WEBVTT - Midnight Run | Archive 0:00:03.870 --> 0:00:05.809 What kind of a show are you guys putting on 0:00:05.850 --> 0:00:06.330 here today? 0:00:06.470 --> 0:00:08.809 You're not interested in art? No. Well, look, we're going 0:00:08.850 --> 0:00:10.600 to do this thing. We're going to have a conversation. 0:00:13.260 --> 0:00:14.140 Hey, film spotters. 0:00:14.500 --> 0:00:18.200 On Friday, Josh, we will have a recommendation and a 0:00:18.260 --> 0:00:23.680 golden brick nomination for a new movie out in limited release. 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:27.490 It's called It Ends. And you have to call it 0:00:27.530 --> 0:00:30.450 a road trip movie, not a fun road trip movie, 0:00:30.690 --> 0:00:34.370 but a road trip movie as... They really do spend 0:00:35.690 --> 0:00:38.750 almost the entire runtime of the film in a car, 0:00:39.610 --> 0:00:40.670 driving in a car. 0:00:41.229 --> 0:00:43.330 You could say it's the ultimate road trip movie. 0:00:43.390 --> 0:00:47.220 The ultimate road trip movie. They should have brought more snacks. 0:00:47.620 --> 0:00:50.280 They really should have stopped at a 7-Eleven and loaded up. 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:51.260 Absolutely. 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:55.100 They needed more provisions for this trip. And that got 0:00:55.140 --> 0:00:59.760 us thinking about other memorable road trip movies. road trip 0:00:59.780 --> 0:01:03.280 movies we've discussed, maybe given the sacred cow treatment to. 0:01:03.940 --> 0:01:06.200 And of course, that got us thinking about one that's 0:01:06.410 --> 0:01:11.550 in our pantheon, yes, of all time greats, Midnight Run. 0:01:12.610 --> 0:01:13.190 It's that good. 0:01:13.790 --> 0:01:17.230 It is. Yeah, if already you're scoffing, we hope you 0:01:17.330 --> 0:01:19.950 continue listening because I think we make a good case 0:01:19.990 --> 0:01:20.259 for it. 0:01:20.650 --> 0:01:23.720 Yeah, continue scoffing right up until about, I don't know, 0:01:23.819 --> 0:01:26.459 eight minutes into our conversation and then you'll be convinced. 0:01:26.940 --> 0:01:27.380 There you go. 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:32.170 We'll see if that's the mark or not mileage mileage 0:01:32.230 --> 0:01:32.770 may vary. 0:01:33.090 --> 0:01:34.970 I'll leave you. I'll leave you with that. 0:01:35.050 --> 0:01:39.550 Here is our conversation from 2023 as a film spotting 0:01:39.590 --> 0:01:42.730 family member, you get access to conversations like this one 0:01:42.990 --> 0:01:45.850 at your fingertips. Anytime you want just one of the 0:01:45.890 --> 0:01:49.220 benefits of being a film spotting family member. You can 0:01:49.230 --> 0:01:51.970 learn more at film spotting family.com. 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:58.820 Enjoy. Robert De Niro is a bounty hunter. Your mother 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:00.740 ever teach you how to talk nice to people and 0:02:00.780 --> 0:02:01.700 not shoot at them? 0:02:01.900 --> 0:02:05.690 Charles Brodin is an accountant who embezzled $ 15 million from 0:02:05.750 --> 0:02:06.230 the mob. 0:02:06.750 --> 0:02:09.250 It is truly in your best interest to just relax. 0:02:09.650 --> 0:02:12.270 I'm totally relaxed. I want this guy taken off. I 0:02:12.310 --> 0:02:15.010 want him taken off fast. The mob wants him dead. 0:02:16.690 --> 0:02:19.590 The FBI want him alive. I'm going to bring him 0:02:19.650 --> 0:02:23.530 into federal court. Do I make myself understood? These sunglasses, 0:02:23.570 --> 0:02:26.570 they're really nice. Are they government-issued, or do all you 0:02:26.590 --> 0:02:28.570 guys go to the same store to get them? And 0:02:28.630 --> 0:02:30.169 his bail bondsman wants. 0:02:30.010 --> 0:02:30.670 Him in L.A. 0:02:31.169 --> 0:02:31.970 In 72 hours. 0:02:32.130 --> 0:02:34.790 Josh, you know how presidents will often pardon a bunch 0:02:34.830 --> 0:02:36.410 of folks just before leaving office? 