WEBVTT - Would TechTV Make it in Streaming Media? 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.800 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:14.760 Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:17.239 job in Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:20.760 Radio and love all Things tech. And I had a 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:24.159 listener send me a message via Twitter to handle for 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:26.640 the show. Is tech Stuff h s W in case 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:29.080 you ever want to do this? And they asked if 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:33.760 I thought perhaps tech TV, a once keybole channel that 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:36.320 is no more, if it could have survived in the 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:39.520 realm of streaming, And I thought this was a great 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:43.520 opportunity for me to bring on Tom Merritt onto the show. 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:49.879 Tom is um He's a podcaster extraordinaire. He's been a 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:53.640 voice in tech for a couple of decades. I first 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:56.080 became aware of his work when I started listening to 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:59.880 the Buzz out Loud podcast from c Net. This was 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:03.080 before I was ever a podcasters, before I even worked 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:06.880 at how Stuff Works dot com. So uh, that's when 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:10.000 I first became a fan of of his work. And 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:12.520 it was a pleasure having him on to talk about 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:16.000 tech TV and his insight. So let's listen to that 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:22.440 conversation right now. I am pleased to welcome longtime friend 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:26.800 of the show that's putting it lightly. Tom Merritt, whose 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:29.600 work was actually a lot of the work that that 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:33.760 inspired me before I got into podcasting. Uh so, Uh, 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:36.120 you know, Tom's been doing this for a while. He's 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:39.640 been working in not just what we used to call 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:43.280 new media, which is just media now, but also old media. 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:46.400 So you know, Tom's Tom's done at all. Tom, welcome 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.520 back to tech stuff. Ah, thank you for having me. 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.480 It's it's good to be back. For those who don't know. Uh, 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:56.400 I often joke that I heart media publishes about half 0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:59.920 of all the podcasts that are out there. Tom hosts 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:05.160 or co hosts. The other hand, I do probably too many. 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:07.480 I don't know if it's quite that many, but yeah, 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:09.600 I do a lot, that's true. I don't know. I 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:12.000 would never describe it as too many. Tom. I just 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:14.880 say that, first of all, your time management skills have 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:18.600 got to be worlds better than my own. But the 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:20.520 reason why I asked you here obviously is that we 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:23.079 had this listener who wrote in and asked, in the 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:27.160 world of streaming, would something like tech TV be able 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:31.400 to have continued? Now. I've done an episode about tech 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:33.720 TV in the past, but it's great to talk to 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:37.280 someone who is actually there, at least for a while. So, Tom, 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:39.799 can you kind of for people who might not have 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:43.120 known about tech TV because maybe they're just never got 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:46.320 that channel, or perhaps they're on the younger side of 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:48.799 my listeners, can you kind of fillis in on what 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:51.720 that was all about. Tech TV, or z d t 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:54.160 V as it originally was called because it was owned 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:58.079 by Ziff Davis, the publisher of computer magazines, tech magazines 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:03.280 and websites UH as a cable television network that began 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:07.920 in the late nineties on cable to be devoted to 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:12.320 technology topics. Ziff's idea was, let's take the topics that 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:16.760 we cover in our publications and our websites UH and 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:20.600 put them on television. Let's make television versions of that UH. 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:22.720 In fact, it has its roots in a show called 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:26.600 the Site that was on MSNBC, which people may not 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:30.440 realize was originally Microsoft NBC. It was. It was a 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:34.160 combination of Microsoft and NBC that NBC eventually just took 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:38.880 over and never changed the name. Tech TV had shows 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:41.680 about helping how to, It had shows about technology news. 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:45.720 It had shows about technology finance, video games, uh MP 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:48.440 three's and audio came along and a show about audio 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:51.680 was started. So all the tech topics you can think 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:56.720 of were there in two thousand. Uh, this is in 0:03:56.760 --> 0:04:00.560 the earliest days. So the joke is that tech TV 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.840 covered the dot com boom and the dot com bust 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:07.920 and then got busted because it went away when it 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:11.520 was bought by Comcast, which merged it into the G 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:15.240 four network. And then of course we all know that, 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:19.880 uh the G four network had its own roller coaster story. 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:22.960 That the kind of roller coaster where you have one 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:27.719 big hill and then a real long flow down until 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:31.200 you just end up with cops three runs, yeah, towards 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:34.599 the end, although they're back trying to do a streaming version. 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:38.719 So but G four devoted to gaming, not technology. Tech 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:41.799 TV was devoted to broad technology. They had a gaming 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:44.680 show called x Play that was the only one of 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.159 the only things that survived over into the G four merger. 