,170
Speaker 6: to step back.

2715
02:32:04,700 --> 02:32:04,880
Speaker 10: Yeah.

2716
02:32:05,040 --> 02:32:05,620
Speaker 6: Immediately.

2717
02:32:05,640 --> 02:32:06,459
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2718
02:32:06,780 --> 02:32:11,800
Speaker 6: That is a very judgy way of saying, come at me. Like, oh, don't. Yeah.

2719
02:32:11,860 --> 02:32:12,480
Speaker 6: I will come at you.

2720
02:32:13,160 --> 02:32:16,140
Speaker 16: So let's talk about that intimidation. On Friday, the DOJ

2721
02:32:16,220 --> 02:32:19,900
Speaker 16: sent letters to all 53 California counties, according to reporting

2722
02:32:19,940 --> 02:32:23,470
Speaker 16: in the New York Times. The letters contained a subset

2723
02:32:23,550 --> 02:32:27,370
Speaker 16: of the 20,000, they say, and gave election officials 48

2724
02:32:27,370 --> 02:32:31,929
Speaker 16: hours from Friday, that's the weekend, to identify who on

2725
02:32:31,950 --> 02:32:34,039
Speaker 16: the accompanying list is a citizen and who is not.

2726
02:32:34,200 --> 02:32:34,820
Speaker 6: It's a quotation.

2727
02:32:35,430 --> 02:32:37,990
Speaker 16: It then went on to say if, quote, citizenship status

2728
02:32:38,010 --> 02:32:40,550
Speaker 16: cannot be confirmed, we request you immediately instruct the appropriate

2729
02:32:40,570 --> 02:32:45,540
Speaker 16: elections official to segregate, not cancel, those individuals vote by

2730
02:32:45,600 --> 02:32:49,760
Speaker 16: mail ballots until their citizenship status can be determined. It

2731
02:32:49,920 --> 02:32:52,740
Speaker 16: seems that they tried to cut up the list by

2732
02:32:52,840 --> 02:32:56,320
Speaker 16: county here. In your county, for example, Northern California, got

2733
02:32:56,400 --> 02:33:00,410
Speaker 16: two names, neither of whom have been issued ballots. Mendocino,

2734
02:33:00,830 --> 02:33:03,910
Speaker 16: according to the registrar who was interviewed by the Times,

2735
02:33:03,950 --> 02:33:04,790
Speaker 16: got the wrong list.

2736
02:33:05,070 --> 02:33:07,770
Speaker 6: Quote, it's from another county. Incredible.

2737
02:33:08,209 --> 02:33:12,010
Speaker 16: Feds requested sensitive personal information like social security numbers to

2738
02:33:12,030 --> 02:33:13,150
Speaker 16: determine eligibility.

2739
02:33:13,690 --> 02:33:17,410
Speaker 10: And social security numbers do not... correspond to someone's citizenship

2740
02:33:17,430 --> 02:33:18,930
Speaker 10: status necessarily.

2741
02:33:18,790 --> 02:33:21,410
Speaker 16: Yeah well i mean yeah you there are certain points

2742
02:33:21,470 --> 02:33:24,670
Speaker 16: within your citizenship journey where you can get very like

2743
02:33:24,690 --> 02:33:26,570
Speaker 16: an itin or an ssn but that is not like

2744
02:33:26,610 --> 02:33:28,630
Speaker 16: a that's not like a black white as you say

2745
02:33:29,209 --> 02:33:33,730
Speaker 16: the feds also sent a letter to the office of

2746
02:33:33,750 --> 02:33:37,500
Speaker 16: the council so that i'm saying council sel not council

2747
02:33:37,640 --> 02:33:39,710
Speaker 16: c-i-l for Los Angeles County.

2748
02:33:39,870 --> 02:33:41,369
Speaker 6: Like legal counsel. Yes, exactly.

2749
02:33:41,510 --> 02:33:41,670
Speaker 10: Yeah.

2750
02:33:41,910 --> 02:33:45,459
Speaker 6: It's just in the audio format. I'm trying to distinguish

2751
02:33:45,480 --> 02:33:46,800
Speaker 6: between the two, right?

2752
02:33:46,840 --> 02:33:49,000
Speaker 16: They sent a letter to the Office of the Council

2753
02:33:49,180 --> 02:33:52,180
Speaker 16: for LA County and included a statement, quote, if persons

2754
02:33:52,220 --> 02:33:55,740
Speaker 16: knowingly tabulate ballots cast by individuals identified by federal agencies

2755
02:33:55,800 --> 02:33:59,520
Speaker 16: as non-citizens, they risk becoming aiders and abettors to a

2756
02:33:59,580 --> 02:34:00,500
Speaker 16: federal crime.

2757
02:34:00,940 --> 02:34:01,160
Speaker 10: Yeah.

2758
02:34:01,500 --> 02:34:04,370
Speaker 16: Bill Asseili posted a very similar message to X last

2759
02:34:04,410 --> 02:34:08,430
Speaker 16: week saying, quote, it's simple. California has not verified citizenship status.

2760
02:34:08,840 --> 02:34:11,040
Speaker 16: We did the work for them. We obtained the registered

2761
02:34:11,080 --> 02:34:13,539
Speaker 16: voter list and told them who we believe are non-citizens

2762
02:34:13,600 --> 02:34:17,450
Speaker 16: on their rolls. Knowingly processing non-citizen ballots is a federal

2763
02:34:17,510 --> 02:34:22,750
Speaker 16: crime under 18 U.S.C. Section 611 and 2. We hold

2764
02:34:22,870 --> 02:34:25,610
Speaker 16: election officials accountable. No one is above the law.

2765
02:34:26,129 --> 02:34:29,010
Speaker 10: Yeah, they're trying to scare local officials into taking away

2766
02:34:29,050 --> 02:34:29,730
Speaker 10: people's ballots.

2767
02:34:30,290 --> 02:34:30,650
Speaker 6: Exactly.

2768
02:34:30,690 --> 02:34:33,690
Speaker 16: Yeah, they're trying to scare people out of voting and

2769
02:34:33,709 --> 02:34:36,470
Speaker 16: scare people out of taking votes. This comes after Trump,

2770
02:34:36,550 --> 02:34:39,030
Speaker 16: in June, at a rally, said he asked United States

2771
02:34:39,070 --> 02:34:41,689
Speaker 16: attorneys to, quote, look into the state's voting practice.

2772
02:34:41,870 --> 02:34:44,210
Speaker 6: I called up the very powerful, very good U.S.

2773
02:34:44,270 --> 02:34:47,209
Speaker 1: Attorney in California, and I said, do me a favor,

2774
02:34:47,730 --> 02:34:48,129
Speaker 1: take a look.

2775
02:34:48,150 --> 02:34:50,930
Speaker 6: They're trying to steal that election, too. I guess they

2776
02:34:50,950 --> 02:34:51,410
Speaker 6: called up.

2777
02:34:51,910 --> 02:34:54,050
Speaker 15: Over the next week, he was definitely going to lose,

2778
02:34:54,090 --> 02:34:54,570
Speaker 15: but the U.S.

2779
02:34:54,610 --> 02:34:55,270
Speaker 1: Attorney called.

2780
02:34:55,330 --> 02:34:58,830
Speaker 6: We want to check your votes. About an hour after

2781
02:34:58,890 --> 02:35:03,220
Speaker 6: the call, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Hilton has won.

2782
02:35:04,430 --> 02:35:07,830
Speaker 16: We did trim a little diversion that the president went

2783
02:35:07,930 --> 02:35:11,369
Speaker 16: on in the middle there about the local US attorney

2784
02:35:11,390 --> 02:35:15,130
Speaker 16: being present. So the DOJ has also brought in California

2785
02:35:15,190 --> 02:35:18,750
Speaker 16: charges against 28 foreign nationals who it claims voted or

2786
02:35:18,870 --> 02:35:22,530
Speaker 16: registered to do so. There are various charges here, right?

2787
02:35:22,570 --> 02:35:24,710
Speaker 16: In some cases, they're charging people with lying on the

2788
02:35:24,750 --> 02:35:28,879
Speaker 16: naturalization application, either lying and saying they hadn't previously committed

2789
02:35:28,900 --> 02:35:32,000
Speaker 16: a crime for which they had not been prosecuted or

2790
02:35:32,070 --> 02:35:35,250
Speaker 16: lying and saying that they had not fraudulently claimed to

2791
02:35:35,290 --> 02:35:38,759
Speaker 16: be a US citizen when they had. Not everybody here

2792
02:35:38,959 --> 02:35:42,100
Speaker 16: actually voted. In some cases, they registered to do so.

2793
02:35:42,120 --> 02:35:46,500
Speaker 16: I was kind of just looking demographically at this group. Obviously,

2794
02:35:46,520 --> 02:35:49,150
Speaker 16: it's people who are not born in the US, right?

2795
02:35:49,650 --> 02:35:54,830
Speaker 16: But they tend to be older folks, I noticed. I

2796
02:35:55,110 --> 02:35:57,930
Speaker 16: think the youngest person was 30. It's very easy to

2797
02:35:57,980 --> 02:36:00,080
Speaker 16: register to vote. And I could maybe see how it'd

2798
02:36:00,100 --> 02:36:02,440
Speaker 16: be possible that someone who didn't have English as their

2799
02:36:02,480 --> 02:36:04,740
Speaker 16: first language or the best command of the language could

2800
02:36:04,800 --> 02:36:07,400
Speaker 16: accidentally do that, but I don't know about any of

2801
02:36:07,440 --> 02:36:11,360
Speaker 16: these cases. The DOJ says they're all legal permanent residents,

2802
02:36:11,470 --> 02:36:14,150
Speaker 16: as was the case in Pennsylvania. I want to move

2803
02:36:14,209 --> 02:36:20,790
Speaker 16: on now to another case of misrepresentation of illegal voting practices.

2804
02:36:21,430 --> 02:36:26,860
Speaker 16: This one takes place in Hennepin County and involves serial

2805
02:36:27,480 --> 02:36:32,039
Speaker 16: streamer of his own crimes, james o'keefe uh because he

2806
02:36:32,120 --> 02:36:35,379
Speaker 16: is at it again this shit is wild have any

2807
02:36:35,400 --> 02:36:37,560
Speaker 16: of you seen this video i have not watched the

2808
02:36:37,580 --> 02:36:40,490
Speaker 16: video yet we're gonna go on a fucking journey together

2809
02:36:40,520 --> 02:36:41,730
Speaker 16: friends oh no.

2810
02:36:41,670 --> 02:36:43,130
Speaker 6: But i just want to acknowledge that oh in this

2811
02:36:43,150 --> 02:36:45,490
Speaker 6: case is part of the last name and not a

2812
02:36:45,510 --> 02:36:48,070
Speaker 6: middle initial i know everyone's confused.

2813
02:36:47,629 --> 02:36:50,310
Speaker 16: So yeah yeah well really uh we're mixing up with

2814
02:36:50,330 --> 02:36:52,490
Speaker 16: those yes in this case james o'keefe uh that is

2815
02:36:52,570 --> 02:36:56,490
Speaker 16: that is his last name and his colleague Cam Higby.

2816
02:36:56,870 --> 02:37:02,340
Speaker 16: They misrepresented themselves in Minnesota by entering polling places and

2817
02:37:02,400 --> 02:37:07,890
Speaker 16: representing themselves as registered voters. Quote, James Edward O'Keefe, 42,

2818
02:37:07,879 --> 02:37:11,690
Speaker 16: and Cam Higby, 26, both face felony charges of unlawful

2819
02:37:11,750 --> 02:37:15,369
Speaker 16: voting and identity theft in the primary in Minnesota, according

2820
02:37:15,390 --> 02:37:18,410
Speaker 16: to a Hennepin County Attorney's Office press release that came

2821
02:37:18,430 --> 02:37:19,030
Speaker 16: out this morning.

2822
02:37:19,480 --> 02:37:21,480
Speaker 6: These are like right-wing trolls. Yes.

2823
02:37:21,879 --> 02:37:25,420
Speaker 16: James O'Keefe, probably most famous for his Project Veritas stuff

2824
02:37:25,530 --> 02:37:28,270
Speaker 16: back in the day. I think they kicked him out

2825
02:37:28,290 --> 02:37:30,689
Speaker 16: of Veritas, something to do with The Definer. he's the

2826
02:37:30,720 --> 02:37:33,520
Speaker 16: guy who killed Acorn wait do people even no one

2827
02:37:33,540 --> 02:37:37,190
Speaker 16: remembers Acorn never mind this yeah that's like 15 years

2828
02:37:37,230 --> 02:37:39,110
Speaker 16: ago yeah dawn yeah it's the.

2829
02:37:39,030 --> 02:37:41,290
Speaker 6: Dawn of time yeah um oh i have like separate

2830
02:37:41,310 --> 02:37:43,330
Speaker 6: reasons i'm mad at acorn from 20 years ago but

2831
02:37:43,350 --> 02:37:44,970
Speaker 6: from the opposite direction.

2832
02:37:44,530 --> 02:37:48,350
Speaker 7: Oh yeah very funny it's like they also sucked but

2833
02:37:48,390 --> 02:37:49,750
Speaker 7: he killed acorn.

2834
02:37:49,470 --> 02:37:52,369
Speaker 16: Yeah i'm guessing you have little that you share margaret

2835
02:37:52,910 --> 02:37:55,530
Speaker 16: yeah is it amazing how much shit just goes down

2836
02:37:55,550 --> 02:37:59,490
Speaker 16: in hennepin county So what happened here is that O'Keefe

2837
02:37:59,590 --> 02:38:02,930
Speaker 16: and Higby entered a polling place and they wanted to

2838
02:38:02,970 --> 02:38:08,490
Speaker 16: draw attention to a practice called vouching. Vouching has been

2839
02:38:08,510 --> 02:38:10,440
Speaker 16: established for a long time in Minnesota. It allows a

2840
02:38:10,560 --> 02:38:12,820
Speaker 16: registered voter to vouch to someone who perhaps has recently

2841
02:38:12,900 --> 02:38:14,360
Speaker 16: moved to the area.

2842
02:38:14,660 --> 02:38:17,820
Speaker 6: Right. To say, hey, I'm coming in. I'm a registered voter.

