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Speaker 1: Everybody's spilled. Courtney, Alex just walked in the shot. What's up.

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Speaker 2: Uh, it's cold, it's getting cold outside.

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Speaker 1: It's cold as it was like twenty nine degrees. I

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Speaker 1: bought firewood. And Lisa has uh kind of allergy. She's

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Speaker 1: really highly allergic. Stuff. We've got to give her shots

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Speaker 1: every week and.

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Speaker 2: Then shots talking about her like she's an animal.

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Speaker 3: No, I give her shots every week. You got to

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Speaker 3: do it yourself. I give it to her like you

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Speaker 3: stick a shot in her. Two shots every gosh. Hey,

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Speaker 3: medical stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: Oh do you do you have a besovagel. I'm not

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Speaker 1: real before her, butgels like you get queenish and you

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Speaker 1: gow to sit down when needles go in and stuff. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's called a vaso vegel. On the podcast, I

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Speaker 3: was afraid of needles. That's why I never gave blood.

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Speaker 3: But John Norman kind of pushed me to do it.

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Speaker 3: You want so yeah, it's good, But still I want

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Speaker 3: to want to do it to Lisa every week.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, because Lisa can't so ill love. We both love

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Speaker 1: cozy fires of the fireplace, natural fires, no like ceramically.

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Speaker 2: You got a nice one in your living room, right, Yeah, but.

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Speaker 1: Here's the thing. If the firewood's a little damp or

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Speaker 1: whatever the smell it it puts off, it makes her sick.

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Speaker 1: So no damp wood. Well, I haven't known a lumber company.

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Speaker 1: So last month I got two cords of firewood and

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Speaker 1: actually killed trot it nice. So now it's not.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so now we got anyway, I spent all weekend

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Speaker 3: on life. Do you have to pay classic for the

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Speaker 3: use of the facilities?

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Speaker 1: I probably should have, but I did not. And anyway,

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Speaker 1: now we've got kill dried firewood that I'm building. Lisa

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Speaker 1: and I talked about this morning. I'm building our first

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Speaker 1: fire in the fireplace tonight and I cannot wait. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna have a glass red wine, sit in my comfy

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Speaker 1: chair with my wife next to the fire and just

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Speaker 1: vet sounds pretty nice. I can't wait. I really, it's like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess that's what old people get excited.

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Speaker 2: You would just need a manhattan and be perfect for you.

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Speaker 1: I would be perfect, but I'm not going to make

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Speaker 1: a Manhattan. I'll just have ly soap a bottle wine somewhere.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, that's what we're doing tonight, And you're right

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Speaker 1: all on the heels of a simple comment. It's cold outside.

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Speaker 2: Good but as we could talk about absolutely anything that's.

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Speaker 1: Right, it was shop talk or the shop. So that's

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Speaker 1: it all right. Today, guys, we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: Victor Frankel's book, Man Search for Meeting. There's a summary

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Speaker 1: about his life and his book called Man Search for Meaning.

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Speaker 1: It's from a blog called Mind for Life, and the

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Speaker 1: post is titled the Power of Choice Freedom over Circumstances.

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Speaker 1: Alex is usual as prepped up something that will make

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Speaker 1: us think for shop Talk, and we'll dive in right

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Speaker 1: after these brief messages from our general sponsors. Welcome back,

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Speaker 1: Welcome back Bill. Thanks. Uh, you're doing all right house

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Speaker 1: things in your world.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I can't talk about it all on the air,

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Speaker 3: but I can tell you something after you.

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Speaker 1: Can talk about so above it if you want to. No, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: Alex is bailed wife, as I think.

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Speaker 3: We're not going to take the kids out of your

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Speaker 3: playoff game on Friday, So that's exciting. What are you

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Speaker 3: going to build teams in the playoffs they keep winning? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think I told you this or of the phone

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Speaker 3: last week. I'm going to bring the kids on Friday.

