Speaker 1: What kind of a show are you guys putting on
Speaker 1: here today?
Speaker 2: You're not interested in art? No. Well, look, we're going
Speaker 2: to do this thing. We're going to have a conversation.
Speaker 1: Hey, film spotters.
Speaker 3: On Friday, Josh, we will have a recommendation and a
Speaker 3: golden brick nomination for a new movie out in limited release.
Speaker 3: It's called It Ends. And you have to call it
Speaker 3: a road trip movie, not a fun road trip movie,
Speaker 3: but a road trip movie as... They really do spend
Speaker 3: almost the entire runtime of the film in a car,
Speaker 3: driving in a car.
Speaker 2: You could say it's the ultimate road trip movie.
Speaker 3: The ultimate road trip movie. They should have brought more snacks.
Speaker 3: They really should have stopped at a 7-Eleven and loaded up.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: They needed more provisions for this trip. And that got
Speaker 3: us thinking about other memorable road trip movies. road trip
Speaker 3: movies we've discussed, maybe given the sacred cow treatment to.
Speaker 3: And of course, that got us thinking about one that's
Speaker 3: in our pantheon, yes, of all time greats, Midnight Run.
Speaker 1: It's that good.
Speaker 2: It is. Yeah, if already you're scoffing, we hope you
Speaker 2: continue listening because I think we make a good case
Speaker 2: for it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, continue scoffing right up until about, I don't know,
Speaker 3: eight minutes into our conversation and then you'll be convinced.
Speaker 2: There you go.
Speaker 3: We'll see if that's the mark or not mileage mileage
Speaker 3: may vary.
Speaker 1: I'll leave you. I'll leave you with that.
Speaker 3: Here is our conversation from 2023 as a film spotting
Speaker 3: family member, you get access to conversations like this one
Speaker 3: at your fingertips. Anytime you want just one of the
Speaker 3: benefits of being a film spotting family member. You can
Speaker 3: learn more at film spotting family.com.
Speaker 1: Enjoy. Robert De Niro is a bounty hunter. Your mother
Speaker 1: ever teach you how to talk nice to people and
Speaker 1: not shoot at them?
Speaker 2: Charles Brodin is an accountant who embezzled $ 15 million from
Speaker 2: the mob.
Speaker 1: It is truly in your best interest to just relax.
Speaker 2: I'm totally relaxed. I want this guy taken off. I
Speaker 2: want him taken off fast. The mob wants him dead.
Speaker 2: The FBI want him alive. I'm going to bring him
Speaker 2: into federal court. Do I make myself understood? These sunglasses,
Speaker 2: they're really nice. Are they government-issued, or do all you
Speaker 2: guys go to the same store to get them? And
Speaker 2: his bail bondsman wants.
Speaker 3: Him in L.A.
Speaker 2: In 72 hours.
Speaker 3: Josh, you know how presidents will often pardon a bunch
Speaker 3: of folks just before leaving office?
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 3: Well, it's similar with film-spotting hosts in the Pantheon. At
Speaker 3: least it was with your predecessor. What better way to
Speaker 3: commemorate the last show of a guy I was introduced
Speaker 3: to and only really ever referred to as Matty Ballgame
Speaker 3: than to share our top five movie character nicknames? Indiana
Speaker 3: Jones came in at number two for Maddie. The Duke,
Speaker 3: as in John Mardukas, not Wayne, didn't actually end up
Speaker 3: on his list. But with that episode, both Steven Spielberg's
Speaker 3: Raiders of the Lost Ark and Martin Bress' Midnight Run
Speaker 3: were enshrined forever. Or forever-ish, as we're currently rethinking the
Speaker 3: Pantheon's purpose, process, and picks. I think it's fair to
Speaker 3: say that Midnight Run has always been the Pantheon's most
Speaker 3: head-scratching inductee. Sure, many a Gen X man like myself, Maddie,
Speaker 3: and Maddie's former Chicago roommate, show producer and co-founder Sam
Speaker 3: Van Halgren, have always had a soft spot for it.
Speaker 3: One of the all-time great films, though, on the same
Speaker 3: list as The Godfather Part II, Taxi Driver, and Goodfellas,
Speaker 3: Run may not be as revered as that trio of
Speaker 3: films that also happen to star Robert De Niro But
Speaker 3: it does hold the 95% on Rotten Tomatoes, and also
Speaker 3: has the distinction of getting the Chicago Way seal of approval.
Speaker 3: All four of the city's major print critics at the
Speaker 3: time were favorable. In his three-and-a-half-star Sun-Times review, Roger Ebert wrote,
Speaker 3: Whoever cast De Niro and Grodin must have had a
Speaker 3: sixth sense for the chemistry they would have. They worked
Speaker 3: together so smoothly and with such an evident sense of
Speaker 3: fun that even their silences are intriguing. Ebert's best frenemy
Speaker 3: Gene Siskel called it, Funny, unpredictable, and refreshingly adult in
Speaker 3: the Tribune, Trib colleague Dave Kerr said, Midnight Run touches
Speaker 3: on one of the great mysteries of the movies. How
Speaker 3: is it that the tritest material can come to life
Speaker 3: when touched by the right director and the right actors?
Speaker 3: Even the Chicago Reader's Jonathan Rosenbaum was along for the
Speaker 3: cross-country ride.
Speaker 1: Mostly.
Speaker 3: Thanking the performances of De Niro and Grodin for turning
Speaker 3: this sow's ear into a plausible vehicle for a buddy movie.
Speaker 3: Turns out, The case of Jonathan Rosenbaum's Midnight Run reaction
Speaker 3: is as curious as the movie's pantheon inclusion. Run's 25th
Speaker 3: anniversary in 2013 offered Rosenbaum the opportunity to reflect on
Speaker 3: his original take and on the presumptions film critics invariably
Speaker 3: make when writing their reviews. He offered four different exhibits.
Speaker 3: Here's the opening to Exhibit A, which he began scribing
Speaker 3: a few hours after walking out of the theater. If
Speaker 3: it were merely a matter of script, direction, and technical credits...
Speaker 3: This formula cross-country chase comedy wouldn't be worth a minute
Speaker 3: of one's time, much less the price of a movie ticket.