2843
02:38:17,840 --> 02:38:19,320
Speaker 6: You got me on your list. This is my neighbor.

2844
02:38:19,459 --> 02:38:19,980
Speaker 6: They want to vote.

2845
02:38:21,350 --> 02:38:26,060
Speaker 16: O'Keefe obviously thought this offered a wide opportunity for fraud.

2846
02:38:26,560 --> 02:38:29,760
Speaker 6: And so... So he committed fraud?

2847
02:38:30,260 --> 02:38:30,500
Speaker 10: Yes.

2848
02:38:32,400 --> 02:38:34,860
Speaker 16: Not only did he commit fraud, Garrison, he filmed himself

2849
02:38:34,900 --> 02:38:38,080
Speaker 16: doing it. And then he posted to X.com, the Everything website,

2850
02:38:38,100 --> 02:38:40,860
Speaker 16: a video posted to O'Keefe's X account with the opening

2851
02:38:40,940 --> 02:38:44,820
Speaker 16: credits seeming to identify him and the other people as

2852
02:38:44,900 --> 02:38:48,680
Speaker 16: members of the Citizen Justice League. shows him dressed up

2853
02:38:48,760 --> 02:38:52,060
Speaker 16: in what he calls traditional Muslim attire. He's wearing a

2854
02:38:52,180 --> 02:38:55,860
Speaker 16: thobe and higbee in niqab.

2855
02:38:55,970 --> 02:38:56,330
Speaker 1: Fuck.

2856
02:38:56,490 --> 02:38:58,610
Speaker 6: Garrison, if you could just play the first 34 seconds.

2857
02:38:59,030 --> 02:39:01,970
Speaker 6: I've never been more excited to watch a James O'Keefe clip.

2858
02:39:02,110 --> 02:39:03,269
Speaker 6: You're going to see some shit.

2859
02:39:03,850 --> 02:39:04,230
Speaker 1: Fuck.

2860
02:39:05,050 --> 02:39:07,470
Speaker 6: I mean, like, they're not sticking the landing on this.

2861
02:39:07,890 --> 02:39:10,220
Speaker 14: I'm James O'Keefe, and this is vouching for seven other

2862
02:39:10,250 --> 02:39:15,790
Speaker 14: Muslims at a Minneapolis polling booth. We're going in to

2863
02:39:15,810 --> 02:39:18,189
Speaker 14: this location, and I'm going to say that I'm vouching

2864
02:39:18,230 --> 02:39:21,870
Speaker 14: for them. The name is William Lawrence. The question about

2865
02:39:21,890 --> 02:39:23,780
Speaker 14: the vouching program, yeah?

2866
02:39:23,860 --> 02:39:24,220
Speaker 2: Vouching?

2867
02:39:24,840 --> 02:39:27,760
Speaker 6: I can vouch for them, but they are not registered?

2868
02:39:27,800 --> 02:39:28,840
Speaker 6: That's okay, that's fine.

2869
02:39:29,320 --> 02:39:30,300
Speaker 9: Can I bring five more?

2870
02:39:30,320 --> 02:39:30,700
Speaker 10: Up to eight.

2871
02:39:33,250 --> 02:39:34,129
Speaker 9: Up to eight people?

2872
02:39:34,230 --> 02:39:35,869
Speaker 6: Okay, that's a good thing.

2873
02:39:35,910 --> 02:39:41,510
Speaker 14: We go back and we get Krishna and Ernesto and Mohammed.

2874
02:39:41,650 --> 02:39:44,530
Speaker 14: In Minnesota, you can show up on election day and

2875
02:39:44,770 --> 02:39:47,350
Speaker 14: vouch for up to eight unregistered voters.

2876
02:39:48,670 --> 02:39:51,930
Speaker 6: Pretty incredible stuff. Yeah, I mean, you guys can't see this.

2877
02:39:52,270 --> 02:39:56,930
Speaker 16: O'Keefe is wearing a Halloween-tier outfit and affecting an accent.

2878
02:39:57,430 --> 02:39:59,990
Speaker 6: It's like a level of racism that, like....

2879
02:40:02,140 --> 02:40:04,160
Speaker 16: There are several things that I think he might be doing.

2880
02:40:04,180 --> 02:40:08,420
Speaker 16: He's filming in a polling place. I don't know what

2881
02:40:08,459 --> 02:40:13,959
Speaker 16: the rules are on recording consent in Minnesota. Higby in

2882
02:40:14,020 --> 02:40:16,400
Speaker 16: the cub, as you heard there, is the one using

2883
02:40:16,440 --> 02:40:20,560
Speaker 16: the cover name Ernesto. O'Keefe is the one using the

2884
02:40:20,720 --> 02:40:25,440
Speaker 16: affected accent in the video. Can we play 40 to

2885
02:40:25,440 --> 02:40:26,959
Speaker 16: 45 to see what's going on with Ernesto?

2886
02:40:26,980 --> 02:40:31,640
Speaker 6: You guys can probably guess. I'm slightly less excited.

2887
02:40:31,660 --> 02:40:31,760
Speaker 10: Yeah.

2888
02:40:32,570 --> 02:40:35,650
Speaker 6: As I was a few minutes ago. You've made me

2889
02:40:35,670 --> 02:40:36,090
Speaker 6: a cry.

2890
02:40:36,450 --> 02:40:39,560
Speaker 14: Members of the Justice League dress up in traditional Muslim attire,

2891
02:40:39,720 --> 02:40:42,020
Speaker 14: including a transgender wearing a burqa.

2892
02:40:44,459 --> 02:40:45,180
Speaker 6: And put this.

2893
02:40:45,160 --> 02:40:47,520
Speaker 14: Vouching law to an extreme test on.

2894
02:40:47,520 --> 02:40:48,660
Speaker 6: Primary day, August 11th.

2895
02:40:49,580 --> 02:40:49,760
Speaker 7: Yeah.

2896
02:40:50,240 --> 02:40:51,360
Speaker 6: Not a burka, but that's all right.

2897
02:40:52,020 --> 02:40:55,060
Speaker 7: They're also putting on brownface, by the way.

2898
02:40:55,500 --> 02:40:57,500
Speaker 6: Yes, that's what I wanted.

2899
02:40:57,320 --> 02:40:59,590
Speaker 16: To add, Mia, is that they did include footage of

2900
02:40:59,629 --> 02:41:01,170
Speaker 16: them applying brownface.

2901
02:41:01,190 --> 02:41:02,690
Speaker 6: It's a lot to unpack here.

2902
02:41:02,709 --> 02:41:06,490
Speaker 7: They're putting on brownface, and I don't think that's the

2903
02:41:06,530 --> 02:41:11,120
Speaker 7: most racist part of this. This is the spooky week section.

2904
02:41:11,140 --> 02:41:14,120
Speaker 7: This is my fucking night. God, the fact that I

2905
02:41:14,120 --> 02:41:16,570
Speaker 7: have to live in this world is fucking spooky week.

2906
02:41:16,700 --> 02:41:18,730
Speaker 16: Yeah, it is the most American Halloween thing to do

2907
02:41:18,790 --> 02:41:21,570
Speaker 16: to find an incredibly racist costume that is also offensive

2908
02:41:21,610 --> 02:41:22,570
Speaker 16: in myriad other ways.

2909
02:41:22,870 --> 02:41:24,629
Speaker 6: No, we've learned that the most American thing to do

2910
02:41:24,690 --> 02:41:27,230
Speaker 6: is to put on camo and shoot flock cameras. These

2911
02:41:27,270 --> 02:41:28,330
Speaker 6: people are doing it wrong.

2912
02:41:28,590 --> 02:41:28,930
Speaker 17: Oh, yeah.

2913
02:41:29,170 --> 02:41:32,580
Speaker 6: They don't deserve to come to America. These white people

2914
02:41:32,640 --> 02:41:35,280
Speaker 6: who were born here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure, yeah. What

2915
02:41:35,320 --> 02:41:36,359
Speaker 6: a war for this assault.

2916
02:41:37,129 --> 02:41:40,530
Speaker 16: So later in the video, you see that the poll

2917
02:41:40,570 --> 02:41:43,450
Speaker 16: workers have very clearly worked out that something fucking weird

2918
02:41:43,510 --> 02:41:47,190
Speaker 16: is going on because they are outside filming O'Keefe and

2919
02:41:47,230 --> 02:41:50,289
Speaker 16: his crew and following them back to their vehicle. Higby

2920
02:41:50,890 --> 02:41:54,830
Speaker 16: hides in the footwell of the vehicle as they peel

2921
02:41:54,900 --> 02:41:57,119
Speaker 16: out and attempt to do the same thing at another

2922
02:41:57,180 --> 02:42:01,310
Speaker 16: polling location. O'Keefe attempts to construct this as evidence that

2923
02:42:01,370 --> 02:42:05,270
Speaker 16: they know that the vouching system is wrong and not

2924
02:42:05,420 --> 02:42:07,920
Speaker 16: that they know that the group of people in brown

2925
02:42:08,000 --> 02:42:11,880
Speaker 16: face are probably up to some weird shit. I'm quoting

2926
02:42:11,940 --> 02:42:14,940
Speaker 16: again here from the presser. Minnesota law clearly states that

2927
02:42:15,040 --> 02:42:18,280
Speaker 16: no individual shall intentionally mispresent the individual's identity in applying

2928
02:42:18,300 --> 02:42:20,310
Speaker 16: for a ballot, depositing a ballot in a ballot box,

2929
02:42:20,420 --> 02:42:22,869
Speaker 16: or attempting to vote by means of a voting machine

2930
02:42:22,890 --> 02:42:24,050
Speaker 16: or electronic voting system.

2931
02:42:24,709 --> 02:42:27,590
Speaker 6: Well, Mr. Higby and Mr. O'Keefe did not sign the oath.

2932
02:42:28,110 --> 02:42:32,109
Speaker 16: Most men intentionally misrepresented their identities in applying for ballots,

2933
02:42:32,150 --> 02:42:36,230
Speaker 16: a press release said. The person O'Keefe impersonated only found

2934
02:42:36,350 --> 02:42:39,550
Speaker 16: out once the video was released. He was posing as

2935
02:42:39,590 --> 02:42:42,410
Speaker 16: a real person. Yes, that is a person. That is

2936
02:42:42,450 --> 02:42:44,530
Speaker 16: a registered voter in that precinct.

2937
02:42:44,650 --> 02:42:48,240
Speaker 6: Oh my God. This is a federal crime. William Pomeranz

2938
02:42:48,640 --> 02:42:49,400
Speaker 6: is a guy.

2939
02:42:49,420 --> 02:42:49,830
Speaker 7: Holy.

2940
02:42:50,879 --> 02:42:54,879
Speaker 6: Jesus Christ. That's wild. I didn't know they actually did it.

2941
02:42:54,920 --> 02:42:56,779
Speaker 6: They actually stole someone's identity.

2942
02:42:57,440 --> 02:42:58,090
Speaker 7: Holy shit!

2943
02:42:58,350 --> 02:43:02,610
Speaker 6: What's funny, and it didn't work. The poll people were like, no,

2944
02:43:02,650 --> 02:43:03,709
Speaker 6: you're fraudsters.

2945
02:43:03,850 --> 02:43:06,230
Speaker 16: Well, they didn't say that because O'Keefe never actually did

2946
02:43:06,270 --> 02:43:10,340
Speaker 16: the thing. He never actually signed the oath, right? You

2947
02:43:10,580 --> 02:43:15,619
Speaker 16: attest that these people are residents, right? Just as one

2948
02:43:15,660 --> 02:43:17,500
Speaker 16: might enter into any other contract. This is a fairly

2949
02:43:17,540 --> 02:43:19,260
Speaker 16: well-established thing that happens in law.

2950
02:43:19,300 --> 02:43:20,990
Speaker 6: You can attest to things, right?

2951
02:43:21,590 --> 02:43:23,750
Speaker 16: So in this case, I'm guessing he thought he wasn't

2952
02:43:23,800 --> 02:43:26,359
Speaker 16: stealing the identity because he didn't sign the contract. But

2953
02:43:27,220 --> 02:43:28,980
Speaker 16: Pomeranz found this when it was sent to him by

2954
02:43:29,020 --> 02:43:29,760
Speaker 16: one of his students.

2955
02:43:30,000 --> 02:43:33,039
Speaker 6: Jesus. Can we just play like.

2956
02:43:32,720 --> 02:43:36,850
Speaker 16: 859 to 905 when the poll workers work out what's

2957
02:43:36,890 --> 02:43:37,530
Speaker 16: going on here?

2958
02:43:37,830 --> 02:43:37,990
Speaker 10: Yeah.

2959
02:43:38,930 --> 02:43:40,950
Speaker 8: That's the biggest scam, I think, is that you can,

2960
02:43:41,070 --> 02:43:42,770
Speaker 8: as long as you know their name and their address,

2961
02:43:43,190 --> 02:43:44,550
Speaker 8: you can show up and vote in their name, no

2962
02:43:44,590 --> 02:43:45,510
Speaker 8: verification required.

2963
02:43:45,590 --> 02:43:47,310
Speaker 6: It looks like we may have problems.

2964
02:43:47,330 --> 02:43:48,060
Speaker 7: We can't prove it.

2965
02:43:50,160 --> 02:43:51,740
Speaker 6: You want me to ask? Should I get up now?

2966
02:43:51,780 --> 02:43:54,530
Speaker 6: What we could do is just reposition. He's going to

2967
02:43:54,550 --> 02:43:56,850
Speaker 6: go alert somebody. Does he work there?

2968
02:43:57,870 --> 02:44:00,790
Speaker 5: I sure told him shit about us.

2969
02:44:00,890 --> 02:44:04,020
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, they're recording.

2970
02:44:04,040 --> 02:44:05,140
Speaker 6: Get down, get down, get.

2971
02:44:05,000 --> 02:44:05,960
Speaker 14: Down, get down, get down.

2972
02:44:11,940 --> 02:44:15,039
Speaker 6: Holy larp oh my god yeah i can't let them.

