1
00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:13,320
Speaker 1: This is me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely

2
00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:18,599
Speaker 1: bug bitten in my case, underwear listening podcast. You can't

3
00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,680
Speaker 1: predict anything presented by on X. Hunt creators are the

4
00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,479
Speaker 1: most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt

5
00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,600
Speaker 1: app from the iTunes or Google play store. Nor where

6
00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:37,240
Speaker 1: you stand with on X All. Right, before we even

7
00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,240
Speaker 1: get to our guests, we need to do to show

8
00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:41,680
Speaker 1: and tell pizzas Cran, do you want to do show

9
00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:47,160
Speaker 1: and tell? First? Sure? Okay, explain what you made, um

10
00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:53,320
Speaker 1: so from from a duck that was shot the other week. Um,

11
00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:57,880
Speaker 1: I just decided to make a pair of earrings. So

12
00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:02,000
Speaker 1: I it's very simple, very simple, very simple. So just

13
00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:09,240
Speaker 1: these bright orange feet off the mallard and quick. Yeah. Sure.

14
00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,360
Speaker 1: So it's a bright orange mallard foot hasn't even dried

15
00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,320
Speaker 1: out yet. You can sew it back onto your duck

16
00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:23,520
Speaker 1: and he'd walk away. And I just put some stainless

17
00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,520
Speaker 1: steel steel wire around it to like kind of hold

18
00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:32,600
Speaker 1: the ankle and made it like a little earring. Oh dude,

19
00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,679
Speaker 1: that makes a statement, man, I don't know what statement

20
00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:39,920
Speaker 1: it makes. It's beautiful. Krin was pointing out that people

21
00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:43,840
Speaker 1: get upset did they feel like it's better just to

22
00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,560
Speaker 1: throw out the garbage? Apparently? Yeah, right, I mean it's

23
00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:48,520
Speaker 1: better to throw out the trash than to put it

24
00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:53,440
Speaker 1: as earring, right, Like it feels disrespectful that you're you know,

25
00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:57,800
Speaker 1: it's a detached foot. Whoever has that sentiment would have

26
00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:02,360
Speaker 1: had a hell of a time with planes. Indians being

27
00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,120
Speaker 1: their whole get up was made out of animals, extremely

28
00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,000
Speaker 1: upsetting to them. So it's like, if you're going to

29
00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,400
Speaker 1: save the feet for stock and boil them in a pot,

30
00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:19,720
Speaker 1: you know, like in a pulse apocalyptic scenario, everybody's starving,

31
00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:24,760
Speaker 1: death crens Like, right, she takes her earrings off, makes

32
00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:28,920
Speaker 1: a little a bit of stock, and everybody's fine. So

33
00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,160
Speaker 1: are you going to go into this? Do you think? Yeah?

34
00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:33,880
Speaker 1: I mean I love I love making stuff, you know,

35
00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,760
Speaker 1: I love using my hands, and I'm paint a lot.

36
00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:39,240
Speaker 1: I haven't done that and while I used to do

37
00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,919
Speaker 1: a lot of ceramic, so um yeah, um all, maybe

38
00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,520
Speaker 1: we'll come up with a line of ear rings and

39
00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,440
Speaker 1: rings and you can get around um you know, like

40
00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,840
Speaker 1: you can't barter in trade for wild game meat, but

41
00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:58,440
Speaker 1: you could even probably go on Etsy and sell your

42
00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:04,400
Speaker 1: wares or like you for for any future we neither

43
00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:09,200
Speaker 1: giveaways or fundraising. You know, there can be a pair

44
00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:13,800
Speaker 1: of something, pair of earrings, or something in that collection

45
00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,200
Speaker 1: of the gift items. Me and Seth to thinking about

46
00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,000
Speaker 1: set doesn't know about this, but me and never thinking

47
00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:23,000
Speaker 1: about raising a lot of money with beaver pelts, I

48
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:24,960
Speaker 1: got a path to raise a lot of money for

49
00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:29,239
Speaker 1: our land Access initiative through beaver pelts. Extremely high priced

50
00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:33,760
Speaker 1: beaver pelts. I was thinking about that too, extremely high

51
00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:40,320
Speaker 1: priced bea repels. They come a little certificate signed, and

52
00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:42,160
Speaker 1: a pair of flip flops, and a pair of flip

53
00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:46,280
Speaker 1: flops comes with every repelled uh. And then now Seth

54
00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:50,200
Speaker 1: through your show and tell um. This past week, I

55
00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:55,880
Speaker 1: was at deer camp in eastern Montana, and Um, I

56
00:03:55,920 --> 00:04:00,280
Speaker 1: stumbled upon a chunk of bone sticking out of a bank.

57
00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,280
Speaker 1: It wasn't a cut bank. It was just like a

58
00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,280
Speaker 1: little rolling shoulder that fell down into a little dried

59
00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:11,119
Speaker 1: up creek bottom. And um, I don't fully understand that

60
00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,440
Speaker 1: when you say that, well, you know most people like well,

61
00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,200
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say most people. A lot of times people

62
00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,760
Speaker 1: find bison skulls in cut banks, like sticking out of

63
00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,760
Speaker 1: a cut bank. This was just like in the grass

64
00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:26,760
Speaker 1: you know there it was fully vegetated where where I

65
00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:31,200
Speaker 1: found this, and um, it was just so no erosion,

66
00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,839
Speaker 1: nothing had fell away, no erosion at all. I just

67
00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,440
Speaker 1: happened to see a chunk of bones sticking out of

68
00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,160
Speaker 1: like the grass, and I just started started digging and

69
00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,479
Speaker 1: uncovered The first one I found was not in a

70
00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:49,480
Speaker 1: cut bank. It wasn't anything eroded, which I think, I

71
00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:53,400
Speaker 1: don't know. I think it's cool and you got it's

72
00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:57,119
Speaker 1: a youngster, um I was. I was in a hurry

73
00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,960
Speaker 1: when I was digging it out because my girlfriend Kelsey

74
00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,080
Speaker 1: had just shot a mule deer and I was, um

75
00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,320
Speaker 1: I did. I had to walk like two miles back

76
00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,040
Speaker 1: to the vehicle to go get the vehicle to bring it.

77
00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,160
Speaker 1: There was like a another road that would ended up

78
00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,920
Speaker 1: being way closer, So I went got the vehicle and

79
00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,400
Speaker 1: brought it around and made the back out like it said,

80
00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,240
Speaker 1: up two miles like five yards. So I was going

81
00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,400
Speaker 1: to do that, and in in the process of doing

82
00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,680
Speaker 1: that is when I found this skull. And I was

83
00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:28,279
Speaker 1: trying to be quick digging it out of the bank

84
00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,880
Speaker 1: and ended up breaking some pieces off of it. But

85
00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:35,400
Speaker 1: it was very fragile. Um. I don't know what's going on,

86
00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,839
Speaker 1: but something with the cosmos. Were a lot of you

87
00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:43,240
Speaker 1: know right now in in Siberia and in in Arctic Alaska.

88
00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:45,159
Speaker 1: There's all this stuff coming out of the perma frost

89
00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:49,680
Speaker 1: right now because the exceedingly warm summers, like mammos and

90
00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,120
Speaker 1: dogs and all manner jump. I know, I want to

91
00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:56,600
Speaker 1: go over there and poke around. Um field trip. There's

92
00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:58,960
Speaker 1: a lot of I feel like there's something in the cosmos.

93
00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,000
Speaker 1: It's not climate related, but there's just a lot of

94
00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:06,760
Speaker 1: buffalo skulls right now. Because I had found one in

95
00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,320
Speaker 1: I don't know, man late nineties and it didn't find

96
00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:18,599
Speaker 1: one for forever. And last year found two. One was

97
00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:24,000
Speaker 1: full of crayfish, had been colonized by crayfish. Yeah. Um,

98
00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,200
Speaker 1: then found a chunk like this chunk right here, and

99
00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:33,680
Speaker 1: then my brother found a couple found one. Everyone's fine.

100
00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:36,320
Speaker 1: Everybody's been fine. I know, multiple dudes have found him

101
00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,120
Speaker 1: this year. I got there's so many coming out right now.

102
00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,160
Speaker 1: If something isn't the cosmos. I got a friend over

103
00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,520
Speaker 1: Missoula that found one and didn't even pick it up.

104
00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:49,359
Speaker 1: He sent me a photo. It was level with it

105
00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,479
Speaker 1: was in a gravel bar. It looked like it was

106
00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,679
Speaker 1: on display in a gravel bar, Like it was like level,

107
00:06:56,720 --> 00:06:59,320
Speaker 1: like you could have walked across it in a gravel bar,

108
00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,760
Speaker 1: but just like there in the gravel bar. Oh, we

109
00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,719
Speaker 1: found another one earlier. Um it was later in the

110
00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,640
Speaker 1: summer that someone we were floating the river and someone

111
00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,160
Speaker 1: had picked it up and said it like, made a

112
00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,240
Speaker 1: little Karen. That's what I'm thinking of, made a little

113
00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:19,920
Speaker 1: Karen and set it on top of Karen. What whatever

114
00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:24,360
Speaker 1: you've been stearn Karen cairn cairn. It's hard to say

115
00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,440
Speaker 1: that word. C A I r n made a cairn

116
00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,600
Speaker 1: and set it on top I don't know if they

117
00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:32,720
Speaker 1: knew what it was or didn't know what it was. Well,

118
00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,040
Speaker 1: if they, yeah, I mean they did like a symbolic thing.

119
00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:37,880
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just I just pictured a bunch

120
00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,239
Speaker 1: of kids playing down by the river and they found

121
00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,840
Speaker 1: this thing. And you didn't You didn't remember you thought

122
00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,920
Speaker 1: that you felt that it had been corrupted and spoiled. Yes,

123
00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,600
Speaker 1: by the touch of man. Yeah, it wasn't cool. It

124
00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,280
Speaker 1: was cool, but it wasn't It wasn't like this one

125
00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,200
Speaker 1: where I found it, dug it out of the earth

126
00:07:54,800 --> 00:08:00,440
Speaker 1: that one had already been touched. Okay, now to our guests, Rick,

127
00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:05,960
Speaker 1: Mattenee Mattenie Mannie spelled like mattenee. No, not like mattenee,

128
00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:14,000
Speaker 1: not like a movie mattee Mattenee mattnee e n e. No, mate,

129
00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,880
Speaker 1: I'm saying, that's a what's the when you go to

130
00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:24,520
Speaker 1: a movie that mattee mattee. That's right, that's probably just

131
00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:26,400
Speaker 1: tell us how you spell your name m A d

132
00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,760
Speaker 1: n e Y m A t n e y and

133
00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:37,640
Speaker 1: his father Mike, Yes, same last name. Yes, um, Rick,

134
00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,520
Speaker 1: you were asking about my special anchor you made me. Yeah.

135
00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:43,600
Speaker 1: Can you describe real quick how you make anchors. Well,

136
00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:47,000
Speaker 1: I take a four inch steel pipe and fill it

137
00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:49,320
Speaker 1: full of lead, and well bolts around the outside like

138
00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,520
Speaker 1: a Mahler anchlor, except for the all steel ones clank reeloud.

139
00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,920
Speaker 1: If you fill them with leadther a lot quieter. So

140
00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,480
Speaker 1: I built any one, and I asked you about it

141
00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,079
Speaker 1: when we came in here, and there's a story about Okay,

142
00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:08,679
Speaker 1: so here's what happened. One. I love that anchor. Uh It.

143
00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:11,320
Speaker 1: I had a compartment on one of my boats that

144
00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:17,280
Speaker 1: wouldn't fit into so I took uh I took um

145
00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:23,280
Speaker 1: bands off and shortened the bolts so that it would

146
00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:28,800
Speaker 1: fit in a compartment down the little nubbins. Oh well, well,

147
00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,839
Speaker 1: now I don't put in that compartment anymore. I could

148
00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,600
Speaker 1: just left it as it was, so now you need

149
00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,679
Speaker 1: another anchor. It works great, But like I just messed.

150
00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,280
Speaker 1: It was just one of those stupid things that happens. Yeah,

151
00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,840
Speaker 1: I feel terrible about it. It's okay, I got like

152
00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,960
Speaker 1: eight more in the garage right now. When you're um,

153
00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,480
Speaker 1: when you're melting all that lead, do you take precautions? No?

154
00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,280
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. Just get a buzz and yeah, I just

155
00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:58,559
Speaker 1: get the torch, grab that bush lighting uh rick. Tell

156
00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,319
Speaker 1: people about the all the ways you kind of make

157
00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,719
Speaker 1: ends meet. Um Well, I have an outfitting business here

158
00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:06,840
Speaker 1: in the state of Montana. UM I run a Steelhead

159
00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,959
Speaker 1: lodge out of Southeast Alaska, a guide for a private

160
00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,080
Speaker 1: ranch down in Hawaii, as well as doing some bone

161
00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,000
Speaker 1: fish guiding on Oahu and Hawaii. I do a little

162
00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,280
Speaker 1: bit of cooking for you guys here at Meat Eater. UM.

163
00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,040
Speaker 1: I also do some in home wild game cooking classes

164
00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,400
Speaker 1: as well. On the side, UM I have rental properties

165
00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:30,199
Speaker 1: in town. My job list is extreme, very outdoor focused

166
00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,319
Speaker 1: irrigation company that I was part partner in and now

167
00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,120
Speaker 1: I've actually got out of that finally, hopefully so that

168
00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,000
Speaker 1: I can get a little bit more into the rest

169
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,920
Speaker 1: of the stuff. Can you. Uh so fish and bone

170
00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:48,560
Speaker 1: fish in Hawaii is it? Oh? What what's the word? Yeah? Oh?

171
00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:55,040
Speaker 1: I oh um. While in our neck of the woods,

172
00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,520
Speaker 1: you know, they're not really regarded as not When I

173
00:10:58,559 --> 00:10:59,679
Speaker 1: say our neck of the wood, I mean like in

174
00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,520
Speaker 1: our atmosphere or whatever. Um, like when you go down

175
00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,360
Speaker 1: to the Caribbean and stuff Ascension Bay. Yeah, they're not

176
00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:11,079
Speaker 1: really regarded as people eat them, but they're not by

177
00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,520
Speaker 1: most people of fish from there, not like regarded as

178
00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:17,280
Speaker 1: a food fish. But why it's like they have a

179
00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:21,280
Speaker 1: completely reception of them, right. Yeah. There's yeah, pounded fish cakes, uh,

180
00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,439
Speaker 1: fish soup out of them. Yeah, that's uh, the locals

181
00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,160
Speaker 1: really like eating them. Um. You know, I think America,

182
00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:29,560
Speaker 1: United States is the only place you can left you

183
00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,240
Speaker 1: can still kill a bone fish. They're protected everywhere else

184
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:36,200
Speaker 1: but Florida, Hawaii. You can still kill them there. Um.

185
00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,079
Speaker 1: I don't advocate for that, you know, but my brother

186
00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:40,800
Speaker 1: caught one in Hawaii one time. I think he said

187
00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,440
Speaker 1: he's nine ft of water and caught a far bigger

188
00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,560
Speaker 1: bone fish, and he'd ever caught fish and bone fish

189
00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,840
Speaker 1: on purpose. Yeah, yeah, and they're we're they're a deep

190
00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,120
Speaker 1: water bone fish. They come up onto the flats to feed.

191
00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:55,680
Speaker 1: And there's so many pancake flats around um the islands

192
00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:59,000
Speaker 1: of Hawaii that there's very little flat habitat form, so

193
00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,079
Speaker 1: most of them are deep water fish. I mean you'll

194
00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,080
Speaker 1: see videos of them schooling, you know, in sixty ft

195
00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,400
Speaker 1: of water, and there's just schools, hundreds of them, and

196
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:08,000
Speaker 1: you know, you go up on the flat and there's four,

197
00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,439
Speaker 1: but it's the same species, um, I think. So yeah.

198
00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,400
Speaker 1: I mean there's guys that argue that the Hawaiian bone

199
00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,960
Speaker 1: fish are in the Pacific uh Ocean bone fish are

200
00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,280
Speaker 1: a little bit different than the Atlantic cousins. You know,

201
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,480
Speaker 1: they're kind of a deep water bone fish. There are

202
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,400
Speaker 1: what's called the sharp jaw bone fish, which I think

203
00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,079
Speaker 1: they're gonna classify that one is a different species. And

204
00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,720
Speaker 1: Hawaii has both the Pacific bone fish and the sharp

205
00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,600
Speaker 1: sharp job bone fish, and so I think they do

206
00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:33,800
Speaker 1: classify that one is a different one, but you know,

207
00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:35,960
Speaker 1: you can noticeably tell the difference when you catch one

208
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:40,040
Speaker 1: of those versus the regular ones, who, um, what kind

209
00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,559
Speaker 1: of people? Like? Who are your clients? Not Hawaiians? No? No,

210
00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:45,160
Speaker 1: for the most part there and there's a couple of

211
00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,000
Speaker 1: local guys that that I go out with quite a bit,

212
00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:48,400
Speaker 1: but a lot of them are my clients that I

213
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:52,240
Speaker 1: roll over from either my Alaska operation or my Montana operation.

214
00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:54,040
Speaker 1: And they're like, hey, you know, what are you doing

215
00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:55,800
Speaker 1: in January? And I was like, well, funny you ask

216
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:57,920
Speaker 1: him downe in Hawaii guiding bone fish. It's like, oh, man,

217
00:12:57,960 --> 00:12:59,640
Speaker 1: I'd really like to do that. They're really big, they're

218
00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:01,280
Speaker 1: hard to edge. And it's like, yeah, well here you go.

219
00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:03,720
Speaker 1: You guys go out and site fish form. Yeah, it's

220
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:05,920
Speaker 1: all site fishing form on the flats. Um. We do

221
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,160
Speaker 1: get out of the boat sometimes depending on the tides

222
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,520
Speaker 1: um when the tailing tides are right. We try to

223
00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:12,720
Speaker 1: do it on foot as much as possible because that's

224
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,520
Speaker 1: the hunt, that's the fun one, that's more fun than

225
00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,040
Speaker 1: doing it out of the boat. The problem with the

226
00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,240
Speaker 1: boat is is most clients and most guys can't spot

227
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,720
Speaker 1: them far enough out to make an effective cast before

228
00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,480
Speaker 1: we spook them. So it's it's a hard, so you're

229
00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,680
Speaker 1: just stuck saying like eleven o'clock, eleven o'clock fifty feet,

230
00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:31,880
Speaker 1: you know, and if your guy can do it perfectly, yeah,

231
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:33,400
Speaker 1: you'll catch a few of them doing it that way

232
00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,360
Speaker 1: for sure. But we have a lot better luck doing

233
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,600
Speaker 1: it on foot, you know, low and slow. The slower

234
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:39,400
Speaker 1: you move. If you move your leg fast enough to

235
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,520
Speaker 1: where the water, the water makes a tiny bit of

236
00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:44,319
Speaker 1: a ripple noise, fish will spook from a hundred feet away,

237
00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,120
Speaker 1: so you have to go. So dudes, are they scared

238
00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:50,880
Speaker 1: of sharks and stuff? They're scared of everything. Everything wants

239
00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,080
Speaker 1: to kill them. I've seen fifty pound gt s turned

240
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,840
Speaker 1: sideways on the flats and chase ten pound bone fish

241
00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,000
Speaker 1: try to eat them. You know, there's tiger sharks in

242
00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,040
Speaker 1: the bay a hundred feet away. You know, it's everything

243
00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:02,960
Speaker 1: wants to eat them. You know. On top of that,

244
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:04,839
Speaker 1: they get fished to every single day. When I first

245
00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,000
Speaker 1: started guiding down there a little over twelve years ago,

246
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,199
Speaker 1: you never saw anyone bone fishing, And now every single

247
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,400
Speaker 1: day there's someone on every flat for the most part.

248
00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:14,920
Speaker 1: So it took off in the amount of pressure they

249
00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:16,520
Speaker 1: see is and their old fish, you know, they're a

250
00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:18,840
Speaker 1: big bone fish will be twenty years old, and so

251
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,080
Speaker 1: you're gonna educate a fish like that that's been around

252
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,160
Speaker 1: the block. He's gonna know the drill. So you need

253
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:25,880
Speaker 1: to be better than the next guy to get them.

254
00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,280
Speaker 1: And they're extremely hard to catch. Um, they're they're not

255
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,680
Speaker 1: that hard to get to eat as long as you

256
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,160
Speaker 1: can get to them without spooking. And they're neurotic. Sometimes

257
00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,520
Speaker 1: they eat, you know, without no when you're there, they

258
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,160
Speaker 1: don't even care. And other times you can't buy a

259
00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,520
Speaker 1: bite no matter what you do. Um, have you ever

260
00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,960
Speaker 1: hunted sandhill cranes? Have? Yeah, we're hunting sand hill cranes

261
00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,600
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago in the Texas Panhandle and

262
00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:53,720
Speaker 1: they're like exceedingly decoy shy down there. They just see

263
00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:58,240
Speaker 1: spreads all day every day and Discuyer hunting with skins

264
00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,760
Speaker 1: all his sandhills and mates the zombie decoys where he

265
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,280
Speaker 1: makes a frame it actually puts an actual sandhill skin

266
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:11,160
Speaker 1: over it, and we're kind of like marveling at sort

267
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,400
Speaker 1: of like how wary they are. But then we had

268
00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:17,040
Speaker 1: one that was wearing a band. It had been banded

269
00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:21,480
Speaker 1: as an adult seventeen years earlier. You imagine the amount

270
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:25,040
Speaker 1: of spreads that things looked AT's in seventeen years. What's

271
00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:29,360
Speaker 1: the average life span those things? Those things get way

272
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,480
Speaker 1: older than I thought older and mallards. I mean, you know,

273
00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:34,280
Speaker 1: a lot of birds can live a long time, but

274
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,680
Speaker 1: I think it's common to have sand hills. Uh, you know,

275
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,960
Speaker 1: make it to be over a decade and you imagine. Yeah,

276
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:43,840
Speaker 1: so you talked about a twenty year old bone fish,

277
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,080
Speaker 1: just like he's up on those flats every day eating.

