WEBVTT - Christiane Amanpour 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.720 Welcome to River Cafe, Table four, a production of iHeartRadio 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:05.360 and Adamized Studios. 0:00:06.440 --> 0:00:08.799 There is no such thing as a simple phone call 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:13.600 with my beautiful friend Christian Amanpour. Asking, as I did yesterday, 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.440 where she's been, she answers Ukraine. Asking where she's going, 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:21.160 she says, Afghanistan. This is what it is like having 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:23.840 a fearless friend you love, who puts yourself in danger, 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:27.800 reporting facts, holding people to account, and telling the truth 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:30.800 from wherever she is and whoever she is talking to. 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:35.279 Christian goes on hiking trips, biking trips, retreats to her 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:38.000 house in the Eeldarray, flies to New York to see 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:41.199 her son Darius. The food of Persia is her passion. 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:45.239 Today I'm going to interview the most brilliant interviewer there is, 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:52.960 and today I think I'm the fearless one. I ask 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:56.880 everyone to read a recipe from one of our cookbooks, 0:00:56.960 --> 0:00:59.400 and you said to me, Actually, what I'd like to 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:03.240 do is talk about at the box sets, because yeah, 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:05.760 and what do you read the menu for the box 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:06.800 set that you've chosen? 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:10.200 I will, so, of course River Cafe for cutua fabulous. 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:14.280 Then a zucchini the Dattarini tomatoes, broad beans, slow cook 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:17.920 summer peas never had those were great, Cannellini beans, an 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:20.800 Italian spirit. It all sounds simple, but it's delicious. The 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:23.919 other thing I really love is the spatchcock chicken against 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:26.640 deceptive because it looks like it's only for a few people, 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:30.120 but it's for feeding the five thousand, basically. And the 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:34.640 other thing I love is the pistachio cake. Oh my goodness. Honestly, 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:40.119 I'm originally Persian, Iranian and English and anything pistachio I love, 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:42.760 and that is literally the best pistachio cake ever is 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:47.320 so good. So Ruthie, I chose a box set because, 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:49.760 to be Frank, I don't cook, and so to read 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:52.600 a recipe sounded a little bit inauthentic for me, no 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:54.560 matter how much I love eating your food at the 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:59.200 River Cafe. And I have been incredibly spoiled during COVID 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:02.560 and the last two years. Great friends people like Laura 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:04.920 and Eric Felner, Laura Bailey and Eric Feller who come 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:07.880 here a lot, spoiled me a lot with your box set, 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:10.800 and it was really something that was not just a 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:14.040 luxury but a massive comfort. And I'd gone through a 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:17.720 bit of an illness last year, and they really really 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:20.639 sustained me, especially when people came to my house. You know, 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.000 I was able to offer them things without myself having 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:23.440 to cook. 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:25.480 I don't mind if you don't make because you're you 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:28.079 know what what what we really? I mean, whether you 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:30.040 cook or you eat. And you do cook, and you 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:32.440 love food, and I think that you want to eat well. 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:37.320 But what we need Christian amanpour for and I need 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:39.640 you from my friend, but we all the world needs 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.520 you for the as I said, the fearless. Do you 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:45.280 like being all fearless? You know people say I'm fearless 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:46.440 because I ski down mountains. 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:49.040 No, I think fearless to be frank, I will give 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:52.480 you my definition. I said once that I've lived most 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:55.560 of my professional life in a state of repressed fear. 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:58.760 Because you'd really be dumb if you said you weren't 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:03.160 afraid of going to all these very terrifying places where 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:05.680 you are in the crosshairs. And you're also a target, 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:09.440 not just randomly injured or killed like so many of 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:11.640 us have been, because we're deliberately targeted. 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.880 So they know, they know who you are, and they 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:17.519 know where you are, and they know your retournalists and. 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:20.200 Me and anybody else is there with the words press 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:22.360 on their fronts or on their vehicles. Yeah, and they 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:24.320 do it because they don't want the truth out. 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:26.800 Yeah, and that they would be give me some example. 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.240 Well, let's say in the Bosnia War, it was the 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:33.799 Bosnian Serb militants who were attacking the civilians in Sarajevo. 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:37.080 That was their battle plan, much like what Putin has 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:38.280 been doing in Ukraine. 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:41.680 Christian what was it like living under siege in Sarajevo. 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:45.640 Well, it became the longest siege in modern history. It 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:49.400 was nearly three years long, which meant that the Bosnian Serbs, 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:52.560 backed by Serbia, who were also backed then by Russia, 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:58.320 were besieging a city of ordinary civilians in the most 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:02.280 medieval way. And it meant that food wasn't coming in. 