2973
02:44:14,940 --> 02:44:17,280
Speaker 16: Get close i love that at the moment he's saying

2974
02:44:17,320 --> 02:44:20,340
Speaker 16: you could vote without having an id but several poll

2975
02:44:20,379 --> 02:44:22,660
Speaker 16: workers have already followed him to his vehicle.

2976
02:44:23,540 --> 02:44:26,230
Speaker 6: And also just like the the just the hypocrisy if

2977
02:44:26,290 --> 02:44:27,709
Speaker 6: i can film them and they can't film.

2978
02:44:27,550 --> 02:44:30,630
Speaker 16: Me yeah yeah the whole thing they're filming us get

2979
02:44:30,670 --> 02:44:34,170
Speaker 16: down i don't expect better from them you're.

2980
02:44:33,690 --> 02:44:36,190
Speaker 7: You're you're posting it on twitter.

2981
02:44:36,270 --> 02:44:40,830
Speaker 16: Yeah what are you James O'Keefe, serious journalist, never thought

2982
02:44:40,850 --> 02:44:42,590
Speaker 16: to ask a lawyer, what if I do a number

2983
02:44:42,629 --> 02:44:45,109
Speaker 16: of federal crimes and then video them?

2984
02:44:45,690 --> 02:44:48,640
Speaker 6: The world is just that Simpsons meme of like filming

2985
02:44:48,660 --> 02:44:50,660
Speaker 6: this crime spree is the best idea we've ever had.

2986
02:44:50,959 --> 02:44:52,500
Speaker 6: Videotaping this crime spree.

2987
02:44:52,520 --> 02:44:52,780
Speaker 14: Yeah.

2988
02:44:53,100 --> 02:44:53,360
Speaker 7: Yeah.

2989
02:44:54,820 --> 02:44:59,209
Speaker 16: So amazingly, O'Keefe's most recent tweet reads, siren emoji, calling

2990
02:44:59,290 --> 02:45:02,330
Speaker 16: all election judges, county clerks, poll workers and watchers. Are

2991
02:45:02,350 --> 02:45:04,930
Speaker 16: you serving in the upcoming election? We want to connect

2992
02:45:04,970 --> 02:45:07,050
Speaker 16: with you to help ensure transparency and integrity in the

2993
02:45:07,070 --> 02:45:10,430
Speaker 16: electoral process. Send us a DM with your name, contact info,

2994
02:45:10,470 --> 02:45:12,770
Speaker 16: and the best time to reach you. He then links

2995
02:45:12,800 --> 02:45:15,699
Speaker 16: to the video in which his alleged crimes are recorded.

2996
02:45:17,780 --> 02:45:18,260
Speaker 6: Great stuff.

2997
02:45:18,660 --> 02:45:21,040
Speaker 10: Well, I'm glad that we were able to catch at

2998
02:45:21,180 --> 02:45:22,840
Speaker 10: least someone doing voter fraud.

2999
02:45:23,379 --> 02:45:27,060
Speaker 6: Right, yeah. The big problem is former Project Veritas people

3000
02:45:27,100 --> 02:45:28,580
Speaker 6: in this country undermining democracy.

3001
02:45:29,260 --> 02:45:29,800
Speaker 1: Oh, boy.

3002
02:45:30,879 --> 02:45:34,120
Speaker 10: Excited to see how this court case plays out. So

3003
02:45:34,660 --> 02:45:38,480
Speaker 10: I'm going to do an actual, I think, authentic, classic

3004
02:45:38,560 --> 02:45:43,780
Speaker 10: Spooky Week style segment and talk about doppelgangers. Rather than

3005
02:45:44,100 --> 02:45:47,879
Speaker 10: ghosts or goblins, zombies, werewolves, or vampires, the only spooky

3006
02:45:48,220 --> 02:45:50,939
Speaker 10: creature of sorts that I've ever been kind of scared of,

3007
02:45:51,160 --> 02:45:55,810
Speaker 10: felt like the heebie-jeebies about, is the doppelganger. The idea

3008
02:45:55,860 --> 02:46:00,920
Speaker 10: that you suddenly happen to encounter an apparent double of yourself,

3009
02:46:01,200 --> 02:46:03,560
Speaker 10: whether just like a glimpse for a short second or

3010
02:46:03,620 --> 02:46:07,000
Speaker 10: maybe an extended encounter with someone or something that looks

3011
02:46:07,080 --> 02:46:10,300
Speaker 10: exactly like you. And I'm not talking about like lookalikes here.

3012
02:46:10,320 --> 02:46:12,779
Speaker 10: I'm not talking about someone who just kind of resembles you.

3013
02:46:12,860 --> 02:46:14,210
Speaker 10: I mean, like you wake up in the middle of

3014
02:46:14,230 --> 02:46:16,650
Speaker 10: the night to use the bathroom and as you walk

3015
02:46:16,690 --> 02:46:21,230
Speaker 10: down the hallway, you see another version of you standing there.

3016
02:46:21,690 --> 02:46:25,430
Speaker 10: Or you're like cutting through like a crowded sidewalk and

3017
02:46:25,590 --> 02:46:29,070
Speaker 10: you notice... as you kind of pass by someone, you

3018
02:46:29,250 --> 02:46:32,010
Speaker 10: turn back because they look just like you, but then

3019
02:46:32,190 --> 02:46:34,519
Speaker 10: they're lost in the chaos.

3020
02:46:34,100 --> 02:46:35,220
Speaker 6: Of random passersby.

3021
02:46:35,240 --> 02:46:39,780
Speaker 10: That's the sort of doppelganger I'm talking about. So-called scientists

3022
02:46:40,080 --> 02:46:43,379
Speaker 10: say the odds of someone having the exact same facial

3023
02:46:43,420 --> 02:46:46,760
Speaker 10: proportions on a scale of eight features is like 0.11%.

3024
02:46:46,760 --> 02:46:52,350
Speaker 10: Not very likely that you experience someone with the exact

3025
02:46:52,390 --> 02:46:55,050
Speaker 10: same features as you, but Again, I'm talking about more

3026
02:46:55,070 --> 02:46:58,310
Speaker 10: of like a high strangeness type of situation here. So

3027
02:46:58,350 --> 02:47:02,570
Speaker 10: although this scientifically not likely to happen in the meat

3028
02:47:02,610 --> 02:47:08,310
Speaker 10: space flesh world, online digital doppelgangers are now quite plentiful.

3029
02:47:08,750 --> 02:47:12,209
Speaker 10: According to a report from the Wesleyan Media Project, which

3030
02:47:12,310 --> 02:47:16,410
Speaker 10: tracks data on political ads, they identified at least 220

3031
02:47:16,410 --> 02:47:22,500
Speaker 10: political ads from the 2023 election cycle that were generated

3032
02:47:22,540 --> 02:47:26,640
Speaker 10: at least in part using AI. And of these 220 ads,

3033
02:47:26,700 --> 02:47:32,240
Speaker 10: about half contained AI deepfakes of real politicians. And this

3034
02:47:32,400 --> 02:47:40,330
Speaker 10: is a growing industry. Just this year, more than $ 137

3035
02:47:38,360 --> 02:47:43,380
Speaker 10: million has been spent on AI political ads, compared to

3036
02:47:43,520 --> 02:47:49,680
Speaker 10: less than $ 50, 000 in 2024. And that $ 137 million figure

3037
02:47:49,810 --> 02:47:53,609
Speaker 10: is quote, almost certainly in undercount, given that it is

3038
02:47:53,670 --> 02:47:58,310
Speaker 10: difficult to detect uses of AI, per Wesleyan Media Project.

3039
02:47:58,970 --> 02:48:03,400
Speaker 10: This report found that 81% of AI-generated ads were sponsored

3040
02:48:03,440 --> 02:48:06,959
Speaker 10: by Republican candidates or groups, while only 12% of the

3041
02:48:07,040 --> 02:48:10,680
Speaker 10: ads were sponsored by Democrats. And a lot of the

3042
02:48:11,020 --> 02:48:15,500
Speaker 10: groups or candidates using these ads might not have a

3043
02:48:15,780 --> 02:48:18,390
Speaker 10: lot of funding, right? A lot of smaller campaigns may

3044
02:48:18,420 --> 02:48:20,769
Speaker 10: turn to AI when they are tight on cash, because

3045
02:48:21,330 --> 02:48:25,450
Speaker 10: what could have costed millions to produce now costs essentially nothing.

3046
02:48:25,970 --> 02:48:27,650
Speaker 10: which is not to say that candidates with big budgets

3047
02:48:27,770 --> 02:48:28,970
Speaker 10: don't also use AI.

3048
02:48:29,230 --> 02:48:29,789
Speaker 6: They do.

3049
02:48:30,610 --> 02:48:32,330
Speaker 10: But this is part of why you saw so many

3050
02:48:32,370 --> 02:48:35,780
Speaker 10: like AI ads during like primary house races, because a

3051
02:48:35,800 --> 02:48:38,720
Speaker 10: lot of those candidates might not have as much money

3052
02:48:38,860 --> 02:48:41,980
Speaker 10: as the big name Senate races. Now, these AI ads

3053
02:48:42,000 --> 02:48:45,040
Speaker 10: have shown up all across the country, at least in

3054
02:48:45,040 --> 02:48:49,340
Speaker 10: 34 different states, with most being found in Oklahoma and Texas.

3055
02:48:50,020 --> 02:48:54,520
Speaker 10: And just 27% of these ads contain a disclaimer saying,

3056
02:48:55,040 --> 02:48:59,590
Speaker 10: that the ad featured AI-generated content. Let's go through some

3057
02:48:59,690 --> 02:49:04,190
Speaker 10: examples because since kind of this spring, I have been

3058
02:49:04,250 --> 02:49:07,330
Speaker 10: saving AI ads that I come across in the wild

3059
02:49:07,690 --> 02:49:09,510
Speaker 10: because I think they are fascinating.

3060
02:49:09,530 --> 02:49:11,509
Speaker 6: I don't like the future. I'm just going to go

3061
02:49:11,530 --> 02:49:14,680
Speaker 6: ahead and say it. I'm so excited to count fingers.

3062
02:49:15,220 --> 02:49:18,519
Speaker 10: A June ad paid for by Michigan State Senator Eric

3063
02:49:18,740 --> 02:49:24,020
Speaker 10: Nesbitt stars a deep-faked Michigan Secretary of State, Jocelyn Benson.

3064
02:49:24,580 --> 02:49:26,380
Speaker 10: colluding with an AI version of who I think is

3065
02:49:26,420 --> 02:49:29,420
Speaker 10: supposed to be New York Governor Kathy Hochul as they

3066
02:49:29,860 --> 02:49:32,940
Speaker 10: conspire to register illegal aliens to vote.

3067
02:49:34,420 --> 02:49:38,410
Speaker 6: The numbers are a disaster! We don't have enough illegals!

3068
02:49:38,650 --> 02:49:39,150
Speaker 6: Don't panic.

3069
02:49:39,580 --> 02:49:40,490
Speaker 7: I know someone who can help.

3070
02:49:40,510 --> 02:49:46,650
Speaker 6: Hey, what's up, Gretch? Don't worry, we got Michigan covered. Oh,

3071
02:49:46,709 --> 02:49:50,029
Speaker 6: don't forget to register to vote. Free bus rides for illegals!

3072
02:49:50,150 --> 02:49:52,990
Speaker 7: And you'll be sorry that you messed with.

3073
02:50:01,340 --> 02:50:03,680
Speaker 6: So that's the general vibe of stuff we're dealing with.

3074
02:50:03,900 --> 02:50:06,920
Speaker 6: Where we live in a satire. God damn.

3075
02:50:07,240 --> 02:50:11,199
Speaker 10: If that feels kind of like confused or chaotic, that's

3076
02:50:11,220 --> 02:50:13,920
Speaker 10: because it is. And that goes on for a whole

3077
02:50:14,020 --> 02:50:17,990
Speaker 10: other minute. That's less than one third of this ad.

3078
02:50:18,860 --> 02:50:21,349
Speaker 6: I'm invested. I need to know how he saves America.

3079
02:50:21,550 --> 02:50:22,550
Speaker 6: It's pretty cool.

3080
02:50:23,560 --> 02:50:26,620
Speaker 10: The GOP State Senator Eric Nesbitt then drives a tractor

3081
02:50:26,640 --> 02:50:29,879
Speaker 10: to intercept this caravan of quote-unquote illegals on their way

3082
02:50:29,900 --> 02:50:30,320
Speaker 10: to vote.

3083
02:50:30,480 --> 02:50:32,740
Speaker 6: Then ICE pulls up with guns drawn. Oh, cool.

3084
02:50:32,980 --> 02:50:34,700
Speaker 10: And then at the end of the ad, the Statue

3085
02:50:34,730 --> 02:50:38,949
Speaker 10: of Liberty comes alive and grabs Zoran Mamdani and Abdul Al-Said.

3086
02:50:39,670 --> 02:50:43,750
Speaker 10: Some interesting notes here. When Zoran starts talking, completely different

3087
02:50:43,790 --> 02:50:46,250
Speaker 10: voice than he talks in the rest of the ad. Yeah.

3088
02:50:47,430 --> 02:50:51,730
Speaker 6: Also, AI Zoran calls the blonde woman Gretch. Gretch and

3089
02:50:51,770 --> 02:50:54,500
Speaker 6: Whitmer they're going for? Yeah.

3090
02:50:54,700 --> 02:50:58,180
Speaker 10: As in Gretchen Whitmer, even though the text accompanying this

3091
02:50:58,330 --> 02:51:01,709
Speaker 10: ad and per the visuals, she's supposed to be Secretary Benson,

3092
02:51:01,930 --> 02:51:02,990
Speaker 10: not Gretchen Whitmer.

3093
02:51:03,590 --> 02:51:05,410
Speaker 6: So a little confusing.

3094
02:51:05,430 --> 02:51:06,610
Speaker 7: Great stuff happening here.

3095
02:51:06,709 --> 02:51:08,090
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's definitely my problem with it.

3096
02:51:08,110 --> 02:51:12,030
Speaker 16: It does scream the kind of attention to detail you

3097
02:51:12,070 --> 02:51:14,900
Speaker 16: want in someone who gets to decide what the law is.