278
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:53,960
Speaker 1: After a while, he knows your name, you know that dude.

279
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,240
Speaker 1: There there's one fish they called bones Zilla. Um, he's

280
00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,320
Speaker 1: been caught three or four times now. She would say,

281
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,200
Speaker 1: it's probably last thing. I think it's thirteen point seven

282
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,800
Speaker 1: pounds last time I got caught. I think LG caught

283
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,560
Speaker 1: him last time. But it's in the same spot. She

284
00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,400
Speaker 1: lives in the same spot during the same tide. You

285
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,840
Speaker 1: can go there like clockwork and find that fish. Really yeah,

286
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,920
Speaker 1: and it's it's unbelievable how how they pattern I mean,

287
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:17,760
Speaker 1: there might as well be a white tailed deer. They

288
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,800
Speaker 1: do the same thing every day, you know, unless they

289
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,040
Speaker 1: you don't often think of fish like that. Yeah. Hunting,

290
00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:27,520
Speaker 1: especially like an open and like an ocean environment, you

291
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:29,520
Speaker 1: don't think of a fish as being like, here's what

292
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,440
Speaker 1: his deal is. Yeah, here's what he does or she Yeah,

293
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:34,600
Speaker 1: it's it's it's funny because and you know you'll have

294
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,200
Speaker 1: new fish come out of the flats and do this

295
00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,640
Speaker 1: and that. But I mean there's definitely a pattern, and

296
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,680
Speaker 1: the older fish typically do the same thing. I mean

297
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,720
Speaker 1: they have a thing they want to do, and during

298
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:47,080
Speaker 1: the right tide and you know, the right conditions, they

299
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,640
Speaker 1: do that thing. You know, repeatedly. You can see him

300
00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:53,320
Speaker 1: do that month in month out. All right, Mike, tell

301
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,320
Speaker 1: us what you do you guys that you guys are like, uh,

302
00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:00,240
Speaker 1: you guys have interesting groove. Well, I've I'm retired at

303
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,200
Speaker 1: this point, and I've spent my entire life trapping in

304
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,840
Speaker 1: my off season of working, and the had an excavation

305
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:11,640
Speaker 1: business for twenty five years and freed up my winter time,

306
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,480
Speaker 1: so my kids didn't see much of me during the summertime.

307
00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:16,640
Speaker 1: You know, it was just our winter times are off,

308
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,640
Speaker 1: so our winter times was trapping. What age you start trapping?

309
00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:23,520
Speaker 1: I started about twelve years old, and I think Rick

310
00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,840
Speaker 1: was younger than that. So, uh, do the math for

311
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:32,560
Speaker 1: me real quick. And explain what what year you would

312
00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,320
Speaker 1: have started. I want to put a relationship to the

313
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:40,600
Speaker 1: big fur boom. You just started during the during boom, yeah,

314
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,840
Speaker 1: eight before the before sixty eight when I probably started

315
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:52,920
Speaker 1: trapping six northeastern Washington North spoken about eighty miles and uh,

316
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:57,240
Speaker 1: what like what drew you into it being a fur trapper? Well,

317
00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,680
Speaker 1: just the outdoor experience. I guess I just love the

318
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:04,119
Speaker 1: outdo oars and so um. My father had trapped a

319
00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,000
Speaker 1: little bit, but very little, and he helped me get

320
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:09,680
Speaker 1: me around. I mean my mother also drove me from

321
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,879
Speaker 1: place to place. Uh, for when I was trapping. I

322
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:15,600
Speaker 1: remember when I was a little kid, we used to

323
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,679
Speaker 1: make my mom drive around and like sit in the

324
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,480
Speaker 1: car while you run down into some cattail marsh and

325
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,879
Speaker 1: then drive to the next spot. You know, It's like

326
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,320
Speaker 1: it's like being a soccer mob but being a muskrat. Mom,

327
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:33,800
Speaker 1: what we make that famous? What did you like? What

328
00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:37,000
Speaker 1: did you start out for back then? Mainly beaver At

329
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:42,199
Speaker 1: that time, beaver was probably the more valuable pelt. And

330
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,920
Speaker 1: were you um lay out the economics of it back

331
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,520
Speaker 1: then in the sixties, like was it good? It's a

332
00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,199
Speaker 1: whole lot better than it is now. Um, you know,

333
00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,720
Speaker 1: actually you could, you could make a decent UH living

334
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,399
Speaker 1: during the winter months trapping. At that time. You know,

335
00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,480
Speaker 1: the average worker, just like the saw mill workers there

336
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,960
Speaker 1: were making thirty dollars a day, and so beaver was

337
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,679
Speaker 1: worth an average of thirty dollars I remember, no, probably

338
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:14,720
Speaker 1: about probably sixty nine somewhere in there. Um, I remember

339
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,320
Speaker 1: I caught nineteen beaver on opening day, which was basically

340
00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:21,480
Speaker 1: a month's wage as of a working man. And here

341
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:25,880
Speaker 1: I'm twelve year thirteen years old, so kid man. So

342
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,960
Speaker 1: I actually when I turned sixteen, I bought a brand

343
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,680
Speaker 1: new I ordered a four wheel drive pickup. Of course

344
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:34,960
Speaker 1: I put my father ordered because I couldn't put it

345
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,800
Speaker 1: in my name at sixteen. But um, but I had

346
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,760
Speaker 1: the money that I made from trapping to buy a

347
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:47,360
Speaker 1: brand new UH for four wheel drive pickup at dead age. Yeah.

348
00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,000
Speaker 1: So in comparison, and now, I mean, you couldn't trap

349
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,280
Speaker 1: enough beaver to buy a brand new Ford pickup. No,

350
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,400
Speaker 1: you can't trap enough to put gas in that Ford

351
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:04,440
Speaker 1: pick direct a bicycle. Well, the playing me and Seth

352
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,560
Speaker 1: they're hatched, And well I've explained for what I was

353
00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:10,520
Speaker 1: gonna talk about. The rule. The law is gonna make

354
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,920
Speaker 1: the only a law that says only me and Seth

355
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,080
Speaker 1: can trap beavers, but they're worth a thousand dollars apiece

356
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:29,879
Speaker 1: a federal law. I don't know if you're gonna get Um,

357
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,639
Speaker 1: you could probably do that with sea otter. Yeah, I

358
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,800
Speaker 1: think you probably could. There's a limited hall on those.

359
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 1: So oh yes, I want to talk about you. I

360
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,720
Speaker 1: do follow that, like the sea otter stuff a little bit,

361
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,400
Speaker 1: quite a bit, because I want to get to that later.

362
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 1: Let me make a note of that. Um that, so

363
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:55,840
Speaker 1: I know, like Native Alaskans can hunt sea otters. No

364
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,960
Speaker 1: one traps sea otters, do they they hunt sea otters.

365
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 1: They can sell them only under the condition that they

366
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:06,640
Speaker 1: make it into a handicraft has to be substantially altered.

367
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 1: Altered is the word. But sea otters, as they come

368
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 1: back so strong, some argue more than ever had ever been,

369
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:24,240
Speaker 1: are destroying the red urchin. They're destroying everything because it's

370
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 1: all tied together. And so there's a push to make

371
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 1: it to incentivize people to go after sea otters. There's

372
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 1: a push correct to reduce the restrictions so that people

373
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,920
Speaker 1: could actually sell nonaltered sea otters correct, that's what the

374
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 1: statement of uh. That's his last attempt that they actually

375
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 1: failed at, but was to allow the natives to sell

376
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 1: just sea otter hides. I was attempting to try to

377
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 1: buy them in the round so I could personally skin

378
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 1: them in that too. But sea otters their value is,

379
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,479
Speaker 1: you know, somewhere around with thousand dollars apiece. For me

380
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 1: to make product out of it, that's to make product.

381
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,520
Speaker 1: But but you're not allowed. I can't, I can't physically

382
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 1: touch it. The rules changed. If the rules changed, and

383
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 1: the natives I think would harvest a lot more, but

384
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 1: I still don't think they would harvest enough to make

385
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 1: a substantial difference. You remember the carrying capacity in Southeast

386
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 1: Alaska during the UM seventy three when they did the

387
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 1: marine Marine Mamelak determined that twenty thousand was carrying capacity.

388
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:36,119
Speaker 1: We currently have over fifty thou so over two times

389
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 1: the carrying capacity. So they've just they're basically eating themselves

390
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 1: out of house and home. The interesting thing is that

391
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,879
Speaker 1: people that are trying to protect the sea otters are

392
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 1: actually the ones that are killing all of them, you know,

393
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 1: as they start basically destroy the habitat to where they'll

394
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 1: completely die out. It's funny. This is such like a

395
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 1: recurring theme I just saw. It's such a recurring theme around.

396
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 1: This is a real rabbit hole. I want to get

397
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: back to the sixties. Put all, we're gonna put all

398
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 1: this hold, but I want to open up the rabbit

399
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 1: hole real quick, or like peer into the rabbit hole.

400
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 1: Whenever we're dealing with an imperiled species, it enters a

401
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:19,440
Speaker 1: mind space with Americans. Okay, like wolves in the seventies.

402
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 1: It enters a mind space with Americans where you're like,

403
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 1: this thing is imperiled. There aren't many left. And we

404
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 1: get to a point where we're like, we will forever

405
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 1: envisioned it that way. You know. It's like you get

406
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 1: in your head that the rarity of something, and it

407
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 1: doesn't you know, we don't allow culturally, we don't have

408
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 1: the elasticity in our brains to picture that someday will

409
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 1: reverse the trend. It always feels scarce. So when we

410
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,639
Speaker 1: were low on sea otters and we put protections in

411
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 1: place to recover sea otters, it's like sea otters entered

412
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:59,240
Speaker 1: like a permanent status in our brains as being imperiled

413
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: without opening up the idea that we would someday hit recovery.

414
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 1: That's why when you hit these recovery thresholds, it's like

415
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,880
Speaker 1: it never happened with wolves too. We hit the recovery

416
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 1: threshold with grizzy bears. In certain areas, we hit the

417
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: recovery thresholds, and people are like, yeah, we hit the

418
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 1: recovery thresholds, but screw that. We don't want anyone to

419
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,199
Speaker 1: ever touch them ever again, because they're used to not

420
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 1: be that many. Oddly, it didn't happen with elk or

421
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: turkeys or deer. You know, we bought ran out of elk.

422
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 1: No one has a problem switching the mind frame. So

423
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 1: I guess that's an exception to my own rule. But

424
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 1: some things like sea otters, people are never going to

425
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: get comfortable with the fact that there's a bunch of them. Well,

426
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 1: the native tribes up in Alaska, we're not nomadic so

427
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: much so some of the mittens, the dump sites, they

428
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 1: have hundreds and hundreds of years, and my understanding is

429
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: that when they've digged through these mittens, that there's a

430
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: hundred years where they have clamshells and hundred years where

431
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 1: they do not have clams So meaning the natural cycle

432
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: to the seat. You know, like every other animal goes

433
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 1: in cycles. You know, if they're left alone, they will

434
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,360
Speaker 1: populate up and then just eat themselves out of house

435
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: and home and then start all over again. That's what

436
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: we're seeing. And what we're seeing now is we've exceeded

437
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 1: the carrying capacity and they will die off and then

438
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 1: they will slowly go back the other direction. But it

439
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,880
Speaker 1: appears to be a hundred year cycles from how big

440
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: is one of those things to three times the size

441
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: of a river otter um sixty seventy pounds of our

442
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 1: big ones. And when the Russians used to, you know,

443
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 1: like the Russians used to come into Alaskan waters, like

444
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: way back in the old days, they were after sea otters,

445
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: buying seattters back then, like people didn't trap sea otters,

446
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: they always just hunted them. Correct. Well, you gotta remember

447
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 1: a sea otters born in the water and he never

448
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 1: leaves the water, and because of that, their prime year

449
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: real because they're in I didn't know that. Yeah, they're

450
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: like most fur bearers you consider only harvest in the

451
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 1: winter months. Doesn't make any difference to uh sea outter

452
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 1: because they're in the same same environments very a little

453
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 1: difference between a summer sea out and the winter uh

454
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: in the quality of the fur. Yeah, all right, we'll

455
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:22,959
Speaker 1: get back into all that stuff. I want to get

456
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: back into the sixties. My understanding of like the fur boom,

457
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 1: Like I started trapping right when the fur boom ended. Okay,

458
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: so we set our first muskrat traps in four It

459
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 1: was so good, but it wasn't as good. Can you

460
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: explain what happened with fur prices? And maybe you probably

461
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 1: have a more detailed understanding of this. Can you explain

462
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: what happened to wild fur prices in this this sort

463
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: of like magic block And maybe my dates are wrong,

464
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: but like from seventy eight to two, people were quitting

465
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: factory jobs in order to trap in the long winter.

466
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: I know that in the case of the coyotes, there

467
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: were people that have bought airplanes in the high line

468
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 1: up here in Montana, and they made more money during

469
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: the evenings killing coyotes and they did in their job. Well,

470
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: Like what was happening those years? Do you understand from

471
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: a market perspective, like why did wild why did like

472
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: all wild fur all of a sudden gets super valuable.

473
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 1: I don't know that all wild furre did. I don't

474
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 1: know if i'd agree with that. It's long, long haired

475
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: fur became more popular, and beaver didn't greatly increase. It

476
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 1: was the long furs and seventy three four or five

477
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: in that area there when the coyotes really took off you,

478
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: And that was just a fashion trend, I think, more

479
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 1: than anything else. But for perspective, I remember, like around

480
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: the time when I became exposed to it, it was

481
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: very common for red fox to sell. Like in the

482
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 1: late seventies early eighties, it was very common for red

483
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 1: fox where I grew up to be where seventy five

484
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: it was common for mink to be worth fifty bucks.

485
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 1: Beavers you'd hear a beaver selling for an excessive a

486
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 1: hundred dollars, muskrats selling for eight Is that not? Am

487
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: I remembering this wrong? I don't ever remember beaver average

488
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: in a hundred. No, no, not at all. Beavers never

489
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: really changed a dramatic amount. It's a lot more difficult

490
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: process to uh tan and take care of beaver, and

491
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: I think that's held the price down a lot on beaver,

492
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 1: when a lot of the other fir's a lot easier

493
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 1: to process, and a lot of it's just fashion trends.

494
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: As I said, when I first started, beaver or thirty

495
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: dollars in a coyote was six dollars. A bobcat was

496
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: probably maybe twenty. Uh But it wasn't too much into

497
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: the early seventies that we were looking at, you know,

498
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: two and three hundred dollar bobcats and you know, forty

499
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: or fifty dollar coyotes at that time. And then it

500
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: wasn't too much later than we saw a hundred dollar coyotes.

501
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: You know, when you hear or the last it's not

502
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: so much right now, but like even within the last

503
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: few years, you'd hear rumors of people saying that they

504
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 1: were selling a bobcat for you hear rumors that like

505
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: eight hundred dollars a thousand dollars. That's still a case

506
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 1: right now, but they they've got a lot more specific

507
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 1: with what they're looking for. But those real wide black

508
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: and white bellies which they used for making vests and

509
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: things like that, is where those real wide black and

510
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: white spot and what they're after is the spots. It's

511
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: basically the only spotted fur that's available now. It's surprising

512
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: me that they don't just um that they care about that.

513
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: It's that there's a concern about that it's actual, because

514
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: doesn't it seem like you could just like replicate it.

515
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: You ever felt fake for? Yeah, it feels like fake for.

516
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: Can't replicate that? Yeah, nature does it better. So on

517
00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: those like like who's buying, um, who's buying bob hats

518
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: right now? Like what country do they go to? Italy?

519
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: I think Italy. They're they're lining in the pockets of

520
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: jeans on they're putting little top ends on girls jeans

521
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: and lining it with bobcat fur and inside the pockets too. Yeah,

522
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: you'll see a little white you know, bobcat belly for

523
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:19,959
Speaker 1: just on the top of like a set of levies

524
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: on the top edge of the pocket leading into it.

525
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 1: And I know that's pretty popular right now. And again

526
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: it's it's Europe. It's not much in the United States. Uh, France, Italy,

527
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: those are two of the bigger ones. I remember reading

528
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: a thing on town of something about the sort of

529
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: the weirdness and unpredictability of fur prices. This analyst was

530
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: talking about at times that northern raccoons so like genelly,

531
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: northern furs are heavier, like better furd, heavier leather crack

532
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 1: Is that a fair Southern furs, a thinner lever, thinner leather,

533
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: thinner fur just because of climate. One thing I'd like

534
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: to bring up right now is the fact that you

535
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: gotta remember whild or is just a reaction. It's basically

536
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: the tail on the dog. Ranch for makes up of

537
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: the fur market only five percent. It's actually wild fur.

538
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: So the fur prices it only follows the ranch market.

539
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: So like like right now they've got a huge surplus

540
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: of ranch raised mink, which in turn drives down the

541
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: price of muskrat and and wild mink. And it's just

542
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: wild fur market just follows wherever the ranch market goes,

543
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: is where the wild firm market goes. Yeah. I read

544
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: a piece recently a big auction house that used to

545
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: deal in wild for had just stopped wild for all

546
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: together and now only deals in ranch for. I don't

547
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: know about that. Like some furrier North American fur No, no, no,

548
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: it's like some furrier head abandon its wild fur practice

549
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: because of the Because the predictability of the predictability and

550
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: consistency of ranch for, it's more consistent in the quality

551
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: of the fur. You know, One first is nearly exactly

552
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: the same as the other. So it's really a lot

553
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: easier on a soelding aspect wild furst because wild for

554
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: varies real widely on the quality, texture and color. And

555
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: got you So this thing, uh, this thing I was

556
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:25,239
Speaker 1: reading about just talking about the sort of idiosyncrasies oft

557
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: the fur market. Was explaining that I guess there's been

558
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: times when southern raccoons have been more valuable than northern raccoons,

559
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: and it was pointing to the weight of a finished product,

560
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: meaning it's very hard, and it was saying outside of Italy,

561
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: it's very hard to sell a fur coat that weighs

562
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: more than nine pounds. Generally in Asia, if you have

563
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: a fur coat that weighs more than seven pounds, people

564
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:56,959
Speaker 1: will think it's too heavy and won't want to buy it.

565
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: But an Italian a where a heavier fur coat than

566
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: anybody else. And it was talking about so if you

567
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: had a situation where um Italy was buying a lot

568
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: of furs, that could affect fur markets because they're more

569
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: tolerant of heavier, longer coats, Whereas when furs are popular

570
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 1: in some other country, like if China is buying a

571
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: lot of fur um, it could tend to be that

572
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: that would be maybe driving up muskrat prices more because

573
00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: it's a lower bottom end price to buy the thing.

574
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:34,959
Speaker 1: And it was I think that when you're looking at

575
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,959
Speaker 1: in the US, you're trying to understand like where fur

576
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: goes and what drives for prices, you tend to look

577
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: around you and it doesn't really make sense because you

578
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: just don't see the habits of what's going on in Italy, China, Russia,

579
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: these other places, and all this stuff gets exported. What's

580
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: what are the impacts of covid on for pretty poor

581
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: right now? You know what I've done is I've started

582
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: my own little fur shop and cut out about three

583
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: middle men, and so I make all my own stuff

584
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: and sell it in my live in Wrangle, Alaska, and

585
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: we have a little first store there, and so I

586
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 1: everything I catch, I cut out the auction yard houses,

587
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: I cut out the you know, shipping up. More than

588
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: one time, I basically shipped my fur to the tannery

589
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 1: and it ships back. It isn't shipping to the to

590
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,439
Speaker 1: the auction yard and then shipping from the auction yard

591
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: to the tanner and then from the tanner eat back

592
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 1: to the furrier, and it just cuts out a whole

593
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 1: bunch of middlemen. And and I make fur products and

594
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,760
Speaker 1: sell them to the tourists there. What's your shop called,

595
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 1: It's called the Trading Post and and wrangle. We have

596
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: a website to now, it's furs Alaska dot com. And

597
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: so being's COVID come around. We finally decided we better

598
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: start selling stuff online. And so when you if you

599
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: if you've achieved a place or like a chief, a

600
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: position where you're now able to be a fur trapper

601
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 1: and for hunter and make a market for and sell

602
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: all your own stuff off, has all this chit chat

603
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:10,399
Speaker 1: about fur price has become irrelevant to you completely? Yeah?

604
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: You know, I I view trapping as an excuse to

605
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: run around in the woods and being in a place

606
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: that I love to be. And so it really wouldn't

607
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: make any difference if the prices were zero, I'd still

608
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: be there. Uh. And I think I feel like I'm

609
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,280
Speaker 1: doing a steward of the land of maintaining the animals,

610
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 1: you know, somewhere close to carr and capacity and a

611
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: healthy population so they don't get to that point where

612
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: they become overpopulated and it stresses the animals, and then

613
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: the diseases come in, and all animals have controlling diseases,

614
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,879
Speaker 1: so you know, if they're completely left alone, they will

615
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 1: reach that point. What all species do you go after? Now?

