WEBVTT - David Aldridge's NBA GOAT Case, Hawks Soaring, Lakers & Pacers Panic 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:09.200 The best part of Wake in Bar, Chicken Lukey's on 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:11.600 your plate, Chicken Nighties. 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:22.040 Good mornings, were and welcome to the Nodunks podcast on 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:26.279 the Athletic Network. It's Thursday, December fifth, twenty twenty four. 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:26.599 I'm J. 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:29.760 Skeet's here in the Classic Factory with no pumpkin pie 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:33.599 in sight, and alongside me as always Tesmelis podcast listeners, 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:36.479 this is for you. Next to him, it's the Bearded One, 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:39.199 a top shot boy, Trey Kirby. Hey, okay yo, and 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:43.000 overyonder making the magic happen. Super producer jd. Hello, there 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:44.680 he is here. We are shout out to everybody joining 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:47.360 us live on YouTube. Hit the light button and subscribe 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:50.680 because we got a special guest joining us this morning. 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:54.800 He's a senior columnist for The Athletic, having worked for 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:58.160 at least thirty years covering the NBA. He's also the 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:02.680 co author of the new NBA book, The Basketball one hundred, 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:06.440 available everywhere. That link is in the show notes. He's 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:08.480 one of our favorites to always have on the show. 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:11.039 It's Hall of Famer David Aldridge. 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:11.440 DA. 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:12.760 What's up, my guy? 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:15.320 Gentlemen, what's happening? Good to see you. 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:17.920 Great to have you on. Really excited to talk a 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:19.960 little bit about this book. And I guess the first 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:22.880 question the Basketball one hundred. It is the definitive ranking 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:26.560 of the one hundred greatest NBA players of all time. 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:30.039 I want to know, like, what was the idea behind 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:32.600 this and the process of spinning this into a book. 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:33.399 Take us through that. 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:37.959 Well, I'm sure you guys remember back in twenty one, 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:40.759 the NBA had the seventy fifth anniversary, right, so they 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:43.680 did their seventy five greatest players. They had everybody come 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:45.680 to Cleveland for All Star and it was awesome, right, 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:52.040 So we did the top seventy five in twenty twenty 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:54.880 one at the Athletic and it was, you know, we 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:57.920 had a new player every day. So it was two 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:00.520 and a half months leading up to All Star weekend 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:04.200 before we're revealed number one. So we did the seventy 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:08.359 five and then I don't know about like eighteen months ago, 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:11.240 our book people came to us and they had done 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:14.399 a Baseball one hundred with Joe pez Nanski that had 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:16.160 done very well. They were in the process of doing 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:19.120 a football one hundred book and they asked us if 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:22.679 we would if we could expand the seventy five into 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:24.880 one hundred and do a book. And so, you know, 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:28.480 Rob Peterson was our point person, great editor that we 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:33.919 work with. John and I kind of shepherded the last 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:36.560 twenty five. We didn't take anybody out of the original 0:02:36.639 --> 0:02:37.640 seventy five. 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:40.760 That we had ranked. 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:44.200 When we did our series, because I just thought it 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:45.480 would be disrespectful to. 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:47.639 Have somebody in the seventy five that wasn't in the hundred. 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:50.520 That didn't make a lot of sense, right, So we 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:53.360 just had to add twenty five. And so over the 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:56.000 process of the last eighteen months, you know, we kind 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:58.760 of decided who the twenty five would be and farmed 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:03.000 out the extra twenty five stories that had to be written. 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:05.760 We had to edit the ones that had already been 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:07.720 written for the seventy five because we had to get 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:11.000 into book length form. I think I think Rob said, 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:15.840 it's two hundred thousand words in the books, so yeah, 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:18.000 there's a lot of words, So it's a big book. 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:20.799 So that's that was the genesis of it. And we've 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:22.360 been working on it for the last year year. 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:22.640 And a half. 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:25.160 Yeah, you wrote the intro here. You did I believe 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:27.760 nine player profiles and then you also have this twenty 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:29.720 four second piece at the end, which is great. Who 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:33.200 was your favorite player to write about of the nine 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:35.680 that you ultimately get in this book, I. 