3098
02:51:15,610 --> 02:51:17,510
Speaker 13: Michigan law requires me to tell you that this video

3099
02:51:17,560 --> 02:51:21,040
Speaker 13: was generated completely by artificial intelligence. It has been manipulated

3100
02:51:21,080 --> 02:51:23,340
Speaker 13: by technical means and depicts speech and conduct that did

3101
02:51:23,360 --> 02:51:23,760
Speaker 13: not occur.

3102
02:51:24,240 --> 02:51:26,440
Speaker 10: But that's, yeah, that's the general kind of vibe that

3103
02:51:26,480 --> 02:51:27,460
Speaker 10: we're going to be dealing with.

3104
02:51:27,720 --> 02:51:30,310
Speaker 16: For people confused, that was supposed to be a bald eagle,

3105
02:51:30,360 --> 02:51:32,470
Speaker 16: even though that's not what a bald eagle sounds like.

3106
02:51:33,010 --> 02:51:35,790
Speaker 6: Thank you for that clarification. I almost was going to

3107
02:51:35,830 --> 02:51:38,850
Speaker 6: make that particular note that all of the sounds we

3108
02:51:38,890 --> 02:51:41,789
Speaker 6: have for bald eagles are not bald eagle sounds, but yeah.

3109
02:51:41,970 --> 02:51:44,140
Speaker 16: I'm glad that the AI continued in the great American

3110
02:51:44,160 --> 02:51:45,220
Speaker 16: tradition of getting that wrong.

3111
02:51:45,500 --> 02:51:50,000
Speaker 10: Yeah. Also in June, a Trump-aligned organization, Citizens for Sanity,

3112
02:51:50,440 --> 02:51:54,379
Speaker 10: spent six figures on a 15-second ad of Tallarico in

3113
02:51:54,400 --> 02:51:58,850
Speaker 10: a maid dress singing a quote-unquote trans kids version of

3114
02:51:59,070 --> 02:52:00,450
Speaker 10: A Few of My Favorite Things.

3115
02:52:00,470 --> 02:52:05,110
Speaker 6: I feel like I'm being hate-crimed by being on this show. Yeah, sorry, Margaret,

3116
02:52:05,129 --> 02:52:06,650
Speaker 6: you've come on a rough one. No, no, it's all right.

3117
02:52:06,970 --> 02:52:10,629
Speaker 6: Changing the gender of all your offspring. This is, wow.

3118
02:52:10,690 --> 02:52:14,490
Speaker 6: These are a few of my favorite things.

3119
02:52:15,600 --> 02:52:17,600
Speaker 10: So this does not have a disclaimer that it's AI,

3120
02:52:17,660 --> 02:52:20,750
Speaker 10: even though it's maybe not impossible to tell by looking

3121
02:52:20,810 --> 02:52:21,020
Speaker 10: at it.

3122
02:52:21,030 --> 02:52:23,070
Speaker 6: Yeah, the apron dress doesn't have strings.

3123
02:52:24,010 --> 02:52:25,630
Speaker 10: This is kind of one of the more lo-fi ads

3124
02:52:25,709 --> 02:52:28,310
Speaker 10: compared to what we will see in the next few months.

3125
02:52:28,850 --> 02:52:33,289
Speaker 10: Because in September, Ken Paxton released his own AI-generated ad

3126
02:52:33,370 --> 02:52:36,990
Speaker 10: depicting a deep-faked James Tallarico sitting at a home desk

3127
02:52:37,070 --> 02:52:42,260
Speaker 10: reading paraphrased and abridged quotes from Tallarico from years past

3128
02:52:42,920 --> 02:52:46,770
Speaker 10: that are all stitched together. with things he hasn't said.

3129
02:52:47,750 --> 02:52:50,590
Speaker 10: Some of these quote-unquote quotes are being scribbled into a

3130
02:52:51,150 --> 02:52:54,920
Speaker 10: King James Tallarico Bible. I'll play this clip here, and

3131
02:52:55,220 --> 02:52:57,180
Speaker 10: I know this is, you know, visual content, and I

3132
02:52:57,180 --> 02:53:00,359
Speaker 10: will link the list of these ads below at the

3133
02:53:00,400 --> 02:53:04,140
Speaker 10: top of the description if you... Want to, for some reason,

3134
02:53:04,160 --> 02:53:05,540
Speaker 10: watch them all yourself.

3135
02:53:05,980 --> 02:53:07,040
Speaker 6: If you too.

3136
02:53:06,840 --> 02:53:10,220
Speaker 7: Want to annihilate your brain cells and like feel your

3137
02:53:10,340 --> 02:53:13,800
Speaker 7: soul physically drain from your body, which is the experience

3138
02:53:13,840 --> 02:53:15,020
Speaker 7: of watching this.

3139
02:53:17,750 --> 02:53:21,150
Speaker 13: In the beginning, God was non-binary and he wasn't a Christian.

3140
02:53:21,670 --> 02:53:24,610
Speaker 13: And God said, let there be six genders. And there were.

3141
02:53:25,570 --> 02:53:27,629
Speaker 6: Then God so loved the world that he.

3142
02:53:27,590 --> 02:53:30,590
Speaker 13: Gave us his only son, who was a radical feminist

3143
02:53:30,709 --> 02:53:32,250
Speaker 13: and never asked people to worship him.

3144
02:53:32,900 --> 02:53:35,080
Speaker 6: Look, I always think of myself as a Christian who

3145
02:53:35,140 --> 02:53:36,000
Speaker 6: hates Christianity.

3146
02:53:36,990 --> 02:53:41,530
Speaker 1: James Tallarico. Wrong for Texas. America is not a Christian nation.

3147
02:53:41,629 --> 02:53:43,170
Speaker 1: And wrong for America too.

3148
02:53:43,890 --> 02:53:45,640
Speaker 6: I'm Ken Paxton and I approve this message.

3149
02:53:47,070 --> 02:53:48,710
Speaker 10: A lot of the things Tyler Rico is saying there

3150
02:53:48,830 --> 02:53:52,730
Speaker 10: are things that are just, like, biblically accurate and, like, true.

3151
02:53:53,250 --> 02:53:57,390
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's Elaine Pagel's whole shit. Like, God's not a Christian.

3152
02:53:58,110 --> 02:53:58,370
Speaker 14: What?

3153
02:53:58,550 --> 02:53:59,029
Speaker 7: I know, right?

3154
02:53:59,050 --> 02:54:02,050
Speaker 10: There's a lot of stuff that's just, like, accurate and, like, true,

3155
02:54:02,310 --> 02:54:04,110
Speaker 10: but that's besides the point. With the way that they're

3156
02:54:04,140 --> 02:54:07,140
Speaker 10: stitching all these things together into sentences he didn't say,

3157
02:54:07,160 --> 02:54:11,100
Speaker 10: and then having his likeness say them, this is bad

3158
02:54:11,120 --> 02:54:14,500
Speaker 10: for democracy, right? This is not a good thing to do.

3159
02:54:15,180 --> 02:54:19,180
Speaker 10: And this ad in particular... is pretty photo-real, at least

3160
02:54:19,300 --> 02:54:21,760
Speaker 10: compared to some of the others highlighted in this episode.

3161
02:54:22,280 --> 02:54:26,320
Speaker 6: It's funny that riots are illegal. Like, this is more

3162
02:54:26,379 --> 02:54:32,209
Speaker 6: destructive to our society than fire is. I'm just gonna... Anyway, uh-huh.

3163
02:54:33,129 --> 02:54:36,670
Speaker 10: Yeah. And there's teeny, teeny, tiny text at the very

3164
02:54:36,830 --> 02:54:39,990
Speaker 10: end of the video that reads, certain video content depicted

3165
02:54:40,070 --> 02:54:44,930
Speaker 10: in this advertising was generated by artificial intelligence. Certain video content? Yeah,

3166
02:54:44,950 --> 02:54:45,199
Speaker 10: a little bit.

3167
02:54:45,209 --> 02:54:45,950
Speaker 6: The whole video, dog.

3168
02:54:45,990 --> 02:54:46,170
Speaker 10: Yeah.

3169
02:54:47,959 --> 02:54:49,640
Speaker 6: Now, following the.

3170
02:54:49,860 --> 02:54:53,770
Speaker 10: Lead of Iran state propaganda, a few candidates like Doug

3171
02:54:53,810 --> 02:54:58,269
Speaker 10: Bassler in Seattle have AI generated Lego style animations, as

3172
02:54:58,330 --> 02:55:01,830
Speaker 10: well as political ads like riffing on adult animated sitcoms.

3173
02:55:02,270 --> 02:55:04,170
Speaker 10: And we couldn't sit and laugh at how bad these are,

3174
02:55:04,190 --> 02:55:06,230
Speaker 10: but because they are not deep fakes, I'm going to

3175
02:55:06,270 --> 02:55:09,010
Speaker 10: skip them. But I will link to examples below. Again,

3176
02:55:09,070 --> 02:55:11,820
Speaker 10: if you want to check these out yourself. Before the

3177
02:55:11,860 --> 02:55:15,420
Speaker 10: Florida primary this summer, a Ted Cruz-linked super PAC called

3178
02:55:15,570 --> 02:55:19,369
Speaker 10: Frontline Action paid top dollar to broadcast AA ads targeting

3179
02:55:19,750 --> 02:55:25,030
Speaker 10: Florida Republican gubernatorial candidate James Fishback during the World Cup.

3180
02:55:25,990 --> 02:55:28,890
Speaker 10: One of these ads has groups of people showing up

3181
02:55:28,930 --> 02:55:33,930
Speaker 10: to Fishback's house for an anti-Israel party, including who is

3182
02:55:34,270 --> 02:55:38,700
Speaker 10: supposed to resemble Nick Fuentes, Candace Owens, and Tucker Carlson, AOC,

3183
02:55:38,800 --> 02:55:44,680
Speaker 10: Rashida Tlaib, Ilhan Omar... Columbia campus protesters, Hassan Piker, and

3184
02:55:44,840 --> 02:55:46,019
Speaker 10: Code Pink activists.

3185
02:55:46,340 --> 02:55:46,750
Speaker 1: Hell yeah.

3186
02:55:46,810 --> 02:55:49,910
Speaker 10: As well as Vladimir Putin and finally some like Iranian

3187
02:55:49,970 --> 02:55:54,110
Speaker 10: state officials who then slash an Israel party cake with

3188
02:55:54,190 --> 02:55:58,290
Speaker 10: a sword. The ad says, is this really what you

3189
02:55:58,330 --> 02:56:00,670
Speaker 10: want your Republican party to look like?

3190
02:56:00,990 --> 02:56:03,810
Speaker 6: So it's like a pun with the word party. Because

3191
02:56:03,830 --> 02:56:06,789
Speaker 6: some of those people are right wing people. I know

3192
02:56:07,070 --> 02:56:09,090
Speaker 6: I live under a rock, but that's a list of

3193
02:56:09,110 --> 02:56:12,000
Speaker 6: people that's. Right-wing people that they're now trashing.

3194
02:56:12,160 --> 02:56:12,400
Speaker 7: Okay.

3195
02:56:12,440 --> 02:56:13,680
Speaker 6: Some of.

3196
02:56:13,700 --> 02:56:16,279
Speaker 10: Well, yeah, I mean, Ted Cruz has had, like, an

3197
02:56:16,340 --> 02:56:20,350
Speaker 10: extended beef with Tucker, Candace, and, by extension, Nick Fuentes

3198
02:56:20,370 --> 02:56:21,250
Speaker 10: for the past few years.

3199
02:56:22,110 --> 02:56:24,170
Speaker 6: Over Israel? Over Israel, yes.

3200
02:56:24,470 --> 02:56:24,730
Speaker 11: Okay.

3201
02:56:25,730 --> 02:56:28,369
Speaker 10: And, like, as weird as this ad is, it's not

3202
02:56:28,450 --> 02:56:32,850
Speaker 10: nearly as weird as the other anti-fishback ad made by

3203
02:56:32,870 --> 02:56:37,250
Speaker 10: this Ted Cruz-linked super PAC depicting two fishermen who catch a,

3204
02:56:37,650 --> 02:56:39,949
Speaker 10: what I'll call a talking fishback fish.

3205
02:56:40,530 --> 02:56:40,730
Speaker 4: What?

3206
02:56:41,110 --> 02:56:46,150
Speaker 6: God damn it. Big mouth. White genocide is real.

3207
02:56:46,470 --> 02:56:46,849
Speaker 10: Oh, God.

3208
02:56:46,930 --> 02:56:48,840
Speaker 6: And I'm running for governor to stop it.

3209
02:56:49,580 --> 02:56:51,879
Speaker 7: On my first day, we will suspend the enforcement of

3210
02:56:51,900 --> 02:56:54,140
Speaker 7: the unconstitutional antisemitism law.

3211
02:56:54,640 --> 02:56:56,060
Speaker 11: You want to throw this fish back?

3212
02:56:56,980 --> 02:56:58,220
Speaker 15: We can't throw this fish back.

3213
02:56:58,260 --> 02:56:59,260
Speaker 8: He'll ruin the other fish.

3214
02:57:00,220 --> 02:57:03,090
Speaker 18: If we don't throw this fish back, what do we do?

3215
02:57:03,129 --> 02:57:05,230
Speaker 1: Election Day keep James Fishback out of office.

3216
02:57:05,650 --> 02:57:07,850
Speaker 8: The Frontline Action is responsible for the content of this advertising.

3217
02:57:09,650 --> 02:57:09,970
Speaker 8: If you want.

3218
02:57:10,160 --> 02:57:12,340
Speaker 10: any of these, you've got to look through the show

3219
02:57:12,379 --> 02:57:13,760
Speaker 10: notes to find this one.

3220
02:57:14,650 --> 02:57:16,890
Speaker 6: I'm going to see this in my nightmare. This has

3221
02:57:16,990 --> 02:57:20,490
Speaker 6: so many layers of, I don't even know who's criticizing.

3222
02:57:20,570 --> 02:57:21,640
Speaker 6: What about what?

3223
02:57:21,660 --> 02:57:24,520
Speaker 10: I mean, this is, this is the pro Israel part

3224
02:57:24,560 --> 02:57:28,980
Speaker 10: of the Republican party fighting back against the griper anti-Israel

3225
02:57:29,060 --> 02:57:30,820
Speaker 10: part of the Republican party, which.