616
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: I trapped basically in southeast Alaska. Probably Pine Martin is

617
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: most desirable, but I trapped Pine Martin and otter wolves

618
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: and wolverine beaver. Did you do any Did you do

619
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: muskrats anymore? There's no muskrats up there where I'm at,

620
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: but you don't trap muskrats anywhere else? Uh? I have

621
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 1: before come down uh the state of Washington and trapped

622
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: some areas that I used to trap when I was younger,

623
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: but I haven't price right now is about three dollars

624
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: for muskrats when they're ten. I can make pretty good

625
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: money at it, make a thousand dollars a day when

626
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: they're ten dollars, But making three dollars a day doesn't

627
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: excite me much. Explain his contraption you made, though, this

628
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: is your invention? Yeah, I developed. Well. You gotta remember

629
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 1: in the state of Washington in the year two thousand,

630
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 1: they banned trapping as we knew it. They decided that

631
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 1: it would be best if they didn't have any traps

632
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: that were body gripping devices, so they banned all body

633
00:36:55,640 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: gripping devices. They they banned the Connterby trap, which undoubted

634
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 1: at least probably the most humane trap every every developed.

635
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: But in the interest of humanity, they decided to ban

636
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: the most humane trap made and so they said we

637
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: could no longer use anybody gripping devices. So that kind

638
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: of forced me into a situation where I said, well,

639
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,479
Speaker 1: I still want to trap, So how can I trap

640
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: muskrats without gripping them in any way? So I developed

641
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: a floating colony trap that the animal goes into and

642
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: it never grips the animal. He drives down through two

643
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: opposing fingers and drowns, and then the trap resets itself

644
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: when that muskrat goes in. And that was that was

645
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: more palatable to the voters of Washington. Yeah, you know,

646
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: it was more palatable to do that. So so it

647
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: forced me into a situation where instead of averaging sixty

648
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: muskrats a day, I have now averaged twenty muskrats a day.

649
00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: Uh in the same amount. Oh yeah, what I'm looking at, say,

650
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to explain. Man's what like twenty

651
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: they're twenty four inches long, and then they'd be six

652
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: twelve twelve inches wide. It looks like a small cage,

653
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 1: a small cage with one inch or three quarter inch

654
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: square wire twenty four inches long, uh maybe twelve inches deep,

655
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: six inches of brass six inches across, with floats up

656
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: towards the top, so that cage sits underwater and it floats.

657
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: And there's a little trap door like kind of like

658
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 1: a door reminiscent of like I have a heart trap

659
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 1: door that's just not a swing, so you can just

660
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: push your way in there and crawl your way in there,

661
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: right And when they go in, what happens is is

662
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,879
Speaker 1: they bump this bump bar. The door lays down these

663
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: right here adjustable so you can get it to where

664
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,359
Speaker 1: it's almost balanced. But once the mushgrat goes in, as

665
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: you see, he canal can't get out. And this is

666
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 1: the invert verded door model, which allows the smallest and

667
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: the kits to escape, which is something trappers have never

668
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: had before. So if you can imagine, now we leave

669
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: all the smalls and kits which are not very valuable

670
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: in relation to the adults. This one only catches adult

671
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: sized muskrats. All the others escaped unharmed, and by spring

672
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 1: the next year then they're mature rats and then you

673
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 1: can catch them when they're worth two or three times

674
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 1: more than what that kit was. But that's not that's

675
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 1: for fur trappers. That's not like a guy that wants

676
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: all the muskrats dad because they're destroying his landscaping. Okay,

677
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:36,399
Speaker 1: that's this one down here. This has got Basically, it's

678
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 1: a treadle. It's a teeter totter. Uh As the muskrat

679
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: goes in, the teeter totter closes the door behind it,

680
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: and once the muskrats in there, he can't physically get out.

681
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: It's uh just one direction in and eventually he decides

682
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 1: he can't get out the way he came in, so

683
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: then he dives down. The bottom compartment holds about eight muskrats.

684
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: Although I've had a lot of customers, I sell them

685
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 1: all over the United States, mostly to the animal damage

686
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: control people. What do you call this thing? It's a

687
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: voting colony trap. You have, you don't have a fancier name.

688
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:12,879
Speaker 1: And that the Lisa Watney two thousand. Lisa Wattney got

689
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: to explain that Lisa Watney was the person that drove

690
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,359
Speaker 1: the ban on trapping in the state of Washington. So

691
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: I name one time, I called it the Lisa Watney

692
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: two thousand because she all she, in her attempts to

693
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 1: make make us not catch the animals, we doubled our

694
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: production and trapping the animals. What do you sell one

695
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 1: of those things for? Do you still make? Yeah? I

696
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: still make them, just hand make them all. Yeah, and

697
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: make them all. I come down about two weeks every

698
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 1: year and make a couple of hundred of them. And

699
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,959
Speaker 1: then yeah, so it takes me a couple of weeks

700
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: to make a couple of hundred of them, and and uh.

701
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: Then so in your year when I saw about you've

702
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: always had an interesting lifestyle. Within your year, you account

703
00:40:56,160 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 1: for spending a couple of weeks making muskrat colony traps

704
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 1: and you'll sell all those throughout the year. That pretty

705
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 1: much from one five dollars plus shipping. Wow, But you know,

706
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 1: how how do you bait it? Okay, if you paid

707
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 1: the back part with carrots and I usually put a

708
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: couple of appetizers up here in front, they muskrat will

709
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 1: come by and grab the carrot and you'll take it off,

710
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 1: and he really likes carrots. It's like candy to a muskrat,

711
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: and so he comes back and looks for more. But

712
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,399
Speaker 1: there seems to be some. I don't know whether they're

713
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,240
Speaker 1: bringing other muskrats back with them, because once they start

714
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 1: hitting it, you'll just fill it up with muskrats. What's

715
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 1: the most you've ever caught one? I've only caught eight

716
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: is the most. I've got several times. But I have

717
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: a lot of customers that lay claimed to ten. I

718
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: had one guy that he uh was kind of funny.

719
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 1: He had he had ordered a couple of traps from me.

720
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 1: He's an animal damage control guy and he had a

721
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: golf course pawd. He said that he called up and said,

722
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: I'm not catching anything in my traps, and I said, okay, well,

723
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: trice uh seed in the bank with uh. You know.

724
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 1: I had him describe it to introduce them to carroty. Yeah,

725
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 1: to introduce him to seed the banks with carrots and

726
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: see what happens. They called me back about three days

727
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: later and he said, yeah, he couldn't have got another

728
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 1: one in it without vasiline. He had ten of a

729
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: minute he had to educate the muskrats on carrot. Yeah,

730
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 1: they just didn't even they were. He said that that

731
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: particular pond was grass all the way down to it,

732
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 1: and the muskrats were just eating grass is all they

733
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 1: were eating. And so they had no idea what a

734
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 1: carrot was. But once they figured it out, it was

735
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: phenomenal for him. Do you use any commercial lure? I yeah,

736
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: I'd use uh just a cherry oil and and uh,

737
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 1: petroleum jelly is what I use in it. You can

738
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,680
Speaker 1: use fancy lures and that wouldn't make any difference. When

739
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 1: I was a kid, we used to use mint toothpaste.

740
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 1: So homet what's your what's your mix? Just petroleum jelly

741
00:42:53,400 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: and uh, cherry oil, vasoline and cheerio cheerio like an extract. Extra.

742
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: When a person gets the trap, they get a DVD

743
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: with it and a little bottle of jewry all, which

744
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 1: it's just not a name to it's just an instructional

745
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,359
Speaker 1: video for it that that comes with it, so they

746
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 1: can because most you know, this is entirely different than

747
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 1: any trap that you ever see. But do you anchor it?

748
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: You just tie it off to where it doesn't float away?

749
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: You know? Can I borrow that thing? Yeah, we have

750
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,760
Speaker 1: lots of them. So but I don't know, man, because

751
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: it's like takes all the romance out of muskrat trapping. Well,

752
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 1: you know the neat thing about they don't you don't know.

753
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: You don't need to know how to read sign no correct. Yeah,

754
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 1: that's what you don't have to because that's in a

755
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: pond and walk away. Yeah. But when I take my kids,

756
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: we set muskrat traps last night. It was opening day yesterday.

757
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: When I take my kids out set muskrat traps, you're

758
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 1: looking for the runs or about this. This is a

759
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,359
Speaker 1: push up a large bank den. Here's where they've been

760
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,399
Speaker 1: doing this. This. Just go throw that something biting off

761
00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:59,319
Speaker 1: the edge of the pond and start stacking them up.

762
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 1: But I bet the manager of that property would be

763
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: very happy if we use that. I don't want him

764
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,360
Speaker 1: to even know. I hope he doesn't listen to I

765
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 1: don't know if he listens to this show or not,

766
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 1: but it's gonna change his whole life. He thinks I

767
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 1: have some kind of magic. He thinks I got some

768
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 1: kind of magic capabilities. Maybe I don't know. If I

769
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: said I am going I went to tuck it into

770
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: the cattail. So he doesn't know about it. I went

771
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 1: into a pond here that a guy had had a

772
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 1: trapper pay to come in and kill muskrats, and he

773
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:38,800
Speaker 1: killed seven muskrats, and the landowner was still seeing muskrats everywhere,

774
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 1: and so he got ahold of me and said, well,

775
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 1: the trapper before he got seven, do you think you

776
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 1: can beat that? And I threw my six colony traps

777
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: out and I had fifty three muskrats the next the

778
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: next day. Seriously, yeah, So I came back, I said

779
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: him that night. I came back the next day and

780
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,439
Speaker 1: I had between alright, it had it was two checks

781
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 1: that I had fifty three, but I ended up getting

782
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,800
Speaker 1: fifty three and two checks. Um would just six traps

783
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,320
Speaker 1: and everyone of them was just completely loaded. And then

784
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:05,959
Speaker 1: I literally couldn't catch another muskrat out of that pond.

785
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 1: It's just all of a sudden, there's no muskrats in them.

786
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:10,279
Speaker 1: Let me tell you where it is left. Let me

787
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: tell you this thing's vulnerability. And you probably realized this

788
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 1: in Michigan. We used you know, I didn't travel out,

789
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 1: but like I think, like a good year when I

790
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 1: was like probably the most I ever caught muskrats. One

791
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 1: year when I was not a kid, but like community

792
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: college age um, and you could trap for weeks before

793
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 1: freeze up. But hereabouts, like in the Northern Rockies, higher elevation,

794
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: by the time the season opens, you're in freeze up.

795
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 1: So have you made us? Have you made an under ice?

796
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,919
Speaker 1: You know this this is strictly for open water. Why

797
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: have you not done any invented for an under a

798
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: thing that you chop a hole? Because then that son

799
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 1: of a bit down and they find it when they're

800
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 1: cruising around under the ice because it's Martin trapping season.

801
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 1: The next This hasn't This hasn't bothered you know that's

802
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 1: inventored me a bit. You know. I I'm liking to

803
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,240
Speaker 1: do all kinds of things, and muskrat season is muskrat

804
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 1: Season's time to go and tell might appreciate an under

805
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 1: ice solution. If I say you ought right now to

806
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: trap a muskrat through the ice, what would be your

807
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 1: what's your go to? You set? You just look for

808
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 1: the runs. One tan Connabar in the run, you just

809
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,799
Speaker 1: look for the runs the bubbles probably, but his clientele

810
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: mostly is nuisance trappers right there trying to they can trap.

811
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: They're trapping your runevera up and yeah, they're not gonna

812
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 1: be trapping during the ice up. I don't want to

813
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 1: infringe on your business. But here's the thing, uh Me

814
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 1: and Seth here you might not have heard of us,

815
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 1: but we're small scale free nuisance trappers meaning volunteer. We're volunteering,

816
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:59,560
Speaker 1: but we're volunteer newsance travers. But you gotta our customers

817
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 1: all work on our schedule. Like I'll have you know,

818
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 1: people who within a couple of hours driving here, if

819
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: they have beaver problems or muskrat problems, Um, I'll be

820
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 1: you know, they'll say like, oh my god, we gotta

821
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: blank beaver problem, you know, And I'll say, well, we'll

822
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 1: come out in the middle of the winter when it

823
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:24,240
Speaker 1: suits our likings. So not doing any kind of damage stuff.

824
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 1: But it's a free service. But it's hard to really

825
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: um and those at that time of year, it's hard

826
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: to give them what they're after, which is eradication. M hm.

827
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 1: You know, like I don't know, like through the ice

828
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:41,399
Speaker 1: I don't know that you can really totally clean them out.

829
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 1: Probably not unless you just keep going and going and

830
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: going and going and going. You know, the people that

831
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: are doing the animal damage control or charging fifty bucks

832
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 1: of muskrat or you know, a hundred and fifty dollars

833
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 1: of beaver to remove it, or you know, whatever their

834
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 1: prices getting that amount of money. You know, it depends

835
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 1: on where what I know, volunteers, we need to make

836
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: a website. You know, these guys are making a living

837
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: doing it. You're not going to make a living trap

838
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:14,760
Speaker 1: and beaver for their fur. What a website be called

839
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: free nuisance trapping? I don't know. I'd have to think

840
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,959
Speaker 1: about it work on that. I feel like a lot

841
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 1: of or a fair amount of our audience as hunters

842
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: may also have qualms about trapping. You find that to

843
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 1: be the case. Yeah, right, So I'm just kind of

844
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 1: curious to hear from everyone, not like it's necessary to

845
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 1: make an indefensive but to just kind of go into

846
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:50,439
Speaker 1: a little bit of you're kind of thinking your thought

847
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:54,359
Speaker 1: process about it, you know, and why hunters would think

848
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:58,440
Speaker 1: that trapping is is different. I'll go first, Yeah, are

849
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 1: you asking me? Yeah, I'm asking all of you. I

850
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:05,600
Speaker 1: could ask this question fair bit. And uh, I think

851
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 1: that as a harvester of of anything, um like, it

852
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: does a matter if you fish or hunter trap, you

853
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 1: are beholden to a regulatory structure. Okay, there are rules

854
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:25,280
Speaker 1: that there are rules of engagement UM, and the rules

855
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,240
Speaker 1: that you live by when you're hunting fish and trap

856
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 1: are generally meant to ensure that they're generally meant to

857
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:38,760
Speaker 1: limit efficacy UM, so that people don't have the tools

858
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:42,879
Speaker 1: at their disposal to like annihilate species, so that they're

859
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: meant to make it UM that the means of harvest

860
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 1: aren't so effective that everybody is putting themselves out of business.

861
00:49:54,800 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 1: They also are very informed by historical use and common practice.

862
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 1: Meaning if we devise some new thing and we realized

863
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 1: that all of our fishing harvest goals could be met

864
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:19,240
Speaker 1: with these very precise specific poisons, say, regulators or people

865
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 1: that set wildlife laws wouldn't necessarily just jump to that

866
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 1: because that's not a historic use. It's not a common

867
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: use pattern to use poisons. So you kind of prefer

868
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 1: ways things have always been done in terms of like

869
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 1: cultural longevity and how we go about our practices UM.

870
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 1: Due to the regulatory thing, and because beavers have commercial value, say,

871
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: or fur bears have commercial value, oftentimes fur bears are

872
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 1: the only allowable harvest is by trapping. Take Michigan, for instance,

873
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:01,760
Speaker 1: where I grew up, you could not The only legal

874
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: method of take for muskrat, mink, beaver, otter, the only

875
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: legal method of take was by licensed for harvesters using

876
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 1: trapping technology at a time, and it still will come back.

877
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 1: It just ebbs and flows. Those things are of commercial

878
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: value and support a commercial industry, and it was protecting

879
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 1: those fur bears from want and slaughtered by people with

880
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: firearms year round. So they said, like, these things have value,

881
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 1: We're going to protect the people that participate in this

882
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,720
Speaker 1: protected industry and make it that they are fur bears

883
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 1: are meant for fur harvesters. Point being is you're operating

884
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 1: usually within an pre existing regulatory structure. So with beavers,

885
00:51:54,560 --> 00:52:00,080
Speaker 1: for instance here, um, you can't hunt them, right, you

886
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:04,040
Speaker 1: trapped them. If you think it's okay to use a

887
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 1: renewable resource beavers as a renewable resource, and you accept

888
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 1: that people who are in agriculture, irrigation, um, people who

889
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:20,720
Speaker 1: are trying to protect timber, trying to check landscaping, fruit trees,

890
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 1: streamside vegetation, aspen groves, what have you, that these people

891
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 1: at times have a legitimate reason to want to get

892
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: rid of some beavers. That's how it's done. So you're

893
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 1: not making a decision like do I want to hunt

894
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 1: beavers or trap beavers? It's that's how beavers are caught,

895
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 1: is through trapping. So I don't view it as it

896
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:43,360
Speaker 1: would be. I don't. I wouldn't get into a situation

897
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: where I'm like, because I can't shoot it with my gun,

898
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: therefore I think that they should not be harvested. Do

899
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 1: you feel like that's the argument you get or or

900
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 1: there's a there's some kind of conceptual traps are me

901
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 1: but and stuff, so okay running an arrow through it?

902
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 1: And then you get into this weird, weird ship with

903
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 1: people who think that like, hunting with a bow is

904
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 1: more ethical than hunting with a rifle. It might be like,

905
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 1: it's harder. It's definitely harder to be consistent with the

906
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 1: bow takes a greater skill set. But for the animal,

907
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:32,280
Speaker 1: you think you're doing the animal of favor by killing

908
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: it one way and not another, Like I don't you either.

909
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 1: Are you either at a position where you think that

910
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 1: that it's that we have it's okay to harvest renewable

911
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 1: resources or not right? That's probably if you get to

912
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 1: where it's not okay, cool, it's not, but if it is,

913
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:59,320
Speaker 1: then that's how we do it. It's the most effective,

914
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 1: most humane way to get it done, and historically that's

915
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:04,880
Speaker 1: how people going about it. So I just don't like,

916
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 1: you know, every time I have a converse, like, I

917
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 1: don't feel like I need to predicate every conversation about

918
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 1: harvesting beavers or muskrats or whatever with a big thing

919
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:16,879
Speaker 1: explaining why I think it's okay. The same way every

920
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 1: time you go through the drive through and order chicken nuggets?

921
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: Is there someone waiting there to like question your ethics?

922
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 1: Why do trappers have to face it all the time?

923
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 1: You know why? Like I'm not, I'm not like why

924
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 1: why does it do you have to justify it every

925
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 1: time you turn around? But people that eat chicken never

926
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 1: have to. So for our listeners, I think we are

927
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: we take out this bit of the podcast and play

928
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 1: it on repeat, so Steve never has to be again.

929
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. I want to make a

930
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 1: sign of McDonald's and protest chicken nuggets. Yeah, it's like, well,

931
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 1: how do you like, how do you feel about how

932
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 1: they kill those chickens? You know what? The answer you

933
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 1: to get I have, dude, I have no idea how

934
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 1: they kill those chickens. Yeah, nor do they care. I

935
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 1: one time did some work at a place called it

936
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 1: was called um it was like Bill Mar, but not

937
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:13,760
Speaker 1: like Bill Mar, but like Bill like a turkey processing plant.

938
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 1: Turkeys would show up weird. They're working on some equipment.

939
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: They'd bring in all these turkeys in trucks. Okay, the

940
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 1: turkeys are on these little boxes in the truck. So

941
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 1: they were raised somewhere. I mean, if you've ever gone

942
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:28,919
Speaker 1: And I'm not even hacking on him, I'm just saying

943
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 1: that's how it goes. Like they're raising these like warehouses,

944
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 1: thousands of turkeys packed into a warehouse. Then they pull

945
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:38,800
Speaker 1: up a truck and you take all the turkeys and

946
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: load them into a little box on the truck and

947
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 1: drive that down the highway. Uh. I'm not a turkey.

948
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 1: But being loaded down after spending my life in a warehouse,

949
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:52,320
Speaker 1: never seeing the sun, to be loaded down a semi

950
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:54,880
Speaker 1: in a little box and hauled down an interstate system

951
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:56,839
Speaker 1: for X number of hours, I don't know what that

952
00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:01,120
Speaker 1: experience is like. And then it gets to the parking

953
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 1: lot and it waits there in the parking lot, and

954
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 1: eventually it's that truck's turn, and they go and pull

955
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 1: it in, and a guy grabs the turkey out and

956
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:15,480
Speaker 1: hooks its feet into a little hook and suspends it

957
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 1: upside down, and then it goes down the conveyor and

958
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:25,439
Speaker 1: its head gets dragged across an electrified plate, which gives

959
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: it a good zap, and then it gets caught in

960
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:30,360
Speaker 1: this little v thing and it passes through that and

961
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 1: a little spinning blade cuts his throat. But trapping, that's

962
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 1: mean as ship. It's like, I just you know what

963
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 1: I'm saying, like why is it turkeys? Folks? But like you,

964
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:48,360
Speaker 1: you find a muskrat den instead of body grip and

965
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 1: trapping there the musgrat goes into then body grit trap

966
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 1: grips around the back of the neck or over the lungs.

967
00:56:54,560 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 1: He's underwater, can't move, he's dead and seconds and that

968
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 1: is so upsetting. I'd like to address that because I

969
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:09,359
Speaker 1: have my little Okay, I have this little first shop here,

970
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 1: and I get a lot of people coming into the shop,

971
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 1: you know, and a lot of them are posed to

972
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 1: trapping in that, you know, and you ask talk to

973
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 1: him a little bit, and you know, you know, what

974
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:19,040
Speaker 1: do you dislike about you? I don't they can consider

975
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 1: it inhumane, And I said, well, you know, we probably

976
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 1: got some things we could agree on here. You know,

977
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 1: we can probably all agree that all animals, wild animals

978
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 1: die and you know, you usually get an agreement out

979
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 1: of that. And so you know, next question is, well

980
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:37,120
Speaker 1: do you agree that you know, out of all wild animals,

981
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 1: almost none of them die of old age, and they

982
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 1: sometimes you'll get some squawk of that. So you pull

983
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: out your smartphone, you google what percentage of wild animals

984
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 1: die of old age? And most all researches none or

985
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 1: a non negligible amount. Okay, so you know we're talking

986
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 1: about the human and treatment of an animal and trapping

987
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 1: is in humane. Well, now we've decided that the animal

988
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 1: basically has four ways that that animal can die. He

989
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,040
Speaker 1: can die from a conno bear that relatively kills him instantly.

