Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, it's a key. As we get to the
Speaker 1: end of the year, we wanted to rebroadcast one of
Speaker 1: our favorite episodes, a story about a young man called
Speaker 1: Francisco Ordan. Francisco suspected his employer for breaking the law
Speaker 1: and went on to secretly report that company to the government.
Speaker 1: I recently sat down with Francisco to ask him about
Speaker 1: what his life has been like since we first aired
Speaker 1: that episode in May. For that conversation, stay tuned to
Speaker 1: the end. Just over a year ago, Francisco Reordan was
Speaker 1: a twenty seven year old software engineer, and he joined
Speaker 1: a venture capital firm called Rothenburg Ventures. The company's founder,
Speaker 1: Mike Rothenberg, was a young, charismatic Stanford University grad, and
Speaker 1: he was known around Silicon Valley for throwing these extravagant parties.
Speaker 1: Francisco had heard about his new employer's reputation, partly from
Speaker 1: a skeptical story I wrote for Business This Week back
Speaker 1: in At the time, Francisco didn't think much of it.
Speaker 1: It made me think it was a little bit risky,
Speaker 1: but um I still thought the company was making good
Speaker 1: investments based on their portfolio, so I said brush those
Speaker 1: concerns aside. And in retrospect, uh, I shouldn't have done that.
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have done that. Francisco says this because soon
Speaker 1: after he joined he started noticing some unusual things, things
Speaker 1: that were raising his suspicions. The more he dug around,
Speaker 1: the more he found. In just a few months in
Speaker 1: he discovered something he thought was bad, maybe even against
Speaker 1: the law, something that bothered him enough to take the
Speaker 1: very serious step of secretly reporting it to government regulators. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, the internal debate was what will people think
Speaker 1: of me for doing this? I felt, I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: it was the right thing to do, but you know,
Speaker 1: I thought about what are the consequences to me personally?
Speaker 1: By love the whistle. A week after Francisco filled out
Speaker 1: an online form on the website of the SEC short
Speaker 1: for the Securities and Exchange Commission, a lawyer from the
Speaker 1: commission got in touch with him. From there, Francisco became
Speaker 1: something of a double agent, providing the government information about
Speaker 1: his employer. Francisco's actions set in motion a series of
Speaker 1: events that ultimately brought down one of the venture capital
Speaker 1: industries aspiring stars. In addition to being investigated by the
Speaker 1: sec Rothenburg and his firm today is facing lawsuits from investors, creditors,
Speaker 1: and former employees. Hi, I'm aki Ito and I'm Adam Satriano.
Speaker 1: And this week on Decrypted, the whistleblower who secretly took
Speaker 1: on an ambitious venture capitalist is coming out, revealing his
Speaker 1: identity and publicly speaking out about his experiences for the
Speaker 1: very first time. Francisco said he decided to speak to
Speaker 1: us in part to encourage others to take action if
Speaker 1: they're seeing bad behavior at their companies. In Silicon Valley,
Speaker 1: where corporate governance sometimes takes a back seat to growing
Speaker 1: fast and making a name for yourself, employees are serving
Speaker 1: as one of the industry's toughest checks. So, Adam, you
Speaker 1: wrote a story about Mike Rothenberg and his VC firm.
Speaker 1: Back in the headline was telling Lee Silicon Valley's party animal.
Speaker 1: Yes he did not like that. Yeah, Bet, give us
Speaker 1: some background about the guy. What got me interested was
Speaker 1: you had this young venture capitalist. He had raised a
Speaker 1: decent amount of money, and I had also heard the
Speaker 1: story that he had first introduced Mark Zuckerberg to Instagram's founder,
Speaker 1: Kevin's instrom This was back when they or in their
Speaker 1: college days. But more than anything. I had heard about
Speaker 1: these events that he was throwing around San Francisco. Yeah,
Speaker 1: can you give us an example. Well, my favorite was
Speaker 1: these events that he had had that he called puppy Parties,
Speaker 1: and they would rent out puppies that people could pet.