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Speaker 1: You need to text Lisa well, because she often is

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Speaker 1: there by herself or just with people, her father, my

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Speaker 1: father in law, people, everybody calls people. It's what the

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Speaker 1: kids called. But anyway, if you text her and tell

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Speaker 1: her you're coming to bring in the kids, she'll be excited.

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Speaker 1: Sit up there. We're playing a really good team too.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so I've spent all weekend breaking down film

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Speaker 1: and I mean put together a really good game plan.

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Speaker 1: But they're good football team. They're well coached, got a

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Speaker 1: lot of athletes, so it'll be it'll be a.

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Speaker 3: That's how much this guy cares all weekend breaking down film.

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Speaker 3: None of his kids are on the team, running a company.

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Speaker 1: I love it. All. Right, here we go again. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to read you a summary of Victor Frankel's life

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Speaker 1: and his book Man's Search for Meaning.

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Speaker 3: Which Phil has not read yet and he needs to.

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Speaker 3: And no, actually you asked me, off Air. I know

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Speaker 3: I have this book. Somebody else told me I had

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Speaker 3: to read it. I bought the book and like everything else,

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Speaker 3: good intentions and not enough time, effort, energy, and I'm

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Speaker 3: sure I forgot about it.

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Speaker 1: But now I'm going to go dig it off my

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Speaker 1: shelf and read it because uh, in front of the fire,

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Speaker 1: all right, that's shaming me, all right. So it's this

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Speaker 1: thing is from a blog called Mind for Life and

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Speaker 1: the post is titled the Power of Choice Freedom over Circumstances,

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Speaker 1: which what a title. I love that. So here we go.

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Speaker 1: How important is the power of choice? In nineteen forty two,

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Speaker 1: the director of the neurological department of the Rothschild Hospital

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Speaker 1: in Vienna and his wife were forced by the Nazis

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Speaker 1: to abort their child. Holy crap, this is terrible. Why

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Speaker 1: am I reading this? That's what the first line makes

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Speaker 1: me want to get sick to my stomach. They were

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Speaker 1: forced to abort their child by the Nazis. Wow. Soon afterward,

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Speaker 1: the couple was arrested along with the husband's parents, and

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Speaker 1: were deported to the Oh really, they were reported to

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Speaker 1: a ghetto north of Prague. And it's spelled t h

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Speaker 1: E R E s I E N S T A

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Speaker 1: d T. I'm going to call it the rest in

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Speaker 1: Stott Ghetto the Prague. Within six months, this gentleman's father

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Speaker 1: succumbed to exhaustion and died. In nineteen forty four, Victor Frankel,

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Speaker 1: his wife Tilly, and Frankel's sixty five year old mother

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Speaker 1: were transported to the death camp at Auschwitz. His mother

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Speaker 1: was immediately exterminated in the gas chamber, and his young

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Speaker 1: wife was moved to bergen Belsen, where she died at

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Speaker 1: the age of twenty four in nineteen forty five, suffering

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Speaker 1: from typhoid fever. Victor was finally freed when the US

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Speaker 1: forces liberated the camp on April twenty seven. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: until August that same year, on returning to Vienna, that

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Speaker 1: he found out about his wife, his mother, and his brother,

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Speaker 1: who are also murdered at Aushwitz. Can I just pause

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Speaker 1: before we keep going? I know this is setting up

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Speaker 1: how this guy overcame it. But when you read that,

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Speaker 1: does that not just break your heart? I know, I

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Speaker 1: guess we should never get numb to the atrocities of

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Speaker 1: German Nazism.

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Speaker 3: And I're gona actually pull up with out while we're

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Speaker 3: talking about Oschwitz. That will shock you a little bit too,

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Speaker 3: But keep going, okay.

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Speaker 1: Through these experiences, Victor Frankel developed his theories on logo therapy,

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Speaker 1: otherwise known as the Third Viennese School of psychology. Logo

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Speaker 1: therapy is a quest to unlock the will to meaning

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Speaker 1: in life. It is searched to find purpose in the

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Speaker 1: chaotic circumstances of the world.