990
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 1: He can die of starvation, he can die of a disease,

991
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 1: or he can die from consumed by another predator. Out

992
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 1: of those four deaths, which one do you consider the

993
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 1: most humane? And when in fact, trapping is the most

994
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:28,240
Speaker 1: humane death that that animal could possibly receive. You know,

995
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 1: if you think of it in human terms, would you

996
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:34,760
Speaker 1: rather be hit by a train traveling sixty mile or

997
00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 1: die of a disease over three weeks or a month period,

998
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 1: or die from being consumed by a bear, or die

999
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 1: from um starving to death or starve to death or

1000
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 1: starving to death. So of the four possibilities that that

1001
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 1: animal is going to die, the actual most humane death

1002
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 1: is being trapped. We had a wolf freeze to dry

1003
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 1: one time. We asked her what kills wolves and she

1004
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 1: said wolves, Yeah, smart all the study subjects. And the

1005
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 1: other thing is is, you know most people can they

1006
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:16,080
Speaker 1: figure trappers are out there to catch everything they can,

1007
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 1: and when in fact that's the direct opposite. The trapper

1008
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 1: wants to be able to maintain a healthy population, to

1009
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 1: be able to go out next year. What would be

1010
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 1: the benefit of a for example, a cattle farmer that

1011
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 1: has a pasture that supports a hundred cattle, You know

1012
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 1: he's gonna want a hundred cattle out there producing for

1013
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 1: him so he can harvest the surplus every year. So

1014
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 1: the trappers are no different. We want to go out

1015
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 1: next year, we want to trap as many as we can.

1016
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:49,640
Speaker 1: We want a healthy population. As stewarts of the land.

1017
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 1: We want to maintain that healthy animal. So you know,

1018
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 1: in the case where the people that don't want any

1019
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 1: any animals killed, the animals make natural cycles where they'll

1020
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:02,760
Speaker 1: popular laid up over years, disease out, and they just

1021
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 1: go from peak and crash, peak and crash. As stewards

1022
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:08,560
Speaker 1: of the land. As a trapper, I'm able to maintain

1023
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 1: healthy populations right straight through. Any time you have, for example,

1024
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 1: kyotes getting overpopulated and getting manes or distemper, then you

1025
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 1: have the potential of that spreading into the dogs of

1026
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 1: the pomesticated canine populations, yeah, getting into the the population

1027
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:30,440
Speaker 1: of of domestic animals, where if you maintain a healthy

1028
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:33,960
Speaker 1: population of the kyo, you don't have that problem. I've

1029
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 1: found that people are comfortable with the cycles um like

1030
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:44,680
Speaker 1: it doesn't upset them because people have this idea that like, oh,

1031
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:48,200
Speaker 1: that's natural. So like wolves getting killed by wolves, They're like, oh, yeah,

1032
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 1: that's fine, that's natural. UM disease is fine, that's natural.

1033
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:58,920
Speaker 1: I think a lot of the discord and um acrimony

1034
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:05,000
Speaker 1: the trapping rings about is because people this is a phenomenon.

1035
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 1: I guess at the last two hundred years, people have

1036
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:13,880
Speaker 1: gotten to the point where, um, nothing we do that

1037
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 1: they like us. They like our species to sit entirely

1038
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 1: outside of nature. Are you being a steward of the

1039
01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 1: land by doing that? Well, no, but it's comfortable for

1040
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:30,320
Speaker 1: people to imagine that we're we're tainted. Um, we do

1041
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:32,560
Speaker 1: all the things we do, but we're tainted, and like

1042
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 1: any role we play in nature is very upsetting to them,

1043
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:40,520
Speaker 1: Like they want everyone to live divorced from nature, so

1044
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 1: that all the ways the muskrat dies, all the uses

1045
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:46,440
Speaker 1: of the muskrat goes toward to feed things, Like the

1046
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:49,680
Speaker 1: minute it enters into the human sphere, something's wrong, something

1047
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 1: is something has occurred that was bad. You know that,

1048
01:01:53,200 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 1: like of all the predation that drives things that a

1049
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 1: human predator would get, it feels like naughty to them. Um,

1050
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of hang up. It's hard to address.

1051
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:05,240
Speaker 1: That's really interesting. It's like, I guess we're not animals.

1052
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 1: I guess we're not part of the uh natural world.

1053
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 1: You know, we've brought technology to the place where it

1054
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 1: is so we can just be like robots that sit

1055
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 1: in the sidelines, and like we live in apartment buildings,

1056
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 1: we don't live in the woods. I guess so. Yeah. People,

1057
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 1: a lot of people I think regard themselves as kind

1058
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:27,560
Speaker 1: of ikey. They think they're like ikey and evil in

1059
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:30,479
Speaker 1: that context. But I don't, like, I don't feel that way,

1060
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:34,800
Speaker 1: Like I don't like to be an agent out in nature. Um,

1061
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:37,720
Speaker 1: like a person who does things and consumes things and

1062
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 1: supports things and and you know, uh, you know, a

1063
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 1: well intentioned predator like that doesn't make me feel nasty

1064
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:51,320
Speaker 1: and icky. It's interesting, but it's a sentiment that people have.

1065
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 1: My wife had struggles with trapping. What's her She struggles

1066
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 1: with electric reels because because you know what it is

1067
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 1: when I inquire about it, because you're not there. Oh,

1068
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 1: I see, so you're not bearing witness to it. It's

1069
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:14,360
Speaker 1: like a mechanical you're not. Actually, it's not active. It's

1070
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 1: because you set it. You set a trap and you

1071
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:23,439
Speaker 1: don't need to be there. And electric reels because your

1072
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 1: hand doesn't need to like going circles. So she feels

1073
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 1: like it's most of the most of the time, the

1074
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:36,920
Speaker 1: definition of trapping is hunting with mechanical devices. Most places,

1075
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 1: most states. I think that's how they define trapping, is

1076
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:45,720
Speaker 1: hunting with mechanical devices. Maybe that's upsetting to people. But

1077
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:50,600
Speaker 1: what's a firearm mechanical device? Is that far more sophisticated.

1078
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 1: That's why hunting and trapping a lot of times follow

1079
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:56,760
Speaker 1: the same regulatory guidelines too as well. You'll find a

1080
01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:59,280
Speaker 1: lot of hunting and trapping laws that coincide with each other.

1081
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:04,040
Speaker 1: But I can see that. It's like you're I can

1082
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:06,120
Speaker 1: see where she's coming from. I don't. I mean, I

1083
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:09,120
Speaker 1: don't know how I feel either way, but like you're

1084
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 1: in the moment confronting an animal, and your action in

1085
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 1: that moment, that engagement with that creature in that moment

1086
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 1: is like an active choice that you're making right, and

1087
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:28,439
Speaker 1: if you're setting something out that's going to do its

1088
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:34,560
Speaker 1: job by yourself in your absence, I can I can

1089
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 1: see where she is sitting waiting out a deer to

1090
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 1: in her mind is like that's great, yeah, waiting it out.

1091
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:46,160
Speaker 1: But you go out in the warm part of the

1092
01:04:46,240 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 1: day instead of beaver trap, and then you go back

1093
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 1: to bed and some point during the night your ass

1094
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:53,600
Speaker 1: isn't even sitting there freezing, and what you got him?

1095
01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:58,120
Speaker 1: It just strikes her as you're cheating. She might have

1096
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 1: an arguable point there to completely disagree. It's also just

1097
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 1: more variables that you have less control over, right, you know, yeah,

1098
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:09,520
Speaker 1: I think that's in my defense of what I always

1099
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:12,600
Speaker 1: when I'm having this argument with her, I tell her,

1100
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 1: like the electrical real for the electric real friends. When

1101
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:18,080
Speaker 1: she thinks is like she was offended by electric reels

1102
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:21,880
Speaker 1: deep dropping because you don't see the fish and all

1103
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 1: this stuff, I said to her. And I said the

1104
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:27,919
Speaker 1: same thing to her about beaver trapping, as I said,

1105
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 1: I could lay a gun out for someone and say

1106
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:33,360
Speaker 1: I want you to kill a deer. Okay, So let's

1107
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 1: say I'm one pile, I put a gun, and I say,

1108
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:38,880
Speaker 1: I why it's you to kill it? Here? In one pile,

1109
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:40,880
Speaker 1: I put all the ship that it requires a deep

1110
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:45,160
Speaker 1: drop of black cod in the pile. Or I put

1111
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 1: all the ship that's required to trap a beaver in

1112
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 1: a pile. Which pile are you gonna grab? Figure it out? Yeah?

1113
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:55,200
Speaker 1: And I said, okay, crant, here's the choice. You can

1114
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 1: take this and shoot catch a deer. You can take

1115
01:05:57,560 --> 01:05:59,200
Speaker 1: all this ship and catch a black cod, or you

1116
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:00,880
Speaker 1: can take all this ship and catch a beaver. What

1117
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 1: are you gonna go for? What's gonna strike you? As

1118
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 1: the easiest thing the action, of course, because it takes

1119
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 1: the skill set require draped myself in options. Yeah, the

1120
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:20,480
Speaker 1: bits of information, the bits of information required to catch

1121
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:25,080
Speaker 1: a beaver are greater than the bits of information required

1122
01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:29,240
Speaker 1: to shoot it here, Okay, they just are. It takes

1123
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:32,080
Speaker 1: more know how to like, it just takes more know

1124
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:35,680
Speaker 1: how to get up and running. Yep, got it, Like

1125
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 1: trying to set that thing up. One of my limbs

1126
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 1: might be in there. Not just that, but to read

1127
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:45,560
Speaker 1: the sign, to understand even where to begin. It's like

1128
01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:51,040
Speaker 1: not an easy thing. And so that whole like how

1129
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:54,640
Speaker 1: that whole like challenge aspect, which is different than ethics.

1130
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 1: It's still substantive. There is a huge challenge aspect, but

1131
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:01,480
Speaker 1: people don't see it because they don't experience and they

1132
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:03,280
Speaker 1: don't go out and see what it requires. It is.

1133
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 1: They have this idea of how easy it is, like

1134
01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 1: how easy it is to criticize people that run mountain

1135
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:11,439
Speaker 1: lines of dogs until you go and see what goes

1136
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:13,840
Speaker 1: into it hard. Could it be shooting line out of

1137
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:16,720
Speaker 1: a tree that I don't think, I don't know any

1138
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:19,680
Speaker 1: houndsman to think that's hard. Maybe the concept is like

1139
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:23,960
Speaker 1: setting out traps is like setting out like a mouse trap. Well,

1140
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:28,240
Speaker 1: it's like this muskrant thing we're looking at that looks

1141
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:30,720
Speaker 1: a lot more complicated than a mouse In the case

1142
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:32,720
Speaker 1: of a kyote trap, where you've got a two inch

1143
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:35,960
Speaker 1: circle that out of a square mile, you're trying to

1144
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:38,000
Speaker 1: get a coyote to step on a two inch circle.

1145
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:40,160
Speaker 1: I don't know how many two inch circles there are

1146
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:42,440
Speaker 1: in a square mile, but you know, that's kind of

1147
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:47,000
Speaker 1: amazing in itself. That's something I've I've heard that express

1148
01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 1: and it's a it's a very valid point that you

1149
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:54,040
Speaker 1: are not only that you're trying to get him a

1150
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:56,920
Speaker 1: step on a two inch man made circle. Yeah, it

1151
01:07:57,040 --> 01:08:03,320
Speaker 1: smells bad, It's incredible. Yeah, how affective people are figuring

1152
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:09,200
Speaker 1: that stuff out? What else you got, kran No, that's

1153
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:11,959
Speaker 1: that's it. I just wanted to touch on that because

1154
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:14,360
Speaker 1: I think that comes up a lot here and I

1155
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:18,200
Speaker 1: just I mean, I don't know either way. You know, Hey,

1156
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:20,439
Speaker 1: this is this is all new to me, so I

1157
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:23,960
Speaker 1: kind of just appreciate the information in the in the perspective,

1158
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 1: I think that, but in all fairness of the subject,

1159
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:33,639
Speaker 1: I think that, um, when trappers are defending trapping, they

1160
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:37,639
Speaker 1: often want to go to. They often jump to conna bears,

1161
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:40,519
Speaker 1: which are body gripping traps, because it's sort of like

1162
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:45,920
Speaker 1: very they're like demonstrably effective, like they kill things very quickly.

1163
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:49,840
Speaker 1: Very few trappers go to defend trapping and jump to

1164
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:56,000
Speaker 1: footholds that restrain an animal for a day or two alive.

1165
01:08:56,920 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 1: Oh that so now now I want to show up.

1166
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:03,439
Speaker 1: And then you show up and yeah, like when we

1167
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 1: used to like trapping fox, red fox, you would dispass

1168
01:09:07,080 --> 01:09:10,360
Speaker 1: like you'd catch the file. You check every morning. It

1169
01:09:10,400 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 1: was it just made more sense to check in the morning,

1170
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:15,479
Speaker 1: but you didn't have to um. Some states have check

1171
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:18,760
Speaker 1: laws twenty four hours, forty eight hours, whatever. You go there,

1172
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:21,000
Speaker 1: it is, he's on, he's in the trap, he's been

1173
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:23,559
Speaker 1: there all night. And you go up and take a

1174
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:25,880
Speaker 1: trowel and smack him across the bridge of the nose

1175
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:29,040
Speaker 1: and stun him and then take your heel and and

1176
01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:32,120
Speaker 1: crush his rib cage with your heel. Is how trappers

1177
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:36,679
Speaker 1: dispatch red foxes. That's upsetting to people, But trappers always

1178
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:38,760
Speaker 1: want to talk about connor bears. I do too. It's

1179
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:41,320
Speaker 1: a bad habit of mine. Then it gets a little,

1180
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:43,920
Speaker 1: then it gets like then it's different. It's a different conversation.

1181
01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:47,439
Speaker 1: Maybe if I was arguing with the trapper, that's what

1182
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:50,800
Speaker 1: I would talk about. I'd be like, no, no no, don't

1183
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 1: want to talk about converse. Well, recognize just a lot

1184
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:55,800
Speaker 1: of snares with the development of a stench or kill

1185
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:58,040
Speaker 1: spring in that well. I don't know how many coyotes

1186
01:09:58,120 --> 01:10:00,320
Speaker 1: we have that the cable stretch out where you out

1187
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:02,720
Speaker 1: a skiff of snow and you can see exactly what

1188
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:05,160
Speaker 1: took place. You can see where the kayok goes into

1189
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:08,040
Speaker 1: the snare, he takes a lunge and he's laying dead

1190
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:09,800
Speaker 1: at the end of it, and his foot has made

1191
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:12,920
Speaker 1: maybe a couple of swipes of his foot where it's

1192
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:17,479
Speaker 1: killed him extremely quickly. Just so, I don't really use

1193
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:20,280
Speaker 1: traps all that much anymore because of the efficiency of

1194
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:23,120
Speaker 1: the the snares that are available to us now. It

1195
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:26,240
Speaker 1: cuts off that card artery and I mean they're dead

1196
01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:28,040
Speaker 1: at the end of the cable. I've got a number

1197
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:31,000
Speaker 1: of wolves that the cable is stretched out and the

1198
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:34,320
Speaker 1: wolf is laying dead at the end of it. Zero

1199
01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:37,120
Speaker 1: disruption to the to the you can reset your set

1200
01:10:37,160 --> 01:10:39,360
Speaker 1: and needed the grass didn't even get beat down or

1201
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:41,920
Speaker 1: anything like literally it goes to the end of the rope,

1202
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:45,479
Speaker 1: they drop. That's it, you know. Sometimes their leg doesn't

1203
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:48,240
Speaker 1: even move. There's I mean, it's you couldn't stone an

1204
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:51,240
Speaker 1: anim all that quickly, couldn't shoot it, You couldn't show

1205
01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:53,880
Speaker 1: in the forehead and have it die as quickly as

1206
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:56,120
Speaker 1: they do with it. When they cut off that blood

1207
01:10:56,120 --> 01:11:00,200
Speaker 1: to the brain, they basically just die instantly. So when

1208
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:03,519
Speaker 1: you do you not like, do you know guys that

1209
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:08,240
Speaker 1: don't use let me, let me, let me back up

1210
01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:13,200
Speaker 1: from it and just explain something listeners. You'll often hear

1211
01:11:13,240 --> 01:11:16,640
Speaker 1: like dry dry land dry ground sets being differentiated from

1212
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:19,040
Speaker 1: water sets because water sets theres a hundred ways, not

1213
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:20,880
Speaker 1: a hunter ways. There's a handful of ways with water

1214
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:23,800
Speaker 1: sets to kill stuff real quick, drowner wires and all

1215
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:27,559
Speaker 1: kinds of things like you get stuff underwater and drown

1216
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:30,479
Speaker 1: it or it's just killed by the trap. So dry

1217
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 1: land sets, dry land leg hold or foothold sets um

1218
01:11:37,080 --> 01:11:40,719
Speaker 1: oftentimes are just restraining the animals you get there. I'll

1219
01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:46,320
Speaker 1: point out that wolf researchers often catch the wolves they're

1220
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:49,200
Speaker 1: doing for coloring projects. They catch the wolves use the

1221
01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:54,760
Speaker 1: exact same technology that people are talking about being crueling inhumane.

1222
01:11:57,320 --> 01:11:59,439
Speaker 1: Wolf researchers use. I know, there's a lot of wolf

1223
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:03,679
Speaker 1: researchers to use an MB seven fifty, which is what

1224
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 1: a foothold trap. So when they want to put a

1225
01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:12,519
Speaker 1: collar on a wolf or do damage work, they're using

1226
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:15,559
Speaker 1: the thing that everyone agrees is so nasty. So it's

1227
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:18,519
Speaker 1: important to keep that in mind. Can we can we

1228
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:22,800
Speaker 1: picture it as like you know, your foot, you know,

1229
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:27,479
Speaker 1: is grabbed hold of by something and and you're just

1230
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:29,920
Speaker 1: maybe you're, you know, trying to struggle and get away,

1231
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:31,760
Speaker 1: but there it is. It's like it's a thing that

1232
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:35,280
Speaker 1: pinches your foot. Predator with canines. It usually gets them

1233
01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:38,160
Speaker 1: around the pad. It's usually like held in around the

1234
01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:42,040
Speaker 1: pad with a couple of toes, same stuff researchers use.

1235
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:44,280
Speaker 1: You do not want a trap that breaks the bone

1236
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:48,000
Speaker 1: on them. The trap that is just restraining the animal.

1237
01:12:48,360 --> 01:12:51,559
Speaker 1: That's the goal, because anything more than that you have

1238
01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:54,719
Speaker 1: more of a chance of losing them. So the whole

1239
01:12:54,760 --> 01:12:58,559
Speaker 1: idea of a foothold trap is to just restrain the

1240
01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 1: animal with doing his men them amount of damage as

1241
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:04,840
Speaker 1: you can. Okay, one of the points when I wanted

1242
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:06,000
Speaker 1: to set that up to one of the points I

1243
01:13:06,040 --> 01:13:12,000
Speaker 1: wanted to get at was um, there are there, there

1244
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:15,800
Speaker 1: are perfect scenarios in setting traps and like best practices

1245
01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:20,160
Speaker 1: and humane practices. But things happen all the time that

1246
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:23,760
Speaker 1: caused the systems to go awry. And I think the

1247
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:27,000
Speaker 1: people that have a hard time with trapping are probably

1248
01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 1: deeply informed by the situations where something goes awry for

1249
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:37,080
Speaker 1: whatever reason. The kyot pulls out, pulls a steak out,

1250
01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:41,160
Speaker 1: breaks the chain, I don't know, and then it's run

1251
01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:43,840
Speaker 1: around neighborhood the tramp on its leg or I have

1252
01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:49,439
Speaker 1: even in like beaver sets where the drowner cable I use,

1253
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:53,679
Speaker 1: something gets kinked up, some stuff drifts down, it gets

1254
01:13:53,720 --> 01:13:55,960
Speaker 1: the cable gets a curl q in it, a drift

1255
01:13:56,040 --> 01:13:58,680
Speaker 1: log comes down and messes it up. Something messes it up,

1256
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:02,280
Speaker 1: and you do like just like, I'll admit it flat out.

1257
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:05,200
Speaker 1: You'll come down and have a beaver's front foot in

1258
01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:08,760
Speaker 1: a trap. It can happen. They twist out that your

1259
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:12,760
Speaker 1: equipment fails and there you have, you've like tore the

1260
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:19,840
Speaker 1: foot off of beaver. So somehow trappers like need to

1261
01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:23,200
Speaker 1: account for that more than other people who might have

1262
01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:27,120
Speaker 1: something go wrong now and then well, what about how

1263
01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:31,880
Speaker 1: many deer get killed by combines harvesting wheat? Sure, or

1264
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:36,400
Speaker 1: how many how many deer and elk um are wounded

1265
01:14:36,439 --> 01:14:40,920
Speaker 1: and survived from bullet and arrow strikes. But I think

1266
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:46,639
Speaker 1: that trappers are held more to the mistakes, yeah, than

1267
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:50,479
Speaker 1: hunters and farmers and everyone else has held to They're

1268
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:53,440
Speaker 1: held more to the mistakes. I think it's a smaller community.