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:06.280 It meant that, you know, they cut off heat, electricity, water, 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.440 and they were bombarding. What then happened was that the 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:13.400 United Nations got an agreement to have an airlift into 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:16.560 the Sarajevo airport and only those people the UN was 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:19.440 able to use it, and they would bring in pallets 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:23.359 of humanitarian aids, so big palettes came in by military 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:30.480 cargo planes, and they were your basics, what flower, oil, beans, cans, 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:34.200 stuff that was nonperishable that people could use. But the 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:38.839 motif in terms of food was severe food poverty the 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.880 very very first winter under siege. And it sounds like 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:43.960 a cliche, and I didn't even believe it till I 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:47.760 saw it, but literally, people were foraging, honestly, trying to 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:51.480 get dandelion leaves and grasses and things like that that 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.760 they might be able to boil up into something. Some 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:57.480 of them may have had little vegetable gardens with lettuce 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:01.120 or spinach or whatever it was, but there was no 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:06.239 real protein. They could make bread because flower was coming 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:10.400 in eventually by the UN, but it was basic. And 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:12.880 you know, I just remember living in the holiday in 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:16.600 with all the press there. I didn't realize until afterwards. 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:20.160 The managers had to pretty much bribe the besiegers and 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:23.760 some of the UN peacekeeping forces who came in to 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:27.560 get things like eggs and to get things like, I 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:30.360 don't know whatever. We didn't need much. We really didn't 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:33.919 to do with not much. It was nothing very tasty, 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:37.080 But I will never forget what an effort they made 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:41.040 to keep us fed. There was some breakfast. Again, bread 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:44.600 featured a lot. Sometimes we had some of the local 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:47.880 fetter cheesy kind of stuff, which was like you know 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:50.680 that they could easily sort of get or bribe or 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:55.159 you know. I just don't remember much. There wasn't potatoes 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:58.160 or tomatoes or or anything. 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:02.159 Because all the farming or the the just like now 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:04.920 in Ukraine when it's bombed all the time and there's 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:07.800 a scorched earth policy, you can't actually grow. 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:10.880 And remember again this was an urban center, so anyway, 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:13.280 there wasn't much farming going on in the city of Sarajevo, 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:16.479 and it was it was a terrible situation. And I 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:20.200 remember when the seeds started to be slowly lifted, one 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:23.719 of my one of my friends went across the lines 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:27.159 and came back with a bag of I think it 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:29.880 was tomatoes, that's my memory, and it was the first 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:32.839 fresh tomatoes we'd seen. How long we've been there for years. 0:06:32.880 --> 0:06:34.560 But of course I went in and out in a 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:36.599 military plane, which was the only way to get out 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:38.880 if you could. But I did spend most of the 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:42.080 of those three years of the nineties in Bosnia. 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:45.080 And when you would return on the plane from Sarajeva 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:47.440 going to Paris. Are you thinking about what you're going 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:47.719 to eat? 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:50.479 Are you thinking no, first time, thinking of leaving those 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:52.320 people behind and feeling very guilty. 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:55.560 I was going to ask you about the kindness of strangers, 0:06:55.760 --> 0:07:00.080 you know, being in these very tough situations. Is the 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:04.040 connections Are they very firmly established. 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:07.000 Very firmly established, because to be frank, apart from anything else, 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:11.360 your life depends on having good relations with your competitors 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:12.960 and your colleagues, you know. 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:14.080 And the people of the city. 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:18.800 Yes, yes, they were mostly grateful for us to tell 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:21.520 their story, but and I have to say it is important, 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:25.080 they did begin to get angry. I remember them saying, 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:28.360 you know, turn your cameras away from us. This isn't 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:31.560 the Sarajevo Safari. You keep telling our stories and the 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:34.680 world doesn't intervene, doesn't help us. And those were very 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:37.360 painful moments because you did realize that they were telling 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:40.080 the truth, that yeah, we could go to them, talk 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:42.600 to them, get their experiences. See what they were trying 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:44.760 to cook for their families, which was pretty much nothing 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:48.120 in their little kitchens, and trying to survive this war 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:51.480 and nothing was happening. To help them, so then they 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:53.320 would take it out on us because we were the 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:57.400 closest for them. Yeah, and it was painful. That was painful. 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:00.280 So I have no illusion that we are well comes 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:03.440 with open arms and we're the great saviors at all. 