0:02:37.070 --> 0:02:37.290 Yes. 0:02:37.850 --> 0:02:41.350 Well, it's similar with film-spotting hosts in the Pantheon. At 0:02:41.389 --> 0:02:44.269 least it was with your predecessor. What better way to 0:02:44.330 --> 0:02:46.829 commemorate the last show of a guy I was introduced 0:02:46.889 --> 0:02:50.110 to and only really ever referred to as Matty Ballgame 0:02:50.610 --> 0:02:55.330 than to share our top five movie character nicknames? Indiana 0:02:55.370 --> 0:02:58.510 Jones came in at number two for Maddie. The Duke, 0:02:59.070 --> 0:03:02.870 as in John Mardukas, not Wayne, didn't actually end up 0:03:02.930 --> 0:03:06.630 on his list. But with that episode, both Steven Spielberg's 0:03:06.690 --> 0:03:09.910 Raiders of the Lost Ark and Martin Bress' Midnight Run 0:03:10.630 --> 0:03:16.290 were enshrined forever. Or forever-ish, as we're currently rethinking the 0:03:16.330 --> 0:03:20.700 Pantheon's purpose, process, and picks. I think it's fair to 0:03:20.740 --> 0:03:23.360 say that Midnight Run has always been the Pantheon's most 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:28.859 head-scratching inductee. Sure, many a Gen X man like myself, Maddie, 0:03:29.300 --> 0:03:33.100 and Maddie's former Chicago roommate, show producer and co-founder Sam 0:03:33.150 --> 0:03:35.800 Van Halgren, have always had a soft spot for it. 0:03:36.630 --> 0:03:39.850 One of the all-time great films, though, on the same 0:03:39.910 --> 0:03:43.890 list as The Godfather Part II, Taxi Driver, and Goodfellas, 0:03:44.730 --> 0:03:47.510 Run may not be as revered as that trio of 0:03:47.550 --> 0:03:50.700 films that also happen to star Robert De Niro But 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:53.760 it does hold the 95% on Rotten Tomatoes, and also 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:57.340 has the distinction of getting the Chicago Way seal of approval. 0:03:58.230 --> 0:04:00.550 All four of the city's major print critics at the 0:04:00.590 --> 0:04:05.730 time were favorable. In his three-and-a-half-star Sun-Times review, Roger Ebert wrote, 0:04:06.010 --> 0:04:07.950 Whoever cast De Niro and Grodin must have had a 0:04:08.010 --> 0:04:10.130 sixth sense for the chemistry they would have. They worked 0:04:10.180 --> 0:04:12.580 together so smoothly and with such an evident sense of 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:16.839 fun that even their silences are intriguing. Ebert's best frenemy 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:20.930 Gene Siskel called it, Funny, unpredictable, and refreshingly adult in 0:04:20.950 --> 0:04:24.710 the Tribune, Trib colleague Dave Kerr said, Midnight Run touches 0:04:24.770 --> 0:04:26.870 on one of the great mysteries of the movies. How 0:04:26.950 --> 0:04:29.210 is it that the tritest material can come to life 0:04:29.670 --> 0:04:32.120 when touched by the right director and the right actors? 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:36.419 Even the Chicago Reader's Jonathan Rosenbaum was along for the 0:04:36.460 --> 0:04:37.400 cross-country ride. 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:38.599 Mostly. 0:04:39.220 --> 0:04:41.680 Thanking the performances of De Niro and Grodin for turning 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:45.680 this sow's ear into a plausible vehicle for a buddy movie. 0:04:46.610 --> 0:04:50.029 Turns out, The case of Jonathan Rosenbaum's Midnight Run reaction 0:04:50.529 --> 0:04:54.410 is as curious as the movie's pantheon inclusion. Run's 25th 0:04:54.470 --> 0:04:57.870 anniversary in 2013 offered Rosenbaum the opportunity to reflect on 0:04:57.890 --> 0:05:01.760 his original take and on the presumptions film critics invariably 0:05:01.820 --> 0:05:05.800 make when writing their reviews. He offered four different exhibits. 0:05:06.300 --> 0:05:09.180 Here's the opening to Exhibit A, which he began scribing 0:05:09.220 --> 0:05:12.060 a few hours after walking out of the theater. If 0:05:12.100 --> 0:05:15.830 it were merely a matter of script, direction, and technical credits... 0:05:16.070 --> 0:05:19.130 This formula cross-country chase comedy wouldn't be worth a minute 0:05:19.150 --> 0:05:21.510 of one's time, much less the price of a movie ticket. 