1269
01:14:53,479 --> 01:14:55,479
Speaker 1: It's easier to target them. I mean, you're not gonna

1270
01:14:55,520 --> 01:14:57,920
Speaker 1: go fight all the farmers in the United States of

1271
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:02,160
Speaker 1: America for killing rabbits, you know, the trappers, they're so

1272
01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:06,120
Speaker 1: small and rare now that it makes a very easy

1273
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:09,840
Speaker 1: target to hone in on one group. You know, if

1274
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:13,000
Speaker 1: you look at the total number of named animals by

1275
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:15,439
Speaker 1: any user group out there, you're gonna have a hard

1276
01:15:15,479 --> 01:15:19,320
Speaker 1: time convincing me anyways, that trappers many more animals than

1277
01:15:19,320 --> 01:15:21,760
Speaker 1: any other user group, you know, or in general them,

1278
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:24,280
Speaker 1: you know, to the point where they aren't dispatched. So

1279
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:27,120
Speaker 1: I think it's because of the population. And this, I mean,

1280
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:29,479
Speaker 1: how many trappers do you know? You know, ask that

1281
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:32,920
Speaker 1: to someone on the street. Yeah, it's not going to

1282
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:37,880
Speaker 1: be a big number, you know, And so it's a

1283
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:41,000
Speaker 1: small number, and I don't think it's I think trappers

1284
01:15:41,040 --> 01:15:44,559
Speaker 1: got an unfair targeting because of that, because of their

1285
01:15:45,640 --> 01:15:49,120
Speaker 1: eliteness isn't the word, but because of their fraternity and

1286
01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:50,920
Speaker 1: how tight they are with each other and how small

1287
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:52,960
Speaker 1: of a group it is. Um, they do get picked

1288
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:54,839
Speaker 1: on more. It's a minority, you know, it's a minority.

1289
01:15:55,320 --> 01:16:00,520
Speaker 1: It's of um people who are opposed the animal harvests.

1290
01:16:02,120 --> 01:16:05,719
Speaker 1: It's in the playbook to go after and the death

1291
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:11,679
Speaker 1: by thousand cuts routine. The smaller user groups are always

1292
01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:18,320
Speaker 1: where you're going to go after. Yeah, early houndsman, trappers, whatever,

1293
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:22,599
Speaker 1: It's just like an easier victory. It seems very other

1294
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:28,479
Speaker 1: two people. Yeah, for sure, it's more acceptable to go

1295
01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:30,960
Speaker 1: after them because not a lot is known about them.

1296
01:16:31,080 --> 01:16:34,360
Speaker 1: You know, there are a group that most people don't

1297
01:16:34,400 --> 01:16:37,680
Speaker 1: have any firsthand contact with. You know, I'd say a

1298
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:39,960
Speaker 1: lot of hunters probably have never talked to a trapper.

1299
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:47,800
Speaker 1: I used to point out that fishermen fishermen fish, and

1300
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:52,320
Speaker 1: they might not do anything else. Correct, hunters, most hunters fish,

1301
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:58,599
Speaker 1: trappers hunting fish. You got it. There's a hierarchy there.

1302
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:11,960
Speaker 1: Walk through height even like let's let's say you're explained

1303
01:17:11,960 --> 01:17:17,080
Speaker 1: to someone, Um, you run your trap line basically gotta wrangle. Yes,

1304
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:20,479
Speaker 1: I've got to have a cabin and permit that's forty

1305
01:17:20,479 --> 01:17:24,120
Speaker 1: two miles from town. Uh. That's the same type of

1306
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:27,760
Speaker 1: permit as a is uh the interior of Alaska where

1307
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:32,960
Speaker 1: you're allowed to build a cabin on state ground. Permit

1308
01:17:33,040 --> 01:17:35,760
Speaker 1: cost a hundred dollars and it is a ten year

1309
01:17:35,800 --> 01:17:38,800
Speaker 1: permit and you can put yourself up a cabin and

1310
01:17:38,840 --> 01:17:41,479
Speaker 1: then at the end of the ten years it's either

1311
01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:44,639
Speaker 1: renewable or any time during that period you can tear

1312
01:17:44,680 --> 01:17:47,320
Speaker 1: it down and it's better does have to be removed.

1313
01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:49,519
Speaker 1: You have to put up a bond that for removal.

1314
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:54,360
Speaker 1: Explain to someone how they would like. Let's say you

1315
01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:56,920
Speaker 1: were trying to explain to someone you gotta go catch

1316
01:17:56,920 --> 01:18:00,439
Speaker 1: a wolverine. Here's what I would tell you if I

1317
01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:02,439
Speaker 1: had a couple of seconds, a couple minutes to explain

1318
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:05,120
Speaker 1: to you that you need to go catch one, Like,

1319
01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:07,160
Speaker 1: how do you even begin to think about how it's

1320
01:18:07,479 --> 01:18:10,160
Speaker 1: even begin to think about what would go into catching

1321
01:18:10,160 --> 01:18:12,400
Speaker 1: a wolverine. Okay, first of all, you're gonna have to

1322
01:18:12,439 --> 01:18:16,960
Speaker 1: go to some place that wolverianes live. So at that point,

1323
01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:22,120
Speaker 1: then you know, try to find bottlenecks or funnels. For example,

1324
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:24,880
Speaker 1: as I go up the rivers, where a river comes

1325
01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:29,360
Speaker 1: in against a high steep embankment or something like that,

1326
01:18:29,360 --> 01:18:32,880
Speaker 1: that's going to crowd the crowd the wolverine into that spot.

1327
01:18:33,080 --> 01:18:36,000
Speaker 1: So you're trapping when the rivers are clean. Yeah, well

1328
01:18:36,040 --> 01:18:38,000
Speaker 1: they're they're still open most of the time. When I'm

1329
01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:40,400
Speaker 1: going up the rivers, they're still staying open up there.

1330
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:42,680
Speaker 1: I think you need to elaborate how you get up

1331
01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:46,560
Speaker 1: the river. Oh, I have an airboat with a O

1332
01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:49,120
Speaker 1: forty like combing on it that I get up the

1333
01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:52,040
Speaker 1: rivers with. That's what you trap out of. Yeah, what

1334
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:55,519
Speaker 1: do you like to bat them with? Um? Beavers will

1335
01:18:55,680 --> 01:18:58,920
Speaker 1: go to bait for almost everything. I found. The duck

1336
01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:02,759
Speaker 1: works really well for pine martin and duck. Yeah, duck works,

1337
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:05,960
Speaker 1: and carcasses work really well for pine martin better than

1338
01:19:06,200 --> 01:19:09,639
Speaker 1: beaver meat. You mean, it's like that when you clean

1339
01:19:09,640 --> 01:19:12,920
Speaker 1: a duck, like whatever is left over, Cassy says, bones

1340
01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:16,880
Speaker 1: basically bones and feathers. Yeah, after once the duck has

1341
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:20,240
Speaker 1: been breasted, Um, you can use it for bait at

1342
01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:23,040
Speaker 1: that point. In the case of geese, you also have

1343
01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:26,000
Speaker 1: to take the legs, but then whatever is left over

1344
01:19:26,040 --> 01:19:28,040
Speaker 1: after you've breasted and taking the legs, and you can

1345
01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:29,640
Speaker 1: use that for bait. Yeah, it's like how you can

1346
01:19:29,680 --> 01:19:32,120
Speaker 1: bait a crab trap with a salmon head, but you

1347
01:19:32,160 --> 01:19:34,400
Speaker 1: can't say a crab trap with I mean most sport

1348
01:19:34,439 --> 01:19:36,000
Speaker 1: caught sam and you can't stick the whole damn for

1349
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:39,479
Speaker 1: the edible parts have been removed. Yeah. What time of

1350
01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:42,400
Speaker 1: year do you like to start? The season starts December

1351
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:48,240
Speaker 1: one and runs through February short. Yeah, so you can

1352
01:19:48,280 --> 01:19:50,120
Speaker 1: still in the middle of the winter and that country

1353
01:19:50,640 --> 01:19:53,320
Speaker 1: have enough open water to run your whole to run

1354
01:19:53,400 --> 01:19:55,880
Speaker 1: the sea. The thing about the airboat is because it's

1355
01:19:56,439 --> 01:19:59,679
Speaker 1: in that particular environment. It's not like the interior where

1356
01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:02,360
Speaker 1: everything is completely froze over. You can run snowmobiles up

1357
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:05,040
Speaker 1: the river. I wouldn't think it would take very long,

1358
01:20:05,080 --> 01:20:08,240
Speaker 1: and you'd break a snowmobile through someplace on these rivers

1359
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:12,200
Speaker 1: because it's fluctuating between freezing and not freezing all the time.

1360
01:20:13,080 --> 01:20:16,360
Speaker 1: And so with the airboat, which it'll go on snow

1361
01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:20,920
Speaker 1: ice water that just basically goes over almost a gravel bars.

1362
01:20:21,040 --> 01:20:25,280
Speaker 1: Gravel bars does not like mud. Mud is basically airboat

1363
01:20:25,280 --> 01:20:28,519
Speaker 1: epoxy is there right, Yeah? Yeah, you stick it in

1364
01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:31,960
Speaker 1: the mud and it's stuck. Got you just too much friction. Yeah.

1365
01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:34,760
Speaker 1: A pretty major travel barrier for a lot of the

1366
01:20:34,840 --> 01:20:37,920
Speaker 1: rivers in southeast is that the bays will ice up.

1367
01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:40,320
Speaker 1: There's enough fresh water in them that's not moving very much.

1368
01:20:40,760 --> 01:20:42,560
Speaker 1: You'll end up with these ice barriers. We used to

1369
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:44,679
Speaker 1: trap out a little john boats, and you can only

1370
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:47,240
Speaker 1: go so far up into them before you basically the

1371
01:20:47,320 --> 01:20:49,120
Speaker 1: rivers at ice up, and once you get above the

1372
01:20:49,120 --> 01:20:51,120
Speaker 1: ice dams in the bottom, then the river is moving

1373
01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:54,000
Speaker 1: enough to where it opens back up again. So the

1374
01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:56,599
Speaker 1: logistics of trying to figure out how to get up

1375
01:20:56,640 --> 01:20:59,920
Speaker 1: one of these rivers very far was was one that

1376
01:21:00,080 --> 01:21:03,240
Speaker 1: was fairly challenging. So, I mean, my dad took it

1377
01:21:03,280 --> 01:21:05,040
Speaker 1: upon himself to figure out one way to get up

1378
01:21:05,040 --> 01:21:07,080
Speaker 1: above there. He knew the wolverines were further up the river.

1379
01:21:07,120 --> 01:21:08,960
Speaker 1: They weren't coming all the way down as far. There's

1380
01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:10,880
Speaker 1: a lot of the natural funnels where the points come

1381
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:13,679
Speaker 1: out where these these wolverines would have to travel were

1382
01:21:13,720 --> 01:21:16,240
Speaker 1: further up than we could get with a little illuminum boat.

1383
01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:20,320
Speaker 1: How many miles up river are you trapping about? Eight

1384
01:21:20,360 --> 01:21:24,040
Speaker 1: miles up, each one up, So you got multiple rivers,

1385
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:29,639
Speaker 1: all right, and wolverines roam all around, and you try

1386
01:21:29,680 --> 01:21:34,320
Speaker 1: to find someplace where they'll their movements will be constricted,

1387
01:21:34,479 --> 01:21:38,080
Speaker 1: like down to a bottleneck of sorts, and that might

1388
01:21:38,160 --> 01:21:43,720
Speaker 1: be bank configurations, river bank of steepness, so that you

1389
01:21:43,720 --> 01:21:47,400
Speaker 1: know if they're saddles. Yeah, just any place that's a funnel.

1390
01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:50,160
Speaker 1: The same way as you trap anything, you go to

1391
01:21:50,200 --> 01:21:54,640
Speaker 1: where they're gonna be traveling. How many, just like just

1392
01:21:54,680 --> 01:21:56,760
Speaker 1: like a human being, I mean, how many times have

1393
01:21:56,880 --> 01:21:59,080
Speaker 1: you went to a hunting in a certain spot, You

1394
01:21:59,120 --> 01:22:01,800
Speaker 1: go back three year years later, you find yourself walking

1395
01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:05,080
Speaker 1: in the exact same space place that you walked three

1396
01:22:05,160 --> 01:22:09,679
Speaker 1: years earlier. Yeah, how many do you take? Each year?

1397
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:12,800
Speaker 1: I have I have caught, not caught that many wolverine.

1398
01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:16,000
Speaker 1: I caught one year last year and and that, and

1399
01:22:16,080 --> 01:22:19,000
Speaker 1: so this is something new for me. I've never been

1400
01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:22,400
Speaker 1: able to trap wolverine before until, like Rick said, I

1401
01:22:22,439 --> 01:22:25,400
Speaker 1: spent about thirty thou dollars to catch my first wolverine.

1402
01:22:25,439 --> 01:22:28,320
Speaker 1: So I could have I think that I could. I

1403
01:22:28,320 --> 01:22:33,000
Speaker 1: could have bought built an air or built a cabin,

1404
01:22:33,200 --> 01:22:35,800
Speaker 1: got an air about but lots of years of trial

1405
01:22:35,840 --> 01:22:37,960
Speaker 1: and error. I mean, how much how many trials and

1406
01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:41,120
Speaker 1: errors do we do before finally figuring out, No, I'm

1407
01:22:41,160 --> 01:22:44,280
Speaker 1: not a big wolverine trapper. However, it's like I said,

1408
01:22:44,280 --> 01:22:46,559
Speaker 1: it's an excuse to run around the woods. So the

1409
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:49,719
Speaker 1: great white buffalo, how do you catch Pine Martin? Pine

1410
01:22:49,720 --> 01:22:52,519
Speaker 1: Martin is generally in a box as well too. Although

1411
01:22:53,200 --> 01:22:56,000
Speaker 1: one thing that I did take from my trapping experience

1412
01:22:56,040 --> 01:23:00,559
Speaker 1: in Washington when they banned all body gripping devices, we

1413
01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:03,720
Speaker 1: went to box trapping Pine Martin and I found up

1414
01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:06,800
Speaker 1: in the live trapping them. Yeah, live trapping, Okay, And

1415
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:08,880
Speaker 1: then you know, I mean that type of trap, Yeah,

1416
01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:11,400
Speaker 1: that type of trap, just a cage trap. And so

1417
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:14,120
Speaker 1: I started doing up that up there as well, in

1418
01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:18,680
Speaker 1: the fact that I could turn loose the females and

1419
01:23:18,720 --> 01:23:23,760
Speaker 1: maintain a higher population, uh for the closer to the

1420
01:23:23,760 --> 01:23:28,040
Speaker 1: carrying capacity, and have more producing females. Uh not no

1421
01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:31,880
Speaker 1: different than a cattle. Female pine Martin worth more than

1422
01:23:31,920 --> 01:23:35,120
Speaker 1: male Pine Martin. No, male worth much more. So that's

1423
01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:37,800
Speaker 1: just that's always that way. Yeah, I got males are

1424
01:23:37,880 --> 01:23:43,759
Speaker 1: much bigger, and they're they're much more desirable price wise females.

1425
01:23:43,840 --> 01:23:47,080
Speaker 1: Females are just smaller. So much of furs is based

1426
01:23:47,080 --> 01:23:50,559
Speaker 1: on square inches. Yeah, I got you. Like if it's

1427
01:23:50,640 --> 01:23:54,160
Speaker 1: twice as big as probably twice as m exactly with you.

1428
01:23:54,680 --> 01:23:58,680
Speaker 1: So how do you catch them? Well, with either one

1429
01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:01,240
Speaker 1: of two ways, either con of trap, which is far

1430
01:24:01,320 --> 01:24:04,240
Speaker 1: more humane than a cage trap. But the cage trap

1431
01:24:04,320 --> 01:24:07,040
Speaker 1: does allow you the ability to be able to be

1432
01:24:07,160 --> 01:24:11,200
Speaker 1: more selective in your harvest where I'm just harvesting just males, retort,

1433
01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:16,000
Speaker 1: letting the females go, and uh being able to maintain

1434
01:24:16,040 --> 01:24:20,559
Speaker 1: a higher number of productivity out of the area. Pine

1435
01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:23,800
Speaker 1: Martin are extremely easy to overtrap. Yeah, I hear that

1436
01:24:23,840 --> 01:24:26,240
Speaker 1: all the time. Why is that, Well, they're slow, they're

1437
01:24:26,280 --> 01:24:30,600
Speaker 1: delayed implantation, meaning that they're they're basically pregnant when you

1438
01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:33,600
Speaker 1: when you catch them. And so when I turn a

1439
01:24:33,640 --> 01:24:36,639
Speaker 1: female loose, I'm probably turning loose two or three Martin

1440
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:39,679
Speaker 1: in reality, because they normally only have one or two

1441
01:24:39,960 --> 01:24:42,800
Speaker 1: kit or pups whatever you want to call them. But

1442
01:24:43,400 --> 01:24:45,360
Speaker 1: so they don't have you know, like the main cap

1443
01:24:45,439 --> 01:24:48,240
Speaker 1: five or six in a litter or pine Martin only

1444
01:24:48,240 --> 01:24:50,680
Speaker 1: has one or two. Yeah, it's funny that make like

1445
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:53,200
Speaker 1: make have a reputation is being hard to catch. But

1446
01:24:53,240 --> 01:24:56,320
Speaker 1: pine Martin's have a reputation is being easy, extremely easy

1447
01:24:56,360 --> 01:24:59,200
Speaker 1: to catch. Like what makes it that way? Mank are

1448
01:24:59,240 --> 01:25:01,120
Speaker 1: afraid of their own shadow. I've done a lot of

1449
01:25:01,200 --> 01:25:04,320
Speaker 1: videotaping on my sets and stuff like that, trying to

1450
01:25:04,400 --> 01:25:07,599
Speaker 1: find out, you know, some difference. Pine Martin will just

1451
01:25:07,600 --> 01:25:11,599
Speaker 1: plow right into a trap, but he's not smelling. He's

1452
01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:16,320
Speaker 1: not worried about the smell of steel, the smell of humans. Well, yeah,

1453
01:25:16,439 --> 01:25:20,439
Speaker 1: they just plow right into things. They don't really care

1454
01:25:20,479 --> 01:25:24,120
Speaker 1: if it's food there after it. And the mink they're

1455
01:25:24,160 --> 01:25:27,960
Speaker 1: they're pretty skittish. I wonder if it's um that the

1456
01:25:28,120 --> 01:25:31,439
Speaker 1: mink just lives in a he lives in a more

1457
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:34,280
Speaker 1: food rich environment and can afford to be a little particular.

1458
01:25:34,479 --> 01:25:36,400
Speaker 1: But a Pine Martin in the winter has just got

1459
01:25:36,400 --> 01:25:39,479
Speaker 1: to be balls out all the time. I think Martin

1460
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:41,920
Speaker 1: most of his life is on the verge of starvation.

1461
01:25:43,080 --> 01:25:45,559
Speaker 1: I think they just they work hard to make a

1462
01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:48,439
Speaker 1: living where a mink has got a pretty easy life,

1463
01:25:49,320 --> 01:25:51,800
Speaker 1: and then you make a little box like a cubby,

1464
01:25:52,080 --> 01:25:54,160
Speaker 1: put bait in the back guard the front of the trap.

1465
01:25:54,320 --> 01:25:56,200
Speaker 1: Connor Bear, what do you how do you deal with

1466
01:25:56,240 --> 01:25:59,280
Speaker 1: all the snow, like all the snow, bearing all yourself

1467
01:25:59,280 --> 01:26:01,400
Speaker 1: all time. Well, you can put it on the side

1468
01:26:01,439 --> 01:26:04,200
Speaker 1: of a tree, just nail boxes side of a tree. Well,

1469
01:26:04,280 --> 01:26:07,439
Speaker 1: wolverine run up a tree though, Yeah, yeah, so you

1470
01:26:07,439 --> 01:26:10,040
Speaker 1: can get this that up out of the snow. Yeah. Actually,

1471
01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:12,559
Speaker 1: I've got a set I'm working with this year. That's

1472
01:26:12,680 --> 01:26:16,000
Speaker 1: uh what I I've actually got this from another individual

1473
01:26:16,080 --> 01:26:19,639
Speaker 1: up and uh, I believe it's Northwest Territories where he's at.

1474
01:26:19,720 --> 01:26:22,200
Speaker 1: But he used a tip up, which is basically a

1475
01:26:22,200 --> 01:26:25,280
Speaker 1: long pole attached to your trap. So when the trap

1476
01:26:25,400 --> 01:26:29,559
Speaker 1: is sprung, it falls away and the tip up brings

1477
01:26:29,600 --> 01:26:32,000
Speaker 1: the animal up in the air and suspends him. He's

1478
01:26:32,040 --> 01:26:34,479
Speaker 1: already caught and killed in the trap. But one in

1479
01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:37,400
Speaker 1: real big advantage of that is in the case of

1480
01:26:37,880 --> 01:26:41,759
Speaker 1: Pine Martin, he's suspended so the voles and shrews don't

1481
01:26:42,040 --> 01:26:44,599
Speaker 1: chew up the first start eating them. Yeah, And so

1482
01:26:44,680 --> 01:26:47,360
Speaker 1: he's suspended up out of the way. And so I'm

1483
01:26:47,400 --> 01:26:51,080
Speaker 1: experimenting with that and making a set that's designed to

1484
01:26:51,160 --> 01:26:56,160
Speaker 1: catch links wolverine, fisher, Pine Martin. We have very few

1485
01:26:56,200 --> 01:26:58,800
Speaker 1: of all of those items, and there's a fair number

1486
01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:02,559
Speaker 1: of wolverine, but uh, mainly just pine martin is what

1487
01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:06,640
Speaker 1: I'm after, but it eliminates the problem. Last year I

1488
01:27:06,720 --> 01:27:10,360
Speaker 1: had about six pine martin eating by wolverine. Had a

1489
01:27:10,400 --> 01:27:12,200
Speaker 1: wolf that I had caught that got eaten by a

1490
01:27:12,200 --> 01:27:16,000
Speaker 1: wolverine as well. So the wolverine ate the wolf. Yeah,

1491
01:27:16,439 --> 01:27:18,040
Speaker 1: so he found a wolf that I had caughten a

1492
01:27:18,080 --> 01:27:23,760
Speaker 1: snare and he ate it. So. Uh, Wolverines used to

1493
01:27:23,800 --> 01:27:25,960
Speaker 1: have like a real bad rip. Not used to in

1494
01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:28,040
Speaker 1: the North, Like I don't have any experience trapping like

1495
01:27:28,040 --> 01:27:30,720
Speaker 1: in the far North, you know, but wolverines, you know,

1496
01:27:30,760 --> 01:27:32,800
Speaker 1: they got the name like whatever, like the devil and

1497
01:27:32,840 --> 01:27:34,599
Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff. For how much trouble they

1498
01:27:34,640 --> 01:27:37,840
Speaker 1: gave the trappers. They just kind of get your number.