Speaker 1: But there was this other one they did Quity called
Speaker 1: founders Field Day, and this was at a T and
Speaker 1: T park where the San Francisco Giants baseball team plays,
Speaker 1: and he rented the whole thing out, outfitted it with
Speaker 1: virtual reality boosts and other thing for entrepreneurs to come
Speaker 1: and play with. Yeah, this is the thing that the
Speaker 1: HBO show Silicon Valley ended up parodying, right. It was
Speaker 1: this perfect example of all the absurdity and exuberance of
Speaker 1: the startup lifestyle. Richard, after your perfect game at tech
Speaker 1: Crunch Disrupt a few weeks ago, we fell in love
Speaker 1: with you and your tech. Look. We know everyone in
Speaker 1: the valley is after you, and we know that you're
Speaker 1: probably going to go with Peter Gregory, but we'd love
Speaker 1: to have you come play on our team. Let's stern
Speaker 1: Teller Capital funding on your Series A financing, because together, Richard,
Speaker 1: we'd be oh home run and Rothenberg really seemed like
Speaker 1: a character from the show. When I interviewed him for
Speaker 1: that story in I sometimes wondered if he was putting
Speaker 1: me on. He has a real gift for hyperbole, even
Speaker 1: by the lofty standards of Silicon Valley. Here's a clip
Speaker 1: from a talkie gave its Stanford a few years ago,
Speaker 1: and we want to talk a little bit aboutlue oceans.
Speaker 1: So when you're in a blue ocean, it means that
Speaker 1: it's kind of a new market. It hasn't fully developed,
Speaker 1: and people are I'm not yet sure where it's gonna go,
Speaker 1: but everybody wins because it's a blue ocean and everybody's
Speaker 1: gathering the opportunities. And now back to red oceans. Rewind
Speaker 1: what did you just say. In a blue ocean, everybody
Speaker 1: can win. And the story we did wasn't a flattering profile.
Speaker 1: That some former employees told me that Rothenberg made them
Speaker 1: buy up all the week's issues of Business Week at
Speaker 1: the airport so they wouldn't see him. But the firm
Speaker 1: was doing just fine even after your story. Right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they aren't a big firm by any stretch, but they
Speaker 1: were backing a lot of companies like the stock trading
Speaker 1: app robin Hood, which is now valued at more than
Speaker 1: a billion dollars, and it was with that backdrop that
Speaker 1: Francisco joined Rothenburg Ventures to run their website and office
Speaker 1: I T system. We recently visited Francisco at his one
Speaker 1: bedroom apartment in one of San Francisco's residential neighborhoods. It's
Speaker 1: in an old building built after the nineteen o six earthquake.
Speaker 1: It's at the top of one of the city's many
Speaker 1: large hills. Thanks, thanks, I thought, okay. He gave us
Speaker 1: a quick tour. It's essentially a nerdy bachelor pad. There
Speaker 1: was a big whiteboard on one side of the living room,
Speaker 1: which I've seen in the bedrooms of some of my
Speaker 1: other friends who are engineered is too. It's so that
Speaker 1: they can write out their code by hand. Francisco so
Speaker 1: had these three big computer monitors on his desk, plus
Speaker 1: a few consoles to play his video games. And he
Speaker 1: had these framed pictures of Apple's famous ad campaign dubbed
Speaker 1: Think Different, featuring people like Picasso. His bedroom and his
Speaker 1: kitchen were a little bit messy. Can I see what's
Speaker 1: in your fridge? Oh, you're soilent drinker. For our listeners,
Speaker 1: Soilent is a drink made out of these different nutritional powders,
Speaker 1: and it's really popular with coders who don't want to
Speaker 1: spend time eating real food. Anyway, that's all to say
Speaker 1: that Francisco is a lot like other young engineers in
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley. He went to Stanford and the first job
Speaker 1: he took straight out of school ended up getting bought
Speaker 1: by the tech giant Cisco, not to be confused with
Speaker 1: the nickname that Francisco goes by. And then with that
Speaker 1: small amount of money he ended up making from that acquisition,
Speaker 1: he started his own company that was in exchange for
Speaker 1: betting on the price of bitcoin. This kind of options
Speaker 1: market for bitcoin turned out not to be compliant with
Speaker 1: federal regulations, so the government sent him a letter to
Speaker 1: shut it down, and he did not long after. In February,
Speaker 1: Rothenberg Ventures hired Francisco. Rothenberg offered him a salary of
Speaker 1: a hundred and thirty thousand dollars plus a thirty thousand
Speaker 1: dollar bonus. And although he said the firm had scaled
Speaker 1: back on some of those glitzier events, it still had
Speaker 1: a luxury suite at the basketball arena where the Golden
Speaker 1: State Warriors played. He went to the games and even
Speaker 1: saw a Rihanna concert there once, all in the company's dime.