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:07.800 At all. We do a job. We if we're lucky, 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:10.560 we tell the truth and the truth gets out. And 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:15.440 if we're very, very lucky, it causes intervention. So it 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:18.679 didn't in Sarajevo until the Cerebnitza massacre, which was nearly 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:21.480 three years well three years after the war started. Of course, 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:24.400 in Ukraine it was totally different, and it's great that 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:28.160 the West did intervene to help Ukraine defend itself when 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:31.880 it was illegally occupied, invaded, and the Russians went to 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:34.520 war against them. So the difference in the world's reaction 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:36.240 is remarkable. 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:49.040 It shall we talk about it around? Yes, what did 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:50.000 your father and mother did? 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:54.880 My father was he worked in a travel agency, and 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:57.520 my mom was, you know, what do you call it? 0:08:57.520 --> 0:09:01.280 A homemaker? And she looked after us. We're four girls. 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:04.880 I'm the oldest of my mother English Catholic, my father 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:08.000 Iranian Moslim. So I grew up in a very mixed 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:11.920 ethnic and you know household that I think served me 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:15.000 very well in my career because I then understood that 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:19.880 actually you can get past identity. You can actually always 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:23.920 find the commonality in people. And you know, the idea 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:29.240 of mixed ethnicities or religions or nationalities means nothing to me. 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:33.559 It's just normal, normal, normal, normal. Also, my mum was 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.120 a very strong woman and really did run the household 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:41.400 and was very influential on us and let's say our 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:45.480 moral and spiritual education. I'm quite a strict Catholic and 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:48.680 was my father allowed it, never said I'm the man 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:51.040 and I'm Muslim and you have to bring up in Iran, 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:53.240 you know, the kids as Muslims. None of that. He 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:59.320 absolutely agreed to my mother's demands. But it was a 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:02.199 very I just remember a very very happy household that 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:04.440 actually revolved around my mother's cooking. 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:06.480 Oh that's what I was going to ask. So your 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:07.720 mother was British? 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:08.040 Yes? 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:09.760 Did your mother bring British film? 0:10:10.080 --> 0:10:13.480 Really? You see, I don't even think, well, yes and no. 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:16.160 I don't know whether my mother was a particularly accomplished 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:18.240 cook before she got married. I think she learned on 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:21.120 the job, so to speak, and she did become excellent, 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:24.160 and we were the only ones really that in my 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:27.320 group of friends that were serving more sort of Western food. 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:30.400 So my friends would come to my house for my 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:35.680 mother's pizza, for her chocolate cake, which was I think 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:38.120 kind of like a flowerless chocolate cake before I even 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:40.360 knew that that was the case, but a very rich 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:44.520 chocolate cake that was beautifully iced and was delicious, and 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:47.360 everybody loved it. And chocolate moose. I mean, I have 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.760 such great memories of my mum making these things and 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:53.199 that I would be sitting at the table just trying 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:55.320 to grab the spoon like all kids do, you know, 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:58.040 and lick the spoon and just love it. An angel cake. 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:00.400 So we had the chocolate cake and then the angel 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:04.320 cake and it. It just was sort of a theme 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:06.680 of my childhood that my friends loved it and were 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:08.360 always anxious to come to my house. 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:10.319 And what about the Persian. 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:14.480 Well, the Persian food was mostly when we went out 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:17.480 to friends' houses or to families houses, but also on 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.200 a Friday, which is sort of the Sunday in the 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:24.160 Middle East. It's like the Sabbath Friday. Everybody's the holiday 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:30.080 of the weekend, and the traditional Persian rural meal is 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:35.040 called cello kabab. Cello is the rice. Cello cabab is 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:38.040 the rice. So it's this pile of steaming white rice 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:40.840 with saffron on the top and a crust underneath, which 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:44.960 is very and it's very difficult to cheap. Yeah, it's 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:48.760 really tough to make. I do Actually I did it well. 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:51.200 First of all, you have to boil the rice al 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:53.880 dente as if you were doing pasta. Then you take 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:56.240 it out. You've already washed it, got rid of all 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:59.040 the extrain, your starch. You take it out, and then 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:05.640 you have this very substantial iron pot, and you probably 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:07.839 melt a little butter in the bottom and let that 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:09.920 go all over the bottom. Then you take a layer 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:12.559 of the rice and you pack it down very hard. 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:16.320 Then you put the rest of the rice in. Remembering 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:18.320 Irun you cook for lots of people, so this is 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:20.800 a big pot. So you put a thin layer, yes, 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:24.360 and pack it down now, yes, and then you put 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:26.839 the other pyramid on. You put holes with the you know, 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:29.320 with the handle of a spoon. You pour in copious 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:32.120 amounts of melted butter, and then you put a top 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:35.679 covered by a dish towel. And that then steams. You 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:39.240 put the heat on quite high for about ten minutes 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:42.120 to give the crispiness. Then you immediately turn it down 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:44.760 and the rest is about thirty to forty minutes of 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:47.720 steaming this rice, so you have a very light but 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:51.360 buttery rice saffron. Then you pour on afterwards when you've 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:53.120 dished it up. And if you've done it right, and 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:56.439 you've got the high heat low heat done just right, 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:58.880 you get this wonderful crust called taddig. 