3226
02:57:30,800 --> 02:57:34,129
Speaker 6: Fishback was kind of the main representative of. Okay. Thank you.

3227
02:57:34,750 --> 02:57:37,680
Speaker 10: And like, Frontline Action seems to specialize in like the

3228
02:57:37,820 --> 02:57:41,060
Speaker 10: sloppiest of AI slop ads, right? Like this stuff looks

3229
02:57:41,100 --> 02:57:46,470
Speaker 10: almost indistinguishable from those like creepy vegetable fruit, like cuckoldry

3230
02:57:47,080 --> 02:57:49,090
Speaker 10: videos that you may have seen if you like ever

3231
02:57:49,150 --> 02:57:51,830
Speaker 10: scroll Instagram. Those were popular a few months ago.

3232
02:57:52,310 --> 02:57:53,090
Speaker 6: I've missed those.

3233
02:57:53,110 --> 02:57:56,050
Speaker 10: The visuals of these is kind of of a similar quality.

3234
02:57:56,070 --> 02:58:00,690
Speaker 10: And in September, they released an ad targeting Abdul El-Said

3235
02:58:00,990 --> 02:58:05,230
Speaker 10: titled Family Values. showing Abdul, his sister, and Hassan Piker

3236
02:58:05,430 --> 02:58:09,640
Speaker 10: in his mouse suit and a keffiyeh playing a, quote,

3237
02:58:09,820 --> 02:58:14,520
Speaker 10: death to America board game about destroying, quote, the West.

3238
02:58:15,100 --> 02:58:16,560
Speaker 6: I fucking wish.

3239
02:58:16,580 --> 02:58:19,580
Speaker 13: The destruction of Israel and the West isn't just a

3240
02:58:19,620 --> 02:58:20,180
Speaker 13: game for them.

3241
02:58:20,400 --> 02:58:21,019
Speaker 6: It's a mission.

3242
02:58:21,260 --> 02:58:23,689
Speaker 1: His sister hates everything about America.

3243
02:58:23,790 --> 02:58:26,459
Speaker 2: His pal Hassan Piker thinks America deserved 9-11.

3244
02:58:27,330 --> 02:58:29,990
Speaker 1: And his father-in-law founded a charity.

3245
02:58:29,530 --> 02:58:31,230
Speaker 6: Tied to the Muslim Brotherhood.

3246
02:58:31,410 --> 02:58:33,029
Speaker 14: El-Said isn't playing games.

3247
02:58:33,400 --> 02:58:37,359
Speaker 6: And his family members are wrong from Michigan. I'm starting

3248
02:58:37,400 --> 02:58:41,200
Speaker 6: to think that the Republicans are racist. It does look

3249
02:58:41,240 --> 02:58:41,600
Speaker 6: that way.

3250
02:58:41,620 --> 02:58:45,980
Speaker 10: Yeah, so this last image is a framed family portrait

3251
02:58:46,020 --> 02:58:49,140
Speaker 10: with Abdul, four women in the cobs, and again, Hasan Piker,

3252
02:58:49,640 --> 02:58:52,599
Speaker 10: whom Abdul is not related to. He's not part of

3253
02:58:52,620 --> 02:58:58,250
Speaker 10: Abdul's family. But no, this is the most post-9-11 style

3254
02:58:58,890 --> 02:58:59,910
Speaker 10: anti-Arab racism.

3255
02:59:00,530 --> 02:59:05,010
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's 2001 gutter racism. The unfiltered shit you used

3256
02:59:05,050 --> 02:59:06,690
Speaker 7: to get with people talking about nuking Iraq.

3257
02:59:06,930 --> 02:59:08,050
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great.

3258
02:59:08,850 --> 02:59:09,110
Speaker 6: Yeah.

3259
02:59:10,540 --> 02:59:12,060
Speaker 10: Half of these ads is kind of in that vein.

3260
02:59:12,080 --> 02:59:15,080
Speaker 10: An ad that came out this month from a GOP

3261
02:59:15,100 --> 02:59:19,080
Speaker 10: candidate for Congress in North Carolina uses AI-generated video to

3262
02:59:19,280 --> 02:59:24,620
Speaker 10: attack Democratic candidate Jamie Agar for hosting drag performances at

3263
02:59:24,740 --> 02:59:29,340
Speaker 10: his barn in 2019. And what's really insidious about this

3264
02:59:29,580 --> 02:59:32,400
Speaker 10: ad is that the first five seconds of the ad

3265
02:59:32,440 --> 02:59:36,840
Speaker 10: are actually manipulated media using real footage of Agar with

3266
02:59:36,920 --> 02:59:41,100
Speaker 10: a pride flag artificially added to the background. And then

3267
02:59:41,240 --> 02:59:44,039
Speaker 10: this real footage was used as the visual basis for

3268
02:59:44,080 --> 02:59:47,790
Speaker 10: the rest of the AI ad with him like dancing

3269
02:59:47,830 --> 02:59:51,750
Speaker 10: with various famous drag queens with no disclaimer that the

3270
02:59:51,790 --> 02:59:53,330
Speaker 10: drag queen footage is fake.

3271
02:59:53,810 --> 02:59:54,849
Speaker 6: I hate election years.

3272
02:59:55,090 --> 02:59:57,970
Speaker 10: There's this sort of like blending of reality in ads

3273
02:59:58,010 --> 03:00:02,350
Speaker 10: like this, which is like extremely dangerous. But the single

3274
03:00:02,370 --> 03:00:05,110
Speaker 10: candidate that's utilized AI ads the most is Republican candidate

3275
03:00:05,160 --> 03:00:07,640
Speaker 10: for New York governor Bruce Blakeman. According to the New

3276
03:00:07,660 --> 03:00:10,200
Speaker 10: York Times, Blakeman has posted at least 22 AI ads

3277
03:00:10,280 --> 03:00:13,459
Speaker 10: since April. He's been just pumping these videos out. From

3278
03:00:13,540 --> 03:00:17,490
Speaker 10: more traditional ads, just like replacing stock footage with more

3279
03:00:17,530 --> 03:00:22,010
Speaker 10: like cinematic AI visuals, to short little films or short

3280
03:00:22,030 --> 03:00:25,630
Speaker 10: videos of AI constituents talking about how bad New York

3281
03:00:25,650 --> 03:00:29,490
Speaker 10: has gotten under Kathy Hochul, to of course, deepfakes of

3282
03:00:29,610 --> 03:00:34,289
Speaker 10: Hochul herself. Blakeman's use of AI deepfakes has been rather innovative.

3283
03:00:35,140 --> 03:00:38,310
Speaker 10: One ad from September takes the form of a pharmaceutical

3284
03:00:38,340 --> 03:00:42,929
Speaker 10: commercial starring AI deepfake Governor Hochul and what is supposed

3285
03:00:42,970 --> 03:00:44,090
Speaker 10: to be Mayor Mamdani.

3286
03:00:44,209 --> 03:00:47,529
Speaker 6: Introducing Cathy, the political delusion pill for New Yorkers who'd

3287
03:00:47,570 --> 03:00:49,950
Speaker 6: rather not think about what four more years could actually

3288
03:00:50,010 --> 03:00:50,580
Speaker 6: cost them.

3289
03:00:50,879 --> 03:00:54,379
Speaker 13: Before Cathy, I worried about things like tax, utility bills, crime,

3290
03:00:54,420 --> 03:00:56,520
Speaker 13: and whether families could afford to stay in New York.

3291
03:00:57,080 --> 03:01:02,250
Speaker 6: And now? I just say it's someone else's fault. It's working.

3292
03:01:02,950 --> 03:01:05,810
Speaker 11: Side effects may include chronic wallet shrinkage, higher tax, higher

3293
03:01:05,890 --> 03:01:09,690
Speaker 11: utility bills, higher costs, shrinking paychecks, business leaving New York,

3294
03:01:10,110 --> 03:01:13,769
Speaker 11: uncontrollable government spending, sudden urges to defend socialists, and other

3295
03:01:13,830 --> 03:01:14,730
Speaker 11: financial complications.

3296
03:01:15,410 --> 03:01:16,870
Speaker 6: Every accusation is a confession.

3297
03:01:18,709 --> 03:01:21,670
Speaker 10: Like many others, this ad contained no AI disclosure in

3298
03:01:21,709 --> 03:01:25,420
Speaker 10: violation of New York law. Blakeman produced another ad in

3299
03:01:25,450 --> 03:01:29,339
Speaker 10: the form of a retro TV commercial, also starring AI

3300
03:01:29,540 --> 03:01:33,910
Speaker 10: Deepfake Hochul. where she offers free healthcare to, quote, illegal immigrants,

3301
03:01:34,110 --> 03:01:37,250
Speaker 10: sex workers, and homeless drug addicts. And that is supposed

3302
03:01:37,270 --> 03:01:38,000
Speaker 10: to be a bad thing.

3303
03:01:38,920 --> 03:01:39,540
Speaker 6: Yeah.

3304
03:01:40,900 --> 03:01:44,439
Speaker 10: Based on all the ads I've watched, which is more

3305
03:01:44,520 --> 03:01:48,279
Speaker 10: than I've included in this episode, I sort these AI

3306
03:01:48,360 --> 03:01:55,820
Speaker 10: deepfakes into three sometimes overlapping categories. First, there's demonstrative or

3307
03:01:56,180 --> 03:02:01,920
Speaker 10: descriptive AI, basically using AI visuals. in place of real

3308
03:02:02,200 --> 03:02:05,820
Speaker 10: photos or videos and more traditional ads. This is kind

3309
03:02:05,860 --> 03:02:10,640
Speaker 10: of using AI, like customized stock footage. Footage that looks

3310
03:02:10,700 --> 03:02:15,539
Speaker 10: and feels relatively realistic, like someone standing next to AI

3311
03:02:15,620 --> 03:02:18,560
Speaker 10: Trump at the White House, or a deep fake of

3312
03:02:18,600 --> 03:02:21,970
Speaker 10: a candidate reading quotes directly to camera with just like

3313
03:02:22,010 --> 03:02:26,310
Speaker 10: a plain white background. But because of its simplicity, this

3314
03:02:26,370 --> 03:02:31,140
Speaker 10: type of use could actually be the most deceptive. A

3315
03:02:31,180 --> 03:02:35,380
Speaker 10: deepfaked candidate reading a quote direct to camera without the

3316
03:02:35,440 --> 03:02:39,959
Speaker 10: context of why they said that quote could dramatically change

3317
03:02:40,020 --> 03:02:44,400
Speaker 10: its meaning and could be more easily mistaken for authentic footage.

3318
03:02:45,200 --> 03:02:48,340
Speaker 10: And then there's this other type, just like skits, right?

3319
03:02:48,379 --> 03:02:50,940
Speaker 10: This is what we've seen with the fishback ads. And

3320
03:02:50,970 --> 03:02:54,430
Speaker 10: this is deepfakes of political opponents usually acting in some

3321
03:02:54,470 --> 03:02:57,830
Speaker 10: sort of satirical sketch or narrative scenario. These could be

3322
03:02:57,890 --> 03:03:00,760
Speaker 10: either dramatic or comedic. They sometimes have like a brief

3323
03:03:00,840 --> 03:03:04,160
Speaker 10: plot that leads to a climax. This is most similar

3324
03:03:04,180 --> 03:03:06,560
Speaker 10: to what we would call like AI slop. Things that

3325
03:03:06,580 --> 03:03:10,280
Speaker 10: are much more easily recognizable as AI. And I think

3326
03:03:10,340 --> 03:03:12,779
Speaker 10: part of why these sorts of skits are so common

3327
03:03:12,860 --> 03:03:15,280
Speaker 10: is that for the sort of laws that are trying

3328
03:03:15,320 --> 03:03:18,400
Speaker 10: to regulate this sort of thing, there is First Amendment

3329
03:03:18,459 --> 03:03:22,359
Speaker 10: card votes for satire and parody. And so a lot

3330
03:03:22,379 --> 03:03:26,240
Speaker 10: of these ads could legally, arguably, be considered some form

3331
03:03:26,260 --> 03:03:28,760
Speaker 10: of parody. And that argument gives them a little bit

3332
03:03:28,780 --> 03:03:32,380
Speaker 10: of wiggle room. But there's another category of ad, which

3333
03:03:32,400 --> 03:03:35,000
Speaker 10: I'm going to call an AI scandal ad. A little

3334
03:03:35,020 --> 03:03:37,140
Speaker 10: bit of that drag queen barn ad, I think, would

3335
03:03:37,160 --> 03:03:39,879
Speaker 10: fall into this. And that's AI generating footage to visually

3336
03:03:39,959 --> 03:03:42,920
Speaker 10: implicate opponents in some sort of political scandal, whether by

3337
03:03:43,300 --> 03:03:46,150
Speaker 10: dramatizing an event that did happen, but with deceptive framing,

3338
03:03:46,550 --> 03:03:50,090
Speaker 10: or just depicting something completely fictional. A few months ago

3339
03:03:50,110 --> 03:03:52,910
Speaker 10: in Executive Disorder, I talked about that Niagara, Kentucky ad

3340
03:03:53,629 --> 03:03:58,190
Speaker 10: with AI generated footage of Republican Representative Thomas Massey holding

3341
03:03:58,230 --> 03:04:02,030
Speaker 10: hands and getting dinner with AOC and Ilhan Omar, followed

3342
03:04:02,050 --> 03:04:06,279
Speaker 10: by surveillance-style footage of them checking into a hotel room,

3343
03:04:06,580 --> 03:04:10,420
Speaker 10: with the ad being themed around Ilhan Omar and AOC

3344
03:04:10,680 --> 03:04:13,550
Speaker 10: and Massey are in a thruple together, and Massey has

3345
03:04:13,709 --> 03:04:14,730
Speaker 10: betrayed Trump.

3346
03:04:15,310 --> 03:04:19,500
Speaker 17: Thomas Massey caught in a throuple in Washington. He's cheating

3347
03:04:19,510 --> 03:04:23,180
Speaker 17: with the squad on the America First movement. Massey voted

3348
03:04:23,260 --> 03:04:26,580
Speaker 17: with the squad against Trump's tax cuts. As he voted

3349
03:04:26,640 --> 03:04:28,840
Speaker 17: with the squad against finishing Trump's wall.