1499
01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:41,200
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, Well they basically figure out that wherever you're going,

1500
01:27:41,280 --> 01:27:44,280
Speaker 1: there's food. So I mean that's just like any other predator.

1501
01:27:44,439 --> 01:27:46,640
Speaker 1: They eat and they sleep, and they don't sleep very

1502
01:27:46,720 --> 01:27:49,479
Speaker 1: damn much. So I mean they just go to what's

1503
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:52,679
Speaker 1: available for him for food, and that's just a turns

1504
01:27:52,720 --> 01:27:55,360
Speaker 1: out to be a food source for him. A friend

1505
01:27:55,360 --> 01:27:57,840
Speaker 1: of mine in Alaska who used to trap wolverines, I

1506
01:27:57,920 --> 01:28:00,280
Speaker 1: was asking about how he found the wolverine and how

1507
01:28:00,280 --> 01:28:01,960
Speaker 1: he looked for him, and he just said, they just

1508
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:06,679
Speaker 1: found me. They just follow my snowshoe trail. He would

1509
01:28:06,680 --> 01:28:10,760
Speaker 1: make his sets in his snowshoe tracks. She's like, as

1510
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:12,679
Speaker 1: soon as they hit my snowshy tracks, A're gonna follow.

1511
01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:14,920
Speaker 1: It's an easy way to travel to once they hit that,

1512
01:28:14,920 --> 01:28:17,759
Speaker 1: and they can run. It's like gravy running and somehow

1513
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:20,000
Speaker 1: there's always food. Oh yeah, it's like always follow the

1514
01:28:20,040 --> 01:28:25,040
Speaker 1: snowshoe trail around. Oh look, Pine Martin delicious links, love links.

1515
01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:28,639
Speaker 1: What time of year do you trap beavers? I try

1516
01:28:28,680 --> 01:28:31,719
Speaker 1: to trap beaver up there. I'll start off by trapping

1517
01:28:31,760 --> 01:28:33,760
Speaker 1: beaver in order to get some bait for my Pine

1518
01:28:33,800 --> 01:28:36,479
Speaker 1: Martin or wolverine and other sets. So I'll start with

1519
01:28:36,560 --> 01:28:38,599
Speaker 1: beaver right off the get go, so I've got bait

1520
01:28:38,640 --> 01:28:41,240
Speaker 1: as much as anything. And then most of the beaver

1521
01:28:41,320 --> 01:28:44,320
Speaker 1: I'll catch for my store is gonna be beaver. In

1522
01:28:44,320 --> 01:28:46,960
Speaker 1: the springtime, the fur qualities a lot better in the spring.

1523
01:28:48,080 --> 01:28:51,080
Speaker 1: When does the fur get primed? Like, do they do

1524
01:28:51,080 --> 01:28:54,040
Speaker 1: do the do the regulators you know who set the seasons,

1525
01:28:54,600 --> 01:28:56,479
Speaker 1: do they good job? Do they do a good job

1526
01:28:56,479 --> 01:29:01,760
Speaker 1: of matching the opening and closing day with for quality? Yeah,

1527
01:29:01,760 --> 01:29:04,200
Speaker 1: I think most states do. Yeah, I think they do

1528
01:29:04,280 --> 01:29:05,680
Speaker 1: a real good job of that. But you like, the

1529
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:08,280
Speaker 1: beaver is better in the spring, Yeah, better quality for

1530
01:29:08,400 --> 01:29:11,880
Speaker 1: in the spring, particularly if you're plucking and cheering the beaver.

1531
01:29:12,640 --> 01:29:15,880
Speaker 1: Really it's not good in the fall, not as good.

1532
01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:19,240
Speaker 1: But you know, they what they call silkies are normally

1533
01:29:19,280 --> 01:29:22,800
Speaker 1: a fall beaver. They're a lot they're a little bit

1534
01:29:22,840 --> 01:29:25,240
Speaker 1: thinner furred, but they're a lot silkier or if they've

1535
01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:30,360
Speaker 1: been all all through the winter and yeah, yeah, they're thicker,

1536
01:29:30,479 --> 01:29:32,880
Speaker 1: you know, under fur, thicker in that which makes the

1537
01:29:32,920 --> 01:29:36,400
Speaker 1: better plucking and cheering. Got you? How do you catch

1538
01:29:36,439 --> 01:29:40,160
Speaker 1: those the beaver? I use a lot of floats, a

1539
01:29:40,280 --> 01:29:45,160
Speaker 1: frame type floats and I'm follow um can show you

1540
01:29:45,360 --> 01:29:47,360
Speaker 1: pictures on my phone, right, you might be new to this,

1541
01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:52,760
Speaker 1: so he might be new to this. Yeah, I can

1542
01:29:52,920 --> 01:29:56,200
Speaker 1: used to take Like when I was growing up, they

1543
01:29:56,240 --> 01:29:57,960
Speaker 1: never worked that well. We just take two pieces of

1544
01:29:57,960 --> 01:30:01,479
Speaker 1: firewood and make a loss piece and nail two pieces

1545
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:05,599
Speaker 1: of firewood together and then notch it out with a hatchet.

1546
01:30:05,800 --> 01:30:09,240
Speaker 1: So you can set a couple set a couple of

1547
01:30:09,280 --> 01:30:11,920
Speaker 1: stop loss on it and stable to stop lost trap

1548
01:30:12,200 --> 01:30:14,760
Speaker 1: chain down to the bottom of the float and stick

1549
01:30:14,800 --> 01:30:16,760
Speaker 1: a couple of dollars, drill some holes so you had

1550
01:30:16,760 --> 01:30:18,599
Speaker 1: a couple of dollars and put apples on the top

1551
01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:22,000
Speaker 1: for muscratch never work where the ship not as good

1552
01:30:22,040 --> 01:30:24,640
Speaker 1: as feed beds and bank dens. Yeah. Correct, But in

1553
01:30:24,680 --> 01:30:27,479
Speaker 1: the springtime that set will be a lot more effective

1554
01:30:27,520 --> 01:30:29,240
Speaker 1: than it will be in the fall when they're hungry.

1555
01:30:29,840 --> 01:30:32,000
Speaker 1: Not when they're hungry, they're actually breeding and they're just

1556
01:30:32,080 --> 01:30:35,599
Speaker 1: traveling a lot more, and then they're just running hilter

1557
01:30:35,720 --> 01:30:37,880
Speaker 1: skelter and running all over the place. They just travel

1558
01:30:37,920 --> 01:30:41,160
Speaker 1: a lot more and that makes them more a lot

1559
01:30:41,200 --> 01:30:43,599
Speaker 1: easier to catch. And that's one of the things like

1560
01:30:43,640 --> 01:30:46,559
Speaker 1: the mink up there, you know, most mink trappers, you know,

1561
01:30:46,600 --> 01:30:49,320
Speaker 1: they consider a time frame for mink to come by.

1562
01:30:49,439 --> 01:30:51,600
Speaker 1: Might be a week before they come back through in

1563
01:30:51,640 --> 01:30:53,800
Speaker 1: the lower forty eight. But up where I'm out in

1564
01:30:53,840 --> 01:30:56,960
Speaker 1: southeast Alaska, those mink can only travel a hundred yards

1565
01:30:57,000 --> 01:30:59,320
Speaker 1: from their din. I mean, the tide goes out and

1566
01:30:59,360 --> 01:31:02,360
Speaker 1: their breck for stair, the supper tables set and they

1567
01:31:02,400 --> 01:31:05,120
Speaker 1: go down in fift twenty minutes or a half an hour.

1568
01:31:05,240 --> 01:31:07,360
Speaker 1: They get a full belly and go back up and

1569
01:31:07,400 --> 01:31:11,519
Speaker 1: go back to sleep. So yeah, I uh, it's funny

1570
01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:14,439
Speaker 1: you mentioned that, because growing up catching mank is like

1571
01:31:14,520 --> 01:31:16,880
Speaker 1: very difficult to catch mink, and people do always be

1572
01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:19,880
Speaker 1: surprised to hear that there's mink living around. At our

1573
01:31:19,920 --> 01:31:22,479
Speaker 1: shock in southeast Alaska, we had a mink a few

1574
01:31:22,520 --> 01:31:26,240
Speaker 1: years ago. Something got hold of it and tore its

1575
01:31:26,240 --> 01:31:29,519
Speaker 1: tail off, most of its tail off, and gave it

1576
01:31:29,560 --> 01:31:33,519
Speaker 1: a big wound right at the base of his tail.

1577
01:31:34,200 --> 01:31:37,280
Speaker 1: And this wound was about like the size of like

1578
01:31:37,320 --> 01:31:39,160
Speaker 1: two of your fingers put together your middle finger and

1579
01:31:39,240 --> 01:31:42,559
Speaker 1: pointer finger. Um, like a wound like that up it's

1580
01:31:42,600 --> 01:31:44,679
Speaker 1: back on the back of its tail, at the base

1581
01:31:44,720 --> 01:31:48,160
Speaker 1: of its tail. And this moon festered and for a

1582
01:31:48,160 --> 01:31:51,880
Speaker 1: while this mink got lost all fear of people, and

1583
01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:55,160
Speaker 1: it would run across your shoes and it just looks sickly,

1584
01:31:56,520 --> 01:31:58,280
Speaker 1: and a bunch of times I thought, man, I should

1585
01:31:58,280 --> 01:32:02,080
Speaker 1: shoot that poor mink. UM just put it off. It's

1586
01:32:02,120 --> 01:32:04,360
Speaker 1: misery or it was acting so weird. I was worried

1587
01:32:04,360 --> 01:32:10,720
Speaker 1: about it biting my kids. That The next year, the

1588
01:32:10,800 --> 01:32:14,040
Speaker 1: mink is totally back to normal, except has a large

1589
01:32:14,120 --> 01:32:19,559
Speaker 1: scar in discoloration where it had healed up. And we

1590
01:32:19,640 --> 01:32:24,400
Speaker 1: have since and that mank is now, um I now

1591
01:32:24,479 --> 01:32:27,280
Speaker 1: know like lives there. We know a hole it lives in.

1592
01:32:27,360 --> 01:32:31,439
Speaker 1: And we've seen that mak now for four years hanging

1593
01:32:31,479 --> 01:32:35,440
Speaker 1: out in one little spot and you'll see it every day.

1594
01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:38,639
Speaker 1: And meanwhile, where I grew up and we caught mank

1595
01:32:38,720 --> 01:32:40,320
Speaker 1: and people trapped making there's a lot of we had

1596
01:32:40,360 --> 01:32:44,120
Speaker 1: mink longliners. You would go your most people will go

1597
01:32:44,240 --> 01:32:47,400
Speaker 1: their entire lives and be unaware that they lived there.

1598
01:32:48,680 --> 01:32:52,800
Speaker 1: But these like Southeast Alaska, mank are like squirrels. Yeah,

1599
01:32:53,320 --> 01:32:58,160
Speaker 1: middle of the day on the porch in the house.

1600
01:32:59,000 --> 01:33:02,120
Speaker 1: Just a way different man yeah, way different mank. I've

1601
01:33:02,400 --> 01:33:05,680
Speaker 1: I've had a different time to kill. Yeah, I've had

1602
01:33:05,760 --> 01:33:08,519
Speaker 1: difficult time catching them because of that, I think, And

1603
01:33:08,640 --> 01:33:11,519
Speaker 1: just I I'm used to that mink that makes week

1604
01:33:11,600 --> 01:33:15,559
Speaker 1: long cycles in that and it Uh, it's been a

1605
01:33:15,640 --> 01:33:18,160
Speaker 1: learning learning curve for me. They say that if you

1606
01:33:18,200 --> 01:33:20,120
Speaker 1: move a hundred miles, you gotta learn how to trap

1607
01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:24,840
Speaker 1: all over again. And with truly the case, what do

1608
01:33:24,920 --> 01:33:28,080
Speaker 1: you um, what's the main thing Like like you're saying

1609
01:33:28,080 --> 01:33:30,400
Speaker 1: you catch a lot of pine martins, what's the main

1610
01:33:30,439 --> 01:33:34,000
Speaker 1: thing you use pine martins for? Oh, I'm making hats

1611
01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:37,200
Speaker 1: out of him. I make different things. Uh, I don't

1612
01:33:37,240 --> 01:33:39,200
Speaker 1: think I've made any cuzies with them. One of one

1613
01:33:39,240 --> 01:33:42,599
Speaker 1: of my big sellers is beer cuzies, and I really

1614
01:33:42,680 --> 01:33:45,559
Speaker 1: enjoy making those, and I enjoy the Californians that come

1615
01:33:45,640 --> 01:33:47,640
Speaker 1: up to Alaska, and I explained to them that, you know,

1616
01:33:47,680 --> 01:33:52,000
Speaker 1: these are the perfect bear cuzie for a Californian, for

1617
01:33:52,600 --> 01:33:55,320
Speaker 1: you know, a an environmentalist, if you want to call

1618
01:33:55,360 --> 01:34:00,439
Speaker 1: him an environmentalist. Yeah, it's biodegradable, it's ourgan think, it's

1619
01:34:00,439 --> 01:34:04,600
Speaker 1: a renewable resource. It's everything a Californian should like. What

1620
01:34:04,680 --> 01:34:08,599
Speaker 1: do you get for a beer couzy? Bucks? Twenty bucks,

1621
01:34:08,640 --> 01:34:12,400
Speaker 1: twenty five for a bottled, twenty for a beer cam

1622
01:34:12,479 --> 01:34:17,200
Speaker 1: So pine Martin beer coozies are a good seller. Well,

1623
01:34:17,320 --> 01:34:18,960
Speaker 1: actually I make most of them out of beaver and

1624
01:34:19,040 --> 01:34:23,280
Speaker 1: otter pine Martin headbands and hats. Probably mostly the pine

1625
01:34:23,280 --> 01:34:25,920
Speaker 1: Martin get made into the earwarmer's head bands hats. Yeah,

1626
01:34:26,640 --> 01:34:29,600
Speaker 1: it's the thing about well, basically, a pine Martin is

1627
01:34:29,600 --> 01:34:31,679
Speaker 1: the same thing as a sable. It's type of sable.

1628
01:34:32,160 --> 01:34:34,759
Speaker 1: And when you think of pine martin, once it becomes

1629
01:34:34,800 --> 01:34:38,320
Speaker 1: into a fur product, it's a sable and how that.

1630
01:34:38,400 --> 01:34:41,760
Speaker 1: I just thought they called him sable in Eurasia, that's

1631
01:34:41,760 --> 01:34:44,320
Speaker 1: where you know the Russian sable is for that. But

1632
01:34:44,360 --> 01:34:46,760
Speaker 1: it's the same animal. It's the same animal. We just

1633
01:34:46,800 --> 01:34:48,680
Speaker 1: called a pine martin. We called a pine martin when

1634
01:34:48,680 --> 01:34:51,599
Speaker 1: it's made into sable. So if you caught a bunch

1635
01:34:51,640 --> 01:34:53,800
Speaker 1: of pine martins in America and made a coat, it's

1636
01:34:53,800 --> 01:34:58,760
Speaker 1: still a stable cable ship. No, I didn't know that,

1637
01:34:59,400 --> 01:35:01,439
Speaker 1: Seth wants. I've had a top lot Manke. He used

1638
01:35:01,439 --> 01:35:03,680
Speaker 1: to put up for for a living. They had a

1639
01:35:03,720 --> 01:35:08,400
Speaker 1: top lot maker went for eighteen dollars. That's not bad.

1640
01:35:09,479 --> 01:35:14,880
Speaker 1: I've had lots of top lot Morris. Uh, Mike, you've

1641
01:35:14,920 --> 01:35:17,479
Speaker 1: brought up I noticed you brought up like the idea

1642
01:35:17,479 --> 01:35:25,360
Speaker 1: of plastics and things um that fors biodegradable, organic renewable

1643
01:35:26,000 --> 01:35:28,519
Speaker 1: Are you just being cynical, like are you anti plastic?

1644
01:35:29,080 --> 01:35:32,000
Speaker 1: Not particularly just rubbing in their nose. Yeah, Well, it's

1645
01:35:32,040 --> 01:35:34,640
Speaker 1: just that they may trying to make a point that

1646
01:35:34,880 --> 01:35:37,840
Speaker 1: you know that for is a bad thing, and when

1647
01:35:37,840 --> 01:35:43,200
Speaker 1: in reality it's exactly what those people desire, renewable, organic

1648
01:35:43,200 --> 01:35:46,600
Speaker 1: renewable resource. That's why would they not want that? But

1649
01:35:46,720 --> 01:35:50,000
Speaker 1: yet they're completely opposed to fur. You know, so I'm thinking,

1650
01:35:50,400 --> 01:35:53,320
Speaker 1: you know, this doesn't make sense. Do you understand why

1651
01:35:53,439 --> 01:35:57,000
Speaker 1: people aren't offended by leather? Like why once you pep

1652
01:35:57,240 --> 01:36:00,280
Speaker 1: fur away from something, is it so easy? Why is not?

1653
01:36:00,400 --> 01:36:04,400
Speaker 1: If that's acceptable, but you leave the fur on it

1654
01:36:04,479 --> 01:36:09,040
Speaker 1: pisces people off. It's all leather head hair on it,

1655
01:36:09,680 --> 01:36:13,200
Speaker 1: all leather head fur on it. It should come with

1656
01:36:13,200 --> 01:36:16,920
Speaker 1: a reminder it just used to be haired. I think

1657
01:36:16,960 --> 01:36:20,680
Speaker 1: he scraped it away. It speaks to the detachment that

1658
01:36:21,040 --> 01:36:23,519
Speaker 1: we as a society have from nature, and I think

1659
01:36:23,960 --> 01:36:27,639
Speaker 1: that's the biggest problem. It's why people have problems and

1660
01:36:27,680 --> 01:36:31,160
Speaker 1: want to put humans in a separate category from animals.

1661
01:36:31,240 --> 01:36:33,160
Speaker 1: I think it also comes back to what you were

1662
01:36:33,160 --> 01:36:35,280
Speaker 1: talking about with Crin's earrings. How you said no one

1663
01:36:35,280 --> 01:36:37,240
Speaker 1: would have an issue if it were a feather, But

1664
01:36:37,400 --> 01:36:40,800
Speaker 1: something about that foot, it's it's a more tangible reminder

1665
01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:43,400
Speaker 1: of this living, this thing that once was living. Like

1666
01:36:43,520 --> 01:36:46,639
Speaker 1: fur is to leather, Like leather doesn't really remind you

1667
01:36:47,080 --> 01:36:49,280
Speaker 1: just looking at it on the coat or whatever. But

1668
01:36:49,320 --> 01:36:52,240
Speaker 1: if you see something covered in fur, I don't know,

1669
01:36:52,280 --> 01:36:54,759
Speaker 1: it kind of just triggers that like, oh that was

1670
01:36:54,920 --> 01:36:57,320
Speaker 1: that was an animal? You know that law. I wanted

1671
01:36:57,320 --> 01:36:59,320
Speaker 1: to make the only me and Seth could catch beavers,

1672
01:36:59,320 --> 01:37:01,120
Speaker 1: but they had to be with a thousand dollars apiece.

1673
01:37:02,520 --> 01:37:05,200
Speaker 1: I think there should be another law that one day

1674
01:37:05,240 --> 01:37:08,760
Speaker 1: out of the year, everything that's leather has to still

1675
01:37:08,800 --> 01:37:13,840
Speaker 1: have its fur on. Yeah, that would be a hell

1676
01:37:13,880 --> 01:37:19,040
Speaker 1: of a day. People would be like, my god, my god,

1677
01:37:20,320 --> 01:37:25,360
Speaker 1: the amount of fur running around is out of control.

1678
01:37:25,920 --> 01:37:32,360
Speaker 1: Those ostrich boots would look real weird. Yeah, feathered boots

1679
01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:35,880
Speaker 1: be like Liberaci's boots. That's the text time I mentioned Liberaci.

1680
01:37:36,280 --> 01:37:38,800
Speaker 1: Do you know what? You know? Who? That is? It?

1681
01:37:39,720 --> 01:37:42,200
Speaker 1: You don't know who I mentioned it. I should probably

1682
01:37:42,200 --> 01:37:45,000
Speaker 1: get rid of that reference because I think right piano

1683
01:37:45,000 --> 01:37:50,200
Speaker 1: player type in Liberaci is a musician, American pianist. Go

1684
01:37:50,280 --> 01:37:56,400
Speaker 1: to images. Oh, very fla boyant, very flat. I'm gonna

1685
01:37:56,400 --> 01:37:58,320
Speaker 1: stop using that reference. So except he's got to be

1686
01:37:58,360 --> 01:38:02,800
Speaker 1: dead or dead? Uh? So, have you quit using footholds

1687
01:38:02,800 --> 01:38:06,599
Speaker 1: because the hemane like pretty much? Really because of personal

1688
01:38:06,680 --> 01:38:10,120
Speaker 1: feeling about humane Yeah, I think I'm being a better

1689
01:38:10,160 --> 01:38:14,160
Speaker 1: steward and better respect to the animal by killing him instant.