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:01.280 And this is from who says she doesn't like to cook. 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:03.480 I like to remember. 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:07.600 Sorry, I like. 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:09.520 To remember, and I like to eat exactly. 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:12.240 But can I just ask you in that maybe I 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:15.800 got it wrong. But the rice was cooked before you pressed. 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:21.959 It down, cooked, so it's still very fluffy. You don't 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:22.679 overcook it. 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:25.120 You don't worrying about cooking and then cook. 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:28.440 That's why you have to make it aldente. It's not 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:30.000 like you put a bunch of rice on us and 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:34.040 then let all the water absorb. Okay, And it's really delicious. 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:36.000 And then the thing that went with it is called 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:38.160 is the cab of the meat. So it's either boneless 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:42.640 chicken or chicken on the bone or it's minced lamb 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:44.839 with other stuff that you put in it. Don't ask 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:47.800 me because I haven't done it. Or it's more of 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:52.400 a file steak like the pile, a very tender and 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:55.200 that you put on the bus. I like it all. 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:57.600 I don't not so keen on the mince. I find 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:02.800 that somewhat sometimes a little indigestible. But you know, before 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:04.920 the age of salmonella and all the rest of it, 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:08.800 instead of when you served the rice, you would get 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:12.160 a raw egg. Crack the egg, separate the white from 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:13.920 the yolk, and then you put the yolk in the 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:16.160 rice and mix that up. Instead of butter, because you've 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:17.080 already got a lot of butter. 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:20.040 If there are even yeah, I think if you heat once, 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:23.320 you eat it up. But going back to Tehran, your 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:26.800 father was version and did you have grandparents? 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:30.920 Yes, you see, my father was nineteen years older than 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:33.680 my mother and he was the youngest of five boys. 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:37.680 So just imagine how old My grandmother was, very very old, 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:40.760 And all I remember was this very old lady who 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:44.200 was quite terrifying, quite strict. But we did visit her 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:46.760 on Fridays. I remember again, that's the holiday. And all 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:48.840 I remember is that we would come in. She would 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:51.040 be sat at the end of the room in what 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:53.800 looked like an armchair throwne and then all of us 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:56.440 would be arranged, you know, around the sides of the 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:59.240 room and in front of us with these little tiny 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:04.200 side table on which were very carefully peeled oranges, I remember, 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:08.400 And so we'd eat the oranges and have some pistachio nuts, 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:10.920 and it was quite formal. We'd have to go and 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:14.040 kiss each cheek and then honestly we couldn't wait to leave. 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:16.120 But I'm sure she was fabulous, and to be frank, 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:18.160 I wish I'd known more about my granda. Maybe she 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:20.680 was tired, for sure, I mean the mother. 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:22.040 And I think I'm going to try, you know, giving 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:23.280 my children nuts. 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:28.640 Yeah, yeah, because it is, and it's an interesting history. 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.160 You remember her, she definitely remember her. 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:32.120 Being nineteen. 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:35.160 My father's father had died, so I never met him, 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:36.720 and my father barely knew him. One thing I do 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:39.040 remember about tomatoes though, My dad said that when he 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:42.760 was the youngest of these five strapping boys, they used 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:44.960 to bully him and jump on top of him and 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:48.640 get this stuff his mouth with tomatoes, which he hated. 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:55.480 Funny, I remember that story of memory. And he didn't 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:56.800 cook at all. 0:15:56.520 --> 0:16:00.160 No, but he did do a mean vinigrette. And to 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:03.880 this day that's my vinaigrette, and I teach it to whoever. 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:04.120 Comes in my. 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:07.720 I'm not going to tell me yet. No the rest, 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:09.360 I'm not going to tell you. I don't want to 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:12.480 tell the world no secret. 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:16.600 Oh that's you know. There's some people the thing I 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:19.760 know sometimes they always say that restaurants, will you know, 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:23.120 give a recipe and then leave something out or you know, but. 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:24.800 Then it would be no good if I gave it 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:25.800 and then left something out. 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:26.400 I wouldn't do that. 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:28.280 It's the only thing I know. It's the only secret 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:30.120 I have a good vinagrette. It is hard to me, 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:30.720 it is. 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:30.960 You know. 