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:38.520 Mean there were the two that jumped to mind were 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:43.680 Doctor j and Wilt just because you know, you have 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:46.880 a you you think, you know, you have a feeling 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:49.640 for who these people are based on watching them over 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:51.360 the years, and then you dig into a little bit 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:54.040 and you interview people that knew them and played with 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:57.320 them and played against them, and you just get a 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:00.760 whole different view of their greatness, right, And so with 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:06.480 Julius it was not just you know, we all loved 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:09.200 his jumping ability and his dunks and all that, but 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:11.760 he you know, you find out he was a great 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:15.360 player period, Like he's a career fifty one percent shooter 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:20.080 from the floor, you know, and was fundamentally sound and 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:24.000 really played the game at a high intelligent level. And 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.880 then was well, it's just how cartoonish's numbers are, right, 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:29.160 I mean, they just don't make any sense. You don't 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:33.200 you look in Basketball Reference, Nobody else in basketball, including 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:37.280 Jordan Lebrono, nobody has numbers like well, they're just cartoonish, 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:37.760 Like they. 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.640 Don't even look real. You know, it's just you know, 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:41.960 fifty and twenty five. 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:44.440 You ever, it's fifty and twenty five like that, How 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:49.760 is that possible? So and then you realize that, you know, 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:54.000 in the context of his inability to beat the Celtics. 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:56.000 You just look at it a little differently because you 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:56.960 just see how great he was. 0:04:57.000 --> 0:04:59.800 So those were those were my two favorites out of 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:01.760 the I mean, I love doing all of them. 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:02.320 You know. 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:04.640 I covered Wes Unseld when he was coaching the Bullets 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:08.120 they were the Bullets then, and Revere Wes as a person. 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:10.240 So I really enjoyed talking to his son about his. 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:14.760 Dad, and so that all of them were wonderful to 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:17.400 do and dig into. You know. I spent an hour 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:19.719 and a half on the phone with Monogenobli to get 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:21.680 his stuff to do his piece, and that was that 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:24.800 was incredible and fun and he was great, and you know, 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:28.360 so having a chance to talk to play the some 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:31.920 of the contemporaries, it was great, man. I mean it's just, 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:34.599 you know, if you love basketball like I do, to 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:37.400 be able to really dig into it and talk to 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:40.359 you know, pop and talk to Tony Parker and people, 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:41.239 it was great. 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:42.000 It was great. 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:43.839 I think a book like this can be so valuable 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.400 because of what you're mentioning. DA like Will has kind 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:51.360 of been reduced in today's basketball fandom to the numbers, right, 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:54.239 doctor J. We know about the swooping layup and the dunks, 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:56.720 but there's more to the story, more to the actual. 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:57.000 Game of it. 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:00.200 You mentioned adding twenty five new players. Here, is there 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.159 somebody you were surprised that made it into the one hundred, 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:06.240 or somebody that was like really really tough to leave 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:08.640 off that you were trying to get in and in 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:09.960 the last twenty five that were added. 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:13.560 You know, it's funny, guys, I, John and I and 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:15.720 Rob we kind of I mean, I wouldn't say we 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:19.160 picked them, but we were kind of again shepherding the 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:24.400 process of adding twenty five. And it wasn't as contentious 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:27.159 I think as you may think, like we had, Like 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:29.679 John felt very strongly. I don't think this is a secret. 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:32.200 John felt very strongly that Jimmy Butler should be in. 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:34.320 And we talked about it for a while. You know, 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:37.599 we we went over it and when John made his points, 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:39.280 you know, we we. 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:42.679 Went okay, yeah, that makes sense. What you're saying makes sense. 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:44.960 I felt very strongly Dave. 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.040 Bing should be in the hundred, you know, because of 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:50.720 his if you look at he was second in the 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:52.919 MVP voting a couple of times. You know, he was 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:57.400 a terrific guard for the Pistons for a decade, and 0:06:57.800 --> 0:06:59.960 because he didn't win a championship or make a final, 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:01.680 a lot of people have forgotten about him. 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:04.680 But you know, when I made my case, they said, yeah, 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:05.760 that's a good point, you know. 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:10.679 So it wasn't that bad there, you know, I would say, 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:12.880 and again, I don't think it's you know, I don't 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:14.560 think it's a secret. I hope it's not. You know, 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:17.520 Klay Thompson is not in the hundred. Was he close? 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:21.760 It was real close, real real close, you know, And 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:23.840 we talked about it, and we hashed it out and we. 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:26.880 You know, and what it came down to is somebody's 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:29.000 got to be one hundred, and somebody is going to 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:30.760 be one on one. It doesn't mean one on one's 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:32.600 a bad player. It means we had to pick somebody 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:33.280 to be a hundred. 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:34.640 So we did. 