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Speaker 2: Logo means meaning in Greek.

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Speaker 1: Meaning got it. While confined in the death camps of

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Speaker 1: Nazi Germany, Frankel noticed that those around him who did

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Speaker 1: not lose their sense of purpose and meaning were able

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Speaker 1: to survive much longer than those who had lost hope.

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Speaker 1: From those thoughts, he wrote his famous book Man's Search

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Speaker 1: for Meaning. Here he gives us insight into a more

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Speaker 1: fulfilled and meaningful life. Frankl recognized the importance of our

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Speaker 1: power to choose. More specifically, he understood how free we

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Speaker 1: are to choose our own attitudes about our lives, considering

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Speaker 1: all the things he had undergone in his life. This

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Speaker 1: quote is a phenomenal example of his point. Everything can

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Speaker 1: be taken from a man, but one thing, the last

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Speaker 1: of human freedoms to choose one's attitude and a given

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Speaker 1: set of circumstances to choose one's own way. Even though

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Speaker 1: we are all subject to circumstances of our lives, we

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Speaker 1: are free to choose to choose the way that we

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Speaker 1: think about these circumstances. To choose also how we respond

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Speaker 1: to them. I dare say that a few of us

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Speaker 1: will undergo the horrors that Victor experienced in the death camps.

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Speaker 1: Yet in the midst of that situation, he realized his

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Speaker 1: true freedom, the power to choose his attitude. In fact,

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Speaker 1: he said that though the Nazis could take everything from him,

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Speaker 1: they could not take away this, his power to choose

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Speaker 1: his response to them. We all suffer injustices to one

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Speaker 1: greer or another. Though some of these has greater costs,

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Speaker 1: our hurt and helplessness remain the same. Comparing our circumstances

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Speaker 1: to others is dangerous because regardless of the situations, we

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Speaker 1: all have similar feelings. Our choice and our response to

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Speaker 1: those circumstances is what matters. How we think about them

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Speaker 1: and how we act on them. Frankel said this in

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Speaker 1: talking about the power of choice. In concentration camps. We

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Speaker 1: watched and witnessed some of our comrades behave like swine,

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Speaker 1: while others behave like saints. Man has both potentialities within himself.

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Speaker 1: After all, man is the being who has invented the

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Speaker 1: gas chambers of Auschwitz. However, he is also that being

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Speaker 1: who has entered those gas chambers. Upright with the Lord's

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Speaker 1: prayers of the Shema Israel on his lips. To think

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Speaker 1: that both potentialities are available to us, good or evil

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Speaker 1: is a sobering thought. We find a similar sentiment in

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Speaker 1: the worlds of the Old Testament Books of Deuteronomy. Today,

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Speaker 1: I have given you the choice between life and death,

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Speaker 1: between blessings and curses. Now I call on heaven and

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Speaker 1: Earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you

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Speaker 1: would choose life, so that you and your descendants might live.

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Speaker 1: Some people believe in determinism, which takes away our choice.

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Speaker 1: This fatalistic perspective places us at the mercy of things

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Speaker 1: in life that happen to us. But as Frankel noted,

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Speaker 1: our beliefs about this type of perspective matter. If we

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Speaker 1: accept fatalism that our circumstances define us, we are forever

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Speaker 1: held captive to them, But we can choose to believe

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Speaker 1: that we have the freedom to do just that. To

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Speaker 1: choose this is our true freedom. Frankel sums it up.

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Speaker 1: When we are no longer able to change the situation,

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Speaker 1: we are challenged to change ourselves. Wow, I learned too.

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Speaker 3: He wrote that mansers for meeting nine days after he

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Speaker 3: was freed from Auschwitz.

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Speaker 1: Really is not amazing. It is amazing. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking this with me because I'm about to read

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Speaker 1: this to our football team. That's awesome. Yeah, we can

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Speaker 1: choose to rise above our circumstances or be choose to

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Speaker 1: be victims of it. One of the things when I

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Speaker 1: when I talked to when I was speeches in high

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Speaker 1: schools and things like that, you know, I still do

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Speaker 1: a fair amount of those. Interestingly, there's a part in

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Speaker 1: there that I make the point that you know, we

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Speaker 1: have health insurance, we have life insurance, we have car insurance,

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Speaker 1: we have security cameras, we have security systems in our house.