1690
01:38:14,240 --> 01:38:17,360
Speaker 1: I don't hardly use footholds at all. I can't think

1691
01:38:17,400 --> 01:38:19,559
Speaker 1: of any place. I actually use foot holds occasionally on

1692
01:38:19,560 --> 01:38:23,639
Speaker 1: a mink set, but predominantly all conivers. Did you look

1693
01:38:23,680 --> 01:38:25,720
Speaker 1: down on people to use foolds? No, not at all.

1694
01:38:26,439 --> 01:38:30,000
Speaker 1: Just put you personally, me personally. I just I prefer

1695
01:38:30,040 --> 01:38:33,000
Speaker 1: to use connivers myself. I feel I'm being a better,

1696
01:38:34,120 --> 01:38:36,120
Speaker 1: better stewart to the You know when you look at

1697
01:38:36,120 --> 01:38:39,320
Speaker 1: the Canadians where they have the best management practices. You know,

1698
01:38:39,360 --> 01:38:42,080
Speaker 1: they require their economers to kill an animal as a

1699
01:38:42,160 --> 01:38:45,600
Speaker 1: certain time frame and if it doesn't meet that requirement,

1700
01:38:45,640 --> 01:38:55,080
Speaker 1: it's not a legal trap. Ye speaking of the word Canada. Uh,

1701
01:38:55,439 --> 01:39:00,639
Speaker 1: what's the parker company can a Goose? Yeah? So they

1702
01:39:00,680 --> 01:39:03,760
Speaker 1: had a hit park of everybody else on wanted one.

1703
01:39:05,040 --> 01:39:07,960
Speaker 1: I'm guessing they started out being cool with like sled doggers,

1704
01:39:08,000 --> 01:39:10,880
Speaker 1: and then they just got cool city people New York.

1705
01:39:10,920 --> 01:39:12,960
Speaker 1: I mean everyone in New York, cana want to just

1706
01:39:13,000 --> 01:39:16,400
Speaker 1: go to Soho and it's like everyone's got the same coat,

1707
01:39:16,479 --> 01:39:19,400
Speaker 1: looks the same. And this company is in Canada, not

1708
01:39:19,479 --> 01:39:24,000
Speaker 1: in Canada, Canada. So Canada Goose is a parker company

1709
01:39:24,439 --> 01:39:28,720
Speaker 1: and they were trimming all their parks with kyote. Right.

1710
01:39:29,040 --> 01:39:32,200
Speaker 1: My understanding is one of the board members is anti

1711
01:39:32,280 --> 01:39:37,280
Speaker 1: fur and he was the one that kind of spearheaded

1712
01:39:37,439 --> 01:39:43,080
Speaker 1: to the elimination of the coyotes, but their kyote trimm parting. Historically,

1713
01:39:43,320 --> 01:39:47,840
Speaker 1: parkers were trimmed with wolverine and kyote. Um the high

1714
01:39:47,920 --> 01:39:50,000
Speaker 1: or super high end park is with wolverine because it

1715
01:39:50,040 --> 01:39:54,519
Speaker 1: doesn't freeze up and frost up. But they were buying

1716
01:39:54,600 --> 01:39:57,880
Speaker 1: this Canada Goose company was buying enough kyotes to actually

1717
01:39:57,920 --> 01:40:03,760
Speaker 1: impact the kyote market. Yeah, yeah, totally. I'd like to

1718
01:40:03,760 --> 01:40:07,040
Speaker 1: thank them, Thank you, Canada Goose. And then they came

1719
01:40:07,080 --> 01:40:09,760
Speaker 1: out and said we're gonna stop using for do a

1720
01:40:09,800 --> 01:40:12,840
Speaker 1: book report on this stuff, sort of sort of sort

1721
01:40:12,880 --> 01:40:17,599
Speaker 1: of New York Times article says Canna Goose will stop

1722
01:40:17,640 --> 01:40:24,320
Speaker 1: buying for sort of um, Cana Goose announced that's starting

1723
01:40:24,439 --> 01:40:29,600
Speaker 1: in the company will no longer buy new fur from trappers.

1724
01:40:30,960 --> 01:40:34,439
Speaker 1: By then, can in a couple of years, By then,

1725
01:40:34,520 --> 01:40:41,439
Speaker 1: can the Goose will start using reclaim for Oh that's

1726
01:40:41,439 --> 01:40:45,080
Speaker 1: what for fur that already exists in supply chain. So

1727
01:40:45,160 --> 01:40:46,800
Speaker 1: just between now and then, they're gonna buy up every

1728
01:40:46,800 --> 01:40:50,080
Speaker 1: okayot coat they can find. Yeah, but it's not fake

1729
01:40:50,160 --> 01:40:53,120
Speaker 1: for that they're replacing it with. And does it talk

1730
01:40:53,160 --> 01:40:57,160
Speaker 1: about why public pressure uh no, no, um it says

1731
01:40:57,400 --> 01:41:01,160
Speaker 1: the shift is an eco friendly measure. Year. This is

1732
01:41:01,200 --> 01:41:06,400
Speaker 1: this the CEO. This is his uh his comment the

1733
01:41:06,400 --> 01:41:09,760
Speaker 1: shift is an eco friendly measure and not related to

1734
01:41:09,800 --> 01:41:18,120
Speaker 1: public pressure from activists. I would also like to point

1735
01:41:18,160 --> 01:41:22,120
Speaker 1: out that what fills their jacket is not like some

1736
01:41:22,280 --> 01:41:28,600
Speaker 1: shaved fuzz off a bird birds feathers, and in a

1737
01:41:28,680 --> 01:41:31,920
Speaker 1: quick note to people at home, you can shear a

1738
01:41:32,040 --> 01:41:35,680
Speaker 1: sheep and then turn that sheep back out and get

1739
01:41:35,680 --> 01:41:37,600
Speaker 1: another harvest the wool off it. You can do that

1740
01:41:37,640 --> 01:41:40,880
Speaker 1: a few times. In fact, when you fill a coat

1741
01:41:41,120 --> 01:41:46,800
Speaker 1: with a goose's feathers, that's some bitch, and goose is

1742
01:41:46,880 --> 01:41:52,800
Speaker 1: not alive anymore unless it's ethically harvested down, which you

1743
01:41:52,960 --> 01:41:57,760
Speaker 1: kill the goose as opposed to the practice of life plucking. Yes,

1744
01:42:00,080 --> 01:42:01,920
Speaker 1: a lot of companies I was reading this, like Eddie

1745
01:42:01,920 --> 01:42:04,960
Speaker 1: Bau or a bunch of other companies. They find live

1746
01:42:05,080 --> 01:42:09,919
Speaker 1: plucking to be so abhorrent that they're trying to remove

1747
01:42:10,479 --> 01:42:14,000
Speaker 1: live plucked down where you just grab the burden rip

1748
01:42:14,040 --> 01:42:18,639
Speaker 1: its feathers out. They're trying to remove live plucked down

1749
01:42:18,760 --> 01:42:21,479
Speaker 1: from their supply chain, or arguing about whether they have

1750
01:42:21,600 --> 01:42:24,040
Speaker 1: live plucked down in their supply chain, because it's better

1751
01:42:24,040 --> 01:42:26,200
Speaker 1: to kill the damn goose and get its feathers than

1752
01:42:26,280 --> 01:42:31,760
Speaker 1: to rip them off alive. Hile for now, that's mean.

1753
01:42:32,720 --> 01:42:36,519
Speaker 1: It's just it's one of those things that just makes

1754
01:42:36,520 --> 01:42:38,360
Speaker 1: you sound like an old man complaining about it. So

1755
01:42:38,400 --> 01:42:43,720
Speaker 1: it's hard to complain about. But come on, man, yea,

1756
01:42:44,560 --> 01:42:46,360
Speaker 1: if people don't see it, they don't care about it.

1757
01:42:47,880 --> 01:42:53,439
Speaker 1: So you'll buy a coat filled with down from I

1758
01:42:53,479 --> 01:42:56,840
Speaker 1: don't know how many damn geese. But then you trim

1759
01:42:56,880 --> 01:43:01,320
Speaker 1: it it just it's trimmed with Kyle like that's bad.

1760
01:43:01,800 --> 01:43:07,200
Speaker 1: It's because like people can't handle like reality laid out

1761
01:43:07,240 --> 01:43:12,880
Speaker 1: in front of them. It's learned later. Because my kid's

1762
01:43:12,920 --> 01:43:18,479
Speaker 1: best friend, his daddy raises uh turkeys, and they had

1763
01:43:18,479 --> 01:43:20,559
Speaker 1: an extra one for us to have for Thanksgiving turkey.

1764
01:43:20,600 --> 01:43:22,240
Speaker 1: So I took my kid over there stay the twenty

1765
01:43:22,280 --> 01:43:28,360
Speaker 1: two to get the turkey. Uh. They'd cut the feet

1766
01:43:28,400 --> 01:43:30,800
Speaker 1: off the day before, so it wasn't fed, so it's

1767
01:43:30,800 --> 01:43:33,280
Speaker 1: crop was empty, his digestive track was emptied out. Just

1768
01:43:33,320 --> 01:43:37,599
Speaker 1: gave it water. It's in a little barn. My kid

1769
01:43:37,680 --> 01:43:40,600
Speaker 1: walked out in there and shot that turkey. Didn't even

1770
01:43:40,600 --> 01:43:42,920
Speaker 1: occur to him. To think that there was something wrong

1771
01:43:42,960 --> 01:43:50,360
Speaker 1: with it. He is very, very aware of the processes

1772
01:43:50,400 --> 01:43:52,160
Speaker 1: of life. But the fact that some people have to

1773
01:43:52,200 --> 01:43:56,360
Speaker 1: have all this ship shielded from them and any little

1774
01:43:56,439 --> 01:44:00,200
Speaker 1: visual reminder of this pisces him off. It's like, just

1775
01:44:00,240 --> 01:44:04,120
Speaker 1: like people are just becoming too like weak brained. Sure,

1776
01:44:04,280 --> 01:44:06,320
Speaker 1: it's very easy, I think not to think a little

1777
01:44:06,360 --> 01:44:10,639
Speaker 1: step further of you know, how the meats in front

1778
01:44:10,640 --> 01:44:14,880
Speaker 1: of them, or if they have a nice plush uh

1779
01:44:15,400 --> 01:44:19,840
Speaker 1: pillow on their on their sofa, how it got there

1780
01:44:20,280 --> 01:44:24,720
Speaker 1: is full of dead stuff? But the trim, now that

1781
01:44:25,560 --> 01:44:29,479
Speaker 1: that's the that's what tops it off. I'm not like

1782
01:44:29,520 --> 01:44:31,240
Speaker 1: a book burner, but if I have one of those coats,

1783
01:44:31,280 --> 01:44:32,800
Speaker 1: I'd go burn that some of a bitch and coat.

1784
01:44:36,360 --> 01:44:38,800
Speaker 1: I'm still really shocked about the live plucking there you go.

1785
01:44:38,960 --> 01:44:41,160
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. I assumed that the animal would

1786
01:44:41,160 --> 01:44:45,000
Speaker 1: be dead. So if they line it with or they

1787
01:44:45,320 --> 01:44:47,760
Speaker 1: put the caller on with fake for, then that would

1788
01:44:47,800 --> 01:44:51,439
Speaker 1: be acceptable. But yet it's a non renewable resource. No,

1789
01:44:51,560 --> 01:44:55,479
Speaker 1: it's recycled for. Yeah, they're using recycled for just go

1790
01:44:55,640 --> 01:44:57,840
Speaker 1: buy old for coats, I guess, yeah, But I don't

1791
01:44:57,880 --> 01:44:59,639
Speaker 1: see where they're going to be able to find enough

1792
01:44:59,680 --> 01:45:02,559
Speaker 1: of that to even come close to their market. So

1793
01:45:02,680 --> 01:45:05,240
Speaker 1: they'll have to turn to fake fur at some point

1794
01:45:05,720 --> 01:45:08,080
Speaker 1: or back to real fur or back to real fur

1795
01:45:08,320 --> 01:45:09,960
Speaker 1: is the only two directions because they're not going to

1796
01:45:10,040 --> 01:45:13,320
Speaker 1: find enough. And besides that, when you is your leathers

1797
01:45:13,360 --> 01:45:16,960
Speaker 1: get older, they get less and less. They know, the

1798
01:45:17,040 --> 01:45:21,760
Speaker 1: leather itself does deteriorate because you know, leather is biodegradable,

1799
01:45:21,760 --> 01:45:26,120
Speaker 1: where fake fur is not really biodegradable. So what they

1800
01:45:26,160 --> 01:45:28,839
Speaker 1: were into New York prior to this was I remember

1801
01:45:28,840 --> 01:45:31,400
Speaker 1: when like north Face puffies. Then they got into the

1802
01:45:31,439 --> 01:45:36,639
Speaker 1: Canada goose down. Everyone had a north Face black north

1803
01:45:36,680 --> 01:45:43,519
Speaker 1: Face puffy all gave away to Kyo hide. So you

1804
01:45:43,600 --> 01:45:45,000
Speaker 1: got a month and you gotta go up and start

1805
01:45:45,000 --> 01:45:49,200
Speaker 1: trapping in Alaska? What do you do the month before that?

1806
01:45:49,720 --> 01:45:51,800
Speaker 1: I'm going up to hunt coyotes for a month. You're

1807
01:45:51,840 --> 01:45:56,439
Speaker 1: going to Kyo hunting now snaring too? How many? How

1808
01:45:56,439 --> 01:45:58,720
Speaker 1: many when you go out? Like how many hours you

1809
01:45:58,800 --> 01:46:03,080
Speaker 1: putting in a day? Whatever? Whatever I can, most I can.

1810
01:46:03,720 --> 01:46:06,960
Speaker 1: And then you use all these coyotes for your Yeah,

1811
01:46:07,000 --> 01:46:09,560
Speaker 1: I'll be using them in the store. Most of the

1812
01:46:09,600 --> 01:46:12,640
Speaker 1: coyotes I want to make blankets out of okay so

1813
01:46:12,840 --> 01:46:16,920
Speaker 1: or quilts or throws you ever sell them into the

1814
01:46:16,960 --> 01:46:21,000
Speaker 1: fur markets. In the past, I always have uh is

1815
01:46:21,240 --> 01:46:23,880
Speaker 1: predominantly where all the fur went. But here just four

1816
01:46:23,960 --> 01:46:27,519
Speaker 1: years ago I started started cutting out all the middlemen

1817
01:46:27,560 --> 01:46:33,360
Speaker 1: and just making products myself. And then Rick, are you participating? Yeah,

1818
01:46:33,400 --> 01:46:34,960
Speaker 1: I'll be up there for a little bit. Um. We

1819
01:46:35,080 --> 01:46:37,639
Speaker 1: used to do it yearly and snare a whole pile

1820
01:46:37,680 --> 01:46:41,280
Speaker 1: of coyotes. Um and Uh, I've been so busy with

1821
01:46:41,320 --> 01:46:44,639
Speaker 1: other projects too. We haven't been making a living, making

1822
01:46:44,680 --> 01:46:47,559
Speaker 1: a living instead of losing money trapping. UM, So I've

1823
01:46:47,600 --> 01:46:48,920
Speaker 1: kind of had to back off a little bit on

1824
01:46:48,960 --> 01:46:51,160
Speaker 1: how much I used to trap. For a lot of years.

1825
01:46:51,160 --> 01:46:54,519
Speaker 1: We ran around and trapped almost all winter for several years,

1826
01:46:55,160 --> 01:46:57,600
Speaker 1: and we have quite the quite the pile at the

1827
01:46:57,680 --> 01:46:59,479
Speaker 1: end of the year. And that was when fur prices

1828
01:46:59,479 --> 01:47:01,160
Speaker 1: were a little bit better, and we did make a

1829
01:47:01,160 --> 01:47:04,240
Speaker 1: little money doing that. Um. Dad was getting his muskrat trap.

1830
01:47:04,720 --> 01:47:06,920
Speaker 1: UM kind of dialed in and we went and trapped

1831
01:47:06,920 --> 01:47:08,240
Speaker 1: for two weeks and I think we ended up with

1832
01:47:08,439 --> 01:47:11,639
Speaker 1: seven nine muskrats. We were just shy of a thousand.

1833
01:47:11,960 --> 01:47:13,559
Speaker 1: Oh that's right. But then in two weeks. I think

1834
01:47:13,560 --> 01:47:17,720
Speaker 1: we got seven dollars in two weeks, so when we

1835
01:47:17,800 --> 01:47:21,080
Speaker 1: sold the fur it was it was actually lucrative then

1836
01:47:21,400 --> 01:47:23,680
Speaker 1: UM and then since the fur prices have gone down,

1837
01:47:23,720 --> 01:47:25,759
Speaker 1: I've kind of backed off a little and switched gears

1838
01:47:25,760 --> 01:47:28,920
Speaker 1: into a UM guiding down Hawaiian doing some mother stuff

1839
01:47:28,960 --> 01:47:31,839
Speaker 1: with ten dollar muskrats. This trap will pay for itself

1840
01:47:31,840 --> 01:47:34,680
Speaker 1: in about four to five days, you know, on a

1841
01:47:34,760 --> 01:47:36,920
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty five dollars, and then after that it's

1842
01:47:36,920 --> 01:47:40,320
Speaker 1: all all profit. Do you think you're in? That movie

1843
01:47:40,320 --> 01:47:43,160
Speaker 1: The Mountain Men with Charlton Heston is my favorite movie

1844
01:47:43,560 --> 01:47:46,240
Speaker 1: all time. Great, it's not nearly as good as Jeremiah Johnson,

1845
01:47:46,240 --> 01:47:50,000
Speaker 1: it's better. It's actually got a lot of real problems.

1846
01:47:50,360 --> 01:47:57,080
Speaker 1: Listen that movie. What in the world, Like they didn't

1847
01:47:57,080 --> 01:48:02,880
Speaker 1: bring in a trapper to give him any insight? Like

1848
01:48:02,920 --> 01:48:04,920
Speaker 1: what those guys are doing when they're supposed trap and

1849
01:48:04,960 --> 01:48:09,320
Speaker 1: beaver makes zero sense? Absolutely correct. He's standing out in

1850
01:48:09,320 --> 01:48:12,559
Speaker 1: the middle of a pond up to his chest and

1851
01:48:12,600 --> 01:48:16,200
Speaker 1: like pulls up an empty trap and it's it's like

1852
01:48:16,640 --> 01:48:18,439
Speaker 1: they had no idea, like how and then the beaver

1853
01:48:18,560 --> 01:48:23,880
Speaker 1: they have looks like a stuffed animal. Oh yeah, horrible. Yeah,

1854
01:48:23,880 --> 01:48:26,000
Speaker 1: it's a romanticism of it though it's really it's a

1855
01:48:26,000 --> 01:48:28,479
Speaker 1: real slap. I guess like they had zero They had

1856
01:48:28,520 --> 01:48:31,080
Speaker 1: no idea what they were showing. They could have done

1857
01:48:31,120 --> 01:48:33,240
Speaker 1: a hell of a lot better and demonstrated something there.

1858
01:48:33,280 --> 01:48:34,800
Speaker 1: Parts of it they were good, but it's bad. I

1859
01:48:34,840 --> 01:48:40,280
Speaker 1: gotta tell you why the Indians are all idiots? Um

1860
01:48:40,479 --> 01:48:43,680
Speaker 1: like the Traps. It's just I used to love that

1861
01:48:43,720 --> 01:48:45,160
Speaker 1: movie and I was a kid, but I can't watch

1862
01:48:45,200 --> 01:48:48,240
Speaker 1: it now. Well, here's why I love that movie. When

1863
01:48:48,240 --> 01:48:50,880
Speaker 1: I was growing up, my dad had the winners off

1864
01:48:50,960 --> 01:48:53,519
Speaker 1: and we had a cabin in the Selkirk Mountains that

1865
01:48:53,560 --> 01:48:55,679
Speaker 1: would go in backcountry skiing, and we had a full

1866
01:48:55,720 --> 01:48:58,360
Speaker 1: trap line from where we do unload the snowball bills

1867
01:48:58,400 --> 01:48:59,800
Speaker 1: all the way up to the cabin and all around

1868
01:48:59,800 --> 01:49:03,840
Speaker 1: the cabin, and it ran off of twelve batteries that

1869
01:49:03,920 --> 01:49:06,040
Speaker 1: we had an alternator from a truck that powered the

1870
01:49:06,040 --> 01:49:07,559
Speaker 1: thing and charged the batteries, and then we had a

1871
01:49:07,560 --> 01:49:10,320
Speaker 1: haunted generator, and we had a TV with a VCR.

1872
01:49:11,080 --> 01:49:15,200
Speaker 1: And the only movie we had the cabin was The

1873
01:49:15,240 --> 01:49:19,719
Speaker 1: Mountain Man. And so I couldn't even estimate the number

1874
01:49:19,760 --> 01:49:22,040
Speaker 1: of times I've seen it. I could. I probably know

1875
01:49:22,120 --> 01:49:24,240
Speaker 1: every word in it, but it was a major part

1876
01:49:24,240 --> 01:49:26,400
Speaker 1: of my life growing up. I'd be trapping on the

1877
01:49:26,479 --> 01:49:28,519
Speaker 1: way up to the cabin. The only movie I had

1878
01:49:28,560 --> 01:49:31,080
Speaker 1: to watch was The Mountain Men up there. And so,

1879
01:49:31,280 --> 01:49:33,519
Speaker 1: you know, from when I was when we built the cabin,

1880
01:49:33,600 --> 01:49:36,280
Speaker 1: I must have been seven or eight years I suppose

1881
01:49:36,320 --> 01:49:39,000
Speaker 1: something like eight years old, maybe ish. You know, I

1882
01:49:39,080 --> 01:49:40,720
Speaker 1: had my own trap line all the way to the

1883
01:49:40,760 --> 01:49:43,040
Speaker 1: cabin to wash the mountain Men in the middle of

1884
01:49:43,080 --> 01:49:47,920
Speaker 1: nowhere in northeastern Washington. I washed again a week or

1885
01:49:47,920 --> 01:49:50,679
Speaker 1: two ago. Oh yeah, that and Jeremiah Johnson. I've seen

1886
01:49:50,800 --> 01:49:54,760
Speaker 1: far more in another movie. But Jeremiah Johnson gets better

1887
01:49:54,760 --> 01:49:57,040
Speaker 1: and better, and I think Mountain, in my mind gets

1888
01:49:57,040 --> 01:50:01,280
Speaker 1: worse worse. And I'm offended by the lack of Uh.