Speaker 3: Martin Bress, who launched his career a little over a
Speaker 3: decade ago by leaping from a forgettable $ 33, 000 independent feature
Speaker 3: called Hot Tomorrows to a $ 5 million heist comedy called
Speaker 3: Going in Style, followed by Beverly Hills Cop, comes on
Speaker 3: like a competent, if faceless, TV director, scoring with all
Speaker 3: the desired effects of his mechanical mise-en-scene, but leaving no
Speaker 3: discernible memory traces behind him. The script by George Gallo,
Speaker 3: a newcomer whose only previously produced screenplay was for Wise Guys,
Speaker 3: is as formulaic as they come, even down to multiple
Speaker 3: and periodic plot twists that seem to come along before
Speaker 3: every invisible station break. Danny Elfman's pop score is aggressively banal,
Speaker 3: and Donald Thorne's cinematography is thoroughly unremarkable. What this movie
Speaker 3: has is lively performances by two of the best actors
Speaker 3: in the business, Robert De Niro and Charles Grodin. Without them,
Speaker 3: it would be little more than a hole in the screen.
Speaker 3: The following night, he took a look at one of
Speaker 3: those Brest films he mentions, Going in Style, which led
Speaker 3: to a new reaction, Exhibit B. While I still haven't
Speaker 3: caught up with Beverly Hills Cop, Martin Brest's other features
Speaker 3: to date all have certain traits in common. Hot Tomorrows,
Speaker 3: Going in Style, and Midnight Run are all mainly comic
Speaker 3: buddy movies with melancholy subtext. All encourage their lead actors
Speaker 3: to ham it up, and each has an aggressive and
Speaker 3: synthetic musical score that editorializes and not so gently prods
Speaker 3: the audience, telling us how and when to react. Giving
Speaker 3: actors a lot of freedom while giving spectators very little
Speaker 3: freedom at all produces a strange push-me-pull-you effect reminiscent of
Speaker 3: certain popular TV series. The usual point of such shows
Speaker 3: isn't surprise, but the chance to savor minor variations on
Speaker 3: the already known. Not marveling at what Ralph Cramden says
Speaker 3: on The Honeymooners, but appreciating the particular inflection that Jackie
Speaker 3: Gleason brings to the line this time. This strategy, a
Speaker 3: triumph of embroidery over design, would be unthinkable without an
Speaker 3: interminable backlog of familiar lines, gestures, and attitudes, and that
Speaker 3: is precisely what lurks behind De Niro's role as a
Speaker 3: bounty hunter and former cop in Midnight Run. Rosenbaum's point
Speaker 3: here is that whether De Niro and Grodin overcome the
Speaker 3: film's limitations or are a product of them is something
Speaker 3: a reviewer really can't know for sure. A third possible
Speaker 3: review of Midnight Run, he then explains, might deal with
Speaker 3: De Niro and Grodin in relation to each other. rather
Speaker 3: than as some sort of united front that functions either
Speaker 3: with or against the rest of the movie. And a
Speaker 3: fourth could deal with how the movie works independently of
Speaker 3: what they bring to it. And that's when we get
Speaker 3: Exhibits C and D, which are, respectively, Josh, his most
Speaker 3: generous and harshest. That negativity aside, any movie that prompts
Speaker 3: Jonathan Rosenbaum to pen four different reviews sounds like a
Speaker 3: Pantheon movie to me. But what say you? And which
Speaker 3: of his tacks will you be taking? The one that
Speaker 3: credits De Niro and Grodin for elevating undeniably formulaic material?
Speaker 3: The one that suggests Martin Bress may actually deserve some
Speaker 3: auteurist accolades? Or do you have a response so idiosyncratic
Speaker 3: that you might inspire Rosenbaum to get to work on
Speaker 3: Exhibit E?
Speaker 2: Yeah, not sure if Rosenbaum is going to take another
Speaker 2: whack at Midnight Run at this stage in his career.
Speaker 2: We could probably jump right into the Pantheon question, but
Speaker 2: it might be more fun to save that at the
Speaker 2: end after talking about our reactions in general, and I
Speaker 2: would credit a little more highly some of those elements
Speaker 2: that Rosenbaum called out. Certainly not the strengths of the film.
Speaker 2: The strength of this movie is the star pairing. You
Speaker 2: would have to be blind to not see that. Even
Speaker 2: Rosenbaum at the very beginning saw that, despite his reservations.
Speaker 2: But I think he didn't give Brest enough credit here,
Speaker 2: along with the cinematographer he mentions, Donald E. Thorne, There
Speaker 2: is nothing revelatory here, but there is enough comic blocking
Speaker 2: and sturdy action set pieces to make those elements of
Speaker 2: the movie a plus. I think they bring something to
Speaker 2: this film. Similarly, George Gallo's screenplay, I was surprised at
Speaker 2: The level of sophistication going on here, even from a
Speaker 2: structure point of view, think about how this has a
Speaker 2: very clever planes to trains to automobiles to walking on foot,
Speaker 2: circular motion, then back up that ladder again. Maybe not exactly,
Speaker 2: but pretty much back up that ladder with the nice
Speaker 2: little grace note at the end of Jack Walsh saying,
Speaker 2: I guess I'm walking, right? What he's not going to
Speaker 2: take the cab. So that's just a little... you know,
Speaker 2: nice screenplay touch. And maybe we'll get into more of
Speaker 2: this in detail, but I think there's some interesting questions
Speaker 2: going on. on throughout the movie about what is the
Speaker 2: right thing to do? Who is doing the right thing?
Speaker 2: And again, that is a more sophisticated screenplay than what
Speaker 2: Rosenbaum described, to my mind. And one of the reasons that, yes,
Speaker 2: Midnight Run more than held up on this revisit for
Speaker 2: me We've mentioned on previous shows how I have not
Speaker 2: seen it since probably late 80s, possibly early 90s. As
Speaker 2: soon as it started, though, I was taken back to
Speaker 2: where I did see this. It was definitely one of
Speaker 2: those at the neighbor's house on VHS. Wouldn't have seen
Speaker 2: it in my house. Just, you know, rated R at
Speaker 2: that point was probably not in general. I'd seen some
Speaker 2: rated R films. They weren't, you know, they weren't verboten,
Speaker 2: but this was probably not one that was going to
Speaker 2: get the pass.
Speaker 1: A lot of swearing for the Larson house.