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:52.080 But but everything else was about various topics were right 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:54.960 and and you know, I watched tech TV back in 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:57.440 the day, and one of the things that really struck 0:04:57.480 --> 0:04:59.680 me is that that was a channel that I mean 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.760 they were talking to like a lot of the shows, 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:04.840 we're talking to people who knew their stuff right. It 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:08.360 wasn't It wasn't necessarily like the kinds of things you 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:10.880 would see on say local news, where they might cover 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:14.400 a tech story where it's very superficial you don't really 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:17.719 dive into it. We were talking about shows where people 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:23.279 were calling in live or asking live questions about very 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:26.240 particular issues that they might be running into and like 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:29.880 solving them in real time. And I remember watching and 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:32.880 thinking like I can't, I can't imagine how much you 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:35.680 would need to know about these subjects in order to 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:39.120 be able to to do this effectively and still be 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:43.920 also personable on camera. Like that's that was the other 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:46.240 side of it is that obviously, you know, you don't 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:49.880 just want to have the ben Stein kind of approach 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:53.240 to delivery, or no one's gonna bother watching unless they 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:55.680 just happen to have a blue screen of death they 0:05:55.720 --> 0:06:00.599 can't get rid of. Yeah. The most watched shows on 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:04.040 the network through most of its run were the live 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:07.240 call in shows hosted by Leolaporte, Call for Help and 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:10.919 the screensavers. Uh. Internally we referred to them as the 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.320 Tools and the Toys show. Call for Help was the 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:16.279 Tool show is very much focused on practicality. I need 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:19.320 help doing x, uh, you know, because I need to 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:22.039 get something done. Screensavers was more of the Toys show. 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:24.680 That's where you had more of the hacking and they're like, 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:26.920 what can I make things do? I I want to 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:29.480 try this, you know, help me out with that. And 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:35.440 they were live, which was unusual in many respects, including 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:38.960 the fact that it was, if not the first, certainly 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:41.839 one of the first television shows to have chat rooms 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:46.160 running on screen, so as you chatted uh during during 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:48.400 the show, your chats could show up on screen. There 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:51.400 was a slight delay for moderation just in case, but 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.440 but chat with screens was streamed onto the television and 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:58.080 you could call in on the net Cam network uh 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:02.680 in in seven when it launched, you could call in 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:06.720 with a netcam uh using see you see me uh, 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:10.280 and they would set you up and you could appear 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:14.680 on the show. Uh. And that was definitely something new 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:16.760 where the audience not only not just could call in 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:19.760 on the phone, which they could, but could actually have 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:23.200 a camera uh and and appear on the show with 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:26.480 a camera, something that even now is not done a lot. 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:28.600 But now you're like, oh yeah, you could totally do 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:30.720 that it's all a matter of screening and and that 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:32.560 sort of thing. Back then, you you had to walk 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:34.840 people through it. So to your point about needing a 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:39.000 sophisticated audience, you needed an audience who was sophisticated enough 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:41.400 to be able to run software and set up a 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.320 web camera and all of that sort of thing. Yeah, 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:48.640 and I remember, you know, the heavily pixelated net cams 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:54.800 of the past dial up. That's right. It's pretty incredible 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:56.600 actually when you really think about it, that it was 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:59.000 even you guys even managed to do it that uh, 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:03.280 and that the audience was was a thriving part of it. 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:05.720 In fact, I would argue that a lot of that work. 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:08.680 I mean clearly we see that play out in other 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:12.640 platforms today. Right. Twitch would not be Twitch if it 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:16.080 were not for some of the things that were prototyped 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:19.880 and tested and proven to work with tech TV, where 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:24.520 you see things like audience engagement and that builds a community, 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:27.640 and that that's the sort of thing that ends up 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:30.760 giving a show life beyond you know, whatever the content 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:33.800 is that's on the screen. It's a thing that it 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:37.760 becomes a collaborative effort with the people on the show 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:40.240 and the audience. I mean, if you're doing a help show, 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:42.800 then you really don't have content unless you have an 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:45.320 audience to write in and ask for things or to 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.120 call in and ask for things. So I saw a 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:51.400 lot of things on tech TV that we're kind of 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:56.400 I would say, with presage, the the various elements that 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:58.920 we kind of take for granted in a lot of 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:03.360 online streaming UH services now, whether it's you know, YouTube 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:06.760 streaming or twitch streaming, things of that nature, a lot 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:10.360 of those have I think, kind of taken lessons that 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:13.040 were first learned back in the late nineties and early 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:17.520 two thousand's. Yeah, I often wonder what would have happened 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:22.360 if they had not sold tech TV to Comcast. UH. 