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:37.840 And that's and and so other than that, there were 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:39.960 a couple other guys, but for the most part. It 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:44.240 wasn't It wasn't that contentious, like we really came to it. 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:47.360 I respect John a great deal for what he's done 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:50.320 in terms of advanced numbers and really thinking about the 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:52.800 game in a different way. And I think he respects 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:57.600 me because I'm old and things, and. 0:07:58.360 --> 0:07:59.840 We both respect Robin great deal. 0:07:59.880 --> 0:08:02.200 So you know, we were able to kind of figure 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:03.440 it out between the three of us. 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:07.040 So this book does go Magic at number five, Bill 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:10.680 Russell number four, Kareem at number three, and then Lebron 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:13.480 at number two, and Michael Jordan at number one. I've 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:16.880 heard you talking a lot about MJ is your goat, DA, 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:20.640 but is there a case to be made for Lebron 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:23.920 or Kareem or somebody else to be the goat? And 0:08:23.960 --> 0:08:26.520 I guess in Lebron's case, does can he still even 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.160 get over the hump? Or is that going to be 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:30.239 to you MJ's fiver. 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:30.680 Yeah. 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:33.640 No, I've said this many times, guy. I mean, Lebron's 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:35.720 got a case. It's not like he doesn't have a case. 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:38.120 He's got a case. Like it's a legit case too. 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:42.120 I mean, the the all time scoring record aside, which 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.800 is its own thing, right and should and has value. 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:48.720 But just his look, he was in was it nine 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:54.440 straight finals? You know, that's that's that's Russell territory, right, Like, 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:58.080 I mean, that doesn't happen all you know that people 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:00.000 don't do that, Like the greatest players in the game, 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:03.520 Hey bird Magic didn't weren't in nine straight finals. Michael 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:07.280 Jordan went in nine straight finals. So he gets he 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:12.000 gets props for that, so and and his passing and 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:13.520 his leadership and all of those things. 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:15.760 So he's got a case. Kareem's got a case. 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:19.400 You know, Like I said this many times, Kareem had 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:23.600 one career three pointer one, So that makes he scored 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:27.000 thirty eight thousand points off of two's basically, and he 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:29.680 scored the majority of those thirty eight thousand points off. 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:30.120 Of one move. 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:33.920 You know, you have one shot, one thing that he 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:37.600 did with the basketball to score and everybody knowed who 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:39.480 was going to do and they couldn't stop it. 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:41.600 You know, So that he's got a case. 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:45.199 He's got six MVPs. Nobody else, including Michael Jordan, has 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:47.960 six m vps and he won five championships. 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:51.400 He's got a case, right, Bill Russell won eleven. He's 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.520 got a case. Okay, like so so, but you have to. 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:57.280 Again, you have to pick somebody, and that's that's where 0:09:57.280 --> 0:10:01.000 we approached it, and in the end, I think we 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:05.040 all kind of agreed again without much rancor, that Michael's 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:05.439 the best. 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:08.559 Yeah. I've heard you say before. If Michael Jordan were 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:10.720 five to six instead of six to six, he'd be 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:14.520 the greatest serial killer in a Yeah, because he's psychotic. 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:16.400 And I love that line and it feels like that 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:18.400 goes with reverence. 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:22.240 I say that because he was. He's crazy in the 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:22.720 good way. 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:26.400 He was so driven to win, and not just to win, 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:30.120 but to dominate, you know, like he wanted to destroy you. 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:33.560 And there's Kobe's the only other person that falls in 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:37.200 that category to me, Like Kobe channeled Michael in a 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:39.600 lot of ways, and that was the biggest way was 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:42.160 that Kobe wanted to embarrass you out there, like he 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:45.360 wanted he didn't. He wanted you to stop competing, you know, 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:50.360 And Michael was like that. And so I don't think 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:52.640 Lebron's like that. I don't think Kareem's like that. And 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.400 it doesn't make them not great players. There are great players. 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:58.760 But what separates Jordan to me from the rest is 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:02.880 that will. Yeah, you know that that desire to dominate 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:07.040 and that desire to bury people that you know that 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:10.559 we're trying to compete and win championships against him, and 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:12.880 again he beat everybody. 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:15.600 Guys like he's you know, we beat them all. 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:19.440 You know, he'd beat Patrick Ewing, he'd beat Caarmelone, he'd 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:21.920 be John Stockton, he'd be you know, all the great 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:24.920 players of Charles Barkley, beat him all, all of them. 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:28.120 You know, he eventually beat Isaiah Thomas, who had beaten him. 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:31.080 To be fair and honest to Isaiah the first few 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:34.320 years that they competed. But at the end, Mike, once 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:37.320 Michael started winning, once they won one, they never were 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:38.280 beaten by anybody. 