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Speaker 1: We have all of these things that when we wake

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Speaker 1: up and take on the day, make us feel so

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Speaker 1: happy and secure. And it's all false. It's really a crop.

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Speaker 1: The police department, the fire department. The police department shows

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Speaker 1: up after you've been shot, The fire department shows up

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Speaker 1: when your house is on fire.

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Speaker 3: Don't have enough time to get there as fast as

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Speaker 3: you need.

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Speaker 1: That's it. And the point is you can have all

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Speaker 1: the insurance in the world and police department, fire department,

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Speaker 1: everything else, but the truth is, today your house can

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Speaker 1: burn down and nothing you do about it. Today, somebody

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Speaker 1: can break in and still your jewelry. Today, the economic

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Speaker 1: world could collapse and somebody could have a run on

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Speaker 1: the banks and you could end up with no money

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Speaker 1: that literally could have today you're four wayk and investments,

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Speaker 1: the stock market collapse in it could go all go

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Speaker 1: away today. As horrific as it is to think about,

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Speaker 1: somebody that you love could be in a horrific car recondie,

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Speaker 1: or somebody could murder your wife or children. There could

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Speaker 1: be a school shooting that your family's involved in. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's horrible to think of. But the world has evil

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Speaker 1: all in it, and all of the things that you

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Speaker 1: think ensure you that make you comfortable, that you think

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Speaker 1: you're secure in today, something could happen to make all

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Speaker 1: of that go away. Will be right back. So when

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Speaker 1: you come to terms of the fact that really you

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Speaker 1: don't have control over any of that stuff, then you

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Speaker 1: start to really think about what you do have control over.

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Speaker 1: And it's your word, it's your responses, it's how you

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Speaker 1: carry yourself. That's the only thing someone can't reach inside

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Speaker 1: of you and take out of you is your character,

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Speaker 1: your word, and your choice and I really do. I

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Speaker 1: say that to a lot of young people, trying to

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Speaker 1: convince them what's really important in the world. And it's

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Speaker 1: interesting that in that blog summary that Frankel said the

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Speaker 1: Nazis took everything from him. They took his wife, his family,

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Speaker 1: he had typhoid fever, and he liked many other persecuted Jews,

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Speaker 1: they took everything. But he said the one thing they

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Speaker 1: couldn't take from him was his choice. And when you

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Speaker 1: think about that, and when the world hits us in

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Speaker 1: the mouth with a bad day at work, or our

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Speaker 1: kids drive us crazy or something else, and again it's

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Speaker 1: set in there. It's not healthy to compare people's suffering,

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Speaker 1: so I don't mean to do it that way. But

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Speaker 1: the point is, if you think about him and his

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Speaker 1: ability to choose whatever happens this week that drags us down,

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Speaker 1: I think it's really thoughtful and helpful to remember that

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Speaker 1: really the desperation of those events largely depend on how

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Speaker 1: we choose to respond to him.

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Speaker 3: And our response can be really convicting to other people

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Speaker 3: in those moments.

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Speaker 1: That's a really good point. You can be a beacon

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Speaker 1: of light and hope in someone else's darkness by illustrating

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Speaker 1: a choice of response.

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Speaker 3: I mean, when you were reading this, I was thinking

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Speaker 3: about Christ on the crossing forgive them Father, for they

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Speaker 3: don't know what they do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's how we choose to what's that?

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Speaker 3: Oh, so the when you're talking about security, reminding me

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Speaker 3: this great quote from Helen Keller. She said security is

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Speaker 3: mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor

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Speaker 3: do the children of men as a whole experience it.

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Speaker 3: Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than

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Speaker 3: outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing

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Speaker 3: at all.

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Speaker 1: Who wrote that?