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:25.240 Tech TV was sold by Ziff Davis to Paul Allen, 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:29.960 the co founder of Microsoft. His Vulcan Ventures ran it. 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:34.520 Then the dot com bust came along. Also, in my opinion, 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:41.800 both Vulcan's UH financial folks and Paul Allen got board 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:47.000 with tech TV because as of the day it was 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.120 sold to Comcast by Paul Allen, they were making money 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.080 internationally because they had international versions of the network UH 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:56.280 and syndication agreements. They were break even on the web, 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:59.480 which which I was was a part of, and they 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:03.360 were getting close to profitability on broadcast. It was the 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:05.839 wrong time to sell, in my opinion and a few 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:10.600 other people's opinion, because the show, the network was becoming viable. 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:13.840 What was valuable of it about it at the time 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:17.559 of the sale was that it was in fifty million homes. 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:20.880 Back then, you needed to be in at least sixty 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:23.400 seventy million homes to really make a go of it. 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:28.200 Uh So part of the theory behind selling was, well, 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:31.480 if you sell the Comcast, you get better distribution. But 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:34.040 one of the reasons Comcast wanted it was for those 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:37.080 fifty million homes that G four wasn't in. G four 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:40.120 was in thirteen million homes. Uh And so you merge 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:42.839 those two networks, which is what they did, and overnight 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:45.920 you're getting close to that viability number. Uh That number 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:48.000 is smaller now because there's a smaller number of homes, 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:50.800 but back then you you needed you needed to really 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:53.160 get in as many homes as possible. The other problem 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:56.960 with tech TV it was solo, so every other almost 0:10:57.120 --> 0:11:00.240 every other cable network out there was on there because 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:03.319 it was part of a package. Right There was ESPN, 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.160 News because well, if you want ESPN, you gotta take 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:09.280 ESPN News. There was Bravo because well if you want MSNBC, 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:12.640 you gotta take Bravo. Uh. And and all of the 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:16.480 big companies had those kinds of arrangements. Even the h 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:18.680 G t V s were like, well, you want HDTV, 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:21.120 you gotta take d I Y Tech TV was it. 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:23.480 They were on their own, so they kind of needed 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:27.800 something to get past that fifty million mark. If they 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:31.720 had stuck around, though, I wonder if they would have 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:34.920 gone the way of most cable networks, which is you 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:38.040 you keep broadening out your base until you're really no 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:40.840 longer about what you were originally about. We see that 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.800 with the History Channel, we see that with sci Fi, etcetera. 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:49.400 Or would they have split into multiple networks? Would would 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:52.600 they have been able to launch secondary networks maybe broaden 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:55.640 out the main network, but but have more specific networks 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:57.120 the way an h G t V, A, d I 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:00.520 Y food uh. And all of that happened as it was, 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:02.800 it got merged into G four, the tech went away. 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:08.360 And to to your original viewer question, I don't think 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:11.320 you could do it now because so much has changed. 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:14.839 You would you are doing it. Uh, and you kind 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:18.520 of alluded to that, like there's a YouTube or a 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:23.760 Twitch show for everything tech TV was doing, and the 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:27.760 entire internet is essentially tech TV in a way. There 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:30.200 are people doing help shows, there are people doing podcasts, 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:33.920 there are people doing uh streaming of games. All these 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:38.320 things that the tech TV was pioneering are just deragur right. 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.160 Twitch talks to its chat as as you stream all 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:44.640 the time. Uh. We had tech TV Radio where we 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:48.000 would uh, in addition to news, do sort of behind 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:52.520 the scenes shows about the shows on tech TV. Every 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.560 show has a behind the scenes podcast. Now. Uh, It's 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:59.079 it's just everything now. So I don't know if it 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:01.520 would make sense to try to bottle it all back 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:04.599 up into a niche network anymore because it's just so pervasive. 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:07.960 Tom and I have more to say about the tech 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:12.160 TV story and and streaming, but first let's take this 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:22.160 quick break. You've touched on a ton of things, like, 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:24.320 you know, I used to work you know this, I 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:27.680 used to work for Discovery Communications. Uh, I've worked for 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.439 the same company for you know, fourteen years. It's just 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.200 been owned by different people. So but when I was 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:36.320 working for Discovery, you know, we got to see the 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:39.679 full side of the whole carriage agreements, those agreements where 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:44.600 a cable company has like multiple channels in its network 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:48.760 and the there'll be one or two jewels that they 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:52.600 have that everyone wants, but because you know they have 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:55.240 the stuff that the customers want, they say, well, you 