Speaker 2: A little bit, a little bit. This was definitely the
Speaker 2: neighbor's house viewing. And no wonder I loved this thing
Speaker 2: at 14. Every other line that comes out of a
Speaker 2: character's mouth is some sort of smart-ass comment. And very
Speaker 2: much like Bress, Beverly Hills Cop, which we talked about
Speaker 2: on the show, Adam, I also got similar vibes to
Speaker 2: the Blues Brothers in terms of this smart-ass quality. Both
Speaker 2: of those middle school transitioning into high school favorites for Josh.
Speaker 2: Still enjoyed that element. Yes, absolutely. Does every line sing?
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: No. I think we've already heard maybe one that, to
Speaker 2: my mind, isn't quite up to the quality of quoting
Speaker 2: or remembering. Fistophobia. Kind of groaned at fistophobia this time.
Speaker 1: Fistophobia is not one of the better lines.
Speaker 2: I got to admit. But most of these absolutely land
Speaker 2: and particularly landed for me back when I was around
Speaker 2: that age. So an incredible pleasure to see this hold
Speaker 2: up in the ways we're going to get into. I'll
Speaker 2: pause here and we'll return to De Niro and Grodin.
Speaker 2: Because I want to give that its entirely own section.
Speaker 2: But for me, yeah, pleasant surprise that some of those
Speaker 2: other elements I think are worth noting for making Midnight
Speaker 2: Run what it is. I think the way I'd put
Speaker 2: it is that this isn't a movie that's the sum
Speaker 2: of its parts, right? That all those things make it
Speaker 2: as great as it is. But man, De Niro and Grodin,
Speaker 2: they make every one of those parts glisten just a
Speaker 2: little bit more so that it all comes out looking shinier.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm going to take us there. We're going to
Speaker 3: get right into De Niro and Grodin and those standout
Speaker 3: moments in the movie that really do make this film.
Speaker 1: I agree with you.
Speaker 3: But first I'll say, no, I'm not going to have
Speaker 3: anything revelatory to offer as well, nor do I find
Speaker 3: anything about the filmmaking to be revelatory here. This is
Speaker 3: one of those sacred cows where it turns out I
Speaker 3: had pretty much the same experience with it that I
Speaker 3: did 35 years ago.
Speaker 1: And you know what? That's That's worth something, too.
Speaker 3: It offers almost entirely the same pleasures, though I will say,
Speaker 3: and we'll get into this here more in a second,
Speaker 3: I will say that some of the pathos of the
Speaker 3: film is heightened with a little bit more maturity and perspective.
Speaker 3: And I certainly have a greater perspective on the acting
Speaker 3: talents of Robert De Niro and Charles Grodin compared to
Speaker 3: what I had back in 1988 when I saw this
Speaker 3: for the first of probably... 30 times on television.
Speaker 1: I'm sure it was HBO.
Speaker 3: One other quick aside, though, I said there's not going
Speaker 3: to be any revelations and there.
Speaker 1: Really won't be.
Speaker 3: But you mentioned titles like the Blues Brothers and you
Speaker 3: think about planes, trains and automobiles and some of these
Speaker 3: other films that are touchstones. I still also found myself
Speaker 3: thinking occasionally of a movie like Heat and seeing seeing
Speaker 3: his Jack Walsh character is not that too distant from
Speaker 3: his Neil McCauley character. his code, his determination to do
Speaker 3: the job the right way. He's got an integrity about him.
Speaker 3: That man, Neil McCauley, is an absolute criminal by any standard,
Speaker 3: by any normal definition. But they share a lot in
Speaker 3: common in terms of their sensibility and the way they
Speaker 3: view the world, also in terms of their sarcasm. So
Speaker 3: that was something, I guess, that surprised me a little bit.
Speaker 3: But before those moments of pathos really come together Josh
Speaker 3: let's talk about the comedy let's talk about De Niro
Speaker 3: and how deftly he handles the comedy and people need
Speaker 3: to understand I think some folks listening will remember you
Speaker 3: know like when Analyze This came out and it was
Speaker 3: oh it's De Niro as a comedian which I understand
Speaker 3: at the time felt a little different maybe because of
Speaker 3: a recent slate of work that he'd done but back
Speaker 3: in 88 it really was a case where I don't
Speaker 3: think a lot of people were thinking of the king
Speaker 3: of comedy as an actual comedy And so to see
Speaker 3: him do straight comedy like he does here was a
Speaker 3: bit of a surprise. And then it's not a surprise
Speaker 3: at all that we find maybe the most talented actor
Speaker 3: of his generation is just as good with those comedic
Speaker 3: moments as he is with anything that's dramatic. And this
Speaker 3: is one for me that I actually have highlighted on
Speaker 3: the show before. When we did our top five Robert
Speaker 3: De Niro scenes, it was way back on episode 341.
Speaker 3: I had as my number five, what is my favorite
Speaker 3: gag in this entire movie? And it's a pure De
Speaker 3: Niro moment. It's the bit with the sunglasses and Yafet
Speaker 3: Kodo in the car. And then as he walks away
Speaker 3: with Alonzo Mosley's badge and ID, that little unexpected turn
Speaker 3: he does, like he's a fed, like he's a G-man
Speaker 3: or whatever from... a TV show, a crime TV show,
Speaker 3: acting all suave and cool, turns to absolutely no one
Speaker 3: and flashes the badge in this little kind of crouch position.
Speaker 3: It's hilarious, something you completely don't expect from that character
Speaker 3: and adds this moment of levity and also sets up
Speaker 3: what is going to become one of the recurring gags
Speaker 3: throughout the film that always delivers. Every time Yafet Kodo
Speaker 3: gets pissed because someone thinks he's not Alonzo Mosley, it works.
Speaker 3: Another moment of interaction between them, and it's another physical
Speaker 3: bit by De Niro that stood out to me this time,
Speaker 3: is when they're on the phone, I think they've now
Speaker 3: had to get off the bus. So they're trying to
Speaker 3: get Joe Peneliano to wire them the money so they
Speaker 3: can get on a bus. They're on foot at this point.
Speaker 3: And he's getting very frustrated, even more frustrated with Peneliano's character.