Speaker 1: It was a sweet job for a young guy like Francisco,
Speaker 1: but it didn't take him long to start to notice
Speaker 1: some things. Well. The first red flag was actually my
Speaker 1: first week on. The director of finance, who was also
Speaker 1: the head of clients quit. She just ran out. I
Speaker 1: didn't know why. Nobody explained it to me, but that
Speaker 1: was the first red flag. Was it clear that something
Speaker 1: was weird was going on? It was clear that something
Speaker 1: weird was going on, but I didn't know what it was.
Speaker 1: I thought it might have been something personal or um.
Speaker 1: One of the things I suspected was that it was
Speaker 1: just like too broy an environment. For Not long after,
Speaker 1: Francisco said, there was another troubling incident. Uh, there's a
Speaker 1: growing incident. Somebody on the investment team grow up to
Speaker 1: an executive assistant. Um, I might get it up, putting
Speaker 1: him on unpaid leave for a while, and then um,
Speaker 1: he came back shortly before everyone was put on you know,
Speaker 1: let's out basically where it was it? Where did this happen?
Speaker 1: Just at the office at a party? It was a yeah, party.
Speaker 1: It was actually Mike's birthday. Everyone went out to a
Speaker 1: bar tonic un poll and lots of shots. UM. The
Speaker 1: growing thing happened kind of ruin the night. So that
Speaker 1: so there's some really red flags. But so you hit
Speaker 1: your it got your suspicion zone. But then you're still
Speaker 1: learning things. What else were you learning? Yeah, so I
Speaker 1: had my initial suspicions. UM, A whole theme throughout everything
Speaker 1: was just ridiculous spending UM any online sports suites UM.
Speaker 1: And then I had some additional suspicions UM the whole time.
Speaker 1: River STUDIOSUM was in the same building. But Mike never
Speaker 1: really explained the funding situation. Let me explain a little bit.
Speaker 1: In addition to Rothenberg Ventures the VC firm, Mike has
Speaker 1: also set up another business, a production company called River
Speaker 1: Studios that made virtual reality videos, and he set up
Speaker 1: another business on top of that called River Enterprises, which
Speaker 1: was another way of investing in companies. Francisco says Mike
Speaker 1: own a major interest in these new businesses. They were
Speaker 1: supposed to be separate from the venture capital firm that
Speaker 1: Francisco worked for, which was managing other people's money, but
Speaker 1: Francisco was being regularly asked to do work for the
Speaker 1: other businesses, and that made him uncomfortable because he was
Speaker 1: supposed to work for just the VC fund. I felt
Speaker 1: like I'd been do by Mike. I felt like, you know,
Speaker 1: I came in to build the sell people at all,
Speaker 1: to make things easier for the LPs. It turned out
Speaker 1: he was actually using it, as you know, a way
Speaker 1: to mislead the LPs. Like one of the one of
Speaker 1: the things that it was used for, it was sending
Speaker 1: out nass emails with notifications about the annual reports. And
Speaker 1: these feral reports didn't tell the whole story. He left
Speaker 1: out big things. Francisco had access to the company's I
Speaker 1: T system, so he started doing some sleuthing. In a minute,
Speaker 1: we'll find out what he discovered. Before the break, Francisco
Speaker 1: had started noticing some things that made him suspicious of
Speaker 1: the venture capital firm he just joined, and he started
Speaker 1: poking around on top of the lavish spending. Francisco would
Speaker 1: later discover internal documents that showed that the management fees
Speaker 1: the VC firm had collected from its investors. So this
Speaker 1: is the money specifically intended for operating the fund was
Speaker 1: actually being used by the Virtual reality companies that Rothenburg
Speaker 1: was funding. Instead, I kept escalating and escalating UM. Also,
Speaker 1: because I made the LP portal, I I was asked
Speaker 1: to upload annual reports, so I look at those, and
Speaker 1: I'd see that these companies weren't disclosed them like there's
Speaker 1: zero mentioned or River Enterprises in any of the annual
Speaker 1: reports UM zero. I mentioned a River Studios and annual
Speaker 1: reports UM Also, so that you were concerned that investors
Speaker 1: didn't even know that they were in sort of indirectly
Speaker 1: at least funding some of these other activities exactly. Most
Speaker 1: people shrugged off what they were seeing at Rothenberg Ventures.