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:57.960 also have to take these other channels as well. I 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:01.040 think that that would have been probably the evolution we 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:03.079 would have seen with tech TV had it stuck around, 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:05.720 Because I was also going to bring up the point 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:10.280 about how you would start off with these cable channels 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:16.400 that would have very uh focused uh subject matter or topics, 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:20.360 or they would cater to a very specific audience, and 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:25.120 over time, because there's this need and old media to 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:28.360 continue to grow, Like that's how success is shown by 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:31.280 growth year over year. It's not it's not it's not 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:33.680 really revenue so much as how much did you grow 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:37.440 compared to last year. Uh. You can't continue to grow 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:41.840 if you are incredibly focused, something that tech stuff has 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:46.560 seen over the past, because like I have a great audience, 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:49.720 a wonderful audience, but it's not like you know, maybe 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:51.920 someone will tune into a specific episode if they think 0:14:51.960 --> 0:14:54.360 it sounds interesting, but it's not the sort of thing 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:58.520 where I'm going to see explosive growth. Um at this stage, 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:01.240 it would be great if that happened. But that's the 0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:03.120 sort of thing that I think a lot of cable 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:06.040 companies we're looking at and they said, let's broaden this out. 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:07.840 I mean, the one the flagship that I always think 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:10.440 of as MTV, because there's the cliche joke of do 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:14.480 you remember when they used to show music videos? Um, 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:17.240 which you know, and I make that joke, and meanwhile, 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:19.840 Bob Pittman's my boss. I should be real careful about 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:24.280 jokes about MTV. But yeah, it's it's but that's that's 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:26.720 the sort of that's the sort of train. And now 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:30.960 that we have these these streaming services that allow for 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:35.640 much more narrowly focused content where you can find your 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:37.960 audience and you can have that level of engagement, I 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:40.440 think that ends up making up a lot for the 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:43.360 fact that it doesn't necessarily work as well in the 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:46.520 cable world because it is really hard to build that 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:50.240 sort of structure that supports the community. I know a 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:53.280 lot of cable companies have tried that, where they try 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:58.680 to marry whatever cable content is up on screen with 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.040 a website that's built out, but that doesn't it's not 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:08.600 necessarily uh, something that that works organically, and it's really 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:11.280 hard to drive people to a different screen when you 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:15.120 have them on one. Um. So I think I think that, 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:19.960 you know, to the listeners question, Yeah, we're we're seeing 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:25.280 plenty of programming out there that is touching on all 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:28.360 the elements that tech tv touched on, but it's just 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:32.560 not it's just not tech tv. UM. I'm guessing that 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:37.280 was probably the resurgence of G four that really brought 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:39.960 that question up, and that in case that case is 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:43.440 a little bit different too. It's again it's um, it's 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:48.640 again catering to the gaming community, but with the exception 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:51.600 of stuff like x play, you're not seeing a lot 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:57.240 of the classic G four properties come back in full swing. Yeah, 0:16:57.280 --> 0:16:59.080 it does. It does delight me that x play is 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.920 still around in some form. It was originally called game 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:05.159 Spot TV because If Davis owned a magazine called game Spot, 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:08.360 but it was hosted by Adam Sessler uh, and then 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:12.639 it became extended Play once as IF sold the company 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.640 because they didn't want to use the ZIF name anymore. Uh. 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:18.280 And then at one point they decided to try to 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:22.080 make it edgier. So they dropped the tended and just 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.760 made it explay. Uh and and it's been that ever said, 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:28.480 So that is a launch show from z D t 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:32.320 V that under three different names has survived, which I 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:37.119 kind of love. But yeah, when you think about starting 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:39.760 a cable network now, well who would start a cable 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:43.720 network now? Like, who wants a cable network? What you 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:50.760 see now are uh packages of content? Right. I think 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:55.440 the future of ESPN will be a slow uh moving 0:17:55.600 --> 0:18:00.080 from ESPN the cable network first to e s p 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.040 N the app. ESPN plus is their their their back 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:06.280 door to escape and survive into. You'll see more and 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:09.480 more things go there. You see all the networks doing this, 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:15.639 Paramount plus, Peacock, Disney plus. Uh. Instead of launching channels, 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:19.360 they're launching services that package all their content together. So 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:22.159 kind of going back to that idea that Ziff Davis 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.600 originally launched the network as a companion to their magazines 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:28.400 and websites. I wonder if there is a company that 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.920 could create some kind of streaming service, might have to 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:35.639 be free ad supported rather than subscription based, but could 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.679 a c net could as if Davis could, uh, you know, 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:44.920 a vox UH create an app that has the equivalent 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:47.520 of a tech TV in it, where it's got shows 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:50.760 that you can tap into, and then the resources of 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:54.520 of the publications involved in there. If there were a 0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:56.920 return of a tech TV kind of thing, that that's 0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.800 the only way I can imagine it taking place, I think. 