1889
01:50:01,320 --> 01:50:04,040
Speaker 1: I'm offended by the lack of detail. Yeah, I mean

1890
01:50:04,320 --> 01:50:07,120
Speaker 1: the accuracy is definitely not there. But I mean, have

1891
01:50:07,200 --> 01:50:10,120
Speaker 1: you ever been lost before? I fear some confused for

1892
01:50:10,200 --> 01:50:12,360
Speaker 1: a month or two, but never lost. I mean, there's

1893
01:50:12,439 --> 01:50:17,040
Speaker 1: enough one liners in it are more classic than I

1894
01:50:17,080 --> 01:50:19,439
Speaker 1: think than Jeremiah Johnson that stick with you longer. I'm

1895
01:50:19,479 --> 01:50:21,559
Speaker 1: trying to get at one of those one liners, Yeah

1896
01:50:22,120 --> 01:50:25,800
Speaker 1: fur is going to shine again. So here was the

1897
01:50:25,960 --> 01:50:30,120
Speaker 1: end of the rendezvous era eighteen forties. The fur market

1898
01:50:30,280 --> 01:50:37,960
Speaker 1: completely collapses. In the fur market collapse and they are despondent.

1899
01:50:39,240 --> 01:50:44,360
Speaker 1: It's done forever, okay. And as we know, it has

1900
01:50:44,400 --> 01:50:48,360
Speaker 1: been up and down a lot since then. During the

1901
01:50:48,439 --> 01:50:54,920
Speaker 1: Roaring twenties, prior to the Great Depression, for prices shot

1902
01:50:54,960 --> 01:51:02,280
Speaker 1: up and we're great. Um they got good. Thirty forty

1903
01:51:02,360 --> 01:51:07,240
Speaker 1: years later they got really good again. Um, they've had

1904
01:51:07,320 --> 01:51:09,880
Speaker 1: various spikes and things like some things that go up

1905
01:51:09,880 --> 01:51:14,440
Speaker 1: and down. Right now, it's just like fur prices commercial

1906
01:51:14,479 --> 01:51:20,559
Speaker 1: for son again. Yeah, yeah, will fur shine again? Like,

1907
01:51:20,680 --> 01:51:22,439
Speaker 1: is is there a way in which all of a

1908
01:51:22,479 --> 01:51:26,439
Speaker 1: sudden someday kids will be starting out, going out making

1909
01:51:26,479 --> 01:51:31,120
Speaker 1: a bunch of money trapping? I'm not seeing it. You

1910
01:51:31,120 --> 01:51:34,320
Speaker 1: don't need it. All happen are trapping? Are the numbers

1911
01:51:34,320 --> 01:51:39,439
Speaker 1: of trappers? I heard a great statistic in Michigan. This

1912
01:51:39,520 --> 01:51:42,160
Speaker 1: is years ago. At a point in Michigan, I heard

1913
01:51:42,200 --> 01:51:46,759
Speaker 1: that the average age of a fur trapper went up

1914
01:51:46,840 --> 01:51:53,599
Speaker 1: exactly one year every year pointing to zero. Makes sense

1915
01:51:54,960 --> 01:51:58,439
Speaker 1: new folk coming in. But that was during a period

1916
01:51:58,439 --> 01:52:01,880
Speaker 1: of very low fur prices. I got into it and

1917
01:52:01,920 --> 01:52:05,760
Speaker 1: still dabble with the discipline today because of the influence

1918
01:52:05,840 --> 01:52:10,519
Speaker 1: of the fur boom of the late seventies and early eighties.

1919
01:52:11,520 --> 01:52:15,200
Speaker 1: That grabbed me that you could make more money. You

1920
01:52:15,240 --> 01:52:17,479
Speaker 1: can catch two muskrats and sell them for more money

1921
01:52:17,479 --> 01:52:22,360
Speaker 1: than you'd get from mowing a big gass lawn, And

1922
01:52:22,439 --> 01:52:24,960
Speaker 1: it created a mystique in my head that still sits

1923
01:52:24,960 --> 01:52:30,280
Speaker 1: there today. That's an early memory, yeah, because people were

1924
01:52:30,760 --> 01:52:35,280
Speaker 1: people were selling five, six, seven dollar muskrats then, and

1925
01:52:35,360 --> 01:52:37,240
Speaker 1: it's still is stuck in my head, like I can't

1926
01:52:37,360 --> 01:52:40,760
Speaker 1: shake the idea when I see it. I can't when

1927
01:52:40,800 --> 01:52:44,160
Speaker 1: I see a muskrat. It still appears to me as

1928
01:52:44,200 --> 01:52:49,040
Speaker 1: a thing of value and ali out of scenario that

1929
01:52:49,080 --> 01:52:55,639
Speaker 1: it could be again is China's economy and fashion right,

1930
01:52:56,360 --> 01:53:01,200
Speaker 1: things could switch Korea, China um and all of a sudden,

1931
01:53:01,240 --> 01:53:05,639
Speaker 1: they don't care, They're onto it and they want it. Well,

1932
01:53:05,640 --> 01:53:09,439
Speaker 1: there's some studies right now about the fibers from the

1933
01:53:09,439 --> 01:53:11,960
Speaker 1: the polyesters and different things are end and up in

1934
01:53:12,000 --> 01:53:14,400
Speaker 1: the ocean and that and I can see at some

1935
01:53:14,520 --> 01:53:18,760
Speaker 1: point people are going to realize that fur is biodegreable

1936
01:53:18,800 --> 01:53:21,719
Speaker 1: and organic and some of the things we're currently using

1937
01:53:22,040 --> 01:53:26,080
Speaker 1: are not as desirable. So potentially there could be you know,

1938
01:53:26,120 --> 01:53:28,080
Speaker 1: at least some group of people that are going to

1939
01:53:28,200 --> 01:53:31,519
Speaker 1: see fur as a better alternative to what we're using now.

1940
01:53:31,840 --> 01:53:34,720
Speaker 1: That might be where it's at, like you know, the

1941
01:53:36,320 --> 01:53:41,720
Speaker 1: farm to table hunt to table to table. I think

1942
01:53:42,640 --> 01:53:44,400
Speaker 1: than we think. I mean, I don't think we're far

1943
01:53:44,439 --> 01:53:47,680
Speaker 1: away from that. Well, we're there right now. Because you

1944
01:53:47,720 --> 01:53:50,200
Speaker 1: know what I'm saving up muskrats for. It makes yourself

1945
01:53:50,200 --> 01:53:53,640
Speaker 1: a fur blanket. I need, no, I need sixty for.

1946
01:53:53,960 --> 01:53:58,240
Speaker 1: My wife wants a fur bomber jacket. Perfect. Now her

1947
01:53:58,360 --> 01:54:04,320
Speaker 1: friend this wants a fur bomber jacket. And then me

1948
01:54:04,360 --> 01:54:08,000
Speaker 1: and Seth are getting two giant blankets. Do you guys

1949
01:54:08,000 --> 01:54:10,759
Speaker 1: needed trap some muskrats? Well, we're doing our giant blankets

1950
01:54:10,760 --> 01:54:14,519
Speaker 1: out of our beavers, and we're gonna raise a ton

1951
01:54:14,560 --> 01:54:17,200
Speaker 1: of money for our land access initiative through a plan

1952
01:54:17,280 --> 01:54:20,200
Speaker 1: that the Seth doesn't know about yet. I like it.

1953
01:54:20,400 --> 01:54:23,120
Speaker 1: I like the sounds of it, and we made it.

1954
01:54:23,160 --> 01:54:26,799
Speaker 1: How many pounds of beaver sauceage you make last year? Forty?

1955
01:54:26,880 --> 01:54:30,920
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I still have a couple best for

1956
01:54:31,120 --> 01:54:33,280
Speaker 1: ever made. I know we're gonna make more so, how

1957
01:54:33,280 --> 01:54:36,760
Speaker 1: do people go find your special traps? Uh? Non grip

1958
01:54:36,800 --> 01:54:40,840
Speaker 1: traps dot com? What's it called non grip traps? So

1959
01:54:40,880 --> 01:54:46,240
Speaker 1: you just sell them directly yourself? Two year? About that?

1960
01:54:46,400 --> 01:54:48,560
Speaker 1: Not quite that many? But and how do people find

1961
01:54:48,560 --> 01:54:51,280
Speaker 1: your fur products? You make beaver wallets, what to tell

1962
01:54:51,320 --> 01:54:54,440
Speaker 1: people for for Alaska dot com? And you make all

1963
01:54:54,560 --> 01:54:58,520
Speaker 1: manner of where you make all kinds of things. I

1964
01:54:58,560 --> 01:55:01,360
Speaker 1: make coasters out of the beaver ales, and that was

1965
01:55:01,400 --> 01:55:03,760
Speaker 1: all kinds of things that pretty much use the entire beaver.

1966
01:55:03,880 --> 01:55:07,600
Speaker 1: I sell the beaver teeth, sell the meat. Sled doggers. No,

1967
01:55:07,640 --> 01:55:13,440
Speaker 1: we don't have any sled doggers where I'm at. Yeah.

1968
01:55:14,360 --> 01:55:17,280
Speaker 1: And then Rick, how do people find all your how

1969
01:55:17,280 --> 01:55:19,360
Speaker 1: did how do they go hunting and fishing with you? Oh? Man,

1970
01:55:19,400 --> 01:55:25,200
Speaker 1: that's UM chrome Chasers dot com. Chrome Chasers dot that's

1971
01:55:25,200 --> 01:55:28,360
Speaker 1: for Steelhead. And then we actually just started a fall

1972
01:55:28,440 --> 01:55:32,040
Speaker 1: foraging week long trip to where we go and basically

1973
01:55:32,080 --> 01:55:35,640
Speaker 1: immerse ourselves in southeast Alaska. UM. We do some fishing,

1974
01:55:35,800 --> 01:55:40,560
Speaker 1: We do clamming, shrimp, crab, catch some salmon, and then

1975
01:55:40,560 --> 01:55:44,160
Speaker 1: we go back and do almost preparation preservation cooking type

1976
01:55:44,160 --> 01:55:47,320
Speaker 1: classes and we pick a lot of wild mushrooms. Um.

1977
01:55:47,360 --> 01:55:49,880
Speaker 1: And you basically go out and get everything you make

1978
01:55:49,920 --> 01:55:52,320
Speaker 1: for a meal that night, and then we go over

1979
01:55:52,360 --> 01:55:55,320
Speaker 1: some can canning technique, smoking techniques for fish, all of that.

1980
01:55:55,520 --> 01:55:58,160
Speaker 1: So that's something new, we're we're we've just adapted last year.

1981
01:55:58,600 --> 01:56:00,440
Speaker 1: That's not a wrangle and it's not a goo. Yeah,

1982
01:56:00,440 --> 01:56:02,760
Speaker 1: And that'll be late summer fall, So the foraging trips

1983
01:56:02,760 --> 01:56:05,720
Speaker 1: are late summer fall and then spring steel head fishing

1984
01:56:05,880 --> 01:56:07,520
Speaker 1: is in the springtime. And what if they want to

1985
01:56:07,520 --> 01:56:09,320
Speaker 1: go catch bone fish in Hawaii. If they want to

1986
01:56:09,320 --> 01:56:11,200
Speaker 1: go catch a bone fish in Hawaii, it's Hawaii on

1987
01:56:11,240 --> 01:56:14,480
Speaker 1: the Fly. Um. I work for a getting Mike Kennessey, Um.

1988
01:56:14,760 --> 01:56:17,080
Speaker 1: Captain Kenny Carrs is the other guy down there. Um,

1989
01:56:17,160 --> 01:56:19,760
Speaker 1: he can get you set up if I'm not there. Um.

1990
01:56:19,800 --> 01:56:21,800
Speaker 1: And that's a bone fish down there. Um. The ranch

1991
01:56:21,840 --> 01:56:23,560
Speaker 1: I work for is a private ranch which is a

1992
01:56:23,640 --> 01:56:27,480
Speaker 1: whole private deal on Molakai. Um. So unfortunately you can't

1993
01:56:27,480 --> 01:56:30,720
Speaker 1: go do that. That's an invite only. But the Oahu

1994
01:56:30,880 --> 01:56:33,120
Speaker 1: bone fish program is Hawaii on the Fly. And then

1995
01:56:33,240 --> 01:56:36,760
Speaker 1: Rick Mattney Outdoors is uh is my outfitting business here

1996
01:56:36,880 --> 01:56:39,800
Speaker 1: and I've been doing it long enough now to where

1997
01:56:40,600 --> 01:56:43,680
Speaker 1: my clientele list um is the same guys every year.

1998
01:56:43,800 --> 01:56:47,600
Speaker 1: And I don't even have a website even Yeah, you

1999
01:56:47,640 --> 01:56:49,440
Speaker 1: have to know one of my clients before you get

2000
01:56:49,440 --> 01:56:53,280
Speaker 1: in kind of deal from yeah and for better for worse.

2001
01:56:53,360 --> 01:56:55,520
Speaker 1: That's the position I am. I haven't put any energy

2002
01:56:55,560 --> 01:56:59,320
Speaker 1: into even a website or advertising. Um. I I feel

2003
01:56:59,320 --> 01:57:02,160
Speaker 1: like it's almost a disservice to my current clients to

2004
01:57:02,360 --> 01:57:04,120
Speaker 1: do that. UM. I don't want to grow and be

2005
01:57:04,240 --> 01:57:07,000
Speaker 1: huge in Montana and have do a ton of trips.

2006
01:57:07,040 --> 01:57:09,520
Speaker 1: I don't think the resource in Montana and the fishing

2007
01:57:09,560 --> 01:57:13,160
Speaker 1: outfitting business is sustainable at the growth rate that it

2008
01:57:13,280 --> 01:57:15,400
Speaker 1: is now. So I'm not going to try to grow

2009
01:57:15,480 --> 01:57:17,560
Speaker 1: my business to become part of you don't see you

2010
01:57:17,600 --> 01:57:19,040
Speaker 1: don't want to add. I don't want to add to

2011
01:57:19,040 --> 01:57:24,200
Speaker 1: the insanity. Yeah, I see it being a problem. So

2012
01:57:24,240 --> 01:57:26,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna just personally limit the number of days I do.

2013
01:57:26,720 --> 01:57:29,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take the guys that I like, UM and

2014
01:57:29,240 --> 01:57:32,560
Speaker 1: just limit my impact about loving It's death. Man Hooly

2015
01:57:32,800 --> 01:57:36,520
Speaker 1: smokes that that's bad. Some of the some of the

2016
01:57:36,560 --> 01:57:41,800
Speaker 1: summertime fly fishing rivers here, it's just on believable. It's changed,

2017
01:57:41,840 --> 01:57:43,440
Speaker 1: it's different. You know, but the fish it's like the

2018
01:57:43,480 --> 01:57:46,320
Speaker 1: Maze's Day parade. Oh yeah, but the fish are fine,

2019
01:57:46,360 --> 01:57:50,560
Speaker 1: you know, the biologists the fish aren't even native most part. Yeah,

2020
01:57:50,800 --> 01:57:52,840
Speaker 1: a lot of them are. Yeah. And and so are

2021
01:57:52,880 --> 01:57:55,320
Speaker 1: we hurting the resource by doing it? Probably not. Are

2022
01:57:55,360 --> 01:57:58,840
Speaker 1: we hurting the quality of the experience probably Yes. That'll

2023
01:57:58,880 --> 01:58:01,160
Speaker 1: catch up to itself, for it will and people will

2024
01:58:01,160 --> 01:58:03,680
Speaker 1: start to look for other things. So um but yeah.

2025
01:58:03,680 --> 01:58:05,480
Speaker 1: So anyways, I don't have a website for my Montana

2026
01:58:05,480 --> 01:58:09,080
Speaker 1: alf any business. Um Rick Mattney Outdoors is what I

2027
01:58:09,120 --> 01:58:12,360
Speaker 1: call my business. Um So yeah. Other than that, you know,

2028
01:58:12,360 --> 01:58:14,360
Speaker 1: I kind of run around. I do the cooking stuff

2029
01:58:14,400 --> 01:58:17,920
Speaker 1: for you guys obviously here and there. Um And wild

2030
01:58:17,920 --> 01:58:21,760
Speaker 1: game chef dot Com is my wild cooking business, and

2031
01:58:22,040 --> 01:58:24,440
Speaker 1: I'm starting to do in home wild game cooking classes

2032
01:58:24,480 --> 01:58:27,240
Speaker 1: as well as some cooking classes out at Ross Creek Cabins,

2033
01:58:27,600 --> 01:58:29,960
Speaker 1: which is locally here in town. And so I'm going

2034
01:58:30,000 --> 01:58:32,760
Speaker 1: to start working on some stuff there too as well. Man.

2035
01:58:33,000 --> 01:58:36,160
Speaker 1: Any uh, you have a fair bit of time and

2036
01:58:36,240 --> 01:58:41,120
Speaker 1: website management. Yeah, I don't have any time into it.

2037
01:58:41,240 --> 01:58:43,200
Speaker 1: I don't know what even what a web website is.

2038
01:58:43,240 --> 01:58:45,280
Speaker 1: I'm I got guys that helped me out. You know,

2039
01:58:45,320 --> 01:58:47,760
Speaker 1: I help people. You know, I'm a big fan of

2040
01:58:47,760 --> 01:58:49,960
Speaker 1: the barter system. You know, it's it costs a lot

2041
01:58:49,960 --> 01:58:52,280
Speaker 1: of money to hire someone to do a website. But

2042
01:58:52,360 --> 01:58:54,560
Speaker 1: you know, some guys like to want to have a

2043
01:58:54,600 --> 01:58:57,720
Speaker 1: hunting experience in Montana, and it's like, okay, well you

2044
01:58:57,760 --> 01:58:59,400
Speaker 1: come out to Montana, you and I will go tromp

2045
01:58:59,400 --> 01:59:01,080
Speaker 1: around the woods and you help me with a website.

2046
01:59:01,120 --> 01:59:02,600
Speaker 1: There's there's a lot of trading to be done in

2047
01:59:02,640 --> 01:59:06,200
Speaker 1: the outdoor world. For sure. It doesn't include monetary stuff,

2048
01:59:06,240 --> 01:59:09,240
Speaker 1: and especially since you know the way the government and

2049
01:59:09,280 --> 01:59:11,480
Speaker 1: taxes and everything else are going these days, I like

2050
01:59:11,520 --> 01:59:14,000
Speaker 1: to keep as much of that out of their uh,

2051
01:59:14,360 --> 01:59:17,680
Speaker 1: their site as possible, reduced the amount of cash flowing around.

2052
01:59:19,000 --> 01:59:21,600
Speaker 1: Big fan of the barter system. Alright, guys, well thanks

2053
01:59:21,600 --> 01:59:24,320
Speaker 1: for coming on. Um. There's a couple of things I like.

2054
01:59:24,720 --> 01:59:29,760
Speaker 1: Is that method of not playing by the rules. I

2055
01:59:29,760 --> 01:59:31,640
Speaker 1: don't mean with hunting fishing rules, but I mean like

2056
01:59:31,680 --> 01:59:37,800
Speaker 1: assembling lives out of just the stuff that interests you. Yeah,

2057
01:59:38,000 --> 01:59:40,160
Speaker 1: and not being like beholden to the man, but it's

2058
01:59:40,200 --> 01:59:43,440
Speaker 1: going out and like crafting a way to live where

2059
01:59:43,440 --> 01:59:47,400
Speaker 1: you're like like working with what's there and like building

2060
01:59:47,440 --> 01:59:50,240
Speaker 1: an outdoor life. Yeah, sometimes you have to figure out

2061
01:59:50,240 --> 01:59:53,080
Speaker 1: how to make money on your way to making money. Yeah.

2062
01:59:53,240 --> 01:59:54,480
Speaker 1: So you know, if you got to go over here

2063
01:59:54,520 --> 01:59:56,000
Speaker 1: to do something, it's not a lot of work to

2064
01:59:56,000 --> 01:59:57,720
Speaker 1: stop and check a trap. If you're doing that same

2065
01:59:57,760 --> 02:00:00,240
Speaker 1: path every day, there's an extra twenty buck. So you know,

2066
02:00:00,280 --> 02:00:02,360
Speaker 1: if you catch a beaver nextra hundred dollars, you catch

2067
02:00:02,360 --> 02:00:05,640
Speaker 1: a guy out on the way. Yeah, yeah, I appreciate it, man,

2068
02:00:05,680 --> 02:00:10,480
Speaker 1: like assembling, assembling livelihoods at all these outdoor interests and

2069
02:00:10,560 --> 02:00:12,360
Speaker 1: being a living life where you're out and doing your

2070
02:00:12,360 --> 02:00:15,600
Speaker 1: own thing and working for yourself. It's cool. Thank you

2071
02:00:15,680 --> 02:00:18,360
Speaker 1: very much for coming on. Thank you, thank you,