Speaker 1: I spoke with Warmer employees who said that even though
Speaker 1: that they had felt uncomfortable, nobody thought to step forward.
Speaker 1: And it might sound like Francisco's nitpicking these tiny technical
Speaker 1: details here, but I ran it by Andrew Touch, a
Speaker 1: professor specializing in financial regulation at Washington University School Law,
Speaker 1: and he said, this sounds like a case of self dealing,
Speaker 1: which is when a person who's supposed to be looking
Speaker 1: out for the interests of investors instead takes advantage of
Speaker 1: his position to benefit him or herself. Apparently, the courts
Speaker 1: are pretty strict about this, Andrew said, this fiduciary duty
Speaker 1: is the bedrack of finance of maintaining the trust between
Speaker 1: companies and their investors. At the time that Francisco didn't
Speaker 1: get the benefit of that expert guidance, but he still
Speaker 1: felt strongly that it was worth talking to the SEC.
Speaker 1: He'd read up on the responsibility that a fund like
Speaker 1: Rothenberg Ventures has two investors who have given it money.
Speaker 1: He felt it could be fraud if Rothenberg wasn't using
Speaker 1: the money in a way that he had told investors
Speaker 1: it would be used. Once he made up his mind,
Speaker 1: Francisco went to the agency's website SEC dot go slash whistleblower,
Speaker 1: where there's a form to submit tips. It's a simple
Speaker 1: questionnaire where you describe the complaint and give the government
Speaker 1: some information about yourself, and there's a way to upload documents.
Speaker 1: In the complaint, he listed examples of how he felt
Speaker 1: funds were being misused. So I submitted the forum. About
Speaker 1: a week later, I got an email from the staff
Speaker 1: attorney there. She asked me to go in. I went
Speaker 1: in for one meeting at their San Francisco office, um
Speaker 1: we talked about the forum. She had a print out
Speaker 1: of the website which had everybody's picture on it, So
Speaker 1: we spent some time talking about each employee, what their
Speaker 1: role was. It was, you know, like a nice office
Speaker 1: building on Montgomery Street. It was just the two of
Speaker 1: us in that conference room for that meeting, and then
Speaker 1: later on in subsequent meetings or more people. Francisco had
Speaker 1: a lot writing on this. He knew that coming forward
Speaker 1: could cost him his job. If the sc C decided
Speaker 1: to do nothing against Rothenburg would still be worth it.
Speaker 1: Did you think that they could? You would be damaging
Speaker 1: your career in your future. Yeah, I knew that to
Speaker 1: some extent. I would be damaging my career. Why do
Speaker 1: you say that. I'm just so sure that it was
Speaker 1: the right thing to do that, you know, Uh, it
Speaker 1: was worth that price that I'd have to pay. After
Speaker 1: that first meeting with the SEC, Francisco went back to
Speaker 1: work like nothing was different. He began to live this
Speaker 1: somewhat double life. While working like normal, He was also
Speaker 1: corresponding with SEC, sharing documents with them. Another information about Rothenberg.
Speaker 1: Getting access to these documents wasn't difficult. Francisco was in
Speaker 1: charge of I T at Rothenberg Ventures, so he had
Speaker 1: access to all kinds of things that others didn't like,
Speaker 1: financial reports, email logs, and investor information. He'd copy them
Speaker 1: onto a thumb drive and then send them to the
Speaker 1: SEC via E Neil later from his house. Did you
Speaker 1: feel paranoying a little bit? Yeah, but I just didn't
Speaker 1: mention it to anybody, and um, I didn't feel that different.
Speaker 1: This double life didn't go on for long. A big
Speaker 1: turning point came just a few days later when he
Speaker 1: told the SEC that Rothenburg Ventures was making some changes
Speaker 1: to its I T systems and some of the email
Speaker 1: accounts were being deleted. This was in July of last year,
Speaker 1: soon after the SEC sent an order to Rothenberg Ventures
Speaker 1: telling them to not delete any records. It was the
Speaker 1: first time that the firm knew it was in the
Speaker 1: SEC's cross hairs. And then Francisco got a message to
Speaker 1: come to a meeting with two senior executives at the firm.