0:05:22.089 --> 0:05:24.240 Martin Bress, who launched his career a little over a 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:28.339 decade ago by leaping from a forgettable $ 33, 000 independent feature 0:05:28.380 --> 0:05:31.500 called Hot Tomorrows to a $ 5 million heist comedy called 0:05:31.540 --> 0:05:34.609 Going in Style, followed by Beverly Hills Cop, comes on 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:37.950 like a competent, if faceless, TV director, scoring with all 0:05:37.990 --> 0:05:41.350 the desired effects of his mechanical mise-en-scene, but leaving no 0:05:41.390 --> 0:05:45.000 discernible memory traces behind him. The script by George Gallo, 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:48.440 a newcomer whose only previously produced screenplay was for Wise Guys, 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:51.739 is as formulaic as they come, even down to multiple 0:05:51.779 --> 0:05:54.120 and periodic plot twists that seem to come along before 0:05:54.220 --> 0:05:58.860 every invisible station break. Danny Elfman's pop score is aggressively banal, 0:05:59.300 --> 0:06:03.469 and Donald Thorne's cinematography is thoroughly unremarkable. What this movie 0:06:03.490 --> 0:06:06.529 has is lively performances by two of the best actors 0:06:06.570 --> 0:06:09.730 in the business, Robert De Niro and Charles Grodin. Without them, 0:06:10.190 --> 0:06:12.049 it would be little more than a hole in the screen. 0:06:13.290 --> 0:06:16.520 The following night, he took a look at one of 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:19.680 those Brest films he mentions, Going in Style, which led 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:22.900 to a new reaction, Exhibit B. While I still haven't 0:06:22.940 --> 0:06:25.599 caught up with Beverly Hills Cop, Martin Brest's other features 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:28.470 to date all have certain traits in common. Hot Tomorrows, 0:06:28.610 --> 0:06:31.310 Going in Style, and Midnight Run are all mainly comic 0:06:31.350 --> 0:06:35.489 buddy movies with melancholy subtext. All encourage their lead actors 0:06:35.510 --> 0:06:37.620 to ham it up, and each has an aggressive and 0:06:37.690 --> 0:06:41.740 synthetic musical score that editorializes and not so gently prods 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:44.700 the audience, telling us how and when to react. Giving 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:47.159 actors a lot of freedom while giving spectators very little 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:51.190 freedom at all produces a strange push-me-pull-you effect reminiscent of 0:06:51.250 --> 0:06:54.529 certain popular TV series. The usual point of such shows 0:06:54.610 --> 0:06:57.490 isn't surprise, but the chance to savor minor variations on 0:06:57.510 --> 0:07:00.750 the already known. Not marveling at what Ralph Cramden says 0:07:00.810 --> 0:07:04.599 on The Honeymooners, but appreciating the particular inflection that Jackie 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:07.700 Gleason brings to the line this time. This strategy, a 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:10.730 triumph of embroidery over design, would be unthinkable without an 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:14.890 interminable backlog of familiar lines, gestures, and attitudes, and that 0:07:14.910 --> 0:07:17.450 is precisely what lurks behind De Niro's role as a 0:07:17.490 --> 0:07:22.070 bounty hunter and former cop in Midnight Run. Rosenbaum's point 0:07:22.090 --> 0:07:24.870 here is that whether De Niro and Grodin overcome the 0:07:24.890 --> 0:07:28.050 film's limitations or are a product of them is something 0:07:28.070 --> 0:07:31.990 a reviewer really can't know for sure. A third possible 0:07:32.050 --> 0:07:34.350 review of Midnight Run, he then explains, might deal with 0:07:34.410 --> 0:07:36.890 De Niro and Grodin in relation to each other. rather 0:07:36.940 --> 0:07:39.420 than as some sort of united front that functions either 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:41.460 with or against the rest of the movie. And a 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:43.940 fourth could deal with how the movie works independently of 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.640 what they bring to it. And that's when we get 0:07:46.700 --> 0:07:50.110 Exhibits C and D, which are, respectively, Josh, his most 0:07:50.170 --> 0:07:55.630 generous and harshest. That negativity aside, any movie that prompts 0:07:55.670 --> 0:07:59.640 Jonathan Rosenbaum to pen four different reviews sounds like a 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:03.180 Pantheon movie to me. But what say you? And which 0:08:03.220 --> 0:08:05.590 of his tacks will you be taking? The one that 0:08:05.630 --> 0:08:09.370 credits De Niro and Grodin for elevating undeniably formulaic material? 