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Speaker 2: Helen Keller? Is that great?

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Speaker 1: She's a bad Yeah? I mean, yeah, I wish I

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Speaker 1: had her on my football team. I take people like that.

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Speaker 2: Go visit her home at Alabama. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: you've done it.

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Speaker 1: I know you've told me it's I'm going. Yeah. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think this is a great shop talk. It's just

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Speaker 1: as a reminder that we're all going to be hit

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Speaker 1: in the mouth. We're all going to have problems, and

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Speaker 1: you don't want to compare them because one, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's levels, obviously, but how it feels to you is

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Speaker 1: very very personal. But it's really not about that we

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Speaker 1: should we should expect problems to come. But what we

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Speaker 1: have to do is understand we have the freedom to

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Speaker 1: choose our response to that. And that's liberating in the

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Speaker 1: face of difficulty, And like you said, serves as a

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Speaker 1: beautiful illustration to uplift others who are also dealing with issues,

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Speaker 1: because we all are dealing.

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Speaker 3: With them, all right, something negative. Sixty six percent of

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Speaker 3: US millennials do not know what ashwoodz is what and

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Speaker 3: forty eight percent cannot name a single Nazi concentration camper.

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Speaker 1: Getto are you kidding me? I'm not kidding you. How

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Speaker 1: is that possible?

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Speaker 3: And then one of the most surprising results that survey

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Speaker 3: found two is nearly twenty percent of millennials in gen

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Speaker 3: Z and New York feel that the Jews caused the Holocaust?

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Speaker 2: And I got to tell you, I actually met someone

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Speaker 2: this year.

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Speaker 1: How is that possible?

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Speaker 3: Our education system, two thirds of kids are not on

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Speaker 3: grade level in America.

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Speaker 2: We got a lot of problems.

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Speaker 1: What were you best say? I'm suing, Oh, I.

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Speaker 3: Met somebody this weekend. This was like it's actually like

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Speaker 3: affected me in a negative way. So they're in you know, Mississippi,

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Speaker 3: I meet this person, and she kept talking about black peoples,

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Speaker 3: is like, you know they're not you know, they're not

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Speaker 3: worth anything good.

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Speaker 2: They just cause problems. And I'm like, why are you

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Speaker 2: talking about them as a group like that?

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Speaker 3: Like these are individuals and the data doesn't even show

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Speaker 3: that there's great data. One of my mentors, Brad Wilcox,

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Speaker 3: he's like the leading marriage expert, and I forget the

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Speaker 3: exact data, but it's it's something like, you know, fifty

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Speaker 3: six percent or sixty five percent of black man are

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Speaker 3: married and have a job, right, So it's even just

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Speaker 3: like this misconception out there that there's just like this

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Speaker 3: big swath of people. Is the title of this article

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Speaker 3: is most black men are doing just fine, right, So

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Speaker 3: it's like, why are we category throwing all of these people?

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Speaker 1: What was this racist woman?

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Speaker 3: But she's like, that's just how we grew up in

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Speaker 3: Mississippi and that's just you know, how we What I'm saying,

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Speaker 3: it's it was shocking to me to like hear somebody

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Speaker 3: verbalize this, you know, to me, like a wealthy, affluent

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Speaker 3: person in Mississippi saying this to me, And I'm like.

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Speaker 1: I hope you've got in our grill a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's a boy.

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Speaker 3: But I'm saying it's just like you know, the stats too,

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Speaker 3: A twenty percent of millennials in New York feel like

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Speaker 3: the Jews caused the Holocaust. Like it is shocking how

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Speaker 3: much of this you know races It's.

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Speaker 1: Still it's still out there. Yeah, it's patent ignorance. Yeah

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Speaker 1: that makes me want to throw up, But in good

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Speaker 1: no way.

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Speaker 3: It's the only time I've actually experienced that in Mississippi.

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Speaker 3: So to be fair with all the negative, yeah, let's

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Speaker 3: not hammer Mississippi.

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Speaker 1: Then we end up being what we're detesting.