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.760 And one of the other reasons why I'm so glad 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:06.199 you're on the show, Tom is that I knew that 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:08.119 you would be the perfect person to talk to about this, 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:11.439 not just because of your tech TV history, but of 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:15.560 course you also co hosted a show called Chord Killers 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:21.000 where you talk about stuff like the cable industry and 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:24.800 streaming services, and I mean, you'll go into all sorts 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.639 of different uh stories on those topics. But you know 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:33.760 you've I remember listening to Chord Killers ages ago where 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:37.680 we were just starting to have those conversations of um, 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:41.720 you know, cord cutting becoming like a trend and UH 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:45.320 and now that you have this era of all these 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:50.440 different streaming platforms that are available, UH, now the conversation 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:54.639 tends to revolve around which ones do I subscribe to 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:58.040 and which ones can I afford to? Not to what 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:01.720 content am I willing to miss? Out on that's what 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:04.960 the conversation becomes. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Uh. We used to 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:07.240 joke Brian Brushwood, my my co host on Court Killers, 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:09.080 and I used to joke that we started to show 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:12.560 about tablets before the iPad came out, basically uh, and 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:16.080 but we we stuck around long enough that it paid off, 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:19.720 because Yeah, we have shifted over the years from how 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.960 could you possibly do this? To uh, what do you 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:27.359 watch and how do you decide? Yeah, no, it's that's 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:29.679 that's the conversation I end up having. I have another 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:32.359 show called Large nerd Dron Collider with a friend of 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:34.480 mine and that ends up being our conversation all the 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:37.679 time where she'll say, oh, did you see this new 0:20:37.720 --> 0:20:39.879 show on Hulu? And I said, oh, that's it's one 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:44.560 of the ones I canceled. So it's because it's just 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:47.000 hard to keep up with them all. But but yeah, 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:49.480 I think I think this was exactly what my listener 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:51.760 was really looking for, was to kind of get that 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:55.040 insight and um, yeah, it's a totally different world now 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:59.359 with the different ways of approaching I think the fact 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:02.080 that you know that there are these platforms out there 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:04.520 finding an audience still continues to be one of the 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:09.160 most challenging aspects for any content creator out there. But 0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:13.000 if you are someone who wants to do something where 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:15.600 you're you know, you launch a Twitch channel where you're 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:19.480 helping people with tech problems, I think there are opportunities 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:21.720 out there. The question you need to be able to 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:26.760 define what success is to you and maybe set some expectations, 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:31.000 because it's not like you're necessarily going to see uh, 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:33.879 monumental success right out of the gate, or even you know, 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:36.719 you may not see monumental success at all. But if 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:40.480 it's something that you derive pleasure from and and it's 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:43.400 not pulling too much of your attention away from other 0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:45.080 things that you need to do, I think it's a 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:49.200 great thing to pursue. Um and and to your point, 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:51.920 well with court killers, if you stick around long enough, 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:55.480 you might become relevant. Yeah, right, just just stang in there. 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:58.040 The good news is you don't need to be in 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:02.200 eight million homes to to be successful. Right that It's 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:04.560 it's hard to get an audience, but at least you 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:07.240 don't have to get as big of an audience as 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:09.960 you used to have to do to to have some success. Yeah, 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:12.639 you don't have to. You don't have to find the 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:16.280 money people, right, the people who will put forward whatever 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:18.960 the capital is in order for you to have all 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:21.960 the stuff and and the the equipment you need to 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:25.560 be able to get into something like that is not 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:29.399 I mean, it's it's still an expense. But there are 0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:32.159 a lot of computers that are coming out now that 0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:35.320 have the basic stuff that you would need right away 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:39.960 that can produce good enough results where if you're if 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:42.400 the content you put out is really good, people will 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:46.720 watch it. Obviously, you know, it's it's hard to judge 0:22:46.760 --> 0:22:50.280 that because you always think about the standouts that have 0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:54.320 the super high quality webcam or or they're using a 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:57.919 you know, a very expensive camera and lighting set up 0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:00.880 and green screen, and they have the mixers and all 0:23:00.920 --> 0:23:03.400 that kind of stuff. But you know, those are those 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:05.280 are things that you can worry about later on down 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:09.600