3350
03:04:29,379 --> 03:04:30,420
Speaker 1: He voted with them.

3351
03:04:30,320 --> 03:04:32,039
Speaker 6: Against hiring new border agents.

3352
03:04:32,520 --> 03:04:36,060
Speaker 17: Well, this is worse than adultery. It's a complete and

3353
03:04:36,140 --> 03:04:39,360
Speaker 17: total betrayal of President Trump and Kentucky conservatives.

3354
03:04:39,780 --> 03:04:41,940
Speaker 6: On May 19th, fire Thomas Massey.

3355
03:04:42,220 --> 03:04:44,779
Speaker 17: MAGA Kentucky is responsible for the content of this advertising.

3356
03:04:45,250 --> 03:04:47,690
Speaker 10: Massey has said that this ad did trick people into

3357
03:04:47,730 --> 03:04:51,129
Speaker 10: thinking that he was in a real throuple with these people.

3358
03:04:51,629 --> 03:04:54,679
Speaker 10: Because the footage is actually pretty convincing. For someone who's

3359
03:04:54,820 --> 03:04:58,460
Speaker 10: older than 60, it could be hard to distinguish that

3360
03:04:58,480 --> 03:05:01,700
Speaker 10: this is not real footage. Especially when they put these

3361
03:05:01,879 --> 03:05:03,780
Speaker 10: filters on it to make it look like it's surveillance

3362
03:05:03,800 --> 03:05:07,080
Speaker 10: footage of them checking into a hotel room. Currently 31

3363
03:05:07,080 --> 03:05:09,830
Speaker 10: states have laws regulating the use of AI and deepfakes

3364
03:05:09,870 --> 03:05:14,730
Speaker 10: in political ads. Maryland has banned misleading election-related deepfakes entirely.

3365
03:05:15,300 --> 03:05:18,339
Speaker 10: And California and Texas have banned the publication of deceptive

3366
03:05:18,379 --> 03:05:21,410
Speaker 10: or harmful political deep fakes 30 days prior to an election.

3367
03:05:21,870 --> 03:05:25,310
Speaker 10: Minnesota has a similar law. But other state regulations just

3368
03:05:25,350 --> 03:05:30,390
Speaker 10: require a disclosure if AI was used. And obviously, disclosures

3369
03:05:30,430 --> 03:05:33,220
Speaker 10: are not enough for this problem. And those don't even

3370
03:05:33,240 --> 03:05:35,420
Speaker 10: get followed half the time. We need to get as

3371
03:05:35,459 --> 03:05:38,779
Speaker 10: close as we can just banning AI ads entirely. There

3372
03:05:38,800 --> 03:05:42,440
Speaker 10: are currently two bills seeking to federally regulate, quote, deceptive

3373
03:05:42,560 --> 03:05:45,990
Speaker 10: AI and AI in politics. These are pending in Congress

3374
03:05:46,050 --> 03:05:50,530
Speaker 10: and probably won't pass anytime soon, at least certainly not

3375
03:05:50,610 --> 03:05:54,160
Speaker 10: until there's a new Congress. And for these bills to succeed,

3376
03:05:54,180 --> 03:05:56,420
Speaker 10: they do need to be written carefully, because if they're

3377
03:05:56,560 --> 03:06:01,220
Speaker 10: overly broad, they could be struck down on First Amendment grounds. Lastly,

3378
03:06:01,300 --> 03:06:05,220
Speaker 10: I'll mention there was a 2026 study in communication research

3379
03:06:06,320 --> 03:06:09,700
Speaker 10: which found that even when participants knew a video of

3380
03:06:09,740 --> 03:06:13,080
Speaker 10: a political figure was an AI deepfake, that deepfake, quote,

3381
03:06:13,650 --> 03:06:18,080
Speaker 10: still has the intended delegitimizing impact on the attacked politician

3382
03:06:18,680 --> 03:06:22,840
Speaker 10: by lowering support for the targeted candidate. So just because

3383
03:06:22,879 --> 03:06:26,660
Speaker 10: these ads aren't necessarily convincing all the time doesn't mean

3384
03:06:26,700 --> 03:06:30,430
Speaker 10: they don't have negative effects. So yeah, doppelganger is pretty scary.

3385
03:06:30,910 --> 03:06:35,789
Speaker 6: Y'all ever heard of a Butlerian jihad? A lot of

3386
03:06:35,830 --> 03:06:39,330
Speaker 6: that going around these days. Oh, God.

3387
03:06:40,030 --> 03:06:44,519
Speaker 10: Speaking of ads, hopefully not AI-generated ads, It is time

3388
03:06:44,620 --> 03:06:46,050
Speaker 10: for one more ad break.

3389
03:06:57,879 --> 03:07:01,470
Speaker 6: And we're back. And I know what you all are thinking.

3390
03:07:01,550 --> 03:07:04,770
Speaker 6: You're thinking Margaret hates everything. And that's not true. I

3391
03:07:06,030 --> 03:07:09,879
Speaker 6: like widespread revolt. Also, I like Sophie's outfit. I wish

3392
03:07:09,959 --> 03:07:15,039
Speaker 6: all of you out there could see. That's incredible, actually.

3393
03:07:15,320 --> 03:07:18,879
Speaker 6: That's legitimately crazy. Sophie as Princess Peach. Yeah, that's amazing.

3394
03:07:18,940 --> 03:07:20,860
Speaker 16: It's so nice to see someone just wearing an outfit

3395
03:07:20,879 --> 03:07:22,640
Speaker 16: that isn't racist and it's just nice.

3396
03:07:22,900 --> 03:07:25,680
Speaker 6: It's so rare in my line of work.

3397
03:07:25,700 --> 03:07:25,840
Speaker 10: So....

3398
03:07:30,570 --> 03:07:34,230
Speaker 6: Countries all over are doing a widespread revolt thing right now.

3399
03:07:34,290 --> 03:07:36,820
Speaker 6: That is happening. That has been going on for a

3400
03:07:36,860 --> 03:07:38,940
Speaker 6: couple of weeks depending on– well, a couple of months

3401
03:07:39,220 --> 03:07:42,040
Speaker 6: depending on how you're going to be paying attention to this.

3402
03:07:42,300 --> 03:07:45,680
Speaker 6: And Albania is on the list of countries of widespread revolt.

3403
03:07:45,920 --> 03:07:47,330
Speaker 6: But it's one of the ones that no one covers

3404
03:07:47,410 --> 03:07:49,790
Speaker 6: despite the fact that it has the coolest flag of

3405
03:07:49,830 --> 03:07:53,640
Speaker 6: the countries that are covered in this particular way. Although–

3406
03:07:53,870 --> 03:07:58,510
Speaker 6: I probably just like medieval-looking things. Is it cooler than Nepal, though? Whoa,

3407
03:07:58,570 --> 03:07:59,290
Speaker 6: is Nepal in your vault?

3408
03:07:59,510 --> 03:08:01,190
Speaker 7: Nepal, I guess you could consider the first one of

3409
03:08:01,230 --> 03:08:02,570
Speaker 7: these from a couple years ago.

3410
03:08:02,590 --> 03:08:06,509
Speaker 6: Okay. Yeah, no, that's true. The dragon flag's cool as hell.

3411
03:08:07,430 --> 03:08:09,220
Speaker 6: We've got to acknowledge that. I mean, the one with

3412
03:08:09,240 --> 03:08:13,400
Speaker 6: the machete and the... Talking about Mozambique? Yeah, that's the

3413
03:08:13,420 --> 03:08:16,539
Speaker 6: best flag in the world. We just have to acknowledge that. Yeah,

3414
03:08:16,800 --> 03:08:17,560
Speaker 6: the machete and the AK.

3415
03:08:17,580 --> 03:08:17,760
Speaker 10: Okay.

3416
03:08:18,310 --> 03:08:20,530
Speaker 6: I don't even like a hammer and sickle all that much,

3417
03:08:20,560 --> 03:08:24,080
Speaker 6: although I recognize it as a good icon. Anyway, whatever. Okay,

3418
03:08:24,220 --> 03:08:26,100
Speaker 6: so Albania is on this list, and people don't know

3419
03:08:26,160 --> 03:08:28,740
Speaker 6: shit about Albania. And so I thought I would talk

3420
03:08:28,840 --> 03:08:32,230
Speaker 6: about the revolt in Albania. And this is going to

3421
03:08:32,250 --> 03:08:35,910
Speaker 6: be a situation that is entirely unfathomable to the American mind.

3422
03:08:36,330 --> 03:08:40,350
Speaker 6: There are two major political parties, only two, and one

3423
03:08:40,390 --> 03:08:44,140
Speaker 6: of them is center-left and one of them is center-right.

3424
03:08:44,820 --> 03:08:47,600
Speaker 6: And they're both corrupt as fuck. And they're both privatizing

3425
03:08:47,640 --> 03:08:50,000
Speaker 6: the shit out of everything. And they're the only... It's

3426
03:08:50,020 --> 03:08:52,370
Speaker 6: funny because it gets called a regime because they are

3427
03:08:52,410 --> 03:08:54,190
Speaker 6: the only parties that have been in power for like

3428
03:08:54,190 --> 03:08:56,770
Speaker 6: 30 years. Yeah. Anyway, think on that.

3429
03:08:56,870 --> 03:08:59,090
Speaker 16: It gets called a regime because it's like east of

3430
03:08:59,129 --> 03:09:00,410
Speaker 16: some delineating line.

3431
03:09:00,450 --> 03:09:03,660
Speaker 6: Maybe Poland, right? Where everything... Yeah, totally. Yeah.

3432
03:09:04,800 --> 03:09:04,980
Speaker 2: Yeah.

3433
03:09:05,420 --> 03:09:07,220
Speaker 6: And it also is a regime. No one likes it.

3434
03:09:07,240 --> 03:09:09,820
Speaker 6: That's why they're having this big revolt. But the cost

3435
03:09:09,840 --> 03:09:13,030
Speaker 6: of living keeps rising. Conditions are getting worse. People are

3436
03:09:13,070 --> 03:09:15,550
Speaker 6: mad about their country sending aid to Israel. They're mad

3437
03:09:15,570 --> 03:09:17,609
Speaker 6: about the destruction of the environment in the name of

3438
03:09:17,730 --> 03:09:20,630
Speaker 6: rich people having fancy shit. They're even mad at like

3439
03:09:20,670 --> 03:09:24,170
Speaker 6: Jared Kushner has released all this. And they are tired

3440
03:09:24,190 --> 03:09:26,030
Speaker 6: of the violence of the police and other voices not

3441
03:09:26,050 --> 03:09:29,750
Speaker 6: getting heard. So they are in pretty open revolt right now.

3442
03:09:30,450 --> 03:09:34,849
Speaker 6: And I'm still working on building more about this. I've

3443
03:09:34,870 --> 03:09:37,570
Speaker 6: basically just spent the past couple days talking with comrades

3444
03:09:37,629 --> 03:09:41,490
Speaker 6: in the area. They're like busy and there's like stuff happening,

3445
03:09:41,910 --> 03:09:45,020
Speaker 6: you know. And so they're like sending me some things.

3446
03:09:45,100 --> 03:09:47,420
Speaker 6: And then like, here's 170 page book about the like

3447
03:09:47,840 --> 03:09:51,820
Speaker 6: neoliberalism of our country. And I'm like, okay, Albania is

3448
03:09:51,840 --> 03:09:54,250
Speaker 6: a small country. It's about two and a half million people.

3449
03:09:54,310 --> 03:09:56,370
Speaker 6: It is a one quarter of a New York City,

3450
03:09:56,810 --> 03:09:59,470
Speaker 6: depending on how you're mapping New York City's metro area.

3451
03:09:59,970 --> 03:10:02,810
Speaker 6: And it's in the Balkans. It's Northwest of Greece. Albania

3452
03:10:02,830 --> 03:10:06,310
Speaker 6: was once part of the Ottoman Empire, declared independence in 1912.

3453
03:10:06,310 --> 03:10:09,570
Speaker 6: Communists liberated the place from Nazis in 1944. And then

3454
03:10:09,590 --> 03:10:12,490
Speaker 6: they did a communist dictatorship that, overall is not looked

3455
03:10:12,620 --> 03:10:17,090
Speaker 6: nicely upon even by the modern left wing of that country, right?

3456
03:10:17,450 --> 03:10:20,010
Speaker 6: So people aren't like, oh, I miss when everyone was Stalinist.

3457
03:10:20,070 --> 03:10:23,929
Speaker 6: That's not really what's happening here. It got multi-party elections

3458
03:10:24,470 --> 03:10:28,589
Speaker 6: in 1991. The communists lost their first election in 1992,

3459
03:10:28,590 --> 03:10:31,270
Speaker 6: which put a guy named Sally Barishi in charge. And

3460
03:10:31,310 --> 03:10:33,590
Speaker 6: I have only been reading and I have not yet

3461
03:10:33,650 --> 03:10:36,890
Speaker 6: talked in person. So I'm going to mispronounce important names here.

3462
03:10:37,230 --> 03:10:40,310
Speaker 6: It put a guy named Sally Barishi in charge. Mia,

3463
03:10:40,330 --> 03:10:43,930
Speaker 6: you're the most likely to randomly know this guy's actual name.

3464
03:10:44,709 --> 03:10:49,950
Speaker 7: Yeah, unfortunately, I strike out after Hoxa, which was Albanian.

3465
03:10:49,970 --> 03:10:50,370
Speaker 7: That's cool.

3466
03:10:50,510 --> 03:10:52,709
Speaker 6: I didn't put Hoxa in here because I had no

3467
03:10:52,790 --> 03:10:53,930
Speaker 6: idea how to pronounce that name.

3468
03:10:55,000 --> 03:10:58,039
Speaker 7: Who was the main communist? Yeah, he was the communist dictator.

3469
03:10:58,700 --> 03:11:02,119
Speaker 7: Went from Maoism to the Maoist got too far right,

3470
03:11:02,200 --> 03:11:03,480
Speaker 7: so he became Juche, and then.