Speaker 3: And he starts yelling and he says something like, don't
Speaker 3: start with me, Eddie. I will shoot him and dump
Speaker 3: him in the swamp. And they don't cut so you
Speaker 3: could see Grodin's face, but you can tell that Grodin
Speaker 3: makes a face like, come on, are you really going
Speaker 3: to do that? And De Niro, mid-yelling at Eddie, shakes
Speaker 3: his head. No, no, I wouldn't do that.
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 3: And something about that playfulness between them and him even
Speaker 3: feeling this really tough former ex-cop, now bounty hunter, who
Speaker 3: seems to hate this guy for how annoying he's making
Speaker 3: this journey, he still has the instinct to tell him
Speaker 3: everything's okay, and he wouldn't really do that to him,
Speaker 3: which reveals something about his character. And I think that
Speaker 3: goodness and that innate sense of doing the right thing,
Speaker 3: which absolutely is a through line with this film.
Speaker 2: I think that element of playfulness is crucial to De
Speaker 2: Niro's performance here, because you're right, this was his first
Speaker 2: pure comedy if you you know action comedy buddy comedy
Speaker 2: however you want to call this it's it's mostly a
Speaker 2: comedy and he is having fun with that it's not
Speaker 2: just that he can do it it's that he's clearly
Speaker 2: enjoying it i think that's what the little flashing of
Speaker 2: the badge crouch is all about as you can see
Speaker 2: how that is a character touch but it's also a
Speaker 2: deniro touch it's all about deniro showing how far he
Speaker 2: is willing to take this in terms of improvisation. I
Speaker 2: would like to think, you know, maybe that was in
Speaker 2: the script. I don't know, but I do know that
Speaker 2: a ton of improvisation was at work between he and
Speaker 2: Grodin and their scenes together. And yeah, I think this
Speaker 2: is just where we see how much fun De Niro
Speaker 2: is having with this. It's also, as you're describing how
Speaker 2: there are flashes of other characters he would even do later,
Speaker 2: that's because this isn't, you know, this is a slight
Speaker 2: turning of posture of the kind of guys we mostly
Speaker 2: think of when we think of De Niro, right? He's
Speaker 2: not doing something incredibly different, but in a way it's
Speaker 2: even more challenging to just make that little shift. And
Speaker 2: yet that small shift is why you get so many
Speaker 2: of the laughs. It's just, he still has that familiar grimace, right?
Speaker 2: But there's a little bit of a smile to it.
Speaker 2: Or at least the smile has a little less menace
Speaker 2: than it would in his other roles, in most of
Speaker 2: his other roles.
Speaker 3: But maybe, Josh, that's the only adjustment otherwise, because I
Speaker 3: think that's the secret.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 1: To him being so effective here, right?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: De Niro isn't approaching it any different.
Speaker 2: Nope.
Speaker 3: He's not playing any of this as comedy. He is
Speaker 3: playing the character. He's playing the script. He's playing against
Speaker 3: the other character. It's all rooted in his character's behavior.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And his character's desires.
Speaker 2: What did you do? Why aren't you popping up at
Speaker 2: Chicago Police Department?
Speaker 3: Something that really doesn't concern you.
Speaker 2: She hurt you, Jack? Yeah. I'm sorry. What are you
Speaker 2: sorry about? I'm sorry you're hurt. I'm not hurt.
Speaker 1: You just said you were hurt.
Speaker 2: I'm not hurt. You just said you were hurt. I
Speaker 2: didn't say I was hurt. You said I was hurt.
Speaker 2: I asked you if you were hurt, and you said, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm hurt. That's because you made me say it. You're
Speaker 2: starting to put words in my mouth. Jack, you're a
Speaker 2: grown man. You have control over your own words. You're
Speaker 2: goddamn right I do. So here come two words for you.
Speaker 2: Shut the fuck up. He is so good with Grodin.
Speaker 2: I mean, those are the scenes where things, Grodin is
Speaker 2: good on his own. You know, I think he is,
Speaker 2: he's maybe offering, if you think about his persona, this
Speaker 2: persona of disdain, usually. He tempers that here with a
Speaker 2: surprising gentleness. So on his own, I think Grodin is good.
Speaker 2: But man, when they're together, and I think of two
Speaker 2: moments for me that are among my favorites. Look at
Speaker 2: De Niro's face. that he pulls during that moment where
Speaker 2: the Duke is having an imaginary conversation between the two
Speaker 2: of them, and he's voicing both parts on the train
Speaker 2: when they've jumped on the train. And De Niro's face
Speaker 2: just goes from boiling rage to you see him being
Speaker 2: reluctantly worn down by the fact that this is so ridiculous,
Speaker 2: what he's hearing, and quite funny, that it gets reduced
Speaker 2: to this bemused simmer. And I love that in terms
Speaker 2: of just not even verbal anger, interplay between them, but
Speaker 2: just how De Niro is using his face to react.
Speaker 2: And then the other sequences, we've referenced this as well already,
Speaker 2: but where they get to work with each other rather
Speaker 2: than against each other when they pose as agents investigating
Speaker 2: counterfeit bills in that saloon.
Speaker 1: And they end up.
Speaker 2: Getting into this circular, nonsensical conversation about why the owner's
Speaker 2: nickname is Red. What's the name of your establishment?
Speaker 1: Red's Corner Bar.
Speaker 2: Are you Red?
Speaker 3: Yes, sir.
Speaker 2: You dye your hair? Why do they call you Red?
Speaker 1: Oh, it's short for Red Wood. My last name's Wood.
Speaker 2: What's your first name? Bill. Thank you for your cooperation, Bill.
Speaker 2: Getting to see them work together in that sequence, I think,
Speaker 2: is just so great. But if you look at Grodin again,
Speaker 2: just what he's doing here, I did not remember. I
Speaker 2: was really surprised how he warms into the ridiculousness of
Speaker 2: the Duke. That first scene where we see him at
Speaker 2: the house... with the dog he doesn't really go for
Speaker 2: a laugh at all in that sequence he plays it
Speaker 2: pretty calm and I think that's all to let things
Speaker 2: build build build until the big blow up on the
Speaker 2: plane no I can't I can't.
Speaker 1: No no Of course, it's all an act.
Speaker 2: But before that, what is he doing? What is the
Speaker 2: Duke doing? He's watching. He's studying. He's examining Jack.
Speaker 1: And he's knowing exactly..