0:08:10.110 --> 0:08:12.570 The one that suggests Martin Bress may actually deserve some 0:08:12.590 --> 0:08:17.300 auteurist accolades? Or do you have a response so idiosyncratic 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:19.920 that you might inspire Rosenbaum to get to work on 0:08:19.980 --> 0:08:20.640 Exhibit E? 0:08:21.700 --> 0:08:23.700 Yeah, not sure if Rosenbaum is going to take another 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:27.340 whack at Midnight Run at this stage in his career. 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:31.850 We could probably jump right into the Pantheon question, but 0:08:31.870 --> 0:08:33.390 it might be more fun to save that at the 0:08:33.530 --> 0:08:37.830 end after talking about our reactions in general, and I 0:08:37.929 --> 0:08:41.770 would credit a little more highly some of those elements 0:08:41.850 --> 0:08:46.170 that Rosenbaum called out. Certainly not the strengths of the film. 0:08:46.750 --> 0:08:50.710 The strength of this movie is the star pairing. You 0:08:50.870 --> 0:08:53.650 would have to be blind to not see that. Even 0:08:53.710 --> 0:08:57.069 Rosenbaum at the very beginning saw that, despite his reservations. 0:08:57.130 --> 0:09:01.550 But I think he didn't give Brest enough credit here, 0:09:01.690 --> 0:09:04.860 along with the cinematographer he mentions, Donald E. Thorne, There 0:09:04.890 --> 0:09:09.280 is nothing revelatory here, but there is enough comic blocking 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:14.780 and sturdy action set pieces to make those elements of 0:09:14.820 --> 0:09:17.430 the movie a plus. I think they bring something to 0:09:17.450 --> 0:09:23.290 this film. Similarly, George Gallo's screenplay, I was surprised at 0:09:23.950 --> 0:09:26.610 The level of sophistication going on here, even from a 0:09:26.730 --> 0:09:30.469 structure point of view, think about how this has a 0:09:30.530 --> 0:09:35.490 very clever planes to trains to automobiles to walking on foot, 0:09:36.230 --> 0:09:40.910 circular motion, then back up that ladder again. Maybe not exactly, 0:09:41.250 --> 0:09:44.000 but pretty much back up that ladder with the nice 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:47.080 little grace note at the end of Jack Walsh saying, 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:50.020 I guess I'm walking, right? What he's not going to 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:52.870 take the cab. So that's just a little... you know, 0:09:52.929 --> 0:09:56.120 nice screenplay touch. And maybe we'll get into more of 0:09:56.179 --> 0:09:59.470 this in detail, but I think there's some interesting questions 0:09:59.530 --> 0:10:01.990 going on. on throughout the movie about what is the 0:10:02.090 --> 0:10:04.770 right thing to do? Who is doing the right thing? 0:10:05.630 --> 0:10:10.800 And again, that is a more sophisticated screenplay than what 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:16.020 Rosenbaum described, to my mind. And one of the reasons that, yes, 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:18.760 Midnight Run more than held up on this revisit for 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:23.220 me We've mentioned on previous shows how I have not 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:28.880 seen it since probably late 80s, possibly early 90s. As 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:32.400 soon as it started, though, I was taken back to 0:10:32.820 --> 0:10:35.520 where I did see this. It was definitely one of 0:10:35.580 --> 0:10:40.310 those at the neighbor's house on VHS. Wouldn't have seen 0:10:40.350 --> 0:10:43.250 it in my house. Just, you know, rated R at 0:10:43.290 --> 0:10:46.429 that point was probably not in general. I'd seen some 0:10:46.470 --> 0:10:49.150 rated R films. They weren't, you know, they weren't verboten, 0:10:49.250 --> 0:10:50.829 but this was probably not one that was going to 0:10:50.850 --> 0:10:51.470 get the pass. 0:10:51.890 --> 0:10:53.760 A lot of swearing for the Larson house. 