3471
03:11:03,959 --> 03:11:07,120
Speaker 6: Okay. Built a bunch of bunkers. The whole thing, fiasco. Oh,

3472
03:11:07,180 --> 03:11:09,020
Speaker 6: this is the bunker country. This is the bunker guy.

3473
03:11:09,220 --> 03:11:09,940
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah.

3474
03:11:10,400 --> 03:11:10,880
Speaker 6: Okay, great.

3475
03:11:11,080 --> 03:11:14,500
Speaker 16: Yeah, this is bunkers. People know bunkers in a Norman wisdom.

3476
03:11:14,760 --> 03:11:16,820
Speaker 16: I should point out before someone goes on to Reddit.com

3477
03:11:16,840 --> 03:11:19,199
Speaker 16: that I am aware that Albania is not to the east.

3478
03:11:19,100 --> 03:11:24,279
Speaker 6: Of all of Poland. Yeah, totally. All right. Sally Barishi

3479
03:11:24,340 --> 03:11:26,660
Speaker 6: is still a player in this story, the guy who

3480
03:11:26,680 --> 03:11:30,900
Speaker 6: won in 1992. He was a big anti-communist reformer. It's

3481
03:11:30,920 --> 03:11:34,170
Speaker 6: a majority Muslim country, and he basically unbanned religion. He

3482
03:11:34,209 --> 03:11:36,810
Speaker 6: privatized the fuck out of everything he could. And then

3483
03:11:37,010 --> 03:11:40,490
Speaker 6: under him, literally half of the country's wealth was invested

3484
03:11:40,530 --> 03:11:42,050
Speaker 6: into a series of pyramid schemes.

3485
03:11:42,110 --> 03:11:43,150
Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, pyramid schemes.

3486
03:11:43,820 --> 03:11:45,820
Speaker 6: And so everyone gave all of their money to these

3487
03:11:45,860 --> 03:11:48,500
Speaker 6: pyramid schemes because they had just gotten out of communism.

3488
03:11:48,560 --> 03:11:50,160
Speaker 6: And so people were like, oh, I know what you

3489
03:11:50,180 --> 03:11:52,520
Speaker 6: can do with your money, but guaranteed returns. And probably

3490
03:11:52,620 --> 03:11:55,440
Speaker 6: all they've ever been hearing is like guaranteed returns. That's

3491
03:11:55,459 --> 03:11:57,460
Speaker 6: what people tell you about the stock market in America,

3492
03:11:57,520 --> 03:11:57,720
Speaker 6: you know?

3493
03:11:57,920 --> 03:12:00,580
Speaker 16: Well, and like people did get rich in like Russia, right?

3494
03:12:00,600 --> 03:12:03,390
Speaker 16: Like grabbing a bunch of previously nationalized shit.

3495
03:12:03,430 --> 03:12:05,150
Speaker 6: Like that's how some of the oligarchs came to be.

3496
03:12:05,190 --> 03:12:05,330
Speaker 10: Yeah.

3497
03:12:05,950 --> 03:12:08,790
Speaker 16: So you can see it happening, and it's very fertile

3498
03:12:08,850 --> 03:12:10,410
Speaker 16: terrain for this shit.

3499
03:12:10,629 --> 03:12:12,930
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's not like half the country are fools, right?

3500
03:12:13,230 --> 03:12:16,400
Speaker 6: But the pyramid schemes, it's not a very stable form

3501
03:12:16,440 --> 03:12:19,520
Speaker 6: of society. They collapsed, and it fucked everyone over because

3502
03:12:19,540 --> 03:12:21,600
Speaker 6: so many people had invested in these short deals. So

3503
03:12:21,620 --> 03:12:24,500
Speaker 6: Albania had basically a civil war level of revolt against

3504
03:12:24,600 --> 03:12:27,780
Speaker 6: corruption in 1997. It wound up with its current constitution.

3505
03:12:28,410 --> 03:12:31,170
Speaker 6: but it still has a fuck ton of corruption. It

3506
03:12:31,190 --> 03:12:33,610
Speaker 6: went on to join NATO in 2009. It's not yet

3507
03:12:33,660 --> 03:12:35,879
Speaker 6: in the EU. It's a candidate country. It has been

3508
03:12:35,900 --> 03:12:39,160
Speaker 6: for about 12 years. And Sally Barishi, the guy who

3509
03:12:39,180 --> 03:12:40,879
Speaker 6: let all this bad shit happen under him with the

3510
03:12:40,900 --> 03:12:44,540
Speaker 6: Ponzi schemes, he ends up prime minister again from 2005

3511
03:12:44,540 --> 03:12:49,220
Speaker 6: to 2013. But then, ever since then, he's the Democrat party,

3512
03:12:49,280 --> 03:12:53,030
Speaker 6: the Democratic party. They are the center-right party. Then the

3513
03:12:53,090 --> 03:12:56,609
Speaker 6: center-left party, the socialist party, has been in charge forever.

3514
03:12:57,490 --> 03:13:00,910
Speaker 6: Ever since 2013. Under the direction of a guy named

3515
03:13:01,030 --> 03:13:04,720
Speaker 6: Eddie Rama. And he has been prime minister since 2013.

3516
03:13:04,709 --> 03:13:07,650
Speaker 6: He's currently on his fourth term. And he is corrupt

3517
03:13:07,810 --> 03:13:10,709
Speaker 6: as fuck. Rama came to power by being, oh, and

3518
03:13:10,730 --> 03:13:13,230
Speaker 6: you all will like this. Rama came to power by

3519
03:13:13,270 --> 03:13:15,449
Speaker 6: being the popular socialist mayor of the biggest city in

3520
03:13:15,490 --> 03:13:18,810
Speaker 6: the country, the capital Tirana. And he won everyone's hearts

3521
03:13:18,850 --> 03:13:21,910
Speaker 6: by repainting the city vibrant colors to move away from

3522
03:13:21,950 --> 03:13:24,330
Speaker 6: like the drab Soviet era. So he was like, I've

3523
03:13:24,350 --> 03:13:26,589
Speaker 6: done civic improvement and I'm the socialist mayor and everyone

3524
03:13:26,610 --> 03:13:28,740
Speaker 6: loves me. And that's how the Socialist Party was able

3525
03:13:28,760 --> 03:13:31,820
Speaker 6: to come to power. But then he changed nothing. And

3526
03:13:32,260 --> 03:13:35,110
Speaker 6: he's fully into privatization and corruption just like the other guys.

3527
03:13:35,430 --> 03:13:37,689
Speaker 6: And he is fully in bed with organized crime, it

3528
03:13:37,790 --> 03:13:41,330
Speaker 6: seems like. Obviously, people like to argue about this. And

3529
03:13:41,370 --> 03:13:44,650
Speaker 6: press freedom is terrible there. Everything is just getting bad.

3530
03:13:45,150 --> 03:13:48,170
Speaker 6: About a third of the country has emigrated. There's about

3531
03:13:48,170 --> 03:13:52,250
Speaker 6: 1.1 million Albanian-born people living elsewhere. Jeez.

3532
03:13:52,270 --> 03:13:52,510
Speaker 14: Right?

3533
03:13:53,770 --> 03:13:57,570
Speaker 6: To quote an as-yet-unpublished piece from some comrades in the Balkans, quote,

3534
03:13:57,990 --> 03:14:00,369
Speaker 6: For years, Eddie Rama has used his power to seize

3535
03:14:00,430 --> 03:14:03,680
Speaker 6: control over every sphere of social life. Much like under

3536
03:14:03,720 --> 03:14:07,480
Speaker 6: the government of Sally Berisha, oligarchs have forged close criminal

3537
03:14:07,520 --> 03:14:10,800
Speaker 6: ties with those in power. Oh, and then the worst

3538
03:14:10,820 --> 03:14:14,160
Speaker 6: thing about this man, he's a podcaster. Oh, wow.

3539
03:14:14,840 --> 03:14:15,679
Speaker 15: Oh, no.

3540
03:14:16,140 --> 03:14:18,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, he has a podcast. It's just the way it

3541
03:14:18,379 --> 03:14:18,780
Speaker 6: is now.

3542
03:14:18,959 --> 03:14:19,300
Speaker 14: Yeah.

3543
03:14:19,840 --> 03:14:20,720
Speaker 6: Gavin Newsom, too.

3544
03:14:20,740 --> 03:14:20,800
Speaker 4: So.

3545
03:14:22,209 --> 03:14:24,590
Speaker 6: That's the setup. Why are there big protests? And one

3546
03:14:24,610 --> 03:14:26,350
Speaker 6: of the reasons I want to do this, people feel

3547
03:14:26,510 --> 03:14:28,850
Speaker 6: in Albania feel pretty misrepresented in the West. And it's

3548
03:14:28,870 --> 03:14:31,629
Speaker 6: like everything I've read has been like it all started

3549
03:14:31,690 --> 03:14:35,050
Speaker 6: in France and it's spreading. And that's like, yeah, no,

3550
03:14:35,209 --> 03:14:39,039
Speaker 6: not really. I love the France revolt. Don't get me wrong.

3551
03:14:39,459 --> 03:14:42,480
Speaker 6: But like every country has its own reasons it's doing this,

3552
03:14:42,640 --> 03:14:45,400
Speaker 6: you know. So then Jared Kushner, I hate that I

3553
03:14:45,440 --> 03:14:46,920
Speaker 6: finally have to learn these people that you all talk

3554
03:14:46,940 --> 03:14:48,760
Speaker 6: about in your day job all the time. And this

3555
03:14:48,780 --> 03:14:51,040
Speaker 6: is why I do history for a living. Jared Kushner,

3556
03:14:51,060 --> 03:14:54,240
Speaker 6: Trump's son-in-law, he visits Albania and he sees a cool

3557
03:14:54,420 --> 03:14:56,680
Speaker 6: island called Cezanne. And I don't know if I'm pronouncing

3558
03:14:56,700 --> 03:14:59,560
Speaker 6: that right. And it was undeveloped and it was protected.

3559
03:14:59,620 --> 03:15:01,620
Speaker 6: It was protected wetlands. It was like, don't fuck with

3560
03:15:01,640 --> 03:15:03,970
Speaker 6: this island. We all love it. All that's there is

3561
03:15:04,000 --> 03:15:07,710
Speaker 6: an abandoned military base. And he's like, but my dad

3562
03:15:07,770 --> 03:15:10,550
Speaker 6: is Trump. So what if I want to put a

3563
03:15:10,610 --> 03:15:14,320
Speaker 6: really fancy resort there? And also a big part of

3564
03:15:14,340 --> 03:15:17,019
Speaker 6: the protected area of the wetlands on the mainland as well.

3565
03:15:17,940 --> 03:15:21,280
Speaker 6: So Rama personally visited Kushner and was like, yeah, fuck it.

3566
03:15:21,410 --> 03:15:22,850
Speaker 6: All right, we'll figure it out. We'll figure out a

3567
03:15:22,870 --> 03:15:24,770
Speaker 6: way to make this legal. And so they passed a

3568
03:15:24,830 --> 03:15:27,310
Speaker 6: law that was like, just kidding. Rich foreigners can bulldoze

3569
03:15:27,350 --> 03:15:32,709
Speaker 6: our protected wildlands. And people didn't like that. So in May,

3570
03:15:33,010 --> 03:15:36,150
Speaker 6: at a protest against the playgrounds for rich right-wing tourists

3571
03:15:36,209 --> 03:15:39,470
Speaker 6: that should have been a protected ecosystem... A protester was

3572
03:15:39,550 --> 03:15:42,100
Speaker 6: dragged and beaten by a private security guard who then

3573
03:15:42,120 --> 03:15:44,780
Speaker 6: put a gun to the guy's head, right? And all

3574
03:15:44,820 --> 03:15:46,500
Speaker 6: of this happened in front of the cops. Everyone's like,

3575
03:15:46,840 --> 03:15:48,360
Speaker 6: why aren't you doing anything? And they're like, I don't know,

3576
03:15:48,379 --> 03:15:51,640
Speaker 6: because we're the cops, right? We're corrupt. And this was

3577
03:15:51,700 --> 03:15:57,950
Speaker 6: the spark. But the protests aren't about the resorts. They

3578
03:15:58,090 --> 03:16:00,150
Speaker 6: are and they aren't. This is the spark. But the

3579
03:16:00,270 --> 03:16:04,170
Speaker 6: fuel is decades of corruption, privatization, rising costs of living,

3580
03:16:04,230 --> 03:16:08,330
Speaker 6: mass emigration, and And a sense of powerlessness, right? All

3581
03:16:08,420 --> 03:16:11,610
Speaker 6: protest movements have been captured by one political party or

3582
03:16:11,650 --> 03:16:14,750
Speaker 6: the other going back for decades. And so now you

3583
03:16:14,770 --> 03:16:17,609
Speaker 6: have the Flamingo protests, and they're called that because flamingos

3584
03:16:17,629 --> 03:16:20,990
Speaker 6: live in those wetlands. And they're very explicitly against both

3585
03:16:21,090 --> 03:16:24,459
Speaker 6: Rama and Berisha. Berisha is the opposition leader still. And

3586
03:16:24,500 --> 03:16:26,520
Speaker 6: he keeps trying to be like, oh, these are totally

3587
03:16:26,560 --> 03:16:30,680
Speaker 6: my protests. Everyone loves me. And best I can infer,

3588
03:16:30,730 --> 03:16:32,970
Speaker 6: I'm still waiting on confirmation. I believe that when his

3589
03:16:33,030 --> 03:16:35,610
Speaker 6: people show up to try and co-opt the protest, they

3590
03:16:35,650 --> 03:16:38,010
Speaker 6: get pushed to the outside and sometimes literally thrown in

3591
03:16:38,030 --> 03:16:42,160
Speaker 6: the river. We got to start doing that to try

3592
03:16:42,180 --> 03:16:45,030
Speaker 6: to hijack protests. And so it is and isn't a

3593
03:16:45,070 --> 03:16:47,470
Speaker 6: Gen Z protest. This is a whole generation of people

3594
03:16:47,510 --> 03:16:49,709
Speaker 6: who've only ever known the Rama regime and they see

3595
03:16:49,750 --> 03:16:53,100
Speaker 6: no fear. in themselves. So they are out there protesting.