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:39.960 And that's all I can go by. 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:40.640 DA. 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.120 What do you make of Lebron's slow start to the season. 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:45.240 It kind of feels like maybe the first time people 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:48.320 are even considering that Father time might be catching up here. 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:52.920 I mean I don't think I Yes, of course Father 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:54.640 times catching up with him, but that's not. 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:57.079 What I see. I mean, is he slower? Is he 0:11:57.200 --> 0:11:57.920 less efficient? 0:11:58.040 --> 0:11:59.959 Yes, of course he is, but that doesn't mean he 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.520 still not a really effective player. I just don't you know, 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:07.800 they just don't have enough around him. The three through 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:12.400 six isn't getting the job done. And AD's not shooting 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:14.400 the ball well right now, and so when AD's off 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:17.040 and they're running a lot of stuff through Ad, they struggle, 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:17.400 you know. 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:19.640 And so he'll play better, he's a great player, he'll 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:20.199 play better. 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:24.840 But when AD's not having a good night and needs 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:27.000 somebody to pick him up, those guys aren't picking them 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:31.319 up nearly well enough. And that's you know, that doesn't 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:34.480 mean they can't. That doesn't mean that Reeves can't, that 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:38.480 doesn't mean that Dalton Connect can't. But they haven't done 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:43.200 it enough or consistently enough, and so you know, you know, 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:45.400 they're in a bad stretch right now. Is it four 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:48.040 games they lost by twenty five last week last week 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:50.480 or so? I mean, it's a bad stretch. But you 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:52.640 guys know this. Every team goes through one of these 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:56.960 a year where you just something's funky, whether it's lineups 0:12:57.040 --> 0:12:59.679 or somebody's just not carrying their weight or whatever it is. 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:01.160 Teams go through this. 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:05.000 I think the Lakers will straighten themselves out, but I 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.920 don't think they're like a championship contender with the team 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:09.960 that they have just because you know, you know, when 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:13.000 you get to the playoffs, teams take stuff away and 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:15.800 they make other people beat them, other than the best players. 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:19.240 And I need to see those guys play at that 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:22.199 level where you can say, all right, if they double 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:24.320 team AD and we kicked the ball week's side, that 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:25.160 guy's burying it. 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:26.839 He's going six to eight on threes and we'll go 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:28.920 win the game. And I haven't seen that yet. 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:31.480 Yeah. Back to the book here and actually talking about 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:34.360 current players. Lebron is the only player in the book 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.960 currently playing that's in the top ten obviously number two. 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:42.199 Is there any of the other current I think eighteen 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:45.880 players in the book that you think are capable of 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:48.520 like getting into the top ten all time? So that 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:51.959 means probably bumping out a Kobe or a Larry Bird 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:54.320 or something like that. Who has the best chance you 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:55.160 think of current players? 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:57.920 Well, look, I think you know Steph's right right right there. 0:13:57.960 --> 0:13:59.520 He's at twelve I think in the book. 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:01.920 So I mean, you know, if they went on on 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.880 some kind of amazing run and got back to another finals, 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:07.840 and even if they don't, I mean you can make 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:11.160 a case for Steph certainly because of his impact on 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:15.320 the game. He changed basketball at all levels to the 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:19.680 shooting like the game's different after he played than it 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:24.920 was before, where the geometry of the floor has changed 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:28.120 forever because of Steph Curry, because of his ability to 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:31.160 shoot not just threes, but shoot thirty footers with ease 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:34.440 and make it impossible for defenses to be able to 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:37.600 guard in that kind of space. You just can't get 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:41.960 there where he's at. And now other players have emulated that, 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:43.680 and now there's a lot of players who can make 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.480 those threes. So you can make a case for him. 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.080 You can make a case for Jokic. I mean, if 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:52.080 they you know they have it's going to be I 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:52.880 think hard. 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:54.960 For them to make a finals again with the current 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:55.560 team that they have. 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:58.360 But if they were to add another piece or two 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:01.040 and get back to that form and he won another 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:04.760 championship or two, I mean he's he's certainly I think 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:08.640 the leader right now for MVP, right, and so that's. 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:10.400 Four if he wins again. 