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:55.940 A little bit, a little bit. This was definitely the 0:10:55.980 --> 0:10:59.840 neighbor's house viewing. And no wonder I loved this thing 0:10:59.860 --> 0:11:04.219 at 14. Every other line that comes out of a 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:08.170 character's mouth is some sort of smart-ass comment. And very 0:11:08.270 --> 0:11:11.250 much like Bress, Beverly Hills Cop, which we talked about 0:11:11.770 --> 0:11:15.270 on the show, Adam, I also got similar vibes to 0:11:15.490 --> 0:11:19.590 the Blues Brothers in terms of this smart-ass quality. Both 0:11:19.630 --> 0:11:24.400 of those middle school transitioning into high school favorites for Josh. 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:29.120 Still enjoyed that element. Yes, absolutely. Does every line sing? 0:11:29.140 --> 0:11:29.199 No. 0:11:30.020 --> 0:11:34.760 No. I think we've already heard maybe one that, to 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:38.109 my mind, isn't quite up to the quality of quoting 0:11:38.230 --> 0:11:42.610 or remembering. Fistophobia. Kind of groaned at fistophobia this time. 0:11:42.620 --> 0:11:44.790 Fistophobia is not one of the better lines. 0:11:44.809 --> 0:11:48.290 I got to admit. But most of these absolutely land 0:11:48.429 --> 0:11:51.630 and particularly landed for me back when I was around 0:11:51.670 --> 0:11:54.350 that age. So an incredible pleasure to see this hold 0:11:54.450 --> 0:11:57.189 up in the ways we're going to get into. I'll 0:11:57.210 --> 0:11:59.670 pause here and we'll return to De Niro and Grodin. 0:12:00.070 --> 0:12:02.410 Because I want to give that its entirely own section. 0:12:02.690 --> 0:12:04.910 But for me, yeah, pleasant surprise that some of those 0:12:05.010 --> 0:12:10.000 other elements I think are worth noting for making Midnight 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.179 Run what it is. I think the way I'd put 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:14.160 it is that this isn't a movie that's the sum 0:12:14.179 --> 0:12:16.439 of its parts, right? That all those things make it 0:12:16.540 --> 0:12:19.660 as great as it is. But man, De Niro and Grodin, 0:12:19.940 --> 0:12:22.939 they make every one of those parts glisten just a 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:27.020 little bit more so that it all comes out looking shinier. 0:12:27.650 --> 0:12:29.349 Well, I'm going to take us there. We're going to 0:12:29.390 --> 0:12:32.710 get right into De Niro and Grodin and those standout 0:12:32.770 --> 0:12:35.410 moments in the movie that really do make this film. 0:12:35.630 --> 0:12:36.490 I agree with you. 0:12:37.170 --> 0:12:39.850 But first I'll say, no, I'm not going to have 0:12:39.910 --> 0:12:44.040 anything revelatory to offer as well, nor do I find 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:47.740 anything about the filmmaking to be revelatory here. This is 0:12:47.820 --> 0:12:51.260 one of those sacred cows where it turns out I 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:53.660 had pretty much the same experience with it that I 0:12:53.700 --> 0:12:54.800 did 35 years ago. 0:12:54.860 --> 0:12:57.689 And you know what? That's That's worth something, too. 0:12:58.670 --> 0:13:03.660 It offers almost entirely the same pleasures, though I will say, 0:13:03.940 --> 0:13:05.939 and we'll get into this here more in a second, 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:10.100 I will say that some of the pathos of the 0:13:10.140 --> 0:13:14.880 film is heightened with a little bit more maturity and perspective. 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:17.800 And I certainly have a greater perspective on the acting 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.599 talents of Robert De Niro and Charles Grodin compared to 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:23.880 what I had back in 1988 when I saw this 0:13:23.940 --> 0:13:27.860 for the first of probably... 30 times on television. 0:13:27.900 --> 0:13:29.699 I'm sure it was HBO. 0:13:30.340 --> 0:13:32.580 One other quick aside, though, I said there's not going 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:34.500 to be any revelations and there. 