Speaker 1: Mike Rothenberg wasn't there. I was doing my work and
Speaker 1: then one of them sent me a text message and
Speaker 1: he said that he had an I T problem that
Speaker 1: he needed help with, so could I make sure I
Speaker 1: was in the office and minutes and I said yeah, sure,
Speaker 1: And then I think about half an hour went by,
Speaker 1: and then he came by and got me. I was
Speaker 1: sitting sitting out of couch in the main office there,
Speaker 1: and then he took me um into what was really
Speaker 1: Mike's office, but Mike wasn't in the office that day,
Speaker 1: just a small office by itself. Off that man rum
Speaker 1: and what happened? So his first question, UM was he said, UM,
Speaker 1: so we've noticed that you've been doing some government related searches.
Speaker 1: And I didn't say anything to that. And then he
Speaker 1: said did anybody tell you to do that? And I said,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to answer that question. And then he said,
Speaker 1: well you're terminated effective immediately, um, and then long awkward pause,
Speaker 1: and then he said do you have anything to say?
Speaker 1: And I said, um, I have some personal litems to
Speaker 1: my desk actually grab and then he had started me
Speaker 1: to get that stuff and then out of the building.
Speaker 1: How did you feel after that? Where you said, did
Speaker 1: you cry? Were you angry? Whom he wouldn't I was.
Speaker 1: I was angry, like my my heart was founding. Um,
Speaker 1: it's mainly angry. Why were you angry? That was unfair?
Speaker 1: Like you can't terminate it's a blur like that. Um,
Speaker 1: and this was immediately after they got a document particivation
Speaker 1: order from the SEC. That's probably what that's probably that's
Speaker 1: why they're suspicious. Yeah. The SEC has declined to comment
Speaker 1: about the case, but tech Crunch reported Rothenberg Ventures as
Speaker 1: being investigated for wire fraud, bank fraud, and breach of
Speaker 1: fiduciary duty in law suits from investors and employees. It's
Speaker 1: been alleged that Mike Rothenberg used money intended for the
Speaker 1: startups for his own benefit to support his own lifestyle,
Speaker 1: and Francisco learned from emails he had downloaded from the
Speaker 1: firm that at one point Mike Rothenberg was paying himself
Speaker 1: about one million dollars, which is a huge amount for
Speaker 1: a relatively small firm. But Rothenberg was also struggling to
Speaker 1: man it's it all last year, Rothenberg needed to provide
Speaker 1: documents and tax information and some return on investment to investors,
Speaker 1: and according to Francisco and some media reports, the money
Speaker 1: wasn't there. Okay, so this is a little bit complicated,
Speaker 1: but stick with us. The records show that River Studios,
Speaker 1: which if you remember, is one of the virtual reality
Speaker 1: businesses founded by Mike Rothenberg. This started perceived two million
Speaker 1: dollars from an investor. The same day, River Studios transferred
Speaker 1: one point seven million dollars to Mike Rothenberg's personal account.
Speaker 1: Also on that same day, Mike Rothenberg transferred once again
Speaker 1: one point seven million dollars from his own account to
Speaker 1: the Rothenberg Ventures account. According to Francisco, that gave Rothenberg
Speaker 1: Ventures the money to meet the deadline of the other investors.