Speaker 2: What buttons to push. And then even after that blow
Speaker 2: up on the plane, he doesn't stay at that level.
Speaker 2: He goes back to being mostly serene. I love how
Speaker 2: he receives Jack's physical threats with it's almost not out
Speaker 2: of fear. He doesn't face them with fear. It's like
Speaker 2: he's disappointed in Jack. It's almost as if he's been
Speaker 2: told like they just went to an ice cream shop
Speaker 2: and they were out of his favorite flavor. That's his
Speaker 2: face when Jack threatens him physically. Yeah. He's slightly disappointed
Speaker 2: at him. And then how about the moment where the
Speaker 2: bank teller is telling Jack his card has declined and
Speaker 2: Grodin just winks. You know, winks at her like, you
Speaker 2: and I are in on this. Uh-huh.
Speaker 1: Uh-huh.
Speaker 2: So I just, you know, Grodin, as good as De
Speaker 2: Niro is, I think the secret to unlocking De Niro's
Speaker 2: performance is the presence that Grodin brings in In every moment,
Speaker 2: every single moment, the patience he has, the not going
Speaker 2: for the laugh immediately, the waiting to see what will
Speaker 2: come to him in the moment. Back to your point
Speaker 2: about Jack, because that's part of the Duke's character as well.
Speaker 1: His patience is key.
Speaker 3: His intelligence as a character and as a performer in
Speaker 3: terms of his choices is also key. It's what adds
Speaker 3: interesting layers to these characters and then ultimately to the movie.
Speaker 3: And an example of that for me is to watch
Speaker 3: it and start to see, to your point, about how
Speaker 3: he plays it, how the Duke watches, observes, takes in information,
Speaker 3: understanding that even though he seems to be the person
Speaker 3: who is in a position of helplessness, and Jack is
Speaker 3: the brute who is taking him in, and certainly can
Speaker 3: control him physically, and he suggests that he's always in
Speaker 3: control of the situation, we know from watching Grodin that
Speaker 3: actually he is slyly determining a lot of this. And
Speaker 3: that's why there's a great moment when he says something like,
Speaker 3: you know, at some point I'm going to have to
Speaker 3: give you the.
Speaker 1: Slip, right? Yeah.
Speaker 3: And he's got supreme confidence in it. And Jack doesn't
Speaker 3: understand where that's coming from and thinks that's hilarious that
Speaker 3: the Duke would ever, ever even imagine that he could
Speaker 3: get away from him.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: But we know we've been watching and we know that
Speaker 3: he's smarter and and more conniving than he seems, and
Speaker 3: that he probably has it in him. He's gotten this far.
Speaker 3: He can probably get away from Jack, right? And so
Speaker 3: here's my question for you. As you think about all that,
Speaker 3: and it sounds like you had a similar reaction to
Speaker 3: Grodin in his performance, when he says to Jack, maybe
Speaker 3: we should stop in Chicago and see your wife and
Speaker 3: daughter when he hears about their story, is that because
Speaker 3: the Duke is someone who genuinely cares about that and
Speaker 3: would actually like to go down that path and maybe
Speaker 3: help people? Is he this Pollyanna figure that he pretends
Speaker 3: to be, that he seems to be? Or is he 100%
Speaker 3: just looking for a way to continue to get Jack
Speaker 3: off his game, to get him to take different routes,
Speaker 3: to put up more obstacles and prolong this entire adventure?
Speaker 2: I think he's genuine.
Speaker 1: Or is it both?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it might be a little bit of both,
Speaker 2: but I don't think he sets that up or encourages
Speaker 2: that as his big opportunity to escape because there are
Speaker 2: plenty of other opportunities. I got the impression more is
Speaker 2: the more time they spent together, the less the Duke
Speaker 2: wanted to escape. And there's two reasons for that. One
Speaker 2: is he's actually enjoying this relationship.
Speaker 1: Maybe.
Speaker 2: And the other is he might start to feel, realize
Speaker 2: he's probably safest in Jack's hands. I mean, for as
Speaker 2: much as he thinks he's possibly smarter than him or
Speaker 2: can give him the slip, Jack has proven he can
Speaker 2: get them out of some pretty tight scrapes. And this
Speaker 2: might be, you know, just part of him realizing I'm
Speaker 2: safer at this point to ride along with this guy
Speaker 2: as long as I can. I don't know, but I
Speaker 2: do think it is connected. And the reason I think
Speaker 2: it's mostly motivated by, you know, good, thoughts or a
Speaker 2: good hope for Jack and his well-being and his relationships
Speaker 2: goes back to this thing I mentioned about the debates
Speaker 2: they have about what is the right thing to do.
Speaker 2: Was it heroic for the Duke to embezzle this money
Speaker 2: from a mobster and give it away to charity? Okay,
Speaker 2: but did he keep some? How much did he keep?
Speaker 2: Was that right? Should he have given it all away?
Speaker 2: Why is Jack pursuing this bounty? Is Jack doing it?
Speaker 2: just out of, you know, pure greed for the money?
Speaker 2: Is he, you know, on the side of the gangsters
Speaker 2: if he does let them get the Duke? So there
Speaker 2: are a lot of complications here. And I think it
Speaker 2: came to a head for me in that very strange
Speaker 2: moment where it's like an outpost, almost like a, it's
Speaker 2: not even a town, but a Native American outpost they
Speaker 2: find themselves in where, you There is, you know, there's
Speaker 2: no way out here except for this small prop plane
Speaker 2: that the Duke finds. And so after that all goes down,
Speaker 2: they get into an argument here. And even Jack agrees
Speaker 2: with this, right? Yeah. When the Duke argues, it was
Speaker 2: okay for me to steal the plane because I was
Speaker 2: saving my own life. It was not okay for you
Speaker 2: to steal their truck because you were just doing that
Speaker 2: to make money off of my life. And it's just
Speaker 2: packed into and batted back and forth. as funnily as
Speaker 2: all the comic lines as well. But it is that
Speaker 2: moment of clarity where you see they've kind of been
Speaker 2: having this argument the entire trip about every decision that
Speaker 2: is made is, was this the right honorable thing to do?
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think all of that, I see the
Speaker 2: encouragement to go catch up with his ex-wife as part
Speaker 2: of that for the Duke. Jack, let's be fair about this.
Speaker 1: You lied to me first. What?