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Speaker 3: I've been there for a decade and that's the only

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Speaker 3: honestly conversation I've had like that.

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Speaker 1: So it's just incredible to me that people exist in

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Speaker 1: today's world but actually think that way. But here's the thing,

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Speaker 1: how do we choose to respond to that? Yeah, how

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Speaker 1: do we choose to respond to that blatant racism? Well?

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Speaker 3: I told her actually build Donovan's data, which is fascinating,

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Speaker 3: I guess telling you about going to its presentation that

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Speaker 3: in Memphis, eighty percent of the crime is convict committed

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Speaker 3: by twenty percent of the perpetrators, and that number of

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Speaker 3: that twenty percent is only eighteen hundred people. So you

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Speaker 3: have eighteen hundred people terriorizing, holding a one point three

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Speaker 3: million person population hostage. So it's like you think the

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Speaker 3: problem is that big. No, it's like thirteen hundred people.

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Speaker 3: Just throw them in jail, like we got to deal

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Speaker 3: with those people, or six eighteen hundred people. Yeah, and

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Speaker 3: it's really not like there's all these bad people out there,

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Speaker 3: white or blacker and different.

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Speaker 2: It's eighteen hundred people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's we've actually talked about that a lot on

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Speaker 1: the Chamber of the Chamber Commerce. The presidents are going

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Speaker 1: on to the Chamber of Commerce and that it's exactly

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Speaker 1: that there's about two thousand people holding a municipal area

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Speaker 1: total area that's almost close to me, and people hostage

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Speaker 1: by their actions. And the police will tell you that

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Speaker 1: it's they're not arresting new people all the time. They're

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Speaker 1: resting the same people over and over and over again.

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Speaker 1: So get rid of those two thousand people in your

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Speaker 1: crime drops by about eighty percent. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But Bill Donovant is choosing to be positive about the situation.

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Speaker 1: Exactly right. And we can choose to detest that woman

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Speaker 1: or try to educate her we can choose to not

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Speaker 1: fathom how sixty percent of millennials had never even heard

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Speaker 1: of Oshwitz, or choose to educate them.

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Speaker 2: Make sure that our schools are actually teaching them.

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Speaker 1: Out those for God's sakes, that's the one that we

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Speaker 1: need to do a whole We need to do a

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Speaker 1: series on school. Yeah, yeah, we should figure it out,

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Speaker 1: all right. So that's a lot. That is how the

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Speaker 1: shop talk's supposed to go.

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Speaker 3: You know, actually be great to do a follow up

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Speaker 3: shop talk once you've read the book. Yeah, and then

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Speaker 3: deeper thoughts from Bill on Man Search remaining.

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Speaker 1: I'll do that, and I promise you I will read

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Speaker 1: the book. I own it. I got to read the book. Okay, guys,

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Speaker 1: how important is the power choice? Well, since it's the

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Speaker 1: only thing that you really own that nobody can take

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Speaker 1: from you, I would say that would be something that

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Speaker 1: is of vital importance. Victor Frankel's life and his book

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Speaker 1: A Man Search for Meaning got a lot to learn

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Speaker 1: from it, first and foremost as a member of the army.

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Speaker 1: In normal folks, protect what you can protect, your word,

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Speaker 1: your response to issues, your ability to choose your response

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Speaker 1: to those issues. If you enjoyed this episode. Please rate,

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Speaker 1: review it, share it on social, share it with friends,

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Speaker 1: subscribe to the podcast, and write me anytime at Bill

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Speaker 1: at normal folks dot us. If you have ideas for

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Speaker 1: shop talk, we'd love to take them up. And if

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Speaker 1: you have ideas for people would be guests on an

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Speaker 1: Army and Normal Folks, Alex will call them up and

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Speaker 1: see if they can actually put two sentences together and

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Speaker 1: then we can interview them and then how.

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Speaker 2: It works, how it works.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, that's it. Enjoyed being with you in the

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Speaker 1: shop and we'll see you next week. To ta