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:35.040 Really won't be. 0:13:35.460 --> 0:13:38.380 But you mentioned titles like the Blues Brothers and you 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:40.340 think about planes, trains and automobiles and some of these 0:13:40.380 --> 0:13:44.960 other films that are touchstones. I still also found myself 0:13:45.059 --> 0:13:50.609 thinking occasionally of a movie like Heat and seeing seeing 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:54.309 his Jack Walsh character is not that too distant from 0:13:54.350 --> 0:14:00.580 his Neil McCauley character. his code, his determination to do 0:14:01.100 --> 0:14:04.620 the job the right way. He's got an integrity about him. 0:14:04.660 --> 0:14:09.220 That man, Neil McCauley, is an absolute criminal by any standard, 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:12.900 by any normal definition. But they share a lot in 0:14:13.020 --> 0:14:15.160 common in terms of their sensibility and the way they 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:18.020 view the world, also in terms of their sarcasm. So 0:14:18.340 --> 0:14:21.210 that was something, I guess, that surprised me a little bit. 0:14:21.710 --> 0:14:26.300 But before those moments of pathos really come together Josh 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:29.460 let's talk about the comedy let's talk about De Niro 0:14:29.500 --> 0:14:32.560 and how deftly he handles the comedy and people need 0:14:32.580 --> 0:14:36.210 to understand I think some folks listening will remember you 0:14:36.230 --> 0:14:38.570 know like when Analyze This came out and it was 0:14:38.790 --> 0:14:42.290 oh it's De Niro as a comedian which I understand 0:14:42.310 --> 0:14:45.130 at the time felt a little different maybe because of 0:14:45.210 --> 0:14:48.610 a recent slate of work that he'd done but back 0:14:48.710 --> 0:14:51.610 in 88 it really was a case where I don't 0:14:51.630 --> 0:14:52.989 think a lot of people were thinking of the king 0:14:53.010 --> 0:14:56.030 of comedy as an actual comedy And so to see 0:14:56.070 --> 0:14:59.030 him do straight comedy like he does here was a 0:14:59.070 --> 0:15:00.770 bit of a surprise. And then it's not a surprise 0:15:00.810 --> 0:15:04.270 at all that we find maybe the most talented actor 0:15:04.290 --> 0:15:08.610 of his generation is just as good with those comedic 0:15:08.650 --> 0:15:11.940 moments as he is with anything that's dramatic. And this 0:15:12.020 --> 0:15:15.739 is one for me that I actually have highlighted on 0:15:15.780 --> 0:15:17.740 the show before. When we did our top five Robert 0:15:17.780 --> 0:15:21.080 De Niro scenes, it was way back on episode 341. 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:23.460 I had as my number five, what is my favorite 0:15:23.500 --> 0:15:26.020 gag in this entire movie? And it's a pure De 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:30.500 Niro moment. It's the bit with the sunglasses and Yafet 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:35.040 Kodo in the car. And then as he walks away 0:15:35.780 --> 0:15:43.460 with Alonzo Mosley's badge and ID, that little unexpected turn 0:15:43.500 --> 0:15:46.980 he does, like he's a fed, like he's a G-man 0:15:47.020 --> 0:15:50.580 or whatever from... a TV show, a crime TV show, 0:15:50.980 --> 0:15:54.540 acting all suave and cool, turns to absolutely no one 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.340 and flashes the badge in this little kind of crouch position. 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:01.840 It's hilarious, something you completely don't expect from that character 0:16:02.580 --> 0:16:06.000 and adds this moment of levity and also sets up 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:08.640 what is going to become one of the recurring gags 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:12.520 throughout the film that always delivers. Every time Yafet Kodo 0:16:12.610 --> 0:16:18.010 gets pissed because someone thinks he's not Alonzo Mosley, it works. 