Speaker 3: At the river.
Speaker 1: Oh, get the... You lied to me first. You got
Speaker 1: some nerve. No, no, you lied to me first. You
Speaker 1: lied to me first.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I lied to you first, but you had
Speaker 2: no knowledge I was lying about my fear of flying
Speaker 2: at the river when you lied to me.
Speaker 1: So as far as you knew, you lied to me first.
Speaker 2: I can't even argue with you.
Speaker 1: I don't even know what the fuck you're talking about.
Speaker 3: I agree that that tension is there, and I mean
Speaker 3: the tension where you can watch it and almost feel
Speaker 3: like he's having fun or that he wants to stay
Speaker 3: with Jack and maybe even does feel safe with Jack,
Speaker 3: even though his life is constantly put in danger. At
Speaker 3: the same time, I never lose sight of the fact
Speaker 3: that it seems to sink in frequently with the Duke,
Speaker 3: that the fact is, if they get to LA, the
Speaker 3: closer they get to LA, the closer he is to death.
Speaker 2: That's true.
Speaker 3: And so I think that for him, it's more about
Speaker 3: the fact that I ascribe total genuineness and honor in
Speaker 3: him as a man wanting to help this bounty hunter
Speaker 3: out and go have this poignant moment and maybe even
Speaker 3: a sort of redemptive moment But at the same time,
Speaker 3: there's at least a percentage of it. There has to
Speaker 3: be a little bit of a percentage of it that
Speaker 3: is him just trying to come up with barriers, things
Speaker 3: that might possibly let him escape or keep him from death.
Speaker 1: And I want to give you one other De Niro moment.
Speaker 1: Every detour does help him.
Speaker 2: I give you that.
Speaker 1: Every detour helps him. Without a doubt, right?
Speaker 3: But one other moment that I love from De Niro
Speaker 3: that I think also talks about behavior and the depth
Speaker 3: he gives to the character and the nature of their
Speaker 3: relationship and gives it, even early on, so much more
Speaker 3: weight than it could have. And this could be completely
Speaker 3: just my interpretation of it. You might see this moment
Speaker 3: or we could look at the faces De Niro's making
Speaker 3: and interpret it differently. But remember the scene, it's the
Speaker 3: one where they're talking about going to Chicago and seeing
Speaker 3: the wife and daughter. I think it starts, they're eating
Speaker 3: dinner or De Niro's eating dinner. He's eating that chicken wing.
Speaker 3: and it starts that whole conversation that really opens up
Speaker 3: that dialogue about like being in denial about what the
Speaker 3: right thing to do is and doing the wrong thing. Anyway,
Speaker 3: he's eating these chicken wings, even though he knows that
Speaker 3: they're bad for him. The way that scene opens though,
Speaker 3: is just silently with De Niro chewing and the Duke
Speaker 3: watching him. And we get the sense that, you know,
Speaker 3: he's quietly judging him or at least quietly considering the damage.
Speaker 1: This is doing to him.
Speaker 3: And the face that De Niro is making is, the reaction,
Speaker 3: everything within his body suggests to me someone who is
Speaker 3: aware of that judgment and actually is a little bit
Speaker 3: bothered by it. He's someone who, again, comes off as
Speaker 3: so brusque and there's all that bravado and that sense
Speaker 3: of control. And in that moment, it's as if he
Speaker 3: knows he's being watched. He knows he's doing something quote
Speaker 3: unquote wrong, and.
Speaker 1: He's a little bit ashamed of it. He would never
Speaker 1: say that. He would never admit it. But De Niro
Speaker 1: is lets that in.
Speaker 3: He allows for that to be an interpretation of the moment.
Speaker 3: So I want to get to the pathos. And I
Speaker 3: give Gallo, the screenwriter here, some credit in that even
Speaker 3: if we think we know it's coming, that eventually he's
Speaker 3: going to end up on the doorstep face-to-face with his
Speaker 3: ex-wife and daughter again after that's introduced, I could see
Speaker 3: a lesser film concocting an extremely stupid ruse to get
Speaker 3: them there. And maybe some people watching this would say
Speaker 3: that is what happens with the shootout in Chicago and
Speaker 3: they get away on foot.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: But the fact that that moment comes, not because Jack
Speaker 3: has some big change of heart or all of a
Speaker 3: sudden feels like he has to do this and we
Speaker 3: don't really believe that his character would do it. The
Speaker 3: fact that the only way he ends up back on
Speaker 3: her doorstep is because he truly has no other choice,
Speaker 3: that he is so desperate for help that he goes
Speaker 3: to the only person whose help he can ask. I
Speaker 3: appreciated that. And then when we get there, that interaction
Speaker 3: with Wendy Phillips is gale. Everything about their energy suggests
Speaker 3: and sells the history that they have. And the feelings
Speaker 3: that have changed dramatically... between the both of them, but
Speaker 3: that are still there.
Speaker 1: And I mentioned the head.
Speaker 3: Shake that I love so much that De Niro gives
Speaker 3: in that comedic moment on the phone where he lets
Speaker 3: the Duke know that he doesn't mean it. How about
Speaker 3: the four, I think it's four head turns that we get,
Speaker 3: those silent head turns that we get when he sees
Speaker 3: his daughter.
Speaker 2: Denise? You got so big.
Speaker 3: The way De Niro even kind of asks her her
Speaker 3: name when he says Denise, it's a question. He just
Speaker 3: can't believe that that's really her, that that's his daughter
Speaker 3: who he hasn't seen in so long. And that line delivery,
Speaker 3: you got so big. The hugs where he doesn't really
Speaker 3: know what to do. He hugs her like three times,
Speaker 3: you know, kind of briefly as opposed to one big hug.
Speaker 3: And then her going back out into the driveway and
Speaker 3: trying to help her dad despite the fact that they've
Speaker 3: been estranged. I'm not going to lie, Josh, it's midnight
Speaker 3: run and it got a little dusty twice sitting on
Speaker 3: my couch watching this movie in those moments.
Speaker 2: I think that's an overall well-handled scene. I can't say
Speaker 2: it got things dusty for me. Maybe my favorite moment
Speaker 2: in it, though, is the awkwardness that they allow and
Speaker 2: give space for. And it's right in that sequence you're
Speaker 2: talking about in sort of the entranceway to the house
Speaker 2: after his wife has left. the room for a few minutes.