Speaker 1: By the way, that investor who wired the two million
Speaker 1: has now sued Rothenberg. The lawsuit alleges that Rothenburg co
Speaker 1: mingled the bank accounts of his various entities, essentially treating
Speaker 1: the accounts of those businesses as as personal accounts. By
Speaker 1: the second half of last year, employees quit in mass
Speaker 1: and a class action lawsuit is working its way through
Speaker 1: the courts. It alleges that staffers weren't paid. Another former
Speaker 1: employee has sued for more than a hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 1: that alleges Rothenberg didn't repay for business charges that have
Speaker 1: been put on a credit card. American Express is also
Speaker 1: sued for unpaid charges. I knew Mike Rothenberg a touch
Speaker 1: when I did that story back in so I reached
Speaker 1: out to him about Francisco and to get his side
Speaker 1: of the story. He didn't respond, but a person who
Speaker 1: works for a New York PR firm that specializes in
Speaker 1: crisis management and image rehabilitation reached out. He told me
Speaker 1: my wouldn't be available for an interview given the ongoing
Speaker 1: investigations in lawsuits Adam. Did the spokesman comment at all
Speaker 1: about Francisco or the allegations made by him and in
Speaker 1: the lawsuits. He disputed Francisco's allegation that he was fired
Speaker 1: for speaking with SEC. He said that Francisco had already
Speaker 1: given notice that he was leaving. Francisco says this is
Speaker 1: not true. The spokesman also pointed out that Francisco had
Speaker 1: this run in with authorities for the bitcoin exchange. He
Speaker 1: was implying that undermines his credibility. But what about the
Speaker 1: core allegations about misusing money. The spokesman declined to comment
Speaker 1: about the specifics, but Rothenberg did post a Facebook live
Speaker 1: video earlier this year to explain. So one of the
Speaker 1: things that I just wanna answer head on which I
Speaker 1: which I have done to the press, but they have
Speaker 1: not published it, and I want to be sure I'm
Speaker 1: very clear about this. Is the question I've had is
Speaker 1: you know, have you taken any money and properly and
Speaker 1: answers know? And I've said that before and and uh,
Speaker 1: it continues to that message continues to knock it out
Speaker 1: there as clearly as it should. And another one is
Speaker 1: that have we made any investments without investor permission? We haven't.
Speaker 1: We have not made any investments without investor permission. For
Speaker 1: those kinds of rumors going quickly, there has to be
Speaker 1: very responsible reporting, and um, there has to be fair
Speaker 1: and balance reporting, and there's a very big um, there's
Speaker 1: a very big weight on the shoulders of reporters because
Speaker 1: those um that particular group of people. The video goes on,
Speaker 1: and in it, he spends a lot of time blaming
Speaker 1: the media for bias coverage. Adam, you spoke to a
Speaker 1: few professors to better understand what kind of trouble that
Speaker 1: Mike Rothenberg and his firm might be in what I
Speaker 1: learned is the SEC has been pretty vigilant in protecting whistleblowers,
Speaker 1: including bringing actions against those who retaliate. So that means
Speaker 1: it will be pretty difficult for Rothenberg to come after
Speaker 1: Francisco for going to the SEC. Yeah, and I also
Speaker 1: learned that Rothenberg could be in hot water, especially for
Speaker 1: what appears to be mismanagement of funds. Like we talked
Speaker 1: about earlier, fidiciary duty is the bedrock of finance. It's
Speaker 1: that trust between an investor and a person like Rothenberg
Speaker 1: who's investing that money on their behalf. Do you think
Speaker 1: there's a risk of jail time here? People I spoke
Speaker 1: with didn't think so, but there's definitely a possibility of
Speaker 1: financial penalties. And even beyond that, Mike Rothenberg's reputations and tatters.
Speaker 1: Now that's right, and Rothenberg was this really ambitious venture capitalist,
Speaker 1: but now that the firm is a bare bone staff
Speaker 1: and the reputation has really been hurt. In addition to
Speaker 1: speaking with the SEC, Francisco also began communicating with a
Speaker 1: few journalists about what he'd been finding at Rothenberg, under
Speaker 1: the condition that they wouldn't name him. At that point,
Speaker 1: while the firm's big spending and lavish events were well known,
Speaker 1: the internal turmoil had been largely kept under wraps. But
Speaker 1: in the months after that, several very tough stories came
Speaker 1: out chronicling Rothenberg's questionable management of funds. Francisco says that
Speaker 1: he never regretted the decisions he made, but it did
Speaker 1: take a toll. After he says he was fired, he
Speaker 1: made a last minute decision to join some friends going
Speaker 1: on a seven day hike in Sweden. On the walks,
Speaker 1: he talked about the ordeal with Justin Chen, a friend
Speaker 1: who's also a software engineer. It's sort of that I
Speaker 1: realized that, oh, he wants to leave this city because
Speaker 1: he's worried about this, this place he was working at
Speaker 1: where he was terminated. Uh, I got the sense he
Speaker 1: was worried about it about like Mike Rothenberg coming after
Speaker 1: him personally for a while, like physically. Justin says that
Speaker 1: even though this hasn't been easy for Francisco, he's in
Speaker 1: a much better position than most software engineering jobs are
Speaker 1: in big demand, and he'll likely have an easier time
Speaker 1: finding another job than somebody else might. At Francisco's apartment,
Speaker 1: there's a messy bookshel off with some tea packets, notebooks,
Speaker 1: a few fantasy books, and on the top shelf we
Speaker 1: found one called The Whistleblowers Handbook, A step by step
Speaker 1: guide to doing what's right and protecting yourself. Francisco said
Speaker 1: that he actually found the book only after he had
Speaker 1: gone through this whole experience of being a whistleblower himself,
Speaker 1: and he said he wished that he had read the
Speaker 1: book before approaching the SEC. Now he thinks more people
Speaker 1: will be coming forward in Silicon Valley. He says he
Speaker 1: hopes to inspire others to step up. Part it's a
Speaker 1: critical mass thing. Once you have a few of those
Speaker 1: stories out there, it's easier for more people to do it.