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:33.240 And my dad. I always remember my dad, you know, 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:36.080 he died in twenty sixteen, and I always remember that 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:38.160 when ever I have the vinaigrette. 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:39.560 And have you told it to Daris? 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:44.520 Yes, and to whoever comes into my orbit and you know, 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:45.760 needs to make some vinaigrette. 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:48.520 Do you remember going to markets in Tehran? 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:53.120 Not markets? Well, actually no I did. They're called bazaars. Obviously, 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:56.479 It's not like the French or Italian or British markets, 0:16:56.520 --> 0:17:00.760 but bazaars which were I guess almost even more magnificent, 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:03.040 because I mean, if anybody's been to the Great Bazaar 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:07.480 in Istanbul, imagine that in all the other Middle Eastern countries. 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:10.920 And we used to go. I do remember my mother 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:13.320 would do the shopping. Obviously, I would just be amazed 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:15.880 by the color and the vibrancy and that I want 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:17.280 this and I want that, even if I didn't know 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:21.000 what it was. I'm afraid that the men at that 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:26.040 time were very cheeky and quite intrusive. So I used 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:28.399 to go, not knowing any better, in my shorts or 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:31.080 my short skirt or whatever and get my bum pinched. 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:34.000 That was quite dirry ger in those days. My mom 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:37.160 told me from now on I had to bring a 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:40.600 flip flop, you know, sandal, hold it behind my bum 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:46.439 and if anybody dared boo, you know, bang them. It 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:47.119 really worked. 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:49.840 When I went to Syria with Richard, we went to 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:53.440 Damascus and we went to the bazaar again. The food 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:55.680 it was very different from the market you would see 0:17:55.720 --> 0:18:00.000 in France or Italy, and was even more compelling because 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.480 there was the sanctions. There was no Coca Cola sign. 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.840 There was not you know, any Hamburgers or anything Western 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:10.119 at all, and was growing up in the Shahs. Was 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:13.400 that more American? Was it because there was a good relationship, Yeah, 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:15.280 I mean it was, it was. 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:18.120 It was. It was more friendly to the West, for sure. 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:21.880 But remember it was only a minority of people who 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:24.720 were able to benefit from that. Although he did bring 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:27.720 in you know, education rights for women all of that. 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:30.960 But in the end, you know, there was this religious 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:35.720 revolution in nineteen seventy nine, theocracy, and to be honest, weirdly, 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:39.080 the Iranian Revolution propelled me into my career because that's 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:41.560 when I realized, a I needed to make it on 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:44.280 my own. I could not rely on my lovely parents 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:46.720 and my idyllic childhood and whatever they thought I might 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.000 do with the rest of my life, and I needed 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:50.480 to make my way. 0:18:50.359 --> 0:19:00.440 In the world. 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:08.240 The Iranian Revolution was a first hand experienced historical earthquake 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:12.560 that clearly still has reverberations to this day, and I 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:14.560 realized that I actually want to tell those kind of stories. 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:16.920 So you were actually there when Harmony. 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:19.560 My father sent me out about two weeks if I 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:21.800 remember before for many came back. Yeah, he came back 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:24.320 around the first of February and I was sent out 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.240 in the mid middle January nineteen seventy nine, and I'm 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:32.239 glad well first to England, where my English grandmother was, 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:34.960 and then on to America to go to university. I 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:37.879 decided that's where I needed to make my way in 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:39.920 the world, to go to university be a journalist. 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:43.280 Did you have experience of the United States and Britain? 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:45.359 It wasn't like being lifted from Iran. 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.320 I had no experience with the United States. I'd visited 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:51.080 once as a teenager, but that's it. But I obviously, 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:52.720 you know, every summer I would go and stay with 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:55.879 my mother's family. We would all go to England for 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:56.600 the summer holiday. 0:19:56.640 --> 0:19:58.040 And you didn't have pistasia nuts. 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:01.480 We didn't. My grandmother was a very very simple cook, 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:06.400 but great you know, crem caramel, roast, pork and crackling. 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:09.399 Those were the things fish fingers and when. 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:12.119 You were living with your grandmother alone your parents were 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:12.879 still in Tehran. 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:16.200 Yeah, I didn't really live with her really much. I mean, 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:18.560 we were in boarding school for a period of time 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:21.600 during the seventies, my sister and I and we went, 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:24.399 you know, for half terms and weekends because the parents 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:27.679 were living in Iran. That's where our home was, but 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:29.760 we'd go back for the major holidays and then. 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:32.160 You were on your own. So tell the story of 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:35.040 what happened and when you went to the United States, 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:35.840 so you. 0:20:35.760 --> 0:20:38.959