Speaker 2: And so here's who we're left with. The Duke, Jack,
Speaker 2: and this daughter who, as you pointed out, he's not
Speaker 2: even entirely sure. It's been so long at first that
Speaker 2: it is his daughter. I think is Danielle Duclos plays
Speaker 2: the daughter, I believe. And yeah, no dialogue. There's like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe 40 seconds of De Niro just
Speaker 2: kind of looking around awkwardly, wandering around a little bit,
Speaker 2: not knowing what else they've been reintroduced at this point.
Speaker 2: And some sort of conversation should happen, right? And it's not.
Speaker 2: And the movie just sits there and lets us sit
Speaker 2: in that. And that was one of those bits where
Speaker 2: it's unexpected, right? I didn't, we know this scene is coming.
Speaker 2: I think it plays out, you know, as mostly we
Speaker 2: expected probably, but I did not expect a little moment
Speaker 2: like that. And even Grodin is good. They're, again, patience,
Speaker 2: not going for a laugh, You're seeing his face in
Speaker 2: that scene, and you're also seeing how awkward he is
Speaker 2: in that moment, maybe even thinking, I shouldn't have pushed this.
Speaker 2: This was a bad idea. I was hoping this would
Speaker 2: end in a better way. But instead, it's become really
Speaker 2: uncomfortable for everyone. And yeah, it was brave of the
Speaker 2: film to let us sit in that. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And here I want to go back to what you
Speaker 3: were saying in terms of what stood out to you
Speaker 3: about the substance, or I suppose— one of the morals
Speaker 3: of this movie, or at least the moral discussions the
Speaker 3: movie is having. I, as I think about, again, De
Speaker 3: Niro's character and what's so effective in terms of rooting
Speaker 3: all of this in their behavior, at the core of
Speaker 3: this movie, it's not the gags, it's not the action,
Speaker 3: it's not plot or anything else, it really is character.
Speaker 3: And with character, I'm going to go to the film
Speaker 3: spotting word of every episode, it's about the stakes.
Speaker 1: And there are stakes, right, in.
Speaker 3: That there are these Time-driven stakes, what is ostensibly what
Speaker 3: this movie is about and what Jack's motivation is.
Speaker 1: Will he make it? Will he complete the job?
Speaker 3: Will he get back before the deadline Friday night at
Speaker 3: midnight or whatever it is? It really does, though, turn
Speaker 3: out to be, over the course of the movie, a
Speaker 3: story about integrity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the perfect word. Yep.
Speaker 1: It's integrity.
Speaker 2: That's what they're arguing about.
Speaker 3: With that comes being willing to do the right thing,
Speaker 3: even in incredibly tough situations.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: That's maybe the definition of integrity is sticking to what
Speaker 3: you believe in despite the challenges and the adversity. And
Speaker 3: so with that, you've got these two men who couldn't
Speaker 3: be more different, but actually are equal misfits in terms
Speaker 3: of society and their professions, right? He notices that his
Speaker 3: accounting firm is on the take. The police force is
Speaker 3: on the take. They both end up on the outs
Speaker 3: with the bad guy, the mob guy in this case,
Speaker 3: Jimmy Serrano, really great, Dennis Farina.
Speaker 2: Oh, so good.
Speaker 3: And so then the story becomes, actually, for us as viewers,
Speaker 3: it really becomes a matter of whether or not Jack
Speaker 3: will really be able to turn the Duke in at
Speaker 3: the end or not. Will he really be able to
Speaker 3: do it? And it's a legitimate question, I think, based
Speaker 3: on what we know about that character. And part of
Speaker 3: us even maybe wants him to, right? Like, I want
Speaker 3: Jack to get the money. I want him to complete
Speaker 3: the job. And the Duke can be kind of annoying.
Speaker 3: I don't know how I would fare after that whole
Speaker 3: flight scenario and getting kicked off the airplane, right? Be
Speaker 3: hard for me to forgive him for that, Josh, no
Speaker 3: matter what happened. But of course, we also want him
Speaker 3: to do the right thing because that's so central to
Speaker 3: his character. And so the way that's all fleshed out
Speaker 3: are these little moments that again, I think maybe lesser
Speaker 3: movies wouldn't give us are like the one where Jack
Speaker 3: is formulating the plan. And yeah, that Kodo Mosley looks
Speaker 3: at him and can tell that he's getting almost giddy
Speaker 3: about this, which is something we haven't seen from the
Speaker 3: Walsh character yet. And he says that he's getting excited
Speaker 3: because he gets to feel like a, a cop again,
Speaker 3: you know, all of his behavior, everything he does, those
Speaker 3: moments of excitement, They inform our understanding of the character
Speaker 3: and ultimately those stakes. And, you know, our friend Sam,
Speaker 3: who has seen this movie even more times than me
Speaker 3: and every time gives it five stars, he had a
Speaker 3: nice little theory or idea too on Letterboxd where he
Speaker 3: said that even at the end, his decision to uncuff
Speaker 3: the Duke could be partly about that's another moment where
Speaker 3: he gets to feel like a cop again. He gets
Speaker 3: to not just be kind of the automaton who goes,
Speaker 3: and does the job, but he gets to make a decision.
Speaker 3: He gets to take the cuffs off of someone and
Speaker 3: that it's really about part and parcel with his integrity
Speaker 3: is it's really about his dignity. And the fact that
Speaker 3: his dignity in that moment has been restored more than anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so glad you landed on the word integrity
Speaker 2: because I think that is essentially what they're quibbling over
Speaker 2: in almost every discussion they have. It's not inflated always
Speaker 2: as it is in that discussion at the outpost about
Speaker 2: the plane versus the truck. That's where it maybe comes
Speaker 2: to the foreground. But even when they're quibbling over what
Speaker 2: he's eating, that's kind of at the root of it
Speaker 2: is that question of integrity.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely it is. And there's another hilarious exchange where
Speaker 3: it's at the root of it. And- I'll mention this
Speaker 3: in the context of another thing that I saw from
Speaker 3: Sam on Letterboxd that I didn't see until earlier today,
Speaker 3: not before I saw the film. In one of his
Speaker 3: viewings a while back, Sam said, and of course he
Speaker 3: did still give it five stars and adores the film,
Speaker 3: but he said that this is the first time that
Speaker 3: the ending ever troubled him a little bit. He said,
Speaker 3: I don't believe Jack would take the money. He said
Speaker 3: he's got too much integrity to use stolen money to
Speaker 3: open a coffee shop or anything else for that matter.