Speaker 1: And then also I think that people are getting more
Speaker 1: fed up with the streatment. Like I feel like Silicon
Speaker 1: Valley is more unethical now than it was a few
Speaker 1: years ago. People are responding to that, and what why
Speaker 1: why do you think that? Um? I feel like just
Speaker 1: because Silting Valley's doing so well, it's attracting more more
Speaker 1: bad people. He wouldn't have come here ten twenty years ago.
Speaker 1: People who were in it for the money, people in
Speaker 1: it for the easy money. Yeah. Francisco is now eight
Speaker 1: and he's working on a startup idea and email security
Speaker 1: program for businesses. He continues to work with the SEC
Speaker 1: and says he's available to be a witness in any
Speaker 1: of the lawsuits pending against Rothenburg. He also says he's
Speaker 1: been applying for some jobs he's invariably asked about his
Speaker 1: experience at Rothenburg. In one instance, he told them about
Speaker 1: his role blowing the whistle, just to see what the
Speaker 1: response was. He said, there was a bit of nervous laughter,
Speaker 1: and then he didn't get a call back. Hey, it's
Speaker 1: me again in the present day. One of the reasons
Speaker 1: we wanted to check in with Francisco is because of
Speaker 1: a trial that just reached a conclusion in November. A
Speaker 1: former employee had sued Rothenberg Ventures and Mike Rothenburg to
Speaker 1: get reimbursed for expenses, and that former employee won the case.
Speaker 1: You hear us talk about that and more here it
Speaker 1: is so we ran our episode about you and May
Speaker 1: how's life been. Um, it's been pretty stable since then.
Speaker 1: I started a job right around the time the podcast aired,
Speaker 1: so mainly I've been concentrating on that. Oh that's great.
Speaker 1: Shortly after that must feel pretty nice. You know. One
Speaker 1: of the worries that you had that you talked about
Speaker 1: with us was that you might not be employable, and
Speaker 1: now that you have this like whistle blower brand on you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and ended up not really being an issue. That's great.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit more about the job. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's um about a fifty person um e commerce company.
Speaker 1: Is that is a bigger company than Brook Ventures? Was
Speaker 1: it is? It's about fifty people? And how does that
Speaker 1: feel to be part of a new organization? It feels
Speaker 1: good to be part of a real organization with proper
Speaker 1: hr and that whole thing exactly. Yeah. Is it it's
Speaker 1: a tech company okay, but not a venture capital firm? No? No? Yeah.
Speaker 1: Was there any blowback after you came went public with us?
Speaker 1: Um a little bit. There was like one weird blog post,
Speaker 1: but otherwise other than that, not really. Yeah. Um, did
Speaker 1: you hear from your friends about that episode? Yeah? A
Speaker 1: lot of people texted me or emailed me. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: I saw the article or listened to the podcast. What
Speaker 1: they say? Um? Some people said like it's great what
Speaker 1: you did. Other people just like, oh that's cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Were you nervous about, you know, using your real name
Speaker 1: in our podcast? Um? A little bit, But I mean
Speaker 1: there isn't really a story if it's all anonymous, right,
Speaker 1: and remind me again what made you want to go public?
Speaker 1: I just felt like my side of the story wasn't
Speaker 1: out there, so I just wanted to put the truth
Speaker 1: out there. Yeah. Are you glad you did it? Yeah?