3596
03:16:53,400 --> 03:16:56,680
Speaker 6: And for 130 days, it was a big, peaceful daily protest,

3597
03:16:56,700 --> 03:16:58,370
Speaker 6: which was a whole new kind of protest. It was

3598
03:16:58,390 --> 03:17:00,550
Speaker 6: a little more of an Occupy type thing. People would

3599
03:17:00,570 --> 03:17:02,949
Speaker 6: go out every day and they would like have a

3600
03:17:03,050 --> 03:17:07,070
Speaker 6: kind of carnival air, right? And the one rallying cry

3601
03:17:07,230 --> 03:17:09,190
Speaker 6: uniting the crime because all different types of people are

3602
03:17:09,220 --> 03:17:11,260
Speaker 6: there with all types of different demands. The one rallying

3603
03:17:11,320 --> 03:17:15,680
Speaker 6: cry is Rama to prison, Barisha to prison. So they

3604
03:17:15,760 --> 03:17:19,100
Speaker 6: want the head of both their political parties in fucking

3605
03:17:19,160 --> 03:17:22,320
Speaker 6: jail for decades of corruption. Which reminds me of the

3606
03:17:22,379 --> 03:17:27,340
Speaker 6: Argentinian protest chant from 2003. Que se vayan todos. They

3607
03:17:27,379 --> 03:17:28,040
Speaker 6: all must go.

3608
03:17:28,060 --> 03:17:30,240
Speaker 7: I think it's 2001.

3609
03:17:30,240 --> 03:17:33,080
Speaker 6: Is it 2001? I trust you far more than I

3610
03:17:33,120 --> 03:17:35,920
Speaker 6: trust me with remembering things like that. Which is funny

3611
03:17:35,940 --> 03:17:38,890
Speaker 6: because that's the exact line that came into my head. Yeah, no, totally.

3612
03:17:38,910 --> 03:17:40,289
Speaker 6: They all must go, right?

3613
03:17:40,770 --> 03:17:41,110
Speaker 10: Yeah.

3614
03:17:41,930 --> 03:17:44,390
Speaker 6: They must all go to prison. Yeah, totally.

3615
03:17:44,470 --> 03:17:44,670
Speaker 10: Yeah.

3616
03:17:44,790 --> 03:17:45,550
Speaker 6: Parentheses.

3617
03:17:45,690 --> 03:17:45,890
Speaker 10: Yeah.

3618
03:17:46,459 --> 03:17:49,700
Speaker 6: So that 130 days of peaceful protests were just ignored

3619
03:17:49,900 --> 03:17:52,480
Speaker 6: by the government and, and or repressed. Right. And so

3620
03:17:52,520 --> 03:17:56,460
Speaker 6: finally on October 13th, the students were like, man, fuck

3621
03:17:56,480 --> 03:17:59,000
Speaker 6: this shit. And so they had, they threw a student

3622
03:17:59,040 --> 03:18:01,980
Speaker 6: strike and the protests have escalated ever since into a

3623
03:18:02,040 --> 03:18:05,119
Speaker 6: genuine uprising. And the, the way it's presented by the

3624
03:18:05,160 --> 03:18:08,480
Speaker 6: people that I'm reading and talking to is like, the

3625
03:18:08,580 --> 03:18:11,060
Speaker 6: only question is what we're going to do when the

3626
03:18:11,120 --> 03:18:15,260
Speaker 6: Rama government falls. Like, They believe they are going to

3627
03:18:15,330 --> 03:18:18,370
Speaker 6: win as of time of recording last I talked to

3628
03:18:18,410 --> 03:18:22,529
Speaker 6: some people, right? And the government has been attacking people

3629
03:18:22,550 --> 03:18:24,949
Speaker 6: in the streets with all the usual shit, chemical weapons,

3630
03:18:25,010 --> 03:18:28,709
Speaker 6: water cannons, baton rounds. They took out somebody's eye. They're

3631
03:18:28,750 --> 03:18:31,480
Speaker 6: kidnapping people in the middle of the night. There's plainclothes

3632
03:18:31,580 --> 03:18:34,720
Speaker 6: officers attacking people, arresting people. People are being beaten inside

3633
03:18:34,740 --> 03:18:37,540
Speaker 6: of the jails. They're passing all of these new laws

3634
03:18:37,600 --> 03:18:40,500
Speaker 6: specifically to punish. Now, it's no longer illegal just to

3635
03:18:40,540 --> 03:18:42,320
Speaker 6: break shit at a protest, but if you're in a

3636
03:18:42,360 --> 03:18:44,990
Speaker 6: protest where anyone breaks shit, you can get in trouble

3637
03:18:45,000 --> 03:18:47,790
Speaker 6: for that. And this isn't stopping people. As for who

3638
03:18:47,870 --> 03:18:51,590
Speaker 6: is doing it, quote, I'm quoting this unreleased thing that

3639
03:18:51,629 --> 03:18:54,610
Speaker 6: is not, this is not the finished translation. And I'll

3640
03:18:54,629 --> 03:18:56,930
Speaker 6: be covering this more on some of my shows as

3641
03:18:56,990 --> 03:18:59,250
Speaker 6: I get more information. As for who's doing this, quote,

3642
03:18:59,610 --> 03:19:03,780
Speaker 6: students and pupils, trade unionists, parents and children, political groups

3643
03:19:03,840 --> 03:19:07,959
Speaker 6: and leftist political parties, sports fans, right-wing groups and nationalists,

3644
03:19:08,420 --> 03:19:11,530
Speaker 6: a whole host of people from diverse spheres, ranging from

3645
03:19:11,629 --> 03:19:15,890
Speaker 6: educators to social media influencers. And quote, there is no

3646
03:19:15,990 --> 03:19:18,070
Speaker 6: clear vision for what should follow the fall of the

3647
03:19:18,110 --> 03:19:21,000
Speaker 6: Rama government, nor is there a defined strategy for how

3648
03:19:21,030 --> 03:19:24,460
Speaker 6: the resistance might continue. But one thing is certain, there

3649
03:19:24,520 --> 03:19:29,360
Speaker 6: is no turning back. And public gatherings are being restricted.

3650
03:19:29,440 --> 03:19:31,240
Speaker 6: People are being told they can't leave the country, which

3651
03:19:31,400 --> 03:19:34,250
Speaker 6: is unconstitutional according to Albanian law. You're not supposed to

3652
03:19:34,260 --> 03:19:37,830
Speaker 6: be able to prevent people from leaving the country. And again,

3653
03:19:38,400 --> 03:19:40,680
Speaker 6: It seems like there is a chance that this will

3654
03:19:40,720 --> 03:19:45,700
Speaker 6: turn into a thing where people form assemblies and build counterpower.

3655
03:19:46,200 --> 03:19:49,740
Speaker 6: And if so, we might see a real revolution and

3656
03:19:49,780 --> 03:19:52,680
Speaker 6: not just one party replaced with another. I am a

3657
03:19:52,980 --> 03:19:55,440
Speaker 6: cynical enough person who's seen a lot of uprisings around

3658
03:19:55,470 --> 03:19:57,970
Speaker 6: the world where I'm not specifically holding my breath. But

3659
03:19:58,010 --> 03:20:01,880
Speaker 6: I fucking– fuck yeah. And in the meantime, Rama refuses

3660
03:20:01,920 --> 03:20:04,039
Speaker 6: to sit down. He's like, I'm willing to talk to

3661
03:20:04,080 --> 03:20:06,279
Speaker 6: you all. But everyone's like, no, get the fuck out.

3662
03:20:06,340 --> 03:20:07,260
Speaker 6: He's like, no, I'm willing to talk to you. So

3663
03:20:07,280 --> 03:20:09,820
Speaker 6: he set chairs up in front of his office as

3664
03:20:09,840 --> 03:20:11,550
Speaker 6: a symbolic, like, come talk to me.

3665
03:20:11,580 --> 03:20:11,940
Speaker 7: Sit down.

3666
03:20:11,970 --> 03:20:14,490
Speaker 6: We'll have a conversation. So they set the chairs on fire.

3667
03:20:14,510 --> 03:20:20,030
Speaker 6: Hell yeah. Incredible. They're not talking to this man. They

3668
03:20:20,190 --> 03:20:22,710
Speaker 6: are the power. They are the people. And they want

3669
03:20:22,750 --> 03:20:26,000
Speaker 6: him fucking gone. That's what I got so far. By

3670
03:20:26,040 --> 03:20:28,240
Speaker 6: the time this comes out, it might be completely different

3671
03:20:28,360 --> 03:20:30,680
Speaker 6: because even my news is about two days old.

3672
03:20:31,420 --> 03:20:31,660
Speaker 7: Nice.

3673
03:20:31,680 --> 03:20:36,450
Speaker 6: All right. Princess Peach is... I believe blessing the Albanian

3674
03:20:36,750 --> 03:20:38,990
Speaker 6: revolt is what's happening with Sophie right now.

3675
03:20:39,209 --> 03:20:39,449
Speaker 10: Yes.

3676
03:20:40,650 --> 03:20:43,869
Speaker 6: Orthodox Princess Peach. You all are going to be so

3677
03:20:43,930 --> 03:20:46,950
Speaker 6: sad this is not a video show because Sophie is

3678
03:20:47,010 --> 03:20:47,770
Speaker 6: fucking killing it.

3679
03:20:48,090 --> 03:20:48,210
Speaker 18: Yeah.

3680
03:20:48,230 --> 03:20:48,330
Speaker 14: Yeah.

3681
03:20:51,410 --> 03:20:53,470
Speaker 6: Oh, I got a headless horseman costume for my dog.

3682
03:20:53,629 --> 03:20:56,110
Speaker 6: That's perfect. I'm just going to wear one of my

3683
03:20:56,230 --> 03:21:00,129
Speaker 6: onesies like I always do. Anyway, that's what I got

3684
03:21:00,170 --> 03:21:02,590
Speaker 6: for this week. I have a bunch of other podcasts,

3685
03:21:02,650 --> 03:21:04,150
Speaker 6: ones called Cool People Did Cool Stuff, where I talk

3686
03:21:04,170 --> 03:21:06,330
Speaker 6: about history, except I also sometimes talk about modern revolt.

3687
03:21:06,709 --> 03:21:09,330
Speaker 6: I actually talk slightly less fast on that. And I

3688
03:21:09,379 --> 03:21:10,849
Speaker 6: also do Cools on Media Book Club, which you probably

3689
03:21:10,879 --> 03:21:12,800
Speaker 6: know because it's in the same feed as this particular show.

3690
03:21:13,120 --> 03:21:16,100
Speaker 6: But also, on Halloween this very year, I have a

3691
03:21:16,140 --> 03:21:20,180
Speaker 6: spooky collection of short stories called The Folktales of Lolan Sakaan.

3692
03:21:20,540 --> 03:21:23,760
Speaker 6: that comes out from tangled wilderness.org from strangers in the

3693
03:21:23,780 --> 03:21:26,490
Speaker 6: tangled wilderness. And it is only six bucks and it

3694
03:21:26,530 --> 03:21:28,730
Speaker 6: is the most beautiful zine. And it has five of

3695
03:21:28,770 --> 03:21:31,470
Speaker 6: my stories in it and you should pre-order it because

3696
03:21:31,530 --> 03:21:32,769
Speaker 6: pre-orders are awesome.

3697
03:21:32,890 --> 03:21:33,190
Speaker 7: Oh yeah.

3698
03:21:33,350 --> 03:21:34,950
Speaker 6: And if you like my fiction, which you have no

3699
03:21:34,990 --> 03:21:36,609
Speaker 6: way of knowing if you do, cause I didn't say

3700
03:21:36,650 --> 03:21:39,630
Speaker 6: anything fictional. I told you about some other stuff. I

3701
03:21:39,850 --> 03:21:41,090
Speaker 6: am need to eat. I'm done.

3702
03:21:41,110 --> 03:21:42,250
Speaker 18: Okay.

3703
03:21:42,950 --> 03:21:43,270
Speaker 6: Magic.

3704
03:21:43,450 --> 03:21:45,410
Speaker 16: If you're listening on the day this comes out, I'm

3705
03:21:45,430 --> 03:21:48,449
Speaker 16: doing a book talk in San Diego on Sunday at,

3706
03:21:49,510 --> 03:21:52,870
Speaker 16: the Garden Center in Mission Hills through the Fall Bookshop

3707
03:21:52,990 --> 03:21:55,190
Speaker 16: is what the place is called. If you would like

3708
03:21:55,209 --> 03:21:59,660
Speaker 16: to email us with a news tip, coolzontips at proton.me.

3709
03:22:00,010 --> 03:22:03,519
Speaker 6: Some of you marketing people still trying. Admire the tenacity.

3710
03:22:03,700 --> 03:22:04,340
Speaker 6: Not going to work.

3711
03:22:06,200 --> 03:22:08,200
Speaker 7: Put a trans girl on your spooky couch.

3712
03:22:08,320 --> 03:22:08,720
Speaker 6: I don't know.

3713
03:22:10,300 --> 03:22:15,480
Speaker 10: We reported the mostly scary but not always scary news.

3714
03:22:16,180 --> 03:22:16,840
Speaker 15: Woo!

3715
03:22:17,000 --> 03:22:17,070
Speaker 10: Woo!

3716
03:22:19,810 --> 03:22:23,190
Speaker 6: Be reported the news.

3717
03:22:26,379 --> 03:22:29,500
Speaker 2: Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

3718
03:22:29,580 --> 03:22:31,420
Speaker 2: from now until the heat death of the universe.

3719
03:22:32,280 --> 03:22:34,740
Speaker 18: It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media.

3720
03:22:34,920 --> 03:22:39,300
Speaker 18: For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com,

3721
03:22:39,740 --> 03:22:42,540
Speaker 18: or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

3722
03:22:42,900 --> 03:22:45,700
Speaker 18: or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find

3723
03:22:45,760 --> 03:22:48,670
Speaker 18: sources for It Could Happen Here listed directly in episode descriptions.

3724
03:22:49,170 --> 03:22:49,870
Speaker 6: Thanks for listening.