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:23.280 Another moment of interaction between them, and it's another physical 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:26.430 bit by De Niro that stood out to me this time, 0:16:27.310 --> 0:16:31.410 is when they're on the phone, I think they've now 0:16:31.610 --> 0:16:34.130 had to get off the bus. So they're trying to 0:16:34.230 --> 0:16:37.330 get Joe Peneliano to wire them the money so they 0:16:37.370 --> 0:16:39.630 can get on a bus. They're on foot at this point. 0:16:40.150 --> 0:16:44.920 And he's getting very frustrated, even more frustrated with Peneliano's character. 0:16:45.420 --> 0:16:48.830 And he starts yelling and he says something like, don't 0:16:48.890 --> 0:16:51.830 start with me, Eddie. I will shoot him and dump 0:16:51.870 --> 0:16:55.109 him in the swamp. And they don't cut so you 0:16:55.150 --> 0:16:57.650 could see Grodin's face, but you can tell that Grodin 0:16:57.750 --> 0:17:00.810 makes a face like, come on, are you really going 0:17:00.830 --> 0:17:05.290 to do that? And De Niro, mid-yelling at Eddie, shakes 0:17:05.330 --> 0:17:07.040 his head. No, no, I wouldn't do that. 0:17:07.710 --> 0:17:09.260 I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. 0:17:10.190 --> 0:17:14.900 And something about that playfulness between them and him even 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:18.870 feeling this really tough former ex-cop, now bounty hunter, who 0:17:19.590 --> 0:17:22.710 seems to hate this guy for how annoying he's making 0:17:23.470 --> 0:17:28.830 this journey, he still has the instinct to tell him 0:17:28.869 --> 0:17:31.500 everything's okay, and he wouldn't really do that to him, 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:34.640 which reveals something about his character. And I think that 0:17:34.820 --> 0:17:38.260 goodness and that innate sense of doing the right thing, 0:17:38.580 --> 0:17:41.860 which absolutely is a through line with this film. 0:17:42.100 --> 0:17:44.359 I think that element of playfulness is crucial to De 0:17:44.380 --> 0:17:46.890 Niro's performance here, because you're right, this was his first 0:17:47.460 --> 0:17:50.369 pure comedy if you you know action comedy buddy comedy 0:17:50.390 --> 0:17:52.310 however you want to call this it's it's mostly a 0:17:52.330 --> 0:17:56.110 comedy and he is having fun with that it's not 0:17:56.150 --> 0:17:58.610 just that he can do it it's that he's clearly 0:17:58.750 --> 0:18:01.010 enjoying it i think that's what the little flashing of 0:18:01.050 --> 0:18:04.150 the badge crouch is all about as you can see 0:18:04.510 --> 0:18:06.690 how that is a character touch but it's also a 0:18:06.730 --> 0:18:11.710 deniro touch it's all about deniro showing how far he 0:18:11.770 --> 0:18:15.609 is willing to take this in terms of improvisation. I 0:18:15.630 --> 0:18:17.490 would like to think, you know, maybe that was in 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:19.760 the script. I don't know, but I do know that 0:18:19.980 --> 0:18:22.639 a ton of improvisation was at work between he and 0:18:22.660 --> 0:18:25.820 Grodin and their scenes together. And yeah, I think this 0:18:25.900 --> 0:18:28.260 is just where we see how much fun De Niro 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:31.639 is having with this. It's also, as you're describing how 0:18:31.810 --> 0:18:34.370 there are flashes of other characters he would even do later, 0:18:34.990 --> 0:18:37.670 that's because this isn't, you know, this is a slight 0:18:38.250 --> 0:18:42.190 turning of posture of the kind of guys we mostly 0:18:42.230 --> 0:18:44.400 think of when we think of De Niro, right? He's 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:48.080 not doing something incredibly different, but in a way it's 0:18:48.140 --> 0:18:52.940 even more challenging to just make that little shift. And 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:56.570 yet that small shift is why you get so many 0:18:57.109 --> 0:19:00.890 of the laughs. It's just, he still has that familiar grimace, right? 0:19:00.950 --> 0:19:03.919 But there's a little bit of a smile to it. 0:19:04.369 --> 0:19:06.969 Or at least the smile has a little less menace 0:19:07.390 --> 0:19:09.830 than it would in his other roles, in most of 0:19:09.869 --> 0:19:10.510 his other roles. 