Speaker 3: And I bring that up because Josh, I was so
Speaker 3: dialed into his integrity and these ethical and philosophical debates,
Speaker 3: if you will, that actually populate this movie that it
Speaker 3: had never occurred to me before until watching it last
Speaker 3: night that I had a moment where I thought to myself,
Speaker 3: I feel like Jack would give him the money back.
Speaker 3: I feel like Jack would actually be so against using
Speaker 3: money that came from Jimmy Serrano that he doesn't technically
Speaker 3: have any claim to no matter what reasons he would
Speaker 3: use it for, or no matter how bad the guy is, right,
Speaker 3: that he's taking it from, ultimately in Serrano, he would
Speaker 3: never actually use it. He would never take it. And
Speaker 3: the movie suggests that this is kind of his redemption,
Speaker 3: this restoration of dignity at the end. It's partly when
Speaker 3: he gets this money as well. And for me, I
Speaker 3: guess ultimately the way I came to justify it or Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: That the Duke actually is just fine with flying and,
Speaker 3: in fact, has the ability to fly. He didn't know that.
Speaker 3: He doesn't know it till later. The implication, the idea being, right,
Speaker 3: that what you do, what your choices say about you
Speaker 3: in the moment with the information you have at your disposal,
Speaker 3: that's what really matters, not ultimately how it shakes out.
Speaker 3: What matters is what you do in the moment. And
Speaker 3: in that moment, he... has already decided to let the
Speaker 3: Duke go. He has no expectation in that moment that
Speaker 3: he's going to be rewarded financially for it at all.
Speaker 1: He's prepared to.
Speaker 3: Walk away and never see that guy again or reap
Speaker 3: any benefits. And in fact, he's missing out on $ 100, 000
Speaker 3: that he has more than earned.
Speaker 2: This is at the end you're talking about now.
Speaker 1: He's at the end. He's actually losing money.
Speaker 3: But because he's getting rewarded for something he'd already decided
Speaker 3: to do and had made the right decision based on that,
Speaker 3: not motivated by the money, I think he can justify
Speaker 3: it for himself as well.
Speaker 2: That's it. As you were talking, I was trying to
Speaker 2: remember and it's been like a week since I've seen
Speaker 2: it again. There's a caveat. There was a little detail
Speaker 2: that takes place and that's it. That's what you described.
Speaker 2: That's why it is.
Speaker 1: Take it. You already let me go.
Speaker 2: Yes. That's why it fits with this whole understanding of integrity,
Speaker 2: why it's okay for him to take the money. That's
Speaker 2: what it is. That's why it works for me at least. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So lastly, just how about Midnight Run being one of
Speaker 3: those all-time that guy movies? We've already mentioned it a
Speaker 3: little bit with Dennis Farina showing up as Serrano, but
Speaker 3: as Serrano and Yefet Kodo as Alonzo Mosley. I love
Speaker 3: seeing John Ashton again, and I say again because we
Speaker 3: did talk about him and his relationship with Axel Foley
Speaker 3: and Beverly Hills Cop, the other Martin Brest film. Joe Pantoliano, again,
Speaker 3: I didn't know this until Sam mentioned it on Twitter today,
Speaker 3: but it's insane that there have been three movies in
Speaker 3: a row talked about of the show, and he's been
Speaker 3: in all of them.
Speaker 2: Joey Pants, I think we're supposed to call him. It's
Speaker 2: been my month of Joey Pants between Risky Business, The Fugitive,
Speaker 2: back with Michael Phillips, and now you're in Midnight Run.
Speaker 2: And the other thing, you know, you mentioned how, you know,
Speaker 2: De Niro here made you think about De Niro and Heat.
Speaker 2: How about Philip Baker Hall here?
Speaker 1: His name's Sidney.
Speaker 2: His name's Sidney. So I did a quick Google search
Speaker 2: and couldn't mail it down, but it does seem to
Speaker 2: be the case that In Paul Thomas Anderson's heartache, he's
Speaker 2: supposed to be the same character.
Speaker 3: That's so funny that you looked it up because I
Speaker 3: had the same thought. I'm like, could this really be
Speaker 3: a coincidence? And maybe I just ran out of time,
Speaker 3: but I decided not to even search for it. I
Speaker 3: was like, of course it's a coincidence. It just has
Speaker 3: to be, but it probably isn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it probably isn't is what I'm going to say.
Speaker 2: I gave it probably five to eight minutes, and then
Speaker 2: I was like, I got to move on with my day.
Speaker 2: So I don't have it definitively anywhere that PTA said anything. this.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's out there somewhere and a listener knows. But yeah,
Speaker 2: he's a mob advisor here. That would track, right, with
Speaker 2: the sort of mysterious Sidney's past in hard eight. And
Speaker 2: I think that's, even if it's not the case, it's
Speaker 2: lovely that it works out that way. I heard somebody
Speaker 2: picked up my dukes in New York. It's old news, Sidney.
Speaker 2: I'm already on it. I don't have to tell you
Speaker 2: what'll happen if he becomes a government witness. I can
Speaker 2: assure you that will not be the case.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I assumed you were taking that position, but I'm
Speaker 1: supposed to advise you against such acts.
Speaker 2: Sidney, relax. Have a cream soda. Everything is going to
Speaker 2: be all over within a few minutes.
Speaker 3: We hope you enjoyed that conversation from our archive about
Speaker 3: Midnight Run from 2023. Josh, a 35th anniversary review. Once again,
Speaker 3: we remind you that as a Film Spotting Family member,
Speaker 3: you get access to the Film Spotting Archive. You also
Speaker 3: get bonus shows. You get a weekly newsletter. You get
Speaker 3: early ad-free shows and more. It's all at filmspottingfamily.com. And
Speaker 3: don't forget, on Friday's flagship show, it is our top
Speaker 3: five Needle Drops. It's a good one with Rico Galeano
Speaker 3: from Mubi. Thanks for listening. This conversation can serve no
Speaker 3: purpose anymore.
Speaker 2: Goodbye.