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:12.920 You know, when you went for MVPs, you got a 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:16.240 case for top you know, greatest players of all time, right, 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.680 So he's in there. Maybe Luca, you know, Luca could 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:22.920 certainly make a movement in that direction before it's all 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:25.640 said and done. But I would I would say, right now, 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:28.040 those three of the ones that jump to mine. 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:32.160 You mentioned the eighteen active players that we're talking about here. 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:34.920 Charles Barkley wrote the forward to this BOK and he 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:38.880 mentioned himself there are eighteen active players. He goes on 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:43.480 about his Genobilee Classic Genobilee line. It wouldn't be we 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:46.080 wouldn't be doing our job as a sports podcast unless 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:49.040 we made fun of Charles Barkley's. My question is, did 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:50.440 Charles actually read this book? 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:51.040 You think? 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:56.280 Excellent question. I hope they ask him that on inside. 0:15:57.640 --> 0:15:59.560 He did write it though, because you know, I know 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:02.160 because I asked him to and he was very gracious 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.680 and did it and we were able to get his 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:08.440 words in it. I hope they you know, I would 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:10.520 love for them to plug the book on inside. 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:12.040 Yeah, I mean right. 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:15.360 But did he read all of it? 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:19.320 I sincerely doubt head All probably refuses to read the 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:19.960 Shack chapter. 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:21.720 He's a skimmer. 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:25.520 I'm guessing he literally wrote that I didn't read the 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:26.040 Shack chapter. 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:27.680 Uh D. 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:30.080 Before we let you go, I'm curious who the who 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:33.240 is the most underrated player in history to you and 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:34.320 whether they're in the book or not. 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:38.960 Yeah, wow, that's it. I mean, that's a really good 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:42.600 and tough question. The most underrated player in league history? 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:46.200 I mean, you know, I think I always say Isiah 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:49.680 doesn't get his due because he got kind of overshit. 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:50.480 He was in the era. 0:16:51.120 --> 0:16:54.000 He was a winner in an era of winners and 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:55.800 kind of ultimate winners, you know, like. 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:56.640 Bird and Magic. 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.520 They all won more, They won more championships, Michael won 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:03.880 more champion but Isaiah being a point guard winning two 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:08.440 championships and being leading the Pistons for you know, twelve 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:14.359 years of excellence basically is underrated, I think. But you know, 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:16.320 I also think of it like Brick Barry was a 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:20.040 great player. Guys, like it was great. He was a 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:23.800 terrific player for a long time and came up you know. 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:26.800 Yeah, it's it's interesting. 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:29.320 If he had played in the ABA, he might have 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:34.119 put up better numbers and maybe be more highly regarded. 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:37.840 But the fact that he kind of decided not he 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:39.119 I think he only played one year in. 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:41.280 The ABA and then went back went to the NBA. 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:43.359 But he could have put up. 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:46.080 Monster numbers in the ABA with his ability to score. 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:50.320 So that's another kind of guy. You know, I did 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:52.560 the chapter I did the piece of Moses Malone, and 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:58.000 Moses was, you know, very unsexy. He just went up 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:02.120 and got rebounds and drew. And people don't think that 0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:04.480 that's exciting. I get it, I get it, I understand. 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:06.880 But you know, he was really effective at it, won 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:10.800 three MVPs and was a great, great leader on all 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:13.200 the teams he was on. So players like that I 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.320 always think are kind of underrated just because they're they're 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:18.480 not remembered as much. 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:22.200 And then you know, I would end that with Oscar Robertson, 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:24.679 you know, like I was. 0:18:25.040 --> 0:18:27.720 I was honored to speak with Oscar on the phone 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:31.520 for his for a piece I did on him at 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:33.879 All Star last year because it was in Indianapolis and 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:37.320 he's from Indianapolis. And you just, again, you talk to 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:39.199 players who played against them and they just go, you 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:40.679 guys don't understand how great he was. 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:41.399 You just don't know. 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:45.280 And so players like that that are kind of forgotten 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:47.000 in this era. 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.159 I always like to try to resurrect and kind of 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:50.320 give them their flowers. 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:52.960 That's fantastic. Well, this book is awesome. I'm making my 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:55.439 way through it. I've read all your chapters, DA, but 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:57.480 I got a lot of guys to go, but really 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:00.760 highly recommend again for any basketball in your life for 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:03.199 the holiday season. I would pick this up because, like 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:05.480 you move quickly. It is a chunky book. There's a 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:08.400