0:19:10.730 --> 0:19:14.980 But maybe, Josh, that's the only adjustment otherwise, because I 0:19:15.020 --> 0:19:16.200 think that's the secret. 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:16.860 Exactly. 0:19:16.900 --> 0:19:18.359 To him being so effective here, right? 0:19:18.619 --> 0:19:18.899 Yeah. 0:19:19.300 --> 0:19:21.359 De Niro isn't approaching it any different. 0:19:21.460 --> 0:19:21.540 Nope. 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:24.679 He's not playing any of this as comedy. He is 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.430 playing the character. He's playing the script. He's playing against 0:19:28.730 --> 0:19:33.250 the other character. It's all rooted in his character's behavior. 0:19:33.270 --> 0:19:33.350 Yeah. 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:35.639 And his character's desires. 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:42.280 What did you do? Why aren't you popping up at 0:19:42.300 --> 0:19:43.140 Chicago Police Department? 0:19:43.300 --> 0:19:44.960 Something that really doesn't concern you. 0:19:45.340 --> 0:19:50.930 She hurt you, Jack? Yeah. I'm sorry. What are you 0:19:50.990 --> 0:19:53.550 sorry about? I'm sorry you're hurt. I'm not hurt. 0:19:54.869 --> 0:19:55.689 You just said you were hurt. 0:19:55.710 --> 0:19:57.609 I'm not hurt. You just said you were hurt. I 0:19:57.609 --> 0:19:59.270 didn't say I was hurt. You said I was hurt. 0:19:59.290 --> 0:20:00.750 I asked you if you were hurt, and you said, yeah, 0:20:00.810 --> 0:20:03.109 I'm hurt. That's because you made me say it. You're 0:20:03.130 --> 0:20:04.859 starting to put words in my mouth. Jack, you're a 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:06.940 grown man. You have control over your own words. You're 0:20:06.980 --> 0:20:09.180 goddamn right I do. So here come two words for you. 0:20:09.340 --> 0:20:13.510 Shut the fuck up. He is so good with Grodin. 0:20:13.530 --> 0:20:16.169 I mean, those are the scenes where things, Grodin is 0:20:16.210 --> 0:20:18.710 good on his own. You know, I think he is, 0:20:19.109 --> 0:20:22.870 he's maybe offering, if you think about his persona, this 0:20:22.930 --> 0:20:26.750 persona of disdain, usually. He tempers that here with a 0:20:26.790 --> 0:20:30.690 surprising gentleness. So on his own, I think Grodin is good. 0:20:31.170 --> 0:20:35.830 But man, when they're together, and I think of two 0:20:35.890 --> 0:20:39.889 moments for me that are among my favorites. Look at 0:20:39.950 --> 0:20:43.830 De Niro's face. that he pulls during that moment where 0:20:44.250 --> 0:20:47.250 the Duke is having an imaginary conversation between the two 0:20:47.270 --> 0:20:49.949 of them, and he's voicing both parts on the train 0:20:49.970 --> 0:20:53.980 when they've jumped on the train. And De Niro's face 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:58.360 just goes from boiling rage to you see him being 0:20:58.580 --> 0:21:02.900 reluctantly worn down by the fact that this is so ridiculous, 0:21:02.940 --> 0:21:05.790 what he's hearing, and quite funny, that it gets reduced 0:21:05.830 --> 0:21:09.389 to this bemused simmer. And I love that in terms 0:21:09.450 --> 0:21:13.409 of just not even verbal anger, interplay between them, but 0:21:13.450 --> 0:21:16.230 just how De Niro is using his face to react. 0:21:16.850 --> 0:21:19.990 And then the other sequences, we've referenced this as well already, 0:21:20.030 --> 0:21:22.230 but where they get to work with each other rather 0:21:22.250 --> 0:21:25.770 than against each other when they pose as agents investigating 0:21:25.830 --> 0:21:27.410 counterfeit bills in that saloon. 0:21:27.930 --> 0:21:29.800 And they end up. 0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:34.480 Getting into this circular, nonsensical conversation about why the owner's 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:36.640 nickname is Red. What's the name of your establishment? 0:21:37.140 --> 0:21:37.820 Red's Corner Bar. 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:38.400 Are you Red? 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:39.060 Yes, sir. 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:44.440 You dye your hair? Why do they call you Red? 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:47.760