Speaker 1: When you joined this new company, had they known about
Speaker 1: your history? Yeah? So it was a friend of mine
Speaker 1: who recruited me there, Okay, I've been telling about it
Speaker 1: all along, so like they weren't surprised. Some of the
Speaker 1: people the company were, but not everyone. Did they talk
Speaker 1: to you about it? Yeah? The CEO took me aside
Speaker 1: and he told me that the board had talked about it.
Speaker 1: Really but he told me that they said good things.
Speaker 1: Oh that's great, that's great. That must have That must
Speaker 1: made you feel proud. Yeah, that was a good feeling. Um.
Speaker 1: You know. One of the reasons why I wanted to
Speaker 1: talk to you today is because the first lawsuit against
Speaker 1: Rothenburg Ventures came to a conclusion. So I guess in
Speaker 1: that sense, you know, a former employee who sued Rothenburg
Speaker 1: Ventures one. How do you feel about that? I just
Speaker 1: feel like, you know things are going correctly. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Did it give you a sense of closure in some ways? Um,
Speaker 1: a little bit. Maybe I'm a little more impatient, just
Speaker 1: waiting for the other investigations to wrap up. But other
Speaker 1: and that about where I was back in May. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think back when we talked to you,
Speaker 1: are still weighing potentially taking legal action. Yeah, I still am.
Speaker 1: I'm actually talking to a lawyer in Chicago specializes in
Speaker 1: this kind of thing. So we're still weighing that as
Speaker 1: an option. Got it. And so this would be like
Speaker 1: for wrongful termination, Um, was slower retaliation? Got it. What
Speaker 1: would you say to people who are out there right now,
Speaker 1: who are you know who know that their compet employers
Speaker 1: are doing bad things and are thinking about potentially calling
Speaker 1: out their employers for that behavior. Well, there's really no
Speaker 1: downside to going to the authorities because they keep it confidential. Um.
Speaker 1: But obviously going public to the press is different. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so they have to weigh that. Sometimes it's worth it,
Speaker 1: sometimes it isn't. What made it worth it for you? Um,
Speaker 1: I didn't see a lot of down sides at that
Speaker 1: point to doing it, and I wanted to have my
Speaker 1: side out there. Yeah, And what was what were you
Speaker 1: worried might happen? What? What did you think might be
Speaker 1: like the cons of going public for the you know,
Speaker 1: I might, I might bungle it, and people even if
Speaker 1: I try to get the truth out there, people might
Speaker 1: misinterpret it happens all the time, you know. I'm glad
Speaker 1: to see though, that you didn't leave the tech industry altogether.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of stuck here where my skill set is. Um,
Speaker 1: So what specifically are you doing at this new company.
Speaker 1: I'm a senior software engineer. Okay, so working Ruby unrails mainly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: mainly back end Okay. Yeah, so it really does sound
Speaker 1: like here there's no way of leaving the industry. I'm
Speaker 1: just I'm glad to hear that, because, you know, I
Speaker 1: was worried maybe like you'd had enough with the industry
Speaker 1: in general and tried to leave altogether, like leave the area,
Speaker 1: leave the industry. Yeah. I might leave the area eventually,
Speaker 1: but always be working in tech. I'll stay at this
Speaker 1: company for a while, um, and then probably at some
Speaker 1: point lead to start my own company around what. Um.
Speaker 1: The idea that I have in mind now is actually
Speaker 1: getting public data from the SEC making it easy to search. Oh,
Speaker 1: that's interesting, So it's like kind of related to it
Speaker 1: is Yeah, Yeah, like SEC they have they have the
Speaker 1: site investor dot Gov for looking up UM investment firms,
Speaker 1: and it's really hard to search on it, so UM
Speaker 1: I've done a foil request to get all that data.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna make an easy to use search interface
Speaker 1: so that experience you went through calling out Rothenburg Ventures
Speaker 1: eventually might end up leading to your next company. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and let's it for this week's episode of Decrypted. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening. If you haven't already, please subscribe to our
Speaker 1: show wherever you get your podcasts and let us know
Speaker 1: what you think of the show. You can email us
Speaker 1: at Decrypted at Bloomberg dot net, or you can reach
Speaker 1: out to us on Twitter. I'm at Akio seven, and Adam,
Speaker 1: who reported the original episode, is at Satriano. This original episode,
Speaker 1: as well as updated conversation, was produced by pa Gitkari,
Speaker 1: Magnus Hendrickson, and Liz Smith. We'll see you next week.
Speaker 1: M